Author Topic: Thoughts on the End of SSSS  (Read 24678 times)

ScrimmyBingusPSVitaPort

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2021, 05:25:59 PM »
So this might be controversial, but with the hindsight of both adventures (recently caught up on 2, so many bears...) I'm getting the feeling that adventure 2 shouldn't have been made. I really liked the earlier parts of it but looking at it compared to adventure 1, it really feels like Minna had lost the passion for it and was just going through the motions. I know she had ideas for more adventures, but adventure 1 works pretty well as a stand alone story, albeit with a few loose ends.

thorny

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2021, 06:06:30 PM »
I suspect that when Minna started adventure 2 she was still really into it, and at that point was still expecting to continue on with further adventures after this one. The relationships of the characters at the beginning, and through that whole long stretch in which Lalli opened up to others about what had happened to his community, with the time and attention paid to what that community was like and how it worked before everything came apart -- I don't think she was just going through the motions then, I think she still loved what she was doing.

ScrimmyBingusPSVitaPort

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2021, 06:22:13 PM »
That would make sense, the Iceland parts of adventure 2 were definitely a high point IMO.

Jitter

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2021, 12:34:26 PM »
I feel the same as Thorny, and based on various discussions I think many others do too. It seems to be during this adventure, not at the beginning, that the spark was lost or at least severely dimmed.

It is telling how, when she announced she will be moving to other things, she promised to take Adv 2 to a _decent_ end. That was decent of her, but of course I would have preferred it to be more than that. Still, I definitely prefer a decent ending instead of just dropping it in the middle of the story.

All in all I still am happier that she did Adventure 2 like this, than not at all. But that’s just my view.
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ScrimmyBingusPSVitaPort

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2021, 03:24:36 PM »
I guess my view on adventure 2's latter half is negatively biased after certain "faith related" events made my lose my faith in Minna's writing. So I'm not really being fair to the most recent chapters. Additionally (not trying to get inflammatory, just offering more of my perspective), if adventure 2 was never made I probably would have gotten whatever volumes had been printed in 2018 (when I started reading) and be satisfied, I probably never would've stuck around long enough to see what had happened back in April. I guess my perspective's pretty selfish, but this is at least twice now that a webcomic creator I looked up to turned out to be an unpleasant person. It didn't hurt nearly as much as the first time, but it was still pretty disappointing. Maybe I can get a second hand copy of volume 2 of adventure 1 off of ebay...

lwise

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2021, 03:35:51 PM »
I think the real problem with this adventure is the slow pacing.  Every scene seems drawn out far too long.  I didn't feel that the first adventure had that problem.

thorny

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2021, 06:11:14 PM »
I guess my view on adventure 2's latter half is negatively biased after certain "faith related" events made my lose my faith in Minna's writing.

I suspect that it was also those events, or at any rate the change in faith that caused them, which caused her to lose interest in SSSS.

Some people are quite capable of holding faith in their religion while writing, loving, and sympathizing with characters who don't share that faith and even worlds in which it's basically irrelevant. Other people aren't. Minna may unfortunately be in the second category. (yes I'm sure there are people in the middle --)

wavewright62

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2021, 10:40:22 PM »
As already mentioned by others, Adv. 2 started quite well.  The "It" storyline was first introduced all the way back in Reynir's introduction in 2015, and supposedly Tuuri's death was necessary to advance its resolution.  (And, I *guess*? To provide a reason for Onni to bargain with the Swan? Kinda? I guess we'll see.)  That story was the impetus for Adventure 2; it had to be told.

There is the thinnest, barest, least satisfying pretext for Sigrun and Mikkel to be there.  Part of the malaise of this Adventure was their presence.  I love Sigrun & Mikkel as characters, but they seriously needed to go their own way. Even the new characters that were introduced spoke only to them, and this was not their story!  Emil was easily written in to go along, he is not the problem, and a case could be made for Reynir chasing after Onni.
I admit that in the face of any troll they came across, we would all say 'omg I wish Sigrun was here' but the story would have been so much tighter with just the two (maybe 3) of them. 

