Character Development: Lalli

[Solovei]

I think we need to step back a bit from labels like "autistic" and examine what is going on in Lalli's life, right now. He's in a foreign country, surrounded by strangers who speak languages he can't understand. There is only one person he knows, his cousin, and she keeps talking to other people most of the time. Thus, the verbal context for a lot of what's going on is entirely absent for him. It's one thing if someone pats you on the back and you know why they're doing it because they said something that would make such an action necessary, but it's quite another when someone does it and you have no idea why. It's random and confusing and probably kind of irritating.

So, I think it's rather unfair to assign wide-sweeping generalizations based on what is a relatively out-of-the-ordinary situation for him?

[Piney]

I think we need to step back a bit from labels like "autistic" and examine what is going on in Lalli's life, right now. He's in a foreign country, surrounded by strangers who speak languages he can't understand. There is only one person he knows, his cousin, and she keeps talking to other people most of the time. Thus, the verbal context for a lot of what's going on is entirely absent for him. It's one thing if someone pats you on the back and you know why they're doing it because they said something that would make such an action necessary, but it's quite another when someone does it and you have no idea why. It's random and confusing and probably kind of irritating.

So, I think it's rather unfair to assign wide-sweeping generalizations based on what is a relatively out-of-the-ordinary situation for him?

This. This was my understanding too. I don't really think any of the characters, really, could be labeled in such a way because it's all situational. (And of course, yes, especially Lalli) Like, I understand how "very awkward introvert" could be read autistic, but his really awkward introvertedness is likely exaggerated because of all the new experiences he's going through.

[SeaAngel]

I don't completely agree with either point here (this one or Paul Ferris's), and I may be misunderstanding, but I think that if a child is diagnosed with autism and they aren't actually autistic, they'll still be raised by parents who now believe their child is autistic, and the child is likely to believe it themselves, until, or if ever, they know better. So that could probably shape the child's behavior in some part. And also, I have to say even if it goes off topic, that homosexuality is a completely different situation than autism. Like, you can't dispute whether your child is gay or not, and they're not going to believe they're gay because their parents expect them to be and treat them like they are. (Which might be what you were trying to say...?) But I feel like autism would be a different matter because it's less clearly defined.

It would certainly shape the child's behavior, but given that autistic children are usually encouraged to be """normal""" I think any socialization and improvment they do would be super encouraged. Worst case scenario the child becomes lazy: "I don't have to try to behave civilly because everyone expects me not to".
Yeah, homosexuality is a completely different story. However, until recently, (and where I live, this belief still persists quite a lot) it was believed that homosexuality was "a choice". That your child decided to behave like this (which was insane because being homo wasn't popular at all). I feel autism is the same: either you have it, or you don't. Sure you can have varying types of autism, display different characteristcs, but I find it hard to believe that you can fake or convince yourself that you don't understand what a smile means or how a conversation works.

[SeaAngel]

I think we need to step back a bit from labels like "autistic" and examine what is going on in Lalli's life, right now.

You don't have to examine what is happening right now, which is indeed outside of his everyday life, but what was happening while he was home.

He is incapable of understanding jokes (or only the jokes Tuuri says), to understand Onni's sarcasm. He did not react when hugged by Onni (neither all the times he has been hugged by Tuuri).
This implies not simply introversion, but general difficulty to recognise social cues.
In fact, we have seen him recognize another person's emotion only when their reactions were extreme. Like Tuuri hanging from the rails on the boat because there wasn't any view, Emil trembling from head to toe, and Emil lying down on the library floor.
I'll add that he did not realize that Tuuri didn't really intend to leave him alone in the train station, and usually only small children would believe such a trick.

(Also: a commenter said that each time when Lalli replied "ok" without understanding what was going on, it was probably because he has been taught that "it is appropriate to respond when talked to", and that time he raised his hand to ask a question it was most probably because he wasn't able to tell when it's ok to interrupt and when it wasn't, and he was taught to raise his hand to be polite.)
All the above signify that he has a hard time to recognize social cues. This is a characteristic of either REALLY socially inexperienced people, or autistic people, not introverts. I really don't see why he should be more inexperienced than Tuuri- they grew up in the same environment. If he was an introvert, then he would be used to HER and Onni's company, and would learn to socialize.

