Poll

What do you think the state of things is beyond Scandinavia?

More of the Silent World: Trolls, beasts and giants everywhere
7 (16.7%)
A few groups of humans, but mostly wilderness
14 (33.3%)
USA and other superpowers are relatively intact
0 (0%)
Scorched Earth: nothing, not even grosslings, is alive
0 (0%)
Plenty of places like Scandinavia, but isolated
21 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Voting closed: July 03, 2015, 03:28:37 PM

Author Topic: Survivor communities outside the known world  (Read 231902 times)

snotra

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #750 on: June 15, 2015, 11:58:47 AM »
Well, the map was compiled by a Skald, so it may be that there are other communities in Britain, the Icelanders, and by extension, the other Nordics, don't know about them and they are not in a state where they can contact the outside world.
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Vafhudr

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #751 on: June 15, 2015, 12:07:27 PM »
I think that in evaluating what and who would survive we should not use what Minna has said as the last word - I think she has blacked out whole swath of the world not because it would make sense from the perspective of the disease spread as much as for dramatic reasons. She wanted to write a story about a zombie plague in Scandinavia, the whole steeped in the local lore. So while in-story they are blacked out, I think it's more because it would detract from the focus more then "it's impossible anyone survived here". Consider most zombie stories - even those that pretend to a sense of global disaster, focus always revolves around a set of a few characters or a specific geographic location. How other people fare is usually summed up in a sentence or two or left to the viewer's imagination.

Couple that with the in-story's commitment to avoid any contact with the silent world and instead of the blackness suggesting no survivor it's more like a fog of war in some games - we just don't know what's the situation out there. Most population, with modern infrastructure having collapsed and monsters roaming about, would probably not be too keen on reaching out too far from there safe zones. Even within the known nations, it's basically Sweden, and possibly the Danes, that are spearheading expansion. Everyone else would rather stay home and focus on what they have.

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Caledfwlch

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #752 on: June 15, 2015, 12:20:20 PM »
Except for Iceland it seems. But they only make a point of going to see their old buddies far as we know.

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #753 on: June 15, 2015, 05:27:05 PM »
Those sea routes we see on that world map pass clean through the Shetlands. So either she never thought about the possibility of survivors there or she just went "Probably killed by refugees trying to get to Iceland". Also could have gone "not relevant to my interests, not worth the effort"
You might want to note that in the World Map, two islands of the Shetlands archipelago ARE color-coded as cleansed areas.
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Caledfwlch

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #754 on: June 16, 2015, 06:54:19 AM »
You might want to note that in the World Map, two islands of the Shetlands archipelago ARE color-coded as cleansed areas.
http://sssscomic.wikia.com/wiki/Shetland

Huh you're right.
Hard to notice but you're right.

I'd wager they speak Icelandic or something these days though instead of their proper language.

kjeks

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #755 on: June 16, 2015, 10:44:37 AM »
In regards to England. The southeast would be gone in its entirety. London would just be essentially one gigantic troll monster thing, going there would be like tearing off all your skin and jumping into shark infested waters. [...]. If high heat is universally good for trolls then the whole of England may wind up ravaged.

What would stop trolls going over to scottland? It is not known for really cold winters in comparison to scandinavia or the alps for example.
Your image of a giant beast blop covering london is amusing as well as scary. Imagine how İstanbul would fare  :o

Wales would probably do pretty well. Southern Wales (especially Cardiff) would be troll country but central and northern Wales would be pretty safe due to a winning combo of difficult terrain, spread out sparse population and frequent cold spells.

What would the welsh eat though? Same goes for Scottland. Any infested person would turn sheep and the like into trolls. Chickens are not a major ressource and getting hand on fish means climbing down the mountains.

Another problem is that Wales and Scottland are well known tourist areas. If I head to flee to some other country knowing I might die there, hey I really would opt for northern Ireland (death at the cliffs of moher or the giant's causeway, why not?), the orkneys or Wales. Also the english fleeing would try to go to these areas and I am not sure how much military is available to hold them back.


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Caledfwlch

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #756 on: June 16, 2015, 11:06:52 AM »
What would stop trolls going over to scottland? It is not known for really cold winters in comparison to scandinavia or the alps for example.

