Survivor communities outside the known world

[Vafhudr]

I think the Finns have already more than enough to deal with in terms of Finnish trolls and beasts.

Trolls don't seem to venture outside of their nest/hives. If they did, humanity would have simply not survived. I don't think any settlement has been attacked. It is the humans who are on the offensive and seek fights with roving beasts and pockets of trolls. Trolls seem more than happy to ignore the remnants of human presence. They are probably not smart enough for that anyway.

[kapitod]

But that is a major point towards the viability of a survivor community.  If you are far enough away from an uncleaned settlement then your community can survive so long as resources hold out; hence places in Siberia, Canada, Brazil, the Pacific, the Rockies, Africa, and even Scotland could all have held out because they're isolated enough.  If trolls move, we're all boned; but if they're settled then there could be thousands of survivor communities out there.

[BarbaryLion22]

So... sealed early, total isolation, total self-sufficiency, absolutely no contact whatsoever for days or weeks while the critical period passes,  not even personnel changes... aside from Iceland, who does that sound like?

That's why the nuclear submarines seem the most likely to me.  Carrier fleets could, too, but would they really have no contact at all for that long, not even people flying on and off?  If they would, then yeah, it makes total sense that they would start doing island defense.  Maybe some of the Hawaiian islands, near the big US naval base there?

By big US naval base, I'm assuming you're talking about Pearl Harbor, because there are tons of military facilities in the islands. Yes, Hawai'i is extremely isolated, and it would be safe for a time if sealed off early enough, but the islands are almost entirely dependent on the mainland for food, fuel, as well as other supplies. This is especially the case for O'ahu, the island where Pearl Harbor is located. There are around a million people on O'ahu, and although it may be able to sustain itself initially, the infrastructure tends to collapse very quickly, very easily.
The channels between the inner islands (Mau'i, Moloka'i, and Lana'i) are a breeding ground for humpback whales during the winter, which could be bad if the pods who come every year get infected with the Rash. Hawai'i (the Big Island) has to deal with a scarcity of clean water.

On the other hand, if we manage to survive the collapse of the state government, avoid infection from sea mammals, and find a way to feed and water ourselves, maybe the Hawaiian Nation can finally get a foothold, and by Year 90 we may have reverted to the old ways. (Pre-western contact Hawai'i).

The best part about the rash illness only affecting mammals is that we don't have to deal with any mo'o nui!

[Sunflower]

By big US naval base, I'm assuming you're talking about Pearl Harbor, because there are tons of military facilities in the islands. Yes, Hawai'i is extremely isolated, and it would be safe for a time if sealed off early enough, but the islands are almost entirely dependent on the mainland for food, fuel, as well as other supplies. This is especially the case for O'ahu, the island where Pearl Harbor is located. There are around a million people on O'ahu, and although it may be able to sustain itself initially, the infrastructure tends to collapse very quickly, very easily.

The channels between the inner islands (Mau'i, Moloka'i, and Lana'i) are a breeding ground for humpback whales during the winter, which could be bad if the pods who come every year get infected with the Rash. Hawai'i (the Big Island) has to deal with a scarcity of clean water.

On the other hand, if we manage to survive the collapse of the state government, avoid infection from sea mammals, and find a way to feed and water ourselves, maybe the Hawaiian Nation can finally get a foothold, and by Year 90 we may have reverted to the old ways. (Pre-western contact Hawai'i).

The best part about the rash illness only affecting mammals is that we don't have to deal with any mo'o nui!

This interests me because I lived in Hawaii from ages 6 to 10 1/2, and remember it fondly.  (My father was a Naval officer stationed at CINCPACFLT, near Pearl Harbor.)

I doubt O'ahu could have sealed itself off in time, and anyway it wouldn't be self-sufficient in food.  However, if we assume a population of 1 million, and a 5% Immunity rate, about 50,000 would have survived the first onslaught of the Rash, so maybe...?

