Heh, I was thinking of starting this thread. I'd love to learn a Nordic language, but I'm not actually learning any at the moment. For now I was thinking Finnish. Looks the easiest of the bunch, even though Swedish IMHO sounds a lot cuter.
Hahaa, mielenkiintoista katsoa kun toiset opettelevat suomea. Toivottavasti opitte hyvin!
There's a bit of homework for you ;D I studied swedish in school (it's mandatory in Finland), but now I have forgotten almost everything. There's bits and pieces I think I might understand, but I certainly wouldn't survive in Stockholm speaking only swedish...
Edit: Nimphy, I think Fimbulvarg said it best - Swedish is more useful in general, more common and I think it sounds better too.
Edit: Nimphy, I think Fimbulvarg said it best - Swedish is more useful in general, more common and I think it sounds better too.
You make me sound really mean :P. It does belong in the calculation, but let's be honest - if it were about usefulness and number of speakers Spanish or German would be the languages to learn. It's more important to ask yourself which languages appeal to you, who do you want to communicate with and how much effort are you willing to put down.
I don't think "easy" is a good description. It's definitely doable, but keep in mind that Finnish is a) completely different from any other major European language and b) has a crazy amount of uncommon grammatical rules.
I've been learning Norwegian casually for the past year and a half. Courtesy of Kaizers Orchestra. I've fallen in love with the language thanks to them. SSSS and aRTD have helped me keep my interest alive, though ;)
It's very fun. I'm already fluent in Afrikaans, Dutch, and English, plus able to read German, so seeing the similarities between all the languages is absolutely fun, whether it's the way things are said, the spellings, the grammatical stuff... even seeing the ways in which they aren't similar is fun and interesting - for example, the Norwegian for "I" (Jeg) is said in the exact same way the Afrikaans for "You (singular)" (jy) is said. Took me a bit to rewire that connection in my brain.
Also, the tones in Norwegian (and Swedish, for that matter) are much more comfortable to me than English. And for a non-English native living in an English speaking country, it's always nice to hear those tones, whether it be via a language program, songs, or talk shows and things. Something else which keeps my interest in this language alive :)
It's also pretty cool to hear the differences in dialect in Norwegian. Though it's confusing, too. Sometimes words are said completely differently, depending where the speaker is from, haha.
SSSS was definitely a big push for me to actually start learning Finnish, even though I kind of learn it...slowly. xDSomeone may have answered this, but the last few letters of a verb change, depending on if it's you or I or something else like that. For example, "Juosta" is the basic form of the verb "Run". "Juoksin" is if I was running. "Juoksit" is it if it would be you who was running. "Juoksi" would be if it was him or her who was running. "Juoksimme" would be if we were running. "Juoksitte" would be if it was a group of people you are talking to who ran. "Juoksivat" would be if they were running. And then the passive, "Juostaan". That is used when it is unsure who was running. For example, "Juoksukisoissa juostaan" which means that people run in running races. Of course, this is basically the same for all verbs. That was the verb "Juosta" in imperfekti. Preesens would be what is happening currently, and then there's perfekti and pluskvamperfeksi which I have no idea on what they are used for.
I have like, a list with many words and a few verbs, trying to figure out how would a verb change when it's "you" or "I", etc...I'm asking a Finnish friend to teach me, it's rather fun and entertaining, and I love the way Finnish sounds, too :D
I wouldn't be able to make a full sentence yet, though. Sadly! D:
Well, if someone was interested, nordic language speakers could team up with someone who wants to learn Norwegian/Swedish/Danish/Finnish/Icelandic (are there people from Iceland in the forum?). In exchange, the learner could offer insights in his/her own language. :)
Perfekti is the "have done something", pluskvamperfekti the "had done something". Like "Olen juossut" = I have run, "Olin juossut" = I had run.I actually ran into this site from the webpages of the Helsinki Uni. :) I find it very helpful so far. I have not gotten that far, but it's a good site. C:
I don't know if people interested in Finnish language know this site or find it at all helpful, but there is this Donnerwetter Language Center web course for learning Finnish culture and basics of the language called Tavataan taas! (http://donnerwetter.kielikeskus.helsinki.fi/FinnishForForeigners/Default-next.htm) ("See you again!")
In general, for learning languages, I can highly recommend the website Duolingo...The only downside for the time being is that, when I last visited several months ago, there weren't any scandinavian languages yet.
There is a Danish course now, and a Swedish course is set to be coming out in Beta in about three weeks.
If I were to study in Finland, could I come around with knowing Swedish and a little bit of Finnish?
Quick googling about studying graphic design in Finland gave me links to the Aalto University department of media (http://media.aalto.fi/en/) in Helsinki and the University of Lappland (http://www.ulapland.fi/InEnglish), "the northernmost university in the Europen Union".
Hva er problemet med sj-lyden, de har den i Engelsk og (shoot, shear, shin)? Folk flest har heller problemer med kj-lyden og uttaler den som sj- (kino=ski no; Kjøtt=Skjøtt; Kjip=skip). En lingvist jeg snakket med mener kj-lyden er på vei ut av norsk.
Hva er problemet med sj-lyden, de har den i Engelsk og (shoot, shear, shin)? Folk flest har heller problemer med kj-lyden og uttaler den som sj- (kino=ski no; Kjøtt=Skjøtt; Kjip=skip). En lingvist jeg snakket med mener kj-lyden er på vei ut av norsk.
Forskjellen er ganske enkel, for sj-lyden er tungespissen plassert like bak fortennene, for kj-lyden er den plassert lenger bak og oppe i ganen.
Jeg er mer imponert over at du klarer å unngå lyden, inviterer du folk med på cinemateket istedenfor kino?
neeeeej, på svenska är sj-ljudet nåt annat helt. man kan läsa om det specifika ljudet här på norsk (http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustemt_palatal_og_velar_frikativ), eller också här på svenska (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sj-ljudet) och här på engelska (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sj-sound). det är ett konstigt ljud, låter nära till 'hw' eller 'fw' på engelska. jag tycker att 'kj' på svenska är närmare till 'kj' på norsk, men 'sj' är förvirrande och mycket olika.
är kj-ljudet så lika med tyska blitt ch-ljudet, liksom 'ch' i "ich"? (erkänner du det där ljudet?)
Det har du visst rett i, sjekket på wikipedia hvilke fonemer de har i svensk og fant akkurat den artikkelen du linket til. Har aldri lagt merke til det men det stemmer nok når jeg tenker på det. Husker at jeg syns en svenske på nyhetene for ikke så lenge siden uttalte ordet "sjokkert" (eller noe sånt) rart.
Nei, tysk ch som i Bach er det man kaller en velar frikativ konsonant (http://), den er uttalt langt bak drøvelen. Kj er som jeg fortalte ThisCat uttalt som sj-, men lengre bak og oppe i ganen. Den er en palatal frikativ konsonant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palatal_fricative). Men ja, den ligner veldig på tysk ch- selvom de er helt forskjellig når det gjelder hvordan lydene lages.
Forskjellen er ganske enkel, for sj-lyden er tungespissen plassert like bak fortennene, for kj-lyden er den plassert lenger bak og oppe i ganen.
Jeg er mer imponert over at du klarer å unngå lyden, inviterer du folk med på cinemateket istedenfor kino?
Har sjøl problemer med både kj-lyden og rulle-r selv (så det blir til at jeg skarrer og bruker sj istedet for kj istedet). Gjør at folk har problemer med å plassere dialekta mi (snakker rimelig tjukk vestfold-dialekt), og blir iblant spurt om jeg er utlending av folk utafor Vestfold (spesielt da oslofolk). Hvor ofte snakker skandinaverne her ordentlig dialekt? Det virker litt som, i hvertfall i Norge, at dialektane blir utvanna med tia til fordel for bydialektane.
ja, det stämmer. 'chock' och flera andra lånord från engelska och franska har sj-ljudet i stället för t.ex. organisation (det är organisasjon på norsk eller hur?).
jo, det där ljudet menar jag! på tyska, när man har ch-ljudet efter de mjuka vokalerna använder man /ç/, inte /x/.
Snakker ikke tysk selv men hvis man bruker /ç/ i Tysk så er det akkurat den samme lyden som man bruker for Kj- i vanlig norsk.
Hvor i Norge/Sverige er det forresten dere skal besøke? Er det ferie eller besøk av slektninger?
vi vill semestra i skagerrakskusten, tänker jag, resa kanske från oslo till göteborg. vi har inte mer kontakt med våra släktingar (de bor också lite längre bort, i stavanger), så vår resa ska vara bara en ferie.
