Author Topic: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?  (Read 7945 times)

Jitter

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2020, 05:47:23 PM »
Considering what the gods can and cannot do, let’s near in mind that the Norse gods or the Finnish ones aren’t supposed to be almighty. The Norse gods battle with the giants all the time (except when they are fighting amongst themselves) and aren’t by any means always victorious. So the fact that they haven’t saved the entire humanity does not necessarily mean they aren’t around at all.

And thorny’s insight is very important! It could well be that the way Iceland was saved by the gods could be divine intervention to make them close borders at the time. Remember they didn’t leave any time for their citizens abroad to return so they must have been extremely determined. There is a thriving and officially recognized religious community of the worshippers of the Norse gods in Iceland in the present day real world, so it could be plausible to think there was a communication channel open.
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thorny

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2020, 07:02:54 PM »
my guess personally would be that the country hosting patient zero was sharing detailed information on their condition with other nations, since the illness was so bizarre (and the patients were probably all comatose when they were located). as for whether the rash was possibly manmade, i don't think we have much to go on there.

Yes, I don't think that's evidence that the rash was human made in Iceland and/or Denmark (though of course it's not evidence that it wasn't, either; or even evidence that it wasn't made somewhere that didn't close borders at all, humans being as dimwitted as we sometimes are); but what I'm saying is that it's evidence that the countries that closed borders in time for that to help had knowledge, from some source, that told them -- within five days! -- that this was worse than Ebola and spreading faster than novel coronavirus. Because that's not how the world's reacted to either of those -- what borders did get closed IRL were around places already infected, while places not yet having serious problems continued to trade with one another; and what closings there have been took much longer to happen, and they've been permeable not only by accident but by design.

The evidence might have been from the gods. Or it might have been some other sort of direct push by gods or by magic that wasn't by means of giving that information, as I think Jitter is suggesting. Or it might have been information derived from studying plague victims actually discovered and sequestered well before any of the public announcements, traded in secret among a few people some of whom were at high levels of government. Or it might have been because people did make the rash, either as part of some plan or by accident; and were trying either by long-term plan or just because that was who they could reach to limit damage in certain areas. I don't think we've got enough information to say that any of those are either right or wrong. But somebody knew something.

thegreyarea

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2020, 11:46:26 AM »
This opens two interesting paths to write a fanfic (or many) :)
1st (and my preferred), if Iceland closed it's borders thanks to privileged info from the gods, than we may assume that the Norse gods maintain good relations with the Japanese ones, because Japan was the second country to close it's borders (and, BTW, that's a lot harder for Japan to do it, because it has much more population and connections with the rest of the World, not to mention economic interests).
2nd,if the information regarding the danger of the Rash was well established at a restrict governmental level, we may think that it could have been a previous rash outbreak, maybe years before the Y0, that somehow was contained and studied, leaving a few people with the knowledge that, one day, it could (would?) happen again. We could call it a "Black Mesa" situation... (https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Mesa_Incident), or maybe one of those atomic tests in the 60's was not a test... 
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thorny

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2020, 12:17:50 PM »
Japan was the second country to close it's borders (and, BTW, that's a lot harder for Japan to do it, because it has much more population and connections with the rest of the World, not to mention economic interests).

Plus which, Japan imports more than half of its food supply!

And that isn't just because they're not in the habit of growing it. It's because of a serious imbalance between population and arable land.

I'd entirely forgotten that Japan was the second country to close. The people who made that decision absolutely must have known something. A huge percentage of the people must have starved to death there; and even if they expected a temporary closure, I expect there would have been hunger quite soon.

2nd,if the information regarding the danger of the Rash was well established at a restrict governmental level, we may think that it could have been a previous rash outbreak, maybe years before the Y0, that somehow was contained and studied, leaving a few people with the knowledge that, one day, it could (would?) happen again. We could call it a "Black Mesa" situation... (https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Mesa_Incident), or maybe one of those atomic tests in the 60's was not a test...

"Nuke it from space" or at least "nuke it via detonator"?

I think that would almost have to have made it a deliberate experiment that went wrong; because a natural outbreak, again, almost certainly would have spread before people found out enough about it to realize that they needed to nuke it.

-- Both of those would make interesting fanfics, I agree.

Jitter

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2020, 12:48:54 PM »
Incidentally (or not) the Japanese of modern days also still respect their kami and keep good relations with them. The Norse and Japanese gods may have cooperated (or the Finnish and Japanese - maybe the kami also like moomins?) or it's just a question of someone being around to hear the warning from the old gods in two separate occasions.