Except for the bears.  I get that a BRIEF return just to see off Surma and the bears' storyline should happen, but yeah.  With her cubs thoroughly dead-dead and no longer in need of her protection, you'd'a thunk she'd run off into the woods to mourn.  Would a bear, even a beast bear, be capable of vengeance? 

She had pacing issues in Adv. 1 too - she found herself needing to get the crew close enough to their pick-up point that they could walk there.  However, they picked up the antagonists way back at the beginning point.  So we had the spectre (geddit?) of ghosts following them doggedly for weeks in canon to get to their battle point, and then the plot had to twiddle its collective thumbs for two weeks to allow Tuuri's incubation period for the infection.  Then there were two streams to follow, and thenwegottothepickuppointhooraytheend.

Now, where I agree with ScrimmyBingus, is that Minna didn't actually script Adv 2 out in advance as she probably had Adv. 1.  She had some vague plot points to intersect - Onni goes on quest for Grandma, obtains Tuuri's assistance as a soul, Lalli & Reynir come to his aid to repay Onni's assistance when they were in Denmark, Grandma freed.  Suddenly having to accomplish that, she had difficulties.
I think she had the idea for the Sentinel Mages and had figured out where to intersect that into the story.  I think she had the idea for the Hotakainen backstory, but not the nuts 'n' bolts of how to present it. She came upon an interesting hook of presenting it as 'a time-travel dream that they all share!' which was cute but weird, especially with the bits that Lalli-the-child would never have seen himself. (note: the brief flash of anger Lalli exhibited at Emil 'it's happening all over again' - the flash of a fist against the garment - didn't happen in the flashback, sorry)  I think Surma was not originally meant to be just a troll.  I don't think she'd thought through exactly how or when Onni travels to Tuonela.

I think she orignally had a plan for why exactly she needed Tuuri to be dead to accomplish Onni's goal, hence the insistence for years beforehand that Tuuri's death was crucial for the plot.  I don't buy that it was crucial to Onni getting the cojones to go on the quest, for Tuuri to be dead and no longer needing his protection.  But I think that perhaps Minna's burgeoning faith caused her to have second thoughts about Onni's plan (perhaps involving dark rites that would make a Christian uncomfortable?).  For what actually happened in canon, Onni's dead father or uncle would have served the purpose just as well as Tuuri, maybe better. 

Any of us who have written long-form fiction get to that point where you don't know quite what to do to get from point A to point Z.  You know all kinds of cool stuff that happens at point Z, but you also know that you can't just go there in the second chapter, the end.  I postulate that Minna believed herself committed to telling a story she was no longer mentally committed to, and did not seek objective advice on the matter.
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thorny

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2021, 10:53:02 AM »
I also wonder about Surma. Surma is made a very Big Deal, and a huge mystery -- and then its only purpose to the story turns out to be to distract Mama Bear from the crew? That's weird. We didn't get much backstory to the Kade, but we did get a little. I was expecting at least that much backstory for Surma, but we've had nothing at all.

Sol

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2021, 05:31:18 AM »
Prepare for a long and whiny post

I have discovered SSSS in April, but I have been seeing the art while scrolling through Pinterest many times before (I even started reading it, but my poor English back then didn't allow me to understand everything so I gave up) After a year or so, I found it again. I remember how the title interested me, and the art, I couldn't believe that the WHOLE comic was illustrated like this. I think one of the first arts I saw was Lalli in the dream space and the "Hour of the wolf" artwork. So I came back and binge-read the whole thing, and was stunned. I have never found a comic that would fit my aesthetic so much. I was in love with all the characters, how they were drawn and written. I was so hyped and I noticed that there was a second part of the comic! And the video game, joining two things I love- SSSS and cyberpunk. Later on, I joined the SSSS Discord and drew my first fanart of Lalli. In the meanwhile, I started reading adv II. What I noticed was that none of the characters seemed to be impressed by what happened in the Silent Lands. And then, I got to the part when the gang entered the building to hide from the bear. I noticed "short Sigrun" on the stairs and felt so very disappointed. Then, I have learnt about Lovely people and that the COH won't be developed anymore (when the devlog disappeared I went through the WayBack machine, Minna's blog collected and organised all I have found)

