Author Topic: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat  (Read 85134 times)

Annie

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2014, 08:16:01 PM »
Quote
I would be happier if we kept this forum for things that need more considered, long-term discussion. The example I came up with was character development threads, where we could log the life-lessons each character learns, changes of personality as the result of experiences and so on. The other BIG use is already underway with the poetry thread which is exactly what this forum can achieve that the Disqus system sucks at!

Seconded heartily!
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Eik

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2014, 08:38:34 PM »
Can I suggest that we avoid running the forum into the ground with topics discussing the latest update. We don't need 300 posts a day saying "Yuck!" "Lalli = cute!" and so on - Discuss works fine for that!

I would be happier if we kept this forum for things that need more considered, long-term discussion. The example I came up with was character development threads, where we could log the life-lessons each character learns, changes of personality as the result of experiences and so on. The other BIG use is already underway with the poetry thread which is exactly what this forum can achieve that the Disqus system sucks at!

Speculation threads are also a very good idea - lets have lots of those!
This is the best case made so far for a single thread.  In the name of fairness: any objections?
Feel free to PM.

StellersJayC

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2014, 01:22:57 AM »
Quote
This is the best case made so far for a single thread.  In the name of fairness: any objections?

No objections here!

Quote
Posted by: noako
« on: Today at 02:22:17 PM » Insert Quote
I'd prefer not to have one thread for all the future updates, they always get so cluttered and busy and... It's not easy get into later, if you don't keep checking the updates. Adding to that, the update rate is lot faster than most of the comics...
How about one thread for one week?

I don't have any ideas about thread-frequency, but to keep it un-cluttered all we really need to do is be very specific.

NO: "Hey... Remember those space men? They sure were weird weren't they?"

YES: On page 174 there were people dressed as space-men. (At least that is how others referred to them. It was also the comment section that told me their job was to clean the train - I'm a little tired and am not thinking straight.) They seemed really at ease before the train appeared and utterly shocked after. It makes me wonder just how often trolls attack trains, how long train-cleaners usually stay in employment, how much damage trolls usually do, and how big of a range thei radios have. Any ideas?

In the yes example, the commenter was very clear about what they were talking about and had a point behind the comment. If everyone did something similar to the 'yes' comment it would be much less cluttered. (And remove the "yuck/Lalli=cute" comments from the middle of serious discussions about year 90 agriculture.)

I'm not saying this is a perfect solution, feel free to poke all the holes in it you like. :)

Nimphy

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2014, 02:04:05 AM »

That makes sense, I mean, the little fullbody profile pictures in the cast page already look like they could be in some game showing different jobs...
RPG of SSSS would be awesome but I think we still know too little to make anything sensible.

I created that SSSS RPG already, but many didn't get to see it and it's sorta dead. I was thinking of making another one here - just let me fetch the rules and modify them a bit to fit the new discoveries. But on second thought, you're right, I'd wait a little more.
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BrainBlow

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2014, 06:50:28 AM »
It seems Emil has recovered just fine from the adrenaline crash. That's good to see.


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Fimbulvarg

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2014, 07:03:55 AM »
I was looking forward to seeing Emil try to explain the events to Tuuri. She must still be really confused about the whole episode. Then again fast-forwarding a bit also means we'll get to see the rest of the cast much sooner.

Mayabird

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2014, 09:59:10 AM »
I'm fine with skipping an explanation.  After all, while Emil may be funny, we already saw what happened.  I'd rather meet the new team members sooner and learn more of the Danes.  They sure do have the shiny technology there.  I wonder how much scavenging they've done (it was mentioned on the Nationalities of the World page that they've made "many tragic attempts to reclaim" their old lands) or have been doing on the sly.  I'd also like to know how recently that outbreak was and how bad it was.  Sounds to me like they've just experienced a serious population crash and now don't have the manpower to continue to attempt scavenging/cleansing. 

