Poll

What do you think the state of things is beyond Scandinavia?

More of the Silent World: Trolls, beasts and giants everywhere
7 (16.7%)
A few groups of humans, but mostly wilderness
14 (33.3%)
USA and other superpowers are relatively intact
0 (0%)
Scorched Earth: nothing, not even grosslings, is alive
0 (0%)
Plenty of places like Scandinavia, but isolated
21 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Voting closed: July 03, 2015, 03:28:37 PM

Author Topic: Survivor communities outside the known world  (Read 230001 times)

Noah O.

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #255 on: October 16, 2014, 05:07:01 PM »
Depends on the genre. If it's "depressive suicidal ambient black metal", "progressive technical modern death core" or progressive ambient blackend thrash metal" (or anything else using more than two adjectives) I would assume it puts them to a kind of rage which only could be stopped by a thick bullet rain.

This always kind of got me... wouldn't "bullet hail" be more fitting than bullet rain? Unless your bullets were made out of molten lead, it's not really much of a rain.

kjeks

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #256 on: October 16, 2014, 05:23:51 PM »
This always kind of got me... wouldn't "bullet hail" be more fitting than bullet rain? Unless your bullets were made out of molten lead, it's not really much of a rain.

Ummm. I think my english is bad enough on times for just mixing rain and hail. I mean in German it would be the same "Kugelhagel" - Hail of Bullets.
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BrainBlow

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #257 on: October 16, 2014, 05:45:48 PM »
Even if trolls go to water to cool off, they still need to get to those places, and that makes the hunter's job much easier.
Rather than the norwegian "Walk through the wild, look for prints, signs of nests, be careful", the desert hunter's is "These places have water, go here every once in a while and destroy the trolls there." Plus any troll that wonders into human settlements will probably not be in a good physical condition to cause too much harm.
You're assuming that any human society will survive long enough for hunters to ever become a thing when we're talking about the complete eradication of humanity within months.


I see society in the Maghreb and other middle eastern areas breaking down to what they were before any european labels were forced on them: Simply tribes surviving on their own in whatever location they were in.
While tribes are still a major influence in much of the middle-east, the majority of them are completely urbanized, or based in rural districts still heavily dependent on the nearby existing society.
And you're incorrect in assuming these areas were simply independent tribes "before Europeans".
Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization, and had great cities long before even the Roman empire existed, and has continuously had city-centered civilizations there for thousands of years.


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JaoLao

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #258 on: October 16, 2014, 06:33:47 PM »
Quote from: MayaBird
It's a good point that there's very incredibly little that we (or the characters in the story, really) know about how the monsters beyond actually operate.  People just happened to pick up that fire+freezing=dead and electricity+bullets=dead and cats=good and kept doing that because they had something that worked and probably didn't have the resources or people to risk figuring out if anything else worked.  One thing that may keep Our Motley Heroes in funds enough to explore might be that they learn some important thing about how trolls or whatever operate that's really obvious and easy in hindsight, only no one was able to figure it out before, and that makes cleansing easier. 

Heck, could be they accidentally discover (after crashing through a former perfume shop maybe) that a particular smell repels trolls (maybe not giants or beasts, but trolls), but people can spray their trains, boats, walls, tanks, whatever with it and make travel and exploration easier.  Step 1 of cleansing would be "unleash the stink bombs."  And then further travels to distant lands find people who discovered the scent thing decades ago.

Someone gets me weeeee

I like that a lot. But I sure hope it's either a very VERY small group of surivors living in a huge perfume and cologne shop, or that they learned what exactly in those perfumes works and are able to get the same effect (maybe a weaker version) from herbs or something. Otherwise, that's a pretty visual health bar: as soon as the last bottle of perfume goes down, so do we heh.

I wonder how mythology and/or other sources will influence weaknesses of trolls... Fire and acid is the D&D way of dealing with them, but I think that's completely made up?. Would salt/silver and their traditional associations with cleansing of evil have any effect on the spirits of the dead? It seems a bit too out there for the mostly analogical world Minna's been building, but then again, there are mages... huh

I somehow think Braidy will teach us a lot about surviving. I'm completely guessing and pulling this out of a random hat, heh.

