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Worlds and Stories => Worlds & Stories Discussion Board => Topic started by: thorny on March 04, 2023, 05:33:16 PM

Title: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thorny on March 04, 2023, 05:33:16 PM
Edited by Jitter on June 1st 2023: this is the discussion about Bad Space, https://www.badspacecomics.com/

I cut the discussion on Bad Space out of the Comic of the Month thread as was agreed. It opens at a slightly random point, Thorny is responding to note stating the oldest stories are at the bottom of the page in Bad Space. As the stories seem ro be unrelated, it doesn’t really matter much.



Ah. I'm reading them backwards.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 05, 2023, 03:00:06 PM
Well, I just read "Swarm"! Thanks for the suggestion, @Jitter ! I really liked it!

Spoiler for Swarm:
Spoiler: show
This, like the story dmeck mentions, bumps in one of the most common explanations for the Fermi Paradox: Humans are just too bad to be contacted... or swallowed.  :)


And I fully agree that those can be better enjoyed (like most foods, or planets) if eaten with moderation.

So I'll let the next story for tomoroow. ;)
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Keep Looking on March 06, 2023, 02:07:35 AM
I've really enjoyed reading some of the Bad Space comics - they're very... quiet comics in some sense (short, often contemplative) but also can go some really interesting and horrifying places that make me curious to click on each one.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 06, 2023, 11:09:02 AM
Yes, I agree with you, Keep. :)

So today I read "Ozymandias". Interesting story.

Spoiler for the story:
Spoiler: show
I guess that besides the "It's horrible to die in space" part, the author point is a reflection over the insignificance of humans, their (often subjective) struggles and their perception of time, when facing the vastness of the Universe, a bit in the line of Carl Sagan's "pale blue dot (https://www.planetary.org/worlds/pale-blue-dot)" speech. One could argue that such humbling thoughts have little practical effect on our lives. On the other hand I believe any humbling exercise that helps people see things with a broader perspective is useful.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 09, 2023, 03:52:52 PM
Today I read "Ghosts". I liked it, particularly the drawings.

Spoiler for the story:
Spoiler: show
I really like the part of removing paradoxes from the equation. It's one of the most irritating parts of any time travel story. The alternative is, usually, the Multiverse, where every time you travel in time generates a whole new universe (or you simply get transferred to another already existing universe out of an infinite number).
The question is that it makes the whole travel quite pointless, except to you. A person that died is still dead in your original Universe. Only you can experience the change, because to all the others things are just what they always were.

That ghost hypothesis also solves another question: What happens to the atoms that occupy the space where the time traveller materializes? A big ball of thermonuclear fire is one possible answer...  O_O

The last part, realizing "We are all ghosts now" takes us, I believe, carries us to a curious paradox: The present, on one hand, doesn't exists, always slipping into the future. On the other hand there's only the present. The past is gone, the future doesn't exists yet. I'm sure some philosopher already dived into those deep questions, but right know I'm to tired to check...
Anyway, we may be all ghosts now, but that's all the reality we have.
:)

Last thought: Almost all time travel stories* chose to keep the travelers anchored at their spacial reference, which is very practical in terms of storytelling, but really not guaranteed. Since earth, the sun and the whole galaxy are moving (at mindblowing speeds) a short time jump would put our traveller very far away. I remeber someone refering that when that asteroid hit earth, killing most dinossaurs, our planet was almost on the other side of the Milky Way...

* there was a story, whose name and author I don't recall, that uses the time-space displacement. I remember they have a mouse on a cage and they use their time travelling device on it for less than a second, and the animal show up outside the cage, and a bit over the table...   

Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 09, 2023, 05:46:52 PM
On Ghosts

Spoiler: show
Time travel stories always give me headache if they are trying to account for the paradoxes. But there are also those that don’t care, it just works because it works. Or, sometimes, it doesn’t but happens anyway. Some of those are quite entertaining.

Have you read or seen The Time Traveler’s Wife?
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 09, 2023, 06:48:04 PM
Quote from: Jitter on March 09, 2023, 05:46:52 PM
On Ghosts

Spoiler: show
Time travel stories always give me headache if they are trying to account for the paradoxes. But there are also those that don’t care, it just works because it works. Or, sometimes, it doesn’t but happens anyway. Some of those are quite entertaining.

Have you read or seen The Time Traveler’s Wife?

