Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'

[moredhel]

... the wife was so religious that access to her preferred version of the Bible was essential to her, but the husband had never paid any attention at all to this before and had to read it on the way home from work because he had no idea what was in it.

That was a rather funny part of the comic. What a long way he has when he can read the bible on it an can reach the new testament. I have read the bible it is a long book and parts of it are pretty hard to read.

[esedege]

[…]she's free to turn all her female characters into Homemakers and all her male characters into Heads of Household if she wants. But that's not going to produce anything that I'm going to want to read. (Yes, I'm aware that there are some who prefer to read that sort of thing.)

+1

Maybe it's my own associations coming in, but I think she tells us pretty clearly what the value attached to it is that she wants us to consider. It's 'there is only One True Way and anybody who doesn't take it is Doomed'.

(I don't think that's anywhere near the only message that can be taken from the Bible, and I know that not everyone who follows the Bible even finds that message in it. But it appears to be the message that Minna has taken.)

I agree too here, but what you say happens when you get to the afterword, not during the reading.

I’m not sure how to elaborate, I even lack the ability in Spanish to put into words this bitter aftertaste, this “how dare you play the victim” feeling. I would be horrified if Christians would be persecuted around me, but that could not be further from the truth.

During the reading, I would think it’s all a story about irony, out of the pan and into the fire kind of thing. And then you get to the very ending and the afterword and find out she’s not only dead serious, but she’s judging you for not following her god exactly the same way she does.

Even if it didn’t come out of the blue, it all feels like a face-heel turn. We’ve been reading, cheering and supporting her during years, spreading knowledge… and she despises a lot of us. I even think now that that first image she showed us of LP (A2, p369) was deliberately appealing to our emotions to make us get into it unquestioningly. Coming back to said page has make me realize there’s a “soul” in there “praying on it”, which makes all this even more funnily painful. She also says that

This is a story idea I got a couple years ago or so

So maybe when it was a draft it was not such a hateful pamphlet, as some suggested earlier. Anyway, she’s played lots of us like a fiddle whole orchestra.

I managed to gloss over that one partly because it was one throwaway line, and partly because as that was shown as part of people's massive confusion in those last couple of weeks of the old world, it wasn't even clear to me whether that was what was actually supposed to have happened, or whether she was depicting people who had no idea what was going on some of whom were blaming it on refugees without evidence.

I was more bothered by the racist-joke incident (seems a bit unfair to blame it on Emil, who himself would only have been horrendously but justifiably ignorant); but I was hoping that that was just ignorance on Minna's part combined with easily hurt feelings possibly due at least in part to her being a fairly young person who might not have been hit with that sort of pushback before. It's becoming clearer and clearer that instead of thinking it over given time and opening up she's just doubling down harder into insularity.

The refugees part is said as fact by the newsreader, who even knows they where eleven people. Don’t worry though, I consciously opted for glossing over it.

As a person who changes his mind when proven wrong*, apologizes when an apology is due* and tries not to antagonize if not needed, I’m almost glad I missed the Emil incident (no blame on him but in who puts the words in his mouth) because I could enjoy years of SSSS being none the wiser. Not glad that it happened, of course, nor about her reaction.

*Not 100% of the times, but I work hard on it.

[Vulpes]

One of the things that made so many people fall in love with these SSSS characters was that they do not conform to the gender norms.  Most newbies misgender them, in fact.

[jumps up and down shouting Yes! Yes! Yes!]

[also jumps up and down shouting Yes! Yes! Yes!]

I don't remember when I discovered SSSS, but at some point on Hiveworks I was clicking random links and dropped into the middle of this startling world where people who looked like... well, people, were going about doing interesting things in mixed-gender groups, and nobody seemed to find it the least bit odd. It was quite refreshing. Like you, thorny, this has been my experience for the most part (with some really aggravating exceptions) so it was nice seeing it in a webcomic.

wave, I'm glad you mentioned Sigrun coming off as more feminine in Adv 2, I thought maybe I was imagining it. I also think Mikkel seems more traditionally manly, too. I've been pushing those impressions away, telling myself I'm just seeing things, but perhaps I'm not. I've not been following CoH other than to glance at some art, so it's interesting to hear that also is drifting into more heteronormative territory.

