The Stand Still, Stay Silent Fan-Forum
Worlds and Stories => SSSS & ARTD Board => SSSS Re-Read => Topic started by: Jitter on July 05, 2022, 05:50:56 PM
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Are we ready to re-see some action? I know I am!
I think I was hooked already by the cover of Chapter 3, but after seeing that train, I would pause my reading for no reason. I actually love a panel of the train later in Chapter 3 even more than the cover, but in either one, the Dalahästen is the epitome of SSSS world building. 10/10, would never ride.
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From the comments, page 151, Bill Haverberg gets a called-it award, almost (they didn't think of alternate communication forms):
Draksaw Richard Weir • 8 years ago
Also, tough i want everybody to stay alive, lets start the favorite discussion of webcomics: Death Roulette.
So which named character will die first?
Bill Haverberg Draksaw • 8 years ago
Law of drama says something will happen to Turri as that would leave Lalli and Emil unable to communicate in a crisis situation. That would also force character development for all three.
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Guys? Anyone?
Ok, I’ll go. On my first read, I didn’t notice Lalli noticing the clawmarks on the train. Later I was wondering whether the attack scene was a vision Lalli got from touching the marks, or a depiction of Taru’s story. But this time I understand the maks Lalli is looking at cannot be from that accident - the original train has windows (oh the complacency of the Swedes!) and the entire carriage has a different shape. If the original carriage was modified into the new windowless Trainsaw Massacre, the marks would have been gone too. Interesting discussion about the nature of trolls, and there still are some readers wondering if there actually are real trolls at all. And, someone suggesting the saws on top of the train are needed because of spider-deer jumping from trees. I hope that person was still reading when we met the Spidermoose :)
Also, despite having looked at the panel with the attack many times, I only now noticed how the people on the right are getting their heads sliced right through. They were probably the lucky ones, though.
This was also the first time I paid proper attention to all of Emil and Lalli’s interaction in the station hall. Emil is so precious. I don’t understand why many commenters seem to dislike him so much <3
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Thanks thorny for saving me from double posting on myself (this doesn’t count as I’m now replying to you :) ) In addition to that one there are several painful comments about how everyone wishes Tuuri will not face too harsh consequences for her curiosity… it will never not be too soon.
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When I look at the Chapter 3 flash page, I see the blood on the train, but not any claw marks...
On page 145, when the troll breaks in the two people in the front left are just sitting there. I noticed that when there are drawing of a lot of people there are always one or two that look like they "have a stick up their butt"
And those are some deep claw marks on the following panel. (I never noticed them either)
On page 146, I wonder why the conductor is giving Emil "the look". He has not done anything yet....
Page 148-149 Lalli's Moon magic is great. The drawing is pretty cool also when the moon pops out.
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The woman at the front, I just realized, has just spilled her drink all over; but the man at the front looks only annoyed, as if people were making a commotion for no reason. Maybe he's supposed to just not have noticed yet? but it looks as if his arm is half missing or at least half under the giant, which makes that seem pretty unlikely.
And Emil was giving the conductor rather a look in the panel before -- I've no idea why; and then looks away trying to appear so very very innocent in the panel where she looks at him. Maybe that's why?
… it will never not be too soon.
I wondered a bit about drawing attention to that; but it was pretty much Minna's exact stated motivation. And we do need to be able to talk about it.
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I don't interpret Emil's glance at Agneta (which is her name, as we find out) as anything other than 'bah, official stuff, let's get through this', but then I guess he can see she was holding a picture of him (pretty fancy train passes, eh?), which showed him with sparkles, and he manifests the sparkles to match.
Minna's comment on whether the touching of the damage caused a vision or whether it's just an illustration of Taru's recounting of the incidents, "I'll leave that up for everyone to interpret as they prefer, both are viable alternatives story-wise. :3"
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Ah yes. The marks. Not so odd that Lalli is scared to go in one? At least before a prayer. While still seeing the Moon. How else would he know if his plea is answered with a blessing if not by bathing in Moonlight under that window? And the bed belt hassle. Emil making the mistake of not using it even after Lalli does - and tries to use point-it-sign- language to tell him to do the same? And about leaving the compartment. Maybe you should listen to the scout more... well, at least the train guards pay attention when Lalli points them to the trouble. Emil's totally wearing his bed belt later. Did he think that keeps giants from attacking or something? Then we get Emil's stupid Danish-joke and Mikkel playing his infamous face-cancer prank on Emil.
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I will comment on each page, and then maybe add some generalities.
142: I kind of skipped past this image on my first reading, but even if I hadn't, I wouldn't have been as shocked as most new readers, as I had been (somewhat) spoilered by TV Tropes, and was expecting giant monsters of some kind. I still like the comment (by Zadown): Whenever you are having RL problems, just think of that train running over them, chainsaws chewing air and aforementioned problems at full speed.
143: We find out why Our Heroes are taking the train and not a boat: the train is free! Also, the Swedes at least seem a bit optimistic. I suppose they haven't taken it before. (I can't remember -- does the Committee take the train back?)
144: OMG, Emil trying to impress Lalli by showing him the train (as started in 143) and then Lalli taking too-good a look... And Emil somehow completely failing to understand the meaning of the scratches, even though he goes back to look at them. Emil. Do you think they're a manufacturing defect? (At least Tuuri knows, because of the anti-Swedish gossip shared by Taru.)
145: So, it could be a vision. Minna says so, in spite of Jitter's earlier comments! I guess it doesn't have to be tied to those specific scratches? Except we don't really see Lalli get these sorts of visions otherwise? (I mean, we don't get to see much of what he sees, except through his actions and briefly through Emil's eyes, but doesn't this seem like a pretty useful power that would have come in handy in some more obvious way?)
146: I don't see anything weird about the look Emil gives--I think he's trying to match his photo, as people say--but I suspect that the look he gets back is due to some not on his ticket mentioning the stolen Cleanser supplies. Or some other shenanigans. This is a military train, there's probably a rundown of his military record on there.
And hmm, so, people have fallen off the ramp before? Sigh.
Regarding the comments, I am shocked that Noah O says it's impossible to understand Lalli. To me it's pretty clear that he's been reacting with alarm and confusion to seeing many things for the first time, and is now reacting with alarm and... lack of confusion... to seeing something he is familiar with.
147: Oh Tuuri! I get where you're coming from--you're stressed out from the story, Lalli's issue seems random to you, and it's not like he's going to tell you it is not--but maybe you could try? Your threats are awful. And this 'just carry him around' thing is, as noted, a bit creepy. (Part of the blame goes to Lalli, too. I know he has his unique issues, but surely describing *danger* to people is one thing he has been taught to do? Repeatedly?)
