Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat

[urbicande]

The old church of Keuruu was still standing a few years before the main storyline, so Taru and Onni should definitely know what a church is. It wouldn't make sense for them not to know the former use of such a distinctive building.

Really?  I don't know most of the former uses of most of the buildings around here, distinctive or not.

(Also, Taru and Onni are Finns, not Icelandic, so even if Onni knows, he hasn't yet told Reynir)

[Laufey]

The main basis of my incredulity is that even the most uneducated Norse Christian knew what paganism was after centuries of Christianity, so I don't see why a Y90 pagan wouldn't at least know about Christianity and have a vague idea of what its symbols looked like.

Not quite correct. Most Norse Christians of the past thought they knew what paganism was like though: evil, sinful, wrong, occasionally deserving of death... while continuing its traditions. A Norse Christian would perform some pagan rites without considering the act pagan at all, or themselves a pagan for that matter. Priests of course would firmly disagree.

As for symbols it doesn't take long for a symbol to change its meaning, just look at what happened to the swastika during WW2.

Which would be less of an issue if Christianity just wasn't an issue in the story line.  That's my reason for assuming that it won't end up being a big part of the plot.  The more Christianity is made a part of the main plot, the more this ignorance cries to be explained—and really, is that the story we want to hear?  Is that the story Minna has been building up to?

The first question can only be answered for one's own self, but personally I would very much want to hear that particular story. I find all the religious aspects of SSSS its drawing point and it feels good to see one's own group (in my case Fennopagans) represented in a realistic, serious and well researched manner. As for the latter question... we'll have to wait and see, but my experience with Minna is that she'll always surprise the reader somehow.

[ChazHoosier]

It's pretty easy for me to guess what used to be a bank, a school, a warehouse, or a church because all of those buildings tend to have highly distinctive architecture.  Maybe it doesn't seem strange to you—we all have a difference perspective, but for others it's just a big stretch and could use a explanation if it's going to be brought up at all.  Do you really think people will ever look at this condominium going up in Boston and be confused what it used to be?

[ChazHoosier]

Not quite correct. Most Norse Christians of the past thought they knew what paganism was like though: evil, sinful, wrong, occasionally deserving of death... while continuing its traditions. A Norse Christian would perform some pagan rites without considering the act pagan at all, or themselves a pagan for that matter. Priests of course would firmly disagree.

That's rather different.  Norse Christians had a distorted idea of what paganism was, but they still knew that it existed.  They didn't see Thor's hammer or Odin's raven and look terribly confused.  It would make far more sense if Reynir was merely unfamiliar with the content of Christianity rather than being (apparently) completely surprised by its existence.

Once again, it's not impossible.  It's just that there is a story there depending on where the plot is going.

The first question can only be answered for one's own self, but personally I would very much want to hear that particular story. I find all the religious aspects of SSSS its drawing point and it feels good to see one's own group (in my case Fennopagans) represented in a realistic, serious and well researched manner. As for the latter question... we'll have to wait and see, but my experience with Minna is that she'll always surprise the reader somehow.

Well, it's been billed as a light-hearted adventure rather than an account of the existential battle between Christianity and paganism.  I would just be surprised if the story went that was is all.

[|Yucca|]

Really?  I don't know most of the former uses of most of the buildings around here, distinctive or not.

(Also, Taru and Onni are Finns, not Icelandic, so even if Onni knows, he hasn't yet told Reynir)

Maybe it's just my profession taking over, but like ChazHoosier said it's quite easy to tell the former (or current if unchanged) use of a building by its architectural style. Also, we have seen that the Finns have a working National Archive with different research branches, no need to assume they aren't also interested in built environment and its history.

It also doesn't make much sense for Taru not to have told Tuuri what a church was if she did know, though.

Like Windfighter said, I read their discussion being about different buildings in each panel. After all, the scenery is vastly different from panel to panel. The concept of a church seems to be clear for both of them at least to some extent.

[ChazHoosier]

I suppose I've made it clear enough why I find Reynir's confusion to be strange and I'm verging on being a contrarian.  I won't belabor it any further for now. 

[Róisín]

I wonder if Christianity in Iceland has been somewhat suppressed because the return of magic brought with it an awareness that the pagan gods were incontrovertibly real, whereas there was no such proof for Christianity?

Also, as Laufey said, it's good to see some of the pagan faiths represented. There have been some interesting discussions on the subject in the mini church thread.

And thanks, everybody, for being courteous in the debate!

[JoB]

On the other hand the building they're calling a church... I think it looks more like a factory, so they probably don't know churches all that well xD

It is a(n existing) factory. Minna commented that she changed it to have two chimneys to make it more obvious that it is not what Taru calls it.

[Vafhudr]

I swear the dream church looked hella more gloomy last time we saw it.

[Eris]

I swear the dream church looked hella more gloomy last time we saw it.

It was certainly darker! Are there day and night in dream space? If so, what causes one or the other? I wonder.

[Minutia_R]

Well, Taru knows the word church, but when pressed she says it's "a big house of some kind."  So I would say that the evidence ponts more in the direction of people in Y90 not knowing what a church is, particularly among the younger generation.  Tuuri didn't even know the word, and while she's lived in pretty remote areas, she's also a fairly well-educated person, and curious about the past.  If it was general knowledge, she would probably have it.


Actaully, Tuuri (from what I see at least) isn't asking what a church is, she's asking what that other building they're passing is, to which Taru answers "A... big house. Of some kind." so I think both of them know what a church is. On the other hand the building they're calling a church... I think it looks more like a factory, so they probably don't know churches all that well xD

Huh, you're ... probably right.  That is really not how I read that page the first three or four times I saw it, though.  Weird.

[ChazHoosier]

I wonder if Christianity in Iceland has been somewhat suppressed because the return of magic brought with it an awareness that the pagan gods were incontrovertibly real, whereas there was no such proof for Christianity?

That's been my assumption—something about the illness brought magic back into the world, and Lutheran pastors didn't have anything to show for it.  It's what happened in Redtail's Dream. Surely most people in the very least remember grandma singing Christmas carols, though!

[ChazHoosier]

I swear the dream church looked hella more gloomy last time we saw it.

Every church is super creepy when you're alone in it during the night!

[Aierdome]

So with the new page here, we now know that Onni knows about Christianity and churches, and Reynir has seen the buildings, even if he didn't connect the dots here. Now, anybody willing to guess what is it that he's seen? I'm betting on the broken window from his previous vision of the church.

[Róisín]

That or the minister. Whose Haven it probably is.