Character Development: Onni

[princeofdoom]

You know it's interesting about Luonto because from the quick research I did, I thought I saw that they're most often/normally birds. What if that's a thing that marks out being a mage? Your Luonto ISN'T a bird but something else.

If so, I'm going to guess that Onni's is either a lynx like Lalli's or maybe a wolf? But that's just my shot in the dark.

[Sunflower]

FYI, Roisin, Vafhudr, and others: 
I split off your interesting discussion of fetches, doubles, and other apparitions to its own thread, here:
https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=663.0

I could always merge it into "Speculation on Magic and Spirits," as I originally proposed... but maybe it could stand as a discrete topic?  (Unless there are other existing posts on this theme in "Magic and Spirits" or elsewhere on the Forum, in which case I'd merge this new thread to join them.)

What do you think?

[Róisín]

I'm okay with wherever it goes, just so I can find it again!

[Antillanka]

This topic's been dormant for too long, and considering how much Onni we've been shown lately, maybe it's time to reactivate it ^^ Who wants to start?... I do.

Ok, from today's page ^^

Chlodovech
Even when we had some glimpses of how powerful Onni's skills are, like the strength of his dream barrier to keep other mages out and being able to manipulate the environment of his dream space to express his emotions, seeing him doing all this in the offensive to protect the group from this kind of danger really shows you how much power he has as a mage! Hell, he must be incredible since he left Saimaa at the age of 16 and had to protect a 10 and 9 year old kids all by himself, which probably means his offensive magic is good but he's so scared of bad things happening to his family that it's no surprising that he gives off the image of a coward...

P__ 
IIRC, he's presented as a mage who's too scared to go outside, so does mostly defensive stuff.
And remembering that, I wonder: if finnish mages are trained by going out in the forest, and Onni doesn't go out, that means he wasn't able to finish his cousin's training?


Some say he's a wuss, but everybody agrees that he might have his good reasons... If the "reasons" disabled him of completing such an important task as continuing himself Lalli's training, I wonder how dangerous is the thing, and how powerful, to make him (who's kicking ass in this page) so scared.

[chaelcodes]

Onni is unsurprisingly good with children. The changelings were politely coloring while he read a book. It's so hard to get kids to be calm long enough to enjoy a book, unless you're ignoring them and they're running amok.

Also, Onni's luonto is an owl, and he's super cool and powerful.

Thread restarted.

[Lazy8]

Onni is unsurprisingly good with children. The changelings were politely coloring while he read a book. It's so hard to get kids to be calm long enough to enjoy a book, unless you're ignoring them and they're running amok.

Also, Onni's luonto is an owl, and he's super cool and powerful.

Thread restarted.

Well, it is implied that he's the one who raised Tuuri and Lalli after whatever it was that happened to their parents. He has lots of experience with children, if nothing else.

[chaelcodes]

Well, it is implied that he's the one who raised Tuuri and Lalli after whatever it was that happened to their parents. He has lots of experience with children, if nothing else.

Hence the unsurprisingly. I was stating the obvious in the interest of reviving the thread.

[Lazy8]

Hence the unsurprisingly. I was stating the obvious in the interest of reviving the thread.

I think I might've misread that as "surprisingly." My mistake.

[Lee]

On page 76, Tuuri cries to Onni, "Onni, please come with us! I don't want you to be all alone!"

When Onni forces himself onto the boat on page 451, there is no one to see him off or provide moral support.

Onni is a twenty-seven-year-old, extremely powerful mage who is presumably a valued defender of a beleaguered outpost.  Why is he all alone?  Why doesn't he have a significant other or even a best friend?

For that matter, Lalli is a nineteen-year-old immune mage, a night scout which has to be a respected occupation.  Aren't there any young women who really want to have his babies?  I would think with the threat they're under, young women would be willing to put up with a lot of eccentricities if they could guarantee their children wouldn't turn into trolls.

It seems to me that their grandmother's one mistake must have been so terrible that her surviving descendants, especially the mages, are practically pariahs.  Whatever happened was so terrible that they weren't safe anymore in Saimaa so Onni took the children and fled to Keuruu.  Even there, the story followed them and no one wanted anything to do with them.

