Finnish learning thread!

[Ann Marie]

Feartheviolas, my daughter liked that song so much I sent it to her choir director. 


Finnish question:  How do you add case endings to words that end in s?  Specifically in this case, how do I put vahvistus into accusative?

eta:  and my next trick, trying to be polite by using the conditional!  Um, if anyone would like to proof a (very short) letter for me, I would be forever annoyingly grateful.

[Kuuskytkolme]

It's about the Maiden of Death in the 16th runo of Kalevala (Link)

I can try to transcribe/translate it when I get back home from work, but if someone who's from a closer dialectal area to Karelia than the middle of Helsinki would like to do it before me, by all means feel free to do it.

And if Ann Marie hasn't found a proof reader for her letter by then I can do that too.

---

Se kertoo Tuonen tytöstä Kalevan 16. runossa. (Linkki)

Voin yrittää kirjoittaa sen puhtaaksi/kääntää sen kun pääsen kotiin töistä, mutta jos joku joka on lähemmältä murrealueelta Karjalaa kuin keskeltä Helsinkiä haluaa tehdä sen, kaikin mokomin tehköön.

Ja jos Ann Marie ei ole siihen mennessä löytänyt kirjeellensä tarkistajaa voin tehdä senkin.

[Ann Marie]

Ja jos Ann Marie ei ole siihen mennessä löytänyt kirjeellensä tarkistajaa voin tehdä senkin.

Kiitos, mutta Cancvas tehi vapaaehtoisesti aiempi.

[Pessi]

I can hear the words clearly for only the first part of the song (the loudspeakears of my working computer aren't good), but that far they go like this:

Tuonen tyttö mustatukka
Manalan matala neiti
souti rannan, souti toisen,
souti suurelle merelle
etsi mailta martahia
ilmalta iättömiä

Girl of Tuoni [= Death, both the land and the personification] black haired
short maiden of Manala [another name for the land of the dead, indicates also it's being under the ground: maanalainen = underground]
rowed a shore, rowed another,
rowed onto the great sea
serched the lands for the dead
the air for the ageless

Edit

Ok, it turned out the end of the song is decipherable again. As far as i can hear it goes like this:

Tuonen tyttö mustatukka
sousi rannan, sousi toisen,
sousi meidän rantuelle.

Jos mä Tuonena olisin
tahi Tuonen tyttärenä
haukuttaisin Tuonen koijut(?)
niin kuin Tuoni meidän koijut(?)
itkettäisin Tuonen lapset
niin kuin Tuoni meidän lapset.

Girl of Tuoni black haired
rowed a shore, rowed another,
rowed to our shore

If I were Tuoni
or the daughter of Tuoni
I would make the dogs(?) of Tuoni bark
as Tuoni made our dogs(?) bark,
I would make the children of Tuoni cry
as Tuoni made our children cry.

Edit 2

According to this site the song is a medieval Ingrian lament. It tells how the girl of Tuoni rows from shore to shore and comes to Meiälä, where she "pulls the linens across the doorways and the curtains over the windows and kills the master of the house". The original ending is longer, it mentions whinnying geldings and bellowing cows in addition to barking dogs and crying children.

[viola]

According to this site the song is a medieval Ingrian lament. It tells how the girl of Tuoni rows from shore to shore and comes to Meiälä, where she "pulls the linens across the doorways and the curtains over the windows and kills the master of the house". The original ending is longer, it mentions whinnying geldings and bellowing cows in addition to barking dogs and crying children.

It's so dark for such a pretty song. Wow. Thank you so much for your help!

[Pessi]

:finland: Löysin täältä inkeriläisen alkuperäisversion koko sanoituksen
:uk: I found here the whole lyrics for the Ingrian original

:finland: Tuonen tyttö musta tukka,             :uk: Girl of Tuoni black hair

Man(n)alan mat(t)ala neito,                         short maiden of Manala

Sousi rannan, sousi toisen,                          rowed a shore, rowed another

Sousi suurelle merolle,                               rowed onto the great sea

Sousi meiän rantuelle;                                rowed to our shore

Etsi maalta martahii,                                   searched the land for dead ones

Ilmalta ijättömii;                                        the air for ageless ones

Saanut ei maalta martahii,                          didn't get dead ones from the land

Ilmalt ei ijättömii.                                      from the air any ageless ones

Tuli meiän rantuelle,                                   came to our shore

Tuli Tuoni meiälään,                                   came Tuoni to meiälä (probably "our place")

Pani palttinat oville,                                   put linens at the doors

Veti verkot ikkunoille.                                pulled nets over the windows

Kuuli ohkavan olilta,                                 heard sighing(?) from the straws (beds used to be filled with straw)

Kättä peeksuvan pehuilta,                         hand being thumped(?) on the bedding straws

Voivottajan vuotehesta;                            from the bed of the moaning one.