ThisCat kan sikkert gi tips til hva som er å se sør fra Oslo siden hun bor i Ås. Jeg har kun vært på andre siden av Oslofjorden, Kragerø er et veldig fint sted. På østsiden av Oslofjorden tror jeg Halden og Fredriksten festning er verdt å få med seg. Lenger sør inne i Sverige ligger Bohus festning som en gang i middelalderen ble bygget av en norsk konge.
Øøøøh, for å være helt ærlig vet jeg ikke så mye om severdigheter selv om jeg bor her. Jeg har tross alt aldri vært på ferie her...
Frognerparken er verdt å få med seg da, når du allerede skal til Oslo en tur.
haha, säkert! det är detsamma problem med mig, när mina föräldrar kommer upp att hälsa på mig i kanada kan jag aldrig tänka om saker att göra och turistattraktioner att besöka. jag måste alltid erinra dem att jag bor här, inte semestra här.
men jag ska läsa om frognerparken! den ser vacker ut.
;D
Personlig bryr jeg meg lite om severdigheter uanset hvor jeg drar egentlig. Så lenge vi har det koselig og ikke stresser alt for mye går det bra uansett.
Avhengig av hva dere er interessert i ville jeg foreslått Slottet (og Karl Johans Gate generelt sett), Norsk Maritimt Museum (http://www.marmuseum.no/), Ibsenmuseet (http://www.norskfolkemuseum.no/Tilknyttede-Enheter/Ibsenmuseet/) og Akershus Festning (http://www.forsvarsbygg.no/festningene/Festningene/Akershus-festning/) (som inkluderer Hjemmefrontmuseet). Utenom museer og sånt, så er et besøk til Grünerløkka (et område i Oslo med en del spesielle butikker, kafeer og pubber) verdt det etter min mening. Nordmarka kunne også være verdt et besøk om dere får lyst til å gå tur i norsk skog og mark. Mellom Oslo og Sverige kunne Eidsvoll (http://www.eidsvoll1814.no/) vært greit å besøke også.
Må jo for all del ikke glemme Bygdøy, tror det er det beste stedet å besøke i hele Oslo.
Der har du vikingskipmuseet med Osebergskipet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oseberg_Ship), det best bevarte vikingskipet man har pluss en del andre skip.
Så har du Fram (http://www.omniplan.hu/2003-Oslo/DSCN1305-Fram-ship.jpg), skuta Fridtjof Nansen seilte gjennom nordpol-isen (er det det som er maritimt museum?).
Og du har Kon-Tiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki), flåta Thor Heyerdahl seilte fra Sør-Amerika til påskeøyene og en del andre museer.
Også er det Vigelandsparken og Holmenkollen da. Kan ærlig talt ikke huske at jeg gjorde så mye annet en de to i Oslo når jeg var der på ferie for en ti års tid siden. Det eneste som egentlig interesserer meg i Oslo nå for tiden er ulike conventions.
Jeg drar til Oslo mest for å vente på toget og for å gå på Outland. Alle andre ting kan jeg gjøre andre steder.
Nimphy suggested we should translate our comments for non-nordic visitors.
trans: I go to Oslo mostly to wait for the train and to visit Outland. Anything else I can do other places.
Takk! Now I can finally feel more comfortable lurking around here, knowing that I can understand stuff better (the nordic languages are similar enough to English for me to get a general grasping, but this way is better and I learn more words). Maybe sometime in the future I'll even try to butcher the Norwegian language in this thread, yayy! (Hey, I can translate the first two words of my message in Norwegian! That's progress, right?... Right? :-[)
Det er fremgang :) Godt jobba Nimphy! Nå må du prøve å oversette dette. Jeg kan gjerne hjelpe deg med norsken hvis du trenger noe, og jeg tror samtaler som dette sannsynligvis er en god måte å lære på. Ingen kommer til å le av deg for å være dårlig til å begynne med :)
Trans: That's progerss :) Good work Nimphy! Now you have to try to translate this. I would love to help you with the norwegian if you need anything, and I think conversations like this are probably a good way to learn. No one's going to laugh at you if you're bad to begin with :)
I know, I'd never dare to laugh at someone for trying to speak a langage, so I'm assuming people will do the same. :D
Jeg må dra nå, homework to do. Hade bra, vi snakkes... later.(Wrote that from memory, I may have said stupid things... Is speaking Norsknglish a good idea to start?)
Sannsynligvis ikke det verste man kan gjøre. Hjemmelekser er viktig. Ha det bra, snakkes senere.
Probably not the worst thing you could do. Homework is important. Good bye, talk later.
Uuuuh, subtle way to correct my awful Norwegian, that's so sweet! Althought yelling at me also works ;)
Drar ikke til Oslo så altfor ofte jeg heller (med tanke på at det tar rundt to timer med tog eller buss fra der jeg bor). Det blir mest for å besøke kamerater og en gang iblant for å handle på noen butikker de ikke har andre steder (Outland har jeg vært i et par ganger, også er det Pentagon da). Ellers syns jeg Oslo blir for dyrt og stort.
Jeg misliker å rope, høye lyder stresser meg mer enn det er verdt.
I dislike yelling, loud sounds stress me out more than it's worth.
Det ting er... funny. Jeg kan snakker ikke norsk, men det ting er... funny (next step: buying a dictionary)
(Not you disliking loud sounds - me trying to speak Norwegian.)
Funny=morsomtYup, I had the feeling it made no sense whatsoever. Oh, well.
Jeg er ikke helt sikker på hva du prøver å si her, men jeg kan se om jeg kan rette på deg. "det ting er" Den tingen, eller bare Tingen kanske?. "Jeg kan snakker ikke norsk" Jeg kan ikke snakke norsk, eller Jeg snakker ikke norsk. Uansett godt forsøk.
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, but I'll see if I can fix it for you. "Det ting er" Den tingen er, or possibly just Tingen er? (I think you're trying to say something that would have to be rephrased.) "Jeg kan snakker ikke norsk" must be either Jeg kan ikke snakke norsk, or Jeg snakker ikke norsk, or else you mess up your grammar. Good try anyway.
Yup, I had the feeling it made no sense whatsoever. Oh, well.
Jeg prøver å snakke norsk. Jeg har prøvt å lese tekst deres. Det er vanskelig for meg. Jeg forstar ikke alt.
Pooof. I try to speak Norwegian. I have tried to read your texts (does a plural of text exist?). That is hard for me. I do not understand everything.
Vel, du har alt rett utenom at det heter "prøvd" og flertall av tekst er "tekstene".
Well, you've got everything right except that it's "prøvd" and the plural of tekst is "tekstene".
Takk for din erklæring. Jeg har høred som dere sprakker norsk med (???) vocaroo. Først jeg bare skal lese norsk ;).
Thanks for your explanation. I have heard you (two) speaking Norwegian at vocaroo. I will only read Norwegian for now ;). I'm not sure if "bare" is put at the right place of the sentence. It felt better there, for I'd like to say I will stick to only reading Norwegian. But I'm not aiming on saying that I will read Norwegian only. Uhm yeah. Languages are tricky.
Takk for din erklæring. Jeg har høred som dere sprakker norsk med (???) vocaroo. Først jeg bare skal lese norsk ;).
Thanks for your explanation. I have heard you (two) speaking Norwegian at vocaroo. I will only read Norwegian for now ;). I'm not sure if "bare" is put at the right place of the sentence. It felt better there, for I'd like to say I will stick to only reading Norwegian. But I'm not aiming on saying that I will read Norwegian only. Uhm yeah. Languages are tricky.
What Fimbulvarg said, plus that "høred" should be "hørt" and "som" should either not be there or be an "at". About your last comment, there is no way to write the two things differently, you have to go by how it's said unfortunately.
Vil andre forstaner, hva jeg si viller dermed?
Will others understand, what I want to say by that? Or is it like Turkish, that it will depend on the context and you always have to listen until the person speaking has finished?
Den här forum blir bättre och bättre varje dag. Kanske ska jag lära mig svenska (ock tyska) här igen när jag nu har nån bruk för dem =)
I dag St. Martin dag. Barna vil gå med lanterner og det er et stor bål. Er det i Norge?Noen små korreksjoner på norsken der: Det burde være 'I dag er det St. Martins dag' og 'stort' i stedet for 'stor'.
(Today is St. Martin's day. The children will walk with lanterns and there is a big fire. Do you have this in Norway?)
I dag St. Martin dag. Barna vil gå med lanterner og det er et stor bål. Er det i Norge?
(Today is St. Martin's day. The children will walk with lanterns and there is a big fire. Do you have this in Norway?)
Kunne nok hatt en del å si om Olav Digre ja, men lar være i tilfelle det kommer kristne innom. Tror ingen vil ha heftige religiøse diskusjoner gående. Feirer ikke sjøl Sankta Lucia eller Olsok (dog feirer jeg midtsommer med blot, og blir med på bålet i bygda på Sanktans). Som et spørsmål til nordmenna, og andre forsåvidt, hvilke høytider feirer dere personlig?
