Author Topic: Character Development: Emil  (Read 44319 times)

Vafhudr

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #120 on: April 21, 2015, 03:21:10 PM »
Emil might not be a bad person, but he certainly has a sense of vanity, ambition and entitlement that might lead him to make very dumb decisions.

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KicknRun

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #121 on: April 21, 2015, 08:40:19 PM »
Emil might not be a bad person, but he certainly has a sense of vanity, ambition and entitlement that might lead him to make very dumb decisions.

This is a pretty apt summary. I mean, its easy to see his hidden, nicer depths, but his greed, self-consciousness, and his difficulty( not inability, we do see him empathize with others) will most definitely cause problems.

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LooNEY_DAC

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #122 on: June 27, 2015, 10:36:22 PM »
In re the most recent pages (337-350): the range of reactions Emil displays over the course of these events is interesting, as are the fan reactions. I'll just cover 3 points here:

1) Emil & Cthulhund. Emil, when not in fight-or-flight mode, wants to put Cthulhund out of its misery, going so far as to try to call it back when it fled so that he could do so.

2) Emil & the kittens. After the adrenaline rush of the Cthulhund fight, and possibly a perceived failure on his part to put Cthulhund down, Emil sees the dead kittens, and quite possibly thinks, 'I've failed them, too', as they might (maybe possibly but probably not) have been saved if he'd been there sooner/done better, so he cries, until they find DerpKitty.

3) Emil & Lalli. This also goes in Lalli's thread, but it seems Emil's persistence is finally paying off there, as Lalli, despite his irritation at having Emil bathe him, has finally admitted they're friends, if only to Onni.

Big things, these. What are your thoughts on them?

Couch Princess

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #123 on: June 27, 2015, 11:30:35 PM »
I will probably come back and post something here later. Just gonna say, I love Emil and this tread makes me very, very, very happy!!
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Róisín

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #124 on: June 28, 2015, 04:18:35 AM »
LooNEY: agree with you about these. And would like to add one thing: people have maybe got a bit sideways about the Emil bathing Lalli thing. Lalli is a professional scout. Emil is a professional, if junior Cleanser/soldier. They are in the field, with non-Immune team mates, in a situation where they will be exposed to contaminants every day. Of course they will bathe each other, there's really no other way to get clean. I think that while Lalli may not enjoy the *process* (cold, uncomfortable, possibly painful/skin irritating) he wouldn't resent Emil for doing it, because it is necessary. Not least because he will likely be returning the favour to Emil the next day!
I doubt they have much body-shame or modesty in their culture, because they are in a survival situation, in the field, and are mostly military or military-connected anyway. Also, Scandinavia.
I think Lalli may be refusing Emil's fist-bump both because the gesture is culturally unfamiliar to him (Finnish vs Swedish) and because he doesn't appear to like being touched, not because he hates or resents Emil. But Emil, mass of boyish insecurities that he is, doesn't know this.
Lalli has indicated to Onni that Emil might be a friend, which is promising.
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hushpiper

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #125 on: July 19, 2015, 01:31:24 PM »
*pokes head in* For the longest time I had a headcanon that Emil had a big shaggy pet dog when he was particularly little--it's the sort of thing that impractical parents with a lot of money to spend would do to spoil their kid post-Rash--or that if he didn't, he wanted one.

The recent pages have given me ALL the justification for this headcanon now! \o/

Sunflower

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #126 on: July 19, 2015, 04:04:05 PM »
*pokes head in* For the longest time I had a headcanon that Emil had a big shaggy pet dog when he was particularly little--it's the sort of thing that impractical parents with a lot of money to spend would do to spoil their kid post-Rash--or that if he didn't, he wanted one.

The recent pages have given me ALL the justification for this headcanon now! \o/

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LooNEY_DAC

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #127 on: July 19, 2015, 04:51:47 PM »
*pokes head in* For the longest time I had a headcanon that Emil had a big shaggy pet dog when he was particularly little--it's the sort of thing that impractical parents with a lot of money to spend would do to spoil their kid post-Rash--or that if he didn't, he wanted one.

