Print Page - How do you create?

Creative Corner => Academy Board => Topic started by: moredhel on April 04, 2021, 01:31:35 PM

Title: How do you create?
Post by: moredhel on April 04, 2021, 01:31:35 PM

In this thread I want to talk about how people create artwork. Mor the craft aspect than the art. I started a thread because it does not fit the art museum or the wip thread.

I'm just curious how do you do this? People seem to do it completely different than I do. E. g. I do not have any work in progress this is not how I work. If I am inspired I go completely maniac, gather huge ammounts of reference pictueres an than draw that thing. The only breaks are for eating, work, sleeping (my wife says not enough) and because of hand cramps. This can take a few days, but I do not stop before it feels finished.

Many people seem to do this differently. So how do you do this? How do you organize it? Is the process of creating itself scheduled when you do something?

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Jitter on April 04, 2021, 01:37:39 PM

Fascinating topic, Moredhel! I have enjoyed the recent discussions about visual arts and learning them in various art threads!

A question: do you intend this particularly for visual arts such as drawing and painting, or any creative process? We have many writers here and I would suggest to include all of them into this discussion.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Maglor on April 04, 2021, 01:45:44 PM

Well, idk if my oppinion counts here, as it's not about drawing.
But basicly it starts with a wish.
If I have an idea for lyrics, I keep it in my head long enough to forget it. And if it's not forgotten by the end of a day, that means it's a good idea. And then the interesting stuff begins. I make up a few lines. Around them I build the general idea of how the lyric should sound like, what technical things I want there. Sometimes I feel like experimenting. Anyway after it's done, the boring part starts. Sometimes you have to waste about 30 min for one word. You gotta be strict and merciless to yourself, and wich is more important - to your creation. I'm usually not such a perfectionist, but when it comes to poetry it's everything or nothing.
Pretty same thing with Eng-Rus translations. When I want to translate from the other language, I have to find a good unrimed translation first.
Rus-Eng translations are the hardest part here.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: SkyWhalePod on April 04, 2021, 01:58:56 PM

Ooh this is good, I'm eager to hear what people say.

I have a bad habit of putting off ideas until it feels like the Right Time to Explore Them -- which of course never comes, the inspiration just vanishes. So lately I've been trying to impulsively jump on inspiration the moment it comes and see what comes out of it. This applies to drawing, but also to writing scripts. I don't usually work on something for more than one sitting, and a sitting can last for a few hours but not more -- the stress of potentially not having something turn out right makes it hard to sit down and create in the first place, but the stress of *actually being able to see* if something didn't turn out right makes it super hard to come back and keep working after I put something down.

I'd like to be able to approach creating things in a new way, though, so I'm hoping that lots of people chime in here with their own processes.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: moredhel on April 04, 2021, 02:02:22 PM

Quote from: Jitter on April 04, 2021, 01:37:39 PM

Fascinating topic, Moredhel! I have enjoyed the recent discussions about visual arts and learning them in various art threads!

A question: do you intend this particularly for visual arts such as drawing and painting, or any creative process? We have many writers here and I would suggest to include all of them into this discussion.

I would include every creative process. I think inspiration and to organize things are relevant for everyone creating anything.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: moredhel on April 04, 2021, 03:24:13 PM

Quote from: SkyWhalePod on April 04, 2021, 01:58:56 PM

Ooh this is good, I'm eager to hear what people say.

I have a bad habit of putting off ideas until it feels like the Right Time to Explore Them

This is something I newer tried.

Quote from: SkyWhalePod on April 04, 2021, 01:58:56 PM

I don't usually work on something for more than one sitting, and a sitting can last for a few hours but not more

This is completely different from my habits, when I do it it does not matter if it takes minutest, hours or days.

Quote from: SkyWhalePod on April 04, 2021, 01:58:56 PM

-- the stress of potentially not having something turn out right makes it hard to sit down and create in the first place, but the stress of *actually being able to see* if something didn't turn out right makes it super hard to come back and keep working after I put something down.

I'd like to be able to approach creating things in a new way, though, so I'm hoping that lots of people chime in here with their own processes.

I'm hoping for that too.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Opaque on April 04, 2021, 04:26:35 PM

Maybe it's not how everyone starts things but usually the very first thing that happens when I want to draw something is I dream it. Like literally dream it. Afterward I would quickly scribble a rough sketch of that dream for later use. Or just day dream about scenarios and not draw anything at all then forget what you were just thinking about. I have the attention span of a goldfish.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Sc0ut on April 04, 2021, 04:57:30 PM

For me it really depends on what I'm creating (art is also my job), whether there are any constraints such as a deadline or a certain style, and how I'm feeling at the moment.

Sometimes I do it in the way you described. That was certainly how I used to draw most of the time when I was younger and had all the freedom in the world and no standards to speak of ;D Now I'm depressed a lot, I'm much more critical of my work, and other thoughts don't seem as willing to leave my mind, so I often have to force myself to sit down and draw. I generally listen to music or a podcast while I do it, and I always have multiple works in progress, some are several years old even.

I'm curious why you ask this :)

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: moredhel on April 04, 2021, 06:11:18 PM

Creating without some music to dim your mind to the right activity level would be hard I think.

