Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat

[Lazy8]

I've actually thought of this around the time Tuuri got bitten, and I have the feeling that Emil is the only person in the entire crew with no obvious connection to the chain of events he can blame himself for:
Lalli --> everything mentioned above
Sigrun --> neglected her wound, missed the troll
Mikkel --> It did happen in the middle of the battle, but he could blame himself for not making sure he had gotten the troll Sigrun was talking about
Reynir --> Sigrun got wounded protecting him, he was in the room when it happened, he probably could have done something if he was better at magic and he basically lied to Onni after the fact
Yep, the guilt trip potential is strong for the following chapter.

Don't forget Mikkel --> stirred up those ghosts in the first place because he had to go after the serum right now, and didn't take Reynir's warnings seriously due to his open disdain for magic. (That is, assuming that seeing a giant flaming eagle burst out of Emil's flamethrower and fly around the battlefield was enough to convince him, but then again this is Mikkel, he's been known to be pretty pigheaded.)

[Grade E cat]

Ssshhh. Lalala I'm not hearing youu

My thoughts exactly.

Don't forget Mikkel --> stirred up those ghosts in the first place because he had to go after the serum right now, and didn't take Reynir's warnings seriously due to his open disdain for magic. (That is, assuming that seeing a giant flaming eagle burst out of Emil's flamethrower and fly around the battlefield was enough to convince him, but then again this is Mikkel, he's been known to be pretty pigheaded.)

This page hints that even Emil hasn't been completely convinced quite yet, and he's the one who had the thing come out of his weapon. At any rate, the extent to which these two can afford to not believe in magic is fading away fast, between the loss of the radio and that of the only other actual Finnish speaker on the crew besides Lalli.

[Jharad17]

Still room for Lalli, however undeservedly, to blain himself. I see it like this: in Copenhagen,  Lalli didn't foresee the heavy snowfall, hence the flashback and the "I don't make mistakes" thing. So he finds a new way to the "safe" spot, a path where he exhausts his luonto self by almost killing all the trolls in the way,  but not quite- leaftroll survives. But the process leaves him unconcious so he can't warn the team of the approaching danger. And so Sigruns arm get hurt. An injury that makes her miss creepy crawly troll in the big attack, so that it enters the cattank and bites Tuuri. I wonder if this chain of events will be brought up in the story?

No, no, see, this is why it's Ensi's fault! She made the original mistake, and if she hadn't, Onni wouldn't have come down on Lalli so hard in Keuruu, and told Lalli he couldn't make mistakes ever. If she shows up later in the comic (as It, or a Kade or something), Lalli can tell her so.

But seriously, when it all boils down to it, it really is Mikkel's fault, though he has no idea, and would protest to the end of the world if you told him. All the other things could have happened, and Sigrun would've been bitten, and that would've been the end of it. But Mikkel stirred up the ghosts. Mikkel disdained the ghosts. And one of those ghosts became Sleipnope and followed them to Odense, herding the trolls before it. If Mikkel had listened to Sigrun... hell, if he'd listened to Reynir, Tuuri would not have died.

[Ilral]

I think it's her own fault, honestly. Only an idiot expects to go into a warzone and not get shot at, and only a fool expects to go into an infested area and not get attacked by trolls. Now, the others tried to save her, but trying and failing isn't enough to be blamed(otherwise there's be a case to blame people like the inventor of the cat-tank and the nordic council representative who tried to prevent them from going whatsoever).
What I think the real question is, though, is whether a long(possibly, Keuruu wouldn't be the first "secure" base to have fallen) life lived in utter boredom behind walls is better than a short life ending in a good death and a fine afterlife.

[Talimee]

But seriously, when it all boils down to it, it really is Mikkel's fault, though he has no idea, and would protest to the end of the world if you told him. All the other things could have happened, and Sigrun would've been bitten, and that would've been the end of it. But Mikkel stirred up the ghosts. Mikkel disdained the ghosts. And one of those ghosts became Sleipnope and followed them to Odense, herding the trolls before it. If Mikkel had listened to Sigrun... hell, if he'd listened to Reynir, Tuuri would not have died.

Yep, his insubordination is at the root of it. But there are some mitigating circumstances.

1. Even if Mikkel had heeded Reynir's warning, no one knows if just even the shortest presenceof humans in the ghosts' vicinity would have been enough to set them on their trail. (random question popping up just now: How did the ghosts know where to go? They had to wait considerable time before they could leave the hospital-room so the trio was surely out of sight? How did pre-Sleipnope find them?)

