Post by: Fimbulvarg on September 01, 2014, 03:09:58 PM
The thread may be merged with or superceded by other threads in the future, but it will suffice for now.
Post by: Eich on September 01, 2014, 03:19:41 PM
Post by: noako on September 01, 2014, 04:22:17 PM
How about one thread for one week?
Edit: Ooh, of course, splitting them by chapters could work too..!!
Post by: Eich on September 01, 2014, 04:24:42 PM
I'd prefer not to have one thread for all the future updates, they always get so cluttered and busy and... It's not easy get into later, if you don't keep checking the updates. Adding to that, the update rate is lot faster than most of the comics...That sounds good to me. What does everybody think?
How about one thread for one week?
Post by: Nimphy on September 01, 2014, 04:28:43 PM
That sounds good to me. What does everybody think?
I think that pretty much defeats the sense of a forum, actually. We created this thing to discuss and not lose our discussions, so where's the difference between a daily discussion and a weekly one? SSSS is, after all, a slow-paced comic.
Post by: noako on September 01, 2014, 04:37:45 PM
I think that pretty much defeats the sense of a forum, actually. We created this thing to discuss and not lose our discussions, so where's the difference between a daily discussion and a weekly one? SSSS is, after all, a slow-paced comic.
The comic has started to get +500 comments every day in Disqus. Imagine one thread trying to fit all of those comments, piling up, every day.
That's why I feel it's much better for everyone to split the discussion, by page, week, chapter, month or anything - but one big thread for it all..... It might work for some people, sure, but ....
Post by: Fimbulvarg on September 01, 2014, 04:38:13 PM
Post by: Nimphy on September 01, 2014, 04:41:03 PM
I was considering one thread per chapter after I posted this thread. I think it depends on the number of posts we get per page. If we get 10-20 one thread is really to be preferred, but if we get a 100 then things will get a bit flooded.
One thread per chapter looks good. Still, I don't think we'll get more than 20 comments a day...
Post by: Annie on September 01, 2014, 05:48:55 PM
Post by: Eich on September 01, 2014, 05:52:31 PM
In the future, I could see us having threads with more focus - e.g. a thread for future speculation, or a thread dedicated to a certain character's awesomeness, etc. I think it'll depend on how we see things playing out on the forum in the next few weeks.A speculation thread is a great idea. That could be fun with a weekly or page-to-page poll or something.
Post by: noako on September 01, 2014, 06:07:39 PM
In the future, I could see us having threads with more focus - e.g. a thread for future speculation, or a thread dedicated to a certain character's awesomeness, etc. I think it'll depend on how we see things playing out on the forum in the next few weeks.
That's a good idea. Depending on another people, I'd expect we might see shipping threads, or like, "what would you/your great-grandchildren do if you lived in year 90?".... Actually I might want to make that one, heh.
Post by: Fimbulvarg on September 01, 2014, 06:13:33 PM
That's a good idea. Depending on another people, I'd expect we might see shipping threads, or like, "what would you/your great-grandchildren do if you lived in year 90?".... Actually I might want to make that one, heh.
Seems like there are a lot of threads just waiting to be made.
Post by: Annie on September 01, 2014, 06:23:24 PM
Quote
Seems like there are a lot of threads just waiting to be made.
Oh, yessss.... This is a very rich world Minna has created. There's a lot to discuss, debate and explore. Didn't some people even try doing an RPG set in the SSSS-verse?
Post by: noako on September 01, 2014, 06:25:57 PM
Oh, yessss.... This is a very rich world Minna has created. There's a lot to discuss, debate and explore. Didn't some people even try doing an RPG set in the SSSS-verse?
That makes sense, I mean, the little fullbody profile pictures in the cast page already look like they could be in some game showing different jobs...
RPG of SSSS would be awesome but I think we still know too little to make anything sensible.
Post by: Richard Weir on September 01, 2014, 07:39:56 PM
I would be happier if we kept this forum for things that need more considered, long-term discussion. The example I came up with was character development threads, where we could log the life-lessons each character learns, changes of personality as the result of experiences and so on. The other BIG use is already underway with the poetry thread which is exactly what this forum can achieve that the Disqus system sucks at!
Speculation threads are also a very good idea - lets have lots of those!
Post by: Annie on September 01, 2014, 08:16:01 PM
Quote
I would be happier if we kept this forum for things that need more considered, long-term discussion. The example I came up with was character development threads, where we could log the life-lessons each character learns, changes of personality as the result of experiences and so on. The other BIG use is already underway with the poetry thread which is exactly what this forum can achieve that the Disqus system sucks at!
Seconded heartily!
Post by: Eich on September 01, 2014, 08:38:34 PM
Can I suggest that we avoid running the forum into the ground with topics discussing the latest update. We don't need 300 posts a day saying "Yuck!" "Lalli = cute!" and so on - Discuss works fine for that!This is the best case made so far for a single thread. In the name of fairness: any objections?
I would be happier if we kept this forum for things that need more considered, long-term discussion. The example I came up with was character development threads, where we could log the life-lessons each character learns, changes of personality as the result of experiences and so on. The other BIG use is already underway with the poetry thread which is exactly what this forum can achieve that the Disqus system sucks at!
Speculation threads are also a very good idea - lets have lots of those!
Post by: StellersJayC on September 02, 2014, 01:22:57 AM
Quote
This is the best case made so far for a single thread. In the name of fairness: any objections?
No objections here!
Quote
Posted by: noako
« on: Today at 02:22:17 PM » Insert Quote
I'd prefer not to have one thread for all the future updates, they always get so cluttered and busy and... It's not easy get into later, if you don't keep checking the updates. Adding to that, the update rate is lot faster than most of the comics...
How about one thread for one week?
I don't have any ideas about thread-frequency, but to keep it un-cluttered all we really need to do is be very specific.
NO: "Hey... Remember those space men? They sure were weird weren't they?"
YES: On page 174 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=174) there were people dressed as space-men. (At least that is how others referred to them. It was also the comment section that told me their job was to clean the train - I'm a little tired and am not thinking straight.) They seemed really at ease before the train appeared and utterly shocked after. It makes me wonder just how often trolls attack trains, how long train-cleaners usually stay in employment, how much damage trolls usually do, and how big of a range thei radios have. Any ideas?
In the yes example, the commenter was very clear about what they were talking about and had a point behind the comment. If everyone did something similar to the 'yes' comment it would be much less cluttered. (And remove the "yuck/Lalli=cute" comments from the middle of serious discussions about year 90 agriculture.)
I'm not saying this is a perfect solution, feel free to poke all the holes in it you like. :)
Post by: Nimphy on September 02, 2014, 02:04:05 AM
That makes sense, I mean, the little fullbody profile pictures in the cast page already look like they could be in some game showing different jobs...
RPG of SSSS would be awesome but I think we still know too little to make anything sensible.
I created that SSSS RPG already, but many didn't get to see it and it's sorta dead. I was thinking of making another one here - just let me fetch the rules and modify them a bit to fit the new discoveries. But on second thought, you're right, I'd wait a little more.
Post by: BrainBlow on September 03, 2014, 06:50:28 AM
Post by: Fimbulvarg on September 03, 2014, 07:03:55 AM
Post by: Mayabird on September 03, 2014, 09:59:10 AM
Post by: Hedge14 on September 03, 2014, 10:18:03 AM
I'd also like to know how recently that outbreak was and how bad it was. Sounds to me like they've just experienced a serious population crash and now don't have the manpower to continue to attempt scavenging/cleansing.
Kind of creepy to think that Bornholm might be quite empty and almost ghost town because of the outbreak. Large empty spaces and very few people = really disturbing and sad.
Post by: Eich on September 03, 2014, 11:29:30 PM
I feel like I need to archive dive, so I can summarize the story to this point for myself and get pumped all over again.
Post by: Skatiebobatie on September 04, 2014, 11:23:27 PM
I'd prefer not to have one thread for all the future updates, they always get so cluttered and busy and... It's not easy get into later, if you don't keep checking the updates. Adding to that, the update rate is lot faster than most of the comics...The comic "Questionable Content" also updates M-F. Their forum has one weekly thread for comic discussion, usually opened by a mod, and it seems to work well. You don't have to slog through posts to find an older point you were looking for, but neither does it clog up the boards. If there were a main board for discussions and then a subcategory for the weekly posts, that might answer well here, too.
How about one thread for one week?
Edit: Ooh, of course, splitting them by chapters could work too..!!
Post by: Superdark33 on September 26, 2014, 08:42:49 AM
Posting threads is good, but sometimes theres just this tiny question or discussion that doesnt fit anywhere, and to make a new thread is just a waste.
Enter ComDisc, In this thread the status of the comic as a whole will be discussed, small questions, big questions, why start a new thread to die after a few posts when you can house them all in one?
Unlike comments, ComDisc talks not about just the current page, but the previous and future, react and discuss.
If a discussion shows it clutters the thread, why not open a thread for it?
Bottom line: ComDisc threads make forums more orginized.
So lets start: Other than treasure hunting for Torbjorn, what do you think the crew needs to accomplish?
Post by: Sunflower on October 08, 2014, 12:26:33 AM
-- Your Editor
tristen
"but now… let's all get rich". Ho-hum. At the risk of bringing in some unpalatable politics, it's a shame to see profit-scrounging capitalism continue to rear its ugly head in post-apocalyptic society - especially amongst our social-loving scandinavian descendants… how about: "but now… let's all go out there and enrich our cultural heritage by retrieving lost… [and so on]..."
Glory? ok. Adventure, wonder, and cultural heroism? great. Accumulation of wealth in a barely-industrial, near fiefdom-like-society - meh. grmbl. sigh.
Tim
Every explorer and adventurer in the history of mankind has for the most part been motivated by personal profit, some by glory, some the desire to benefit their country, a small number a desire to spread their faith or try to benefit those people they find, but the vast majority are motivated by the idea that they will become filthy rich.
A Large number [such as] Leif the Lucky and Erick the Red were motivated not by National or Cultural desires but for personal and familial profit.
California has gained as many immigrants (from within the US and without) due to the desire of individuals to make money. Columbus sailed to Hispaniola to make money for himself (along with the fame) and later proved to be exceedingly cruel and avaricious.
This is simply the nature of the average individual who decides to risk his life on such quests as these.
tristen --> Tim
I don't believe historical precedent is an indicator (or justifier) of the current enlightened (though not as widespread as I hoped by now) mind. I could find a lot of historical precedent where there was a perceived benefit to justify a lot of atrocities such as racism, slavery, cannibalism, genocide, and so on…
Past behaviour is not a tool for judgment of current values of right and wrong - if anything it is an endless series of cautionary tales based on backward psychology and sociology - now updated. To compare an adult mind of more than 50 years ago is to compare a child's mind to an adult's in terms of maturity, sophistication, and worldliness today.
DaiJB --> tristen
Yeah - but, that's been Torbjörn's motivation from the start, hasn't it? I mean - its even in his profile! :/
That's one reason I'd *really* like this mission to take an unexpected turn that, while still resulting in "success", isn't the sort of monetary windfall that the Four Misers were expecting... ;)
tristen --> DaiJB
Hear! Hear!
Recover the treasures and knowledge but rack up enough costs and damages that no one gets overcompensated or enriched.
Sir. Orc --> tristen
Why would it be so bad for them to make a profit? I mean, the nordic council didn't want to fund them, they had to make the most of what they got. Actually turning a profit off the books means that at least they will have more funds for the next expedition. (I mean none of the backers are employed, they are hinging on this being a success in order to support themselves.)
Also it's not like they aren't paying the crew, and even for as meager pay as it is, they all see something to be gained from the expedition (except maybe Lalli). The expedition will make them famous one way or another, and it will salvage valuable lore that would otherwise be lost. So why is it so bad that the backers turn a profit?
TBA --> Sir. Orc
Why is profit bad indeed? If I remember correctly most of us told Minna to pocket a good chunk or her aRTD campaign rather then spend it on more perks. Of course Minna transferred that into being able to make more SSSS comics.
Ideally that is what is supposed to be done with profits.
Of course being one of the cogs in the U.S. military industrial complex, I saw that the Reagan/trickle-down economics did not in fact work like this. The result has been the death of much of the aviation industry and it's work force. As the suppliers are 2 weeks or 2 months away from bankruptcy and the workforce leaves because fixing boats, welding water tanks and even driving a bus pays better.
Tim
The Space race is the only instance that I can think of where the explorers weren't motivated by a desire for personal profit ( in that particular case it was the desire of the Astronauts to prove that America & Capitalism were superior to USSR's Communism.)
Post by: Sunflower on October 08, 2014, 12:41:09 AM
tristen --> TSCTH
...I was hoping a different means of post-scarcity tech (my purest form of non-capitalism behaviour, etc.) would make itself known in the future (e.g. unlimited personal fusion power to run our own hand-held replicators ;)
TSCTH --> tristen
...You raised a very interesting point (the belief that all economical systems are either capitalist by modern standards or "primitive"-ish), so i ran with it. ^_^
And as for post-scarcity, it's not really gonna happen, since post-scarcity would ultimately require the non-existence of humans. And once humans are gone, scarcity and non-scarcity in terms of humanity's resources becomes a moot point.
We will likely reach a point were we can drop both a monetary type economy (what we have now) and a material type economy (what we once had), by using automation, robotics and fAI/gAI to make everything needed for survival free.
But in all likelihood we'd still have some kinda economy running, as they'd still be many people with many different needed not based in survival. So experiences (books, movies, theater, vacations, human interaction, games, etc), novelty (one-off art, improvised music, etc) and many other things could very well form the basis of this economy.
tristen --> TSCTH
Perhaps. But as soon as we reasonably sever the demand/supply relationship (lose care in waste? excess?) and create a certain quantity and complexity of experiences that no human could ever hope to completely devour in a lifetime, witness a MMPORG with places and activities so individual and all-consuming, that we have effectively hit post-scarcity.
Doesn't an economy pre-suppose trade or desiring to have something someone else has so that they can no longer have it? But if you create your own thing, custom, every time - never desiring anything else anyone has except as a point of reference to influence your own wants, is that not effectively post-scarcity? An infinite tree of branches. Do we need to be plugged into a Matrix-type enviro, where 90% of our wants are digital, to achieve this post-scarcity? Is that bad? Does that dehumanize us? I'm not convinced.
Effective post-scarcity is likely very close - though it may mean the end of tactile inter-relationships most of the time. It means we'll also likely need to be mining the asteroids and building a Dyson sphere...
TSCTH --> tristen
Post-scarcity would require fulfilling every need or want, which creates a huge problem for production. For example, if someone desires something that goes against the laws of physics, then that cannot be fulfilled and therefor creates scarcity.
And an economy does not pre-suppose trade or taking other people's stuff (taking someone else's stuff, so that they can no longer have it, is just plain old greed).
An economy is any system of production, distribution/trade and consumption of limited goods/services. But, it can also be described as any system fixing the problems arising from a group shifting from extreme egalitarian self-reliance (producing most of what you use and getting the rest for free), to systematic labor distribution and tribal politics.
Oh, and i never said post-scarcity would dehumanize us nor that it would require living in a digital world.
I actually think eliminating our current system and replacing it with one not based on money/materials, is vital to the survival of them human species.
tristen
Actually, that's one of my favourite SF tropes (?) is for a society to find some future tech (or past future tech) as it were, that enables some great benefit not currently available...
Sir. Orc --> tristen
These people don't have cars. I'm reasonably sure that personal fusion power isn't in the picture, or purely theoretical economic models.
tristen --> Sir. Orc
Not that we know about. Secret DARPA plan that was hidden away next to that infamous scandinavian seed vault? Untold energy and biological treasures? Who knows? This story may not limit itself to a simple stumbling through ancient-modern-day-ruins (?) of northern Europe to simply battle trolls but also uncover other technologies, atrocities, or conspiracies… what was that old SF catch-phrase "the truth is out there…" [Editor's Note: Mulder's credo from "The X-Files."]
Sir. Orc
Your society would have to be populated by people who are effectively gods in order to achieve post scarcity, as even being able to transmute stuff out of thin air still requires matter and energy to drive it.
Sir. Orc --> tristen
What you're probably thinking of is better described as either-post singularity, or post-digital. It's just another technological shift, but resources are still being distributed and allocated, and they are still finite, even if the average consumer doesn't know better. On the macro level, something still has to be driving everything.
Post by: Sunflower on October 08, 2014, 12:48:01 AM
Sir. Orc --> tristen
Why would it be so bad for them to make a profit? I mean, the nordic council didn't want to fund them, they had to make the most of what they got. Actually turning a profit off the books means that at least they will have more funds for the next expedition. (I mean none of the backers are employed, they are hinging on this being a success in order to support themselves.)
Also it's not like they aren't paying the crew, and even for as meager pay as it is, they all see something to be gained from the expedition (except maybe Lalli). The expedition will make them famous one way or another, and it will salvage valuable lore that would otherwise be lost. So why is it so bad that the backers turn a profit?
tristen --> Sir. Orc
Better to make any enrichment fall into some communal pot, where a vetted lottery to fund future trips could happen.
Sir. Orc --> tristen
It wouldn't go to funding the trips. Remember? The nordic council didn't want to spend money on this. What makes you think that they would want to fund the next trip? Or the one after that?
tristen --> Sir. Orc
Loud public outcry. Grass roots populism. Motivated group (mob) desire to learn the past through sending a group of adventurers out to recover knowledge, etc. Point: not some barely-accountable council. Some kind of common sort-of-binding referendum or such...
Sir. Orc --> tristen
In the prologue Taru mentions that someone finally gave them money. In the little info-pages the Danes are described as "obsessed" over the past. The Swedish prefer to raze the ruins and all the books within to reclaim territory faster rather than salvage anything. The "mob desire" to learn about the past simply isn't there. It's up to private groups like Torbjorn's to salvage anything at all, and it was either dumb luck or similar greedy desires which allowed any books to be salvaged at all. Also, the populations still numbers in the thousands, try getting a thousand people to decide on anything in a timely manner.
Post by: Sunflower on October 08, 2014, 02:03:26 AM
SnootsDwagon
Ohhhh they is now invoking magic spells eh? And the most powerful ones existent: the ones that call on Murphy's Law and focus vast amounts of it into one localized area! They include:
* How hard can it be?
* At least it can't get any worse.
* Don't worry, I've done this before.
* What can go wrong?
And the ever popular...
* Hey, watch this!
Euodiachloris
You forgot a few...
* Oh, what does this do?
* Is that supposed to sound/ smell/ look/ taste like that?
* At least it's fine out...
* Don't worry: it was a bargain/ on offer/ two for the price of one!
SparkyDragon
* No, it's not broken! Just do this and it works great!
* Probably nothing.
* Come on, nobody will notice it's missing!
Phyre Storm
* Nobody will notice me hurling the thing I broke across a large room.
* It's a perfectly fine idea to be a dick to the guy with the flamethrowers.
* No need to check the crates before we load them.
* By all means, let the person who can't see over the dashboard drive!
SnootsDwagon
* Cut the green wire.
* Well, it's all downhill from here.
* At least it's not raining.
* I've never been sick a day in my life!
* This one is just as good.
* I finally decided on a cell phone company.
DaiJB
*Yes, I'm sure I turned the power off...
*Just need to lean a *little* bit further to reach...
* Hey, watch me pass this truck on the inside!
* No problem, big dogs love me...
* I'm just a bit rusty, that's all...
* Let's split up, we'll cover more ground that way...(the reason I hated Fred)
And the one that is absolutely disastrous when said to small children and pets:
* Don't bother me now, I'm concentrating...
Greenwood Goat
* It'll be a false alarm - I guarantee it.
* There's always a generous safety margin with these things.
* One brake is enough. We won't need to stop suddenly in open country, anyway.
* That flashing light is put there for idiots, we have plenty of fuel.
* Those redlines are just warnings.
* Once we get airborne, we'll be fine.
* Yeah, the gauge has reached the bottom, but there's at least two litres left in the tank.
* It's just a little steam. Or smoke. It always does that.
* Flight plans are just bureaucracy.
* It's just bubbles in the fuel line; it'll keep on going like this for miles.
* Of course I'll remember the way back.
* So what if it's getting dark? I get around my house in the dark just fine.
* The petrol station will be around the next bend or so, and why would it be closed at this hour...?
Ole_the_Inventor
- Hey, it stopped ticking
- I think it is tame
- I know what I'm doing
- They always rattle when you shake them
- There is always diesel in the bilge water
- Shall I press OK now?
Sharion
- Once more, with feeling!
- This seems like a safe place to make camp.
- I can kill it with my bare hands.
- Jump!
- I think it finally died.
- Why do they have a tank?!
- But it's sooo cute...!
And a bonus one:
- These are ancient runes, saying: "Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." Let's go in, I can't wait to read all the books we'll find here!
Peter Sadlon
* Don't worry, I've done this before.
Post by: OrigamiOwl on October 08, 2014, 02:14:45 AM
Heavily featuring Sigrun and Emil....
Post by: Sharion on October 08, 2014, 03:20:11 AM
"Here, catch!"
Post by: Nimphy on October 08, 2014, 05:16:55 AM
After reading some comments of pyromania in "Scene's we'd like to see", I'd also add:
"Here, catch!"
And don't forget the "The situation is under control" and of course the immortal "He. Hehehehe. Hehehahaha. Hahahah. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!"
Post by: Mayabird on October 08, 2014, 10:11:46 AM
The Vasterstroms (Emil, Torbjorn, Siv) used to be rich; the culture may be pretty egalitarian, but it's already established that some animals are more equal than others. Now they're not, for unspecified reasons (though I have suspicions that the family may be susceptible to get-rich(er)-quick schemes). They want to become rich again.
It's pretty simple.
Edit: And also it's been established that this may not be the best possible exploration/rediscovery team that could've been formed. It's been a wee bit bonkers from the get-go. It only passed because one council member wasn't wearing glasses at the time of the vote.
Post by: Sharion on October 08, 2014, 04:45:07 PM
And don't forget the "The situation is under control" and of course the immortal "He. Hehehehe. Hehehahaha. Hahahah. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!"
How about "It's ALIVE!"?
Post by: Krehlmar on February 25, 2016, 12:39:04 PM
Even though I get the artistic and lore/spiritual bending of it :P
Owl's cannot move their eyes
https://www.google.se/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=owls%20cannot%20move%20their%20eyes (https://www.google.se/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=owls%20cannot%20move%20their%20eyes)
Post by: JoB on February 25, 2016, 01:10:08 PM
Owl's cannot move their eyesTo repeat what has already been said on Disqus, real life owls cannot possibly have Onnis eye colors, either. 8)
(Or possibly fly from Mora to Copenhagen within moments, much less arrive fully ready for battle, and let's not take the murderghostgiant's head for scale and try to determine how impossibly HUGE it would be, as in, "Houston, we need a couple boosters for lift-off". ;) )
Post by: urbicande on February 25, 2016, 01:13:17 PM
Sorry but I just had to comment on it
Even though I get the artistic and lore/spiritual bending of it :P
Owl's cannot move their eyes
https://www.google.se/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=owls%20cannot%20move%20their%20eyes (https://www.google.se/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=owls%20cannot%20move%20their%20eyes)
Ah, but that's real world owls. I mean, in the real world we don't have hordes of murderghosts in Amelienborg either. (Even if I believed in such things, I think someone would have noticed by now).
Post by: Yuuago on March 09, 2016, 10:54:51 PM
Commentary on earlier parts of the comic rather than the latest update is also welcome. : D
*This is intended for casual discussion and quick reactions, rather than in-depth meta or things covered by more specific threads.
Post by: Yuuago on March 09, 2016, 10:55:35 PM
Anyway! Chapter 10 sure is turning out to be something. I'm not quite sure how much longer it'll go on - we're probably nearing the end of it, right? Narratively, I think I'm glad that it went double-length, but oh man, it's been a bit hard on my nerves, haha.
Buuut I bet we're not finished with that. This latest page (488 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=488))... there's no way something else isn't going to pop up before the chapter ends. Right? And I confess that I really want to see Emil use that flamethrower - if not now, then soon-eventually-later.
Post by: chaelcodes on March 10, 2016, 07:10:48 AM
Post by: Yuuago on March 10, 2016, 08:01:32 AM
I don't think Minna would've mentioned it or drawn it if he wasn't going to use it. I'm really excited too. I like the design of the flamethrower. It has a tiny can for a fuel tank. They must have learned to really improve their fuel efficiency. I'm also excited, because Emil gets to be competent. I think Emil's a great cleanser, because any time something from his cleanser training comes up, he's very competent and confident. For example, when he stopped Sigrun to blow up Tooth Scary. Another example would be when he chucked the mirror. Someone, I don't remember who, was saying they he probably had training throwing grenades and incendiaries, and that's why it traveled so far.
Mm you're probably right. : D plus the author comment definitely hinted, heheh.
And YES definitely yes. I mean, I love fail!Emil. But seeing him make himself useful will be great. I feel I haven't really seen enough of that in order to have a good feeling of how he works - both in terms of what he literally does and, like, thought process kind of stuff - so whatever happens will probably make me really happy.
(Just watch, I probably just jinxed myself /KNOCKS WOOD)
...Aaaand on a shallow note, man, I just love how sulky and vulnerable he looks on that bottom panel, oh yes. 8 )
Post by: Kiraly on March 10, 2016, 08:11:48 AM
...Aaaand on a shallow note, man, I just love how sulky and vulnerable he looks on that bottom panel, oh yes. 8 )
Haha, oh yes...I feel like every time the comic updates I'm left desperately wishing I could hug one of the characters, and right now Emil wins that prize.
Also upcoming flamethrower action, heck yes!
Post by: tamaerchen on March 10, 2016, 11:29:26 AM
And YES definitely yes. I mean, I love fail!Emil. But seeing him make himself useful will be great.
I'm very much looking forward to seeing more Emil! I wouldn't have expected it but for some strange reason he's the character I identify most with. (I'm a bit worried about what that might say about me...)
Post by: Yuuago on March 10, 2016, 11:33:28 AM
I'm very much looking forward to seeing more Emil! I wouldn't have expected it but for some strange reason he's the character I identify most with. (I'm a bit worried about what that might say about me...)
Yeeesss hopefully he'll get a chance to do something cool /crosses fingers (Though it might be more action than he'd want, hah.)
As for that - I identify with him a lot too. But, think of it this way - he has his problems (and personality flaws, boy does he ever) but on the upside, he seems to have a good heart. : ) So it isn't so much of a thing to worry about, necessarily.
Post by: tamaerchen on March 10, 2016, 11:43:03 AM
but on the upside, he seems to have a good heart. : )
Oh, yes, that's definitely it
On another note and to not go too far off topic: What do you think Reynir is doing right now? Is he still afraid that the ghosts will come back or is he too busy worshipping Onni? Is he so exhausted that he falls asleep immediately or is he afraid to go back right to the dreamspace after such a traumatic event? Or maybe he can't wait to go look for Lalli and Onni?
Post by: Yuuago on March 10, 2016, 11:47:31 AM
On another note and to not go too far off topic: What do you think Reynir is doing right now? Is he still afraid that the ghosts will come back or is he too busy worshipping Onni? Is he so exhausted that he falls asleep immediately or is he afraid to go back right to the dreamspace after such a traumatic event? Or maybe he can't wait to go look for Lalli and Onni?
Let's see... the last time we see Reynir is on P 482 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=482), and he seems to be awake/conscious/sufficiently upright that he wouldn't, like, collapse or anything.
Everything is happening REALLY quickly (re: the drive), so I'm not sure if he would have had time to actually do much. Poor kid's still probably processing everything. :Va
Post by: tamaerchen on March 10, 2016, 11:53:47 AM
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Shocked-Troy-Walks-Into-Fire-With-Pizza-Community.gif)
Post by: Kiraly on March 10, 2016, 11:54:22 AM
I'm very much looking forward to seeing more Emil! I wouldn't have expected it but for some strange reason he's the character I identify most with. (I'm a bit worried about what that might say about me...)
Haha...I know that feeling, except for me it's Tuuri. I identify with her pretty strongly, even (especially?) when she's being weasel-y. (I should be more concerned about that, probably, but I defy anyone to work a customer service job without developing an inner weasel).
Oh, yes, that's definitely itand not that I must have perfect hair at all times.:D
On another note and to not go too far off topic: What do you think Reynir is doing right now? Is he still afraid that the ghosts will come back or is he too busy worshipping Onni? Is he so exhausted that he falls asleep immediately or is he afraid to go back right to the dreamspace after such a traumatic event? Or maybe he can't wait to go look for Lalli and Onni?
I've been wondering what Reynir is doing too! I doubt he'd be asleep after all that, so I imagine him more curled into a ball shaking somewhere. I have a feeling when everyone calms down a little he's going to get yelled at, especially since he's (essentially) alone in the tank with a panicking Tuuri.
(Ahahaha that gif is perfect!)
Post by: tamaerchen on March 10, 2016, 12:01:40 PM
Haha...I know that feeling, except for me it's Tuuri. I identify with her pretty strongly, even (especially?) when she's being weasel-y.
I kind of expected to identify with Tuuri, being the enthusiastic, chubby skald/translator person but with her turning out to be pretty good at cheerful manipulation, that's over. :) (Also with Mikkel: I could never prank anyone, I'm far too worried about hurting anyone's feelings. Maybe I'm Reynir after all. :D)
Speaking of Reynir... Now I'm imagining him curled up and blaming himself and I just want to give him a hug. </3
Post by: Yuuago on March 10, 2016, 12:05:07 PM
Speaking of Reynir... Now I'm imagining him curled up and blaming himself and I just want to give him a hug. </3
...Now I can't unsee it, too.
To be honest he'd kind of slipped from my mind as soon as they started making the tank getaway. So now I'm really curious as to what state we'll actually find him in.
Post by: Yuuago on March 10, 2016, 02:34:30 PM
I never thought that "splurt" could be an ominous sound, but that is certainly ominous. Not to mention the way that sun is setting, yikes.
...And oh my gosh, that puffed-up purrito in panel 5! : D .... D:
Regarding the above discussion - looks like we might have to wait a while before we find out what's going on with Reynir. And Emil. (Well, perhaps we'll know tomorrow, for Emil.)
Post by: tamaerchen on March 10, 2016, 02:39:54 PM
If he's still awake, he might just poke his head put of the tank any minute now to see whether he can help - and probably right when Mikkeland Sigrunhit a live troll limb and Emil is torching everything
Post by: Kiraly on March 10, 2016, 03:37:47 PM
Also, the sun has been setting for weeks, how bad does it get when the night actually falls...?
I know, this must be the record for longest sunset ever! I really hope they get somewhere safe before it gets truly dark
Post by: Rabbit on March 10, 2016, 03:46:34 PM
I know, this must be the record for longest sunset ever! I really hope they get somewhere safe before it gets truly darkbut what fun would that be?
Even as far south as Copenhagen is compared to latitudes I'm familiar with, depending on the exact time of year everything after noon could qualify as "sunset" - up here in 60°N, full daylight isn't even a thing that happens in December, so Copenhagen being around 55°N I could easily give them 3-4 hours of "technically sunset" time before running into any sort of disbelief.
Post by: Yuuago on March 10, 2016, 03:51:39 PM
Even as far south as Copenhagen is compared to latitudes I'm familiar with, depending on the exact time of year everything after noon could qualify as "sunset" - up here in 60°N, full daylight isn't even a thing that happens in December, so Copenhagen being around 55°N I could easily give them 3-4 hours of "technically sunset" time before running into any sort of disbelief.
Exactly this. I'm at roughly the same latitude as Copenhagen, and very long sunsets during the cold month are definitely the norm. It starts setting really early, but it's quite a while before it's actually gone.
Post by: Kiraly on March 10, 2016, 04:09:25 PM
Even as far south as Copenhagen is compared to latitudes I'm familiar with, depending on the exact time of year everything after noon could qualify as "sunset" - up here in 60°N, full daylight isn't even a thing that happens in December, so Copenhagen being around 55°N I could easily give them 3-4 hours of "technically sunset" time before running into any sort of disbelief.
Exactly this. I'm at roughly the same latitude as Copenhagen, and very long sunsets during the cold month are definitely the norm. It starts setting really early, but it's quite a while before it's actually gone.
Oh, interesting! I hadn't realized that...our sunsets last maybe an hour most of the time, or so it seems. (My latitude is around 15 degrees south of Copenhagen, apparently.) Now I'm trying to remember how long the sunset lasted when I lived practically on the Equator for a year...all I'm coming up with was that sunset happened at the same time every day, can't remember how long it took to actually go down.
Post by: cati on March 10, 2016, 06:49:15 PM
Oh, interesting! I hadn't realized that...our sunsets last maybe an hour most of the time, or so it seems. (My latitude is around 15 degrees south of Copenhagen, apparently.) Now I'm trying to remember how long the sunset lasted when I lived practically on the Equator for a year...all I'm coming up with was that sunset happened at the same time every day, can't remember how long it took to actually go down.
About 20 minutes when I lived at 10° north, that's not really on the equator but short enough that sunrise/sets around Copenhagen (or, well, Edinburgh but practically the same) feel disconcertingly long to me.
Post by: Róisín on March 10, 2016, 07:41:33 PM
Whereas nearer the Poles, morning and evening twilights seem to go on forever, and have their own beauties. I used to love the slow changes in the sky and the light, and watching the swallows and bats change shifts.
Now I wonder what changes the Illness and its mutations have made to the crepuscular ecology of Year 90 Copenhagen?
Post by: Elleth on March 10, 2016, 08:01:58 PM
Even as far south as Copenhagen is compared to latitudes I'm familiar with, depending on the exact time of year everything after noon could qualify as "sunset" - up here in 60°N, full daylight isn't even a thing that happens in December, so Copenhagen being around 55°N I could easily give them 3-4 hours of "technically sunset" time before running into any sort of disbelief.
From 52°N, this sounds pretty accurate. The sun tends to be at the zenith almost exactly at noon, and then the afternoon feels like a pretty drawn-out sunset until sometime between 3:30 and 4pm when the sun actually sets, so I'd be surprised if it were much later than mid-afternoon on the current pages. I'm just... glad that the team are in this situation on a fairly clear day, not one with more rain, when they'd barely get any daylight at all.
ETA: Did anyone figure out where they are in Copenhagen? There was a bit of speculation in the comments, and I've pretty much discarded my idea that they are near the Lakes, and rather more in the harbour area, possibly headed back to Knippelsbro, and back to the beginning, to start over?
Post by: urbicande on March 10, 2016, 09:55:33 PM
Post by: Yuuago on March 11, 2016, 10:50:19 AM
It would be cool if we get another shot where we can see exactly where they are - maybe that'll happen before the end of chapter?
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on March 11, 2016, 12:54:02 PM
I think earlier on, somebody tried to map it (please tell me I was not imagining things).You are not (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=25.0).
Post by: Yuuago on March 11, 2016, 05:31:18 PM
Anyway...
P490 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=490)
Hi Sigrun, bye Sigrun (seriously though, given she's standing in the middle of it, looks like she could get knocked over and into the water in the next second! Though hopefully that won't happen).
I wonder what that thing even is. Giant, or a very (very) large Beast?
Post by: Róisín on March 11, 2016, 05:52:15 PM
Post by: |Yucca| on March 11, 2016, 05:56:31 PM
Hi Sigrun, bye Sigrun (seriously though, given she's standing in the middle of it, looks like she could get knocked over and into the water in the next second! Though hopefully that won't happen).
I had the same idea when I saw the page. Sigrun is also a perfect candidate for being thrown into water as her left arm is tied up (not very tightly but tied up nonetheless) and weakened from the attack earlier.
Post by: Yuuago on March 11, 2016, 05:58:21 PM
Giant, I think. Can't remember any animals that look like that. Except maybe squid, which aren't mammals so are immune.
Could be a whale. A whale with tentacles (hey, if the dog was secretly a spider-thing, then why not...). ;p But yeah, giant's probably the more likely explanation.
I had the same idea when I saw the page. Sigrun is also a perfect candidate for being thrown into water as her left arm is tied up (not very tightly but tied up nonetheless) and weakened from the attack earlier.
I didn't even consider that, but you're of course right. ...Is it terrible that I kind of want it to happen? : D
Post by: urbicande on March 11, 2016, 06:21:59 PM
Giant, I think. Can't remember any animals that look like that. Except maybe squid, which aren't mammals so are immune.
Probably a giant, although it COULD be a very weirdly shaped Beast. The info page (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=178) says that they often look like their former selves. But often and always are two very different things.
Post by: Hrollo on March 11, 2016, 06:50:58 PM
Post by: cati on March 11, 2016, 07:19:01 PM
Have to love Mikkel's "hands off" in the top panel. Poor guy, chopping into that is not what he thought he was doing.
Post by: Elleth on March 11, 2016, 08:53:58 PM
I didn't even consider that, but you're of course right. ...Is it terrible that I kind of want it to happen? : D
That makes two of us! Or three? I want something to happen, at any rate - Sigrun getting pulled into the water and needing rescuing would be really interesting (I didn't think I'd be saying that about a female character, ever, but then she's not your typical damsel), or perhaps Sigrun (and Emil?) pulling the Watcher's attention to themselves so the rest of the crew can escape? The cat-tank would be an easy snack, otherwise.
I'm excited! ;D
Post by: IKEA on March 11, 2016, 08:56:21 PM
Post by: Yuuago on March 11, 2016, 09:28:35 PM
That makes two of us! Or three? I want something to happen, at any rate - Sigrun getting pulled into the water and needing rescuing would be really interesting (I didn't think I'd be saying that about a female character, ever, but then she's not your typical damsel), or perhaps Sigrun (and Emil?) pulling the Watcher's attention to themselves so the rest of the crew can escape? The cat-tank would be an easy snack, otherwise.
I'm excited! ;D
Yessss exactly. I confess, I'm one of those people who loves seeing my faves get knocked around and injured and put in perilous situations and so on, and Sigrun's no exception. Hell, she's a troll hunter, it's just an occupational hazard, right? : D Though this is... a sliiiightly different situation than the usual, I think. As far as rescues go, well - I expect that everyone will get their turn at needing help at some point or other, so it's probably just a matter of time. ;p
The "drawing attention in order for the rest to escape" idea would be really interesting. Must confess, I like the idea of Sigrun and/or Emil doing that. ...Though in this particular situation that we currently have, they would probably be dead. So dead. Probably. It's such an amazing mess. : D
I'm waiting for two things: Emil to flamethrower something and Lalli to use that sniper rifle he totes around. With this comic (490, for future reference) I doubt either of them are very far off.
+1 to both. Flamethrower action is probably coming up sometime soon. But Lalli is still incapacitated, so we'll probably have to wait longer for that.
Post by: Lazy8 on March 11, 2016, 09:35:35 PM
That makes two of us! Or three? I want something to happen, at any rate - Sigrun getting pulled into the water and needing rescuing would be really interesting (I didn't think I'd be saying that about a female character, ever, but then she's not your typical damsel), or perhaps Sigrun (and Emil?) pulling the Watcher's attention to themselves so the rest of the crew can escape? The cat-tank would be an easy snack, otherwise.
I'm excited! ;D
Normally I wouldn't, but... yeah. Plus she's already saved Emil's butt, and Reynir's, so it's not like it would be completely unfair. Though I'd like to see her at least make it back out of the water on her own before collapsing from exhaustion/cold/injury.
Yessss exactly. I confess, I'm one of those people who loves seeing my faves get knocked around and injured and put in perilous situations and so on, and Sigrun's no exception. Hell, she's a troll hunter, it's just an occupational hazard, right? : D Though this is... a sliiiightly different situation than the usual, I think. As far as rescues go, well - I expect that everyone will get their turn at needing help at some point or other, so it's probably just a matter of time. ;p
The "drawing attention in order for the rest to escape" idea would be really interesting. Must confess, I like the idea of Sigrun and/or Emil doing that. ...Though in this particular situation that we currently have, they would probably be dead. So dead. Probably. It's such an amazing mess. : D
+1 to both. Flamethrower action is probably coming up sometime soon. But Lalli is still incapacitated, so we'll probably have to wait longer for that.
...I am not the only one who is so, so horrible to my favorite characters. And yeah, I think a flamethrower is the only way to deal with this situation.
Post by: Kiraly on March 11, 2016, 09:46:35 PM
I'm waiting for two things: Emil to flamethrower something and Lalli to use that sniper rifle he totes around. With this comic (490, for future reference) I doubt either of them are very far off.
Haha, yeah...at this point I feel like it's Chekhov's flamethrower, since Minna mentioned it in the comments a few days ago. He HAS to use it soon!
Post by: Yuuago on March 11, 2016, 09:49:24 PM
...I am not the only one who is so, so horrible to my favorite characters.
You are totally not the only one. 8 ) Most definitely not.
Haha, yeah...at this point I feel like it's Chekhov's flamethrower, since Minna mentioned it in the comments a few days ago. He HAS to use it soon!
Exactly! It's there, it was mentioned specifically, it has to come soon.
...And I really, really want to see what he can do with that thing. It looks so tiny, hardly looks like it could do any damage at all, especially in this situation. But it would be useful to be sure
Post by: Laufey on March 12, 2016, 01:49:02 AM
- Lalli still unconscious
- Reynir who probably's still traumatized by the ghost attack and as a non-immune civilian he's not topping any list of rescue capability
- Sigrun in the worst possible spot of them all
- Mikkel not in much better spot
That leaves exactly Tuuri and Emil who might be able to do something to help. One of them has that Chekhov's flamethrower. I can't wait for the next week. :D
Post by: shoop on March 12, 2016, 02:02:25 AM
really,
really want Tuuri to ram the troll with the tank.
Post by: Yuuago on March 12, 2016, 02:04:49 AM
As much as I really, really want Emil to use that flamethrower (please my son go and wreak the destruction you were meant to do) I also,
really,
really want Tuuri to ram the troll with the tank.
Why not both? ;p
Though given the size and the way the thing is flailing around, I'm thinking it might be capable of doing some pretty serious damage to that tank.
Post by: tamaerchen on March 12, 2016, 02:05:47 AM
Post by: Laufey on March 12, 2016, 02:08:45 AM
Why not both? Have Emil blasting the flamethrower while hanging onto the side of the charging tank - Mad Max: Silent World. :D
I... I really like the way you think!
Post by: Pupunen on March 12, 2016, 06:31:29 AM
Post by: Kiraly on March 12, 2016, 08:18:34 AM
Why not both? Have Emil blasting the flamethrower while hanging onto the side of the charging tank - Mad Max: Silent World. :D
YESSSSS! (I...really want someone to make art of this now...)
Post by: Lazy8 on March 12, 2016, 10:14:06 AM
Why not both? Have Emil blasting the flamethrower while hanging onto the side of the charging tank - Mad Max: Silent World. :D
YESSSSS! (I...really want someone to make art of this now...)
...
Yes please!
(Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy can't I draw?)
Post by: JoB on March 12, 2016, 12:42:37 PM
Post by: tamaerchen on March 12, 2016, 04:51:44 PM
... so I'm the only one who, in the interest of the expedition's well-being, hopes that Emils flame-thrower gets jammed before he blasts a wet giant and a couple people in bone-dry clothing with it? ???The solution: Sigrun and Mikkel both fall into the water before Emil blasts the giant. ;)
Post by: tamaerchen on March 13, 2016, 04:36:06 AM
Why not both? Have Emil blasting the flamethrower while hanging onto the side of the charging tank - Mad Max: Silent World. :D
YESSSSS! (I...really want someone to make art of this now...)
Yes please!
(Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy can't I draw?)
Okay, here we go:
(https://56.media.tumblr.com/30da9635214d88f042e60aa4c7a581c2/tumblr_o3yy6tecru1rde9wgo2_540.jpg)
Elleth pointed out that there is a gun on the roof and Sigrun should be manning it. (She jumped off a tentacle or something to get there, don’t question the Sgru.)
And then Elleth did something even more amazing and coloured the thing!! Feast your eyes on this glory (and Emil's hair):
(https://56.media.tumblr.com/36b4fcd219dcb4cc7d7fc5da36c3f7fd/tumblr_o3yy6tecru1rde9wgo1_540.png)
Enjoy! :D
Post by: Q on March 13, 2016, 11:26:48 AM
Post by: JoB on March 13, 2016, 11:55:10 AM
Elleth pointed out that there is a gun on the roof(No, there ain't. The black rod occasionally poking out is the aerial on top of the folding antenna mast (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=279).)
Post by: Yuuago on March 13, 2016, 10:03:03 PM
Nope nope nope nope with extra nope on top. D: That author's note good lord (though I'm sure it's just meant facetiously. Probably.)
...On a less 'nope' note, loving Sigrun in the lower left panel.
Post by: Keeper on March 13, 2016, 10:06:39 PM
Post by: IKEA on March 13, 2016, 10:10:12 PM
Of course, now both Emil and Lalli get a chance to show off their marksmanship.
Post by: Elleth on March 13, 2016, 10:12:03 PM
Post by: cati on March 13, 2016, 10:12:58 PM
It is exciting though! Nice knife!
Post by: Piney on March 13, 2016, 10:21:22 PM
Post by: shoop on March 13, 2016, 10:28:09 PM
Her face in the second-to-last panel made me laugh, though, it just looks like she's thinking "Oh, right, ok, I'm over here now".
Post by: Elleth on March 13, 2016, 10:38:48 PM
Post by: Dverghamrar on March 13, 2016, 10:45:31 PM
Nope nope nope, I refuse, that note is not a literal thing and tomorrow we'll find out that Sgru is secretly a rodeo champion.That would be so, so epic to see! :D
Her face in the second-to-last panel made me laugh, though, it just looks like she's thinking "Oh, right, ok, I'm over here now".Me too! :) It also strikes me as "Oh, she's got this. She's seeing what's happening and she'll think of a plan." Although poor Sigrun, first her arm and now this!
I couldn't help but notice the parallel between this and her ancestor Aksel on page 7 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=7) when the sea engulfed him.
Post by: viola on March 13, 2016, 10:46:51 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 13, 2016, 10:58:10 PM
/>
(I'm sure she'll be just fine)
Post by: Kiraly on March 13, 2016, 10:58:45 PM
Guyssssssssss it's like the womping willow
Oh my gosh it is! I nominate this as the new troll's nickname.
I couldn't help but notice the parallel between this and her ancestor Aksel on page 7 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=7) when the sea engulfed him.
I love how many things from the prologue have parallels in the later parts of the comic!
Post by: Trinka on March 14, 2016, 01:49:12 AM
She is not having a very good day, I think we are going to get a good chance to see the crew working together to get her out of this totally aweful predicament!
Post by: Puls3 on March 14, 2016, 02:18:18 AM
Her face in the second-to-last panel made me laugh, though, it just looks like she's thinking "Oh, right, ok, I'm over here now".
Yes! She has that "did I leave the stove on?" look, but she still seem to be somewhat calm and collected.
Maybe now that Sigrun is busy surviving, we might see some flamethrower action with Emil as he saves the day.
Or we will just see him dragged down bellow the surface before he realises what is going on and it will all be up to poor Turri to save every one .
Post by: Laufey on March 14, 2016, 03:44:39 AM
I'm hoping for a possible change of role - Sigrun is the one saved instead of the one doing the saving.
Hahahah I'm still reeling from today's page but this is exactly what immediately crossed my mind: Emil to the rescue maybe? I want to see Emil's capable side again, it was quite a surprise back when when he very matter-of-factly exploded ceiling pug, besides yes it's time for the flame thrower...
EDITing to add: ok I tried to keep my cool but let's just say I'm not ok about today's page. NONONONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOO
Post by: urbicande on March 14, 2016, 09:16:21 AM
Post by: Kiraly on March 14, 2016, 10:38:35 AM
ok I tried to keep my cool but let's just say I'm not ok about today's page. NONONONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOO
*hugs* There's plenty more space in the blanket fort if you need it. We have hot cocoa and cookies and flamethrowers.
but that cruel brand of humour in author's notes, whyyyyy. I was prepared for whomping willows but not that.
Minna's comment is the true whomping willow in this scenario.
Post by: Pupunen on March 14, 2016, 11:02:50 AM
Post by: Róisín on March 14, 2016, 11:11:07 AM
Post by: Pupunen on March 14, 2016, 11:14:17 AM
Funny, I always thought of Sigrun as having elements of Little My. Maybe it's the sharpness of the features and the expression of manic glee.And the sweet and gentle personality they both have. :D
Post by: urbicande on March 14, 2016, 11:42:08 AM
Funny, I always thought of Sigrun as having elements of Little My. Maybe it's the sharpness of the features and the expression of manic glee.
Ask and ye shall receive (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=35.msg97864#msg97864).
Post by: Róisín on March 14, 2016, 12:31:05 PM
Post by: Yuuago on March 15, 2016, 12:20:55 AM
Well, she's still in one piece... so far. ;p
Hmmm those underwater creepies look awfully foreboding!
(And mannn do I ever lover her hair on this page. And the water. And, like. Everything?)
Post by: cati on March 15, 2016, 12:25:25 AM
Progressively more and more amused by Mikkel's crisis faces too (and wondering what he's seeing going on up there right now, & hoping to check in with Emil soon and the other above-surface folks).
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 15, 2016, 12:35:34 AM
Post by: Buteo on March 15, 2016, 01:02:12 AM
Looking again, I can see the space between two cars near the right end of the panel.
Post by: Kiraly on March 15, 2016, 01:07:21 AM
(And mannn do I ever lover her hair on this page. And the water. And, like. Everything?)
I'm mega jealous that Sigrun's hair looks that good when it's wet...when my hair is wet, I look like a drowned rat.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 15, 2016, 02:39:46 AM
It has been suggested in the comments that this is a flooded railroad cut, and this is a rail car that Cthulhu is ensconced in.
Looking again, I can see the space between two cars near the right end of the panel.
Ah! Now it makes sense!
Post by: Elleth on March 15, 2016, 10:25:38 PM
I won't even start guessing what's happening next, but such a beautiful page today... Sigrun in freezing water with an underwater train giant, but the colours and the whole composition are calmingly beautiful. (I didn't doubt that she can swim, but that's not to say I'm not concerned.)
I like how the chapters have different colour schemes, and I often remember them by colours - it does change in the middle of ch. 10, but then again it was going to be two chapters originally. Was this really the "Mikkel, Reynir and Tuuri go adventuring, yay" chapter? That feels like ages ago!
It really was that chapter! And from the crew's perspective, that only was a few hours ago... augh. That said, I'm concerned as well. I know Minna won't kill off the characters, but looking up hypothermia and cold shock (due to sudden immersion in cold water) on wikipedia was not a good idea and did not help calm me at all. Short of an anti-climatic narrow escape I can't see how they're going to solve this one.
Quote
Hypothermia from exposure to cold water is not as sudden as is often believed. A person who survives the initial minute of trauma (after falling into icy water), can survive for at least thirty minutes provided they don't drown. However, the ability to perform useful work (for example to save oneself) declines substantially after ten minutes (as the body protectively cuts off blood flow to "non-essential" muscles).
Those "non-essential" muscles being mostly in the extremeties. And Sigrun's got a giant on her hands... and when she's survived that and Tuuri drives away, there's still the weather to deal with. (Is that where Emil's flame-thrower comes in? Making a fire so Sigrun doesn't freeze?)
Post by: Puls3 on March 16, 2016, 01:02:29 AM
The dark blobb ever so slightly breaking the surface seem creepy enough to make Sigrun wanting to get away as fast as possible. But will she manage to grab the rope and escape, leaving us with only a glimpse of the underwater troll/Cthulhu/Kraken as it furiously thrashes about or will there be an epic underwater boss fight?
What we do know is that her hair looks awesome in this page ;D despite the burden it must be in cold temperatures and all.
Post by: Pupunen on March 16, 2016, 04:53:24 AM
Post by: urbicande on March 16, 2016, 02:39:58 PM
The dark blobb ever so slightly breaking the surface seem creepy enough to make Sigrun wanting to get away as fast as possible. But will she manage to grab the rope and escape, leaving us with only a glimpse of the underwater troll/Cthulhu/Kraken as it furiously thrashes about or will there be an epic underwater boss fight?
We saw this in Star Wars (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dianoga)!
Post by: Tentaclekitten on March 16, 2016, 03:43:46 PM
Post by: Yuuago on March 16, 2016, 03:45:39 PM
I can't wait for the next pageeeeee, so excited! Can Sigrun even climb the robe with her injured arm, or will she just have to hold on while Mikkel pulls her out? And that's not even taking into consideration interruptions from trolls, giants or whatever beastie lurks there XD
That's a good question. I'm not sure she'd be able to hang on there.... Depending on how quickly the monster attacks (because surely it will) we might not end up finding out. :V
Post by: Tentaclekitten on March 16, 2016, 04:05:05 PM
That's a good question. I'm not sure she'd be able to hang on there.... Depending on how quickly the monster attacks (because surely it will) we might not end up finding out. :V
Sigrun is strong, I'm sure if she just has to hold on while Mikkel pulls, she can do that with her right arm... climbing would require both arms, and I'm sure swimming already broke the stitches in her left arm open. She hasn't been resting that arm properly at all... wasn't there blood on the bandages earlier already?
Maybe the troll (or whatever) will attack the people above and distract Mikkel... then Sigrun might have to try climbing anyway. Because staying down there is veeeeery much not an option.
Huh, I wonder what that thing that only surfaced for a moment was... aren't trolls and giants sensitive to cold? They need nests and sleep during the day, right? So isn't that underwater thing more likely to be a beast, since beasts are able to stand the cold? I would think the water is too icy cold for trolls... though perhaps that's why parts of that big thing seemed dead, maybe it's big enough that only parts die from the cold.
Post by: urbicande on March 16, 2016, 04:40:29 PM
Huh, I wonder what that thing that only surfaced for a moment was... aren't trolls and giants sensitive to cold? They need nests and sleep during the day, right? So isn't that underwater thing more likely to be a beast, since beasts are able to stand the cold? I would think the water is too icy cold for trolls... though perhaps that's why parts of that big thing seemed dead, maybe it's big enough that only parts die from the cold.
Sensitive, sure, but someone's been chopping at this thing with an axe!
Post by: Rabbit on March 16, 2016, 05:24:42 PM
Huh, I wonder what that thing that only surfaced for a moment was... aren't trolls and giants sensitive to cold? They need nests and sleep during the day, right? So isn't that underwater thing more likely to be a beast, since beasts are able to stand the cold? I would think the water is too icy cold for trolls... though perhaps that's why parts of that big thing seemed dead, maybe it's big enough that only parts die from the cold.
Maybe the only reason not just Sigrun but the whole team is even still alive is that the giant just got rudely woken up from hibernation and is still groggy...
Post by: Puls3 on March 16, 2016, 06:05:45 PM
We saw this in Star Wars (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dianoga)!Charming little creature.. *shudders*
Post by: Tentaclekitten on March 16, 2016, 06:18:46 PM
Has it been stated at what temperature trolls die of exposure? In an earlier info page it said cleaners blow up buildings to destroy nests, then let "the harsh grip of winter" kill the trolls, and kill any that survived underground in spring. Well, and water leeches heat much faster than air - so it would stand to reason that trolls wouldn't be able to live in cold water, right? But there are animals adapted to living in water, that don't lose bodyheat to it, so if those turned to beasts, they would likely be able to survive in cold water.
Though that would depend on HOW cold it has to be before trolls die... and for giants, there might still be the option that only the outer layers die, which would fit with Mikkel hacking away at that tentacle for a while before it went SPLURT - outer layers dead, inner parts still full of juice.
Post by: |Yucca| on March 16, 2016, 06:43:13 PM
Those "non-essential" muscles being mostly in the extremeties. And Sigrun's got a giant on her hands... and when she's survived that and Tuuri drives away, there's still the weather to deal with. (Is that where Emil's flame-thrower comes in? Making a fire so Sigrun doesn't freeze?)
10 minutes in the freezing water and you're still pretty okay, that's true. But the most dangerous part begins after you're up from there. Once you get up and start to warm up again, the shaking, oh my, it never stops. At the beginning it's so bad actually that even putting on dry clothing provides a great challenge, let alone trying to do anything that requires closer coordination than that. Your limbs are also so numb that you can as well go ahead and stab yourself and not feel a thing.
Let's hope Sigrun doesn't have to do anything requiring precise coordination when she is finally out of the water.
