Finnish learning thread!

[viola]

There's no one word for please in Finnish, and the usual phrase "ole hyvä" (lit. transl. "be good") may even come across badly if used in normal speech since it may sound overtly polite/condescending. Finns use conditional instead to mark politeness in requests, so:

Can you help me with this? = Autatko minua tässä/voitko auttaa minua tässä?
Can you please help me with this? = Auttaisitko minua tässä? (conditional)

Pass me that. = Ojenna minulle tuo.
Please pass me that. = Ojentaisitko minulle tuon? (conditional)

Icelandic works with the same idea by the way ("Geturðu/gætirðu hjálpað mér... geturðu/gætirðu réttað mér..."), and similarly you can use both the polite and the less polite versions in daily speech, especially when talking to people you know. Politeness is not too hard in Finnish as long as you remember to avoid trying to be polite.

Uh, it made more sense when I was thinking of it than when I wrote it down...

No that makes perfect sense. To me at least. Kiitos!

[Pessi]

:finland: Voi myös sanoa "ole kiltti ja auta".

:uk: You can also say "be kind and help".

:finland: Yritän juuri opettaa näitä asioita viisivuotiaalleni. Siis että kun hän haluaa vaikka leivän, oikea tapa ei ole äyskäistä "anna leipä!" vaan kysyä "saisinko leivän" tai edes "saanko leivän".

:uk: I'm just trying to teach these things to my five year old. Like when he wants a sandwich, the right way is not to bark "give sandwich!" but to ask "could I have a sandwich" or at least "can I have a sandwich".

:finland: Suomen kielessä ei muuten ole erikseen sanoja anteeksipyynnölle, kun on esim. loukannut jotakuta, ja anteeksipyynnölle, kun haluaa vaikkapa ohittaa jonkun kapeassa käytävässä. Molemmissa tilanteissa sanotaan "anteeksi".

:uk: Finnish language btw doesn't have separate words for saying sorry like when you have hurt someone's feelings and saying excuse me like when you want to get past someone in a narrow passage. In both situations you say "anteeksi".

[Ann Marie]

Finns use conditional instead to mark politeness in requests

Ohhh that is so helpful!

Politeness is not too hard in Finnish as long as you remember to avoid trying to be polite.

Um...

:finland: Voi myös sanoa "ole kiltti ja auta".
:uk: You can also say "be kind and help".

...I see what you  mean.   

[Kuuskytkolme]

Tietysti aina voi olla todella kohtelias ja yhdistää konditionaalin ja ole kiltin ja sanoa "Olisitko kiltti ja sulkisit ikkunan?"

Of course you can always be very polite and combine the conditional and ole kiltti and say "Would you be kind and close the window?"

[Pessi]

:finland: Menee kyllä jo aikalailla muodollisen kielen puolelle siinä tapauksessa. Väärä äänensävy vielä, niin tuon voi jo tulkita lieväksi moitteeksi siitä, ettei ihminen ole itse älynnyt sulkea ikkunaa. Tietysti "Olisitko niin ystävällinen että sulkisit ikkunan" on jo melkein suora moite

:uk: Goes quite far to the area of formal language in that case. Use the wrong tone with that and it can be understood as a slight reproof for the person not realizing her/himself that the window should be closed. Of course "would you be so kind as to close the window" is already almost pure reproof

[Ann Marie]

Of course "would you be so kind as to close the window" is already almost pure reproof

Herranjestas.  Everything I say is going to be taken as a passive-aggressive dig.  ...Oh well. 

*resigned to being identified as an ugly american*

[Pessi]

:finland: Eikä ole, Ann Marie =D Sinun kohdallasi ihmiset kuulevat, ettet ole syntyperäinen suomalainen, ja olettavat, että näin sinut on opetettu puhumaan: kauniisti ja kohteliaasti - varsinkin, kun puhut hyvin todennäköisesti korrektia yleiskieltä etkä puhekieltä.

:uk: No it isn't Ann Marie =D In your case people will hear you are not born Finnish and assume this is how you've been taught to speak: nicely and politely - especially since you probably speak correct standard language instead of colloquial language.