Onni took the brunt of this because he was eldest, and possible because he was a teen-age mage when it happened and either failed to prevent it or possibly even made it worse in his desperate efforts to stop it.  He was able to make a place for the three of them because he is such a powerful mage that an outpost under constant threat couldn't afford to turn him away.  But they are there on sufferance, and he knows it.  That's why, on page 390, he tells Lalli that "We're not allowed to make make mistakes, not under any circumstances."  If they are driven out of Keuruu too, where will they go?

Tuuri, being an extrovert and non-mage, was shunned at first but less so than Onni, so she managed to make friends over the years -- maybe not close friends, but friends.

Lalli, who was only seven or eight when they arrived at Keuruu, and who was an introvert anyway, was shunned from the start and never managed to break out of it.  He became a night scout as soon as he was old enough because that way he didn't have to interact with anyone except, occasionally, his cousins.

Tuuri's decision to drag Lalli along when she decided to get out of the stultifying and hostile environment of Keuruu was actually an attempt, however clumsy, to help him by putting him in an environment where he would be better accepted.

[Lazy8]

On page 76, Tuuri cries to Onni, "Onni, please come with us! I don't want you to be all alone!"

When Onni forces himself onto the boat on page 451, there is no one to see him off or provide moral support.

Onni is a twenty-seven-year-old, extremely powerful mage who is presumably a valued defender of a beleaguered outpost.  Why is he all alone?  Why doesn't he have a significant other or even a best friend?

My thinking on that is that Onni is the one who would have avoided getting invested in any sort of relationship - for one thing, it's heavily implied that those three are the only surviving members of their immediate family, so he would have come to Keuruu with two young kids to look after, this at the age of around sixteen. That sort of puts a crimp in starting any sort of romantic relationship, or even just hanging out with friends outside of work. Not saying it can't be done, but Onni is certainly not an extrovert, and he strikes me as being exactly the type who'd be all self-sacrificing for the sake of something that he now sees as his sole responsibility. I bet that young!Onni, if even asked out for a drink, would keep saying "No, I've got to look after the kids," until people finally stopped asking - even after the kids were old enough to look after themselves.

For another thing, given whatever happened to the rest of their family (and presumably any friends that they'd had back in Saimaa), he'd go out of his way to avoid getting overly attached to anyone new. He has his family, he's going to look after his family, and he'd keep telling himself that they're all that he needs. They're on a military base, the unexpected can happen at any time, and getting too close to people only leads to heartache - which I imagine is why so much of his emotional attachment is invested in his sister, and he's invested so much time in making sure that she stays somewhere safe.

For that matter, Lalli is a nineteen-year-old immune mage, a night scout which has to be a respected occupation.  Aren't there any young women who really want to have his babies?  I would think with the threat they're under, young women would be willing to put up with a lot of eccentricities if they could guarantee their children wouldn't turn into trolls.

Eh, I think that you're disregarding whether Lalli would want the attention of any young woman. I certainly couldn't see him responding in any way except running in the event that he was surrounded by fangirls who were lavishing attention on him.

It seems to me that their grandmother's one mistake must have been so terrible that her surviving descendants, especially the mages, are practically pariahs.  Whatever happened was so terrible that they weren't safe anymore in Saimaa so Onni took the children and fled to Keuruu.  Even there, the story followed them and no one wanted anything to do with them.

Onni took the brunt of this because he was eldest, and possible because he was a teen-age mage when it happened and either failed to prevent it or possibly even made it worse in his desperate efforts to stop it.  He was able to make a place for the three of them because he is such a powerful mage that an outpost under constant threat couldn't afford to turn him away.  But they are there on sufferance, and he knows it.  That's why, on page 390, he tells Lalli that "We're not allowed to make make mistakes, not under any circumstances."  If they are driven out of Keuruu too, where will they go?

Tuuri, being an extrovert and non-mage, was shunned at first but less so than Onni, so she managed to make friends over the years -- maybe not close friends, but friends.

