The Stand Still, Stay Silent Fan-Forum

Worlds and Stories => Worlds & Stories Discussion Board => Topic started by: thorny on August 10, 2021, 10:32:27 PM

Title: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 10, 2021, 10:32:27 PM
EDITED by Jitter to add opening for the thread

This is discussion about the webcomic Barbarous by Ananth Hirsh and Yuko Ota, available at

http://www.johnnywander.com/

Barbarous page 1: http://www.johnnywander.com/comic/barbarous-chapter-1

The comic is ongoing (early chapter 6) at the time of opening this thread.

Barbarous was introduced by SkyWhalePod as the Comic of the Month for August 2021. You can see their introduction here: https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=1237.15

THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS ON BARBAROUS UP TO CURRENT LATEST PAGE

From the line downwards, thorny's original post.


OK, spoilers for Barbarous through, and mostly about, Chapter 5:


Spoiler: show
First of all, my head is playing tricks on me. I thought we'd seen Hale interacting with Percy somewhere earlier in the comic; but I can't find him before the tail end of book 4, and Percy says on page 3 of chapter 5 that she doesn't know him. So I guess not.

Second, and main point: I think this is a really good treatment of the Shadow Self. And they get it right: "We'll never be rid of one another [ . . . ] don't be scared. I'll find us something new to eat."

And then a couple of more minor: I thought at first that Hale had made Leeds; because on p 34 of chapter 4, he says he's working on a new kind of familiar. But on page 43 of chapter 5, Leeds says that Ruby made him.

And Percy seems to have come out of this with more hair than either of her had going in. Is the hair length related to the strength of her magic? But it can't be; because Percy when she can't do magic has longer hair than Chiaki who can. -- maybe it's related to her degree of wholeness? Or maybe she just wanted to grow her hair, and is now powerful enough to do that.

-- oh yeah, and a technical question. At the end of some of the chapters, if I kept clicking next I found myself shifted into This Is What You Wanted. I'd go back to the archive pages and put myself back into Barbarous; but was I supposed to read the two comics in an alternating fashion instead? (I haven't read This Is What You Wanted yet, except for a couple of pages.)
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 11, 2021, 12:41:04 PM
Spoilers on Barbarous up to Chapter 5 (and reply to thorny)

Spoiler: show


Hale - it seems they did mingle among the same students, but Percy never noticed him.

I really like the “writ wizards” (although I can understand Hale’s frustration). This is probably the first time besides Pratchett there is D&D type of magic, i.e. must be painstakingly prepared and is lost in casting. What’s more, it even makes sense in the context of what Percy mentions about misaligned planes often being the cause for haunting.

Leeds - I was sort of thinking he could Minotaur (as in the Minotaur), mostly because of page 25 of chapter 4, but the cottage in snow doesn’t really add up. I think we can trust that Leeds doesn’t lie? Everyone else probably does.

Little girl Percy - what do you make of page 8 of chapter 5? Isn’t that a version of herself Percy is drawing, getting attacked by Calbraith?

Percy’s hair - she gets the long hair from the blue version - when Leeds comforts/saves/??? her the extra arms are gone but the hair remains. Perhaps it signifies her acceptance of that part of her self - indeed, her becoming more whole like you suggested.

Funny, in SSSS I love the way worldbuilding is presented in the info pages, and I’m sad there currently don’t seem to be more forthcoming. But in Barbarous, I like the way things are just left completely unexplained and you have to work out what is this then.


Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 11, 2021, 05:40:02 PM
Spoilers on Barbarous up to Chapter 5 (and reply to thorny)

Spoiler: show


Hale - it seems they did mingle among the same students, but Percy never noticed him.

[ . . . ]

Leeds - I was sort of thinking he could Minotaur (as in the Minotaur), mostly because of page 25 of chapter 4, but the cottage in snow doesn’t really add up. I think we can trust that Leeds doesn’t lie? Everyone else probably does.

[ . . . ]

Little girl Percy - what do you make of page 8 of chapter 5? Isn’t that a version of herself Percy is drawing, getting attacked by Calbraith?



Spoiler: show
1)   Yes, that I saw; but what I thought I remembered was their interacting somewhere outside the school during the earlier part of the story.

2)   Hmmm. I wonder whether Leeds can lie. Maybe not?

