Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'

[Róisín]

refract3d, good to see you again. I remember you.

[anuran]

...Ugh. Got my first Facebook ad for Lovely People. when I inquired why I was getting the ad, it said that the author was using targeted advertising for webcomic readers and folks over 16.

I don't know. It's one thing for this comic to be their little proclamation of narrow-band christian-themed cult beliefs, another to blow funds promoting the comic on social media.

Especially since the whole point of Lovely People seems to be about how that exact form of targeted social media advertising is inherently evil, and leads people away from the homespun purity of paper bibles or something? Both she and her sect need more consistent messaging.

Easily blocked, but just a heads up.

Minna's hypocrisy abounds.

Yeah, that one bothered me. The bloodiest religion in human history which wiped out all of the indigenous religions of the entire Western Hemisphere plus Europe, Australia, most of Africa, and a good chunk of Asia making up fables about how they're the Real Victims and oppressed by awful, awful society. A hundred generations of my ancestors would laugh bitterly if they didn't cry. A hundred generations who were tortured, persecuted, vilified, exiled, r**ed, and subjected to genocide at the hands of Christendom for the awful crime of keeping their ancestral faith.

[Aprillen]

Yeah, that one bothered me. The bloodiest religion in human history which wiped out all of the indigenous religions of the entire Western Hemisphere plus Europe, Australia, most of Africa, and a good chunk of Asia making up fables about how they're the Real Victims and oppressed by awful, awful society. A hundred generations of my ancestors would laugh bitterly if they didn't cry. A hundred generations who were tortured, persecuted, vilified, exiled, r**ed, and subjected to genocide at the hands of Christendom for the awful crime of keeping their ancestral faith.

^^THIS
What Christendom has done to the rest of the world is at the very least spiritual colonialism, but very often in collusion with the military and economic colonialism of their Western non-ecclesiastical counterparts.

[Róisín]

As someone who has retained her ancestral faith against heavy odds, I can tell you it is a constant battle.

[GMantis]

Yeah, that one bothered me. The bloodiest religion in human history which wiped out all of the indigenous religions of the entire Western Hemisphere plus Europe, Australia, most of Africa, and a good chunk of Asia making up fables about how they're the Real Victims and oppressed by awful, awful society. A hundred generations of my ancestors would laugh bitterly if they didn't cry. A hundred generations who were tortured, persecuted, vilified, exiled, r**ed, and subjected to genocide at the hands of Christendom for the awful crime of keeping their ancestral faith.

Christianity being the bloodiest religion in human history doesn't exclude Christianity itself being persecuted, as multiple contemporary examples clearly show. In fact, there are probably fewer countries today where Christianity is imposed over other religions compared to those where Christianity is persecuted. Of course, this is not the case in Western countries, but the comic is after all meant to be a dystopia. As unlikely as it seems, Christianity can be prosecuted even where it is dominant. For an example, in 1914 no one would have imagined that the Eastern Orthodox Church would be persecuted in Russia where it dominated completely at the time. And yet this is what happened in less than a decade later.

So while one can certainly levy many charges against "Lovely people", accusing them of demeaning other religions just due to the choice of victims is unfair.

[Annuil]

Thank you for posting this, GMantis, I totally agree with you.

[ohnosir]

Hello all, not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I have a thought here. I'm a bisexual, native American living in the southern US, so having people tell me I'm going to hell is old hat to me at this point. But as an inspiring webcomicker, this whole saga has brought up a lot of fears for me..

I know it all seems rather compressed to me as a new reader, but catching up on SSSS and going back to read aRTD and seeing Minna's excitement for this comic and (in my eyes) her sudden drop in passion for SSSS once she discovered (in her narrow definitiion) "true Christianity" leading to LP...I've started to get worried about what if this happens to me. My own project is the most important thing to me right now. What if I get partway through it and suddenly lose interest in favor of something else? What if the themes I hold so dear suddenly pale in comparison to some newfound faith or moralistic direction? I mean I'm a pretty dyed-in-the-wool atheist but I guess Minna was too up until recently.

Do any creators (comics, art, writing or other media) worry about this too?

**I'm posting here bc the whole LP deal struck these cords in me, aside from the other disturbances over the evangelizing that have been expressed by everyone else about a thousand times! lmk if this belongs somewhere else though

[moredhel]

This is the reason why I never do long running projects. The idea of losing interest when it is not done and than giving up all work time and creativity that went into it or finishing it without liking to do so both seems to be horrible,

[Keep Looking]

I know it all seems rather compressed to me as a new reader, but catching up on SSSS and going back to read aRTD and seeing Minna's excitement for this comic and (in my eyes) her sudden drop in passion for SSSS once she discovered (in her narrow definitiion) "true Christianity" leading to LP...I've started to get worried about what if this happens to me. My own project is the most important thing to me right now. What if I get partway through it and suddenly lose interest in favor of something else? What if the themes I hold so dear suddenly pale in comparison to some newfound faith or moralistic direction? I mean I'm a pretty dyed-in-the-wool atheist but I guess Minna was too up until recently.

It's definitely tricky to grapple with whether you'll be able to maintain interest in a long-term project: however, there are plenty of creators who do manage to maintain interest - I've seen several very long-form webcomics come to their completion. Just because it's happened to one creator doesn't mean it'll happen to you.