More about that...
Spoiler: show
I also find time-travel paradoxes deeply irritating, and the reason I promised myself not to write any story on that theme. One can set their story on any time, past or future, or even multiple times, and even make strange connections (i.e. Cloud Atlas) but all that can be done without time travel.

An exception would be stories exploring the relativistic distortion of time when you move close to the speed of light. There are some interesting ones on that, like Joe Haldeman's Forever War, or Paul Anderson's Tau Zero, or yet Christopher Nolan's movie Interstellar. But it demands some solid background work. And in those stories there's no moving backwards in time.

The Time Traveler's Wife seems interesting as a concept. I haven't read it, nor seen the movie. But I've checked the plot. I have a serious feeling that the author simply overlooked the whole paradoxes topic and wrote what she believed was best for the story.
(Which, BTW, I wouldn't call Science Fiction, because the time travel "device" - a "Genetic Alteration" - has so little of science on it that naming the cause as "Magic" would be more honest, like it happens on another story that, AFAIK*, doesn't worry much with paradoxes, Diana Gabaldon's Outlander).

But that's not necessarily a problem. A story can be very interesting, fun and/or entertaining while overlooking (or just forgetting) the scientifical foundations. That may be the case of The Time Traveler's, considering how many people seem to have enjoyed it. All that said I will put it on my TBR list. :)

*: I haven't finished the first book of the series, and just watched the first season, so my initial observation may be completely wrong.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 09, 2023, 07:58:36 PM
I have been going through the vignettes on the site. While some are a bit scary, they are amazingly well written.

It is interesting how much is conveyed in just 10 panels.  I really do like them
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Róisín on March 09, 2023, 08:30:11 PM
Gabaldon’s Outlander is interesting. I haven’t read the whole series, but what I have read was a good tale.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 10, 2023, 01:47:10 PM
Today I read "Anzac". I'm enjoying this day-by-day activity... :)

Spoiler on ANZAC:
Spoiler: show
First point is a quite valid one, even if well known: The ongoing global warming and it's consequences on the climate will create serious problems and may destabilize the relations between countries that usualy work well with each other. Bigger nations may feel tempted, out of desperation, to grab resources from weaker neighbours.
I can see something like that happening between AU and NZ, or Spain and Portugal... Yet fighting among ourselves will only make things worse, so I hope people will be wiser and instead work together.

Second point is more intriguing and, I suspect, what really motivates the story: To put our civilization in perspective, seen by the eyes of the natives of those lands that our "main civilization" occupied as it spread across the world. The last frame has it all: The native people carry the memory of what was before, and after the "wave", may be able to take back their space and rebuild.
That is probably right. It's unlikely that a civilizational colapse would wipe out all humans and, as we see in SSSS, the survivors would slowly recover. Their traditions, more connected with the land and less technology dependent, might play a relevant role in the process... As long as enough people with that knowledge survive. Again, I hope we don't find out. :)

last thoughs: It is an interesting piece. However I feel (quite subjective, of course) that ANZAC's drawings and story, while being good, are not up to the quality level of the previous ones.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 10, 2023, 03:44:16 PM
On Anzac

Spoiler: show
The author lives in NZ which is obviously reflected in this story. But similar scenarios are likely to happen everywhere. In some cases the strongest more or less conquering the weaker. But here in Europe and especially in the North, I’m rather foreseeing a flood of people from any and all of the southern regions. Both from the global South, but also from the southern parts of Europe. Coming in, not so much by force but by there just being so many who have lost their country to the heat.

At the moment the Mediterranean is working as our kill zone (we are not actively sinking the boats, at least not very often, but refusing to rescue them amounts pretty much to the same thing) but when huge swathes of land will become lethal, and at this rate they will, there will be migration on scale that is orders of magnitude greater than anything history has ever seen. Most probably won’t make it, but 10 % of a billion people is still 100 000 000 people.

I hope some peaceful solutions can be found, but I’m nowhere near to being convinced.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 10, 2023, 07:49:25 PM
Quote from: Jitter on March 10, 2023, 03:44:16 PM
On Anzac

Spoiler: show
The author lives in NZ which is obviously reflected in this story. But similar scenarios are likely to happen everywhere. In some cases the strongest more or less conquering the weaker. But here in Europe and especially in the North, I’m rather foreseeing a flood of people from any and all of the southern regions. Both from the global South, but also from the southern parts of Europe. Coming in, not so much by force but by there just being so many who have lost their country to the heat.