I could have quite a bit to say about Olav Digre (Saint Olaf), but I don't in case there's Christians about. I doubt anyone wants heated religious arguments. I don't celebrate Saint Lucy's Day or Olsok myself (although I do celebrate midsummer with a blot, and I join in for the local village bonfire at Saint John's Night). As a question to the Norwegians, and others, which holidays do you personally celebrate?
Kunne nok hatt en del å si om Olav Digre ja, men lar være i tilfelle det kommer kristne innom. Tror ingen vil ha heftige religiøse diskusjoner gående. Feirer ikke sjøl Sankta Lucia eller Olsok (dog feirer jeg midtsommer med blot, og blir med på bålet i bygda på Sanktans). Som et spørsmål til nordmenna, og andre forsåvidt, hvilke høytider feirer dere personlig?
I could have quite a bit to say about Olav Digre (Saint Olaf), but I don't in case there's Christians about. I doubt anyone wants heated religious arguments.
Kunne nok hatt en del å si om Olav Digre ja, men lar være i tilfelle det kommer kristne innom. Tror ingen vil ha heftige religiøse diskusjoner gående. Feirer ikke sjøl Sankta Lucia eller Olsok (dog feirer jeg midtsommer med blot, og blir med på bålet i bygda på Sanktans). Som et spørsmål til nordmenna, og andre forsåvidt, hvilke høytider feirer dere personlig?
I could have quite a bit to say about Olav Digre (Saint Olaf), but I don't in case there's Christians about. I doubt anyone wants heated religious arguments. I don't celebrate Saint Lucy's Day or Olsok myself (although I do celebrate midsummer with a blot, and I join in for the local village bonfire at Saint John's Night). As a question to the Norwegians, and others, which holidays do you personally celebrate?
Kan påpeke at jeg er "fanatisk agnostiker", men ja, ingen grunn til å ta noen kontroversielle diskusjoner.
Er vel i grunn kun Jul uten at vi går i kirka, pluss nyttårsaften med familievenner. Av og til har vi hagefest på sankthans, det vil si grilling, ikke bål. Har hatt bål i fjæra når jeg var yngre. Påsken er mest sånn at vi har fri og kanskje reiser et sted, vi går ikke på messe eller noe da heller. Sankt lucia... Vi eter lusekatter og det er det. Det er vel i grunn ikke en "hellig" dag i ordrett forstand, men vi feirer alltid 17. Mai. Som regel drar vi bare til sentrum og ser på ting og så drar vi hjem igjen.
Fanatisk agnostiker, eh? Jeg pleide å være agnostiker, nå er jeg nærmere ekstremateist, men jeg holder meg langt unna religiøse debatter.
17. mai feirer jeg også selvsagt, men familien er ikke så stor på det. Tror jeg er det mest patriotiske familiemedlemmet.
Vi må gi et merkelig bilde på Norge egentlig. En hedning, en agnostiker og en ateist går inn i en bar ... to be continued.
We [fimbulvarg, ThisCat, Fenris] must present a strange picture of Norway really. A pagan, an agnostic and an atheist walk into a bar .... to be continued.
Vi må gi et merkelig bilde på Norge egentlig. En hedning, en agnostiker og en ateist går inn i en bar ... to be continued.
We [fimbulvarg, ThisCat, Fenris] must present a strange picture of Norway really. A pagan, an agnostic and an atheist walk into a bar .... to be continued.
Vi må gi et merkelig bilde på Norge egentlig. En hedning, en agnostiker og en ateist går inn i en bar ... to be continued.
We [fimbulvarg, ThisCat, Fenris] must present a strange picture of Norway really. A pagan, an agnostic and an atheist walk into a bar .... to be continued.
Jeg er enn an agnostic. Hvis dere vil diskutere, så gjører det. Men kan dere skrive kort setninger?
(I'm agnostic, too. If you want to diskuss, then do it. But could you please write short sentences?)
Er paven bartenderen?
Is the pope the bartender?
Nei, jeg tror ikke vi bør ha noen diskusjon på religion egentlig.
No, I don't really think we should have any discussion on religion.
Enten han eller Kjell Magne Bondevik.
Enten han eller Kjell Magne Bondevik.
Hvem er Kjell Magne Bondevik?
For meg ser det ut som om du allerede behersker Svensk på et høyt nivå.
For me it seems like you already master Swedish at a high level.
Gammel statsminister og medlem av det kristne partiet KrF."Gammel" lyder morsomt. "Gammel" betyr råtten in tysk.
Old prime minister and member of the christian party KrF.
Tack så mycket, det var snällt sagt. Men egentligen har jag glömt mest av det svenska jag lärde mig i skolan och har stora svårigheter med språket varje gång jag måste betjäna svenska eller svenkspråkiga gäster på min arbetsplats. Här på forum kan jag först tänka efter varje ord så länge jag behöver före jag skriver nånting, så det är mycket lättare så här ;)
Thank you, that was kindly said. But actually I've forgotten most of the Swedish I learned in school and have big difficulties with the language every time I must serve Swedish or Swedish speaking customers at work. Here on the forum I can first think about every word as long as I need before writing something, so it's much easier this way ;)
"Gammel" lyder morsomt. "Gammel" betyr råtten in tysk.
Nei, jeg tror ikke vi bør ha noen diskusjon på religion egentlig.Enig der. Religion, politikk og nynorsk/bokmål konflikten er de tre tinga nordmenn aldri burde diskutere om man vil bevare husfreden.
No, I don't really think we should have any discussion on religion.
Heh. "lyder" er ikke feil, men det er mer riktig med "høres ut" som i "høres morsomt ut".
Enig der. Religion, politikk og nynorsk/bokmål konflikten er de tre tinga nordmenn aldri burde diskutere om man vil bevare husfreden.
I agree. Religion, politics and the nynorsk/bokmål conflict are the three things Norwegians never should discuss if one wants to maintain the peace.
De går nå til en viss grad på det samme. Er det noe jeg hater når vi har familieselskap så er det at vi alltid skal diskutere innvandring. Ingenting intelligent og reflektert blir noensinne sagt om det.
They are more or less related. If it's something I hate when we have family-gatherings that would be that we always have to discuss immigration. Nothing intelligent and reflected is ever said about that.
De går nå til en viss grad på det samme. Er det noe jeg hater når vi har familieselskap så er det at vi alltid skal diskutere innvandring. Ingenting intelligent og reflektert blir noensinne sagt om det.Kjenner til det selv. Selv om familien for det meste er relativt like politisk, blir det ofte heftige krangler rundt enkelte ting som innvandring på slektstreff (spesielt når alle unntatt unga har fått litt innabords). Men, så liker jeg å krangle politikk til tider da, men det blir litt til sin tid (og alle innvolvert burde være godt kjent).
They are more or less related. If it's something I hate when we have family-gatherings that would be that we always have to discuss immigration. Nothing intelligent and reflected is ever said about that.
Invandering er diskuteres overalt. Og overalt det ender med uklok oppfatning.
(Immigration is diskussed everywhere. And everywhere it ends with unthougt oppinions). I will go back to reading for today ;).
Random observation before I go back to lurking: why does the noun for "immigration" look like "invading"?*comes out of lurking*
Random observation before I go back to lurking: why does the noun for "immigration" look like "invading"?Historisk sett så var det at Skandinavere innvandra til et sted veldig som å invadere et sted. Men jeg er ikke sikker, har ikke tenkt på det sjøl men de er ganske like når du nevner der. Kanskje ordene 'vandre' og 'invadere' har noe felles etymologiskt?
So I found an old viking saga-type text I wrote as a school assignment back in the days - Eitil Fimbulskælfa's saga!! I figured I'd share it here for those know Norwegian and those who don't but want to challenge themselves:
It's very long so I'll just post episode 1 (for now at least).
-long, awesome saga-style thing
So I found an old viking saga-type text I wrote as a school assignment back in the days - Eitil Fimbulskælfa's saga!! I figured I'd share it here for those know Norwegian and those who don't but want to challenge themselves:
It's very long so I'll just post episode 1 (for now at least).