I am asking this because I am curious. We do have a whole WIP thread and the last time I had something like this was in school when I was forced to paint things I did not want to paint, with a really hard medium (watercolor) on a really unsuitable paper. So I was puzzled how this can happen. People seem to do things different than I do. Maybe the other methods are better and I can learn something.
(I as a near to completely untaught creator I am sure there is a lot to learn).

And the other reason is the act of being inspired to create something is a topic I can nearly never talk to someone about. Even when it is described in a book and my wife reads the same book she does not get it. And I wonder if inspiration and creating works in a similar way for everyone or if there are completely different ways how this happens.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Opaque on April 04, 2021, 06:30:49 PM

Quote from: Sc0ut on April 04, 2021, 04:57:30 PM

Now I'm depressed a lot, I'm much more critical of my work, and other thoughts don't seem as willing to leave my mind, so I often have to force myself to sit down and draw.

Depression is an unfortunate reality of many artists. It's very difficult or impossible to force yourself to work on what you're passionate about when your mind says otherwise. Sometimes working on a little at a time helps get things done but it probably won't help you be less critical of your work. Which can cause burnout real quick. Taking a break from work and hobbies once in a while may help relax your mind but it can also become an excuse for procrastination.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on April 04, 2021, 07:37:36 PM

/me creeps quietly out from under his rock

So, once again, I am weird, by which I mean that my creative style depends entirely on the medium in which I'm operating.

First, my filks: Either I read something that sounds just enough like a line of lyrics I'm familiar with, or I hear a song and switch the lyrics in my mind; in neither case is it particularly intentional.

Second, my fanfics: Several years ago now, I posted a ramble (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=856.msg102398#msg102398) on things that I try to do with AUs to make them interesting beyond the "Wouldn't it be cool if..." where they tend to originate in my brain.

Third, my drawing-things (like the work from which I snipped my avatar): So, I can't really draw anything that's actually recognizable; what I can do is arrange geometric designs in weird and intricate patterns. For that, I start with a space and cut it into smaller and smaller pieces, then I look at a bunch of "stock forms" I have ready and decide what to put where, and in every case I've altered at least one of the figures so as to make it unique.

So, that's what I do.

/me dashes back beneath the rock

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2021, 12:04:10 AM

I can’t art, though there are many wonderful artists among my family and friends. But I can visualise art and tell my concept in detail to somebody who can make it real. Some of the collaborations I have done on the forum with my poetry and the art of others have worked that way. Others have been done differently, with me writing around their art.

I’m better at three-dimensional stuff - woodwork, metalwork, leatherwork, hand sewing, even embroidery. And I can design gardens and arrange flowers. (One of my sons is an artist, farmer, musician and quite well known garden designer).

I can make stories and poetry well enough, but the process varies from just suddenly finding ‘something lying on the ground in the bottom of my mind’ whole and complete, to painstakingly constructing a structure word by word. Most often I start a poem with a word, a phrase, an image or a theme and work out from there. And I am very familiar with the process of constructing songs and poems within ancient traditional structures, where there is already an existing framework of traditional forms and phrases. I actually do that quite a lot for ceremonies and seasonal celebrations within the local Pagan community.

When I am writing factual articles, teaching outlines, essays, a lifetime’s worth of reports and technical articles or something like the cookery book I am currently working on, I start with chapter headings, an outline for each chapter, headings and subheadings by subject within the chapters, and within that arrange the information in paragraphs of related information. Whatever is relevant to what I am writing about.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Yastreb on April 05, 2021, 09:49:36 AM

I'm pretty much in Róisín's corner (except that I can't do 3-D art; these hands weren't made for it).

My writing topics often emerge from free association; take a topic and let my mind drift. As an example... many years ago, I was in the Dardanelles, visiting the Gallipoli Peninsula with an Australian War Memorial tour group. One day three of us were looking around the area near our hotel and found a pillbox dating from World War 2. Next to the pillbox was a small hollow, and in it were at least a dozen shoes, all for the left foot. We puzzled over that for a while before heading back, and on the way I began to work out the details for a Cult of the Left Foot, tossing out the ideas to my companions as we went.

Another source can be dreams. I'm a frequent vivid dreamer, and I keep a record of some of my more intense dreams, often reading the notes and reflecting on those to see what I can come up with. Several scenes in my Dragonhost stories have come from that process.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Mirasol on April 05, 2021, 12:30:51 PM

He, neat, I thought I was the only one using dreams as an inspiration. I write the ones with an interesting story down, and sometimes use aspects of it in actual stories I write. I only rarely turn them into art though, I feel like I can´t really put all the aspects in a picture. Plus, when I´m forgetting dreams, the visual parts are always the first to go.

Spoiler: art • show

Spoiler: writing • show

So yeah, in short, I get inspiration quickly but have very little focus to keep working on something even if I have a lot of fun creating it, but am doing my best to change that or find ways to work around it. For the most part it´s getting better.