Post by: Lazy8 on March 16, 2016, 09:48:07 PM
I can't wait for the next pageeeeee, so excited! Can Sigrun even climb the robe with her injured arm, or will she just have to hold on while Mikkel pulls her out? And that's not even taking into consideration interruptions from trolls, giants or whatever beastie lurks there XD
I'm honestly less worried about the obstacles presented by her injury than those presented by hypothermia - I'm hardly an expert on this, but I'd think that if she starts losing sensation in her extremities or starts shaking because of the cold, then that's going to make climbing or even simple holding on far harder than those wounds will.
Post by: urbicande on March 16, 2016, 10:15:34 PM
Has it been stated at what temperature trolls die of exposure? In an earlier info page it said cleaners blow up buildings to destroy nests, then let "the harsh grip of winter" kill the trolls, and kill any that survived underground in spring. Well, and water leeches heat much faster than air - so it would stand to reason that trolls wouldn't be able to live in cold water, right? But there are animals adapted to living in water, that don't lose bodyheat to it, so if those turned to beasts, they would likely be able to survive in cold water.
This could be a beast rather than a troll, so we don't know.
Post by: Róisín on March 16, 2016, 11:39:10 PM
Downside for Sigrun is that she is heavily dressed and her wet clothing is likely to pull her down, if the monster doesn't drag her under first. And she hasn't a lifejacket or any sort of flotation device, so if she stops actively moving she is likely to slip under the water, and once under it's all too easy to drown, because the cold saps concentration and energy quite quickly, and can interfere with the breathing reflexes. Pain from her injured arm, perhaps loss of a bit of strength from the injury and whatever the ghost did to her may weaken her further.
In her situation, she needs to grab that rope and fasten it to her person. If her hands are already past tying a knot, which may be the case by now, wrapping it several times around her arm or body and tucking the end under the coils may help. Yes, if Mikkel has to haul her out without any holding on on her part she may wind up with bruised or cracked ribs, or a dislocated shoulder, but that is better than dead. Ideally, making a loop and getting her foot into it, then holding on and using the wall to take part of her weight would work best. All depends on what the thing in the water does, of course, and how conscious or injured she is while being hauled out.
Post by: Laufey on March 17, 2016, 03:41:29 AM
The cold might even work in her favour where the injured arm is concerned though, because it numbs you. It won't stop her from injuring herself worse in process but at least she wouldn't feel it just yet. Good thing she's immune because open cuts and swimming in troll water sounds like a bad combo.
Post by: Laufey on March 17, 2016, 06:32:30 AM
NO NO NO NO NO PLEASE NO
I... most of all I hate the look of "welp guess that was it" on Sigrun's face. I'm not ok. :'(
Post by: Róisín on March 17, 2016, 06:40:57 AM
Post by: SectoBoss on March 17, 2016, 06:42:36 AM
Double posting like a moron but:
NO NO NO NO NO PLEASE NO
I... most of all I hate the look of "welp guess that was it" on Sigrun's face. I'm not ok. :'(
I guess she must have privately made her peace with this sort of thing a long time ago. Makes you wonder how many times she's been on the other end of that rope.
Post by: Laufey on March 17, 2016, 07:03:06 AM
*patpats Laufey and offers a comforting hug* don't despair, mate, I think Sigrun is tough and lucky. She may yet survive. I don't like that look either, but haven't quite given up on her yet!
This makes me feel a bit better. However -
I guess she must have privately made her peace with this sort of thing a long time ago. Makes you wonder how many times she's been on the other end of that rope.
THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME FEEL BETTER. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy... :'(
Post by: Róisín on March 17, 2016, 07:14:58 AM
I'm reminded of that William Butler Yeats poem about the pilot foreseeing his end:
'I balanced all, brought all to mind.
The years to come seemed waste of breath.
A waste of breath the years behind.
In balance with this life, this death.'
Post by: Tentaclekitten on March 17, 2016, 07:16:24 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 17, 2016, 07:23:42 AM
Post by: viola on March 17, 2016, 07:27:15 AM
I believe there is some kind of blanket fort around here. Could I please get some directions? :(
Pillow fort at your service!
Directions: https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=51.0
Post by: chaelcodes on March 17, 2016, 08:04:13 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on March 17, 2016, 08:31:00 AM
I guess she must have privately made her peace with this sort of thing a long time ago. Makes you wonder how many times she's been on the other end of that rope.
I think anybody who does what Sigrun does would have to have long since sorted her head on the subject of death. In her situation there is always the need to balance resignation to one's fate against the need to fight to the last breath. One can't give up too soon, and miracles have been known to happen. I can see Sigrun fighting to the end and then some, but taking it as her fate when something finally does get her.
And you two just summed up some thoughts I've had on Sigrun for a long time now. I can't even make an intelligent response at this point. I actually teared up a bit at that look on her face.
Post by: Helia on March 17, 2016, 08:36:38 AM
And... I think I have to make a confession... I never ever intended to develop a girl crush on Sigrun, but... uh... it happened. Oh well. ::)
Post by: urbicande on March 17, 2016, 09:05:22 AM
I believe Sigrun will be okay. I believe we're about to see her full abilities. The Norwegians hunt sea beasts and giants. Sigrun is a Captain. Normally, she stays out of trouble, and uses the environment and her people to their full effectiveness. Trapped in a canal with a giant is the only way to see what Sigrun and a knife are capable of.
I kind of feel sorry for the troll or beast or giant, whatever it is.
Post by: SectoBoss on March 17, 2016, 09:23:46 AM
I'm sure Sigrun will survive this encouner and hopefully in one piece, but I can't pretend that her scared and sad face doesen't make me worried like hell.I too am 100% certain she'll make it - I don't think SSSS is that kind of story - and I think we should take a moment to consider Minna's talent for making us all crack up like this even when we know deep down she's going to be fine!
And... I think I have to make a confession... I never ever intended to develop a girl crush on Sigrun, but... uh... it happened. Oh well. ::)
And I have it on good authority that developing a girl crush on Sigrun is not uncommon.
I kind of feel sorry for the troll or beast or giant, whatever it is.We should always feel sorry for the infected! 'A fate worse than death' doesn't begin to cover what's happened to them.
(I wonder if there's some small, trapped part of the creature's mind begging her to climb faster even as it lunges towards her)
Post by: Róisín on March 17, 2016, 09:36:09 AM
And I think/hope Sigrun will survive, but I doubt she'll do it without taking further damage..
Post by: Kiraly on March 17, 2016, 09:38:44 AM
And... I think I have to make a confession... I never ever intended to develop a girl crush on Sigrun, but... uh... it happened. Oh well. ::)
Yeah...same. It's not our fault, there's no resisting the most best captain!
Post by: SectoBoss on March 17, 2016, 09:47:29 AM
Yeah, I've often thought how it must be for trolls and beasts, with the little fragment of themselves still screaming in the back of the mind. Like the voices on the radio, or the dogbeast when the sunlight hit its eyes, or that poor girl on the train. For that matter, I liked your take on it in that Frisbee fic you did - the confused dog rousing to fight back whatever makes it a beast.
And I think/hope Sigrun will survive, but I doubt she'll do it without taking further damage..
Between hypothermia, her stitches opening back up in water that might be quite dirty (on a side note, I wonder how many pollutants will have leached into it as the city around decays), and the obvious troll attack I completely agree. She'll probably be out of action for a while after this. I wonder if Minna's setting up a time skip while the expedition's stalled for a day or two for her to recover?
And thank you!
Post by: Hrollo on March 17, 2016, 09:47:29 AM
Post by: Yuuago on March 17, 2016, 09:52:28 AM
I think everyone else covered the details more intelligently so I'm just going to sit here and scream internally, really. Her face--!
Well if I remember it's been a while since anyone in the comic fell into the water, I guess Sigrun will have to make up for it by falling in several times in the same scene.
Minna really has a thing for dumping her heroes in the water, doesn't she. ;p Yes indeed it was about time.
Post by: Vafhudr on March 17, 2016, 01:28:51 PM
Post by: urbicande on March 17, 2016, 02:15:06 PM
Yeah, I've often thought how it must be for trolls and beasts, with the little fragment of themselves still screaming in the back of the mind. Like the voices on the radio, or the dogbeast when the sunlight hit its eyes, or that poor girl on the train. For that matter, I liked your take on it in that Frisbee fic you did - the confused dog rousing to fight back whatever makes it a beast.
And I think/hope Sigrun will survive, but I doubt she'll do it without taking further damage..
Well, yes, I mean, I'm sorry for the Infected in a general sense, but now it's up against Sigrun the Most Best Warrior.
Post by: SectoBoss on March 17, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
Well, yes, I mean, I'm sorry for the Infected in a general sense, but now it's up against Sigrun the Most Best Warrior.
You know, considering the beating she's taken lately I wouldn't be surprised if we something unheard of in the next few pages - Sigrun meeting her match.
(In this vein I've been hoping for a while that the crew encounters an oddly persistent, intelligent troll that harries them through the city - a sort of recurring villain, if you will - and slowly becomes Sigrun's nemesis)
Post by: Fen Shen on March 17, 2016, 03:32:53 PM
One of my first thoughts when I saw the dangling rope was that she must have let go by herself when the thing attacked in order to not drag Mikkel into the water.
Post by: Lazy8 on March 17, 2016, 05:52:21 PM
You know, considering the beating she's taken lately I wouldn't be surprised if we something unheard of in the next few pages - Sigrun meeting her match.
(In this vein I've been hoping for a while that the crew encounters an oddly persistent, intelligent troll that harries them through the city - a sort of recurring villain, if you will - and slowly becomes Sigrun's nemesis)
The thing is, everything we've seen of Sigrun says so far that she knows when she's not a match for something, and has the sense to back out (troll nest on their first mission, for one). Which was what she was trying to do here, except that she no longer has anywhere to go.
Which is why they sent in a team of people with different skillsets. ...Emil can get his butt over here with that flamethrower any day now.
I like the idea of them being pursued by an unusually intelligent troll. As a matter of fact someone's been writing a fic with exactly that idea (only Emil is the one it's pursuing).
Post by: Róisín on March 17, 2016, 06:07:09 PM
Post by: SectoBoss on March 17, 2016, 07:23:10 PM
I like the idea of them being pursued by an unusually intelligent troll. As a matter of fact someone's been writing a fic with exactly that idea (only Emil is the one it's pursuing).Oh? Who? (or does that mean it's you?)
It would be interesting to see how each of you handles that theme.Well my idea was Sigrun coming across a troll-ified infant on a nondescript book salvaging run and giving it a mercy kill. Turns out that the baby's mother was also mutated and has been keeping a half-crazed vigil over her child (but had left to find food or somesuch when the crew turned up) for 90 long years. Naturally she's distraught, and sets off after the crew in pursuit of revenge. Quite possibly the crew would have no idea why this one troll, posessed of unusual intelligence, speed and tactics, is stalking them across the ruins, Sigrun not even remembering just another grossling she put down.
Post by: Lazy8 on March 17, 2016, 08:25:29 PM
Oh? Who? (or does that mean it's you?)
No, it's not one of mine. I forget who the author is, but it's called "Hypothermia" and it's posted over on AO3.
Well my idea was Sigrun coming across a troll-ified infant on a nondescript book salvaging run and giving it a mercy kill. Turns out that the baby's mother was also mutated and has been keeping a half-crazed vigil over her child (but had left to find food or somesuch when the crew turned up) for 90 long years. Naturally she's distraught, and sets off after the crew in pursuit of revenge. Quite possibly the crew would have no idea why this one troll, posessed of unusual intelligence, speed and tactics, is stalking them across the ruins, Sigrun not even remembering just another grossling she put down.
I would be all over reading that!
Post by: Róisín on March 17, 2016, 09:35:16 PM
Post by: urbicande on March 18, 2016, 10:19:10 AM
Oh? Who? (or does that mean it's you?)
Well my idea was Sigrun coming across a troll-ified infant on a nondescript book salvaging run and giving it a mercy kill. Turns out that the baby's mother was also mutated and has been keeping a half-crazed vigil over her child (but had left to find food or somesuch when the crew turned up) for 90 long years. Naturally she's distraught, and sets off after the crew in pursuit of revenge. Quite possibly the crew would have no idea why this one troll, posessed of unusual intelligence, speed and tactics, is stalking them across the ruins, Sigrun not even remembering just another grossling she put down.
That's an interesting take on things. There have to be at least some situations where the parent and child both caught the Illness and were trollified rather than one or both dying.
Post by: TicTac on March 18, 2016, 04:59:13 PM
Post by: Pupunen on March 18, 2016, 06:00:37 PM
I would read that. Now I'm just imagining cases where entire families got wiped out, and stuck together in a group after becoming trolls. Maybe they don't even know why, they just do.Do you mean that they literally stuck together and became giants? :D
Post by: Yuuago on March 18, 2016, 08:25:03 PM
Quote
Sorry guys, this week is going to end with both Sigrun and Emil in peril. Enjoy the weekend!
On the one hand: AAAAAH!!
On the other hand: the phrase 'Emil in peril' is music to my ears. *_* Somebody pass the popcorn, please.
Also: Good gods are those leggy trolls ever creepy. C-r-e-e-p-y. Eugh....
Also-also, the mention that the second printing has been shipped off to Hiveworks is great news! I already have my copy, but hopefully those who missed out will be able to get one this time around.
Post by: Puls3 on March 19, 2016, 01:52:52 AM
On the other hand: the phrase 'Emil in peril' is music to my ears. *_* Somebody pass the popcorn, please.Agreed, can't help but smile whenever I realise that Emil is in trouble. >:D
Also: Good gods are those leggy trolls ever creepy. C-r-e-e-p-y. Eugh....
But I do wonder how this fight is gonna go down though. They seem to be quite vulnerable with their brain encased in what seems to be transparent jelly. So in order to compensate for bad defense, they might either have telepathic powers like the ghosts or they are really good at kicking which wouldn't really be too effective.
Post by: SectoBoss on March 19, 2016, 04:07:05 AM
But I do wonder how this fight is gonna go down though. They seem to be quite vulnerable with their brain encased in what seems to be transparent jelly. So in order to compensate for bad defense, they might either have telepathic powers like the ghosts or they are really good at kicking which wouldn't really be too effective.
For some reason the idea of a troll that's "really good at kicking" cracks me up. I think it's becaue I'm imagining the things going all Bruce Lee on poor Emil ;D
Post by: Mélusine on March 19, 2016, 06:55:12 AM
- Trolls
- More trolls
- Troubles
- Maybe panic (Yes Emil, don't pretend it couldn't happen.)
- Chaos
- No mage capable to do something useful
It will be... interesting.
Post by: Helia on March 19, 2016, 07:52:38 AM
- Maybe panic
Maybe? We're talking about Emil :P
I also predict a ruined hairdo...
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 19, 2016, 08:35:01 AM
I also predict a ruined hairdo...
Nah, he'll just sweep it back into place and with a few sparkles it'll all fall back into perfection!
Post by: Tentaclekitten on March 19, 2016, 09:11:17 AM
... seriously, the only way for them to be in even more trouble would be if those ghosts catch up. Trouble in all directions, all night long~
Post by: Mélusine on March 19, 2016, 09:41:39 AM
Maybe? We're talking about Emil :PTo be honest, I'm pretty sure it won't be a "maybe", but every time I assume something, Minna successes in surprising me, so... :D
I also predict a ruined hairdo...
(Good prediction indeed.)
Post by: Yuuago on March 19, 2016, 12:21:16 PM
So, next week program looks like :
- Trolls
- More trolls
- Troubles
- Maybe panic (Yes Emil, don't pretend it couldn't happen.)
- Chaos
- No mage capable to do something useful
It will be... interesting.
I'd say probably definitely panic. : D I can hardly wait! (...Then again, maybe we'll be surprised.) And lots of chaos, yes.
... seriously, the only way for them to be in even more trouble would be if those ghosts catch up. Trouble in all directions, all night long~
D: Oh no. D: D: D: Don't even suggest it, that would be HORRIBLE!
Post by: SectoBoss on March 19, 2016, 12:28:45 PM
D: Oh no. D: D: D: Don't even suggest it, that would be HORRIBLE!
The best we can hope for if that happens is the ghosts fight the trolls for first dibs and the crew manages to sneak away.
Post by: Mélusine on March 19, 2016, 12:30:08 PM
D: Oh no. D: D: D: Don't even suggest it, that would be HORRIBLE!Okay, I missed that, where is the blanket fort, again ?
Post by: cati on March 19, 2016, 12:45:22 PM
I also predict a ruined hairdo...
Maybe it's like those tree species that depend on occasional wildfires to release seeds, he depends on proximity to flamethrower to produce sparkles.
I like seeing the comparisons here between his current fighting style - that "...Shoo?", but he didn't exactly waste any time starting up the flamethrower - compared to Sigrun's (and also, Mikkel's handling-self-in-a-crisis).
Post by: Tentaclekitten on March 19, 2016, 02:32:21 PM
The best we can hope for if that happens is the ghosts fight the trolls for first dibs and the crew manages to sneak away.
Considering that the very first thing we saw the ghosts do (besides hang around in windows and look creepy) was killing a troll, that might be more likely than we think - even if the ghosts hate everything and/or want to suck the life out of everything, they probably hate trolls more than humans. Though maybe human life is tastier...
Post by: Elleth on March 19, 2016, 03:31:47 PM
Considering that the very first thing we saw the ghosts do (besides hang around in windows and look creepy) was killing a troll, that might be more likely than we think - even if the ghosts hate everything and/or want to suck the life out of everything, they probably hate trolls more than humans. Though maybe human life is tastier...
But it seems that sucking the life out of either makes the ghosts grow stronger, so even if they did away with the Jelly Blorps the crew would still be very much in trouble. Probably in worse trouble than from the Jelly Blorps alone.
Post by: Tentaclekitten on March 19, 2016, 03:38:28 PM
But it seems that sucking the life out of either makes the ghosts grow stronger, so even if they did away with the Jelly Blorps the crew would still be very much in trouble. Probably in worse trouble than from the Jelly Blorps alone.
I don't know, might give them time enough to drive away... though I guess it would be more useful if the ghosts ate whatever giant water thing is giving Sigrun and Mikkel trouble than if they chewed on the leg-brain troll thingies XD
Post by: urbicande on March 19, 2016, 07:14:40 PM
But it seems that sucking the life out of either makes the ghosts grow stronger, so even if they did away with the Jelly Blorps the crew would still be very much in trouble. Probably in worse trouble than from the Jelly Blorps alone.
Jelly Blorps is the name of my next band!
What's actually really interesting is that we're seeing trolls who are all alike. As far as the Known World is concerned, trolls are all individuals.
Post by: urbicande on March 19, 2016, 09:00:06 PM
Perhaps there was a secret lab practicing human cloning? No, really, these are the weirdest trolls we've seen this far, I'm very interested to know how they came to be. After all the grosslings we've seen it's also unusual that they are actually not very... gross. They are creepy, but they don't look like a mass of rotting flesh.
That's very true.
Hey, maybe these are the extradimensional aliens that started the Illness!
Post by: Dverghamrar on March 19, 2016, 10:13:00 PM
That's very true.So far these trolls intrigue me the most with their designs, so that would be neat if there was a backstory like that. :) Do we know if we'll have more info about Year 0 and how the Illness started?
Hey, maybe these are the extradimensional aliens that started the Illness!
Post by: Puls3 on March 20, 2016, 01:34:19 AM
For some reason the idea of a troll that's "really good at kicking" cracks me up. I think it's becaue I'm imagining the things going all Bruce Lee on poor Emil ;DNever thought of that before and now I'm all laughing for it :))
Post by: TicTac on March 20, 2016, 02:46:17 AM
Maybe these long legged guys are like, troll-flamingos or something with really long legs. Maybe they escaped from the zoo. *shrug*
Post by: Elleth on March 20, 2016, 03:00:45 AM
So far these trolls intrigue me the most with their designs, so that would be neat if there was a backstory like that. :) Do we know if we'll have more info about Year 0 and how the Illness started?
We don't know, but it feels especially likely with the vaccine plot and Hilde Rasmussen (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=275) being a fairly prominent discovery that Mikkel especially took an interest in... and with the team being sent out to
Post by: Dverghamrar on March 20, 2016, 08:54:29 AM
We don't know, but it feels especially likely with the vaccine plot and Hilde Rasmussen (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=275) being a fairly prominent discovery that Mikkel especially took an interest in... and with the team being sent out toOh yes, that's right!loot booksinvestigate things that were probably lost during the worst of the pandemic or never made it into official channels to prevent panic to begin with (there was only so much about the patients zero that ever made it public, after all) I hope this is an avenue Minna decides to explore. Origin stories are fascinating!
Post by: Johannabelle on March 20, 2016, 01:46:47 PM
Maybe the long-legged trolls weren't humans. We know animals can become trolls, sort of.Ehh, but with beasts you can pretty much tell what kind of animal they were originally, and the jelly heads don't ring any bells for me.
Maybe these long legged guys are like, troll-flamingos or something with really long legs. Maybe they escaped from the zoo. *shrug*
Also, hi. I haven't posted in this thread before(I also haven't posted in two weeks...), but I would just like to say that I'm really looking forward to flamethrower time. :D
Post by: chaelcodes on March 20, 2016, 05:00:37 PM
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on March 20, 2016, 07:32:47 PM
Post by: Elleth on March 20, 2016, 08:10:06 PM
Cross-posted from the comment section of Pg 495: Wild theory: the jelly trolls all look alike because they're a test group for a very failed version of the cure.
I love that idea! It could explain why, if they were treated at an early stage of the illness before mutation kicked in, they all developed in a fairly similar way when it eventually happened or even caused that particular mutation to begin with. There must have been test runs for a vaccine (the one that probably ultimately produced the ghosts), and the blorps might well be the result. Since treatment centers seem to have been established outside hospitals as well (iirc, the Death Room in Spot 24 has a bar, so it probably used to be a hotel or restaurant, or some wealthy person's town villa?) the team could easily have passed one where these tests were done, since there don't seem to be hospitals in the near vicinity of their (approximate) route...
Post by: urbicande on March 20, 2016, 08:13:04 PM
Ehh, but with beasts you can pretty much tell what kind of animal they were originally, and the jelly heads don't ring any bells for me.
To be fair, the info page says "often retaining" and not "always retaining"
Post by: urbicande on March 20, 2016, 08:13:28 PM
Cross-posted from the comment section of Pg 495: Wild theory: the jelly trolls all look alike because they're a test group for a very failed version of the cure.
Oh, I LIKE that!
Post by: SectoBoss on March 21, 2016, 12:16:52 PM
Cross-posted from the comment section of Pg 495: Wild theory: the jelly trolls all look alike because they're a test group for a very failed version of the cure.
"Okayyy... do you want the good news, or the bad news?"
Post by: Aansero on March 21, 2016, 02:13:48 PM
Maybe the long-legged trolls weren't humans. We know animals can become trolls, sort of.
Maybe these long legged guys are like, troll-flamingos or something with really long legs. Maybe they escaped from the zoo. *shrug*
The brain, eyes and spine combo are very obviously human though.
http://preview.turbosquid.com/Preview/2014/05/26__22_51_35/DL3D_EyeBrain_5.JPG27975ac2-0d75-43ba-8096-fb5511620fd4Original.jpg (3D anatomical model but a little gross if you don't like that kind of thing).
Post by: TicTac on March 21, 2016, 05:19:18 PM
The brain, eyes and spine combo are very obviously human though.
http://preview.turbosquid.com/Preview/2014/05/26__22_51_35/DL3D_EyeBrain_5.JPG27975ac2-0d75-43ba-8096-fb5511620fd4Original.jpg (3D anatomical model but a little gross if you don't like that kind of thing).
True, true. Right now I'm a fan of the 'failed version of vaccine' theory. But I guess we'll just have to see.
I hope Emil unleashes the flamethrower soon.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 22, 2016, 12:31:26 AM
Post by: Fen Shen on March 22, 2016, 05:13:29 AM
At least the two guys on the left look as if they are continuing forward. Imagine Emil with his flamethrower running after them: "Hey! I'm not finished with you!"
Also, they could then meet the thing in the water...
Post by: Fimbulvarg on March 22, 2016, 05:18:42 AM
Maybe these long legged guys are like, troll-flamingos or something with really long legs. Maybe they escaped from the zoo. *shrug*
Maybe they are what remains of the Royal Danish Ballet School just down the street from Amalienborg ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: Laufey on March 22, 2016, 05:59:34 AM
Maybe they are what remains of the Royal Danish Ballet School just down the street from Amalienborg ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/4a6665235c13e8c7569add69efbe0916/tumblr_nsxk5xdjn91r6soqlo6_250.png)
I almost feel bad about laughing at that. Almost.
Post by: Yuuago on March 22, 2016, 08:06:51 AM
The update came very late at night AND THEN I couldn't sleep (for unrelated reasons, but it doesn't help that those creepy eyes were haunting me) and now I'm just looking at it again and. Urgh. How are they so creepy and ridiculous at the same time?!
On the upside, I now have that fireshow I wanted. And that one panel of Emil's gorgeous face. Bless. Though, mate, you really shouldn't close your eyes when you're using that flamethrower, just... saying.
Post by: urbicande on March 22, 2016, 08:28:09 AM
Post by: Yuuago on March 22, 2016, 09:54:14 AM
I really am curious how all these trolls look so much the same. There is clearly much we don't know about the Illness.
Yeah, it really is odd, isn't it? I hope this mystery will get solved eventually.
My initial thought when they showed up was "maybe they're all related" (or rather, were related) but there might be too many of them for that, and it doesn't quite jive with the lore, anyway.
Post by: urbicande on March 22, 2016, 10:00:24 AM
Yeah, it really is odd, isn't it? I hope this mystery will get solved eventually.
My initial thought when they showed up was "maybe they're all related" (or rather, were related) but there might be too many of them for that, and it doesn't quite jive with the lore, anyway.
Indeed. And while it's Word of Minna (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=178) that no two trolls are alike and not significantly larger than the original person (which might make the jelly blorps giants rather than trolls), there's the caveat that "we know so very little about them"
Post by: Kiraly on March 23, 2016, 09:41:19 AM
Post by: Yuuago on March 23, 2016, 09:51:39 AM
(Okay, not to completely derail the serious speculation, but) After refreshing for the umpteenth time this morning, I realized that the lollipop trolls look much funnier if you imagine that the tiny inner brain thing is the head and the outside lines of the bubble are actually arms held up in a circle above the head. (Particularly in panels 6/7 of page 496). They look even more like giant murder ballerinas now and I'm dying of laughter!
(Who needs to be serious? ;p )
...Oh gods. I'm not going to be able to unsee that. Take responsibility. : D
Post by: Kiraly on March 23, 2016, 09:54:29 AM
(Who needs to be serious? ;p )
...Oh gods. I'm not going to be able to unsee that. Take responsibility. : D
Haha, sorry!
Post by: Mélusine on March 23, 2016, 11:37:19 AM
Post by: Yuuago on March 23, 2016, 11:40:08 AM
That monster like something you'd find in a Pokemon game.
Seems Sigrun has a plan, I think.
Post by: Mélusine on March 23, 2016, 11:43:57 AM
Seems Sigrun has a plan, I think.It's Sigrun. I'm not worrying. Errr... "plan" ? Well... no, I'm not afraid...
Post by: Yuuago on March 23, 2016, 11:48:35 AM
It's Sigrun. I'm not worrying. Errr... "plan" ? Well... no, I'm not afraid...
The only one who needs to worry is the troll. It's up against Sigrun, after all. ;p
Post by: urbicande on March 23, 2016, 12:10:16 PM
497 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=497)
That monster like something you'd find in a Pokemon game.
Seems Sigrun has a plan, I think.
As I said in the comments, it's clearly been evolved using a Water Stone.
Post by: Mélusine on March 23, 2016, 12:23:17 PM
The only one who needs to worry is the troll. It's up against Sigrun, after all. ;pMy only preoccupation was "What silly thing will she do ?" before remembering that, in such situations, Sigrun is simply the most best ;)
Post by: Puls3 on March 23, 2016, 02:38:57 PM
The question is: will Sigrun manage to reach the emergency staircase before the troll notices or will the Great Dane dive in to save the day?
(I mean he should have some plan right?)
Post by: Fimbulvarg on March 23, 2016, 02:57:41 PM
It does seem that the troll has a peculiar passion for water boarding.
Ah yes, a classical move in the realm of trolling.
"You want to breathe? Go right ahea-- Psyche!"
Lalli is going to be so confused when he emerges from hibernation.
Post by: urbicande on March 23, 2016, 03:26:19 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on March 23, 2016, 03:28:24 PM
Post by: Ragnarok on March 23, 2016, 03:52:26 PM
Post by: Kiraly on March 23, 2016, 04:40:34 PM
Wait, so it's Mama Leaftroll? Sigrun is gonna be like 'oh, come on, this guy again?'
If that's the case, Mama Leaftroll is probably a little upset about what happened to her baby.
Post by: JoB on March 23, 2016, 05:03:25 PM
If that's the case, Mama Leaftroll is probably a little upset about what happened to her baby.She was asleep when it died, and at the hands of the Amalienborg ghosts, no less. She'ld need to put the prophetic capabilities of seiður to shame to even know about the event.
Post by: urbicande on March 23, 2016, 05:04:43 PM
If that's the case, Mama Leaftroll is probably a little upset about what happened to her baby.
Have you ever read Beowulf?
Post by: Mélusine on March 23, 2016, 06:04:29 PM
Lalli is going to be so confused when he emerges from hibernation.Or maybe he'll sleep during a few more days and don't notice anything.
Post by: Elleth on March 24, 2016, 01:41:08 AM
Wait, so it's Mama Leaftroll? Sigrun is gonna be like 'oh, come on, this guy again?'
Whether or not they're related, the visual similarity is there. And Leaftroll did take a bite out of Sigrun, just saying.
/another episode in "Elleth's brain is a hive of angst and pessimism". I don't actually want Sigrun to die or be seriously hurt! That was enough smacking around to satisfy the "hurt" part in my hurt/comfort cravings, so some comfort would be nice now! But thinking about these pages = bad idea for optimism. :-\
Post by: Yuuago on March 24, 2016, 08:00:42 AM
Whether or not they're related, the visual similarity is there. And Leaftroll did take a bite out of Sigrun, just saying.
/another episode in "Elleth's brain is a hive of angst and pessimism". I don't actually want Sigrun to die or be seriously hurt! That was enough smacking around to satisfy the "hurt" part in my hurt/comfort cravings, so some comfort would be nice now! But thinking about these pages = bad idea for optimism. :-\
/me wraps Elleth's brain in a blanket
Death is unlikely at this canon point, but comfort probably isn't happening any time soon, considering we've still got quite a bit to go, so... Best to just strap yourself in and go along for the ride.
Me, I can hardly wait to find out what her plan is to get out of this.
Post by: Ragnarok on March 24, 2016, 08:06:01 AM
Post by: chaelcodes on March 24, 2016, 08:51:01 AM
Post by: SectoBoss on March 24, 2016, 09:05:36 AM
I think she's going to try and get up those stairs. She realizes she can't kill it, and rope's not going to work, because it'll just swat her down. She needs some cover, and to get to the surface. The shaft of stairs can provide both, because the tentacles will have to poke through, instead of swatting.
Provided, of course, that 90 years haven't turned those stairs into something with the structural integrity of a bag of crisps. That'd be great, wouldn't it? Sigrun gets to them, wriggles inside, thinks she's safe and then blam, this thing just tears it apart like it's wet paper.
I feel like this beastie is something the crew will just have to escape from rather than deal with. I have to wonder if they even packed anything that could kill it - Emil's little bomblets that he killed the toothy troll with in chapter 5 don't look like they'd cut it here.
Post by: Puls3 on March 24, 2016, 12:53:04 PM
Emil's little bomblets that he killed the toothy troll with in chapter 5 don't look like they'd cut it here.*Emil used flamethrower on the water troll*
* It's not very effective*
Post by: Mélusine on March 24, 2016, 07:29:05 PM
Post by: Yuuago on March 24, 2016, 07:45:31 PM
All will be fine, all will just be fiiiiiiine... but Mikkel is moving in his try to help.
"Everything is going to be juuust fiiiiine" is a great way to put it... considering another person in that water is the last thing we need. D: Mikkel, no.
Post by: TicTac on March 24, 2016, 09:54:53 PM
Post by: urbicande on March 24, 2016, 10:50:35 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 25, 2016, 03:07:14 AM
And I'm glad I wasn't going nuts with the number of comics this week ;D
Post by: SectoBoss on March 25, 2016, 10:19:58 AM
This is the kind of situation where a pistol - ideally with a silencer - would make all the difference. Even if the bullets bounce off they're likely to elicit more of a response than a few hurled rocks.
Provided it was one of those Hollywood silencers that turns the gun from BANG to phwut. I've heard ones in real life aren't nearly as effective. But yeah, I get the feeling Mikkel might as well be hurling snowballs as rocks at this point!
Post by: urbicande on March 25, 2016, 12:02:08 PM
Provided it was one of those Hollywood silencers that turns the gun from BANG to phwut. I've heard ones in real life aren't nearly as effective. But yeah, I get the feeling Mikkel might as well be hurling snowballs as rocks at this point!
Hes also throwing little teeny rocks. That's not going to get anyone's attention.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 25, 2016, 08:26:10 PM
Provided it was one of those Hollywood silencers that turns the gun from BANG to phwut. I've heard ones in real life aren't nearly as effective. But yeah, I get the feeling Mikkel might as well be hurling snowballs as rocks at this point!
From what I understand a silencer will change a BANG to the sound of someone slamming a pile of phone books onto a table. That's got to be slightly less effective at summoning every troll in the vicinity ;D
Post by: SectoBoss on March 26, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
From what I understand a silencer will change a BANG to the sound of someone slamming a pile of phone books onto a table. That's got to be slightly less effective at summoning every troll in the vicinity ;D
Now imagining Mikkel pelting the thing with a bunch of phone books they had in the cargo hold :D
Post by: Kiraly on March 26, 2016, 03:38:49 PM
Now imagining Mikkel pelting the thing with a bunch of phone books they had in the cargo hold :D
"Thank goodness, we finally have a use for these!"
Post by: SectoBoss on March 26, 2016, 03:45:52 PM
"Thank goodness, we finally have a use for these!"
"And to think I was going to put these in the porridge!"
Post by: Kiraly on March 26, 2016, 03:49:06 PM
"And to think I was going to put these in the porridge!"
Sigrun, later: "I told you your cooking was gonna kill someone...didn't realize it would be a troll!"
Post by: Puls3 on March 26, 2016, 07:10:31 PM
The funniest part however, must be Mikkel's face of disbelief as he sees a bunch of burning murder lollipops running towards them. :'D
Post by: Kiraly on March 26, 2016, 07:15:23 PM
So Sigrun made it after all, but that didn't mean she was safe. The kraken trying to climb up seem to indicate that along with Emil fleeing from his troll encounter that went slightly out of hand.
The funniest part however, must be Mikkel's face of disbelief as he sees a bunch of burning murder lollipops running towards them. :'D
See, I'm so torn because his face when Sigrun hits him with the rock is also amazing! And Sigrun's "NOPE" face.
Post by: urbicande on March 26, 2016, 07:26:33 PM
So Sigrun made it after all, but that didn't mean she was safe. The kraken trying to climb up seem to indicate that along with Emil fleeing from his troll encounter that went slightly out of hand.
There's really never any doubt that Sigrun would make it out. She is, after all, the most best.
Post by: Mélusine on March 26, 2016, 07:29:21 PM
She is, after all, the most best.But tired of this situation, right now.
Post by: urbicande on March 26, 2016, 07:36:13 PM
But tired of this situation, right now.
Well, yeah. She'd probably like dry shoes and a cup of hot candle-and-tuna soup
Post by: Elleth on March 27, 2016, 02:23:48 AM
Well, yeah. She'd probably like dry shoes and a cup of hot candle-and-tuna soup
I very much think you're right... she probably wouldn't even complain about Mikkel's cooking at the moment, as long as it's warm. It's the least evil thing to happen to her that night, and with the four different types of done she is in that page, hum.
But wow, I'm impressed at Watcher-Troll's persistence to get itself a Most Best snack. Hope it likes flaming lollipops (;D) as an alternative... although this might also finally answer whether or not there's a hivemind-like social structure at play with different trolls (it seems fairly certain to me with the Splamps since they move in a herd and it looked a lot like they tried to surround Emil -> cooperation?), whether they're territorial, and whether or not there's predation among grosslings.
Now, if the Splamps and Watcher-Troll cooperate, the team has an even worse problem, and somehow it feels like a monster fight would be too obvious for Minna to go for. She always has something up her sleeve.
Post by: Kiraly on March 27, 2016, 09:28:17 AM
I... hadn't realised there was still going to be one more page this week (the holidays and the unusual schedule had apparently confused me) but there was a page, and Sigrun's out of the water!!! Everything is still a mess, but I've never been happier to see a drawing of a person climbing stairs. :P
Unfortunately there's something else climbing stairs too, but maybe it's too bloated for the rusty staircase, or is that too much to hope.
I'm personally hoping the stairs are too old and rusty to support its weight for long, since they're making those worrying "krrrk" noises.
Also, I was looking back for some drawing references, and the foreshadowing at the end of page 429 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=429) made me cringe. I mean, we pretty much all knew Sigrun wouldn't keep her wounds clean and dry, but...
Post by: SectoBoss on March 27, 2016, 12:33:23 PM
Somehow I suspect that comic magic will help heal the wound in the long run, because something like tetanus seems like an unlikely plot point, but it doesn't look pretty.
That said, a sub-plot about the hazards of the silent world that aren't trolls might be interesting! Collapsing buildings, any remaining pollutants seeping into the water, diseases and infections, dwindling supplies, bad weather...
Post by: Kiraly on March 27, 2016, 02:02:03 PM
Somehow I suspect that comic magic will help heal the wound in the long run, because something like tetanus seems like an unlikely plot point, but it doesn't look pretty.
Oh yeah...I sure hope that things like tetanus shots are still around in Y90. And that someone had the forethought to make sure the crew were all up-to-date on theirs when they went out. (Not that I think Minna would have something so mundane take anyone out, but it does add a whole new spectrum of things to worry about.)
That said, a sub-plot about the hazards of the silent world that aren't trolls might be interesting! Collapsing buildings, any remaining pollutants seeping into the water, diseases and infections, dwindling supplies, bad weather...
That sure sounds like prime fanfiction material right there... *shifty eyes*
If only I were capable of writing anything other than mountains of fluff...
Post by: urbicande on March 27, 2016, 04:23:37 PM
That said, a sub-plot about the hazards of the silent world that aren't trolls might be interesting! Collapsing buildings, any remaining pollutants seeping into the water, diseases and infections, dwindling supplies, bad weather...
Lion and tigers and bears!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 28, 2016, 10:50:41 AM
Post by: urbicande on March 28, 2016, 11:23:07 AM
Woohoo! Page 500 and troll infighting! ;D
Yeah. Although...
The jellyheads are still far too much alike to be normal trolls. And the Watcher in the Water is most definitely NOT a troll. At that size, it's either going to be a giant or it's going to be a beast-whale.
Post by: SectoBoss on March 28, 2016, 11:53:13 AM
The jellyheads are still far too much alike to be normal trolls. And the Watcher in the Water is most definitely NOT a troll. At that size, it's either going to be a giant or it's going to be a beast-whale.
Well, you never know. I doubt there's been particularly comprehensive studies done on the distribution of mutations in trolls, after all! And my vote would be giant. It doesn't look anything like a whale and actually might be a bit too small (never thought I'd say that of a rash-monster!).
Post by: Ragnarok on March 28, 2016, 12:03:45 PM
Post by: urbicande on March 28, 2016, 12:11:33 PM
Well, you never know. I doubt there's been particularly comprehensive studies done on the distribution of mutations in trolls, after all! And my vote would be giant. It doesn't look anything like a whale and actually might be a bit too small (never thought I'd say that of a rash-monster!).
Hmm..depends on what type of whale it was, surely. Gray, bowhead, humpback,right, fin, sperm -- they all look about that size. Grays don't live in that part of the world, bowheads surely do. And you can find rights, fins, and sperms up there.
(That said, Word of Minna says "troll" even if I disagree with her on this)
Post by: JoB on March 28, 2016, 12:29:32 PM
And the Watcher in the Water is most definitely NOT a troll. At that size, it's either going to be a giant or it's going to be a beast-whale.Yet, Minna called it a "bloated water troll" on p497 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=497) ...
(Granted, she also "RIP Sigrun"ed on p491 ...)
Considering that this is a railroad trench that doesn't get closer than 200m to CPH's harbor canals, and 2+km from the open sea, a whale would have to already be beastified and distinctly non-original-animal-like to even get there ...
Post by: SectoBoss on March 28, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
Hmm..depends on what type of whale it was, surely. Gray, bowhead, humpback,right, fin, sperm -- they all look about that size. Grays don't live in that part of the world, bowheads surely do. And you can find rights, fins, and sperms up there.
I guess I'm used to thinking of 'whale' as a synonym for 'absolutely flipping huge' :)
But there's also the fact that beasts are said not to deviate too far from the body plan the animal originally had - it's the once-human trolls that are the weird and wonderful ones. And this thing doesn't look anything like a whale to me. Granted it doesn't look like much of anything (Satan's stingray, maybe), but I guess that's the point. Plus there is the issue, like JoB says, of how it got into the middle of a city. Not that I wouldn't mind a story arc where the crew stops by the coast and are menaced by a leviathan that crawls up onto dry land!
So yeah, cool as it would definitely be to have a leviathan pottering around the ruins of the city, I think this thing is still a troll/giant.
Post by: urbicande on March 28, 2016, 01:48:24 PM
I guess I'm used to thinking of 'whale' as a synonym for 'absolutely flipping huge' :)
But there's also the fact that beasts are said not to deviate too far from the body plan the animal originally had - it's the once-human trolls that are the weird and wonderful ones. And this thing doesn't look anything like a whale to me. Granted it doesn't look like much of anything (Satan's stingray, maybe), but I guess that's the point. Plus there is the issue, like JoB says, of how it got into the middle of a city. Not that I wouldn't mind a story arc where the crew stops by the coast and are menaced by a leviathan that crawls up onto dry land!
So yeah, cool as it would definitely be to have a leviathan pottering around the ruins of the city, I think this thing is still a troll/giant.
Oh, I think it's likely a giant rather than a beast, but there's something...odd...going on around Copenhagen.
Post by: Keeper on March 28, 2016, 01:58:15 PM
Oh, I think it's likely a giant rather than a beast, but there's something...odd...going on around Copenhagen.
Post by: SectoBoss on March 28, 2016, 02:10:04 PM
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.::)
The only reason I'm not quietly judging you is that I thought the exact same thing. :))
Post by: urbicande on March 28, 2016, 02:16:36 PM
Post by: SectoBoss on March 28, 2016, 02:18:27 PM
I'm judging both of you, but only because I didn't think of that and I should have.
I assumed you had thought of it but were trying not to say it...
Post by: Helia on March 28, 2016, 05:38:52 PM
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g309/Helia_photos/4S/IMG_6949_zpsgffx2kjh.jpg)
Post by: Yuuago on March 29, 2016, 01:33:44 PM
501 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=501)
Krakentrollthingy is weirdly cute and... I almost feel bad for it.
Almost.
Post by: urbicande on March 29, 2016, 01:39:18 PM
Helia that is one adorable and awesome photograph! : D
501 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=501)
Krakentrollthingy is weirdly cute and... I almost feel bad for it.
Almost.
"For he who fights and runs away
May live to fight another day;
But he who is in battle slain
Can never rise and fight again."
Post by: Kiraly on March 29, 2016, 04:09:11 PM
Helia, that's adorable! Great way to celebrate.
It makes me think of the Groke from Moomins. Argh, three pages ago the thing was actively trying to drown Sigrun, and now it is sad, that's completely unreasonable. Probably sad because it failed doing that, but now it manages to look like it's sad because it doesn't have friends.
Poor thing...every time it makes a new friend, the friend ends up dead. ;)
Post by: urbicande on March 29, 2016, 04:34:45 PM
Poor thing...every time it makes a new friend, the friend ends up dead. ;)
One wonders if The Squirrel With the Marvelous Tail was one of the animals living in Kastellet (although I think that he had a run-in with the Lady of the Cold rather than the Groke, right?)
Post by: Puls3 on March 30, 2016, 04:14:48 PM
Post by: urbicande on March 30, 2016, 10:46:02 PM
I never thought I would say this, but I actually feel pity for the troll. Especially on panel 3 as it's just trying to drag itself back into safety
Trolls and giants seem to be acting more on instinct. We're not quite sure what drives them and why they're so hostile.
Now, the *spirits* seem to be more menacing.
Post by: SectoBoss on April 01, 2016, 03:24:38 PM
Trolls and giants seem to be acting more on instinct. We're not quite sure what drives them and why they're so hostile.
Now, the *spirits* seem to be more menacing.
There definitely does seem to be something more premeditated about the spirits' actions, doesn't there? If it weren't for the Dalahästen giant going all "help me" on Emil, I would almost be tempted to say that victims of the rash might be having their souls disconnected from their bodies, with only the primitive instincs remaining in the trolls while the higher reasoning gets to flicker on a wall for 90 years and go mad from isolation.
Post by: urbicande on April 01, 2016, 05:30:06 PM
There definitely does seem to be something more premeditated about the spirits' actions, doesn't there? If it weren't for the Dalahästen giant going all "help me" on Emil, I would almost be tempted to say that victims of the rash might be having their souls disconnected from their bodies, with only the primitive instincs remaining in the trolls while the higher reasoning gets to flicker on a wall for 90 years and go mad from isolation.
I don't get the impression that spirits are normally as hostile in the Known World as they are in Copenhagen.
Post by: Róisín on April 01, 2016, 11:13:43 PM
Post by: urbicande on April 02, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
Given Lalli's lack of concern (I get the impression he's pretty paranoid, with reason), Tuuri's reassuring of Reynir, and Reynir's mention of 'not like the spirits at home', I strongly suspect that the Copenhagen murderghosts are something nobody has seen before, or at least has not seen and lived to tell about.
Indeed. Or there's something special about the team that changes the spirits!
Post by: Ragnarok on April 02, 2016, 05:15:20 PM
Given Lalli's lack of concern (I get the impression he's pretty paranoid, with reason), Tuuri's reassuring of Reynir, and Reynir's mention of 'not like the spirits at home', I strongly suspect that the Copenhagen murderghosts are something nobody has seen before, or at least has not seen and lived to tell about.
Wonderful. "Danish Rash Cures! Not only do they NOT work, they also create abominations of magic and the spirit world! Order yours today!"
Post by: SectoBoss on April 05, 2016, 03:48:46 AM
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2016, 04:02:35 AM
Post by: Helia on April 05, 2016, 04:13:13 AM
Okay, so what is going on in today's page? Reynir has a vision of a church - and an image of someone who may be a saint? - and is that candle talking to him or is it just meant to be someone hidden in the shadows?
Who lit the candle?
And what are those creepy sheep on the portrait of that saint?
Post by: Laufey on April 05, 2016, 04:45:47 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on April 05, 2016, 04:57:18 AM
I think voices from a sacred flame (which a church candle might be) are a thing with Christians as with us Pagans?
It's pretty uncommon. The only example I can remember is the burning bush talking to Moses. Otherwise, God (and the Holy Spirit specifically) is often represented through fire but doesn't talk in its fire form. I doubt Minna has enough interest in Christianity to pull some obscure biblical metaphor on us, so for now I assume there is some human soul there talking to Reynir. I'm open to being proven wrong :)
Post by: Mélusine on April 05, 2016, 06:20:56 AM
Post by: Yuuago on April 05, 2016, 07:44:21 AM
...Those sleeping arrangements look awfully cramped. Somebody should put Lalli back under the bed where he belongs. ;p
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 05, 2016, 08:16:36 AM
And I think those sheep look cute, not menacing (I'm probably wrong though :) )
Post by: urbicande on April 05, 2016, 08:45:55 AM
Interesting that it's a Christian church. I imagine that there are still Christians around, even though the old gods are now ascendant, but has Reynir ever been in a church like this before? Based on demographics, I'd expect most Christians still in Iceland to be Lutherans, but this looks like it would be Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox (and more likely the first, according to what Google tells me).
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on April 05, 2016, 09:15:21 AM
I'll just cut and paste what I put on Disqus:I lean more towards this:
Interesting that it's a Christian church. I imagine that there are still Christians around, even though the old gods are now ascendant, but has Reynir ever been in a church like this before? Based on demographics, I'd expect most Christians still in Iceland to be Lutherans, but this looks like it would be Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox (and more likely the first, according to what Google tells me).
The interior looks very typical Icelandic church, and shepherd images in protestant churches are not usually depictions of saints, that might be Jesus himself. Question is, what's wrong with his sheep?Lutherans kept most (not all) of the Catholic church design--unsurprisingly, given that the earliest Lutheran church buildings (those in Europe) were built as Catholic churches before the Reformation.
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2016, 09:26:01 AM
At any rate, that's background to what I started to say: in that West Irish variant, there is a deal of the voices-in-light-and-fire stuff, but generally such things are ascribed either to the Virgin, St. Bridget, or 'Saint' Patrick. Weren't there some instances in the New Testament of the Paraclete appearing so? Maybe something to do with the Annunciation? And some Old Testament bits?
Post by: urbicande on April 05, 2016, 09:46:50 AM
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2016, 10:42:21 AM
Post by: Elleth on April 05, 2016, 11:26:49 AM
All I've seen mentioned so far is that the Finns have stuck by their old forest gods, the Icelanders and Norwegians have reverted to (I think) the old Nordic pantheon. What little we've seen of their magic and runes would suggest this. Whereas the Swedes and Danes 'do not know of the kindness of the gods'. What this all means I don't know. Suggestions, anybody?
That was in reference to the Danes especially (the Swedes are just arrogant and fail to follow the Old Gods as they're doing fine), and I suppose it means they are under no particular protection. After suffering so many setbacks it'd be easy to think that the Norse Gods have forsaken them for not believing. I do think Christianity could still alive and reasonably well in Sweden, given that there are churches in Mora (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=127). It looks like the in-universe Skald who wrote the world info pages is an Icelander, though, so he might be operating under the bias of the Icelanders rejecting their more recent past and simply not find Christianity worth paying attention to?
Post by: Helia on April 05, 2016, 11:32:01 AM
I lean more towards this:Lutherans kept most (not all) of the Catholic church design--unsurprisingly, given that the earliest Lutheran church buildings (those in Europe) were built as Catholic churches before the Reformation.
Using the old Catholic churches doesn't necessary means that they kept the design (well, the design of the building yes) - for instance Europe's other large protestant church, the Calvinist Church didn't. You wouldn't find crosses or any portrayal of humans in a Calvinist church, and in general, they wanted their churches look pure. (Of course people still found ways to decorate their churches - for example with beautiful ornamental paintings...)
Sc0ut, I suppose it occurred to me because a lot of the Christianity I've been exposed to has been West Irish Catholicism, and that style has imbibed a lot of the Irish Pagan custom and usage. It's very different to Lutheranism! (I also have experience of that, given that we live in the Barossa Valley, and one of my daughters-in-law and her family are Lutherans of the grim and stark kind). I'm a Celtic Pagan myself, and I was always amused by how much of our ways had leaked across into the local Christian population. Or perhaps it had never left. Not so much into formal Church usage, as into the religious observances of everyday life. For instance, a farming household, nominally Catholic, might have a little bottle of holy water from the local church, for cleansing or blessing things, but they might also leave out a nightly offering of milk for Themselves. And when people lit a candle for Saint Bridget, the prayer they used was an only very slightly modified version of the old preChristian invocation to Brigid/Bride, the old-faith Lady of light and fire. Most of the Catholic priests there just learned to live with it.
I'd say it had never left. What you described, is a very-very common practice. Using blessed things for magic is kind of an important part of what folklorists call "folk religion". (But people who put blessed catkin in the oven to keep away storms - for example - never think they're doing something pagan.
And in multireligional places even protestants might do thing like this - out of tradition.)
But back to the comic - I wonder about the y90 use of the churches we've seen in Mora and in Keuruu (lilLalli flashback). I doubt that they kept their Christian equipments.
Post by: urbicande on April 05, 2016, 12:07:47 PM
That was in reference to the Danes especially (the Swedes are just arrogant and fail to follow the Old Gods as they're doing fine), and I suppose it means they are under no particular protection. After suffering so many setbacks it'd be easy to think that the Norse Gods have forsaken them for not believing. I do think Christianity could still alive and reasonably well in Sweden, given that there are churches in Mora (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=127). It looks like the in-universe Skald who wrote the world info pages is an Icelander, though, so he might be operating under the bias of the Icelanders rejecting their more recent past and simply not find Christianity worth paying attention to?
Well,we see buildings that look like churches, which doesn't mean we see actual churches, right?
I'd be surprised to find Christianity completely gone. It's only been 90 years and people can be very tenacious in their beliefs (I'm Jewish. We're used to holding on).
Post by: Cynic on April 05, 2016, 12:54:10 PM
...I'd be surprised to find Christianity completely gone. It's only been 90 years and people can be very tenacious in their beliefs (I'm Jewish. We're used to holding on).But there are few or very few actually firm believes in religion in the Nordic area, and many of those have found other religions.
Sure we are nominally over 90% christian, probably 80% of those don't really believe and do not actually even go trough the motion.
It can't be overstated that Christianity is for the most part just skin deep over here, most don't believe in God and many of those who do don't thing the Church (any church) got it right about him(her?).
Post by: urbicande on April 05, 2016, 02:37:38 PM
But there are few or very few actually firm believes in religion in the Nordic area, and many of those have found other religions.
Sure we are nominally over 90% christian, probably 80% of those don't really believe and do not actually even go trough the motion.
It can't be overstated that Christianity is for the most part just skin deep over here, most don't believe in God and many of those who do don't thing the Church (any church) got it right about him(her?).
Sure, that's understandable, but the other thing is that if there's one thing that brings on religious fervor, it's some great disaster. Like, say, a highly infectious plague that's wiping out civilization as we know it.
(Not that there'd be a LOT of Christians, but I'd expect there to be some). My fellow Jews are almost certainly extinct, though.
Post by: SectoBoss on April 05, 2016, 03:36:08 PM
Sure, that's understandable, but the other thing is that if there's one thing that brings on religious fervor, it's some great disaster. Like, say, a highly infectious plague that's wiping out civilization as we know it.
(Not that there'd be a LOT of Christians, but I'd expect there to be some). My fellow Jews are almost certainly extinct, though.
"No atheists in foxholes" and all that (and I say that as an atheist myself!). I must admit I wouldn't be surprised to see church attendances rising as the world came crashing down. Perhaps, ironically, allowing faster spread of the Rash amongst the congregation...
And again this leads me to wonder if Christian magic could exist in this world - although I guess it would look very different to Norse stuff, considering the wildly different doctrines the two religions have on that stuff. Maybe devout Christians experience a sort of 'guardian angel' effect and suffer fewer misfortunes in this world, but because it's not the comparatively flashy stuff of the Norse mages no-one notices?
Post by: Kiraly on April 05, 2016, 03:47:50 PM
...Those sleeping arrangements look awfully cramped. Somebody should put Lalli back under the bed where he belongs. ;p
Heh, yeah, I'm just waiting for him to wake up and realize that not only is he not under the bed, but he's also sandwiched between two people who are pretty far down on his "acceptable people" list.
Post by: urbicande on April 05, 2016, 03:55:32 PM
"No atheists in foxholes" and all that (and I say that as an atheist myself!). I must admit I wouldn't be surprised to see church attendances rising as the world came crashing down. Perhaps, ironically, allowing faster spread of the Rash amongst the congregation...
And again this leads me to wonder if Christian magic could exist in this world - although I guess it would look very different to Norse stuff, considering the wildly different doctrines the two religions have on that stuff. Maybe devout Christians experience a sort of 'guardian angel' effect and suffer fewer misfortunes in this world, but because it's not the comparatively flashy stuff of the Norse mages no-one notices?
It's canon in this world that the Old Gods exist -- the Norse and Finnish pantheons, at least. It's not established that the God (as understood in Christianity) exists.
Post by: Rabbit on April 05, 2016, 04:07:24 PM
It's canon in this world that the Old Gods exist -- the Norse and Finnish pantheons, at least. It's not established that the God (as understood in Christianity) exists.
