Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat

[JoB]

Has there been any word about book 2 by Minna, though?

Minna replied to questions about an aRTD reprint that that's more of a project than she's willing to take on in 2016. She did not specifically say so for SSSSvol2, but I'm slowly getting the impression that the same holds for it. Still maintaining hope, though ...

She's unlikely to sell through any other means than HiveWorks after the crowdfunders've received their copies, though. And I wouldn't be surprised to see an attempt to run even the backers through some similar service instead of doing the packing and shipping herself. She said that when she bought the house she lives in now, she did look for one allowing floor loads and truck access to do another shipment campaign, but she clearly doesn't like the workload.

Okay so like, those things that show up when a character is introduced that say their name / nationality / a tidbit about them / ect. I'm wondering if one for [Ms Mannered Minister] is going to show up eventually ?

Only if we do get a name, and Minna plans to make her a recurring character. (And then there's Kitty still waiting for the promised entry on the characters page - and not yet having had an intro box, either.) Right now, she's pronouncedly Danish, clashing with the official religions of the Known World, limited to the dreamscape, and if she agrees to become the caretaker/guide for the (Danish) souls trapped since Y0, there's enough work for her to last a (pardon the pun) lifetime, while the expedition will move on to other libraries to scavenge. That doesn't seem quite compatible to me ...

the Icelanders and Norwegians worship them. The Swedes definitely don't, though, nor do the Danes.

Yet, the info page says that the Nordic gods equipped them with fylgjur as well, skipping only the Finns for their association with their gods. Considering that noita supposedly can see spirits and thus verify that claim, I'ld be surprised if that statement were plain wishful thinking.

Not that the existence of a supernatural being that calls itself, say, Thor and encourages mankind to believe in worshipping it with specific rites would necessarily make the religion thus defined a true story ... or the absence of / loss of contact to another god the associated religion "false", unless he himself claimed to have disclosed the entire future to his followers.

[urbicande]

Yes. It could be possible that all current religions are true in the SSSS universe (including the Flying spaghetti monster, haha) and all gods exist next to each other. In Y90, however, I think the Norse and pagan gods are way more powerful than any of the other.

At least in the known world, that's very true.

[Jethan]

Today's page is just so fun.  I almost want to drink the coffee.

[Minutia_R]

Today's page is just so fun.  I almost want to drink the coffee.

I am not at all sure it's a good idea to be drinking the ghost coffee.

[Athena]

I am not at all sure it's a good idea to be drinking the ghost coffee.

Ahh, stop being such an Onni! It'll be fine! (from now on anyone being suspicious or worried will be referred to as Onni )

[Purple Wyrm]

No Reynir! Eating the food of the dead traps you in their world for ever!!! Didn't they teach you that at Mage School?!

Oh, yeah...

[Miriam]

No Reynir! Eating the food of the dead traps you in their world for ever!!! Didn't they teach you that at Mage School?!

Oh, yeah...

Too soon, Wyrm, too soon...

I find it fun that Reynir has wordlessly persuaded Onni to stay and chat. Apparently Onni cares enough about Reynir to stay with him in the 'dangerous' church. I also think Reynir's smile in the last big panel is cute.

I was wondering if eating and drinking food has influence on their stomachs. I don't think so, but I do think that eating cake in the dreamworld can make them feel full while they actually haven't eaten anything.

Another important question: What kind of cake is it? It doesn't exactly look like cheesecake because of the layers...

[ChazHoosier]

It's not clear that Christianity (or any other non-old-gods religion) is false or true in the SSSSverse.  The belief is that the Norse gods protected Iceland (although I'd go with the ruthless quarantine helping a lot with that -- the gods help those whom help themselves), and the Icelanders and Norwegians worship them. The Swedes definitely don't, though, nor do the Danes.  The Finns have their own, unrelated, gods.  Mages, as far as we know, draw their power from the gods (although I have my own theories on that).

So the only thing we have to go in is that a) gods exist in this world and b) multiple sets of gods can exist at the same time.

Pagan gods cannot be real unless the Christian faith turns out to have been very, gravely wrong about the nature of things.  Pagan gods could exist alongside other gods because their concern was with one household, city, or nation—the Christian God's claim to universal relevance is unique in European religion.  Though that's really neither here nor there in Minna's fictional world.

I also presume that the reason Finns and Icelanders turned to paganism is that pagan mages had something to offer that Christian priests did not.

[urbicande]

Pagan gods cannot be real unless the Christian faith turns out to have been very, gravely wrong about the nature of things.  Pagan gods could exist alongside other gods because their concern was with one household, city, or nation—the Christian God's claim to universal relevance is unique in European religion.  Though that's really neither here nor there in Minna's fictional world.

Having one set of gods or another waxing or waning as time goes on is perfectly OK within the SSSSverse, though.  Nothing to say that the various monotheistic faiths are wrong about that either, of course.  We simply don't have enough information as to how the Y90 world works with respect to the divine.  (Which makes sense, given we don't have that much information about how the divine works here in Y0)

[Laufey]

the Christian God's claim to universal relevance is unique in European religion.

