Author Topic: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'  (Read 108043 times)

thegreyarea

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #705 on: May 04, 2021, 11:38:42 AM »
I'm pagan and I used to be Christian. My dad is a Christian who says whatever I do is a sin and my mom is a Christian who believes that God loves everyone. You can be a Christian without going about telling people to repent their sins. Minna basically told everyone that in her warning/afterword. And just now in her comment on recent video. It scares me honestly. SSSS is my hyperfixation. I really REALLY don't want Minna's personal opinions to ruin it. Ever since I've got into SSSS I've been drawing Emilalli fanart and now I'm scared and unsure. I just want to keep enjoying SSSS. I don't want to think about this. It's honestly too much. And honestly I'm not angry at her. I'm WORRIED about her and what'll happen to her work. For now, I'll just keep reading SSSS since it brings me comfort and joy.
Some are more able than others to separate the author from the work. I personally feel sad for the situation and a angry by the lack of sensitivity to the way some readers were affected, but remained able to enjoy the comic (which, truth be told, would be easier without the add for LP under each page).

BTW I'm also a big Emilalli shipper, and would love to see your fanart. If you want to share it we have the SSSS Art Museum just for that! And if you want to introduce yourself we have The Introduction Thread. And welcome! (here's a cookie  :squirrelcookie: )
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ChascaKhuno

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #706 on: May 04, 2021, 05:31:10 PM »
@thegreyarea  Honestly who *doesn't* ship Emil and Lalli? Well, besides Minna herself lol.

lallivaesterstroem

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #707 on: May 04, 2021, 06:07:47 PM »
So the (very bad) warning Minna had about the heavy Christian theme of Lovely People is gone again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(I'm sure someone has already noted this in which case sorry about repeating the issue!)

Sorry, maybe I missed this somehow, but... what warning? Or are we talking about the description that included "Christian homemaker"?

(To be fair, due to my experiences with Christianity, just reading that there's a "Christian homemaker" in there made me quite wary LOL but the extent to which this was taken still hit me like a ton of bricks, so)

thegreyarea

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #708 on: May 04, 2021, 06:53:12 PM »
Sorry, maybe I missed this somehow, but... what warning? Or are we talking about the description that included "Christian homemaker"?
I may be wrong, but suppose Windy is referring a previous text that described LP as something with a "spiritual and secular approach" IIRC, which is quite vague, particularly to people that aren't used with the spiritual/secular dicotomy (and considering that the author has several kinds of "spirits" on her previous works).
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SkyWhalePod

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #709 on: May 04, 2021, 07:20:51 PM »
I may be wrong, but suppose Windy is referring a previous text that described LP as something with a "spiritual and secular approach" IIRC, which is quite vague, particularly to people that aren't used with the spiritual/secular dicotomy (and considering that the author has several kinds of "spirits" on her previous works).

The current blurb on the hummingfluff site reads as you've described, with the "secular and spiritual" nod, but even the reference to a Christian homemaker is gone from that blurb.

LP's description has gone through a couple of different iterations -- there was one, I could swear, had something like 'heads up this has a strong Christian bend to it' in parentheses afterward. I have no idea where I saw it, or if I just dreamed it though. I might be thinking of the Future Works newsletter she announced a few weeks ago. Either way, that kind of blunt heads up is distinctly missing from the current online blurbs, which is a little ironic given how compelled Minna said she felt to be very blunt with Lovely People. (Source: the vlog she posted today)
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catbirds

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #710 on: May 04, 2021, 11:21:07 PM »
So the (very bad) warning Minna had about the heavy Christian theme of Lovely People is gone again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, the description used to include something something "Christian homemaker." This appeared in the author's notes for each SSSS page until the banner showed up, and the Christian homemaker part was like the only tip-off about Christianity. It absolutely flew over my head though! Because practically every piece of media I've seen in my entire life has included Christians by default, so I have no words to explain how unhelpful that warning is. (But as I've said, the inclusion of a christian element did not bother me. Rather, it was the overall message that the comic was trying to push.)

Now, it's just "a cute and serious story about a Social Credit system." Her description on her recent youtube videos also doesn't mention it

What'll we do...

SkyWhalePod, I've been having similar problems sorting out what actually happened after LP was released and what I dreamt up! But, no, I've checked dozens of times, the thing where she says there will be a Christian slant was for the newsletter sign-up link for her next comic.

