Survivor communities outside the known world

[Blackfrost]

I rather doubt that we in the U.S. would be any more or better prepared for the rash disaster than any other nation.  We tend to be arrogant, and assume that we'll handle most any situation better than the rest of the world, but in general I think that's mostly hogwash.

Urban areas would, of course, be worse than decimated.  Those who didn't get turned into trolls, beasts, and giants would be killed by them.  One assumes that at least some of them would be intelligent enough to camp the supermarkets and other food source sites.  Also, with the power / water / sewage infrastructure gone, it'd be difficult to find water and hiding places would be...obvious to sensitive noses, unless extremely well camouflaged as to scent.  Which is, frankly, not something someone in the modern world really thinks all that much about.

Small towns and villages wouldn't be much better off, if at all so.

There would, of course, be a lot of dead feral cats, however, even despite their immunity:  Most or all other mammals would be infected and transformed or dead.  Yes, there'd be birds, but the impact of the ferals (and the domestics which have enough of a clue to actually survive without humans) upon it would be pretty devastating as well.

As to things in rural areas, and the survivalists:  Most livestock would fall victim to the plague, if not all of it.  That would leave crops, but it'd be extremely dangerous to farm, and trying to keep the fields safe and disinfected would be hellishly difficult.  One of the things that the 'known world' in this story has going for it is that, generally, the sites with survivors are small and reasonably difficult for trolls, beasts, and giants to get to.  There might be islands in the U.S. (I'm thinking of Drummond Island, Bois Blanc Island, and Mackinac Island, in the Great Lakes.) which retain some uninfected human population, but life would be extremely primitive, there.  And, of course, the survivalist compounds aren't, generally speaking, designed nor prepared for this sort of a catastrophe.  They're designed for economic and / or governmental collapse.  All the guns and razor wire in the world aren't going to prevent the trolls and giants from visiting for very long.  Guns don't necessarily work against them, very well, and ammunition's going to run out without a ready source of gunpowder, even with reloading.  The challenges, just to keep people safe, fed, and uninfected, would be immense.  And survivalists aren't known to be the cooperative type.

Finally, the whole nuke-fest, as described above, is pretty much a non-starter, save in video game terms.  Even granted that the missiles, silos, and computers would still be working after not being maintained for ninety years, triggering the whole thing off would result in a 'Nuclear Winter' scenario, which would likely kill-off whatever uninfected life had managed to survive.  I don't even want to think about the problems from fallout, alone, much less the climatological effect of the soot, smoke, and dust this scenario would launch into the stratosphere.  We're talking about ice-age analog climatological changes, here, which would happen extremely rapidly.  More rapidly than anyone would be able to prepare for. 

[BrainBlow]

I think if there is anything "poetic" about the grander world in this story, it is that might nations like the US and Russia wouldn't go out in a great blaze of glory, but with a whimper.

[ThisCat]

I think if there is anything "poetic" about the grander world in this story, it is that might nations like the US and Russia wouldn't go out in a great blaze of glory, but with a whimper.

Russia probably has surviving colonies, but no centralized government.

[Noah O.]

Top Ten Places to be when the Apocalypse finally comes

1. Siberia. That place is big.
2. Madagascar. Because at Day 203918, it's still not infected.
3. Texas. Enough guns here to take over a small country.
4. Pitcairn Islands. There are 48 people there as of 2012. Even if there was an outbreak, it would only spread to 48 people.
5. Iceland. We all saw what they do to tourists.
6. NORAD. A bunker buried in a mountain, which is within a mountain range, which is in the middle of a continent.
7. Japan. I'm pretty sure that by the time of the story, it'll be entirely populated by robots.
8. Antarctica. "Hey guys! I heard that you have a crazy rash thing going on over there! Guys?"
9. North Korea. Because there is zero chance that an epidemic could get in there.
10. Narnia. Because as long as you have three siblings, and you all are 50/50 boys and girls, you're basically royalty.

[Noah O.]

A few naval ships of whatever countries might have struck out for or crashed on islands or other remote locations here and there hoping for a safe haven.  Who knows?  Further explorations to Greenland or the Azores might find an isolated and remote community sheltered by the hulk of a beached aircraft carrier.

You make it sound as if aircraft carriers are large whales that launch supersonic attack aircraft.

[BrainBlow]

1. Siberia. That place is big.

Too big, too cold. Some pockets of survivors, maybe, but those pockets would not be made up of the everyman.

2. Madagascar. Because at Day 203918, it's still not infected.

We don't know that, and Madagascar is too hot to manage if an outbreak does occur.

3. Texas. Enough guns here to take over a small country.

Too hot.

6. NORAD. A bunker buried in a mountain, which is within a mountain range, which is in the middle of a continent.

Nothing to survive on.

