Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat

[|Yucca|]

I mean, we just got to watch the death of Sleipnope.

The night has ended. The battle is over. We have seen the casualties. The ramifications will have to wait for the next chapter.

If Sleipnope in fact died right now, that would be really anti-climatic in my opinion. All the buildup with its' travels and changing forms leading to what? An end after a single question asked to Lalli and a magical knife cut received.

[Sc0ut]

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing the reactions in the following chapter at all. Unfortunately, the time lapse to sunrise suggests we will only see the next morning at best, so no immediate reactions at all. I personally think the way Minna solves off-screen some really serious situations or fast-forwards over them is a really bad storytelling choice, and one of the things that made me fell "out of love" with the comic. To each their own, I guess.

Also re: death of Sleipnope, I don't actually enjoy seeing trolls die drawn out painful deaths, and this is the second explicit one we get. These used to be people and we don't know how conscious they still are. I wish all this troll cruelty will come back and bite our team in the behind eventually, but somehow I doubt it's that kind of comic.

[Vafhudr]

I think that would be overestimating his plot relevance. He is not a major antagonist. He was just something of an arc boss. He created the situation that will severely compromise the protagonists. His job is done. His little army has been vanquished -his threat level was obliterated the moment it turns out that Onni could nuke all his trolls. But despite this he achieved a more meta-victory: Tuuri is wounded, possibly infected. That was the point of this whole engagement.

As for the knife wound - I don't know how magic works but he is clearly not having a fun time. He is literally melting from the inside out.

Also I don't see how this is resolving a serious situation off-screen. To have immediate reactions would add nothing to this scene. You would just get people rushing and bustling to give her first aid and maybe some gawking. That is a very odd criticism to mount against this scene - or the comic in general.

[|Yucca|]

Also I don't see how this is resolving a serious situation off-screen. To have immediate reactions would add nothing to this scene. You would just get people rushing and bustling to give her first aid and maybe some gawking. That is a very odd criticism to mount against this scene - or the comic in general.

The immediate actions would be like that, indeed. But what about some minutes later, or an hour later? Skipping straight to the morning though, is an entirely different story. There's so many feels to feel after an accident like that. What did they do for rest of the night? They also have a ton of issues that need immediate care, why not show that to us readers?

Also, what about the situation back at the Västerström residence? Surely someone would've woken up when Kokko went through Onni as it looked like he was screaming in pain. The scene of the other members of the support team finding Onni all charred up in the living room would've been very interesting to see.

[Keeper]

Perhaps all of that would have been difficult to communicate at this point in the chapter. It's coming to an end, and the mood is quiet, dark, and somber. Dealing with Tuuri's injury or checking on Onni would turn the scene urgent, disrupting the current mood and maybe the pace of the last few pages. So hopefully we'll see at least a bit in the next chapter, where it can be used to set the mood.

[|Yucca|]

Perhaps all of that would have been difficult to communicate at this point in the chapter. It's coming to an end, and the mood is quiet, dark, and somber. Dealing with Tuuri's injury or checking on Onni would turn the scene urgent, disrupting the current mood and maybe the pace of the last few pages. So hopefully we'll see at least a bit in the next chapter, where it can be used to set the mood.

You're right about the shift in mood that would've happened had there been more pages to this chapter. But, like mentioned above, this last page advanced the time so much it basically skips over all the most urgent matters. It could've been done like the chapter change between chapters 8 and 9 though, where chapter 8 ended quite peacefully (even with the threat of that one flat troll on its way) and chapter 9 continued right where the last one ended. For some reason though, Minna chose differently this time.

[Antillanka]

I don't think Sleipnope is dead at all, at least the way I saw it, Sleip was reuniting his forces. Sure, he seems wounded, but not dead in any way that was dumb, it's undead haha, but you got my meaning.

[Purple Wyrm]

I don't think Sleipnope is dead at all, at least the way I saw it, Sleip was reuniting his forces. Sure, he seems wounded, but not dead in any way that was dumb, it's undead haha, but you got my meaning.

I agree. I'm not counting Sleipnope out just yet.

[Róisín]

Keeper, I think you are right. The aftermath of an epic battle - silence descending, the cold and stillness slowly covering the cries of the dying, a reminder that those ghosts and trolls were once people, the beasts once loved pets or wild or domestic animals, whatever may since have overtaken them and warped their natures. We have been shown this in story: the unfortunate beast-dog that came to Emil for death and mercy when it remembered itself in the touch of the sun, the girl on the train, the one with the heart jewellery, who asked him to help her (and what is it about Emil, I wonder?)

