Author Topic: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'  (Read 130455 times)

Kis

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #90 on: March 22, 2021, 12:29:02 PM »
In case you don't read the comments, but still want to have some information regarding the comic, here is a comment posted by Minna's father:
"I just want to give you some perspective into "all this".
Minna was born into a Finnish Christian family where she was raised to honor that ”All human beings are born equal and they must be guaranteed the same rights and freedoms without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status”
As her father I can firmly state that already as a young girl she cemented these values into her heart and her way of living. I’m convinced that she has not dropped any of these values just because she again identify her self as a Christian. If she has, I will be deeply disappointed.
I was talking to her earlier this morning, she told me that she is reading your comments and she will not close down the discussion. She respects you all and your right to free speach. However, if she finds the strengtht the Bunny Comic will have it's own place by tomorrow.
On a personal note. No matter who you are, Be nice to each and other!
BR Jouni Sundberg"
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Marvin

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #91 on: March 22, 2021, 12:35:40 PM »
...
If she has, I will be deeply disappointed.
...

Oh, wow.. Strong stuff...

thorny

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #92 on: March 22, 2021, 12:44:43 PM »
Some of more recent discussions have become quite heated, but overall I think you won't regret checking on it, there are lots of interesting stances and arguments and most people are trying to keep it civil.

Wow. There really is a vehement discussion going on over there; and, at least so far, it seems to be staying up. Hope that continues; but, despite claims in one of the more recent posts, I'm not counting on it.

Going to take me a while to read it. I gather Minna herself has not responded?



You live by the unspoken rule of appearing to always be well and strong and successful all while being terrorized by the constant idea of somehow fumbling it and jeopardizing your livelihood. It could be a change of style, something you say, your very identity. It could be you need a break but you know you can't because a cornerstone of your success is being consistent.

I do wonder about possible sleep deprivation. Minna produces pages that look, at least to me, like each page must take an astonishing amount of work -- and for a while she was doing so five days a week, seemed to feel bad about dropping that to four, and continued producing at least two and some of the time three while simultaneously doing another major project on which she was doing multiple pages weekly. Most comics sites, including ones with less detail, don't seem to update that often.

Kis

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #93 on: March 22, 2021, 01:34:35 PM »
I gather Minna herself has not responded?

She did not, as of yet. In my opinion, it is safe to say that she will give some kind of response when she posts the next page.

...even though I was (maybe still am) dumbfounded by her words and find it hard to support her new belief if phrased in such a way, I really hope she is okay mentally and physically, this whole cult talk got me extremely worried.
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Danieleon

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #94 on: March 22, 2021, 01:57:40 PM »
So, I'm new here and this may not be the greatest thread to begin after years just lurking at the comment section of the webcomic but I felt like doing so anyway after I got pointed in this direction. After all, my experience reading Lovely People seems to be very different from what I could read in the comments and in this thread, since I actually felt good noticing the common ground between Minna's experience returning to Christianity and my own renaissance to the Catholic Church.

After reading many of your thougths I get why Minna's final words in her epilogue may come as preachy to say the least and offensive at worst to some of the people who has had the misfortune of getting the short straw from previous interactions with Christians.

But I'd like to add my cinco pesos to the argument and say that I don't think her words come from ill feelings towards non-christians but out of the wish that others can experiment the good that she found in her faith. After all Christianity is not a "folk" centered religion but a "catholic" one (as in universal, not the denomination) and evangelization is an important tenent of the New Testament, with Jesus often calling His followers to go out and tell people about his message.

As for the quality of SSSS concerns, I don't think it will be deeply affected by her religious views just like Tolkien's work didn't got deeply changed just because he became Catholic.
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Shakkiz the Red

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #95 on: March 22, 2021, 04:30:21 PM »
I want to commend Minna on the fantastic quality of the work she puts out at a pace that puts the majority of cartoonists to shame, especially among webcomics. Anyone who has grown up reading webcomics can attest to the rarity of a creator who not only has the talents in writing, drawing and paneling to create a comic, but also the determination to maintain their output for many years. I did not follow the creation of Lovely People closely at all, and I read it a couple hours ago on a whim. Blitzing through over 6 pages a day for nearly 3 months is not only an artistic accomplishment, it's a feat of endurance as well. Thank you Minna for your lovely work, I hope you are able to exercise your passion for as long is you want, the webcomic community is blessed to have you.