But what if somebody really wants him to? -- OK, let's not try to break Leeds. I like Leeds.

3)   Wow. I didn't catch that. Sure looks like it now that you point it out -- and the child-Percy's on Calbraith's side!
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: catbirds on August 12, 2021, 02:59:21 AM
Okay, I caught up and read the entire thing this evening. So here we go, spoilers until the end of chapter 5 here too

Spoiler: show

Re: confusion about events - I've been finding that a lot of non-ssss stories are far more sparing on how much is drawn. It's pretty smart to do that, but it can lead to readers not knowing how things happened and needing to backtrack a bit. Not sure if that's the actual problem, but it's a thing that happens with me so in my opinion that might be it.

Regarding Hale - he seems to be researching how to make familiars and doesn't actually know how to make a familiar like Leeds. I think he was a bit of an average kid at school but wanted to be talented by their standards or something like that. And by "their standards" I mean the whole writ vs gilded wizard thing. In the end, though, it seems like you still have to know spells and practice magic a lot to be a gilded wizard, as it's pretty clear that Percy does mess up a spell in chapter 4 and something happened along the way to cause that? Either way, I'm really looking forward to what the next season will be like!

The entire sequence where Hale sent them to some dream world - yeah, I agree, thorny, that was actually my favourite bit. It kind of seemed like both Leeds and Percy were helping Each Other at the very end, when she weaves the spell and Leeds is helping her with the bundle of sticks and all that. This story does centre around their bond a lot, so that's how I interpreted it. Also, I love the way Percy does magic, with her threads and pins and patterns, and the way her past/shadow self could form it into a sword... I'm pretty sure she was referred to as Chiaki, but yeah, I think it was a good way to show how Chiaki clearly took after Calbraith and became a ruthless, albeit powerful, wizard. I'm interested in if they'll explore that link in the future, though that sequence might be done and dusted.

About characters - Hmmm.... Percy and Leeds were definitely great and well-developed together, but I felt like the side characters weren't really given much depth... I'm not really sure if this is an unfair criticism or if I just have a very personal distaste for underdeveloped side characters, and I might've tuned out from the side/bonus stories, so maybe this criticism isn't much. But also it's neat that Percy had a lot of experiences probably specific to mixed Japanese people. It's always nice to see experiences specific to a group of people appearing in a story, though sometimes I wish that there were a story that explored this kind of thing in a lot more depth.

Miscellaneous commentary - The vague mentions of an educational institution that's actually a central part of the plot is really interesting to me because of the amount of school-centred stories that we get. I think that's partially because of the structure that makes those stories very conducive to storytelling, so reading a story about a dropout and how her time at school follows her around despite it all is a nice change in perspective. I also feel like I relate to some of her experiences a bit too much... not literally, obviously. Anyway, I hope they go into more detail about what it's like to be "out of school" in this context and I hope that I can still relate to how it's presented, because this story resembles some process of reconciling your shortcomings in school and accepting you can still be a person in spite of that.

Side note - I found it kind of confusing to just not have one long sequence of pages that were storytelling because halfway through, I'd get confused about whether I was reading a side story or a page of the main story. It's not a big deal, though, and doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the story at all. But it's also interesting because seeing various branches of the story or peeks into the authors'/characters' lives outside of the main plot isn't really something we got much in SSSS, unless you saw the bonus comics in the printed books (which I have not lol).

Other side note - the website's crow mascot is cute, but a little spooky because of the mouth in the abdomen :>
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 12, 2021, 10:20:02 AM
Catbirds, the crow mascot (Maw) appears in Barbarous too! Did you notice?
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Raaffiie on August 12, 2021, 11:06:19 AM
All right, I'm all caught up! Great artstyle and I like the comedic timing in the panel layout. It's quick, though. This might just be because I'm mostly used to reading webcomics along the lines of SSSS or Wilde Life, but it took me some time to adjust to the speed at which events happen from panel to panel. I'm assuming it's like Scott Pilgrim in that sense? I only know of the series by name and reputation but I get the impression that that comic moves really quickly from moment to moment as well.

