Editor's Note: This discussion was touched off by Phyre Storm on comic page 182, who asked whether Mikkel Madsen was obese -- and if so, how he could get that way in a world (presumably) low on our modern empty calories and junk food.
Word of God stepped in eventually to establish that Madsen is just "big-boned" (and a liiiittle overweight, AND wearing a fluffy parka). But in the meantime, we had a very interesting discussion about food, farming, exercise, and physique in the SSSS world. Selected highlights follow.Phyre Storm said:Please excuse me if this has been addressed already and/or if it offends anyone, but how do people get fat in this world? I was willing to overlook Tuuri being a bit chubby and [Taru] because she was in her 40's and clearly fairly well-off, but how the hell did a youngish field medic like Mikkel get to be obese?
Just how much farmland is available out of the cleansed areas, and how much of that is devoted to pasture or feed crops for livestock? Or is everyone just eating grains? Sugar is the main thing that makes people in First World countries fat now, and I doubt anyone's planting sugarcane in this world or converting corn into High-Fructose Nasty **** when they could just eat it.
Again, I'm not some fat-phobe. I could actually stand to lose a few pounds myself (I AM American, after all. ;P) I just don't get how there's enough extra food for people to get fat when there's so little farmland and hunting and gathering are pretty much out.
minnasundberg Mod
Hey, Mikkel isn't obese, he's big boned! And a little bit overweight, heheh.
And he lives on the Danish island Bornholm which is like a farmer's paradise.
Also it's a comic, with magic and monsters and medic cats. Not everything is going to be overtly realistic. (But in this case gaining a little bit of weight isn't unrealistic.
)
Sanlade--> Phyre Storm
Sugar beets. Look at the window on page 120. And there is no signs of a famine. After all, they live at year 90 post outbreak, so they propably have fullfilled most of the community's basic needs.
Minando:
There were a LOT of candy stores in Copenhagen...a few of them must have made it to Bornholm.
So: not his fault.
Tehbeefer: There's also the saying, "Never trust a skinny cook"
Phyre Storm --> minnasundberg
Well, there we have it. It's been WOG'ed. Mikkel just has a REALLY fluffy coat. Annnd is also kinda sorta just a little bit fat.
Once again, I never meant to offend anyone or bash people of any body type.
Ack, now I'm hungry for potatoes. xP
Annie:
We've seem some others of Mikkel's shape in the military - look at the one guard on the train [with the "fat wound"], and one of the passengers. It's a common enough Nordic/Germanic phenotype, and some of those people are incredibly fit beneath that fat (for example, look at how Taru was less winded by the run to the train that Emil and outpaced Siv by a lot).
Mikkel's build reminds me of some of the serious weight-lifters I know - a lot of them have what looks like a serious beer gut and a generous layer of fat over muscle, which makes them look really big.
As to how he got that layer of fat, I would imagine the Bornholm diet would include a LOT of potatoes, and probably a LOT of dairy. I also think that in safe areas like that (and in much of Sweden), issues of food shortage probably aren't so bad by Year 90.
Euodiachloris:
People can just be built differently, you know. You get shapes like unto Tuuri and Mikkel in places such as Yorkshire and Tyneside. Because of a lot of Danish and Norse influence. From people who work the land or on a building site day in, day out and are hardly unfit or with a screamingly high BMI. <_<
It's just their shape. :|
Roux:Aside from body types: I guess, in post-apocalyptic world people won't mind gaining some weight, just in case of bad harvest or something. I know it's not exactly healthy, but, for example, my Siberian grandma - who, I guess, was far better at survival than I am - was irritated at people trying to lose weight.
JoB --> Roux
my Siberian grandma [...] was irritated at people trying to lose weight.
FWIW, survival in a world where famines Happen(tm) is what evolution handed us all those fat-deposit-building mechanisms for in the first place, so I'm not at all surprised that "the pros" would take exception at the concept of counteracting them on purpose.