I bet Ni'ihau could have sealed itself off successfully, at least if the residents have weapons to stave off any would-be refugees/raiders/etc.

Also:
"nui" = "great, large" is one of the few Hawaiian words I know.  What is a "mo'o nui"?

[Oskutin]

This interests me because I lived in Hawaii from ages 6 to 10 1/2, and remember it fondly.  (My father was a Naval officer stationed at CINCPACFLT, near Pearl Harbor.)

I doubt O'ahu could have sealed itself off in time, and anyway it wouldn't be self-sufficient in food.  However, if we assume a population of 1 million, and a 5% Immunity rate, about 50,000 would have survived the first onslaught of the Rash, so maybe...?

I bet Ni'ihau could have sealed itself off successfully, at least if the residents have weapons to stave off any would-be refugees/raiders/etc.

Also:
"nui" = "great, large" is one of the few Hawaiian words I know.  What is a "mo'o nui"?

Military won't help much/ for long periods.

It may even make things worse.

[Snommelp]

I only skimmed the 32 pages of this conversation, so forgive me if I'm treading ground that's already been covered. It seems like most people are focusing on arctic areas, and understandably so, since the cold seems to be an important component in fighting trolls. That said, I can't help but wonder how events may have unfolded in Australia, the island that is always trying to kill you. Like, I'm imagining mild concern as the mammalian population starts turning, then business-as-usual as the spiders and crocs eat the trolls and beasts.

[Snommelp]

Also, since Minna has confirmed that the total immunity of cats extends to big cats as well, there's a large opening there for all sorts of questions. Tigers and jaguars would probably destroy what few humans in their environment survived, but other big cats have more complicated relationships with humans. Like, there are (not totally common) stories of lions and mountain lions helping humans out. In a post-Illness world, perhaps those stories might become more common. Snow leopards, if I remember right, have a history of being skittish and avoiding humans; maybe there's an isolated village in the Himalayas that's protected by a snow leopard that never makes its presence known?

[snotra]

Considering that a large portion of Earth is now subject to manipulation by humans, this post has significance. One the rash breaks out, the whole world basically collapses in terms of infrastructure maintenance. Maintenance of coastal works and water management will likely falter after a few months, so floodings of land will occur. Once most of the population has died out, trolls and Giants may settle in the area, but large tracts of land will be reclaimed by nature, wildlife and beasts. The whole world will start to look more and more like Pripyat, Ukraine.
In my area coastal defences will rapidly erode and fall into a state of disrepair, after which a lot of marshland will come into being, probably augmented by tidal workings.

[snotra]

Another though that just popped up is the possibility of cutting off the Crimean Peninsula. It is surrounded by water, is mostly self-sufficient (I suppose) and can be cut off rather easily by really having only two lad connections to contend with. It may be too far south and too close to the origin point of the Rash, but other than that, I'd think they might have a chance.

Other possibilities coming up, based on map skimming would be the Islands north of Canada, like Baffin Island, Victoria Island, Prince of Wales Island, the French Antarctic Isles (if inhabited at all), Tasmania, islands in the Bering sea and the Kamchatkan peninsula.

[JoB]

Tigers and jaguars would probably destroy what few humans in their environment survived

Actually, I doubt it. Man-eating tigers and lions tend to rather be ill-disposed individuals that are far between - to the point of being named and famed - instead of typical for their species, and that's with lots of humans encroaching on their habitat to boot. There'll likely be the occasional human winding up as kitty chow, but.

[kapitod]

Actually, I doubt it. Man-eating tigers and lions tend to rather be ill-disposed individuals that are far between - to the point of being named and famed - instead of typical for their species, and that's with lots of humans encroaching on their habitat to boot. There'll likely be the occasional human winding up as kitty chow, but.

If all the other mammals are now Beasts and Trolls and are just as likely to kill you as you are to kill them then I think humans and their untainted lifestock will be your best chances of a meal.