Utfor Tjøtta i Omd budde ein mann som heite Eitil, fyrste son av Torgeir Ragnarsson. Mor til Eitil døydde før Eitil var eldre enn to vintrar, og far hans måtte stelle med ham åleine. Eitil vaks til ein jøkul av ein mann, og vart kjend som Fimbulskælfa, for han var høgare og sterkare enn nokon mann i Omd, og det vart sagt at han fekk det til å skjelve i jorda kvar helst han gjekk. Han var ingen staseleg kar, for han var både grim og full av arr i andletet, og når han ikkje drakk var han ein stillfaren kar. Han grodde eit digert skjegg, og ustelt som han var såg han til tider ut som eit dyr. Til ekte tok han Ida frå Vega. Dei vart aldri lukkelege saman sjølv om dei hadde tre barn, som vart gjeve namna Burislaug, Ulf og Bolla. Eitil vart etter kvart kjend som ein frykteleg krigar, og mange menn vart drepne for hans hender. Kvar helst der Eitil gjekk i kamp vart fienden hans skrekkslagen, for Eitil var sterk som ein bjørn og kjempa med eit valdsamt raseri med ein diger kvass øks kjend som Vargbitt. Eitil hadde teke den staselege øksa frå ein krigar frå Godøy ved namn Tore Skarpbrimi som var ein namngjeten krigar i området. Tore vart drepen av Eitil i ein feid, og som bytte tok Eitil øksa men skåna ætlingane til Tore. Ein sa at Eitil var som ein berserkar i kamp, for han var så valdeleg og fryktlaus at ingen av manneætt kunne møte Eitil i kamp og leve. Av di han var slik ein mektig krigar vart han teke opp som huskar hos hovmannen på Tjøtta, Torkjell Bjørn, og fekk til all tid sitja ved hovmannen sitt bord i hans skåle slik nyttige never tidt gjorde. Torkjell sjølv var ein gamal mann, men meir enn nokon var han ein krigarmann som få. Sterke var menn i Bjørneætten, mykje til krigarar hadde dei alltid vori, og få kom opp om Tjøtta sine hovmenn i mannevett og list. Torkjell sjølv sa om Eitil, at han var den største krigar i heila Hålogaland, og at ingen mann skulle nyte betre av gjestfriheita til Torkjell sin ætt enn ham. Torkjell gjorde Eitil til Hersir på dei to drakeskipa sine og gav ham namnet Fimbulvarg, for han tykte at han likna nett på ein diger farleg varg der han gjekk i serk av vargskinn og ei kappe av vargpels. Eitil tente Torkjell hovmann svært trufast, for Eitil var ein fattig bonde takknemleg for dei gjeve gåvene Torkjell gav, og han slo Torkjell sine fiendar i hel alle som ein. Torkjell Bjørn sin skald, Kolbein den kloke, kvad om den gjeve Eitil:
Vreid er varg vore,
Ein valdsam krigar frå Tjøttas vik,
Sit ved Bjørnættens bord,
Ein betre hersir har få i skåle.
Trufast tene Fimbulvarg hovmannen,
Med Vargbittet huggast dei som trettar med ham.
Ikke sikker på hvor lett dette er å lese for de med Norsk som andre- eller tredjespråk, men det høres skikkelig kult ut! For å legge til noe på diskusjon om fimbulvinteren som dukket opp på general discussion, det er godt mulig at den originale fimbulvinteren ikke var en vinter, men en sommer som aldri kom. Med andre ord: dødsdom.
Not sure how easy tis is to read for those who have Norwegian as a second or third language, but it sounds real cool! To add to the discussion of the fimbulvinter that showed up in the general discussion, it's possible that the original fimbulvinter wasn't a winter at all, but a summer that never came. In other words: a death sentence.
Den religiøse fimbulvintern innebærer jo litt mer enn bare en lang eller hard vinter, og selve fimbulvintern er noe som vil skje og ikke har skjedd ifølge eddane (den blir beskrivi i voluspå som opptakten te ragnarok). Fimbulvintern i seg sjøl er en treårig kraftig vinter + total solformørkelse som fører til hungersnød og kriger. Dog er det interessant om fimbulvintern beskrivi i voluspå er inspirert av en tidligere langvinter.
Jeg ville ikke vært overrasket om det var basert kun på marerittet om en vinter som aldri ender, som igjen er basert på de dårlige somrene med liten avling. Det er den typen skrekkhistorier som fester seg når du har sultet deg gjennom en halv vinter uten matlagre.Ville ikke vært overaskande det heller nei. Men så tar det jo slutt når Surt kommer og tar fyr på hele verden da, men først etter at de døde blir vekkt opp igjen og dreper flesteparten av de som overlevde vintern. Når man tenker på det, så er det ikke mye å se fram til der.
Ville ikke vært overaskande det heller nei. Men så tar det jo slutt når Surt kommer og tar fyr på hele verden da, men først etter at de døde blir vekkt opp igjen og dreper flesteparten av de som overlevde vintern. Når man tenker på det, så er det ikke mye å se fram til der.
Guuuuyss! I'm still lurking here! Even a quick summary in English would help!
PS: not the story. I am going to translate the story all by myself, as soon as I find the time. And mark my words, I'm going to make an excellent translation (not).
Sorry, but I'm not going to translate those walls of text.
Guuuuyss! I'm still lurking here! Even a quick summary in English would help!We were talking about cheerful things like the end of the world, eternal winter and famine.
PS: not the story. I am going to translate the story all by myself, as soon as I find the time. And mark my words, I'm going to make an excellent translation (not).
I don't expect you to!! That would be crazy :o But a simple "That was a long wall of text about milk and socks and stuff" would help :-[
I don't expect you to!! That would be crazy :o But a simple "That was a long wall of text about milk and socks and stuff" would help :-[
Lurker here:
I could pick out the occasional noun: Ragnarok, Fimbulwinter, Iceland, "the historian Axel Blytt theorized [something something] climate changed (after?) 2000 years due to volcanic activity [something scientific] tundra... pollen... [tree-pollen and some other kind of pollen] (embedded in?) sedimentary layers"... uh, something?
So, kiddies, THAT'S why we tell stories about Fimbulwinter! Blame it on those crazy Icelanders and their geologically unstable island!
Wow, you're surprisingly observant and not too far from the general idea (about Iceland being out of control). Blytt was a biologist anyhow, samt means "as well as".
I'm surprised by the number of lurkers around here.
Thanks for the compliment (though maybe it's better as a warning about nosy eavesdroppers...)
1) I am a former investigative journalist
I will have to Google Dr. Blytt and his theories. There are a lot of other proposed historical/legendary explanations in that vein, e.g. that the eruption of Santorini/Thera in the Aegean in ~1400 BC destroyed the high Minoan culture (a/k/a "Atlantis") and fueled a lot of Old Testament stories about "a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night," etc.
Jag hade inte hört om fimbulvintern, även om jag trodde att jag visste grunderna i nordisk mytologin. Det är inte ovanlig för att man relaterar sin tiden i sådan sätt när man talar om religion eller skriver religiösa texter. Är Fimbulvarg rollfiguren i denna saga eller har du uppfann det namnet själv? Wikipedia säger fimbul betyder mäktig (eller nån likadan), så är du en mäktig ulv? :)
Vad intressant tema! Uh, att skriva svenska känns som att starta en gammal bil. Det kommer att ta en stund innan man kör i motorvägen. Jag hoppas att ni kan förstå mig trots alla felen (och att den här är inte norska eller danska. Jag kan läsa dem, men inte skriva heller.)
hej alla, jättebra nyheter! från och med idag har jag och min sambo flygbiljetter till island i sommar. vi ska gå i juni, så...jag antar att det är tur för att börja lära mig islenska!
heisann, kjempebra nyheter! per (?) i dag har jeg og min sambo flygbilletter till island i sommer. vi kommer till gå i juni, så...jeg antar å det er tur for å starte lære mig islenska!
hæ alla, ég er með frábæra frétta! eins og í dag eru ég og kærasta mín með miða til íslands í sumar. við erum að fara í júní, þannig...ég ætti að læra íslensku nú!
hey everyone, great news! as of today my partner and i have tickets to iceland this summer. we're going in june, so i guess it's time for me to start learning icelandic! (and by the way, all help with the norwegian is appreciated! it's mostly just me trying to respell swedish in the norwegian way right now...)
jag kan förstå dig enkelt! för mig är det fast nog bättre att du använder svenska istället för norska eller danska. :P
:sweden: Snygg! Hur ska du lära dig språket? Jag har bara börjat lära islenska också och vill vet vad skulle vara bästa sättet att göra det. Jag ögnade en bok "Colloquial Icelandic" men jag tycker det hade dåliga strukturen. Det var inte klar vad man ska lära när index var bara teman av diskussioner i olika situationer.
Islands universitet har en kurs (http://icelandiconline.is/index.html) på nätet. Man måste registera sig men det är gratis. Jag har inte testat den här saijten men jag tror det skulle vara bra när universitetet tillverkade den.
:uk: What's the best way to learn Icelandic? At first glance "Colloquial Icelandic" seemed to have too vague structure. The University of Iceland has an online course (http://icelandiconline.is/index.html) which seems promising, but I haven't tried it yet.
