The Stand Still, Stay Silent Fan-Forum

Worlds and Stories => SSSS & ARTD Board => Topic started by: Jitter on January 16, 2022, 10:40:07 AM

Title: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on January 16, 2022, 10:40:07 AM
Hello all,

Minna has promised to try and answer questions about SSSS world and at least some of the loose ends in the streams. There isn’t going to be one specific Q&A stream, but she’ll be happy to answer a few each week.

This thread is meant for sharing those answers, so if you go on the stream and ask something, or get someone else’s question and answer, please share here.

You can also post your most burning questions here if you can’t or don’t want to go to the stream, I ma be able to ask some of them.

I can’t promise I will be attending each and every stream, but I try to catch the majority of them for the time being. They are relaxed and I like watching her draw, even though it’s been bunnies and pokemons lately. I’ll let you know if it get e.g. religious in which case I will stop.

It is however not a task I promise to take care of! Plus anyone else is more than welcome to post here too.

Anyways here are a couple from this week.

Q: what is the cure to the Rash?
A: nothing, there was never going to be a cure found. The only cure is a bullet to the head.

Q: will Onni ever have a girlfriend?
A: you can write whatever you want for any of the characters, I’m not pro or against any fan interpretation for the future

Q: in the illustration for book 3 Reynir seems to be casting a stave. Can he do that, or learn to do that?
A: maybe in the dreamworld he can? In the real world they need to be drawn or carved on something  (Apparently this was not something Minna had a firm plan about, she gave it a bit of thought)

Q: can the Finnish mages ask for nature spirits to help?
A: that’s pretty much all they do
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: thorny on January 16, 2022, 10:59:08 AM
Thanks, Jitter! and yes, of course, just go to whichever streams you were going to anyway.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Sherval on January 16, 2022, 03:12:47 PM
Quote
Q: what is the cure to the Rash?
A: nothing, there was never going to be a cure found. The only cure is a bullet to the head.

That's quite... depressing. But it does make sense, because the moment a cure would be found, the world could start healing itself and the story would end there. Of course, that process alone would take years (even decades) to accomplish and could (or rather would) be worthy of its own story in SSSS canon...

But yeah, I can also understand the idea of not providing an instant fix to everything. For one, like I said before, it would end the story as it has been thus far (or rather, force it into certain direction compared to not having the cure, which is far less restricting). And two, it would've been quite cliche.

I DID hope that there wouldn't be an insta cure available at the end of adventure 2, because that would've been some Disney movie level of happy ending. Rushed, sloppy and indeed very cliche. But the idea that there was NEVER going to be one at all is another thing entirely.

Of course, there's always room for speculation; *clears her throat, digs up her roll of tinfoil, folds it neatly into a boat shaped hat and then puts it on*: it's always possible, that there USED to be some kind of an idea for the eventual cure, before Minna scrapped that idea entirely at some point. The same way any further SSSS stories got scrapped here.

IIRC, didn't the experimental vaccine in ADV 1 technically stop people from mutating into trolls? I have this memory in my head about Mikkel saying something about "different bone structure" on the bodies that had used the vaccine. The vaccine couldn't save their lives, got their souls stuck in a limbo but, IIRC, it DID stop the mutation, right?

Of course, that vaccine itself could've always been meant as a mere plot devise to explain the murder ghosts, nothing more. But the idea that that vaccine was never even CONSIDERED to be something that would've been refined in later stories (or alternatively, some other vaccine from elsewhere)... Well, perhaps that was indeed the case. Or perhaps it was considered as an option at some point, before getting ultimately scrapped, in order to keep the SSSS world's status quo as is for all eternity ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on January 16, 2022, 04:00:51 PM
One thing Minna mentioned quite recently, maybe some mont or two ago is also that she has forgotten many of the ideas she may have had before. Not just now, when she had decided to end here, but also before. It is a part of her process apparently.

And she has scrapped ideas that may have been major. An example she mentioned is the omen both Reynir and Lalli saw in Adventure 1. When she made that page, she had ideas how omens would be a major element, maybes it was something about different omen-creatures. But it was something she dropped long ago.

So some of the things we think about as foreshadowing may have been like that, initially intended but later scrapped, some maybe sorta intentional but forgotten, and some are probably just in the eye of the beholder.