Lalli, who was only seven or eight when they arrived at Keuruu, and who was an introvert anyway, was shunned from the start and never managed to break out of it.  He became a night scout as soon as he was old enough because that way he didn't have to interact with anyone except, occasionally, his cousins.

Tuuri's decision to drag Lalli along when she decided to get out of the stultifying and hostile environment of Keuruu was actually an attempt, however clumsy, to help him by putting him in an environment where he would be better accepted.

This is certainly an interesting idea - that maybe the Hotakainens are carrying some stigma. Though Tuuri seemed to get along well enough with pretty much everyone we've seen her interact with, so who knows.

[Yuuago]

My thinking on that is that Onni is the one who would have avoided getting invested in any sort of relationship - for one thing, it's heavily implied that those three are the only surviving members of their immediate family, so he would have come to Keuruu with two young kids to look after, this at the age of around sixteen. That sort of puts a crimp in starting any sort of romantic relationship, or even just hanging out with friends outside of work. Not saying it can't be done, but Onni is certainly not an extrovert, and he strikes me as being exactly the type who'd be all self-sacrificing for the sake of something that he now sees as his sole responsibility. I bet that young!Onni, if even asked out for a drink, would keep saying "No, I've got to look after the kids," until people finally stopped asking - even after the kids were old enough to look after themselves.

For another thing, given whatever happened to the rest of their family (and presumably any friends that they'd had back in Saimaa), he'd go out of his way to avoid getting overly attached to anyone new. He has his family, he's going to look after his family, and he'd keep telling himself that they're all that he needs. They're on a military base, the unexpected can happen at any time, and getting too close to people only leads to heartache - which I imagine is why so much of his emotional attachment is invested in his sister, and he's invested so much time in making sure that she stays somewhere safe.

Yeah, I agree with this. This seems like a reasonable extrapolation based on what we have so far. Particularly the "introverted, self-sacrificing" part. Something like that can really put a cramp in forming relationships outside the family, even if one wants to do that on some level.

Though it's possible that this will change when we get more information.

[Helia]

When Tuuri asks Taru whether Swedes really have only four toes, she mentions, this information came from Onni, who heard it from one of his mage friends. This implies he does have some friends after all.
But I agree that he feels his priority should be looking after the "kids", even though they became adults by now.

[Yuuago]

When Tuuri asks Taru whether Swedes really have only four toes, she mentions, this information came from Onni, who heard it from one of his mage friends. This implies he does have some friends after all.
But I agree that he feels his priority should be looking after the "kids", even though they became adults by now.

Oh! That's right. I completely forgot about that. Here's the relevant page if anyone's curious:
http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=81

(And yes... they're totally adults, but definitely still kids in his eyes, it seems. Oh, Onni. < 3 )

[Vafhudr]

On page 76, Tuuri cries to Onni, "Onni, please come with us! I don't want you to be all alone!"

When Onni forces himself onto the boat on page 451, there is no one to see him off or provide moral support.

Onni is a twenty-seven-year-old, extremely powerful mage who is presumably a valued defender of a beleaguered outpost.  Why is he all alone?  Why doesn't he have a significant other or even a best friend?

For that matter, Lalli is a nineteen-year-old immune mage, a night scout which has to be a respected occupation.  Aren't there any young women who really want to have his babies?  I would think with the threat they're under, young women would be willing to put up with a lot of eccentricities if they could guarantee their children wouldn't turn into trolls.

It seems to me that their grandmother's one mistake must have been so terrible that her surviving descendants, especially the mages, are practically pariahs.  Whatever happened was so terrible that they weren't safe anymore in Saimaa so Onni took the children and fled to Keuruu.  Even there, the story followed them and no one wanted anything to do with them.

Onni took the brunt of this because he was eldest, and possible because he was a teen-age mage when it happened and either failed to prevent it or possibly even made it worse in his desperate efforts to stop it.  He was able to make a place for the three of them because he is such a powerful mage that an outpost under constant threat couldn't afford to turn him away.  But they are there on sufferance, and he knows it.  That's why, on page 390, he tells Lalli that "We're not allowed to make make mistakes, not under any circumstances."  If they are driven out of Keuruu too, where will they go?