So cute when Sigrun calls Tuuri "little pal" on p. 218! What would that be in Norwegian?"Lille venn" for "Little pal". "Stubby" I'm unsure about. "Lubben" (chubby) or possibly "Butt" (stumpy)? Neither works very well as a nickname, though, so perhaps something like "Lubbeliten" (chubby-small, which sounds more nickname-esque in Norwegian).
How about "Stubby"?
"Lille venn" for "Little pal". "Stubby" I'm unsure about. "Lubben" (chubby) or possibly "Butt" (stumpy)? Neither works very well as a nickname, though, so perhaps something like "Lubbeliten" (chubby-small, which sounds more nickname-esque in Norwegian).
Ooo! Great answers from *two* Norwegians! Thank you!
How about when Sigrun addresses Emil as "...my right-hand warrior"?
And what do you think she'll call Lalli? "Kitty"? "Skinny"? She's already called him "my little mage," but he didn't seem to like that.
:sweden: åh hej, det är ett snyggt handlaget för att särskilja språken. jag tycker att jag ska stjäla och använda det också ;) alltså, gällande hur man kan bäst lära sig isländska (skenbar är det den riktiga stavningen, men det ser så klantigt ut!), jag har börjat nyss med universitets kursen. hittills har det varit bestämt användbar. inte så bra som, jag vet inte, babbel eller duolingo eller nåt liknande, men bättre än allt annars.
:sweden: Haha, isländska är ju rätt... jag undrar hur islenska slank in i huvudet. Det där ser ut mer som konstig isländska. ::) Därför att vi nu använder fem olika språken, jag tycker att flaggorna skulle hjälpa ut de som kan inte uppfatta genast vilken språk man läser och vill översätta. Vi ses om praktiken ska bli populär.
:uk: I think the flags might make reading and translating a bit easier for those who can't differentiate immediately between the 5 languages used in this thread. Vote with your actions and we'll see whether the practice will catch on.
Utfor Tjøtta i Omd budde ein mann som heite Eitil, fyrste son av Torgeir Ragnarsson. Mor til Eitil døydde før Eitil var eldre enn to vintrar, og far hans måtte stelle med ham åleine. Eitil vaks til ein jøkul av ein mann, og vart kjend som Fimbulskælfa, for han var høgare og sterkare enn nokon mann i Omd, og det vart sagt at han fekk det til å skjelve i jorda kvar helst han gjekk.
I tried hard, then I got stuck but luckily I discovered that nynorsk would help on some parts so here my attempt of translation:
Near Tjøtta in Omd lived a man called Eitil, first son of Torgeir Ragnarssoin. Eitil's mother died before Eitil turned two winters old and his father had to care for him on his own. Eitil grew into a "mountain of a man" and was as popular as Fimbulskælfa, because he was bigger and stronger than any other man in Omd. (And) It was said, that the earth seemed to tremble where he liked to walk.
The last part was the hardest and still I'm not quite sure what "han fekk det til å skjelve i jorda kvar helst han gjekk" really means. Is it some kind of really old grammar or a passive construct?
I tried hard, then I got stuck but luckily I discovered that nynorsk would help on some parts so here my attempt of translation:
Near Tjøtta in Omd lived a man called Eitil, first son of Torgeir Ragnarssoin. Eitil's mother died before Eitil turned two winters old and his father had to care for him on his own. Eitil grew into a "mountain of a man" and was as popular as Fimbulskælfa, because he was bigger and stronger than any other man in Omd. (And) It was said, that the earth seemed to tremble where he liked to walk.
The last part was the hardest and still I'm not quite sure what "han fekk det til å skjelve i jorda kvar helst han gjekk" really means. Is it some kind of really old grammar or a passive construct?
You are right, it is actually written in Nynorsk. I'm impressed you've managed to get down the meaning so precisely. "And was as popular as Fimbulskælfa" should be "and became known as Fimbulskælfa". Ruth is almost correct, it should be "he made the earth shake wherever he went". It's a very typical nynorsk wording which makes it problematic for those not used to it. "Kvar helst" means "wherever", in bokmål the wording would be "overalt" eller "hvor enn".
"Han var ingen staseleg kar, for han var både grim og full av arr i andletet, og når han ikkje drakk var han ein stillfaren kar. Han grodde eit digert skjegg, og ustelt som han var såg han til tider ut som eit dyr. Til ekte tok han Ida frå Vega. Dei vart aldri lukkelege saman sjølv om dei hadde tre barn, som vart gjeve namna Burislaug, Ulf og Bolla. Eitil vart etter kvart kjend som ein frykteleg krigar, og mange menn vart drepne for hans hender."He was not an adorable guy, because he was grim/dark looking and had a face full of scars. When he did not drink he was a [very] quiet one. He grew an impressive [or. huge] beard, which was untidy and after some time looked like an animal [I would say: made him look like an animal]. Until he took [meaning maried?] Ida from Vega. They were never happy together. When they got three children they named them Burislaug, Ulf and Bolla. Time after time Eitil was known for being a fierce warrior and many men died through his hands.
Thanks to both of you. I puzzled out today that "fekk" and "gjekk" are past tense forms of nynorsk. Luckily the provides me with lots of grammar ressources and my latin skills help in analysing an sentence before translating it. So I gave the second part a try:
He was not an adorable guy, because he was grim/dark looking and had a face full of scars. When he did not drink he was a [very] quiet one. He grew an impressive [or. huge] beard, which was untidy and after some time looked like an animal [I would say: made him look like an animal]. Until he took [meaning maried?] Ida from Vega. They were never happy together. When they got three children they named them Burislaug, Ulf and Bolla. Time after time Eitil was known for being a fierce warrior and many men died through his hands.
Jeg er ikke sikker, om jeg har riktik forstått setninga med barnene. Setningen å danne er fremdeles problem.
(I'm not sure, if I understoof the sentence with the children correctly. Building sentences is a problem still.)
Vel, du skriver iallefall korrekt når du først prøver så vidt jeg kan se. Forstår du norsk og dansk?
Well, you write correctly when you do try as far as I can see. Do you understand Norwegian and Danish?
:norway: Pessi, forumet har sine egne flagg (http://ssssforum.pcriot.com/index.php?topic=16.msg98#msg98). Du anvender dem på denne måte: :country: (Eksempel: :finland:)
*comes out of lurking* I am hoping that came out intelligibly. Also, I really appreciate the side-by-side comparisons of the same thing in different languages, which I find interesting.
There's Only one thing I have any reason to correct: "denne måte" should be "denne måten". Måte (way/method/manner) is a masculine noun which when used in the definite sense has the suffix -en.
A manner- en måte
The manner -måten
That manner- den måten
This manner- denne måten
Takk!
Time to go back and study my grammar some more. :)
Kvar helst der Eitil gjekk i kamp vart fienden hans skrekkslagen, for Eitil var sterk som ein bjørn og kjempa med eit valdsamt raseri med ein diger kvass øks kjend som Vargbitt. Eitil hadde teke den staselege øksa frå ein krigar frå Godøy ved namn Tore Skarpbrimi som var ein namngjeten krigar i området. Tore vart drepen av Eitil i ein feid, og som bytte tok Eitil øksa men skåna ætlingane til Tore.Yeay, nearly half through:
:norway: Pessi, forumet har sine egne flagg (http://ssssforum.pcriot.com/index.php?topic=16.msg98#msg98). Du anvender dem på denne måte: :country: (Eksempel: :finland:)
In general, for learning languages, I can highly recommend the website Duolingo.
Has a large community whereby members help each other a lot.
The only downside for the time being is that, when I last visited several months ago, there weren't any scandinavian languages yet.
But new languages are added at a rapid pace - so it presumably shouldn't take too long [let's say: < 1 year].
Av di han var slik ein mektig krigar vart han teke opp som huskar hos hovmannen på Tjøtta, Torkjell Bjørn, og fekk til all tid sitja ved hovmannen sitt bord i hans skåle slik nyttige never tidt gjorde. Torkjell sjølv var ein gamal mann, men meir enn nokon var han ein krigarmann som få.
I think these two sentences took me nearly 90 minutes and I hope I got something of them right. At first, I had them messed up but after some time, i puzzled out that "av di" and "all tid" belong together as well as "vart...teke opp" might be a group as well.Oh, right. Sorry, I forgot to reply to your translations. I will... Respond in depth on tuesday after my final exam. I'd like to take my time in fomulating precise responses after all. Good work so far!
Because he was such an powerfull warrior, he was welcomed like a ruler at an blacksmith's from Tjøtta, Trorkjell Bjørn, and was always seated at a table with that blacksmith to sit and drink on his doing with his usefull fists (on what he did with his usefull fists?). Trjorkell himself was an old man, but as well he was more a warrior of deed. ("som få" was hard to grab).