There are also at least some things Minna has used but never completely designed. I kind of think the nature of the Rash is one of those things. Since she wasn’t going to introduce a cure, she didn’t need an exact explanation of what causes it. Maybe she has more information than is revealed in the comic, but it looks likely she doesn’t have it down to details.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: thorny on January 16, 2022, 07:02:38 PM
Yeah, I think the Rash may have all along been a Black Box Plot Device. Minna may never either have known or have tried to work out what caused it, how it works aside from the effects she wanted for the story, or how or if it would end. She may well have just been interested in telling stories in a world affected by the Rash in certain ways; and of course a world that's found a cure wouldn't be that world, so might have been/be useless to her.

Some of her fans would feel unhappy to be themselves devising a world in which such an important plot element has no explanation whatsoever, even in the artist's mind. If I'm working something out for a story, even something I never expect to get out of my own head, some part of my head thinks it's necessary to try to work out at least a handwavium explanation for such things. But not everyone's mind works that way, and I don't think Minna's does.

-- it occurs to me that a world that did find a cure would still be massively shaped for quite some time by the experience of having gone through the Rash times; and also that, even if the cure worked on people who had been trollified for over 90 years, there would be large portions of the planet with effectively no functioning human society. Most people in the Silent World would of course have died; and unless the cure also brought amnesia, any cured trollified surviving people would be massively traumatized by the time they'd spent as trolls. The post-cure societies that resulted would probably not be much at all like the pre-year-0 societies. A lot of interesting possible stories there.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on January 16, 2022, 08:48:22 PM
First, thank you Jitter for doing this! Even if you aren't able to, um, religiously attend every stream, it's cool that you're willing to toss questions in on our behalf.

I'm mildly amused to hear that Minna is drawing Pokemon since based on the announcement of CoH's cancellation, I had figured she was done with video games for good.



I find it a little bit hard to believe that Minna had no purpose in mind for the incomplete cure that the crew found in Adventure 1. But maybe Sherval is right and its only point was to explain the murderghosts.

Regardless, my headcanon will probably always be that the cure failed because of some magic-related reason that they couldn't have known about in Y0 but are capable of solving in Y90. Eventually they learn how to use it to cure people before they trollify. I don't think they would be able to use this to cure existing grosslings. But the fact that they can stop new ones from being created would be a huge deal.

(for the record, even if Minna had eventually brought up the "cure" again, I don't think it would have been until the end of the last adventure, as either an "epilogue" item or fodder for a final arc)

IIRC, didn't the experimental vaccine in ADV 1 technically stop people from mutating into trolls? I have this memory in my head about Mikkel saying something about "different bone structure" on the bodies that had used the vaccine. The vaccine couldn't save their lives, got their souls stuck in a limbo but, IIRC, it DID stop the mutation, right?

Yes. IIRC the "different bone structure" thing was Mikkel's observation that while the people who had received the "cure" had been infected with the Rash, they hadn't died from it. (i.e. they probably died of thirst)
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: JoB on January 17, 2022, 03:05:41 AM
IIRC, didn't the experimental vaccine in ADV 1 technically stop people from mutating into trolls?
Cure, not a vaccine. It stopped the bodily modifications, and thus at least the patients acting out any mental corruption, but they would then suffer brain death (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=619).

I have this memory in my head about Mikkel saying something about "different bone structure" on the bodies that had used the vaccine.
While it is true that the cure had been used on those bodies (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=417), he pronounced the changes to the bones as an effect of The Illness.

One thing Minna mentioned quite recently, maybe some mont or two ago is also that she has forgotten many of the ideas she may have had before. Not just now, when she had decided to end here, but also before. It is a part of her process apparently.
Reminds me of the interim title she had for SSSS that she never told anyone because it was way too spoilery, and had entirely forgotten about later on ...
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Maple on January 20, 2022, 10:34:12 PM
Yeah, I think the Rash may have all along been a Black Box Plot Device. Minna may never either have known or have tried to work out what caused it, how it works aside from the effects she wanted for the story, or how or if it would end.

