Copenhagen - Chapters 5-8

[dmeck7755]

More likely tallow candles which, barring the presence of any toxic dyes or artificial colours, are as safe to eat as any animal fat. Really, a mixture of tallow and beeswax would work even better as a candle. And beeswax is edible in small amounts, being sometimes used medicinally.

Yep!! You beat me to the punchline

Thank you

[thorny]

Are they actually eating the candles? I thought that was a joke.

I think that Minna suggested (at a later point) that Nyuuudog is not connected to Cthulhund in any way, but I wouldn't have the slightest what else it is supposed to be.

They're both wearing the same heart on their collars. I think it has to be the same dog.

340-341 shouldn't Sigrun be on her way anyway? she must have heard the shots. -- maybe she was, though. And did she think Emil did all that shooting at a cat? I'd expect a different reaction entirely. 'That's just a cat' makes sense as a reaction to his screaming -- but not as a reaction to his trying to shoot a cat!

There's also nothing here of 'that noise will bring other beasts and trolls down on us.' She doesn't seem upset at all about the noise, even when she thinks it was unnecessary.

346, Sigrun, that's a feral cat. She's never seen a human before. Why on earth would she come down to you?
   -- I suppose Sigrun's thinking the same way as the commenters who thought it was Mama Cat who the team might adopt?

I'm also confused (and was the first time) about the kittens. We first see Mama Cat moving kittens; she moves at least two. It's already raining, and very wet. It makes sense if she's moving them to a dry location. It makes no sense whatsoever for her to be moving them to a wet location where they're going to drown. Were there two other kittens out there somewhere, in a nice dry spot, but doomed to starve to death? They're too young to survive on their own. (And that would be a very large litter for a feral; they're usually not eating that well.) Did Mama Cat somehow misjudge what places would be flooded? There doesn't seem to have been time enough for their new nest to have flooded that badly while she was trying to escape the dog, if it was nice and dry when she put them there -- there's no sign that a full scale flash flood is happening.

[dreki]

Are they actually eating the candles? I thought that was a joke.

If they are tallow candles - tallow is a valid cooking ingredient. It's just fallen out of favor now. It'd be like if they were made of butter or coconut oil.  Again, just dumping extra oil into a soup will leave it kind of unpleasant if you're not used to eating that way, but fully edible and very valuable for surviving a winter mission.

Here's a recipe for edible tallow candles that I stumbled on which I think is neat.  @Róisín I think you'd like to see the recipe? It's garlic & herb infused tallow.

They're both wearing the same heart on their collars. I think it has to be the same dog.

Agreed. If Minna claims they aren't - this is one reason I don't put "word of god" above "what's actually shown in the canon".

340-341 shouldn't Sigrun be on her way anyway? she must have heard the shots. -- maybe she was, though. And did she think Emil did all that shooting at a cat? I'd expect a different reaction entirely. 'That's just a cat' makes sense as a reaction to his screaming -- but not as a reaction to his trying to shoot a cat!

I think this is a reflection of how the team has read Emil's past reactions.  Like his being grossed out to the dead thing and freaking out over the dead bodies.  (which is reasonable whne you've never seen them before)  To most of us, who've never been troll hunting, I think we understand where he's coming from and can still see yes he sees the diference between a cat and a danger - but I also can imagine that at this point Sigrun totally believes Emil ran away from the cat.

As for the gun shots - agreed.  There's a certain amount of artistic license for good pacing and story telling, though.  It would have wasted time and panels for Sigrun to help him. And also would have denied him the scene later when he kills the dog, which I think was important for him to do himself.   So I'd say we can forgive the plot hole.

There's also nothing here of 'that noise will bring other beasts and trolls down on us.' She doesn't seem upset at all about the noise, even when she thinks it was unnecessary.

That rule was specifically for a solid building that likely had trolls in it, and in a cramped city street with lots of shadows. I don't think it was a blanket statement.

This is a crap building so there's no fear of trolls nests, and likely few trolls, within the building itself.  It also looked like, when they entered, the outside was really bright and there's probably not a safe place for trolls to hide nearby. So maybe she's relying on all that to trust they won't be attacked.

Also the rules can be suuuppeerrrr plot convenient.

(Or maybe Emil just has a really good silencer on his gun?  I don't know how silencers work)

346, Sigrun, that's a feral cat. She's never seen a human before. Why on earth would she come down to you?
   -- I suppose Sigrun's thinking the same way as the commenters who thought it was Mama Cat who the team might adopt?