JoB

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #259 on: October 16, 2014, 06:48:43 PM »
This always kind of got me... wouldn't "bullet hail" be more fitting than bullet rain? Unless your bullets were made out of molten lead, it's not really much of a rain.
LEO calls it a "hail of bullets", but still fails to point out when hail and/or rain started to fall horizontally. 8)
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Richard Weir

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #260 on: October 16, 2014, 08:04:07 PM »
"Hail of bullets" is a perfectly good English phrase. Perhaps it refers to the sound, and bullets striking armour sound like hail striking, say, a car or thin roof; certainly, I first came across it in the context of a tank crew hearing a hail of bullets striking their tank.
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Peeves

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Re: I expect that USA would be able to withstand the rash disaster
« Reply #261 on: October 17, 2014, 10:21:33 AM »
Sounds like American foreign policy.

As an American citizen, i feel bound by my redneck pride to give a stalwart defense to the dignity of my country:

this IS the American foreign policy. you hit that nail on the head.

P.S.: if the rash ever came to the US, the is no doubt in my  mind that we would all die horrible deaths and then be morphed onto giant, slobbering piles of necrotic tissue.

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Deadlander

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #262 on: October 18, 2014, 02:17:45 AM »
So, at long last, I have a moderately polished outline of what shape survivors in North America's Pacific Northwest might be in:
http://imgur.com/a/98rkU#0

Survival rates are based most closely off of Norway; as I went through the research for this, I kept running into references and parallels to the climate, culture, geography, mineralogy, ecosystem, etc. between the two regions.  Note how, similarly (but not particularly intentionally) to Norway but distinct from Sweden, Bornholm, or even Finland, the survivor enclaves may hover around 2-3000 for the larger cities, and show a more level decrease in size for further ranks, compared to the intense clusters of people in Mora, for instance.  That pattern is replicated in Kodiak, however, much as Haida Gwaii's people live in loose concentrations that echo Bornholm.

My major assumptions:
  • All cetaceans and marine mammals are susceptible to the Rash.  Bats and other flying/gliding mammals lose their strength rapidly when infected, and their flight entirely when mutated.
  • Intensely-social marine mammals are especially vulnerable to becoming the giants of the sea - Leviathans.  All beasts maintain/grow their population, either by a secondary ecosystem or individual longevity.
  • The people of Haida Gwaii have managed to keep their islands relatively clear of infection, and an aggressive focus on clearing the immediately surrounding seas has paid off
  • Any city with an initial size of over 10,000 people or in the immediate, easily-commuted vicinity (with rare exception) will have been exposed before travel was shut down, and have succumb completely since.  The exceptional cases may hae gotten a tiny fraction of (immune) survivors out.
  • To make inroads into a dead city, a force of at least a twentieth of the cit's dead is required to even establish a foothold.  We won't see 250,000 soldiers marching on Vancouver any time soon.
  • Population doubling times for an area post-Year-0 are approximately 30 years in an unsafe, but cleansed, survivor community (~2.3% growth, an average fertility of sorts - life goes on!).  Resource-rich areas like Graham Island can see faster doubling (~3% growth, similar to modern developing countries), while resource-poor (Iceland), developed (modern developed countries), or highly-threatened (San Juan) areas may take longer (~1% growth).
  • The need for food, fuel, and materials dominates movements between safe areas, as well as pushes into the Dead Lands (or Silent World, to you Scandinavians).
  • Some groups have acquired varying degrees of what, for all the world, appears to be magic; these abilities are based more upon culture than lineage, and present a steady, beneficial effect, rather than any sort of absolute advantage. (e.g. the Benedictine Nuns of Shaw Island, the mages of the Haida/Heiltsuk, Tlingit, Lummi, Nuu-Chaa-Nulth, and Kwakwaka'wakw)
  • The season at the start of the outbreak was outside the summer tourist peak, but perhaps at the periphery of that season.  I couldn't find a date in re-reading the comic...
  • Cougars share the immunity of housecats, and innately resist troll incursions.  Given the motivation to do so, humans can breed slightly more docile individuals suitable for one-man scouting operations or small-group cleansing by establishing some variant of a cub-adult relationship between a puma and their handler.

I acknowledge that I may have spent far too much time on it, but there is an entire spreadsheet behind the numbers and outlines I've come up with, and some headcanon for each nation that has popped into my mind as I went about writing this, which I might share when I have more sleep in the tank.