Strictly speaking, what's canon is that magic invoking the old faith has effect. Whether the Old Gods themselves exist and whether they're the ones granting power to the spells is unclear. We could just as well be looking at some sort of psychic human-origin power that takes the form of pagan magic because that's what the spellcasters believe will work. In that kind of system, a Christian prayer from a similarly powered individual would work just as well if they genuinely believed it did.
*is a fan of clap-your-hands-if-you-believe style magic systems and will insert them wherever possible*
Post by: SectoBoss on April 05, 2016, 04:09:45 PM
It's canon in this world that the Old Gods exist -- the Norse and Finnish pantheons, at least. It's not established that the God (as understood in Christianity) exists.
I was wondering about that - is it confirmed that the pagan gods exist, or just that magic does? Is it possible that magic simply works in the way people expect it to work, if that makes any sense? (eg a Finnish mage has runos work for them because they believe there's power in the words, but staves are 'just drawings' so they have no effect) Perhaps even the gods themselves, if the comic were to ever actually show them in one form or another, might just be conjured up because their worshippers expect to see them.
(I see there's functionally no difference between what I just suggested and 'the old gods exist'! Perhaps I shouldn't ponder this sort of thing on too much coffee...)
Edit: aaaaand Rabbit puts it more eloquently than I could xD
Post by: JoB on April 05, 2016, 05:37:06 PM
I'm late to the party, but today's page sure was a surprise!I'm even later (on a two-week trip with intermittent time & net access right now) and would like to share an epiphany I had about the ghosts while reading up the previous page (505). ::)
- OK, so the ghost killing Rootroll took on its shape as well while it did so. That means that there's some information to be found in how all the ghosts we saw previously still looked human. It means that the ghosts trying to kill Emil, and later the entire crew, were not "tainted" by having absorbed Leaftroll or some other grossling. Evil spirits having murderous intent towards living humans is what they are right from square one!
- We have an estimate that only about a percent of the infected humans turn into a troll, the other 99% "just die". Remember how we compared the number of ghosts to that of the beds in Amalienborg, and found that they more or less match? So (and still assuming that the attempt at a cure caused the ghosts to come into existence) that "cure" might have a one hundred percent "success" rate in turning the patient into a ghost. Can you imagine the Danish government supplying 57,000 patients in CPH (of 590,000 inhabitants of the city proper, and 1.99M of the metro area) with the cure? If yes, then there's more ghosts in CPH than trolls in the entirety of Silent Denmark!
- Remember Sigrun commenting on how to avoid a troll fight (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=232)? "Out of sight, out of mind"? Look at these ghosts, which have lost sight of the cat-tank hours ago, and how "out of mind" applies to them only in some entirely different way. With their persistence, the cat-tank might have a pack of a hundred or more ghosts tailing it before the team even notices that there are those invulnerable murderghosts following them ... everywhere ... even to whatever land-based quarantine facility they might want to take refuge at.
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2016, 07:45:22 PM
And the Christian magic thing? Old Testament god didn't say there wasn't magic, just forbade his people the practice of it. Along with the 'have no other gods before me' thing, not denying other gods exist. Remember Samuel and the prophetess?
I do think even modern Christians have magic, though not the laity. Some Catholic practices look very magical to me. Ever looked closely at the knotwork on some items of a priest's outfit?
Post by: urbicande on April 05, 2016, 10:27:13 PM
I was wondering about that - is it confirmed that the pagan gods exist, or just that magic does? Is it possible that magic simply works in the way people expect it to work, if that makes any sense? (eg a Finnish mage has runos work for them because they believe there's power in the words, but staves are 'just drawings' so they have no effect) Perhaps even the gods themselves, if the comic were to ever actually show them in one form or another, might just be conjured up because their worshippers expect to see them.
(I see there's functionally no difference between what I just suggested and 'the old gods exist'! Perhaps I shouldn't ponder this sort of thing on too much coffee...)
Edit: aaaaand Rabbit puts it more eloquently than I could xD
Well....the info page (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87) says that Icelandic mages receive their power from the gods Freyja and Óðinn. Finnish mages...who knows?
Mind, my own speculations is that magic and the Illness are interconnected; the gods may just be inhabitants of the magical realm who aid Icelandic mages.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 05, 2016, 11:06:10 PM
Well....the info page (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87) says that Icelandic mages receive their power from the gods Freyja and Óðinn.
Although as with all info pages it's written from an in universe viewpoint, and is therefore fallible.
Post by: Unlos on April 06, 2016, 04:54:33 AM
Post by: Laufey on April 06, 2016, 04:59:05 AM
The latest update shows a half moon and I was thinking wait wait wasn't it just full? And then I made a timeline spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4jFF4PhZJycRh_AG3N5FV6Eedy6Wht0bU6hLWGxy1c/edit?usp=sharing) (There must be other timelines out there, but I couldn't find them) and lo and behold it fits!!!
Wow, that's amazing work, both you and Minna!
Post by: Róisín on April 06, 2016, 05:18:28 AM
Post by: Rabbit on April 06, 2016, 05:24:20 AM
The latest update shows a half moon and I was thinking wait wait wasn't it just full? And then I made a timeline spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4jFF4PhZJycRh_AG3N5FV6Eedy6Wht0bU6hLWGxy1c/edit?usp=sharing) (There must be other timelines out there, but I couldn't find them) and lo and behold it fits!!!
Wow, Unlos, this is a treasure!
Post by: Unlos on April 06, 2016, 05:34:37 AM
Wow, that's amazing work, both you and Minna!Thank you!
Unlos: it fits well. Good! Waning gibbous moon, third quarter, was about what I thought.Yeah, the size of it suggests waning gibbous while the straight profile of it is more last quarter.
Wow, Unlos, this is a treasure!Thank you! I'm still home with bronchitis but apparently well enough to sit up doing ssss-related stuff, yay!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 06, 2016, 06:55:17 AM
Great timeline by the way Unlos, I've been meaning to compile one myself but you've saved me the trouble!
Post by: Yuuago on April 06, 2016, 07:54:24 AM
The latest update shows a half moon and I was thinking wait wait wasn't it just full? And then I made a timeline spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4jFF4PhZJycRh_AG3N5FV6Eedy6Wht0bU6hLWGxy1c/edit?usp=sharing) (There must be other timelines out there, but I couldn't find them) and lo and behold it fits!!!
This is amazing. You are an absolute gift. : D
Post by: urbicande on April 06, 2016, 08:23:21 AM
The latest update shows a half moon and I was thinking wait wait wasn't it just full? And then I made a timeline spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4jFF4PhZJycRh_AG3N5FV6Eedy6Wht0bU6hLWGxy1c/edit?usp=sharing) (There must be other timelines out there, but I couldn't find them) and lo and behold it fits!!!
Ah! That's excellent, thank you!
Post by: Athena on April 06, 2016, 10:58:35 AM
The latest update shows a half moon and I was thinking wait wait wasn't it just full? And then I made a timeline spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4jFF4PhZJycRh_AG3N5FV6Eedy6Wht0bU6hLWGxy1c/edit?usp=sharing) (There must be other timelines out there, but I couldn't find them) and lo and behold it fits!!!
Wow, I didn't know there's a timeline! That's very cool! :D
Post by: |Yucca| on April 06, 2016, 12:10:26 PM
The latest update shows a half moon and I was thinking wait wait wasn't it just full? And then I made a timeline spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4jFF4PhZJycRh_AG3N5FV6Eedy6Wht0bU6hLWGxy1c/edit?usp=sharing) (There must be other timelines out there, but I couldn't find them) and lo and behold it fits!!!
I was thinking about doing this the other day. I also wanted to see if all the details fit together. One thing we can do with this info is to calculate the average speeds of the vehicles they have used.
The paddlewheeler: 300 km, 20 locks on the waterway (let's say about 10 min for each, total of 3,5-4 hours off the travel time), total travel time 11 hours
Meaning average speed of about 22-23 knots (when taking the locking sequences into account). Plausible, but kinda unrealistic like the whole waterway.
Viking Line ship: 220 km, total travel time 16 hours
Meaning average speed of about 7,5 knots. This makes no sense, the ship must've left close to midnight or something, as big ships like that tend to have average speed of about 20 knots.
The train from Björköfjärden to Mora: 430 km, total travel time 4-5 hours?
Meaning average speed of about 90-110 km/h. Realistic.
The train from Mora to Malmö: 800 km, total travel time 12 hours?
Meaning average speed of about 70 km/h. Makes sense if they have to drive slowly through the once densely populated areas.
Post by: IKEA on April 06, 2016, 05:38:33 PM
I was thinking about doing this the other day. I also wanted to see if all the details fit together. One thing we can do with this info is to calculate the average speeds of the vehicles they have used.Maybe the Silent World cruise ship fuel is less efficient, hence slower engine, hence slower ship.
The paddlewheeler: 300 km, 20 locks on the waterway (let's say about 10 min for each, total of 3,5-4 hours off the travel time), total travel time 11 hours
Meaning average speed of about 22-23 knots (when taking the locking sequences into account). Plausible, but kinda unrealistic like the whole waterway.
Viking Line ship: 220 km, total travel time 16 hours
Meaning average speed of about 7,5 knots. This makes no sense, the ship must've left close to midnight or something, as big ships like that tend to have average speed of about 20 knots.
The train from Björköfjärden to Mora: 430 km, total travel time 4-5 hours?
Meaning average speed of about 90-110 km/h. Realistic.
The train from Mora to Malmö: 800 km, total travel time 12 hours?
Meaning average speed of about 70 km/h. Makes sense if they have to drive slowly through the once densely populated areas.
Post by: |Yucca| on April 06, 2016, 06:23:47 PM
Maybe the Silent World cruise ship fuel is less efficient, hence slower engine, hence slower ship.
Maybe.
Although I'm not so sure how much we should analyse the timber cruiser really. The whole idea of using a passenger ship to transport logs is really stupid anyway as there's hundreds of better suited vessels available. To me it seems it was just used as a way to make pun usage of Viking Line's name. The ship is also drawn to be about twice as big as it should be, even if the very existence of it wasn't weird enough.
We have no indication of the departure time, so either it was around sunset or much later. It's not really important though, as I was merely checking if the speeds of the vehicles where realistic. As long as the average speed isn't considerably more than it would be in real life, everything is fine really. Slower speeds can always be explained with other occurrences, like later departure time and stopping at some point or driving slower for any reason.
Post by: Róisín on April 06, 2016, 11:33:35 PM
Post by: Unlos on April 07, 2016, 05:27:04 AM
I was thinking about doing this the other day. I also wanted to see if all the details fit together. One thing we can do with this info is to calculate the average speeds of the vehicles they have used.Interesting! We can always say the timber cruiser loaded timber for a while before it left. Or as you suggest, refrain from analyzing too closely as it IMO works best as a visual, emotional symbol of the lost old civilization meeting the present post-apocalyptic one. Trip from Mora to Malmö takes according to this lady (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=150) approx 16 hours, meaning about 50 kmp which is a pretty slow train. Oh well.
(snip...)
Letizia, Luth, Urbicande, Yuu, Purplewyrm:
Thank you!! (Insert happy blushing emoticon here)
Post by: SectoBoss on April 07, 2016, 08:01:45 AM
Maybe the Silent World cruise ship fuel is less efficient, hence slower engine, hence slower ship.
I think vehicles in the new world run on batteries, so unless they just go slower to keep them charged for longer I don't think this would be the case.
Post by: |Yucca| on April 07, 2016, 02:46:42 PM
Trip from Mora to Malmö takes according to this lady (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=150) approx 16 hours, meaning about 50 kmp which is a pretty slow train. Oh well.
Oh, I had totally missed that. I was wondering why there was such an estimate in the timeline document.
I suppose they just have to drive slowly through the once populated areas to not make too much noise. The tracks could also be in a bad shape as it's pretty dangerous to do maintenance work in the silent lands.
A possible reason might be caution in the dark, if they are making some of the trip before dawn or after sunset. And the little paddlewheeler might not be as fast as the big Viking Line ship?
I'm not sure if I read this right, but have you mixed the vessels? The paddlwheeeler's average speed is borderline too fast to be realistic. Timbercruiser on the other hand is too slow, but as mentioned above there can be multiple reasons for it. It's trip is also across the open sea, so no need to be cautious.
Post by: Róisín on April 07, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Post by: IKEA on April 07, 2016, 10:36:34 PM
I think vehicles in the new world run on batteries, so unless they just go slower to keep them charged for longer I don't think this would be the case.If the vehicles do run on batteries, how are they charged? I'm picturing a massive room full of kittens running on treadmills.
Post by: Athena on April 07, 2016, 11:31:49 PM
If the vehicles do run on batteries, how are they charged? I'm picturing a massive room full of kittens running on treadmills.
That's how I would do it! Now you're thinking with kittens. ;)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 07, 2016, 11:59:47 PM
If the vehicles do run on batteries, how are they charged? I'm picturing a massive room full of kittens running on treadmills.
In Iceland they do it cheaply and quickly with geothermal systems (which is why electricity is so prevalent across the Known World - most of the tech came from Iceland after it ended its quarantine). Outside of Iceland small scale generators burning whatever comes to hand - which I believe is how the Cat Tank is powered.
Post by: urbicande on April 08, 2016, 12:05:11 AM
If the vehicles do run on batteries, how are they charged? I'm picturing a massive room full of kittens running on treadmills.
Word of Minna is that the Known World has better battery tech and can generate electricity from heat much better than we can. That's what powers the Catttank
Post by: Athena on April 08, 2016, 12:21:12 AM
Word of Minna is that the Known World has better battery tech and can generate electricity from heat much better than we can. That's what powers the Catttank
Energy from heat? That means it is using cat power! It gathers heat from concentrated cuteness and uses it for power! Headcanon confirmed
Post by: Laufey on April 08, 2016, 02:58:45 AM
Now you're thinking with kittens. ;)
I approve of this reference.
Post by: SectoBoss on April 08, 2016, 11:32:54 AM
Gotta love the predicament the man and his cat have gotten into, by the way...
Post by: Rabbit on April 08, 2016, 03:34:37 PM
So, the new info page seems to indicate that trolls can adapt to their environment as they grow, which is interesting. And also our first look at some leviathans, which look as cool as I'd hoped!
Gotta love the predicament the man and his cat have gotten into, by the way...
The real question now is, what the heck kind of environment produced the splamps?
Post by: SectoBoss on April 08, 2016, 03:54:12 PM
The real question now is, what the heck kind of environment produced the splamps?
Never mutate on a full bladder.
Post by: Rabbit on April 08, 2016, 04:31:33 PM
Never mutate on a full bladder.
Okay, ew.
Post by: Eriaror on April 08, 2016, 04:34:14 PM
The real question now is, what the heck kind of environment produced the splamps?
Never mutate on a full bladder.Therefore we can conclude that the environment in question was a cinema.
Post by: SectoBoss on April 08, 2016, 04:42:28 PM
Okay, ew.Sorry not sorry xD
Therefore we can conclude that the environment in question was a cinema.It all makes sense! ;D
Post by: urbicande on April 11, 2016, 04:10:51 PM
Energy from heat? That means it is using cat power! It gathers heat from concentrated cuteness and uses it for power! Headcanon confirmed
You've heard, perhaps, that people often describe the sound of an engine as a purr? Clearly this is more true in Y90 than it is today
Post by: Yuuago on April 12, 2016, 11:08:12 AM
So, everyone has an animal spirit, even if they don't know it. Interesting.
Quote
Coming up this Thursday: the new support wallpaper illustration, which means I'll post the current one for all of you to enjoy for free. After that there's a few finished little illustrations that'll be posted as filler content, so do check in once or twice a week and you'll have something new to tide you over until the 29th.
I wonder what the extra illustrations will be. Anybody want to guess?
And that reminds me of something I was wondering - does anybody know if there's an archive/index somewhere of, say, previous vote bait drawings, and the extra illustrations that get posted in author notes, and so on?
Post by: Laufey on April 12, 2016, 11:11:14 AM
509 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=509)
So, everyone has an animal spirit, even if they don't know it. Interesting.
Except for Finns, those heathens.
Post by: Yuuago on April 12, 2016, 11:15:04 AM
Except for Finns, those heathens.
Yes, well, they might be weird heathens, but they're not godless (and/or spirit-less) heathens. ;p They know what side their bread is buttered on, at least!
Post by: Unlos on April 12, 2016, 03:04:03 PM
509 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=509)
So, everyone has an animal spirit, even if they don't know it. Interesting.
I wonder what the extra illustrations will be. Anybody want to guess?
And that reminds me of something I was wondering - does anybody know if there's an archive/index somewhere of, say, previous vote bait drawings, and the extra illustrations that get posted in author notes, and so on?
Well... The extra goodies have become somewhat sparse, but here's a list of previous ones (quoting myself ehe):
Because I always have to search for these by clicking each and every page, here are links to Minnas various in-blog pictures:
Captain Sigrun (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=11)
Braidy portrait (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=20))
Christmas card (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=33)
Lalli and Braidy pin-ups (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=35)
Colour experiments (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=40)
Birthday hooray (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=41)
Character portraits 1 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=42)
Hiveworks hooray (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=43)
Onni preview (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=67)
Onni the mage (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=72)
Derelict airport (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=143)
Most of the earlier aRTD vote baits were compiled by Minna in her ssss countdown blog (http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=1). I remember a few sneak peaks of of ssss panels as vote baits, but then that dried up, too. I think she said she didn't really need them anymore.
Then there's also her very pretty gallery (http://minnasundberg.fi/gallery.php)
Post by: JoB on April 13, 2016, 03:01:05 PM
I wonder what the extra illustrations will be. Anybody want to guess?Weeeeell (https://twitter.com/SSSScomic/status/716025821148946432) ...
Post by: Helia on April 13, 2016, 03:36:00 PM
Weeeeell (https://twitter.com/SSSScomic/status/716025821148946432) ...
That will be the new wallpaper. But Minna promised to post other little illustrations too :3
There was a drawing of a certain stern looking owl (https://twitter.com/SSSScomic/status/700782860815327232) - it would be soooo good to see that in larger resolution.
Post by: Yuuago on April 18, 2016, 11:52:02 AM
The extra illustrations are the miniprints! : D
It's nice to have a digital version of these.
She changed the vote bait, too. When did that happen, today?
Post by: Kiraly on April 18, 2016, 12:29:13 PM
http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?extra=2
The extra illustrations are the miniprints! : D
It's nice to have a digital version of these.
She changed the vote bait, too. When did that happen, today?
Ooh, it's nice to see those! I didn't get the prints and I regret it, they're lovely! And ooh, new vote bait...I wonder if it's a rough panel for something we'll see soon?
Post by: SectoBoss on April 18, 2016, 02:22:57 PM
http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?extra=2
The extra illustrations are the miniprints! : D
It's nice to have a digital version of these.
I can't be the only one who thinks that it looks a bit like Emil's been left behind by the rest of the cleansers, can I? ;D
Post by: Yuuago on April 18, 2016, 02:23:50 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks that it looks a bit like Emil's been left behind by the rest of the cleansers, can I? ;D
Not what I had originally thought, but now that you mention it... ;p
Post by: Kiraly on April 18, 2016, 02:42:25 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks that it looks a bit like Emil's been left behind by the rest of the cleansers, can I? ;D
Awww! I didn't see it that way before but now I do. I was thinking the trails of what appear to be smoke in the background were awfully far away from him. I can totally see the other cleansers assigning him to watch the camp
Post by: urbicande on April 18, 2016, 03:16:00 PM
Awww! I didn't see it that way before but now I do. I was thinking the trails of what appear to be smoke in the background were awfully far away from him. I can totally see the other cleansers assigning him to watch the campso they could get away from him for a while.
That or the set charges and then retreated to a safer distance.
Post by: Tr on April 28, 2016, 07:27:49 PM
I love how weak and worn-out Lalli looks before he regains his luonto, and then how alive and awake he looks afterwards. I don't think we'very seen Lali look so confident in a long time.
Also, the page is darker at the top and lighter at the bottom. I don't know if the symbolism was intentional, but it's cool.
(http://i.imgur.com/hoHFewf.jpg?1)
EDIT: Yes. This comment could be summarized as, "EEEEEEEE! LALLI'S BACK! and beautiful artwork, Minna". I admit it.
Post by: Yuuago on April 28, 2016, 07:35:20 PM
The new page is so pretty!
I know eh, bloody gorgeous. *_*
Eeee I'm so glad we're starting a new chapter! ...I might've become a bit tired of waiting, heh.
Post by: Elleth on April 28, 2016, 08:13:37 PM
I know eh, bloody gorgeous. *_*
Eeee I'm so glad we're starting a new chapter! ...I might've become a bit tired of waiting, heh.
Just so we don't get too used to regular content, it's the weekend now, so the waiting's not quite over yet... :P
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 28, 2016, 08:22:50 PM
Post by: Mayabird on April 28, 2016, 08:26:11 PM
Reflecting on the prior page with the new chapter opening, it might be nice to have a breather chapter without an excessive amount of excitement after the previous nail-biter.
Post by: Yuuago on April 28, 2016, 08:44:11 PM
Just so we don't get too used to regular content, it's the weekend now, so the waiting's not quite over yet... :P
...OH RIGHT whoops. It's still Thursday over here, so I... forgot. ;p But hey, waiting a few days won't hurt anybody.
Post by: Tr on April 28, 2016, 08:48:24 PM
Yey! Lalli back on his feet for the first time in... two days is it? ;DYes, but it feels like months. ;)
Do those on the luonto mean anything or is it just spirit sparkles?I think they are just awesome spirit sparkles. Like so:
(http://orig03.deviantart.net/fe8c/f/2015/267/8/f/fabulous_lalli_by_revealedfromthevoy-d9aqyfy.png)
Post by: Elleth on April 28, 2016, 11:29:48 PM
(Unrelated, but I sort of want a panel on Monday that involves Lalli waking up in the real world and needing to make up on two days' of missed food and drink, and everyone including Mikkel going bug-eyed over Twig's appetite.)
Post by: SectoBoss on April 29, 2016, 05:10:46 AM
I keep wondering on how to read this page, beyond the obvious "ailing Lalli gets his Luonto back and recovers"... namely, where Lalli is. Last I think we saw him was in his Haven after Onni drove the ghosts away, while the dark watercolour background and the stars on this page especially remind me much more of the other layer of the dreamworld? Did Lalli come much closer to fading away than any of us realized?I suppose it's quite possible that after the ghost attack he was in quite a precarious position (after all, they did attack when his luonto was away and therefore not in best shape to start with).
Also, am I the only one who keeps looking at the chapter cover and seeing the way Emil's belt and right arm perfectly merge into one another as Emil having two left arms? (or, I suppose, one black-coloured left arm and a human hand hanging from his belt...)
Post by: Kiraly on April 29, 2016, 08:11:03 AM
Also, am I the only one who keeps looking at the chapter cover and seeing the way Emil's belt and right arm perfectly merge into one another as Emil having two left arms? (or, I suppose, one black-coloured left arm and a human hand hanging from his belt...)
Uh...well, I definitely didn't see it like that before, but now I do. *stares* Weird.
Post by: urbicande on April 29, 2016, 09:10:42 AM
Also, am I the only one who keeps looking at the chapter cover and seeing the way Emil's belt and right arm perfectly merge into one another as Emil having two left arms? (or, I suppose, one black-coloured left arm and a human hand hanging from his belt...)
I hadn't seen it before, and now I can't unsee it.
Post by: urbicande on April 29, 2016, 01:24:12 PM
I had just managed to convince my brain that that's not what's in the picture, and now I'm seeing it again... thanks. x)
But more importantly, today's page is so beautiful. ♥
isn't it just? It's probably one of the simpler pages Minna has put up but it's just gorgeous.
Post by: Tr on May 02, 2016, 08:41:18 PM
I'm getting the feeling that the actual Lalli-awakening scene will be the exact opposite of this. And that it will make me sad.
"I don't need you to translate for me" and augh, Lalli's face in that panel! ;__; but hey, this may be a sign of character developement~ since when has Lalli wanted to understand other human beings?
Post by: Ana Nymus on May 02, 2016, 08:51:16 PM
So, the latest page. It was a dream sequence after all.
I'm getting the feeling that the actual Lalli-awakening scene will be the exact opposite of this. And that it will make me sad.
"I don't need you to translate for me" and augh, Lalli's face in that panel! ;__; but hey, this may be a sign of character developement~ since when has Lalli wanted to understand other human beings?
I know. It breaks my heart that Lalli probably won't get a welcoming like this, though there's a good chance Emil'll be there waiting for him to wake up.
(And did anyone else notice kitty jumping into the trash can in the fourth(?) panel? I wonder if that's her analog to Reynir's cutting-off-the-braid comment...)
Post by: Tr on May 02, 2016, 09:05:41 PM
I know. It breaks my heart that Lalli probably won't get a welcoming like this, though there's a good chance Emil'll be there waiting for him to wake up.I didn't notice that until you pointed it out ::) yes! (Lalli wants to be recognized as the Boss Cat in the tank)
(And did anyone else notice kitty jumping into the trash can in the fourth(?) panel? I wonder if that's her analog to Reynir's cutting-off-the-braid comment...)
And I hope Emil will be there when Lalli wakes up. But what if... what if... what if he is too exhausted from the previous night and is still sleeping or something? :'(
Post by: Kiraly on May 03, 2016, 11:38:26 AM
But what if... what if... what if he is too exhausted from the previous night and is still sleeping or something? :'(
I agree though, I'm already heartbroken in anticipation of what will happen when Lalli wakes up. I totally cracked up at Reynir and the kitty though, hehe!
Post by: urbicande on May 03, 2016, 04:03:13 PM
Post by: Aansero on May 03, 2016, 04:44:59 PM
I think some stems from being brought up by Onni telling him that it's a job he's not allowed to do badly, but there is definite pride in there also. He seems very content to know himself that he's good at his job, and if people don't believe it then that's their problem not his. Each time he's been questioned he doesn't stop to argue with anyone, he just goes out and solves it, and afterwards doesn't seek validation. Not because he's too shy or whatever, just because he doesn't care.
So the dream: either it's just one of those random dreams where random stuff happens and it's not related to what Lalli wants, or it's himself stroking his own ego. From a Doylist POV I think the second is more likely. He wouldn't want this scenario in real life (not that it's possible in real life), but in this little fantasy, yes, yes he is fantastic, isn't he?
Post by: Tr on May 03, 2016, 05:21:40 PM
But he does take badly to people suggesting he's not good enough.So... he cares when people suggest he's not good enough, but doesn't care if they believe he isn't good enough?
[snip]
He seems very content to know himself that he's good at his job, and if people don't believe it then that's their problem not his.
My personal theory is that he does want praise, he wants the team to appreciate him more, and by the gods, he wants that stupid braid gone.
Reynir's line is the greatest. ;D
Post by: Haiz on May 03, 2016, 05:28:57 PM
yesterday's page, with emil being completely ecstatic about Lalli waking up, was completely believable and nobody even considered it might be a dream. but today we have like this lightbulb moment and everyone collectively going 'ooooooooooooooh' and we have this massive insight in what lalli dreams about like. literally
- SIGRUN RESPEctING HIS BOUNDARIES
(- but emil holding his shoulders is ok?? he's comfortable enough to let this messy swede guy do this?? IM NOT IMPLYING ANYTHING BUt,, LISTEN,,,)
- confirmation that he did his job well. he's a perfectionist??
- A FEAST like yes eating comfortably maybe yes please?? and if cookies are involved all the better
- no longer depending on tuuri to understand? like i think independence is really important to him and the language barrier is not something he can overcome on his own and that's really frustrating
- IS HE JEALOUS OF REYNIR'S HAIR iS THAT IT
- ah yes kitty in the trash right where it belongs. this tank is not big enough for the both of us
i was about to wonder if maybe this entire chapter is going to be a lalli dream scenario but it almost looks like from the border at the bottom of the page that maybe he's gonna wake up for Real now.......
(ALSO. LALLI SMILING FOR THE SECOND TIME IN THE ENTIRE COMIC. HOLY FRICK)
Post by: Aansero on May 03, 2016, 05:58:24 PM
I disagree, I think this is exactly how he would want things to go in real life.
So... he cares when people suggest he's not good enough, but doesn't care if they believe he isn't good enough?
My personal theory is that he does want praise, he wants the team to appreciate him more, and by the gods, he wants that stupid braid gone.
Reynir's line is the greatest. ;D
lol, you're right, I didn't think that one through. Maybe it's more that he doesn't seek emotional validation, but he does personally care that he gets it right. So when Tuuri suggests he's done a bad job he gets all affronted, and he definitely cares when he did get something wrong, but when he shows he's right after all or fixes it, he does it for himself and not for the other person. He doesn't want attention on himself but he does want personal satisfaction of a job well done.
I think Reynir's line is Lalli being smug that Reynir is stupid and doesn't know anything, haha, but yes. Brilliant line. And brilliant expression on Reynir's part :D
Post by: Tr on May 03, 2016, 06:45:38 PM
lol, you're right, I didn't think that one through. Maybe it's more that he doesn't seek emotional validation, but he does personally care that he gets it right. So when Tuuri suggests he's done a bad job he gets all affronted, and he definitely cares when he did get something wrong, but when he shows he's right after all or fixes it, he does it for himself and not for the other person. He doesn't want attention on himself but he does want personal satisfaction of a job well done.Thank you for the clarification! This makes much more sense~ I see what you mean.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on May 03, 2016, 08:40:04 PM
(ALSO. LALLI SMILING FOR THE SECOND TIME IN THE ENTIRE COMIC. HOLY FRICK)You should know Lalli's smiles have been known to cause such intense squee-raptures in the fans that Minna has to ration them to prevent mass hospitalizations.
Post by: viola on May 03, 2016, 08:43:52 PM
Post by: Ana Nymus on May 03, 2016, 10:17:08 PM
Post by: Kiraly on May 03, 2016, 10:19:46 PM
POOR LALLI. My heart is now broken. I just want to give him a hug!
I know, so do I!!! But he would probably hate it if I gave him a hug, so I want Emil to give him a hug for me.
Post by: Athena on May 03, 2016, 11:16:19 PM
I know, so do I!!! But he would probably hate it if I gave him a hug, so I want Emil to give him a hug for me.
Even lalli ships the ship!
Post by: SectoBoss on May 04, 2016, 05:48:11 AM
(cover up his mouth with your finger or something and you might see what I saw)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 06, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
"All this time" has been three days ;D
Post by: Q on May 06, 2016, 09:04:53 AM
Reynir from today's update - "You know after all this time I probably couldn't stop calling her kitty".
"All this time" has been three days ;D
Really! Come on, Braidy, I renamed my last cat after years...
Post by: urbicande on May 06, 2016, 09:38:22 AM
The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter,
It isn't just one of your holiday games;
You may think at first I'm as mad as a hatter
When I tell you, a cat must have THREE DIFFERENT NAMES.
First of all, there's the name that the family use daily,
Such as Peter, Augustus, Alonzo or James,
Such as Victor or Jonathan, George or Bill Bailey--
All of them sensible everyday names.
There are fancier names if you think they sound sweeter,
Some for the gentlemen, some for the dames:
Such as Plato, Admetus, Electra, Demeter--
But all of them sensible everyday names.
But I tell you, a cat needs a name that's particular,
A name that's peculiar, and more dignified,
Else how can he keep up his tail perpendicular,
Or spread out his whiskers, or cherish his pride?
Of names of this kind, I can give you a quorum,
Such as Munkustrap, Quaxo, or Coricopat,
Such as Bombalurina, or else Jellylorum-
Names that never belong to more than one cat.
But above and beyond there's still one name left over,
And that is the name that you never will guess;
The name that no human research can discover--
But THE CAT HIMSELF KNOWS, and will never confess.
When you notice a cat in profound meditation,
The reason, I tell you, is always the same:
His mind is engaged in a rapt contemplation
Of the thought, of the thought, of the thought of his name:
His ineffable effable
Effanineffable
Deep and inscrutable singular Name.
Post by: Róisín on May 06, 2016, 12:56:23 PM
Post by: urbicande on May 06, 2016, 01:03:28 PM
Yep, first thing I thought of. Also his poem 'The Addressing of Cats'. Which they might consider for Lalli about now!
I'm really tempted to rewrite the show now.
(Except then I'd have to listen to it and I don't actually like the music)
Post by: urbicande on May 06, 2016, 03:51:31 PM
http://www.arkinspace.com/2011/04/manul-cat-that-time-forgot.html
Post by: Rykka on May 06, 2016, 07:50:34 PM
Post by: Tr on May 08, 2016, 08:10:42 PM
I know, so do I!!! But he would probably hate it if I gave him a hug, so I want Emil to give him a hug for me.[whispers] The way Monday's page looks, we might be in luck on Tuesday! [/whispers]
Because Emil finally noticed Lalli is awake! And he looks so happy! And I was so worried that he wouldn't be excited and now all is right with the universe!
Sort of. There are still plenty of ways Minna could break my heart; Lalli becoming a kade or Reynir getting the rash illness, for instance.
And that is some excellent sulking Lalli is doing. 10/10. ;D
Post by: Ana Nymus on May 08, 2016, 08:32:43 PM
[whispers] The way Monday's page looks, we might be in luck on Tuesday! [/whispers]
Because Emil finally noticed Lalli is awake! And he looks so happy! And I was so worried that he wouldn't be excited and now all is right with the universe!
*crosses fingers for happy reunion on Tuesday page*
Also, where is Kitty going? Or Kisa, Kisu, Kissekatt, Pusekatt, Missekat...
Post by: Juniper on May 08, 2016, 08:49:07 PM
Post by: Tr on May 08, 2016, 08:59:32 PM
So there's no flag next to the "hey!" meaning it's a mystery who said it but does that also mean it's more likely it's Mikkel or Sigrun who said it considering they were the most recent speaking ?I'm going with Emil, because
a) he looked so excited in the third panel, it stands to reason that he will greet his friend!
b) most of Disqus seems to think so
c) I will be sad if it isn't
d) half the fandom might explode if it is anyone other than Emil. >:D
Post by: Juniper on May 08, 2016, 09:33:12 PM
I'm going with Emil, becauseI want it to be Emil too, like so bad it hurts for so many reasons but I'm wondering, why no flag ?!?
a) he looked so excited in the third panel, it stands to reason that he will greet his friend!
b) most of Disqus seems to think so
c) I will be sad if it isn't
d) half the fandom might explode if it is anyone other than Emil. >:D
Post by: Kiraly on May 08, 2016, 09:52:37 PM
I want it to be Emil too, like so bad it hurts for so many reasons but I'm wondering, why no flag ?!?
Maybe because Minna wants to keep it a surprise until tomorrow? Plus I imagine 'hey' is pretty easily understood, Lalli wouldn't need a translator for that.
(I also really want it to be Emil, so I may be a little biased.)
Post by: Juniper on May 08, 2016, 10:00:37 PM
Maybe because Minna wants to keep it a surprise until tomorrow? Plus I imagine 'hey' is pretty easily understood, Lalli wouldn't need a translator for that.I think we're all biased and want it to be Emil for more or less similar reasons x3
(I also really want it to be Emil, so I may be a little biased.)
Mayhaps I just don't wanna get my hopes up too much and be crushed tomorrow in case it isn't Emil.
Post by: Tr on May 08, 2016, 10:06:02 PM
I think we're all biased and want it to be Emil for more or less similar reasons x3It's too late for me. If it isn't Emil, my hopes and dreams will be crushed. The chapter cover is bothering me more and more... that "Lalli is separated from the team" symbolism... ;__;
Mayhaps I just don't wanna get my hopes up too much and be crushed tomorrow in case it isn't Emil.
Post by: urbicande on May 09, 2016, 11:26:32 AM
I'm going with Emil, because
a) he looked so excited in the third panel, it stands to reason that he will greet his friend!
b) most of Disqus seems to think so
c) I will be sad if it isn't
d) half the fandom might explode if it is anyone other than Emil. >:D
I'm gonna go with Tuuri, because she actually speaks Finnish. (Although then she should have said "Hei")
Post by: Juniper on May 09, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
I'm gonna go with Tuuri, because she actually speaks Finnish. (Although then she should have said "Hei")The thing is I was just re-reading some of chapter 2 and at one point there's a language Flag just for Tuuri to shoot Lalli's name at him to get his attention (at the part where she wants him to do a Mage demonstration to prove to Emil that he's Mage) so now I'm just all sorts of puzzled over who it could be without the flag. I'm going to go with intentional suspension, maybe.
Post by: urbicande on May 09, 2016, 12:20:52 PM
The thing is I was just re-reading some of chapter 2 and at one point there's a language Flag just for Tuuri to shoot Lalli's name at him to get his attention (at the part where she wants him to do a Mage demonstration to prove to Emil that he's Mage) so now I'm just all sorts of puzzled over who it could be without the flag. I'm going to go with intentional suspension, maybe.
Actually, on the latest page (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=517), other than Mikkel saying that it's time for lunch, nobody has a flag in that conversation.
Post by: Juniper on May 09, 2016, 12:44:18 PM
Actually, on the latest page (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=517), other than Mikkel saying that it's time for lunch, nobody has a flag in that conversation.Touché, I suppose that's a good excuse for me to keep hoping it's Emil saying 'Hey!' :3c
Post by: Tr on May 09, 2016, 08:37:12 PM
but
AUGH LALLI NOOOOO!
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/29b6918e95abcb3c7129fde1f895660e/tumblr_nt51powJkO1r6soqlo6_r1_400.png)
Post by: Kiraly on May 09, 2016, 08:39:24 PM
So it was Emil saying, "Hey". I thoroughly approve of Emil's actions
but
AUGH LALLI NOOOOO!
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/29b6918e95abcb3c7129fde1f895660e/tumblr_nt51powJkO1r6soqlo6_r1_400.png)
*hugs* I KNOW!!! It's like Minna found the perfect way to meet all of our hopes (it was Emil! He was worried about Lalli and excited to see him awake!) and then utterly crush them all in one page. :'(
Post by: Tr on May 09, 2016, 09:02:37 PM
*hugs* I KNOW!!! It's like Minna found the perfect way to meet all of our hopes (it was Emil! He was worried about Lalli and excited to see him awake!) and then utterly crush them all in one page. :'(*hugs back* Minna is so good at that. ;__;
I want to say the optimistic thing: "This could be the set up for character and relationship developement~ it can't all be happy fluff!" But then what if it isn't? ;o;
Oh great Minna, please let this be resolved by the end of the chapter. ;__;
Post by: Juniper on May 09, 2016, 10:17:34 PM
*hugs back* Minna is so good at that. ;__;
I want to say the optimistic thing: "This could be the set up for character and relationship developement~ it can't all be happy fluff!" But then what if it isn't? ;o;
Oh great Minna, please let this be resolved by the end of the chapter. ;__;
Sighhh, I was even thinking about how the only character that I've really noticed any significant character development in so far is Emil and how badly I wanna see some significant in the others. I think at least in the long run this is setting up for some character development in Lalli (and maybe some of the others too !!) but I suppose just like real life significant character development doesn't come without some pain / difficulty / conflict.
Post by: urbicande on May 09, 2016, 10:30:28 PM
Or, more specifically, ,Sigrun with Tuuri translating.
Post by: Juniper on May 09, 2016, 11:10:07 PM
Tuuri is gonna have to have a talking-to to that boy.
Or, more specifically, ,Sigrun with Tuuri translating.
See that's another thing, I kinda hope we get some character development from Tuuri out of this situation too. Maybe. Somehow.
Also, *realizes this is my 100th post* *runs off to the promotion thread*
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 10, 2016, 12:28:00 AM
Bad scout! *sprrrsss sprrrsss* Bad!
But seriously, I hope Lalli sorts out his issues before the next troll attack. Or maybe the next troll attack will sort out his issues for him?
Post by: Mélusine on May 10, 2016, 05:15:50 AM
*hugs* I KNOW!!! It's like Minna found the perfect way to meet all of our hopes (it was Emil! He was worried about Lalli and excited to see him awake!) and then utterly crush them all in one page. :'(Minna always do that ;) We can imagine a lot of things, she'll come with an other one to surprise us.
Post by: Minutia_R on May 10, 2016, 02:17:42 PM
We've seen that Lalli got his Luonto back, but what about Onni? He sent his out pretty far, and last we saw his actual body it was pretty unresponsive. Is he OK?
Post by: Juniper on May 10, 2016, 02:35:18 PM
Okay, so, this might be a silly question or one that was previously discussed and I missed, but--
We've seen that Lalli got his Luonto back, but what about Onni? He sent his out pretty far, and last we saw his actual body it was pretty unresponsive. Is he OK?
I'm wondering all sorts of things about how Onni's doing right now, seriously he just had his ear cut off what's he doing right now ?!?
Post by: Lacunae Seff on May 10, 2016, 02:48:08 PM
But someone commented on how Onni's Luonto looks almost like a real owl, not the kind of fluorescent spirit of Lalli's lynx, and it remind me: Onni is 27, and has enough experience to have taken Lalli as his apprentice. I think someone point out earlier that Onni was quite a powerful Noita, and I believe they're right. Besides the lack of ear, I don't think he expend the last couple of days in an almost coma state like Lalli. He must have been tired, yes, but if his Luonto was able to manifest that well, I think he had enough power for it, and not to go down like Lalli. So (I want to believe) he is probably getting lots of sup and sugary-water.... and knowing how much he worries... shouldn't he already contacted the crew?
With that in mind he is either A) unconscious like Lalli (I doubt it); b) technical difficulties like radio stopped working(????); c) if the murderghost are not following the crew, maybe they went after Onni?; d)The "thing" that was after the Hotakainen family managed to find Onni after such a display of power and went after him, so he's dealing with that.
...hope we get a new page about Onni soon.
Post by: Aki on May 10, 2016, 03:11:00 PM
Sorry for Lalli and Emil, sorry for the honestly not so nice crew dynamics that are setting into place, sorry for all the things that have led to anyone thinking a bowl of soup to the face is an appropriate reaction (yes I've read through all the comments on the page discussing why Lalli would have done such a thing) and just... there's so many things I'm cringing at lately and no matter how (and with whom) I discuss these things, they can't be explained away or seen in a positive light until Minna gives us new material.
Idk, it feels like Minna is getting into a very awkward impasse with social dynamics and I sure hope she'll find a way out without handwaving this away.
Post by: Kiraly on May 10, 2016, 03:15:21 PM
Okay, so, this might be a silly question or one that was previously discussed and I missed, but--
We've seen that Lalli got his Luonto back, but what about Onni? He sent his out pretty far, and last we saw his actual body it was pretty unresponsive. Is he OK?
Oh hey, nice to see you around the forum!
I think part of the difference with Onni is, he didn't send his Luonto, but actually took on its form (I don't know how that works, but it was definitely stated somewhere that it was Onni himself, not just his Luonto). So since he wasn't actually separated from his Luonto like Lalli was, it won't have the same effect. I imagine in terms of fatigue it would be more tiring than ordinary dream walking (since he did fight off the ghosts) but wouldn't completely exhaust him like being without his Luonto would. I am a little worried about how he's handling his hair-and-ear cut though, it makes me very curious to know about how injuries in the spirit world affect physical bodies.
This update just kinda makes me feel sorry.
Sorry for Lalli and Emil, sorry for the honestly not so nice crew dynamics that are setting into place, sorry for all the things that have led to anyone thinking a bowl of soup to the face is an appropriate reaction (yes I've read through all the comments on the page discussing why Lalli would have done such a thing) and just... there's so many things I'm cringing at lately and no matter how (and with whom) I discuss these things, they can't be explained away or seen in a positive light until Minna gives us new material.
Idk, it feels like Minna is getting into a very awkward impasse with social dynamics and I sure hope she'll find a way out without handwaving this away.
Yeah. At this point I'm bracing for things to get a lot worse between the crew before they get better. I guess we're looking at the more subtle dangers of the Silent World, because trouble between crewmates could destroy the mission just as easily as a troll attack. (If not more easily).
Post by: Lazy8 on May 10, 2016, 04:55:10 PM
This update just kinda makes me feel sorry.
Sorry for Lalli and Emil, sorry for the honestly not so nice crew dynamics that are setting into place, sorry for all the things that have led to anyone thinking a bowl of soup to the face is an appropriate reaction (yes I've read through all the comments on the page discussing why Lalli would have done such a thing) and just... there's so many things I'm cringing at lately and no matter how (and with whom) I discuss these things, they can't be explained away or seen in a positive light until Minna gives us new material.
Idk, it feels like Minna is getting into a very awkward impasse with social dynamics and I sure hope she'll find a way out without handwaving this away.
From what I've seen most of the people speculating on the reasons behind Lalli's behavior have floated around various explanations, but have still acknowledged that said explanations are not an excuse. But... yeah. Every subsequent page of this chapter has been making me feel worse. From "Lalli's finally got his luonto back" to "Wait a minute, everyone is cringeworthily OOC" to "Oh, it was a dream" to "Please, please someone notice the scout!" to "Mikkel, would it kill you to take two seconds to tell the others he's woken up?" to... well, this. Poor Emil, he did not deserve that.
Now there's a part of me screaming that Minna promised us friendship; when will this team start getting along already!? :'(
Post by: Tr on May 10, 2016, 05:07:38 PM
Yeah. At this point I'm bracing for things to get a lot worse between the crew before they get better. I guess we're looking at the more subtle dangers of the Silent World, because trouble between crewmates could destroy the mission just as easily as a troll attack. (If not more easily).Mrrh. Yes, indeed.
Now there's a part of me screaming that Minna promised us friendship; when will this team start getting along already!? :'(I am still hoping for a happy ending to the chapter! One with lots of friendship and forgiveness. Or maybe even just a LITTLE friendship and forgiveness. :/ And if not this chapter, then the next one. Sometime soon, hopefully.
Post by: Tr on May 10, 2016, 09:13:24 PM
Sighhh, I was even thinking about how the only character that I've really noticed any significant character development in so far is Emil and how badly I wanna see some significant in the others. I think at least in the long run this is setting up for some character development in Lalli (and maybe some of the others too !!) but I suppose just like real life significant character development doesn't come without some pain / difficulty / conflict.In short: you called it. ;)
Even though I keep posting sad reactions to angsty-Lalli things, I very much approve of realistic and authentic character developement, a thing that does not happen overnight! The author's comment does seem to be confirming that there will be Lalli character developement in the far-off future. Even though it will take a while, I will stick around.
In the meantime, I shall declare all Lalli-Related Character Developement a very important event and clap enthusiastically whenever it happens, :3.
Post by: Juniper on May 10, 2016, 09:36:29 PM
Just think and talk about it idk.
As stated Lalli's personality does stem a lot from his job isolating him from others and from a pretty young age, but I wonder / suspect he was lonely being isolated from other kids like that, I mean even if a kid's neuro atypical and pretty introverted they'll want some human interaction sometimes, play with other kids and what not.
Post by: Minutia_R on May 10, 2016, 11:51:59 PM
I was just worried about Onni because that seemed like a really major piece of magic and we haven't actually seen him since, but you guys are right, he's probably fine.
As far as today's update, it's true that Emil is hurt and confused and angry and lashing out at what looks like the safest target but I would like to submit that: a) The last person whose hair he tried to fix because it was a disgrace was Lalli. He's just showing he cares! b) He's not actually wrong. I don't think Reynir's brushed his hair since he packed himself into that shipping crate, just saying.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 11, 2016, 12:19:48 AM
it's true that Emil is hurt and confused and angry and lashing out at what looks like the safest target but I would like to submit that: a) The last person whose hair he tried to fix because it was a disgrace was Lalli. He's just showing he cares! b) He's not actually wrong. I don't think Reynir's brushed his hair since he packed himself into that shipping crate, just saying.
Also throwing criticism at someone you know won't understand you is probably a good way to safely let off some steam.
Post by: Tr on May 11, 2016, 08:44:36 PM
And yay, radio time approaching. Those wishing to see how Onni fared may be in luck!
But mostly: pretty trees! :D
Post by: Minutia_R on May 11, 2016, 10:22:54 PM
But I am crossing my fingers for Onni to be okay!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 12, 2016, 01:01:04 AM
But I am crossing my fingers for Onni to be okay!
He'll be fine! It'll take more than a chopped ear to take down the Owl Mage! (make him cry, sure... :) )
Lalli looks slightly happier now he's had an explanation and some conversation with someone he can understand.
Post by: Tr on May 12, 2016, 06:44:25 AM
But I am crossing my fingers for Onni to be okay!Me too! I am also crossing my fingers for him not to lecture Lalli, because seriously, the guy has had a bad enough morning already. :-\
Post by: urbicande on May 12, 2016, 09:16:41 AM
Me too! I am also crossing my fingers for him not to lecture Lalli, because seriously, the guy has had a bad enough morning already. :-\
Yeah but you know that Onni is going to lecture him.
Post by: Juniper on May 12, 2016, 01:38:59 PM
Yeah but you know that Onni is going to lecture him.
Probably.
But, what's going on with his ear ?!? How did he react to his ear being cut off ?!? What's going on with the children right now after they cut off his ear ?!?
Post by: Tr on May 12, 2016, 04:00:03 PM
But, what's going on with his ear ?!? How did he react to his ear being cut off ?!? What's going on with the children right now after they cut off his ear ?!?How did he react to his ear being cut off? He probably cried. Except he wasn't crying, he was allergic to having his ear cut off!
As for the children...
Torbjörn: WHAT NO BAD CHILDREN WHAT DID YOU DO?!? *snatches scissors*
Children: We're sorrrryyyyyyyy
Onni: *sobs quietly*
Torbjörn: *gets distracted* Oh okay. *pockets scissors*
Children: ... >:D*pickpocket Torbjörn and regain scissors* >:D
Post by: Juniper on May 12, 2016, 04:27:20 PM
How did he react to his ear being cut off? He probably cried. Except he wasn't crying, he was allergic to having his ear cut off!You know, probably.
As for the children...
Torbjörn: WHAT NO BAD CHILDREN WHAT DID YOU DO?!? *snatches scissors*
Children: We're sorrrryyyyyyyy
Onni: *sobs quietly*
Torbjörn: *gets distracted* Oh okay. *pockets scissors*
Children: ... >:D*pickpocket Torbjörn and regain scissors* >:D
Post by: urbicande on May 12, 2016, 04:48:46 PM
Post by: Juniper on May 12, 2016, 08:36:56 PM
Onni van Gogh?
Looks like his ear is all nicely patched up ! But dang, he sure looks like an owl even more now with his hair like that. Precious owl baby :3c
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 12, 2016, 09:42:04 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on May 12, 2016, 11:24:11 PM
2) And he didn't lecture Lalli.
3) Maybe he will talk to Reynir?
4) Mikkel is a little shit but we all knew that.
Post by: Tr on May 13, 2016, 07:04:05 AM
And Mikkel is my favorite character at the moment. "Hello, I'm here to distract you, what would you like to talk about?" ;D
I bet this is how he was fired from his old job. "Oh, and make sure _____ doesn't see _____, it's supposed to be classified."
Mikkel: "Oh, hello. I'm here to keep you from seeing the _____ that my boss hid in the file cabinet! What would you like to discuss?"
Post by: JoB on May 14, 2016, 05:23:00 PM
I wonder if they have a spray bottle on board?They do (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=225). Also, heavy duty version for mortal sins (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=304).
Post by: Juniper on May 15, 2016, 08:32:48 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 16, 2016, 12:24:09 AM
I don't know about you guys but I made an ungodly squealing noise as soon as Onni asked to talk to Reynir . .
I wouldn't say I squealed, but I'm certainly looking forwards to their conversation. Reynir (and we) might finally get some answers about his mage abilities! (such as they are)
Post by: silverceleb on May 16, 2016, 01:04:32 PM
I feel for that poor owl boy, having only one whole earlobe and too many allergic reactions. Why don't you have time for him, Tuuri? I get it, you are having fun and it's pretty much like when you have the best sleep over ever and then your mom calls to make sure you are wearing your woolen socks because it might get chilly. BUT he cares so so much, he is so worried about you, and he is so lonely. Tuuri please just can't you do this one thing for him really. ;;A;
That said I do enjoy Mikkel's grade A social skills. :----D
Post by: urbicande on May 16, 2016, 04:18:20 PM
I don't know about you guys but I made an ungodly squealing noise as soon as Onni asked to talk to Reynir . .
Yeah, that's going to be interesting, given they've never met in the physical world, only in the Mage chatroom.
Post by: Tr on May 16, 2016, 08:45:54 PM
*Reynir confirmed for favorite character*
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 17, 2016, 12:25:24 AM
Post by: Laufey on May 17, 2016, 12:50:35 AM
He probably expected Onni to be 100% fluent in Icelandic since they spoke without difficulty in the dream world. Presumably he heard Onni speaking perfect Icelandic in their last encounter and Onni heard him speaking fluent Finnish (but is experienced enough not to make linguistic assumptions).
As a Finn who had to learn quite a few new sounds just to be able to say hello in Icelandic (sæll og blessaður/sæl og blessuð) I really feel for the both of them now. Special huh, Reynir please. :'D
Post by: urbicande on May 17, 2016, 09:44:22 AM
As a Finn who had to learn quite a few new sounds just to be able to say hello in Icelandic (sæll og blessaður/sæl og blessuð) I really feel for the both of them now. Special huh, Reynir please. :'D
On the other hand, in the Mage Chatroom, he understood Lalli, too.
Post by: Tr on May 17, 2016, 08:15:36 PM
"Stop apologizing, it's annoying."
"Sorry!"
And yes to Onni and Reynir finding out what the murderghosts are!
Post by: Minutia_R on May 17, 2016, 09:45:56 PM
"Thank you for last night, that was awesome!"
... sorry I guess I had to be the one to say it.
Post by: Juniper on May 17, 2016, 09:49:30 PM
Okay, but ...
"Thank you for last night, that was awesome!"
... sorry I guess I had to be the one to say it.
Pffffft, I just got done mentioning something about that in the shipping thread. Oh Reynir, you dog ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 18, 2016, 12:04:14 AM
Post by: Minutia_R on May 18, 2016, 01:45:15 AM
Also, is it just me or is Lalli giving Reynir the stink-eye in the lower right panel? I mean you can't see his eyes but the way his head is turned and the set of his mouth ... I think he may not like Onni talking to Reynir so much. Especially when once again he can't understand what they're saying.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 18, 2016, 06:34:19 AM
Shipping aside, if someone saves you from murderghosts I don't think it's that much of a stretch to describe what they did as "awesome."
Quite true - I was interpreting Reynir as being excited rather than thankful :)
Post by: Tr on May 18, 2016, 09:51:35 PM
And the murderghosts are human spirits. Yes. *nodnods wisely* Maybe further on in the conversation, Reynir will learn how to actually deal with them.
Post by: Buteo on May 18, 2016, 10:04:52 PM
Post by: Róisín on May 19, 2016, 12:26:33 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 19, 2016, 12:36:17 AM
Post by: Mélusine on May 19, 2016, 04:28:14 AM
I wonder if that first panel is how Onni (and perhaps Lalli) see the world all the time. If so, cool.
I had supposed that this was just how mages saw the world, all or most of it rather than just a narrow band.I agree with Róisín and assume it's not always a gift...
Post by: Róisín on May 19, 2016, 04:31:19 AM
Post by: Helia on May 19, 2016, 04:35:03 AM
Very far from it, I would think, especially in their world.
Just remember what Lalli saw during the train ride...
Post by: Mélusine on May 19, 2016, 04:35:42 AM
Very far from it, I would think, especially in their world.*Nods* It seems cool where Onni is, but... mages have probably no choice to see or not to see things. They're probably just here, and they're able to see more than "normal" people. Including the worst, of course. (Anyway, I like this idea a lot.)
Post by: Tr on May 24, 2016, 08:18:19 PM
I'm keeping an eye out for the next dream sequence and/or possible Reynir-gods interaction!
Post by: Juniper on May 24, 2016, 08:31:29 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 25, 2016, 12:29:50 AM
That poor, poor boy... :D
Post by: Yuuago on May 25, 2016, 12:54:22 AM
Mikkel and Emil come from godless societies, Lalli and Tuuri worship the wrong gods, that only leaves Sigrun to assist Reynir with his religious education.
That poor, poor boy... :D
I hadn't thought of that, but now that you mention it, I'll have to second this. ;p Poor kid!
Post by: Buteo on May 25, 2016, 01:01:34 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 25, 2016, 04:01:59 AM
I would dearly love to see Sigrun teaching Reynir about the Norse gods - through the medium of Mikkel's translation, of course... :'D
"Thor is great! You want to direct all your prayers to Thor!"
"What about Odin?"