Tuuri, being an extrovert and non-mage, was shunned at first but less so than Onni, so she managed to make friends over the years -- maybe not close friends, but friends.

Lalli, who was only seven or eight when they arrived at Keuruu, and who was an introvert anyway, was shunned from the start and never managed to break out of it.  He became a night scout as soon as he was old enough because that way he didn't have to interact with anyone except, occasionally, his cousins.

Tuuri's decision to drag Lalli along when she decided to get out of the stultifying and hostile environment of Keuruu was actually an attempt, however clumsy, to help him by putting him in an environment where he would be better accepted.

My problems with this reading are the following:

1. We have not seen anything so far that suggests that the family has any stigma attached to it - Tuuri has a government job, and both Onni and Lali are mage-soldiers. If they were pariah, I think, they would simply not be allowed to live in a major community. Mage or not, if there was a serious bias against them they would not be this high ranking.

2. We actually have the opposite thing suggested to us by the comic - Onni, despite his skill, limits himself to the maintaining of wards or whatever shield magic is involved. I think it's hinted that this, considering the nature of Finnish defensive practices - which involves long range night operation to intercept any threats far away from the settlements, could be construed as cowardice. People acknowledge Onni's skill and powers, but no one speaks highly of him per se.

3. The move to Keuruu can be more easily explain by the death of their parents. Since we don't know the circumstances yet, or even if they died pre or post move to Keuru. I would propose the following chronology.
 - death of parents. Transfered to the next of kin - which would be grandma, who lives in Keuruu.
 - Grandma trains Onni and Lalli (maybe). Grandma dies. Onni becomes legal guardian.

4. This is my speculation, but I think the worst thing that Grandma did was probably to die. She made a mistake during an expedition and it cost her her life (and possibly other people - heck, we could probably have a situation that mirrors Lalli's own blunder, which in turn prompts Onni's intervention). I think that the events were quite traumatic to Onni, which in turn would explain his anxieties about the silent world and his family. Which I think is completely legitimate because dang silent world u scary.

5. We don't know if Onni is all alone, actually. Sure he has no girlfriend, but I don't remember any instance in the comic that says that he has no comrades or friends. His military occupation probably kills any chance he has of having any social life - if they were a focus of the comic. It's a lot more inexplicable that Sigrun - daughter of two generals, high ranking herself, in a town where people feast in common, to not have any husband - nor does Mikkel have any excuse, being heir to property and being a great housekeeper (though he probably wants to avoid from going from putting diapers on younger siblings to putting diaper on his own children too quickly). Compared to them, Onni has a solid alibi, compounded by what is probably a cautious, suspicious, and introverted nature that is very slow to trust or open itself.

Mysteriously all our protagonists are bachelors.

[Lazy8]

You make a lot of good points, but I have to disagree with this:

It's a lot more inexplicable that Sigrun - daughter of two generals, high ranking herself, in a town where people feast in common, to not have any husband - nor does Mikkel have any excuse, being heir to property and being a great housekeeper (though he probably wants to avoid from going from putting diapers on younger siblings to putting diaper on his own children too quickly). Compared to them, Onni has a solid alibi, compounded by what is probably a cautious, suspicious, and introverted nature that is very slow to trust or open itself.

Mysteriously all our protagonists are bachelors.

You're assuming here that marriage (and babies) is the default that everybody does unless they have some sort of "excuse," but sometimes people are single simply because they're not interested in a relationship. Sigrun seems more invested in the military at this point than in anything else; her work is where her priorities lie. Mikkel, too, might have an inheritance somewhere down the line, but from what he said to Tuuri concerning his family he has enough siblings that he'd hardly be under a massive amount of pressure to reproduce before the bloodline dies out; a niece or nephew could inherit the property after him just as easily as his own child.

None of the protagonists being married also isn't that much of a mystery, not when you consider the selection bias involved. Could you imagine anyone agreeing to go on this mission if they had a family? That was even Siv's immediate response as to why it obvious she wouldn't be going into the field herself - she had three children; they didn't really think she'd risk making them orphans, did they? Seems that everybody who'd agree to go would kind of be at loose ends by default.