148: Love how the guard doesn't even notice the beautiful performance going on before him. I guess it's all Finnish to him. And I am definitely in agreement with whoever said that Lalli is likely concerned with whether the gods CAN hear him, so far away: he puts in verses about the distance, and I think his uncertain, single-eye-opening face is not something he does after every spell. So his little hop onto the train is not just 'Yay! Moon!' but also 'Yay! Kuutar hears me still!'
...more some other time...
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(Part of the blame goes to Lalli, too. I know he has his unique issues, but surely describing *danger* to people is one thing he has been taught to do? Repeatedly?)
Kyllä
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Exactly! He even got extra classes on 'using his words' after that one. If anything, 'mrh' is a step down from 'kyllä'.
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Exactly! He even got extra classes on 'using his words' after that one. If anything, 'mrh' is a step down from 'kyllä'.
Yes well, I suppose it's more that he knows Tuuri isn't going to listen no matter what he says. If she doesn't listen to her older brother, why would she listen to her younger cousin? Bodily resistance at least gets her attention long enough to let Lalli remain long enough for his prayer.
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(I can't remember -- does the Committee take the train back?)
They are shown getting into the train (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=372) to leave Öresundsbro Base, but whether they went directly / train-all-the-way to Mora (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=448) remains unclear.
(At least Tuuri knows, because of the anti-Swedish gossip shared by Taru.)
Not to mention that Lalli is within earshot at least for part of it, too. Frankly, back when I read it, I took the flashback as being a visual aid to Tarus tale, not an actual vision of Lalli ...
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Pages 153-154. Some great / unfortunate Emil moments, and absolutely fabulous Lalli! Great gofy moments before the action starts.
Interestingl, the comments have loads of shipping on p 154 already <3
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Emil is one of the characters that has the most personal growth through the story to me. You see he starts out as a self-absorbed young man. You see hints that there is more to him. I like how he changes through the adventures.
I like how the conductor turns off the noisy radio broadcasting the new Troll disco station on page 157. Pge 158 is the first time you really get a look at the nasties...(Though you get a feel for them on page 138 when they are explaining the expedition).
(Another though I had from the earlier pages in panel 138. If books are so valuable, there is a fortune in that room. )
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There are also photos of a troll (or giant) in the report(?) partially visible from under the train designs on page 156. Interestingly familiar hand / claw btw!
I love the succession of the landscape panels here. On p 153 there is just the derelict building in the woods. Then on 155 there is blood on the saws (the first kronk), several wrecked houses and remains of a car. And oh yes, some sleepers inside the house. And finally on 157 the train is crossing a city (or town, probably), the moon is becoming overcast and the local residents are making inviting gestures in the windows. This series moves the train and the story deeper into darkness and the Silence, and also reminds the reader that Cities are Bad.
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Also on page 157 Lalli has one eye opened (probably senses monsters.). The kitty in the background does also...
Danger..Danger!!
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So, trying to catch up with the reread here! And what a great point to do so!
Page 157 is an incredible sequence of panels with dynamic and organic framing that tells a story by itself. The train crossing the snow on a seemingly pacific night, lightened by the moon, and then entering a city, and the moon, whose protection Lalli called, gradually slipping behind the clouds. All that in shades of blue, except for the touch of blood on the train, showing that it already (!) cut through something...
And then we get a good view of the city, and the panel "ends" on the right showing us that "growth", marked, again, by the change from blue to red. Together with the moon's absence it's telling they entered in dangerous territory, which is reinforced by the following panels, where the radio's normal speech is "contaminated" by that dark, unreadable mix of sounds, up to the point that the officer turns it off. This is all so well done graphically! I've seen this page several times but Minna's talent still amazes me.
After that we see that Lalli is still awake, perhaps having some trouble to sleep inside that strange machine, or maybe sensing something else... But back them we didn't know it!
At the end the view "dissolves", indicating that he's entering in a dreamy state...
Them we get to page 158, and we scroll down, and down and (in my case) still having trouble to understand what the hell is this thing while still scrolling down until we see Lalli and got punched by the terrifying understanding of the whole monster!
I remember back them we haven't saw much of these "monsters". It was all just suggestions, and even at the "accident" on page 145 the nature of the thing that hit the train wasn't very clear (back then I had overlook the spine... Just saw it on a second or third view).
But there it was, the Enemy! And it was so. very. frightenning! One of those things that you know you should look better, because it's so interesting and well drawn, but at the same time you don't want to look, because it's already nightmare fuel... And gets worse, when one notices the suggestion of it being pregnant. O_O
That page to me is one of the most best on the whole SSSS, and would make a great poster, if people were able to look at it for some time...
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Page 158 is indeed a masterpiece. I’m glad it didn’t put me off the entire comic :) I don’t like horror. Apparently a comic is just the perfect mix for me, a movie is too graphic while a book allows me to imagine too graphic things. But drawn it doesn’t look quite too frightening, and gives my imagination some grounding.
If anyone here hasn’t noticed the recommendation to loom at it upside down, do! It’s worse. A lot worse. The vestiges of humanity are much more prominent that way.
The discussion is a delight. So many ways of saying Nope! :) Also there’s an interesting tidbit from Minna. Someone is asking about whether all mages see things like this or if it’s only Lalli. Se says that lesser mages would only see some wisps, while the more powerful ones get the full picture. Now we obviously don’t know how much more there would be in the “full picture” but this is definitely more than some wisps. So, Lalli’s innate power must be towards the “powerful” rather than the “lesser” side.
There are also many links to other interesting creatures, mostly from other webcomics. I didn’t click on those, because of the not liking horror thingy.
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So how bad does Onni have it? Lalli needs to see lots for his scouting; Onni likely sees even more and that's why he never wanted to leave Keuruu. Also, why he would never let Tuuri go anywhere. Lalli is a slightly different matter, what with being immune, mage and began the scouting trade with grandma Ensi. Ah well, that's Lalli - usually he does things when his older relative tells him to, and when no one has given him something to do, he sleeps. This counts Tuuri and Onni after that dreadful year -- and well, Tuuri doing something Onni doesn't approve of simply is not comprehensible to Lalli until that happens and then he's very confused about it.
It's not until after Tuuri is dead and Onni lies to him in a letter that he makes any kind of decision on his own. A letter where Onni lies about his whereabouts instead of telling Lalli to keep away -- well, certain things happened after Hilja was acting oddly... so if Onni thought lying to Lalli would keep him away, he didn't know him at all.
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On page 168, the person closing the compartment door: when I look at that panel I always first see their arm bending around in an impossible circle, partly because it's drawn a little oddly and partly because of the way it lines up with the circular design on the door; I have to look twice to see the hand and realize that the arm's just going behind that design. So when I first saw the page I thought the person must have somehow been caused by the troll to start mutating instantly.
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Jitter, I must look at those links to other horrors...
Suominoita, yes, Onni must have seen a lot, and thus be full of reasons to keep himself, and Tuuri, on a safe area. At that light his objections to Tuuri "going outside" at the begginning even seem a bit bland...