"Well I guess Odin is all right, but what kind of warrior lets himself get hung from a tree for days? Thor is the one you should be spending your time on! And Freyja! Freya's good too!"
"But, what if I need help from a non-warrior god?"
"If you keep asking stupid questions I'm not going to share my wisdom with you!"
Post by: Mélusine on May 25, 2016, 05:37:27 AM
Mikkel and Emil come from godless societies, Lalli and Tuuri worship the wrong gods, that only leaves Sigrun to assist Reynir with his religious education.Oh my...
That poor, poor boy... :D
I would dearly love to see Sigrun teaching Reynir about the Norse gods - through the medium of Mikkel's translation, of course... :'D... I need to see that.
Post by: urbicande on May 25, 2016, 09:15:03 AM
"Thor is great! You want to direct all your prayers to Thor!"
"What about Odin?"
"Well I guess Odin is all right, but what kind of warrior lets himself get hung from a tree for days? Thor is the one you should be spending your time on! And Freyja! Freya's good too!"
"But, what if I need help from a non-warrior god?"
"If you keep asking stupid questions I'm not going to share my wisdom with you!"
This is SO true!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 25, 2016, 09:54:28 PM
Worst case scenario - I don't even want to think about!
Post by: Buteo on May 25, 2016, 10:01:56 PM
Best case scenario - The gods have looked favourably on Reynir and have stirred up the wildlife so the team gets the chance for a decent feed.
Worst case scenario - I don't even want to think about!
We may not need to think about the worst case scenario - Minna may be about to show us.
Or at least enough to raise the tension a bit, there is one more page before the weekend.
Post by: Juniper on May 25, 2016, 10:45:48 PM
Post by: Kelpie on May 25, 2016, 11:11:31 PM
Post by: Emil on May 31, 2016, 05:06:03 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on May 31, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Post by: Kiraly on May 31, 2016, 10:30:38 PM
I just wanted to share my appreciation for Mikkel's A+ cooking skills and shifty eyes. I actually laughed out loud at today's update.
Haha, I know, the shifty eyes get me every time! And it looks like Lalli is really trying to be a team player, helping with the cooking like that. So thoughtful of him.
Post by: Tr on May 31, 2016, 10:38:31 PM
Haha, I know, the shifty eyes get me every time! And it looks like Lalli is really trying to be a team player, helping with the cooking like that. So thoughtful of him.Thoughtful, yes. After all, the stew can't possibly be worse.
Lalli logic. It works.
The best part is that Mikkel agrees. "Oh, a dead squirrel. How did that get there? Oh well. I suppose it will add that hard-to-get woodsy flavor..."
Post by: Minutia_R on May 31, 2016, 10:43:22 PM
My point is somebody needs to get Reynir in there immediately.
Post by: JoB on May 31, 2016, 10:48:35 PM
My point is somebody needs to get Reynir in there immediately.... why would you have Reynir thrown into the soup as well? :?
Post by: Kelpie on May 31, 2016, 10:54:12 PM
Quote from: Minutia_R
I mean, I would have thought Mikkel would know how to butcher animals, since he did grow up on/spend some time working on a farm. Maybe he does but not when they turn up mysteriously in his soup?I would have thought Lalli would know how to butcher an animal, but apparently he does not care if it's cleaned or not. I think that unfortunately there's not much Mikkel can do about the matter given that the squirrel had already cooked, though I will be very amused if Reynir suddenly turns out to be a master chef and takes over all cooking duties.
My point is somebody needs to get Reynir in there immediately.
Quote from: "JoB'
... why would you have Reynir thrown into the soup as well? :?...Lalli would...
Post by: Juniper on May 31, 2016, 11:25:57 PM
I would have thought Lalli would know how to butcher an animal, but apparently he does not care if it's cleaned or not. I think that unfortunately there's not much Mikkel can do about the matter given that the squirrel had already cooked, though I will be very amused if Reynir suddenly turns out to be a master chef and takes over all cooking duties.I'm just a bit curious as to what Mikkel's going to do about the bones and how he plans on explaining that. Then again, he normally scoops the soups out and serves them to people, maybe they don't have to know.
Post by: Puls3 on June 01, 2016, 02:05:03 AM
I'm just a bit curious as to what Mikkel's going to do about the bones and how he plans on explaining that. Then again, he normally scoops the soups out and serves them to people, maybe they don't have to know.I think that suspicion towards the scout (and the chef) will be inevitable once everyone starts to cough up hair balls after the supper.
Post by: Emil on June 01, 2016, 05:40:14 AM
Post by: Mélusine on June 01, 2016, 08:25:42 AM
I just wanted to share my appreciation for Mikkel's A+ cooking skills and shifty eyes. I actually laughed out loud at today's update.Same here ^^ And this "Okay, let's pretend all is normal..." face !
Now I wonder HOW Lalli could think it's a good idea to put a dead squirrel in the food... The famous squirrel's soup from his Grandma ? Nooooooo...
Post by: Double H on June 01, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
Post by: Elleth on June 01, 2016, 06:34:54 PM
I was wondering the other day: Is there an updated timeline of the comic somewhere?
This (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4jFF4PhZJycRh_AG3N5FV6Eedy6Wht0bU6hLWGxy1c/edit#gid=0) is the only one I know about, but it appears to be reasonably up-to-date. Add to that LarsB's calculations (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=503#comment-2600219339) that the team reached Copenhagen on November 14, 2103, you can even do some more detailed number-crunching. :)
Post by: Double H on June 01, 2016, 07:07:55 PM
This (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4jFF4PhZJycRh_AG3N5FV6Eedy6Wht0bU6hLWGxy1c/edit#gid=0) is the only one I know about, but it appears to be reasonably up-to-date. Add to that LarsB's calculations (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=503#comment-2600219339) that the team reached Copenhagen on November 14, 2103, you can even do some more detailed number-crunching. :)Thank you :D
Post by: IKEA on June 02, 2016, 11:25:37 PM
Whatever, art quibble aside I like the focus on Emil and Lalli's relationship and dynamic.
Post by: Emil on June 03, 2016, 04:58:45 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 03, 2016, 07:23:04 AM
I think they haven't reached the bridge yet. It's about 90km as the crow flies from Copenhagen to the start of the Great Belt Bridge. With diversions due to damaged roads, general hazards, side trips to collect books and having to avoid built up areas this could easily add up to more than 100km. Add in the engine problems we see in the latest page it could easily take the team over a week to cover this distance.
I also figure crossing the bridge will be a major story point - or at least an opportunity for some great art - and it wouldn't go past without a panel at least.
Kitty's growth is just one of those things we have to accept as slightly unrealistic ;)
(I look forward to being proved completely wrong come Monday ;D)
Post by: Róisín on June 03, 2016, 09:22:28 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 03, 2016, 12:25:09 PM
Post by: Juniper on June 03, 2016, 01:20:52 PM
Post by: urbicande on June 03, 2016, 02:12:04 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 04, 2016, 06:19:29 PM
I wasn't actually expecting the time skip at all, and I'm still kind of trying to 'catch up' on the last couple of pages. Wonder what we're fast-forwarding to?
Given the engine trouble? I'd guess they're about to get stuck for awhile. (Watch me get proved wrong come Monday.)
Post by: Tr on June 05, 2016, 08:40:39 PM
My guess is absorbing it.
Also, they have so many ghosts following them!!! O.o
And. I love how the page gets darker and creepier as I scroll down.
Post by: urbicande on June 05, 2016, 09:36:48 PM
The possibility of being stranded in the middle of nowhere is part of what makes the landscape kind of ominous, yes. Though in the chapter cover they look awfully happy for people who are stuck in the silent world, unless it just takes place before the engine trouble..
I'm really expecting the bridge to fall down.
Post by: Róisín on June 05, 2016, 10:59:30 PM
Post by: urbicande on June 06, 2016, 11:09:15 AM
536: Oh NO.
Well, the caption on Minna's Twitter says "this time they brave a bridge without collapsing it" but who knows... there's a lot of bridge. But I'm getting more and more puzzled about how on earth the team is going to get out of this?? D:
Minna also said that this chapter would be lighthearted!
There look like some big chunks of concrete falling from the bridge in the first panel (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=536).
It may not literally be collapsing under them, but I wouldn't bet on it still being standing behind them when they get to Nyborg!
Post by: Ragnarok on June 06, 2016, 11:10:31 AM
Minna also said that this chapter would be lighthearted!
There look like some big chunks of concrete falling from the bridge in the first panel (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=536).
It may not literally be collapsing under them, but I wouldn't bet on it still being standing behind them when they get to Nyborg!
Now I'm picturing the end of the expedition, and they find out that literally every bridge they went over collapsed almost immediately.
Post by: urbicande on June 06, 2016, 12:08:45 PM
Post by: PTTG on June 06, 2016, 03:23:25 PM
Post by: urbicande on June 06, 2016, 03:28:48 PM
Anyone else unable to read comics after 533? Everything after that is returning the "hmm, there's no posts for this date" message.
I occasionally have that problem if I'm looking on my phone, but not on the computer. Maybe if you clear your cache?
Post by: PTTG on June 06, 2016, 04:41:43 PM
I occasionally have that problem if I'm looking on my phone, but not on the computer. Maybe if you clear your cache?
Tried that, but maybe it's my ISP. They've done this before...
Post by: Anna on June 06, 2016, 04:48:07 PM
Anyone else unable to read comics after 533? Everything after that is returning the "hmm, there's no posts for this date" message.Something like that happens to me when I try to look at the comic on my phone's Safari app, but not with the Chrome app. If you have more than one browser app, maybe try switching which one you use to check the comic?
Post by: Tr on June 06, 2016, 08:38:36 PM
...
It is truly impressive.
I nominate it for Weirdest, Ugliest Moose.
Post by: Yuuago on June 06, 2016, 08:41:30 PM
Minna has outdone herself. Ghostie is now an eight-legged death horse with human hands instead of hooves.
...
It is truly impressive.
I nominate it for Weirdest, Ugliest Moose.
I second that nomination.
Post by: Kelpie on June 06, 2016, 10:57:10 PM
Quote from: Tr
Minna has outdone herself. Ghostie is now an eight-legged death horse with human hands instead of hooves.
...
It is truly impressive.
I nominate it for Weirdest, Ugliest Moose.
Quote from: Yuuago
I second that nomination.
Thirded. *slams gavel*
Post by: Anna on June 06, 2016, 11:00:46 PM
Thirded. *slams gavel*Motion carried!
Post by: PTTG on June 07, 2016, 12:36:38 PM
Post by: Juniper on June 13, 2016, 09:40:41 PM
Post by: Kiraly on June 13, 2016, 09:46:24 PM
Today's page is literally the second best thing I could think of happening the only thing that could possibly make me happier would be Emil and Lalli smooching but we all know I'm probably just going to have to settle for this.
EEEEEE I know!!!! LALLI LEARNED SOME SWEDISH!!!!
Post by: Minutia_R on June 13, 2016, 10:11:52 PM
Post by: urbicande on June 13, 2016, 10:42:03 PM
Hopefully it's not like me in Spanish, where I know how to ask where the bathroom is, but not enough to understand the answer.
Post by: Puls3 on June 14, 2016, 01:10:14 AM
Today's page is literally the second best thing I could think of happening the only thing that could possibly make me happier would be Emil and Lalli smooching but we all know I'm probably just going to have to settle for this.It's so GREAT!! I hope that for the next page we will see Emil make a an attempt to say "good work" in Finnish.
And failing miserably ;D
Post by: Juniper on June 14, 2016, 01:55:18 AM
Post by: Kiraly on June 14, 2016, 08:23:35 AM
Oh gosh now I'm conflicted, I love the face Lalli is making in the second panel today, it's so sassy out of context with that perplexed side eye look and the ". . ." word bubble to the point of where I want it as an avatar, but at the same time, Agneta ;_;
Use one for the forum and the other for disqus? (That is a pretty excellent Lalli face, but then again...Agneta).
Post by: Yuuago on June 14, 2016, 10:01:10 AM
Oh gosh now I'm conflicted, I love the face Lalli is making in the second panel today, it's so sassy out of context with that perplexed side eye look and the ". . ." word bubble to the point of where I want it as an avatar, but at the same time, Agneta ;_;
/pats
Yyyep, I know that feeling. xD
(There is a reason I opted for extra avatar slots over at my journal, and... this kind of thing is exactly the reason. SO MANY AWESOME FACES)
Post by: Juniper on June 14, 2016, 03:28:56 PM
Use one for the forum and the other for disqus? (That is a pretty excellent Lalli face, but then again...Agneta).This is a good solution yes thank you :3
/pats
Yyyep, I know that feeling. xD
(There is a reason I opted for extra avatar slots over at my journal, and... this kind of thing is exactly the reason. SO MANY AWESOME FACES)
Part of me almost wishes we could do this for the forum, but nah people's avatars is part of how I keep people straight. Plus, I envision people to actually look like their avatars even when I see pictures around the personal thread proving otherwise because that's just the image I associate with them, rotating avatars would just confuse me and spoil that for me.
Post by: urbicande on June 14, 2016, 04:07:39 PM
This is a good solution yes thank you :3
Part of me almost wishes we could do this for the forum, but nah people's avatars is part of how I keep people straight. Plus, I envision people to actually look like their avatars even when I see pictures around the personal thread proving otherwise because that's just the image I associate with them, rotating avatars would just confuse me and spoil that for me.
We may never meet, but I promise you that I look nothing like my avatar ;)
Post by: PTTG on June 14, 2016, 04:22:34 PM
Post by: Eriaror on June 14, 2016, 04:24:53 PM
It's still not showing anything later than 533 for me. My ISP is a crime against nature.*patpat*
Have you tried entering the URL of the image itself? Eg. here's page 540 (http://sssscomic.com/comicpages/540.jpg).
Post by: Minutia_R on June 14, 2016, 08:54:05 PM
Post by: Athena on June 14, 2016, 09:50:34 PM
Please let Emil be about to try to translate what Sigrun just said into Finnish. Please, that's everything I want.
YESSS!! ;D That would be awesome! (ship, so much ship.)
Post by: Kiraly on June 15, 2016, 12:05:20 AM
Please let Emil be about to try to translate what Sigrun just said into Finnish. Please, that's everything I want.
YES!! Or even just a Finnish "...Good...job..." that's just as halting and just as heartfelt as Lalli's Swedish.
Post by: Shine on June 15, 2016, 01:33:48 AM
That would be perfect and adorable and the only thing better than Lalli's smile (which is so cute right now)!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 15, 2016, 02:07:31 AM
Post by: urbicande on June 15, 2016, 10:15:11 AM
What's the betting they're going to find something really unusual in that shop?
It looks like it's in suspiciously good shape, doesn't it?
Post by: Juniper on June 15, 2016, 11:31:13 AM
Post by: Athena on June 15, 2016, 11:31:34 AM
It looks like it's in suspiciously good shape, doesn't it?
maybe... Survivors? or something much worse...
Post by: Yuuago on June 15, 2016, 11:43:55 AM
I think it's been a while since we've really seen or heard from Taru. I think Taru goes on the top of my 'most underappreciated characters' list. I don't think I've even seen her in any fanworks, even though I occasionally see the other three pop up in them. It's a shame, I think Taru's a delight, and she's hella competent.
Hmm, you're right. :Va I think the small amount of her in fanwork might be because her pagetime is very front-loaded (early chapters). But it'd be nice if we heard from her a little more, eventually.
(Come to think of it, she'd be a great character to use to explore the worldbuilding...)
Post by: Róisín on June 15, 2016, 11:58:43 AM
Post by: Kiraly on June 15, 2016, 12:21:10 PM
I think it's been a while since we've really seen or heard from Taru. I think Taru goes on the top of my 'most underappreciated characters' list. I don't think I've even seen her in any fanworks, even though I occasionally see the other three pop up in them. It's a shame, I think Taru's a delight, and she's hella competent.
She really doesn't show up much in fanwork, does she? I put her in one of mine (she's Tuuri's boss in my hipster AU) but she doesn't have much of a prominent role.
Eh, she's in several of my fics, just ones I haven't uploaded yet. Remember where it says in her bio that she left Keuruu to pursue something more interesting? I think she's running Mikkel, and Mikkel is on the prowl for a specific set of pre-year-zero technology, an offshoot of which caused the rash.
Ooh, I like this theory. It would be really interesting to know what she was up to before she got involved with this whole expedition idea.
Post by: Juniper on June 15, 2016, 12:53:13 PM
She really doesn't show up much in fanwork, does she? I put her in one of mine (she's Tuuri's boss in my hipster AU) but she doesn't have much of a prominent role.Wait, I just remembered that ! And I also remembered that you did a splendid job of writing her. I think that's the only thing I can think of that I've seen in her in though, unless I'm just forgetting something else.
Eh, she's in several of my fics, just ones I haven't uploaded yet. Remember where it says in her bio that she left Keuruu to pursue something more interesting? I think she's running Mikkel, and Mikkel is on the prowl for a specific set of pre-year-zero technology, an offshoot of which caused the rash.
I also really like this idea. Like I said she's super competent, and she's more or less the connecting force behind the mission, she's who recruited the Hotakainens and she also recruited Trond who recruited Sigrun and Mikkel. The only people on the mission she's not somehow responsible for getting there would be Emil, and Reynir naturally but that's different. The idea that her and possibly Trond too might be up to something that not everyone knows about seems possible and would be a great twist. Not necessarily 'evil' or something that would result in the others getting intentionally hurt, but maybe something a bit devious and ulterior. I mean, the mission is already a devious sneaky money grabbing scheme in the first place it wouldn't be too surprising if someone had something extra devious and sneaky on the side. But by being devious and sneaky again that doesn't necessarily mean 'evil' or 'bad' because even thought I would consider the mission devious and sneaky in the first place I mean they're lying to the Nordic council and using government funds to loot books for personal profit, but it's not really evil or hurtful. I also feel like the 'something more interesting' wouldn't be brought up in her bio without it coming around to be something important eventually or at least touched on.
Hmm, you're right. :Va I think the small amount of her in fanwork might be because her pagetime is very front-loaded (early chapters). But it'd be nice if we heard from her a little more, eventually.I was actually thinking of that too, she's pretty prominent in the ending bit of the prologue and the first few chapters, but after that we don't hear much from her, she's there and says some stuff like talking to Onni and occasionally chiming in on radio conversations but really nothing more than a few sentences every few chapters.
(Come to think of it, she'd be a great character to use to explore the worldbuilding...)
Post by: Róisín on June 15, 2016, 01:20:21 PM
Post by: Yuuago on June 15, 2016, 07:28:27 PM
Well, an attempt was made! That's... better than nothing, I guess? ;p
Post by: Kiraly on June 15, 2016, 09:30:36 PM
re: 544, FFF. Oh, Emil.
Well, an attempt was made! That's... better than nothing, I guess? ;p
*uncontrollable giggling* A for Effort, F for Execution. But at least he tried, and Lalli seems to appreciate it. ^_^
Post by: Minutia_R on June 15, 2016, 10:24:03 PM
Post by: Tr on June 15, 2016, 11:20:11 PM
Bury me next to Kitty's mom, I'm dead. :DThe fourth panel killed me :'D
*ghostly whisper* soooo cuuute
Post by: urbicande on June 16, 2016, 09:30:08 AM
The fourth panel killed me :'D
*ghostly whisper* soooo cuuute
Yeah, the look on Lalli's face is *priceless*
Post by: Mayabird on June 16, 2016, 10:33:02 AM
I say most because the soul-eater is definitely hostile, though it could now be corrupting the rest of them.
Post by: BlueSkyVail on June 16, 2016, 04:42:07 PM
The facial expressions... all of the warm fuzzy feelings. All of them.
I just don't even know what to say...
Post by: Piney on June 16, 2016, 05:40:36 PM
Post by: Juniper on June 16, 2016, 06:23:37 PM
I'm wondering now if Tuuri (presuming this is her job, of course) has tried to teach Reynir any Swedish.I was actually thinking something like that, currently Reynir can only talk to Tuuri and Mikkel (coincidentally the other non-combat crew members which probably makes being left at the tank with them all the time easier) so if Lalli becomes proficient enough it Swedish that would mean Reynir would be the only one left with significant language barriers, and it sure would be neat to actually have the crew all able to communicate with each other.
Right now if Emil and Lalli continue to learn each other's languages that would mean the three combative crew members could actually communicate and like I said at least the three non-combative can talk to each other and considering that's how they get grouped off all the time anyway at least there's that.
Post by: Minutia_R on June 16, 2016, 10:07:21 PM
Post by: Shine on June 16, 2016, 11:36:56 PM
Awww, Reynir is helping. He looks so pleased with himself! Now all we need is a super cute thing with Tuuri and possibly Kitty, and we will have achieved Peak Cute.But that might kill us!
It would be worth it, admittedly, but it might kill us.
Post by: Kiraly on June 16, 2016, 11:40:39 PM
Awww, Reynir is helping. He looks so pleased with himself! Now all we need is a super cute thing with Tuuri and possibly Kitty, and we will have achieved Peak Cute.
But that might kill us!
It would be worth it, admittedly, but it might kill us.
If Tuuri does something cute and it kills me, I will die happy.
Post by: Tr on June 17, 2016, 12:33:09 AM
If Tuuri does something cute and it kills me, I will die happy.Yes.
I'm having trouble deciding who is the cutest SSSS character~ maybe Reynir, or Purrito? :))
(http://rs989.pbsrc.com/albums/af14/epierceabbott/Screen%20Shot%202016-05-16%20at%2020.14.57_zpsm5e276mx.png?w=480&h=480&fit=clip)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 17, 2016, 01:16:45 AM
Emil - Trusty right hand warrior
Lalli - Excellent and skilled scout
Tuuri - Always does what she says
Mikkel - Good for carrying things (and only slightly mutinous)
Kitty - Cats are *always* good
Reynir - Blathering weakling who takes up too much space and food
Post by: Minutia_R on June 17, 2016, 01:32:08 AM
I've been thinking a little more about Reynir's rune, though, and I've come to a couple of ... conclusions might be a strong word. But 1) Reynir is showing an admirably analytical, even scientific approach to magic here. I had not suspected it of him! 2) However, given that it is an experimental rune, it does have the potential to go disastrously wrong. What do you want to bet it attracts ghosts rather than repelling them?
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 17, 2016, 03:37:06 AM
Tuuri - Says "Yes Ma'am" with a sufficient amount of respect when told to do anything, and then usually does something approximating what she was asked to and hasn't caused any disasters yet
:D
Post by: PTTG on June 17, 2016, 02:29:23 PM
And here I thought this was America.
Post by: Juniper on June 17, 2016, 09:10:34 PM
I know that there's the whole thing of "there's no romance or any confirmed romance in SSSS and Minna has said that if she were to write Romance it would be indistinguishable from friendship" however, we do already have about eight or nine confirmed romantic couples (prologue characters, Sigrun's parents, Siv and Torbjörn) and the thing all of these pairings have in common is they're all straight pairings (although I don't know if I should say 'straight' because that's kind of a blanket statement because for all I know some of these characters could be bi or pan so calling them straight pairings feels weird, so other gender pairings ?) which like, I know Minna's not homophobic at all especially based on some of her remarks so I know not having any canon confirmed same sex pairings isn't intentional or anything. It just worries me because of the whole "if there were to be a romance you wouldn't know and it would be indistinguishable from friendship" because I'm worried that this secret pairing we wouldn't even for certain know about and would be indistinguishable from friendship would be a same gender pairing which, to me would kind of feel like getting shafted to have almost ten canonically confirmed different sex pairings with children but then the one same gender pairing is 'secret' and 'could be just friends' because this is already such a huge trend in just about every form of media everywhere for any LGBT+ pairings to be 'subtle' or 'up to interpretation' while different sex pairings are canon confirmed and very blatant, and this would just feel, really disappointing to me to see happen yet again to yet another story that I really like. I don't think Minna would intentionally queer bait at all by any means, but I'm afraid that this story might accidentally take a similar route or repeat an already unfortunate media trend of handling LGBT+ pairings.
Post by: Keeper on June 17, 2016, 09:49:57 PM
I know that there's the whole thing of "there's no romance or any confirmed romance in SSSS and Minna has said that if she were to write Romance it would be indistinguishable from friendship" however, we do already have about eight or nine confirmed romantic couples (prologue characters, Sigrun's parents, Siv and Torbjörn) and the thing all of these pairings have in common is they're all straight pairings (although I don't know if I should say 'straight' because that's kind of a blanket statement because for all I know some of these characters could be bi or pan so calling them straight pairings feels weird, so other gender pairings ?) which like, I know Minna's not homophobic at all especially based on some of her remarks so I know not having any canon confirmed same sex pairings isn't intentional or anything. It just worries me because of the whole "if there were to be a romance you wouldn't know and it would be indistinguishable from friendship" because I'm worried that this secret pairing we wouldn't even for certain know about and would be indistinguishable from friendship would be a same gender pairing which, to me would kind of feel like getting shafted to have almost ten canonically confirmed different sex pairings with children but then the one same gender pairing is 'secret' and 'could be just friends' because this is already such a huge trend in just about every form of media everywhere for any LGBT+ pairings to be 'subtle' or 'up to interpretation' while different sex pairings are canon confirmed and very blatant, and this would just feel, really disappointing to me to see happen yet again to yet another story that I really like. I don't think Minna would intentionally queer bait at all by any means, but I'm afraid that this story might accidentally take a similar route or repeat an already unfortunate media trend of handling LGBT+ pairings.
Hm, I never thought about it much that way. It may be too early to tell, but one possibility could be that we have the prologue couples (and Sigrun's parents) to emphasize the ancestry of the main cast, and Minna simply doesn't intend to have outright romance in the main cast? We saw the prologue characters for less than 50 pages, and Torbjorn and Siv are secondary characters. It's not so much romance as it is family, the way I see it. Maybe it just makes more sense that on an expedition into the most perilous place anyone presently knows of, romance isn't a priority? Especially considering we see all the other characters in relative safety.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 17, 2016, 09:58:25 PM
Hm, I never thought about it much that way. It may be too early to tell, but one possibility could be that we have the prologue couples (and Sigrun's parents) to emphasize the ancestry of the main cast, and Minna simply doesn't intend to have outright romance in the main cast? We saw the prologue characters for less than 50 pages, and Torbjorn and Siv are secondary characters. It's not so much romance as it is family, the way I see it. Maybe it just makes more sense that on an expedition into the most perilous place anyone presently knows of, romance isn't a priority? Especially considering we see all the other characters in relative safety.
This does make sense. Come to think of it, there wasn't any explicit romance between the prologue characters either - the only reason we even know those relationships were romantic is because we suddenly started seeing a bunch of people with the same names and faces 90 years later...
Even the canonically married couples don't have a whole lot of explicit romance - Siv and Torbjorn use the occasional endearment, but that's it. Though come to think of it, I would love it if, say, Taru or Trond were revealed at some point to have a same-sex spouse or love interest waiting for them at home. Even if I do headcanon Trond as a grumpy old bachelor. Or Onni could get a boyfriend at some point, hm...
Post by: Juniper on June 17, 2016, 10:11:42 PM
This does make sense. Come to think of it, there wasn't any explicit romance between the prologue characters either - the only reason we even know those relationships were romantic is because we suddenly started seeing a bunch of people with the same names and faces 90 years later...
Even the canonically married couples don't have a whole lot of explicit romance - Siv and Torbjorn use the occasional endearment, but that's it. Though come to think of it, I would love it if, say, Taru or Trond were revealed at some point to have a same-sex spouse or love interest waiting for them at home. Even if I do headcanon Trond as a grumpy old bachelor. Or Onni could get a boyfriend at some point, hm...
Yeah maybe Trond offhandedly mentioned something about an ex husband or Taru off-handedly mentioning something about an ex-wife, like that would work. It would be treated the same as the other canon confirmed pairs, not even main cast members and not part of the main plot with no romantic content, it would just kinda be there. So far Siv and Torbjörn and them having kids doesn't serve any important lineage things yet either, although I have a hunch that considering Minna has mentioned that there will be more stories in the future taking place after SSSS that Emil's cousins might be older and take on a more important role in the story. Also, they have furthered the plot by cutting off Onni's ear which I think might possibly come back to me more important considering his ear was cut off right about the same time his Luonto form thing's ear was cut off fighting the murder ghosts, which might have more meaning later ?
Post by: Hrollo on June 17, 2016, 10:47:51 PM
because this is already such a huge trend in just about every form of media everywhere for any LGBT+ pairings to be 'subtle' or 'up to interpretation' while different sex pairings are canon confirmed and very blatant, and this would just feel, really disappointing to me to see happen yet again to yet another story that I really like.
Well, there's a thing I've thought about here, seeing as this isn't the first time SSSS has been criticized for lack of diversity/representation of another. While I understand the general criticism of media as lacking in this domain, I think that precisely, on this points, webcomics, as a whole, are markedly different from other media.
I read a lot of webcomics at any time, currently I'd say I follow at least 50 (and that's a rather low point). The vast majority of those have cast that shows real diversity in term of ethnicity, sexual orientation and/or gender. Of course I could be unconsciously be drawn to those, so to test this I also at some point went through the front page of topwebcomic and verified every webcomic for diversity criteria. I found that even with a really pessismitc count, at least 45% of webcomics avalaible were "diverse", and that included very popular ones (like Questionable Content or Dumbing of Age).
I feel that in those conditions, it makes much less sense to single out SSSS for its lack of diversity (especially when it's not intentionally that way), because it doesn't actually participate in a problem within the specific framing of the webcomic media: its existence doesn't make diverse comics any harder to find, because there are plenty of them, there are easy to find, and there are many famous ones.
edit: heck, SSSS links back to Hivework, where the concentration of diverse webcomics is even higher.
Post by: Calidris on June 17, 2016, 11:26:13 PM
Granted, it could be that I'm simply looking at the wrong webcomics. There is always that possibility.
Post by: Juniper on June 17, 2016, 11:49:24 PM
Well, there's a thing I've thought about here, seeing as this isn't the first time SSSS has been criticized for lack of diversity/representation of another. While I understand the general criticism of media as lacking in this domain, I think that precisely, on this points, webcomics, as a whole, are markedly different from other media.
I read a lot of webcomics at any time, currently I'd say I follow at least 50 (and that's a rather low point). The vast majority of those have cast that shows real diversity in term of ethnicity, sexual orientation and/or gender. Of course I could be unconsciously be drawn to those, so to test this I also at some point went through the front page of topwebcomic and verified every webcomic for diversity criteria. I found that even with a really pessismitc count, at least 45% of webcomics avalaible were "diverse", and that included very popular ones (like Questionable Content or Dumbing of Age).
I feel that in those conditions, it makes much less sense to single out SSSS for its lack of diversity (especially when it's not intentionally that way), because it doesn't actually participate in a problem within the specific framing of the webcomic media: its existence doesn't make diverse comics any harder to find, because there are plenty of them, there are easy to find, and there are many famous ones.
edit: heck, SSSS links back to Hivework, where the concentration of diverse webcomics is even higher.
Yeah, I get that, but somehow that doesn't less the blow of disappointment. Especially because in my experience a lot of these really 'diverse' webcomics I've come across are a bit like glee (I'm so sorry to any glee fans out there) where if a character is LGBT+ or PoC or any other sort of marginalized group, their inclusion becomes a politicized statement and their plot and struggles become mostly about their existence as part of this marginalized group which feels tokenizing and treating the character and this aspect of them like a political statement instead of just treating them like any other character, which is why I stopped reading Dumbing of Age even though I was pretty hooked on it for a while, it just started to make me uncomfortable after a while that most characters plots revolved around their gender, sexuality, or race which again just felt tokenizing and started to make me uncomfortable, same with yu+me even though I really liked that one I felt like they were a bit guilty of this too. That's why I like stories like Welcome to Nightvale and why I liked TwoRooks, they treated the characters that were female / LGBT+ / PoC just, regularly and didn't make their whole plot revolve around it which was a huge relief. Because that's the thing, the existence of women / LGBT+ / PoC isn't a political statement, my life and existence isn't a political statement, but so many writers get this wrong and treat 'diverse' characters as political statement instead of people. I really like that about SSSS that Minna even said she didn't set out to make political statements with her comic meaning if she did include an LGBT+ character in the future they wouldn't be just a political statement or weirdly tokenized, they'd be treated like any other character. (oh gosh I'm so sorry I got off topic there and went off on a side tangent)
But yeah, you do have a point, this is less of an issue with webcomics than it is with most other forms of media which is why I said 'just about' instead of just leaving it at every, there are still forms of media that are better at this, which is probably because webcomics are small scale independently produced. Although again it wouldn't make me less disappointed, especially because it would feel like "darn it webcomics you're supposed to be better than this !" and even if it is less of a problem with webcomics I guess that doesn't mean it still isn't a problem with media as a whole even if this one niche has less of a problem with it.
Although so far the rhetorics of Lazy8 and Keeper make sense that the same sex pairings are more there for lineage sake than romance. It's kind of like Song of the Sea, there is some romance between the parents but I still consider that story not really having a romantic subplot because there's only like, two seconds where they say 'I love you' to each other toward the end and they're also more there for family / lineage sake than anything, just like the different sex pairings in SSSS. But then again, I feel like a same sex pairing could also be there for family sake too without having any romance as part of the story still.
I dunno. On my end, I think that SSSS does contribute to diversity in a different way - by focusing mostly on platonic relationships. Most of the webcomics I've seen and read, whether as a central focus or involving major characters, definitely involve romance and romantic relationships (whether same sex or otherwise, and whether as a driving force in the current plot or a significant factor of past events shaping the current story), and to be honest, it's kind of nice to read a comic where that's not a focus at all.No, I agree completely. Having stories that don't have any romance or sexuality is good when the vast majority of stories everywhere do have romance and / or sexuality in them, it's great for people who really aren't that romantic or sexual like myself, and sometimes it's just nice to focus on platonic relationships because those are definitely undervalued. However, just as the fact that there's different sex pairings like the prologue characters and what not that don't have much of or any of a romantic plot, the same could be said for a same sex pairing. They could be just there but not really doing anything romantic or having a romantic story just like all of the existing canon different sex couples do.
Granted, it could be that I'm simply looking at the wrong webcomics. There is always that possibility.
Post by: Hrollo on June 18, 2016, 08:57:34 AM
I think there's also a cultural factor in this; I am under the impression that a lot of these diverse comic authors are east or west coast liberals, or canadians and europeans that associate with the former through tumblr — they're not just random individuals, they're a specific cultural groups with its own codes, rituals and flags, and so the way they handle diversity in comics is not just a happenstance, not just "something some people do", it's a rally flag, a cultural shibboleth — "your comic must be this diverse to be in our group" (this doesn't have to be explicit or conscious of course, it's not a conspiracy).
Minna, by contrast, perhaps due to her modest demeanor, doesn't partake in this particular cultural sphere, so she doesn't have the "dresscode" down; it doesn't even occure to her that there is a dresscode! The lack of diversity in her comics isn't so much a negligence as simply her not belonging to the cultural group of people who value diversity in comics, not just as a nice thing to have, but as an endgoal.
Post by: urbicande on June 18, 2016, 11:03:42 AM
Minna, by contrast, perhaps due to her modest demeanor, doesn't partake in this particular cultural sphere, so she doesn't have the "dresscode" down; it doesn't even occure to her that there is a dresscode! The lack of diversity in her comics isn't so much a negligence as simply her not belonging to the cultural group of people who value diversity in comics, not just as a nice thing to have, but as an endgoal.
I'd also want to know what the current state of the population in the Known World is. We're 90 years on from most of the population of the world vanishing. Iceland is the one place where you'd expect some diversity because the Illness never struck there -- the most diverse places in the rest of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland...those people are all dead or worse. (Yes, it's different now, but Minna didn't know what 2016 was going to be like when she started the comic!)
(Not saying it's impossible, but if the story was set where he survivors were from, say, London or New York, I'd expect a MUCH more diverse population.)
(And just to add to it, we already know that the world isn't real -- the Illness is physically impossible without magic, so you may as well not worry about Y0 demographics that much)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 18, 2016, 09:14:52 PM
Post by: Róisín on June 18, 2016, 09:17:52 PM
Post by: Ragnarok on June 18, 2016, 09:19:11 PM
In terms of diversity Minna's doing one thing that seems pretty uncommon (from what I've seen anyway) in including a neurologically divergent character. Lalli is surely somewhere on the autistic spectrum, but he's presented as just a guy whose behaviour is a bit weird and who's rather awkward around people, rather than a card-counting, qantas-never-crashed, likely serial killer.
I believe the only other similar example I've encountered is Dina from Dumbing of Age, and that's rather borderline in terms of being portrayed as 'just a guy'.
Post by: Juniper on June 18, 2016, 11:14:00 PM
Juniper > yeah, I think I understand your point; I do like about SSSS that there's a lack of politically-motivated thing, while yeah thinking at the same time it wouldn't hurt to have more diversity — though my experience at least with webcomics is that some type of characters (say, transfolk) are really hard to introduce into a story without making it some sort of Point and Big Deal — and I don't mean a priori hard, by default, more like, it seems to be hard in the facts when you see how webcomics handle it.
I think there's also a cultural factor in this; I am under the impression that a lot of these diverse comic authors are east or west coast liberals, or canadians and europeans that associate with the former through tumblr — they're not just random individuals, they're a specific cultural groups with its own codes, rituals and flags, and so the way they handle diversity in comics is not just a happenstance, not just "something some people do", it's a rally flag, a cultural shibboleth — "your comic must be this diverse to be in our group" (this doesn't have to be explicit or conscious of course, it's not a conspiracy).
Minna, by contrast, perhaps due to her modest demeanor, doesn't partake in this particular cultural sphere, so she doesn't have the "dresscode" down; it doesn't even occure to her that there is a dresscode! The lack of diversity in her comics isn't so much a negligence as simply her not belonging to the cultural group of people who value diversity in comics, not just as a nice thing to have, but as an endgoal.
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say, and I could be misinterpreting, but it feels like you're saying that people only include characters simular to me to be in webcomics as a badge to get into an exclusive club of webcomic artists, but if they don't include characters who are simular to me or any other 'diverse' group then they're being humble, which I hope I am misinterpreting because that comes across as hurtful. My existence and the existence of fictional characters similar to me shouldn't be someone's badge to get into an exclusive club or make a political statement, and a lack of characters similar to me shouldn't be considered humble, but it feels dehumanizing to think that's the only reason someone like me might come up in a story. Why can't characters of certain demographics just, exist and be normal and be part of the story just like they do in real life.
In terms of diversity Minna's doing one thing that seems pretty uncommon (from what I've seen anyway) in including a neurologically divergent character. Lalli is surely somewhere on the autistic spectrum, but he's presented as just a guy whose behaviour is a bit weird and who's rather awkward around people, rather than a card-counting, qantas-never-crashed, likely serial killer.
I agree a bajillion percent that Lalli is a perfect example. I love Lalli's character for a ton of reasons and he's quickly risen to my top five favorite fictional characters, but I really think Minna's done a brilliant job of having someone who's neuro atypical. He's not tokenized or anything, he's a bit weird but otherwise he's still treated as normal and competent and a very layered, complicated, and dynamic character.
Post by: Hrollo on June 19, 2016, 10:25:27 AM
I mean of course people who include diverse characters do so out of genuine concern for diversity, I am not accusating anyone of being calculating and cynical. But I think (of course I could be wrong) that this concern for diversity, as genuine and sincere as it is, is not a spontaneous feeling, but rather, a nurtured feeling, something that develops collectively in a specific cultural and social context, and thus, even as it remains an authentic feeling with very good justifications behind it, also becomes a marker of cultural identity, of belonging to a specific group that holds this belief as one of its rally flag — again not cynically, probably not even consciously; I'm talking group dynamics, not conspiracies.
It's like how in the west we don't eat dogs. There are of course many good justifications put behind this prohibition, including genuine feelings of empathy and love for dogs as pets. But the simple fact that this prohibition isn't universal, and that some culture don't think twice about eating dog meat, shows that "not eating dog" is indeed not a natural moral rule, but a cultural norm specific to some regions — which again doesn't prevent it from stemming also from genuine feelings for dogs.
So what I am getting at here is not making excuses for anyone or trying to say that some group's apparent concern with diversity is really just a cynical move, but rather explaining (a theory of) the possible difference between the authors of these diverse webcoming and Minna, who is just as capable of care and empathy as anyone else, but was simply raised in different cultural norms that don't value diversity the way these other authors' cultural group does ("raised" in the larger sense, I'm not just thinking of family here).
Does this make sense?
Post by: JoB on June 19, 2016, 11:15:14 AM
What's the betting they're going to find something really unusual in that shop?Mikkel: "Here we have a couple Y0 publications mentioning the Nordic Council. It seems that their Y90 successors have embellished a couple details of that organization's history a bit ..."
Trond: *blackmailgasm*
My ISP hasn't updated their DNS cache in two weeks. I finally got sick of it and updated my personal DNS to use google DNS (2001:4860:4860::8844 or 8.8.8.8 for IPv4).Are you saying that that actually fixed your problem? That'ld confirm Minnas suspicion that those not getting to see the current page get pointed at the backup site she updates only occasionally.
(The SOA RR for sssscomic.com. specifies that information should be refetched every 30 minutes, and must be considered unusable after 24 hours. The official DNS entries should be pointing to the HiveWorks servers since what now, months!?)
Could you please grab a DNS client (like nslookup or dig) and post what data your ISP's servers reply with for "sssscomic.com." and "www.sssscomic.com."?
Post by: Juniper on June 19, 2016, 03:33:12 PM
Juniper > Ah, that is not what I was trying to say.
I mean of course people who include diverse characters do so out of genuine concern for diversity, I am not accusating anyone of being calculating and cynical. But I think (of course I could be wrong) that this concern for diversity, as genuine and sincere as it is, is not a spontaneous feeling, but rather, a nurtured feeling, something that develops collectively in a specific cultural and social context, and thus, even as it remains an authentic feeling with very good justifications behind it, also becomes a marker of cultural identity, of belonging to a specific group that holds this belief as one of its rally flag — again not cynically, probably not even consciously; I'm talking group dynamics, not conspiracies.
It's like how in the west we don't eat dogs. There are of course many good justifications put behind this prohibition, including genuine feelings of empathy and love for dogs as pets. But the simple fact that this prohibition isn't universal, and that some culture don't think twice about eating dog meat, shows that "not eating dog" is indeed not a natural moral rule, but a cultural norm specific to some regions — which again doesn't prevent it from stemming also from genuine feelings for dogs.
So what I am getting at here is not making excuses for anyone or trying to say that some group's apparent concern with diversity is really just a cynical move, but rather explaining (a theory of) the possible difference between the authors of these diverse webcoming and Minna, who is just as capable of care and empathy as anyone else, but was simply raised in different cultural norms that don't value diversity the way these other authors' cultural group does ("raised" in the larger sense, I'm not just thinking of family here).
Does this make sense?
Ah yeah that does make more sense, thanks for clarifying. But yeah, I dunno the thing is though as others have pointed out the diversity Minna does have in the comic, one of the main characters being neuro atypical, as well as in my opinion all six main characters + Onni break traditional gender notions and stereotypes in one way or another, she handles it perfectly and I love her writting for that (but like also a bunch of others reasons but that's just one) It feels natural and not forced at all.
Post by: Kiraly on June 19, 2016, 11:12:20 PM
...I would be concerned about this anyway, but he also doesn't have his mask on. O_O
Post by: Juniper on June 19, 2016, 11:20:24 PM
Not to derail the conversation that's going on, but on the current page (546) (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=546) I'm interested to see that Reynir seems to be going along to the antique shop? I'd assumed he was giving out those runes before Sigrun, Mikkel, Emil and Lalli left, but those are definitely his lighter-colored boots and blue tunic in the last panel, and the feet on the far right seem to be stepping into the shop.I think we might be getting the chapter cover, which makes me wonder if Tuuri's coming too ? Yeah I'm a bit worried for their safety too :c
...I would be concerned about this anyway, but he also doesn't have his mask on. O_OPlease protect the non-immune cinnamon roll, he's trying so hard.
Post by: Kiraly on June 20, 2016, 12:05:47 AM
I think we might be getting the chapter cover, which makes me wonder if Tuuri's coming too ? Yeah I'm a bit worried for their safety too :c
Yeah, I'm sort of wondering if Tuuri's actually at the end (there's sort of a shadowy leg-shape to the left of the left-most pair of legs that seems like it could be a Tuuri leg.) If she is, I really hope she has her mask (and Reynir has his stowed away somewhere).
Post by: Minutia_R on June 20, 2016, 12:39:04 AM
Yeah, I'm sort of wondering if Tuuri's actually at the end (there's sort of a shadowy leg-shape to the left of the left-most pair of legs that seems like it could be a Tuuri leg.) If she is, I really hope she has her mask (and Reynir has his stowed away somewhere).
Maybe he put it on sometime between panels 5 and 6?
(And, welp, there goes another one of my fics, jossed. Apparently Reynir is not down for drawing runes in blood.)
Post by: Róisín on June 20, 2016, 02:36:13 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 20, 2016, 08:23:01 AM
Not to derail the conversation that's going on, but on the current page (546) (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=546) I'm interested to see that Reynir seems to be going along to the antique shop? I'd assumed he was giving out those runes before Sigrun, Mikkel, Emil and Lalli left, but those are definitely his lighter-colored boots and blue tunic in the last panel, and the feet on the far right seem to be stepping into the shop.
...I would be concerned about this anyway, but he also doesn't have his mask on. O_OPlease protect the non-immune cinnamon roll, he's trying so hard.
I'm assuming it's considered safe, since Minna made a point of showing that Lalli's already been over the whole place and that there aren't any nests hanging around.
Post by: urbicande on June 20, 2016, 09:29:18 AM
Maybe he put it on sometime between panels 5 and 6?
(And, welp, there goes another one of my fics, jossed. Apparently Reynir is not down for drawing runes in blood.)
I kinda love Reynir's reaction to the thought of drawing runes in blood.
Post by: Unlos on June 20, 2016, 05:21:18 PM
Post by: Kiraly on June 20, 2016, 07:37:54 PM
Post by: Juniper on June 20, 2016, 07:43:28 PM
Oh good...according to a comment of Minna's (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=547#comment-2741589194) on the next page, Reynir did put his mask on, we just didn't see him do it. *breathes a sigh of relief*
Good to know the non-immune babies are safe :3
I'm also really glad to see Tuuri with her camera working on the cover up mission. I actually think a lot about what if the story ends with them all getting caught and everyone getting in a bunch of legal trouble. That actually might make a fun and kinda silly fic. *adds to the list of about a dozen other things I've thought about writing*
Post by: Minutia_R on June 21, 2016, 10:27:57 PM
It's nice to see her and Lalli hanging out and chatting! Lalli always knew there was something off about those maps.
Post by: Marcoreos on June 21, 2016, 10:37:20 PM
Post by: Juniper on June 21, 2016, 10:58:48 PM
I just keep imagining Tuuri writing it on Emil's hand, but then it gets smudged and he says something stupid :')
That sounds suspiciously similar to the beginning of the Disney Mulan movie, which is making me envision a lovely crossover with Emil as Mulan.
Post by: Ana Nymus on June 21, 2016, 11:57:34 PM
That sounds suspiciously similar to the beginning of the Disney Mulan movie, which is making me envision a lovely crossover with Emil as Mulan.
But then he would have to cut his lovely hair! And I for one am not prepared for that sort of emotional turmoil :P
Post by: Juniper on June 22, 2016, 12:09:29 AM
But then he would have to cut his lovely hair! And I for one am not prepared for that sort of emotional turmoil :P
If it's causing you emotional turmoil imagine the emotional turmoil it would give Emil himself :sparkle: :emil: :sparkle:
Post by: urbicande on June 22, 2016, 08:44:19 AM
The shop is too neat. It's closed up, so there should be 90 years worth of dust and cobwebs in it. And there's NOT
Post by: Calidris on June 22, 2016, 05:17:14 PM
I know I've said this on the Disqus threads more than once.
The shop is too neat. It's closed up, so there should be 90 years worth of dust and cobwebs in it. And there's NOT
Ah, running off your kingdom? :b
Post by: Juniper on June 22, 2016, 09:26:16 PM
Post by: Keeper on June 22, 2016, 09:27:55 PM
Huh, disqus is gone, I really hope this is temporary ;_;
It was like that for me for about ten minutes, it came back.
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2016, 09:32:03 PM
Huh, disqus is gone, I really hope this is temporary ;_;Same here. Things just don't seem to be going well for this page.
Post by: Piney on June 22, 2016, 09:39:56 PM
Huh, disqus is gone, I really hope this is temporary ;_;
I hope it's just a coincidence. The comments are still going on the disqus page (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_549/newest/), though ¯\_(°_o)_/¯
Post by: Yuuago on June 22, 2016, 09:48:58 PM
Huh, disqus is gone, I really hope this is temporary ;_;
It borked and wouldn't load at all, but it's back for me. It does not load on the most recent page, but it loads on previous (which it wouldn't, a few minutes ago), so I thiiiink the reason it's not displaying is because comments for today's page are closed.
Post by: Juniper on June 22, 2016, 09:53:27 PM
It borked and wouldn't load at all, but it's back for me. It does not load on the most recent page, but it loads on previous (which it wouldn't, a few minutes ago), so I thiiiink the reason it's not displaying is because comments for today's page are closed.
And she just left official word that today's comment section is closed, so that's that.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 22, 2016, 09:56:36 PM
Post by: Piney on June 22, 2016, 10:04:53 PM
I'm disappointed. I don't blame her for doing something unintentionally insensitive in the first place, but shutting down the discussion?
Me too, I thought the discussion was actually pretty civil. It's concerning to me that she didn't say anything about changing it, but I'm probably reading into that. :/
Post by: Juniper on June 22, 2016, 10:10:09 PM
Me too, I thought the discussion was actually pretty civil. It's concerning to me that she didn't say anything about changing it, but I'm probably reading into that. :/No, I'm a bit bothered by that too. It's one thing to unintentionally do something insensitive and I was hoping maybe she took down the comments to keep the discussions from getting un-civil while she changed it real quick, but now I'm going to have to third that disappointment :c
Post by: GenericNerd on June 22, 2016, 10:20:34 PM
Add me to the list of disappointed people. I don't think Minna ever intended malice, or was aware of quite how racist that term is. And you know, that happens. But it's always a disappointment when it's explained why it's harmful, especially by members of the fanbase who've also had to deal with that kind of slur, and the response is trying to wave it off as "good natured ribbing".
I know I wouldn't find an antisemitic or anti-hispanic crack in the comic to be good natured ribbing, and I think it's important to take the time to empathize with other people.
Post by: urbicande on June 22, 2016, 10:26:42 PM
"*Edit* Welp, looks like this page was way too much for the comment section, I wouldn't be able to keep an eye on and moderate the mess without losing way too much work time, so none of that today. I guess sometimes there's just a too big cultural difference between countries on what's used as something offensive or just as simple good natured ribbing without malice. Oh well."
Now, in the USA I would never EVER use that term (and it kind of horrifies me here, too), but I also have to remember that Minna isn't from the USA.
Doesn't make it any less shocking to see.
On the *brighter* side, Mikkel is obviously very well educated.
Post by: Juniper on June 22, 2016, 10:30:07 PM
Man, it's sad that I only find out there's a fan forum after this.
Add me to the list of disappointed people. I don't think Minna ever intended malice, or was aware of quite how racist that term is. And you know, that happens. But it's always a disappointment when it's explained why it's harmful, especially by members of the fanbase who've also had to deal with that kind of slur, and the response is trying to wave it off as "good natured ribbing".
I know I wouldn't find an antisemitic or anti-hispanic crack in the comic to be good natured ribbing, and I think it's important to take the time to empathize with other people.
Welcome to the forum, there's an introduction thread over on the general discussion board if you'd like to formally introduce yourself. Sorry your introduction here is on this note :c
I really wish there was a way for her to understand, especially given that not only will she likely loose readers for this but also it's good to learn from your mistakes and learning from this could prevent her from including more potentially harmful content in the future.
Post by: Iceea on June 22, 2016, 10:30:50 PM
I found the page totally hilarious. Sigrun's comment about a lemon that killed itself is the best. I didn't find the dialog racist at all, did she change it from what was originally posted? It may be a bit of s slur on the Chinese. But I'm just a crude American so what do I know.
From the illustrations in the book with the Chinese characters in it I believe it has something to do with golf. Hmm, that's a second golf reference. Maybe they'll find a stash of clubs and revive the game??
Post by: IKEA on June 22, 2016, 10:35:58 PM
Post by: urbicande on June 22, 2016, 10:36:21 PM
dialog racist at all, did she change it from what was originally posted? It may be a bit of s slur on the Chinese. But I'm just a crude American so what do I know.
Emil, panel 5
Post by: IKEA on June 22, 2016, 10:44:53 PM
I bet some people of Chinese descent liked the joke and some didn't, but either way I don't think (not implying that any of you do) that Minna should be expected to change her work.
Post by: shoop on June 22, 2016, 10:48:38 PM
Honestly, I can definitely see how it could be insensitive, but some of the commentors were taking things a bit too far and getting offended on others' behalf. That always ticks me off, lumping oeople into groups based on race/culture/what have you and assuming they all think the same way.
I bet some people of Chinese descent liked the joke and some didn't, but either way I don't think (not implying that any of you do) that Minna should be expected to change her work.
okay, so, seeing that the comments closed on the actual page, I was like 'I should probably stop talking about it, since I've vented on twitter', but dude. come on.
It's a slur. It's an offensive thing people have said to me and my chinese family and my chinese friends to intimidate and demean us. it's not. It's not a good word. I highly doubt you'll find any Chinese person who's going to think the joke is funny. I don't know if Minna will change her work or not but considering it's not exactly the best joke ever (first google result - a wikipedia article dedicated to proving it's PEJORATIVE) if she did it would be pretty decent of her.
Post by: GenericNerd on June 22, 2016, 10:50:36 PM
Honestly, I can definitely see how it could be insensitive, but some of the commentors were taking things a bit too far and getting offended on others' behalf. That always ticks me off, lumping oeople into groups based on race/culture/what have you and assuming they all think the same way.
I bet some people of Chinese descent liked the joke and some didn't, but either way I don't think (not implying that any of you do) that Minna should be expected to change her work.
Well in my case I was uncomfortable with it initially, but only spoke up when fans of Chinese descent in the comments section expressed why it genuinely hurt them to see a joke at their expense in a work they love, and especially one so unexpected and unprompted, and frankly unnecessary. There are a number of ways to make a joke about Emil being sheltered and uneducated without resorting to that.
Post by: IKEA on June 22, 2016, 10:58:32 PM
Well in my case I was uncomfortable with it initially, but only spoke up when fans of Chinese descent in the comments section expressed why it genuinely hurt them to see a joke at their expense in a work they love, and especially one so unexpected and unprompted, and frankly unnecessary. There are a number of ways to make a joke about Emil being sheltered and uneducated without resorting to that.That's fair. I wasn't meaning everybody in the comments who were calling this out, just a few who I noticed in the first page or so. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and that is a very reasonable argument (God, I sound pretentious now).
Point is, we have differing opinions on this.
Post by: Pupunen on June 22, 2016, 11:01:34 PM
Post by: Sutremaine on June 22, 2016, 11:13:12 PM
I bet some people of Chinese descent liked the joke and some didn't, but either way I don't think (not implying that any of you do) that Minna should be expected to change her work.I haven't read anything from Chinese people who did like the joke, though.
Post by: urbicande on June 22, 2016, 11:27:00 PM
I have to admit that I didn't know that the word was considered so offensive in English. As far as I can remember, I've only heard it used by Swedish and Finnish kids who were pretending to speak a foreign language, so my impression was that it was childish and ignorant but I didn't know it was used as a racial slur. I still think it would be better for Minna to change it to something else, but I suspect she wasn't aware that people might find it hurtful (and maybe still hasn't realized quite how strongly people feel about it if she didn't go through all the comments). But as others have said, it would be easy to change the joke into something that people wouldn't find offensive, so I hope she does.
Yeah, that's where I'm willing to cut Minna a fair amount of slack -- she's not a native English speaker, and she wouldn't necessarily know how it comes across in English.
