Author Topic: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat  (Read 392335 times)

Hrollo

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2340 on: June 12, 2017, 07:26:41 PM »
I don't know. Honestly I'm under the impression that we often end up judging fictional characters up to impossibly high standards of behavior that no real person comes close to match in practice.

Emil's just trying to point out that not everything is dark and desparate, and things might get better later on. What else can he do? Tell Lalli everything sucks but that's life and Lalli just needs to toughen up? Pretend there's nothing wrong with Lalli and ignore his depressive manifestations? He can't "listen and learn" here, there's a language barrier. Given the situation, I don't see what else he could do.

Which doesn't mean I think less of Lalli for reacting the way he does. He doesn't need a "good reason" not to be friend with someone — that's a weird thing too; you can only step out of a friendship if the other person is being a jerk?? Well not for me, if I want to walk out, I walk out, and I don't have to give any reason for doing so.
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Lazy8

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2341 on: June 12, 2017, 07:47:43 PM »
Emil's just trying to point out that not everything is dark and desparate, and things might get better later on. What else can he do? Tell Lalli everything sucks but that's life and Lalli just needs to toughen up? Pretend there's nothing wrong with Lalli and ignore his depressive manifestations? He can't "listen and learn" here, there's a language barrier. Given the situation, I don't see what else he could do.

No one here is saying that Emil needs to tell Lalli to toughen up, or that everything sucks and that's life, or to pretend that there's nothing wrong and ignore his depression - the latter is exactly what Tuuri is doing, and it's pretty well-established that that is also the wrong way to handle it. The problem, here, is actually a problem that's common to all of those reactions, including Emil's attempted pep talk: they're trying to make Lalli be happy, when what he really needs right now is to know that it's okay to grieve. Offering quiet companionship, and a shoulder to cry on, was what Emil seemed to be doing earlier, and it seemed to be helping. It might not have been much, but it was something, and it did help.

So, yes, Emil's choices very much do not amount to "try to cheer Lalli up" or "pretend there's nothing wrong" - that's a false dichotomy. And language barrier or no language barrier, he seemed to completely miss what Lalli was saying non-verbally: his body language, his frustrated tone... So yes, he very much could have learned something from Lalli's response, and didn't.

He doesn't need a "good reason" not to be friend with someone — that's a weird thing too; you can only step out of a friendship if the other person is being a jerk?? Well not for me, if I want to walk out, I walk out, and I don't have to give any reason for doing so.

I honestly don't see how this is relevant...
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thorny

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2342 on: June 12, 2017, 10:57:40 PM »
Emil's just trying to point out that not everything is dark and desparate, and things might get better later on. What else can he do?

He can say that's he's really sorry Lalli is having to deal with this, and for Lalli to tell him if there's anything Emil can do to help.

I don't know whether he could get that across the language barrier; but the body language that goes with that sort of statement would be a lot more appropriate.

Just plain body language to the effect of "do you want a hug? or would you rather not? but know that I'll hold you if it'll help any" would be another option. And even if Lalli's not good at body language, it should be possible to get that across -- I'm sure they've got enough language to understand "yes? no?" combined with holding out open arms.

As Lazy8 says, it really isn't a choice between inappropriate cheerfulness combined with a demand that Lalli join in, or pretending nothing's wrong and demanding that Lalli do that too.

Róisín

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2343 on: June 13, 2017, 12:00:13 AM »
thorny is right that those are not the only two choices. Emil might do better just to offer a hug, or even to give the sort of gentle comforting soft pat that we have seen Lalli himself give to a distressed Emil. Echoing someone else's body language conveys that you have been paying attention.
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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2344 on: June 13, 2017, 03:11:10 AM »
I today's page, I can't help notice that the flower got crushed be the very piece of glass that was providing it with a greenhouse effect just moments ago. It almost seems to parallel what's happening with their relationship at the moment.
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Caro

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2345 on: June 13, 2017, 03:37:52 AM »
I today's page, I can't help notice that the flower got crushed be the very piece of glass that was providing it with a greenhouse effect just moments ago. It almost seems to parallel what's happening with their relationship at the moment.

I thought the same thing. Since Emil used the flower to symbolize hope, it could also mean that their hope will be destroyed. It'll probably be something like them not being able to leave after all.
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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2346 on: June 13, 2017, 03:58:10 AM »
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?
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Caro

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2347 on: June 13, 2017, 04:36:48 AM »
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?

To someone really invested in the ship this is just trouble in paradise, a fight to clear the air.
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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2348 on: June 13, 2017, 07:41:02 AM »
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?

Nah. People ship even characters who are sworn enemies in canon. All that matters is that the shipper feels the characters have some chemistry of some sort. And if canon universe closes some doors, we can always make up more universes to explore those possibilities ;)

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2349 on: June 13, 2017, 08:22:16 AM »
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?

A scene like this just provides an opportunity to write fic where they kiss and make up.

In other words, no.
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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2350 on: June 13, 2017, 08:25:22 AM »
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?
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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2351 on: June 13, 2017, 01:02:04 PM »
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.

Also i believe in their friendship after all.
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Quirkwood

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2352 on: June 14, 2017, 04:57:25 AM »
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?

Nothing will stop us.

Also, I think what is happening is just a classical turn of fictional relationships. What will come out of all the trouble and incomprehension will be a real, deep relationship (romantic or not, they can be "soulmates" either way). I mean, what they had until now was great, but it was something that happened, especially to Lalli, and it seemed like they were both not very sure what the other thought of them. They´ll definitely come out of the next, ehm, adventure (I´m looking at you, upcoming-9-consecutive-pages-of-hell) with a much better established relationship of mutual trust and understanding.
*puts down the Crystal Ball of Hope and covers face in desperation*

That said, I am so sad for them right now. As in, "getting up for breakfast, reading the new page and sulking into the porridge" sad. I´m looking forward to something positive for them all.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 05:07:16 AM by Quirkwood »

Caro

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2353 on: June 14, 2017, 09:29:26 AM »
Nothing will stop us.

Also, I think what is happening is just a classical turn of fictional relationships. What will come out of all the trouble and incomprehension will be a real, deep relationship (romantic or not, they can be "soulmates" either way). I mean, what they had until now was great, but it was something that happened, especially to Lalli, and it seemed like they were both not very sure what the other thought of them. They´ll definitely come out of the next, ehm, adventure (I´m looking at you, upcoming-9-consecutive-pages-of-hell) with a much better established relationship of mutual trust and understanding.
*puts down the Crystal Ball of Hope and covers face in desperation*

That said, I am so sad for them right now. As in, "getting up for breakfast, reading the new page and sulking into the porridge" sad. I´m looking forward to something positive for them all.

I agree. This kind of twist is extremely common, and the relationship almost always ends up stronger than it was before. If this had happened further in the story I would be afraid of the "lovers' fight right before one dies" trope, but I think we can all agree that Minna wouldn't do that. I think they're gonna be mad at each other for a while, end up together in a tough situation, get through it and realize they don't actually hate each other.
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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #2354 on: June 14, 2017, 09:34:28 AM »
I agree. This kind of twist is extremely common, and the relationship almost always ends up stronger than it was before. If this had happened further in the story I would be afraid of the "lovers' fight right before one dies" trope, but I think we can all agree that Minna wouldn't do that. I think they're gonna be mad at each other for a while, end up together in a tough situation, get through it and realize they don't actually hate each other.

Agreed. Wasn't Emil's response to Lalli throwing soup at him to learn Finnish so he could understand why Lalli was mad? Seriously, their friendship survived the Soup Incident, it can probably survive Lalli needing to vent and an inconvenient language barrier.
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