At the moment the Mediterranean is working as our kill zone (we are not actively sinking the boats, at least not very often, but refusing to rescue them amounts pretty much to the same thing) but when huge swathes of land will become lethal, and at this rate they will, there will be migration on scale that is orders of magnitude greater than anything history has ever seen. Most probably won’t make it, but 10 % of a billion people is still 100 000 000 people.

I hope some peaceful solutions can be found, but I’m nowhere near to being convinced.

Some thoughts:
Spoiler: show
First, I hope we don't come to that point. My optimistic side still believes humankind will grow up before things turn really ugly.

Of course we will have more people migrating, and that will stress any country or region that has a milder climate. But I don't think we will see mass migrations on that scale (tenths or hundreds of millions), mostly, I'm afraid, because if we get to that point there will be no food nor logistics to keep those masses alive. But that's also something we don't want to watch.

And way before that there's a strong possibility of active boat sinking, together with border fences everywhere. Another thing we don't want to see.

Anyway I expect a steady growth in migrations from poor countries, driven by the combination of climate change, overpopulation and insecurity. It's already happening.
But there are also positive effects, like compensating demographic issues related with an older population and, if societies manage to remain open, some mutualy beneficial cultural exchange. (I'm a half-full glass pereson, remember?) :)
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 14, 2023, 09:22:02 AM
Now I've reread "The Suit". Another intriguing take...

Thoughts on The Suit:
Spoiler: show
An horror story, definitively.

It's quite disconforting to imagine how this stranded astronaut feels as the machine inexorably tears away his body parts. Worse, there seems to be no previous warning (or available painkillers). And after all that we are left without knowledge if all that sacrifice was worth it.

But does the astronaut has any choice on that? Does he have any communication with the suit? And if he had, what would he choose? Did he make it in the end? Or the "never" means that he died before reaching a safe place? Or did he simply got insane after all that?

All that said I really like the open start (we don't know what happened before) and the open end, even if it "hurts" the readers.

It's again "dying in space may be horrible", but on steroids, because it's a slow, painfull death, but is also "how much would a person endure to survive?", supposing the astronaut had a say in that matter. If he didn't, this can also be a cautionary tale about keeping control over technology, else it may start doing unpleasant, unwanted things to us...

As someone in the comments mentioned, fans of "The Culture" series by Iain M Banks will recognize much of his short story "Descendant" on "The Suit", with some relevant differences: Descendant focus is much more on psychological issues, rather than physical ones, and there's constant communication between the user and the suit, that is a fully sentient machine and a true companion for the stranded astronaut. It also deal with other questions that I don't want to spoil... The story is part of "The State of The Art" collection of short stories, and can be easily find online.


See you for the next one, "After Life" :)

Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 14, 2023, 10:03:11 AM
The suit is one that actually bothered me somewhat. 

The story Inhospitable is like the suit in a way
Spoiler: show
Being alone like that.  There are many questions to consider.  Did he crash land on some planet and he is the only survivor? Why would he be alone?  Astronauts, i would assume would travel at least in twos.

Is he walking on a future despoiled Earth?

In the end there is only the machine...
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 14, 2023, 06:13:57 PM
Suit definitely is on the horror end of the spectrum here


Suit and Inhospitable

Spoiler: show
For me, Inhospitable (actual title in the end To Hell and Back) makes Suit easier to take. If the teo stories happen in the same universe, as may or may not be the case, then there’s hope the brain in the suit can still be preserved and restored somehow. Particularly if the “home” is near where the story ends.

But, it is an entirely horrifying tale. What if the astronaut has no choice and the suit forcibly keeps him alive as long as possible, and beyond? What if he knows there’s no escape and the end result is the same whether he just takes off the helmet to begin with, but the suit won’t allow him? Suppose he were for example a part of an exploration party that has crashed on an inhospitable planet or moon, destroying the only ship within the 300 system area. And the waiver the crew had to sign explicitly confirms there will be no rescue missions. Or he happened to be off planet when the Enemy attacked, scorching the atmosphere and crumbling everything to dust? Or for whatever reason he knows there is no possibility whatsoever to get home, or there is no home anymore. Being forced to endure several Earth months (??) of pure agony to delay the inevitable… yeah, I hope nobody wanted to sleep tonight?

Based on the final thoughts it seems the astronaut believes there is theoretically a possibility of getting home, so perhaps we can go to bed with that idea, ok?
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Linebyline on March 15, 2023, 05:47:48 PM
I actually saw Suit once before, somewhere. I think somebody posted it to Tumblr or Imgur. It's definitely a horror story.