I just watched her video, it's been making me nervous recently, honestly. Uhhh... honest thoughts? I feel like she's overestimating how much she knows about the future, and social credit systems, and what it's like to live in a dystopia. Part of that stems from basing LP off a country she knows next to nothing about. The other part might just be my growing sense of sadness.

catbirds, you just reminded me of a conversation I had with a friend, when I tried to explain her this LP problem. She concurred it seems wrong from A to Z but didn't understand why I have lost interest in SSSS. Civil discussion ensued; in short, she advocated for The Death of the Author. That does not mean anybody hopes something bad happens to any author! It is, instead, a way of reading and interpreting a work, where work and author are completely detached. By TDotA, when considering a work, nothing not explicitly inserted in that work exists. So neither author's intention, later explanations, even later sequels have to be considered. That'd mean that, as long as SSSS does not show itself as 'problematic,' there's no reason not to read it, as there's no link between it and LP.

Yeah, death of the author has come up in online discussions about literature a LOT recently. I think what you're saying is that it is better applied to literally dead authors? Forgive me if I misread. Either way, I can see that a lot of people's feelings towards SSSS were greatly soured by the events that unfolded either in the recent past or post-LP release, so death of the author does not really work in its purest form. There have been many worse instances where authors turned out to be pretty terrible, and it's pretty unfortunate that people will have to contend with having supported someone while disagreeing with a large chunk of their beliefs or actions.

The alternative, which is not a formal concept that has been dissected by scholars as far as I can tell, is "separating the art from the artist," as approximately explained by thorny and grey. I'm pretty on the fence about that concept tbh, especially if the artist has begun actively pushing their agenda as Minna is doing right now. But, y'know, SSSS has become quite special to many of us and inspired a lot of us to do things that we would not have done without it, so I understand the need to find some kind of compromise. (Further reading is available in the Future of our Fandom thread)

Tarnagh

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #711 on: May 04, 2021, 11:55:06 PM »
I feel like she's overestimating how much she knows about the future, and social credit systems, and what it's like to live in a dystopia. Part of that stems from basing LP off a country she knows next to nothing about.
Considering the sheltered life she's led (as well as her apparent unwillingness to learn from her mistakes), I'm having a hard time believing she's going to have the empathy to pull that off. I suspect I know where this is going to end up but I'm going to put that piece of jaded cynicism under a spoiler tag.

Spoiler: Jaded Cynicism Alert! • show
At this point, ALL Minna has going for her in her new endeavor is the Christianity angle. For the excellent work she had done in the past creating a dystopia out of SSSS, that kind of thing isn't going to fly for her new audience. What will appeal to them however is the Christian Martyr Theme. And at this point, Minna can be credibly said to have a little "experience" with that - look at how horribly her old fanbase treated her when she came out as a Christian! And never mind the actual, entirely valid reasons people had for being upset that had nothing to do with her conversion whatsoever. Persecution is in the mind of the beholder. I suspect she's going to try her hand at the anti-Christian dystopia trope. Or possibly some variant on the done-to-death "Left Behind" scenario. Whatever she does, will have to meet the approval of her new audience, ie: overbearingly Christian to most outsiders, and that generally means some kind of variant of the themes I've just mentioned. I've said before in this thread that she's stifling her creativity for the sake of acceptance in her new faith. The second she tries to go outside the boundaries they have dictated for her, she's going to find out what *ahem* Lovely People they are.
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thorny

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #712 on: May 05, 2021, 12:07:01 AM »
The alternative, which is not a formal concept that has been dissected by scholars as far as I can tell, is "separating the art from the artist," as approximately explained by thorny and grey.

Not sure how to explain this better, and it's probably too late at night here for me to make much of a job of it anyway: but I wasn't really trying to entirely separate the art from the artist; more to consider what of the art might be usable anyway, while acknowledging problems with the artist and how they may show up in even apparently innocuous work.

Windfighter

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #713 on: May 05, 2021, 01:01:43 AM »
Sorry, maybe I missed this somehow, but... what warning? Or are we talking about the description that included "Christian homemaker"?

(To be fair, due to my experiences with Christianity, just reading that there's a "Christian homemaker" in there made me quite wary LOL but the extent to which this was taken still hit me like a ton of bricks, so)

Yup, I meant the "christian homemaker", which Minna seemed to only add because people asked her to warn for the Very Heavy Christianity As The One True Path(except with the prettier word which I can neither pronounce nor spell ahaha)-theme out of respect for people who have traumatic experiences from christianity

When I caught the comic it hadn't even gotten that warning, but now we're back to "oh it's just a cute bunnycomic" and honestly I'm just *flop*

anyway I put the words "very bad" there for a reason :P
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Superdark33

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #714 on: May 05, 2021, 04:19:28 AM »
It only makes sense she would hide the christianity of this drivel by saying its a story about "social credit", after all thats likely how she found this dogma herself!


Never admitting fault ever, so when criticized of using a slur against asian people, she decided that its actually china's fault, leading her to whatever anti chinese pages were also peddling trad-christianity-fascism and there we have Lovely People.