The recent pages have given me ALL the justification for this headcanon now! \o/

Given Prologue!Bosse, having a big, shaggy pet dog is probably a family tradition.

chaelcodes

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #128 on: February 10, 2016, 05:43:09 AM »
Emil is quite vigilant when it comes to Lalli. I believe this had a lot to do with his protective streak and lack of friends. Lalli is his closest friend on this trip, probably due to their similarities in age and gender, and the fact that Emil can't offend him. Seeing his only friend unconscious and not knowing why must be quite distressing. The way Emil values Lalli is one of his greatest redeeming features. While he is introduced as a braggart and a fop, it's clear that he's very observant and caring, at least as far as his buddy is concerned.
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Lazy8

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #129 on: February 14, 2016, 11:07:31 AM »
So here's a writeup I did on Emil a long while back that I'd like to re-post here:

Spoiler: This got long • show
Okay so first of all at this point Emil is definitely one of my favorite characters, second only to Sigrun, and one of the things that I love about him is that he is realistically, sympathetically flawed. From what we've seen of Emil, at least in the beginning of the story, he tends to be boastful and talk himself up a lot, but I'd say that this surface arrogance is covering for a whole lot of deep, deep insecurity.

Emil's early education consisted of being taught by a lot of expensive private tutors, but it seems as if they didn't do their job. Given that he was allowed to pick his own curriculum, supposedly excelled in everything he was taught, but then crashed as soon as he entered the public school system, it isn't too hard to deduce that what in fact happened is that those tutors never corrected any of his mistakes, only gave him an endless stream of praise. Maybe his parents threatened to fire them if he did anything less than excellent in every subject, but in any case, he went from having zero actual guidance in his early life to getting little to no positive feedback when he entered public school, made even worse by the fact that he'd probably never been corrected for anything and thus had never learned how to take criticism. So instead of trying to improve himself, he instead blamed his teachers for having it in for him.

Things probably didn't improve when he joined the ranks of the cleansers; his career was slow, and if he didn't get much positive feedback in public school, he definitely didn't get any in the military. Not to mention he seems to be very poorly socialized as well; if his parents were overly indulgent and wouldn't allow his tutors to fail him in anything, they probably also didn't bother to discipline or correct him when their precious baby said something that was out of line. Recall Emil's tendency to put his foot in his mouth, to say stupid or insensitive things without thinking (the worst being when he was dismissive of the deaths of hundreds of people in the battle of Kastrup, which was a bit much for even the stoic Mikkel) yet be overly worried about superficial things like appearances.

I think that on some level, Emil knows that people don't like him. Minna has even said in the Author Notes that he hasn't had many friends in his life, and those he did have didn't stick around for long. A good part of this is his own fault, as we've seen again... and again... and again, but rereading the comic I can't help but notice how downright condescending his uncle and aunt can be when they talk to him, and find it incredibly sad that the people who should be most supportive of him seem to be the ones who are least willing to give him a chance. He might have even figured out that he has a problem with people, and that a lot of the problem is his own fault, but has chosen to fixate on the wrong thing (physical appearances, as opposed to thinking before he opens his mouth).

Which is where the insecurity comes into play. Whenever anyone speaks another language around him, Emil's default assumption seems to be that they're making fun of him behind his back, even if there's very good reason - such as Tuuri speaking Finnish with Lalli because that's the only language Lalli knows, or Mikkel speaking Icelandic with Reynir because that's the only language Reynir knows. Also note how his attitude went from boastful when he was safe in Sweden, to 'I have to prove myself!' when he was out on his first mission, and the differences in his interactions with Tuuri and Sigrun. With Tuuri, he was outright boasting about how much of a prodigy he was; with Sigrun, it seemed less like he was trying to inflate his accomplishments and more like trying to cover for his inexperience. Everything he said there was all technically true - he had faced a giant and punched it in one of its faces; he even specified that he'd faced a troll up close before once. I think that the attack on the Dalahasten was when all of this really became real for him - 'This is what being attacked by one of these monsters is actually like and I'm going right out into a No Man's Land that's infested with them and I'm working with someone who has so much more experience than me oh crap.'

Yet for all of his character flaws, when he's not being overrun by his insecurity and his own ego Emil can be a real sweetheart. He's good with kids, even his demon cousins who drove the babysitter to quit and pushed Tuuri and Lalli over the edge within minutes, doesn't hold grudges or get angry about petty things, and takes it really hard when animals die. There's also an interesting contrast in his behavior when only his life is on the line ("SIIIIIIGRUUUUUN! HEEEELP MEEE!") versus when one of his friends is in danger. In most works, a character like Emil whose fear is often played for laughs would throw his teammates to the metaphorical wolves to give himself more time to get away. Emil, though, does the exact opposite - he spends the entirety of the attack on the Dalahastan shielding Lalli with his own body, even though it's clear that he's terrified out of his mind. Not only that, but so far there have been two separate occasions where Sigrun has had to physically restrain him from rushing right into a troll nest when he was afraid for Lalli's life, even if said troll nest was on fire.

As the story's progressed we've seen less of Emil's egotistical side (though it does still rear its head from time to time) and more of his sweet side, and I think that's because he's been slowly feeling more secure. His sweet side tends to come out when he's dealing with anyone who's less likely to judge him - children, animals, and Lalli who doesn't speak the same language. I even have a pet theory that the language barrier has been an asset in his bonding with Lalli rather than a hindrance - he can't put his foot in his mouth if the other person doesn't understand a word he's saying. I think that his time with this group has been really good for him, not least because his friendship with Lalli and his apprenticeship with Sigrun especially have been the first truly positive relationships he's had in a long, long time.


At any rate, yeah, I really like Emil. He's so, so flawed, yet at the same time so, so likeable, and we've seen so much character development from him over only a few days, comic-time.
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SectoBoss

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #130 on: February 14, 2016, 12:40:51 PM »
So here's a writeup I did on Emil a long while back that I'd like to re-post here:

Spoiler: This got long • show
Okay so first of all at this point Emil is definitely one of my favorite characters, second only to Sigrun, and one of the things that I love about him is that he is realistically, sympathetically flawed. From what we've seen of Emil, at least in the beginning of the story, he tends to be boastful and talk himself up a lot, but I'd say that this surface arrogance is covering for a whole lot of deep, deep insecurity.

Emil's early education consisted of being taught by a lot of expensive private tutors, but it seems as if they didn't do their job. Given that he was allowed to pick his own curriculum, supposedly excelled in everything he was taught, but then crashed as soon as he entered the public school system, it isn't too hard to deduce that what in fact happened is that those tutors never corrected any of his mistakes, only gave him an endless stream of praise. Maybe his parents threatened to fire them if he did anything less than excellent in every subject, but in any case, he went from having zero actual guidance in his early life to getting little to no positive feedback when he entered public school, made even worse by the fact that he'd probably never been corrected for anything and thus had never learned how to take criticism. So instead of trying to improve himself, he instead blamed his teachers for having it in for him.

Things probably didn't improve when he joined the ranks of the cleansers; his career was slow, and if he didn't get much positive feedback in public school, he definitely didn't get any in the military. Not to mention he seems to be very poorly socialized as well; if his parents were overly indulgent and wouldn't allow his tutors to fail him in anything, they probably also didn't bother to discipline or correct him when their precious baby said something that was out of line. Recall Emil's tendency to put his foot in his mouth, to say stupid or insensitive things without thinking (the worst being when he was dismissive of the deaths of hundreds of people in the battle of Kastrup, which was a bit much for even the stoic Mikkel) yet be overly worried about superficial things like appearances.

I think that on some level, Emil knows that people don't like him. Minna has even said in the Author Notes that he hasn't had many friends in his life, and those he did have didn't stick around for long. A good part of this is his own fault, as we've seen again... and again... and again, but rereading the comic I can't help but notice how downright condescending his uncle and aunt can be when they talk to him, and find it incredibly sad that the people who should be most supportive of him seem to be the ones who are least willing to give him a chance. He might have even figured out that he has a problem with people, and that a lot of the problem is his own fault, but has chosen to fixate on the wrong thing (physical appearances, as opposed to thinking before he opens his mouth).

Which is where the insecurity comes into play. Whenever anyone speaks another language around him, Emil's default assumption seems to be that they're making fun of him behind his back, even if there's very good reason - such as Tuuri speaking Finnish with Lalli because that's the only language Lalli knows, or Mikkel speaking Icelandic with Reynir because that's the only language Reynir knows. Also note how his attitude went from boastful when he was safe in Sweden, to 'I have to prove myself!' when he was out on his first mission, and the differences in his interactions with Tuuri and Sigrun. With Tuuri, he was outright boasting about how much of a prodigy he was; with Sigrun, it seemed less like he was trying to inflate his accomplishments and more like trying to cover for his inexperience. Everything he said there was all technically true - he had faced a giant and punched it in one of its faces; he even specified that he'd faced a troll up close before once. I think that the attack on the Dalahasten was when all of this really became real for him - 'This is what being attacked by one of these monsters is actually like and I'm going right out into a No Man's Land that's infested with them and I'm working with someone who has so much more experience than me oh crap.'

Yet for all of his character flaws, when he's not being overrun by his insecurity and his own ego Emil can be a real sweetheart. He's good with kids, even his demon cousins who drove the babysitter to quit and pushed Tuuri and Lalli over the edge within minutes, doesn't hold grudges or get angry about petty things, and takes it really hard when animals die. There's also an interesting contrast in his behavior when only his life is on the line ("SIIIIIIGRUUUUUN! HEEEELP MEEE!") versus when one of his friends is in danger. In most works, a character like Emil whose fear is often played for laughs would throw his teammates to the metaphorical wolves to give himself more time to get away. Emil, though, does the exact opposite - he spends the entirety of the attack on the Dalahastan shielding Lalli with his own body, even though it's clear that he's terrified out of his mind. Not only that, but so far there have been two separate occasions where Sigrun has had to physically restrain him from rushing right into a troll nest when he was afraid for Lalli's life, even if said troll nest was on fire.

As the story's progressed we've seen less of Emil's egotistical side (though it does still rear its head from time to time) and more of his sweet side, and I think that's because he's been slowly feeling more secure. His sweet side tends to come out when he's dealing with anyone who's less likely to judge him - children, animals, and Lalli who doesn't speak the same language. I even have a pet theory that the language barrier has been an asset in his bonding with Lalli rather than a hindrance - he can't put his foot in his mouth if the other person doesn't understand a word he's saying. I think that his time with this group has been really good for him, not least because his friendship with Lalli and his apprenticeship with Sigrun especially have been the first truly positive relationships he's had in a long, long time.


At any rate, yeah, I really like Emil. He's so, so flawed, yet at the same time so, so likeable, and we've seen so much character development from him over only a few days, comic-time.

Some interesting analysis there, and I must say I agree! I'd never really thought about the effect the transition from private tutoring to public school must have had on him but it certainly fits, doesn't it?
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Róisín

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #131 on: February 14, 2016, 12:49:03 PM »
I would not be at all surprised if Emil had been bullied and pranked, both in school and in the army.
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Lazy8

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #132 on: February 14, 2016, 12:58:52 PM »
I would not be at all surprised if Emil had been bullied and pranked, both in school and in the army.

Now that you mention it, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me either. Would definitely explain why he's so paranoid about people speaking other languages around him, and why he was so upset about Mikkel's little prank.

Also noticed another thing: while Emil seems to be increasingly more at ease with this group, we have seen his insecurity come back a few times... but only when Reynir is involved. Because Reynir is the person he doesn't know at all, can't communicate with, and has indirectly caused him to make a fool of himself (even if that was actually Sigrun's fault). Plus Emil doesn't know that Reynir won't hold that whole "prisoner" thing against him... so yeah, with that whole "mortal enemy" thing, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's used to having each and every mistake held over his head.
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LooNEY_DAC

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #133 on: February 14, 2016, 02:36:49 PM »
...rereading the comic I can't help but notice how downright condescending his uncle and aunt can be when they talk to him, and find it incredibly sad that the people who should be most supportive of him seem to be the ones who are least willing to give him a chance.
Actually, while I agree that Torbjörn is both condescending and dismissive of Emil, it almost seems like Siv, while still treating Emil as not terribly bright, enjoys him more than her own children ("I think it's so cute that you don't know how distances on a map work!" vs. "Go hang on your father, please!").
...I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's used to having each and every mistake held over his head.
Also, his "I could run for hours" is probably a reflection on the military solution to fitness problems: DO IT MORE, which might stick in his mind as another example of having his failures held over his head.

Lazy8

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #134 on: February 14, 2016, 02:43:00 PM »
Actually, while I agree that Torbjörn is both condescending and dismissive of Emil, it almost seems like Siv, while still treating Emil as not terribly bright, enjoys him more than her own children ("I think it's so cute that you don't know how distances on a map work!" vs. "Go hang on your father, please!").

Oh, wow. So here we have more evidence that the Vasterstrom family just seems to have an all-around history of bad parenting. :(

Nevertheless, I have a very strong hope that Emil will be the one to buck this trend. After all, we all saw how good he is with kids. (Not to mention I have a massive soft spot for characters who end up doing much better by their kids than their bad parents did by them.)
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