You'd be shocked how cold northern scotland can get in winter. The south of Scotland will probably be trolled up to the eyeballs especially around edinburgh. But it doesn't seem to me that trolls are incredibly inclined to roam. They seem to have nesting habits unless they come across something that they want to kill in which case they follow it.
So for the most part while some parts of northern scotland will have substantial troll populations courtesy of southern refugees the majority of northern scotland will be left almost untouched due to the sparse population and lack of transport networks (including roads) making it difficult for refugees from the more developed south to reach these mostly isolated communities.

Your image of a giant beast blop covering london is amusing as well as scary. Imagine how İstanbul would fare  :o

In my opinion one of the first things our government will do is go "oh dear those poor refugees, let them all in!" especially if its a Labour government at the time. Meaning instant widespread infection. And even if by some miracle they don't, our government will not be able to control the borders when faced with the huge numbers of refugees fleeing the plague, with London being the primary destination for them.

What would the welsh eat though? Same goes for Scottland. Any infested person would turn sheep and the like into trolls. Chickens are not a major ressource and getting hand on fish means climbing down the mountains.

There's plenty of edible plants that grow in Wales. The image of it being nothing but sheep farms while somewhat accurate is not entirely accurate.
Their primary defence though will be the unforgiving terrain in many parts of Wales. Much like it has against invading human armies it should provide a considerable deterrent to trolls who might be inclined to wander rather than nest. When they do get in, in numbers though it will probably result in the loss of an entire valley. Like when the English conquered Wales, it was done one valley at a time.

Another problem is that Wales and Scottland are well known tourist areas. If I head to flee to some other country knowing I might die there, hey I really would opt for northern Ireland (death at the cliffs of moher or the giant's causeway, why not?), the orkneys or Wales. Also the english fleeing would try to go to these areas and I am not sure how much military is available to hold them back.

In both Wales and Scotland it is more the south that is strongly associated with their touriest trades. Northern Scotland is more agricultural and northern Wales a mix of agriculture and old destitute mining towns. Not exactly places people will flock to.
What's important to remember though is population hubs, transport links and most importantly the inclinations of each regions political class and their locations.
Northern England will have few places to flee as southern Scotland will go bad fast due to their governments knack for making terrible decisions. To their south they'll have the London blob and refugees fleeing that. While they could flee west into Wales many will find that there's a few population centres between them and Wales.
So they'll be pretty dam trapped. In all probability you'll wind up with a northern line in Northern England that is relatively safe centred around Yorkshire and any old town or city with their old walls relatively intact. Then with a safe zone in southwest England where they've been shielded from refugees who fled north and refugees who fled the continent by the various channel islands.

As for Northern Ireland. Well I wager once things start going bad the IRA will be back in action almost immediately which of course means the Loyalists will be picking up arms again. Making Northern Ireland either a very safe place in the long run or a very very very bad place to ever be.

Snommelp

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #757 on: June 16, 2015, 11:19:08 AM »
I think by year 90, the valley-by-valley infection of Wales would be complete. Scotland... I'm still on the fence. I don't know enough about Scottish weather, or germ theory, or what-have-you. But I think geography is the key factor. In Fenno-Scandia, the survivor communities all seem to be populating islands and fjords, naturally protected areas. So, as it relates to Scotland, I guess the question would be: are the highlands impassable enough to protect people from beasts? The cold winters could protect them from trolls, but trolls aren't the only carriers, and the official word of Minna is that beasts and vermin can weather the weather much better.
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Koeshi

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #758 on: June 16, 2015, 11:27:44 AM »
Much as I like the idea of part of the UK surviving, as I have said before I don't see it happening.  Wales and Scotland may have a far lower population density than England, but it is still far higher than Scandinavia.  Add our warm, wet and cloudy climate into the mix and you have the perfect habitat for Trolls.  As for Anglesey, it is popular with tourists and many people have holiday homes there.  It will likely be infected before a lot of the rest of Wales.

princeofdoom

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #759 on: June 16, 2015, 12:53:15 PM »
It would be interesting to see the old Celtic spirituality coming back. I know just enough to know that it could be very interesting, and historically the Celts as a whole were pretty gender neutral on what work was done, including having women in their fighting forces. IIRC, there's at least one historically verified case where a woman led the charge of battle against the Romans, while PREGNANT.