I like the interactions between the two leads and I'm fond of the energetic trio, even though I get tired just looking at them. As an anime fan I'm also happy to see some of those influences making their way into the comic. I'm going to join in with being confused by chapter 5, though, not really because of the dreamlike sequence itself, but the intro had me checking multiple times if there were some pages that I missed. I do like the idea of the different planes of existence which seems to be represented by the loup, gives me some Wheel of Time vibes. I think I'll keep an eye on this one.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Opaque on August 12, 2021, 12:23:16 PM
I thought I had missed some pages too. Glad others feel the same. The whole Academy situation is interesting and I'm looking forward to what more develops around it. Leeds better stay away from that crazy Hale kid. He seemed a tad unhinged.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 12, 2021, 12:58:22 PM
Not sure Hale will be bothering anyone anymore, like ever. Cee says he’s been dealt with.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 12, 2021, 02:33:31 PM
I didn't know I could start a thread without starting a thread! Thanks, Jitter!   ;D

-- more later, I expect, busy right now --
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 14, 2021, 04:11:44 PM
Oh, Hale’s not gone. Cee is hard to make out!

I know we saw the thing that is lying on the floor somewhere, or one much like it, but I can’t find it! Where is it?
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 14, 2021, 05:38:57 PM
It looks to me like the dummy (I hope it's a dummy!) that was being sliced up in the two pages just previous.

But I thought that dummy reminded me of something also, and I'm not sure what.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 14, 2021, 05:54:55 PM
Oh yes, something the Cameron person slices up, because reasons?

Is Cameron Percy’s ex from Academy, whose face we don’t see?
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 14, 2021, 06:06:54 PM
Something else entirely:

I missed this, the first time through. Look at chapter 5, page 32. The page after the line about 'you don't have enough hands.' Look at the next-to-last panel: see Chiaki's coat and hands?

Then the first panel of page 33: see Chiaki's literal shadow?

And then the hands come up to hold her --

I think at the point of that first panel, with Percy weakened and apparently losing, Percy's become the shadow self, and Chiaki is claiming the position of the reality. But the shadow's where the strength is; and it's Percy who realizes that the two of them have to remain one person, and so it's Percy who can hold and incorporate Chiaki.

This is a really good Shadow Self story.

Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: catbirds on August 15, 2021, 12:15:50 AM
I think at the point of that first panel, with Percy weakened and apparently losing, Percy's become the shadow self, and Chiaki is claiming the position of the reality. But the shadow's where the strength is; and it's Percy who realizes that the two of them have to remain one person, and so it's Percy who can hold and incorporate Chiaki.

This is a really good Shadow Self story.

Oooh, yeah, going back, I see it now! The slight smile that Chiaki gives in the last panel she's present for tells you everything, though I didn't follow it in the first read-through. Also, the simple and organic art style really was perfect for this scene... wow... It kind of looks like becoming "whole" again helped Percy regain the confidence to do magic.

Catbirds, the crow mascot (Maw) appears in Barbarous too! Did you notice?

Oh no, I didn't! Ummm,,, time to search through the entire comic I guess?
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 15, 2021, 06:12:31 AM
Catbirds, It’s in two places (at least). I could list them here, but what would be the fun in that?  :V :V :V

Just let me know if you want me to  :reynir:
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 18, 2021, 11:52:50 AM
Whoopsie back to the question of Hale’s continued survival 😨
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Opaque on August 18, 2021, 07:15:07 PM
Haha! Called it. I knew Hale will live on to do more crazy shenanigans. He's definitely going to cause more mischief for poor Leeds. And Percy too.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 19, 2021, 04:04:23 AM
Recalling the Girl with a skeleton hand short story about the ghost mice, Hale seems to be in a bit of tight spot just now.

Although Calbraith seemed to take Cecilia’s announcement of Hale already having been dealt with no alarm. We don’t know much about the Pillars, but surely they would at least show some interest, if a student of their academy was presumed dead? Even a delinquent student? Right? So Calbraith perhaps knows a tiny bit more about Cecilia and her ways than the readers. That, or the world is pretty bleak in this onw.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 19, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
OK, who's this kid with the sword?

Is he the same blond with the sword as in the first couple of pages of this book? Artwork aside, I'm partly faceblind, and not good at identifying people in or out of comics. The one in the most recent page looks a lot younger to me.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 19, 2021, 03:18:44 PM
I think the one in the beginning is Pillar Calbraith? So this (Cameron?) is someone else. He is the one getting a Bind with a familiar, I think the dog-like one, in the beginning of this chapter. I wonder if he’s Perrcy’s ex from the Academy, we don’t see his (the ex’s) face or hair, but body type seems similar.