[Bobriha]

And another one question about politeness. Definition between sinä (or any colloquial word for 2nd person singular) and te - in which situations which pronoun Finns think is appropriate?
Say, in Russian, by etiquette, one should say Вы (Vy) (which is 2nd person plural) to any person they are not gotten a permission to say ты (2nd person singular) from, regardless of age (well, maybe except very tiny children - there are not so many people who can act all formal and cold in front of cute 5 or 10 years old's), gender or social status.
As far as I know, the situation is different in Finnish?

[Laufey]

The plural you (te) is the polite option, but it also sounds old-fashioned and is barely in use anymore. I would use it for old people but not for anyone my parents' age or younger, and if anyone addressed me as "te" it would feel unnecessarily polite and - well - just plain weird.

[Pessi]

The plural you (te) is the polite option, but it also sounds old-fashioned and is barely in use anymore.

:finland: Käyttöympäristöt nykyään: armeija, kaikkein virallisimmat tilaisuudet tyyliin presidentin vastaanotto ja asiakaspalvelutilanteet, joissa asiakas on vanha (monet vanhoistakin kyllä pyytävät sinuttelemaan) tai jotka tapahtuvat jossain ns. luksusliikkeessä, jossa yritetään luoda jonkinlaista hienostunutta ilmapiiriä.

:uk: Environments where used nowadays: army, the most formal events like a presidential reception and customer service situations where the customer is old (though many old people too ask to be called you) or which happen in some so called luxury shop where some kind of refined atmosphere is being aimed at.

[Ann Marie]

kun puhut hyvin todennäköisesti korrektia turmeltu yleiskieltä etkä puhekieltä.

you probably speak correct mangled standard language instead of colloquial language.

Fixed that for you.   

[Pessi]

:finland: Ann Marie, harva suomalainenkaan osaa noin vain puhua täysin virheetöntä yleiskieltä. =)

:uk: Ann Marie, few Finns either can speak totally flawless standard language just like that =)

:finland: Bobriha, olenko ymmärtänyt oikein, että Venäjällä vain läheisiä ystäviä kutsutaan etunimellä, muista pitää sen lisäksi käyttää vähintään isännimeä? Ja että Venäjällä asuville ulkomaalaisillekin yleensä muodostetaan enemmin tai myöhemmin isännimi heidän kanssaan tekemisissä olevien toimesta, jotta jokapäiväinen kanssakäyminen olisi sujuvampaa?

:uk: Bobriha, is it as I've come to understand, that in Russia only near friends are called by first names, for others at least the patronym must be added? And that foreigners living in Russia usually get a patronym made for them sooner or later by those who associate with them just to make the everyday communications smoother?

[Bobriha]

Pessi, well, it should be so, but lately ways of addressing people have became more free. Of course, we will call elder people (if they are not siblings, but rarely even if they are) by their first name+patronymic. Between same agers we will mostly call each other by first name alone. In some places, like old universities, first name+patronymic may still rule, though.

I haven't met much foreigners, but I believe standard way to address a person from abroad is господин/госпожа (gospodin/gospozha ≈ Herra/Rouva)+surname, if formal, or by first name if less formal. Making artificial patronymics sounds really old fashioned, like something from L. Tolstoy's times . That far in the past even close friends often called each other by first name+patronymic.

Calling a person by surname alone while speaking to said person is impolite and may be even considered as an offense. Though, sometimes close friends call so each other in a jokingly manner.

(And, just to make it clear, I myself am not from Russia. I was born and live in Northern Kazakhstan. It's an area with big Russian population and with the strong influence of Russian culture.)

[Pessi]

:finland: Kiitos informaatiosta samoin kuin selvennyksestä. Olemme niin kansainvälinen yhteisö, että välillä on hyvin vaikea muistaa, mistä kukakin on kotoisin.

:uk: Thank you for the information as well as the clarification. We are such an international community that it's sometimes very hard to remember where everyone hails from.

[viola]

Hello! I am back with more random Finnish questions. *waves at all the really dedicated people learning Finnish*

I have fallen in love with this song (the harmonies are to die for) and I was wondering if someone could tell me what they are singing about. I know it has something to do with death, but I was unable to find the lyrics anywhere. Not knowing when one word starts and another begins, I need some help, so if there is someone who could maybe write down what they are saying and help translate it I would be really really grateful. Kiitos!

(also you guys should all look up Kardemimmit they make beautiful music)