Hrollo

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #263 on: October 18, 2014, 08:11:48 AM »
This is what scientists describe as "pretty wicked cool", Deadlander!
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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #264 on: October 18, 2014, 09:04:39 AM »
So, at long last, I have a moderately polished outline of what shape survivors in North America's Pacific Northwest might be in:
http://imgur.com/a/98rkU#0

Whoaaaa, that's awesome.
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Mayabird

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #265 on: October 18, 2014, 09:18:30 AM »
That is so awesome that I want it to be become canon somehow.

...is it, is it alright for me to use the c-word?

Aierdome

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #266 on: October 18, 2014, 10:56:39 AM »
Hello,
first time poster, so I beg for understanding  :)

Anyway, I'd like to make case for Poland. It was mentioned before, but not in detail, so here you are:

http://mapa.zumi.pl/_d/mapy/polska.png

I'm afraid it's not the best map I could find, so if something's unclear, help yourself with Google maps.

First of all, we can write off Szczecin, Gda?sk, Warszawa and Kraków with their whereabouts. First two are major ports, so well - dead. Warszawa, as capital city one million strong, is double dead. Kraków lies in the mountains and as such could have some protection, but it's THE tourist destination in Poland. So I wouldn't count on it.

The pros, then: first of all, we've got a lot of rural areas, which makes it hard for trolls to hide, and easy for small groups of people to feed. Second, there's a lot of small cities (5-15 houses) that have little to barely any contact with outside and are pretty much self-sufficient.

As to wildlife, the only big predator in Poland is linx, and that's a feline. There are some wolves in the mountains south, but I doubt you could make more than one giant if you amassed them all.

Of course, the biggest problem would be refugees, especially from Germany to the west, so I don't see much chance for any community on the west bank of Vistula river (it's not very visible on this map. It goes through Kraków, makes a big half-circle east of Kielce, then goes through Warszawa, Bygdoszcz and Gda?sk). Vistula and Odra (it makes our west border) would be big refugee-stoppers, limiting number of potential Rash carriers that'd make it to the east.

So, to sum up, possible places of survival in Poland would be:
- Mazury: on the map, those are the lakes east of Olsztyn, and there's a lot more of them than map would indicate. People there live mostly by fishing and some tourism, and there's a lot of smallish islands. Moreover, everybody there has yachts of motorboats.
- West of Rzeszów: it's a valley surrounded by mountains, and not very popular with visitors.
- Tatry mountains: it's this vaguely triangular shape extending southeast. The highest mountains in Poland, with snow every winter and few and scarce forests. There were people living there for centuries. The green patches on the map are hala, or the giant mountainside meadows. OTOH, people there live by tourism and sheep breeding, so that's kind of a con.
- Katowice region: seeing how it's on the west of Vistula and on one of the main highways, it may seem strange, but consider that it's also a major coal, iron and other metals mining place, as well as main steel- and ironworks of Poland, which makes it capable of churning out tech and equipment as necessary. On the con side, it's the best connected and the densest-populated region in Poland, so maybe not...

In general, main cons would be unreliable winter and summer (much like in Britain) and fact that Poles generally don't have guns. On the pros, Poles as a nation are survivalists and McGyvers (no kidding here), and have some talent to work without government input, which, following the societal collapse, is very useful. There's also historical precedent: find some maps of Black Death spread in medieval Europe  :D
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BrainBlow

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #267 on: October 18, 2014, 02:08:52 PM »
So, at long last, I have a moderately polished outline of what shape survivors in North America's Pacific Northwest might be in:
http://imgur.com/a/98rkU#0
That is super cool! I wish I had the photoshop skills to make one of these.


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Richard Weir

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #268 on: October 18, 2014, 03:06:37 PM »
Hello,
first time poster, so I beg for understanding  :)

Hello and welcome!

Quote
Anyway, I'd like to make case for Poland...

That's a well-argued case, and looks reasonable to me. A good first post. :)
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Noah O.

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #269 on: October 18, 2014, 04:34:39 PM »
So, at long last, I have a moderately polished outline of what shape survivors in North America's Pacific Northwest might be in:
http://imgur.com/a/98rkU#0


While I can't deny that this is pretty badass, how in the world did you get the time to do this kind of thing???