What would mean "this translation (nearly) drove me nutts"?
Oh, right. Sorry, I forgot to reply to your translations. I will... Respond in depth on tuesday after my final exam. I'd like to take my time in fomulating precise responses after all. Good work so far!
For the Swedish learners, I just found that there's one of my favourite swedish songs with lyrics:
/>And I can recommend the movie as well :)
:sweden: min favoritsång på svenska är antagligen du är för fin för mig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgIdJrMoFCE) av dungen. bestämt är den inte så rörande som gabriellas sång (det var ju en bra förslag!), men trots det mycket rolig. det här är sången som har inspirerat mig för att lära mig allvarligt svenska!Ohh, this is a good song! I'm happy to say that I understood some of the words! :D Do you happen to have the lyrics?
:uk: my favourite song in swedish is probably du är för fin för mig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgIdJrMoFCE) (you're too good for me) by dungen. definitely not as touching as gabriellas sång (very pretty, and nice suggestion btw!), but also very fun. this is the song that inspired me to start working on my swedish!
Ohh, this is a good song! I'm happy to say that I understood some of the words! :D Do you happen to have the lyrics?
I think these two sentences took me nearly 90 minutes and I hope I got something of them right. At first, I had them messed up but after some time, i puzzled out that "av di" and "all tid" belong together as well as "vart...teke opp" might be a group as well.
Because he was such an powerfull warrior, he was welcomed like a ruler at an blacksmith's from Tjøtta, Trorkjell Bjørn, and was always seated at a table with that blacksmith to sit and drink on his doing with his usefull fists (on what he did with his usefull fists?). Trjorkell himself was an old man, but as well he was more a warrior of deed. ("som få" was hard to grab).
What would mean "this translation (nearly) drove me nutts"?
What would mean "this translation (nearly) drove me nutts"?
Alright, as promised, my translation:hovmannen=chieftain?
Av di han var slik ein mektig krigar vart han teke opp som huskar hos hovmannen på Tjøtta, Torkjell Bjørn, - As he was such a mighty warrior he was admitted as housecarl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housecarl) with the chieftain at Tjøtta, Torkjell Bjørn
og fekk til all tid sitja ved hovmannen sitt bord i hans skåle slik nyttige never tidt gjorde - and was for perpetuity allowed to sit by the chieftain's table in his skåle as useful hands oft did
Torkjell sjølv var ein gamal mann, men meir enn nokon var han ein krigarmann som få - Torkjell himself was an old man, but more than anyone else he was a warrior-man "like few" (nonpareil)
:norway: Denne oversettelsen fikk meg (nesten) til å gå fra vettet.
:uk: I think, anyway.
:sweden: alltså, det är intressant, jag tycker att min förståelse av nynorsk är faktisk bättre än denna av bokmål. det kan kanske vara på grund av att jag kan förstå nynorsks stavningen mer än att jag kunde förstå det talade språket—det ser ut som många nynorskstavningarna är lika med svenskstavningarna. på första gången att jag var på den här tråden måste jag slå upp många ord att jag såg men med det där excerpten erkänner jag ord som "nokon" som med bokmålformen (är det "noen"?) hade varit okända till mig. är det sanningen att nynorskstavningarna är närmare till svenskstavningarna än bokmål?
:norway: så er det interessant, tror jeg min forståelse av nynorsk er faktisk bedre enn denna av bokmål. det kan være på grunn av at jeg kan forstå nynorsks staving mer enn jeg kunne forstå det muntlige språket—det ser ut som mange nynorske stavingene er lik med den svenske staving. første gang å jeg var på denne tråden, må jeg slå opp mange ord som jeg så, men med denne excerpten jeg gjenkjenne ord som "nokon" som med bokmålformen (er det "noen"?) hadde vært ukjent for meg. er det sannheten å nynorske staving er nærmere med svenske staving enn bokmål?
:uk: so, it's interesting, i find that my comprehension of nynorsk is honestly better than that of bokmål. that could be because i can understand nynorsk's spelling more than because i can understand the spoken language—it looks like lots of nynorsk spellings are similar to the swedish spelling. the first time i was on this tread, i had to look up a lot of words that i saw, but with that excerpt i recognize words like "nokon" that in the bokmål form ("noen"?) were unfamiliar to me. is it generally true that nynorsk's spellings are closer to swedish spellings than bokmål's?
hovmannen=chieftain?You got it.
Virkelig? Mitt inntrykk er at nynorsk er lengst unna noe annet skandinavisk skriftmål av de to, så det er litt uventet. Men ja, nokon betyr noen
:uk: For real? My impression is that nynorsk is the furthest away from any other Scandinavian written language of the two, so that is a little unexpected. But yeah, nokon means noen.
:uk: hey everyone, great news! as of today my partner and i have tickets to iceland this summer. we're going in june, so i guess it's time for me to start learning icelandic!:iceland: Sæl öll, ég hef frábærar fréttir! Frá og með í dag eru ég og kærasta mín með miða til Íslands í sumar. Við förum í júní, þannig að ég ætti að fara að læra íslensku núna!
:iceland: hæ alla, ég er með frábæra frétta! eins og í dag eru ég og kærasta mín með miða til íslands í sumar. við erum að fara í júní, þannig...ég ætti að læra íslensku nú!
:uk: oh hey, that's a cute way to separate the languages. i think i'm going to steal that and use it myself! so anyway, regarding the best way to learn icelandic, i've started to use university of iceland's course. so far it's definitely been useful. not as good as, i dunno, babbel or duolingo or something like that, but since nobody else has it, it's much better than anything else available.:iceland: Ó, þetta er góð leið til að aðgreina tungumálin! Ég held að ég steli þessu og noti það líka ;) Svo, varðandi hvernig er best að læra íslensku, ég byrjaði í námskeiði háskólans, hingað til hefur það klárlega verið gagnlegt. Ekki eins gott og babbel eða duolingo eða eitthvað svipað, en þar sem enginn annar býður uppá það er það betra en allt annað.
:iceland: ó, það er gott handaband til að greina tungumálin! ég held að ég stela og nota það líka ;) svo, um hvernig er best að læra íslensku, ég hef byrjaði með námskeiði háskólins. svo langt það hefur verið sérlega gagnlegt. ekki eins góð og babbel eða duolingo eða eitthvað svipað, en það er betra en nokkuð annað.
:uk: Hello, I decided to make an account since I noticed there was no representative for Icelandic here...
:uk: I think that's everything. I must say the originals were not too far off!
Sooo you are of Icelandic origin? May I squeeze you with my questions about your countrie the next few weeks? Norsk is hard enough though, I fear I will not start with Icelandic in addition at the moment.
Welcome Yrkill :)
Thank you :)I heard in the news some weeks ago that there's apparently a small party in Iceland that advocates merging with Norway. It's a bit absurd in my Norwegian ears, I mean - for starters Iceland has been Danish until recently, and it's not like the country is going badly or anything. Any thoughts on that?
Yes, I'm Icelandic, born and raised, and I'm ready to answer if you have any questions. Also, yeah I don't expect you to have a high priority learning a language with probably less than 350 thousand speakers, counting non-native ones, even if it will eventually become the main language in our post-apocalyptic future...
I heard in the news some weeks ago that there's apparently a small party in Iceland that advocates merging with Norway. It's a bit absurd in my Norwegian ears, I mean - for starters Iceland has been Danish until recently, and it's not like the country is going badly or anything. Any thoughts on that?
Thank you :)
Yes, I'm Icelandic, born and raised, and I'm ready to answer if you have any questions. Also, yeah I don't expect you to have a high priority learning a language with probably less than 350 thousand speakers, counting non-native ones, even if it will eventually become the main language in our post-apocalyptic future...
:sweden: åh, inte så snabbt! (jag vet inte om det finns nån idiom för det men likväl ska jag använda det!) jag skulle vilja ta reda på några saker på isländska, om du har inte nåt emot. jag ska resa dit i sommar och skulle gärna vara lite duktigare med isländska än en ordinarie turist.
:uk: ah, not so fast! i would love to be able to pick your brain on icelandic, if you don't mind, as i'm going to be travelling there in the summer and i would love to be able to speak a little more than just the regular tourist knowledge.
:iceland: ah, mig langar til að biðja þig nokkurra spurninga um íslensku, ertu huga? ég mun vera að ferðast þar í sumar, og ég vil smá meira en venjulega ferðamannsþekkingu.
