Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat

[lwise]

I have this horrible feeling that Surma is going to pop up again and we're going to be treated with yet more pages of Surma vs Mama Bear.

Honestly, I don't see how anything but a deus ex machina is going to save the party from Mama Bear.

Also, how incredibly wrong was Onni about his chances against the Kade!

[catbirds]

Surma was just trying to get some peace and quiet. (Though I suppose they've got it now. At least, if that kind of troll can be killed by drowning.)

And Mama Bear was just trying to care for her babies; and will never be able to do so again.

Yeah, if anything, one of my biggest problems with this adventure and maybe the series as a whole has been its treatment of monsters. But it was a lot more toned-down in adventure 1, with a lot less emotional development for the monsters as there has been with the bears.

And if Minna's been some sort of background Christian all her life: wasn't she already baptized? Or is it likely that her family are members of an adult-baptism sect? Or is the theory that the first baptism didn't count for some reason? Or do Christians sometimes get re-baptized, sort of like married people renewing their vows? Though I don't suppose I'll get answers to any of that either; except maybe the last, as it seems likely there's somebody on these boards who knows the answer to that.

I've had a couple of friends choose to get baptized well into their teen years. Apparently doing it by choice is different from being an infant, though also it depends on what sect you're a part of maybe? IDK, there's a lot of Christian sects, and almost every one has some fundamental difference that makes all the difference to some. See this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believer%27s_baptism

[Róisín]

If I understand correctly, Minna and her family have been standard Lutheran all along, but she became involved with one of the more extreme sects of Christian, and thus was baptised, either for the first time or into that particular sect - I dunno. In any case, it is her individual soul and her god, so as far as I am concerned, not my business. I can only wish her luck, and hope that she survives without taking too much long-term harm.

 At least she doesn’t seem to have succumbed to one of the Christian sects that forbid all representational art as ‘sinful’, citing the Old Testament prohibition of ‘thou shalt not make unto thyself any graven images’, which I had thought to mean originally ‘don’t make idols’, but which has been creatively misinterpreted to mean ‘don’t make art’. Perhaps by the same kind of grim Calvinists who forbade dancing and singing because people enjoyed them? I figure that if singing and dancing was good enough for the biblical King David it should have been good enough for them, but there seemed to be a concept in that mindset that anything people enjoyed doing was innately evil. Urgh. I have noticed that some of the grimmer sects of Islam have the same prohibition on representational art, giving a similar justification.

But then I’m a lifelong Pagan and hold that talents are to be used and developed for your own growth and for the good of the world.

[JoB]

If Minna's end of Adventure II is as flat as it may turn out to be - no further interaction with our crew, no apparent character development or glimpses of possible futures

... then it wouldn't happen "around January/February" IMHO, but right now. I mean, if mommy continues to fight, there currently isn't anyone but the team for her to go up against, and if she trots off instead, we're left with the team and their need to return to civilization. We'd need either a new monster ex machina to engage Kaunoinen or a switch to an entirely different theater to avoid getting the team involved.

(Yes, yes, there is the possibility of Surma still being alive, but the current page would be downright pointless if Surma were to get back up right away.)

I have this horrible feeling that Surma is going to pop up again

I have to admit that, with Kaunoinen having landed with a CRUNCH! on what now looks like it has been Surmas chest, that ribcage in the last panel still looks amazingly convex ...

[tehta]

... then it wouldn't happen "around January/February" IMHO, but right now. I mean, if mommy continues to fight, there currently isn't anyone but the team for her to go up against, and if she trots off instead, we're left with the team and their need to return to civilization. We'd need either a new monster ex machina to engage Kaunoinen or a switch to an entirely different theater to avoid getting the team involved.

The team will surely show up and do something, but it could be as simple as running for their lives in the background of panels while the bear chases them, roaring, in the foreground.
(I still think the Seagull Mage could deal with possessed Mamma Bear, and would choose to do so if she heads towards his border. So that might be the endgame.)
Also, I think that, when most of us talk about wanting to see the crew, we are talking about seeing them behave in specifically in-character ways that differ from what any other group of characters might do. Not just acting as anonymous prey for a bear.