I think that works for this canon though. The Rash isn't some obstacle to be overcome, it's a part of everyday life. A force of nature to be mindful of. It informs the setting, and it helps establish why characters act the way they do, but it doesn't overtake the story entirely. And I think that's what sets SSSS apart from a lot of 'zombie canons' and gives it its own distinctive flair: the zombies aren't the enemy, they're just a part of the setting. You can avoid them entirely if you're mindful about them.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: thorny on January 21, 2022, 11:53:33 AM
Maple, that's a very good point. And I think it's some of why I liked SSSS so much, when I'm not interested in most zombie stuff: it's not primarily about fighting zombies. It's just about living in that world.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on January 21, 2022, 01:36:57 PM
In addition to the zombies not being the enemy, there is no enemy at all. There isn’t a slightest indication of any human on human violence, after Y0 and the Icelandic coast guard. It’s possible such is not unheard of, but it’s certainly not a feature of the story. Many zombie and other apocalypse stories are at least as much about the infighting among the survivors as coping with the disaster.

This reminds me of a question. Why is the Finnish army in Keuruu, while most of the population is at Saimaa? In a war situation it may be beneficial to separate the two, in the hopes that the enemy will attack the troops and the people may stay safe. But here they are not dealing with an enemy that would make coordinated attacks or have any sort of strategy. Wouldn’t it make sense to have troops where they could defend the villages? Or at least have A village at the fortress? (There are no civilian families, or military families either, as Tuuri hadn’t seen children for years).
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: thorny on January 21, 2022, 04:34:40 PM
Maybe that's just how it happened to work out sometime in years 1 - 10 or so, and they've never re-thought it?

Maybe they don't want the military controlling day-to-day civilian lives, and think mixing them in might cause that to happen?

(Maybe I don't know?)
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: lwise on January 21, 2022, 05:33:35 PM
Maybe they're working on setting up a settlement there, since transportation is easier from there.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: tehta on January 21, 2022, 05:47:57 PM
Maybe they're working on setting up a settlement there, since transportation is easier from there.

I agree, they might well be carrying out some sort of cleansing/reclamation effort. Or maybe that area is so dangerous that it requires constant military presence, and it is important/useful for some reason? (Transportation, maybe, as you say. The map shows nothing special, otherwise.)
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on January 21, 2022, 08:21:09 PM
The central island in Keuruu is the only place in Finland marked safe on the map. Why doesn’t anyone live there, as in properly settled? Do they have something there? A secret??

Also it seems that being a warrior is a lifetime calling (however long or short the lifetime), so it would make sense or there to be some military families at least. Unless the Secret is very dangerous so the families are sent elsewhere.

Hmm hmmmmmm
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: JoB on January 22, 2022, 02:59:29 AM
(There are no civilian families, or military families either, as Tuuri hadn’t seen children for years).
Tuuri was a non-immune in a place with a 92% immunity rate, and a central area designated "civilian quarters" (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=70), even though civilians made up less than a fifth of the population. There is some cleansing going on (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=86), but no explanation is ever offered why they'd be doing that in a place so hard to reach from the other Finnish population centers. There is considerable export of timber from Pori, but I'm not convinced that that alone makes a stronghold that far off inland worthwhile.

Keuruu was already in existence when the kade wiped out a significant part of the Saimaa settlements, otherwise I'd theorize that that incident made the post-Rash Finns want not to put all their eggs in a single basket.

One possible hint is that the Keuruu-Pori waterway is explicitly said to be "safer than the Saimaa canal", so it might be a long-term project to move the population center to a place with better connections to the Known World, or trailblaze a direct Keuruu-Saimaa connection later on.

Keuruu is a tad more Northern than Saimaa Central, but still South of Joensuu and (the secondary population center of) Eno, so I doubt that it's an attempt at establishing a refuge fort in a colder (= grossling-unfriendlier) place.