I was pretty shocked, though
Post by: Calidris on June 22, 2016, 11:27:08 PM
Post by: IKEA on June 22, 2016, 11:28:57 PM
Post by: urbicande on June 22, 2016, 11:40:54 PM
Generally, only people who feel very strongly about something bother to express that in a poll or similar settings, such as a comments section. This assumes that the subjects are not Disqus regulars who will post anyway because thay always do. It's a principle of statistics called non-response bias. If people aren't angry or really happy (any kind of strong emotion towards the comic), overall they are less likely to say anything.
Tell you what. Go poll all the Chinese and Chinese-descended people you know. See what they think.
Post by: GenericNerd on June 22, 2016, 11:48:24 PM
It surprises me that so many of you that are offended are completely removing any agency Minna has when it comes this. She spends how many hours a day on a single page? She likely thought about how it applied to Emil's character and whether or not it would be acceptable in-universe, we all know that Emil has been a very rude and insensitive person in the past albeit unintentionally and most often in a light hearted manner. It's a character flaw and saying how she should change what Emil said, even for the sake of some one else's feelings, undermines his character.
I'm not sure why being racist against the Chinese is such an important and eloquent creative pedestal.
Post by: Calidris on June 22, 2016, 11:51:25 PM
It surprises me that so many of you that are offended are completely removing any agency Minna has when it comes this. She spends how many hours a day on a single page? She likely thought about how it applied to Emil's character and whether or not it would be acceptable in-universe, we all know that Emil has been a very rude and insensitive person in the past albeit unintentionally and most often in a light hearted manner. It's a character flaw and saying how she should change what Emil said, even for the sake of some one else's feelings, undermines his character.
Well, it's not that people are ignoring Minna's agency. It's that people are upset that a fairly strong slur that has been used against them and their families, sometimes in threatening, but always in demeaning, ways, is popping up in the midst of a webcomic they love. A webcomic that has been pretty much only fun and welcoming, to boot. To say it's a surprise would be an understatement.
Post by: Iceea on June 22, 2016, 11:52:54 PM
Yes I'm just a crude American :-[ but I should, actually do know better. Having spent time in the military service I've heard a lot of crap like that, and sometimes it was directed at me as a "white boy". It seems to be part of our nature as humans to want to make fun of those who are different so we make up other names for other peoples. Some times just for fun, sometimes trying to be as derogatory as possible to enrage oneself or others to acts of violence against other peoples. And although this is kind of a PC type of problem the reason we have PC is because people forget the history behind racial slurs and the effect those have on the group of people they were aimed at. It will take many generations for the sting, the bitterness, the rage, and the fear to be forgotten. And it will never be truly forgotten...
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 22, 2016, 11:56:06 PM
Also, I want to join others in disagreeing that anyone was denying Minna's agency. From her author comment it's clear that she did not intend to use such an offensive word, and that the word doesn't carry those offensive connotations in her country. So I don't think she sat down and thought "yes, Emil should say a really offensive slur." The comic as it was originally written, with the slur, didn't reflect the tone she was going for.
Post by: GenericNerd on June 22, 2016, 11:58:28 PM
I'm really relieved to see that she edited it. It was started to look like she would double down. Is the new one less offensive? I don't have the background to be able to tell.
Also, I want to join others in disagreeing that anyone was denying Minna's agency. From her author comment it's clear that she did not intend to use such an offensive word, and that the word doesn't carry those offensive connotations in her country. So I don't think she sat down and thought "yes, Emil should say a really offensive slur." The comic as it was originally written, with the slur, didn't reflect the tone she was going for.
Judging by the fact that she genuinely did not expect the reaction it got and didn't initially understand why, I have to agree that she didn't intend to use a racist term.
Post by: saminiemi on June 23, 2016, 12:00:28 AM
Minna has used Emil to say really bad things. He called Lalli a finnjävel. That term is (I guess) on the same level as this term here. It is the worst thing that a swede can use on a finn. And on this case it is used on its actual intension. As an racial insult.The term used here was not used on its racist meaning (on calling people on that name)
What really is happening here is that Emil who is ignorant, racist, and stupid (in a sense of not being wise or educated) is on a journey of learning about people, about himself and about how to be a better persons. For that you have to make him show his ignorant ideas of the world.
So the joke could be changed, perhaps this is also a goog idea, I don't really know. What I do think that people should use some intertextual reading. Not to concentrade on the one word used but at the minimum think about why it is used and perhaps even about the big plot. Words don't usally have meanings of bag and good. Intensions bring those into play.
Is it Minna's intention to belittle chinese people, language or culture? In my opinion not.
Is it Emil's intention to do so? In my opinion not. He has a ingnorant and slightly racist view on people in general.
Edit. It might be that I missed the original, if the version that is up now is changed.
edit 2. Nope, just now saw the new one, that is absolute gibberish. As the original was supposed to be.
Post by: Calidris on June 23, 2016, 12:06:26 AM
I'm really relieved to see that she edited it. It was started to look like she would double down. Is the new one less offensive? I don't have the background to be able to tell. Either way I'm relieved that she is making an effort.
I've never heard it before, so... I'm gonna go with "yes."
Personally, I'd think it was hilarious if Emil had said "Chong Ven" or something similar to the Mandarin pronunciation of "Chinese" and was actually correct... Though it'd be unlikely he'd know that, I suppose.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 12:11:31 AM
Post by: Tr on June 23, 2016, 12:17:02 AM
Also, I want to join others in disagreeing that anyone was denying Minna's agency. From her author comment it's clear that she did not intend to use such an offensive word, and that the word doesn't carry those offensive connotations in her country. So I don't think she sat down and thought "yes, Emil should say a really offensive slur." The comic as it was originally written, with the slur, didn't reflect the tone she was going for.
What really is happening here is that Emil who is ignorant, racist, and stupid (in a sense of not being wise or educated) is on a journey of learning about people, about himself and about how to be a better persons. For that you have to make him show his ignorant ideas of the world.I agree. And yes, it has been changed~ the original word was worse.
Edit. It might be that I missed the original, if the version that is up now is changed.
Post by: saminiemi on June 23, 2016, 12:20:18 AM
I didn't know about the history of "finnjävel." The context does make Emil look like a lot more of an ass for saying it than I originally realized. Since Minna is herself a Swedish-speaking Finn, does that sort of "license" her to use that slur in her work?Uh, no. But if someone is to be described as ignorant and racist, it is ok to use those terms.
What I'm saying that you can' t make a story about KKK where they only use term afro-american. You got have the licence to to use ignorant and racist terms.
In this case it suits just fine to change to term used to something that is not so offensive. But I would have hated it if Minna had used something else when she made Emil call Lalli Förbannande finnjävel. That was real. And builded the character.
Post by: saminiemi on June 23, 2016, 12:25:02 AM
I agree. And yes, it has been changed~ the original word was worse.Ok, good to know. In this instance it is fine as the term used now serves the purpose just fine (in portraying Emil's view on world) and there is no reason to have it said nasty, as emil clearly isn't nasty.
I just hope that this does not affect how Minna will use the terms in the future.
Post by: Piney on June 23, 2016, 12:35:02 AM
(Although I don't understand how it was supposed to show that Emil is ignorant and racist, just part of the running joke that he's uneducated and all that. :?)
Post by: Pupunen on June 23, 2016, 12:35:46 AM
It was also one of those little things that show that some of the stereotypes and attitudes that Nordic people have towards each other survived the apocalypse, and I would also have hated it if that had been changed.
In this case it suits just fine to change to term used to something that is not so offensive. But I would have hated it if Minna had used something else when she made Emil call Lalli Förbannande finnjävel. That was real. And builded the character.
I have to say that today's page and the discussion it sparked have been really educational. Looking at the two terms Minna used, I would not have realized that one of them was much more offensive than the other. They would have seemed equally immature but not horrifyingly racist to me. It's good to be aware that there's a significant difference. (Not that I'd personally use either of them.)
Post by: esme on June 23, 2016, 12:40:05 AM
Post by: saminiemi on June 23, 2016, 12:42:20 AM
It was also one of those little things that show that some of the stereotypes and attitudes that Nordic people have towards each other survived the apocalypse, and I would also have hated it if that had been changed.I Agree fully.
I have to say that today's page and the discussion it sparked have been really educational. Looking at the two terms Minna used, I would not have realized that one of them was much more offensive than the other. They would have seemed equally immature but not horrifyingly racist to me. It's good to be aware that there's a significant difference. (Not that I'd personally use either of them.)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 12:42:34 AM
Post by: Juniper on June 23, 2016, 12:52:50 AM
i didn't see the original before it was edited but it still kinda of disturbs me as a poc. i was already disturbed by a post-apocalyptical story that so far has only shown white peope surviving. It's too bad since i really love this comic. The whole scene feels a bit unecessary and out of place.
Hopefully it might make you feel better to know that according to page 13 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=13) both Madagascar and Japan closed their boarders right after Iceland did, meaning it's likely both Japan and Madagascar are out there doing fine and dandy because as island nations like Iceland it might be a bit easier for them to defend their boarders and be safe, especially Madagascar. I think especially northern Japan probably fared well and still has survivors because it's northern and cold and there's islands up there that can be isolated and kept safe. Only issue is that radio connection in y90 is awful because of all the disturbed spirits tampering with the radio connection so the Nordic nations would have no way of knowing about other far off surviving communities like that :c hopefully we do get to see them at some point
Post by: Jethan on June 23, 2016, 01:00:27 AM
i didn't see the original before it was edited but it still kinda of disturbs me as a poc. i was already disturbed by a post-apocalyptical story that so far has only shown white peope surviving. It's too bad since i really love this comic. The whole scene feels a bit unecessary and out of place.
Well, there are fans from all over the world who know their home much better than Minna ever could, it would makes sense for her to focus on Scandinavia, and they can write or draw what they think would happen to their location if the Rash hit. And what would happen if magical folk lore got involved with it too. I mean, can you imagine the Rash taking out Egypt when they have the Great Sphinx with them?! There's got to be some survivors there!
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 01:04:54 AM
Post by: saminiemi on June 23, 2016, 01:09:13 AM
i didn't see the original before it was edited but it still kinda of disturbs me as a poc. i was already disturbed by a post-apocalyptical story that so far has only shown white peope surviving. It's too bad since i really love this comic. The whole scene feels a bit unecessary and out of place.On this I think we have a different view. I think that this scene and the whole conversation builds all the participating characters. I we look at Emil, he isn't saying it in a "I know, because I'm the smartests people around" face that he used to have, but rather he is enthusiastic and trying to contribute. He has come forward, but still has a way to go in realising his downfalls in knowledge and attitude. Tuuri has clearly still in her "I'm so disappointed on swedes" mood and is acting a bit nasty with her "Gosh". And ofcourse there is the nice exchange between mum and dad.
Post by: Kelpie on June 23, 2016, 01:12:00 AM
Quote from: BlueAmaranth
Interesting point about folklore...it would be really cool if the local folklore of every region manifested the way it did in Scandinavia and Finland. That would definitely say something different about the nature of the rash illness than if it were just all Scandinavian mythology everywhere.I always just kind of assumed that the magic manifested from whatever religious beliefs the individual had. That would make any multi-religion areas veeery interesting for differing mages.
Post by: Tr on June 23, 2016, 01:15:50 AM
I always just kind of assumed that the magic manifested from whatever religious beliefs the individual had. That would make any multi-religion areas veeery interesting for differing mages.Eeep. Soo... if a multi-religion area survived where the religions were less friendly with one another...
MAGE WAR MAGE WAR MAGE WAR!
Post by: saminiemi on June 23, 2016, 01:19:01 AM
Post by: Jethan on June 23, 2016, 02:04:42 AM
I always just kind of assumed that the magic manifested from whatever religious beliefs the individual had. That would make any multi-religion areas veeery interesting for differing mages.
First thought: Comedy gold.
Eeep. Soo... if a multi-religion area survived where the religions were less friendly with one another...
MAGE WAR MAGE WAR MAGE WAR!
Second thought: Oh. Yeah, that might be a problem. Action-adventure comedy gold?
Third thought: Maybe I should go play with this, but I'm not familiar with any religions that would be suited to cool magey-ness. Suggestions? Or just make up antagonistic mages?
Post by: Mistwraith on June 23, 2016, 04:09:38 AM
As for the pages problem itself, the word was intended to show the limit of Reynirs education, and in reflection Turri's, Emils, Sigruns and Mikkels, they all wouldnt have known it WAS a racial slur so no intent was there so it is not, they in all likelyhood have never met anyone of Chinese decent.
On a side note because i cant say it under the page because comments are closed, I'm getting more and more suspicous of Mikkels role in this adventure, he can not only recognise Chinese but say what langauge it likely is, this is much higher education level than i would expect from a Danish farmer who joined the military.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 04:24:23 AM
Minna has used Emil to say really bad things. He called Lalli a finnjävel.
There's a big difference between what happened in today's page and Emil calling Lalli a "finnjävel", even if the words are similarly offensive. There are Finns among the main characters in the comic, and Emil is friends with them, and especially with the one he insulted. As the story unfolds we can see in detail how he really feels about Finns (and he feels pretty damn positive), and don't have to rely on just that one word.
Chinese people however are gone for all intents and purposes in the comic, so we'll never get warm bonding moments between Emil and a Chinese person, like with him and the "finnjävel". Minna not only decided to wipe out their entire nationality (along with everyone who is not white and Nordic), but also brought up Chinese culture for a cheap, ignorant joke and absolutely nothing else. This is not going to be an arc where Emil gets to confront his ignorance and we find out more about Chinese culture in the process (in that case, the use of slurs would be justified). It's just a lazy joke that doesn't tell us anything new about his character, at the expense of an entire culture. I'm upset with Minna right now, not so much because she made a mistake (we all do), but for the way she handled the aftermath. She disabled comments AND took them off today's page, then sneakily changed the comic, instead of having an open, honest discussion about it. I like this comic and I'm grateful to Minna for it, but today has been a mess.
Post by: Unlos on June 23, 2016, 04:50:20 AM
I liked the fact that the book is "All about golf", though.
Post by: saminiemi on June 23, 2016, 05:01:45 AM
There's a big difference between what happened in today's page and Emil calling Lalli a "finnjävel", even if the words are similarly offensive. There are Finns among the main characters in the comic, and Emil is friends with them, and especially with the one he insulted. As the story unfolds we can see in detail how he really feels about Finns (and he feels pretty damn positive), and don't have to rely on just that one word.I can see that you are upset and angry. But I think that you are reading too much to this.
Chinese people however are gone for all intents and purposes in the comic, so we'll never get warm bonding moments between Emil and a Chinese person, like with him and the "finnjävel". Minna not only decided to wipe out their entire nationality (along with everyone who is not white and Nordic), but also brought up Chinese culture for a cheap, ignorant joke and absolutely nothing else. This is not going to be an arc where Emil gets to confront his ignorance and we find out more about Chinese culture in the process (in that case, the use of slurs would be justified). It's just a lazy joke that doesn't tell us anything new about his character, at the expense of an entire culture. I'm upset with Minna right now, not so much because she made a mistake (we all do), but for the way she handled the aftermath. She disabled comments AND took them off today's page, then sneakily changed the comic, instead of having an open, honest discussion about it. I like this comic and I'm grateful to Minna for it, but today has been a mess.
-This is a postapocalyptic story. Most of the Human race has been wiped out. This isn't a racial issue. It is not a cultural issue.
- We know that there is a pocket of survivors in the nordic countries. We do not know about other survivor pockets as the author hasn't told us. But we have been provided with an explanation to why there is no knowledge. Bad communication due troll interference to radiowawes. This kind of set up is very common. "Are we the only survivors". It is a good story plot setup and also a very good way for Minna from keeping the story in a manageable proportions.
Post by: Mistwraith on June 23, 2016, 05:14:27 AM
Ha, it fits my theory that Reynir won't draw it in blood. After page 506 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=506), page 529 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=529) and Minnas explanation on Icelandic and Finnish mages (http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/145663357235/hello-minna-i-hope-youre-having-a-wonderful-day) (and the fact that Onni accuses him of apologizing all the time) I'm more and more convinced/hopeful that Reynir is praying to the wrong gods. There are some hilarious Terry-Pratchett-like conversations going in my head between the Finnish pantheon and the old norse gods where none of them are willing to answer Reynir when a certain other shepherd just sweeps in with "I think this one is mine, actually"I can see it, round the game table in Dunroamin, cough, nope you cant move that piece it is mine ACTUALLY!
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 05:24:24 AM
I can see that you are upset and angry. But I think that you are reading too much to this.
-This is a postapocalyptic story. Most of the Human race has been wiped out. This isn't a racial issue. It is not a cultural issue.
- We know that there is a pocket of survivors in the nordic countries. We do not know about other survivor pockets as the author hasn't told us. But we have been provided with an explanation to why there is no knowledge. Bad communication due troll interference to radiowawes. This kind of set up is very common. "Are we the only survivors". It is a good story plot setup and also a very good way for Minna from keeping the story in a manageable proportions.
I could easily believe it's not a racial issue if we had at least one minor secondary character of a different race. But as it is, it's ambiguous. The way Minna sweeps the topic under the rug and even shuts down comments every time it comes up (like now) doesn't give me much hope.
Yes, we don't know for sure the rest of the world died out. But Minna has made it pretty clear she's not interested in exploring other cultures (every time she talks about the comic she mentions she wanted a post-apoc story *in a nordic setting*) so even if they're not dead, they probably just won't appear in the comic. So, "gone for all intents and purposes" as I said.
Anyway... I don't enjoy feeling angry at SSSS so I'll go find other toys to play with today. I only commented because I felt bad for all the people of Asian descent who were upset to read this in the comic, only to face even more opposition and being told they shouldn't be offended by white people in the comments. It's not our place to tell them if they should be offended or not in matters that concern them. It's just embarrassing and sad all around.
Post by: OrigamiOwl on June 23, 2016, 05:46:43 AM
"gone for all intents and purposes" as I said.Wouldn't "absent" be a slightly better word? Since we don't yet have any concrete information on the actual state of affairs and such outside "the known world". "Gone" to me seems a tad over-loaded for something we don't know yet.
please don't punch me in the face
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 05:58:57 AM
Wouldn't "absent" be a slightly better word? Since we don't yet have any concrete information on the actual state of affairs and such outside "the known world". "Gone" to me seems a tad over-loaded for something we don't know yet.*is optimistic*:3
please don't punch me in the face
Okay, absent if you like. Doesn't make much difference to me.
I was bothered by Minna's approach towards ethnicity in the comic last year too and decided to give her the benefit of doubt back then. Things have not improved since. The possibility of meeting other cultures in the comic hasn't even been vaguely hinted at, and Minna's approach to dealing with the topic in comments actually got worse. You can go ahead and keep being optimistic if you want, but I can't be anymore.
Edit: I didn't see the text in white until I quoted it. If I come off as aggressive, I didn't realize it. I feel strongly about this, but the feeling is disappointment, not anger. I certainly have nothing against you, Owlie.
Post by: Asterales on June 23, 2016, 06:02:52 AM
How did she change the comic?
Post by: Emil on June 23, 2016, 06:06:58 AM
It's just two goofs goofing around being goofy-brained. Don't turn this into a race thing. I get enough of that on other forums.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 06:14:11 AM
I'll take the chance of making you even more angry here, Sc0ut, by asking, but I have absolutely no clue, being late to the party and all.
How did she change the comic?
Emil initially said the language is called "ching chong", as noted in some of the earlier comments here https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_549/newest/
I feel this outrage is very much exaggerated. Note that it isn't Minna being disrespectful, it's the characters and I doubt Minna meant anything malicious by it.
It's just two goofs goofing around being goofy-brained. Don't turn this into a race thing. I get enough of that on other forums.
The people who turned this into a race thing are Asian people who've had this slur used against them. See link above, there are comments by a few of them there. It's fully their right to do so and not your right (or Minna's) to tell them to shut up because it's so inconvenient and tiresome to you. Basic common sense, buddy.
Post by: Superdark33 on June 23, 2016, 06:28:09 AM
And yes, that includes slurs, becuase everyone knows that they are wrong.
Post by: saminiemi on June 23, 2016, 06:38:19 AM
Emil initially said the language is called "ching chong", as noted in some of the earlier comments here https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_549/newest/But this isn't about inconvenience or tiresome. What is being pointed out here is that altough we have an inconsiderate, ignorant and perhaps even racist person (yes I'm talking about Emil here, he is changing but isn't there yet), we can't make him say anything inconsiderate, ignorant or racist because people IRL get offended? Sorry, but I don't get this.
The people who turned this into a race thing are Asian people who've had this slur used against them. See link above, there are comments by a few of them there. It's fully their right to do so and not your right (or Minna's) to tell them to shut up because it's so inconvenient and tiresome to you. Basic common sense, buddy.
Post by: Unlos on June 23, 2016, 07:02:17 AM
But this isn't about inconvenience or tiresome. What is being pointed out here is that altough we have an inconsiderate, ignorant and perhaps even racist person (yes I'm talking about Emil here, he is changing but isn't there yet), we can't make him say anything inconsiderate, ignorant or racist because people IRL get offended? Sorry, but I don't get this.I do believe he can be and say inconsiderate, ignorant and racist stuff, like he did when describing danish to Tuuri, dismissing the battle of Kastrup as sooo lame to Mikkel, and repeatedly dismisses finnish culture. That doesn't bother me, what disturbing me is not really about Emil at all. Although I'm convinced that the point of the page is to show the ignorance of the crew in a funny way, and contrast it to Mikkels knowledge. But, because that particular joke is not funny, but offensive, to a lot of people, I believe Minna can make her point excellently without it.
I can see why she handles the aftermath like she does, as she has previously stated her fear of conflict. Initially she was afraid of even having a comments section, if I remember correctly. That does not make it all right, for me. I completely share Scouts expressed sentiments here. I love and will keep reading the comic, but this issue will likely keep bothering me.
Post by: urbicande on June 23, 2016, 09:07:19 AM
It looks like it's been edited to... Something that's a slight improvement I guess?
I'm not sure why being racist against the Chinese is such an important and eloquent creative pedestal.
Yeah, I think that it's better, but only just.
Post by: Asterales on June 23, 2016, 09:25:50 AM
I can see how someone might be offended by a slur, or in this case, a simple comment made out of ignorance.
But like Mistwraith, I think the intent counts more than the word itself, and like Superdark33, I belive the whole episode was meant to be set right by Mikkel and make us laugh at Emil, first and foremost.
I also really, really don't believe Minna thought it was a 'racist slur'. If she had, she wouldn't have put it in the comic. So it was a mistake on her part. But more one of assessing how it could be seen in a culture different from hers. I can understand this mistake. There are a lot of children's songs that play on sound and, let's face it, for people that can't speak Chinese, this is probably the closest they can come to describing it. These songs are mostly connected to fun and play and positive emotions, because we don't much care about political correctness as children. By bringing this up, I think what Minna wanted to do, was recall this fondness and satisfaction and comfort. And while we are on that, we can't know what is considered racism in other countries.
In Japan, it's not considered racism to ask someone, usually a Caucasian woman, if she is Russian (basically asking if she's a prostitute). In Germany, it is (largely) not considered racist to call someone 'farbig' (coloured). To quote a farbig German friend of mine: "So when I ask you what they look like, you are just going to say they are of normal height, have brown hair and brown eyes? Is that it? *incredulous stare*"
Similarly, I feel fond memories return when I remember the "Mohrenkopf". Why they changed the name is beyond me, as "Mohr" different from its English equivalent (blackamoor) was never considered offensive until you made it. The treat is now called "Schaumkuss" (foam kiss) or, yes, "Dickmann". The change made a lot of people think something along the line of: "But I liked it D: Was it wrong to like it?" I'm not saying it cannot be seen as offensive, but it it is seen as more offensive now, after the change.
You don't think about it.
That doesn't make it an excuse. But it also doesn't make it malicious.
I would also like to point out that Minna went to the trouble of finding an actual Chinese text about golf, rather than make up some gibberish. (It is written in long characters, rather than short, which would mean it is more likely from Hong-Kong or Taiwan, rather than Mainland China, but she tried). She did also not make the characters misidentify the language. She didn't use Japanese or Korean, but actual Chinese.
I, personally, think that shows she cares.
Lastly I would like to point out, that most stories play in only one place and that the absence of other nationalities in SSSS, outside of the five known ones, is only so glaringly obvious, because it doesn't. (And everyone kind of wants to know what happened to 'their' country.) Why should the crew meet other nationalities? It's not like anyone will complain about a film set in a tiny village in Greenland not including enough about the people of Namibia.
While I do think it is important to support the fight against racism and to support those who feel offended, it is not any more possible to dictate people feel offended, than to dictate they don't feel offended. Both sides are valid, as they have valid, if personal and cultural reasons.
But since reasons are so varied, I think the best thing we can do as fans of this comic is accept that not everybody is offended, and that not everybody is okay with it.
We are a big community. And while we like to revel in this fact, we also tend to forget about it, in such cases as this. We meet as humans, not as nationalities, which is great. But sometimes it does make a difference in believes and perceptions, just as much as individual upbringing and experiences do.
And that's all I'm going to say on this topic. :P
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 09:39:01 AM
If I accidentally step on someone's foot and they complain about it, I remove my foot and say "sorry". I don't tape their mouth shut and yell "Shut up, you should know I didn't mean to step on your foot, and besides I don't have time to deal with you now, I'm too busy walking". Her reaction to the criticism comes off as much more disrespectful than the initial mistake. To goof up because you didn't know better is excusable to anyone. To become defensive, refuse to apologize and minimize the issue once you've been explained your mistake... is another thing altogether.
Post by: Asterales on June 23, 2016, 09:54:56 AM
Let's all just hope she becomes better in dealing with these matters. (I suspect insecurity might play into it, too.)
It looks like we still have a long journey ahead of us. This probably won't be the last thing to incur dissent and frustration, but I for one, am really looking forward to work through these incidents with the people on this forum. And in the future, maybe Minna also :)
Post by: Calidris on June 23, 2016, 10:07:22 AM
In terms of meeting other ethnicities, I think that it actually makes perfect sense the way it is now. No one calls out Japanese manga - a much wider category - for primarily focusing on Japan and primarily featuring Japanese characters, despite having many other race and ethnicities living in the country. SSSS, as a comic set in Scandinavia, shouldn't really be considered in any different a regard. The main problem I think comes when other races are shoehorned into things as flags simply saying "Look!! We're diverse!" and doing little else but serving as background.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 10:28:59 AM
If Minna actually does moderate the comments, though, it makes sense to close the thread. From what I've heard, it seems that the comments exploded once the page was uploaded - and given that scenario, the longer the thread is kept open, the more Minna has to do to go through said comments, and the more time she loses from her comic work.
You can see for yourself if the comments exploded here: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_549/newest/ The discussion seems civil to me, and only one comment appears as deleted (we don't even know if it was Minna or the author who deleted it). Anyway, even if the comments absolutely had to be closed because moderation got unmanageable, why not just close down commenting? Why take them off the page completely?
(I wonder what was so unmanageable, btw. People don't seem to be hurling insults around, just respectfully criticizing the comic. Apparently this is what Minna considers "a mess" that needs moderation.)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 11:31:07 AM
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2016, 11:49:25 AM
Also, realizing that you may have that kind of bias can create an internal conflict or crisis, and she may have removed the comment section to try and resolve that. It's not the best way to do it, but it's understandable.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 12:12:05 PM
It may have been a fit of social anxiety on Minna's part, as racism is, among other things, a major social faux pas.
Also, realizing that you may have that kind of bias can create an internal conflict or crisis, and she may have removed the comment section to try and resolve that.
Unfortunately this is not the first time it happens. The issue of race in SSSS was brought up in the comments about a year ago, and Minna waved it away with "don't think too much about it", which left many people unsatisfied. She had plenty of time to think about this, and come up with better ways to approach the topic if she wanted to. Yet, here we are.
Post by: BlueSkyVail on June 23, 2016, 12:15:08 PM
I agree with most people here, that she probably didn't intend it as a racial slur. I also agree that the reaction is disappointing, though I guess I can understand it to some degree. From what I saw as the discussion happened in the comments, there wasn't anything too bad. I'm always amazed at how civil and understanding the discussions in the comments are, and I would have liked to think that for that reason people would have been trusted to talk about this in a calm manner.
But looking at this from a different perspective, I'd be really upset and embarrassed if I was in Minna's place. Even though I don't agree with her reaction, I can certainly see where she is coming from.
Post by: |Yucca| on June 23, 2016, 01:01:59 PM
Unfortunately this is not the first time it happens. The issue of race in SSSS was brought up in the comments about a year ago, and Minna waved it away with "don't think too much about it", which left many people unsatisfied. She had plenty of time to think about this, and come up with better ways to approach the topic if she wanted to. Yet, here we are.
Really thought, there are so few people of colour in Finland at least it's not one bit strange they're not present in SSSS. Her statement of "not thinking much about it" is pretty valid too. You can pretty much live your life even in a big city with very little interaction with people of different ethnic background, especially those with non-European background. No deliberate avoiding or mindsets needed.
Regarding the wording used in the latest page before the change, it might be a loaded racial slur somewhere else, but not knowing it is no crime. It was changed after all. Closing the comment thread might've not been the best way to proceed, but it's Minna's right to choose to keep it there or not. I'm fairly sure Anna is on the right track on the reason of the closure.
Post by: Juniper on June 23, 2016, 02:07:39 PM
It may have been a fit of social anxiety on Minna's part, as racism is, among other things, a major social faux pas.
Also, realizing that you may have that kind of bias can create an internal conflict or crisis, and she may have removed the comment section to try and resolve that. It's not the best way to do it, but it's understandable.
Yeah, as much as I'm incredibly disappointed at this whole situation I'm also a bit concerned too, based on some of her comments it sounds like she has some pretty serious social anxiety so I can imagine she's probably under quite a bit of distress right now over her faux pas. I'd really like to see her own up to her mistake and learn from it but I also hope she's like, okay and everything. Those things are not mutually exclusive, it would be neat if she could own up to her mistake and learn AND be doing okay emotionally but I don't know the likelihood of either of those things ¯\_(0_o)_/¯
Post by: Majski on June 23, 2016, 02:08:24 PM
- regarding finnjävel as a racial slur and Emil being racist, that's not really how I read it, it's more like a britt calling an american a bloody yank in a semi-friendly fashion than the n-word and such insults can off course be offensive but is quite common between all of the Nordic countries together with jokes of the others expense and such. Sweden/Finland aren't really seen as different ethnicities/cultures either other than the language barrier they are a bit like us/canada or england/scottland
- and with minna closing down the comments of the page I can't know her reasons, but it could be related to the fact that tomorrow is midsommar ("summer Christmas") which is one of the most celebrated holidays around here and she might just be too busy preparing to monitor all of the comments in case someone decides to get abusive and has decided to close the comments down preemptively. wither or not this was a good decision or not i can't really say
Post by: Piney on June 23, 2016, 02:39:33 PM
It may have been a fit of social anxiety on Minna's part, as racism is, among other things, a major social faux pas.
Also, realizing that you may have that kind of bias can create an internal conflict or crisis, and she may have removed the comment section to try and resolve that. It's not the best way to do it, but it's understandable.
^Agreeing with this. I'm not saying I'm not still disappointed, but I have pretty bad social anxiety and my first response to being accused of saying something problematic is to get defensive, then embarrassed, before I think to apologize (although considering, it's only happened a couple times). And from what Minna has said about social interaction, her anxiety sounds worse than mine, so I'm giving her some slack. (I acknowledge that mental illness doesn't always excuse problematic behavior buuut I don't think this is the place to go into that)
Post by: Juniper on June 23, 2016, 03:45:31 PM
Post by: Eris on June 23, 2016, 03:51:33 PM
I guess we will see, won't we?
Post by: Calidris on June 23, 2016, 04:17:43 PM
Post by: urbicande on June 23, 2016, 04:23:21 PM
While tumblr admittedly can be an extremely toxic space, I sincerely hope that no one in the SSSS community is so immature and cruel as to send Minna death threats.
It's unlikely to be any of the Minnions.
Actually, as a woman on the internet, it wouldn't surprise me if Minna's already gotten all kinds of trolling.
Post by: JoB on June 23, 2016, 07:30:55 PM
learning from this could prevent her from including more potentially harmful content in the future.I'm afraid that I have a pretty clear idea of how this is going to happen: Minna will avoid referring to any non-Nordic ethnicities again, for fear of a repetition of today's events, and there'll be the occasional comment of "why are all people in the comic white, are you racist!?" for all eternity.
Post by: Eris on June 23, 2016, 07:38:16 PM
I'm afraid that I have a pretty clear idea of how this is going to happen: Minna will avoid referring to any non-Nordic ethnicities again, for fear of a repetition of today's events, and there'll be the occasional comment of "why are all people in the comic white, are you racist!?" for all eternity.You're psychic! :o
Quote from: Minna
If the complaining persist I'll instead change the "curious culture" of these pages and replace it with something closer to home, such as Russian or Greek. They both have alphabets that Reynir could mistake for runes and mountains that Sigrun can be suspicious of.
In the end the volume and sheer aggressiveness of the messages has instilled a notion that there's no room for honest mistakes or benefit of the doubt vis-a-vi cultures that aren't close enough to one's own, so exploring those concepts any further in this comic just doesn't seem worth it.
Post by: IKEA on June 23, 2016, 07:38:43 PM
I'm afraid that I have a pretty clear idea of how this is going to happen: Minna will avoid referring to any non-Nordic ethnicities again, for fear of a repetition of today's events, and there'll be the occasional comment of "why are all people in the comic white, are you racist!?" for all eternity.Heh, people are already doing that on tumblr, unfortunately. Just remember that they're idiots and aren't worth wasting time responding to, as nothing anybody says over the intermet will make them change their mind. (Not addressed specifically to JoB).
Just don't worry about them.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 07:43:19 PM
Then again I didn't see the stuff she received privately, so, I don't know.
I also feel like shutting down the comments for the rest of this scene is just going to make them instantly explode as soon as she puts them up again. Like, it's not going to make it go away, anyone who's still mad is just going to have several more days to simmer about it. And it's frustrating. I like talking about the new pages in real-time with the rest of the fandom, it's fun.
Post by: 0z79 on June 23, 2016, 07:46:24 PM
Heh, people are already doing that on tumblr, unfortunately. Just remember that they're idiots and aren't worth wasting time responding to, as nothing anybody says over the intermet will make them change their mind. (Not addressed specifically to JoB).
Just don't worry about them.
Actually? I've found that saying something like "Whatever, you're just happy to not have to answer for being a rotten piece of shit.. That you know of...." and leave it at that.
Let them think on that for a bit....... :p
Also, about the comments thing? I'm disappointed that this comic is the end of any non-Nordic/Finnish cultural references. I'm thinking about a dwarf comedian (he describes himself as such), blasting people who get offended for the sake of someone else.. similarly, I'm not at all offended by the "Ching-Chong" thing; compared to the crap I grew up hearing from my distressingly ignorant family was far, far worse... but I at least learned the difference between an actual slur and simple lack of knowledge from them., despite their faults, they're my family. I still love them very much and want to see them grow past their shortcomings.
Anyway..... lame.
Post by: Juniper on June 23, 2016, 07:49:53 PM
I don't even remember anyone demanding the removal of the page like she talks about in today's comments. All people were saying was, "you didn't know, but that particular word is a slur in some parts of the world; could you please change it to some other Emil-style mangling of the name that isn't a slur?" And she did that, so what's the problem? I feel like she's basically saying "I'm taking my talking-about-other-cultures ball and going home," when all that needed to be said was "Sorry, I didn't know it was a slur, I changed it."
Then again I didn't see the stuff she received privately, so, I don't know.
I also feel like shutting down the comments for the rest of this scene is just going to make them instantly explode as soon as she puts them up again. Like, it's not going to make it go away, anyone who's still mad is just going to have several more days to simmer about it. And it's frustrating. I like talking about the new pages in real-time with the rest of the fandom, it's fun.
I'm pretty sure what she received privately very likely could have been pretty nasty. Like I said, I wouldn't be too surprised if she got death threats from this based on what I've seen of similar episodes around on the internet. She even said what was said in the comments was much more tame.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 07:54:40 PM
I've never seen that turn out well. However the authors mean it, it comes across like, "you have to uncritically accept however the author chooses to portray or allude to your group, even if it's offensive; you're lucky to get any representation or acknowledgment at all, so don't complain, or even that will be taken away." And the people who were offended feel that their concerns are being dismissed, and end up more upset than they were in the first place.
I think there was an opportunity to defuse this with a simple, no-frills apology, and that opportunity was passed over.
Post by: Eris on June 23, 2016, 07:56:32 PM
I'm disappointed that this comic is the end of any non-Nordic/Finnish cultural references.This makes me so sad, too. I thought the Chinese book was lovely, and it excited me to see it. I don't want this to be the end of cross-cultural references. :(
Post by: ShinyBlueThing on June 23, 2016, 08:02:50 PM
Post by: JoB on June 23, 2016, 08:03:18 PM
I feel like she's basically saying "I'm taking my talking-about-other-cultures ball and going home,"Which, for everyone but herself, is indistinguishable from "oh well, seems I'd better stick to the stuff I know I can do well".
Post by: Marcoreos on June 23, 2016, 08:24:18 PM
aww, now we're never going to see anything about other survivors in other places ): while i can understand why some people got offended, i'm sad that it got to this point :/
Post by: Piney on June 23, 2016, 08:38:14 PM
I mean, I'm sure the private messages were bad, but I think this reaction is just going to fan the flames. I've seen this before. Creator unintentionally does something offensive to a particular group, receives backlash from group in question, responds "I don't want to have to walk on eggshells, so I'm never acknowledging your group in my work again."
I've never seen that turn out well. However the authors mean it, it comes across like, "you have to uncritically accept however the author chooses to portray or allude to your group, even if it's offensive; you're lucky to get any representation or acknowledgment at all, so don't complain, or even that will be taken away." And the people who were offended feel that their concerns are being dismissed, and end up more upset than they were in the first place.
I think there was an opportunity to defuse this with a simple, no-frills apology, and that opportunity was passed over.
Ugh, yes. I've kind of lost my sympathy for Minna at this point because I don't think she's going to make an apology when she even admits it was a mistake and didn't know how offensive terms like that were in other countries/societies. Like, she can't even treat this as a learning curve; the only lesson she apparently got out of it was to not talk about other cultures ever again??? Like, I'm pretty sure that's the opposite thing you're supposed to do when you're being accused of racism.
Obviously she was willing to do the research; she wasn't gonna talk about other countries like they're stereotypes. And I feel like it's not hard to double-check words online to see if they're used as slurs or whatnot, I mean, especially if she's just talking about making jokes here.
*But I'm MUCH more angry at the people on tumblr and other social media outside of the comments who made her think that just shying away from other cultures is the only right thing for her to do. (trust me, I know tumblr and I've seen it happen. People on that website are awful.)
Post by: Basse on June 23, 2016, 08:39:52 PM
It seems to be a popular motif for traditional painting and modern photography.
Post by: BlueSkyVail on June 23, 2016, 08:44:04 PM
So it wasn't the comments that sparked this whole thing- it was other forms of social media. So why does Minna have to keep the comments closed the rest of the week? I feel like keeping us from talking it through civilly will just make the problem last longer. I miss the happy comment conversations about fluffy kitties and happiness. :(
I also feel like this could be a good opportunity for some world-building, but it almost seems like that's been ruled out by Minna's note today. Though I do think that, if things were really as bad as she said they were, people need to calm down a bit. She's said by now that it was an honest mistake. Yes, it was offensive. Yes, it wasn't the best thing for Emil to have said. And yes, Minna could probably clear this up with a simple apology.
But I also think that it's time to remedy the situation and move past it. I'm annoyed at the way she's reacted, but as Piney said, I'm more annoyed at everyone on other social media that have contributed to her need to react this way.
Post by: Sutremaine on June 23, 2016, 08:46:04 PM
Post by: Juniper on June 23, 2016, 08:54:58 PM
Ugh, yes. I've kind of lost my sympathy for Minna at this point because I don't think she's going to make an apology when she even admits it was a mistake and didn't know how offensive terms like that were in other countries/societies. Like, she can't even treat this as a learning curve; the only lesson she apparently got out of it was to not talk about other cultures ever again??? Like, I'm pretty sure that's the opposite thing you're supposed to do when you're being accused of racism.
Obviously she was willing to do the research; she wasn't gonna talk about other countries like they're stereotypes. And I feel like it's not hard to double-check words online to see if they're used as slurs or whatnot, I mean, especially if she's just talking about making jokes here.
*But I'm MUCH more angry at the people on tumblr and other social media outside of the comments who made her think that just shying away from other cultures is the only right thing for her to do. (trust me, I know tumblr and I've seen it happen. People on that website are awful.)
This.
Again, I'm disappointed with her but once I saw that people were reporting the incident to blogs on tumblr that discuss social inequality in media I knew it was going to get out of hand and that she was going to get a lot of nasty messages.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 08:55:30 PM
I'm sad that Minna got nasty comments, that shouldn't ever happen. I'm equally sad that she doesn't seem to have learned anything, despite many people explaining things in an entirely civil manner in the comments. My enthusiasm for this comic just took a nose dive. It suddenly strikes me as bizarre to fawn over a comic that prominently displays the author's culture, when said author cares so little about foreigners that she doesn't even apologize after offending them.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 23, 2016, 08:56:33 PM
Honestly... I'm kind of torn. Yes, Minna really could have handled that better. At least she changed it, but really, an apology would have gone a long way in this case. Then again, I can also understand the feeling of walking on eggshells if she's been getting as much abuse over this as she says she is. I think someone made the analogy of how if you step on someone's foot, you should apologize, even if it was an accident? Except in the internet equivalent, you could step on someone's foot as an honest mistake, make an honest apology and still end up with an internet mob chasing after you with torches and pitchforks.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 09:04:19 PM
Except in the internet equivalent, you could step on someone's foot as an honest mistake, make an honest apology and still end up with an internet mob chasing after you with torches and pitchforks.
If it had gone down just like that, I would have full sympathy. But at this point she hasn't even tried making an honest apology. She shut down discussion completely, silently changed the offending dialogue hours later, and then dropped an author comment with an overtly defensive tone that places all of the blame for the backlash on the readers who had the nerve to take issue with the original page. And even though changing the slur to something else was what most people were asking for in the first place, she framed it in her post like it was just the easiest begrudging concession she could make, rather than a sincere effort to address the problem. Of course people are still going to be upset.
I like SSSS, I like Minna, and I initially gave her full benefit of the doubt that she would handle this gracefully. I figured she most likely didn't know it was a slur and all I expected was "I'm sorry, I didn't know, it's changed." I thought she'd be totally on board with changing it to better fit the lighthearted tone she intended for the page. I'm really disappointed by her reaction. It won't stop me from reading and enjoying the comic going forward, but this whole incident makes me really uncomfortable.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 09:09:10 PM
Except in the internet equivalent, you could step on someone's foot as an honest mistake, make an honest apology and still end up with an internet mob chasing after you with torches and pitchforks.
It's possible, but kind of irrelevant to bring up. That's not what happened here, since there was no apology at all. An apology really goes a long way as you said, even (or especially) with people who are very upset.
I also think that when aggressive people are brought up, there is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The way in which a point is expressed has no bearing on its validity. What Minna did was offensive, and the fact that she got more offense for it doesn't change it in the least. It's not okay that she got attacked, but it doesn't erase what she did.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 23, 2016, 09:15:10 PM
It's possible, but kind of irrelevant to bring up. That's not what happened here, since there was no apology at all. An apology really goes a long way as you said, even (or especially) with people who are very upset.
I also think that when aggressive people are brought up, there is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The way in which a point is expressed has no bearing on its validity. What Minna did was offensive, and the fact that she got more offense for it doesn't change it in the least. It's not okay that she got attacked, but it doesn't erase what she did.
No, it was certainly not my intention to imply that. Thus my point about the apology that wasn't made. But no matter how right you are, there's always such a thing as taking things too far. And taking things too far, no matter which direction, now seems to be the new normal.
Post by: Dire on June 23, 2016, 09:27:57 PM
Though it does give me pause that this apparently isn't the first time something like this happened. I must not have noticed it the first time around as I don't always read the comments. Maybe someone should send Minna a link to Tarol Hunt's Twitter feed and warn her, "whatever you do, you don't want to be perceived like this."
Post by: IKEA on June 23, 2016, 09:37:55 PM
What Minna did was offensive, and the fact that she got more offense for it doesn't change it in the least. It's not okay that she got attacked, but it doesn't erase what she did.What she did was make an honest translation error, not intentionally make that slur. She's just trying to move on, and probably isn't in the best, most rational of moods right now. She's an ordinary person with human flaws, if you made a translation mistake and people were sending you hatemail over it, would your first instinct be to apologize to them? I for one would be pretty pissed.
As for shutting down Disqus for awhile, I can understand it in her position, even if it might not be the wisest thing from our perspective. After all, she just had to lock the comments and deal with hatemail over this, she might not want to deal with having to moderate them for awhike on top of her regular life when yesterday is still fresh in everybody's minds.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 23, 2016, 09:55:25 PM
if you made a translation mistake and people were sending you hatemail over it, would your first instinct be to apologize to them? I for one would be pretty pissed.
If that mistake turned out to be a slur, you bet I would. And gladly. Really, it isn't such a big deal.
She's early 20s, right?
She's 26, her birth year is on the "about" page.
Post by: benbah on June 23, 2016, 09:56:28 PM
Being aware of positive ways to include other societies without offense can be elusive if you have not been exposed to them. The Minnions have educated Minna. She has changed the original offensive comment. I can also see her not realising that an apology would help.
Now is the time of recouperation, finding the strength to keep going and not just saying stuffit and walking away. If Minna does keep the art flowing. She is much stronger than I.
And I don't think I have made any sense. Or improved the chat. O well, yes I have and do talk like this in meatspace.
Post by: GenericNerd on June 23, 2016, 09:57:51 PM
Post by: Calidris on June 23, 2016, 09:59:56 PM
What she did was make an honest translation error, not intentionally make that slur. She's just trying to move on, and probably isn't in the best, most rational of moods right now. She's an ordinary person with human flaws, if you made a translation mistake and people were sending you hatemail over it, would your first instinct be to apologize to them? I for one would be pretty pissed.
THIS. DEFINITELY.
Especially if, as several commenters have noted, Minna may have social anxiety. Not having to deal with the discussion posts for a few days will hopefully give her time to reflect and better understand the kerfuffle.
Also, it's one thing to be told about doing something hurtful and learn from it. It's another to receive hate and threats. The latter is much, much more threatening and less helpful, and honestly, if I were in Minna's situation, I'd also avoid delving into foreign cultures with such a response. I think it's unreasonable to say that she should take this opportunity to learn how to approach other cultures when this attempt resulted in such unproductive responses.... especially when she seems to want to avoid conflict.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 10:05:00 PM
The quickest way to put an end to it would have been a simple, genuine apology coupled with the dialogue change. With the exception of the inevitable small contingent of unpleasable people, I think everyone can understand that she's not immersed in a culture where that word carries hurtful connotations and that she understandably didn't realize it was offensive, any more than I (American) realized that "finnjävel" is offensive until it was pointed out earlier in the thread. And I think everyone gets that the butt of the joke on that page was Emil, not Chinese people or their language or culture. Clearly her intent was not malicious. So it didn't need to be that big of a deal, once the slur was removed.
But the more she responds in ways that are much more difficult to sympathize with, the more her reaction and the backlash to that will blow up way beyond the original faux pas.
Of course it's completely unacceptable that people sent her actual vitriolic hate mail. I don't support that at all.
Post by: Calidris on June 23, 2016, 10:06:14 PM
Treating it as "oh, anglophones are just overly sensitive" when the bulk of the criticism came following actual Chinese fans expressing their dismay is also difficult to take seriously. It seems like an attempt to simply dismiss her own Chinese fans in favor of blaming native English speakers for... Realizing that it's a pretty bad slur?
I rather understood it to mean that she didn't realize how many minefields existed in other English-speaking countries. Which, since she's from a country with less heterogeneity and thus presumably less historical racial tension, is actually really reasonable.
Anyway. As someone Chinese, I do see where Minna's coming from. The joke did use a pretty terrible slur. But the point of the joke was that the slur was incorrect, and thus the intentions behind the joke were not malicious, so it really wasn't a mean joke.
Post by: GenericNerd on June 23, 2016, 10:10:04 PM
But the more she responds in ways that are much more difficult to sympathize with, the more her reaction and the backlash to that will blow up way beyond the original faux pas.
Of course it's completely unacceptable that people sent her actual vitriolic hate mail. I don't support that at all.
Yeah, the response has been needlessly tossing fuel on the fire but man is it awful when people use controversy as a cover to start spreading hate.
Post by: IKEA on June 23, 2016, 10:17:04 PM
Post by: IKEA on June 23, 2016, 10:28:56 PM
I hope Minna continues with the comic. I think I saw the original word and could well use it to describe people who are monolingual. FFS. Write your own multiligual story, if your offeded.It's essentially her life's work at this point from what I can tell, so no worries there. :sigrun:
Post by: fyrekitty7 on June 23, 2016, 10:41:32 PM
I really hope Minna covers other cultures a little bit more, or at least alludes to if there might be more survives out there. I also hope people learn to respect the artist a little more, she's obviously slaving over this comic series and shouldn't be treated so poorly by a subset of her readers over small small mistakes that might be offensive to some people when that was obviously not her intention. There are SO many other stories that are INFINITELY more offensive than this could ever be, and I would really hate for such a great comic series to be damaged by overactive idiots....
This post may indeed annoy people, but things like this really are pretty stupid when you look at it from a neutral POV.
Post by: Paul Ferris on June 23, 2016, 11:01:03 PM
If we assume Minna has a duty to protect her readers (anyone who's studied literature at all knows this is nonsense, but a distressingly large amount of people think it isn't), then some of the initial criticism was clearly justified, but not so much when she's fixed her alleged mistake and crafted a lovely page with no offensive elements whatsoever - you got what you wanted, didn't you? It's not offensive anymore, is it? Why should any rational person expect an apology from the person they've pretty much continually harassed over a single word? Why did everyone need to pile on, when this so-called loving fandom could have simply, quietly, and singly emailed Minna or dropped a (restricted amount of) comment(s) to inform her?
In either case, the grave error committed on p549 was - as @IKEA said above - a translation error. While it was a significant translation error that generated a fairly hateful slur, there wasn't any maleficence behind the action. In judicial terms, there was no mens rae, and only a sliver of actus reus that dissapeared when she replaced the word with something milder. When there is no intent to do wrong, and the wrong act no longer exists, you're stuck whining over the absence of an apology (which is only debatedly deserved, given the vitriol displayed in response to an honest mistake and the maybe/maybe not anxiety on Minna's end) or holding grudges against nonexistent slights.
Neither of those mindsets are healthy. Kick away the pedestal. Relax. Clear your mind. Do you really care that much about the fact that someone disregards anonymous readers who, in her mind, have massively abused her over something she barely noticed?
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 11:03:14 PM
And no, I don't think they deserve an apology from her, typically people don't apologize to people threatening and harassing you.
I don't think any of us are saying she owes an apology to the people who sent her hate mail. She owes an apology to the Chinese readers who were hurt by unexpectedly seeing, in her comic, a slur that they've been maliciously targeted with in real life.
I think someone made an analogy about stepping on someone's foot--even though it's an accident, you still hurt them and the right thing to do is apologize. It's what most of us would do in real life if we accidentally used a slur. "Hey, that's actually a really offensive word." "Oh, crap, I'm sorry! I didn't know!" "No problem, now you know."
It's not like I think she needed to make an elaborate, groveling apology either. Just: I messed up and hurt some readers, it wasn't intentional, I've fixed it, I'm sorry. And I think the vast majority of people would have accepted that. It's not like we want Minna to be unhappy or to beat herself up.
Post by: SignatureSmiley on June 23, 2016, 11:03:36 PM
Post by: fyrekitty7 on June 23, 2016, 11:12:16 PM
I don't think any of us are saying she owes an apology to the people who sent her hate mail. She owes an apology to the Chinese readers who were hurt by unexpectedly seeing, in her comic, a slur that they've been maliciously targeted with in real life.
I think someone made an analogy about stepping on someone's foot--even though it's an accident, you still hurt them and the right thing to do is apologize. It's what most of us would do in real life if we accidentally used a slur--"Hey, that's actually a really offensive word." "Oh, crap, I'm sorry! I didn't know!" "No problem, now you know."
It's not like I think she needs to make an elaborate, groveling apology either. Just: I messed up and hurt some readers, it wasn't intentional, I've fixed it, I'm sorry. And I think the vast majority of people would have accepted that. It's not like we want Minna to be unhappy or to beat herself up.
Yeah, I agree with that, and if I were in her position I would probably do something like what you said, and try to ignore the more extreme messages, but I can also see why she would just prefer to block out social media for now instead if she's upset. I also felt like there were a lot of people saying things like "oh, I feel weird about SSSS now" and such, even that is kinda sad.
((notices my own un-editable typos and cringes))
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 11:15:05 PM
((notices my own un-editable typos and cringes))
This is a sentiment I empathize with so strongly that I'm going to go back and edit the typos out of the quote.
Post by: fyrekitty7 on June 23, 2016, 11:19:23 PM
This is a sentiment I empathize with so strongly that I'm going to go back and edit the typos out of the quote.
hehe, I can't be the only one who misses those sometimes :P
Post by: Róisín on June 23, 2016, 11:42:12 PM
I think Lazy8, Benbah, Ikea and Calidris in particular make good points. And I was very relieved to see today's page, because I more than half expected Minna to shut down the comic over this, and maybe stop drawing altogether, which would be just awful. It's easy for both writers and readers/commenters to underestimate the impact of things put on the internet, especially when something meant to be light-hearted turns out to be a cultural minefield as this did. Both sets of reactions are understandable, if not ideal.
Now, I do not know Minna in person. But I do know several people who have the same 'feel', and we know she is a reclusive person, even if well educated. I would strongly suspect that she is aneurotypical, possibly on the autistic spectrum, and is making a courageous effort both to support herself and build a productive life, and to interact with the world by sharing her art and story. I wholeheartedly applaud this. But she may still be in the position of not entirely 'getting' people. And when one doesn't totally 'get' other people and their likely responses it is all too easy to give major offense without in the least intending to.
And if the comments from this normally civilised group were so incendiary, I shudder to think what other social media are like. Probably outright abuse and death threats. I can understand why she might want to crawl into a hole and pull it in after her. But if I understand Minna correctly (and again this is just my opinion), she is stronger than that, and passionate enough about her work to weather the storm and keep going.
So my suggestion is that we moderate the righteous indignation, step back a little, and give Minna space to process what has happened. I'm not saying that what she said wasn't offensive, just that I don't believe it was intentionally offensive. She was likely as much blindsided by our response as we were by the term used. To those who are demanding an apology: you are more likely to get a sincere one if you let Minna work out, in her own time, what she did that offended people and how to deal with it.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 23, 2016, 11:53:56 PM
I'm not saying that what she said wasn't offensive, just that I don't believe it was intentionally offensive. She was likely as much blindsided by our response as we were by the term used. To those who are demanding an apology: you are more likely to get a sincere one if you let Minna work out, in her own time, what she did that offended people and how to deal with it.
I think everyone on both sides of this discussion acknowledges that it wasn't intentionally offensive. Of course it wasn't.
I wouldn't say I've been "demanding" an apology. I think that the lack of an apology (and I do think one is owed) will incite more anger and hurt feelings, which will put Minna even more on the defensive, and there's a risk that it will turn into a cyclical nightmare of drama. I don't want that. I want to read a cute comic about apocalypse explorers and participate in lengthy character analysis debates.
Post by: Almond-Goddess on June 24, 2016, 01:44:43 AM
Post by: ambersz on June 24, 2016, 03:32:53 AM
I just wanted to appreciate how Minna used the last 2 pages to showcase the incomplete cultural knowledge spanning across eras, from the SSSS gang to whoever ran the shop they're currently in. The shop looks like it sells (or used to sell, I guess) exotic knick-knacks, but in trying to display a traditional painting, they put it in a frame instead of simply hanging the wall scroll. And then there's the book on golf, which in a modern/traditional convention mixup has the pages printed in the traditional right to left direction rather than the modern left-to-right convention, but then typesets the text in the modern horizontal fashion. Even the shopkeeper from the past was just a little bit wrong. It's the small things that really tie the comic together.
Post by: Róisín on June 24, 2016, 04:30:26 AM
Have you found the Introduction thread yet? Why not head over and introduce yourself?