[JoB]

The team will surely show up and do something, but it could be as simple as running for their lives in the background of panels while the bear chases them, roaring, in the foreground.
(I still think the Seagull Mage could deal with possessed Mamma Bear, and would choose to do so if she heads towards his border. So that might be the endgame.)

Emil has just cleaned out an entire room packed with trolls, to the effect (we hope) of getting the mages back into action outside the magescape. The complication that had kept him from doing more of that, Surma, is no more (we hope), and the kadéballs now animating Kaunoinen apparently qualified as little more than magescape scenery to the mages back when they were released from the kadragon. I don't think that the team will need Väinös services for this one - not to mention that they IMHO don't stand a chance to run all the way back without Kaunoinen catching up to them. Heck, getting all the way back to a working boat (that they left in Joensuu?) to save themselves onto open water would be quite the feat.

... having that said, I nonetheless could suspend my disbelief enough to allow for a Last Stand at the Lehto, With Divine Smiting to Help conclusion ...

[Jitter]

I soo wish for some Divine Smiting, but I'm afraid that would be too pagan for Minna now. I can see several alternatives for an end for this bear/kade/kaiju thingy:
- it keeps growing and/or burning intensely until it just burns out
- a god takes interest and smites it (see the beginning of this post)
- local nature spirits in Koli interfere, after being asked to do so by the mages
- Onni ex Machina is even stronger over short range and due to being in his native Finland, in a forest and also having gotten some training during this adventure, and he can call... maybe not Kokko, as the fiend seems to have fire in it, but maybe Iku-Turso the water monster to deal with it
- the Lehto idea is a great one, thank you JoB! It wouldn't even need to be the one back in Joensuu, Koli is a place of power and there could certainly be a Lehto nearby.
- I had one more but forgot!

If she were planning to just leave it, she could do it right here, as already mentioned. But clearly she's very much looking forward to being rid of SSSS, so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for some brilliant storytelling. Also with today's author comments, I suspect the Q/A session may be out too.

As for her baptism...

Spoiler: show

I assume she has been baptized as a baby, but the more enthusiastic groups that advocate for adult baptism don't think it counts. The person has to make a personal decision, which a small child cannot do (I don't know whether they think children go to Hell if they die before proper baptism? But I guess that's for the loving god to determine, huh?).

In any case, adult baptism is only practiced by sects in Finland, the standard Lutherans here are very mild with anything basically. A person can be baptized as an adult by Lutherans as well, if they were not previously, and they join the church, but that is the little sprinkling of water thing. Full body dunking in itself indicates a more fervent group, and doing it in a frozen lake is outright extreme.

If there was ever any doubt that the type of faith she has found would be rather moderate and it's just a question of vocabulary, that's out now. These are zealots. I sort of already assumed so when she mentioned having a "study Bible", because I don't think there is a moderate study Bible in existence... I feel uncomfortable speculating about her faith, but it's so very clearly not your run-of-the-mill Finnish Christianity now that I had to make this comment. As it makes her happy, I wish only good for her on her journey, but I have to say all this tastes bad in my mouth.

I don't know, should this part about the baptism and a few of the previous messages go under the LP thread?? Or somewhere else than here? What do you think?

[catbirds]

Yeah, it's a little sad to see that This is how it ends, basically. I enjoyed this story so much with the sense of wonder it gave me, despite it really only exploring parts of the world that do exist on the map today and that we can just traverse regularly with no fear. Reading the comic now feels like watching a car crash in slow motion kind of thing, and I can't really take my eyes off it.

Moving to another thread:

Spoiler: show

Yeah, I think it'd be appropriate to move parts of some messages over to the LP thread, or just copy them for now since we'll probably end up discussing this more as we draw closer to The End. And it might be good not to put these in the general comic comment thread in case anyone just doesn't want to talk about it.

Anyway, the priest did attempt to get it done in warmer weather, but I guess it didn't work out? But considering cold water dunking is something kind of dangerous and really scary, I'd have put it off anyway. I think a couple of other religions have full-body submersion, but y'know, those are different things.

