Author Topic: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'  (Read 131116 times)

Vulpes

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #150 on: March 23, 2021, 03:35:12 PM »
Maglor, I think a lot of people are feeling blind-sided - they were expecting a light comic involving cute bunnies, about who-knows-what, the link appears with no description, they click it, and... well, I know as I read along I got increasingly uncomfortable, and reading her notes I became outright alarmed. I'm concerned for Minna - she seems to be in the grips of terrible self-loathing which can't be healthy - and I can understand how some people who had really bad experiences at the hands of similar religions would be quite upset. Yes, freedom of speech allows her to say these things, but it also allows everyone who is offended to say so, and why. It's the last part that I feel is getting short shrift in the p409 comments section (I gave up on it quite some time ago) but is being eloquently expressed by many here. I don't see anyone saying she should remove the comic, merely expressing their distaste and distress. And doing so helps some people process it.
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Maglor

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #151 on: March 23, 2021, 03:37:56 PM »
People are free to tell, they're offended, if they're offended.
But get offended by this? It's kinda... it's a low style maybe?
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PyroDesu

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #152 on: March 23, 2021, 03:39:49 PM »
Heh. Ok. That's kinda rude. I guess she either in this neophite rush, or just trolls us. And as far as I can tell, that's not how Christianity works.
But I still can't understand all the hype. Minna is not a crusader, she can't (and won't) ram into your place, yelling "DEUS VULT". Her oppinion is absolutely harmless for you, even if you disagree with this.
One can't simply mix her art and her believes. Plus:
There's that wery interesting indangered specie, a magical unicorn she used to make this comic. It's called freedom of speech. Don't you have anything else to do but being offended?

1: We're worried about her. She has a fanbase that cares about her well-being, and we're concerned. That's the major part of the "hype".

2: Her opinion, as expressed so far, is a horrifically toxic one that is dredging up significant trauma to a number of people. That's not "absolutely harmless".

3: She's the one explicitly mixing her art and her beliefs by making her art about her beliefs (even if she closes out SSSS as intended when she wrote this part, the fact is it's heavily implied it's over when this part is finished and any new work is going to be religious-themed).

4: Funny thing, we have freedom of speech too. Also, freedom of speech is not freedom from social consequences of your beliefs.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 03:46:40 PM by PyroDesu »
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Maglor

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #153 on: March 23, 2021, 03:52:36 PM »
Her opinion, as expressed so far, is a horrifically toxic one that is dredging up significant trauma to a number of people. That's not "absolutely harmless".

Didn't know, someone can be traumatized because someone else called him a sinner. It's not a sarcasm, I'm actually surprised by this vulnerability.
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thorny

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #154 on: March 23, 2021, 03:53:04 PM »
There's that wery interesting indangered specie, a magical unicorn she used to make this comic. It's called freedom of speech. Don't you have anything else to do but being offended?

There's that very interesting thing called freedom of speech. And the interesting thing about it is, people who are made angry and/or hurt by what someone said are allowed to use it too.

But get offended by this? It's kinda... it's a low style maybe?

By being told that there's only One Right Way to exist, and we're not doing it?

Plus which, a lot of us can't do it. So people are being told they're Wrong in their essence. To say nobody should get "offended" by that is to say that nobody should ever get offended about anything.

ETA: And "offended" hardly seems the right word for it, anyway. Some people have expressed worry about Minna. Some people have expressed serious pain. Some have expressed both in the same post. "Offended" is when you think your neighbor deliberately pretended not to see you in the supermarket.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 03:59:02 PM by thorny »

Kitty

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #155 on: March 23, 2021, 03:58:40 PM »
People are free to tell, they're offended, if they're offended.
But get offended by this? It's kinda... it's a low style maybe?

it's not only about it being offensive (which it is), it's also about triggering actual trauma many people suffered through by repeating what was in many cases said by the abuser.

it's sometimes hard for people who haven't been in such a situation to empathize, which is understandable, but maybe try and understand how some people might be traumatized by bad stuff that seems small and irrelevant to you.

it's not her religion being attacked here, we worry for her well-being (especially those that have been in such a situation and know how it goes) and we don't like the way she declared everyone and herself a sinner and a bad person. this isn't a healthy way of thinking, and it's mean to everybody that was going about their day for one moment and suddenly got whacked with an YOU ARE ALL EVIL AND ONLY SOME DESERVE SALVATION message.


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Kitty

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #156 on: March 23, 2021, 04:02:20 PM »
Didn't know, someone can be traumatized because someone else called him a sinner. It's not a sarcasm, I'm actually surprised by this vulnerability.

it's not just being called a sinner

it was in no way this extreme for me and it wasn't coming from my family, but for some people it was, so try and think at it this way: being told you're worthless and evil and bad, all day, every day, constantly, whether or not you believe. the only way for salvation is god, and you don't deserve it because you're so bad and horrible.
and it's even worse if you don't believe, because then you're also willingly bad and horrible, and people look at you condescendingly because you literally refuse the one correct thing there is in life.

it eats away your self esteem, self worth and positive image of yourself. literal poison for your mind.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 04:12:08 PM by Kitty »


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PyroDesu

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #157 on: March 23, 2021, 04:03:10 PM »
Didn't know, someone can be traumatized because someone else called him a sinner. It's not a sarcasm, I'm actually surprised by this vulnerability.

