The Stand Still, Stay Silent Fan-Forum

Worlds and Stories => Worlds & Stories Discussion Board => Topic started by: Jitter on November 02, 2021, 01:11:32 PM

Title: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 02, 2021, 01:11:32 PM
Here is the thread for discussing White Noise (the one by Adrien Lee - there is another webcomic with the same name) which you can read here: http://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/1-0 (this links to page 1).

This thread will contain spoilers up to whichever is the latest page at each time.

White Noise was the Comic of the Month for October 2021, recommended by @Keep Looking here: https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=1237.60

White Noise has been running since 2011 (yes, a full decade!) and updates pretty regularly on Sundays. There are pre-determined breaks mainly between chapters. The first long arc is apparently coming to its conclusion, but the author has further stories planned so not to worry (too much).

Oh btw do read the text under the comic page! It contains a description, originally intended for screen reading technology for the vision impaired but it adds a lot even when you can see the comic.

There are several queer characters, including trans folks in various stages of their journey. Sex is openly implied but no explicitly shown. Being trans and/or queer are important themes in the story and drive the plot on occasion, but I would call it more of a story (adventure/quest/road movie/??) starring queer characters rather than being mainly about queerness. I’m vanilla to boot and I have enjoyed the story immensely. It also presents profound thoughts about identity and factors influencing who we are. Also magic! Monsters! Fighting! Bravery! Friendship! Love! Body positivity!

I will now proceed to swoon over because of certain events in this and the previous chapter.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on November 02, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
I will now proceed to swoon over because of certain events in this and the previous chapter.

Ohhhhh yeah, the last few chapters have been very swoon-worthy. Both because of the lovely romances and friendships that are building, but also because it feels like we're being balanced on a knife's edge as to how and when all the missed connections will be put together. I'm nearly ready to faint with all the will-they won't-they put-the-pieces-together!

Hawk and Mari's building relationship has been really lovely, especially as you can see how much they both needed a source of care and affection in their lives. And Hawk deserves nice things after all he's been through. Although the complications thrown in by Mari's status are definitely going to throw some sticks in the works - I'm excited and pretty nervous to see how it turns out.

But Vlad. Vlad who sits in the centre of a big web of connections yet hasn't managed to quite fill in the missing pieces. It almost makes me want to scream. I do have to say, though, I love how the two originally separate storylines are getting increasingly tangled together.

I'm also excited to see how the radio plot will play in with everything else that's happening, as it's connecting characters across the different worlds and storylines. It really does feel like everything is coming together.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Róisín on November 03, 2021, 12:55:53 AM
I have started reading this - don’t have much time and am doing so in five minute rest breaks between tasks so it will take me awhile. Fortunately I read fast! I have reached the point in the tale where Hawk and Teigh are setting out north on their journey to find Hawk’s sister. I will be very interested to find out what is going on with Liya and Helygen. A good recommendation.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 03, 2021, 01:13:12 PM
Roisin, I imagine you will in particular like Helly :) You probably already noticed, but the people that are called "spirits" here are not actually spirits but the fairly human-like inhabitants of the other main world of the story, Aetheri, where Liya now is. Many (most?) of the spirits have some magic, but they are corporeal people.

Keep, YES. I have in particular loved how Mari's way of appreciating Hawk and taking it for granted that Hawk is good in many things has helped Hawk see himself differently. This is one of the key messages about identity in my view. The gender identities of many of the characters is of course important, and I like the various ways it's been considered and the different stages and approaches of the various characters. But it's not the only type of identity growth in the story at all. Liya is finding her path, but even more so with Hawk.

As for Mari's status...

Spoiler: show
that is the one thing I'm not very happy about. It's understandable how he wants to be considered just him but still it's wrong that Hawk doesn't know. Firstly, anyone involved with the cynn may be in danger. There have been attempts on his life. He's counting on nobody knowing about his forays to Enodia, but someone can and eventually will recognise him (already did but luckily that was a friend).

Secondly and perhaps more importantly. Consent is described very beautifully between them, especially in the scene where they finally get physical. But is it really consent on Hawk's side, when he doesn't know who he is with? Not entirely clear. 
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on November 04, 2021, 03:23:25 AM
As for Mari's status...

Spoiler: show
that is the one thing I'm not very happy about. It's understandable how he wants to be considered just him but still it's wrong that Hawk doesn't know. Firstly, anyone involved with the cynn may be in danger. There have been attempts on his life. He's counting on nobody knowing about his forays to Enodia, but someone can and eventually will recognise him (already did but luckily that was a friend).

Secondly and perhaps more importantly. Consent is described very beautifully between them, especially in the scene where they finally get physical. But is it really consent on Hawk's side, when he doesn't know who he is with? Not entirely clear. 


Spoiler: show
Yeah, that's one thing that I'm concerned about too! I mean, I understand why he hasn't told Hawk, but I'm bracing myself for when the news gets out. And yeah, like - not only does Hawk deserve to know at this point of their relationship, given how close they are, but also there's a lot of potential for interesting diplomatic incidents if Mari gets recognised being all romantic with Hawk with the wrong kind of people (aka the extremely anti-immigrant anti-mixed species relationship traditionalist Aetherians that control, like, most of the assembly).

I do appreciate the character aspect of Mari not telling Hawk - in that this character who's generally seen as both a good ruler and just a pretty decent and kind person all-round is making some really stupid decisions - I do think it adds depth and complexity to his character? But it's also a really, really stupid and somewhat reckless decision.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 04, 2021, 05:58:09 AM
Still about Mari

Spoiler: show
Yeah, that's one thing that I'm concerned about too! I mean, I understand why he hasn't told Hawk, but I'm bracing myself for when the news gets out. And yeah, like - not only does Hawk deserve to know at this point of their relationship, given how close they are, but also there's a lot of potential for interesting diplomatic incidents if Mari gets recognised being all romantic with Hawk with the wrong kind of people (aka the extremely anti-immigrant anti-mixed species relationship traditionalist Aetherians that control, like, most of the assembly).

I do appreciate the character aspect of Mari not telling Hawk - in that this character who's generally seen as both a good ruler and just a pretty decent and kind person all-round is making some really stupid decisions - I do think it adds depth and complexity to his character? But it's also a really, really stupid and somewhat reckless decision.


Spoiler: show
I agree with you that it adds an interesting nuance on him as a person. Like you said, he’s such a decent person and pretty much perfect in many aspects. Perhaps his greatest flaw is pushing himself too muc. Especially with that in mind, indulging in the relationship with Hawk as a person is even more understandable. It’s the one thing he does for himself, his only haven of rest and recuperation.

We the readers have been shown enough of Hawk’s character to be fairly certain he would see through the  whole Cynn thing and decide to be with Mari nevertheless, but Mari doesn’t have the same certainty especially in the beginning of the relationship. And he is of course encumbered by a lifetime of always being first and foremost the (current or future) Cynn. So I have no trouble understanding why he would do this.

And yet. Where is the line? What if everything else was the same, except that Liya had died the very beginning? Not by direct order by the Cynn, but as collateral damage in a mission sent by him? Or, what if it had happened because he had given orders that stopping the slavers is always a priority and if some offworlders die in the process, it is a an acceptable loss? Or, that he had sent the Order to get more healers to the palace?

He didn’t, but each of the cases would mean the situation is less forgivable than now (actually now there is nothing to forgive because no bad deed was done. The line has to be somewhere.

I am reminded of the horrible situation in the UK where undercover police officers had been sent to live with activists (“hippies”) to gather intelligence from them, and they lived there for years and formed relationships. At least one of them became a father of a child of one of the activists, all the time under false pretenses. Some of them were convicted of rape, and rightly so, as the relationships would not have happened if the women had known they were informants.

So, is Hawk being in a non-consensual relationship? It’s not the same thing of course because Mari is not hiding his identity for a reason that is against Hawk or means to harm him in any way. Yet if there is any reason to think Hawk might choose to not be the Cynn’s boyfriend if he knew, then it’s glaringly obvious his consent isn’t 100% clear.

Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 14, 2021, 08:58:30 PM
Oh help I'm caught up. Bah.

Spoiler: show
And they still haven't all met back up again. Are they going to wind up doing so in the middle of a riot brought on by this plan? And get yanked apart again just as fast in the chaos?



And as to the consensuality or otherwise of the relationship --

Spoiler: show
This is really bad. Hawk's in love and Numair knows it; this isn't only sex. Not telling Hawk who Numair is is cruel. It's a betrayal.

-- but Numair's got nobody, nobody at all, who can see him without the skin of the Cynn. And he needs that so badly. This is a mess.

Numair at least seems to know that it's a mess.


And somewhat related:

Spoiler: show
Is it just me, or is Numair/Mari looking more female at the beginning of chapter 12? maybe in response to Hawk, like somebody coming into kemmer?

Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 21, 2021, 06:06:16 PM
Page, finally!

This is building up quite nicely to Something Really Happening Soon --
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on November 22, 2021, 02:53:37 AM
Page, finally!

This is building up quite nicely to Something Really Happening Soon --

(Just checked the new page) Ooooooooohhhhhhhh yeah this is building up.

I love how it shows the news being spread around across the different everyday conversations, I think that's a really cool way of showing the general attitudes of different people and the potential for people to be quite receptive - it really indicates that something's gonna go down if the broadcast goes ahead.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 22, 2021, 03:50:25 AM
I like it too, it’s very well depicted and believable.