Of course it can be a mistake to go back, after learning something new about someone, and look for "signs" in their earlier work. But it's hard for me to ignore the fact that I've had some niggling concerns for the past year or two, that something seemed "off". The whole LP thing has been gutting, but I think that it would have been so much worse had I not had some back-of-the-mind doubts.

[Róisín]

It is possible to largely avoid gender stereotypes in the real world, in some communities. But it depends a lot on what you do and where and when you do it. I speak from experience. When I was a young woman, it was unusual for women to even want to do the studies and jobs that interested me, and I really had to work hard and to constantly prove myself the best to be accepted at all, little say to get work in my chosen fields. Fortunately for me I am stubborn.

And what was possibly even harder was getting the idea accepted that it was possible to do both at the same time. When I first married it was very difficult to get my bosses to understand that I was not about to quit doing science just because I had married. I was just glad that I was not in one of the fields where a woman had to resign when she married. It doesn’t seem to me that having a partner and children unfits a woman for other work, but back then it often happened that women could choose a career or marriage, not both, but that often seemed to be the case. I am very glad that I was able to survive that mess with both children and a career.

[thegreyarea]

I'm here to jump up and down together with Thorny and Vulpes to Wave's excellent post, that managed to put in words one of the things that made SSSS special to me and, it seems, to many more.

I already read and posted at this thread, and there's a lot of interesting thoughts on it. I'm glad that we managed to keep the discussion civil and sure that it was important for everybody, allowing us to leave this situation better informed.

For keeping things running as smoothly as possible in this delicate moment I'd like to thank our moderators, Wave and Gweeno*, for what must have been a stressing task.

* don't know if there was anyone else involved.

A few extra thoughts on the topic, skip if already tired of this discussion:

Spoiler: show

I intend to keep following SSSS as long as it exists**, and I will surely remain in this Forum as long as it's populated by fantastic people that I admire and became important to me.

** unless Minna turns it into something intolerable, which I don't think will happen.

I'm also willing to give Minna the benefit of the doubt and try to follow her new project(s) when the time comes. I want to believe that in the future she will keep her beliefs to herself and create interesting stories and characters, even if those, as SSSS, have some issues (ethnic representation would be an example, as many already referred).

As said before I think Minna's "Statement of Faith" at the end of Lovely People is a bit childish, turning a story that could have been an interesting critic into religious propaganda. I know that it happens in other points along the story, but the end is the worst.

However it's her apparent inability to recognize that as a creator she has a responsability if some readers were hurt by her work that makes me sadder.
If I step over someone's feet and hurt that person, even if it wasn't intentional, I should apologize and try to minimize the chances of that happening again.
The same applies in this case. She could easily add a more descritive synopsis to the comic, and include an alert, particularly now that she's well aware that while some just dislike her tone and/or disagree with her, others feel deeply hurt.
She could also separate, in a clear way, her personal beliefs, stated in the afterwords, from the comic. (I would carry that last page with them, but that's me).
The part in the afterwords reproducing conspiracy theories also makes me sad for her. She should try to inform herself better, for her own good and particularly before inserting that on her work.

All that, as I said, makes me sad, because it comes from a person that gave us a fantastic world with compelling characters. A person I admire in the artistic field, that is obviously talented, capable and intelligent, and one that managed, with lots of hard work and dedication, to pursue her dream and live from her art. I do hope she finds a better path soon.