Another thing: he tends to do whatever is told instead of making decisions of his own. A commenter with autism said that it is much easier for her to be led in stead of making ANY kind of simple decisions. Lalli quit his job and has been doing exactly what he's told to ever since.

[FinnishViking]

Really whenever Lalli is called touch sensitive and things like that i feel there is a small cultural disconnect there.

In finland people don't really touch each other like that, people don't get physical with each other unless they know each other well and seeing Lalli being the way he is in the new enviroment isn't to me a big suprise.

Also really anything hasn't given me the idea of autism in the story since with the way Lalli handles things it fits to quite a few finns so i just think they need a way to break the ice between him and the rest of the crew.

Also was i the only one to think that Lalli was actually a girl? Originally i misfortunately just flipped trough the pages seeing if the story was any good and i really for a long time just asumed he was female   

[Richard Weir]

Oh yes, lots of people were confused by Lalli's gender. And Tuuri's. And as for Braidy - we still get drunk every now and then because people think he is a "she"!

[SeaAngel]

Really whenever Lalli is called touch sensitive and things like that i feel there is a small cultural disconnect there.

In finland people don't really touch each other like that, people don't get physical with each other unless they know each other well and seeing Lalli being the way he is in the new enviroment isn't to me a big suprise.

Also really anything hasn't given me the idea of autism in the story since with the way Lalli handles things it fits to quite a few finns so i just think they need a way to break the ice between him and the rest of the crew.

Also was i the only one to think that Lalli was actually a girl? Originally i misfortunately just flipped trough the pages seeing if the story was any good and i really for a long time just asumed he was female   

Plus a lot of the times the 'touching' was in fact, slapping, clinging, punching, squeezing, and smothering None of those are pleasant.

Hey I thought he was a girl too!!! XD 'What a nice, innocent looking girl this is'

[FinnishViking]

I supose most people were expecting there to be more distinction between males and females with more chiselled jaws and perhaps males being more muscular. Honestly though i guess i kinda like it since i can actually project quite a bit of myself to the charicter quite easily.

[Solovei]

Really whenever Lalli is called touch sensitive and things like that i feel there is a small cultural disconnect there.

In finland people don't really touch each other like that, people don't get physical with each other unless they know each other well and seeing Lalli being the way he is in the new enviroment isn't to me a big suprise.

Also really anything hasn't given me the idea of autism in the story since with the way Lalli handles things it fits to quite a few finns so i just think they need a way to break the ice between him and the rest of the crew.

Also was i the only one to think that Lalli was actually a girl? Originally i misfortunately just flipped trough the pages seeing if the story was any good and i really for a long time just asumed he was female   

You bring up a good point regarding cultural differences! Things like how close is too close when it comes to personal space, or how you interact with "strangers" varies a lot in different places.

[FinnishViking]

I supose most people were expecting there to be more distinction between males and females with more chiselled jaws and perhaps males being more muscular. Honestly though i guess i kinda like it since i can actually project quite a bit of myself to the charicter quite easily.

Yea stuff like that would most likely never fly here since whoever did that would face quite a swift response of curse words and flurry of jabs and punches directed at the "assailant"

[Paul Ferris]

All the above signify that he has a hard time to recognize social cues. This is a characteristic of either REALLY socially inexperienced people, or autistic people, not introverts. I really don't see why he should be more inexperienced than Tuuri- they grew up in the same environment. If he was an introvert, then he would be used to HER and Onni's company, and would learn to socialize.

Ah, but you forgot something: Lalli has been leading the night shift for SIX YEARS (assuming he started at puberty like the Cleansers) - probably with no holidays. Six years of no social interaction is easily enough to imitate an autism spectrum disorder, especially when it represents just under a third of his life.