Thorny, yes, those arms do look a bit strange.
Back to page 159
It's a comforting page after the previous madness, all in blue tones and regular frames, with the interesting dashed text bubbles to tell us Emil is whispering. The funny part is how one realizes that Lalli isn't understanding a bit of all that talk :)
(And, believe me, I just now noticed the sleeping cat in panel 3 foreground!)
Then in the last panel Emil pushes Lalli, and I can imagine the Finnish and others familiar with their (very) large definition of "comfort zone" squeaking in terror! :D
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And then, on page 160, the sequence continues with Lalli staring at Emil in a murderous way.
To Emil's luck something else captures Lalli attention, and since he's a good guy we see him trying to convince Emil to buckle up.
Again to my shame I must admit only now noticing the frightened cat behind them...
And then in the last panel the regular frame shatters to give space to some... letters?
(BTW reading the comments I find not to be the only one feeling a sense of shipping on those pages...) :emil: :lalli:
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I don't read Lalli as murderous there! More annoyed/confused, but still interested.
And yes, the shipping... I am pretty sure that my shipping started around this time, when Minna's author's notes excitedly mentioned the possibility of a sort of hug (which then happens during the attack). Basically, it made me think that she had been adding subtext on purpose, and I thought, "oh, it's going to be a comic with a canonical same-sex couple, like Nimona, I guess that's a common thing now, cool!'
But while I am talking about that 'hug'... People refer to it as 'character growth' for Emil, but it seems more like part of who he already is to me. I mean, he clearly has protective/caretaking instincts, and not just towards Lalli: I think his relationship with the triplets demonstrates that, too. As will his interactions with dogs and cats, later. (There could be military training involved, too: he likely sees Lalli as a 'confused civilian' at this point.)
Anyway, one of the reasons why Emil is so fun is his combination of intrinsic kindness with selfishness and insecurity. And the main sort of growth I see in him is a decrease in annoying posturing, and maybe a realization as to what is actually important to him. (At the end of Adventure Two, he doesn't seem to care about money beyond having enough to pay for a basic single room.)
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It seems to me we are having trouble keeping up, with the amount of comments growing fast. I added a second week to this part, as I suspect the relatively low amount of discussion is not because anyone thinks is section is boring or insignificant.
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Just to comment on page 172. I love how Lalli thinks something looks not quite right.
Ah! He knows
Fluff..Fluff..Fluff
:sparkle: :sparkle:
I wonder if Lalli like the sparkles, or he feels that is part of Emil...
Or both
On page 175, I never noticed the buzz-saws on top of the train :)
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I don't read Lalli as murderous there! More annoyed/confused, but still interested.
Anyway, one of the reasons why Emil is so fun is his combination of intrinsic kindness with selfishness and insecurity. And the main sort of growth I see in him is a decrease in annoying posturing, and maybe a realization as to what is actually important to him. (At the end of Adventure Two, he doesn't seem to care about money beyond having enough to pay for a basic single room.)
I always though he was in some kind of pain (Spiritually or mentally) from the trolls invading his space
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So, in the current pages, there are a lot of comments about Emil being protective, and a lot of predictions that Lalli will end up saving him. (I guess that came true eventually.) I liked the argument about whether Lalli would have a knife on him at all times, or not. (I don't actually know if he does, outside the dream world. I am guessing yes, though?)
The troll's death seems a bit of a deus ex machina, though. I mean, it might make sense for the train to have tunnels for this purpose, but its death seems to surprise the guards, so I guess not.
Emil might be clumsy and not particularly cool-headed, but has good reflexes! (We'll see his punching reflex a couple more times.) Why is he choking Lalli, though? The way he holds Lalli is kind of the way you are supposed to hold someone when saving them from drowning, so they'll focus on pulling on your arm and not on drowning you. But that seems less applicable here.
The creepiness of the whole attack (and of the monster, with its earrings and black speech) seems to have convinced some commenters that SOMEONE is going to die. Top contender is Siv, though.
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Page 173, in the comments: discussion of the opening of the forum. (The link given on that page doesn't work now, though.)
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Page 162: Emil falls out of bed and is seen holding his right cheek in apparent pain in the last panel.
163: Emil tries to find out what's going on, only to be told to go back to bed and scolded for not wearing thee bed belt.
164: Lalli steps out with a worried look, stands still, stays silent and points at the ceiling. One of the guards takes notice.
165: Now the guards act, Emil has fallen down and calls for Lalli, his hair covering the bruise.
Isn't it funny how Lalli manages better communication with the guards, despite Emil being the one speaking the language? SSSS is a good thing, see? 166: The guards tell Emil to get out of the way. Emil calls Lalli his friend and explains he's just going to take him out of the way with him because Lalli does not understand Swedish. Emil hugs Lalli behind the guards... Well maybe knowing the language helps too.
167: Well isn't this monster huge, taking the whole page all on its own and that's not all of it!
168: Someone closes the door to the next compartment just in time when the monster hits the glass and it begins to break! Though apparently the monster is getting hurt.
169: It's quite the chaos, the guards using swords and guns against the monster.
170: One of the guards is hurt a bit, the monstrous thing gets a bit too close to Emil holding Lalli like a child holds his plushy toy -- brave little Emil punches the poor help-begging monster.
171: Now they need to move, though they don't know what's going on. Taru is practical, seeing to it that Emil and Lalli will have clothes in the morning.
172: Situation over, Emil heads quickly to a bed and fastens his bed belt. Lalli grooms Emil's messy hair back to order. The wounded guard is patched up.
173: We're getting there.
174: A monitor informs where things happened, people are already prepared to clean and fix the poor train.
175: Thigh-high boots for Lalli, and new uniforms are on. The train is lifted up into the sunlight.
176: Everyone comes out and we see the others we need to meet.
177: So this is where they are now. Interesting bridge over there, lifted up... Danish flags here and there. That's it for Chapter 3.
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From the comments, page 151, Bill Haverberg gets a called-it award, almost (they didn't think of alternate communication forms):
Honestly, you can kinda logic out who is going to die. When I started reading I knew someone was going to die and at some point later in the story it was obvious to me. Though doing so this early is a bit impressive.
Side note! I think some people thought that Minna had said that no one would die, when she never said that, but that myth probably came later.
And I am caught up! Woo! I have more thoughts but I will post them later.
There are also photos of a troll (or giant) in the report(?) partially visible from under the train designs on page 156. Interestingly familiar hand / claw btw!
I love the succession of the landscape panels here. On p 153 there is just the derelict building in the woods. Then on 155 there is blood on the saws (the first kronk), several wrecked houses and remains of a car. And oh yes, some sleepers inside the house. And finally on 157 the train is crossing a city (or town, probably), the moon is becoming overcast and the local residents are making inviting gestures in the windows. This series moves the train and the story deeper into darkness and the Silence, and also reminds the reader that Cities are Bad.