Final notes:
- I don't question her Faith, but I hope she will find a more balanced flavour and a way to live with it that is, as much as possible, separated from her work***.
- JoB, thanks for pointing at that Gospel part added on the last page. Sadly that makes it sound even more like religious propaganda... It would be more correct to put it at the first page...
- I never believed CoH would become a serious game****, so I'm not surprised that she dropped it. Nevertheless I'm sure Minna could make a good story from that.

*** As an architect, and even if I was deeply Catholic (which BTW I'm not), I wouldn't go on putting crosses over my buildings (unless it was a religious one). It's a matter of professional ethics and respect, since the outside of a building affects public space where people of different beliefs live and move.
**** Unless she dedicated much more of her time to it and/or found others to develop the idea, as I said a long time ago.

Thanks for reading my ramble. I hope it wasn't that bad...

[JoB]

Spoiler: show

- JoB, thanks for pointing at that Gospel part added on the last page. Sadly that makes it sound even more like religious propaganda...

Spoiler: show

It struck me because I don't think that any of the Christians *I* know would want to call something they wrote "the gospel", possibly not anything short of a direct Bible quote. People who aren't stern Christians lightly call something "gospel" in English (but still not in any other languages I know AFAICT) ...

By the way, Minna announced that she'll post the upcoming chapter's cover page on Mon 5th. That is a notable Christian holiday, though not all the way to a "stiller Feiertag" (restrictions on general public's leisurely activities, whether they're Christians or not) in Germany ...

[thegreyarea]

Spoiler: show

It struck me because I don't think that any of the Christians *I* know would want to call something they wrote "the gospel", possibly not anything short of a direct Bible quote. People who aren't stern Christians lightly call something "gospel" in English (but still not in any other languages I know AFAICT) ...

By the way, Minna announced that she'll post the upcoming chapter's cover page on Mon 5th. That is a notable Christian holiday, though not all the way to a "stiller Feiertag" (restrictions on general public's leisurely activities, whether they're Christians or not) in Germany ...

Spoiler: show

Agreed. Neither do I. It does sound like a publicitary slogan to me. Just replace "The Gospel" by the name of an insurance company...

But do you really have public, for-everybody, restrictions in Germany? In Portugal or Brazil they usualy are (outside these COVID times we're living) holiday times with lots of activities, people on the beach, etc...
The more religious people do tend to dedicate less time to leisure and more to prayers and family time, but I only remember grandmothers and priests telling that those were to be silent days. And the real "silent days" on Easter would be Friday and Saturday, because Sunday would be for celebration.

psst... why do we keep talking under spoilers?

[Jitter]

I notice that this discussion is winding down, which I think is largely a good thing. I have been following the thread (Disqus comments I dropped several days ago) and most of my thoughts have been presented very well here! The following contains some description of Finnish Lutheran Christian belief as I have understood it having been raised in a nominally Lutheran although very secular family, and attended Religious Studies for Lutherans in school. This does not correspond with my personal faith, but my faith is not the issue here anyways

TL;DR: I didn't like LP; I remain hopeful Minna is not in a cult; I'm mad at her for omitting any sort of warning

I'm in agreement with those of you who didn't find the story very interesting even notwithstanding the bible-thumping. The same ideas have been presented with more nuance and ingenuity by many authors and medias. Including some where I wouldn't expect them to outdo Minna in storytelling!

Like mostly everyone, I was surprised and alarmed by Minna's afterword. Some of you are very concerned for her, and certainly the way she writes her message brings into mind very conservative evangelical sects. I'm however willing to give it the benefit of a doubt and consider it's a possibility it is not that drastic. I have several reasons.

Firstly, Minna is Finnish and is writing in her third language, so it's possible not quite everything comes across exactly how she means it. It is easier for a non-native speaker (or writer, as is the case here) to miss some connotations that are glaringly obvious for other readers. Especially if the said speaker is specifically determined to put their words exactly how they want and not consider what it will look like to anyone else. This is also what her father mentions in Disqus.