But, I’m very worried about Numair’s safety. The “that ship has sailed” thing reeks of foreshadowing, and I really don’t think he’s physically in good enough shape to be able to withstand a major attack. Maybe he’d better take a bodyguard and a healer along when he goes in to deliver his speech?

Although it would be quite a lot for poor Hawk to deal with if he were to simultaneously find out who Mari is and that Liya is alive. On the other hand I think it would be easier if he found out about Liya first and Mari second, but I don’t see how this could happen.

All in all the “not quite meeting” is getting a bit convoluted. Given how easy it seems to be to travel between the worlds, it would seem likely there would be a postal service, and if so, would it be too much to ask for Felix and co to send a postcard to Teige and Parker? The tanuki girl (sorry I forgot her name) at least knows how close friends Hawk and Teige are / were and that Teige would very much like to know Hawk is alive and out of the Trade.

Of course Vlad is right in the middle of it all, but even if he never mentions names of either his housemate or his boyfriend (which sort of makes sense with him being a covert vigilante), there are other ways for the penny to drop!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on November 22, 2021, 07:57:53 AM
All in all the “not quite meeting” is getting a bit convoluted. Given how easy it seems to be to travel between the worlds, it would seem likely there would be a postal service, and if so, would it be too much to ask for Felix and co to send a postcard to Teige and Parker? The tanuki girl (sorry I forgot her name) at least knows how close friends Hawk and Teige are / were and that Teige would very much like to know Hawk is alive and out of the Trade.

Yeah, I always do wonder why the group of ex-refugees in Enodia, once they discovered that Hawk was alive and safe, didn't contact Teige and the others in Aetheri to let them know Hawk wasn't, y'know, captured or dead anymore. It seems like there'd be some kind of accessible way of making contact, and since that group all went through similar traumas and it's fairly clear that Hawk's important to the Aetheri crew it seems illogical that nobody would reach out.

And yeah, I'm also very worried for Mari's safety. I feel like many of his actions these last two chapters have been rather reckless or ill-considered (not telling Hawk about who he is, placing himself so centrally in the radio plot, just going out to Enodia completely alone in the first place (surely he could befriend some kind of guard, or at least just let somebody know that he's gone to Enodia but will be back by the evening and if not then please seek help - y'know, general safety protocol)). He seems really resistant to asking for help, and I feel like we're definitely coming up to a point where there may be consequences for this - I'm just hoping any consequences won't be too tragic.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 28, 2021, 05:19:52 PM
Hi Liya!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 12, 2021, 03:44:21 PM
This had better be a dream. -- the comments seem to think so.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 12, 2021, 04:53:12 PM
Definitely! At least he has the previous hair and not his current... I forget the name of his current hairstyle, with hair only in the middle of the head. Or, upon closer inspection, he has short dark hair on the sides and longer white hair in the middle (see e.g. p 12-1).

I was hoping to see Hawk, yes, but I meant in happy circumstances!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 12, 2021, 06:37:27 PM
True. Even presuming that it's a dream: having dreams like that is certainly not happy.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 13, 2021, 06:39:03 AM
Yeah, he’s certainly one badly traumatized kid!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on December 13, 2021, 09:46:06 AM
I was just gonna say, I really hope this is a dream. It'd be pretty weird to transition to this kind of scene with no prior warning otherwise, definitely not the style of the author. But yeah, poor guy either way.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 19, 2021, 04:29:54 PM
Page --

and OK, definitely a dream. (If still in doubt, check the text below the comic.)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 19, 2021, 06:40:25 PM
Whew on that. But I feel so sorry for the poor boy! Don’t they have any mental health support for those rescued from the trade? At least he’s getting hugs!

But all this makes me wonder how capable he is of coping with the inevitable Mari / Cynn situation.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 19, 2021, 07:27:02 PM
Maybe he's having those dreams despite getting mental health support. Even good treatment, at least by current standards, isn't guaranteed to fix everything; let alone to do so in short order.

I really hope he is getting such treatment, though. It might at least help.

I think actually maybe it's good to show things like this? All too often, in comics and even in other fiction, people are shown as going through horrendous experiences and then, as soon as that bit of the story is over, it's supposed to be over. Getting hit on the head and knocked out is often shown as something that people recover from totally and more or less instantly, and mental trauma is often dealt with the same way.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 20, 2021, 04:29:28 AM
You are right, it is important that the trauma is not brushed off! It would be great if he were shown to be getting help too, too often counseling etc is also considered as a mark of weakness.

You are also right about violence in general being shown as no-biggie. Hawk at leas was flightless for a considerable amount of time when his feathers were growing back. But the sort of treatment we are shown on this page, could and would have caused his smaller wingbones to break as well.

I think in much of fiction, people both recuperate and die too easily. It’s not easy to stab or shoot a person to their immediate death with one hit only. On the other hand, even “just a fleshwound” takes weeks to heal, if it ever does, and can well be lethal due to infection especially in conditions like Hawk’s cell or outcountry in SSSS.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Róisín on December 20, 2021, 02:56:08 PM
 Yeah, that is something I find annoying, how the aftereffects of wounds and trauma are minimalised in fiction. Having survived both in the course of a long and sometimes far too adventurous real life, and known enough other people who have done so, I can tell you that it isn’t always easy. Having helped to nurse my father, who had been an army medic in the Pacific War part of WW2, through his long and slow dying after he had been a prisoner of war, an experience during which he was starved, tortured and suffered several nasty tropical diseases as well as beri beri, I can tell you that some damage never heals.

Yet I have also seen people who continued to live, and in some cases even to live well, after terrible experiences and injuries that might have been expected to kill them.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on January 02, 2022, 07:44:15 PM
Are they indoors or outdoors? Is Numair dreaming the rain and the outside scene, and if so is Hawk also in the dream, or is only Numair in the rain?

I am confused.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on January 03, 2022, 08:09:04 AM
The grass plain and the weather phenomenons are Numair’s truthseer ability. He sees / hears / feels things about people, which somehow represent the person and he person’s feelings. It also indicates if the person is lying.

In case of Hawk the effect seems to be more intense than with most people. We’ve seen things such as marbles dropping out of nowhere or sparkles of light, but nothing shown in the comic comes close to the way Numair was “transported” into the plain, which is Hawk, when they first met. Usually the weather is good there but he dark clouds linger on the horizon. Now the storm tells Numair (and us) how distraught Hawk is.

I’ll try and find some of the earlier pages about this. It is indeed confusing at times, what with the way Thepooka writes the description of these experiences with no indication that the phenomena are only visible to Numair.

I found it, Chapter 9 has their meeting. First when Hawk steps between Numair and his attackers, and again when Numair wakes up in Hawk’s room after not having died. In the latter scene he also explains it.

I am sure there is also a scene where the weather is good, the ones I found have the storm boiling as Hawk is upset or nervous.

11-33 onwards is a beautiful scene where they talk about it. It’s not necessarily an ominous storm.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on January 03, 2022, 07:10:29 PM
Ah. Thanks. I binged through a lot of that comic too fast, I missed things the first time through.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on January 04, 2022, 07:45:32 AM
Btw I love this page. Firstly it is sweet to see the cuddle, and especially how Hawk is beings held by Numair despite being approximately five times bigger :) Their position looks very soothing, and the way Numair “shields” Hawk from the “rain” tells volumes about the feelings in the moment.

I also find it great storytelling concerning trauma and dealing with it. Too many people try to cope alone, like Hawk says he doesn’t want to talk about it to “not give room to it”. This is probably a response familiar to many, either by their own or a another person’s experience, or both. Very relatable. And then there is Numair, gently reminding him that it is not an answer on the long run. He is helping Hawk towards dealing with the trauma, but not forcing or hurrying. Just reminding that something should be done, that he’s available, or if Hawk prefers to talk with someone else, that is also a possibility.

Everything is wonderful except the deceit. Hawk needs to know! The radio stunt will likely also put Numair in danger, and by extension also Hawk.

Furthermore the bad guys are going to do something, so Hawk’s trauma is about to fly into his face. I very much hope all of this,p won’t go down simultaneously, but I fear it will.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on January 05, 2022, 07:21:29 AM
Furthermore the bad guys are going to do something, so Hawk’s trauma is about to fly into his face. I very much hope all of this,p won’t go down simultaneously, but I fear it will.

Alas, plot often does tend to work in such ways. But I agree - it's a lovely page!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on February 20, 2022, 05:43:22 PM
This must be it! Surely! Thepooka wouldn’t be so cruel as to have Numair not say anything. Right?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on February 20, 2022, 07:01:54 PM
Whoop!

He had better say something.

-- but it's going to blow his secret. Liya knows him as the Cynn.

And she's walking out the door. Is he going to react fast enough to stop her? If he hesitates, will it be on purpose, or from shock?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on February 21, 2022, 09:53:25 AM
Oh GOD I hope he says something (this reminded me to check the page, I've been real busy today). I swear, my heart just about left my chest with that last panel.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on February 21, 2022, 11:19:39 AM
I think it isn't only that he's seeing the resemblance as anyone might who thinks that they look alike. I think he's also "seeing" with his additional ability; which I would expect to mean that he knows for sure there's some connection, not just a possible coincidence of appearance.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on February 23, 2022, 03:57:10 PM
It’s understandable if Numair needs to take a moment to consider what to do with this information, but seriously he can’t refrain from telling them. If he did, he wouldn’t be the good person we have come to see him as.