Oh, god I love the environmental storytelling here! And I had missed some of it!
So, trying to catch up with the reread here! And what a great point to do so!
*Points to everthign I cut off* This!
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I liked the argument about whether Lalli would have a knife on him at all times, or not. (I don't actually know if he does, outside the dream world. I am guessing yes, though?)
He had a knife at hand and a sheath on his belt when he returned from scouting and proceeded to do the Kallohonka for Cthulhund (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=366). The others were preparing a meal, so they should have noticed if Lalli were to have taken one for the purpose, too. I'd say it's a safe bet that Lalli wouldn't scout out beyond the underside of his bed without a puukko. ;)
The troll's death seems a bit of a deus ex machina, though. I mean, it might make sense for the train to have tunnels for this purpose, but its death seems to surprise the guards, so I guess not.
IIRC it has been said that the Y90 train lines largely (but not 100%) run where Y0 tracks have been, so there shouldn't be tunnels everywhere all of a sudden. Apart from that, unless they're retracting, I'd wonder how the trainsaws would mix with grossling-brushoff-tunnels. Possibly that tunnel only served the purpose this time because that giant was so, well, gigantic.
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It wouldn’t have to be a tunnel even, just a bridge for a major road, assuming the giant is gigantic enough. The tunnels and bridges of our time have room for the electricity lines above the train, so the saws should fit into that space.
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I think Lalli always has a knife. It does seem to be a common thing among Finns, even in our world.
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142-152-
I think SSSS was planned to be made into a book from early on, so I can forgive this, but it does bother me when the pages are wider than the web page. [You can pull up the image on a new window if you want to.]
Who Tuuri is talking to on the page 143 is not well communicated. I am not sure if she is talking to Taru then to Torbjörn or if she is just talking to Torbjörn. The first panel on the next page is a little confusing as well but that panel I found readable.
It seems that Lalli has powers of psychometry. If he does then I think we can assume Finnish mages do. But psychometry is far removed from the powers we see them have on the mage info page or from what we see later. On the other hand, we could just be seeing Taru’s story and Lalli could just be concerned over the marks but I think that makes less sense in the context of the scene.
I don’t mind that Tuuri has character flaws (like her disregard for Lalli as like a person and her being manipulative) but I think these problems mostly go unacknowledged on both a text and subtextual level.
If I recall correctly, early on in the comic Minna was teasing whether or not magic was real. When I first read I already knew the comic had magic and I found it the early ambiguity odd. On reread, I think it works as it keeps magic in the background for a bit, so we can learn other things without being overwhelmed with even more information. It's a still a bit weird but I think it works out.
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Don’t most mages anywhere have at least some psychometry? Not to mention a lot of non-mage people?
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We already had a discussion about 'Lalli's vision' here somewhere, and someone (JoB?) pointed out that those marks had to be a different attack (even the train looked different, during that disaster, and the attacking monster clearly did more than scratch it). So that makes a vision much less likely.
So I think the story and the scratchmarks are two different pieces of evidence for the upcoming danger.
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Minna says in the comments that it can be either, but those markings cannot be from the original attack (that was me). The whole train is different, and while I suppose they could have made extremely extensive changes in the train, as in it theoretically still being the ”same train”, modifications include a complete overhaul of the structure of the carriage. Not to mention the fact that the walls appear to be made of entirely different material (sheet metal vs heavy plate). So, the section that was scratched, would have been completely rebuilt. Using the same meta would include reworkimg it to the smelter, or at least almost so. Hence any marks would have been gone after the reworking.
Now, I’m not 100 % sure it is actually the Dalahästen Lalli is inspecting, but since all the other trains are under covers it very much looks like it is. Also it seems unlikely they would save than one train, as several redesigns have taken place between the accident and this date (admittedly we don’t know if all or even any of the designs were ever built).
And finallly, the KRRONNKKS during the journey clearly indicate that there likely are marks to the train every now and then even when there isn’t a breach.
Btw the decisive action all train guards are taking clearly indicates they are not blindly trusting the train’s structural defenses (any more) and while breachs probably are rare, they are by no means unheard of.
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Btw the decisive action all train guards are taking clearly indicates they are not blindly trusting the train’s structural defenses (any more) and while breachs probably are rare, they are by no means unheard of.
I would think that the train conductors(guards) are all military or ex-military. Plus immune..
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Oh, definitely. The entire train line is military. But, they also seem to have a procedure for a breach situation, as there is zero chaotic milling about.
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Oh, definitely. The entire train line is military. But, they also seem to have a procedure for a breach situation, as there is zero chaotic milling about.
Makes one wonder how Rare these things happen :D
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153-161
These pages had some great building of tension!
162-170
And our first look at a real troll! A bit dampened by page 158 but still. Nevertheless, it’s great to see!
For a tangent, do you think Agneta would be shipped with Sigrun if there were more female characters of note?
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Agneta IS shipped with Sigrun! Well, a little. There's a handful of fics on AO3. And yes, she's a pretty cool character, both in design and behavior. Maybe I'll try to write about her for the 'work' prompt.
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Agneta IS shipped with Sigrun! Well, a little. There's a handful of fics on AO3. And yes, she's a pretty cool character, both in design and behavior. Maybe I'll try to write about her for the 'work' prompt.
OOOO!! That sounds really cool!!
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171-178
And that’s the end of chapter 3!
The pages here are mostly just winding down after our first real horror scene. Some of the characters are scared and confused but it’s not lingered on and the audience knows that the danger has passed, and there's bits of humor, then we get four whole pages without any text as we transition to morning and safety.
I think the ending of this chapter really assures the reader that the characters are fine now but we have also gotten a look at the danger of this world and we know there is more to come.
And of course, a peck at Sigrun and Mikkel!
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Comments on the last few pages, finally...
174: The way the cleaning crew reacts to the train's arrival suggests that roof removal is NOT an everyday occurence. Just like the announcer said! But I am more intrigued by Minna's note that Lalli could not have done anything during the fight, as we will later see him do plenty during fights, also with magic. (Although I guess that he tends to use his shiny disk spell; maybe he doesn't know it yet?)
175: Medical cats! And the first appearance of Lalli's boots, inspiring this exchange in the comments:
Emil: "And i almost suffocated Lalli."
Tuuri: "Wait, what?"
Emil: "...and you know what ? I think he didn't like it. I feel a bit depressed now."
Tuuri: "Judging by those boots, he did like it, and tries to go hardcore. *sniff* My little cousin, all grown up. You think they sell whips in Denmark...?"
Oh, and some comments from Minna about how the Rash doesn't live outside the host for very long, prompting questions as to why there was any decontamination in Mora. (Unanswered.)
176: We finally meet Sigrun and Mikkel. Cue many discussions of Mikkel's likely personality (no fun, big softie, stoic...) and also declarations of shipping.