Tbf domestic cats act like this. Given Sigrun's personality, I imagine non-military cats often tend to hiss and run away from her so she may just be used to it. Cats are super useful so yeah I totally get seeing a cat and being like "hey let's take it home"

I'm also confused (and was the first time) about the kittens. We first see Mama Cat moving kittens; she moves at least two. It's already raining, and very wet. It makes sense if she's moving them to a dry location. It makes no sense whatsoever for her to be moving them to a wet location where they're going to drown. Were there two other kittens out there somewhere, in a nice dry spot, but doomed to starve to death? They're too young to survive on their own. (And that would be a very large litter for a feral; they're usually not eating that well.) Did Mama Cat somehow misjudge what places would be flooded? There doesn't seem to have been time enough for their new nest to have flooded that badly while she was trying to escape the dog, if it was nice and dry when she put them there -- there's no sign that a full scale flash flood is happening.

Agreed... That felt weird to me as well...

Again I think a degree of it is the storytelling, putting something in that doesn't necessarily make sense but communicates the emotions/situation/narrative in a condensed way, but I think there would've been a better way to establish the narrative. Honestly the mama cat trying to move them and being blocked would've worked better IMO. 

[Róisín]

Dreki, that is an odd way to eat a tallow candle, but funny. Have you encountered slush lamps? Some of the old miners out on the FNQ gemfields used to make them. They would save the drippings from foods such as lamb chops and bacon and pour that into a jam tin, stick a wick in, and use it for a light in camp. It smelled vile and gave a dim flickery light, but better than nothing.

 When I was a kid on a farm my gran used to save all the fat residue from cooked meats, plus lumps of fat that had been trimmed from meats during butchering and preparation, and render them down for the fat, which was then used for cooking and lubrication. She was very fussy about the process, and used to start the fat in a large pot of cold water, which would be very slowly heated on the woodstove. The process can’t be hurried or you will have a mixture of water and fat spurting everywhere and probably catching fire. The fat slowly separates out and floats on top of the water. Once this has happened you put the pot somewhere cold until the fat layer solidifies. At the bottom of the fat layer there will be a layer of residue - skin, meat scraps, hairs, dirt. This is scraped off and discarded, the water goes into the compost or the pig swill, and if need be you can repeat the process so the remaining fat is perfectly clean. It can then be used to fry food, or as shortening in pastry, or just spread on bread - bread and dripping was a treat on freezing winter mornings.

[dmeck7755]

I can see rye crisps and the solidified tallow as a common meal for the team.

[dreki]

I can see rye crisps and the solidified tallow as a common meal for the team.

Definitely.  Iirc pemmican is fat mixed with a bit of meat, and it stores very well, I can see that being made whenever meat is available as well just for some variety and a bit of extra nourishment.

They were always shown eating soups and I'm not sure how realistic that is.  Although it is a fairly easy option to cook and I imagine he'd melt the snow in as well to avoid wasting water.

I looked up finnish recipes once and there were a lot of soups/stews so it also might reflect that heritage.  (Again soup/stew does make a lot of sense)

Dreki, that is an odd way to eat a tallow candle, but funny.

That's what I thought as well.  Seems like an interesting way to season a dish.

Have you encountered slush lamps? Some of the old miners out on the FNQ gemfields used to make them. They would save the drippings from foods such as lamb chops and bacon and pour that into a jam tin, stick a wick in, and use it for a light in camp. It smelled vile and gave a dim flickery light, but better than nothing.

No I've never heard of that before and before you mentioned tallow candles it never registered that culinary oils could be used as a source of light. (In hindsight it makes sense)

When I was a kid on a farm my gran used to save all the fat residue from cooked meats, plus lumps of fat that had been trimmed from meats during butchering and preparation, and render them down for the fat, which was then used for cooking and lubrication. She was very fussy about the process, and used to start the fat in a large pot of cold water, which would be very slowly heated on the woodstove. The process can’t be hurried or you will have a mixture of water and fat spurting everywhere and probably catching fire. The fat slowly separates out and floats on top of the water. Once this has happened you put the pot somewhere cold until the fat layer solidifies. At the bottom of the fat layer there will be a layer of residue - skin, meat scraps, hairs, dirt. This is scraped off and discarded, the water goes into the compost or the pig swill, and if need be you can repeat the process so the remaining fat is perfectly clean. It can then be used to fry food, or as shortening in pastry, or just spread on bread - bread and dripping was a treat on freezing winter mornings.