[Vafhudr]

Not necessarily. It has to be said that not every animals has been turned into Beasts. Infection is not universal in the animal kingdom. Though one could imagine that natural ecologies have been severely altered by the appearance of such a change. Similar to humans, non-immunity does not mean complete infection. This applies even more so to animals that don't live in concentrated groups such as packs or herds. If they avoid contaminated meat, they ought to be fine - and my intuition is that animal can very much discriminate between infected and not-infected.

[Snommelp]

Actually, I doubt it. Man-eating tigers and lions tend to rather be ill-disposed individuals that are far between - to the point of being named and famed - instead of typical for their species, and that's with lots of humans encroaching on their habitat to boot. There'll likely be the occasional human winding up as kitty chow, but.

I was thinking not only of the temperaments of those cats themselves (stalkers and ambushers), but also their environment: jungle and other dense habitats. Areas generally teeming with life, much of it mammalian and therefore susceptible to the Illness.  That would surely have an impact on how the cats interact with the local humans. That said, you're absolutely right that man-eating big cats are the exception, rather than the rule.

[BreezeLouise]

I'd like to preface this by saying that I'm totally new. This'll be my first post, so I apologize in advance if I'm not quite up to speed on certain things, or if I get things wrong. I've also got things to do today, so I only had the time/concentration to half read, half skim the first eleven or so pages, so I'm sorry too if I mention something that's been brought up before. I'll make sure to go back and read through everything at some point after this, then go back and correct myself and make amendments. Sorry if I sound overly formal, too, that's just how I get when I start typing out this kind of thing. It helps me organize my thoughts better.

Okay. My best friend and I (hi koalalou ) were sitting down for a few hours yesterday, and we spent a lot of that time talking about SSSS since she'd been highly recommending it for a couple of weeks and I'd finally gotten around to reading it a day or two before. I'd gush about how amazing it is, but I'm already off-topic enough and I'm sure you all understand without the need for words. Anyway, we got onto the subject of survival in Canada and the U.S. She's a lot more familiar with Canadian geography and other important things like that, so I'm not the right person to discuss that portion. She made a good case for places like Cape Breton being possible safe zones, and I'm inclined to believe her. Some of my points are going to rely on the assumption that there will be at least one or two thriving communities in Canada, and several more that are managing to survive in Canada and the upper U.S.

One of the big things we hit on were nuclear powered aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines (not ships that use more conventional fuels, that would become a problem fast). I know this has been mentioned before, so I'm sorry again if I retread old ground. The United States Navy has 10 active Nimitz-class aircraft carriers, all of which are nuclear powered. This means that they don't need refueling for over 20 years, if Wikipedia is anything to go by. They also have built-in water desalination plants, so water would never be a concern.  In my skimming, I did notice a few very legitimate concerns that were brought up, though. Firstly, the problem of food. At the very beginning, there's no way that any of the carriers would have enough food to completely ride out the storm. I think the solution to that is fairly straightforward. As long as there are safe naval bases, that shouldn't be a problem. At first, I don't think it would be a huge issue. While the pandemic is still spreading, I think it's likely that the government would take extra care to keep it out of military bases. It wouldn't be foolproof, of course, and they would succumb eventually. It's no stretch of the imagination to say, though, that they could hold out for long enough to recognize the situation for what it really is and start stocking emergency supplies and prepare to vacate VIPs and such on carriers. That could hold each of the carriers over for quite a while--the longest a Nimitz carrier has gone without restocking was around 150 days, if I'm remembering that right. In an emergency apocalypse scenario, I'm sure that could be extended to at least half a year. Possibly more, especially if they decide to offload aircraft fuel and munitions to make way for more food. Again, though, I'm not sure they'd have the foresight for that. That might last for one, maaaaaybe two resupplies. After that would be the hardest part--when there are monsters running around, but there hasn't really been enough time for civilizations to start re-establishing themselves. The best possible solution would be for them to continue restocking at more remote naval bases. Say Guam, for example. Or even Hawaii, if it were isolated in time and survived. The U.S. has a lot of outposts in the Pacific, though I'm sure most of them aren't actually self-sufficient. If there are any surviving naval bases in Canada or Alaska, too those would work just as well, if not better. If worst comes to worst, though, they would have to make an incursion to gather resources. If they're smart about it, and if they learned enough from any experience trying to fight on land, it would be doable. Especially considering that the ships would be manned by real-deal military personnel and, if there's fuel left, they could even have a little air support. Once civilization starts to re-establish itself, this problem would ebb quite a bit. They'd be able to restock more frequently at, say, Cape Breton as well as any other places that've popped up.