Grey, brilliant ideas! Maybe a UFO crashed and the lifeforms within were totally weird and grotesque, the US tried to study them first but understood it was too dangerous and nuked the site?
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Róisín

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2020, 07:44:14 PM »
Which raises the fascinating question of the similarities in our world  between Finnish and Japanese traditional magics. I know there was some mention of it back when the kallohonka ritual and bear hunting magic in both places was first discussed in the comments and the Forum. And there are modern genetic studies showing similarities between the Ainu and some of the ancient races of what is now Siberia, suggesting to me that maybe the Ainu walked to Japan from Northern Europe when there was a landbridge way back in the Old Stone Age? Fascinating concept, and might explain why in-comic their gods might communicate or be related.
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thegreyarea

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2020, 10:00:28 PM »
I think that would almost have to have made it a deliberate experiment that went wrong; because a natural outbreak, again, almost certainly would have spread before people found out enough about it to realize that they needed to nuke it.

-- Both of those would make interesting fanfics, I agree.
Well, it also could be an accidental (magical) outbreak caused by natural events. You can put here the old trope of stars and/or planets aligned in a precise manner in a precise day/hour, or something more unusual like a flood unearthing an ancient  artifact (terrestrial or alien or upper-dimensional) that someone accidentally activates... And here's another possible fanfic! :)

I'm already working on one of those, but things are far from finished. :)

Incidentally (or not) the Japanese of modern days also still respect their kami and keep good relations with them. The Norse and Japanese gods may have cooperated (or the Finnish and Japanese - maybe the kami also like moomins?) or it's just a question of someone being around to hear the warning from the old gods in two separate occasions.

Grey, brilliant ideas! Maybe a UFO crashed and the lifeforms within were totally weird and grotesque, the US tried to study them first but understood it was too dangerous and nuked the site?
The Japanese have many gods and spirits. Some are more like the Norse gods, while others are more connected with nature and resemble the Finnish. I like to think that all these gods have ways to communicate with each other, be it a "Heavenet" Forum or a bar... https://www.umsabadoqualquer.com/category/deuses/

(this is the link for the translated version that I did: https://i.postimg.cc/9fTpHhmM/2844-translated.jpg )

I liked your idea to put the UFO in the mix! :) I'm working on that story already... let's see if it's ready before Y90 :D

Which raises the fascinating question of the similarities in our world  between Finnish and Japanese traditional magics. ... Fascinating concept, and might explain why in-comic their gods might communicate or be related.

I agree, Róisín. It's an interesting link.
(but the landbridge that you refer wasn't in the Bering Strait, between Asia and America?)

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2020, 12:59:42 AM »
To make a slightly more prosaic solution...

...maybe the world leaders/medical people panicked because the patients looked like the last photo here, which was approximately the stage they were at when the border closures began.

thegreyarea

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2020, 06:32:16 AM »
To make a slightly more prosaic solution...

...maybe the world leaders/medical people panicked because the patients looked like the last photo here, which was approximately the stage they were at when the border closures began.
If you think at it for a while that may be one of the most (if not the most) terrifying pages of this comic.

And I'm still waiting for an arc in this comic related with that book/journal. Will it be on the 3rd adventure?
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LilG

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2020, 05:05:42 PM »
Considering what the gods can and cannot do, let’s near in mind that the Norse gods or the Finnish ones aren’t supposed to be almighty. The Norse gods battle with the giants all the time (except when they are fighting amongst themselves) and aren’t by any means always victorious. So the fact that they haven’t saved the entire humanity does not necessarily mean they aren’t around at all.

I know they aren’t omnipotent, sorry if I made it sound like I believed that when I started talking about them (I might have exaggerated by saying they would “rid the world of the illness once and for all”). I meant to say that, by now, 90 years into the future, if they would have came to Earth at some point during the century, they would have made significantly more progress in expanding the Known World, even if they sometimes lost some battles in the process and had to retreat and regroup. Omnipotence wouldn’t be required of them to at least show up and help with the cleanup, while at the same time granting powers to the ones that seem worthy of them, like they do in the comic. If they didn’t have anything to worry about regarding the rash and the well-being of their own world, then coming to Earth should have been their first course of action.

But again, if they were also affected by the rash then that would explain the unwillingness of the few that survived to stay in the physical world, since it wouldn’t be any better than just staying in Tuonela (going with the theory that it’s a refuge for the surviving deities). Wether they stayed there or came to Earth, they would still only be able to bless humans, since, if they ever were to start a crusade to reclaim the “Silent Lands” they would most likely die and then there would be no one left to continue gifting powers.

Also, on the topic of omnipotence, I think we have to assume that there are no omnipotent gods in the ssss universe, as that would pretty much make the story unnecessary. Let’s take for example the Catholic God. If he were omnipotent then the rash wouldn’t have happened at all, erased Thanos-style with a snap of his fingers. Also, if he were somehow corrupted by the rash (going with the idea that the rash is literally out of this world, hence out of his control) he would have became as hellbent on killing all the still living humans as all the other trolls on Earth and, with a simple though, destroy everything. And this would go the same with all the presumed to be omnipotent gods of the real world.