As an asside, does Cecilia (Celia? I always forget) call Leeds and Percy her toys?
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 19, 2021, 08:59:20 PM
I'm pretty sure that's Cameron with the sword cutting up the whatever-that-was earlier in this book; he's got the familiar with him that Cameron was given just before that.

But the boy in the most recent panel looks like somebody else to me; and looks considerably younger than Cameron does. Maybe that's just me, though.

-- Cecilia calls them her people right before that. She might just be using a figure of speech; or she might actually be thinking of them as her toys; hard to tell. But she's at least distinguishing "people" from "artifact." Whether they can really trust her I don't know; I'm dubious about what she's up to.

As an aside of my own: I wonder whether Cameron's familiar Fortuna is really as blank in mind as of eyes.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 20, 2021, 01:58:23 AM
He’s got the same clothes and hair - I’m sure it’s Cameron. There are some other occasions in the comic where expressions of emotion are drawn in a different chibi-like style (in this and other comics, I found it very alienating at first but I’m used to it now).

Fortuna is horrifying! I know it’s not a dog, but a thing in the shape of dog, but the blank eyes 😢 It’s clearly alert, but especially the final panel on p 3/6 seems to indicate more than that. What if they are sentient, just unable to communicate the fact in any way? I shudder to think of an existence like that.

Also, the woman-shaped familiar… doesn’t feel right at all. I’m not sure the wizards in this world are a benevolent elite at all.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 24, 2021, 04:27:01 PM
More Fortuna not looking exactly empty 😨
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 24, 2021, 06:16:49 PM
Okay, apparently that is Cameron. But did he chase Cecilia off, or was she leaving anyway? And who's busted, Hale? Must be, if Cameron didn't see anybody else to say that to; and Hale seems to be being taken off in custody -- but if Cameron's supposed to be the one who's busting Hale, how are they explaining Hale being tied to the chair when Cameron gets there?

And yes to Fortuna not looking exactly empty.

And yes, to not being at all certain the Academy wizards are benevolent. It looks kind of mixed. On the one hand, they're right, people shouldn't be making conscious creatures who can be commanded. On the other, if it happens anyway, their response is to destroy them?
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 27, 2021, 07:20:58 AM
I didn't really get a very favorable impression of Cameron to begin with, but this settles it. I don't like Cameron.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 27, 2021, 09:25:15 AM
Me neither. But I do wonder what he's been handed.

I also wonder whether it's what he's been handed that's the test, or whether it isn't actually anything that matters and they just want to find out whether he's discreet about it.

And is he immediately calling somebody up to grumble about it? Or is he either not calling anybody, or calling about something else entirely and possibly innocuous?
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 27, 2021, 11:48:15 AM
In either case, he's being a brat. Room for character development right there!
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on September 29, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
Hey, some interesting information about the magic system. AND Leeds. Not bad!
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on September 29, 2021, 07:56:20 PM
Anybody else think Leeds looks sort of threatening in that last panel?
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 07, 2021, 10:07:08 PM
Now that's interesting. I'd been thinking of Leeds as knowing what he wants, but as having his wants very often overriden by the desires of whoever's closest. But this makes it seem as if he has trouble telling what he wants himself from what those around him want; or at least, that's what his creator (if that's who that is) thinks is going on. I'd think that would give a very disturbed sense of self.

But then, we ourselves sometimes have trouble telling what we want, or what we would want if we hadn't been taught otherwise, from what we've been taught that we ought to want --
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: catbirds on October 08, 2021, 12:01:25 AM
Yeah, I agree! We rarely get to see magical beings' internal struggles in media, so I really like that we get a peek into his inner turmoil and it's easy to empathize with him. I hope this chapter focuses on him more.

And on another note, I still love how the page composition in recent pages have been relatively simple, yet perfect at getting the mood and emotion of a scene across. This is maybe the fourth webcomic I've ever read, and probably my favourite in terms of page composition.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on October 19, 2021, 05:10:04 PM
Ahahaa, boob buddies  ;D

Leeds is going to go absolutely bonkers to not know how Percy is feeling, isn’t he? What a learning experience for him!
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 19, 2021, 08:52:07 PM
That's a really good point. It's probably going to be a mixture of joy at not being controlled, but with also suddenly missing a sense altogether, at least in relation to Percy -- as if you suddenly couldn't look at your friend and see where they were.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 04, 2021, 10:46:50 PM
aaaand I just checked the blog page and it says

Quote
BARBAROUS CHAPTER 6 IS OVER!