Not an overwhelming lot of pre-Rash history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keuruu#Culture) to make it worth keeping hold of, I'm afraid, but of course there is the possibility that the initial post-Rash settlement of Keuruu was an early wherever-we-can-stop-running-from-the-horrors one, like Saimaa-the-new-capital-of-Finland apparently was, and that the Y90 military position just grew out of that.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Róisín on January 22, 2022, 06:23:58 AM
Doesn’t the area around our-world Keuruu have some sort of military base? Maybe sheer inertia?
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: JoB on January 22, 2022, 08:11:55 AM
Doesn’t the area around our-world Keuruu have some sort of military base? Maybe sheer inertia?
... I can find references to activities of an engineer regiment (https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Finnish_Army_units), NBC trainings of the Rapid Deployment Forces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Rapid_Deployment_Force#Conscript_training), the Explosives Centre (https://logistiikkalaitos.fi/en/explosives-centre), etc. etc. in Keuruu, but it seems that the outright base they had there has been axed (https://yle.fi/news/3-5297442) (and apparently repurposed (http://motorsport-solutions.com/keuruu-insideservice/)) ...
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on January 22, 2022, 09:40:05 AM
Pioneerirykmentti, the engineering regiment, ended in 2014! So it has been operational in the assumed Y0 of 2013, and during Minna’s planning phase. Now it makes a bit more sense, since real-life Keuruu doesn’t really hold much interest. Maybe Minna wanted a basic small town with an island in the center area and ended up with Keuruu for no particular reason, or maybe it was a mix of the base and the relative non-interest otherwise.

The nuclear power plant at Olkiluoto, fairly close to Pori, was clearly shut down in an orderly fashion in Y0.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on January 22, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
EDITED several times


Q: questions about the Kade, and what happened with the kadettes

A: the remaining Kade souls fled somewhere with no people to try and hunt them, far out into the wilderness. They may gather back together to form a Kade again, the original soul is not needed. Since a Kade gets stronger when it gets more souls, the net effect was positive. And in this case the remaining souls went further away from humans so that’s good too. It’s also possible they just get confused and float away, not becoming a new Kade at all.

In the prologue the Kade is just walking (wafting) in the woods killing birds and being evil, because that’s how they roll. It’s a relaxing pastime for such evil creatures. It was used to show that it is evil and has a gaze weapon.

The shrouds or pieces of cloth around the Kade are just remnants of what the absorbed mages were wearing, robes and such. I asked if the markings were magical, not as such although “some of the mages may have had magic symbols on their clothing”.

Minna didn’t even remember having drawn the original person who became the Kade. It was just someone with the genetics to become a mage, but got infected early on. She also didn’t remember mentioning the emergency exorcism at all. So, more of the not-quite-as-important-foreshadowing as we thought :)

Oh and the kadettes helped mama bear because they were grateful for the help the bears had given them

Q: string magic

Onni’s spell was exactly what it looked like, a detector. It was inspired by historical practice of driving wolves with fishing line strung between trees. The string spell around the Package was a different thing, “they have probably nothing to do with each other”. No clear answer as to whether other spells exist but they may.

Minna said she makes up the magic stuff when she comes across it and doesn’t have a detailed system prepared.

Q: is Surma one creature or a type or class of giant?

A: “hmm, I’m not really sure. I think it’s just the one. But I suppose there could be some others. It’s the only one encountered so far at least, so now it’s the one boss type creature.”

Q: tokens the team left with Väinö

A: The piece of jewelry was Sigrun’s. Minna said she was thinking it’s some sort of family heirloom, but that Sigrun may well like jewelry like that. Shiny things!

The similar luonto statues Onni and Lalli had may be one’s gift to another, or maybe they had some woodworking class together or something and made them together. When asking for clarification, “did they give them to each other” Minna asked “do you think Lalli gives gifts to other people” after which there was a little discussion on the chat but nothing further from Minna. It was estimated (by the chat) that Lalli might actually give a birthday present or something to someone close.

Q: how much toilet paper are they carrying, or do they use leaves like total barbarians?

A: they use leaves. There’s lot of water around to wash hands so it’s not too bad.

Note I didn’t ask all the questions  :reynir:
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: lwise on January 22, 2022, 03:08:33 PM
"The string spell around the Package"

What is that?  I don't remember a special package.  But then, there's well over a thousand pages so it's easy to forget.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on January 22, 2022, 03:22:28 PM
The package Hilja carried the beast rat into Toivosaari was shielded by a spell that appears to consist of string tied around the package with plant and bird parts tied into it. This happens in Lalli’s flashback.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: lwise on January 22, 2022, 03:38:35 PM
Ah, thank you.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on February 05, 2022, 05:42:35 PM
Stream on 5th February 2022

Q: is Mikkel actually a secret agent and a master of disguises?
A: Haha no, Mikkel is just a silly character. There are no secret agents in SSSS, who would they on and why?

