Language learning discussion

[Nimphy]

I think we also need a discussion board for us learners. Post your progress, complain about the language you're learning, gloat about those new words that you learned and the fact that you can now write your name in Russian or Chinese.

I'll start off. While I love both German and Norwegian, and I literally squeak every single time my "teachers" send me their new lesson, I'm starting to get just a little bit frustrated by all the grammatical rules. Truth be told, the grammatical rules are also relaxing, as there are not many exceptions... But still. So many grammatical rules.

And I'm also going to complain about that darn "ch" sound in German, which I have no idea how I should pronounce. I'm going to gloat about the fact that I could understand Steller's introduction in German (and learned a new word, Kanninchen) and that I can understand Norwegian fairly well by reading once or twice. I'm also very asleep.

Random sleepy observation - why do some people keep saying that German and Norwegian (German mostly) are "harsh" languages and sometimes even "ugly"? They've got their own kind of beauty 

[ThisCat]

Random sleepy observation - why do some people keep saying that German and Norwegian (German mostly) are "harsh" languages and sometimes even "ugly"? They've got their own kind of beauty 

Thank you.
I happen to love my language, and if I had to choose a language to learn, it would be German. Maybe it has a bit of a roughness to it, but it is completely possible to be rough, yet elegant. Like blacksmith jewelry. Beautiful and powerful.

[mithrysc]

...you can now write your name in Russian or Chinese.

I can write my name in Chinese but it doesn't really count because I can't do anything else. If ever, I can write my name in quite a few different writing systems or alphabets (I really love different writing systems), but only have very very vague notions about the language, which is unfortunate.

Right now I'm schlepping through Norwegian, though I'm only at the beginning of the figurative journey. So far the grammar doesn't seem to be too bad, but that's probably just my newbie-ness. That or my comparing it to Latin grammar. But rest assured, I will soon reach the point where I will, too, be squeaking at every new rule. Not so many exceptions sound nice, though.

[Eich]

Well, I just so happened to start looking at a Norwegian thing online a couple days ago, and might be looking at it right now, sooooooo... yeah.  Hopefully, this will be a good place for me to use it, and maybe learn a little bit better by talking with y'all, once I learn enough to start having actual conversations.

Also, totally agree.  The Germans at work talk in their language sometimes, and it sounds really nice. 

[Nimphy]

Thank you.
I happen to love my language, and if I had to choose a language to learn, it would be German. Maybe it has a bit of a roughness to it, but it is completely possible to be rough, yet elegant. Like blacksmith jewelry. Beautiful and powerful.

Heh, I get a lot of weird stares when I say that German is sweet, from a certain point of view, that Russian is elegant, that there's more to Czech than just consonants over consonants, that. All languages are beautiful, each in their own way. To me, both German and Norwegian (and generally all Germanic languages) are very relaxing. They are not as "Akzzkakzakzkakz" as Italians make them out to be, they're more like... Uhm, running water. I don't know if that makes any sense. To my ears, they're really soft (especially for the lack of loud sounds and high-pitched vowels)... Like... You know, running water...

[Hrollo]

Yeah, having watching a number of films in German, Swedish and Dannish, I find Germanic languages in general are rather sweet and slender sounding, not harsh at all.

I think German-as-a-harsh-language is mostly a linguering cliché from World War II, a part of the Screaming Nazi Officer stereotype.

Icelandic on the other hand doesn't really sound Germanic to me; it almost has a slavic ring to it, somehow.

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You know, if Japanese was written in Hangul, I probably would have learned it successfully already. Dang you, easy-writing-system, why did you have to chose the wrong country!


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If anyone has any question about French grammar and usage, I'm generally rather good at answering those.

[StellersJayC]

And I'm also going to complain about that darn "ch" sound in German, which I have no idea how I should pronounce. I'm going to gloat about the fact that I could understand Steller's introduction in German (and learned a new word, Kanninchen) and that I can understand Norwegian fairly well by reading once or twice. I'm also very asleep.

Weeeell... "ch" is a hard sound to describe with writing, but I can do my best. Using English sounds:

Kanninchen might be pronounced "Cann-een-kehn". Sorta.

[Sunflower]

To me, both German and Norwegian (and generally all Germanic languages) are very relaxing. They are not as "Akzzkakzakzkakz" as Italians make them out to be, they're more like... Uhm, running water. I don't know if that makes any sense. To my ears, they're really soft (especially for the lack of loud sounds and high-pitched vowels)... Like... You know, running water...

Apparently, a lot of classical singers would agree with you re: German. 
Recently, I happened to be discussing the pros and cons of various languages with the music director at our church and his wife (both formidably trained classical musicians and part-time opera singers).  They both felt German is the most beautiful language to speak and sing (e.g. lieder). 

So you're in good company!

[Clayres]

Wow. Maybe you can do a miracle and make me really appreciate my native language.

