Author Topic: WIP Me into Finishing This Art  (Read 12064 times)

catbirds

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2021, 04:17:34 AM »
Also several of the old masters had students working on the backgrounds and in large parts of the entire work!

The more I hear about these "old masters," the more convinced I am that I should just draw on a photo (that I took) and sell it as an artwork :> (I'm sure that technique already exists lol)

I guess "work smarter, not harder" really is the way to go for art!

Kitty

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2021, 05:08:40 AM »
WOW Sevseres!!! I love the comic, it's very atmospheric and well-done! Color schemes are on point!!


ah yes, camera lucida. why paint when you can just trace nature?

Kitty Lovely color choices, I like where this is going. Is there anything you're getting hung up on we can help?

Thank you <3 I'll get back to her again soon, as i s h o u l d.
Issue is, i decided to make her SOFF but i never did anything like that. eyes? my first attempt at making eyes like that. same with beads and stuff. Hair is murder. I'll figure it out sooner or later.


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JoB

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2021, 05:10:59 AM »
The more I hear about these "old masters," the more convinced I am that I should just draw on a photo (that I took) and sell it as an artwork :> (I'm sure that technique already exists lol)
Welcome to the assembly line work of art ... >:D
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Sc0ut

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2021, 05:56:51 AM »
I feel like before this thread gets too "the old masters (and maybe current ones as well) are just overrated hacks" it's worth mentioning that most of the techniques that from a distance may look like cheating do actually take skill to apply properly. Any digital artist probably knows what I mean - some non-artists are dismissive of digital art because they think "the computer does everything" while those of us who actually work in the field know that's extremely far from true. 

If we are to talk about "assembly line work" in art there's probably no better example than American superhero comics, which have broken down the process of making a comic into many specialised roles: writing, pencils, inking and colouring are all normally done by different people in a rather short amount of time, using characters and an universe that someone else designed a long time ago. But even if it can be called "assembly line work" due to the process, this still takes a lot of skill to accomplish (even if said comics are not to everyone's taste).

And it's also worth mentioning that there are artists who don't trace (probably a majority), and there always were. The process of making art is very personal, and dependent on the specific person's strengths and weaknesses, as well as their living situation. For instance, commercial demands may drive an artist to use shortcuts they normally would not resort to, just because they need to work a bit faster and feed their family (or heck, themselves). And the requirement to work both very fast and to very exacting standards has only increased since we have started creating long form animation, video games and similar projects that (usually) have large art teams working together towards the same goal. It's never been a terribly well paid profession, except maybe for those at the very top, and even that is not always a given.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 06:10:09 AM by Sc0ut »

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2021, 07:34:11 AM »
Sc0ut, you are absolutely right! I don’t think anyone really means that the old masters or anyone were just stupid cheaters, though :) Rather it’s intended (my comment about their students certainly was) as consolation for people hitting themselves in the head going “I should have been able to finish this a long time ago”. Just as a reminder that you do you, even (some of) the old masters took their time and/or used other resources.

As comes to the work by students, it’s still a testament to the master’s skill to be able to direct them in the use of color and lighting like that. The works are still brilliant, although from a modern perspective it would perhaps seem fairer that all who actually contributed were known :)

Also, start considering which airport you’d like to rule. The list of already selected ones can be found in the first post of the Promotion Celebration thread. Just one more post to go!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 07:35:44 AM by Jitter »
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moredhel

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2021, 07:49:40 AM »
As comes to the work by students, it’s still a testament to the master’s skill to be able to direct them in the use of color and lighting like that.

In extreme cases, they could be better techers than artists. Like Andrea del Verrocchio. Most people do not remamber his works, but some of his students are well known. Among those were Perugino, Lorenzo di Credi, Sandro Boticelli and Leonardo da Vinci.

Songbird

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2021, 11:11:46 AM »
Omg I was sure I had seen a nice comic here but couldn't locate it when writing my post because pffft eyes, what are they for?

sevseres I like where this was going! These backgrounds look good for all stress you seem to have experienced painting them.