Hiding his true identity from Hawk is bad, but somehow understandable, especially if read as “I’ll absolutely tell him soon, I just need to have this for a little longer”. Not letting the siblings know about each other would be selfish and cruel. He knows how Hawk suffers from the trauma of losing his family (the nightmare we saw was about the Trade but Numair probably knows something about his other nightmares too with his Seeing) and that Liya thinks she’s lost her family although she seems to be coping reasonably well. I don’t think Numair is selfish and cruel. At least I hope he’s not, even though real people have many different facets to them.

However, as the broadcast is right around the corner (this same night? The “bird” is up) he may choose to not tell until after the big event. Or may even be unable to reach Hawk before it. I don’t remember right now, can they call from world to world or would he have to go to Ardh to speak to Hawk. So, perhaps it all comes to light via some dramatic circumstances (see chapter cover) because of the timing. But he can’t just decide not to say anything to protect his “cover”.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on February 24, 2022, 04:05:26 AM
It’s understandable if Numair needs to take a moment to consider what to do with this information, but seriously he can’t refrain from telling them. If he did, he wouldn’t be the good person we have come to see him as.

Hiding his true identity from Hawk is bad, but somehow understandable, especially if read as “I’ll absolutely tell him soon, I just need to have this for a little longer”. Not letting the siblings know about each other would be selfish and cruel. He knows how Hawk suffers from the trauma of losing his family (the nightmare we saw was about the Trade but Numair probably knows something about his other nightmares too with his Seeing) and that Liya thinks she’s lost her family although she seems to be coping reasonably well. I don’t think Numair is selfish and cruel. At least I hope he’s not, even though real people have many different facets to them.

However, as the broadcast is right around the corner (this same night? The “bird” is up) he may choose to not tell until after the big event. Or may even be unable to reach Hawk before it. I don’t remember right now, can they call from world to world or would he have to go to Ardh to speak to Hawk. So, perhaps it all comes to light via some dramatic circumstances (see chapter cover) because of the timing. But he can’t just decide not to say anything to protect his “cover”.

I absolutely agree. I think that, while flawed, Numair has been consistently written as a character who deeply, genuinely cares about other people. I hope that the potential of him hiding this discovery from Hawk is out of character! However, I do agree that with Numair's responsibilities as the Cynn and also to the broadcast, he might not be able to get to Hawk immediately, and that may throw some trouble in the mix.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on February 24, 2022, 12:40:12 PM
He can get to Liya immediately, though. Is he going to do that?

Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on February 28, 2022, 04:47:02 PM
Oh wow does the thick plotten! Note that this is a two-page update!

Spoiler: show
No wonder Numair struggled to put two and two together, if and when the photo in the report showed Hawk actually clearly dead! Even though Hawk (luckily!) has already told him of his encounters with the Death Owl, it must be quite a shock for poor Mari to see his loved one dead. No wonder he looks so shaken.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Gwenno on February 28, 2022, 06:13:59 PM
Well, that was a doozy of a double update! There had been so many close calls over the years and they came to nothing and now *finally*, there's a person who knows both of them, knows who they are to each other AND doesn't think that one of them is currently dead (what Mari's response to the report will be, however, I suppose we'll just have to see).

Now I'm just hoping that nothing goes horribly wrong during the broadcast  O_O Hawk and Liya have been apart for over ten years now for the readers, so just let them hug, please!!!!!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on February 28, 2022, 06:26:02 PM
It only just now occurred to me that Numair himself told Liya her brothers are dead, via showing her the report. Before that Liya only knew Hawk was missing and probably feared for him, but she didn’t know for a “fact” that he was dead.

Well, not “fact” but fact, apparently he really was dead for a bit. Scary stuff for all of them, I’m sure.

Also I fear something will go much wrongly. The chapter cover looks like Hawk is bursting into a scene of an emergency. Is he flying unauthorized into the portal at the between worlds building? Or can he cross on his own? Or is it just embellished a bit? Still, it doesn’t look like a controlled arrival.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 06, 2022, 07:29:07 PM
I do hope that's Numair on the phone --

and is Teige going to overhear familiar names?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 07, 2022, 04:00:05 AM
If it’s just the du cuppra calling Vlad to give a status report, I will lose some hair to frustration-induced pulling!  :reynir:
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 13, 2022, 06:02:24 PM
Thorny, you are a truthseer!

I’m so happy!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 13, 2022, 08:37:02 PM
Here we go here we go here we go -- finally --

The look on Teige's face!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 14, 2022, 02:42:06 PM
Teige goes completely blank, and Parker has to kick him back to action. After which there will be questions. Very many questions.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 20, 2022, 04:01:30 PM
Page page page page page --

telephones work!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 20, 2022, 04:39:37 PM
In a surprise move, Vlad takes a shorcut through the questions and calls the man himself.

All goodness! Hawk stills doesn’t know Teige’s there too.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on March 21, 2022, 10:43:19 PM
Yes! The first group of people are re-united! All hail the humble telephone!

All goodness! Hawk stills doesn’t know Teige’s there too.

But Hawk knows that Teige is still alive - the important thing is that Teige now knows that Hawk's alive and okay. Hopefully they'll be able to talk next panel.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 22, 2022, 12:58:39 PM
Seriously it’s a bit weird that the part of their group who remained in Ardh and met Hawk earlier (the doctor guy etc) never talk to Parker and Teige, or at least never mentioned that Hawk is alive. Maybe cross-world phones are extremely rare.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 22, 2022, 02:32:23 PM
Hawk knows that Teige is still alive - the important thing is that Teige now knows that Hawk's alive and okay. Hopefully they'll be able to talk next panel.

I'd forgotten that Hawk knows Teige is alive, or else missed that part -- but, given that, why hasn't Hawk tried to contact Teige? Cross-world contact may be difficult, but it's obviously possible -- not only in that phones appear to work, but also in that people move from one to the other.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 22, 2022, 03:09:17 PM
Hawk doesn’t know where Teige is, but he knew Teige escaped with the others when Hawk was captured. And he knew Teige was planning to go to Aetheri to enlist. So he knows Teige is presumably alive, whereas from Teige’s perspective Hawk has been presumably dead or lost, or at the very least, MIA.

And again the doctor guy and others must have told Hawk that Parker and Teige went over to Aetheri and were alive at that time at least.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 28, 2022, 03:44:23 PM
Page, yesterday, how did I forget that?


So that's why Hawk didn't. But why didn't Abi?

And I am hoping very hard that next Sunday's page doesn't shift scenes --
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 28, 2022, 03:56:36 PM
Dammit Abi! Why didn’t you!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on April 03, 2022, 03:16:38 PM
Not just one glorious page, but two!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 03, 2022, 03:33:18 PM
I was just coming here to post PAGE PAGE PAGE PAGE PAGES --

(hope Hawk's not having a heart attack! but I don't think that's where this would be going.)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on April 03, 2022, 06:23:23 PM
Yeah, the text description only says he’s heart is beating faster, which is very understandable, but in the picture it’s so prominent that I was a bit worried too. Hopefully it’s just the glass that is destroyed by the news (I thought, when he picked it up, that the glass is doomed, and it was).
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on April 04, 2022, 05:26:32 AM
Oh Hawk...

My god the author's done an amazing job at bringing across the gravity and emotional weight of this scene. My heart was really in my chest for Hawk, just, like - you can see everything this means for him. And I feel like it's especially important given that practically the whole story has been building up to this scene.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 10, 2022, 03:47:41 PM
Page --

yeah, how are you going to answer that? (Bearing in mind that Hawk's bound to find out pretty quick once he's in Escalus, even if he's not warned before.)

Not that we'll find out this week. Mow!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on April 11, 2022, 05:24:11 AM
Oh boy oh no oh boy this is gonna get.

Mari. Mari you could've solved this problem much, much earlier through the magical power of "communication"
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on April 17, 2022, 08:29:17 PM
“Tomorrow we’ll fix this” I certainly hope so Vlad, I do!

But, the bad boys are in town… and now you’ve gone and jinxed it! Why you this, Vlad?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on April 17, 2022, 10:26:05 PM
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh

This is my reaction to waiting in anticipation for the next pages to drop. Are we going to get an all-characters-in showdown with the slavers? Will Mari finally tell Hawk the truth? Will the broadcast be successful? All these answers will be drip-fed to us week by week.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 18, 2022, 10:11:42 AM
Yeah, there's another shoe coming, Hawk --

and I really hope you don't first see it in the middle of a battle.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on May 01, 2022, 06:14:44 PM
And here we are, two weeks later, and those were both good pages but I'm still waiting for that shoe --
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on May 08, 2022, 06:29:38 PM
Well, something's progressing, anyway; if not what I was waiting for.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on May 09, 2022, 03:31:12 PM
It’s sweetness that is progressing!

Now, along with all this sweetness, she could have told her. But, alas, that is not how we roll.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on May 29, 2022, 05:54:29 PM
I can't even find it in me to be grumbly about the digression. This is too good.

Read the comments.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 05, 2022, 10:53:15 PM
Now this I can feel grumbly about!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 06, 2022, 03:56:27 PM
Indeed!

(https://imgur.com/QslInpr.png)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 12, 2022, 10:42:11 PM
Yikes!

At least he's about to not be alone in this.

But I sure hope he manages to land on top.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on June 13, 2022, 04:17:50 AM
Is this going to turn into a final whole-group battle scene?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: JoB on June 13, 2022, 05:07:40 AM
Is this going to turn into a final whole-group battle scene?
Whole which group? I think it's still too early to assume that Noodle is acting solo here, rather than the entire slavers group have come for a loose end.