Phew, that was a wall of text... Sorry... ^^" I´ll put it under a spoiler.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Songbird on April 05, 2021, 12:35:17 PM

I'm very interested in how people write in special. The closest storytelling shape I know often hinges on a state of mind I can't achieve when writing. It could be just lack of practice, bad habits acting up, and the absence of reassuring role models to observe working and improving their craft in the same way one can do with drawing, but I mostly flail hopelessly for a while and let writing slip out of my schedule. :'D

I like to build things. I've got a wide range of skills up my jack-of-all-trades sleeve—woodworking, coding, sewing (...)—the creation aspect being the common thread uniting them all. It's not like I master any of these, they're just the intersection of need and thoroughly enjoying to learn something new. Most of these have a straightforward objective, I use them to solve daily issues and the way I create is similar to how I create a category of illustrations: A set of requirements and possible ways to accomplish them.

When it comes to illustrations the purpose alters the creation process.

- Works done in a professional capacity are first and foremost a list of words. I'll pluck dusty entries from my visual library that match the briefing (if any!), researching and chasing connected imagery around the internet, then I'll set about at mixing derivations into something that works.

- Idle works aren't as methodical. Those are the artworks done when I get the time and want to explore some small idea or aspect of something. There will often be a list of potential things to include, but there's freedom to play as well. Studies also belong to this category. I just go where I feel like going. It's fun!

- Then there's inspiration. I don't like very much to feel "inspired" to be honest. It's like getting possessed by an idea; an obsessive thought that springs up at me during downtime and when resting, and comes up when actively working on something else as well. It's there every time I let my guard down and look at the sides, annoying and making me restless. Sometimes I'll do spitpaints just to get rid of them.

Whatever the type of art I'm doing I tend to zone out like many of you, working in long stretches of hours compressed in "just more 5 minutes!", getting irritated at something mysterious until I realize I'm starving, listening to music to concentrate. I get grumpy at interruptions and I don't enjoy having people watch me work as well. It changes my posture to something stiffer leading to quicker hand pains. :<

The issue with writing is that I don't zone out. I'm fully conscious and painfully aware of every second invested. Somehow my mind decided it takes as much time to read what I wrote as it takes to write it... when I already know I tend to be long-winded. It's a mortifying thought I have no counter-argument to combat yet. "People can just gloss over or stop reading if they don't like it" or "It's not long-winded if it's engaging!" aren't enough. Deep down I know I likely need only a bit more confidence and to get used to the act of writing. And in case you're wondering about the formatting of this post, yes, it's to help people skip to the important bits if they want. Halp, I can't turn it off! ;D

In any case to write I like to read a bit of something I wrote previously or another work in a similar voice to get the correct tone. I don't work out ideas actively when writing, I just let them rattle in my skull during the day then write down the little promising insights so I don't forget them. I don't wait for the perfect phrasing to come into mind otherwise I'll be forever staring at a blank page; I just start writing without being sure where I'm going and edit it into oblivion. This leads to a sentence or scene branching out into too many possible simultaneous outcomes though and I haven't learned how to deal with it yet. I like tightly woven stories so I do some sort of loose timeline-style outline beforehand to get this into mine, then I treat it as a guiding lampposts thing, not rules for the story I must obey.

I'm a latecomer still figuring it all. I was a young adult when I realized writing fantasy stories wasn't a career path reserved to foreigners from distant lands only, and by that time I was already too busy grappling with life to give as much love and time to writing as I could to art.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Alkia on April 05, 2021, 12:46:36 PM

This is a really cool thread :0!!

I'm mainly a visual artist, and when I do make something other than 2d drawing art my process is totally different.

For art art, I kinda have two "modes":
- Art for fun; this is stuff I enjoy working on, mostly standalone character illustrations or scenes. Here, I just draw whatever I want whenever I want, and it varies how and when I get it done; I have an ongoing list of ideas, and when an idea pops into my head I write it down there. Those ideas usually come after I've been inspired by something I've read/watched/seen/heard, but sometimes they just vaporize out of nowhere into my head too. I then do something on that list whenever; some ideas get drawn right after I write them down, others have been on there for years :'D. As for the actual length it takes me for each piece, sometimes I get them done in one sitting, other times it takes a couple goes (usually the stuff I enjoy drawing doesn't take much time, so it gets finished in one go). Oh yeah, and "whenever I feel like it" is basically whenever I'm not doing schoolwork, socializing or sleeping or eating, reading, or drawing other things (it's pretty low on the list, heh).

- Art for practice/goals; my goal right now is to have art become my career, to make money off of it, and that's partly a conceivable goal because I can see myself enjoying art as work. I know it's probably better to have inspiration for your art, but I can totally imagine forcing myself to work on X piece of art for X many hours a day and viewing it as work that needs to get done. I can imagine myself just looking at it as "welp, that's how I'm gonna get food on the table, and I'd rather do this thing where I enjoy the process and the end product for money than any other thing I can think of".
I don't know if that sounds like a kind of boring/depressing look at creativity, and it's probably easier said than done and I've never, y'know, actually tried sustaining myself from my art (the only set art I do is trying to work an hour a day on my comic), but that's how I see it. Working on X thing for X many hours to get it done, and if I enjoy it and learn something along the way that's great!!

As for those other creative things I do, which is poetry and music, inspiration for those hits so rarely that when I do get an idea I scramble to create it as quickly as possible ;D. Maybe that's also because I don't practice those intentionally as much

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tzelly on April 05, 2021, 12:49:04 PM

Great idea! I will share for both my art and writing processes.