And from that time on I could only see the story decreasing in terms of art and storytelling. It looks as if the author completely lost passion for the comic and do it as a chore. I could understand that maybe the pages are easier to draw this way. Bears, bears some more bears, the Kade which is not terrifying at all and so on. (I have complained about that many times on the SSSS Discord) To my mind, the new pages look weirdly rushed

But, despite all that I still love SSSS AdvI and the beginning of IInd adventure and draw fanarts. Thanks to this comic I actually improved my inking skills- I have never drawn that many fanarts for any piece of media. I also got interested in Scandinavian culture and languages and found new hobbies, such as writing and learning Norwegian. Since April, SSSS became very important for me and seeing it end this way is just sad. I only hope that after it ends the fandom won't die out. I have some SSSS-themed projects in advance, but I'm sure of one thing. I will miss the unique atmosphere the old comic had.

One last thing, I regret not joining the fandom earlier *sighs*

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2021, 02:15:43 PM »
Solveig, do stick around! We are determined to keep the Forum going. We'll have the fanworks to hold and expand, and we are planning to do a forum re-read of Adventure 1, and so on and so fort. On the forum we are also in the process of finding new content that may be of interest to SSSS fans, most notably the Comic of the Month thread at this point.

So, you are not late from the fandom :) We intend to stick around!
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wavewright62

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2021, 02:41:59 AM »
Solveig, I have seen your drawings on Discord and adore your talent.  I agree that there's a lot still to love, even though 2021 has not been as satisfying.
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Suominoita

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2021, 08:20:00 AM »
 My guess as to why Tuuri: Onni doesn't want anyone with authority over him around before Grandma Ensi is released (also why he tried to avoid Väinö I guess). His younger sister though... well, now that's someone who wouldn't be telling him what to do, but can do what is needed, what with being dead already.

That his helpers ended up being the Swan, Lalli and Reynir -- well, that wasn't his plan at all. Actually he didn't seem to know what exactly he was doing as it was. Something an older relative would have told him off for and probably forbidden the whole journey.
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Kevin_Redcrow

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2021, 11:36:02 PM »
As disappointing as the quality of the latter part of Adventure 2 is, I believe Ms. Sundberg pressed on and finished it as a well-intended gesture to the fandom. I'm saying this as one who had not quite reached the point of reading her blogs; fans who do read them know better than I. 

I had planned to read the blogs, until some bunnies hopped along.

If Ms. Sundberg decides on a more moderate spiritual worldview, perhaps we will see an interesting project with a different setting than all her prior works.

SSSS was the 4th or 5th graphic novel i encountered online by a Finnish artist. I enjoy seeing that comic art can fall into a "National School". French, Dutch, Japanese, English, Canadian, and American comic art seem to each have a distinct flavor (Don't know if I got the grammar correct in that last sentence).

In this regard, the artist who does A Year In Hereafter has what looks like to me a style very closely resembling Ms. Sundberg's. Were the latter to sell the rights to continue SSSS, I would nominate the former to take over. YIH also leans heavily of Finnish Folklore as the background for the story.

As to the forum and the commentariat: I was mildly tempted to join the commentariat, but I dithered. Then I decided that I would not quite fit in, in the long run. My online persona vacillates between benevolent and caustic as it does in Real Time/Space.  I do not mean that I would intentionally flame somebody. Those of you who have read my remarks on the Bunny Comic Thread know that when I have a bad reaction to events and circumstances I can be very spiky.