Post by: Thorin Schmidt on June 24, 2016, 10:29:14 AM
I think everyone on both sides of this discussion acknowledges that it wasn't intentionally offensive. Of course it wasn't.
I wouldn't say I've been "demanding" an apology. I think that the lack of an apology (and I do think one is owed) will incite more anger and hurt feelings, which will put Minna even more on the defensive, and there's a risk that it will turn into a cyclical nightmare of drama. I don't want that. I want to read a cute comic about apocalypse explorers and participate in lengthy character analysis debates.
Then take a piece of advice from "Frozen" and Let It Go.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 24, 2016, 10:39:55 AM
Post by: Bobriha on June 24, 2016, 10:52:26 AM
Since the comment section is gone I decided to make an account here. On the page 549 issue..... no comment.
I just wanted to appreciate how Minna used the last 2 pages to showcase the incomplete cultural knowledge spanning across eras, from the SSSS gang to whoever ran the shop they're currently in. The shop looks like it sells (or used to sell, I guess) exotic knick-knacks, but in trying to display a traditional painting, they put it in a frame instead of simply hanging the wall scroll. And then there's the book on golf, which in a modern/traditional convention mixup has the pages printed in the traditional right to left direction rather than the modern left-to-right convention, but then typesets the text in the modern horizontal fashion. Even the shopkeeper from the past was just a little bit wrong. It's the small things that really tie the comic together.
Well, on the bright side the painting probably would be spoiled be it hanged in a traditional manner...
And I also like the face of Mikkel in the last pannel. It seems he thinks the very thought Tuuri just said aloud. "Yeah, the world is huge and diverse. Seeing all these things reminds just HOW huge and diverse it is. There is always hope someone else survived out there but seeng these books and paintings from so far away almost turn hope into confidense"
This is only my opinion but I think this thought was ment to be the main point of the whole episode.
Post by: PTTG on June 24, 2016, 02:05:04 PM
Post by: Yuuago on June 24, 2016, 02:10:57 PM
If you don't see the updated version, you might need to refresh/clear cache.
Post by: Eriaror on June 24, 2016, 02:19:27 PM
P 549* (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=549) has been revised again.That is a most best change. I laughed out loud. :D
Post by: Talimee on June 24, 2016, 02:20:02 PM
P 549* (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=549) has been revised again.
If you don't see the updated version, you might need to refresh/clear cache.
Omg. This is awesome. XD
Post by: Eris on June 24, 2016, 02:24:34 PM
P 549* (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=549) has been revised again.Thanks for the heads up!
If you don't see the updated version, you might need to refresh/clear cache.
I don't know about everyone else, but I really like this change! :D I think it fits really well; it isn't too close to what Tuuri calls it, and it clearly displays Emil's ignorance. I hope that Minna sticks with this page and doesn't change the Chinese to something else.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 24, 2016, 02:29:27 PM
To me, it makes sense as a humorous way Emil could mix things up, without making anyone look at a slur or implying the existence of some really meanspirited tutor in Emil's past. It still alludes to an offensive stereotype, but to me this seems more like the kind of offensive that can stay contained in the story with Emil as the real butt of the joke, rather than the kind of offensive that spills out and upsets people in real life.
Post by: Juniper on June 24, 2016, 02:43:04 PM
EDIT: I've also really been wanting to comment on how happy I am that Minna referenced the Pandemic games in her commentary on yesterday's page, Madagascar as far as I'm concerned is impossible to infect with any plagues. After all they did close off right after Iceland according to the news on page 13 and it's pretty sunny there so I'm positive the human population on Madagascar is doing dandy right now.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 24, 2016, 02:59:14 PM
I've also really been wanting to comment on how happy I am that Minna referenced the Pandemic games in her commentary on yesterday's page, Madagascar as far as I'm concerned is impossible to infect with any plagues. After all they did close off right after Iceland according to the news on page 13 and it's pretty sunny there so I'm positive the human population on Madagascar is doing dandy right now.
But did we ever find out the nationality of the original rash victims? As anyone who's played the game knows, the only sure way to infect Madagascar...is to have your pandemic start there. [spooky music intensifies]
Post by: Yuuago on June 24, 2016, 03:03:37 PM
EDIT: I've also really been wanting to comment on how happy I am that Minna referenced the Pandemic games in her commentary on yesterday's page, Madagascar as far as I'm concerned is impossible to infect with any plagues. After all they did close off right after Iceland according to the news on page 13 and it's pretty sunny there so I'm positive the human population on Madagascar is doing dandy right now.
Yes.
Someone should fic this. : D
Post by: BlueSkyVail on June 24, 2016, 03:20:11 PM
P 549* (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=549) has been revised again.I also am a fan of this change. ;D It, unlike the other two, made me laugh.
If you don't see the updated version, you might need to refresh/clear cache.
Post by: urbicande on June 24, 2016, 03:31:59 PM
Post by: Iceea on June 24, 2016, 03:43:27 PM
Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. Let us all meet there.
Rumi
Post by: saminiemi on June 24, 2016, 03:58:16 PM
Post by: Tr on June 24, 2016, 05:07:08 PM
P 549* (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=549) has been revised again.Better!
If you don't see the updated version, you might need to refresh/clear cache.
But did we ever find out the nationality of the original rash victims? As anyone who's played the game knows, the only sure way to infect Madagascar...is to have your pandemic start there. [spooky music intensifies]Headcanon: this is a year 90 conspiracy theory.
The government lied! They knew where the first rash victims were from! Madagascar! Madagascar, I tell you!
Post by: Róisín on June 24, 2016, 06:01:06 PM
Post by: Sutremaine on June 24, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Post by: Rykka on June 24, 2016, 08:59:50 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 24, 2016, 09:08:40 PM
Sorry, I know this is probably posted in a million places but I can't find it through a forum search and it's hard to look everywhere on phone... how does one do the cache thing to show the new version of the page...?
If you're using Firefox, you can go to the History tab and select "Clear Recent History", then uncheck everything but the "Cache" option. (Web search revealed something different, but I kept pushing the button and it kept not doing anything.)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 24, 2016, 09:23:01 PM
Sorry, I know this is probably posted in a million places but I can't find it through a forum search and it's hard to look everywhere on phone... how does one do the cache thing to show the new version of the page...?
Holding down shift on your keyboard and reloading the page is the first thing to try. Do that a couple of times and if it doesn't fix it, then move on to the more technical fixes.
On another matter, on the same page I hope Kitty is just yawning, and not issuing a warning yowl...
Post by: vangarian on June 24, 2016, 09:58:16 PM
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 24, 2016, 10:49:05 PM
Hooray, we did it! We made her conform to Anglo cultural norms. Got to love that anti colonialism.
You make it sound like it's a bad thing that she changed it. Do you think she intended to have Emil use a slur that's deeply offensive to many of her readers? Of course she didn't. She had no idea it was offensive. I think she makes it pretty clear in her comments under 549 and 550 that she was going for a lighthearted tone--a tone completely incompatible with having a great big racial slur sitting in the middle of the page.
Should everyone have just awkwardly shuffled their feet and let her go obliviously on her way, with that racial slur sitting in the archives and upsetting new readers every day, when she wasn't trying to upset anyone in the first place? It'd be like not telling someone their fly is open.
The current version of the page absolutely nails both the joke and the lighthearted tone. It's much more consistent with the overall atmosphere of the comic than it was before. It's a complete improvement.
I know if I were writing something for an audience that spans several countries, and I accidentally included a word that had a completely different connotation for many of them than I intended to convey, I would want to know immediately.
Post by: Yuuago on June 24, 2016, 11:03:22 PM
Sorry, I know this is probably posted in a million places but I can't find it through a forum search and it's hard to look everywhere on phone... how does one do the cache thing to show the new version of the page...?
I'm not sure... hopefully one of the suggestions will help. But in case you don't find out how to clear it, I've uploaded the page to imgur. Is it visible here?
http://i.imgur.com/5eax5hY.jpg
Hooray, we did it! We made her conform to Anglo cultural norms. Got to love that anti colonialism.
Are you honestly whining because people are happy that a slur was changed to something milder? Wow.
Post by: urbicande on June 25, 2016, 12:16:57 AM
Hooray, we did it! We made her conform to Anglo cultural norms. Got to love that anti colonialism.
You say that like it's a bad thing that the page was changed to take out a racial slur that offended a great many people.
Post by: Athena on June 25, 2016, 12:22:20 AM
Are you honestly whining because people are happy that a slur was changed to something milder? Wow.
You say that like it's a bad thing that the page was changed to take out a racial slur that offended a great many people.
I would say remember the first rule and stay silent when trolls are about. ;)
Post by: Kelpie on June 25, 2016, 12:30:33 AM
Quote from: Luth Nightbreeze
I would say remember the first rule and stay silent when trolls are about. ;)You took the words right out of my mouth.
Post by: Asterales on June 25, 2016, 01:51:26 AM
I also believe this is a positive one. Just like that painting of the mountains. Because it's not like this is the only kind of painting produced in China. There is modern art, too. But nobody is going to complain about that stereotype, right? Japan is innovative and loves simple design and its people are terribly polite, Germany is environmental friendly and rich, while we remember Hitler we eat Baumkuchen with Sauerkraut and drink liters of tasty beer, occasionally jumping into our Lederhosen to have a little fun. Oh. And Japanese can't speak English, because they can't even differentiate between "l" and "r" and they are absolute perverts...
... the positive stereotypes aren't necessarily more true than the negative ones, you know?
We kind of do need stereotypes or we wouldn't know what in star-unfolding beauty is going on around us. The thing is, that you are supposed to amend them as you deal with them.
I think Minna's actions speak loud enough to forgive her. A formal apology à la "I'm sorry" seems to be the only way to apologise in anglophone countries (yes, I'm dredging that up again, because it is actually one feature of the culture that goes along with the English language, which never ceases to befuddle me), but I think it would only make her apology more explicit. After all, she has already admitted to making a mistake and accepted the consequences of it.
And might I mention, I'm sooooooo happy that she didn't completely redesign this page! I'm glad she stuck with China, because it is such an interesting country. :D
(Although thinking of China when thinking of Asia is itself a stereotype and she could have gone with, say, Thailand, which has a very fancy script :P)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 25, 2016, 02:10:50 AM
And might I mention, I'm sooooooo happy that she didn't completely redesign this page! I'm glad she stuck with China, because it is such an interesting country. :D
Not to mention the fact that we'd probably lose Sigrun talking about fruit.
Post by: Asterales on June 25, 2016, 02:17:24 AM
Not to mention the fact that we'd probably lose Sigrun talking about fruit.Exactly! That would have been a huge loss!
Post by: Jethan on June 25, 2016, 02:19:06 AM
A formal apology à la "I'm sorry" seems to be the only way to apologise in anglophone countries (yes, I'm dredging that up again, because it is actually one feature of the culture that goes along with the English language, which never ceases to befuddle me)...
I didn't know that was specific to anglophone countries, interesting. I can definitely see it as a common thing in my culture, but I didn't know it was different elsewhere. Personally, I agree that the actions speak louder than any words in apology, but then again I'm a task-oriented person and not very verbal, so there might be some personality stuff to that.
(I once dreampt the SSSS crew traveled the world and they found survivors in Thailand!)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 25, 2016, 02:38:51 AM
Not to mention the fact that we'd probably lose Sigrun talking about fruit.
Yeah, that would really depress me! That panel was fantastic. I actually laughed out loud, and I only laugh out loud at the very funniest things when I'm alone.
Post by: Asterales on June 25, 2016, 04:38:48 AM
(I once dreampt the SSSS crew traveled the world and they found survivors in Thailand!)I wish I could have seen that dream! I bet it was super interesting. Why don't I ever dream of the crew? *sniff* (Deep down in still hoping that one of the last things we see on page, so to say, is the Known World making contact with other survivors. Though how they would communicate, I have no clue.)
About the other thing, I do feel it is more common in anglophone culture, but it is also definitely getting more common everywhere else, what with the influx of translations and globalisation in general.
Post by: saminiemi on June 25, 2016, 09:07:56 AM
We had a arrogant, ignorant and even racist person in Emil, who was on a journey to become something else by meeting people from different cultures. The very opposite of racist slur.
Now we have have a comic relief in Emil. How stupid he is. Complexity turned into stupidy. And all this because fan pressure to author became too strong.
I hate if this storyline gets axed or turned into easy solutions because of this episode.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 09:19:51 AM
I have been thinking about this. I do like the kung fu pun, but sadly it changes how the character has been portrayed so far. I have mentioned my point of view in his thread before, so I'll be short.
We had a arrogant, ignorant and even racist person in Emil, who was on a journey to become something else by meeting people from different cultures. The very opposite of racist slur.
Now we have have a comic relief in Emil. How stupid he is. Complexity turned into stupidy. And all this because fan pressure to author became too strong.
I hate if this storyline gets axed or turned into easy solutions because of this episode.
I think that the difference is whether or not Emil is being racist towards the people of his world. That "finnjavel" back in Chapter 5, as I learned from this very thread, was apparently also a slur, but toward someone he has to work with on a day-to-day basis, Lalli the Finn. Same thing with his "so lame" comment and Mikkel. Those unthinking and insensitive remarks are where Emil's character development needs to come in. By contrast, the recent pages involved them looking at relics, no actual people around to take offense, and we have yet to see any Chinese characters in-universe, so the only people that remark was going to alienate were the readers. From a writing standpoint, that's really not something you want.
Post by: saminiemi on June 25, 2016, 10:05:27 AM
I think that the difference is whether or not Emil is being racist towards the people of his world. That "finnjavel" back in Chapter 5, as I learned from this very thread, was apparently also a slur, but toward someone he has to work with on a day-to-day basis, Lalli the Finn. Same thing with his "so lame" comment and Mikkel. Those unthinking and insensitive remarks are where Emil's character development needs to come in. By contrast, the recent pages involved them looking at relics, no actual people around to take offense, and we have yet to see any Chinese characters in-universe, so the only people that remark was going to alienate were the readers. From a writing standpoint, that's really not something you want.My point is that Emil has clearly been raised to look down to all the other cultures. New world and the old world a like. Now he is nor allowed to show his ignorance towards the cultures that he thinks that are extinct. Because of IRL reasons. I don't get it.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 10:24:33 AM
My point is that Emil has clearly been raised to look down to all the other cultures. New world and the old world a like. Now he is nor allowed to show his ignorance towards the cultures that he thinks that are extinct. Because of IRL reasons. I don't get it.
He is still showing his ignorance towards extinct cultures, both here and with the "gramophone" incident. He still got it dreadfully wrong, didn't he? The difference is that he got it wrong in a way that was much funnier. Because the thing is... if you want a storyline where Emil learns from his mistakes, there has to be a means for him to correct those mistakes, and that's not going to happen if the slur in question is so obscure in the context of his own universe that everyone around him is also ignorant of its meaning. When he made potato-in-mouth joke about spoken Danish, it ended with a few actual Danes glaring daggers at him, and Emil suffering severe embarrassment in turn. When he said that the Battle of Kastrup was "so lame", Mikkel was right there to tell him how much of an insensitive prick he was being. When he made remarks about "primitive" Finland, Tuuri corrected him. In this case, though, there aren't any Chinese people around to call him out; the audience can't reach through the screen. Besides, if the race itself is gone, why should the slur have stuck around?
He's also never before given any indication that he actually looks down on Old World cultures - he has to be aware that they were more technologically advanced, after all. He just doesn't know a whole lot about them. The only time we've ever seen Emil's thoughts on the Old World is when he demonstrated his ignorance of what a DVD is, and that was a whole lot more fascination than his usual smug superiority.
Post by: saminiemi on June 25, 2016, 10:38:39 AM
This isn't a fair game where you have to compensate for the IRL cultures if they are offended by a character. For all we know we might have story curve where Emil says on page 2578 that "Boy I was a total jerk before this mission". And that would be fine and enough.
My point is that we should give Minna FULL freedom on how to develop the story and the characters.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 10:57:01 AM
I agree that this is funnier. I laughed when I saw this change.
This isn't a fair game where you have to compensate for the IRL cultures if they are offended by a character. For all we know we might have story curve where Emil says on page 2578 that "Boy I was a total jerk before this mission". And that would be fine and enough.
My point is that we should give Minna FULL freedom on how to develop the story and the characters.
When has anyone ever said they were offended by Emil's character? :? And I really think that you're missing my point here. Are you saying that giving an artist creative freedom should mean not telling her if she makes a mistake, and letting her keep on making that mistake in blissful ignorance while real people get hurt? :? Look, it doesn't justify the attacks on her and the amount of abusive vitriol she's received over this is disgusting, but when people make a faux pas, they generally want to know about it! Going by her notes she wasn't aware when she posted it that the original term was such a bad slur; her intent was "playful ribbing" and if that's not the way it was coming across to the audience, don't you think she'd want to know about it? When there's such a dissonance between the way a scene was intended and the way it was perceived, surely letting the artist know as much doesn't amount to stifling her creative freedom; quite the opposite, in fact. And, to repeat myself just so my meaning is very clear: I am in no way saying that the personal attacks were justified. But I don't get the number of people saying that no one should even be allowed to point out "Hey, you do know that word is really racist, right?"
Post by: vangarian on June 25, 2016, 11:18:01 AM
I am skeptical to this kind of thing when someone was bullied into attempted suicide over this kind of thing.
I know if I were writing something for an audience that spans several countries, and I accidentally included a word that had a completely different connotation for many of them than I intended to convey, I would want to know immediately.
Why should an artist change her work for any reason. Should "L'Origine du monde" be covered up with a fig leaf because it offends some people.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 11:42:11 AM
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/zamii070-harassment-controversy
I am skeptical to this kind of thing when someone was bullied into attempted suicide over this kind of thing.
Why should an artist change her work for any reason. Should "L'Origine du monde" be covered up with a fig leaf because it offends some people.
Oh, for-! What I'm saying, what I've been trying to say all along, is that there is a happy medium between pandering to every last person with an entitlement complex who has a problem with your work, and sticking your fingers in your ears and humming loudly every time anyone tells you you're less than perfect, but unfortunately the internet and modern society in general is all too fond of extremes. I don't endorse this sort of bullying. I don't think anyone on this forum has endorsed this sort of bullying, and it's certainly not right that Minna has been receiving attacks of this nature, probably before she was even aware that there was a problem. But if a large portion of your audience--not outsiders but your target demographic, the people who've been with you from the beginning, who know and love your work--takes issue with something you've done in a way that doesn't amount to "It's just not my cup of tea," it might help you in the long run if you listen, and take their concerns into account. Minna did that and changed the page, and the joke came out much funnier for it. But unfortunately real constructive criticism all too often seems to get lost between the echo chamber and the bullying.
Post by: Róisín on June 25, 2016, 12:00:16 PM
Both you and Saminiemi make good points. I do think the point of 'this is offensive language, we'd really like if you changed it' could have been made with a deal less yelling and vitriol. Might have got a better result!
Yes, artists need to be informed if their work crosses the boundary of what is acceptable. But I know how I would respond if somebody making such a criticism of my work opened their attack by insisting that I formally and publicly apologise and make contrition before the baying mob. Whereas if they approached the problem in terms of 'Hey, thought I ought to let you know that such a thing you said is very offensive to soandsuch a culture, (or is a very filthy word in that language, or whatever the problem is), and you might want to change it before your readers melt down', I would be much more inclined to respond sympathetically. And change whatever it was. And apologise. Though as has been mentioned, the public 'I'm sorry!' Tends to be more an anglophone thing.
Post by: vangarian on June 25, 2016, 12:01:18 PM
the people who've been with you from the beginning, who know and love your work--takes issue with something you've done in a way that doesn't amount to "It's just not my cup of tea," it might help you in the long run if you listen, and take their concerns into account.
problem here is that a vocal group of people Decided that they were the arbiters of morality and got an artist to change their work. "Its not my cup of tea, change it!"
Post by: Gwenno on June 25, 2016, 12:06:01 PM
Please, to the new people and old, think before posting. There has been so much said on the topic already, both in earnest, and in things which seem dangerously close to trying to pick fights for the sake of it. We all have very strong opinions about this, and they have been expressed. So please do not disregard what other people have been telling you, doing so is disrespectful, and discussion will never progress properly that way. I know we can be better than this.
Post by: kjeks on June 25, 2016, 12:13:05 PM
problem here is that a vocal group of people Decided that they were the arbiters of morality and got an artist to change their work. "Its not my cup of tea, change it!"
Welcome to the forum, it would be lovely to see whom we are discussing with. Maybe you can leave some information over in our Introduction Thread (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=131.0). Thank you very much :).
Post by: Hrollo on June 25, 2016, 12:46:38 PM
Post by: Róisín on June 25, 2016, 12:53:25 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 12:54:16 PM
problem here is that a vocal group of people Decided that they were the arbiters of morality and got an artist to change their work. "Its not my cup of tea, change it!"
No, it's a whole lot more serious than "It's not my cup of tea." "It's not my cup of tea" means "There's nothing objectively or morally wrong with it, but I personally don't find it interesting." Back in Chapter 10, we had a troll come on the comments section and start whining about how slow the pacing was and how "nothing ever happened", when Minna had made quite clear from the beginning that her comic was a character-based story with a focus on friendship - that was a case of "It's not my cup of tea, change it!", and was rightly panned. Here, there was a moral issue. It was "this word is a slur." There was also an objective issue. It was "it's at odds with the tone you're trying to convey." If Minna really were pandering as much as you claim she was? She would have cut the whole scene, as some people were apparently demanding of her. But she didn't. As a matter of fact, she flatly refused to cave to such demands. Saying "Hey, this slur applies to me and I find it hurtful" - honestly, civilly, without insults, as a fair number of people in the comments were doing before Minna shut them down - is not being an "arbiter of morality", whatever you think that means. It's a request for respect. It's constructive criticism. And I find it honestly disturbing that you seem to think that artists should silence their critics - and I'm talking about genuine critics, not bullies, because there have been some of both. No one should have to cave to bullies, but every creator would do well to listen to constructive criticism regardless of whether or not they actually decide to follow it, because if they don't listen when people point out mistakes, then nobody is ever going to improve.
Lazy8: as to how those words would have stuck around: I know several English and Australian nursery rhymes that contain them, and have heard a Dutch one from Indonesia of similar type, and heard of numerous others from different language groups. Children's culture is surprisingly enduring, and preserves data and attitudes fron hundreds of years ago. I mean, I wouldn't sing 'Ching Chong Chinaman' to a Chinese, any more than I would sing 'A Yard of Orangeman's Skin' to a Protestant or 'Catholic Dogs' to a Catholic, indeed I wouldn't sing them at all, but such things are out there. Also, you'd be horrified at what may turn up in libraries. Or folklore collections. Or just in the conversation of narrow, ignorant people.
Both you and Saminiemi make good points. I do think the point of 'this is offensive language, we'd really like if you changed it' could have been made with a deal less yelling and vitriol. Might have got a better result!
Yes, artists need to be informed if their work crosses the boundary of what is acceptable. But I know how I would respond if somebody making such a criticism of my work opened their attack by insisting that I formally and publicly apologise and make contrition before the baying mob. Whereas if they approached the problem in terms of 'Hey, thought I ought to let you know that such a thing you said is very offensive to soandsuch a culture, (or is a very filthy word in that language, or whatever the problem is), and you might want to change it before your readers melt down', I would be much more inclined to respond sympathetically. And change whatever it was. And apologise. Though as has been mentioned, the public 'I'm sorry!' Tends to be more an anglophone thing.
Good point, I had not thought of that. And yes, I have found people much more willing to listen and change their behavior if someone politely points out that they unintentionally said something racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. than if an angry mob immediately leaps down their throats. Going back once again to the stepping-on-foot analogy: yes, it is right to apologize rather than getting immediately defensive and saying "Well you shouldn't have been in my way." But if everyone else on the street immediately starts screaming death threats at you, before you'd even realized that you'd stepped on someone's foot? I can understand how, rather than an apology, someone would react by going on the defensive, "It's not like I did it on purpose, there's no need to string me up by my thumbs!" No one learns anything, nothing is fixed. Some people will be deliberately horrible, and that's awful. But people make honest mistakes too.
Post by: Juniper on June 25, 2016, 07:26:07 PM
One of them looks like a baby's footprint, the other two look like, ah, jelly fish or octopus maybe ?
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 07:36:26 PM
Sooo not trying to derail the conversation at all, some pretty important things are being said especially by Lazy8 and Gwenno and I thank you for what you've had to say, but I can't help but notice there are some interesting paintings on page 550, the smaller ones below the one of the mountains.
One of them looks like a baby's footprint, the other two look like, ah, jelly fish or octopus maybe ?
No, please, derail away! I just made the extreme mistake of looking up some of the tumblr vitriol and I don't think this stomachache is ever going to go away now...
With you on the baby footprint; the other two pretty much look like Rorschach blobs. Like, an 'I-didn't-feel-like-drawing-this' scribble, so it came out as a... scribble.
Post by: Yuuago on June 25, 2016, 07:40:13 PM
I can't help but notice there are some interesting paintings on page 550, the smaller ones below the one of the mountains.
One of them looks like a baby's footprint, the other two look like, ah, jelly fish or octopus maybe ?
/Squints
Looks like scribbles to me.
When in doubt, it's ~modern art~. ;p
Post by: Juniper on June 25, 2016, 08:08:32 PM
No, please, derail away! I just made the extreme mistake of looking up some of the tumblr vitriol and I don't think this stomachache is ever going to go away now...
With you on the baby footprint; the other two pretty much look like Rorschach blobs. Like, an 'I-didn't-feel-like-drawing-this' scribble, so it came out as a... scribble.
I don't know about you guys but I get the Rorschach inkblot affect with a lot with SSSS. Maybe it's just because I spend too much time looking at the pages or what.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 25, 2016, 08:34:07 PM
I just made the extreme mistake of looking up some of the tumblr vitriol and I don't think this stomachache is ever going to go away now...
Yeah, some of them don't seem to get that the joke was "the team know very little about outside cultures and Emil is an ignorant ass," not "ha ha, Chinese looks and sounds weird." Oh well. The nastier people will find someone new to harass before long.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 08:52:44 PM
Yeah, some of them don't seem to get that the joke was "the team know very little about outside cultures and Emil is an ignorant ass," not "ha ha, Chinese looks and sounds weird." Oh well. The nastier people will find someone new to harass before long.
Though come to think of it, I'm also giving Mikkel the side-eye for knowing too much. Hm...
Post by: Juniper on June 25, 2016, 09:06:54 PM
Though come to think of it, I'm also giving Mikkel the side-eye for knowing too much. Hm...
You're not the only one. I actually know quite a few people who for a while have been suspicious of his character that he's hiding something or there's something going on with him we don't know about. I don't know if you saw but I was talking about this with Róisín in one of the threads recently, actually I think it was this one a few pages back, that considering this mission which is all about lying to the government for funds to illegally traffic pillaged books which is already devious and sneaky, it makes sense that someone might be doing even more devious sneaky stuff on the side. Not necessarily bad or evil just like the mission itself despite being devious and sneaky isn't bad or evil, just someone with ulterior motives might be around and if it's not Mikkel it might be Taru or Trond or any combination of those three.
I'm watching them.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on June 25, 2016, 09:24:44 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 09:34:03 PM
You're not the only one. I actually know quite a few people who for a while have been suspicious of his character that he's hiding something or there's something going on with him we don't know about. I don't know if you saw but I was talking about this with Róisín in one of the threads recently, actually I think it was this one a few pages back, that considering this mission which is all about lying to the government for funds to illegally traffic pillaged books which is already devious and sneaky, it makes sense that someone might be doing even more devious sneaky stuff on the side. Not necessarily bad or evil just like the mission itself despite being devious and sneaky isn't bad or evil, just someone with ulterior motives might be around and if it's not Mikkel it might be Taru or Trond or any combination of those three.
I'm watching them.
A lot of people have been very suspicious of Mikkel for a very long time, and I could myself among them. Here, here's a paraphrased and abbreviated version of the list I put up on the Tropes Wiki:
- Has a ridiculous degree of expertise on Rash but is curiously deficient at other pretty basic aspects of his job (it's just as well that Sigrun doesn't mind a few scars)
- Was "relocated" just prior to Kastrup - note that he never confirms that he was actually fired even though that's how Sigrun interpreted it
- This page. (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=201) Sigrun's making fun of him right there and he's still smiling. He's placidly endured a lot of her verbal barbs and a lot of Emil's unthinking idiocy, but this is the only time he actually looks happy about it. Hm, it almost looks like he's glad that Sigrun is being an attention hog here, that way he doesn't get pressed for answers about his past...
- We've at least had some hints at the rest of the crew's backstory - at the very least, we know how they came to join the mission. Tuuri and Sigrun jumped, Lalli got dragged, Emil was recruited by relatives, Reynir probably should have stayed home, and Mikkel... knew Trond? Seriously, that's all we know. Plus Trond can be kinda shady himself, and we don't know why he wanted in on this either...
- And now, we have this. He knows what Chinese looks like, not that I'd expect much from most of the other people on this crew, but he got closer even than Tuuri, the academic who's bursting to learn about the outside world. Seriously, why would a Danish farmer know something like that in a post-apocalypse?
Bornholm survived the outbreak with all its infrastructure and institutions intact. Mikkel probably went to the same schools his family has been attending for two or three centuries, and almost certainly learned a great deal about the Old World there. As Denmark is specifically mentioned here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=67) as "hoarding and studying old documents", I'm not surprised at Mikkel's knowledge at all.
Point. But you know, conspiracy theories are so much more fun...
Post by: Juniper on June 25, 2016, 09:49:44 PM
A lot of people have been very suspicious of Mikkel for a very long time, and I could myself among them. Here, here's a paraphrased and abbreviated version of the list I put up on the Tropes Wiki:
- This page. (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=201) Sigrun's making fun of him right there and he's still smiling. He's placidly endured a lot of her verbal barbs and a lot of Emil's unthinking idiocy, but this is the only time he actually looks happy about it. Hm, it almost looks like he's glad that Sigrun is being an attention hog here, that way he doesn't get pressed for answers about his past...
YES thank you that page and that specific moment have been making me kinda suspicious for a while too. I don't know what it is, but the shift in color schemes between the second panel to monochrome in the third right after Sigrun's done making fun of him and he smiles and agrees. That very well could be over thinking because there are plenty of other times the comic does this especially in the earlier chapters of having a color scheme jump like that between panels, but I still found considering the things about the page you pointed out that the sudden shift in the mood of the colors to be a little unsettling.
Point. But you know, conspiracy theories are so much more fun...THEY ARE THOUGH
plus if we do end up somehow being right then we'll have earned bragging rights ;)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 25, 2016, 09:57:16 PM
Though come to think of it, I'm also giving Mikkel the side-eye for knowing too much. Hm...
An interesting thought! But on my end I'm still not clear on whether the "written Mandarin" thing was intentionally Mikkel getting it slightly wrong, or whether Minna intended him to be suspiciously spot-on.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on June 25, 2016, 09:59:26 PM
Point. But you know, conspiracy theories are so much more fun...
THEY ARE THOUGHOh, well then, obviously Mikkel is an agent of the Trilateral Commission, operating out of their secret moon base where they took refuge from the Rash...
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 10:02:35 PM
YES thank you that page and that specific moment have been making me kinda suspicious for a while too. I don't know what it is, but the shift in color schemes between the second panel to monochrome in the third right after Sigrun's done making fun of him and he smiles and agrees. That very well could be over thinking because there are plenty of other times the comic does this especially in the earlier chapters of having a color scheme jump like that between panels, but I still found considering the things about the page you pointed out that the sudden shift in the mood of the colors to be a little unsettling.
Hm, you're right about that. It's almost as if Minna wanted to draw our attention to that panel right there...
Oh, well then, obviously Mikkel is an agent of the Trilateral Commission, operating out of their secret moon base where they took refuge from the Rash...
Illuminati I say!
And on another topic, I was also surprised that Sigrun actually knew about different kinds of fruit, and it's adorable how proud of herself she is for that. (Darn it, Sigrun, what did I just say about being so cute?) Explains how she's managed to avoid scurvy at least. (Seriously can you picture how bad the scurvy would have to get before Sigrun would eat something she doesn't want to eat?)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 25, 2016, 10:04:38 PM
Also, I love the implication that Sigrun just eats lemons straight.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 10:17:57 PM
I forgot to say in my last post, but, I also thought that monochrome panel stuck out when I last went through the archives. I doubt it's going to be anything super edgy, but I definitely get the impression that something shady went on that he prefers not to share.
Yaaaaaaaaaas. Half the fun of this theory is trying to come up with something that's non-sinister enough to justify the whole friendship theme of the comic, but still has a reason to be kept secret... maybe the cure was his mission all along?
Quote
Also, I love the implication that Sigrun just eats lemons straight.
Yep, I got that implication too. Adorable and hardcore.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on June 25, 2016, 10:32:13 PM
Also, I love the implication that Sigrun just eats lemons straight.
Yep, I got that implication too. Adorable and hardcore.So did Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson, Lt. Gen., CSA.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 25, 2016, 10:37:20 PM
Post by: IKEA on June 25, 2016, 10:38:39 PM
Post by: GenericNerd on June 25, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
And I also sort of just want him to have read a lot as a kid on the farm.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 25, 2016, 10:40:33 PM
Ooh, here's a thought. Trond relies pretty heavily on blackmail, right? And the one thing we know about why Mikkel joined is that he knew Trond. Maybe Trond has something on him? Maybe he blackmailed him into joining the expedition.
That has occurred to me as well. (Then, of course, the speculation turns toward just what Trond has on him to convince him to go on such a dangerous mission...)
Post by: IKEA on June 25, 2016, 10:42:39 PM
Ooh, here's a thought. Trond relies pretty heavily on blackmail, right? And the one thing we know about why Mikkel joined is that he knew Trond. Maybe Trond has something on him? Maybe he blackmailed him into joining the expedition.That's a pretty interesting idea. Trond could threaten Mikkel with exposure of whatever secret position he holds, which would presumably make him lose that job. Unless, of course, our Dane lends his Rash expertise to a little expedition...
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on June 25, 2016, 10:53:55 PM
Ooh, here's a thought. Trond relies pretty heavily on blackmail, right?Actually, I got the impression that Trond is that guy who Gets Things Done in the most efficient way possible: thus, blackmail is only one of the tools he uses. He got Sigrun via telling her parents the truth about the mission. About Admiral Olsen, he said, "That man won't break form willingly." The implication there is that Trond was prepared to use a carrot if it would have worked, but he knew it wouldn't. So, he went to blackmail, because it would, and in a timely manner.
Ooh, here's a thought. Trond relies pretty heavily on blackmail, right? And the one thing we know about why Mikkel joined is that he knew Trond. Maybe Trond has something on him? Maybe he blackmailed him into joining the expedition.
That has occurred to me as well. (Then, of course, the speculation turns toward just what Trond has on him to convince him to go on such a dangerous mission...)
That's a pretty interesting idea. Trond could threaten Mikkel with exposure of whatever secret position he holds, which would presumably make him lose that job. Unless, of course, our Dane lends his Rash expertise to a little expedition...It's possible. Or Mikkel could be one of those people who "hates their co-workers with a burning passion". We don't know yet.
Post by: Hrollo on June 25, 2016, 10:56:33 PM
And on another topic, I was also surprised that Sigrun actually knew about different kinds of fruit, and it's adorable how proud of herself she is for that. (Darn it, Sigrun, what did I just say about being so cute?) Explains how she's managed to avoid scurvy at least. (Seriously can you picture how bad the scurvy would have to get before Sigrun would eat something she doesn't want to eat?)
Well, there are other sources of vitamin C besides vegetables; notably, oysters and many manners of offals, which sounds more like something Sigrun would sigrun.
Post by: Kelpie on June 25, 2016, 11:01:39 PM
Quote from: GenericNerd
I sort of want Mikkel to have a secret ominous past to reveal his knowledge.Same. I'd love it if he were some kind of shady conspirator, but I'd also love me some knowledgeable farmer characters.
And I also sort of just want him to have read a lot as a kid on the farm.
Quote from: Rollo
Well, there are other sources of vitamin C besides vegetables; notably, oysters and many manners of offals, which sounds more like something Sigrun would sigrun.Well if we are assuming that Lalli did absolutely no cleaning on that squirrel, then there's your offal. See? He just doesn't want anyone to get scurvy.
Post by: Juniper on June 25, 2016, 11:19:07 PM
A lot of people have been very suspicious of Mikkel for a very long time, and I could myself among them. Here, here's a paraphrased and abbreviated version of the list I put up on the Tropes Wiki:
Hmmmm ahhhhh I just realized Taru is the only character between both the main cast and the supporting crew who doesn't have her own page on the Tropes Wiki.
I suppose I could make one, like I'm not well versed in different tropes at all but I'm she's got to fit at least a few tropes out there ?
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 26, 2016, 12:26:03 AM
I suppose I could make one, like I'm not well versed in different tropes at all but I'm she's got to fit at least a few tropes out there ?
You should! Taru is great. I like her pragmatic approach.
Post by: Asterales on June 26, 2016, 12:39:52 AM
I don't know why I'm obsessing about Reynir's sheep-and-talking-candle-in-church-dream, but I'm starting to hope that it has something to do with Mikkel. Everyoneelse is covered on the religious front and we have had so many instances of him being dismissive/critical of and amused by magic and religion, that I can't help thinking this is a set up for something. I'm sure he is supposed to revise his attitude at some point. This would be a perfect opportunity, especially since the others could so easily turn it around on him. After all, that "Old World God" It's a load of humbug, right?
An interesting thought! But on my end I'm still not clear on whether the "written Mandarin" thing was intentionally Mikkel getting it slightly wrong, or whether Minna intended him to be suspiciously spot-on.I don't think it was meant to be an intentional mistake. In fact, I'm not even sure I buy into it being a mistake. The English word 'Chinese' makes it difficult to tell whether you are talking about 漢語 (hanyu - the Sitting language family), 普通話 (putonghua - standard Mandarin, which is spoken and read the same anywhere, because that's the purpose of having a standard language) or 中文 (zhongwen - the written language that can be read as either Mandarin or Hanyu 'dialects', although meaning might be off in that case) or 白話 (baihua - written vernacular Chinese). The Chinese government likes to pretend that everything that isn't standard Mandarin is just a dialect, when really, it is a whole different language. Often they aren't mutually intelligible and the grammar might differ as well. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be the need for differentiation of the last two.
Yes, you can read Zhongwen in your dialect, just as you can read a text written in English in a British, American or Australian accent. Or a Canadian and Californian. But there are still normed languages that everybody is supposed to conform to like Standard American English or Oxford English, which go along with the standard written language hand in hand.
Our textbook had the same passage written in Mandarin and Cantonese once, and guess what? The characters were completely different. Because if the text is written the way people actually speak, the pronunciation is different and in Chinese, that means the character is, too. Also speaking conventions and terms differ. Our teachers added many, many anecdotes in the same vain to the topic.
The whole field is complicated and muddled and riddled with political controversy, because, believe me, the government of the People's Republic of China (or the government of the Republic of China, for that matter), aren't nearly as politically correct as we'd like to belive.
But enough of that.
Post by: Juniper on June 26, 2016, 01:32:33 AM
You should! Taru is great. I like her pragmatic approach.Taru sure is great, and really did a lot of the work if not most of it of making the mission happen in the first place.
Also, I don't know if anyone else has been having this issue but with the comments being closed I've been forgetting to vote for SSSS on TWC every day like usual . . going to check the comments and see what's up on there is the only reason I check on the weekends but without comments I haven't had a reason to go to the page as much as I normally do.
Post by: Róisín on June 26, 2016, 02:38:59 AM
And secret agent Mikkel - yes!
Post by: JoB on June 26, 2016, 08:24:01 AM
I can't help but notice there are some interesting paintings on page 550, the smaller ones below the one of the mountains.I suspect that recognizing the actual picture might be impeded by some sort of grime that has collected on the glass (or picture itself, if no glass was used). The big one's so far above eye level that I wouldn't be surprised if it were tilted to face downward a bit, hampering the collection of dust on it.
One of them looks like a baby's footprint, the other two look like, ah, jelly fish or octopus maybe ?
Of course, the interesting question is what a baby's footprint - a family heirloom with little to no material value - would be doing in a shop ...
I forgot to say in my last post, but, I also thought that monochrome panel stuck out when I last went through the archives. I doubt it's going to be anything super edgy, but I definitely get the impression that something shady went on that he prefers not to share.Maybe "milking cows and washing pigs" is the Danish intelligence agencies' codespeak for the intel-gathering and misleading of foreigners that he did just then and there. :P
Actually, I got the impression that Trond is that guy who Gets Things Done in the most efficient way possible: thus, blackmail is only one of the tools he uses. He got Sigrun via telling her parents the truth about the mission.There has been speculation that the good ex-general "anyone will do, really (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=200)" Trond might have preferred a less proactive and qualified Norwegian than Sigrun ...
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on June 26, 2016, 08:33:53 AM
Of course, the interesting question is what a baby's footprint - a family heirloom with little to no material value - would be doing in a shop ...The same thing a "First Dollar/Krona/Euro" would?
here has been speculation that the good ex-general "anyone will do, really (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=200)" Trond might have preferred a less proactive and qualified Norwegian than Sigrun ...Which in no way vitiates my point that he simply told the truth with no blackmail involved.
Post by: Juniper on June 26, 2016, 05:21:39 PM
Post by: Jethan on June 26, 2016, 05:24:05 PM
So uh, Reynir's going to turn out to be a Christian mage, yay or nay ?
I think that would be really nifty! And though it would stretch my suspension of disbelief a bit if nordic Gods and God ended up arguing over who gets Reynir as a mage, I think it would be kind of amusing. xD
Post by: Kelpie on June 26, 2016, 07:43:24 PM
Quote from: Juniper
So uh, Reynir's going to turn out to be a Christian mage, yay or nay ?I was wondering about that when he had the dream about being on the church, but I didn't think it'd actually happen. But now maybe yes? Wouldn't that change his magic too, given that the Norse gods choose who to bestow magic on? And what would he be able to do as a Christian mage? Exorcise unhappy spirits perhaps?
Post by: Jethan on June 26, 2016, 08:03:16 PM
...Exorcise unhappy spirits perhaps?*Looks at army of murderghosts charging after them*
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.
Post by: Ragnarok on June 26, 2016, 08:07:17 PM
I was wondering about that when he had the dream about being on the church, but I didn't think it'd actually happen. But now maybe yes? Wouldn't that change his magic too, given that the Norse choose who to bestow magic on? And what would he be able to do as a Christian mage? Exorcise unhappy spirits perhaps?
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YE!
But in all due seriousness, Reynir as a Christian mage....probably able to bless artifacts (blessed ammunition/blades anyone?), and consecrate land for defensive purposes.
Post by: Athena on June 26, 2016, 08:08:53 PM
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YE!
But in all due seriousness, Reynir as a Christian mage....probably able to bless artifacts (blessed ammunition/blades anyone?), and consecrate land for defensive purposes.
Maybe make holy water? A splash of that in a troll's face could be effective.
Post by: Ragnarok on June 26, 2016, 08:09:48 PM
Post by: Juniper on June 26, 2016, 08:17:21 PM
Maybe make holy water? A splash of that in a troll's face could be effective.
Except anyone who's seen Trollhunter knows that trolls can smell the blood of a Christian man . .
Post by: John Candlebury on June 26, 2016, 08:21:17 PM
I was wondering about that when he had the dream about being on the church, but I didn't think it'd actually happen. But now maybe yes? Wouldn't that change his magic too, given that the Norse gods choose who to bestow magic on? And what would he be able to do as a Christian mage? Exorcise unhappy spirits perhaps?
Freeze the sun in the sky, perhaps. Set people on fire, maybe. Turn water into wine, hopefully.
Post by: Athena on June 26, 2016, 08:26:44 PM
Freeze the sun in the sky, perhaps. Set people on fire, maybe. Turn water into wine, hopefully.
Get everyone accidentally drunk by turning their water supply into wine, probably.
Post by: Kelpie on June 26, 2016, 08:34:37 PM
Quote from: Luth Nightbreeze
Get everyone accidentally drunk by turning their water supply into wine, probably.He was only trying to help!!
Post by: Basse on June 26, 2016, 08:37:19 PM
Except anyone who's seen Trollhunter knows that trolls can smell the blood of a Christian man . .
(http://i.imgur.com/idn04Tc.png)
Post by: Ragnarok on June 26, 2016, 08:48:11 PM
Except anyone who's seen Trollhunter knows that trolls can smell the blood of a Christian man . .
Well, they were going to use him as troll bait....
Freeze the sun in the sky, perhaps. Set people on fire, maybe. Turn water into wine, hopefully.
Multiplying the loaves and fishes might come in handy here, considering they're still short of food.
Get everyone accidentally drunk by turning their water supply into wine, probably.
Probably.
Post by: JoB on June 26, 2016, 09:12:33 PM
So uh, Reynir's going to turn out to be a Christian mage, yay or nay ?Well, for certain values of "Christian", if their grasp of Chinese culture is any indication.
Heh. Let me bet five Internet points on Reynir conflating the cultures present in this shop and calling himself a "Kung Fu mage" at some point. :P
Post by: Lazy8 on June 26, 2016, 10:01:56 PM
Well, for certain values of "Christian", if their grasp of Chinese culture is any indication.
Heh. Let me bet five Internet points on Reynir conflating the cultures present in this shop and calling himself a "Kung Fu mage" at some point. :P
On a lighter note... I want to see this!
Post by: Róisín on June 26, 2016, 10:14:42 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 26, 2016, 10:24:26 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what is SJW?
It's an abbreviation for "Social Justice Warrior".
Post by: Eris on June 26, 2016, 10:39:21 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what is SJW?What Lazy8 said. And a "Social Justice Warrior" is a pejorative term for an individual promoting socially progressive views; including feminism, civil rights, multiculturalism, political correctness, and identity politics. So says Wikipedia.
edit: Also, I second what Lazy8 said about feeling unhappy about what's going on in the comment section, but I'm rather afraid to say anything for fear that we're going to get the whole comment section shut down again. So, I'm not saying anything, which makes me feel kind of bad, too, but . . . -sigh-
Post by: Róisín on June 26, 2016, 11:04:10 PM
Eris*sympathetic hugs*
Post by: Tr on June 26, 2016, 11:18:39 PM
Get everyone accidentally drunk by turning their water supply into wine, probably.I pity him having to deal with Extremely Hungover Sigrun in the morning.
It's also possible that Drunk Mikkel would reveal that he is really... a spy!!! *mission impossible theme song starts playing*
Lazy8: *sighs* I had hoped they wouldn't do that. Guess I was too optimistic.
Post by: Eris on June 26, 2016, 11:18:56 PM
Eris*sympathetic hugs**hugs back*
And the comment section is off! I hope it doesn't get shut down again, or if it does, it at least only gets CLOSED, not completely obliterated like last time.
Post by: Asterales on June 26, 2016, 11:31:55 PM
I was wondering about that when he had the dream about being on the church, but I didn't think it'd actually happen. But now maybe yes? Wouldn't that change his magic too, given that the Norse gods choose who to bestow magic on? And what would he be able to do as a Christian mage? Exorcise unhappy spirits perhaps?I was wondering, too!
Whatever it turns out to be, I'm sure it will be interesting ;D
Reynir at least, would probably be happy he doesn't have to resort to blow shed. Though, what will be his reaction to people having consumed Christ's "flesh and blood"?
Post by: Lazy8 on June 26, 2016, 11:38:52 PM
And the comment section is off! I hope it doesn't get shut down again, or if it does, it at least only gets CLOSED, not completely obliterated like last time.
It's still working for me, so I hope it's just something on your end.
I pity him having to deal with Extremely Hungover Sigrun in the morning.
The way the fic trends seem to be going: you ain't a Sigrun writer till you've done at least one drunk!Sigrun story. ;D
(I don't want to know what she'd be like hungover. Gritting her teeth through the whole day while everyone else walks on eggshells around her?)
edit: Also, I second what Lazy8 said about feeling unhappy about what's going on in the comment section, but I'm rather afraid to say anything for fear that we're going to get the whole comment section shut down again. So, I'm not saying anything, which makes me feel kind of bad, too, but . . . -sigh-
Well, I've already had to block one person who clearly wasn't interested in civilized dialogue and was ranting on about Minna caving to "maniacs". This wasn't some random troll I'd never seen before either; this was a regular. Seems like we're finally starting to see the truly ugly side of this fandom.
Post by: Juniper on June 26, 2016, 11:44:23 PM
Well, I've already had to block one person who clearly wasn't interested in civilized dialogue and was ranting on about Minna caving to "maniacs". This wasn't some random troll I'd never seen before either; this was a regular. Seems like we're finally starting to see the truly ugly side of this fandom.
Well, thankfully in only a few outspoken individuals, not everyone.
Post by: Tr on June 26, 2016, 11:56:09 PM
It's still working for me, so I hope it's just something on your end.Blech, yeah, I saw that. And the comments are still working for me, too.
The way the fic trends seem to be going: you ain't a Sigrun writer till you've done at least one drunk!Sigrun story. ;D
(I don't want to know what she'd be like hungover. Gritting her teeth through the whole day while everyone else walks on eggshells around her?)
Well, I've already had to block one person who clearly wasn't interested in civilized dialogue and was ranting on about Minna caving to "maniacs". This wasn't some random troll I'd never seen before either; this was a regular. Seems like we're finally starting to see the truly ugly side of this fandom.
Well, thankfully in only a few outspoken individuals, not everyone.Indeed! I've also noticed that much of the fandom are nice, sensible people, who disagree with these few individuals!
And noooo, I'm not a true Sigrun writer yet! ;D
I imagine drunk Sigrun would terrify everyone except Mikkel, who would stick around to hand her a glass of water while the rest of the team hid in terror.
Post by: Eris on June 26, 2016, 11:57:14 PM
It's still working for me, so I hope it's just something on your end.Oh, no no, it's still working for me; I'm just nervous that it's going to get shut down. I meant "off" as in "lost its mind."
Well, I've already had to block one person who clearly wasn't interested in civilized dialogue and was ranting on about Minna caving to "maniacs". This wasn't some random troll I'd never seen before either; this was a regular. Seems like we're finally starting to see the truly ugly side of this fandom.It really makes me sad that things progressed this far. :'( Our community is really very precious to me, and I want us as a community to be better than calling each other names and such behavior. But I suppose that a certain amount of this is going to happen in any community, whether I like it or not.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 27, 2016, 12:04:07 AM
And noooo, I'm not a true Sigrun writer yet! ;D
I imagine drunk Sigrun would terrify everyone except Mikkel, who would stick around to hand her a glass of water while the rest of the team hid in terror.
Well, check out some of OwlsG0's stuff if you haven't already; she loooooooooves writing both drunk!Sigrun and Sigrun/Mikkel BrOTP.
Post by: Tr on June 27, 2016, 12:20:39 AM
Well, check out some of OwlsG0's stuff if you haven't already; she loooooooooves writing both drunk!Sigrun and Sigrun/Mikkel BrOTP.Hahah, OwlsG0 has greatly influenced my idea of drunk!Sigrun.
Post by: Róisín on June 27, 2016, 02:02:25 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 27, 2016, 03:00:20 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Sigrun is one of us fortunate folk who don't get hangovers.
I was going to suggest exactly that. Everyoneis lying around groaning, hiding their eyes from the light, and one unfortunate soul is throwing up into a bucket. Sigrun leaps out of bed shouting "Stop lazing around! We've got trolls to hunt!" and starts cheerfully kicking people to 'encourage' them.
I was wondering about that when he had the dream about being on the church, but I didn't think it'd actually happen. But now maybe yes? Wouldn't that change his magic too, given that the Norse gods choose who to bestow magic on? And what would he be able to do as a Christian mage? Exorcise unhappy spirits perhaps?
Parting the Oresund so they can drive the Cat Tank back to Sweden would be rather useful :)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 03:13:14 AM
Well, I've already had to block one person who clearly wasn't interested in civilized dialogue and was ranting on about Minna caving to "maniacs".
And all of the replies to that person have since been removed, except the one agreeing with them. That's...frustrating. I could maybe understand nuking all threads about the issue entirely, but why leave in all of the posts saying nothing was wrong and it was all just the evil SJWs, and remove the replies that say what actually happened?
Post by: Juniper on June 27, 2016, 03:28:47 AM
And all of the replies to that person have since been removed, except the one agreeing with them. That's...frustrating. I could maybe understand nuking all threads about the issue entirely, but why leave in all of the posts saying nothing was wrong and it was all just the evil SJWs, and remove the replies that say what actually happened?WOW Okay I actually feel kind of hurt by that. Ugh, I love this story so much and it's been such a solace to me in an otherwise pretty dark and rocky part of my life, I'm not happy at all that my opinion on the author and part of the community is starting to really sour.
Maybe I should just stay away from disqus and stick to the forum. I feel like people are more well behaved and rational on the forum than disqus, FFS someone is accusing someone else of trying to start a flame war for posting about coconut oil. I was so pleased when I thought I found an exception to the internet rule of "don't look at the comment section" because things seemed so fun and welcoming at first but I don't know if it's getting more toxic on disqus or if I'm just becoming more aware of it or what.
Post by: Jethan on June 27, 2016, 04:21:18 AM
Maybe I should just stay away from disqus and stick to the forum. I feel like people are more well behaved and rational on the forum than disqus, FFS someone is accusing someone else of trying to start a flame war for posting about coconut oil. I was so pleased when I thought I found an exception to the internet rule of "don't look at the comment section" because things seemed so fun and welcoming at first but I don't know if it's getting more toxic on disqus or if I'm just becoming more aware of it or what.
I think actual trolls have joined the comment section since this whole kerfuffle, so that's pretty sad. And the coconut oil causing a flame war is just goofy (it can spark in a microwave though...*cough*). Actually, coconut oil, start that flame war, cleanse the comments of trolls! Unfortunately, I was trying to respond to someone who had replied on one of the threads that got deleted. So I couldn't post it after I might have taken way too long trying to compose it. >.<
Hopefully the story will get back on track, and the trolls will get bored of all the fun friendship stuff and leave!
Post by: Róisín on June 27, 2016, 05:06:23 AM
Post by: Asterales on June 27, 2016, 05:14:05 AM
WOW Okay I actually feel kind of hurt by that. Ugh, I love this story so much and it's been such a solace to me in an otherwise pretty dark and rocky part of my life, I'm not happy at all that my opinion on the author and part of the community is starting to really sour.Don't underestimate that the fandom keeps growing, too. The more readers there are, the more unreasonable ones there will be. Unfortunately, I would say, the unreasonable ones are usually the louder ones as well :(
Maybe I should just stay away from disqus and stick to the forum. I feel like people are more well behaved and rational on the forum than disqus, FFS someone is accusing someone else of trying to start a flame war for posting about coconut oil. I was so pleased when I thought I found an exception to the internet rule of "don't look at the comment section" because things seemed so fun and welcoming at first but I don't know if it's getting more toxic on disqus or if I'm just becoming more aware of it or what.
Some comics an TWC make my hair stand on end (content wise), and those aren't all that unpopular. Readership from there and other places is bound to wander into our comment section. It's just a matter of time.
General conduct is largely influenced by the majority. As long as everyone is oh-ing and ah-ing over cute kittens or speculating about the next nasty beast, it's easy to be of one mind and all seem like big heart-shaped fluffballs that have no other goal besides virtual cuddling. But as soon as real life troubles like politics of social issues enter the picture, it is only natural that this image will fall apart.
Doest mean the comment section won't calm down again. And you know how people are, if they have stress in real life, they are more likely to stop thinking, overreact or "vent". They might even regret it, after a while. No one is a bad person because of one comment. SJW take it too far in one direction, the idiots spewing nonsense about Minna "bowing down" definitely take it too far in the other direction.
I haven't looked at the comment section since this morning. Now I'm really wondering if I should. I think, I'll wait until everyone has called down a bit.
One question: what's FFS? I'm assuming it's not shorthand for "fanfictions", in this case? :?
I also second Róisín! With all my heart! Please don't leave!