My creative process is sporadic, it highly depends on so many factors. I like to expose myself to work I find inspirational to get myself into the creating mood. Darksouls and Bloodborn games are a great source of that for me if I wish to create some dark horror creatures or gods, the details in the games and all the hidden lore really makes me want to up my game. If I need something more whimsical or dreamy, I'll watch a ghibli film.

Such things are also subject to my current emotional state, as others have pointed out, depression is the difficult to work with as it saps all motivation and energy. Some music I found helps me when I also need a shift in mood. When I'm feeling especially down I like to play one of my fave bands Diary of Dreams to wallow in the mood, maybe sketch some to get it out, and when I am done being sad I move to more upbeat music. Maybe from RIOT.

I also have tried to keep a small journal to write done ideas for a game I'm working on. Also keeping a regular journal and/or sketchbook will help with ideas by just flipping through past pages.

I'm also a bit scattered today so sorry if this is confusing or all over the place

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: moredhel on April 05, 2021, 01:04:02 PM

Quote from: Songbird on April 05, 2021, 12:35:17 PM

- Then there's inspiration. I don't like very much to feel "inspired" to be honest. It's like getting possessed by an idea

Good to read I am not the only maniac here. But I do enjoy the feeling itself. Not so much its Impact on the rest of my life.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2021, 11:36:50 PM

Yeah, the idea that grabs you by the brain and says: “Write me. Now.” is a very tough thing to deal with. I have had a song or poem ambush me like that while I am on the bus or in the middle of doing something else. What I am doing seems irrelevant to what comes - in the middle of a committee meeting, loading gear into a truck in the desert, or mucking out the poultry shed are all situations in which I have been lightning-bolted by a song or poem. Difficult.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Keep Looking on April 06, 2021, 09:47:25 AM

Right now I write poetry mostly just to, like, deal with stuff in my life? Sometimes it takes a few days - I'll start a poem, and then write a fragment, and then come back to it. But then some days I come home - usually from church, because church makes me feel awful - and it's like I'm glued to my chair and I just have to write *something* because I'm so tired and I'm so just choking on everything.

Sometimes, though, art and poetry is just about the construction, not the emotion. I know that when I was regularly writing poems for the SSSS pages, it was less how I write poems now and more how I paint - I'd have my inspiration and I'd play with the feelings and aesthetic of the page alongside the construction of the poem - rhythm, rhyme, line length etc. Like how when I'm painting I'll think about how to mix up the colours right and try and decide on the right way to paint this section or that section, and just how I'm going to go about the whole thing and how it's gonna look good - painting isn't so much about feelings for me?

Also with poetry I like to think about how it'd sound spoken - the way I write is very, uh, speak-able, whether it's rhyming or free verse. I should do slam poetry sometime.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: ohnosir on September 04, 2021, 02:54:22 AM

Wow, this topic is super interesting and I love reading the replies! It's so cool to read how y'all develop your art, and really cool to see how others develop arts that are totally different from anything I can do, like poetry, music or fabric work
Art-wise, even though I've hardcore tried to learn human figures from my comic, I'm mostly inspired originally by scientific research (as someone who's done lots of paleoart and is super into creature design). I was always opposed to the other students at my art school, bc my art is all about putting things together in a logical manner, rather than any "fine" art. But aside from paleo/creature design, I love how colours work together. But as a - apparently naturally born - printmaker, I am horrible at "blending" like painters do, I am all about layering colours to find new ones. This is why the only "painting" I'm capable of is watercolours lol (also why I reject copics in favour of prisma markers ngl)
As far as writing....it's 100% character driven. My characters tell me their story, whether it's short or long form. Maybe it's crazy, but I do really envision them as separate entities, and they have their own demands. It's kinda tiring when I have to reject some of those demands in favour of a neat plot though, but hey, they were born into my world.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on September 04, 2021, 06:21:59 AM

Wow, cool thread. It has made me think about how different (and more annoying) writing is for me from any other creative hobby...

I am not a skilled visual artist. I know the basics of how to use some types of paints, plain sewing and woodworking, some embroidery... The only thing I have actual training in is flameworking/glassblowing. But unless I am making something utilitarian, like a shelf (in which case I just... make it?) most of the time I look at these crafty activities as play. I will just sit down, maybe with some vague idea, and do whatever feels right. Somehow, I am mostly motivated by colour. I love the interplay of colours. I care about the end product much less than about the process, because the process tends to be a joyous flow experience for me. (This is the only way to do glassblowing, btw, because of how often your best pieces break just as you're finishing them...)

But writing is my blessing and my curse. It's very much about the end product; I am a selfish writer, in that what usually motivates me is my wish that a specific story exist so I can read it. (I do reread about 90% of my own stuff from time to time, and most of it does scratch the itch I had when I wrote it quite well.) I have done a few fic exchanges, and the ones where I really couldn't get on with the prompt were very hard for me.

The writing process is, ugh, let's say emotionally fraught in a way I really, really dislike. It goes through endless loops of:
1. Have idea, think it is amazingly awesome, jot down the basics while feeling pleased with self.
2. Come back to edit what I wrote during my flash of inspiration. Get depressed at how poorly my prose flows.
3. While editing, realize that my inspired ideas were actually very stupid. Some of the worst I ever had. And that, if I share this piece with anyone who liked my older works, they will finally realize that I have a stupid brain.
4. Have an identity crisis.
5. ...slowly think of a way to maybe fix the awfulness. Wait, that's actually brilliant! Let's go back to 1.