Don't forget the cultural elements, as FinnishViking said above - Finns are not a a touchy-feely sort of people. If your culture is soft spoken and mostly verbal, and you've spent a third of your life stalking trolls by yourself, and suddenly you're thrust into a loud + physical group of people you'd feel pretty weird as well.

Then, of course, we have confirmation bias. When Lalli told Tuuri that they were in "a weird, scary foreign country" I heard "you dingus, look what you got us into" expressed by someone with little/no education. Everyone else jumped on the autism bandwagon by saying that it was a "bold statement of fact" expressed by what we're led to believe is an emotional robot. Whenever Lalli acts rudely or fails to acknowledge something he isn't just a very awkward person, it's yet more proof of his "autistic traits".

This comes to the fore with their interactions at the start - he didn't remember WHY he needed to quit his job because it was daylight and he was half asleep (sidenote, sleep deprivation can imitate every mental illness there is). But he remembered that he needed to do it and that the reason was important, so he did. He wasn't blindly following orders, he was acting in a constant daze and trying to get everything together despite zombiemode. Last night I tried to get milk out of my pantry - does that mean I have schizophrenia/alzheimers? Of course not. People conflate the reality (Lalli is a nasty cocktail of socially inexperienced and very tired) with what they'd like (Lalli is <conveniant stereotype>) because it feels better and is slightly easier to understand.

I agree mostly with Piney - we haven't seen enough of him in his element, and the vast majority of his coverage has seen him completely out of it. If he ever learns Swedish (or we see him again in Finland), we'll probably see a completely different side to his character.

[SeaAngel]

Even people with night shift have the chance to socialize with others the rest of the time. Besides, if he wanted to socialize more, I think he would have made efforts to achieve it.

People with autism are certainly not emotional robots! Whatever that means.

I'll agree that with enough sleep deprivation you'll stand doing all sorts of things, but I doubt he was THAT deprived. Even a 12h night shift allows you to have 6 hours of sleep, after which you are NOT supposed to act like a zombie.

Aaaand uh, I don't think that autism, a condition difficultly defined, different from person to person, and quite complicated is easier to understand than "awkward and tired". Quite the opposite, actually. Besides, if he IS autistic, he is not the stereotype of autism. And finally, if I had to pick from "akward and tired" and "underepresented in the media but very real condition", yeah, I'd go with the latter.

I'll repeat that the only reason I believe his autistic is that because other people who are supposed to understand it better said so. I don't think Minna will ever give a diagnosis, though. We'll just have to wait and see.

[UFOO9000]

I have to agree with the night shifts making him less sociable. I worked a graveyard shift for 6 months and I can tell you that I was not a happy kitten when I had to socialize. Everyone wanted to do stuff when I was supposed to sleep and I ended up half awake everywhere I went and not in a very good mood even if I tried to be sociable and somewhat pleasant company. Sleeping 4 hours because everyone wants you to be sociable is awful. Stress, depression and a very big case of leave-me-alone was what I ended up with. And I'm not a social butterfly, so I started that job with an already very social circle, but the minimum I had to do was enough to make me stop after 6 months even though I liked the job.

He can have autism and still be a zombie because of his situation, one does not cancel the other. And really, if we go with the definition of autism, anyone can be in that spectrum, there's is no "rules" as to what makes someone it or not. We are going on speculations from a comic that as yet to explain him at all other then that he is blunt and does not get jokes (that we did not see so no idea if they are jokes to be gotten?)

[FinnishViking]

Yes i think it's quite likely we will never get a definite answer but with the new page up i think we will find out more about our slender and secluded friend since he somehow managed to bugger off.

My bet is he just wanting some privacy since i think he wasn't exactly aproving of that half hug (?) he was given

[starfallz]

Other people have floated around Lalli as a sociopath or psychopath as well. I guess I have a really hard time seeing those or the autistic diagnosis, plus we have seen Lalli for less than a handful of days in a very alien situation to him. I think we don't really have much information about him.