Another big problem would be making sure that absolutely nobody comes aboard while sick with rash. This would be the most important thing. If even one gets it, you could lose the entire carrier. If proper precautions are taken, it wouldn't be too hard to prevent with quarantining and a screening process for anyone that comes aboard. The main problem, I think, would be that by the time they realize it's necessary, it might be too late. Personally, though, I'd give them pretty high odds of doing it in time. Like I said, earlier, I'm sure extra precautions would be taken by the government. They wouldn't want an entire carrier to be out of commission for two weeks, so even without knowing exactly how bad it is, they could still set up heavy restrictions on who's able to enter or exit.

Then comes the problem of refueling. Twenty years of safety, and then they would need to find new uranium cores. I have to be completely honest, I don't know how many the U.S. stockpile, or if they do at all. They might just make them on demand. I think chances would be that, if there are reserves of ready uranium cores, they would be located farther inland. That would mean that after the first 20 years, they would need to make a very dangerous incursion deep into old America. It would probably be proceeded by years of expeditions looking for information regarding the location, handling, and maybe even creation of these cores. Depending on their success, I think things could go three main ways from there:

• If they fail, then they'll be forced to try to retake some land through force. If they set their sights on what they need and not just what they want, I think it could be done, though I'm sure they'd have to suffer devastating losses. If there somehow is still fuel and munitions for the aircraft, then they could make things easier by bombing the area they want to control first. Honestly, though, that seems unlikely to me. If settlements have popped up along the coast, there's a chance they might be able to work with them to gain access to some old American hardware, like tanks and artillery, which would be helpful as long as they could find intact training manuals.
• If they succeed in finding a stockpile of uranium cores, but are only able to bring back what they need, then the cycle will repeat itself every 20 years until the stockpiles run out, they decide it's not worth the risk, or too many of them die too keep it going. When that happens, they'll be forced to integrate into any existing civilizations unless they have the manpower to try to retake land for themselves.
• If they succeed and manage to bring back enough cores for several refuelings, then they could transport them to a friendly, safe civilization or just carry them on board until they're needed next. This would allow many, many years of safety.

All of this would be hard, but I think it's doable. All in all, I'd give a fairly high probability of at least six or seven of the ten carriers surviving. They could easily become the Norwegians of the Americas, protecting the coast and hunting sea beasts.  It could become a rite of passage for children to learn how to do their parents' jobs so that they can one day take over. When the carriers get damaged, they can simply cannibalize other ships from the defunct fleet for spare parts. It's not like there's a shortage of those. If they have operational nuclear submarines, too, they could use those as underwater scouts, warning the carriers about any incoming beasts.

Anyway, I think that's about it for now. Sorry for typing your eyes off, I hope I didn't make too much of a fool of myself.

[JoB]

Then comes the problem of refueling. Twenty years of safety, and then they would need to find new uranium cores.

Having a vessel lug around all the facilities needed to safely exchange the actual fuel in the reactor would be suboptimal - they have the entire reactor exchanged.

I didn't find any information on how much stockpiling they do, but considering the ratio between 27 different reactor designs and (only) 500 reactors ever going operational, having them made ahead of time doesn't seem to make much sense.

At least the ones working with enriched uranium should have a limited shelf life as well (like actual warheads do), though that'ld possibly still be measured in decades ...