Hedge14

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2014, 10:18:03 AM »
I think this page is my favorite so far in this chapter. There is just so much going on. Architecture is fantastic, I hope whole Bornholm is built in same style. For some odd reason my favorite detail about this page is contrast of water and platforms. Trainlift is pretty sweet too. 

I'd also like to know how recently that outbreak was and how bad it was.  Sounds to me like they've just experienced a serious population crash and now don't have the manpower to continue to attempt scavenging/cleansing.

Kind of creepy to think that Bornholm might be quite empty and almost ghost town because of the outbreak. Large empty spaces and very few people = really disturbing and sad.

Eik

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2014, 11:29:30 PM »
Homygoooosh it's Medic Man.  It's Medic Von-Manly Man.  I'm more excited for the comic right now than I've been in a while.
I feel like I need to archive dive, so I can summarize the story to this point for myself and get pumped all over again.
Feel free to PM.

Skatiebobatie

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2014, 11:23:27 PM »
I'd prefer not to have one thread for all the future updates, they always get so cluttered and busy and... It's not easy get into later, if you don't keep checking the updates. Adding to that, the update rate is lot faster than most of the comics...
How about one thread for one week?

Edit: Ooh, of course, splitting them by chapters could work too..!!
The comic "Questionable Content" also updates M-F. Their forum has one weekly thread for comic discussion, usually opened by a mod, and it seems to work well. You don't have to slog through posts to find an older point you were looking for, but neither does it clog up the boards. If there were a main board for discussions and then a subcategory for the weekly posts, that might answer well here, too.
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Superdark33

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2014, 08:42:49 AM »
Discussions on the page comments are good, but more often than not they just fade into the shadows without impact.
Posting threads is good, but sometimes theres just this tiny question or discussion that doesnt fit anywhere, and to make a new thread is just a waste.

Enter ComDisc, In this thread the status of the comic as a whole will be discussed, small questions, big questions, why start a new thread to die after a few posts when you can house them all in one?
Unlike comments, ComDisc talks not about just the current page, but the previous and future, react and discuss.

If a discussion shows it clutters the thread, why not open a thread for it?

Bottom line: ComDisc threads make forums more orginized.

So lets start: Other than treasure hunting for Torbjorn, what do you think the crew needs to accomplish?
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Sunflower

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2014, 12:26:33 AM »
Torbjorn's cheery farewell to the troops on p. 191 touched off strenuous discussion of wealth, poverty, and control thereof on the comics page.  I'm reproducing key points here.  Please, chime in!
-- Your Editor


tristen
"but now… let's all get rich". Ho-hum. At the risk of bringing in some unpalatable politics, it's a shame to see profit-scrounging capitalism continue to rear its ugly head in post-apocalyptic society - especially amongst our social-loving scandinavian descendants… how about: "but now… let's all go out there and enrich our cultural heritage by retrieving lost… [and so on]..."
Glory? ok. Adventure, wonder, and cultural heroism? great. Accumulation of wealth in a barely-industrial, near fiefdom-like-society - meh. grmbl. sigh.


Tim 
Every explorer and adventurer in the history of mankind has for the most part been motivated by personal profit, some by glory, some the desire to benefit their country, a small number a desire to spread their faith or try to benefit those people they find, but the vast majority are motivated by the idea that they will become filthy rich.

A Large number [such as] Leif the Lucky and Erick the Red were motivated not by National or Cultural desires but for personal and familial profit.

California has gained as many immigrants (from within the US and without) due to the desire of individuals to make money. Columbus sailed to Hispaniola to make money for himself (along with the fame) and later proved to be exceedingly cruel and avaricious.