There is no such thing as "European" when it comes to how Christianity has been practiced, different countries and areas have all had their own little specialties and quirks. When it comes to the Nordics, Finns and Icelanders have been blending Pagan tradition with Christianity ever since they turned Christian. Finns especially kept serving their Pagan gods, land spirits and powers to such extent that there are countless complaints about it written by local priests. If Minna decides to bring in Christianity as another just as valid religion it's both historically correct and a logical continuum to how things have been f.ex. in Finland up until as recently as WW2.

I also presume that the reason Finns and Icelanders turned to paganism is that pagan mages had something to offer that Christian priests did not.

That's how it's always been, and the answer people found to it was to ask favours sort of... from the office that regulated them. Still unmarried? A few generic love spells to enhance your own sex appeal was totally fine. Went fishing? Why not give a bit of silver to the powers of water, or leave the first catch at a holy cup rock, that was just to make sure the spirits around were happy. Got ill and prayer didn't make you better? Well... the local magic user/s might be able to help, didn't hurt to ask.

[ChazHoosier]

Is making a potion or scratching a glyph on the door post real, sincere worship of pagan gods?  Certain petty-fogging priests might have thought so, but all evidence suggests that people who did these things in the Middle Ages were entirely sincere Christians who would have been horrified by the suggestion that they were pagans on any level.

[urbicande]

There is no such thing as "European" when it comes to how Christianity has been practiced, different countries and areas have all had their own little specialties and quirks. When it comes to the Nordics, Finns and Icelanders have been blending Pagan tradition with Christianity ever since they turned Christian. Finns especially kept serving their Pagan gods, land spirits and powers to such extent that there are countless complaints about it written by local priests. If Minna decides to bring in Christianity as another just as valid religion it's both historically correct and a logical continuum to how things have been f.ex. in Finland up until as recently as WW2.

Oooh, that's interesting!  I didn't know that!  How interesting! (Mind, my knowledge of Christianity is pretty superficial, and my knowledge of Finnish history and culture is very limited.  (Although I can tell you that lonkero was invented for the 1952 Olympics because everybody in Finland told me that when I ordered one)

[Laufey]

Is making a potion or scratching a glyph on the door post real, sincere worship of pagan gods?  Certain petty-fogging priests might have thought so, but all evidence suggests that people who did these things in the Middle Ages were entirely sincere Christians who would have been horrified by the suggestion that they were pagans on any level.

The answer to the first question is yes, if it's done with belief. It's also good to keep in mind that gods were not the only ones that were worshiped, land spirits and powers were the main deal with Finnish tradition (although worshiping Pagan gods like Ahti, Pellon Pekko or Tapio alongside the Christian God was commonplace). I'm not sure what you mean by making potions or scratching glyphs, I'm talking about praying and giving sacrifice to these gods. My source to this is that there are still old people who have done so, some still do, it's a living tradition.

I wouldn't call those priests petty-fogging, rather they were believing exactly the way the Bible says to be the right way. That way excluded all other gods and idols, but your typical Finnish farmer would rather maximize his chances of survival and turn to whichever god, power, spirit or magic-using person they thought might be able to help them - and occasionally also pray to the Christian God as well.

I'm not sure what evidence you're talking about here, since large groups of f.ex. Icelandic people in Middle Ages still served the Norse gods. This was written in Heimskringla, which states that as decided by the þing, although Iceland would officially turn Christian those who so wished would still be allowed to serve the Norse gods instead. Many other Icelandic sources also mention this, such as Brennu-Njáls saga and Landnámabók. Besides that many sagas mention reasons to why people would convert, those often being of political nature (such as in Egils saga, where men joining a Christian king's army were required to turn Christian; they did so out of political convenience rather than any sincere belief, and Egill himself was described to use Pagan practices long after he was baptized. In the end he even hid his silver by magical means, killing two slaves as blood sacrifice for it to stay hidden forever). All evidence I have points to Icelanders of Middle Age actually being completely fine with mixing the two religions.

Oooh, that's interesting!  I didn't know that!  How interesting! (Mind, my knowledge of Christianity is pretty superficial, and my knowledge of Finnish history and culture is very limited.  (Although I can tell you that lonkero was invented for the 1952 Olympics because everybody in Finland told me that when I ordered one)

You know all the right things then, lonkero is delicious!

[ChazHoosier]

The era when people tries to hedge their bets with both religions was a very narrow transition period.  By the middle ages there just weren't any pagans left.  People might have cast as spell or two, but it wasn't because of any commitment to Thor.

[Vafhudr]

Is making a potion or scratching a glyph on the door post real, sincere worship of pagan gods?  Certain petty-fogging priests might have thought so, but all evidence suggests that people who did these things in the Middle Ages were entirely sincere Christians who would have been horrified by the suggestion that they were pagans on any level.

It might not be worship, but it's certainly acknowledgment.

As for "sincere" christians, well, as far as I can tell, the practices of middle age christians would probably strike many of us post-reformation/counter-reformation people as considerably pagan. People didn't just throw away the old gods and the old ways just because a priest showed up and told them it was evil. The more ostentatious forms of worship were suppressed, but folk practices endured, and through them, one could argue so did the belief in the ancient gods - or at least, the idea that you could appeal to other powers than the christian God - be they spirit or gods.

Edit: welp Laufey did this much better.