I go through this loop many, many times until I am happy with a piece. Although I think 'resigned' is a better word than 'happy' here. At the point where I stop I am usually like, "okay this seems to do the job but I am so familiar with it that the words no longer make any sense". So I set things aside to get cold before I do more editing.

Oh, also, generally speaking, I am a plotter/planner, and tend to have a pretty clear idea of the general shape of a story before I even start. (This includes checking in with all the characters to make sure they are OK with what I am planning to make them do,) By the end, I like for stories to have a sense of... I don't know how to describe it, connection and balance? So different elements I might use (themes, locations, phrases) reoccur in various ways, and that there isn't e.g. some random POV somewhere that I only use once and never again? Also, I need for all plot threads to be tied off neatly. (I have no idea whether any of this is actually making the story better for readers. It just bugs me, like an itchy seam.)

Last month I did an experiment of trying to write a multi-chapter fic with no planning, and it started off great (so freeing, almost a flow experience) but by the end the 'agony' aspects of writing hit me very hard. I still find the story pretty unbalanced, and have many regrets. So I think it's back to planning for me!

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: ohnosir on September 08, 2021, 09:18:26 PM

Wow, you have a lot of cool skills, especially glassblowing! My roommate for a bit in college did that too, it seems like some insane wizardry to me though. Have you posted any of your pieces here on the forum? Glassblowing or your otherwise "crafty" stuff.
And damn how dare you steal my writing technique :p These feels hit right where it hurts. I'm interested to see the end product!

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Jitter on September 09, 2021, 03:40:13 AM

I have only started to do "artistic" type creative stuff when in this fandom, so in the last couple of years. I mean that I work as an environmental consultant and I do feel my work is often (not by any means always!) creative too. Finding solutions to problems and building tools or writing reports flexes the creative muscles for me. The processes are similar too, when I'm inspired. Difference is of course that work things need to get done whether I'm inspired or not.

When I get into some idea properly, I can be slightly obsessed. Just recently I saw a prompt from tehta for a runo poem / spell for Onni to perform in one of her fics (it's M rated so I'm not linking it here but it's on the AO3 for the interested). I have been writing some runos for my own fics and separately so I already have the gist of it. So, after the prompt, potential verses just started flooding my mind. Not in actually obsessive way that I couldn't think of anything else (which is good, as the subject matter was a bit dubious) but so that when I had a free moment, they kept forming and disappearing. I had gotten inspired. Often this makes it hard to go to sleep at night, when the story / the planting plan for my garden / the presentation for an important client just keeps going round and round.

There is a big difference between story / poetry inspiration and work creativity however. With the stories it often feels like the inspiration is external to me, as if the story flows from somewhere else into my mind. I obviously know it's originating from my own mind, but oftentimes it surely doesn't feel like that. When writing work stuff, the process is much more clearly in my control, even though the actual arriving to a solution is still quite messy. But it feels like I'm digging in my own archives for things to add, while for the stories it sometimes feels like hearing echoes from a repository somewhere else. As if the writing is an attempt to capture an existing story in an acceptable way?

Does this make any sense? I know I'm not the only one with this experience, but I don't know how well I'm able to put it into words. I read a fascinating article some years ago about some research done on how artists (it was probably authors, if I recall correctly) perceive their inspiration. Many felt similarly to me that it is external, some had very definite experience of the direction from which it comes to them too! Or how it moves near them and they need to catch it, or it will be lost forever. It's no surprise to me that the Muses are viewed as personal entities!

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on September 09, 2021, 11:21:43 AM

I experience inspiration similarly, in the sense that it comes from outside my conscious mind, but differently, in that I still think it's coming from some part of myself.

I think one reason for this is that I definitely do experience something similar in my work (which is software development / applied AI). When faces with a thorny algorithmic/math problem, I will think and think about it, brainstorm on paper, despair... and then one day the solution will just BE THERE. It'll just pour into my consciousness from some other place. Often, it will feel very simple and obvious. And I somehow can't quite believe in a software muse, so my internal metaphor is that there is a compartment of my mind that works on such problems while the conscious parts are, I don't know, staring at trees, or arguing about kitchen chores, or reading fanfic.

Scenes will often arrive in my mind in just the same way, pretty complete (although not written in clear prose, sigh). I keep many files of random scenelets that just popped into my mind. When I plan a new story, it's usually built around a selection of them.

Oh, and I will try to post some pics of my glass stuff somewhere some time. And my writing is very easy to find (same name on AO3, loads of self-promo in this forum...)

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Róisín on September 10, 2021, 01:50:32 AM

Same here. Occasionally a poem will just drop into my mind fully formed, even if I am not trying to use imbas forasnai for something magical. I remember years ago reading a poem ‘The Goat Paths’ by James Stephens, in which he talks about the process of creating poetry from the viewpoint of a poet. The poem ends:
‘I would think until I found
Something I can never find
Something lying on the ground
In the bottom of my mind’.

But mostly for me building a poem is more like building a piece of furniture.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Jitter on September 10, 2021, 02:53:03 AM

Bam! Róisín please proceed to the Celebrations thread!