2. The Amalienborg-ghosts were practically stationary, so Mikkel could safely surmise that the ghosts would not pose a threat once they left Kastellet. The animal-trails in the snow might work as an argument for that as well since they avoid the immediate vicinity of the hospital-room but continue outside of that, indicating that the ghosts therein have only a limited range at all.

3. And a last thought on this, since I am just that kind of person (sorry): No one knows if Sigrun wouldn't have lead a party to Kastellet the next day as well. Checking some buildings for a possible cure wouldn't be a bad way to wait until the Scout woke up. If she ventured on a search, she would have needed to take Reynir with her (very unlikely) to get a warning about the ghosts. And even if that was the case, the things I said further up about the ghosts are still true.

I think it's her own fault, honestly. Only an idiot expects to go into a warzone and not get shot at, and only a fool expects to go into an infested area and not get attacked by trolls.
What I think the real question is, though, is whether a long(possibly, Keuruu wouldn't be the first "secure" base to have fallen) life lived in utter boredom behind walls is better than a short life ending in a good death and a fine afterlife.

I basically agree but I like to point out that it is a difference to go somewhere dangerous and hope to get out alive and go somewhere dangerous and expect to die there. Hope and "this only happens to other people" are very strong helpers when it comes to pushing uneasy thoughts away. If they weren't no soldier, no medic and no reporter at all would ever go into a warzone.

Only a few weeks back I discussed your last question with someone and they pointed out, quite accurately, that Tuuri could have gone anywhere in the Known World and have found a job immediately. She was a polyglot, a mechanic and a scald. Heck, if she wanted she could even have worked in a semi-dangerous environment like the research-facility Siv is working at. Tuuri didn't need to stay holed up in Keuruu if she didn't want to.
But, like those people racing to the Poles, it had to be the Silent World for her.

[Róisín]

Ilral, I think you make a good point. A short life and a good end is usually better than an existence of boredom and frustration.

'Cattle die, kin die.
Every man is mortal.
The one thing that is never lost
Is the worth of a life lived well.'

Talimee, I think Minna made it fairly obvious in the art of that page that the ghosts followed their trampled tracks in the snow, but in many folktales hostile spirits track people by the scent of their warm blood or the feel of their living souls.

[Jharad17]

I think it's her own fault, honestly. Only an idiot expects to go into a warzone and not get shot at, and only a fool expects to go into an infested area and not get attacked by trolls. Now, the others tried to save her, but trying and failing isn't enough to be blamed(otherwise there's be a case to blame people like the inventor of the cat-tank and the nordic council representative who tried to prevent them from going whatsoever).

Oh, absolutely, blame, if there is blame to be had, falls squarely on Tuuri's shoulders. That's different from saying she got what she deserved, as I don't believe anyone deserves such a fate. But, obviously, if Tuuri had not gone into the Silent World, she would still be alive... which leads to the following:

What I think the real question is, though, is whether a long(possibly, Keuruu wouldn't be the first "secure" base to have fallen) life lived in utter boredom behind walls is better than a short life ending in a good death and a fine afterlife.

Not for Tuuri, I think. She never thought that she would end up a statistic, but like she told Reynir, even after everything that happened, she didn't regret taking charge of her life. She would have wilted in Keuruu, and would have regretted not going, for the entirety of her long, boring life.

[Lazy8]

I think it's her own fault, honestly. Only an idiot expects to go into a warzone and not get shot at, and only a fool expects to go into an infested area and not get attacked by trolls. Now, the others tried to save her, but trying and failing isn't enough to be blamed(otherwise there's be a case to blame people like the inventor of the cat-tank and the nordic council representative who tried to prevent them from going whatsoever).
What I think the real question is, though, is whether a long(possibly, Keuruu wouldn't be the first "secure" base to have fallen) life lived in utter boredom behind walls is better than a short life ending in a good death and a fine afterlife.

Well, we were talking specifically about self-blame... though if we're going to shift onto the topic of who's objectively at fault, then yes, Tuuri does bear some responsibility for her own fate: she's the one who enthusiastically threw herself into this mission despite knowing full well (yes, she had that very common delusion of invincibility, "Oh, it'll never happen to me" going on, but that's not exactly an excuse) that this was an all-too-real possibility.

Another group of people I have yet to see blamed, in spite of the fact that they very richly deserve a great deal of blame: the Stingy Quartet. The second they saw their budget was the second they should have realized that there was no possible way to make this work, and that they needed to drop this crazy get-rich-quick scheme and go back to their real jobs and earn their money like everybody else. But no: they cut corners. They underequipped their team. (If they'd had an actual tank rather than a glorified RV, that troll would never have been able to get through the floor.) They knowingly hired multiple people who couldn't communicate with each other. They knowingly hired someone who wasn't immune. This mission was all but guaranteed to end in disaster right from its conception, and they still went ahead with it.