As for the rest... You guys, I think this might not be the comic for me. I haven't read all of them, but from what I have read, either they're horror (which is fine, just not my cup of tea) or their weirdly nihilistic if not outright misanthropic. Take The Neanderthal's Secret (might be misremembering that title slightly). It's pretty heavy-handed about humanity in geeral being the bad guy. Even where that's not the case, it's still full of people living meaningless lives and dying meaningless deaths. And I don't know, I get enough of that in real life (c.f. the one about the cosmonaut). After about five or six of these, I think I'm going to take a pass on reading the rest.

I will say, though, that the artwork is consistently high-quality. I may not care for the subject matter, but I have to admire the craftsmanship.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 15, 2023, 06:32:13 PM
It’s exactly like you say it, LineByLine. It seems to me the works are the author’s outlet for letting the desperation out, the desperation he feels exactly because of the nihilism and bleakness all around. I feel the same sometimes, luckily not all the time :) I fully support your decision to skip this one, when it makes you feel worse then the wise thing is to stop!
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 16, 2023, 02:49:42 PM
Just like Jitter, I see your point, Linebyline. And passing on something you don't enjoy is completely understandable. There is so much to see, and so little time...
BTW I also saw "The Suit" before. I just don't recall where.

Well, today I read "After Life". Below are some thoughts

Spoiler: show
So this explores the possibility that some over dimensional "benefactors" could find our struggles to survive interesting enough to "collect" our minds for scientific purposes when we die.
And after those studies they kindly give us whatever paradise we wanted during our life. Forever...

It's implied that those mysterious entities do all that without asking our consent, and later without informing us of the fact that our afterlife is essentially a simulation.
And if we choose to self-terminate they simply reboot the simulation, again and again.

A bit like in "The Suit", a technologically enabled being engages in actions that affect us, and that happens beyond our control. But here there's no cautionary tale. It's not our tech.
However, just like the suit, those beings don't seem to care much if we suffer in the process. Their ends justify their means.

The "Masters" on After Life treat us like we do with guinea pigs in our labs.

We don't do our experiments to make them suffer, even being aware they endure some suffering. We even try to minimize it.
Perhaps that's one moral question the author considers relevant: "Put yourself in the place of a lab rat. How do you feel?"

I tend to agree, with the difference that, to our knowledge, lab rats are not sentient (in the sense of "I think, therefore I exist").

That leads to another frequent questions in Science Fiction: Are we sentient, in the view of some extremely advanced being? Or are we placed in the "smart animal" category? Some of the best SF stories are those able to push us outside our anthropocentric point of view. Which in turn opens space for some self-reflection :)

Another question: Why can't these all powerful entities make our simulated afterlives more interesting?
In the story it's because they use our own brain as sole source of information for our simulation.
But why would they have such limitation?
They have access to an unlimited number of brains (or souls, if you want to call it that way), and even if they don't the simulation software should be able to create new situations and new "Non-Playable Characters" easily. Damn, we can already do that on our games.

Also, why they reboot our afterlives? If we chose to terminate, why restart?
Their computational resources are unlimited? Even if they are, what would be their motivation?

Is the author trying to ask: "What would you think if you know for sure there's an actual afterlife, but it's not provided by a benevolent God, but rather a simulation ran by ultra advanced beings from another dimension?"

Or yet "If we call these being(s) God(s), if they collect our "souls" when we die and, after a brief(?) analysis, offer us the after life we always wanted, is there really a difference?"

BTW, again Iain M Banks' Culture fans will find similarities with topics that exist in the books, like the "snapshot", that's akin to a copy of someone's "mind state" in the Culture, the existence of "simulated afterlives", that is particularly relevant on "Surface Detail", and the existence of super dimensional beings.
And the reference to "Seven Higher Dimensions", that together with our usual four makes eleven dimensions, matches exactly the number of dimensions mentioned by Banks...

All that said, it's an interesting story, much less frightening than "The Suit" (unless you consider frightening dying of boredom after living thousands of years in paradise) and the art is beautiful, as usual.


Now I'm curious to see the next one...
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 20, 2023, 03:38:11 PM
Well, continuing with Bad Space Comics (https://www.badspacecomics.com/), it's time for "The Great Minds".

IMO this one has the peculiar characteristic of being (mostly) the continuation of the previous one, "After Life".