If he's solo, the first order of business would be to bring him / the fight down to surface level. Which seems to work out nicely on its own for the moment ...
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 13, 2022, 02:18:36 PM
Ooh Numair’s binoculars!

Other than that,

(https://imgur.com/QslInpr.png) (https://imgur.com/QslInpr.png)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 13, 2022, 05:20:19 PM
Jitter, I think that's just about what Numair said.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 14, 2022, 06:54:16 AM
I think so too! Let’s hope Hawk can break the fall and not the other way around. I don’t want to see a three-kitty page!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 19, 2022, 10:07:17 PM
I'm not sure if this is a three-(or more)-kitty page. I'm not at all sure I understand what just happened.

But something certainly just happened. And it's a doozy of a page.

-- next page might be a three-kitty page for Hawk's attackers, if what I think might have just happened is right.


I think it's still too early to assume that Noodle is acting solo here, rather than the entire slavers group have come for a loose end.

JoB, I think you called that one.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 20, 2022, 03:48:09 AM
I would have no idea what happened without the description text. With it, I’m hoping that Hawk died in the crash, decided not to, and next there will be a Reckoning. Lots of reckoning.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 20, 2022, 08:59:12 AM
Even with the description text, I'm still not sure; but I think you might be right. And I think that in surviving damage that momentarily killed him, Hawk may have transitioned into a more powerful form.

-- the relationship with Numair might not have a power imbalance after all?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 26, 2022, 04:49:51 PM
Reviewing last week's page before reading this week's, I see something I missed the first time. At least I think I do, if I'm not just imagining it.

What I'm seeing is, in the sequence after Hawk goes through the barrier, two overlapping Hawks: one in white, at first appearing limp; the other multicolor, expanding out from the white one at first, and with a huge white-outlined head gradually appearing from it. As it expands, the white form starts to expand within it. Then the two reach their widest extension together; then the white form starts to fold in, then the multicolor form follows it, the multicolor form enclosing and pulling in and then disappearing into the white form.

On to today's page: note in the print description "A strange pale noise ran from his eyes". Did we just find out why the name White Noise? I'd assumed the title referred to the radio Hawk always keeps on, even when it's playing only static; and have been wondering whether there'll be at some point some explanation for that.

And does anyone remember on what pages the earlier discussion/explanation of Reifa was?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 26, 2022, 05:12:04 PM
I don’t remember where the Reifa discussion was, but I do remember there was some noise also when Hawk refused to let Teige die. And in some other significant moments.

I wonder if Yoshi will find out that necessity will be he final factor in her learning to shapeshift at will. She has the training, and the ring to focus on, and her body dysphoria is already improving, so maybe?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Gwenno on June 27, 2022, 06:03:58 PM

I wonder if Yoshi will find out that necessity will be the final factor in her learning to shapeshift at will. She has the training, and the ring to focus on, and her body dysphoria is already improving, so maybe?

I hadn't considered that! That would be an amazing way for her to start shapeshifting at will  ;D Looking back at the title page for chapter 12 (https://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/12-0), there are hints that you may be right - I didn't notice the leaking bits of darkness around Yoshi's hair when I originally saw it, but it's clear when looking back at it now  ;)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 27, 2022, 06:22:37 PM
Oh, right, I did see those but didn’t remember. I was just thinking how she was just given the ring to help, and how it would be highly useful. Although, she’s a stablehand and probably packs a considerable punch just in her human form too.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on June 27, 2022, 11:07:28 PM
Oh, right, I did see those but didn’t remember. I was just thinking how she was just given the ring to help, and how it would be highly useful. Although, she’s a stablehand and probably packs a considerable punch just in her human form too.

Also she can breathe fire. I feel like it's fairly important to remember that she can, in fact, breathe fire. However if she does shapeshift that would be pretty cool!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 28, 2022, 05:54:50 AM
Can she breathe fire while in human form? This I have completely forgotten. And as you say, it’s important to keep such things in mind!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on July 04, 2022, 02:42:38 PM
Yoshi to the rescue! Not to mention Vlad and his Sharp Object.

In case someone else is thinking about where the scene where Aries is first seen, it’s the start of chapter 7. Page 7.14 is particularly interesting!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on July 04, 2022, 10:18:59 PM
I knew that the fire-breathing would become relevant!

Hopefully the white dragon guy isn't gonna ruin it all again.

...It'll also be quite a scene if Mari shows up, given that Yoshi recognises him as the Cynn but doesn't know about his whole thing with Hawk.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on July 31, 2022, 09:45:15 PM
Yikes. That is not the ideal way for the announcement to be made, no.

And why is Aries so confident? Does he not know that the dragon ran?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 01, 2022, 10:26:10 AM
And he loat his entire arm last time, would think it would make im less inclined to take on Hawk again. Worrying!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on August 02, 2022, 05:50:16 AM
Yes, this is all very worrying! And dramatic.

My hope is that Yoshi will be a help here - she's a factor I don't think they'd've accounted for, and we're still not 100% sure what her other form can do, but it seems to be able to help, at least.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 07, 2022, 04:52:24 PM
Excellemt use of emotion-imagery on today’s page. Really well done!

Having said that, I hope the tension building will be over soon and we will see some resolutions.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 07, 2022, 09:54:51 PM
Is everybody seeing this storm, which is actual local weather? Or is that Numair seeing Hawk's emotional state?

That tall grass/grain around Numair seems to me to indicate the latter -- everybody else seems to be standing in short growth.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 08, 2022, 05:32:35 AM
I’m sure it’s Hawk’s inner stormy plain. So only Numair sees and feels it.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 14, 2022, 09:56:43 PM
I thought at first that I'd somehow missed a page; but it's a double update. Be sure to check both of them.

What is that stuff that Aries is leaking? And is it any connection to Numair's black exhale when ill/exhausted? Not that Aries appears to be either ill or exhausted --

And is that expression on Hawk's face due to the transformation of his arm, or to something about Aries?

At least it's Aries who Hawk is furious at, not Numair. Though I suppose he might be furious at Numair also, but (quite correctly) be considering Aries as the immediate threat who needs to be dealt with first.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on September 25, 2022, 03:57:27 PM
Oh my dear boys  :'( Hawk has every right to be furious, but I do hope they come out of this with something salvageable.

Is the red / yellow stuff now leaking from Hawk the opposite of the black that was oozing from Aries?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on September 25, 2022, 10:12:55 PM
Oh my dear boys  :'( Hawk has every right to be furious, but I do hope they come out of this with something salvageable.

Yes, exactly.

-- And while Hawk has every right to be furious: he's not actually furious at the right thing. Numair wasn't laughing at him. Numair wasn't trying to use him. Numair is actually in love with him -- and did entirely the wrong thing about it; but Hawk has Numair's motives wrong. I hope he will wind up listening.

I don't know whether it'll help to find out that Numair only just found out who Liya is -- or rather, only just found out who Hawk is. But he's not going to find out that, either, if he won't listen. And Numair may, yet again, say the wrong thing first.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on September 26, 2022, 11:54:36 AM
You are right. He (Hawk) is painting a picture much darker than the reality about Numair’s motives. Hopefully he will listen to either Mari or someone else so that they can work it our. His terrible life as victim of cruel persecution since very young age cannot help him in building and keeping trust! It may require Liya and / or Teige to untangle this.

When Hawk has time to consider, he’s bound to figure out that Vlad must have known. Again, this is not helping with the trust!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 09, 2022, 08:12:03 PM
Interesting. What people in the comics seem to be reading is Numair repressing his feelings in an unhealthy fashion. What I read was Numair fighting to get his fury under control because he understands that erupting in rage at the moment is only going to make things worse, and because he thinks that any hope of straightening things out with Hawk isn't going to be reached by screaming at him (or, worse, attacking him in some fashion; Numair's not the kind of fighter that Hawk is, but he does have some effective access to magic.)

A ruler has to be able to control their anger, if they're not to become the sort of tyrant who murders others for disagreeing. Control it, not ignore it; anger's a very useful thing, but only if it's under control. Maybe the commenters are correct and Numair's trying to ignore his anger instead of control it for later use when and as appropriate; but I hope not.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on October 11, 2022, 07:10:45 AM
I think potentially there could be some aspects of both there?

Being able to control anger is a useful skill especially for Numair as a ruler who needs to keep face for the public, and lashing out in this situation would definitely be unhelpful. So, in some ways it is good that Mari is calming himself - it's a wise diplomatic move.

However, I do feel that it is quite likely that he may also start repressing this anger, and may sit with it for too long and not bring it up at a healthy time, since it doesn't seem there are many people around whom he can genuinely express his emotions and he may have been practiced at just pushing everything down.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 16, 2022, 04:21:16 PM
Maybe Liya can calm him down?

Hope so!

-- and whether Numair's repressing rage healthily or unhealthily, this (Oct 16 page) does seem like the right thing to do right now. But I suspect that you're right, and that both good and bad aspects of emotional control are involved.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 06, 2022, 05:57:52 PM
Woooah.

Teige did well to recognize him. I'm glad Liya will have some idea what to expect.

I hope they can help. Though I suspect they can; this doesn't seem like the sort of work to just write Hawk off, and he certainly doesn't seem able to get this under any sort of control. -- though he didn't try to hit or bite Numair; so I think that while his shape is out of control, Hawk's anger is partially controlled, if not controlled enough to let him listen to explanations.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 07, 2022, 01:34:04 PM
He’s understanding that Liya needs to be warned, so that’s something! Also on previous page it could be interpreted that merely seeing Teige hlps him become a little more coherent. Maybe meeting his friend helps him ground himself? And if this is the case, maybe meeting his sister will help more. Here’s hoping!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 13, 2022, 09:48:55 PM
Page.