For those getting their feathers ruffled over the message of Lovely People, I appreciate where some of you are coming from, but I also don't think Minna's beliefs will bleed over into SSSS.
Your own worldview, both religious and secular, is no necessary limit on your creative endeavors, J. R. R. Tolkien is a good example. I, a Christian, am excited to see other potential expressions of the supernatural as the story continues, a story setting with multiple pantheons of gods coexisting is fascinating.

wavewright62

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #96 on: March 22, 2021, 04:46:40 PM »
*mod hat on*
The Forum has guidelines about shutting down hate speech and guiding contentious topics away.  But, I feel that open discussion is valuable, and I am in no hurry to shut it down.  I am active in a few of the fandom spaces, and have seen the furore raging these past few days (has it really only been since Saturday? seems longer).


I think it's healthy, SO LONG AS we don't degenerate into personal attacks.


Most of the discussion here, while passionate, has been insightful and civil, and even among those of you for whom English is not your first language.  Wow!  Another reason to enjoy the community we have here. 

Some of your posts could be seen as personal attacks upon Minna and upon each other.  Also, wow, because you know better.  Keep it civil, keep it kind, please and thank you.

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Superdark33

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #97 on: March 22, 2021, 06:05:07 PM »


After all Christianity is not a "folk" centered religion but a "catholic" one (as in universal, not the denomination) and evangelization is an important tenent of the New Testament, with Jesus often calling His followers to go out and tell people about his message.

If you cant see why enforcing one's beliefs on others (even without the genocidal cruelity of how its been done in the past, in christianity's case) is not only harmful but extremely insulting, and that excusing it as "just part of her beliefs" is not a good arguement at all, i dont know what to tell you.

Orginized religions can be good.... to the people it chooses to benefits.
There are still countless of victims being silenced or pushed in the grinder in the name of Belief, you dont even have to be an outgroup to end up being chewed and spat out by whatever system is in there.

Whats good in Rome might not be good in Dublin, for one.
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Ragnarok

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #98 on: March 22, 2021, 06:15:27 PM »
Welp, Minna closed off the comment section of today's update, complete with preachy holier-than-thou stuff.
Wonderful to see my expectations are being lived down to.
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Tarnagh

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #99 on: March 22, 2021, 06:17:06 PM »
Comments are now closed on yesterday's page, and I can't say I'm surprised. Minna's also added several more notes. Looks like SSSS will finish as she originally planned but "future" works are likely to ... have a very different flavor from aRTD and SSSS. I guess I can't say I'm surprised about that, either.

(Edit: Ninja'd by Ragnarok. Which is an amusing sentence to type. :) )
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Vulpes

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #100 on: March 22, 2021, 06:21:45 PM »
Thanks Kis for finding the senior Sundberg's comment - I read a bunch, got overwhelmed, and decided I had seen enough. It's reassuring to hear that he doesn't think she's abandoned the accepting attitudes she was brought up with. Like others, I am alarmed by her apparent self-loathing, and it sounds like her father is the sort of supporting family she might need. Loving and supportive, but willing to call out bs.
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PyroDesu

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #101 on: March 22, 2021, 06:33:04 PM »
Not only closed yesterday's comments, but pre-emptively locked today's. (Yay, timezone shenanigans making me think she nuked them... and also me not paying attention to the page change.)

Those notes are even more worrying.

I dearly hope Sundberg Sr. (if that was, in fact, her father) takes my request in mind and talks with Minna not (just) about the comments or the comic, but about her. I fear the possibility that she's fallen into a dangerous practice and he would be the best positioned to pull her out if she has.

If it doesn't force a wedge between them first.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 06:42:14 PM by PyroDesu »
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zxs

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #102 on: March 22, 2021, 06:40:43 PM »
First post on this forum! (I like to lurk)

I'm going to ignore all that text below the comic for now.

Interesting take on a social credit system, with very cute bunnies! I think the story can be generalized to any sort of group that might be persecuted under such a system, whether that be because of your religion, race, gender identity, or anything else. Let's look at the reasons why each of our main bunnies decide to venture into the unknown.

Peppermint's score was reduced because of her child Lavender. Lavender tries to give food to a bunny with such a low score, they're not recognized at all. Peppermint chides Lavender for attempting to interact at all with someone with such a low score. Later, when Lavender gets her own score, she tanks it, partially to prove a point to her mother (that simply having a low score shouldn't be a reason to exile someone). Peppermint rightfully chooses her family over her score.

Marigold's story is obviously where the bulk of the attention has been so far, but like I said her story could be analogous to a lot more than just religion. The social credit system tends to erase any sort of lifestyle that doesn't exactly match up with the prevailing culture. Sound familiar?

Lastly, Peony, after abandoning her real friends, discovers that her Tooter friends are fake and quick to denounce/abandon her. In our world today, this is how social media works. Things you do are taken out of context and you're represented wholly by 280 characters you write. Social media has a lot of power in our world, both good and bad, and I think it's good to have stories that include the bad side.

