Nordic Languages Thread

[Yrkill]

I heard in the news some weeks ago that there's apparently a small party in Iceland that advocates merging with Norway. It's a bit absurd in my Norwegian ears, I mean - for starters Iceland has been Danish until recently, and it's not like the country is going badly or anything. Any thoughts on that?

http://grapevine.is/news/2014/07/23/wants-to-make-iceland-norways-20th-county/
I don't know too much about it, but what i've heard is the idea is the population is just too small to sustain a qualified government, and that's not weird considering a high dislike with politicians after the crisis of '08 here. But looking at other countries I think it's not unusual. Also, I'm pretty sure it would never happen anyways, since both countries have everything to lose in my opinion. Rich Norway doesn't need a small island of people to look out for right now, and i think you would require too much for us to give to compensate, and looking at recent disputes like the mackerell, it will never work.
But yeah, the politicians suck ATM.

[ruth]

Thank you
Yes, I'm Icelandic, born and raised, and I'm ready to answer if you have any questions. Also, yeah I don't expect you to have a high priority learning a language with probably less than 350 thousand speakers, counting non-native ones, even if it will eventually become the main language in our post-apocalyptic future...

:sweden: åh, inte så snabbt! (jag vet inte om det finns nån idiom för det men likväl ska jag använda det!) jag skulle vilja ta reda på några saker på isländska, om du har inte nåt emot. jag ska resa dit i sommar och skulle gärna vara lite duktigare med isländska än en ordinarie turist.

:uk: ah, not so fast! i would love to be able to pick your brain on icelandic, if you don't mind, as i'm going to be travelling there in the summer and i would love to be able to speak a little more than just the regular tourist knowledge.

:iceland: ah, mig langar til að biðja þig nokkurra spurninga um íslensku, ertu huga? ég mun vera að ferðast þar í sumar, og ég vil smá meira en venjulega ferðamannsþekkingu.

[Yrkill]

:sweden: åh, inte så snabbt! (jag vet inte om det finns nån idiom för det men likväl ska jag använda det!) jag skulle vilja ta reda på några saker på isländska, om du har inte nåt emot. jag ska resa dit i sommar och skulle gärna vara lite duktigare med isländska än en ordinarie turist.

:uk: ah, not so fast! i would love to be able to pick your brain on icelandic, if you don't mind, as i'm going to be travelling there in the summer and i would love to be able to speak a little more than just the regular tourist knowledge.

:iceland: ah, mig langar til að biðja þig nokkurra spurninga um íslensku, ertu huga? ég mun vera að ferðast þar í sumar, og ég vil smá meira en venjulega ferðamannsþekkingu.

:uk: Sure, do you have anything in particular in mind?

:iceland: Endilega, hefuru eitthvað sérstakt í huga?

[ruth]

:uk: so, one of the things that i struggle with most when i am first learning a language is prepositions and, in inflected languages like icelandic, what cases they go with. what are some of the more common prepositions and do they go with accusative or dative (or genitive)?

:iceland: svo, eitt af hlutum sem ég hef erfiðleikum með mest hvenær sem ég er að læra tungumál eru forsetningar og, innan tungumálum eins íslensku sem er (inflected? er mann að nota orðið 'beygja' til að vísa til þess?)), með hvaða mál þeir eru að passa. hvaða eru venjulegu forsetningarnir og eru þeir að passa með þolfal eða með þágufal?

nb: there was a LOT of looking up vocabulary for this post, so let me know if any of the words i'm using are wildly off or there's some grammatical form i'm grievously misusing. takk fyrir!

[Yrkill]

:uk: In elementary school all Icelandic children learn inflection with the help of three prepositions; um (about), frá (from) and til (to, towards). Down there is how to inflect horse.
Nefnifall -> Nominative, Þolfall -> Accusative, Þágufall -> Dative, Eignarfall -> Genitive.
Here is decent list of Icelandic prepositions and what case they go with http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsetning (Page is in Icelandic, if there is something unclear let me know)

Also, i added how I would write your previous Icelandic sentence. There were no completely wrong words, it's just customary to say that a preposition "controls" or "steers" (stýrir) a case. Also you forgot "eignarfall".