This is simply the nature of the average individual who decides to risk his life on such quests as these.

tristen --> Tim
I don't believe historical precedent is an indicator (or justifier) of the current enlightened (though not as widespread as I hoped by now) mind. I could find a lot of historical precedent where there was a perceived benefit to justify a lot of atrocities such as racism, slavery, cannibalism, genocide, and so on…
Past behaviour is not a tool for judgment of current values of right and wrong - if anything it is an endless series of cautionary tales based on backward psychology and sociology - now updated. To compare an adult mind of more than 50 years ago is to compare a child's mind to an adult's in terms of maturity, sophistication, and worldliness today.


DaiJB --> tristen
Yeah - but, that's been Torbjörn's motivation from the start, hasn't it? I mean - its even in his profile! :/
That's one reason I'd *really* like this mission to take an unexpected turn that, while still resulting in "success", isn't the sort of monetary windfall that the Four Misers were expecting... ;)

tristen --> DaiJB
Hear! Hear!
Recover the treasures and knowledge but rack up enough costs and damages that no one gets overcompensated or enriched.



Sir. Orc --> tristen
Why would it be so bad for them to make a profit? I mean, the nordic council didn't want to fund them, they had to make the most of what they got. Actually turning a profit off the books means that at least they will have more funds for the next expedition. (I mean none of the backers are employed, they are hinging on this being a success in order to support themselves.)

Also it's not like they aren't paying the crew, and even for as meager pay as it is, they all see something to be gained from the expedition (except maybe Lalli). The expedition will make them famous one way or another, and it will salvage valuable lore that would otherwise be lost. So why is it so bad that the backers turn a profit?

TBA --> Sir. Orc
Why is profit bad indeed? If I remember correctly most of us told Minna to pocket a good chunk or her aRTD campaign rather then spend it on more perks. Of course Minna transferred that into being able to make more SSSS comics.
Ideally that is what is supposed to be done with profits.

Of course being one of the cogs in the U.S. military industrial complex, I saw that the Reagan/trickle-down economics did not in fact work like this. The result has been the death of much of the aviation industry and it's work force. As the suppliers are 2 weeks or 2 months away from bankruptcy and the workforce leaves because fixing boats, welding water tanks and even driving a bus pays better.



Tim 
The Space race is the only instance that I can think of where the explorers weren't motivated by a desire for personal profit ( in that particular case it was the desire of the Astronauts to prove that America & Capitalism were superior to USSR's Communism.)


« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 01:35:13 AM by Sunflower »
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
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Sunflower

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2014, 12:41:09 AM »
This kind of budded off the analysis of the Known World's economy:

tristen --> TSCTH
...I was hoping a different means of post-scarcity tech (my purest form of non-capitalism behaviour, etc.) would make itself known in the future (e.g. unlimited personal fusion power to run our own hand-held replicators ;)

TSCTH --> tristen
...You raised a very interesting point (the belief that all economical systems are either capitalist by modern standards or "primitive"-ish), so i ran with it. ^_^

And as for post-scarcity, it's not really gonna happen, since post-scarcity would ultimately require the non-existence of humans. And once humans are gone, scarcity and non-scarcity in terms of humanity's resources becomes a moot point.

We will likely reach a point were we can drop both a monetary type economy (what we have now) and a material type economy (what we once had), by using automation, robotics and fAI/gAI to make everything needed for survival free.

But in all likelihood we'd still have some kinda economy running, as they'd still be many people with many different needed not based in survival. So experiences (books, movies, theater, vacations, human interaction, games, etc), novelty (one-off art, improvised music, etc) and many other things could very well form the basis of this economy.
 
tristen --> TSCTH
Perhaps. But as soon as we reasonably sever the demand/supply relationship (lose care in waste? excess?) and create a certain quantity and complexity of experiences that no human could ever hope to completely devour in a lifetime, witness a MMPORG with places and activities so individual and all-consuming, that we have effectively hit post-scarcity.

Doesn't an economy pre-suppose trade or desiring to have something someone else has so that they can no longer have it? But if you create your own thing, custom, every time - never desiring anything else anyone has except as a point of reference to influence your own wants, is that not effectively post-scarcity? An infinite tree of branches. Do we need to be plugged into a Matrix-type enviro, where 90% of our wants are digital, to achieve this post-scarcity? Is that bad? Does that dehumanize us? I'm not convinced.