Minna didn't comment further about the fence pole shooting thing even though I asked. But she did mention that my line ended in the middle of a sentence (which it did) and that could be because Mikkel makes sure to not be exposed. So, maybe he's just so very secret?

Q: Lalli and Emil's friendship - why is it missing? Are they fighting or something?
A: Uuuh, I guess I've just been really bad balancing everyone's interactions.
Q: So it's not intentional that they have been less special? (I mean friendship, not the shipping version).
A: (laughs at the "shipping version"). No, it's not like they are having a fight or anything. I guess I've just not been enthusiastic enough to work out a lot of the character stuff for the last however long it's been. I've been having my existential crisis, which led to my conversion.

Q: Were you planning something more about Lalli and Emil's dream connection?
A: That was probably one of the plot points which I kind of dropped. I think I meant to use it as a way for Lalli, Emil and Reynir to meet and talk.

She had forgotten that they were all in Lalli's childhood flashback, when she was reminded she said "ok I guess I did use it for what it was intended to."

Q: What about the fire in Emil's dream?
A: That was one of the plot points I would have extended upon if we had visited Emil's home town. I hadn't decided about the details, but it would have been important and tragic happenings. I hadn't exactly planned what would have been burning and why.
(Upon further questions) The fire definitely had something to do with the Västerströms becoming poor. It was probably something to do with the research facility in the town.
Emil's mom did not die in that fire, it was to be important but not tragic that way. Emil's mom is however dead, but she would have died when Emil would have been really young. Also Emil did not cause the fire.

Q: Research facility?? Did his family have special ties to it? Did they establish it?
No, I think Emil's father was just working there.

Minna didn't have details about Emil's mom's death. She said that she would have figured a proper backstory, balancing between overly dramatic and just some really ridiculous cause of death. Then she came up with something on the spot. She actually pronounced it canon in the discussion. Mom had been fed up with dad working too much at the research facility, and committed arson to get rid of the facility. When she was fleeing the scene, she slipped on ice and broke her neck, and died!

So, Emil's a pyromaniac because it's hereditary.

Q: Would adventure 5 have happened in Iceland?
A: No, I don't think I have ever planned an adventure to happen in Iceland. What would they do there? Except visit, like they just did?

Q: Can you tell something about Sigrun's life before the mission?
A: I have no idea, I had not planned that in any detail. She's from a typical, fun, Norwegian hunting town.

Q: The idea of "death of the author", that everyone who reads or sees something makes up their own mind about it.
A: Uf, I hate that, it's the stupid "everyone's truth is their own" thing! I subscribe to the idea that the person who says or writes something is the one who gets to decide what is meant by it.


Q: some people have been worried the site will go down when you are finished?
A: No, it's on the Hiveworks servers and they will keep it up. I'll do what they need me to do to help, but they will take care of it.

The comments will be closed two weeks after opening. Minna made it clear she wants SSSS and the site causing as little disturbance for her new life as possible, she'll just do what Hiveworks needs her to. She doesn't want to be bothered by the need to moderate the comments etc.

Q: Do you know how many pages there will be in the final epilogue?
A: Not really. I would have said like 12, but there is some delay with the kickstarter, it was supposed to start in January but now it's delayed. I had planned my pages to last through it, but now I don't know if I should make some more pages. I don't want to just throw up my arms and leave it just at the end. We'll see, it will be something between 12 and 20 pages. I try not to think about it too much, it's messed up.

Topazpearl (who was asking many of the questions, thanks) mentioned that it's ok if she takes a break while the kickstarter is being prepared, but she said she doesn't want to do that either.

Q: When you do come to the end, please make it clear which page is the last one, so people don't need to be left wondering.
A: Yeah, definitely, probably I'll make the last page a "This is the end, good bye!"

Q: Would you do a fake beard and moustache for SSSS characters stream? (thinking aloud what to draw in future streams)
A: No, that would be boring


All in all, she was admitting in her own words that she had been uninterested in developing the character interactions. So let's not read too much into it. Also she's really not sounding keen about the extended epilogue, so let's keep our expectations modest.

Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: ScrimmyBingusPSVitaPort on February 06, 2022, 12:22:02 AM
Well, that explains a lot :/

Thanks for keeping the rest of us up to speed regardless, Jitter!
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: thorny on February 06, 2022, 09:43:46 AM
Stream on 5th February 2022

Q: What about the fire in Emil's dream?
A: [ . . . ] Emil's mom is however dead, but she would have died when Emil would have been really young.
[ . . .]
Then she came up with something on the spot. She actually pronounced it canon in the discussion. Mom had been fed up with dad working too much at the research facility, and committed arson to get rid of the facility. When she was fleeing the scene, she slipped on ice and broke her neck, and died!

That's flat out contradictory. Yeah, she just isn't paying attention any longer.

And yes, thanks, Jitter.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on February 06, 2022, 10:49:26 AM
That's flat out contradictory. Yeah, she just isn't paying attention any longer.

And yes, thanks, Jitter.

Yes, she literally built that during the stream (and she did notice it wouldn’t have been at a very young age for Emil). I think it was more of a joke, even when she said ”you know, this is now canon.”

It does go to show her way of writing. She has some ideas, but only loosely formed, and would further develop them when she gets to it. It has also become very clear she has happily forgotten many details we the fans have been very keen on :) This is apparently quite a typical situation, fans tend to see Chekhov’s guns a lot more often than the authors do :) She doesn’t have a system for keeping tabs on references and foreshadowing so when she forgets she forgets.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: tehta on February 06, 2022, 10:49:37 AM
Thank you so much, Jitter!

One implication I am sort of seeing there: that the 12-page epilogue is not a series of one-offs, but something planned out? (And maybe related to what we see on last week's page?)

Also, I agree that the Emil story seems confusing, but the idea that Emil's mother is the one who started the fire is intriguing... And, hey, no word on why Emil's father is out of Emil's life?
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: lwise on February 06, 2022, 01:35:06 PM
Maybe the mother started a fire, and died running away, but did not start the final fire.

Actually, I'd prefer to think that this is Minna's joke and not canon.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on February 06, 2022, 04:45:43 PM
Personally,  I’m inclined to think only what is shown “on screen” in the comic is actually canon. When she hasn’t prepared it but just thinks it up there and then, it’s definitely less canonical than actually prepared content.

I’m not sure if I want to ask anything more about the mages and magic, in the fear it will cause her ro make a hasty call. Any thoughts?

Also, Mikkel’s secret career wouldn’t be secret anymore, if she went around streams admitting it on the record! So, of course she would deny it, but does that make it less or more likely to be true? Hmm?
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Suominoita on February 06, 2022, 06:36:22 PM
Well, maybe they went to Keuruu because Veeti used to live there? Their one known relative even if he's as distant as their grandmother's cousin. Old one, not living long after that.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Kevin_Redcrow on February 06, 2022, 08:37:55 PM
Maybe the mother started a fire, and died running away, but did not start the final fire.

Actually, I'd prefer to think that this is Minna's joke and not canon.

Ever  since I first read the dream sequence with Emil, Lalli, and the fire; I assumed that the fire was simply an incidental touch.

Emil says something to Lalli like, "The dream always ends before the fire gets here".

This is not unlike the rando things everybody sees in their dreams which have nothing to do with the dream itself.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: thorny on February 07, 2022, 12:06:40 AM
Interesting. I always assumed that the dream ended before the fire arrived because whatever happened with the fire was so traumatic that something in Emil's mind protected him by waking him before he had to relive it.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: tehta on February 07, 2022, 01:34:05 AM
The fact that he says "BEFORE it gets here" suggests that he expects that the fire would get there, at some point. It could be just that it is moving closer, so having it reach the house eventually is an interpolation, but I prefer the explanation that Emil has seen the fire reach the house at some point, in reality.

Anyway, the mansion burning down is a good way for his family to lose their money. Although I am not sure how this would have affect Torb and Siv, who obviously did not live there. I suppose they might have been receiving a stipend from Emil's dad? Also, the timing really does get confusing, if the fire was set by Helga: if she was alive while Emil ate his lonely meals, why wasn't she there or even mentioned? (I suppose it could be that she was also a pretty neglectful parent, to the point that Emil and Emil's nanny stopped expecting her to show up.)
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Róisín on February 07, 2022, 01:49:24 AM
I think I remember Minna saying, very early on, that one of the prologue characters was still alive in year 90, though very old? Since by then I think Ensi was known to be dead or otherwise gone, I think I had presumed it was Veeti?
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: wavewright62 on February 07, 2022, 01:50:31 AM
Well, maybe they went to Keuruu because Veeti used to live there? Their one known relative even if he's as distant as their grandmother's cousin. Old one, not living long after that.