:iceland: Í grunnskóla læra öll íslensk börn fallbeygingu með hjálp þriggja forsetninga; um, frá og til. Hérna er hvernig á að fallbeygja hestur:

Nefnifall (nf.) Hér er hestur
Þolfall (þf.) Um hest
Þágufall (þgf.) Frá hesti
Eignarfall (ef.) Til hests

Hér er fínn listi yfir íslenskar forsetningar og hvaða falli þær stýra. http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsetning.

Auk þess bætti ég við hér hvernig ég myndi skrifa seinustu íslensku setninguna þína. Það voru engin algjörlega röng orð, það er bara venja að segja að forsetning stýri falli. Auk þess gleymdiru eignarfalli.

Svo, einn af hlutunum sem ég er mest í erfiðleikum með þegar ég er fyrst að læra tungumál eru forsetningar og, í tungumálum eins og íslensku sem eru fallbeygð, hvaða falli þau stýra. Hverjar eru algengustu forsetningarnar og stýra þær þolfalli, þágufalli eða eignarfalli?

[kjeks]

Sterke var menn i Bjørneætten, mykje til krigarar hadde dei alltid vori, og få kom opp om Tjøtta sine hovmenn i mannevett og list. Torkjell sjølv sa om Eitil, at han var den største krigar i heila Hålogaland, og at ingen mann skulle nyte betre av gjestfriheita til Torkjell sin ætt enn ham. Torkjell gjorde Eitil til Hersir på dei to drakeskipa sine og gav ham namnet Fimbulvarg, for han tykte at han likna nett på ein diger farleg varg der han gjekk i serk av vargskinn og ei kappe av vargpels.

Strongest were men of Bjørneætten, many of them had always been warriors , and some had been raised of Tjøtta's housecarls with reason and list. Tjorkell saw himself that Eitil was the strongest man in all of Hålogaland and if any men should receive best guest rights from Tjorkell's family it should be him (Eitil). Tjorkell made Eitil Herse (another form of viking chieftain) about his dragon shops and gave him the name "Fimbulvarg" (Big, fiery wolf), because he thought he looked like an enormous, ferious wolf as he walked in undershirts/smallclothes (serk was translated as "chemise" which would be womens underwear...) of wolveskin and a cap of wolf fur.

I found interesting that "mannenvett" was not to be found in my resources, so I translated "mann" and "vett" seperately. In Germany we have the word "Menschenverstand" (like common sense).
Also "gjestfriheit" was not to be found, but as we have "Gastfreiheit" ourselves I translated it by its meaning to guest right. Though that would not fit propperly.

Er det ingen nettstad hvor jeg kan lese barnelitteratur? Nå leser jeg av og til korte satser opp wikipedia.
(Is there any website where I could read children's storys? At the moment I sometimes reat short sentences on wikipedia).

[Fenris]

Er det ingen nettstad hvor jeg kan lese barnelitteratur? Nå leser jeg av og til korte satser opp wikipedia.
(Is there any website where I could read children's storys? At the moment I sometimes reat short sentences on wikipedia).

Denna sia har en del eventyr og lignande. En del av dem er noe kompliserte men, kanke finne no annet av barnefortellinger på nettet (blant barnehistorieforfattere er nok Thorbjørn Egner den mest kjente blant norske forfattere, sjøl om det for det meste er barnesanger). Forøvrig betyr 'mannevett' no som 'kunnskap' generelt.

This page has quite a few fairytales and similar stories. Quite a few of them are kinda complicated though, I can't find any other children's stories available for free (of children's authors, Thorbjørn Egner is probably the most prolific for norwegian literature, even if most of it is songs). 'Mannevett' means something closer to 'knowledge' than common sense.

[kjeks]

Eitil tente Torkjell hovmann svært trufast, for Eitil var ein fattig bonde takknemleg for dei gjeve gåvene Torkjell gav, og han slo Torkjell sine fiendar i hel alle som ein. Torkjell Bjørn sin skald, Kolbein den kloke, kvad om den gjeve Eitil:

Vreid er varg vore,
Ein valdsam krigar frå Tjøttas vik,
Sit ved Bjørnættens bord,
Ein betre hersir har få i skåle.
Trufast tene Fimbulvarg hovmannen,
Med Vargbittet huggast dei som trettar med ham.