Also, Nimphy and StellersJayC, in Kaninchen the "ch" sound is pronouonced like a very soft "sh". (Kanninchen looks like Kaninchen in a Kanne, pfft, sorry 'bout that)

Now that I think about it, Kaninchen is a very adorable word, fitting for an adorable rabbit.

[kjeks]

But the realy soft sh is not built in the area around you teeth. It is lokated in the back of you mouth. The hollow space forming above your upper set of teeth is one wall of a pipe, the opposite wall is formed by tensing you tongue muscels from the back to the middle. Now you start breathing out. You should feel the air going out at your palatine (root of your mouth?) and here something like a hiss emerging from there. You can play by tensing different areas of your tongue while trying to make that sound.

In "Kuchen" you have to do different. You are only tensing the back muscles of your tongue and press the air through your throat (pharynx area). It is a bit like vomiting air. It is the same area where you roll the letter "r" in some languages.

[Fimbulvarg]

Icelandic on the other hand doesn't really sound Germanic to me; it almost has a slavic ring to it, somehow.

Huh, I was watching the Youtuber BirgirPall's videos and I was surprised to learn he was speaking Icelandic. It sounded Finnish to me.

[Nimphy]

Wow. Maybe you can do a miracle and make me really appreciate my native language.

Also, Nimphy and StellersJayC, in Kaninchen the "ch" sound is pronouonced like a very soft "sh". (Kanninchen looks like Kaninchen in a Kanne, pfft, sorry 'bout that)

Now that I think about it, Kaninchen is a very adorable word, fitting for an adorable rabbit.

But the realy soft sh is not built in the area around you teeth. It is lokated in the back of you mouth. The hollow space forming above your upper set of teeth is one wall of a pipe, the opposite wall is formed by tensing you tongue muscels from the back to the middle. Now you start breathing out. You should feel the air going out at your palatine (root of your mouth?) and here something like a hiss emerging from there. You can play by tensing different areas of your tongue while trying to make that sound.

In "Kuchen" you have to do different. You are only tensing the back muscles of your tongue and press the air through your throat (pharynx area). It is a bit like vomiting air. It is the same area where you roll the letter "r" in some languages.

Thank you both for your tips! I'll try and record something later to see if I actually understood the point or not (you guys will have to stand me and my recordings for a long time ). The thing I'd really love to know is when it's which sound (when it's the "Kuchen" kind of "ch", when the "Kaninchen)", etc...). I'm quite afraid I'll have to learn that by heart, though...
 
To Clayres: you should indeed appreciate your native language! It's wonderful! Also, I'll just blame my wrong spelling of Kaninchen on Stellers 

[kjeks]

Thank you both for your tips! I'll try and record something later to see if I actually understood the point or not (you guys will have to stand me and my recordings for a long time ). The thing I'd really love to know is when it's which sound (when it's the "Kuchen" kind of "ch", when the "Kaninchen)", etc...). I'm quite afraid I'll have to learn that by heart, though...
 
To Clayres: you should indeed appreciate your native language! It's wonderful! Also, I'll just blame my wrong spelling of Kaninchen on Stellers 

So family meeting over this aaaaand:
After a,o,u, and au (considered as dark vokals) you take the velar "ch" down at your throat.
Afer e,i,ü,ä,ö and ei (considered as light vokals) you take the palatal "ch" at your palatine.

Some children have severe problems reading the combination of these two letters and some of my boys with a russian background have to be helped with the correct pronounciation. I'm not that deep into Russian that I am able to detect where that comes from. Also in Switzerland pronounciation is more deeper down the throat and rules of the "ch" are different from here. "Küche" (kitchen) is pronunced at the palatine in Germany, but down the throat in Switzerland.

[Nimphy]

So family meeting over this aaaaand:
After a,o,u, and au (considered as dark vokals) you take the velar "ch" down at your throat.
Afer e,i,ü,ä,ö and ei (considered as light vokals) you take the palatal "ch" at your palatine.

Some children have severe problems reading the combination of these two letters and some of my boys with a russian background have to be helped with the correct pronounciation. I'm not that deep into Russian that I am able to detect where that comes from. Also in Switzerland pronounciation is more deeper down the throat and rules of the "ch" are different from here. "Küche" (kitchen) is pronunced at the palatine in Germany, but down the throat in Switzerland.

This thread is proving to be useful (More rules, yay.)

Soooo... I was doing a quick Duolingo revision on German and I had to write down what the voice was saying. The sentence was "Sie ist ein kind", I understood in the end, but upon my first listening what I had heard was "Sie isst ein Kind"...

[kjeks]

This thread is proving to be useful (More rules, yay.)

Soooo... I was doing a quick Duolingo revision on German and I had to write down what the voice was saying. The sentence was "Sie ist ein kind", I finally understood, but upon my first listening what I had heard was "Sie isst ein Kind"...

You understood it correct you know. As children are tasting delicious we Germans stick to eating them. This is the main reason we are shrinking constantly as a nation