3. And a last thought on this, since I am just that kind of person (sorry): No one knows if Sigrun wouldn't have lead a party to Kastellet the next day as well. Checking some buildings for a possible cure wouldn't be a bad way to wait until the Scout woke up. If she ventured on a search, she would have needed to take Reynir with her (very unlikely) to get a warning about the ghosts. And even if that was the case, the things I said further up about the ghosts are still true.

That is admittedly a possibility. But the point is that Sigrun never made that call, because Mikkel never gave her a chance to make that call, therefore the blame falls squarely on his shoulders.

[Róisín]

Yeah, the Stingy Quartet definitely deserve a generous serving of blame for that.

[Talimee]

Talimee, I think Minna made it fairly obvious in the art of that page that the ghosts followed their trampled tracks in the snow, but in many folktales hostile spirits track people by the scent of their warm blood or the feel of their living souls.

*slaps forehead* Of course. Seems that tracks in the snow are too obvious for me. XD

That is admittedly a possibility. But the point is that Sigrun never made that call, because Mikkel never gave her a chance to make that call, therefore the blame falls squarely on his shoulders.

I would not have taken it off his shoulders. I was merely following along alternative possibilities.

[Jharad17]

The Quartet should definitely see the lion's share of blame, if it's to be apportioned properly. (Of course, if they'd called off their scheme when they should have, there wouldn't have been any story.) And of course, they would never blame themselves, but I have a feeling Onni will blame them. A lot.

[Lazy8]

I've also been coming up with a sorting algorithm of blame regarding who was responsible for Tuuri's death. (And this is specifically due to negligent or irresponsible behavior - so no "if only Lalli could have gotten there sooner". It's a shame that Lalli couldn't have gotten there sooner, and he might unjustifiably blame himself, but he got there as quickly as he was physically capable and acted as responsibly as can reasonably be expected, so the fact that he was a few seconds too late in shooting the troll isn't going on this list.)

In order of decreasing proximity from the event:

• Sigrun, for accepting Mikkel's vague non-answer as to how many trolls he'd killed to mean that he'd gotten it rather than either clarifying and demanding a real answer or going back to check herself
• Mikkel, for giving a vague non-answer to a question that, while unclear, was still obviously referring to a very specific troll rather than asking for clarification
• Sigrun, for hiding that her injury was bothering her
• I still maintain that if Mikkel had been on the ball in the aftercare department, he should have spotted that infection whether Sigrun told him about it or not
• Mikkel, for going off on an unauthorized side trip and ignoring all warnings, end result of which is that he stirred up the ghosts that led the attack
• Tuuri herself, for knowingly jumping to explore a world to which she was deathly allergic
• The Stingy Quartet, for everything I mentioned above

I would not have taken it off his shoulders. I was merely following along alternative possibilities.

Mm, I get what you mean. I do agree that if he'd taken the time to consult with Sigrun, there's a good chance they would have still gone to that building and stirred up the ghosts anyway - but in that case it would have been not so much the fault of someone acting irresponsibly as one of those tragic coincidences that's no one's fault. First of all they would have been taking more reasonable precautions, by having at least one combatant (Sigrun) present who's used to surviving in the Silent World. They probably would have left Reynir and Tuuri behind in the tank, under Emil's guard, because it's the responsible thing not to drag non-immune people and especially non-immune civilian stowaways into an unscouted area. (Note that Mikkel explicitly failed to do the responsible thing on several different counts, by 1) leaving two non-immune people alone with only a comatose "guard", and 2) allowing them to tag along with him rather than escorting them right back to the tank. Also note that when Sigrun brought everyone along with her to help carry stuff (Chapter 11), she did so only after she, Emil, and Lalli had already explored the area and confirmed it as safe.) Because Reynir wouldn't have been with them, they would have had no warning, and they can't be accused of negligence for not acting on information they didn't have. Even if they were aware that there were a few ghosts floating around the area, well, both Lalli and Reynir had already said they didn't seem hostile.

So yeah, there are definitely ways for this to have happened that don't require negligence on the part of the crewmembers. I'm... not sure whether this makes things better or worse.