Post by: Róisín on June 27, 2016, 05:50:18 AM
For one thing, someone who has been genuinely offended is likely to be able to get their point across far more effectively if they explain the detail of what offends them, clearly and calmly. I'm sure I am not the only one who responds to abusive language and unexplained demands by digging in and refusing to budge. Back in the days of monthly SF magazines, I remember one critic who would write flaming letters to me and to the editor every time I, a female writer, dared to have a story published in which the protagonist was male (probably about a quarter of my stories or poems). I eventually figured out that she thought I was 'betraying my gender' by writing male characters. Now I found that particular offence-taking little short of crazy, while some of the offence-taking we've just had here came from much more reasonable causes, but even a reasonable offence-taking comes across as unreasonable if it is expressed unreasonably. If the writer or artist whose work causes the complaint can understand exactly how the offence has been given, and what the person complaining wants changed, and why, the complainant is far more likely to get what they want.
Post by: mapmad on June 27, 2016, 05:58:14 AM
One question: what's FFS? I'm assuming it's not shorthand for "fanfictions", in this case? :?
Oh, Four Five, Six!
Post by: Superdark33 on June 27, 2016, 06:11:40 AM
The people who are offended (rightfuly so) are very much conditioned to reply with the same venom and fire that the awful racists and bigots subject them to.
There are people on the other hand who love the comic just too much, and a single criticism against it sends them into bloodlust, how DARE anyone criticize the fair comic!
Then discussion is over, nothing matters anymore, its one frightned animal against another.
Luckily the rest who belong to these two axises (axii?) Are more reasonable and manage to communicate better, resulting in a good ending. But the conflict itself is just... so ugly... that it ruins the entire fandom expirience for them.
Comment sections in general are a mire of unorginized sentences, its only a matter of time before the idiots arrive. Took them a while tho.
Hehehe, its exactly under that reason that i opened a thread very much like this one a long time ago....
Post by: Hrollo on June 27, 2016, 06:21:27 AM
I can't defend that as a clever attitude of course, but it's such a common trait of human psychology that worms its way in so many issues, whether they're effectively critially divisive society issues (say, immigration) or just really trivial things (say, football teams), that it's hard to call it dumb — many people who don't fall for that on most issues will suddenly lose all sense of moderation and fairness when you hit their one pet issue, and you have to wonder if anyone is trully immune or if it's really just a matter or pushing someone's buttons just the right/wrong way.
I admit the first day this one particular thing started to happen, I didn't react in the most detached and neutral way, because it hit some of my buttons (harassment and censorship) that made me (almost) blind to the issue of the words' misuse and offensiveness. It's just hard not to take a side and throw all nuance away when you feel "attacked", even indirectly.
Post by: Róisín on June 27, 2016, 06:53:59 AM
Post by: Asterales on June 27, 2016, 07:49:15 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 27, 2016, 08:17:00 AM
And all of the replies to that person have since been removed, except the one agreeing with them. That's...frustrating. I could maybe understand nuking all threads about the issue entirely, but why leave in all of the posts saying nothing was wrong and it was all just the evil SJWs, and remove the replies that say what actually happened?
I noticed this too, and I'm more than a little disturbed. A lot of my comments are gone - this isn't a matter of disqus dropping stuff, I looked in my feed and they're gone, and guess what, the guy I blocked last night is now unblocked again. This really comes across as silencing critics and Minna surrounding herself with only people who will unconditionally fawn over her, and as much as I've enjoyed the story so far I'm not sure if I can keep reading something if I keep getting a stomachache every time I look at it.
Asterales, I think you are right about what is happening. We have had a few bouts of trollishness before, and have survived them. Some of the trolls even calmed down a bit, participated and became valued members of the fandom. Including, sadly, one of those who is leaving because of this incident. But I believe things will improve if we continue to behave decently ourselves, and if we can talk to one another without going to extremes.
For one thing, someone who has been genuinely offended is likely to be able to get their point across far more effectively if they explain the detail of what offends them, clearly and calmly. I'm sure I am not the only one who responds to abusive language and unexplained demands by digging in and refusing to budge. Back in the days of monthly SF magazines, I remember one critic who would write flaming letters to me and to the editor every time I, a female writer, dared to have a story published in which the protagonist was male (probably about a quarter of my stories or poems). I eventually figured out that she thought I was 'betraying my gender' by writing male characters. Now I found that particular offence-taking little short of crazy, while some of the offence-taking we've just had here came from much more reasonable causes, but even a reasonable offence-taking comes across as unreasonable if it is expressed unreasonably. If the writer or artist whose work causes the complaint can understand exactly how the offence has been given, and what the person complaining wants changed, and why, the complainant is far more likely to get what they want.
I also can't help but notice that you've given upvotes to a lot of the inflammatory comments saying that nothing was wrong with the original page and that no one had any right to be offended at all. I've noticed this for some time, and it's been bugging me for some time. Can I ask why?
Post by: Róisín on June 27, 2016, 08:32:56 AM
Post by: Ragnarok on June 27, 2016, 08:34:47 AM
I noticed this too, and I'm more than a little disturbed. A lot of my comments are gone - this isn't a matter of disqus dropping stuff, I looked in my feed and they're gone, and guess what, the guy I blocked last night is now unblocked again. This really comes across as silencing critics and Minna surrounding herself with only people who will unconditionally fawn over her, and as much as I've enjoyed the story so far I'm not sure if I can keep reading something if I keep getting a stomachache every time I look at it.
Ergh.....that's not good.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 27, 2016, 08:41:14 AM
Ergh.....that's not good.
The silencing critics, the unblocking or the stomachache?
Post by: Ragnarok on June 27, 2016, 08:43:19 AM
Post by: Asterales on June 27, 2016, 08:52:37 AM
I noticed this too, and I'm more than a little disturbed. A lot of my comments are gone - this isn't a matter of disqus dropping stuff, I looked in my feed and they're gone, and guess what, the guy I blocked last night is now unblocked again. This really comes across as silencing critics and Minna surrounding herself with only people who will unconditionally fawn over her, and as much as I've enjoyed the story so far I'm not sure if I can keep reading something if I keep getting a stomachache every time I look at it.That is disturbing. I'm getting rather afraid of looking. That is giving me stomachaches! D:
Can we be sure that it's Minna doing this? *tries to muster the resolve to take a look*
Because those are the ones whose comments I find ambiguous. I want them to say what they are going to say, straight out. So I *know* what is really being said, clearly expressed without euphemism. Usually their next comment makes their meaning fully clear. You will notice that I do not do so with the ones who make their meaning clear.I guess that's one way of doing things. I'd be far too worried of firing on inflammatory behaviour. But I can see where you are coming from, I guess?
Post by: Anna on June 27, 2016, 09:08:40 AM
Post by: Hrollo on June 27, 2016, 09:11:51 AM
At this point I think it would probably be more useful to talk things out with her in private messages, politely, than to try to "win" arguments in comment boxes.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 27, 2016, 09:18:52 AM
i feel as though we need to really talk to Minna about this.
I've resolved to try posting something to the comments section (I don't have a Twitter account), either tomorrow or at the end of the day today depending on whether or not the new page comes out before or after I leave work - I want it to be there as soon as the page is released so I can be sure she'll see it. The response I get is likely to determine whether or not I remain in this fandom.
I think Minna just wants the issue to die down now that she changed the offending thing to a version that satisfied most people; she's trying to cull off what she interprets (rightly or wrongly) as hostile comments or attempts to stir the flam up, but she probably lacks experience in dealing with this kind of situation (not to mention cultural differences as well) and like most people involved probably misses some of the nuances of the situation.
At this point I think it would probably be more useful to talk things out with her in private messages, politely, than to try to "win" arguments in comment boxes.
Personally, the thing that has me in knots is that she's not just indiscriminately deleting anything that pertains to the kerfluffle at all. That, I would have found understandable - poorly handled, but understandable. Instead, it looks like she's selectively deleting the comments that are critical of her, while letting the inflammatory ones that people find hurtful stand. (And it's an extra point of irony that a lot of said comments are rallying around the cry of "free speech" while anyone who disagrees with them is being silenced.)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 09:26:59 AM
This really comes across as silencing critics and Minna surrounding herself with only people who will unconditionally fawn over her
Yes, it gives me the same vibe. I don't want to read too much into it, but it makes me wonder, like...if she's leaving up these comments about how it was a shame she changed the slur, does that mean she's saying she wishes she hadn't changed it? She removed a bunch of my comments that said nothing negative about her at all, just that the slur was an accidental but genuine problem and the edit was a flat-out improvement. Does that mean she disagrees with me on that?
I think Minna just wants the issue to die down now that she changed the offending thing to a version that satisfied most people; she's trying to cull off what she interprets (rightly or wrongly) as hostile comments or attempts to stir the flam up
Maybe, but she left up the original post that provoked the argument and the one direct reply that agreed with it. Even though she also removed a lot of "maniac guy's" replies to the replies, that just means now there's no sign that there was ever disagreement with his position at all. How am I supposed to interpret that?
I'm not gonna let this ruin my enjoyment of SSSS, though. Even if my view of the author is tarnished when this all shakes out, I love the story. And the community will be great again when this controversy is over. I can still read a story even if I'm disillusioned with the author over one thing. But I hope she doesn't make a habit of curating the comments section to this degree. It's frustrating to feel like I've been muzzled. And if would be best of all if she somehow came around on this.
Post by: Juniper on June 27, 2016, 09:27:20 AM
One question: what's FFS? I'm assuming it's not shorthand for "fanfictions", in this case? :?It stands for, 'for frick's sake' ;)
I also second Róisín! With all my heart! Please don't leave!
I'm more than disturbed that she kept up a comment calling those who oppose her 'maniacs' but then removed my response to it that was just a silly old meme of Neil Degrass Tyson, specifically it even says on my disqus profile that my comments were removed due to being spam ? Even my replies to to things saying "hey please don't start fights I don't want the comment section removed" were removed ? But no, she kept the original comments that were insulting people or putting people down for opposing her that I was responding to, the inflammatory comments that were clearly looking to put people down and start fights.
And I agree with with Superdark33, I've noticed even before this whole debacle happened that there's quite a few people who lurk in the Disqus comments who zealously over defend the comic. To be fair every fandom has those individuals with the attitude of "no this story is perfect how dare you criticize" and this is no exception.
Even before this debacle I feel like I've noticed people being a lot more bickery and snide in Disqus than the forum. My only solution I can propose to my current issues with Disqus is that only Lars should be allowed to comment from now on, nobody else not even Minna is allowed to comment only Lars forever. And Corncobman. Just those two. Or we can take Jethan's idea and cleanse the comment section with burning coconut oil. *throws flaming coconut oil at my computer screen*
I don't know, I love talking to everyone I regularly interact with on the forum, you're all really wonderful people and have said some beautifully supportive things to me. I love the story even if the author is extremely disappointing to me right now, I love reading and writing fanfiction for it, I love that this story has attracted people into its fandom with similar strong interests of mine like foreign language and nature and what not. I don't think I could give that up, not now at least. I think for now I'm just going to retire from disqus and reading the comments like I do with everywhere else on the internet.
But like, this is such a let down. I was actually starting to really admire Minna, her probably being the closest thing I had to a 'celebrity idol' or anything, like I was all "wow she's such a good artist and storyteller and seems like a really interesting person !" so this is just really disappointing and bothersome to see her acting like that.
Post by: Juniper on June 27, 2016, 09:29:54 AM
i feel as though we need to really talk to Minna about this.
I was thinking the same thing, I'd really like to, but I'm afraid at this point if she is having a break down as others have pointed out is very likely it might make things worse. If she's shutting down it might just be as effective as talking at a brick wall.
Post by: Hrollo on June 27, 2016, 09:48:15 AM
I want to believe everything will go back to normal once everyone (including Minna) has had the opportunity to calm down a bit and reflect on the situation from an unstressful position, but I guess that would be too idealistic.
edit: I think people are also a bit too quick to dismiss the emotional stress Minna must be under right now; even if she has received much more supportive messages, you'd think agressive, hostile (possibly death threats, I don't know) comments received on social media and in private messages would leave a trace for a while…
Post by: Asterales on June 27, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
I have had a look and actually feel a little better now - fear of the unknown seems to be the worst one, after all.
It's all terribly nerve-wracking, though. I think I'll leave the comment section alone for a while.
Maybe the forum, too. I'm still trying to get some things sorted out with myself and reading about the whole situation really bothers me. Maybe I'll just stay away from this thread until the end of the week, instead of crawling back into the figurative hole I had been hiding in for the last few weeks.
If you do decide to contact Minna, I very much hope you can reach her. As in connect to her. I hope, she understands, and knows she has done the right thing by changing the page. And that she learns to better deal with this whole situation. (Using free speech as an excuse is ridiculous.)
In the case that I should vanish completely for a while, just know that I support you <3
Post by: Lazy8 on June 27, 2016, 10:19:29 AM
Juniper, thank you for the clarification! :P
I have had a look and actually feel a little better now - fear of the unknown seems to be the worst one, after all.
It's all terribly nerve-wracking, though. I think I'll leave the comment section alone for a while.
Maybe the forum, too. I'm still trying to get some things sorted out with myself and reading about the whole situation really bothers me. Maybe I'll just stay away from this thread until the end of the week, instead of crawling back into the figurative hole I had been hiding in for the last few weeks.
If you do decide to contact Minna, I very much hope you can reach her. As in connect to her. I hope, she understands, and knows she has done the right thing by changing the page. And that she learns to better deal with this whole situation. (Using free speech as an excuse is ridiculous.)
In the case that I should vanish completely for a while, just know that I support you <3
Thanks. And I haven't made any final decision yet. If someone else has the means and the desire to contact her more privately, I'd be willing to wait for the outcome of that so she doesn't feel ganged up on. But I feel as if I've already been bending over backwards to give Minna the benefit of the doubt, and it's quickly getting to the point where it's just too much.
Post by: Asterales on June 27, 2016, 10:32:11 AM
I truly hope you can find somebody who can send her a private message.
*has a terrible epiphany*
Just please don't leave the fandom while I'm not looking! D: At least PM me! I'll cry of you do, but finding you gone when I rerun would be much more horrifying :'(
You haven't even finished your story! *rushes off to give you mail address via PM*
Don't you dare leave me hanging with only half a story! *swings fist in Lazy's direction*
Post by: Lazy8 on June 27, 2016, 10:39:40 AM
*hugs Lazy*
I truly hope you can find somebody who can send her a private message.
*has a terrible epiphany*
Just please don't leave the fandom while I'm not looking! D: At least PM me! I'll cry of you do, but finding you gone when I rerun would be much more horrifying :'(
You haven't even finished your story! *rushes off to give you mail address via PM*
Don't you dare leave me hanging with only half a story! *swings fist in Lazy's direction*
Don't worry; even if I do leave I'll be sure to give full notice in the Leave of Absence thread. And like I said, nothing is a certainty yet. It's still all up in the air.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 10:46:32 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on June 27, 2016, 10:58:37 AM
I really hope y'all don't leave. :( I'm almost definitely going to stay for now, and I don't relish the thought of being totally outnumbered in the comments by people who jump at every opportunity to crap on "SJWs." But I can't ask anyone to keep coming back to something that upsets them either.
Honestly those are going to show up anywhere. It's a sad fact of life. My biggest problem is that Minna seems, by her inaction, to be endorsing their behavior for no better reason than that they're on "her" side, this while the comments of those who civilly disagree mysteriously "disappear".
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 11:15:04 AM
Post by: kjeks on June 27, 2016, 11:54:51 AM
I guess Minna has to learn how to deal with a fandom belonging to different sets of growing up and to different cultures. Take in mind that she is a young person still. She might be naive but how do you change that? Right through hurtfull debates most likely. She will make bad decisions and right decisions. She might evolve an eye or not. As none of us neither her or the comic is perfect. Same is the fandom.
Given that she is working 8-10 hrs of the day on the comic, sleeping about 6 she has 10 to 8 hrs a day left for thinking about the next page/story line, daily routines, friends and family, appointments whatsoever. There is little time left to learn about the world so I guess the comment section will be a place of trouble (as the forum sometimes is as well) for a while, while she learns about the little things that might affect others.
Currently we are 4-5 people on the board who can talk to one another about how we moderate and are available for contact. Minna is alone and has to deal with a whole chaotic comment section. Of course she might offend some people but I guess it is nothing personal and while we see that she hits some people unfairly by just marking them as spammers, she might learn from that as well. That does not mean what is happening right now is ok. I just want to raise a different point of view.
For those who might decide to leave for a while, I wish you well and hope to see and read you back in a bit, when things have quieted down.
Edit: Some might have noticed I barely post in the SSSS only related section. That for reason that the comic for example has bored me out to the point that I only read it in chunks of ten pages each and not daily. I still love the artwork and I still love the people I am meeting here and on chat. So constructive critizism is allowed of course and I am fully aware that the person drawing this is as perfect as myself - not at all.
Post by: Róisín on June 27, 2016, 01:22:12 PM
Post by: kjeks on June 27, 2016, 01:33:35 PM
Kjeks, I think you have the right of it concerning Minna. We just have to hope she works out how to deal with these things, and is not so disgusted by the whole process as to give up writing. Glad you're still here.
There's no reason for me to leave ;). All the same above post does not mean that I want to play down that people got hurt. Just wanted to raise a different point of view.
Let's hope that we'll find out soon what dark secrets Mikkel's hiding what other religions reynir does uncover. And I'd love to see them crossing the alps at some point or the ural, though they clearly chose the wrong route in order to cross that region.
Post by: JoB on June 27, 2016, 01:53:09 PM
Parting the Oresund so they can drive the Cat Tank back to Sweden would be rather useful :)Better part it all the way down to the bedrock, though. There might be more mud at the seabottom than under the shallow Red Sea, and the cat-tank probably has more of a problem with it than people on foot.
Even better, part the waters from Fyn/Sjælland to Bornholm. Less tide currents slamming into your magic corridor.
Post by: Nanao on June 27, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
At the start when i looked at this topic and seemingly especially even Minna's inbox as well was apparently full of post written in bloodlust from sjw's, as they are called I guess, I just learned this Word. But then there are also people who Only concider Minnas feelings and don't count the facts.. It's good that Minna changed it because it would bring some negative connotations and feelings, but i see no need for apology for character design in fiction. Ignorant people exist and ignorant characters exist. It's Minna's comic afterall. On top off all chingchong has strong negative connotations in Anglo sphere only, so it's good that it was changed, at least the new outlook of the page is good.
This makes me think about early topic of how there should be people of color in secluded Scandinavia and one some kind of schoolword AU where Mora was written into diverse city. My post insults some people probably, but.. well. Sorry for bad English. This all might be already said but I think this might be also how Minna thinks.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 02:23:12 PM
Edit: Thanks!
Post by: Nanao on June 27, 2016, 02:45:58 PM
Nanao, just so you know, the shadow effect on your font makes it difficult to read. I think the pink color would be readable if it were just the font color and not a shadow.
Thank you, it annoyed me but i thought it only looks like that for me and not on the forum, I try to fix it.
Edit. Yay it worked. I thought I would for once bring my thought on this stuff when this kind of fight pops up everywhere.
Post by: kjeks on June 27, 2016, 03:17:45 PM
Edit: Welcome to the board Nanao, we've got an introductory topic over here. (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=131.0) Take a :squirrelcookie: in the meantime ;)
Post by: Nanao on June 27, 2016, 03:36:31 PM
Well then, I guess the topic in here is done, since it is the comic UPDATE Chitchat and all is said on the matter so far. Let's see what tomorrow's page has to offer.Hello! it's nice that you welcomed me even if we maybe disagreed on some parts, I almost never log into forums but I'll take a look at introduction thread.
Edit: Welcome to the board Nanao, we've got an introductory topic over here. (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=131.0) Take a :squirrelcookie: in the meantime ;)
Post by: Puls3 on June 27, 2016, 03:43:59 PM
I haven't been very active on the forum or disqus before this event, but my feelings have been tarnished ever since I've gotten into the cause of this ongoing conflict (with seemingly no happy ending in sight, but hopefully I'm wrong about that). It was one thing with Minna doing an honest mistake, but not acknowledging her mistakes by refusing to apologise and prohibiting anyone from trying to make her realise that the phrase 'Ching chong' hurt a lot of people's feelings is just downright disrespectful.
The people who are ferociously defending Minna's behaviour is close to some sort of fanaticism.
Don't take me wrong, I admire Minna Immensely as an artist and I do like the fandom. This is as mentioned earlier, the ugly part of the fandom revealing itself.
But the thing that is distressing me the most is that I've been hearing of unfair treatment taking place in different threads of the forum and the mere thought of looking into it is making me sick as I've been a part of this fandom for almost 2 years now and never even realised it myself (I feel awful for not seeing it sooner).
Maybe we should acknowledge the flaws of this forum. I must be part of the problem as I have for all this time been unaware of (or even denying) the unfair behaviour that hurt so many people's feelings way before this mess even took place.
And instead of hoping that everything will turn back to normal, we should try to do something against the bad sides of this fandom and dare to say no to unfair treatment of other fans of different backgrounds. Because if this blows over and everyone pretends like nothing happened, then this will turn into just another fandom where fans blindly praises the creator's every move even if it's something that is hurtful to others as they shamelessly crushes anyone who dare to speak their mind.
I will probably, peek into to the forum (usually spend my time in the general discussions board and the art thread) once in a while and crack a lame joke over at disqus as I enjoy the comic and admire the artwork, but I feel that things will never be the same again after this. Hopefully I'm wrong about that too as there are a lot of good hearted and wonderful people in this community that I'd like to know better before it is too late.
I'm sorry if this all sounds like a bunch of bs, but I felt that I had to let it all out in one go.
Edit: I'm so sorry kjeks, didn't realise that there were new posts.
Post by: Hrollo on June 27, 2016, 03:53:27 PM
It was one thing with Minna doing an honest mistake, but not acknowledging her mistakes by refusing to apologise and prohibiting anyone from trying to make her realise that the phrase "Ching chong" hurt a lot of people's feelings is just downright disrespectful.
But that's false. She aknowleged it was wrong, and changed it.
Quote
Maybe we should acknowledge the flaws of this forum.
Like the time we opened an NSFW board in spite of protests to make the shippers and sexy-material lovers feel more welcome, maybe?
Quote
And instead of hoping that everything will turn back to normal, we should try to do something against the bad sides of this fandom and dare to say no to unfair treatment of other fans of different backgrounds. Because if this blows over and everyone pretends like nothing happened, then this will turn into just another fandom where fans blindly praises the creator's every move even if it's something that is hurtful to others as they shamelessly crushes anyone who dare to speak their mind.
This is not what happened at all. She made a mistake, was violently called out over it, and still in spite of that took over herself to fix the mistake, to most people's satistfaction. What more do you want, a struggle session?
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 03:57:17 PM
What more do you want, a struggle session?
Well, here's all I want: "Sorry, my bad," and for my comments on the subject to stop disappearing from Disqus.
Post by: viola on June 27, 2016, 04:17:58 PM
Well then, I guess the topic in here is done, since it is the comic UPDATE Chitchat and all is said on the matter so far. Let's see what tomorrow's page has to offer.
Just mentioning this request again. I would like to ask everyone politley to move on to discussion of the current pages.
Thank you for understanding.
Post by: Puls3 on June 27, 2016, 04:20:55 PM
And even though Minna did acknowledge that what she did was wrong (got too quick on writing the opposite in my earlier comment, so that's on me) she didn't come out with an official apology and only seemingly smoothed things over with people she privately messaged with, leaving other people without a "sorry, didn't mean to be hurtful."
I should also have acknowledged the awful things that was made against her which is completely unacceptable.
But I still feel that there are more things that could be done to make everyone feel welcome in this forum.
Post by: viola on June 27, 2016, 04:23:57 PM
But I still feel that there are more things that could be done to make everyone feel welcome in this forum.
If you have some suggestions I would be happy to hear them. Please pm me or post them in the suggestion area so we can work on making things better. None of us are perfect.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 04:26:50 PM
Post by: viola on June 27, 2016, 04:31:20 PM
I'll stop talking about it here, sorry, but is there somewhere else on the forum that would be a more appropriate place to discuss this?
What sort of thread do you think it would fit best in? I can ask the mods if we can reopen the thread about races in ssss, or would you suggest a different topic?
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
Post by: Juniper on June 27, 2016, 04:40:03 PM
What sort of thread do you think it would fit best in? I can ask the mods if we can reopen the thread about races in ssss, or would you suggest a different topic?
I think the idea if the mods agree to it of re-opening the races in ssss thread might be a good idea for this debate to move to, especially considering that a lot of this debate seems to be extending off of the original one discussed in that thread.
Post by: viola on June 27, 2016, 04:42:45 PM
I'm too new to the forum to really know where it would fit best, but a thread about races does sound like it would work. Or even a topic specifically about the recent controversy. Whatever is appropriate to the forum culture, I guess? I'm happy with wherever it is as long as it's somewhere.
I think the idea if the mods agree to it of re-opening the races in ssss thread might be a good idea for this debate to move to, especially considering that a lot of this debate seems to be extending off of the original one discussed in that thread.
If you give us about 24 hours (we are all on different time zones) to discuss it, I've posed the question of reopening the thread to the moderation team. We will figure out a place where it can fit provided the discussion remains civil and mature. Knowing the people here though, I think it is possible.
Post by: BlueAmaranth on June 27, 2016, 04:49:05 PM
Post by: viola on June 27, 2016, 04:52:19 PM
Thanks!
No problem :)
In the future if anyone has suggestions please don't be afraid to bring them to us. I promise I don't actually eat people. :D
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 27, 2016, 07:50:05 PM
In the future if anyone has suggestions please don't be afraid to bring them to us. I promise I don't actually eat people. :D
That's not what your avatar suggests.... ;D
Post by: GenericNerd on June 27, 2016, 08:09:29 PM
Post by: Kelpie on June 27, 2016, 11:45:07 PM
Post by: Tr on June 27, 2016, 11:58:00 PM
My new questions is, did the glass shatter because Reynir is clumsy, or because the Nordic gods disapprove?(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/352/470/1b5.gif)
Reynir is clumsy. The gods are disapproving. *nod nods*
Post by: Takoyaki on June 28, 2016, 12:37:20 AM
If you give us about 24 hours (we are all on different time zones) to discuss it, I've posed the question of reopening the thread to the moderation team. We will figure out a place where it can fit provided the discussion remains civil and mature. Knowing the people here though, I think it is possible.
Please do! I actually registered an account just to post on the topic after I saw her comments about closing the comments section. Figured she probably does not want any personal messages about it (even positive ones), so thought this might be the place to come.
Post by: Juniper on June 28, 2016, 01:20:28 AM
Please do! I actually registered an account just to post on the topic after I saw her comments about closing the comments section. Figured she probably does not want any personal messages about it (even positive ones), so thought this might be the place to come.
Hello and welcome to the forum ! If you'd like the general discussion board has an introduction thread if you'd like to pop over and introduce yourself to everyone c:
Post by: Jethan on June 28, 2016, 01:43:03 AM
Post by: Miriam on June 28, 2016, 08:12:18 AM
Post by: Tr on June 28, 2016, 12:46:06 PM
I think Reynir accidentally breaking glass has a link to him promising Tuuri he'd repair a broken picture frame, just to realise he can't fix glass...:mikkel:: What did I tell you earlier? You can't fix glass! So don't try, you'll cut yourself! Honestly, Reynir!
:reynir:: Sorry, sorry! I just thought... now that I'm a mage... well sort of a mage, I didn't mean, you know, an actual trained mage, but... I thought I might be able to... fix it... with magic... :(
One day, Reynir. One day you will have the magic required to fix glass.
Post by: Talimee on June 28, 2016, 01:06:08 PM
:mikkel:: What did I tell you earlier? You can't fix glass! So don't try, you'll cut yourself! Honestly, Reynir!
:reynir:: Sorry, sorry! I just thought... now that I'm a mage... well sort of a mage, I didn't mean, you know, an actual trained mage, but... I thought I might be able to... fix it... with magic... :(
One day, Reynir. One day you will have the magic required to fix glass.
Wasn't it Occulus Reparo? Ah, wait, wrong fandom. ;D
Post by: Eris on June 28, 2016, 02:02:23 PM
Please do! I actually registered an account just to post on the topic after I saw her comments about closing the comments section. Figured she probably does not want any personal messages about it (even positive ones), so thought this might be the place to come.Welcome to the forum! :D I know we're glad to have you here.
Post by: Anna on June 28, 2016, 09:18:00 PM
Wasn't it Occulus Reparo? Ah, wait, wrong fandom. ;DNah, that's for eyeglasses.
Post by: mapmad on June 29, 2016, 01:56:01 AM
Post by: Yuuago on June 29, 2016, 07:36:04 AM
Post by: Tr on June 29, 2016, 10:58:56 AM
I really enjoy the quiet of the final panel on 553... I suspect we won't get many moments like that once they get into Odense. :PThat panel is beautiful, I love the colors.
Post by: kjeks on June 29, 2016, 11:40:25 AM
If someone wants to explore this topic more quietly and not linked to the current events but in general, the
Collaborative project: The Hotel Survivors (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=282.0) might be what you are looking for.
Have fun discussing the upcoming events,
- the forum team.
Post by: Juniper on June 29, 2016, 10:06:34 PM
Post by: mapmad on June 30, 2016, 02:33:52 AM
Despite Tuuri just assuming, and not asking, I think one part may in fact be home sickness. I bet he loves night scouting, but he wants back home to *his* forest, maybe not because he misses it, but because he feels it's his job to take care of it.
But he might also have a bad feeling of what is up ahead, even if it's just for the reason that it's a city.
I do hope we get to know what "It" is. I expect "It" to be grandma's mistake, but what shape it has is of course anyones guess.
Post by: Yuuago on June 30, 2016, 07:54:04 AM
So uh, theories / bets on why Lalli wants to go home ? My original hunch was the spooky parade coming for them, but then someone in the comments mentioned that it might have something to do with the "it" Onni mentioned looking for them again, which part of me hopes is the case because I want to know what "it" is and FINALLY have the details of the Hotakainen's backstory revealed.
+1 to reaaallly wanting to know what the heck it is. Might be the cause of him wanting to return, but... if it is, I suspect it'll still be a while before we get more details. :Va Arrrgh, I want to know!
Post by: BlueSkyVail on July 01, 2016, 04:21:35 PM
So uh, theories / bets on why Lalli wants to go home ? My original hunch was the spooky parade coming for them, but then someone in the comments mentioned that it might have something to do with the "it" Onni mentioned looking for them again, which part of me hopes is the case because I want to know what "it" is and FINALLY have the details of the Hotakainen's backstory revealed.
I was also thinking it had something to do with the "it". But I dunno, maybe the murderghosts and generally-forboding feelings lately could have something to do with it too. But all this wondering makes me all the more impatient to find out!
In the meantime I will focus my wondering-efforts towards the other part of your point- the details of the Hotakainen's backstory.
Post by: Juniper on July 01, 2016, 05:04:04 PM
In the meantime I will focus my wondering-efforts towards the other part of your point- the details of the Hotakainen's backstory.Right ?!? To repeat what everyone else is saying, what did grandma Hotakainen make a mistake on ?!? Is a kade going to somehow be involved in this, Minna can't just bring up a kade on the mages info page and then not have a kade in the story at all she just can't there there has to be a kade somewhere D: if there is a kade will we get to see a magic fight by the end of the story ?? I may or may not have been frothing at the mouth wanting to see any combination of our three mages fight a kade for a while now . .
Post by: JoB on July 03, 2016, 02:37:43 PM
So uh, theories / bets on why Lalli wants to go home ? My original hunch was the spooky parade coming for themNot much else to say, but as the scout, and assuming that he did notice the parade that far away, he should know best that they cannot go back the same way they came, and specifically ask to return home on a route that Tuuri et. al. need to pinpoint from the maps first.
Post by: Juniper on July 04, 2016, 12:35:44 AM
it's okay I've survived one chapter break I can survive another I CAN DO THIS
Post by: Kelpie on July 04, 2016, 12:39:14 AM
Quote from: Juniper
Sighhhh I'm afraid the chapter break might be approaching, this chapter's already about average chapter length, maybe a little on the longer side, and both today and yesterday's page commentary was "Got to have a little mage dream sequence too before this day ends" making me think this chapter's going to wrap up soon.(http://i.imgur.com/oGSmDGb.png)
it's okay I've survived one chapter break I can survive another I CAN DO THIS
Oh no I hadn't thought about this oh no oh no.
Post by: Eris on July 04, 2016, 12:51:21 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/oGSmDGb.png)Fear the chapter break!
Oh no I hadn't thought about this oh no oh no.
-shivers-
Post by: Yuuago on July 04, 2016, 12:55:56 AM
Sighhhh I'm afraid the chapter break might be approaching, this chapter's already about average chapter length, maybe a little on the longer side, and both today and yesterday's page commentary was "Got to have a little mage dream sequence too before this day ends" making me think this chapter's going to wrap up soon.
it's okay I've survived one chapter break I can survive another I CAN DO THIS
D: Oh snap.
Ah well, we can manage! We've managed before!
Post by: Eris on July 04, 2016, 01:28:09 AM
D: Oh snap.Can we really manage? I feel like we cannot. :'(
Ah well, we can manage! We've managed before!
I know we have before, but . . . !
Post by: Róisín on July 04, 2016, 02:50:27 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 04, 2016, 04:07:35 AM
Oh, who am I kidding. I'd still be checking SSSS every day even if I was stranded halfway up the Jungfrau ;D
Post by: Talimee on July 04, 2016, 07:21:22 AM
Post by: Miriam on July 04, 2016, 08:32:07 AM
(On the other hand, I might earn my first chapter break ribbon... if I manage to survive)
Post by: mapmad on July 04, 2016, 08:35:29 AM
Post by: Talimee on July 04, 2016, 09:01:55 AM
Nooooo this will be my first chapter break! I won't be able to handle it! I need help from expert chapter break survivors!
(On the other hand, I might earn my first chapter break ribbon... if I manage to survive)
Getting your first ribbon is a special occasion. =)
And not much will change, believe me. Okay, one might still check the comic-page for an update once or twice every hour and there is a nagging hollow feeling somewhere in one's guts - but apart from that everything is juuuust fiiiiine. People tend to be more creative during chapter breaks and one gets more non-SSSS-related stuff done. =)
Good, I need a CB, so I don't feel compelled to check if when wake up in the middle of the night.
Well, yeah. That is a good reason! Undisturbed nightly sleep is to be treasured. ALTHOUGH, if I didn't have that exact compelling feeling as well I wouldn't own a copy of aRTD now, since I only managed to snatch one because I woke up two hours early one day and decided to check on the comic's site. ^^;
Post by: BlueSkyVail on July 04, 2016, 12:50:10 PM
Nooooo this will be my first chapter break! I won't be able to handle it! I need help from expert chapter break survivors!
(On the other hand, I might earn my first chapter break ribbon... if I manage to survive)
This will be my first chapter break too!! I'm dreading it, I always look forward to checking for a new page. But I'm happy I jumped into the forum beforehand- I'm hoping that will make it more bearable? Right, CB survivors? please...?
Post by: Miriam on July 04, 2016, 01:15:52 PM
This will be my first chapter break too!! I'm dreading it, I always look forward to checking for a new page. But I'm happy I jumped into the forum beforehand- I'm hoping that will make it more bearable? Right, CB survivors? please...?
When I realised the comic was approaching a chapter break, the first thing I thought about was your signature.
Post by: Tr on July 04, 2016, 02:04:11 PM
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/vereskolya/14164517/259814/259814_900.jpg)
This will be my first chapter break too!! I'm dreading it, I always look forward to checking for a new page. But I'm happy I jumped into the forum beforehand- I'm hoping that will make it more bearable? Right, CB survivors? please...?*hugs you, Miriam, and any others who have not yet survived a chapter break*
We'll be okay, I think chapter breaks are a lot nicer when you have the forum. You can look at all the cool fanart and things people make.
Post by: Tr on July 04, 2016, 09:52:28 PM
At first I thought Reynir's fylgja couldn't enter Christian spaces, but then I remembered that earlier mage vision scene (here (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=506)) where both of them were perfectly fine with hanging out in a church.
Any theories?
Post by: Juniper on July 04, 2016, 09:57:43 PM
You guys. Page 557 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=557).
At first I thought Reynir's fylgja couldn't enter Christian spaces, but then I remembered that earlier mage vision scene (here (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=506)) where both of them were perfectly fine with hanging out in a church.
Any theories?
Yeahh I was thinking the same thing, but maybe his fylgja is just being fussy ? Or maybe this is something that Reynir has to see on his own for some reason ?
Orrr this could be someone else's dream space that he keeps wandering into, both now and on page 506. I don't think we've seen Reynir's fylgja with him when he goes into other's dream spaces, only when he's in his own.
Post by: Tr on July 04, 2016, 10:27:15 PM
Yeahh I was thinking the same thing, but maybe his fylgja is just being fussy ? Or maybe this is something that Reynir has to see on his own for some reason ?Hmmm. *nodnods*
Orrr this could be someone else's dream space that he keeps wandering into, both now and on page 506. I don't think we've seen Reynir's fylgja with him when he goes into other's dream spaces, only when he's in his own.
Or perhaps there is a more powerful Christian... being? Presence? Thing? that his fylgja doesn't want to tangle with.
Or you're right, and it's the dreamspace of a kade. One that's trying to talk to/attack Reynir.
That's actually pretty unlikely... Just out of curiosity, what would be the Christian equivalent of a mage?
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 04, 2016, 10:40:02 PM
Indeed, many of these practices continue still. My parish distributes blessed candles and chalk on Epiphany, and on Rogation Sunday we go on a procession to bless the boundaries of the parish with holy water as we pray for the protection of the saints—a ritual called "beating the bounds."
Post by: Róisín on July 04, 2016, 10:46:37 PM
Post by: Tr on July 04, 2016, 10:49:34 PM
One supposes a Christian mage would be a priest or a monk or nun. In ages past it was part of the parish priest's duties to distribute holy water and blessed candles to help the faithful combat the wiles of local devils. Pilgrims flocked to the isolated hermitage of a particularly pious monk to ask him to pray for them. Priests led periodic processions through the parish to bless the fields and banish malign influences.
Indeed, many of these practices continue still. My parish distributes blessed candles and chalk on Epiphany, and on Rogation Sunday we go on a procession to bless the boundaries of the parish with holy water as we pray for the protection of the saints—a ritual called "beating the bounds."
For the ones who aren't Jesuits, just a mage. Like the Elizabethan John Dee. Or the person who wrote the Book of Lambspring, whoever Barnaud plagiarised it from. Sometimes also 'wizard', 'magician' 'wiseman or wisewoman', 'hedgewitch' or other terms. And of course some regular priestly practices are innately magical in nature.Hmmm... interesting. Thanks!
Post by: Laufey on July 05, 2016, 03:33:11 AM
One supposes a Christian mage would be a priest or a monk or nun.
There's a precedent of a magic-using Icelandic Christian! Sæmundur fróði Sigfússon, a priest and a scholar who reputedly went to the Dark University to study magic under the devil's tutelage. He should have lost his soul in bargain but managed to fool his teacher and escaped, and after that he spent his whole life fooling the devil again and again until he died peacefully of old age, the devil never getting his part of the deal.
There are numerous legends of Sæmundur, who actually was a real person and made such an impression on people that he turned into a bit of a legend. Despite him being a Christian priest there was never any attempt at hiding the fact that he used magic a lot, for various purposes, and that he had sold a deal on his soul to the devil on several accounts (or promised him that if he does thing X without failing he can finally get what was due to him, and then making the devil fail at it). He's also portrayed as rather mild-mannered, forgiving and gentle person... I remember only one story where he gets annoyed and that too only for a moment.
Sæmundur was literally a Bible-thumper; he heard there was a good position open in Iceland and made another deal with the devil so he'd bring him there fast enough so he'd be the first to apply for it. The catch was that he wouldn't get wet during the trip, which the devil accepted and started carrying him to Iceland on his back. Sæmundur spent the trip reading the Bible and when Iceland was close enough he smacked the devil on the head with said Bible, making him faint and sink into sea. Sæmundur himself had to swim for the shore but falling in water made the devil fail the deal details. There's a statue of this in front of the university of Iceland.
He was notorious for all kinds of mischief and didn't even blink if what he did was f.ex. against the law, and was always ready to help servant women who got in danger because the devil never went far away from him. He once saved a servant girl who had unwittingly promised her unborn baby to the devil, when the story makes it sort of obvious the baby was conceived out of wedlock, without even mentioning to her that she should be ashamed of either the baby or the deal she struck out of pure laziness. He also appreciated other magic users and was even outperformed by one elderly lady once when they were all making hay and had to hurry getting the dry hay indoors: she sent it from the field by magical means and he was supposed to move it in but even with all his knowledge he failed to keep up with her.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 05, 2016, 06:26:01 AM
Sæmundur fróði Sigfússon, a priest and a scholar who reputedly went to the Dark University to study magic under the devil's tutelage.
Ah, would that be the legendary Scholomance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholomance) of Transylvania, as attended by Count Dracula?
On the comic front, perhaps Reynir's fylgja only gets smart when he needs guidance or protection? The rest of the time it's just a flooffy dog. If Reynir's not in danger and/or capable of dealing with the current situation it just scratches its ear and bounces off to look for interesting smells.
Post by: Yuuago on July 05, 2016, 07:47:31 AM
On the comic front, perhaps Reynir's fylgja only gets smart when he needs guidance or protection? The rest of the time it's just a flooffy dog. If Reynir's not in danger and/or capable of dealing with the current situation it just scratches its ear and bounces off to look for interesting smells.
Judging by what we've seen so far, it does look like that's the case. :Va
Post by: Juniper on July 05, 2016, 07:58:48 PM
Post by: Tr on July 05, 2016, 08:23:22 PM
OH BOY please tell me Reynir's gonna go on a little dream quest with Onni ! *gets shipper goggles ready*Somehow I don't think Onni will be too pleased...
But he might reluctantly agree! *excitement*
Post by: Juniper on July 05, 2016, 08:28:06 PM
Somehow I don't think Onni will be too pleased...
But he might reluctantly agree! *excitement*
I was actually thinking about how unenthusiastic Onni's probably going to be about this (like, more unenthusiastic than normal . . ) especially after forbidding Lalli to leave his dream space because 'it' is looking for them again, he might not want to leave his dream space except for emergencies like rescuing them all from the murderghosts. Then again that ban on leaving dream spaces might have mostly just been pertaining to Lalli because he knows Lalli isn't as powerful or trained of a mage as he is.
Post by: Tr on July 05, 2016, 08:35:36 PM
I was actually thinking about how unenthusiastic Onni's probably going to be about this (like, more unenthusiastic than normal . . ) especially after forbidding Lalli to leave his dream space because 'it' is looking for them again, he might not want to leave his dream space except for emergencies like rescuing them all from the murderghosts. Then again that ban on leaving dream spaces might have mostly just been pertaining to Lalli because he knows Lalli isn't as powerful or trained of a mage as he is.True.
Also, Reynir could try being ambiguous and saying, "I found something really important! Come see! [insert incomprehensible Reynir-babble here]" (Onni's internal monologue: Oh gods! Is it a troll? Will it kill Tuuri! Oh no. Oh no. They're doomed.) Thus getting him to risk leaving his haven!
Post by: Juniper on July 05, 2016, 09:11:49 PM
True.
Also, Reynir could try being ambiguous and saying, "I found something really important! Come see! [insert incomprehensible Reynir-babble here]" (Onni's internal monologue: Oh gods! Is it a troll? Will it kill Tuuri! Oh no. Oh no. They're doomed.) Thus getting him to risk leaving his haven!
I'd hope there's some way Reynir could weasel Onni out of his dreamscape to go adventure with him or else this wouldn't make for much of a story x3
I'm also thinking maybe Reynir's fylgja left him because he knew he'd go to Onni to accompany him because his fylgja is also a grubby little shipper >:3c
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 05, 2016, 09:14:38 PM
Post by: Anna on July 05, 2016, 09:30:23 PM
I personally feel that the speculation on Discus about Reynir and Christianity is over-egged. Maybe he will help some Christian ghosts move on to Val Halla or what not. But he prayed to pagan gods a few pages ago, and he is apparently accustomed to seeing pagan symbols on the family farm. The expression on his face when he saw a stained-glass panel with Christian symbols on it didn't connote familiarity to me.What they really want is a Christian!Reynír AU but nobody wants to write the fic.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 05, 2016, 09:38:05 PM
Post by: Elleth on July 05, 2016, 11:04:24 PM
You guys. Page 557 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=557).
At first I thought Reynir's fylgja couldn't enter Christian spaces, but then I remembered that earlier mage vision scene (here (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=506)) where both of them were perfectly fine with hanging out in a church.
Any theories?
I took that one to be just a vision, not an actual Haven as the church appears to be, so since they weren't *actually* in a Christian space it was possible for Doggy to be present - though her being asleep does appear more significant now that she's either not seeing or plain refusing to enter the church Haven. Maybe it's a warning from the Norse gods that Reynir's fylgja is outside her/their domain of power, and that Reynir will be on his own while he meddles with another deity's space that might lay claim to him especially with the historical notion of Christianity replacing the old gods?
Post by: Juniper on July 05, 2016, 11:52:40 PM
Post by: Laufey on July 06, 2016, 02:53:56 AM
Iceland turning Christian year 1000 is actually a good example of that. Christianity did not just come over and trample the previous faith/s under heel, the deal was that though Iceland was to become Christian those people who wished to serve their old gods were allowed to do so*. The change was gradual and old ways didn't go anywhere, but existed in some form side by side with the new.
Norse people often converted for political convenience rather than actual faith, at least if going by sagas is any hint... if you wanted to side with a Christian king it was often expected of you**. Some kings even hired only Christians for their armies, meaning that joining in meant automatic baptism***. It took some hundreds of years before Christianity actually became the norm and even after that Icelanders have always blended in old traditions and newer traditions like magical staves. Unlike runes, most magical staves seem to have come to be during the time Iceland was fully Christian, they're in all likelihood younger than Christianity in Iceland since the first grimoires they're found in date from the 1700's. Many of them were in daily use and still are****.
* Íslendingabók
** Egils Saga
***Also Egils Saga
**** I live in Iceland, trust me you'll see magical staves everywhere and not just on tourist stuff (although especially on tourist stuff because tourists love them).
Post by: Tr on July 06, 2016, 07:37:47 PM
OH BOY please tell me Reynir's gonna go on a little dream quest with Onni ! *gets shipper goggles ready*I hope you still have your shipper goggles on!
I'm not really a Onni/Reynir shipper but Reynir's face in the fourth panel is adorable. And also Onni's dreamspace is beautiful
Edit: Page 559 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=559)
Post by: BlueSkyVail on July 06, 2016, 08:34:04 PM
Post by: Yuuago on July 06, 2016, 08:37:15 PM
But even WITHOUT the ship goggles, this page is a delight. It's so pretty and sneaky!Reynir is so cute!
Post by: Tr on July 06, 2016, 08:43:53 PM
I don't really consider them one of my ships, either, but I'm definitely also putting my shipper goggles on because oh my goodness I just can't help it.I will not ship them too. I must resiiiist....
*shipper googles: on*
Oh well....
Post by: Juniper on July 06, 2016, 08:44:57 PM
I hope you still have your shipper goggles on!
I'm not really a Onni/Reynir shipper but Reynir's face in the fourth panel is adorable. And also Onni's dreamspace is beautiful
Edit: Page 559 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=559)
MY SHIPPER GOGGLES ARE ALWAYS ON
But I just remembered that I've had the feeling for many chapters now that Onni probably has some pretty seriously PTSD so sneaking up on him is probably not a good idea, like at all. I mean he might not get thrown into a rock this time but one of them might end up in that pond next page.
Post by: Yuuago on July 06, 2016, 08:46:22 PM
MY SHIPPER GOGGLES ARE ALWAYS ON
But I just remembered that I've had the feeling for many chapters now that Onni probably has some pretty seriously PTSD so sneaking up on him is probably not a good idea, like at all. I mean he might not get thrown into a rock this time but one of them might end up in that pond next page.
I am A-Okay with one of them ending up in the pond. xD
... Or with Onni shoving Reynir against the nearest flat surface, considering that's what made me like this duo in the first place, ahahaha.
Post by: Pupunen on July 06, 2016, 08:50:50 PM
MY SHIPPER GOGGLES ARE ALWAYS ON
But I just remembered that I've had the feeling for many chapters now that Onni probably has some pretty seriously PTSD so sneaking up on him is probably not a good idea, like at all. I mean he might not get thrown into a rock this time but one of them might end up in that pond next page.
Now I desperately need art of a sopping wet Reynir sitting in the pond with water-lilies tangled into his braid.
Post by: Juniper on July 06, 2016, 08:58:45 PM
I am A-Okay with one of them ending up in the pond. xD*cough* ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
... Or with Onni shoving Reynir against the nearest flat surface, considering that's what made me like this duo in the first place, ahahaha.
Now I desperately need art of a sopping wet Reynir sitting in the pond with water-lilies tangled into his braid.Same ! Someone said something about Reynir winding up in the pond in the comments and I was like "actually, I kind of need that now . . "
Post by: Tr on July 06, 2016, 09:30:45 PM
Now I desperately need art of a sopping wet Reynir sitting in the pond with water-lilies tangled into his braid.Ummm. *cough* I may or may not have already started drawing it, and finished with the lineart and started working on colors.
Post by: Róisín on July 06, 2016, 10:30:24 PM
Post by: Tr on July 06, 2016, 11:09:54 PM
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/ed/8d/23/ed8d2343f0edd2f832fc37dd2e3fee1a.jpg)
One sopping wet Reynir. He looks a lot sadder than I intended, but he will probably recover in the next 5 seconds. ;)
Excellent, Tr. By the way, the picture you made for me is lovely!Thanks! ^-^
Post by: Juniper on July 06, 2016, 11:16:28 PM
Here you go!
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/ed/8d/23/ed8d2343f0edd2f832fc37dd2e3fee1a.jpg)
One sopping wet Reynir. He looks a lot sadder than I intended, but he will probably recover in the next 5 seconds. ;)
Ahhh this is so good and so adorable !! Poor bab was probably just caught off guard, I'm sure you're right and he'll recover pretty quick :3
Post by: Eris on July 06, 2016, 11:18:07 PM
Post by: Pupunen on July 06, 2016, 11:20:55 PM
Here you go!
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/ed/8d/23/ed8d2343f0edd2f832fc37dd2e3fee1a.jpg)
One sopping wet Reynir. He looks a lot sadder than I intended, but he will probably recover in the next 5 seconds. ;)Thanks! ^-^
Oooooh, this is perfect! So cute! Thank you! <3
Post by: Tr on July 06, 2016, 11:28:00 PM
Ahhh this is so good and so adorable !! Poor bab was probably just caught off guard, I'm sure you're right and he'll recover pretty quick :3
Tr, that's so cute! Thanks so much for sharing! :D
Oooooh, this is perfect! So cute! Thank you! <3Aaaaa, thanks!! Reynir is the cutest and therefore also the most fun to draw :3
Post by: Athena on July 06, 2016, 11:30:19 PM
Here you go!
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/ed/8d/23/ed8d2343f0edd2f832fc37dd2e3fee1a.jpg)
One sopping wet Reynir. He looks a lot sadder than I intended, but he will probably recover in the next 5 seconds. ;)Thanks! ^-^
ooh, I like this!
Post by: Róisín on July 07, 2016, 12:12:52 AM
Post by: Juniper on July 08, 2016, 03:25:02 AM
Post by: Yuuago on July 08, 2016, 07:31:18 AM
Onni weirdly reminds me of Lalli in the last panel of today's page (560) from the way his face is set, which seems like a common way for Lalli to set his face, to the fact that what he's saying is both spacey and a little awkward.
...Huh. I see what you mean. ~Family resemblance~...!
Post by: Juniper on July 08, 2016, 11:56:54 PM
Post by: Piney on July 09, 2016, 01:50:31 AM
Mkay so it's over-analyzing time, but in the first panel of page 560 I feel like there's such a contrast between Reynir and Onni besides just the obvious of their expressions. First of all there's the color scheme, Reynir's part of the panel is a lot of warm colors mostly while Onni's part of the panel is a lot of cool colors. Then there's the shading, Reynir's part of the panel seems to have more of the light source directing shining on him and in general lighter while Onni's part of the panel is more shadows and shading. Then of course there's the obvious of their moods and expressions, Reynir's all warm and smiling and "sunny" while Onni's flinching away in terror. So much contrast I don't know if it's intentional or not but it adds so much mood to that panel.
Yesss I definitely agree, I do feel like Minna does use color symbolism intentionally a lot of the time. (but then again I've written a paper on color symbolism in SSSS, so I'm also one for over-analyzing ::))
Post by: Juniper on July 09, 2016, 08:40:07 AM
Yesss I definitely agree, I do feel like Minna does use color symbolism intentionally a lot of the time. (but then again I've written a paper on color symbolism in SSSS, so I'm also one for over-analyzing ::))
Okay that's really cool and I'd actually be interested in hearing some of your other analysis's :D
EDIT: Also, for anyone who doesn't look at the SSSS twitter apparently the second half of the story is going to get quite a bit more 'glum' and 'angsty' *anxious screaching*
Post by: Talimee on July 09, 2016, 09:51:31 AM
EDIT: Also, for anyone who doesn't look at the SSSS twitter apparently the second half of the story is going to get quite a bit more 'glum' and 'angsty' *anxious screaching*
Oh gods! D: Now I will just fret and fret and wonder what will happen! Ack! But thanks for the heads-up anyway, Juniper.
Yesss I definitely agree, I do feel like Minna does use color symbolism intentionally a lot of the time. (but then again I've written a paper on color symbolism in SSSS, so I'm also one for over-analyzing ::))
Piney! Is there a chance of reading that paper?
Post by: Lazy8 on July 09, 2016, 09:58:46 AM
EDIT: Also, for anyone who doesn't look at the SSSS twitter apparently the second half of the story is going to get quite a bit more 'glum' and 'angsty' *anxious screaching*
Wait wait wait angst?
*ends up full-body splatted on the glass in my haste to smash my face to the screen*
(Seriously, this looks like just the thing that I needed to remedy my flagging enthusiasm for the story.)
Post by: Lazy8 on July 09, 2016, 10:54:47 AM
The Hotakainens: Did someone say "Saimaa"? I think someone did. Why did they relocate? What happened to their parents? Why do Tuuri, Lalli, and Onni all show signs of past trauma? What, exactly, is "It"? Will "It" show up again? (I think that "It" will.) Oh yes, not to mention that Tuuri just had to go and jinx things a few pages ago with all of her death flagging...
Emil: Ah, such an ill-adjusted ball of teenage boy insecurities. We know that Emil has had a lot of trouble relating to other people in the past, and yes, a good deal of this is his own fault. It's also hard not to pity him, though, since it's clear that his parents done goofed on a number of different points, and Emil has so much kindness and empathy buried under his "rich idiot" training, and he's been trying so hard to prove himself. Somehow I can't help but wonder whether the latter half of the story is where we'll really see Emil come into his own in the field - possibly because he's forced into it? (Hm, now wondering whether Emil's behavior when he's in danger contrasted with his behavior when Lalli's in danger might be some sort of foreshadowing?)
Sigrun: Why is she so dead set against backtracking? Something happened in her past, that much is clear, to convince her that it's never an acceptable course of action, that people will die if she does. And call it a hunch, but I can't shake the feeling that Sigrun is the one most likely to get seriously hurt at some point. (I'm keeping my blanket fort all nice and set up for self-burial.)
Mikkel: One word: Kastrup. I found his reaction when Sigrun was in mortal danger to be incredibly telling: up to that point he'd been keeping his distance from everyone, almost as if he didn't want to let himself get close to people, but went straight to being flat-out terrified for her sake. We know he's lost friends to Kastrup. There's also been a lot of speculation that he's here on his own mission, unbeknownst to any of the others. What I see here is Mikkel deliberately trying not to get too close to any of these people, possibly for multiple reasons, but he's slowly getting attached to them anyway, and at some point that's all going to come crashing down on his head, especially if he really does have more than one reason for joining the group that's eventually revealed to the others.
Reynir: Personally I think that Reynir might be heading for a massive existential crisis. His parents lied to him. Onni might be overprotective but at least he didn't try to force the issue; when Tuuri decided to leave on her own initiative, he let her. Reynir had to sneak away, and landed himself in a heap of trouble as a result. It strikes me that he hasn't yet expressed any anger over his parents' manipulation, but I wonder whether that might not be about to change after he meets them again, after having developed his confidence, discovered his magic, and picked up a greater degree of self-reliance?
*looks at time*
No! Bad me! Very bad me! IhaveathesistoturninonMondayIneedtostopdoingthisnowAAAARGH!