Thoughts, and Spoilers:
Spoiler: show
The great minds explains how these ultra advanced beings from a dying Universe, that is not ours, devised a strategy to gain a foothold on this younger Universe, supposedly to create the conditions for their migration to new, greener pastures...

And what, or better said who is the foothold? Humans tiny minds, that they have been molding and testing for a long time (their percepton of time is clearly different from ours). That comes to me as the revelation of why, on the previous story, there was such an interest on evaluating human minds.
And it also explains the reason for all the effort they put into caring for those minds, giving them simulated paradises (let's consider that they believe to be doing a good thing): They feel responsible for us because they, in a way, created us. (Hence the "Old Gods" in the end).

Again we don't have a very uncomfortable outcome, unless it happens for our generation to be the one the "Great Minds" decide to inhabit. Considering what we know about humankind current state I'd say there's not much to fear now or in the upcoming centuries... :)

The questions here are to a large extente the ones raised on "After Life", with the added weight of knowing our minds are, for the Great Minds / Old Gods, simply the byproduct of a process, and when this process is ready we will be discarded to leave space for them to "possess" us. Again not that frightening. We would either be erased (hopefully in a painless way) or removed to our paradise of choice.

Of course this could take a dark turn if we start questioning if all those stories about "possessions" by spirits are actually moments when some random "Great Mind" decides to take a "test drive" to see how well they can handle the current "Beta version"...  O_o

Also that image with the possessed bodies in the end with the ruins in the background reminded me of Arthur C Clarke's "Childhood's End (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood%27s_End)", even if the underlying concept is different.

In terms of art the story is very well done, as usual, and unsurprisingly shows great resemblance with "After Life".


I get the feeling that the next story, Russian Moon, will be quite different...

Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 20, 2023, 05:51:19 PM
The Great Minds

Spoiler: show
I think the author actually confirms as a response to a reader question that this is indeed part 2 for After Life.

However, note it’s not necessarily implied that the Great Minds intended to overtake an existing creature’s mind. Another interpretation could be that they will use our minds as templates only, and create new ones for themselves when they transfer here. This would be a more polite entry.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 22, 2023, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: Jitter on March 20, 2023, 05:51:19 PM
The Great Minds

Spoiler: show
I think the author actually confirms as a response to a reader question that this is indeed part 2 for After Life.

However, note it’s not necessarily implied that the Great Minds intended to overtake an existing creature’s mind. Another interpretation could be that they will use our minds as templates only, and create new ones for themselves when they transfer here. This would be a more polite entry.

Yes, that polite way is possible, and would provide a cleanner start, I suppose. :)

Well, today I read "Russian Moon" and here are my thoughts:

Spoiler: show
Russian Moon has no horror, no gross-out. It only implies that the fate of those cosmonauts is sealed (due to several technical problems) and, worse, their sacrifice, loss, and triumphs, would never be known, because their country would never admit an unsuccessful outcome.

That particular cosmonaut, however, doesn't seem troubled by her fate. I read it as if she's so fascinated by having "accomplished the mission" and to actually set foot on the moon that her imminent death is not, at least momentarily, a relevant issue. Knowing that she was the first was enough.

That makes me recall the (brilliant) speech Nixon had prepared for the eventual failure of the first Apollo landing (https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/if-the-apollo-11-astronauts-died-heres-the-speech-nixon-would-have-read).



Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace.

These brave men, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, know that there is no hope for their recovery. But they also know that there is hope for mankind in their sacrifice.

These two men are laying down their lives in mankind’s most noble goal: the search for truth and understanding.

They will be mourned by their families and friends; they will be mourned by their nation; they will be mourned by the people of the world; they will be mourned by a Mother Earth that dared send two of her sons into the unknown.

In their exploration, they stirred the people of the world to feel as one; in their sacrifice, they bind more tightly the brotherhood of man.

In ancient days, men looked at stars and saw their heroes in the constellations. In modern times, we do much the same, but our heroes are epic men of flesh and blood.

Others will follow, and surely find their way home. Man’s search will not be denied. But these men were the first, and they will remain the foremost in our hearts.

For every human being who looks up at the moon in the nights to come will know that there is some corner of another world that is forever mankind.



Now, would that Russian cover-up be possible? I'm not a great believer in conspiracy theories. Sending people to the moon was (and is) a very demanding project that would involve many people across the country. I consider possible, but unlikely they could keep it secret for a long time.