[ZanarNaryon]

For the love of Odin, if you follow the trail long enough back, it's everyone's fault. Sigrun for ignoring her wound and not being able to stop crawley before it got into the tank, Lalli for leading them to the area where they first rattled one of Sleipnope's amagamate conciousness', Tuuri for accepting to go on this ridiculous mission, Mikkel for not hearing Sigrun out when she asked if he got the slithering one, Reynir for not being brave enough to stop the slither inside the tank, Emil... Can't actually think of something, but I'm sure there is something, the quartet for starting this ridiculous mission way underfunded, the Nordic Council of Search and Recovery for giving such a ridiculously small budget, that one member for losing his glasses, heck, even the Spanish guys for not being able to contain the Rash Illness.
Ultimately, if you go far enough, everyone is at fault for everything. We can't continue trying to find ways to blame the team

[Lazy8]

For the love of Odin, if you follow the trail long enough back, it's everyone's fault. Sigrun for ignoring her wound and not being able to stop crawley before it got into the tank, Lalli for leading them to the area where they first rattled one of Sleipnope's amagamate conciousness', Tuuri for accepting to go on this ridiculous mission, Mikkel for not hearing Sigrun out when she asked if he got the slithering one, Reynir for not being brave enough to stop the slither inside the tank, Emil... Can't actually think of something, but I'm sure there is something, the quartet for starting this ridiculous mission way underfunded, the Nordic Council of Search and Recovery for giving such a ridiculously small budget, that one member for losing his glasses, heck, even the Spanish guys for not being able to contain the Rash Illness.
Ultimately, if you go far enough, everyone is at fault for everything. We can't continue trying to find ways to blame the team

Um... chill. This isn't about character bashing; some of us just like to trace back cause and effect and what various characters could have done better to prevent this from happening. You don't; that's fine, but you're free to ignore the discussion or to bring up something else that interests you. But don't lecture others on what they can and cannot talk about.

[Lazy8]

Here's another one copy/pasted from the comments section, thoughts as to where the comic might go from here.

Spoiler: Cut for length • show

So I've been thinking about the fact that the chapter that just ended was the end of Book 3, and some of the themes that have been running through the series as a whole, and where the next book might go in light of the progress that's been made so far.

-Book 1 was dedicated to introducing the world and the characters and to establishing relationships. The prologue showed us how the apocalypse happened and why the mission is a thing. The first four chapters introduced every member of the official crew and sketched out some rough backstories. A chain of command is established, and we start to see how the various team members will relate to each other as they sort themselves out. Emil and Lalli bond, Sigrun takes Emil under her wing, Mikkel begins babysitting and clashing with Sigrun's authority, Emil manages to offend half of his crewmates within minutes of meeting them, and Tuuri is enamored of Sigrun.

-Book 2 seems to focus primarily on showcasing the characters' good traits. While their flaws are still there - we see Sigrun threaten to use Reynir as troll bait and Mikkel take an unauthorized side trip that endangers himself and others - they're muted or easily forgotten, and produce no lasting consequences that we see in this book. Instead, we see Mikkel take Reynir under his wing when no one else will, we see Reynir trying to help in whatever way he can, we see Emil break down over dead kittens and twist himself in knots to grant mercy to the beast that tried to kill him, we see Lalli correct a mistake on the fly and nearly kill himself doing so, we see Sigrun willingly sacrifice her arm to protect the one person she explicitly does not want there and sacrifice her own safety to get her vulnerable crewmates out of danger, we see Tuuri defy orders to wait on the tracks for the others to catch up. While Book 1 is the part that introduced the characters, Book 2 is the one that worked to get the audience truly invested in them.

-Then we come to Book 3, where the characters' flaws come to a head and the consequences of their actions truly start to hit them. The tone is set right there in the first few pages, when Lalli throws a bowl of soup in Emil's face for daring to speak the wrong language and Tuuri frankly admits to actively dismissing Lalli when he's upset, and even after the intensive end of the previous book, the crew doesn't seem to have had any sort of discussion as to a plan of action to deal with the ghosts. The unauthorized side trip that Mikkel took in a fit of temper has lasting consequences in the form of Sleipnope and in prolonging the mission with inadequate supplies. Sigrun's decision to ignore her wounds has lasting consequences for both her and the crew, when she's left with a life-threatening fever and is unable to defend the noncombatants right when she's needed most. Emil's ignorance about the world and tendency to put his foot in his mouth lead to a rift in his friendship with Lalli. Tuuri's blindness to consequences until they're right on top of her comes to a head when she's bitten and infected.

All of this comes around to the fact that we're now on the cusp of starting a new book, and the question of what the overarching theme will be this time. Personally, I'm hoping for this to be the point where they begin addressing those problems, and mending those lapses in communication, because however late it may be for Tuuri (whose death could have been prevented, even right up until the last minute, by some better communication between Sigrun and Mikkel), there are still five people left who need to get home, and they're going to have to pool every one of their resources in order to do it.