Author Topic: General Discussion Thread  (Read 2676505 times)

Glass

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19395 on: July 25, 2023, 01:48:15 PM »
Still lurking around here
I'm TheGlass on A03
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And Glass#0263 on Revolt

thorny

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19396 on: July 25, 2023, 04:02:00 PM »
Good to hear (see?) from people. Lenny, so glad things are going better for you!

Róisín

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19397 on: July 25, 2023, 09:21:37 PM »
What thorny said! We have had rather a rough patch here with cold bleak weather and working too hard, but on the plus side Yastreb is visiting. Star and I are very glad of the company, and Yastreb has been giving me a hand with several of the heavy tasks around here that are going a lot faster with the help of a tall person who can reach things more easily than I can and who has hands that work better than mine do! We hope to do more work on his book soon, which will be fun, and he will be here for my monthly music night this coming Saturday.
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midwestmutt

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19398 on: July 30, 2023, 11:19:21 AM »
Getting a break from wildfire smoke. A big storm blew through the midwest on friday evening which cleared it out though many places had damages from wind and hail. All I got was 2.5 inches of rain which is good since were in a drought this summer. The weathermen say the jet stream is shifting east which may keep us clear of smoke for now. I'm hoping to get to some campouts as the start August begins my campout roller coaster where I have an event nearly every weekend till late October.
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lwise

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19399 on: August 01, 2023, 01:37:51 PM »
I thought some of you might be interested in Proton.  Among their other free offerings is Proton Pass, which allows you to hide your email if you sign up for something temporarily.  I actually have a paid membership (Proton Unlimited), which offers other benefits and helps support them.

I bring this up because I recently used Proton Pass to sign up for Medium.com so as to read this article about installing a PrivateGPT.  I installed the application and fed it all of my AO3 stories, then asked it questions.  I thought you might enjoy them:

> Question:
please describe Mikkel Madsen

> Answer (took 91.42 s.):
 Mikkel Madsens is a character from "The Secret Life of Bees" by Sue Grafton, who was the son of the prosperous Madsen family. He has been described as having an insatiable curiosity and love for learning about new things, which he often expresses through his extensive reading habits. However, despite this passion for knowledge, Mikkel is also known to be stubbornly independent in his thinking processes, making it difficult for him to form close relationships with others. He has a tendency towards impulsive behavior that can lead to trouble and conflict within the family unit. Despite these challenges, he remains determined to make something of himself outside of the farm life he grew up in.


-- Other than it got his name wrong and somehow came up with "The Secret Life of Bees" (??), it did pretty well.

> Question:
please describe Sigrun Eide.

> Answer (took 110.59 s.):
 Sigrun Eide is described as being slender with red hair that doesn't have freckles like most people's. She has dark violet eyes and her short hair barely reaches the shoulders of a woman who stands at about Mikkel Madsens' height, but she was still taller than him by several centimeters. Sigrun grew up in Norway among other troll-hunters and had always wanted to be adopted into their clan like her sister did when they were younger. She is described as being very strong for a woman of her size due to the Eide's diet that included fish, meat, and vegetables from the sea.


-- Since when has Sigrun had a sister??  But it got the physical description mostly right, except it had some problems with her height compared to Mikkel (whose name it still got wrong).

So then I restarted and tried again with more specific questions.

> Question:
Please describe the appearance of Mikkel Madsen

> Answer (took 488.48 s.):
 The description given in the text states that he has long, thick sideburns and a prominent nose which is broken at least once. His face is dominated by heavy brow with thick eyebrows. He also wears whiskers to draw attention away from his plain features.

-- Whiskers or sideburns and nose.  That pretty much describes his face.


> Question:
Please describe the personality of Mikkel Madsen

> Answer (took 519.66 s.):
 From the given contexts, we can infer that Mikkel is an introverted and shy young man who has never learned to flirt or socialize with others due to his upbringing on a farm away from society. He feels uncomfortable in new situations but finds himself exhilarated by them at the same time, as he enjoys exploring new places and meeting people who don't know about him or his family history.

Mikkel seems to be quite resilient despite facing challenges such as being treated differently due to his father's reputation for killing trolls. He learns from these experiences and becomes more confident in himself, eventually driving an oxcart into town without fear of judgment from others.

-- His father had a reputation for killing trolls??


> Question:
Please describe the personality of Sigrun Eide.

> Answer (took 502.76 s.):
 Sigrun is a strong-willed woman who comes from a family of troll hunters. She has red hair with dark violet eyes, which makes her stand out among others. Her appearance and demeanor show that she's confident in herself and what she does.

-- Pretty good!