8. Antarctica. "Hey guys! I heard that you have a crazy rash thing going on over there! Guys?"

Same point as above.

9. North Korea. Because there is zero chance that an epidemic could get in there.

North-Korea is nowhere near as tightly closed as you think. North-Korea even has about 4-5K tourists every year, and the North-Korea/China border has many mostly unguarded spots, and many smugglers.
It also does nothing to prevent infected mammals, and NK is already a starving country heavily reliant on foreign aid to not fall to a massive famine.

[Fimbulvarg]

1. Siberia. That place is big.

Too big, too cold. Some pockets of survivors, maybe, but those pockets would not be made up of the everyman.

It's possible to get some limited grain and potato crops as long as you stay out of the subpolar severe winter (Köppen-classification label Dfd) and subpolar dry winter (Dwd) belts in Northern and Eastern Siberia, even though winter temperatures are in the range of -30 degrees. Emphasis on limited here, calling it the number one survival spot is controversial at best. People would be living on the edge of subsistence, provided they even survive the transition from modern life to stone age life. Further south than that and you are in the heavily populated arid regions of the Stans of many names (Uzbekistan, Afghanistan etc.), where isolation is less likely.

[JoB]

It also does nothing to prevent infected mammals, and NK is already a starving country

NK border guard: "Come heeeere lunchie lunchie lunchie ... that's seven fine legs you have there ..."

[Fimbulvarg]

NK border guard: "Come heeeere lunchie lunchie lunchie ... that's seven fine legs you have there ..."

"I'm not feeling to good but I better go to that parade anyways so that the Juche idea can grow stronger!"

[Noah O.]

"I'm not feeling to good but I better go to that parade anyways so that the Juche idea can grow stronger!"

And before you know it, absolutely nothing changes because everybody's to starved to care about the epidemic.

[Raya]

I’ve been thinking about Britain’s current status in the Silent World. In theory Britain should be in a similar if not stronger position to Iceland: it’s a small, cold island with enough natural resources to keep civilisation running, a strong national identity and the locals are famed for having the Blitz Spirit. Unfortunately it also has a high population density, excellent transport links and a ruddy big tunnel connecting it to the continent, so once the Rash took hold it probably swept through like wildfire, hence why according to the map Britain is part of the Silent World.

But, compared to other European nations, native Britons are genetically very close to Scandinavians thanks to centuries of settlement and the Danelaw. This suggests to me that the level of immunity is similar to that of the Nordic countries. So give or take the non-native population and deaths caused by the collapse of civilisation, this could imply at least half a million survivors (Great Britain has more than double the population of all the Nordic countries combined). Combined with food supplies and infrastructure you’d think survivors would be able to contact the outside world and be part of the known world- so what’s going on?

Horrible Beasties[/u]

Britain no longer has any large predators, so there’s no infected bears or wolves to worry about. Beasts would have to deal with both the climate and the sheer hordes of cats everywhere (8.5 million registered pets, unknown numbers of feral/unregistered ones), so would be manageable. If anything the population crash would massive reduce the numbers of vermin as they subsist on humanity’s wasteful behaviour. A major problem would be zoo animals, and I can easily see breeding groups of beasts taking control of certain areas of the country- gorillas and apes in the East Midlands, white lions in the West Midlands, tigers in the Isle of Wight etc.

The main threat in post-Rash Britain? Trolls and giants. Remember what I was saying about high population densities? What do you think is going to be the end result of 50+ million people living in close proximity becoming infected? Trolls and giants are going to be much more common than in Scandinavia and make the cities/large towns no-go areas. Which leads to…

Society Structure

So we’ve got a large population that have been forced out of the cities and are in need of defence against large monsters slithering about at night. What’s the obvious solution for such a historic nation?

Castles, aww yeahh!

I can see British society as having been forced back to mediaeval levels. The populace are based around fortified castles, farming and scavenging the land around for food and supplies before retreating inside the walls at night as protection against the frequent troll/giant attacks. Trade is limited and each fiefdom stands as a largely independent entity. The reason Britain hasn’t contacted the outside world is simply because it’s unable to- the population centres are isolated and beset, more concerned with survival than expansion. Food, fortification and supplies take up so much effort there’s none spare to reach out to other survivors. The Brits likely think they’re the only people left in the world, and perhaps each fiefdom thinks it too.

Just To Make Things Worse

So, those trolls and giants roaming about in large numbers?

London alone has a population of 8.5 million (more than the entire populations of Iceland, Denmark, Norway and Finland!). All those people, all infected, all in one small geographical area…

London is no longer a place for humans. The entire city is a death zone, because it is now the domain of two colossal giants- Gog and Magog.