Growing up in an abusive environment is a major trauma. And unfortunately many, many abusive situations use religion as part of the abuse - justifying it, trapping the victim in it, perpetuating it...
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Crumpite

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #158 on: March 23, 2021, 04:05:47 PM »
Maglor,
Think about it: why are you offended about us being offended ?
By your logic you're as bad as us 😀

Part of this may be a cultural thing, here in the US toxic Christianity is rampant and folks are more sensitized to it and its signs. 

Maglor

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #159 on: March 23, 2021, 04:09:25 PM »
I'm not offended. More like surprized.
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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #160 on: March 23, 2021, 04:10:32 PM »
ok so extremely unpopular opinion but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i liked the comic
i think a very big part of the negative reactions from this come frome experiences with the good old crazy american evangelicals that were so popular back in the 70s through 90s, and it led people who had bad experiences with those cults to associate specific parts of just normal christian teachings with those cults, but honestly from the perspective of a non-american from a place where those sorts of sects are more uncommon (and usually rather hostile to catholics so they rarely get much spotlight) i dont really see anything of what minna wrote in the comic as a red herring for one of those cults, the comic itself imo reads more like babylon bee than like a chick tract (which i heard some people copare this to, so i was a little bit disappointed when the comic didnt have an evil pope bunny for me to laugh at), and the beliefs and ideas expressed in the afterword didnt (at least to me) seem in any way harmful or toxic or something that could be in any way associated in any way with the crazy evangelicals people think minna turned to. to me, it seemed more that something a catholic or a lutheran would say rather than someone from, say, the westboro baptist church, and honestly i think the core message there that might have alarmed people could have been the implied proselitism part where she talked about spreading Christ's words but proselitism is also a very big part of the doctrine of 99,9999999999% of christian branches so its not really fair to associate that with radical cults, and honestly her finding a spirituality, even if you disagree with it or even if you dont respect that at all shouldnt worry you about ssss's future, since from what she said she began feeling a pull towards christianity in august last year and fully converted around november last year, so she has put out quite a lot of pages after her conversion and the story hasnt yet taken a considerable turn (which is again another way of telling she probably isnt from an american-style radical sect since the big focus she puts on pagan scandinavian folklore would probably be seen as evil to those people, considering they thought tolkien (also known as the most catholic guy on england since thomas moore) was satanic for taking inspiration from norse mythology for his books), so really, even if you cant like the author anymore i wouldn't worry about ssss being changed by this

as an aside and since i already committed to not using caps this is going to be very hard to read i'm sorry, i do think there's a decent message to take from the comic even if you're not christian or religious at all, since the central theme here is about freedom of expression and the people or groups of people that think they have the moral authority to curtail it for the masses' own good, more of a "dont play god" message than anything, and frankly could work (tho in my biased opinion not quite as well) if the bible in that comic was switched for the rigveda, the quran, thus spoke zarathustra, etc

so uh yea rant over

tl;dr: i liked the comic but if u didnt its ok dont worry about it

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #161 on: March 23, 2021, 04:11:03 PM »

the comic, the afterword, and the comments that followed it all show with no doubt that offense was fully meant to anyone who doesnt agree with the author, can you blame anyone for taking that offense?

I have no problem with anyone taking that offense, but why couldn't we stay civil?

mate888

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #162 on: March 23, 2021, 04:16:02 PM »
why couldn't we stay civil?
tbf we are in the internet, i'm suprised it wasn't less civil

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #163 on: March 23, 2021, 04:20:39 PM »
ok so extremely unpopular opinion but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i liked the comic
i think a very big part of the negative reactions from this come frome experiences with the good old crazy american evangelicals that were so popular back in the 70s through 90s

Who are popular now. And exist worldwide. Maybe look up what's happening in Eastern Europe rn?
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Dilandu

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #164 on: March 23, 2021, 04:23:33 PM »
Maglor, I think a lot of people are feeling blind-sided - they were expecting a light comic involving cute bunnies, about who-knows-what, the link appears with no description, they click it, and... well, I know as I read along I got increasingly uncomfortable, and reading her notes I became outright alarmed. I'm concerned for Minna - she seems to be in the grips of terrible self-loathing which can't be healthy - and I can understand how some people who had really bad experiences at the hands of similar religions would be quite upset. Yes, freedom of speech allows her to say these things, but it also allows everyone who is offended to say so, and why. It's the last part that I feel is getting short shrift in the p409 comments section (I gave up on it quite some time ago) but is being eloquently expressed by many here. I don't see anyone saying she should remove the comic, merely expressing their distaste and distress. And doing so helps some people process it.

Well, for me it was quite good all until the afterword. I realized, of course, the Christian messages into the comics, but I have no problems with it, and in the comics itself they were reasonably in place in "material vs spiritual" message. And... then I hit afterword, and everything kinda turned upside down. The afterword essentially turned the whole comics into blatant Christian propaganda of the most annoying kind.

The irony is, that without afterword, comics itself would probably leave only positive feelings, and quite possible even positive feelings toward Christianity. But afterword only managed to get everyone either (rightfully) insulted, or annoyed, worried for Minna's situation - and most clearly NOT positive toward Christianity in any way.

Essentially it was a perfect example how good intentions provide Hell with rather neat road system.