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: ohnosir on October 29, 2021, 01:58:22 AM

Y'all poets amaze me...it's never been something I can quite grasp! But I very much feel the "external inspiration" you are referring to! Paleontological art I feel like is external to me, since it's all based on my study of all these observations other people did, I just kinda put my own spin on it...and well, like I said with my writing, the characters kinda write it lol. Other stuff I wanna talk about definitely makes it's way into it, but sometimes I feel like I'm being dragged along!

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: crowbarrd on October 29, 2021, 03:08:41 AM

This is such an awesome thread ?? It's incredibly interesting reading everyone's replies here !!

I used to be able to write pretty long poems and the occasional short story (emphasis on used to) and that felt really good, writing them felt like I was expressing my thoughts into something more tangible. I always find it hard to talk about my thoughts in a legible way, like in interviews and presentations, so writing them down really helps. For writing what I really want to do is express in my mind's eye what it's seeing and feeling.
(However, recently it's been really hard for me to write something I find good or interesting, it feels more of me forcing myself to write instead of the words just whooooosh coming out. It's like having a constipation lol)

As a visual artist, inspiration is a big part of my creative process: I would want to draw specific things, people, something based on a piece of writing or a lyric. I can make a list of things I want to draw and just proceed to draw them.
Drawing it out however, is hard to explain, as in Songbird's words, "It's like getting possessed by an idea". Most of my best pieces are created in that way, with a few or a single idea/s in mind. It's sort of like putting your pencil down and furiously scribbling until you've puked out all your thoughts on it. Which is probably also why I hardly manage to make any finished pieces of anything, since that rush would only last me about a day at most.

Repetition is, in a way, the core of how I create; I just keep doing it until I'm satisfied, which makes me rather obsessive sometimes (though I can also be on the other end of the spectrum where I simply give up!) So I might write down a sentence or a few words, draw a small scribble, and some underterminable time later come back to make an iteration of that same piece by building on it or keeping pieces of the original. I suppose it helps retain the spark of inspiration you get when possessed for that short while.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on October 29, 2021, 04:31:39 AM

I have a bunch of messy thoughts on creation acquired in this fandom... Let's start with two.

One, I feel like this fandom has made me a faster writer, which is GREAT. I am referring specifically to the speed with which the inspired ideas get down on paper, and improving that is GREAT. I used to shake over every sentence, and considered 500 words / hour the pinnacle to aspire to. Now my first drafts jump out much faster, and require less hardcore editing than I would have expected. I mean, I still edit a lot, but not much more than I do for prose I wrote slowly. I edit and trim everything I write like crazy. (I think a part of my new speed is how forgiving this fandom feels to me. In my longterm fandom of the Silmarillion, I always felt like I had to justify an interpretation I made with footnotes, ha. It carried over into other writings, but now I am finally free!)

Two, Yoinktober has made me think hard about the inspiration/discipline divide. As I have hinted on the Yoinktober thread, there are days when I feel zero inspiration, even after I figure out an idea. (For me, feeling inspired has an element of 'I can't wait to see how this turns out so I can read it and enjoy it and maybe share!" When I have an idea but no inspiration, it's more like "i can probably make this work, but I doubt I will enjoy reading it, so how can anyone else?") Maybe somewhat relevantly to what crowbarrd said, writing when not inspired is slower and comes with a bit of a constipated feeling. I would love to figure out a way to tell whether this is obvious in the quality finished product! (Most of my longer works have 'inspired' bits linked by 'constipated' bits, and in many cases I can't see the difference on a re-read. But I am of course very biased.)

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Jitter on October 30, 2021, 12:51:53 PM

The description of uninspired writing (creating) as suffering from constipation is a very apt metaphor! I don't get much of it with the fanfic writing, because I just don't write when I don't feel like it. But sometimes stuff for work purposes... it's draining when you have to push out something, construct a report or whatever word by word when the inspiration just isn't there but it has to get done.

I am terribly bad at planning. Even report writing tends more towards "just start writing and it will shape itself". This works for me personally, but I fear it makes me terrible in giving guidance to others. But apparently I make up for it by approachability because my team members like working with me.

YoinkTober is good for me, because I think it's good to learn to do quick things and just let them go. I have posted several I'm not very happy with, and that is absolutely healthful for me to learn to do. I am learning to accept less than perfect from myself (I have no problem with that when it's anyone else's work!) and the supportive environment we have here is a huge help.

Like mentioned above, I hadn't done anything "artistically" (as opposed to for work) creative for many many years before joining this fandom. This is something I am overwhelmingly grateful for! It's given me so much, and especially with the difficult times we are having, it has played a significant role in my mental well-being.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on October 30, 2021, 01:57:41 PM

Jitter, I guess one big difference between us is that, while at this moment I feel like writing almost every day, I find it much harder to feel like writing to a specific prompt. If I waited until I felt inspired I would have left more than half the days empty! As it is, I did a bunch of those 'double prompts'...

I am still wondering whether it's obvious which of my prompt fillers were 'whee inspired' and which were 'slog slog slog must do my duty'. (I guess being dutiful is a much bigger problem for me than perfection, at this point.) Maybe I should turn this around on you and ask you to point me to, say, four of your pieces so I can guess which ones you are / are not happy with. Although I suppose it could be a bit weird if I get it all wrong.