I've rendered fat in the past as well.  We don't have enough foods that produce it to have it, though, for awhile I made myself stock from beef bones and would render the fat from that, but the smell makes my partner ill so I stick to chicken stock and just keep the fat in with it.

We have a big pork loin in the freezer so may have enough fat from that to render.

I can imagine Mikkel doing this depending on what game they bring in, to Emil's disgust of course.

[NightMareMage]

I knew that candles could be made from more than just wax but this was all more than I knew before and was a joy to learn about.

For the somewhat earlier discussion on Reynir and Dreamworld, I was going to talk about this when I got there, but I am glad other people were bothered by this too.

When we see Reynir in the Dreamworld for the second time, why does he wake up where he does? And this ends up being the first time ever that Reynir remembers his dreams, and even then his memory had to be jogged, and then he has no problem remembering dreams after that.

This may be both the only plot point and the only piece of world-building that truly bothers me.

I don’t mind the Dreamworld being largely unexplained but everything about Reynir learning he’s a mage is deeply contrived.

It could have been something Minna planned to do more with and thus it would have made sense later, but the end result is the same.

As for Dreamworld speculation, Onni said Icelandic mages are mostly defenseless, and I don’t think we ever see a barrier as we do for Finnish mages so they may not even have one. My own headcanon is that Icelandic mages’ heavens are hidden well so all the monsters in Dreamworld rarely fine them. It is just headcanon, but you could run with that idea and say that Icelandic mages are hard for Dreamworld monsters to detect.

[LooNEY_DAC]

They were always shown eating soups and I'm not sure how realistic that is.  Although it is a fairly easy option to cook and I imagine he'd melt the snow in as well to avoid wasting water.

I looked up finnish recipes once and there were a lot of soups/stews so it also might reflect that heritage.  (Again soup/stew does make a lot of sense)

Soups are not merely easy; they're the go-to option for when you have limited supplies. There's a reason "soup kitchens" mean the aftermath of a disaster.

[Róisín]

What LooNEY said is certainly true, and a childhood spent on subsistence farms certainly taught me a lot of ways to make them. The method is also useful for times when food has to be stretched to feed an uncertain number of people for an undefined period of time. Also as a way to use up leftovers and keep things from going off as quickly if you don’t have refrigeration. You can butcher an animal, quickly use the tender parts that can be cooked straight away, and then slowly stew the bits that are tougher or bony. Plus meat can be dried, fat can be rendered, and meat/fat combinations such as pemmican last quite a long time. I like pemmican made with the addition of dried fruits and seeds.

And soups/stews don’t have to taste bad. Family and friends often ask me to make a vegetable soup, which I make with a blend of soaked dried beans, lentils and barley, soaked overnight, rinsed and then slowly stewed in fresh water. It is always wise to soak beans and grains overnight before cooking, both to remove potentially harmful chemicals and to soften them and make cooking easier and quicker, which also saves fuel. When the beans are cooked soft I add salt and a mixture of chopped vegetables: onion, carrot, salsify, parsnips, celery, whatever I have, and serve it with chopped fresh herbs and lots of bread. You can use stock instead of water to make an even richer and tastier soup.

The ‘’bacon and beans’ which was a staple food of the American West was made by a similar process of soaking and slow cooking using pinto beans, or Navy beans, though any bean or grain will serve.

[Keep Looking]

I'll second Róisín there!

Growing up my brothers and I ate quite a lot of food and my mother is quite economical so we grew up on a lot of big-pot stews and braises, especially in winter, often made in my mum's cast iron pot. One that we'd have fairly often was my mum's version of a Cantonese braised beef stew with chunks of cheap stewing cuts of beef as well as plenty of vegetables. She'd also use assorted leftover meats to make a soup with pearl barley and lentils and bits of vegetables and tomato paste. I think it's always good to have recipes that can use up leftovers or things that are lying around in your fridge/pantry - stops you from wasting food and helps save you money.

[dreki]

When we see Reynir in the Dreamworld for the second time, why does he wake up where he does? And this ends up being the first time ever that Reynir remembers his dreams, and even then his memory had to be jogged, and then he has no problem remembering dreams after that.

IIRC he wakes up in his own haven, right?

My interpretation is that the boat he woke up on is the one that takes new mages to the dreamsea.  Which is why it makes no sense he was running around it when Lalli first saw him.

So now that he's been taken to the dreamsea by the ship, he automatically wakes up in his haven since it's safe.

This may be both the only plot point and the only piece of world-building that truly bothers me.

I don’t mind the Dreamworld being largely unexplained but everything about Reynir learning he’s a mage is deeply contrived.