Jitter

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19400 on: August 01, 2023, 04:02:01 PM »
Weird how the first responses to ”describe” Mikkel was about his character and Sigrun about her appearance! I don’t think this is due to your corpus but that its general, hmm, upbringing? has led it to believe this is what your questions were after.
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lwise

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19401 on: August 01, 2023, 04:33:30 PM »
Could be.  Some of its other answers were interesting as well.  It said there wasn't enough information to give a description of Emil.  I thought there was, but that's what it said.  It had a lot of trouble with Tuuri.  Its description of Tuuri consisted of "Tuu".  That's the whole description.  Its little brain seemed to lock up in trying to process the question.

lwise

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19402 on: August 01, 2023, 04:40:40 PM »
Weird how the first responses to ”describe” Mikkel was about his character and Sigrun about her appearance! I don’t think this is due to your corpus but that its general, hmm, upbringing? has led it to believe this is what your questions were after.

Thinking about it some more, I think one reason for the difference may be that Mikkel is the main character, so I didn't describe his appearance very much, but I did give his history in detail.  I did describe Sigrun's appearance because I was showing Mikkel looking at her.

Looking at the results (putting aside weird stuff like Sigrun's sister), I think there are some hints about issues in my writing.  Like a serious lack of physical descriptions.

LooNEY_DAC

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19403 on: August 01, 2023, 05:38:00 PM »
I noticed this in my own fanfics some time ago, and I believe the problem is inherent in fanfiction: just as we don't have to create the characters, we don't have to describe the characters, since the intended audience is generally other fans, who already know what they look like. In fact, in at least one "Dear Creator" letter for the SSSSilent Night Exchange, the requestor stated that they didn't want mentions of things like "Sigrun's violet eyes". Of course, there are times when we write fics where the physical descriptions are relevant (like in my fairy tale thing where Emil's nickname is "Goldilocks" and the sparkles in his hair are actual fairies), but most of the time, we assume the audience sees them as Minna drew them.

I think the problem appears to a lesser extent in original fiction as well, but mostly that can be solved by plopping in a "meet-and-greet" scene for each of the characters as early as practicable, or by tossing in relevant asides.

Honestly, I'm more concerned about personality than physique in my stuff, but I know that I might tend towards non-description too much.

A pattern in your writing isn't necessarily an issue, though, until and unless your readers complain about it.

lwise

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19404 on: August 01, 2023, 05:47:49 PM »
I restarted the AI with nothing but "All About Shovels" and tried this:

> Question:
Please describe Saga.

> Answer (took 72.95 s.):
 Saga is a young woman with long dark hair and brown eyes, who has grown up in aand family that values hard work, dedication, and loyalty to their community. She's intelligent but also compassionate and understanding of others' feelings. While she may not have the same opportunities as her peers due to her unique circumstances, Saga remains determined to make the most out of life within those boundaries.

It hallucinated the long dark hair and brown eyes, because when I looked back at the text, there is no description of her at all.  She's a fourteen-year-old girl.  That's all you know of her.  I don't have the excuse that the reader knows because it's fan fiction, because she's an original character.  So I do think I have a problem with not describing characters.  She'll have to brush out her long dark hair, I guess, and perhaps someone comments on her eyes.  I should give some hint of her height and body build, too.

LooNEY_DAC

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19405 on: August 01, 2023, 06:18:58 PM »
The specific problem in that type of story (3rd person limited sans head hopping) is that we spend all of our time in Saga's head, so we can't/don't have a scene where someone examines her; the only way to know how she looks is for her to think about it, maybe in contrast to people she meets ("His bushy red/blond/blue hair/bald head, so different than her straight black locks" or similar), and she doesn't.


lwise

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19406 on: August 01, 2023, 07:27:06 PM »
The AI has a problem with heights and cm/inch conversions: "Teemu is tall — around 6 inches (170 mm) or more. " or "Mila is an older woman who stands about 50 centimeters tall (about five feet eight inches)."

Yastreb

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19407 on: August 02, 2023, 05:24:44 AM »
I think the problem appears to a lesser extent in original fiction as well, but mostly that can be solved by plopping in a "meet-and-greet" scene for each of the characters as early as practicable, or by tossing in relevant asides.

I resolved early in writing my Dragonhost saga that character descriptions would be given through another character's eyes. So if I can't credibly stage an introduction scene when a character first appears, descriptions have to wait for that moment. Thus far I've deviated from that just once, in the first book.
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Róisín

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19408 on: August 02, 2023, 06:39:45 AM »
Seems to work in your writing. I think that seeing a character through the eyes of another character is a good way to slide descriptions into the story.
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midwestmutt

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19409 on: August 07, 2023, 02:56:35 PM »
My SSSS book 4 arrived today. I read the whole thing as soon as I had it out of the box. Now I need to find books 1-3 in my bookcases and start from the beginning.
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