We don't know a lot about Veeti in canon. He was somewhere between 8-12 at Y0 and we have no details what happened after that except that he and his wife had a daughter in Y49 (Taru's age was given as 41 for Adv 1, in Y90).  So he lived until at least his late 50s.  His daughter went into the military, and so I imagine you're correct that they are the connection to Keuruu.  We're not sure how long before the events of the story Taru left its employ - although she hadn't been based in Keuruu for the last 11 years, and she appeared well-versed in the protocols involved in dealing with the Nordic Council by Y90.  She could have been sent to Reykjavik at intervals while her refugee cousins were growing up in Keuruu.
Spoiler: show
 ("I told you people to dress respectably!")  On the other hand, Taru was under the impression that a monocle and pearls was respectable dress for dealing with the Council, so maybe that was her first time actually fronting the show.


(Even as I write that, I have to sigh at the futility of analysing these details at this late stage of the proceedings.)

Thanks again to Jitter for transcribing these comments from Minna.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on February 07, 2022, 06:45:32 AM
Tehta, it’s his dream so the sequence of events could be scrambled. Combination of his two big traumas, missing parents and the fire, could be in a changed order.

However I’m not going to take the mum part as canon. The important thing we didn’t know about yet was that Emil did not start the fire. This was something Minna didn’t need to consider at all.

This is not to say that a fanfic interpretation of the event could not have him do it nevertheless.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: tehta on February 07, 2022, 07:48:47 AM
I agree that Emil's dream could (and likely is) conflating many events. However, I was assuming that the 'rich kid neglected by his workaholic father and semi-comforted by the help' experience was not a conflation, but something that he did live through, probably repeatedly. (I don't see how to easily separate the 'rich' and 'comforted by the help' parts.) To me, that idea that Emil's mother died at the same time as his father's job and wealth went away (which is what Minna said) implies that the mother should have been alive when he was being neglected/comforted, so why wasn't she mentined? It feels like a bigger plot-hole to me than Minna's wish to half-orphan Emil early.

The thing I said about the fire reaching the house was meant as an explanation of how a fire in a research facility, or even just in town, could have turned a rich family into a poor one.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on February 07, 2022, 09:56:12 AM
She probably didn’t remember the specifics, i.e. that there wouldn’t likely be a nanny acter becoming poor.

I (as well as Topazpearl, who tried to get more info) was particularly interested in “the research facility” which was dropped like it was a known thing. Have we been aware of such? I mean Siv is working in on, but that can’t be what was meant as this facility was in Östersund, had to do with the Västerströms fortune, and burned down when Emil was a child.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: tehta on February 07, 2022, 10:35:28 AM
The nanny/housekeeper said that Emil's dad's job was very important. She didn't say what it was, though...

This is all odd to me because, in Minna's place, I would absolutely keep a file of all the information I had shared with readers about anything of importance. But different people have different processes, and I suspect her rather intuitive process is one that can work beautifully, as long as the author keeps her brain immersed in her work.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on February 07, 2022, 10:51:28 AM
Yeah, she said a couple of weeks ago that “next time I do a long form comic I need to set up a system to keep tabs of the references and ideas” or something like that. So, she definitely doesn’t have one of those now.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: lwise on February 07, 2022, 11:28:48 AM
Emil had tutors, then went to public school for about two years, then joined the Cleansers and served for about two years.  Since he was 19 when the first adventure started, that means he was 14 or 15 when he stopped having tutors.  He wouldn't have had tutors after the family became poor, so that can't have happened while he was a small child.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: thorny on February 07, 2022, 01:12:47 PM
The thing I said about the fire reaching the house was meant as an explanation of how a fire in a research facility, or even just in town, could have turned a rich family into a poor one.

If the family's money was tied up in funding the research facility, or otherwise in things in town, then it could easily have happened. Especially if the fire did damage to other people, and the family was held responsible and therefore had to pay for that.