And thorny’s insight is very important! It could well be that the way Iceland was saved by the gods could be divine intervention to make them close borders at the time. Remember they didn’t leave any time for their citizens abroad to return so they must have been extremely determined. There is a thriving and officially recognized religious community of the worshippers of the Norse gods in Iceland in the present day real world, so it could be plausible to think there was a communication channel open.

I suppose that might also be true, though I don’t see what sacrifices the Icelanders believe the gods had to make in order for them to survive (adv 1 page 67), other than wasting a few minutes to tell them “Hey, you better close your borders or you’ll end up über fkd”, if they objectively know (not just believe) that the gods helped them.
But, even if this were true, it wouldn’t mean that they survived following that short exchange of words. I think them warning Iceland would actually be in favor of the theory that they were also affected by the rash. Because, if the gods warned them before even the first patients started trollifing, then they must have known what the plague was capable of doing. And, since they’re not omniscient, wouldn’t seeing it affect their own people (before spilling over into the physical world) be the only way they could have known about the danger?
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Jitter

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2020, 07:14:28 PM »
LilG, I definitely agree there are no omnipotent gods here!

Thegreyarea, you mean like a color out of space?
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thegreyarea

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2020, 09:30:59 PM »
LilG, I definitely agree there are no omnipotent gods here!

Thegreyarea, you mean like a color out of space?
Well, about Omnipotent Gods, they usually make any story a lot less interesting, unless they self-limit their actions for some only-god-knows reason, implying that they either don't care (at best) or promote (at worst) human suffering...
Makes me remember why as I grow up (but still a kid), I disliked, more and more, the Superman stories. He was obviously overpowered, making (almost) mandatory that plots gravitated around kryptonite, which in turn made them boring.

A color out of space plot device would definitively be one way to introduce the Rash on our world, but, as was discussed before, that solution would need to address the connection between extraterrestrial origin and very terrestrial magical/supernatural legends... It's not easy to balance both in a coherent way (and by that I mean without gigantic plot-holes).

BTW I'm really working on a story that includes those elements, inspired by this thread, and particularly by your comments :) It's coming out nicely, I believe. Since we're now in a kind of country-wide (continent-wide?) lockdown I'll be working from home in the coming times (weeks?) and will probably have a little more time to write and other SSSS things... And here I'm, again, trying to see the half-full glass! :-)
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Jitter

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2020, 11:18:16 AM »
Well, those of us who don’t get personally affected (which we of course don’t know yet) it’s not all bad to be forced to take it slower and just slough away for a couple of weeks. If only we didn’t need to be worried/scared/terrified/all of the above for it!
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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2020, 12:26:33 PM »
Personally, I think that the magic existed before the rash, but with all of the recents evolutions in human society, people forgot it and prefered to believe in technology. But my main point is that maybe the gods doesn't really exist in SSSS and that they are a concept created by humans to explain the magic, and what they believe influence their capacities. This would be why Icelandic mages doesn't have the same powers as Finnish mages for example. But this is my theory and if the gods exists it doesn't really change anything, but I think it is more interesting if it is only about humans.

To return to the main topic of this thread, I think that maybe someone rediscovered magic and tried to make some experiments with it and that one of this experiences was to modify a virus or a bacteria by magic and this created the pathogenic agent responsible for the rash. After, I don't know if it would be intentional or not, and it also could be a natural modification which would have happen in a totally natural way like thegreyarea said.
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thegreyarea

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Re: What the Heck is the Rash, anyway?
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2020, 02:32:15 PM »
... But my main point is that maybe the gods doesn't really exist in SSSS and that they are a concept created by humans to explain the magic, and what they believe influence their capacities ... but I think it is more interesting if it is only about humans.

... I don't know if it would be intentional or not, and it also could be a natural modification which would have happen in a totally natural way like thegrayarea said.
The "Magic Without Gods" is an interesting proposal, that also eliminates all those questions about the absence of a more direct intervention. And there's no "talking god" in the story. We only see the effects of their "presence". Even the mystical bird summoned by Onni could be just the manifestation of Onni's powers, in the shape of a bird... And the Dream World could be some kind of "shared conscience" of humanity (imagine that all humans have telepathic capabilities that work on a subconscious level, but those with magical powers can access that space...). So, more fuel for stories! :)

As for a totally natural way, It could be, why not? Earth could just happened to enter a interstellar cloud of magical energy as the galaxy rotated. If those clouds had different densities it would explain variations on magical presence in the world along centuries. (and even more fuel for stories, yeah!)
But what I meant was more a natural (accidental) trigger to supernatural events, like that example of a flood that exposes a powerful artifact.
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