And can I just say that Teige is amazing?

After the first astonishment, calm and exuding calm; like a skilled person trying to talk somebody down from a bad acid trip. Only I think these manifestations are real.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 15, 2022, 07:39:40 AM
Teige is superb! Gentle and caring, but also very no-nonsense, lie down here and I’ll calm you down. Thei bond is deep, as Hawk also knew even in his state that Teige will be able to help.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 27, 2022, 04:28:22 PM
Page again! With a shoked and angry person on it. Oh the tension!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 27, 2022, 10:35:04 PM
Indeed.

Is Liya not going to believe that that's Hawk?

And what might Liya's upset do to Hawk's mental state -- especially if she appears to be rejecting him?

Or what if she just runs away?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 04, 2022, 10:15:15 PM
What is that "stop"? I took it at first for somebody -- maybe Hawk? -- saying "stop" in a really weird voice. But, reading the descriptive text, it seems to just say that Liya stops, not that anyone tells her to; so maybe that odd text is just meant to show that it's a description of her action, and not a voice?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 05, 2022, 03:16:09 AM
Thorny, I think so too. It’s one of those effects that are common in other comics but it looks weird because it’s not normally in use in White Noise. I guess it indicates a very abrupt stop. I assume she sees hawk and is shocked (more).
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 11, 2022, 05:38:26 PM
Wow.

Liya is also amazing. That shift in a moment from utter freakout to utter and active determination --


-- and, on a second look, people in the crowd in the background turning their eyes to stare at her when she says that --
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 12, 2022, 11:29:14 AM
She totally called it at first glance, but it seems like Vlad had also worked it out. But for now the main emphasis shall be on healing him! Soon!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 18, 2022, 07:12:00 PM
I . . . don't even know what to say about this page.

Liya, can you read that like a radiologist reading a moving CT scan? I sure hope so.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 19, 2022, 01:15:58 AM
My words exactly :) I was impressed but completely out of things to say. Shifting while injured is bad, but looks like healing while patient is shifting is no easy task either.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on December 19, 2022, 07:16:41 AM
It looks like the issue isn't just that Hawk is shifting but also that Hawk is uh. Currently struggling to maintain a singular corporeal form. I mean in the last panel you can see that his body is hella glitching with the incorporeal heads but also multiple solid-looking limbs and tails - his form's all over the place. Like trying to do surgery on someone who's clipping through alternate dimensions or smth.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 19, 2022, 02:28:19 PM
Yeah, you are right. Although the glitchimg could be because of him shifting while wounded (and while not having any clue whatsoever how to control it even in best of circumstances).
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 25, 2022, 06:00:19 PM
Wow.

What a holiday present! (I wasn't even sure if there would be a page today.)


-- and if it ever turns out I can shape shift, now if I can just remember this page I'll know how to get back.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on December 25, 2022, 07:39:27 PM
This is just so SO wow. Thepooka is a masterful artist. Just brilliant. And beautiful!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on January 02, 2023, 06:41:19 AM
Happyhappyjoyjoy
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on January 08, 2023, 07:47:34 PM
 -- wait a minute.

End of Chapter 12? -- Arc 1 epilogue?! I thought we were smack in the middle of a political revolution, here! And what about Numair and Hawk?

Maybe that's Arc 2? (At least there's apparently going to be one. Though when is entirely unclear.) Or maybe it's going to be jammed into the epilogue? But this is not a comic that generally rushes things.

I thought waiting a week between pages was hard!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on January 09, 2023, 12:37:47 AM
Thorny, my feelings exactly! I was starting to worry that it will not wrap things up as the pages piled (I had read earlier this is the last chapter) but still this was a shock  o_O At least there is going to (??) be an Arc 2. Still I hope Hawk and Numair will find reconciliation in the epilogue or the short stories!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on January 22, 2023, 09:26:38 PM
OK, looks like maybe we're having a revolution after all?

(And it will be -- not exactly televized -- but broadcast.)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on January 29, 2023, 04:09:48 PM
So -- now what?

What if the Assembly just goes and assembles somewhere else? Would that make their proceedings invalid?

Can Numair do anything much without them? How much? He clearly has done some things without them; but it's entirely unclear to me either what his powers are, or what the assembly's are, or to what extent if any either of them can veto the other's action. -- In the USA: the President can do some things by executive action on their own; for other things the President needs Congressional cooperation; bills passed by Congress can be vetoed by the President, Congress can override a Presidential veto if they've got enough extra votes, but it takes a higher percentage of votes than to pass something the President agrees to. But this isn't the USA and Numair's not a president. He's the Cynn -- but what can the Cynn do? Obviously not just whatever he wants, or he wouldn't need to go through all this. Obviously he does have some powers. But again, I'm entirely unclear on the structure.

Does Numair just get to make whatever speech he's got in mind, and they won't be able to cut him off? That might be useful -- but probably only if popular rebellion, or the threat of it, can override the assembly.

I'm wondering also whether Numair's trying to start a revolution, thereby changing the governmental structure; or just trying to bring pressure enough to make that structure work to stop people from being sold off. If he's trying to do the second, he may nevertheless find the first is what's happening.

And if the Reifa are coming back -- what does that do to the current governmental structure, and the current social structure? These two threads of the story may not be as separate as they look.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on January 30, 2023, 08:42:20 AM
I very much hope that the broadcast is already ongoing via Sraddi, wasn't it implied earlier that it would be the broadcasting equipment? Perhaps starting with "I will set up a broadcast of these talks" and then tinker with the equipment while Sraddi already is broadcasting.

In any case it's hard to tell what is likely to happen because we don't know much about Aetheri politics. How large a proportion of the population is listening or even interested? How large a proportion of spirit population who probably matter more than the various non-spirits who may or may not (I'm thinking not) have some sort of political influence, but probably not one equal to the spirits themselves. Or maybe some of them have citizenship and therefore also political rights? But I don't think all of them do.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on January 30, 2023, 11:39:45 AM
Excellent additions to the list of things we don't know! -- if this were something by Minna, I''d strongly suspect that she didn't know either. thephooka, however, may have this all worked out already. Or not, I don't know.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on February 05, 2023, 07:19:00 PM
OK. Maybe this works even though they've walked out. (And it doesn't seem as if the broadcast had already started.)

Somebody in the comments provided a handy link that turned out to be only a few pages off from a partial explanation of what Numair's up to, which I'd forgotten the details of. Start here (or a few pages back from there) and read forward an additional few pages:

http://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/10-25 (http://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/10-25)

and, basically, Numair is indeed saying that he wants to broadcast in order to bring public pressure on the Council. 'They can stonewall the Cynn, he's only one person. But they can't stonewall everyone' -- not precise quote, but pretty close.

Ideally, I think, the Council's resistance would be part of the broadcast, in their own words. But Numair's speech on its own, with the information that the Council wouldn't even stay to hear it -- that might well have the desired effect.

Or, at least, something adjacent to the desired effect. Numair seems to think the public will just bring pressure on the Council, and the Council will then agree to form the interplanetary anti-slavery body which Numair thinks can do the job without starting a war. But what if the public throws the Council out entirely instead? Has Numair even considered that?

I do get the impression that he'd considered the possibility that the Council would walk out, though.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on February 19, 2023, 10:04:22 PM
-- OK and he does really seem to be calling for a revolution.

But is he trying just to get the current members of the Council ousted, while keeping the same structure; or to upend the whole system? -- and if the latter: does he expect to go with it? to wind up holding power all on his own, without any Council? to accept some other type of limits?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on February 20, 2023, 06:33:21 AM
Has he considered this possibility or was he surprised that they all left?

Is the council in its entirety the handful of people we see scheming in the hallway? How do they come to be on it? It seems to have a hereditary component (the great houses) but are they selected from a pool and of yes, by whom? Or just a system where each house has a representative and the house determines who it is? Admittedly, some of this is probably described in the worldbuilding blog which I haven’t really read much.

It’s encouraging to see persons who clearly are spirits interested too! The first crown shots were very mixed. Which reminds me that do we know anything about how much of the resident population is spirits vs. outworlders? It’s been said it’s not easy to gain entry, but we see a lot of people from different worlds in Aetheri .

It’s less encouraging to see the council more or less openly speaking about disposing of Numair! Watch out, Mari! You need a big and strong bodyguard!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on February 26, 2023, 07:50:59 PM
There are a few more shown in the page where they're arguing with Numair as he sets up the broadcast; but not many. Maybe it's a really small council, only about eight people? But I do wonder what happened to the rest -- does the building have more than one exit, and they headed in another direction? did they move more slowly, and are coming behind this group?

-- and, considering that slam: I wonder if they're storming back in to try to stop Numair, by any means necessary. The crowd will hear them, at least unless/until they get the broadcast stopped; and the scribes are witnesses. Though I suppose if they're willing to stop Numair by killing or imprisoning him, they wouldn't hesitate to do the same to the scribes.

I wonder whether the Council thinks they can order Sraddi to stop broadcasting? And if so, I wonder whether they're right?

-- but the crowd would in any case know that something had happened. And if the Council tried to explain that Numair had just had a stroke or something, I gather that there are too many truth seers among the spirits for that to be believed.

And in addition to all the other things I'm wondering: I'm wondering whether Hawk is listening to this. And if not, how he's managing to avoid it.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on February 27, 2023, 02:02:03 PM
Hawk wouldn’t understand it? Numair is speaking in Aetherian. But I do hope he sees how big an impact their equipment is having!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 26, 2023, 11:44:31 PM
I don't think it's occured to Hawk yet that Vlad knew who Mari was all along.