Sterke var menn i Bjørneætten, mykje til krigarar hadde dei alltid vori, og få kom opp om Tjøtta sine hovmenn i mannevett og list. Torkjell sjølv sa om Eitil, at han var den største krigar i heila Hålogaland, og at ingen mann skulle nyte betre av gjestfriheita til Torkjell sin ætt enn ham. Torkjell gjorde Eitil til Hersir på dei to drakeskipa sine og gav ham namnet Fimbulvarg, for han tykte at han likna nett på ein diger farleg varg der han gjekk i serk av vargskinn og ei kappe av vargpels.Strongest were men of Bjørneætten, many of them had always been warriors , and some had been raised of Tjøtta's housecarls with reason and list. Tjorkell saw himself that Eitil was the strongest man in all of Hålogaland and if any men should receive best guest rights from Tjorkell's family it should be him (Eitil). Tjorkell made Eitil Herse (another form of viking chieftain) about his dragon shops and gave him the name "Fimbulvarg" (Big, fiery wolf), because he thought he looked like an enormous, ferious wolf as he walked in undershirts/smallclothes (serk was translated as "chemise" which would be womens underwear...) of wolveskin and a cap of wolf fur.
Er det ingen nettstad hvor jeg kan lese barnelitteratur? Nå leser jeg av og til korte satser opp wikipedia.Denna sia (http://folkeeventyr.no/) har en del eventyr og lignande. En del av dem er noe kompliserte men, kanke finne no annet av barnefortellinger på nettet (blant barnehistorieforfattere er nok Thorbjørn Egner den mest kjente blant norske forfattere, sjøl om det for det meste er barnesanger). Forøvrig betyr 'mannevett' no som 'kunnskap' generelt.
(Is there any website where I could read children's storys? At the moment I sometimes reat short sentences on wikipedia).
Eitil tente Torkjell hovmann svært trufast, for Eitil var ein fattig bonde takknemleg for dei gjeve gåvene Torkjell gav, og han slo Torkjell sine fiendar i hel alle som ein. Torkjell Bjørn sin skald, Kolbein den kloke, kvad om den gjeve Eitil:Eitil served Tjorkell as a very faithfull Housecarl, because he was a poor farmer he was thankfull for the gifts received by Tjorkell and he slew all of Tjorkells foes together.
Vreid er varg vore,
Ein valdsam krigar frå Tjøttas vik,
Sit ved Bjørnættens bord,
Ein betre hersir har få i skåle.
Trufast tene Fimbulvarg hovmannen,
Med Vargbittet huggast dei som trettar med ham.
Denna sia har en del eventyr og lignande.Mange tack Fenris, for den sia! Det helper meg.
Strongest were men of Bjørneætten, many of them had always been warriors , and some had been raised of Tjøtta's housecarls with reason and list. Tjorkell saw himself that Eitil was the strongest man in all of Hålogaland and if any men should receive best guest rights from Tjorkell's family it should be him (Eitil). Tjorkell made Eitil Herse (another form of viking chieftain) about his dragon shops and gave him the name "Fimbulvarg" (Big, fiery wolf), because he thought he looked like an enormous, ferious wolf as he walked in undershirts/smallclothes (serk was translated as "chemise" which would be womens underwear...) of wolveskin and a cap of wolf fur.
I found interesting that "mannenvett" was not to be found in my resources, so I translated "mann" and "vett" seperately. In Germany we have the word "Menschenverstand" (like common sense).
Also "gjestfriheit" was not to be found, but as we have "Gastfreiheit" ourselves I translated it by its meaning to guest right. Though that would not fit propperly.
Er det ingen nettstad hvor jeg kan lese barnelitteratur? Nå leser jeg av og til korte satser opp wikipedia.
(Is there any website where I could read children's storys? At the moment I sometimes reat short sentences on wikipedia).
(of children's authors, Thorbjørn Egner is probably the most prolific for norwegian literature, even if most of it is songs). 'Mannevett' means something closer to 'knowledge' than common sense.
The German "Menschenverstand" is also more than just "common sense" but the other translations into english were no closer than this.
Thorbjørn Egner wrote "Karius and Bactus". I have to admit that it was an event I always looked forward to in kindergarten, when the nurses told us what to eat and how to brush our teeth correctly. We always watched that film on an old projector (no beamers in kindergartens of the mid-nineties) and as we nearly never watched films that was kind of a feast day. TV on a white wall!
That movie felt a bit messed up in hindsight. I mean, they are basically brutally exterminated by the end of it.
:norway: Nå har jeg lest hele denne tråden! Det ser ut som om nordlendingen vår, Fimbulvarg, var en hel del mer engasjert i nynorsk enn jeg var. Da jeg endelig fikk tatt nynorsk kastet jeg ordboken i søppelbøtten på vei ut av eksamenslokalet... Modent, sant? Og jeg var 24. :DMy dad writes nynorsk, odds are I probably had him proofread some of it. Anyhow I'm nowhere near as proficient in nynorsk now as I was back then.
Fenris, hvor kommer du fra? Jeg har lagt merke til at når du noen ganger gjentar deg selv i en post, så bruker du forskjellige endinger om hverandre (feiret/feira) og forskjellige former av ord (sjøl/selv). Minner meg litt om den dialektforvirringen jeg har endt opp med, som Hamarsing med stefar fra Oslos beste vestkant, og deretter fem år i Bergen...
Som svar på det tidligere spørsmålet om hvilke høytider man feirer, så går det vel i ikke-religiøs jul, ikke-religiøs fastelavn (mmm, boller med krem) og ikke-religiøse påskeegg i påsken. Sankt Hans har vi ikke tradisjon for på innlandet, og pinse får jeg aldri med meg før jeg står der og skal på butikken og den er stengt... >:( Min mor og stefar er personlig kristne, men vi går ikke i kirken.
:uk: Now I've read the entire thread! It would seem that our northerner, Fimbulvarg, was a lot more engaged in nynorsk than I was. When I'd finally had my nynorsk exam I threw the dictionary in the bin on my way out of the exam room... Mature, right? And I was 24. :D
Fenris, where do you come from? I've noticed that when you sometimes repeat yourself in a post, you use different endings (feiret/feira) and different forms of words (sjøl/selv). Reminds me a bit of the dialect confusion I've ended up with, as a Hamarsing (person from Hamar) with a step dad from the best western part of Oslo, and then five years in Bergen...
As a reply to the earlier question about which holidays we personally celebrate, I partake in non-religious Christmas, non-religious Fastelavn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastelavn) and non-religious easter egg in easter. Sankt Hans is not a thing we have a tradition for in inner Norway, and I never remember pentecost until I stand outside the grocery shop and it's closed... >:( My mother and step dad are christians, but we don't go to church.
Fenris, hvor kommer du fra? Jeg har lagt merke til at når du noen ganger gjentar deg selv i en post, så bruker du forskjellige endinger om hverandre (feiret/feira) og forskjellige former av ord (sjøl/selv). Minner meg litt om den dialektforvirringen jeg har endt opp med, som Hamarsing med stefar fra Oslos beste vestkant, og deretter fem år i Bergen...:norway: Kommer fra Vestfold, bodd her hele livet og begge foreldrane mine er herifra og (dog er fatter fra byn mens muttern er fra bygda, så det er litt forskjell i åssen dem snakker). Grunnen til gjentakelsane og de forskjellige formane er vel egentlig bare at jeg prøver å ikke skrive dialekt, men glemmer meg ganske så ofte. Er ikke så veldig vant til å skrive reint bokmål, siden de siste åra er det for det meste på offentlie ting jeg har gjort det.
Fenris, where do you come from? I've noticed that when you sometimes repeat yourself in a post, you use different endings (feiret/feira) and different forms of words (sjøl/selv). Reminds me a bit of the dialect confusion I've ended up with, as a Hamarsing (person from Hamar) with a step dad from the best western part of Oslo, and then five years in Bergen...
Er kanskje ikke så rart, med tanke på at de fleste nordmenn er fra østlandet (Oslo-området aleine er jo nesten en fjerdedel av befolkninga). Litt artig med tanke på at hele østlandet er utrydda i tegneserien.
Might not be that strange, considering that most Norwegians are from the east (the Oslo area alone is almost a fourth of the population). A bit funny considering that the entire east is extinct in the comic.
De unge bjerkene i svarte byen
Die kleinen Birken in der schwarzen Stadt
The small birches in the black city
I practiced on a poem fenris showed me.
This caught my eye. Doesn't Norwegian (I'm assuming this is Bokmål, right?) have separate words for village and city? In Swedish, atleast to my knowledge, by is clearly a small village while stad is a larger city. Nynorsk seems to have both words, but if the dictionary I'm using is correct they can stand for both village and city.
Could one of you native speakers clear this up for me? Cheers!
Native proficiency in Swedish, Danish and English languages required
What a bunch of absolute [insert 18 extremely profane cusswords] this company is.
Um... are you familiar with Houzz? (I'm not.) Or did they say something extremely stupid/presumptuous in the job posting that I didn't pick up on? (I'm certainly familiar with the phenomenon of companies asking for extravagant qualifications for a relatively modest job.) I apologize if I unknowingly passed along something offensive.