JoB: Well, first and foremost, his bio says he's a farmer, too. And a cook. "Sitting right at the source" on two counts. (And who knows, maybe that is even part of why he's "between jobs" so often.)
Second: Climate. We're talking about a part of the world where "thin as a twig" might translate to a life expectancy of "gone next midwinter" instead of "clockwork of a heartbeat 'til an age of 90+".
Phyre Storm--> JoB You have a point about skinny people not being selected for in cold regions, but I'm from farming stock and it's actually a LOT of physical work if you don't have machines to do it for you. Put Mikkel to work on a 1930's era farm for a year and he'll slim down a LOT if he doesn't die of a heart attack.
OrigamiOwl--> Phyre Storm*farm buddy high-five*
It certainly is hard work, even today with machines doing at least half the hardest jobs, but sometimes the machines can be dangerous- so many accidents in my area O__O most recently a poor man got dragged into a reflective-tarp roller and died...
We still do a lot of stuff manually instead, so for me personally, being heavier is actually quite beneficial for my particular jobs: lifting, pushing, pulling (hehe like a draught horse XP), and keeping heavy things stationary, and handling large cattle, having some upper-body strength helps too I guess
my actual fitness is extremely awful though, (ie: endurance running ;__;) so your point definitely stands! Heart-attacks everywhere!! D8
Green Thumb:Former Farmer here as well, from Dakota region. And honestly, in some areas where I'm from people like Mikkel are the standard size even when they are fit.
It's not the lack of exercise, it's not the food, it's not anything else but just the fact that they are WIDE. We're talking linebacker width without the daily training regiment to give the muscle tone. Giving the fact that more of the people where I'm from have Nordic/Germanic stock, I'm not quite ready to declare Mikkel obese.
Especially with how thick the uniforms appear to be.
Phyre Storm --> Green Thumb
Before I get too much undeserved credit, I should make it clear I'm not a farmer myself. I'm a child of a farm girl who got an education and married a city boy and raised me all soft-like.
I can't claim to know first-hand what it's like to live on a farm, but there are cows less than a mile from me in three directions right now, and I was raised with a healthy respect and understanding of where my food comes from, and I can tell you, it's a royal pain in the ass to get it from seed to table.
OrigamiOwl--> Phyre Storm
Heeee, seed to table/paddock to plate isn't so hard (any kid or granny can do it ;3) but being paid enough to produce the next crop and put food on your own table while the metropolis chows down is the real magic-trick
it's the middle-men I tell ya (once we actually got paid about $36.10 for a whole years harvest of fruit because of percentage-y shenanigans...that was like a kick in the face)
Chris:Genetics is part of it, but remember what we know of Tuuri.
Her profile says that she's a pencil-pusher and we know she has an overprotective brother. Exercise isn't a thing she gets a lot of.
I suspect Lalli is the sort who'd never put on weight, even if you fed him corn syrup everyday and sat him down on a couch 24/7. He's just a gangly fellow who doesn't put on mass, muscle or fat.
I'm the same type as Lalli genetically. I love it.
OrigamiOwlYup, it's just a ratio of: genetics + food intake + exercise
(right?). Wellbeing might be in there too but oh well
GingerOpal
Genetics is the answer to your questions. "Obese" is a very broadly used term now. Mikkel seems to be a "barrel" shaped man (like a gladiator body), which has more to do with skeletal and muscle structure than with what he eats. Some bodies (especially womens' bodies) can turn just about anything into fat, they're just designed that way, just like there are women who can eat all the junk in the world and never gain a pound. Genetic makeup. And it's not just sugar, but ANYTHING that contains calories, carbohydrates...heck, food in general makes people fat. I know women who eat as healthy as it gets and never get skinny. Biology always trumps fad diets and media portrayals, as much as we wish it didn't.
Annie
One detail I loved was how Taru was less winded by the run to the train than Emil and Siv. We've also seen other heavy-set folk in military roles. There may be a sense in Year 90 that having some "meat on your bones" means you've got endurance.