Thank you SO much for reading! We left it on a bit of a cliffhanger lol... what can I say, we like to keep it spicy lmao

-- did they leave it there temporarily, or is that a statement that the comic's over, at least for the indefinite future?

This is frustrating. That's more than "a bit" of a cliffhanger.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 05, 2021, 02:24:24 AM
I think it’s essentially a chapter break, but it’s irritating that they don’t say how long. I guess we should check back every now and then. There were breaks between the previous chapters too.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 11, 2021, 12:47:27 PM
Barbarous is still in break, but this Pixels of You thing took an interesting turn! Which is also kind of exasperating because this says ‘preview’ so I’m expecting it to stop any time.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: catbirds on December 11, 2021, 01:32:29 PM
Yeah, Pixels of You is going to be sold as a complete published comic. The artists probably do a lot of work on the side. This (http://johnnywander.com/pixels) is the page that says it's coming out next February, so in fact it's mostly complete, probably? The way they upload these pages into the same flow of pages as Barbarous is kind of weird and confusing, though.

I'm kind of hoping there's going to be a romance between the two photographers. Hopefully.

Aaaah, but anyway, it'll be fine, Barbarous will probably be back once they finish work on that. They definitely could be better at disclosing this information to the audience, but also maybe I'm just too used to the SSSS Ultra-Regular Update Schedule.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 11, 2021, 06:27:54 PM
It's interesting; I really like Barbarous but I really cannot get into Pixels.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: catbirds on December 11, 2021, 09:54:46 PM
It's interesting; I really like Barbarous but I really cannot get into Pixels.

That's pretty much a given. It's totally different in nature! Barbarous is mostly focused on magic systems and the setting and characters' personal/emotional struggles are things more of us can probably understand, if you're older than, I dunno, 17? Pixels is a little in the future, with robot guys and a generally urban (metropolitan?) feeling. And I don't know how many of us are gallery photographers or anything like that.

Honestly, I don't really like stories with that kind of atmosphere. But the art style's nice and if there's an f/f pairing that I find interesting, I'd make an exception. Considering the most recent page though, I probably shouldn't get my hopes up too much :P
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: catbirds on December 18, 2021, 04:28:11 AM
Oh, LOL, I mistook Fawn's mother to be her partner :P

So it looks like it's an android family? Is Fawn also an android, or an adopted human?

Also, I'm starting to get a clearer and clearer image of what Fawn and Indira were looking at.

Still haven't found any news on when Barbarous is coming back, though ;;
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 18, 2021, 05:36:25 AM
Catbirds, I did too :) I don’t think it was coincidence either. Being an android (extremely pale skintone would be explained) or in any case with an android background does explain her discomfort at the exhibition piece featuring androids, presumably a photograph taken by a human.
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: catbirds on December 29, 2021, 01:39:26 AM
Looks like there's a slightly early new year's message! What an adorable drawing.

Catbirds, I did too :) I don’t think it was coincidence either. Being an android (extremely pale skintone would be explained) or in any case with an android background does explain her discomfort at the exhibition piece featuring androids, presumably a photograph taken by a human.

Oh yeah, I think that's what her mom means by "natural chassis"? That's a very sweet mother-daughter moment and I hope both parents get to interact soon. They sound very caring :'D

Also, I didn't notice her round wrist joints earlier. Or maybe it looked like a stylistic choice, idk!
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 29, 2021, 09:57:41 AM
I hadn’t read that page before now. Yea, that’s what it obviously means.

I also didn’t notice the joints, or didn’t pay any attention, even when I was already thinking she may be an android! Not before you pointed it out. And yet it’s very obvious on many pages (not all, on p 6 it’s not showing at all) when you are paying attention. Goes to show how we see what we expect to see!
Title: Re: Barbarous (netcomic) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 29, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Looks like there's a slightly early new year's message! What an adorable drawing.

Thanks for calling attention to that! I had stopped checking.

Hope it means that Barbarous will be back fairly soon.