177: Just an awesome pic.
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Just a few random comments left for chapter 3. The number of comments has now topped what is even theoretically possible for me to keep up, but I’ll try to check the best comments nevertheless.
But. Firstly, I have previously totally failed to appreciate the full awesomeness of the train cats. On page 169 they are full on claw and tooth (ewwww) on the impossbly large giant. They only freak out on p 169 when the sudden splort causes them to fall from considerable height. Also one of the train guards is high up and looks about to get eaten (see boot on the right on page 169). Considering that their injuries seem surprisingly minor. And the medical cats in p 175 have a cat-sized stretcher in case there were catsualties. Luckily not needed!
Another thing I don’t recall having paid attention to earlier is the awesome gruesomeness (of one of the) giant’s head at the bottom of 168. So many great details!
The other passengers (the two immune men we see here) seem remarkably unfazed. I’m sure it doesn’t usually get as bad as this, but still it seems like it’s not quite as unheard of as the train line would like people to think.
I have to wonder what Lalli thinks of all this. At the time of original reading we didn’t know how (much more) competent he is in comparison to Emil at this point. But it seems he doesn’t mind too much, based on the hair sparkalyzer he pulls on p 172. I have to assume the Ship-o-Meter in the comments reads over 9000 in the comments :) Although during the fight even Lalli does look worried. We don’t know of course whether he’s worried about the situation or just that he doesn’t have his weapons and also hindered by a clingy Swede. Except on p 170 where he seems to be gesturing “safeword safeword”. Corraborating the ideas tehta mentioned below from comments on 175 :)
Finally, does anyone have any suggestions what the symbols on panel 3 of p 174 are? They very much look like the Swedish Cleansers’ symbol, but this is Danish territory? Although the train is Swedish, could they also have the duty to arrange the contamination?
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But. Firstly, I have previously totally failed to appreciate the full awesomeness of the train cats.
They are awesome. You have to pay attention or you could miss them.
Also Someone commented that the troll on page 170 had earrings and a bracelet on. I totally missed that and it is so much sadder when tyou realize they were people...
P 180
Emil making friends and influencing people again (LOL)
Lalli tugging at his boots. Considering they *are* snug
P182
Poor Lalli He looks like WTF did i get myself into...or rather Tuuri got him into..
p183-184
Admiral Olsen..no secret gets by him..Nor will it be a secret..
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Finally, does anyone have any suggestions what the symbols on panel 3 of p 174 are?
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm unter the impression that those "columns" are actually transparent cylinders with a liquid and its surface level visible inside; Considering the amounts they promptly spritz from their fire hoses, my guess would be the disinfectant/decontamination liquid to clean the train's outsides.
In fact, in the last panel, we seem to see their hoses connected directly to the sides of one such "column"; the shape of their base is quite distinctive.
So, basically a "some special liquid stored here" symbol.
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JoB, you are right! I didn’t notice the hoses.
I assume however that it’s some other liquid than what Emil is going giddy over on p 190 :emil: (which also has a similar symbol)
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I assume however that it’s some other liquid than what Emil is going giddy over on p 190 :emil: (which also has a similar symbol)
Or maybe, after his cleanser training, he thinks that any carefully marked "special liquid" should either go into his flamethrower, or, even better, promptly blow it to pieces. :3
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JoB, you are right! I didn’t notice the hoses.
I assume however that it’s some other liquid than what Emil is going giddy over on p 190 :emil: (which also has a similar symbol)
They are similar. It would be a funny/sad story people mixing them up. Especially any person who is color blind.
The image is red and looks like fire p190
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z9TgkJc4/fire-red.png)
The image is blue and looks like water P174
(https://i.postimg.cc/FkJCbz9g/water-blue.png)
The holding containers are different... Though some kind of accelerant would be a liquid also
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Clearly, these signs were designed by a descendant of the person who designed the icons for Google mail, drive, home, etc, using the philosophy that all icons must be alike.
And I had forgotten about Emil's excitement at finding out that he wouldn't be without fiery supplies, after all!
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Chapter four opens with introductions. We learn a lot about Sigrun and Mikkel both in these first pages. And so does poor Lalli. Lalli is also introduced to the Boots, which seem to be giving him some trouble in the beginning. I certainly wouldn’t be comfortable in such boots!
Interesting observation, Mikkel is not listed as military at all in his character box. I have all the time been thinking he is, among his other trades, also somehow affiliated with the Danish and / or Norwegian military. I suppose it’s because Torb says on p 181 that Sig and Mik will be “your superiors”. When I stop to think about it, this is not a military mission, but it works like it were. They even call Reynir a civilian, which seems to indicate they think of the team as not civilians. How’s this work?
Another response for military Mikkel is probably admiral Olsen and his mention of Mikkel having worked in the base. But of course there are civilian jobs too.
Speaking of Olsen, there’s a well remembered character. Admittedly, Adventure 1 doesn’t really have many side characters for obvious reasons (not human ones anyway) but still, the good admiral leaves a lasting impression in the few pages he has. Also he’s one of the few male characters with a proper Viking style. Really we should have more braided beards, don’t you think?
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page 182: Mikkel feels entitled to physically grab somebody who obviously doesn't want to be touched, and force Lalli to shake hands with him. A lot of the comments seem to take it for granted that of course he's entitled to do this. Somewhat further down the comments I thought at first there were some people objecting to it -- but no, they're objecting to Sigrun's backslap, not to the forced handshake or to Mikkel's grabbing and holding on to Lalli. In fact, they seem to be praising it.
I didn't read all the comments, and don't know whether anyone did object, later on.
page 186: anybody know where the forum page discussing Sigrun's giving nicknames (mentioned in the comments) is? The link in the comments is dead.
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Yeah, many people seem to be praising Mikkel's handshake 'teaching moment', and saying that Lalli would appreciate being given such clear instructions! Hmm. I'd hate it.
Regarding Mikkel's textbox: I am guessing that it's just an oversight, since the boxes seem to contain both current and past professions (with the past being crossed out, in Emil's case) and I don't think Mikkel could have been so close to the failed invasion if he wasn't military at some point? My half-baked theory was that he is ex-military, and that, yes, the team is supposed to act like a military unit; Sigrun certainly seems to think she is in command. This doesn't seem crazy to me. Don't some organizations like the police also have a chain of command?
One thing I find interesting: the command Sigrun sees herself giving when the team comes across a troll is "run away" not "kill it dead". But, overall, the way she reacts upon meeting Lalli is not entirely stupid--she notices the real issue with his language skills immediately--so I don't know why people in the comments refer to her as an idiot. Perhaps because it's weird that she hasn't read her crew's personel files (while Mikkel clearly has).
I would very much like to hear Lalli's honest reply to "what's life like for you", though. Or, actually, anybody's.
