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Icelandic Learning Thread
Róisín:
Not Icelandic! As I understand, a thole or tholepin is a sort of a spike or long nail-like thing, similar to a trenail, specifically used in the building of wooden ships. Possibly the reference to wood is to Ask and Embla, the trees who were turned into the first humans to replace the humans of the old pre-apocalyptic world? Or could it be a reference to Mimir's Well, which stands among the roots of Yggdrasil, the World Tree? Fascinating poem!
Fauna:
--- Quote from: Róisín on July 08, 2018, 09:54:14 AM ---Not Icelandic! As I understand, a thole or tholepin is a sort of a spike or long nail-like thing, similar to a trenail, specifically used in the building of wooden ships. Possibly the reference to wood is to Ask and Embla, the trees who were turned into the first humans to replace the humans of the old pre-apocalyptic world? Or could it be a reference to Mimir's Well, which stands among the roots of Yggdrasil, the World Tree? Fascinating poem!
--- End quote ---
Ask and Embla were not trees in the Voluspá version of the creation myth, that's another saga. Their bodies were created by the dwarves (in turn created by the aesir) and then given soul by the gods, so it's likely not a reference to trees in that way.
Considering the context of the 20'th verse (especially verse 19 and both these verses coming right after the creation of Ask and Embla) I'm leaning towards verse 19 and 20 being a kenning about procreation where the well of urd = the womb and Yggdrasil = male sexual organ. The word 'thole' meaning a pole would certainly fit that.
Thanks!
Róisín:
Dunno, that's possible. The 'lingam and yoni', 'cup and sword' style of symbolism of procreation is widespread through many cultures.
Fauna:
--- Quote from: Róisín on July 10, 2018, 11:53:56 AM ---Dunno, that's possible. The 'lingam and yoni', 'cup and sword' style of symbolism of procreation is widespread through many cultures.
--- End quote ---
I don't know anything about those, but there's some stuff backing it up here.
Verse 19 and 20, my translation:
Ash/Ask I know standing*
Named Slippery One**
Tall and covered with white clay***
From there comes the dew
That falls in valleys
Evergreen
Over the source of fate.
(*The word for 'standing' is standa. Stånda is the word used in modern Swedish for the erection of a penis. Could be either or, but there are other words for standing that could've been used but weren't.
** Yggdrasil = ON for Odins horse. This tends to be translated as 'gallows' because Odin hung on the tree, but it could also be Sleipnir, which means 'slippery one'.
*** The word used is 'auri', which means something like wet/damp clay, sand or soil.
As for the white dew that falls in valleys I'll leave to your imagination, dear reader.)
From there comes three maidens
Much knowing
Three from the hall under the pole
Fate is the first,
The other is Being
Cutting in boards
Debt/future is the third.
They laid laws,
They selected life,
All children
were given their fates.
It's a riddle so I could be wrong and the answer might be something entirely difference in the context of that culture, but it wouldn't be that far of a stretch. Especially considering these two poems came right after the poems describing the creation of Ask and Embla by the dwarves, who seem to represent the different aspects/limitations of humanity if this translation is to be believed: http://freya.theladyofthelabyrinth.com/?page_id=21
If so, this would simply be the continuation of humanity. In the next verse, there are new names of what I presume are humans around.)
Either way, I've got my help so it's a bit of a case closed. I'd love to keep discussing old norse poetry but it should probably go in the language boards.
FireNope:
Hi, not that I'm about to try learning Icelandic, but I do have a few questions I hope fit in there :
Minna called Icelandic mages Seiðkarl and Seiðkona. There was also the word Seiður thrown in the mix, which I thought was a neutral-plural when speaking about several mages of indefinite or mixed gender.
Seems like it's not the case.
So : I'd like to know what is the difference between the tree above ( Is Seiður a neutral singular ?) and what are their plural ?
(from the first post in this thread there are two groups of words finishing in -ur, and they have different plural : -ir or -ar.)
Same with Galdrastafur ?
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