Anyway nice story. And IIRC the drawings are not only beautiful but also reflect the real soviet designs for a moon landing mission. (I'm too lazy now to go search for a link...)
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: JoB on March 23, 2023, 05:46:24 AM
Quote from: thegreyarea on March 22, 2023, 04:51:00 PM
Now, would that Russian cover-up be possible?
The USSR was able to cover up quite important disasters on the ground (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Plesetsk_launch_pad_disaster) back in its days, but:

One of the counterpoints to the "the USA never landed on the moon" conspiracy theories is that radio amateurs worldwide could, and did, pick up the spacecraft's radio transmissions, and verified that they indeed came from space, rather than being broadcast from terrestrial stations. In the same logic, for a Soviet spacecraft to go to the moon unnoticed, it would have had to maintain nigh-complete radio silence ... and the technology back then was nowhere near producing self-sufficient spacecraft, in terms of computing power to keep the systems under control.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 23, 2023, 12:22:12 PM
Quote from: JoB on March 23, 2023, 05:46:24 AM
The USSR was able to cover up quite important disasters on the ground (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Plesetsk_launch_pad_disaster) back in its days, but:

One of the counterpoints to the "the USA never landed on the moon" conspiracy theories is that radio amateurs worldwide could, and did, pick up the spacecraft's radio transmissions, and verified that they indeed came from space, rather than being broadcast from terrestrial stations. In the same logic, for a Soviet spacecraft to go to the moon unnoticed, it would have had to maintain nigh-complete radio silence ... and the technology back then was nowhere near producing self-sufficient spacecraft, in terms of computing power to keep the systems under control.
Yes, they were able... for some time. But sooner or later most things surfaced. And the bigger they are the harder it gets.
Sending a manned ship to the moon took the USA a lot of effort. Many thousands of scientists, contractors, etc... were involved. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program#Costs) states that "At its peak, it employed over 400,000 employees and contractors around the country". They had to develop a huge rocket, the ship, the landing module, the instalations and labs and factories for all that... It's hard to believe any nation would be able to keep so many people silent about such a large thing.

(That's, by the way, one point that many conspiracy theories fail to address. As a friend of mine once said: "Just try to have ten people agree on a subject, and to keep silent about it, and you will understand..." :) )

In the American moon landing case, another great proof that it did happen is that the USSR, that was watching closely, would never, ever shut up if it didn't...
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 23, 2023, 01:49:49 PM
Just one thing to add here: see For All Mankind (Apple TV+, available to buy or rent on Google Play and Amazon.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 23, 2023, 03:57:58 PM
Thanks for the tip, Jitter! I've already heard good things about that show. I'll try to see it. :)

Just read "Don't look back / The Flood"

Thoughts and spoilers:
Spoiler: show
This one is not in space :)

It's main message is that we, or most likely the coming generations, will pay a high price for our lack of action to stop climate change.

 And the knowledge of that danger makes us hypocrites when we say that we love our children and would do anything for them. And that's the most uncomfortable par of this story. Much more than the drowning of the protagonist.

Sadly there's some truth in that. Societies and individuals are trying to find a balance, reducing negative impacts on the environment while keeping, as much as possible, business as usual. Humankind still don't see the danger as high enough to justify more extreme changes. :(

Will this strategy of slow, almost painless changes be enough to prevent the worst? Those future generations will find out. And what the comic shows, in a quite effective way, is what one of these persons will think if in the end it's not enough.

I suppose the author is doing that as a contribution to avoid that. Many times apocalyptic fiction (nuclear war, man-made pandemics, nanotech going awry, AI uprising, etc...) is used as a cautionary tale of future events we don't want to happen.

All that said I'm not sure he chose the best situation. This kind of massive wave entering the city is usually related with tsunamis, that are driven by forces beyond human influence, so it's hard to connect it with climate change.
It's not even the result of a violent storm, that could be associated with global warming (because its stated that the sky is clear).
The only hypothesis that comes to mind would be the sudden rupture of a dam (defectively) done. A dam that would exist to prevent the rising ocean to flood the city. It's too indirect, and  wouldn't be my choice. I would go for a very long drought and/or a big fire.

Anyway it's well done and carries a relevant message. :) Let's see the next one.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: JoB on March 24, 2023, 03:47:22 AM
Quote from: thegreyarea on March 23, 2023, 03:57:58 PM
tsunamis, that are driven by forces beyond human influence
... usually (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatsunami#1963:_Vajont_Dam,_Italy) ... :3
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 24, 2023, 07:29:33 AM
Quote from: JoB on March 24, 2023, 03:47:22 AM
... usually (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatsunami#1963:_Vajont_Dam,_Italy) ... :3
Well, that was a pretty big "oops!"...