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One thing I find interesting: the command Sigrun sees herself giving when the team comes across a troll is "run away" not "kill it dead".
Hmmm, not necessarily, I think. It's the command she'd need everyone present to understand at once and react accordingly; "kill it" is either rather self-evident (when it is already attacking/defending) or only moderately time-critical (when you still need to sneak up to it in the first place).
Of course, in a real "run away" situation, the message you really want understood at once might be in which direction to run; not everyone might be aware of all the trolls that suddenly popped up and block some of them, and splitting the party is infamously a no-no.
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....and page 187-188 Where Emil throws the mirror. It hit The warehouse worker person on the head. The manifests get mixed up, and they have candles instead of food...
Plus in the comments section a lot of people think Reynir is in one of those boxes....not yet (heh heh)
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Oh, is that what the mixup is! It makes more sense for me to have forgotten it, now.
That's right -- the box Reynir shows up in comes later, and it's because they realized they were short on food and tried to order more. Did get some of it along with Reynir, IIRC.
They get uniforms, which does seem military -- but it really isn't clear to me how this would come under the military, or what chain of command would be above Sigrun and Mikkel. Maybe the society is so militarized, due to the drastic need for defense, that they just automatically organize most things in a very similar fashion?
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As all official members of the team (with the possible exception of Mikkel as just discussed) are military personnel immediately transferring from their previous postings, it would probably be quite natural for them to fall into the chain of command without much question.
We don’t know anything about the relationship between the Nordic Council and the military forces of various nations but it’s not a formally formed joint forces mission because at least Tuuri and Lalli quit their jobs instead of getting a transfer. Sigrun was more or less sent on the job by the Generals Eide but not in a very official capacity.
Maybe Mikkel was blackmailed or otherwise wrangled by Trond to go along with the local chain of command and the kids just fell into file without even stopping to consider it. When Tuuri and Reynir followed Mikkel Tuuri was clearly thinking she’s disobeying and didn’t even try to go for “you can’t actually tell me what to do”.
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Wouldn't it be weird for Tuuri to say that in almost any job, though? Civilians have bosses they have to obey, too. (But, yeah, given that only Mikkel has ever worked outside the military, the others might not even consider using anything but military discipline in the work place. And Mikkel does 'mutiny' as he sees fit, after first trying to collaborate with Sigrun and being overruled. Of course, later they do learn to work together.)
That said, the fact that Tuuri and Lalli can just 'quit' without much consequence means that 'military' might be a somewhat more flexible designation than it is in modern jobs.
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179-186
This cover is such a delight. No one looks like they’re doing a good job.
Lalli is also introduced to the Boots, which seem to be giving him some trouble in the beginning. I certainly wouldn’t be comfortable in such boots!
Any idea of what the boots are or what they are made from?
Interesting observation, Mikkel is not listed as military at all in his character box. I have all the time been thinking he is, among his other trades, also somehow affiliated with the Danish and / or Norwegian military. I suppose it’s because Torb says on p 181 that Sig and Mik will be “your superiors”. When I stop to think about it, this is not a military mission, but it works like it were. They even call Reynir a civilian, which seems to indicate they think of the team as not civilians. How’s this work?
Another response for military Mikkel is probably admiral Olsen and his mention of Mikkel having worked in the base. But of course there are civilian jobs too.
I think this could be something either forgotten about or added later. Or it could be a poor thought out and/or explained detail.
page 182: Mikkel feels entitled to physically grab somebody who obviously doesn't want to be touched, and force Lalli to shake hands with him. A lot of the comments seem to take it for granted that of course he's entitled to do this. Somewhat further down the comments I thought at first there were some people objecting to it -- but no, they're objecting to Sigrun's backslap, not to the forced handshake or to Mikkel's grabbing and holding on to Lalli. In fact, they seem to be praising it.
I didn't read all the comments, and don't know whether anyone did object, later on.
Honstly, I am more surprised that people are bothered by Sigrun's backslap at all. My guess is that Lalli is bothered by the backslap so the commenters were more bothered by that.
Anyway, we start this chapter with some world building. Honestly, when you think about the world in SSSS it’s not great, even beyond the plague and undead monsters. Like the fact that most Norwegians are illiterate. Even Sigrun, who by all indications is privileged. Then there is Iceland which at best neglects to teach history and at worst suppresses information. Sweden has blatant issues with poverty but this one is explored with the Västerström’s. The others come into play in one way or another but they are left, if memory serves, ultimately unexamined.
Page 181 is basically perfect but I can’t read it without thinking about an edit of the last panel. The one where Tuuri asks Sigrun, “You're so tall. How will boys kiss you?” and Sigrun says, “They can’t. They’re unworthy.” I don’t know if that brings it down or makes it better lol.
My understanding is that (irl) Danish is always difficult for Swedes and Norwegians to understand but Danes, depending on their dialect, may be able to understand Swedish and Norwegian.
So Lalli views Sigrun’s smack on the back and Emil’s fist to shoulder bump as hitting. This is due in no small part to his lack of social interaction. But I do wonder if part of his response is due to Tuuri (and possibly others) hitting him at times...
So does no one want to help the Danes retake their land? Does the Danish government not want help? Norwegians join the Cleaners sometimes and I think Mikkel worked with Norwegians in the past. It’s not like it would be unheard of.
But hey, Shouty Man is here! No one can hear their story grievances over him! And with Cattank we have met 7/8 of A1’s main characters./j
I must add that there is so much good characterization and interactions that character is just oozing out of the pages! This started before but it really picks up here and it is why I and (I believe) many of you love this story in spite of problems with it or it's creator.
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187 - 193
The whole thing about Emil causing the food-candle mix up, I missed this on my own reading, I think it’s easy to forget.
Sigrun just covers for Emil without question, which is sweet but it could be because she or the whole team could get in trouble if they broke it, but if it was already broken, it’s not on them.
Why do people think yelling helps people understand you? Speaking up can help if you were speaking softly but I don’t know how yelling would even make your words clearer. (With the obvious exception of the person you were speaking to was hard of hearing or deaf.)
Page 190- It was said earlier that, “Emil joined the military for the wrong reasons,” but I have seen worse.
Why does Sigrun’s file say she can drive? Did someone ask here, even sometime in the past, and she said yes?
Page 192 panel 8. Do I think it was intended as foreshadowing? No. Does it read like foreshadowing? Yes.
Page 193. Did I ever mention the humor in SSSS? Because it is quite funny.
Also, I am impressed by others' guessing powers. Like “Bready” joining the team by crate. It’s a reasonable guess but I don’t think it’s an obvious one.
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187 - 193
Why do people think yelling helps people understand you? Speaking up can help if you were speaking softly but I don’t know how yelling would even make your words clearer. (With the obvious exception of the person you were speaking to was hard of hearing or deaf.)
Beats me. I personally find that loudness makes words less clear. Yelling or not.