Scholiast Actually, that physical phenotype ("barrel-shaped") is a rather common one in Denmark. Beyond thin or fat, some people simply don't have a narrow waistline.
As a quite typical Dane, my chest, waist, and hips have always measured close to each other. Even during periods when I have been most physically fit (bigger chest, less fat around the gut), this hasn't varied much. And when I've been overweight, I didn't look "fat", so much as "big and chunky". (Oh heck, just look at the thumbnail picture I use for an avatar, it says it all.)
There are other typically Danish phenotypes, but this one is not unusual.
Sharion:... [Men] with this construction also gain muscles faster and easier than others, while still keeping some added "fat". These type of muscles usually good if someone has to work hard and steadily for long-long hours, but not so much if you need to do faster moves, even for a shorter time. At least, this is mostly true about my acquaintances - with some exceptions.
That said, Mikkel still looks to have somewhat more on him than just the "natural" amount of fat. Well, it could get solved soon enough, with their reduced food stock and possible heavy "exercise" coming up.
Phyre Storm --> GingerOpal
No, I get it about different body types. ...
As for our beloved characters, if we're talking about Tuuri, sure, that could well be a healthy weight for her, and she should totally ignore the bratty kid who called her fat. She seems able to run around as much as she wants, and she looks far healthier than Lalli. (OMG, someone find out what was in that sandwich he stole from Emil and give him LOTS of it, stat!)
If we look back at Mikkel's ancestor, Michael, we see a fairly healthy, naturally heavyset man. Maybe he should lose a few pounds, maybe not. It's hard to tell under the suit, but no big deal either way.
Now look at Mikkel again.
If that's a barrel, it must be made of some kind of really stretchy wood or it would have exploded long ago. I'm sorry, but he looks like he weighs 400 lbs, and that just ain't healthy.
I don't like him any less for it, but saying he's not fat [makes as little sense to me] as saying Lalli's not skinny.
DaiJB --> Phyre Storm
Actually, if Lalli is anything like my 19-year-old son, he could eat those sandwiches all day long and not put on a kilo!
Come to think of it, he has the same bony appearance.... Some just have that kind of metabolism.
Also, that's one heavy winter-weight jacket on a big guy - I doubt if Mikkel is more than a bit heavy for his height and build.
Chris --> DaiJB
Of course, I'm not trying to definitively state that Mikkel is one way or the other. A lot depends on how active he is. But you can probably think of strong athletes who run to fat when they go inactive. It's hard to tell under that coat.
Mikkel's profile states that he is a farmer that's done a lot of odd jobs. If that work involves a lot of heavy lifting and aerobics, then you can bet that he's pretty ripped. I wouldn't want to get into a fist fight with the guy either way. He'd just manhandle me like Lalli there.
Chris:Muscle and fat are different spokes of the same wheel. It's anabolism versus catabolism. Mikkel strikes me as the type to use calories to builds stuff instead of burning it. It's why you have so many fat strong people.
Lalli is a slight fellow who gets a lot of exercise, but isn't going win any Strongman competitions.
Euodiachloris --> Chris
Dunno: Lalli comes across as the wiry kind. Long-distance is what he's likely very good at... which means packing a lot of brown muscle, by proportion. Which in turn means he's going to be a lot stronger than he looks, even if he doesn't have the weight to use as leverage behind his actions. :|
GingerOpal --> Phyre Storm
You need to look at more pictures of him. In the profile picture of all the characters on the front page (scroll down), there's no way he's 400 lbs. And this picture on the "about" page.
http://www.sssscomic.com/maini... Minna might have drawn him a bit larger here to accentuate how big he is compared to Lalli, by far the wiriest character in the cast, for comedy's sake. Also, it looks like Mikkel is the one who gets to carry the most luggage, so it would make sense to be hefty.
Phyre Storm--> GingerOpal
You're right--Mikkel certainly looks thinner there. I still don't really get how he got to be so "hefty," as you put it, but several people have had informative things to say on the topic and I'm always glad to learn something.