Plus which, if the fire was close enough that it could have spread to the house, then either the house was in or right next to the town, or the research facility wasn't in town and instead was close to and/or on the same property as the house.

Emil had tutors, then went to public school for about two years, then joined the Cleansers and served for about two years.  Since he was 19 when the first adventure started, that means he was 14 or 15 when he stopped having tutors.  He wouldn't have had tutors after the family became poor, so that can't have happened while he was a small child.

In addition, if they'd become poor when he was a small child, then he'd have grown up being poor; it wouldn't have come as a shock to him, and he'd have learned the habits mostly of poor people, not of rich ones (though his parents might have kept some of the habits of rich people, which might still have affected him. But his mother's habits couldn't have continued to affect him if she was already dead --)
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Suominoita on February 08, 2022, 03:11:54 AM
So...
Emil's mother died earlier and his workaholic father left him in the care of the helo?
Or maybe his mother liked shopping (a..ka. "burning money").

Or, if it was a real fire, maybe Emil managed to get some attention because of the fire (due to his parent worrying that he might have died or something) and that's how his pyromaniac tendencies began even if he didn't quite realize those before he went to the Cleansers. He keeps having that same dream over and over.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: tehta on February 08, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
In addition, if they'd become poor when he was a small child, then he'd have grown up being poor; it wouldn't have come as a shock to him, and he'd have learned the habits mostly of poor people, not of rich ones (though his parents might have kept some of the habits of rich people, which might still have affected him. But his mother's habits couldn't have continued to affect him if she was already dead --)

A very good point. I think becoming poor at 14/15 makes absolutely the most sense in terms of character.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: NightMareMage on April 03, 2022, 01:21:18 PM
I take the "this is cannon now" comment as a joke. That said, I think the idea that Helga started the fire could be great for fanfiction but would likely not have worked well in cannon. It would be a very diffent kind of family drama then SSSS has given us and could easily feel off tone (if that makes sense). That said, if it had to have happened, I don't think Emil would know about it.
Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: dreki on October 01, 2022, 02:15:50 AM
You can start fires by accident.  Like knocking over a candle, or tossing a cigarette in the trash.

When I was 9 I threw out a blown out match in a trash bag that had newspaper in it.  Burned a hole through the vinyl tile.

I know it's not what Minna said but I can see a jilted, spoiled person doing something in anger and leaving the room and not considering the ramifications.


I think I remember Minna saying, very early on, that one of the prologue characters was still alive in year 90, though very old? Since by then I think Ensi was known to be dead or otherwise gone, I think I had presumed it was Veeti?

The swedish kid (Mia?) makes a lot of sense. We know the family became very wealthy, which means good food and healthcare. The Swedish lineage seems the least touched by the trolls and such. 

Otherwise it basically has to be Taru's ancestor (Veeti?)

Emil had tutors, then went to public school for about two years, then joined the Cleansers and served for about two years.  Since he was 19 when the first adventure started, that means he was 14 or 15 when he stopped having tutors.  He wouldn't have had tutors after the family became poor, so that can't have happened while he was a small child.

One thing to consider is that they didn't necessarily lose everything at once - it's not unlikely they suffered a massive financial blow then continued overspending for a few years.

I imagine tutors would be one of the last things they'd cave on.

So it is possible that the dream is a memory of the day they lost the mansion, and most of their possessions, in a fire - and then they spent a few years trying to believe they were still wealthy before it finally got so bad they had to put Emil in regular school.

It's also possible they tried homeschooling for awhile.  Either until realizing they couldn't be bothered - or until realizing how utterly uneducated their son was.




Title: Re: Loose ends and other questions and Minna’s answers
Post by: Jitter on October 01, 2022, 07:04:56 AM
Dreki, that makes sense. The mansion itself could not have been a source of income. When Minna was talking / joking about this, she mentioned “THE research center” (emphasis mine) so it seems to me she had some idea what it was they made their money on, but didn’t want to share it anymore.

I haven’t been to the streams for a long while now and don’t much care for it, but if someone still has a question to pose directly to her, I can try to do it. She did promise she’ll answer questions about SSSS whenever someone asks, although this whole fire starting thing shows it’s not necessarily properly canon anymore.