Page 190- It was said earlier that, “Emil joined the military for the wrong reasons,” but I have seen worse.
Why does Sigrun’s file say she can drive? Did someone ask here, even sometime in the past, and she said yes?
Apparently. The whole "how hard can it be" certainly suggests this is on Sigrun's over-confidence, not that she ever drove anything (oh well never mind, Tuuri can do it, she is a mechanic and has at least some sort of driving experience, she just has much less in the way of confidence).
Page 192 panel 8. Do I think it was intended as foreshadowing? No. Does it read like foreshadowing? Yes.
The broken family picture in 189 though, a crack going trough Tuuri's eyes? I think that one was intentional, and the whole matter about :onni: :'(
Page 193. Did I ever mention the humor in SSSS? Because it is quite funny.
Also, I am impressed by others' guessing powers. Like “Bready” joining the team by crate. It’s a reasonable guess but I don’t think it’s an obvious one.
Yes, the whole matter about Emil's face and not understanding spoken Danish. Well he apparently got something (wrongly) - "my face? did he call me ugly?" until he sees the bruise in the mirror. Too bad Mikkel didn't have a mirror to clarify his meaning sooner. We get nice little info pages about the Nordic languages mid-chapter. The picture about language trees has been seen elsewhere in discussions about languages, out of context.
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Why do people think yelling helps people understand you? Speaking up can help if you were speaking softly but I don’t know how yelling would even make your words clearer. (With the obvious exception of the person you were speaking to was hard of hearing or deaf.)
Even if the person you're speaking to is hard of hearing: yelling probably won't help and may only be annoying. Speak moderately louder, yes: but often the important thing to do is to enunciate very clearly, and almost nobody can do that while yelling. (And if they're entirely deaf, yelling certainly won't help; though enunciating may, if they're reading lips.)
p190: reference in the comments to "Skippy's List of Things He's Not Allowed To Do Anymore" -- is this the genesis of the thing about the list of things Mikkel's not allowed to do anymore?
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I tend to think of raising ones voice as a kind of yelling and I forgot that others do not. But yeah, actually yelling at HOH and deaf people probably won't help anything but raising your voice may.
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Speaking as HOH, speaking louder may help a bit, speaking as clearly as possible while facing the HOH person so they can maybe lipread helps a lot.
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Ah Page 194. I am unsure if a bridge that has been neglected for 90 would peel like that. I would expect huge holes where the asphalt or concrete disintegrated...
Page 196...My favorite.. I just gush over this page. A lot of comments about missing languages. The page would be huge if everything was included...
Page 197. Poor Lalli he gets car sick also...
Page 199 The beginning of Sigrun's story. Someone made a comment that the feast all looked like the same building as the first prologue. (Maybe by comparing it to page 9).
Page 200 Love Sigrun's smack down :)
Page 202 no more bridge
Page 204 Lalli's dream place. Lovely artwork here
Page 206 another beautiful art. I do have a question. The bottom panel the "ting" and the birdlike blue thing. Any ideas?
Page 208. Blue bird again? I still really cannot figure it out. You also get the sense of foreboding on the bottom panel.
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Page 206 another beautiful art. I do have a question. The bottom panel the "ting" and the birdlike blue thing. Any ideas?
Page 208. Blue bird again? I still really cannot figure it out. You also get the sense of foreboding on the bottom panel.
Soul bird (https://sssscomic.fandom.com/wiki/Sielulintu)
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Oh I had forgotten how good Chapter 4 is! The foreboding, the mystery of the Dream World, magic, Emil soothing Lalli’s sleep, humor, Tuuri and Emil both unhappy about sending Lalli out for the night. This chapter opens up so many of the themes in the future adventure!
Also it makes me sad that we never really learned much about the Dream World and especially the Dream Sea. What are the… inhabitants? Do they prey on all sleeping humans or just mages? What happens if a mage loses a battle? Apparently nothing good, based on this and the other underwater fight, but would it actually be lethal or do Lalli and Onni just think so?
Do you think the Handsy Moose is one entity or a swarm of several creatures? I counted seven skulls, the hands were innumerable.
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IT gives you the feeling of something big on the horizon. I also like how Emil and Lalli are starting (Emil's concern and touching on 214)
Also, know what we know now. Emil get his first hit of Muck :)
I love page 222 the art!
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His first muck and his first useless climb in the Silent World (both happened also at Björköfjärden)
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Oh I had forgotten how good Chapter 4 is! The foreboding, the mystery of the Dream World, magic, Emil soothing Lalli’s sleep, humor, Tuuri and Emil both unhappy about sending Lalli out for the night. This chapter opens up so many of the themes in the future adventure!
Also it makes me sad that we never really learned much about the Dream World and especially the Dream Sea. What are the… inhabitants? Do they prey on all sleeping humans or just mages? What happens if a mage loses a battle? Apparently nothing good, based on this and the other underwater fight, but would it actually be lethal or do Lalli and Onni just think so?
Well, I guess it's similar to losing your Luonto, except more mental than physical, getting very exhausted, possibly insomnia as well. Seeing as you lose that part of yourself. It would make you very vulnerable and very likely to die for real.
As for the blue bird -- why do I think of that old lullaby called Sininen uni (The blue dream). Anyway, suppose the Blue Bird guards dreams like the swan guards the dead?
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As for the blue bird -- why do I think of that old lullaby called Sininen uni (The blue dream). Anyway, suppose the Blue Bird guards dreams like the swan guards the dead?
I like that idea!! it would make for a good story
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Interesting observation, Mikkel is not listed as military at all in his character box. I have all the time been thinking he is, among his other trades, also somehow affiliated with the Danish and / or Norwegian military. I suppose it’s because Torb says on p 181 that Sig and Mik will be “your superiors”. When I stop to think about it, this is not a military mission, but it works like it were. They even call Reynir a civilian, which seems to indicate they think of the team as not civilians. How’s this work?
Another response for military Mikkel is probably admiral Olsen and his mention of Mikkel having worked in the base. But of course there are civilian jobs too.
Mikkel worked in the military a decade ago. He was fired right before the disastrous night that wiped out the Danish forces.
I imagine a decade old position you were fired from isn't enough to keep on his character card - but he did go through military training.
187 - 193
The whole thing about Emil causing the food-candle mix up, I missed this on my own reading, I think it’s easy to forget.
I NEVER realized that's what was going on. I was confused why it was shown.
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194 - 203
To me, Tuuri looks younger than she is but only by two or three years. I think she looks about the same age as Lalli and Emil.
I had either forgotten or completely missed the photos on page 199. Or at least the familiar faces.
Was I the only one who questioned Sigrun’s competency early on? It becomes clear later once you see her in action, but before that I had to wonder.
I would have never thought of this myself, but people theorizing that Mikkel was here for some secret (Trond related) reason makes sense to me.