Eitil served Tjorkell as a very faithfull Housecarl, because he was a poor farmer he was thankfull for the gifts received by Tjorkell and he slew all of Tjorkells foes together.
Tjorkell Bjørn's Skald, Kolbein the wise, recites in honour of Eitil (Jeg har not forstått parten):
Eitil has been a wrathful wolf,
a powerfull warrior from Tjøtta's bay,
he sat at the Bjørnættens table,
Few drank with a better Herse (chieftain).
Faitful servant Fimbulvarg housecald,
with Wolfbiter beaten those who quarreled with him.

Denna sia har en del eventyr og lignande.

Mange tack Fenris, for den sia! Det helper meg.

[Fimbulvarg]

Strongest were men of Bjørneætten, many of them had always been warriors , and some had been raised of Tjøtta's housecarls with reason and list. Tjorkell saw himself that Eitil was the strongest man in all of Hålogaland and if any men should receive best guest rights from Tjorkell's family it should be him (Eitil). Tjorkell made Eitil Herse (another form of viking chieftain) about his dragon shops and gave him the name "Fimbulvarg" (Big, fiery wolf), because he thought he looked like an enormous, ferious wolf as he walked in undershirts/smallclothes (serk was translated as "chemise" which would be womens underwear...) of wolveskin and a cap of wolf fur.

I found interesting that "mannenvett" was not to be found in my resources, so I translated "mann" and "vett" seperately. In Germany we have the word "Menschenverstand" (like common sense).
Also "gjestfriheit" was not to be found, but as we have "Gastfreiheit" ourselves I translated it by its meaning to guest right. Though that would not fit propperly.

Er det ingen nettstad hvor jeg kan lese barnelitteratur? Nå leser jeg av og til korte satser opp wikipedia.
(Is there any website where I could read children's storys? At the moment I sometimes reat short sentences on wikipedia).

Gjestfrihet means hospitality. Mannevett is not really used anymore, I don't even recall the exact meaning myself but I believe Fenris' translation is good.

Sterke var menn i Bjørneætten, mykje til krigarar hadde dei alltid vori, og få kom opp om Tjøtta sine hovmenn i mannevett og list > Strong were the men of the bear ætt (lineage, a type of norse familial clan), much warrior-like they had always been, and few came close to the chieftains of Tjøtta in cunning and cleverness.
Torkjell sjølv sa om Eitil, at han var den største krigar i heila Hålogaland, og at ingen mann skulle nyte betre av gjestfriheita til Torkjell sin ætt enn ham > Torkjell himself said of Eitil that he was the greatest warrior in all of Halogaland, and that no man should better enjoy the hospitality of Torkjell's lineage than him.
Torkjell gjorde Eitil til Hersir på dei to drakeskipa sine og gav ham namnet Fimbulvarg, for han tykte at han likna nett på ein diger farleg varg der han gjekk i serk av vargskinn og ei kappe av vargpels > Torkjell made Eitil hersir on his two Dragonships and gave him the name Fimbulvarg, as he though he resembled precisesly a large, dangerous wolf where he went in serk (type of garment) of wolf hide and a cloak of wolf fur.

[kjeks]

(of children's authors, Thorbjørn Egner is probably the most prolific for norwegian literature, even if most of it is songs). 'Mannevett' means something closer to 'knowledge' than common sense.

The German "Menschenverstand" is also more than just "common sense" but the other translations into english were no closer than this.

Thorbjørn Egner wrote "Karius and Bactus". I have to admit that it was an event I always looked forward to in kindergarten, when the nurses told us what to eat and how to brush our teeth correctly. We always watched that film on an old projector (no beamers in kindergartens of the mid-nineties) and as we nearly never watched films that was kind of a feast day. TV on a white wall!

[Fimbulvarg]

The German "Menschenverstand" is also more than just "common sense" but the other translations into english were no closer than this.

Thorbjørn Egner wrote "Karius and Bactus". I have to admit that it was an event I always looked forward to in kindergarten, when the nurses told us what to eat and how to brush our teeth correctly. We always watched that film on an old projector (no beamers in kindergartens of the mid-nineties) and as we nearly never watched films that was kind of a feast day. TV on a white wall!

That movie felt a bit messed up in hindsight. I mean, they are basically brutally exterminated by the end of it.

[kjeks]

That movie felt a bit messed up in hindsight. I mean, they are basically brutally exterminated by the end of it.