Although when that racist, sexist poster who called himself Rabbi Blabbabogdonavich or something, showed up, I was very tempted to rethink my policy on flaming.

I believe I did join this forum very soon before the Bunny Comic. When that was published, I thought, "Oh [human excrement], I'm just going to vent my spleen until this thread dies and then not come back.

Well, here I am. I want you to know that I admire you regular long time forum members who have demonstrated only good will. Good will is something I admire but will not attain in this lifetime. 

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Re: Thoughts on the End of SSSS
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2021, 03:13:16 AM »
SSSS was the 4th or 5th graphic novel i encountered online by a Finnish artist. I enjoy seeing that comic art can fall into a "National School". French, Dutch, Japanese, English, Canadian, and American comic art seem to each have a distinct flavor (Don't know if I got the grammar correct in that last sentence).

In this regard, the artist who does A Year In Hereafter has what looks like to me a style very closely resembling Ms. Sundberg's. Were the latter to sell the rights to continue SSSS, I would nominate the former to take over. YIH also leans heavily of Finnish Folklore as the background for the story.

I've also noticed this! Minna and the artist for YIH for one. I think the author might've been inspired by Minna, considering the publishing date and, as I've heard but not seen, the appearance of Reynir? Also, a lot of popular Finnish artists seem to know a great deal about painting nature, but I think that might veer a little too close to speculation. But nature's a pretty big deal in Finland :P

Now that the forum's inspecting other comics of interest, I feel a little more at ease seeing both Finnish and non-Finnish comics that do so much better at representation and focus mostly on character development. Sticking to just SSSS was kind of limiting myself, though to be fair I didn't really know where to start. Another benefit has been seeing other approaches to page composition, visual storytelling, and symbolism, since it was pretty inflexible with SSSS.

Side note, Minna's made it pretty clear that she doesn't intend for other people to complete things she started. I'm fine with that, honestly. But hypothetically, YIH does look visually close.

Well, here I am. I want you to know that I admire you regular long time forum members who have demonstrated only good will. Good will is something I admire but will not attain in this lifetime. 

Eeeeeee... Minna's actions kind of used up any remaining goodwill I had. But she has her boundaries and even if that bunny comic personally insulted someone, she probably wasn't willing to have a debate about it anyway. It's more just energy better spent elsewhere.

But, despite all that I still love SSSS AdvI and the beginning of IInd adventure and draw fanarts. Thanks to this comic I actually improved my inking skills- I have never drawn that many fanarts for any piece of media. I also got interested in Scandinavian culture and languages and found new hobbies, such as writing and learning Norwegian. Since April, SSSS became very important for me and seeing it end this way is just sad. I only hope that after it ends the fandom won't die out. I have some SSSS-themed projects in advance, but I'm sure of one thing. I will miss the unique atmosphere the old comic had.

One last thing, I regret not joining the fandom earlier *sighs*

Solveig, I've only seen the bit of your art that's appeared on tumblr, but I think it's great and I totally get the feeling of just? learning how to do art from SSSS? This community was just super welcoming when I started posting things, IDK.

(I love your inking though <3)

Anyway, it's far from too late to join the fandom. The fact is people still love the characters, and you can still engage with the story as you choose. The specifics of that kind of debate are difficult, though, but ultimately it's up to you.

Spoiler: personal thoughts on the topic • show

A handful of people have probably spent a load of money on SSSS books, and I know that's given a few of my friends a lot of conflicting emotions recently. But also how could they have known? For me, I'm mostly at peace with talking about SSSS until the end here, since this is a pretty closed environment and most of the regular forum users have worked together to figure out what comes next. It pretty much just comes down to if I'm contributing to giving her a mouthpiece or supporting her financially, which I hope I am not doing :V


I hope that you still keep your passion for doing art, even if it's for SSSS after it's become totally different from what you first saw.