I would be interested in doing this for others, too, along either the perfect/imperfect or inspired/uninspired axis. This whole act of creation is all weird magical stuff.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Róisín on October 31, 2021, 01:06:09 AM

There is a difference between the poem that is born complete and the one that you need to construct phrase by phrase like building something. And of course the one can quite suddenly decide to become the other……..

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on October 31, 2021, 03:38:24 AM

Róisín, do you mean a difference in eventual quality, or in the experience of the creative process?

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Róisín on November 01, 2021, 07:29:12 AM

Can be both. I recently wrote something which had been requested from me for a formal occasion, and was working away on building the phrases suitable for such a poem when inspiration suddenly hit and the work came out much better than I had expected.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Jitter on November 01, 2021, 03:50:00 PM

I sometimes or quite often actually find poetry more a craft than an art :) I mean my own poetry, which consists of the runos in Kalevala meter on the one hand, and of haikus on the other. Especially the Kalevala meter, even if I am inspired it's still more or less a process of putting building blocks together.

I used to do very many haikus (at least one every page), that are on the Disqus comments under the pages in 2019. Maybe I should try and collect those, as they are saved nowhere. Some of them I'm quite proud of, it's not easy to use e.g. "abomination" in a haiku!

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on November 01, 2021, 04:04:03 PM

One thing I am thinking about now is that, for me, inspiration can be present or absent on many levels, from "knowing what I mean to convey" (in terms of plot, mood, meaning, build-up/pay-off...) to "picking the right phrasing". Sometimes both arrive at once, phew. Sometimes I know what I want to say but my language is not cooperating at all. And sometimes I find it easy to write sentences or even paragraphs that feel good, but the overall piece feels pointless and incoherent... (That's when the usual writerly advice of "killing your darlings" comes in handy.)

For a longer piece, the different levels of inspiration can wink in and out of existence at random, so I have to get over little bumps of various types.

(There were only a couple of Yoinktober pieces where I didn't have an overall idea -- when I didn't have one, I generally didn't write at all -- but a lot of them have failed to convey what I wanted. Communication is hard, mrr.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: crowbarrd on November 02, 2021, 07:51:58 PM

About the 'writing constipation' I mentioned in my last post: I've been lacking of story writing inspiration for quite some time now, last I remembered writing something I felt wasn't bad and long enough to be considered a short story was about 3 years ago :'(

I'm trying to rewrite that story to get back into the groove of writing, but even then it's been a bit of an on-and-off project. Writing now seems more a slog than it was last year, for some reason? Which is making me a little sad since it feels like I'm losing my ability to write as well as I could've 3 years ago. There's some ideas I'd like to write into a story but even then with that in mind it's so hard to put into words :( I guess I'll keep pushing forward and maybe it would work out !

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Róisín on November 03, 2021, 01:46:13 AM

Jitter, anent poetry being at least as much craft as art: most poetry-using cultures, especially those that use poetry for magic or historical recording or praise-poems, have a set of established or ritual phrases and descriptions which are combined to make poetry and songs in the formal modes of such things. Think religious liturgy and traditional folk ballads, quite apart from magic.

There are however many examples across a range of cultures and languages where inspiration has infused the formal structure with beauty and power. Think the Tain or the Song of Amergin for the Celtic culture, Shakespeare’s sonnets for the Anglo one. Many others.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on November 03, 2021, 04:21:14 AM

Quote from: crowbarrd on November 02, 2021, 07:51:58 PM

About the 'writing constipation' I mentioned in my last post: I've been lacking of story writing inspiration for quite some time now, last I remembered writing something I felt wasn't bad and long enough to be considered a short story was about 3 years ago :'(

I'm trying to rewrite that story to get back into the groove of writing, but even then it's been a bit of an on-and-off project. Writing now seems more a slog than it was last year, for some reason? Which is making me a little sad since it feels like I'm losing my ability to write as well as I could've 3 years ago. There's some ideas I'd like to write into a story but even then with that in mind it's so hard to put into words :( I guess I'll keep pushing forward and maybe it would work out !

This might not be very encouraging, but, as my AO3 account shows, I wrote nothing between 2018 and 2021. Well, actually, I did write a small drabble in between, but it was a very constipated drabble... And then, in July this year, I got some sort of ssss diarrhea. And this is how it has gone for me throughout my life: patches where I lost the ability or maybe desire to write, followed by fertile patches. And I didn't have to change fandoms each time, or seek new inspiration: I have a story I finished eight years after starting it.

I have no idea how to force the fertile times to start, however. (I think there is something there about feeling a need for a specific story to exist, and the feeling that nobody will write it right but me?)

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: moredhel on November 03, 2021, 05:36:49 AM

Quote from: tehta on November 03, 2021, 04:21:14 AM

This might not be very encouraging, but, as my AO3 account shows, I wrote nothing between 2018 and 2021. Well, actually, I did write a small drabble in between, but it was a very constipated drabble... And then, in July this year, I got some sort of ssss diarrhea.

Something similar happened to me. I did not touch a brush, pencil or charcoal for years (to be honest decades) but since I found this forum I am drawing much more.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on November 03, 2021, 07:19:55 AM

It's been very weird for me! I have never written so much so fast; I am approaching 50k words posted on AO3. (If I post the Yoinktober pieces I like, I will surpass it.)
I even feel some shame over flooding the fandom with my outpourings.