Is it supposed to be an uncomfortable or painful process?

[Jitter]

Sooo, the one more option for getting out of this was NOT kadettes just leaving. I am... I don't know what I am, but happy isn't it.

Spoiler: show

No, I don't think the baptism is meant to be intentionally painful! And surely there would be options for full body submersion in water that do not have to take place in a frozen lake? Each to their own I guess.

[thorny]

Say what?

The kadeds weren't looking for a body, they were supposedly just trying to help out? Why? Were they conscious all the time in the kade, and thought Mama Bear was on their side? If so, was it because they had Stockholm or something and identified with the kade, or because they identified with Mama Bear as a sort of fellow captive?

And if they were needed to get Mama to stand up out of the water, why is she still on her feet now that they're gone?

And where are they going?

[Suominoita]

Sooo, the one more option for getting out of this was NOT kadettes just leaving. I am... I don't know what I am, but happy isn't it.

Yes. I interpret is as Mama Bear not feeling angry or vengeful anymore, now that Surma, who she actually saw directly killing her baby is dead. Maybe she's calm now and just walks away, not wanting to deal with the team anymore? A bit anticlimax, but well... the team is not able to deal with Kaunoinen and never was.

Anyway, it's the Disease that's the big deal, not an individual beast even one as mighty as the Kadebear.

Still, now that Onni's mission is over and dealt with, are they all going home now? I expect Sigrun and Mikkel going to Norway with Reynir -- lots of traffic between Norway and Iceland -- Lalli and Onni? Maybe Emil stays with them, maybe he goes to his aunt, uncle and cousins.

[catbirds]

I'd still wait a little to see how it turns out, considering there's a significant change like every other page now. But it doesn't make much sense, honestly. Maybe the swan needs to shake the eyeballs out first or something before they lose the kade's influence on them? It might be something more appropriate for and coherent in a binge-read later.

But either way, the general sentiment here seems to be that the comic isn't really living up to what it looked like it'd be initially. And Minna's interest in the series has also waned, which is understandable considering her decisions in the past year. I have no idea how she'll finish the story, but unless someone goes out and dies in the last 50 pages, they'll probably just all go home.

Spoiler: oops • show

Looks like there's only around 50 pages left, if the update schedule continues this way until the estimated end of January or February and there's no break before the epilogue.

[JoB]

The kadeds weren't looking for a body, they were supposedly just trying to help out? Why? Were they conscious all the time in the kade, and thought Mama Bear was on their side? If so, was it because they had Stockholm or something and identified with the kade, or because they identified with Mama Bear as a sort of fellow captive?

There is another possibility: All those souls the kade absorbed supposedly were Finnish mages, with the major task to guide (other) trapped souls to the afterlife. If they have been freed from the kade's influence in any meaningful way, they might have looked at the fight and seen one soul they could do that with (Surma, with a human soul) and one they have to leave for others (because Kaunoinens beast soul requires a kallohonka and, thus, physical hands to clean her bones).

Edit to add:

Spoiler: show

No, I don't think the baptism is meant to be intentionally painful! And surely there would be options for full body submersion in water that do not have to take place in a frozen lake? Each to their own I guess.

Spoiler: show

If they wanted painful, there would be no need to have a hole in the ice beforehand, only for a priest with proper fisherman training.

[wavewright62]

Her interest in the pages has been shown by her commentary, which has been laconic even for a Finn.  Barring today's page, of course.  I assume those 50ish update days also includes the promised 20-pg epilogue, and the break she was going to take before posting the epilogue.  She usually takes a break over Christmas / New Year's, so it's possible we may have only on the order of a dozen pages left in the story proper.
Stop by the Sentinel's outpost and pick up surprisingly non-bleeding personal effects (I'd still love to know the story of the jewelled brooch or cloak clasp, and whether it belonged to Mikkel or Sigrun).  Lay a stone for Ensi with the others.  Maybe a little lake scenery.  I can hope for some character interaction. 

[Jitter]

Hope springs eternal. Sadly, the comic doesn't.