As you can see, there's a lot to take away from Lovely People aside from the fairly heavy-handed proselytization. Now, do I think that Minna wrote Marigold's story to represent any abstract nonconformist lifestyle? Reading the text at the end, probably not; it gives off strong "Christian persecution complex" vibes. But that doesn't mean that we can't look at the story and reflect on all of the other good parts of it.

thorny

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #103 on: March 22, 2021, 07:47:50 PM »
Those notes are even more worrying.

Yeah.

I had some faint hope that maybe she'd read them, think about them, and post some sort of apology and/or at least an attempt at innocuous explanation to those who were insulted and hurt by the endtext.

But no, all we get is what amounts to 'of course I'm right and you'd all agree with me if you were thinking correctly'. People called out to her, all over that Discus thread, in genuine and serious pain, and she can't or won't hear them.

Maybe her family can get through to her, with what reads to me like their non-toxic version of Christianity; but we sure can't. I wish them luck. They may well not have any.

Sc0ut

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Re: Lovely People aka 'the bunny comic'
« Reply #104 on: March 22, 2021, 07:48:54 PM »
Personally, I think that the story, excluding the proselytizing, is trite. Did we really not know that consumerism, living in a world with an official social credit system, or overly relying on social media for your personal self-esteem was bad before Minna rather heavy-handedly said it in the comic? I think all of us who are over 15 did, and I for one don't feel I have anything to feel grateful or enlightened about when it comes to that.

(And if I were to get into more detail here: no mention of the vast positive uses of social media, which has helped people maintain some sense of connection to others especially now that we're all distancing, which has even before helped neurodivergents and people with certain disabilities make and keep friends easier than we can irl, and has ironically even helped with resisting oppressive governments... no, it's all painted with a single brush, all bad, all shallow, all connected to consumerism and everything that is bad in the world.

No explanation for why consumerism is bad for that matter, until we get to the end of the comic - in the real world, this is because it poses a big threat to the environment and forces people to work in poor conditions to mass produce items, but Minna has no concerns about that ofc.

And if someone really wants to make an interesting commentary on the social credit system, they could, for instance, explore the differences between the government taking away your UBI because of "bad behaviour" and the government never giving anyone an UBI in the first place and allowing people to die avoidable deaths just because they weren't born in lucky enough circumstances to make it in life... and see the two may not be as different, in some cases... but again, this comic is not concerned with real world issues at all. This is the real reason it's a bad comic imo, not the religious themes, but the failure to provide accurate and relevant commentary on reality, instead staying at a level where the story only nods towards hot topic issues like "consumerism am I right", and cruises on the readers' existing preconceived notions without saying anything really original or thought out about them, and painting some of the most misguided stereotypes as truth, such as the one about social media being only or mainly about faking)

The proselytizing is downright offensive though, especially for those of us who have or still are suffering because of people who insist on following their own brand of religion too closely. *They* are the ones currently trying to make laws to limit others' rights in Europe, where Minna lives, and not the other way around. To write a story where hardcore Christians are the oppressed ones is in my opinion cruel and grotesque, given the current real world context.

I find the insistence of some that we must find something positive in the comic offensive as well. Nah, personally I hated it and I think there's nothing wrong with saying this. This doesn't mean I will attack Minna or her remaining/new fans. I'm sharing my 2c, especially for those who might feel their pain is not seen, then move on with my life. The fact that Minna consistently extends zero compassion to those who might be harmed by what she does (even when she anticipates them being hurt), has cemented the decision that I'm not interested in what she has to say art-wise anymore. Someone who despises most people as well as herself (as I understand from the afterword), and instead of taking steps towards understanding other people and bettering herself, just climbs on an easy, accessible high horse, is not someone I want contributing to my world view. I'd fallen out with ssss anyway, partway because of unaddressed issues with it and partway due to the glacial pacing. I got into ssss at a point when pretty art, an interesting premise and some queerbaiting were enough to hold my interest, but they are not anymore and the comic is not delivering anything I'm interested in except maybe in the most minute quantities (seeing beasts being hunted, tortured and die gruesome deaths over dozens of pages just isn't my thing and has been actively putting me off even when I was more interested in the comic, and it's been a long time since we've had anything else).

Phew, sorry for the detour to ssss. My life is richer for the people I met here and all the discussions (including controversial ones!) that I've got to be part of or only read, and which helped cement how I feel about some things and who I am, and for that part I am grateful. I wish you all the best and I may still pop around to see what people are up to (maybe even enjoying your fan creations, which have always been a huge part of the fandom for me, in the latter part taking precedence over the comic itself), but as far as my interest for Minna's art is concerned, Lovely People was just the final definitive nail in its coffin.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 08:33:11 PM by Sc0ut »