Yeah, well... Grimm's tales oftend ended with killing a witch or some other fairy species - I don't remember the movies clearly but watching something like TV was very exciting back than. It was like cinema though few of us small ones had bean to a cinema. And Karius and Bactus were the reason why we would not be allowed to eat as much sweets as we liked. Maybe that was okay.

I never asked myself where they could go from the moment they were wiped out of the teeth. Ohhh, I won't start thinking about that now, I really liked that story

[Fimbulvarg]

:norway: Nå har jeg lest hele denne tråden! Det ser ut som om nordlendingen vår, Fimbulvarg, var en hel del mer engasjert i nynorsk enn jeg var. Da jeg endelig fikk tatt nynorsk kastet jeg ordboken i søppelbøtten på vei ut av eksamenslokalet... Modent, sant? Og jeg var 24.
 
Fenris, hvor kommer du fra? Jeg har lagt merke til at når du noen ganger gjentar deg selv i en post, så bruker du forskjellige endinger om hverandre (feiret/feira) og forskjellige former av ord (sjøl/selv). Minner meg litt om den dialektforvirringen jeg har endt opp med, som Hamarsing med stefar fra Oslos beste vestkant, og deretter fem år i Bergen...

Som svar på det tidligere spørsmålet om hvilke høytider man feirer, så går det vel i ikke-religiøs jul, ikke-religiøs fastelavn (mmm, boller med krem) og ikke-religiøse påskeegg i påsken. Sankt Hans har vi ikke tradisjon for på innlandet, og pinse får jeg aldri med meg før jeg står der og skal på butikken og den er stengt... Min mor og stefar er personlig kristne, men vi går ikke i kirken.

:uk: Now I've read the entire thread! It would seem that our northerner, Fimbulvarg, was a lot more engaged in nynorsk than I was. When I'd finally had my nynorsk exam I threw the dictionary in the bin on my way out of the exam room... Mature, right? And I was 24.

Fenris, where do you come from? I've noticed that when you sometimes repeat yourself in a post, you use different endings (feiret/feira) and different forms of words (sjøl/selv). Reminds me a bit of the dialect confusion I've ended up with, as a Hamarsing (person from Hamar) with a step dad from the best western part of Oslo, and then five years in Bergen...

As a reply to the earlier question about which holidays we personally celebrate, I partake in non-religious Christmas, non-religious Fastelavn and non-religious easter egg in easter. Sankt Hans is not a thing we have a tradition for in inner Norway, and I never remember pentecost until I stand outside the grocery shop and it's closed... My mother and step dad are christians, but we don't go to church.

My dad writes nynorsk, odds are I probably had him proofread some of it. Anyhow I'm nowhere near as proficient in nynorsk now as I was back then.

Jeg tror Fenris sa han var fra/bor i Vestfold, et sted ved kysten.

[Fenris]

Fenris, hvor kommer du fra? Jeg har lagt merke til at når du noen ganger gjentar deg selv i en post, så bruker du forskjellige endinger om hverandre (feiret/feira) og forskjellige former av ord (sjøl/selv). Minner meg litt om den dialektforvirringen jeg har endt opp med, som Hamarsing med stefar fra Oslos beste vestkant, og deretter fem år i Bergen...

Fenris, where do you come from? I've noticed that when you sometimes repeat yourself in a post, you use different endings (feiret/feira) and different forms of words (sjøl/selv). Reminds me a bit of the dialect confusion I've ended up with, as a Hamarsing (person from Hamar) with a step dad from the best western part of Oslo, and then five years in Bergen...

:norway: Kommer fra Vestfold, bodd her hele livet og begge foreldrane mine er herifra og (dog er fatter fra byn mens muttern er fra bygda, så det er litt forskjell i åssen dem snakker). Grunnen til gjentakelsane og de forskjellige formane er vel egentlig bare at jeg prøver å ikke skrive dialekt, men glemmer meg ganske så ofte. Er ikke så veldig vant til å skrive reint bokmål, siden de siste åra er det for det meste på offentlie ting jeg har gjort det.

:uk: I come from Vestfold, have lived here all my life and both my parents are from here (although dads from the city and mom's from the countryside, so there's some difference in their dialects). The reason for the repetitions and different words/endings is that I try not to write in dialect, but I kinda forget quite often. I'm not that used to writing pure bokmål, since the past years I've only used it on official things.

[Fimbulvarg]

Det skal sies at så godt som alle nordmen på dette forument komer fra Østlandet av en eller anna grunn.