If the Norwegians and Celts ever met up, I think they'd get along well, stereotypically or on a society level.
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kjeks

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #760 on: June 16, 2015, 01:21:54 PM »
It would be interesting to see the old Celtic spirituality coming back. I know just enough to know that it could be very interesting, and historically the Celts as a whole were pretty gender neutral on what work was done, including having women in their fighting forces. IIRC, there's at least one historically verified case where a woman led the charge of battle against the Romans, while PREGNANT.

If the Norwegians and Celts ever met up, I think they'd get along well, stereotypically or on a society level.

Oh yes indeed. Newgrange revived with spiritual powers could help the Irish as well as many hillsides where they burried clan leaders and worshipped gods. Near Sligo is such a sight, though I fear that the Irish have less a chance to make it than the scottish since there winters have been always pretty warm aside from one time I have been there. As for scottish winters... hm they never seemed that cold to me but I have not been there for a while.
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princeofdoom

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #761 on: June 16, 2015, 02:09:22 PM »
So, the few survivors from Ireland, North Ireland, Wales, England and southern Scotland all head into northern Scotland.
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kjeks

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #762 on: June 16, 2015, 02:17:36 PM »
So, the few survivors from Ireland, North Ireland, Wales, England and southern Scotland all head into northern Scotland.

And then comes the orcadian beasts and eat them all up. To live on some of the smaller Orkney isles you have to be a tough person and such will end up as most toughest troll-beast (they have cattle there, they will merge!)
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Caledfwlch

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #763 on: June 16, 2015, 07:33:02 PM »
Much as I like the idea of part of the UK surviving, as I have said before I don't see it happening.  Wales and Scotland may have a far lower population density than England, but it is still far higher than Scandinavia.  Add our warm, wet and cloudy climate into the mix and you have the perfect habitat for Trolls.  As for Anglesey, it is popular with tourists and many people have holiday homes there.  It will likely be infected before a lot of the rest of Wales.

>Many people
>Owning second homes

You mean many upper class or upper middle class people.
Not exactly many people and most of them will be seeking to leave the country and most importantly have the means to do so.

And generally speaking people tend to forget how mixed the climate is in the UK.
The climates in Wales, England and Scotland are all pretty different. With England having a very inconsistent climate of its own outside of the south east.

Overall the UK has a fairly decent chance of survival (although far from intact) but its survival will not hinge entirely on the environment like it did for the Scandinavians.
The UK's survivors will be the result of hard work, sacrifice, planning and taking advtange of any edge they can get.
Politically speaking you'd probably wind up with a lot of military dictatorships as it would be the main way for any group of people to survive, once London is gone the military would start to splinter if the royals were unable to maintain contact with them. Thus leading to them taking over groups of survivors and working to fortify their positions or move to better ones.



It would be interesting to see the old Celtic spirituality coming back. I know just enough to know that it could be very interesting, and historically the Celts as a whole were pretty gender neutral on what work was done, including having women in their fighting forces. IIRC, there's at least one historically verified case where a woman led the charge of battle against the Romans, while PREGNANT.

If the Norwegians and Celts ever met up, I think they'd get along well, stereotypically or on a society level.

You'd probably see that old celtic spirituality coming back in Wales and Ireland. Not so sure about England and Scotland since the Scots are predominantly descended from Picts and the English have their state religion that most of them don't really care about anymore.

Druids making a comeback as the Welsh & Irish mages would be funny. If only because they'd no doubt be just as mysterious now as ever. From what I recall they were known for telling the future, making potions, believed in reincarnation and of course as mentioned being overtly mysterious.
That would actually be rather cool thinking on it. Each of them being the reincarnation of a previous druid and as such despite lacking the usual fun magic they just remember loads of stuff from the old world.

No idea what the English would do. They might abandon the old world or they might double down on it and start enforcing their state religion again.
As for the Scots, well I wouldn't really want to think about what they might do. No source paints the picts in a pleasant light.

Koeshi

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #764 on: June 17, 2015, 04:48:16 AM »
>Many people
>Owning second homes

You mean many upper class or upper middle class people.
Not exactly many people and most of them will be seeking to leave the country and most importantly have the means to do so.

Upper and upper middle class together still combines to a large number of people.  As for leaving the country where would they go?  And how would they have the means to do so?  I think you will find it is a lot more common to own a holiday home than private international transport.

All in all I just don't see Britain surviving.  As I mentioned before the climate is pretty much perfect for those infected by the Rash, we have a  higher population density and a lower proportion of people with military training.