Maybe he thinks Vlad didn't recognize Mari? But if so, that's going to make the shock even worse when he finds out; because Vlad doesn't seem to be telling him now, either. Isn't Hawk going to be furious that Vlad hasn't at least apologized?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 27, 2023, 03:30:34 AM
I think he’s got enough people to be mad at already, hopefully it will take some time before he realizes this particular slight. Also it can be argued that Vlad’ silence is merely an aspect of Numair’s, Vlad is his subject and must do what he tells him to do and therefore had no choice in the matter.

Now I don’t think Vlad, or Numair, actually see it quite like this, but it could be argued!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 27, 2023, 09:29:45 AM
It could be argued; but Hawk doesn't seem to have been very amenable to listening to arguments on this subject.

I'm hoping that he'll eventually become more so. I hope we don't have to wait till Arc 2 to find out -- though I wouldn't be surprised if so.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on March 28, 2023, 08:42:27 AM
I do have to say, one thing I have appreciated about this whole saga is that it shows a person who is genuinely kind and well-meaning still managing to royally screw up a relationship for reasons that were both selfish, understandable, entirely in-character and entirely his fault.

However, I do hope Hawk cools off more than he is now.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 02, 2023, 07:45:05 PM
I do have to say, one thing I have appreciated about this whole saga is that it shows a person who is genuinely kind and well-meaning still managing to royally screw up a relationship for reasons that were both selfish, understandable, entirely in-character and entirely his fault.

However, I do hope Hawk cools off more than he is now.

Agreeing with that. Good guys can screw up too; it's important to show that. (Though they tend to do different things about it afterwards than bad guys do.)

And Hawk looks like he might be thinking it over. Hope so!

-- cricket flour, maybe? I've read about that; haven't tasted any, but would be willing to try it.

-- I just realized that most recent page looks awfully like a pause point. Wonder whether we've just run out of epilogue and will have to wait for more; though I'd rather expect at least one more page, to say that.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on April 03, 2023, 12:44:17 PM
Oh, you are terribly right about this being a possible current end! But certainly thephooka wouldn’t just drop off, so I agree there’s going to be at least some announcement.

At least Hawk seems ro be considering that he just might take it under consideration that maybe Mari didn’t only play him. At least I very much hope so!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 03, 2023, 03:23:36 PM
Especially as Mari handed over those papers after Hawk had blown up at him and refused to speak to him. That's pretty clearly 'I will do this for you even if you'll never have anything to do with me again.'
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 09, 2023, 09:35:30 PM
Looks like we're getting at least a couple more pages. This one looks less like a pause point, I think there's bound to be at least one more.

I wonder how much of that curled-up-head-in-hands is the headache and politics, and how much is Hawk? --
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on April 10, 2023, 12:36:06 PM
And how much he doesn’t mention Hawk to Helly!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 11, 2023, 12:24:44 AM
Has he ever mentioned Hawk to Helly? I can't remember whether ne knows about Hawk or not.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on April 11, 2023, 04:29:46 AM
I don’t think ne does. Or at least the conversations between them we’ve been shown are about how he works too much and pushes himself too far. It would also seem like Helly to say something about the personal issue too in this conversation, if ne knew.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 26, 2023, 04:46:51 PM
So, two pages later:

Yes, Helly knows about Hawk. And Helly apparently also knows at least something about Aries.

Probably considerably more than we do.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 30, 2023, 05:10:38 PM
Does Mari mean that he thinks he's dying?

And if so: what does that have to do with Aries having shown up?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on May 04, 2023, 09:52:38 AM
Are they talking about Aries or about assassination of Numair by oter council members? And, Hawk would be useful in regards of either threat.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on May 04, 2023, 10:26:11 AM
I think that at this point they're talking about Aries; or about something having to do with Aries having shown up. I'm not sure whether the danger is Aries directly, or something else that's indicated by Aries' presence.

Hawk would indeed be useful. -- I don't think Hawk knows that Numair's in danger; at least, not about the sources and extent of the danger. Maybe somebody should tell him. It's pretty clear that Numair's not going to (for that matter, Numair shouldn't; the thing to do now is to respect boundaries, though I don't think some fashion of 'I'll talk with you if and when and only if you want to' delivered, once only, in writing or through a third party would be out of line.)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 11, 2023, 05:18:42 PM
Numair, if that's Hawk, hadn't you better put the knife away? You've got enough misunderstandings going on already.

(Admittedly, in that panel I think he hasn't had a chance to do so yet.)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 11, 2023, 06:03:20 PM
But at least  there is going to be Talking. Hopefully hugs and kisses as well!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 11, 2023, 10:57:13 PM
Yes, let's get to see the sun come out in that field!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on June 12, 2023, 09:19:40 AM
Yes, hopefully this sorts out.... something

(I'm excited for next week's page)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 18, 2023, 04:26:17 PM
Ah, Numair? I'm not sure that's a great start?

-- though at least he asked him in!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 19, 2023, 05:35:52 AM
Yeah, Mari, don’t ruin this again!!

But I also had a sad thought. Maybe Numair truly believes there is no way Hawk would like him for him now that he knows. Perhaps Numair has grown such an armor around him that it makes him believe everyone is always just wanting something. I thought he left in shame about deceiving Hawk, but perhaps he’s also convinced that there is no way Hawk could possibly be here for any other reason than getting a favor from the Cynn.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 19, 2023, 09:08:00 AM
Numair seemed, a few pages ago, to possibly not expect to live much longer. I'm worried that he'll think it's kinder to Hawk to push him away now, instead of tangling Hawk up in Numair's dangers only to break Hawk's heart further when whatever Numair's expecting to happen does happen.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on June 20, 2023, 08:31:02 AM
Well, at least they're... talking? But yeah, Mari... possibly not a great first response
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 25, 2023, 05:24:17 PM
That page, at least, went better than I was afraid it was going to.

Right question to ask, Hawk. And right to give the honest answer, Mari/Numair! (Is he blushing?) Now could you guys keep both using your words, for a while?

-- and is Hawk wondering whether there's actually somebody there, inside Sraddi?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 26, 2023, 01:47:49 PM
Numais came this -><- close to making a great mistake but at the last momentHawk pulled them both away from the edge. Not very far from the edge, but at least they are not plummeting to the true death of their relationship at the moment.

Although I wonder why Numair almost drove Hawk away. He is a truthseer, certainly he had some idea what type of business Hawk arrived with.

I read Hawk’s gesture as him being a little uncertain whether Sraddi is a person or not. Better to err on the side on caution, i.e.going for the possibly unnecessarily friendly rather than accidental cold shoulder.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 27, 2023, 11:15:35 AM
Numair might have wanted to drive Hawk away in order to try to protect him. Numair's in a whole lot of trouble, apparently from multiple directions; Hawk might get killed and/or captured just because of an association with Numair.

Of course, he's already been captured, nearly killed, and made a batch of enemies all on his own. I suspect that, while neither of them is safe in any case, they're both a little safer together. Plus which -- that needs to be Hawk's informed decision; not one made for Hawk by Numair, for whatever motives.

Re Sraddi -- yes, that's what it looked like to me; Hawk's not sure whether anybody's in there, but doesn't want to be rude if someone is. -- do we know whether somebody's in there? I can't remember all the interactions we've seen with Sraddi.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 28, 2023, 12:13:53 PM
Sraddi is a construct which I believe is sort of a magical ”robot” ie. a device, not a person.

There’s quite a lot of speculation in the comment section that Aries might be a sentient construct, apparently it’s mentioned somewhere that making one sentient / alive is illegal, which would mean it’s possible to do so. I don’t know where this is from, there is a lot of worldbuilding material in the extras but I haven’t really read much of it.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on June 28, 2023, 03:39:43 PM
So -- Sraddi's not supposed to be sentient; but might be anyway; but is illegal if so?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on June 28, 2023, 05:42:54 PM
Hmm, when you put it like that - maybe!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on July 02, 2023, 06:25:41 PM
So -- either Sraddi's not sentient; or Sraddi doesn't want Hawk to know that they are?

Or Sraddi's been instructed not to let anybody know, and either can't or doesn't want to violate the instruction?

(I seem to want Sraddi to be sentient. Though it might be easier on them if they aren't, if that makes any sense.)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on July 03, 2023, 02:46:12 PM
The comments on White Noise seem agreed that Sraddi is biolocked or something like that to Numair, i.e. only operable by him. whether that has bearing on sentience, I don’t know. But I’d like to think Numair wouldn’t keep what would essentially be a slave, whether created by him or othewise.

I’m not sure the conversation is off to a good start, but it is a start. That’s something, at least it’s a… start. Ok I’ll stop now.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on July 03, 2023, 03:25:54 PM
But I’d like to think Numair wouldn’t keep what would essentially be a slave, whether created by him or othewise.

I can see it happening, if Numair didn't create Sraddi but discovered that Sraddi's sentient, or created Sraddi in Numair's youth without fully understanding the consequences: because the only way to protect Sraddi from destruction might be for Numair to keep them as if they weren't sentient, and Sraddi might not want to be destroyed and might accept living under Numair's protection in that fashion.

If that's the situation, however, I'd expect that whatever restrictions there are on Sraddi interacting with others, that Sraddi would be able to choose to override them. But they might not trust Hawk enough, at least yet, to do so. -- and I'd also expect that there are often conversations between Numair and Sraddi that we're not being shown.