I think Pessi has been commenting about Finnish Lutheranism here. The idea that everyone is a sinner and is not by their own virtue worth of god's love is a key point in the teaching, but this is not such a bad thing as it seems. Because the other and inseparable part of it is that everyone has been forgiven and are loved anyway. So that part of her comments could be consistent with finding (back?) to the mainstream Finnish Lutheranism. Her father hasn't specified their denomination at the time Minna was a child, but I think it probably was Lutheranism because that's the "baseline" hereabouts. A very large part of Finns are Lutheran, although many (most) are so culturally only.

There are several sects or revivalist movements (herätysliike) within the Lutheran church that have varying degree of differences in their interpretation of Christianity and customs. Some of them are very much stricter than the mainstream church and are e.g. strongly against modern media, prohibit contraception etc. while others are quite progressive. They all stress the living faith, having the faith as an everyday part of your life and not something you may think about at Christmas and Easter (as most Finnish so called Lutherans do). The main point, already made by Luther himself, is that everyone is saved only by god's mercy and through Jesus' sacrifice. The way I have been taught does however go on to say good deeds are not enough to get a person a pass to heaven, but good needs are the Christian way to live nevertheless (obviously the definition of good deeds varies widely). So, the way how the characters don't seem to care about anyone else but themselves is at odds with this kind of teaching.

Furthermore, in the stream last week she said she's not doing anything special for Easter. As far as I'm aware, Easter is the most important Christian celebration and it certainly is so for the Lutheran church, and even more for the Eastern Orthodox (the other main church here). So, had she been drawn into a very strict sect, one would expect something to happen at Easter, maybe just some prayer marathon over Zoom in the circumstances, but something. Not just a long weekend.

Fourthly (?? is it fourth?) her father (yes I'm willing to believe it is indeed her father) has been commenting on Disqus (ok so I have followed a bit, but only a little!) that he's in contact with Minna and there is no indication of her getting trapped by a cult. If she were, she probably wouldn't go out and directly say it to her family at first, but it's encouraging that they think she's all right.

So, because of the above reasons I remain hopeful that the faith she has found is a bit more moderate than the initial impression many of us, me included, got. I don't know if this it the case, but to me it seems still possible.

Independent of the exact nature of the church, congregation, sect, movement or cult she has found, springing the religious content upon us like that and hiding into the guise of the "oh sweet bunny comic" is still offensive. She did know it will cause a big reaction, and some (many) won't like it. She wanted to make it a surprise and that way force-feed it to us. It's within the realm of possibility she didn't realize beforehand just how damaging it would be to many people hurt by Christianism (that is luckily quite rare here although far from non-existent), but at least after she was told about the damage and she still refused to put in a content description is in my opinion cruel (in addition to being simply rude). While she has every right to say, write and draw whatever she wants, it was a betrayal of trust to fool us into it.

Many people in Disqus, and some here as well as in the stream are puzzled about why Christian content could require a content or trigger warning. I think this is partially because those people cannot understand how such content can be bad. This looks to me like inability or strong unwillingness to try see things from another's perspective. Some people seem to think it shows strength of character, I might call it lack of empathy.

Another thing in it seems to be that many people are in principle opposed to trigger warnings. Minna certainly is one of these people. In the stream we suggested again (not initiated by me but I supported) that a description should be added, but Minna was adamant. She said she'll never ever put any trigger warnings into her work. This is very unfortunate and certainly doesn't help rebuild the trust she broke. In the stream she also made a totally stupid strawman argument against trigger warnings.

So, while I felt merely puzzled and tricked, and wasn't personally actually hurt, I am angry at her stunt. I would not have been happy to read it if I had been warned (I would have read it nevertheless), but even I felt bad when it happened this way.

I also hope she will keep making SSSS until the proper end of A2. And based on what she said in the stream, it seems that's her plan, at least the current one. As for her next project, she has an idea "that will make many people happy" but she will still need to develop it for a long time. So I'm going to hang on, unless there are dramatic changes in the spirit of SSSS, and even after I stop reading that whether because it ends or because it goes sour, I will most certainly hang out here in the Forum Let's keep the community alive!