The number of people and London’s extensive underground infrastructure mean that trolls would thrive in huge numbers. Which would eventually become giants, which would eventually become larger giants…I theorise that in London this has reached its inevitable conclusion with the formation of impossibly enormous giants, likely made of hundreds if not thousands of victims. Possibly approaching kaiju-size. And since Gog and Magog of folklore are said to be the guardians of the City of London, it seems appropriate that these are the names given to the two behemoths that reside inside London.

Tl;dr: Britain: still around, but a pretty terrible place to live in.

[Noah O.]

I’ve been thinking about Britain’s current status in the Silent World. In theory Britain should be in a similar if not stronger position to Iceland: it’s a small, cold island with enough natural resources to keep civilisation running, a strong national identity and the locals are famed for having the Blitz Spirit. Unfortunately it also has a high population density, excellent transport links and a ruddy big tunnel connecting it to the continent, so once the Rash took hold it probably swept through like wildfire, hence why according to the map Britain is part of the Silent World.

But, compared to other European nations, native Britons are genetically very close to Scandinavians thanks to centuries of settlement and the Danelaw. This suggests to me that the level of immunity is similar to that of the Nordic countries. So give or take the non-native population and deaths caused by the collapse of civilisation, this could imply at least half a million survivors (Great Britain has more than double the population of all the Nordic countries combined). Combined with food supplies and infrastructure you’d think survivors would be able to contact the outside world and be part of the known world- so what’s going on?

Horrible Beasties[/u]

Britain no longer has any large predators, so there’s no infected bears or wolves to worry about. Beasts would have to deal with both the climate and the sheer hordes of cats everywhere (8.5 million registered pets, unknown numbers of feral/unregistered ones), so would be manageable. If anything the population crash would massive reduce the numbers of vermin as they subsist on humanity’s wasteful behaviour. A major problem would be zoo animals, and I can easily see breeding groups of beasts taking control of certain areas of the country- gorillas and apes in the East Midlands, white lions in the West Midlands, tigers in the Isle of Wight etc.

The main threat in post-Rash Britain? Trolls and giants. Remember what I was saying about high population densities? What do you think is going to be the end result of 50+ million people living in close proximity becoming infected? Trolls and giants are going to be much more common than in Scandinavia and make the cities/large towns no-go areas. Which leads to…

Society Structure

So we’ve got a large population that have been forced out of the cities and are in need of defence against large monsters slithering about at night. What’s the obvious solution for such a historic nation?

Castles, aww yeahh!

I can see British society as having been forced back to mediaeval levels. The populace are based around fortified castles, farming and scavenging the land around for food and supplies before retreating inside the walls at night as protection against the frequent troll/giant attacks. Trade is limited and each fiefdom stands as a largely independent entity. The reason Britain hasn’t contacted the outside world is simply because it’s unable to- the population centres are isolated and beset, more concerned with survival than expansion. Food, fortification and supplies take up so much effort there’s none spare to reach out to other survivors. The Brits likely think they’re the only people left in the world, and perhaps each fiefdom thinks it too.

Just To Make Things Worse

So, those trolls and giants roaming about in large numbers?

London alone has a population of 8.5 million (more than the entire populations of Iceland, Denmark, Norway and Finland!). All those people, all infected, all in one small geographical area…

London is no longer a place for humans. The entire city is a death zone, because it is now the domain of two colossal giants- Gog and Magog.

The number of people and London’s extensive underground infrastructure mean that trolls would thrive in huge numbers. Which would eventually become giants, which would eventually become larger giants…I theorise that in London this has reached its inevitable conclusion with the formation of impossibly enormous giants, likely made of hundreds if not thousands of victims. Possibly approaching kaiju-size. And since Gog and Magog of folklore are said to be the guardians of the City of London, it seems appropriate that these are the names given to the two behemoths that reside inside London.

Tl;dr: Britain: still around, but a pretty terrible place to live in.

And in the midst of this terrible, terrible disaster, one question arises: Are you drift-compatible?

[Hrollo]

"Strong national identity" and "Britain" are not two things I expect to see in the same sentence, actually.

[Superdark33]

native Britons are genetically very close to Scandinavians thanks to centuries of settlement and the Danelaw. This suggests to me that the level of immunity is similar to that of the Nordic countries.

Okay i dont want to be "that guy" but this line bothers me a lot.

That, and i still dont see why coldness is a requierment to survival?

[Fimbulvarg]

In theory Britain should be in a similar if not stronger position to Iceland: it’s a small, cold island

Well, cold.... I suppose it's not particularly warm in the usual sense of the word but to an Icelander it would seldom be particularly cold. The point about animals might be true, but in a country with a higher population density than Germany and France the primary spreaders would be humans.

I'd imagine a scenario where some Britons might survive like the Hotakainens - living as boat people in the relatively calm Irish Sea before seeking isolated islands on the coast of Scotland.