And once more Minna has done something different and interesting with a common trope in such tales: normally, scenes of this sort are set in the falling dusk, the lives going out with the light. She sets the scene against the first light and colours of the dawn. Yes, it induces the 'pity and terror' which the old Greek dramatists considered appropriate for such things. Yet it also seems to me to contain elements of hope. The growing light and colour are part of that, but did you notice that in the foreground of the last scene with Sleipnope, those two beasts look a lot more like normal animals than beasts usually do, as the beast-dog did when it came to Emil, as against how it looked in the school? Maybe the fire-and-iron light of Kokko serves the same purpose as sunlight?

I agree that the place for seeing what happened to Tuuri, Onni and the others is at the start of the new chapter, among what passes for mundane life in this tale, whereas that space in the last scene could only be called liminal. As I see it, for all that the story Minna is telling contains fluff and friendship and light-hearted moments amid the basic travel and adventure elements, she isn't making a trivial tale. She is building a quest saga. Sagas need their darkness to contrast and strengthen their lighter elements.

Sc0ut, I would read you from your art and conversation as a gentle-souled and sensitive person who hates to see suffering, possibly because it is too familiar to you in real life, so I think I understand how you feel. But don't give up on Minna's work yet. The story is still only beginning. I think as the characters develop they will be shown thinking more about these issues. Perhaps, Lalli, Sigrun and Mikkel already do - they have experience in the world outside the cities and fortified camps. Remember Sigrun talking about why she didn't join the navy, because she hated the way it was necessary to kill seabeasts, by beaching them? And I suspect that Reynir, having lived his life on a farm, understands about killing in mercy being sometimes necessary. Emil comes across as an innately compassionate lad under his superficial layer of rich brat. Actually, Tuuri seems to have most to learn in this respect, and if she survives this experience it may school her in consideration for other beings.

[Jharad17]

I have to admit, I was a little disappointed to not see the crew's immediate reactions to the Tuuri issue . . . but what you wrote makes a lot of sense, Róisín. Also, we got to see Lalli's reaction, which was really, really heartbreaking. And we'll likely see Onni's, too, when/if he wakes up. The others' reactions would likely just have been a bunch of "Oh no"s and hand wringing and "What if"s that would have broken the solemn silence of the chapter's ending. The silence of much of the whole chapter, really. Aside from Kokko and Onni, most of the speech in the chapter was one line here and there. And yet the images on their own carried so much weight. In that light, I feel much more satisfied with how Minna ended the chapter. The next one will, I believe, be much more "talky."

[Vafhudr]

All I have to add to this is that I firmly believe Minna is an artist who above all understand moods. For instance, I would simply point out that for the last few pages there has been no spoken word except for Onni's incantations and some exchanges between Mikkel and Sigrun. This whole battle has been more or less mute in sound effects, except perhaps, specifically the sound of battle, of fire roaring in the background, of monster shrieking and writhing in pain. As such I think that it was very much in keeping with the tone and mood that there was no scene or emotional moment. Just quiet or mute dread and apprehension. We don't even know if Tuuri is actually infected. For all we know, her wound was caused by a shrapnel when the much critiqued-wooden floor erupted into little bits when the xenomorph looking troll burst through. There is very much a moment between Lalli and Tuuri when they both probably think that THE disaster scenario has occurred. Just look at Lalli's puppy face on this page:
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=656

What I have in mind could be conveyed by this animation of Night on Bald Mountain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCuL-K39eQ


And to this I would add the following.

I don't expect any huge emotional scene in the next chapter either. I think the colour scheme for the next section bit has already been hinted at. Grey and soft pink. A cold, somber dawn. That time of the day where everyone speaks in whispers almost out of the respect for the still sleeping world. I expect deliberation between the crew and the base camp at the Vasterstorm household. Maybe Onni will flip his proverbial shit, but I suspect that he is out for the count for a bit - which will add to the confusion since he is the most competent and knowledgeable in magical and spiritual matters. In invoking his help, they may have lost him as an adviser for the next part. The next part will be either hurrying to the extraction point, or as I speculated before, to do so but with the additional side quest of resolving the ghost nurse's backstory and her possible link to a cure that was lost, we presume, in the hasty evacuation 10 years ago or whenever it was that the Danes made their last big push.

But that depends on whether Tuuri develops symptoms or not. It maybe that she does not immediately, but her condition worsens as they travel - which would then make extraction pretty much impossible - without removing Tuuri, that is.

Cool and only faintly warm colours. Uncertainty, confusion, anxiety and stress. Perhaps even tension in the group. That is what I foresee after the break. 

[Sc0ut]

Róisín, I'm not giving up on the story. I still have interest in it, and there are good things in there, even if certain aspects of Minna's style annoy me. And if I don't read it, how can I take part in discussions and fanart-making with you all?