[thorny]

[spoiler]
By the way, Minna announced that she'll post the upcoming chapter's cover page on Mon 5th. That is a notable Christian holiday

Seems to depend on which Christians. Around here, at least, while a few groups (notably Amish) do indeed celebrate the Monday, for most Christians Monday seems to be back to business as usual.

(If she's not celebrating Easter at all, as Jitter thinks, that does seem odd to me; again, around here, even Christians who don't celebrate much of anything else do tend to celebrate Easter.)

I notice that this discussion is winding down, which I think is largely a good thing. I have been following the thread (Disqus comments I dropped several days ago) and most of my thoughts have been presented very well here!

Yes; I nearly posted some more a day or so ago but decided I'd be coming too close to repeating myself. But today's posts do seem to address some different, or at least new information on or only partially dealt with, topics.

The following contains some description of Finnish Lutheran Christian belief as I have understood it having been raised in a nominally Lutheran although very secular family, and attended Religious Studies for Lutherans in school. This does not correspond with my personal faith, but my faith is not the issue here anyways

Thanks for including that.

Minna was adamant. She said she'll never ever put any trigger warnings into her work. This is very unfortunate and certainly doesn't help rebuild the trust she broke. In the stream she also made a totally stupid strawman argument against trigger warnings.

I wonder what she'd think if someone put, say, graphic sexual content into a work with no warning?

People who get annoyed about "trigger warnings" often seem to assume that those will be given for kinds of content they're used to being able to avoid; they just don't think of them as "trigger warnings" in those cases.

even after I stop reading that whether because it ends or because it goes sour, I will most certainly hang out here in the Forum Let's keep the community alive!

Yes, I also hope this forum continues; even if it moves on entirely from Minna's works, leaving those discussions eventually available but archived. If that happens I expect it would need a name change.

[SkyWhalePod]

I'll be doing the same as you, thegreyarea -- disappointed that Minna has decided not to engage to any degree with the negative response to LP, but not disappointed enough to stop reading. It occurred to me this morning that right now she's reflecting on her past attitudes toward religion, and treatment of people who disagree with her, with some amount of regret; I'm also hopeful, like you are, that someday in the future she'll find/express a more positive relationship with her faith and acknowledge that this moment could have been handled better.

Jitter, thanks a ton for the cultural insight! I definitely feel like this whole LP situation has been part painful clash of perspectives, part misunderstanding due to a communications breakdown. If the conversation was two-way, maybe we would understand a little better what Minna means by the religious language she's used. Unfortunately, this is very much a one-way conversation and it seems like it will stay that way.

Honestly, most of the threads I've engaged with here have very little to do with SSSS, and they're doing very well, so I don't think we'll have a problem keeping the community alive

[Jitter]

Seems to depend on which Christians. Around here, at least, while a few groups (notably Amish) do indeed celebrate the Monday, for most Christians Monday seems to be back to business as usual.

(If she's not celebrating Easter at all, as Jitter thinks, that does seem odd to me; again, around here, even Christians who don't celebrate much of anything else do tend to celebrate Easter.)

Yeah, I mentioned it because it struck me as odd that she wouldn’t do anything special. Here both the Friday and Monday are public holidays, the main celebration day is Sunday. There are certain foods etc associated with Easter, and very many if not most Finnish families do “observe” it somehow, although again largely as a secular holiday.

I wonder what she'd think if someone put, say, graphic sexual content into a work with no warning?

People who get annoyed about "trigger warnings" often seem to assume that those will be given for kinds of content they're used to being able to avoid; they just don't think of them as "trigger warnings" in those cases.

Someone (not Minna) actually said in the stream that people just need to take responsibility for what they read. This was an argument against trigger warnings. I tried to ask how exactly that can be done when you are deliberately kept in the dark, but it didn’t become anything further.