-- however a considerably simpler explanation would be that Sraddi's just a non-sentient tool, and that scene was only meant to show something about Hawk's character.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: JoB on July 03, 2023, 05:46:57 PM
and I'd also expect that there are often conversations between Numair and Sraddi that we're not being shown.
Chekhov's speech bubble might apply here. I found that I do not need all the graphical variations used to tell between Sraddis own wording vs. quoting someone else, but extending thereon would allow to have it really stand out if a third manner of speaking does suddenly pop up ...

I’d like to think Numair wouldn’t keep what would essentially be a slave, whether created by him or othewise.
We're talking about a construct - that, even if sentient, may have been made to be unable to fend for itself, at least in some respects ...
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on July 17, 2023, 12:43:08 PM
Well done, Mari! Revealing something you are ashamed of is good in a discussion intended to clear the air.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on July 23, 2023, 04:37:05 PM
Words, words, Numair using words!

-- and does Numair have anybody sentient in his life that he can say such things to? Maybe Helly? but I don't know that he has. This outburst may be the first he's allowed himself in many years.

I can't remember -- did he say something similar to Vlad, when originally asking Vlad not to tell Hawk? it came without the emotion showing much, if so. -- no, nothing remotely like this. And Numair didn't even know Vlad yet, so Vlad would have been a highly unlikely person for Numair to unburden himself at. The scene's here, mostly this couple of pages:
http://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/10-18
http://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/10-19
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on July 24, 2023, 01:51:46 PM
Somehow I’ve thought that Numair does know Vlad, through Shinobu. But now I’m not sure. At least he knew immediately upon seeing Vlad that Vlad recognized him, despite the, being in another world. Although Vlad is a spirt so he may be considered likely to know about Aetheri matters whether he lives there or not.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on July 24, 2023, 03:04:24 PM
One page earlier, it's made clear Numair didn't know Vlad, though did recognize his name:

http://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/10-17

And on the page before that, it's obvious from Vlad's words and behavior that Vlad recognizes Numair. He asks if he should bow, and addresses Numair as Your Highness.

http://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/10-16

Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on July 26, 2023, 03:04:06 AM
Oh yes, you are right! I did remember that Vlad recognized Numair, but not the first part.

It was never shown what Hawk thought about Vlad’s role in this. It’s probably occurred to him Vlad must have known. But I’m sure that’s settled by now, whether there were Words or not.

Which reminds me, there’s been some time and no information on what’s going on in Aetheri with the radio thing. That’s probably for Arc 2, but I’m interested! Not quite as interested as seeing these two make up, but still, I’d like to know!

At the same time I hope Thepooka will take some time to rest after this by now long epilogue wraps up. Although preferably not before the boys are back together! <3
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on July 30, 2023, 02:26:13 PM
This week's page not up yet -- but last week's page has developed a rather charged discussion in the comments, due to a new commenter's coming in and very much praising the comic but first noting that they're "not a big fan of the transgender thing". Which brings in responses from thephooka and others.

Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on July 30, 2023, 04:07:08 PM
Oh well! Thanks for mentioning this, I’ll go see. I wonder what the commenter was expecting to happen??

Today’s page is up now. I hope they are close to reconciliation now!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on July 30, 2023, 04:56:55 PM
I think it may not have occured to the commenter that the strip's author might be trans.

Though I still don't know what they expected to happen, even if they thought thephooka had just put trans characters in because of thinking that was in style, or something.

     [ETA: on re-reading that it looks as if I wouldn't expect a cis author to use trans characters; and of course cis authors can and do. But I don't think the commenter was expecting to be called out by a trans author.]

-- the new page is impressive. And they're both actually thinking about this, aren't they? Brains in gear; that's likely going to make it work. They've both got extremely good brains, after all; just no practice in using them in this fashion.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on July 31, 2023, 11:40:47 PM
Yeah, I love the new page - it's really good and satisfying to see Hawk and Mari actually having a good discussion.

This week's page not up yet -- but last week's page has developed a rather charged discussion in the comments, due to a new commenter's coming in and very much praising the comic but first noting that they're "not a big fan of the transgender thing". Which brings in responses from thephooka and others.

Regardless of the fact that the commenter may not have known that the author was trans, it seems weird that someone would note that they're not a fan of 'the transgender thing' on a comic which has several diverse and authentically-written trans characters. As Jitter said, what were they expecting from the other commenters / author? I hope that the experience might help them learn something, at any rate.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 01, 2023, 10:10:52 AM
plus their response was stupid, "I'm not planning to become one" (transgender person). Oh I see, apparently they are planning to become a winged hunk, and a healer with a smith's muscles, and another healer who is also a tree? Reading something outside of one's own experience is enriching, not something that we shouldn't do!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on August 01, 2023, 10:29:22 AM
Having read the comments, I admire thephooka and the other commenters for their relatively civil responses to such an...... off-taste? Weirdly insulting? Transphobic but in a particularly weird way? kind of comment.

plus their response was stupid, "I'm not planning to become one" (transgender person). Oh I see, apparently they are planning to become a winged hunk, and a healer with a smith's muscles, and another healer who is also a tree? Reading something outside of one's own experience is enriching, not something that we shouldn't do!

Yeah, it's weird - like... do they feel that the existence of transgender people somehow threatens their own gender or something? Do they think that transgender people are trying to convert people or something? I'm not transgender but my girlfriend and a large proportion of my friends are, so I'm pretty sure if transgender people were trying to stop people from being cis I would know. And as you said Jitter, it's enriching and interesting to read stories outside of your own experience and understand that other people have different experiences than you do - you don't have to understand why someone might want to be a gender that's different from the one they were given at birth in order to respect that it's their life and that's the place they're at.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: JoB on August 01, 2023, 01:13:36 PM
Yeah, it's weird - like... do they feel that the existence of transgender people somehow threatens their own gender or something? Do they think that transgender people are trying to convert people or something?
I obviously have no idea about that commenter in particular, but if you ask the right - as in, sufficiently far right - people ...

https://www.tagesschau.de/faktenfinder/queerfeindlichkeit-desinformation-100.html
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 01, 2023, 01:47:16 PM
Do I actually want to go to that link, and am I going to be able to understand it if I do? I'm afraid I can only read English and a miniscule amount of French.

-- I wonder whether what they felt threatened about was thinking that people might assume they're transgender if they admit to liking a comic with sympathetic transgender characters? Which makes no sense if one thinks about it for five minutes -- not only is nobody going to conclude that they must be a shapeshifter or a truthseer, but surely they've noticed that many works in many fields present characters who are both male and female and nobody assumes that anyone praising those works must be a specific one of those -- but I suspect the commenter is somebody who's never actually thought about this before. I hope that they will now.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 01, 2023, 03:54:03 PM
Yeah, Thorny, something like that occurs to me too. Maybe the ”not into the transgender thing” was more of an automatic comment to distance them from the topic, and having been asked WHY they find it objectionable makes them think and hopefully even find they don’t really have a reason. Here’s hoping anyways!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: JoB on August 02, 2023, 03:50:33 AM
Do I actually want to go to that link, and am I going to be able to understand it if I do? I'm afraid I can only read English and a miniscule amount of French.
Google can translate the text (https://www-tagesschau-de.translate.goog/faktenfinder/queerfeindlichkeit-desinformation-100.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp) for you, but not the opener photo, which admittedly is all I expected y'all to look at. Yes, the text has a paragraph about the "portray as a threat to children" topic, too, but it doesn't capture the sheer scream of "we'll agitprop people's brains out!" that the photo conveys.

-- I wonder whether what they felt threatened about was thinking that people might assume they're transgender if they admit to liking a comic with sympathetic transgender characters? Which makes no sense if one thinks about it for five minutes -- not only is nobody going to conclude that they must be a shapeshifter or a truthseer, but surely they've noticed that many works in many fields present characters who are both male and female and nobody assumes that anyone praising those works must be a specific one of those -- but I suspect the commenter is somebody who's never actually thought about this before. I hope that they will now.
Hmmmm I wonder whether that's why so many fans dislike major character deaths ... :P

"Hello everyone, I'm Fan-ny and I'm dead!"
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Róisín on August 02, 2023, 06:29:18 AM
I think there may be an element of ‘one true way’ about that attitude. You know the one, I’m sure…..’this is how I am and there is no other legitimate way to be’. Personally I find looking at the world from the viewpoint of people or things very different from myself to be interesting and informative, but then I am sufficiently myself to not be vulnerable to being easily changed into someone else merely by being exposed to another viewpoint. I get the impression that a lot of ‘one true way’ types lack sufficient character and autonomy to have opinions unless somebody has very firmly told them what to think they are or what they believe.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 02, 2023, 08:47:45 AM
That attitude does always seem to me to imply a major insecurity. As you say, people who are sure who they are don't need to feel threatened by somebody else's being somebody else. The way I sometimes put it is, who wants to look into a mirror all the time? I want to look out the window and see somebody different!

(I've been wearing glasses since I was six. The back of my head seems to expect there to be glass involved in my vision, one way or another.)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 13, 2023, 05:23:10 PM
Page is up --

and I think this is going to work!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on August 14, 2023, 03:30:27 AM
Yes! They are having a very good conversation - it's honestly nice to see a healthy relational conversation in a piece of media.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 14, 2023, 03:38:09 AM
They are both being so mature, it almost seems out of character. Good thing it was mentioned that Hawk promised to get therapy, I think he has.