204 - 208
Dream world panels! (They are very pretty. That is all.)
209 - 213
A wild Reynir appears!
214 - 222
I try to avoid repeats, both my own and others', but page 214 is too cute. It's just such a soft and quiet little moment between Emil and Lalli.
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Was I the only one who questioned Sigrun’s competency early on? It becomes clear later once you see her in action, but before that I had to wonder.
Oh gosh no. She acted like an overeager, spoiled child when we first saw her. Without knowing more about Norway, it seems incredibly naive and ignorant to think that a dangerous, poorly funded trip into the silent world is a "vacation".
It wouldn't have surprised me to find out she'd never led a mission herself. And in comic - if you agree with Mikkel, it's established that she is inexperienced and wasn't prepared for this kind of mission by the way she gives up after Emil & Lalli go missing.
I really want adv 3 to have been Norway because I'm super curious about what things are like in Norway.
Sweden's civilized areas are relatively extremely safe and haven't had an outbreak in 50 years. Their cleaners seem to be basically a well oiled machine and their routine does seem to limit direct troll interaction.
Denmark is limited to one highly defended island and they don't really try expanding much after what happened a decade ago.
Norway seems to be the most viking-like, it seems like their geography doesn't allow the larger more established safe areas that Sweden does so there's more salvage missions and more direct interaction with trolls.
I would have never thought of this myself, but people theorizing that Mikkel was here for some secret (Trond related) reason makes sense to me.
I hadn't heard of that but it's interesting.
Personally I think Trond will have asked him to keep an eye out for a cure and gave him information of what to look out for, or knew Mikkel's background meant he already would know. And that's why Mikkel sort of went against orders and went out looking by himself that day.
Although iirc Trond was against them going to search for the cure. So that ideas scrapped haha
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Although iirc Trond was against them going to search for the cure. So that ideas scrapped haha
No, that was Taru, agreed to by Siv ... (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=467)
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No, that was Taru, agreed to by Siv ... (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=467)
Ah thank you! Then headcanon accepted. :)
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And yet again I come to the party after everyone else has gone home. Oh well.
...So Lalli views Sigrun’s smack on the back and Emil’s fist to shoulder bump as hitting. This is due in no small part to his lack of social interaction. But I do wonder if part of his response is due to Tuuri (and possibly others) hitting him at times...
So, I'd like to do a little analysis of the two hits, and what they tell us about Emil.
In the last panel of page 182, Sigrun hits Lalli extremely hard and from behind, so he can't see it coming.
In panel five of the next page, Emil gently taps Lalli on the shoulder, where Lalli can see what's going on.
So in the space of the conversation, Emil took note of Lalli's reaction and deliberately made his "friendly punch" as different from Sigrun's as he possibly could.
Emil is observant.
Emil is intelligent enough to analyze what went wrong and why and how to modify his own behavior so it won't go wrong when he does it.
Emil cares enough to modify his behavior.
...Kind of a lot to show in just two panels, isn't it?
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And yet again I come to the party after everyone else has gone home. Oh well.So, I'd like to do a little analysis of the two hits, and what they tell us about Emil.
In the last panel of page 182, Sigrun hits Lalli extremely hard and from behind, so he can't see it coming.
In panel five of the next page, Emil gently taps Lalli on the shoulder, where Lalli can see what's going on.
So in the space of the conversation, Emil took note of Lalli's reaction and deliberately made his "friendly punch" as different from Sigrun's as he possibly could.
Emil is observant.
Emil is intelligent enough to analyze what went wrong and why and how to modify his own behavior so it won't go wrong when he does it.
Emil cares enough to modify his behavior.
...Kind of a lot to show in just two panels, isn't it?
It does show a lot, but from the beginning, Emil made an effort to reach out to Lalli and protect him. Weather he saw a kindred spirit or something else,
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Minna did say they were ‘soulmates’, so I took his behaviour as a manifestation of that. Of course, given Emil’s background, he would not have the concept, perhaps he would just feel drawn to Lalli and not know why?
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Looney, this was a great observation and you describe it well! I haven’t read the TvTropes page much and have loads of Forum content from the time the comic was originally appearing equally unread. But I have read some of the Disqus comments.
It seems at least originally Emil was considered by many readers to be only the sum of his most obvious flaws, ignorance (very well put, ignorance is not the same thing as stupidity!) and vanity, and the way he was played for laughs as an accident prone oaf. I can’t really recall what I thought about him as I reading the entire Adventure 1 within a few days, but it seems to me this (stupid Emil) was a misconception from the beginning. He gets shown many good characteristics from his introduction onwards. The refusal to leave unconscious Lalli behind later does not come out of the blue, far from it.
This here sequence you point out is a great example! But there are many earlier too. It also seems to me that a lot of his fussing over his appearance is more about his insecurities than actual vanity or feelings of superiority over others. He wants to be a good right hand Viking to Sigrun, he wants to be good to Lalli in particular (whether he recognizes him as someone special in whatever sense or originally just as someone of the same age and potential friend) and he also regrets gettig off with the wrong foot with Reynir. He doesn’t always succeed, but he wants to be a good person, because he is a good person.
Looney, it’s very good of you to comment now! The point of the schedule is to facilitate discussion, but comments are welcome at any time! The main point of making several threads is exactly that people reading at different times can join in!
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It also seems to me that a lot of his fussing over his appearance is more about his insecurities than actual vanity or feelings of superiority over others.
I agree with that. It isn't 'see how much better looking I am than anybody else!', it's 'oh no! people will think I'm a slob if I don't look just right!'
Emil struck me, I think from the beginning, as an ignorant insecure teenager. Like many ignorant people, he thinks he knows more than he does. Like a sensible person, when he finds out otherwise he adjusts, instead of refusing to accept more and//or better information.
We're all ignorant of a very large number of things -- the universe doesn't fit inside any one head. Becoming aware of this and acknowledging it is a necessary step in becoming, not all-knowing, but less ignorant of the things we're interested in and also of the things we're doing that affect others.
-- Tuuri's also shown as ignorant and naive: she believes what she was told about what people from other countries look like. And Sigrun's shown as ignorant of anything having to do with book learning. Minna often plays this for laughs; and sometimes I think she's doing it only for laughs, which is unpleasant; but it also makes her characters a whole lot more real, and points out that flawed characters can nevertheless be overall positive people. And, as has been said by others here, it allows for character development.
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In some sense, you could say that all of the characters in SSSS are ignorant to some degree. Emil, Sigrun and Tuuri have already been mentioned, but then you have Reynir's whole jam being that he's a naive and accidental newcomer to the entire situation and Lalli's lack of shared language and weirdly glaring holes in his general knowledge. Mikkel is perhaps the least naive of them all, but he still dismisses the legitimacy of magic.
All of the characters have large gaps in their abilities and knowledge bases, and I think that's partly why the group comes together so well.