I also came up with an analogy for this. Maybe it’s a bit late but I’ll put it here anyways. Assume you have a friend or an acquaintance that makes juices of the fruits if their own garden. From time to time you visit this person, and they offer the juice to you, and you know it’s good and refreshing. Then one day, after you have had a glass or two, you realize there is alcohol in the juice. Your friend says “Oh yes, I put in some vodka. I think it’s good for you, you are too stressed, I put it in because it helps you relax”. You did not plan to drink (maybe you never do) and feel unhappy about this, but they just say it’s not illegal to give drinks to people. It’s not illegal (you are an adult in this story) and they actually had your best interest in mind, so they did the right thing? It was good they didn’t tell you, as you may have said no to the drink despite it being good for you? Everything is good, right? You are just upset over nothing.

[thegreyarea]

...
TL;DR: I didn't like LP; I remain hopeful Minna is not in a cult; I'm mad at her for omitting any sort of warning
...
I also hope she will keep making SSSS until the proper end of A2. And based on what she said in the stream, it seems that's her plan, at least the current one. As for her next project, she has an idea "that will make many people happy" but she will still need to develop it for a long time. So I'm going to hang on, unless there are dramatic changes in the spirit of SSSS, and even after I stop reading that whether because it ends or because it goes sour, I will most certainly hang out here in the Forum Let's keep the community alive!

Jitter, your TL;DR sums quite well my opinions*. And thanks for all the info.

I'm very curious about this "idea" of hers, and particularly about which people fits in that "happy" group. Us, her usual fans? Or some new "friends"? I guess we will have to wait...

As you can imagine I'm very happy that you will stay!

And for you, Thorny! You may also be right about the name part, but I believe we're still some time away from that decision.

And for you too, SkyWhalePod!

Oh, and about your analogy, Jitter, we could add "what if you have a medical condition that makes alcohol very bad to your health?" or "what if you are an former alcoholic that is slowly recovering?" That last one comes closer to those who had bad experiences related with the Christian Faith. And all the options are very bad.

* Even if I like the comic graphic art, that is very well done. And yes, I tend to compartimentalize a lot.

[Songbird]

I am here because of SSSS yet I'm not here for SSSS.

This community seems to be one of those hidden oasis you sometimes stumble upon in the vast wilderness of the internet full of thoughtful, caring people. That's rare. And as far as I can tell a big center of gravity of the forums is lies in storytelling, art, and languages, with a dash of roleplaying; all things I cherish and don't get enough of.

Is that odd to say I'm looking forward to see the post-SSSS era? There's always the danger of this fizzling out, but there's the chance of it becoming something else. I'm curious about what it'll be—and I must admit that after this incident hanging around makes me uncomfortable.

[SkyWhalePod]

I also came up with an analogy for this. Maybe it’s a bit late but I’ll put it here anyways. Assume you have a friend or an acquaintance that makes juices of the fruits if their own garden. From time to time you visit this person, and they offer the juice to you, and you know it’s good and refreshing. Then one day, after you have had a glass or two, you realize there is alcohol in the juice. Your friend says “Oh yes, I put in some vodka. I think it’s good for you, you are too stressed, I put it in because it helps you relax”. You did not plan to drink (maybe you never do) and feel unhappy about this, but they just say it’s not illegal to give drinks to people. It’s not illegal (you are an adult in this story) and they actually had your best interest in mind, so they did the right thing? It was good they didn’t tell you, as you may have said no to the drink despite it being good for you? Everything is good, right? You are just upset over nothing.

While I like the analogy, I can see somebody on the pro-LP side of this conversation not being convinced by it. I've been playing a little game with myself lately: what sort of hurt can somebody do to another person that the first person feels warrants an apology, and what sort of hurt might that first person consider undeserving of apology?