BTW...
Spoiler: show
There's also this kind of tsunami (https://futurism.com/the-byte/new-russian-weapon-radioactive-tsunamis), but I believe if it worked the effects would be at a very local scale. Earthquakes cause tsunamis because they displace large ammounts of land, that in turn displace the water. An atomic blast would vaporize much of the water, and a lot of energy would be absorbed. Using the same weapon above ground would be much more effective. As a physicist said (https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-doomsday-weapon-submarine-nuke-2018-4#:~:text="A%20well-placed%20nuclear%20weapon,Tohoku%20earthquake%20and%20tsunami%20that): It "would be a stupid waste of a perfectly good nuclear weapon." So it's more a thing to scare people, or to prove some tech prowees, than a useful weapon.


Still about "Don't Look Back"
Spoiler: show
I feel the "Behind you, silence" as a mistake. How could it be silent? There would be people screaming, things being smashed and broken, the roar of the wave... Not that it spoils the story, but still...


I read "Behind your eyes (https://www.badspacecomics.com/post/behind-your-eyes)". Here are some (brief, I promise) thoughts:
Spoiler: show
Another one that's not in space! :)

Interesting concept. What if our conscious mind is just something secondary, a useful tool to the true owner that resides deep into our brain?. A mere puppet?

It may sound disturbing, but that would only mean that our subconscious minds are out of reach. It's still us, just working in mysterious ways, and not bothering to inform the conscious part. It would mean that we don't fully know ourselves, which is probably true to everybody to some degree.

(And that dissociation between conscious and unconscious minds of course may be very serious in psycological diseases, like when killers blame the voices inside their heads.)

The anatomy-style drawings are intended to be disturbing? Didn't had that effect on me, but then I already saw too many of those... And the bugs... I guess the author is not really comfortable with them... :)

All that said, good, but not my preferred piece. Next!




Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 24, 2023, 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: thegreyarea on March 24, 2023, 07:29:33 AM
Well, that was a pretty big "oops!"...

I read "Behind your eyes (https://www.badspacecomics.com/post/behind-your-eyes)". Here are some (brief, I promise) thoughts:


I hate the wasps.  There are a few in his comics that have them buzzing about

SHUDDER!
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 24, 2023, 01:19:22 PM
Behind Your Eyes isn’t among my favorites either. It sort of looks like he had an idea that in itself is already horror, but then the art tries (too much, in my opinion) to add horrible elements on top of it, and it ends up going over the top. There’s a saying in Swedish, ”tårta på tårta”, literally ”cake on cake” meaning that trying to add more of the same doesn’t make the thing better. So Beyond Your Eyes is tårta på tårta on horror.

As foe Don’t Look Back, it’s thought provoking! In the words of Meat Loaf, I would do annnnnything for love but I won’t do that. Let’s hope we are not those parents.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 25, 2023, 06:24:46 PM
That's it, dmeck. many people feels uncomfortable with insects. I strongly suspect the author of Bad Space feels that way too. Myself... I don't love them, but they don't freak me out either.

Jitter, cake on cake is funny. And it fits well in Behind Your Eyes.
In Brazil the equivalent is "chover no molhado", which means "rain over wet" or "rain over soaked" and is used in the same sense of uselessly adding more of something where it already exists.

So today I read "Empires". I liked it! :) Here are some thoughts:

Spoiler: show
This one has space! :D

And it's quite uplifting... until the last part, where we are reminded that's not us, but rather a parallel Universe.

Since we are on popular sayings, the Portuguese/Brazilian one for this is "apanhar com um balde de água fria", which means "(to be) hit with a bucket of cold water"...

Also no horror, no gross-out, no monsters, which feels a bit... off. The Minotaur only show up as an image, could very well be a statue, and the Labyrinth is just a metaphor to... the perilous path that a civilization has to work out to reach a bright Future?

The idea that if a vulcanic eruption hasn't happened Crete would keep growing and mix with Greece, and therefore Rome would never rise is very interesting. If that would means no Christianity and nos Dark Ages is a larger jump. But that's the way it happened on that Universe, so let's roll with it.