For some reason it seems to me it would be harder for Hawk, although Numair probably has even thicker shell around him. Hawk never got the opportunity to openly be vulnerable, but Numair was actively kept imprisoned in his shell.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 20, 2023, 04:37:11 PM
Hawk, that's not the only way you're already involved!

And it might not be the right one to bring up first in this conversation.

-- but at least Numair's being honest about why he doesn't want Hawk to stay involved.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on August 20, 2023, 05:45:07 PM
I wouldn’t be surprised if the mistake that was left behind was Aries. I’m not sure Hawk has realized there is more history than Numair just getting randomly attacked and escaping the thugs. Or, well, the attack was random because the traffickers didn’t recognize Numair, but clearly there’s more than that.

Also ai don’t think Hawk can really fathom the game of thrones ongoing with the council and the danger involved. He’s been in Aetheri for a short while and until quite recently had the impression that the cynn is a very powerful figure. I am quite certain he doesn’t realize how close Numair is to getting assassinated.

And he really is, as he doesn’t seem to have any security on his living floor. It would be a very good idea to get a big and strong bodyguard in his room! Preferably one that can also perform airborne extraction if needed!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on August 20, 2023, 06:48:53 PM
And one who can be trusted; and who Numair can stand to have around all the time --

Guys: you are both in danger and that's going to be true even if you're separated. I suspect that you're both at least slightly safer together.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on September 03, 2023, 07:37:38 PM
Oh, perfect, perfect, perfect, Hawk!

-- and "for as long as we can" is all one (two) (however many) ever get(s). And nobody ever knows how long it's going to be.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on September 04, 2023, 05:19:00 AM
You're very right, Thorny!

Hawk is really pulling out all the romance moves here, for a guy whose only previous relationship was a one-night hookup that ended very badly (though not for reasons that were Hawk's or the other guy's fault)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on September 04, 2023, 09:18:55 AM
I'm trying to remember that one -- was it when the bar was attacked? Do you remember the pages?

When the comic goes on pause (I hope not for too long!), I think I'm going to go back and re-read it from the beginning.

Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on September 04, 2023, 09:00:50 PM
Yes, it was when the bar was attacked. Hawk and others were outside because Hawk was fighting the bigoted and possessive ex of the guy he'd just hooked up with, leaving them stranded outside the bar when it was attacked.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on September 11, 2023, 08:25:28 AM
There's a good ending to Arc 1.  ;D

And -- there's an ending to Arc 1.  :'(

          (is there a one-emoji-to-a-post rule? that second one's not showing up right.)

But we do have again a promise that there'll be an Arc 2; and also of interesting bits and pieces every week inbetween.

I still think I'm going to go back and read the whole thing over again. Some of the beginning I found pretty confusing the first time; it's likely to make more sense now.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on September 11, 2023, 08:33:35 AM
Oh wow. END OF ARC 1!! I knew it was coming but I honestly didn't realise it'd be now!

(......it also seems like that emoji has broken. I will have to test and rectify this situation)

(it appears that  :'( and  :'D have broken.... maybe this has something to do with apostrophes in the code? all the other emojis work fine)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on September 11, 2023, 03:12:27 PM
Such lovely lovely ending!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on September 17, 2023, 09:25:41 PM
Hey! We get to see some of the unsaid things said!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on September 18, 2023, 05:45:04 PM
Ouch! Right in the feels again.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on September 26, 2023, 03:05:00 PM
And yet -- even that early --

the hand of the Other, which his father (I presume that's his father?) rejects in their pain: when it's held out to Numair: Numair takes and holds on to it.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on September 26, 2023, 04:48:12 PM
Yes, I read this as Numair’s mother dying in childbirth and his father incapable of seeing past their grief to see their innocent child. Thank the gods for Helly.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 08, 2023, 10:46:54 PM
Indeed.

But who is there to comfort Helly?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on October 09, 2023, 06:02:10 AM
Hopefully Helly can whisper nir sorrows to the wind, or leak them to ground, being a tree and all. Clearly ne has feelings, but perhaps it’s different for such an ancient being.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 09, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
Helly appears to be disconnected from the fungal root network. But maybe ne can temporarily put roots down and link into it?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on October 09, 2023, 11:47:18 AM
I hope so, having grown as part of it, it would be natural ne longs for the connection sometimes even though separation was nir own choice.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 15, 2023, 04:45:56 PM
So what year is it in Vlad's world?

And how old is Vlad?

(No comment on the crop top and shorts look -- other than that I don't think I ever saw anybody male wearing it? I am definitely not a person who knows about fashion, though.)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on October 16, 2023, 09:58:44 AM
The spirits have much longer lifespans than us Earth humans, I seem to recall Vlad was gone for many decades and he still appears to be on the younger side, definitely not old for his species.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 16, 2023, 02:43:28 PM
Yeah. That's got to be an issue for Numair and Hawk, eventually -- though right now Numair clearly doesn't expect his lifespan to be longer than Hawk's. But I wonder whether it might be one already, in that Hawk, though an adult, may be much younger than Numair.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on October 22, 2023, 11:28:54 PM
I suspected I knew the answer; but I went and googled gator jerky, to find out whether it's readily available in our world.

It is, of course -- though, not surprisingly, not around where I am; except by mail/internet order.

Interesting that in both worlds there it's apparently legal to sell homemade jerky off the back of a truck/boat. Or, at any rate, commonly done.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on October 23, 2023, 08:27:19 AM
I dunno about gator jerky, but at the butcher my mum goes to (old-style Italian butcher covered in all kinds of signs advertising their wares where she can ask "what's your best pork roast to feed 10 people" and the butcher who she has befriended will find the best thing) you can buy a LOT of different meats including crocodile meat. And camel meat. So hypothetically you COULD make crocodile jerky.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on November 21, 2023, 07:00:53 AM
Is anyone else getting a 404 error when trying to access the White Noise website? The comic's not gone from the internet, all the pages are still up on Adrien's patreon (publically and for free, members just get early access), but the actual comic website seems to be completely down.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 21, 2023, 10:43:33 AM
Yikes! Me too:

 Sorry, this page doesn't exist.
Please check the URL or go back a page.
404 Error. Page Not Found.

It was all right on Sunday. And on Sunday there wasn't any warning of closing down; so I expect it's a glitch of some sort, and hope it'll be fixed soon.

I don't know how to get at the patreon page if it isn't.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 21, 2023, 02:21:24 PM
It’s back! Probably a glitch, possibly due to aggressive geese activity.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on November 22, 2023, 03:51:03 AM
I don't know how to get at the patreon page if it isn't.

Go to patreon.com and search for "Adrien Lee" and his page should come up. But it's good to hear that the site is up again!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on November 22, 2023, 09:13:13 AM
Thanks. I probably won't, now, as the site's back up -- which is in any case a relief. But it's good to know where there's an option.

No comment on the page about it; maybe the glitch was really brief.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on November 22, 2023, 04:30:11 PM
Seems to have been several hours, but as it was not new page day there was perhaps less traffic
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 17, 2023, 07:21:49 PM
Looks like next week we'll start getting a 10 page short story. Or maybe an exposition. I'm looking forward to it, in any case.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on December 18, 2023, 07:44:33 AM
Looks like next week we'll start getting a 10 page short story. Or maybe an exposition. I'm looking forward to it, in any case.

Oh, yay! I'll be looking forwards to that!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on December 24, 2023, 05:52:56 PM
Looks like a combination of story and exposition. Nice start -- I wonder what kind of cake it is?

ETA: there's two pages, but you seem to need to go back one to see the first one.

(And have a good Christmas, if you're celebrating that --)
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on January 08, 2024, 12:01:26 AM
I'm glad that issue's being brought up; though I'm sure Teige thinks it is, or he wouldn't be teaching her.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on February 18, 2024, 05:25:20 PM
We're not getting an ancient traditional love story, as I thought from the start of this sequence we were going to (though I suppose we might get to that later.) We're getting the next chapter in an entirely (in-story) contemporary one: Numair/Mari meeting Hawk's social circle/ family including chosen family, one of them for the first time, all of them for the first time as a group -- and also, rather importantly, for the first time in both of his personas at once.

Looks like a good if cautious start so far --
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on February 20, 2024, 07:31:13 AM
It's really interesting to get a look at Numair's perspective, particularly with his powers! I'm looking forwards to seeing how this plays out.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on February 25, 2024, 06:07:04 PM
More of Numair's perspective! -- which we're apparently going to get intertwined with the ancient love story.

And we found out how old he is. As well as some background about Aetheri's storytelling traditions and history, and current culture. All in one page. This is fascinating.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on February 27, 2024, 08:43:37 AM
Yes, we're getting even more interesting lore and perspectives! I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 03, 2024, 04:55:47 PM
Hey! This is great, but I also want to hear/read this 8000 year old story!
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Jitter on March 04, 2024, 06:37:06 AM
Looks like we are not getting the story, but maybe thephooka will put it in the extras? There are a LOT of extras, although I have to admit I haven’t really gone through them.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 17, 2024, 04:31:20 PM
How old is Yoshi?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: Keep Looking on March 18, 2024, 01:12:09 AM
I think Yoshi is about 15 or 16, right? Similar age to Liya?
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on March 18, 2024, 10:16:05 AM
Yeah, that particular 10 year age difference is pretty drastic.
Title: Re: White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS
Post by: thorny on April 28, 2024, 06:40:08 PM
- and the one with Shinobu is even more so.

You're not the only one making sacrifices here, Shinobu, and you haven't even noticed!