The dreamworld seems to just be "plot convenient try not to think too hard".  Which yeah isn't great.

It really, really, really, really, re-he-he-eallly bothers me that Reynir's mage training gave him zero new info about the dreamworld.    Considering how dangerous it is and that, even safely in Bruardalur, he's able to venture out into areas that aren't safe. 

A kade in Iceland could be absolutely devastating. You'd think dreamworld safety would be drilled into them!

It could have been something Minna planned to do more with and thus it would have made sense later, but the end result is the same.

As for Dreamworld speculation, Onni said Icelandic mages are mostly defenseless, and I don’t think we ever see a barrier as we do for Finnish mages so they may not even have one. My own headcanon is that Icelandic mages’ heavens are hidden well so all the monsters in Dreamworld rarely fine them. It is just headcanon, but you could run with that idea and say that Icelandic mages are hard for Dreamworld monsters to detect.

Years ago, Minna posted a screenshot of her plan notes that she thought was illegible.  Someone managed to transcribe it and shared it here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/196jjo_aY4TzD9qIMsY2TjVuD6Kpz_fH29uduQC4t9iQ/edit?ouid=114656680487209798637&usp=docs_home&ths=true

It does indicate Reynir should have showed off more powers, but I don't think there's any indication he'd be more dreamsea savvy. 

My big question about the dreamworld is how it impacts mages.  If they do too much at night do they end up tired during the day? When we first saw Lalli in it it looked like he was sleeping - do mages need to sleep within their haven?  Do mages ever have normal dreams?

Plus meat can be dried, fat can be rendered, and meat/fat combinations such as pemmican last quite a long time. I like pemmican made with the addition of dried fruits and seeds.

The lack of this kind of dried food is mostly what bothers me - not the prevalance of stews on its own. I can imagine 90-95% of what they eat being soups/stews/porridges, but there'd be a little bit of other things. 

And soups/stews don’t have to taste bad.

This. Most of what we eat is a variation of this for the reasons listed. We've got an immersion blender so we can throw a large variety of vegetables in without our texture-sensitive kids complaining, too. The remarks towards Mikkel's cooking always grated on me a little bit.  Like especially when Reynir found decade old canned tuna better.

[Róisín]

I think Minna may not have had a great amount of knowledge about either subsistence farm cooking and household economics, nor about real-world provisioning of expeditions. For a young person without that experience, (because Minna is so brilliant we tend to forget her youth), I don’t think she did too badly. My youngest son, another person who became independent early because of his brilliance at art and music, and grew up to be a farmer and landscape designer whose farm was largely funded by his art and music, used to be horrified by the inexperience at dealing with the practicalities of life of his friends from art school! Then, I was a subsistence-farm kid who tried to teach my kids everything I knew, and all of them spent a lot of their childhoods in the Australian Outback, so they grew up knowing a lot of this stuff.

[NightMareMage]

My big question about the dreamworld is how it impacts mages.  If they do too much at night do they end up tired during the day? When we first saw Lalli in it it looked like he was sleeping - do mages need to sleep within their haven?  Do mages ever have normal dreams?

I know we see Lalli having normal dreams, but I think we only see Reynir have 1 or 2 visions without any normal dreams nor do we see him sleep in his haven. I think we see Onni rest in his at least once.

My headcanon is that Finnish mages can have normal dreams when they sleep in their havens or when they are very tired they might bypass waking in the Dreamworld to normal dreams (with shared dreams working a bit differently) and that Icelandic mages do not have normal dreams, just Dreamworld, or visions, or dreamless sleep (while still being in the Dreamworld).

[dreki]

I know we see Lalli having normal dreams, but I think we only see Reynir have 1 or 2 visions without any normal dreams nor do we see him sleep in his haven. I think we see Onni rest in his at least once.

My headcanon is that Finnish mages can have normal dreams when they sleep in their havens or when they are very tired they might bypass waking in the Dreamworld to normal dreams (with shared dreams working a bit differently) and that Icelandic mages do not have normal dreams, just Dreamworld, or visions, or dreamless sleep (while still being in the Dreamworld).

This does seem to be the case.  If so you'd think children having no dreams would be a big sign of them being mages.  I still wonder how Icelanders are recognized as being mages, since they likely can't hear the voices from the silent world from being too far away.

[NightMareMage]

Do Icelandic mages hear the voices? We are told that Finnish mages do, and we see Emil struggle with it when Lalli is in his head but doesn't Reynir only hear Sleipnope?