The overall message is "if the civilizations from the past valued women as equals we would be in a much better place today". It's very hard to disagree with that, although I'm not so sure that it would necessarily means a History with so much less slavery and so much more democracy. There are so many factors to consider that it all becomes quite speculative.

Anyway I'm sure we would have a better World if there was more gender equality. :)

The drawings are very beautiful, as usual. And I felt very tempted to write a continuation where the people of that brighter Universe finds a way to cross to ours... I'll think about it.


Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 26, 2023, 06:33:46 AM
Empires

Spoiler: show
Grey, could you elaborate why at the end you feel like it’s a wet dishcloth to the face (Finnish saying, meaning an unpleasant and surprising thing that ruins something) in the end, when it states in the very beginning that this is an alternative timeline? Or is it the statement how we are among the ones that did choose the pit?

The entire thing makes me sad. Yes, it’s an uplifting thought but also leads to regret the lost chances. I agree with you Grey that it becomes extremely speculative very fast, which of course is the point too. It makes sense that science would develop faster with all brain resources in use.

But where would that science go? Would these humans strive for the stars at all? Or would the humanity focus on making this world better, and simultaneously a much slower population growth would decrease the urge to find new frontiers? Of course, this is about parallel worldS so this one went here and no Christianity, in other ones there were Cretes saved too but different outcomes. You don’t need to go very far back for the possibilities to be so varied that it confuses the mind, all the way to 1600 BC is hopeless to even imagine.

Um, yeah, back to the point. Maybe this one thing could have made our world much better. Or maybe something else would have come along and ruined it, 300 years from ”no Thera eruption”. Whatever the timeline reasons, we have lost and keep losing such immeasurable potential of the human mind.

I can’t put this well. It’s both uplifting and heartbreaking.



BTW there’s a new story, went up on Friday!
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 26, 2023, 03:43:00 PM
Quote from: Jitter on March 26, 2023, 06:33:46 AM
Empires

Spoiler: show
Grey, could you elaborate why at the end you feel like it’s a wet dishcloth to the face (Finnish saying, meaning an unpleasant and surprising thing that ruins something) in the end, when it states in the very beginning that this is an alternative timeline? Or is it the statement how we are among the ones that did choose the pit?

The entire thing makes me sad. Yes, it’s an uplifting thought but also leads to regret the lost chances. I agree with you Grey that it becomes extremely speculative very fast, which of course is the point too. It makes sense that science would develop faster with all brain resources in use.

But where would that science go? Would these humans strive for the stars at all? Or would the humanity focus on making this world better, and simultaneously a much slower population growth would decrease the urge to find new frontiers? Of course, this is about parallel worldS so this one went here and no Christianity, in other ones there were Cretes saved too but different outcomes. You don’t need to go very far back for the possibilities to be so varied that it confuses the mind, all the way to 1600 BC is hopeless to even imagine.

Um, yeah, back to the point. Maybe this one thing could have made our world much better. Or maybe something else would have come along and ruined it, 300 years from ”no Thera eruption”. Whatever the timeline reasons, we have lost and keep losing such immeasurable potential of the human mind.

I can’t put this well. It’s both uplifting and heartbreaking.



BTW there’s a new story, went up on Friday!
Still about Empires, and answering to Jitter:

Spoiler: show
Yes, it's the statement in the end that reminds we are among the ones that chose the pit.

Because in the beginning it's clear we're talking about a parallel reality, but being an optimistic person I tend to assume it's our Alternate Universe. It's how we could be if...

But that final statment says it's not about us. We are the same, and even that fictional door is closed slammed on our face. They did well, they found a brighter path, we didn't, and remain stuck in our problems...

Well. we didn't... so far, because the optmistic Grey thinks: Hey, we had made many mistakes, already paid dearly for some, and will keep paying in the foreseeable future, but we also did many good things, and with luck, endurance and hard work we may reach that brighter path. :)

Also I notice that your Finnish saying "wet dishcloth to the face" is still a lot less uncomfortable than being hit by ours "bucket of cold water"...  ;D


And I noticed the new story too. And read it... I'll get there, but I think it's better to keep reading them in chronological order, don't you agree?

Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on March 26, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Yeah, the newest story seems to relate to some of others. My note wasmeant to alert others who may have read all the stories and already left the site behind.
Title: Re: Bad Space comics (spoilers)
Post by: Jitter on May 31, 2023, 04:26:08 PM
So here’s finally there Bad Space thread, please carry on with the story by story discussion.