I have also started trying to make art again, but not-ssss themed. I have not done art since high school.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: moredhel on November 03, 2021, 03:01:42 PM

Quote from: tehta on November 03, 2021, 07:19:55 AM

I have also started trying to make art again,

Good. More art makes the world more beautiful.

Quote from: tehta on November 03, 2021, 07:19:55 AM

but not-ssss themed.

I do nearly no ssss themed stuff. This comic has such a unique look I am sure I can not do something like this and everything else feels just wrong.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on November 23, 2021, 05:25:03 AM

So, my fanfic-related creativity seems to have dried up. My last few attempts to write have ended in failure, or rather, struggle. Which might be well be the same as failure? One thing I did recently is edit some of my posted stories (now that I've forgotten them a bit, it's easier for me to do a self-beta) and I really do feel like the pieces where I got stuck, and fought through the block, are worse than the ones that flowed out of my keyboard without any significant issues.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Róisín on November 23, 2021, 06:28:42 AM

A useful technique for when the creativity spring dries up is to set the work aside and turn your attention to writing something totally different. For instance, when the inspiration abandons a poem or story on which I am working, it can help to go away and work on a factual article. Last time that happened to me an hour of work on an article about seed saving and propagation brought the flow of poetry right back, and let me finish a piece of paying work.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: tehta on November 23, 2021, 07:03:08 AM

I don't think that approach works for me, empirically speaking. As pat of my job, I write technical documents, presentations, complex emails etc daily... and they don't trigger inspiration. If anything, they use it up: I was more creative when I was on leave.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Turnstylus on January 03, 2023, 03:49:27 PM

I'm just now discovering this thread – a great topic to discuss, moredhel!

And so many great contributions from others. We have much in common in the creative process.

The American author Stephen King has said a few things about creating, and one of my favorites is basically that the “Muse” is more of a partner than a fairy godmother. The Muse needs to know where you're going to be, and that you'll be working when he gets there, so that the environment is right for him to open up the “bag of magic”. Perhaps Stephen chose to characterize the Muse as a grouchy man because it reflected his experiences with inspiration! :))

The people who see great spectacles in the sky have already made the habit of watching the stars. And so they are present for the meteor showers, eclipses, etc. This was a truer statement when we did not have modern weather services, but you get my point! If we can build the discipline to devote a certain amount of time, and a certain amount of attention to our craft every day, then whenever the Muse descends, we'll be ready.

For me the discipline is not always daily, but I've been doing it long enough that in my mind there is no question that I will make art, good or bad. And I don't feel ready more often then I do, but I begin anyway, feeling like an unqualified amateur almost every time, even though I've been drawing for decades!

There is strength in looking past your feelings of being an imposter and instead thinking, "If I spend this present moment making art, then I am an art-maker, in fact," and now it's a matter of historical record! No one can dispute it, not even myself! ;D

And I believe most (if not all) of us are capable of training our minds to do this - it takes time and persistence, but it can be done.

Title: Re: How do you create?
Post by: Lenny on June 08, 2023, 08:53:44 AM

I've been frustrated lately with finding info on more advanced art critique, and specifically project management. Part of my mostly fruitless search went into tools for project management, and I found some resources that might be useful to others.

My focus for tools was on: Desktop software. Offline software. Works out of the box with no setup. Free and if possible open source. Simple to use. Nice to look at. (I have a ton of experience by now with project planning/management in software, and there's a lot of that out there, but it's a little harder to find things that are designed for the individual instead of a team and that don't require a sign-up of some kind or a lot of setup.)

sleek, a ToDo app. (https://sourceforge.net/projects/sleek/) Free, open source, has a nicely designed UI, can add dates to tasks, can group tasks by project.

Xmind, a mindmapping app. (https://xmind.app/download/) Free version has everything you need. Facilitates braindumping like nothing else. Has loads of different kinds of maps you can switch things to, currently using this for project mapping and plot mapping, meaning to use it for top level script planning, too. Really smooth UI and preset themes.

My method for the two, and why I chose them, is to use the mindmap tool for large project structure and mapping out global things, which can then be broken down into small tasks into the todo tool. Can combine with a calendar if you so choose (for me I'd much rather work with time blocks and a current todo list that I can just pick whatever from or ignore, so I don't feel locked in to anything - it's much more of a tracking system than anything else).

I usually work pretty freeform since yeah, stuff always has structure, but that structure just needs to be in your head. Howeverrrrr, that only works for projects that are extremely freeform (doesn't matter what the end result is etc.), or extremely small (one piece) with techniques you know how to do or are comfortable freestyling.

With larger projects, or if you need to fit in projects with working full-time and other things in your life, freeform method ends up as unfinished projects half the time at least, in my experience. So yeah. Project management.

...overall I kind of suspect I'm falling in-between the professional artist and hobby artist cracks in regards to what information I need. And usually with professional artist resources (and to some extent hobby artist, too!) you'll have contacts or groups or facilities of some kind. What with the unintended 8 years of survival strats all of that's just... gone for me (people moved on, websites taken down, moved to gated communities), so I'll have to start up from scratch.

The Stand Still, Stay Silent Fan-Forum

Creative Corner => Academy Board => Topic started by: moredhel on April 04, 2021, 01:31:35 PM