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esedege

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #715 on: May 05, 2021, 09:04:15 AM »
Yeah, death of the author has come up in online discussions about literature a LOT recently. I think what you're saying is that it is better applied to literally dead authors? Forgive me if I misread. Either way, I can see that a lot of people's feelings towards SSSS were greatly soured by the events that unfolded either in the recent past or post-LP release, so death of the author does not really work in its purest form. There have been many worse instances where authors turned out to be pretty terrible, and it's pretty unfortunate that people will have to contend with having supported someone while disagreeing with a large chunk of their beliefs or actions.

Re-reading my previous post, I get why it sounded like that about TDotA being better when applied to dead authors, but thorny improved upon it perfectly here.

So for me that comes down to three issues, in no particular order: one, is the specific work bad in its essence, not just in a line here or there? two, is the work being read/heard/whatever with attention to and acknowlegement of any such lines here or there, and with awareness of less obvious issues? three, is money being spent on the work in such a fashion that it helps the author, or the author's inheritors, continue to do the bad thing?

And I think there are a whole lot of cases in which the answer to continuing to read/enjoy the work, and/or to build other work upon it, after consideration of those issues, is going to quite reasonably vary from one person to another.

But I do think it matters that the issues are considered.

I think we should consider works and authors with a nuanced perspective, as a complete opposite to TDotA. Our demands should be higher for today's authors because they live… well… today. We should push them towards our collective ideals of tolerance and inclusivity by our actions as consumers.

However, we shouldn't discard by default old works that don't fit neatly into those ideals, or even if they clash against them. Who was its author, when, where, how they lived? If you hold the same standard for someone living in the 21st century as for someone who lived during the 21st Dinasty of Egipt… you're in for a ride. Even worse, you'd be falling into presentism. As a broad stroke, I don't think it's even fair for the Silent Generation authors (b. 1928-1945). So, as thorny said, we should be asking ourselves if we can extract something of value from that work so we could build upon it. Let me place a kinda controversial examples inside this next spoiler

Spoiler: Nazism, Racism • show

"Let's destroy and never consider any work the nazis did!" Well, Disney looked into Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will to create that hyena march for The Lion King.

One of the Aesop's Fables (The Blackamoor) goes on about a guy who buys a black slave and keeps washing him to 'clean' him of that 'blackness'. Worse still, the copy I had explained the moral of the story as 'Just like the blackness is engrained in black people, the evilness has no cure.' Wow. I closed the book then and there. However… this fable does not detract from his good ones, but also serves as a reality check: Aesop was a Greek guy living during the 6th century BC.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 09:08:13 AM by esedege »

PyroDesu

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #716 on: May 05, 2021, 01:48:03 PM »
Considering the sheltered life she's led (as well as her apparent unwillingness to learn from her mistakes), I'm having a hard time believing she's going to have the empathy to pull that off.

I'm just going to make a quick comment on this - I've been archiving aRTD (just in case) and... I'm starting to think Hannu's characterization may have more or less been Minna writing what she knows, so to speak. Possibly the Kinnunen siblings as well.

Though her reaction to the reaction to LP is more reminiscent of Puppy-Fox...
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 04:13:33 PM by PyroDesu »
Quote from: syvarris
Pyro is probably some experimental government R&D AI.

Tarnagh

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #717 on: May 05, 2021, 04:48:27 PM »
In semi-related news, someone offered helpful advice in the comment section of page 423.
Quote
adblock-> right click -> block element
I use ABP. I clicked on ABP, selected the option for "block element" and it asked me to click on what I wanted to block. I did that for both panels below the main comic, and now they're both permanently gone.

For anyone who doesn't want to keep seeing them, considering they're not going to go away.
It matters not how strait the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll. I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul.

PyroDesu

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #718 on: May 05, 2021, 05:08:41 PM »
In semi-related news, someone offered helpful advice in the comment section of page 423. I use ABP. I clicked on ABP, selected the option for "block element" and it asked me to click on what I wanted to block. I did that for both panels below the main comic, and now they're both permanently gone.

For anyone who doesn't want to keep seeing them, considering they're not going to go away.

And for those of us using uBlock Origin, either use the element picker like that or insert this:
Code: [Select]
www.sssscomic.com###comic_blogcontent > div:nth-of-type(1)into your filter list (gears icon in the toolbar menu, "my filters"). That one entry will get it all, both panels and the space they're embedded in, in one shot. It won't touch anything else - the author's notes, Disqus, etc. are all in a separate div. For some reason.

(Minna's sites have some strange coding. I know the aRTD site actually looks hand-coded, at least partly. But in this instance, I'm not going to complain about an oddity that helps this blocking.)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 05:15:03 PM by PyroDesu »
Quote from: syvarris
Pyro is probably some experimental government R&D AI.

Róisín

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #719 on: May 06, 2021, 01:42:19 AM »
Pyro, it has been said that all characters with any depth are facets of the author. I do see what you mean.
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