The others' reactions would likely just have been a bunch of "Oh no"s and hand wringing and "What if"s that would have broken the solemn silence of the chapter's ending.

Really? When have we ever seen these people go "oh no" and engage in hand wringing? You'd have a hard time finding a set of protagonists less inclined to fretting and despair even when they have very good reason to (with the exception of Emil in social situations). It would be interesting to see who tries to help, who looks for a scapegoat, who blames themselves, who remains optimistic, etc. It would be damn interesting to see what Tuuri herself does, once the immediate shock wears off! In a character-driven story like this one, even very mundane moments can be important. And this one's actually far from mundane, considering we've had entire pages dedicated to cleaning the tank, navigating difficult terrain etc. Somehow Minna decided those were worth showing "on screen" but the reaction to Tuuri's injury (and the tank taking some heavy damage, compromising everyone's safety until it's fixed) somehow isn't? Excuse me if I can't wrap my head around this decision. Again, I'm not criticizing pushing all that to the next chapter - that makes sense, as you could make an entire chapter of just their reactions to this battle. But it looks like it's going to be skipped rather than addressed. We might end up with Tuuri's shoulder bandaged, a silent montage of them repairing the floor, and none of this mentioned again. Think it's unlikely? It's exactly what happened after the first ghost panic when half of them passed out.

Anyway, we'll see in a week or so.

[Lazy8]

Also re: death of Sleipnope, I don't actually enjoy seeing trolls die drawn out painful deaths, and this is the second explicit one we get. These used to be people and we don't know how conscious they still are. I wish all this troll cruelty will come back and bite our team in the behind eventually, but somehow I doubt it's that kind of comic.

Wishing for the "troll cruelty" to "come back and bite our team in the behind"? Okay, sorry, no, I can't agree with that at all. I don't think anybody, in the audience or in-story, has been "enjoying seeing trolls die drawn out painful deaths", and from the way those deaths are presented in-story we're not supposed to, at all.

Every time the protagonists have put down a troll or a beast, it wasn't wanton cruelty, it was a legitimate act of self-defense. They have to go into dangerous troll-infested places in order to do the job they were hired for, but the whole reason they have a scout is so they can avoid trouble if at all possible. Former human or not, Sleipnope still crossed what looks like a whole country for no apparent reason for the sole purpose of attacking a group of humans who'd done nothing worse than walk into a building unaware; whatever it is you're actually saying here, it sounds a whole lot like you want everyone in the group to be punished for not letting themselves get murdered by an army.

[Sc0ut]

Lazy8, I'm not criticizing the group for anything really. Sometimes even the best or only solution to a difficult problem is still cruel as hell. Killing water beasts by beaching them is one of those. What the Icelandic ship did to the boat of refugees in the prologue is another case (though they could have put them into quarantine instead, so that was just the safest/cheapest solution, arguably not the best). They are both understandable to different degrees, but still cruel. Self defense justifies cruelty, but it doesn't erase it. I might do the same in their place (when it comes to most of the trolls, not the refugees), but still feel bad about it. Is this more comprehensible?

Sure, there's also the possibility that the trolls are conscious but suffering in their current state, so killing them in literally any way is still a mercy. We just don't know at this point. I think it will be relevant at some point though, judging by how much Minna shows us dying/suffering trolls and ghosts.

[Lazy8]

Lazy8, I'm not criticizing the group for anything really. Sometimes even the best or only solution to a difficult problem is still cruel as hell. Killing water beasts by beaching them is one of those. What the Icelandic ship did to the boat of refugees in the prologue is another case (though they could have put them into quarantine instead, so that was just the safest/cheapest solution, arguably not the best). They are both understandable to different degrees, but still cruel. Self defense justifies cruelty, but it doesn't erase it. I might do the same in their place (when it comes to most of the trolls, not the refugees), but still feel bad about it. Is this more comprehensible?

It's more comprehensible, but I still don't get what you meant by hoping that things would bite them in the behind? Because that sounded a lot to me like you thought they ought to be somehow punished by the narrative.

The trolls and ghosts have exhibited a fair amount of cruelty as well, themselves. Leaftroll risked the cold and snow and sunlight of the outside, all to track down a vehicle that was just passing through. Why did it need to do that? If it had just stayed hibernating in its nice warm pod rather than trying to bite Reynir's face off it need never have died. Krakentroll viciously tried to drown Sigrun, and the whole reason it got beached in the first place was because it insisted on chasing her after she got away. I don't even know what Sleipnope's deal is, but it seems to know exactly what it's doing, given the time and effort it went to to assemble an army (and then outright taunted Lalli!). You do feel bad for them when they die, but I really can't believe that the heroes deserve any sort of comeuppance for surviving these encounters.