Effective post-scarcity is likely very close - though it may mean the end of tactile inter-relationships most of the time. It means we'll also likely need to be mining the asteroids and building a Dyson sphere...

TSCTH --> tristen
Post-scarcity would require fulfilling every need or want, which creates a huge problem for production. For example, if someone desires something that goes against the laws of physics, then that cannot be fulfilled and therefor creates scarcity.

And an economy does not pre-suppose trade or taking other people's stuff (taking someone else's stuff, so that they can no longer have it, is just plain old greed).
An economy is any system of production, distribution/trade and consumption of limited goods/services. But, it can also be described as any system fixing the problems arising from a group shifting from extreme egalitarian self-reliance (producing most of what you use and getting the rest for free), to systematic labor distribution and tribal politics.

Oh, and i never said post-scarcity would dehumanize us nor that it would require living in a digital world.

I actually think eliminating our current system and replacing it with one not based on money/materials, is vital to the survival of them human species.

tristen 
Actually, that's one of my favourite SF tropes (?) is for a society to find some future tech (or past future tech) as it were, that enables some great benefit not currently available...

Sir. Orc --> tristen
These people don't have cars. I'm reasonably sure that personal fusion power isn't in the picture, or purely theoretical economic models.

tristen --> Sir. Orc
Not that we know about. Secret DARPA plan that was hidden away next to that infamous scandinavian seed vault? Untold energy and biological treasures? Who knows? This story may not limit itself to a simple stumbling through ancient-modern-day-ruins (?) of northern Europe to simply battle trolls but also uncover other technologies, atrocities, or conspiracies… what was that old SF catch-phrase "the truth is out there…"  [Editor's Note: Mulder's credo from "The X-Files."]

Sir. Orc 
Your society would have to be populated by people who are effectively gods in order to achieve post scarcity, as even being able to transmute stuff out of thin air still requires matter and energy to drive it.

Sir. Orc --> tristen
What you're probably thinking of is better described as either-post singularity, or post-digital. It's just another technological shift, but resources are still being distributed and allocated, and they are still finite, even if the average consumer doesn't know better. On the macro level, something still has to be driving everything.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 01:36:22 AM by Sunflower »
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
:chap3:  :chap4:  :chap5:  :book2:  :chap12:  :chap13:  :chap14:   :chap15:  :chap16:

Speak some:  :france:  :mexico:  :vaticancity:  Ein bisschen: :germany:

Sunflower

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2014, 12:48:01 AM »
More...

Sir. Orc --> tristen
Why would it be so bad for them to make a profit? I mean, the nordic council didn't want to fund them, they had to make the most of what they got. Actually turning a profit off the books means that at least they will have more funds for the next expedition. (I mean none of the backers are employed, they are hinging on this being a success in order to support themselves.)

Also it's not like they aren't paying the crew, and even for as meager pay as it is, they all see something to be gained from the expedition (except maybe Lalli). The expedition will make them famous one way or another, and it will salvage valuable lore that would otherwise be lost. So why is it so bad that the backers turn a profit?

tristen --> Sir. Orc
Better to make any enrichment fall into some communal pot, where a vetted lottery to fund future trips could happen.
 
Sir. Orc --> tristen
It wouldn't go to funding the trips. Remember? The nordic council didn't want to spend money on this. What makes you think that they would want to fund the next trip? Or the one after that?

tristen --> Sir. Orc
Loud public outcry. Grass roots populism. Motivated group (mob) desire to learn the past through sending a group of adventurers out to recover knowledge, etc. Point: not some barely-accountable council. Some kind of common sort-of-binding referendum or such...
 