I can count the times I've draw comics on my hand so take any advice in this regard with an extra dose of salt, but I feel making the process as frictionless as possible is a good way to ensure you can power through to the end. You have two major ways of achieving that comfortable spot to make it happen:

1. Practice backgrounds in this style to get yourself more familiar with the ups and downs of the process. This likely doesn't equal to doing fully finished paintings; when you're not used to do. backgrounds. period. doing quick 15-30 min studies helps a lot in getting comfortable with the act of drawing environments.

2. Experiment with different ways of doing them. A lot of amazing comics spare themselves from the trouble of doing backgrounds at all when in close up panels yet look absolutely fabulous! I have no idea what's your preferred coloring style but you've got a lot of room to play with that linework style. It's worth playing with styles to find something either more satisfying or less demanding that still clicks with your aesthetic preferences.

All in all, you captured my curiosity with those pages. I'd like to see more comics from you!


tzelly Glad to help! Those two places are good to find answers to "How do I... in Blender?". I can't vouch personally for any tutorial series because tutorials aren't exactly my cup of tea but I heard Blender Guru is pretty good.

Kitty Go for it! The unexpected discoveries that happen when you have fun with styles and drawing new things is one of the best parts of doing art imho.



Re Old Masters: Yeah, my beef is with the unrealistic expectations of our time, really. Working smarter is good! Drawing and paintings is a big mental effort—I've taken to calling it mental raytracing of late, borrowing from 3D, because that's what artists are doing. It drives the point of how absurd to expect humans to effortlessly do what takes ages for a computer!

And there is a physical toll to be considered as my hands can attest.

catbirds

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2021, 01:21:25 PM »
And it's also worth mentioning that there are artists who don't trace (probably a majority), and there always were. The process of making art is very personal, and dependent on the specific person's strengths and weaknesses, as well as their living situation.

Yeah, I don't trace as a general rule because I like when things I draw look kind of shaky and skewed, but also I don't make a living off art (actually, I don't make a living at all) so it's a bit different. But seeing or hearing about techniques that artists use to pull off textures (e.g. Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask key artwork having textures from pictures overlaid on various surfaces, photobashing for painting REALLY nice scenery) makes me tempted to use pictures myself! I've always sucked at photo manipulation and 3d modelling, though, so I'm not too keen on it because I always remember that I'll probably make it look worse that way?

And, of course, like Songbird said, it's good to be kind to your hands :)

Sc0ut

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2021, 02:22:12 PM »
@catbirds, if you find the thought of incorporating pictures into your art inspiring in any way, go for it! It can be a learning experience even if it turns out not to be for you in the long run. Besides, nobody is born good at anything - getting better at photo manipulation is definitely something you can learn, if you want to. I've occasionally used photo textures myself, though I don't anymore since I've settled into a style where they would very rarely fit - still, the experience taught me some Photoshop techniques I might not have discovered otherwise.

Sevseres

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2021, 03:53:12 PM »
@Songbird first of all, can i just, mention how cool you are? Because you’re so cool XoX Throwing around all those gold art tips like it’s nothing! Being so nice while doing so! And that bird! On your picture! It screams! You are a such cool person Songbird.

Second of all doing 15-20 min sceneries sound like just what I need. I would be able to take a break from All This(TM) and I wouldn’t be able to get lost in the piece. Thanks!

Also thank you too @Kitty ! I’m glad you liked it.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 03:56:44 PM by sevseres »
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Mirasol

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2021, 04:00:07 PM »
Now this is a very useful thread!

All of you have phrased so much good advice for all of the things in here way better than I ever could, so let me just add here: all those pieces look really good already and definitly deserve to be finished! I really enjoyed looking at them and reading through the discussion so far!

I´m a notorious art-abandoner myself, so let me share something too: (let´s start small, as I don´t have a lot of time on my hands currently.)

Context of this being:
For the sketchbook I´m currently filling I set myself the rule of only being allowed to start the next drawing when I finish the previous one. I didn´t want this sketchbook to end up mainly being filled with drawings that are essentially only a few lines again, like all my previous sketchbooks. I know I won´t finish something when there´s a shiny new thing to draw.
Well, I broke that rule once, and guess what happened?

This is said drawing. A couple of years ago (yes, I didn´t continue this for years... ^^") I was wayyy in the Voltron Legendary Defender-fandom, and attempted to sort of redraw a scene. But I was too lazy to look up references/couldn´t find any good ones and it never got beyond the sketching part (with a very light pencil, to top it off). I lost interest in the show a long time ago, but that the drawing is the one thing that isn´t finished in the entire sketchbook bothers me immensly whenever I look at it, so I could use a bit of encouragement to pick it up again.

Spoiler: drawing and original scene • show


(please excuse the poor quality, I tried my best to at least make the sketch visible.)

It was supposed to be a redraw of this scene (well, not exactly this, a bit later in the scene, but I couldn´t find a screenshot of that):
It´s taken from season 1, episode 9, and my main motication was the background being so beautiful. And I stand by that. Voltron was a lot of things that aren´t that great, but it was definitly pretty to look at.

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Opaque

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2021, 07:12:13 PM »
Now this is interesting. Recently I haven't started something I didn't finish but maybe I should go check my older stuff. Maybe redraw some things. And now I'm interested in snooping at other peoples stuff. Haha.

catbirds

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2021, 12:58:11 AM »
Sc0ut, thanks for the advice! I think I'll try something with photobashing next time I get the chance. It's still a pretty weird technique to integrate into a drawing, but I'll make something small and simple to start.

You and Songbird give some great advice in these art threads, in some cases I feel like I've learned more practical advice than all my time in art class.

Mirasol, that's a very cute drawing! I understand, I also have a sketchbook full of unfulfilled sketches, but to me, it's more effective to use your sketchbook as a sieve for finding your best ideas. As long as you're finishing something!

I feel kind of out of place replying here so much without actually posting (incomplete) art. Here you go

Spoiler: art • show



It feels pretty cursed (in the internet sense) for me to say this was meant to be the first chapter cover for a comic with animal protagonists about an issue the world is facing at the moment because of capitalism (because of That Comic), but I thought of this a while ago and I've been fiddling around with scenery for it for ages. My plan's to start drawing once the semester ends, but again, Feels Pretty CursedTM so I'm pretty uneasy about starting at all. Anyway, this was a test page to see if I should use watercolour or try using gouache, which I only started using recently. I'll probably just write this off as concept art and move on because I ended up not being too fond of the composition anyway.

tzelly

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2021, 04:37:30 PM »
catbirds
water color and gouache work great together! I've also been trying to get the hang of them myself.   :)
I really like the tilt of the image, a really strong start for a painting! (if you want any critique, I can take a closer look at it)

and I like the idea of the comic. If you feel like you need to get it out of your system (as a form of self therapy) then go for it! If your worried about how it will be received, then just wait until your comfortable sharing.
Is there any specific aspic of the comic that is concerning you?

catbirds

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Re: WIP Me into Finishing This Art
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2021, 01:57:03 PM »
water color and gouache work great together! I've also been trying to get the hang of them myself.   :)
I really like the tilt of the image, a really strong start for a painting! (if you want any critique, I can take a closer look at it)

I've never thought of combining the two, my thought was it'd look weird because one was opaque while the other was transparent! I did use a purple to darken some gouache for a still life a while ago, though, and it worked quite well! But I haven't used it for any other purpose. Gouache is a medium which I see a lot of good, cute paintings of, especially ones of nature, animals, and the like. Unfortunately I don't have the technical skill to pull those off, but they're very inspirational to look at. If you have any tips for it, you should tell me!

(I'm totally open to critique haha, especially if it's on technique or composition because my education in art has been utterly lacking in those respects.)

and I like the idea of the comic. If you feel like you need to get it out of your system (as a form of self therapy) then go for it! If your worried about how it will be received, then just wait until your comfortable sharing.
Is there any specific aspic of the comic that is concerning you?

I don't want to bring discussion of the bunny comic into this thread, but it's basically just seeing how (in my opinion) terribly a story of a similar premise could be handled that got me doubting myself REALLY hard. My idea was more about the environment, though. I'll still finish it because, like you said, I need to "get it out of my system" and maybe I'll share it with some people I know just to get feedback :P