It seems like everyone can agree that we should respect people's physical health and their choices regarding that. If we physically hurt someone, or feed them something they can't/are opposed to consuming, we apologize. I think that's universally considered good behavior. This may be in part because we don't have total control over our bodies -- we don't heal fast, we can't dispel unwanted food or drink from our bodies short of sticking our fingers down our throats, which in itself is an unpleasant experience. If we had Wolverine-levels of superhealing abilities (you know, before he got poisoned by all that adamantium in his bones) or could become transparent to the stuff we don't want to consume so that it easily falls out of us, would committing a physical faux pas be deserving of an apology then? I think maybe it would, but it might be more akin to forgetting to hand somebody a plate during a meal, or accidentally standing in someone's way at the grocery store. More like, "Oh, sorry, I inconvenienced you but we can sort everything out easily and now it's fine." But with physical health.

Emotions and mental states are a lot murkier, and that's the stuff that entertainment/literature/et cetera affect. How much control does each of us have over the things we feel and our mental health? I don't think everybody agrees on that, and that's the problem. Some of us are deeply affected by the comments that other people make (for example, when somebody says "calm down" jokingly, it really sets me off because my most recent romantic partner was the kind of person who would say that when they didn't think the other person's seriousness was worth paying attention to). Others of us are less deeply affected by those same comments. How can you tell when someone else's strong feelings are warranted, if you've never felt them yourself? How can you tell whether somebody is managing their hurt as much as they can, or playing the victim? The Internet makes it really hard to tell sometimes. So I think in response to your analogy, somebody might say, "Feelings aren't the same as physical health. You can control your own mind, so do it."

Interestingly, I think almost everybody can agree that if somebody dies, you don't say bad things about them to their living loved ones, and you don't make jokes about death while they're grieving. Grief after/during loss is a feeling everybody knows that they should respect. Maybe because it's a feeling everybody can understand, and knows that it can't be willed away. Taking other kinds of emotional pain seriously can be more difficult if you don't understand them -- all you can do is trust that the other person is being honest about it. Here, on this forum, I think we trust people when they talk about pain we haven't personally experienced or witnessed -- we trust that their feelings aren't will-away-able, the pain is real, and as deserving of an apology as physical pain. Elsewhere, people don't trust that those feelings aren't will-away-able, and might be afraid that taking the trust leap would mean being taken advantage of by somebody playing the victim.

That's how I see it, anyway. The idea that the "get over it" people think that intense feelings can/should be controlled/suppressed isn't a new one. I'm not sure that the orange-juice-to-screwdriver analogy would really work on somebody who isn't already open to it? Maybe that wasn't the point of your analogy in the first place, Jitter, I'm not sure who your intended audience was with that. Either way I think it brings up an interesting point about what we expect from people re: regulation of their own emotions.

[JoB]

But do you really have public, for-everybody, restrictions in Germany?

Yes. The details vary from state to state, but the basic concept of "stille Feiertage" where everybody has to respect the Christian wish for, well, solemnity spans the entire nation. The pinnacle is the (in)famous "Tanzverbot" on Good Friday (i.e., tomorrow).

Spoiler: details, details ... • show

Literally "interdiction to dance", actually a ban on public events ranging from "dancing/music and sports" to "OK, we'll allow gastronomy, for one, but no music playing there!" Yes, our government and public administration aren't fully secular/laical, especially compared to neighboring France.

psst... why do we keep talking under spoilers?

Dunno, you started putting spoilers on the side topic ...

Another thing in it seems to be that many people are in principle opposed to trigger warnings. Minna certainly is one of these people. In the stream we suggested again (not initiated by me but I supported) that a description should be added, but Minna was adamant. She said she'll never ever put any trigger warnings into her work.

I guess we can all predict how that'll go in the long run: She'll find that she did nonetheless, because people will start to take her name on it as a trigger warning.

Is that odd to say I'm looking forward to see the post-SSSS era? There's always the danger of this fizzling out, but there's the chance of it becoming something else. I'm curious about what it'll be

Welcome to The Pundemonium.