And also, like - it's actually okay to lose interest in a project. It's okay to stop things. The way it's happened with Minna is particularly tragic, because of her dramatic ideological shift and the way in which she is rushing the end of the comic, but like - sometimes you change, and sometimes you lose interest in things, and that's okay. Additionally, sometimes you have projects that you're still interested in or want to continue, but they don't have the same spark they did early-on, and that's also okay: you don't need to be consumed with passion in order to enjoy or continue a project.

I do think it also might be important (if you don't mind the advice) to make sure your project isn't at the entire centre of your life - because if you centre everything around one project, that can mean that if or when your interest starts to wane it can be hard to maintain motivation. This isn't to say you shouldn't take on important projects that you're passionate about, just that - it's important to have other things in your life, too? Minna worked for a very long time on SSSS with very few breaks, and I think that might be part of the reason why she's fallen away from interest so dramatically.

[Jitter]

ohnosir, I agree with everything Keep said! It's not like you have to keep going no matter what. Many things may and do happen to authors, switching interest is one (and a legitimate one at that) but there are many others. Health and family reasons for example. There are never guarantees that you will finish anything you start. Whether this should deter you from starting is of course a decision you have to make yourself. But to me it seems a pity to limit oneself due to what is essentially fear of the future. Your story has power onto itself now, and you have every right to explore it for as long as it feels like the right thing to do.

Over the recent years there has been some unfortunate discussion around the issue. Particularly as concerns George R. R. Martin, who has been getting what basically amounts to hate mail from fans, for having the audacity to live his life instead of sitting in a chamber writing the books. A couple of comments on Minna's change of heart have had some echoes of the same sentiment too (not in this thread, if I recall correctly, but in some few comments elsewhere). As an avid fan of SSSS, I must admit I felt, and still do, sorry for us fans (for myself) and disappointed to learn there will be no Adventure 3. Still, we did get this much. It is a lot.

I wonder if this should go into the Academy board, as it has more to do with being an artist than LP as such? Keep what do you think?

[thorny]

If, in general, people didn't start long projects for fear of not being able to fnish them: there wouldn't be any long projects, whether in artwork or anything else. And we'd all miss a great deal (if we even survived.)

Life doesn't come with guarantees. Any given long project could get dropped in the middle because the author gets hit by the proverbial truck. Or, yes, because they lose interest. That's not IMO any reason not to start one.

I'm not ticked off at Minna for losing interest -- sad, but not angry. I'm only ticked off at her for insulting her readers, and for continuing deceptiveness in how she's representing Lovely People.

[Keep Looking]

I wonder if this should go into the Academy board, as it has more to do with being an artist than LP as such? Keep what do you think?

I think it could probably remain here for now, since it is fairly short and still related/responding to LP, but if the discussion about large creative projects continues as something people are interested in discussing then we can move it to the academy. That sound good to you?

[Róisín]

Pretty much what thorny said, with the additional note that as a lifelong Pagan I find Minna’s condescending attitude insulting and dishonest, which disappoints me - I had been aware that she was Christian, but I had thought better of her than this. She appears to believe that one particular brand of Christianity is the One True Way, and that she has a duty to proselytise. As a Pagan I believe that proselytising of any kind is wrong, religious faith being a matter between the individual soul and their god or gods, and I mind being so lightly assigned to the Christian Hell by somebody who knows nothing of me - I see the attitude as a form of ‘everybody knows how Those People are’, whether ‘Those People’ are black, brown, gay, pagan or just a different flavour of Christian.

Understand that I have no problem with Christians who don’t try to force or deceive others into converting to their faith - I am married to one. But I mind the disrespect.

[catbirds]

ohnosir, I actually went through the exact same mini-crisis after discussion of LP started heating up, just because I had a story in mind that featured animal characters and strong... themes, like, it has a theme that's strong (strongly put forth), that's the only overlap, the theme itself is totally different. But I went through the same process of thinking, oh no, what if it's a Bad Take or what if I change my mind halfway and it ends up a total wreck?

Anyway, in the end, my opinion is that it doesn't really matter if you actually finish a story, only that you're happy with how it turned out. It's more important than anything that you don't burn out on your creativity because being creative is really, really taxing... way more taxing than people give it credit for. Both physically and mentally and probably even emotionally. I agree with everything Keep and Jitter have said, it's super important that you constantly take a few steps back and get a look at the bigger picture or see what's going on in the world. Minna's upload schedule is kind of overkill compared to what most other artists post, and that could have been one of many factors that led to LP being LP. I think it could've been a combination of burnout, tunnel vision, fatigue, and a whole bunch of other things but that's just a bit of speculation.

So, yeah, don't feel discouraged or afraid because of the direction Minna's work went down, but also don't do all the things that can cause an artist's passion to fizzle out. Maybe plan a bit beforehand or work out a kinder schedule or whatever organizing works best for you.

And perhaps the most important advice is to take well-meaning feedback seriously, as a few other forumites told me when I expressed my concerns.

Also, for the religious side of this discussion, I think it's good to keep away from a condescending attitude in general. Minna wasn't just an atheist, she was a condescending atheist (according to her notes from the day after LP was released or something?), so it's really the denial of other perspectives that led this way. It's good to remember that everyone has their own struggles and that people experience faith (or a lack thereof) differently... and to know when people aren't willing to give you the same respect.

Anyway, sorry if this makes little to no sense or hope it helps! I just finished two assignments in a day, so my head's still spinning a bit.

[Róisín]

catbirds, you make good points. The condescension is particularly vile, and conveys disrespect at a really visceral manner.