Sir. Orc --> tristen
In the prologue Taru mentions that someone finally gave them money. In the little info-pages the Danes are described as "obsessed" over the past. The Swedish prefer to raze the ruins and all the books within to reclaim territory faster rather than salvage anything. The "mob desire" to learn about the past simply isn't there. It's up to private groups like Torbjorn's to salvage anything at all, and it was either dumb luck or similar greedy desires which allowed any books to be salvaged at all. Also, the populations still numbers in the thousands, try getting a thousand people to decide on anything in a timely manner.
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
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Sunflower

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Re: Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2014, 02:03:26 AM »
Sigrun's innocent remark on p. 191 -- "How hard can it be?" (to drive the Catmobile) touched off a marvelous series of runo spells for summoning chaos.

SnootsDwagon
Ohhhh they is now invoking magic spells eh? And the most powerful ones existent: the ones that call on Murphy's Law and focus vast amounts of it into one localized area! They include:
* How hard can it be?
* At least it can't get any worse.
* Don't worry, I've done this before.
* What can go wrong?
And the ever popular...
* Hey, watch this!

Euodiachloris 
You forgot a few...
* Oh, what does this do?
* Is that supposed to sound/ smell/ look/ taste like that?
* At least it's fine out...
* Don't worry: it was a bargain/ on offer/ two for the price of one!

SparkyDragon 
* No, it's not broken! Just do this and it works great!
* Probably nothing.
* Come on, nobody will notice it's missing!

Phyre Storm 
* Nobody will notice me hurling the thing I broke across a large room.
* It's a perfectly fine idea to be a dick to the guy with the flamethrowers.
* No need to check the crates before we load them.
* By all means, let the person who can't see over the dashboard drive!

SnootsDwagon 
* Cut the green wire.
* Well, it's all downhill from here.
* At least it's not raining.
* I've never been sick a day in my life!
* This one is just as good.
* I finally decided on a cell phone company.

DaiJB 
*Yes, I'm sure I turned the power off...
*Just need to lean a *little* bit further to reach...
* Hey, watch me pass this truck on the inside!
* No problem, big dogs love me...
* I'm just a bit rusty, that's all...
* Let's split up, we'll cover more ground that way...(the reason I hated Fred)

And the one that is absolutely disastrous when said to small children and pets:
* Don't bother me now, I'm concentrating...

Greenwood Goat 
* It'll be a false alarm - I guarantee it.
* There's always a generous safety margin with these things.
* One brake is enough. We won't need to stop suddenly in open country, anyway.
* That flashing light is put there for idiots, we have plenty of fuel.
* Those redlines are just warnings.
* Once we get airborne, we'll be fine.
* Yeah, the gauge has reached the bottom, but there's at least two litres left in the tank.
* It's just a little steam. Or smoke. It always does that.
* Flight plans are just bureaucracy.
* It's just bubbles in the fuel line; it'll keep on going like this for miles.
* Of course I'll remember the way back.
* So what if it's getting dark? I get around my house in the dark just fine.
* The petrol station will be around the next bend or so, and why would it be closed at this hour...?

Ole_the_Inventor 
- Hey, it stopped ticking
- I think it is tame
- I know what I'm doing
- They always rattle when you shake them
- There is always diesel in the bilge water
- Shall I press OK now?

Sharion 
- Once more, with feeling!
- This seems like a safe place to make camp.
- I can kill it with my bare hands.
- Jump!
- I think it finally died.
- Why do they have a tank?!
- But it's sooo cute...!
And a bonus one:
- These are ancient runes, saying: "Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." Let's go in, I can't wait to read all the books we'll find here!
 
Peter Sadlon 
* Don't worry, I've done this before.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 02:44:25 PM by Sunflower »
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
:chap3:  :chap4:  :chap5:  :book2:  :chap12:  :chap13:  :chap14:   :chap15:  :chap16:

Speak some:  :france:  :mexico:  :vaticancity:  Ein bisschen: :germany: