Author Topic: Character Development: Emil  (Read 44279 times)

Piney

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2014, 12:31:57 PM »
Back to Emil: we have yet to see how his abilities truly pan out. We know he has a high opinion of his academic abilities and he suggests his parents felt the same, and we see (repeatedly) that he can be quick to criticise and fails to think the criticism through. This is perhaps more to do with his emotional balance than his intellectual capacity: he suffers from a very fragile and over-inflated ego and perhaps somewhat poor impulse-control. He is anxious, so he tries to large himself up and put others down. This is so typical of many young men!

At the same time he is caring and - when in a situation where he feels confident - friendly and kind. He is also capable of bravery.

He first of all needs to learn to keep his mouth shut when he is uncertain of what has just been said, and he also needs to achieve something that will toughen up his fragile ego. Perhaps Mikkel really does need to give him a knock or two; and Emil needs to do something worthwhile! I hope that with a few rough edges knocked off and some genuine achievements under his belt he might turn into a very worthy person.

Yes! I agree with all of this, well said.

[Plus there is always the possibility that he inteded to spend the rest of his life studying because he never made any decisions for himself? Or because it was the easy way to spend his time? Or because he didn't care since he had money? Remember, he said that he succeded with no effort at all. Someone who is interested in something DOES put more efforts in it.]
This is what I thought - that he was intending to spend the rest of his life as an academic because it was something he was used to doing. He may have been interested in his studies, but how interested could he be if he describes joining the cleansers as his "true calling"? Do you think if he was so intent on being an academic, regardless of him being in public school, that he would be so interested in the military?


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Sunflower

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #76 on: December 18, 2014, 10:01:08 PM »
I stumbled across this quote today in an advice column.  It seemed relevant to Emil's character:

Q. My mother-in-law repeatedly tells my 4-year-old daughter she is superior to other children. Yes, she uses that word, says it with a straight face and takes care to explain what it means. ... What’s up with that? My offspring is indeed very bright, but I don’t see what is gained by telling her she’s awesome and her peers are not. My husband thinks it’s no big deal and that I should chill. Should I?

A. ...In chapters 1 and 5 of “NurtureShock” by Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman the message is:

 When kids hear repeatedly that they’re wonderful, it actually inhibits their willingness to try hard and risk failure; they become invested in preserving everyone’s image of them as smart or superior. Instead of building up their self-esteem, such praise has the inverse effect of eroding it.

The research leading to this conclusion also supports giving praise for hard work, which encourages a child to invest in that instead.
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Sunflower

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #77 on: January 02, 2015, 02:04:25 AM »
Re: the scene on p. 237 where Mikkel 'fesses up and removes Emil's "face-cancer" bandage.

Crazybean
I'm getting the feeling that that wasn't the first joke that was made at Emil's expense. He's such an easy target. So maybe that's why he's so angry.

Richard Weir 
Ineed! And not only actual jokes, but he's the sort who might feel he was being made the butt of a joke any time he isn't sure what is going on. Not because he's stupid, but because his upbringing left him unable to easily interpret banter and other forms of lighthearted socialising.

Crazybean 
He's got such a fragile ego with his constant fretting. School was probably not enjoyable for him...
I hope we get to see some flashbacks.
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
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Sunflower

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2015, 08:07:07 AM »
Going back to p. 230, discussion re: Emil's thoughtless dismissal of the Danish army's efforts at Kastrup:

Ann Marie
... the more I look at Emil's expression in panel 4 - I kinda feel for him. He looks genuinely horrified when he realizes the impact of his words. I mean, yeah he's thoughtless and self-absorbed, but he's not deliberately cruel by any means. And he seems to have learned from this.

Or maybe this is more like when he discovered the stain on his shirt, and he's really just worried about how he looks to other people and not Mikkel's feelings. Erm.

Miss Honeyham 
I honestly feel so badly for poor Emil. He's so awkward. He seems well meaning, but he's just... ah, dare I say it? A homeschooler. One who tends towards bravado in order to cover up social incapabilities.

Ann Marie 
Yea... hey! My kids are homeschooled! ;-) But yeah, I think his family put him on a bit of a pedestal and he's... recovering from that. And we know he doesn't understand Mikkel that well so I think he just opened his mouth to sound "cool" before he'd even processed what had been said, or realized how close Mikkel probably was to the actual events.

But I think he has a sweet nature in general. Kids like him, and cats.. well, Lalli.

Grace
As a homeschool graduate, I resent that remark! (actually, I do have several *very stereotypical* homeschooled friends, so I don't resent it too much :) )

Honestly though, I kind of wonder if Emil has a bit of social anxiety. He was so concerned about making a good impression on Tuuri and Lalli, and almost had a panic attack when he thought that his impression was ruined. I don't think he's vain, I think he's terrified that anyone he meets will hate him.

Crazybean 
I'd thought about something like that too. Emil comes off to me as someone who is desperate to make friends ('just need to make a good first impression and everything will be going well from there') while at the same time his crippling fear screws up any attempts he makes. He *always* assumes the worst and projects it on his person.
'Did that man just call me ugly..'
'The teachers were out to get me'
'they'll think of me as a pig... they're already whispering about me'
'There better not be anything mean about me in there (the crew files)'
Maybe this anxiety stems from bad experiences in public school?

Incognita 
I'm curious where these stereotyped awkward homeschoolers are hanging out.

Miss Honeyham 
I was homeschooled, and after growing up knowing only other homeschoolers it was a total shock to meet other people who'd actually had friends growing up. Almost nobody I'd known as a student had any social interaction besides 4-H once a week, and that shows.

Incognita 
Perhaps it's a geographical distance thing, then. I live in a large metropolitan area and we had lot of social interaction, particularly classes and other activities like dance, scouting, choir, church, and family events. We also spent a lot of time with each other (both fighting and working together) and we still have very good relationships with each other and our cousins. Most of that would be difficult with longer distances to go.
 
Celidah 
It depends, really. I know homeschoolers who run the gamut. I can think of at least two homeschooled acquaintances off the top of my head who had a lot of social interaction through extracurriculars, local homeschooling group activities and what have you. They're very well-adjusted, socially graceful, and popular people.

But I know others who fit the awkward homeschooler stereotype. I myself was the latter until I went to college and found a good group of friends who helped me come out of my shell. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still a maladjusted weirdo (points to avatar), I'm just the fun kind now. :3

The most socially awkward and creepiest guy I've ever met, though, was in an institutional public school. *shudders at the memory*

I think a lot of factors contribute to how well kids adjust socially, and it's a lot more complex than just how they're educated.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 07:58:59 PM by Sunflower »
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
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OrigamiOwl

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2015, 02:17:24 AM »
This isn't really pertaining to emil's current character development, but more to his background and personality in general...
I'm not sure if this has been asked yet- it probably has, but: do we know (I don't think we do) if Emil has any brothers or sisters?

>Be warned: the following is a bunch of horrible ramblings.<

Option 1: He has a general air of only-child-ness about him, but I would assume his parents would be a little more involved or interested in his life if he was their only child. But maybe that's just how they are.

Option 2: If he were to have siblings, I don't think he would be a middle-child because that would (maybe) give him role models to aspire to or younger siblings to be a role model for.... which I don't think really matches up with what little we've heard from him about his home life, or how he's acted so far. Which would leave either the eldest or youngest, and my dorky reasoning for each option is as follows... I'm so sorry please excuse my rambles they will end I promise

2A- Eldest: His failure in the academic field he was "excelling" in for so long could be a sign that this was a path not traveled before for children in Emil's family, with no role model knowledgable of the situation (that we know of) to guide him through academia, and only his own unsuccessful self instead, his inevitable failure in academia would make sense.
This may explain why he is so good with children, but doesn't explain why (asides from pyromania and glory-seeking) he would leap at the chance to join the highly-dangerous Cleansers if there are littlies waiting for him to come home.

2B- Youngest: Slightly more probable than being the eldest, because if there were older and more successful siblings, then this may explain the absence of parental interest and why he was ushered into a field that he was clearly not suited for but undertook nonetheless; because it was what his older siblings had done.
Being the youngest would also explain his "need" to prove himself and set himself apart from the rest of the family, or even just be noticed by them. And could explain why he gets along with children, because young relatives tend to get along most of the time...plus this would give him a chance to be the eldest of the bunch.

Of the Cattank Crew he is the youngest, so this might be a subtle mirroring of his family life, (like he finally gets the family he never had *sad violins*) or a literal reversal of his role at home as the eldest. The only other main factor that my (very tired) brain can think of is his relationship (<-- the neutral reading of the word, not the loaded-with-romantic-subtext reading ;P) with Lalli....
I think the Lalli-factor would easily fit into any of the three above crazy theories, but I'd like to hear what every/anyone else's thoughts are on the matter... ;3
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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #80 on: January 05, 2015, 02:55:25 AM »
I won't respond anything intelligent about what OrigamiOwl said, I want just to add that aside from the relationship with Lalli as a factor, there is still Emil's contact with his cousins (p. 131 and further, I guess?).

Piney

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2015, 03:11:22 AM »
I tend to still lean to him being an only child. Someone, maybe me, said before that he could just not be close to his parents because they'd always leave him with a nanny or a private tutor, as I'd think of a stereotypical rich family - a possibility for him being an only child. We know his parents certainly let him be flexible with his studies - maybe that was a tactic to keep him interested in something and away from them.

2A- Eldest: His failure in the academic field he was "excelling" in for so long could be a sign that this was a path not traveled before for children in Emil's family, with no role model knowledgable of the situation (that we know of) to guide him through academia, and only his own unsuccessful self instead, his inevitable failure in academia would make sense.
This may explain why he is so good with children, but doesn't explain why (asides from pyromania and glory-seeking) he would leap at the chance to join the highly-dangerous Cleansers if there are littlies waiting for him to come home.

2B- Youngest: Slightly more probable than being the eldest, because if there were older and more successful siblings, then this may explain the absence of parental interest and why he was ushered into a field that he was clearly not suited for but undertook nonetheless; because it was what his older siblings had done.
Being the youngest would also explain his "need" to prove himself and set himself apart from the rest of the family, or even just be noticed by them. And could explain why he gets along with children, because young relatives tend to get along most of the time...plus this would give him a chance to be the eldest of the bunch.
Regarding the first statement, I believe it was the public school system that led him to failure (too lazy to check right now), which was something completely new to his family anyway. Maybe he has a large family outside of his immediate relatives (maybe he has a lot of cousins? who knows), which could explain the 'good with kids' thing. I also think that by joining the cleansers, as they are so dangerous, he could be a wonderful role model for kids - he'd come home and they'd be all, "Wow Emil, you're so brave and awesome!!"
I do agree with you on the idea that he may feel the need to prove himself or get noticed, as he does say, "Once I'm a famous hero, they'll all regret doubting my excellence", albeit not referring to his family, but the same idea essentially.

Anyway, I'm reading these threads at 3 AM, my brain isn't working properly. I'm sure my insight's faulty.


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Sunflower

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2015, 03:30:48 AM »
I tend to still lean to him being an only child. Someone, maybe me, said before that he could just not be close to his parents because they'd always leave him with a nanny or a private tutor, as I'd think of a stereotypical rich family - a possibility for him being an only child.

...
Maybe he has a large family outside of his immediate relatives (maybe he has a lot of cousins? who knows), which could explain the 'good with kids' thing. I also think that by joining the cleansers, as they are so dangerous, he could be a wonderful role model for kids - he'd come home and they'd be all, "Wow Emil, you're so brave and awesome!!"

Just wanted an excuse to dredge up this drawing Miss Honeyham contributed back in October, of Emil playing with his little cousins:



http://ssssforum.pcriot.com/index.php?topic=35.msg2989#msg2989
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 03:32:35 AM by Sunflower »
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
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OrigamiOwl

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #83 on: January 05, 2015, 03:50:15 AM »
I tend to still lean to him being an only child. Someone, maybe me, said before that he could just not be close to his parents because they'd always leave him with a nanny or a private tutor, as I'd think of a stereotypical rich family - a possibility for him being an only child. We know his parents certainly let him be flexible with his studies - maybe that was a tactic to keep him interested in something and away from them.
Regarding the first statement, I believe it was the public school system that led him to failure (too lazy to check right now), which was something completely new to his family anyway. Maybe he has a large family outside of his immediate relatives (maybe he has a lot of cousins? who knows), which could explain the 'good with kids' thing. I also think that by joining the cleansers, as they are so dangerous, he could be a wonderful role model for kids - he'd come home and they'd be all, "Wow Emil, you're so brave and awesome!!"
I do agree with you on the idea that he may feel the need to prove himself or get noticed, as he does say, "Once I'm a famous hero, they'll all regret doubting my excellence", albeit not referring to his family, but the same idea essentially.

Anyway, I'm reading these threads at 3 AM, my brain isn't working properly. I'm sure my insight's faulty.
Oh hai, yup definitely. That makes sense :3
Speaking of which, you're able to regard some of that?? I can barely read it!! X'D ahahhaawhyamidoinganEnglishMajor I guess it's a sign that I either need to go to sleep...oooor eat that leftover steak in the fridge
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Sunflower

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #84 on: January 13, 2015, 05:20:25 PM »
I think Emil is going to have some extremely freaky dreams after this day (in-story) is over. 

He's been through a roller-coaster of emotion, starting with being shocked awake by the proximity alarm;
* Relieved to see Lalli (p. 224-25)
* Disturbed by Sigrun's confident statement about looting and fleeing (227)
* Rude to Mikkel, then ashamed (230)
* Unnerved by Window-Troll (232)
* Irked when he realizes Mikkel fooled him (237) and rushes indignantly (and blindly) into the building
* Full of joy and anticipation when he spots his first book (239)...
* Instantly followed by disappointment when the book crumbles in his hands...
* Shame and defensiveness at being scolded by Sigrun (240)...
* Total despair
* Reassured by Sigrun and Lalli (241)
* Promptly freaks out on seeing dead people.  (242)
* Smack!  Sigrun manually resets his mood. (243)
* Ouch! Sigrun slams into him!  (244)... But hey, more books?!?
* This is the happiest day of my life! (245)
* ...Wait, these books make no sense. (246)
* AAAAA!  I stepped on a horrifying dead body! 
* Shhhh... Auntie Sigrun will stop your crying.

So, to summarize, since Emil woke up a couple of hours ago, he's had:
* Half a dozen jolts of adrenaline (both fear and joy)
* A glimpse of a monster
* His first up-close contact with dead bodies
* Immersion in a gross, moldy, smelly environment that he's not used to; disgust is very memorable
* Books in hand ( = prospect of untold wealth, but also bitter disappointment)
* A smack and several arm-hugs/friendly backslaps/hair-strokes from his commanding officer, an attractive (though rather terrifying) older woman
* Head-pats from Lalli

I suspect his dreams will look like something out of Hieronymus Bosch as his subconscious tries to process all this. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 12:09:24 AM by Sunflower »
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
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Richard Weir

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #85 on: January 13, 2015, 07:49:55 PM »
Where's the vote-up button? Your post deserves a vote-up!
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LooNEY_DAC

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #86 on: January 13, 2015, 11:44:14 PM »
While I'm thinking about it, it seems to me that Emil's brushing-off of Mikkel's recounting of the Battle of Isandalwana Kastrup is in character both for someone his age & for Emil specifically. Remember, Mikkel is only a year younger than Emil's Aunt Siv, so Emil sees him as yet another adult prosing on at him about stuff in a manner most guys his age tune out automatically anyway. Cf "I didn't catch most of that…"

Where's the vote-up button? Your post deserves a vote-up!
I concur.

Sunflower

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2015, 12:13:05 AM »
While I'm thinking about it, it seems to me that Emil's brushing-off of Mikkel's recounting of the Battle of Isandalwana Kastrup is in character both for someone his age & for Emil specifically.


Is the battle of Isand'hlwana standard knowledge for military people, or do I detect a Flashman fan?

Meanwhile, thanks for the kind words.  I have vivid dreams myself whenever my daytime emotion/data buffer is overloaded, so I can guess what the kid's dreams will look like.  Unfortunately, my drawing abilities stop at "Hangman." 
"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."
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LooNEY_DAC

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2015, 12:32:34 AM »
Blame the History Channel for showing the movie "Zulu". Besides, great disasters tend to get remembered, as do great victories.

Meanwhile, thanks for the kind words.  I have vivid dreams myself whenever my daytime emotion/data buffer is overloaded, so I can guess what the kid's dreams will look like.

Yeah, I glanced at the "Weird Dreams" thread on the "General" board, but mine tend to be unprintably horrific when I can remember them. I blame bad food.

Unfortunately, my drawing abilities stop at "Hangman." 
Same here. Grrrrrrr.

Piney

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2015, 12:59:16 AM »
I think Emil is going to have some extremely freaky dreams after this day (in-story) is over. 

And I'm not going to place bets on whether there'll be a troll to deal with soon... which could mean no sleep for poor Emil at all... but hey, their day's not over.  ;)
I might bet that Emil's gonna be screaming like a little girl again soon though.


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