Manitteli meiän marjan,                            Wooed our berry (away)

Tappoi talon isännän;                               killed the master of the house

Jäivät auki aitan ukset.                             open were left the doors of the granary

Tuo kun tuoni musta tukka,                      when that tuoni black hair

Man(n)alan mat(t)ala neito                       short maiden of Manala

Tyhjin tuli meiälään,                                came empty(handed) to our place

Tyhjin tullut, täysi mennyt.                      empty came, full(handed) went away

Oho mie Tuonena olisin                           Oho (if) i were Tuoni

Tali[!] Tuonen tyttärenä,                         or the daughter of Tuoni

Itkettäisin Tuonen lapset                         I would make the children of Tuoni cry

Niinkuin Tuoni meiän lapset,                   like Tuoni made our children

Hirnuttaisin Tuonen ruunat                     I would make the geldings of Tuoni whinny

Niinkuin Tuoni meiän ruunat,                  like Tuoni made our geldings

Ammuttaisin Tuonen lehmat                   I would make the cows of Tuoni bellow

Niinkuin Tuoni meiän lehmät,                 like Tuoni made our cows

Haukuttaisin Tuonen koijut                    I would make the dogs of Tuoni bark

Niinkuin Tuoni meiän koijut.                  like Tuoni made our dogs

Ei tuo Surma suorin tehnyt,                   That Death didn't make straight (=didn't find to the right place)

Tauti ei oikein osannut,                        disease didn't get (it) right (=didn't hit the right target)

Miks' tappoi talon isännän.                    Why did it kill the master of the house


Edit

Finnish question:  How do you add case endings to words that end in s?  Specifically in this case, how do I put vahvistus into accusative?

I would like to have a confirmation = haluaisin vahvistuksen

I ask for a confirmation = pyydän vahvistusta

[Guardian G.I.]

A random question from a random person - how similar are the Finnish and the Estonian languages? Can Estonians and Finns understand each other (at least somewhat) without learning the respective languages?
From what I've heard, many people in Estonia in the Soviet times used to listen to Finnish radio broadcasts, so I think they could understand Finnish a little bit.

[Krisse Kovacs]

A random question from a random person - how similar are the Finnish and the Estonian languages? Can Estonians and Finns understand each other (at least somewhat) without learning the respective languages?
From what I've heard, many people in Estonia in the Soviet times used to listen to Finnish radio broadcasts, so I think they could understand Finnish a little bit.

I heard it is kind pof like swedish-norwegian-swedish, very similar, kind of understand eachother, but still too many differences to understand clearly.

[Pessi]

When I heard Estonian for the first time it was really baffling because it sounded like Finnish but kind of weirdly spoken, and I felt I should understand but I couldn't.

My husband says that after working with Estonians for ten years he has learned the language passively well enough to understand it, but were he to learn to speak it he should need to actually study it.

[Krisse Kovacs]

can I ask some finnish people for me to translate "kakkiainen" into english? I totally know what it means, but I can't do a proper translation to english. (I use that word jokingly as my surname with Martti because I am shit)
and no clue where I could ask for it.

[Ann Marie]

Kiitti, Pessi!  The actual context was "I will forward the confirmation".  I used vahvistuksen.

Martti,
Disclaimer:  I am not Finnish, nor do I speak Finnish, but from what I do know and a dictionary, I'm pretty sure you can translate "kakkiainen" as "poopy".  I hope that helps?

[Krisse Kovacs]

Martti,
Disclaimer:  I am not Finnish, nor do I speak Finnish, but from what I do know and a dictionary, I'm pretty sure you can translate "kakkiainen" as "poopy".  I hope that helps?

well, I was wondering if finns can do a proper translation to this, I know what it means in hungarian (kakiska), but I never knew a proper translation to english. people were asking me for translation but I never could do one.
if I try to translate the hungarian, the poopy would be only the "kakis" and still the "-ka" is missing, something similar in finnish, but I don't know finnish well to do it.
(I love using it as surname, becuase I am so shitty xD)

[Ann Marie]

Hum.  So what does the "ka" in Hungarian mean?

Honestly not sure there's a more complete meaning in English.

Interesting no Finns have chimed in.  Maybe poop is considered particularly vulgar there?

[Krisse Kovacs]

Hum.  So what does the "ka" in Hungarian mean?

Honestly not sure there's a more complete meaning in English.

Interesting no Finns have chimed in.  Maybe poop is considered particularly vulgar there?

well, the hungarian word is kind of childish, very childish.
the -ka (or -ke) endings in hungarian, is something that makes the thing cuter, english has no such thing. for name it is like adding "little" before the name, but still cuter and still not same...... honestly I have no clue how to translate it. this is the only way how I saw it translated.......
like
Mátyás -> Matyi -> Matyika
Matthew -> Mattie -> little Mattie (kind of)

the kakiska in hungarian is like saying "little poopy"...... or something.

I dunno how finnish actually works so I can't tell the extra things in the end and what they kinda mean.

[Cancvas]

Ann Maries translation to English was spot on. Not much add to it. Word "poop" taught to children is "kakka" and then ad some cases (I'll leave that so somebody else, if needed) and you end up as description of a person (not so much a thing) which is poopy. Expression is difficult to use in mean manner. Could be used for small children in friendly way if they are dirty, with thing it self or otherwise.

For literally being soiled with poop (adjective), you would be "kakkainen". 

-C