No, it's just hilarious... How can one be natively proficient in both Swedish and Danish? (Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken Swedes and Danes don't exactly have a reputation of loving each other)
Well, a person could have grown up bilingual (say, with one parent from each country). Or have started in one language and learned a second (or more) as a child or teen, developing native-level fluency by adulthood.
You yourself are a good example: English presumably wasn't your first language, but none of us would know it by the ease and correctness you write with. I imagine you probably speak both Italian and Albanian with native-level fluency -- and those languages aren't closely related, the way Swedish and Danish are. (Regardless of Emil's and Tuuri's reactions to spoken Danish...)
I was always told that job postings are like a letter to Santa: You write on it anything you want, just in case he might be generous, but you don't really expect to get everything from that list. And you're happy if more than half of your wishes are fulfilled.
So, I guess they need someone native in Danish or Swedish but with some notions of the other - then why not exaggerate a bit in their "wishes". But maybe I'm just credulous.
Um... are you familiar with Houzz? (I'm not.) Or did they say something extremely stupid/presumptuous in the job posting that I didn't pick up on?
No I'm not, I'm just sullking at the fact that Norwegian is not good enough for them.
Ah. Oooookay. (Backs away quietly, vowing never to say anything disparaging about Norway or Norwegian within earshot of Fimbulvarg.)Especially not if it involves comparisons with Swedes and Danes *twitchy eyes*
I thought about that too, but how many people do you think would be trilingual at a native level? Not nearly enough, since even if there were enough to work at said place, it's not guaranteed that they will even want to work for said company or have the rest of the qualifications.I've never even heard of Danish/Swedish bilingualism (though Finnish/Swedish bilingualism is very common). A childhood friend of mine had a Danish mother/Norwegian father and spoke Danish with a Norwegianised accent. It just seems more common to continue speaking one Scandinavian language but while modifying the accent to make it easier to be understood.
during translating some texts I wondered about some stuff.
1) å => I came over it as part of infintive wich would be like "to", yet it can be an exclamation as well or, according to my little dictionary, it means river or small stream (brook?), too. Yet I wonder, do other usages exist, especially in dialects?
2) "men alt jeg gjør er å sove" would be translated as, "but all I do is sleep [lit. to sleep]"? How would I say "all that I do is sleep". Would it work the same? so no word for "that" would be needed here?
3) som => Is there some way to recognize whether to use it as relative clause or is it just, try out with all the different translations? Most times relative clause, works fine.
Det er alt. Mange takk for deres hjelp. ( Er det korrekt?)
1) As far as I know, no. You sometimes find å instead of og (and), but that is a mistake and you should never, ever do it.
2) You can say "alt det jeg gjør er å sove", translating "that" with "det", but it sounds a little old and you'll usually drop the "det".
3) I'm not really qualified to answer this question, but "som" as a relative clause is usually correct.
Ja, det var korrekt. Godt jobba!
Awww. Jeg er så glad. Du har hjulpet meg.
Especially not if it involves comparisons with Swedes and Danes *twitchy eyes*I have two friends who are bilingual, speaking fluent Swedish and Danish without any prominent accent. In the first case, her parents were Danish (mom) and Swedish (stepdad), in the second case the parents were Danish, but he was raised in Sweden.
I've never even heard of Danish/Swedish bilingualism (though Finnish/Swedish bilingualism is very common). A childhood friend of mine had a Danish mother/Norwegian father and spoke Danish with a Norwegianised accent. It just seems more common to continue speaking one Scandinavian language but while modifying the accent to make it easier to be understood.
Hello, all. A question about Finnish (and please feel free to send me to a more appropriate thread):
What do Finnish children call their parents, equivalent to "Mommy" and "Daddy"? Also "Auntie" and "Uncle"? I'm writing something involving Tuuri as a child, so I'm looking for appropriate terms she might have used at the age of 9 or 10. (Extra points for something that sounds rustic and old-fashioned.)
Why is there no Danish language group here? Could it be because of this?I suspected it was going to be this clip before I clicked the link. It's an amazing skit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk)
http://gizmodo.com/icelandic-has-the-best-words-for-technology-1702697272 (http://gizmodo.com/icelandic-has-the-best-words-for-technology-1702697272) This article talks about Iceland's "language purism" and seemed like something you guys might want to read/discuss~
http://gizmodo.com/icelandic-has-the-best-words-for-technology-1702697272 (http://gizmodo.com/icelandic-has-the-best-words-for-technology-1702697272) This article talks about Iceland's "language purism" and seemed like something you guys might want to read/discuss~
Loðber (= hairy-berry)
Súraldin (= sour-fruit)
Flatbaka (= flat-bake)
Oooo can I start a little guessing game? Guess what the following things are:
Loðber (= hairy-berry)
Súraldin (= sour-fruit)
Flatbaka (= flat-bake)
The Icelandic language purism is kind of notorious. Their word for computer is basically an amalgamation of "number" and "prophetess".
Still better than Finnish tietokone = knowledge machine...
"Electric Boogaloos".
Still better than Finnish tietokone = knowledge machine...Sounds like the Finns read themselves some Vannevar Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memex) quite early on ...
A few warnings regarding the page Beygingarlýsing íslensks nútímamáls (BÍN) although it's a really good tool for any Icelandic learner: you have to write the word in exactly with all accents in place and - if needed - with Icelandic letters. Else the search function won't work, or worse, gives you the wrong answer because one accent can entirely change the meaning of the word.XD so now we know what Reynir was shouting!
If the word you're searching is not in basic form tick the little box that says "Leita að beygingarmynd".
Finally, because Icelandic declensions can occasionally be identical to other words or their declensions, you may end up with a list of words instead of just one. Sadly BÍN does not give you the meanings of the words so from there you'll have to rely on a dictionary.
Example of the above could be f.ex. the sentence Árni á Á á á á á (= Árni from the place Á has sheep by a river), if you use BÍN to look up á and tick the box I mentioned above you'll get five results. :D
XD so now we know what Reynir was shouting!
Well... how hard can it be? ;DI think you mean "hversu erfitt getur það verið?"
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Well... how hard can it be? ;D
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
This might be a difficult question, but how hard would you say learning Icelandic would be for a Norwegian person?
This might be a difficult question, but how hard would you say learning Icelandic would be for a Norwegian person?
Well... on one hand it helps to know Norwegian, because - and I know this is a tired old joke and all - many of the words will look very familiar already except they end with -ur. Vocabulary-wise it'd be fine. There would possibly-maybe-likely be trouble with the grammar though... I mean my mother tongue is Finnish (15 cases) so you'd think four cases is a piece of cake in comparison? Lol nope, because there's also three genders and the case system does not always follow any understandable logic.
It's funny because for a long time I was under the impression that Finnish grammar was a lot more complicated, but I did some research and while Finnish has 15 different cases you only have to learn the singular and plural of each case. When you look at Icelandic, it not only takes into account definiteness, but also gender, number, and whether a noun is weak or strong, so you do actually end up with more endings to memorize. How are Finnish verbs compared to Icelandic verbs?
Well... on one hand it helps to know Norwegian, because - and I know this is a tired old joke and all - many of the words will look very familiar already except they end with -ur. Vocabulary-wise it'd be fine. There would possibly-maybe-likely be trouble with the grammar though... I mean my mother tongue is Finnish (15 cases) so you'd think four cases is a piece of cake in comparison? Lol nope, because there's also three genders and the case system does not always follow any understandable logic.
I guess the best answer I can give is that a person knowing any Scandinavian language has a massive advantage to learning Icelandic, but also that it only takes them so far because they'd go "how hard can it be?" and then crash their spirit into the nearest grammar (I know I did)(Icelandic grammar hurts).
Oh dear lord, cases and genders *sits in the corner and cries*. Makes me grateful for English's kitten-grammar :)
Well, knowing Icelandic would be cool and all but 4 cases and 3 genders gives me some unwelcome flashbacks to German classes. I think I'll have to put it a bit further down on my bucket list :P
One question, as a non-Norwegian curious about learning Norwegian, which dialect would be best to learn?
Norwegian has a massive number of dialects. You would be better of as a foreigner trying to learn the television "standard" (Eastern, but not Oslo dialect) when it comes to spoken Norwegian. It's the equivalent of Received Pronunciation but without the elitist associations. As for the two written standards it's probably best to learn Bokmål since 85% or so of Norwegians use that. The written standards are mainly different with regards to grammar, ortography and vocabulary, not so much syntax.
Found a fun little thing titled "Children's Answers on Christianity Tests", and translated it due to demands from a bossy german.Spoiler: Norwegian • showSpoiler: English • show