Post by: Eris on July 09, 2016, 11:30:35 AM
EDIT: Also, for anyone who doesn't look at the SSSS twitter apparently the second half of the story is going to get quite a bit more 'glum' and 'angsty' *anxious screaching*Noooooo, I forbid it!
Post by: Yuuago on July 09, 2016, 11:31:22 AM
*rapidly shuffles through all of the most likely possibilities*
The Hotakainens: Did someone say "Saimaa"? I think someone did. Why did they relocate? What happened to their parents? Why do Tuuri, Lalli, and Onni all show signs of past trauma? What, exactly, is "It"? Will "It" show up again? (I think that "It" will.) Oh yes, not to mention that Tuuri just had to go and jinx things a few pages ago with all of her death flagging...
Emil: Ah, such an ill-adjusted ball of teenage boy insecurities. We know that Emil has had a lot of trouble relating to other people in the past, and yes, a good deal of this is his own fault. It's also hard not to pity him, though, since it's clear that his parents done goofed on a number of different points, and Emil has so much kindness and empathy buried under his "rich idiot" training, and he's been trying so hard to prove himself. Somehow I can't help but wonder whether the latter half of the story is where we'll really see Emil come into his own in the field - possibly because he's forced into it? (Hm, now wondering whether Emil's behavior when he's in danger contrasted with his behavior when Lalli's in danger might be some sort of foreshadowing?)
Sigrun: Why is she so dead set against backtracking? Something happened in her past, that much is clear, to convince her that it's never an acceptable course of action, that people will die if she does. And call it a hunch, but I can't shake the feeling that Sigrun is the one most likely to get seriously hurt at some point. (I'm keeping my blanket fort all nice and set up for self-burial.)
Mikkel: One word: Kastrup. I found his reaction when Sigrun was in mortal danger to be incredibly telling: up to that point he'd been keeping his distance from everyone, almost as if he didn't want to let himself get close to people, but went straight to being flat-out terrified for her sake. We know he's lost friends to Kastrup. There's also been a lot of speculation that he's here on his own mission, unbeknownst to any of the others. What I see here is Mikkel deliberately trying not to get too close to any of these people, possibly for multiple reasons, but he's slowly getting attached to them anyway, and at some point that's all going to come crashing down on his head, especially if he really does have more than one reason for joining the group that's eventually revealed to the others.
Reynir: Personally I think that Reynir might be heading for a massive existential crisis. His parents lied to him. Onni might be overprotective but at least he didn't try to force the issue; when Tuuri decided to leave on her own initiative, he let her. Reynir had to sneak away, and landed himself in a heap of trouble as a result. It strikes me that he hasn't yet expressed any anger over his parents' manipulation, but I wonder whether that might not be about to change after he meets them again, after having developed his confidence, discovered his magic, and picked up a greater degree of self-reliance?
*looks at time*
No! Bad me! Very bad me! IhaveathesistoturninonMondayIneedtostopdoingthisnowAAAARGH!
I like all of these possibilities. And by "like" I mean any one of them would probably turn me into a sobbing mess. : D Great ideas! (I wonder which one it will be... Or something else entirely? )
/patpatgoodluckwiththesis
Post by: Lazy8 on July 09, 2016, 11:42:39 AM
I like all of these possibilities. And by "like" I mean any one of them would probably turn me into a sobbing mess. : D Great ideas! (I wonder which one it will be... Or something else entirely? )
/patpatgoodluckwiththesis
...all of them? Plus a few murderghosts thrown in?
And thank you! *bows* I never feel like I truly belong to a fandom until I've made someone cry. >:D
Post by: Lazy8 on July 09, 2016, 01:45:48 PM
Could be all of them and then some! I think I can handle exploring dark past, I actually want to see that and there are so many open questions on that front. Of course it all ties together, but I'm more worried that there's something truly terrifying in their future, or something that takes two years in our time to resolve.
Come to think of it, fan theories about the Hotakainen backstory for example already are remarkably darker than what has been explored in the actual storyline, and if some of that turns out to be canon - not just implied but actually handled in the story - it's going to be a quite different mood. I think the question pressing me is 'how much worse does it get'. :S
Oh well, if it's the future you're talking about...
- They still have to deal with those murderghosts
- A kade enters the story
- "It" catches up with them
- Someone gets seriously hurt (right now my bet is on Sigrun, then Lalli, though Emil is also a prime candidate)
- Infection scare with one of the non-immunes
- Actual infection with one of the non-immunes, and they end up having to put that cure to the test
- They end up trapped in the Silent World with all of its dangers into the spring or summer
- They lose the tank
...come to think of it, I've already written a fair number of those. Yaaas, my fics are now vindicated.
(http://gargwiki.net/images/thumb/5/57/Xanatos3.PNG/360px-Xanatos3.PNG)
Post by: Juniper on July 09, 2016, 02:29:19 PM
Oh well, if it's the future you're talking about...
- They still have to deal with those murderghosts
- A kade enters the story
- "It" catches up with them
- Someone gets seriously hurt (right now my bet is on Sigrun, then Lalli, though Emil is also a prime candidate)
- Infection scare with one of the non-immunes
- Actual infection with one of the non-immunes, and they end up having to put that cure to the test
- They end up trapped in the Silent World with all of its dangers into the spring or summer
- They lose the tank
...come to think of it, I've already written a fair number of those. Yaaas, my fics are now vindicated.
(http://gargwiki.net/images/thumb/5/57/Xanatos3.PNG/360px-Xanatos3.PNG)
I know I've said this like five times but at this point I almost want a kade to enter the story so we can see a good ol' magic brawl between the kade and any combination of our three mages.
Also, quite a few of my friend IRL are talking about how weird it is that this is a post-apocalyptic story and there's been no major character death so far. It would be really cool if it could stay that way and everything, and I'd dread a major character death to be any of the younger four crew members because they're all precious little babies, but I think especially something happening to Lalli or Reynir would absolutely destroy me, but I don't think with how much investment into character building that's been put into those two that we'd get a major character death from them, right ?!?
Post by: Eris on July 09, 2016, 02:38:00 PM
I know I've said this like five times but at this point I almost want a kade to enter the story so we can see a good ol' magic brawl between the kade and any combination of our three mages.I also would love to see a kade come into the story. That would be so cool!
But no character deaths, please. Eris does not want that.
Post by: Lazy8 on July 09, 2016, 03:54:20 PM
Post by: Eris on July 09, 2016, 04:30:45 PM
I don't actually think that anyone's going to die.*clings to this hope*
Post by: Juniper on July 09, 2016, 04:46:41 PM
I don't actually think that anyone's going to die. How close they can come, though, is another matter entirely...
But ahh yeah character near deaths / death scares, that had me thinking we've seen it happen like three times now that either Lalli's been in danger or Emil thought he was in danger and Emil freaks out a little but we haven't really seen much of the opposite happening, what if we saw Emil have a near death experience and actually get some sort of strong emotional reaction out of Lalli from that ?
Post by: Tr on July 09, 2016, 04:49:37 PM
*clings to this hope*Hey, the comic's selburose logo has six petals. If someone died, it would mess up the symbolism.
*nods wisely*
I can see an infection scare happening though. Or somebody actually getting infected but then the team finds the cure. Or serious injury.
what if we saw Emil have a near death experience and actually get some sort of strong emotional reaction out of Lalli from that ?(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag444/Fimbulvarg/ship1_zpsnszhvrjt.png)
Post by: Eris on July 09, 2016, 05:03:26 PM
But ahh yeah character near deaths / death scares, that had me thinking we've seen it happen like three times now that either Lalli's been in danger or Emil thought he was in danger and Emil freaks out a little but we haven't really seen much of the opposite happening, what if we saw Emil have a near death experience and actually get some sort of strong emotional reaction out of Lalli from that ?Things like this feed my shipper heart. ^-^
Post by: pinkie on July 09, 2016, 05:21:14 PM
There's a theory that says Onni and Lalli's granny was/is a kade. Which may or may not be the "it" that is pursuing them.
Post by: Laufey on July 09, 2016, 05:59:00 PM
There's a theory that says Onni and Lalli's granny was/is a kade. Which may or may not be the "it" that is pursuing them.
Kade doesn't make you change form, so if she were still kade she'd be a human... what I'm thinking is that becoming kade might have been what caused her to make that big mistake that's been hinted at.
...which in turn makes me wonder what she would have envied so hard that it would have twisted her character so badly that she'd begin to wish ill for whoever she was envying. What did she want so badly for herself that she would have thought the other one had no right to have that? Was someone in the family perhaps stronger than her on mage power levels?
Post by: Tr on July 09, 2016, 06:04:16 PM
Kade doesn't make you change form, so if she were still kade she'd be a human... what I'm thinking is that becoming kade might have been what caused her to make that big mistake that's been hinted at.(http://i.imgur.com/STBzeAH.jpg)
...which in turn makes me wonder what she would have envied so hard that it would have twisted her character so badly that she'd begin to wish ill for whoever she was envying. What did she want so badly for herself that she would have thought the other one had no right to have that? Was someone in the family perhaps stronger than her on mage power levels?
I like this theory!
Post by: Miriam on July 09, 2016, 06:13:11 PM
There's a theory that says Onni and Lalli's granny was/is a kade. Which may or may not be the "it" that is pursuing them.
Nooooo
Nope, nope, nope*presses hands against ears while singing "lalala"*
Post by: Anna on July 09, 2016, 06:25:28 PM
I know I've said this like five times but at this point I almost want a kade to enter the story so we can see a good ol' magic brawl between the kade and any combination of our three mages.I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Minna promised us there'd be no major character death. Please someone tell me I'm right, I couldn't stand losing anyone!
Also, quite a few of my friend IRL are talking about how weird it is that this is a post-apocalyptic story and there's been no major character death so far. It would be really cool if it could stay that way and everything, and I'd dread a major character death to be any of the younger four crew members because they're all precious little babies, but I think especially something happening to Lalli or Reynir would absolutely destroy me, but I don't think with how much investment into character building that's been put into those two that we'd get a major character death from them, right ?!?
Post by: Pupunen on July 09, 2016, 06:29:09 PM
I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Minna promised us there'd be no major character death. Please someone tell me I'm right, I couldn't stand losing anyone!
Who counts as a major character, though? Because I feel like killing Onni could strike the right balance between not sacrificing anyone from the main crew but still having a lot of emotional impact...
Post by: Eris on July 09, 2016, 06:33:33 PM
I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Minna promised us there'd be no major character death. Please someone tell me I'm right, I couldn't stand losing anyone!If anyone can confirm this, I would be grateful.
Who counts as a major character, though? Because I feel like killing Onni could strike the right balance between not sacrificing anyone from the main crew but still having a lot of emotional impact...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I reject hurting Onni, too! I love Onni. I reassert my plea: no character deaths! Losing Mamma Kitty was hard enough on me.
Post by: Tr on July 09, 2016, 06:33:53 PM
Who counts as a major character, though? Because I feel like killing Onni could strike the right balance between not sacrificing anyone from the main crew but still having a lot of emotional impact...(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/scJf994jj297X1weKAKGCxZn6QTEAWwUqyfb48IaeeY=w155-h188-no)
NOT ONNI NOOOOOOOOO!
Post by: Yuuago on July 09, 2016, 06:42:28 PM
Who counts as a major character, though? Because I feel like killing Onni could strike the right balance between not sacrificing anyone from the main crew but still having a lot of emotional impact...
D:
Pupunen, you put that idea back in your head where you found it, because that is NOPE with NOPE sauce and a huge bowl of NOPE for dessert!
...I mean, you're not wrong, but I would seriously cry if it happened. xD
Post by: Laufey on July 09, 2016, 06:53:44 PM
Who counts as a major character, though? Because I feel like killing Onni could strike the right balance between not sacrificing anyone from the main crew but still having a lot of emotional impact...
*tries very hard to not think of what tends to happen to mentor characters*
Post by: Pupunen on July 09, 2016, 06:54:12 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I reject hurting Onni, too! I love Onni. I reassert my plea: no character deaths! Losing Mamma Kitty was hard enough on me.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/scJf994jj297X1weKAKGCxZn6QTEAWwUqyfb48IaeeY=w155-h188-no)
NOT ONNI NOOOOOOOOO!
D:
Pupunen, you put that idea back in your head where you found it, because that is NOPE with NOPE sauce and a huge bowl of NOPE for dessert!
...I mean, you're not wrong, but I would seriously cry if it happened. xD
I'm sorry! If it's any consolation, pretty much all my guesses about where the story is going have been wrong so far, so this one probably is, too. :D And I also want Onni to stay alive and safe!
Post by: Juniper on July 09, 2016, 07:11:40 PM
I'm sorry! If it's any consolation, pretty much all my guesses about where the story is going have been wrong so far, so this one probably is, too. :D And I also want Onni to stay alive and safe!
Hmm, I mean I can't see any way of it happening but there's also the other four members of the support crew, all four of which are either biological family or honorary family to a main crew member so their death would still be feels worthy if nothing else to see our dear main crew member get all emotionally wreck'd over loosing a family member / honorary family member. I mean again I couldn't see a way how they're safe back in Mora and can't do the mage stuff like Onni (that we know of) and I don't know if it would even fit the nature of their character to be killed off but, idk.
But yeah I've been a bit worried about Onni too D:
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 09, 2016, 08:50:06 PM
Everyone will be safe!
Ships will work out!
Everything will be wonderful!
(*hides under blankets*)
Post by: Tr on July 09, 2016, 09:27:55 PM
No one is going to die!*joins you under the blankets and starts chanting*
Everyone will be safe!
Ships will work out!
Everything will be wonderful!
(*hides under blankets*)
No one will die.
No one will die.
No one will die.
Post by: Eris on July 10, 2016, 12:17:43 AM
No one is going to die!<insert glee>
Everyone will be safe!
Ships will work out!
Everything will be wonderful!
(*hides under blankets*)
>:D
Post by: Piney on July 10, 2016, 01:10:29 AM
Okay that's really cool and I'd actually be interested in hearing some of your other analysis's :D
EDIT: Also, for anyone who doesn't look at the SSSS twitter apparently the second half of the story is going to get quite a bit more 'glum' and 'angsty' *anxious screaching*
Piney! Is there a chance of reading that paper?
Hrmm, I would share it, but I wrote it when I was very sleep-deprived and never proofread it so I doubt it's my best work :P
Ships will work out!
So, all ships considered... does this mean it'll end up in one big polyamorous mishmash? ::)
Post by: Yuuago on July 10, 2016, 01:14:53 AM
So, all ships considered... does this mean it'll end up in one big polyamorous mishmash? ::)
Works for me.
/Slaps stamp of approval on it
;)
Post by: pinkie on July 10, 2016, 01:39:21 AM
Uh, yeah...I don't know how to quote properly.
Anyway, is it possible for a kade mage to turn into a troll?
Post by: pinkie on July 10, 2016, 01:42:20 AM
So the SSSS info page http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=412 just says that a kade is a turned mage. Turned as in generally becoming evil, or turned as in turned into a troll?
Post by: Laufey on July 10, 2016, 02:32:38 AM
Anyway, is it possible for a kade mage to turn into a troll?
Definitely, if they're non-immune.
P.S. I'm not an expert on Finnish mythology, so somebody smack me if I'm talking nonsense here.
So the SSSS info page http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=412 just says that a kade is a turned mage. Turned as in generally becoming evil, or turned as in turned into a troll?
Generally becoming envious to the point where they're ready to harm whoever they envy. In Finnish mythology anyone can become kade, not only magic users, but it could be that in Minnaverse only mages are in danger of becoming one. Here's more kade info. (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=747.msg113676#msg113676)
Post by: JoB on July 10, 2016, 05:03:05 AM
OK, let's See what else we can arrange for you ...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I reject hurting Onni, too! I love Onni. I reassert my plea: no character deaths! Losing Mamma Kitty was hard enough on me.
... Onni and Trond lead the rest of the Quartet (plus nannyswarm, if you insist) to safety while "it" steamrollers Mora behind them? >:D
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 10, 2016, 07:23:58 AM
So, all ships considered... does this mean it'll end up in one big polyamorous mishmash? ::)
It'll be a kind of quantum superimposition of ships that only resolves while viewed by a particular shipper, then reverses itself when not under observation. I can't see that that should be a problem for someone as talented as Minna ;D
Post by: Lazy8 on July 10, 2016, 07:44:33 AM
It'll be a kind of quantum superimposition of ships that only resolves while viewed by a particular shipper, then reverses itself when not under observation. I can't see that that should be a problem for someone as talented as Minna ;D
Well, Minna has all but stated that to be her intention from the start, so...
Post by: BlueSkyVail on July 10, 2016, 01:22:29 PM
*joins you under the blankets and starts chanting*
No one will die.
No one will die.
No one will die.
*whispers*
No one will die.
No one will die.
No one will die.
It's gonna be okay... right? RIGHT?
It'll be a kind of quantum superimposition of ships that only resolves while viewed by a particular shipper, then reverses itself when not under observation. I can't see that that should be a problem for someone as talented as Minna ;D
It seems like this is kinda already happening. And it's great. Especially because it means that one shipper can look at it from multiple conflicting perspectives and still be happy! :D
Post by: Tr on July 10, 2016, 01:42:29 PM
*whispers*RIGHT!!!
No one will die.
No one will die.
No one will die.
It's gonna be okay... right? RIGHT?
It seems like this is kinda already happening. And it's great. Especially because it means that one shipper can look at it from multiple conflicting perspectives and still be happy! :DI vote for "No ship is impossible" as the forum shipping motto! \o/
Post by: BlueSkyVail on July 10, 2016, 02:08:11 PM
I vote for "No ship is impossible" as the forum shipping motto! \o/
Well, you have my approval. ;)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 10, 2016, 07:05:41 PM
Isn't this what's going on anyway at this moment? ::)
It seems like this is kinda already happening. And it's great. Especially because it means that one shipper can look at it from multiple conflicting perspectives and still be happy! :D
Well there we go! It's already happened! Which means that...
a) Minna is brilliant.
b) EVERYTHING ELSE I SAID WILL COME TRUE!
(You cannot convince me otherwise you cannot!!)
Post by: Minutia_R on July 10, 2016, 10:16:47 PM
And hey! Reynir has apparently learned where Onni's buttons are! And he fights dirty.
Post by: Juniper on July 10, 2016, 10:28:43 PM
Oh my God, Onni's expression in the first panel is priceless.
And hey! Reynir has apparently learned where Onni's buttons are! And he fights dirty.
I dunno if Reynir is just trying to push Onni's buttons or if Reynir actually is worried about them all dying horribly if they just ignore something to do with Reynir's visions considering last time something to do with one of Reynir's was ignored they did all almost die horribly.
But nothing gives me life more than that floofy hood Onni wears with the two floofy things sticking out of the top that might be ears and how they're always lopsided.
Post by: Kelpie on July 10, 2016, 10:52:21 PM
Quote from: Juniper
But nothing gives me life more than that floofy hood Onni wears with the two floofy things sticking out of the top that might be ears and how they're always lopsided.I just really want to stick a toothpick under it or something ok. I like my things neat and symmetrical. *looks around at messy room*
Quote from: Minutia_R
And he fights dirty.
Quote from: Juniper
I dunno if Reynir is just trying to push Onni's buttons or if Reynir actually is worried about them all dying horribly if they just ignore something to do with Reynir's visions considering last time something to do with one of Reynir's was ignored they did all almost die horribly.Since he has so many siblings that I have lost count, I'm guessing he's learned some dirty tricks growing up. You can't just exist as the youngest sibling in a big family and not. Though I am thinking that he is indeed very concerned about something bad happening if he doesn't go investigate or else I don't think he would be all yelly. He doesn't seem to be the yelly type.
Post by: Tr on July 10, 2016, 11:01:21 PM
But nothing gives me life more than that floofy hood Onni wears with the two floofy things sticking out of the top that might be ears and how they're always lopsided.Onni and his lopsided floofy hood thingies are the MOST adorable. <3
This is... pretty much all I have to add to the conversation. :P
Post by: Anna on July 10, 2016, 11:18:24 PM
I just really want to stick a toothpick under it or something ok. I like my things neat and symmetrical. *looks around at messy room*
Since he has so many siblings that I have lost count, I'm guessing he's learned some dirty tricks growing up. You can't just exist as the youngest sibling in a big family and not. Though I am thinking that he is indeed very concerned about something bad happening if he doesn't go investigate or else I don't think he would be all yelly. He doesn't seem to be the yelly type.
Reynír has four older siblings that I can recall.
Post by: Minutia_R on July 10, 2016, 11:26:00 PM
I just really want to stick a toothpick under it or something ok. I like my things neat and symmetrical. *looks around at messy room*
Since he has so many siblings that I have lost count, I'm guessing he's learned some dirty tricks growing up. You can't just exist as the youngest sibling in a big family and not. Though I am thinking that he is indeed very concerned about something bad happening if he doesn't go investigate or else I don't think he would be all yelly. He doesn't seem to be the yelly type.
Yeah, I didn't mean to say that Reynir is not genuinely concerned, but ... I don't know, something about the way he puts it makes me think he knows exactly what he's doing.
Post by: Kelpie on July 10, 2016, 11:45:36 PM
Quote from: Minutia_R
Yeah, I didn't mean to say that Reynir is not genuinely concerned, but ... I don't know, something about the way he puts it makes me think he knows exactly what he's doing.Oh, well I didn't mean to say that you didn't think he was genuinely concerned, all I was going at was that he is indeed being manipulative, but manipulative because he's genuinely concerned. Which I probably did not get across very well... It's late for me and this is why I don't normally get in discussions when it's late XD
Quote from: Anna
Reynír has four older siblings that I can recall.Okay, thanks! I had an extreme lack of motivation to go figure it out.
Post by: Juniper on July 11, 2016, 01:34:31 AM
I just really want to stick a toothpick under it or something ok. I like my things neat and symmetrical. *looks around at messy room*Now I'm picturing Onni looking really confused as someone adjusts his ear floof things, or better yet sticks a tooth pick under one.
Post by: thorny on July 11, 2016, 03:00:16 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on July 11, 2016, 03:14:26 PM
I'm not entirely sure Onni's ear-fluffs aren't expressing emotion. In the last panel, I could swear he's got his ears laid back.
That could be! It's the dream world, after all. In which case, what emotion are his usual asymmetrical ear-fluffs expressing? "I am a giant dork"?
(I say this with love.)
Post by: thorny on July 11, 2016, 03:20:41 PM
In which case, what emotion are his usual asymmetrical ear-fluffs expressing?
Confusion? Mixed emotions? Listening to more than one thing at once?
Cats, at least, often have their ears pointing in different directions.
Post by: JoB on July 11, 2016, 04:45:04 PM
In which case, what emotion are his usual asymmetrical ear-fluffs expressing? "I am a giant dork"?"I feel an imbalance in the force!"
Post by: urbicande on July 11, 2016, 04:57:21 PM
Oh, well I didn't mean to say that you didn't think he was genuinely concerned, all I was going at was that he is indeed being manipulative, but manipulative because he's genuinely concerned. Which I probably did not get across very well... It's
Reynir vs. Tuuri -- Steel Cage Match
Post by: Minutia_R on July 11, 2016, 10:10:11 PM
Reynir vs. Tuuri -- Steel Cage Match
Sorry.
Post by: urbicande on July 12, 2016, 07:21:38 AM
Sorry.
Nah, I'm gonna just go and get the popcorn. I think the two of them would be...interesting. They're both clearly a lot sneakier than they appear.
Post by: Juniper on July 13, 2016, 02:34:23 AM
But at least it's kind of neat how much he reminds me of Lalli in the last panel.
Post by: urbicande on July 13, 2016, 08:11:59 AM
What the heck is chasing him?
Post by: kjeks on July 14, 2016, 03:16:02 AM
https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=6.0
and it says topic=6.0
This really was the sixth topic on this forum woooot?
merged :)
Post by: Róisín on July 14, 2016, 03:21:06 AM
Post by: Yuuago on July 14, 2016, 07:47:43 AM
Look what I found:
https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=6.0
and it says topic=6.0
This really was the sixth topic on this forum woooot?
Yuuago and Fimbulvarg would you mind me merging them some time in the near future?
Huh! Wow. : D
I don't mind at all.
Post by: kjeks on July 14, 2016, 07:55:39 AM
Huh! Wow. : DThanks!
I don't mind at all.
Done so - and now let's see what the new page will bring on friday =)
Post by: Miriam on July 15, 2016, 05:18:19 AM
Post by: Krisse Kovacs on July 15, 2016, 08:42:11 AM
About page 563 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=563), I think Reynir still doesn't realise Onni can't walk over water. Apparently he can when pushed by an Icelandic mage, though.it is more like, he CAN, but he was scared. and we knew that. About his ability on walking on water was unknown
But Onni run next to Reynir, not in Reynir's steps like Lalli, he can walk on water, it seems.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/2c8d84edeaf540ef48f27c9ad8ed86cf/tumblr_inline_oacw0pGfmD1r64chh_540.png)
Post by: Miriam on July 15, 2016, 08:59:41 AM
it is more like, he CAN, but he was scared. and we knew that. About his ability on walking on water was unknown
But Onni run next to Reynir, not in Reynir's steps like Lalli, he can walk on water, it seems.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/2c8d84edeaf540ef48f27c9ad8ed86cf/tumblr_inline_oacw0pGfmD1r64chh_540.png)
I interpret that panel as if the lake stops there and the water isn't deep, so the last steps he can walk.
Post by: urbicande on July 15, 2016, 09:02:27 AM
Post by: Miriam on July 15, 2016, 09:11:03 AM
Personally, I love the way Reynir just pushes Onni across the water.
Yes, hahaha! Off topic, but in the game Animal Crossing (New Leaf) I used to push idle people around just like that, when they visited my town. When they returned to their 3DS they didn't understand how they came at the other side of the town. Good times...
Also, Reynir must be strong or something. Tuuri had trouble pushing Lalli when he didn't want to go in the train to Denmark, so pushing an Onni who isn't voluntary coming, must be hard...
Post by: urbicande on July 15, 2016, 09:26:46 AM
Yes, hahaha! Off topic, but in the game Animal Crossing (New Leaf) I used to push idle people around just like that, when they visited my town. When they returned to their 3DS they didn't understand how they came at the other side of the town. Good times...
Also, Reynir must be strong or something. Tuuri had trouble pushing Lalli when he didn't want to go in the train to Denmark, so pushing an Onni who isn't voluntary coming, must be hard...
Yeah, although that was in the physical world, not the dreamworld. And I suspect that, untrained though he is, Reynir is a pretty strong (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=477) mage.
Post by: Miriam on July 15, 2016, 09:32:31 AM
Yeah, although that was in the physical world, not the dreamworld. And I suspect that, untrained though he is, Reynir is a pretty strong (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=477) mage.
It was the dreamworld for Onni too, so if Reynir is stronger there then he must be too. And I think that being a strong mage is something else than being physically strong... or is it?
Post by: urbicande on July 15, 2016, 09:52:57 AM
It was the dreamworld for Onni too, so if Reynir is stronger there then he must be too. And I think that being a strong mage is something else than being physically strong... or is it?
It's hard to say. And Onni was caught by surprise. (And also mainly works in defensive magic, so who knows how that relates. Obviously he can't keep Reynir out of his personal space)
Post by: Mayabird on July 15, 2016, 01:32:24 PM
Probably wrong, but wouldn't that be exciting?
Post by: Miriam on July 15, 2016, 02:11:11 PM
Something I saw in the comments which is an exciting idea - what if the church is a different person's dreamspace? Lalli has his cove with paths, Onni has his rock shelter and Reynir his grassy meadow with sheep. Reynir has demonstrated that he can accidentally enter other people's dreamspaces (including before he met the team, when he ran into Lalli's dream). The first time Reynir found himself in the pews, there was a voice asking if someone was there, and Christianity appears to have died out in Scandinavia, so then this could be someone outside the Known World.
Probably wrong, but wouldn't that be exciting?
That would be very interesting. We'll see. If Onni isn't able to enter the church, then the hypothesis is correct. So it's easy to check, we'll find out.
Post by: Juniper on July 15, 2016, 05:42:06 PM
Post by: Eris on July 15, 2016, 07:42:53 PM
Something I saw in the comments which is an exciting idea - what if the church is a different person's dreamspace? Lalli has his cove with paths, Onni has his rock shelter and Reynir his grassy meadow with sheep. Reynir has demonstrated that he can accidentally enter other people's dreamspaces (including before he met the team, when he ran into Lalli's dream). The first time Reynir found himself in the pews, there was a voice asking if someone was there, and Christianity appears to have died out in Scandinavia, so then this could be someone outside the Known World.I want it to be another person so badly it hurts. I mean, wouldn't that be a neat discovery to bring back to the known world? A whole colony of other people, previously lost! Because it couldn't just be like one person, or else we'd have to end up with another cast member, and we already have all our main cast members, right? Oooh, the suspense!
Probably wrong, but wouldn't that be exciting?
Post by: BlueSkyVail on July 15, 2016, 08:08:16 PM
Something I saw in the comments which is an exciting idea - what if the church is a different person's dreamspace? Lalli has his cove with paths, Onni has his rock shelter and Reynir his grassy meadow with sheep. Reynir has demonstrated that he can accidentally enter other people's dreamspaces (including before he met the team, when he ran into Lalli's dream). The first time Reynir found himself in the pews, there was a voice asking if someone was there, and Christianity appears to have died out in Scandinavia, so then this could be someone outside the Known World.
Probably wrong, but wouldn't that be exciting?
I saw this in the comments too and I really, really like this idea! And the thought of encountering someone outside the known world is so enticing and scary and awesome... Very impatient to see where this all goes.
I want it to be another person so badly it hurts. I mean, wouldn't that be a neat discovery to bring back to the known world? A whole colony of other people, previously lost! Because it couldn't just be like one person, or else we'd have to end up with another cast member, and we already have all our main cast members, right? Oooh, the suspense!
Same!!! But I also am wondering about the whole new-cast-member-thing. And the whole fact that this is in the dream space, so if it was someone new or something important, how would they share it with everyone else? Would they share it with the others?
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on July 15, 2016, 08:24:03 PM
I want it to be another person so badly it hurts. I mean, wouldn't that be a neat discovery to bring back to the known world? A whole colony of other people, previously lost! Because it couldn't just be like one person, or else we'd have to end up with another cast member, and we already have all our main cast members, right? Oooh, the suspense!/me tries to hide evil grin
…Unless, of course, the colony survives by killing any outsiders that stumble upon them, possibly eating them as well...
Post by: Athena on July 15, 2016, 10:02:45 PM
/me tries to hide evil grin
…Unless, of course, the colony survives by killing any outsiders that stumble upon them, possibly eating them as well...
Ooh, yesss..... >:D As much as I want that to happen I think cannibalism is too dark a subject for a "light-hearted story of friendship and camaraderie" :P
Post by: Tr on July 15, 2016, 11:25:08 PM
Ooh, yesss..... >:D As much as I want that to happen I think cannibalism is too dark a subject for a "light-hearted story of friendship and camaraderie" :PSo, just killing them then? Minna did hint at darker times to come... (https://mobile.twitter.com/SSSScomic/status/751738871428374528)
*evil grin*
Post by: Eris on July 16, 2016, 10:58:58 AM
So, just killing them then? Minna did hint at darker times to come... (https://mobile.twitter.com/SSSScomic/status/751738871428374528)Everything will be made of gumdrops, lollipops, and spun sugar! O_O
*evil grin*
Post by: Miriam on July 16, 2016, 11:02:21 AM
Everything will be made of gumdrops, lollipops, and spun sugar! O_O
Yes, yes, this is what I need to hear! They will eat candy, not each other.
Post by: rundrewrun on July 16, 2016, 11:34:33 PM
Post by: Tr on July 16, 2016, 11:48:00 PM
Maybe the person will attempt to convert them to Christianity, I wonder who other than Reynir would take the opportunity...Sigrun: NO
Mikkel: *skepticism intensifies*
Lalli: *shrug* *wanders away*
I'm thinking either Tuuri or Emil.
Post by: Vafhudr on July 16, 2016, 11:57:33 PM
I want it to be another person so badly it hurts. I mean, wouldn't that be a neat discovery to bring back to the known world? A whole colony of other people, previously lost! Because it couldn't just be like one person, or else we'd have to end up with another cast member, and we already have all our main cast members, right? Oooh, the suspense!
Or perhaps it will be a troll.
Someone transformed, but whose soul is trapped and continues to be linked to the Dreaming.
Post by: Athena on July 17, 2016, 01:48:50 AM
Or perhaps it will be a troll.
Someone transformed, but whose soul is trapped and continues to be linked to the Dreaming.
or... KADE!! Seriously I want a mage battle so badly now!!
Post by: Juniper on July 17, 2016, 09:26:16 AM
or... KADE!! Seriously I want a mage battle so badly now!!*slams fist on table* MAGE FIGHT ! MAGE FIGHT !
Post by: Lazy8 on July 17, 2016, 09:30:08 AM
Or perhaps it will be a troll.
Someone transformed, but whose soul is trapped and continues to be linked to the Dreaming.
...I read that before I saw the quote you were responding to, and read it as "troll gets converted to Christianity." ;D
Post by: Vafhudr on July 17, 2016, 10:57:05 AM
The two glimpses of the dream place was 1) an empty church painted in cool and dark shades; 2) featuring broken glasswork, suggesting abandonment.
So either it's an old piece of the dreaming, or it's from someone who still remembers christianity - and for that to be the case they had to be either alive at the time of illness, or they have to belong to a group that still believes in it.
Either way, whoever it is behind this chunk of dream, I think they will be an antagonist - and that indeed, we may very well get a mage fight.
Post by: Yuuago on July 17, 2016, 11:05:53 AM
*slams fist on table* MAGE FIGHT ! MAGE FIGHT !
Yesssss do want. *_*
(I dunno if it'll happen in this particular incident, something tells me probably not, but still, DO WANT.)
Post by: Tr on July 17, 2016, 12:42:21 PM
Either way, whoever it is behind this chunk of dream, I think they will be an antagonist - and that indeed, we may very well get a mage fight.(http://i.imgur.com/QDGT0mh.png)
Awesome!
Post by: BlueSkyVail on July 17, 2016, 05:28:27 PM
*slams fist on table* MAGE FIGHT ! MAGE FIGHT !
MAGE FIGHT! MAGE FIGHT!
Oh my goodness, I want to see this so badly.
Post by: Windfighter on July 17, 2016, 05:48:50 PM
*slams fist on table* MAGE FIGHT ! MAGE FIGHT !MAGE FIGHT! MAGE FIGHT!
Oh my goodness, I want to see this so badly.
Let me present to you people
Mage Fight (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=326)
Post by: BlueSkyVail on July 17, 2016, 05:57:40 PM
Let me present to you people
Mage Fight (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=326)
But we need another mage fight! We need all the mage fights!
Seriously though, the concept of combat in the dream world is just so interesting because they aren't as bound by the constructs of reality. Maybe that's why I get so excited about them.
Post by: Tr on July 17, 2016, 06:20:31 PM
But we need another mage fight! We need all the mage fights!Yesss. So many things could happen. Oh, and there's the possibility that if a mage dies in the dreamworld, they die in real life. And also a mage fight would give us the chance to see an experienced mage in action!
Seriously though, the concept of combat in the dream world is just so interesting because they aren't as bound by the constructs of reality. Maybe that's why I get so excited about them.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 11:28:53 AM
Post by: urbicande on July 18, 2016, 11:35:21 AM
I've said this on Disqus a couple times already, but it seems a bit much to be believed that Reynir wouldn't have even the slightest idea what Christianity or a church is no matter how thoroughly and sincerely Iceland went pagan. I'm hoping his question in today's comic is more about what a church is doing in the dream world instead of what a church is. :P
I'm not convinced he wouldn't have an idea. He seems to be from a pretty rural area and hasn't traveled much (if at all). I suspect that most standing churches in the countryside would be repurposed or cannibalized for building materials. (If he was from Reykjavík then I'd be astonished if he didn't know what a church was, though.)
I'm not sure how long an unmaintained wooden structure would last in Iceland's environment.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 11:40:18 AM
Post by: Yuuago on July 18, 2016, 11:43:40 AM
The Christians of Iceland never forgot the country was once pagan, so I don't see why they would so suddenly forget 1,000 years of Christianity. I wouldn't expect Reynir to spout lines from Luther's Catechism, but surely he could see a cross and think "Oh yeah, that Jesus guy." I'm just a little credulous about this turn in the plot is all.
Well... Reynir barely seems to know much about his own religion; in that light, it wouldn't be that surprising if he was kind of clueless about someone else's.
Post by: urbicande on July 18, 2016, 11:45:23 AM
The Christians of Iceland never forgot the country was once pagan, so I don't see why they would so suddenly forget 1,000 years of Christianity. I wouldn't expect Reynir to spout lines from Luther's Catechism, but surely he could see a cross and think "Oh yeah, that Jesus guy." I'm just a little credulous about this turn in the plot is all.
Reynir is really pretty sheltered and young, though.
I wouldn't expect all Icelanders to be so clueless
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 12:02:33 PM
Post by: Piney on July 18, 2016, 12:39:44 PM
I've said this on Disqus a couple times already, but it seems a bit much to be believed that Reynir wouldn't have even the slightest idea what Christianity or a church is no matter how thoroughly and sincerely Iceland went pagan. I'm hoping his question in today's comic is more about what a church is doing in the dream world instead of what a church is. :P
I feel like he wouldn't have called it a "house" if he knew what a church was.
Post by: Yuuago on July 18, 2016, 12:41:58 PM
I feel like he wouldn't have called it a "house" if he knew what a church was.
...Man, I didn't even catch that, but you're right, he does call it a house* (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=561). Interesting. :Va Which suggests that not only does he not know it's a church, but he doesn't really recognize it as any kind of place of worship/religious building/whatever.
Post by: Aierdome on July 18, 2016, 12:43:54 PM
One think I'd note is that distances don't seem to matter all that much in dreamspace - Reynir certainly wouldn't be sleeping long enough to get to Mora and back with Onni. For all we know, the owner of dreamchurch could be somewhere in Poland or southern Germany.
Post by: urbicande on July 18, 2016, 01:05:49 PM
Maaaaaybe? I suppose it's not impossible that he's never heard a Christmas carol or heard someone says "Jesus!" after stubbing his toe?
Do they say that in Iceland? (TBH, I don't know that I've ever heard anyone say "Jesus!" after any kind of injury -- usually it's some form of "F**k!")
As far as Christmas carols? Well, I was subjected to them all though elementary school and junior high and still have to listen to the things today whether I want to or not (and I generally don't). And as a non-Christian child, it certainly didn't strike me that there was some religious element to most of them (also, I think I was a teen before I knew what a manger was). They're often just songs about some random baby.
Post by: JoB on July 18, 2016, 01:20:12 PM
I'm not sure how long an unmaintained wooden structure would last in Iceland's environment.That outside view in the first panel proves this one to have stone walls, though. Wasn't there a Disqussion about that lately, the result being that stone churches weren't the majority in the Nordics, yet numerous enough to play a role in a hypothetical post-apocalyptic "d'ya remember?" scenario?
I think if Iceland went honestly, thoroughly pagan [...] it's likely that even Icelanders in Reykjavik don't know what a church is.Sorry, no. They mightn't have the slightest what a Christian church would look like, but the concept of buildings of worship is present in candidates (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31437973) for Icelandic Y90 cults as well.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 01:27:51 PM
At any rate, I rather doubt the plot rests on that possibility to any great degree, and it will probably be passed over soon enough. Reynir's ignorance could be a simple instance of wedging in a little exposition.
Post by: Laufey on July 18, 2016, 02:05:52 PM
Maaaaaybe? I suppose it's not impossible that he's never heard a Christmas carol or heard someone says "Jesus!" after stubbing his toe?
Icelandic Yule songs are often about eating, candles, eating candles if you're one specific troll, more trolls, troll momma Grýla being DEAD YAY!!!, a horrible cat monster prowling around eating every person who doesn't receive at least one item of clothing as a present and so forth. And nobody here says "Jesus" after stubbing their toe (but they might say any of the many names of the devil instead).
That said, I'm inclined to believe Reynir's just particularly sheltered and clueless if he really doesn't know even about his own religion, like someone pointed out.
As for general knowledge, Y90 people do in fact know what churches were and have an inkling of how they were supposed to look like (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=91) so I'd find it more curious is Onni doesn't recognize one. With Reynir I can believe his parents kept the world hidden from him as well as they could so he'd never leave the safety of his home.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 02:13:20 PM
Post by: JoB on July 18, 2016, 02:17:49 PM
I personally find it more credible that Minna is simply playing the time-honored Exposition Card by finding an excuse to have the characters discuss something mainly for the benefit of the audience. ;)Possible, but that would make it even more of a requirement that Christianity is a long-term plot point, seeing that it gets notable exposition before the "standard" cults of the Known World.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 02:22:58 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on July 18, 2016, 02:44:04 PM
Icelandic Yule songs are often about eating, candles, eating candles if you're one specific troll, more trolls, troll momma Grýla being DEAD YAY!!!, a horrible cat monster prowling around eating every person who doesn't receive at least one item of clothing as a present and so forth. And nobody here says "Jesus" after stubbing their toe (but they might say any of the many names of the devil instead).
That said, I'm inclined to believe Reynir's just particularly sheltered and clueless if he really doesn't know even about his own religion, like someone pointed out.
As for general knowledge, Y90 people do in fact know what churches were and have an inkling of how they were supposed to look like (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=91) so I'd find it more curious is Onni doesn't recognize one. With Reynir I can believe his parents kept the world hidden from him as well as they could so he'd never leave the safety of his home.
Well, Taru knows the word church, but when pressed she says it's "a big house of some kind." So I would say that the evidence ponts more in the direction of people in Y90 not knowing what a church is, particularly among the younger generation. Tuuri didn't even know the word, and while she's lived in pretty remote areas, she's also a fairly well-educated person, and curious about the past. If it was general knowledge, she would probably have it.
Post by: |Yucca| on July 18, 2016, 02:45:25 PM
As for general knowledge, Y90 people do in fact know what churches were and have an inkling of how they were supposed to look like (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=91) so I'd find it more curious is Onni doesn't recognize one. With Reynir I can believe his parents kept the world hidden from him as well as they could so he'd never leave the safety of his home.
Well, Taru knows the word church, but when pressed she says it's "a big house of some kind." So I would say that the evidence ponts more in the direction of people in Y90 not knowing what a church is, particularly among the younger generation. Tuuri didn't even know the word, and while she's lived in pretty remote areas, she's also a fairly well-educated person, and curious about the past. If it was general knowledge, she would probably have it.
The old church of Keuruu (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=386) was still standing a few years before the main storyline, so Taru and Onni should definitely know what a church is. It wouldn't make sense for them not to know the former use of such a distinctive building.
Post by: Minutia_R on July 18, 2016, 02:52:58 PM
The old church of Keuruu (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=386) was still standing a few years before the main storyline, so Taru and Onni should definitely know what a church is. It wouldn't make sense for them not to know the former use of such a distinctive building.
It also doesn't make much sense for Taru not to have told Tuuri what a church was if she did know, though.
Post by: Aierdome on July 18, 2016, 02:58:38 PM
Sorry, no. They mightn't have the slightest what a Christian church would look like, but the concept of buildings of worship is present in candidates (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31437973) for Icelandic Y90 cults as well.
Ah. My mistake, then. Thanks!
The old church of Keuruu (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=386) was still standing a few years before the main storyline, so Taru and Onni should definitely know what a church is. It wouldn't make sense for them not to know the former use of such a distinctive building.
Why not? If it was remade into something like a watchtower, garrison or storage space, with windows bricked over, there's no reason they'd know it to be a place of worship.
Actually, Onni didn't say anything on topic of the church yet. For all we know, he could know what he's standing in and is silent because he's still annoyed with Reynir pushing him out of his comfort zone, or is simply waiting for Reynir to ask the question.
Post by: Juniper on July 18, 2016, 03:03:16 PM
Post by: Windfighter on July 18, 2016, 03:07:24 PM
As for general knowledge, Y90 people do in fact know what churches were and have an inkling of how they were supposed to look like (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=91) so I'd find it more curious is Onni doesn't recognize one. With Reynir I can believe his parents kept the world hidden from him as well as they could so he'd never leave the safety of his home.Well, Taru knows the word church, but when pressed she says it's "a big house of some kind." So I would say that the evidence ponts more in the direction of people in Y90 not knowing what a church is, particularly among the younger generation. Tuuri didn't even know the word, and while she's lived in pretty remote areas, she's also a fairly well-educated person, and curious about the past. If it was general knowledge, she would probably have it.
Actaully, Tuuri (from what I see at least) isn't asking what a church is, she's asking what that other building they're passing is, to which Taru answers "A... big house. Of some kind." so I think both of them know what a church is. On the other hand the building they're calling a church... I think it looks more like a factory, so they probably don't know churches all that well xD
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 03:07:59 PM
Post by: Helia on July 18, 2016, 03:10:28 PM
As for the steeple in the background of that page, I could be totally wrong but my impression of it was that it was just a generic bell tower without necessarily being part of a church like a lot of older universities seem to have. Or at least maybe it was once part of a church but now it's just being used as only a bell tower. Then again the more I think about it I don't know if that totally makes sense, sure they could use it as a warning system but I'm sure they still have sirens in Finland in Y90. Or maybe it's just used to announce the time like a lot of today's bell towers.
That church in the background in Keuruu is an existing church (http://www.vanhakeuruu.fi/en/2012-08-30-11-53-38/keuruu-old-chruch-1758).
Post by: urbicande on July 18, 2016, 03:22:30 PM
The old church of Keuruu (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=386) was still standing a few years before the main storyline, so Taru and Onni should definitely know what a church is. It wouldn't make sense for them not to know the former use of such a distinctive building.
Really? I don't know most of the former uses of most of the buildings around here, distinctive or not.
(Also, Taru and Onni are Finns, not Icelandic, so even if Onni knows, he hasn't yet told Reynir)
Post by: Laufey on July 18, 2016, 03:28:09 PM
The main basis of my incredulity is that even the most uneducated Norse Christian knew what paganism was after centuries of Christianity, so I don't see why a Y90 pagan wouldn't at least know about Christianity and have a vague idea of what its symbols looked like.
Not quite correct. Most Norse Christians of the past thought they knew what paganism was like though: evil, sinful, wrong, occasionally deserving of death... while continuing its traditions. A Norse Christian would perform some pagan rites without considering the act pagan at all, or themselves a pagan for that matter. Priests of course would firmly disagree.
As for symbols it doesn't take long for a symbol to change its meaning, just look at what happened to the swastika during WW2.
Which would be less of an issue if Christianity just wasn't an issue in the story line. That's my reason for assuming that it won't end up being a big part of the plot. The more Christianity is made a part of the main plot, the more this ignorance cries to be explained—and really, is that the story we want to hear? Is that the story Minna has been building up to?
The first question can only be answered for one's own self, but personally I would very much want to hear that particular story. I find all the religious aspects of SSSS its drawing point and it feels good to see one's own group (in my case Fennopagans) represented in a realistic, serious and well researched manner. As for the latter question... we'll have to wait and see, but my experience with Minna is that she'll always surprise the reader somehow. :D
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 03:30:33 PM
(http://www.gibsonsothebysrealty.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/church-1024x614.jpg)
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 03:38:40 PM
Not quite correct. Most Norse Christians of the past thought they knew what paganism was like though: evil, sinful, wrong, occasionally deserving of death... while continuing its traditions. A Norse Christian would perform some pagan rites without considering the act pagan at all, or themselves a pagan for that matter. Priests of course would firmly disagree.
That's rather different. Norse Christians had a distorted idea of what paganism was, but they still knew that it existed. They didn't see Thor's hammer or Odin's raven and look terribly confused. It would make far more sense if Reynir was merely unfamiliar with the content of Christianity rather than being (apparently) completely surprised by its existence.
Once again, it's not impossible. It's just that there is a story there depending on where the plot is going.
Quote
The first question can only be answered for one's own self, but personally I would very much want to hear that particular story. I find all the religious aspects of SSSS its drawing point and it feels good to see one's own group (in my case Fennopagans) represented in a realistic, serious and well researched manner. As for the latter question... we'll have to wait and see, but my experience with Minna is that she'll always surprise the reader somehow.
Well, it's been billed as a light-hearted adventure rather than an account of the existential battle between Christianity and paganism. I would just be surprised if the story went that was is all.
Post by: |Yucca| on July 18, 2016, 04:23:14 PM
Really? I don't know most of the former uses of most of the buildings around here, distinctive or not.
(Also, Taru and Onni are Finns, not Icelandic, so even if Onni knows, he hasn't yet told Reynir)
Maybe it's just my profession taking over, but like ChazHoosier said it's quite easy to tell the former (or current if unchanged) use of a building by its architectural style. Also, we have seen that the Finns have a working National Archive with different research branches (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=46), no need to assume they aren't also interested in built environment and its history.
It also doesn't make much sense for Taru not to have told Tuuri what a church was if she did know, though.
Like Windfighter said, I read their discussion being about different buildings in each panel. After all, the scenery is vastly different from panel to panel. The concept of a church seems to be clear for both of them at least to some extent.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 18, 2016, 04:27:18 PM
Post by: Róisín on July 18, 2016, 05:29:47 PM
Also, as Laufey said, it's good to see some of the pagan faiths represented. There have been some interesting discussions on the subject in the mini church thread.
And thanks, everybody, for being courteous in the debate!
Post by: JoB on July 18, 2016, 05:50:12 PM
On the other hand the building they're calling a church... I think it looks more like a factory, so they probably don't know churches all that well xDIt is a(n existing) factory. Minna commented (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=91#comment-1335508623) that she changed it to have two chimneys to make it more obvious that it is not what Taru calls it.
Post by: Vafhudr on July 18, 2016, 10:46:23 PM
Post by: Eris on July 18, 2016, 10:59:49 PM
I swear the dream church looked hella more gloomy last time we saw it.It was certainly darker! Are there day and night in dream space? If so, what causes one or the other? I wonder.
Post by: Minutia_R on July 19, 2016, 12:21:51 PM
Well, Taru knows the word church, but when pressed she says it's "a big house of some kind." So I would say that the evidence ponts more in the direction of people in Y90 not knowing what a church is, particularly among the younger generation. Tuuri didn't even know the word, and while she's lived in pretty remote areas, she's also a fairly well-educated person, and curious about the past. If it was general knowledge, she would probably have it.
Actaully, Tuuri (from what I see at least) isn't asking what a church is, she's asking what that other building they're passing is, to which Taru answers "A... big house. Of some kind." so I think both of them know what a church is. On the other hand the building they're calling a church... I think it looks more like a factory, so they probably don't know churches all that well xD
Huh, you're ... probably right. That is really not how I read that page the first three or four times I saw it, though. Weird.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 19, 2016, 03:13:43 PM
I wonder if Christianity in Iceland has been somewhat suppressed because the return of magic brought with it an awareness that the pagan gods were incontrovertibly real, whereas there was no such proof for Christianity?
That's been my assumption—something about the illness brought magic back into the world, and Lutheran pastors didn't have anything to show for it. It's what happened in Redtail's Dream. Surely most people in the very least remember grandma singing Christmas carols, though!
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 19, 2016, 03:15:15 PM
I swear the dream church looked hella more gloomy last time we saw it.
Every church is super creepy when you're alone in it during the night!
Post by: Aierdome on July 20, 2016, 04:08:08 AM
Post by: Róisín on July 20, 2016, 04:56:04 AM
Post by: Minutia_R on July 20, 2016, 05:08:56 AM
Post by: Miriam on July 20, 2016, 06:36:24 AM
Is ... Onni ... smiling in the second panel?
Yaaas he is smiling
(http://i.imgur.com/lTXm7yF.png)
Eeeeeeee
Reynir and him get along better and better, he's not even annoyed any more and enjoys talking with Reynir!
Post by: JoB on July 20, 2016, 07:00:35 AM
Now, anybody willing to guess what is it that he's seen? I'm betting on the broken window from his previous vision of the church.From the place's layout, Reynir should be looking at the (closed) door in the background of panel five, or maybe the window next to it. I guess that Onni would have noticed if it had suddenly opened, so Reynir should either be genuinely going "I wonder what's behind that door?", or have seen something outside through the window.
(And then there's the well-known relationship between Minna and architectural continuity that would allow for Reynir to walk up to a humongous mural on the next page and start deciphering the scene shown on it.)
Post by: urbicande on July 20, 2016, 09:37:14 AM
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 20, 2016, 09:42:07 AM
Post by: Juniper on July 20, 2016, 11:04:11 AM
Is ... Onni ... smiling in the second panel?
But when you go to the main page the preview for today's page is him smiling like I actually let out a small gasp when I saw in the page preview Onni smiling ?!?
Post by: Miriam on July 20, 2016, 12:07:27 PM
But when you go to the main page the preview for today's page is him smiling like I actually let out a small gasp when I saw in the page preview Onni smiling ?!?
Small???
You should have heard my gasp...
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 20, 2016, 05:12:11 PM
Svaneke Kirke, Bornholm
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Svaneke_kirke_skibet.jpg/800px-Svaneke_kirke_skibet.jpg)
Christiansø Kirke, Bornholm
(https://tegl-erfa.dk/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/billedermedtekst/IMG_8431.JPG)
Post by: urbicande on July 20, 2016, 05:37:56 PM
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 20, 2016, 06:07:13 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on July 20, 2016, 09:55:57 PM
But I don't recall seeing Mikkel asleep before this sequence.
And I don't think you need to be a mage for this. I am pretty sure everyone can dream and that everyone has a homebase/sanctuary. Mages are different insofar that they can willingly move to and fro in the dream.
Post by: Keeper on July 20, 2016, 10:02:57 PM
"And if you had shown Mikkel the cross he would have been able to tell you, but you had to grab the unrecognisable thing you trashed."
So Mikkel at least knows something about Christianity and its symbols, possibly more that Onni?
Post by: Juniper on July 20, 2016, 10:04:20 PM
Hm. Mikkel might be Christian. After all, one of the features of the danes in the comic is to be stubborn and clinging to history and old ways.
But I don't recall seeing Mikkel asleep before this sequence.
And I don't think you need to be a mage for this. I am pretty sure everyone can dream and that everyone has a homebase/sanctuary. Mages are different insofar that they can willingly move to and fro in the dream.
Well, we saw that Lalli's haven was still there even when he's awake, just empty. So even if Mikkel was awake when Reynir fell asleep it could still be there.
Post by: Róisín on July 20, 2016, 10:04:54 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on July 20, 2016, 10:11:36 PM
I just remembered- when Reynir broke the framed picture with the crosses, Minna said:
"And if you had shown Mikkel the cross he would have been able to tell you, but you had to grab the unrecognisable thing you trashed."
So Mikkel at least knows something about Christianity and its symbols, possibly more that Onni?
But he might also only know about it. Premium and emphasis on history and all that.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 20, 2016, 10:21:41 PM
Of course, this is all a lot of very distant guessing about this dream church that almost certainly isn't anywhere near the mark. ;)
Post by: JoB on July 21, 2016, 12:46:27 PM
Yeah, that was my understanding: that everyone has a dream space, but mostly only the mages can be active and conscious in them while their body sleeps, and can intentionally go outside them into the broader Dreamworld.Then why would Reynir chance onto the haven of the fellow mage first, a distant mage's next, and now only a third, instead of finding the havens of the five other team members near his own in rather quick succession?
(ETA: And why wouldn't Onni suggest that Reynir should ask the non-mage team members about the one that has him so puzzled now? If non-mages have havens as well, it would be kinda unavoidable that the mages know about that.)
Post by: urbicande on July 21, 2016, 12:51:49 PM
Then why would Reynir chance onto the haven of the fellow mage first, a distant mage's next, and now only a third, instead of finding the havens of the five other team members near his own in rather quick succession?
(ETA: And why wouldn't Onni suggest that Reynir should ask the non-mage team members about the one that has him so puzzled now? If non-mages have havens as well, it would be kinda unavoidable that the mages know about that.)
Distances in the Dreamworld aren't necessarily related to ones in the real world. It might have to do with closeness or emotional connection. Onni and Lalli really aren't very close emotionally (or so it appears) and their havens are quite a distance from each other. Reynir, on the other hand, probably feels close to everyone.
Post by: Miriam on July 21, 2016, 01:13:21 PM
Distances in the Dreamworld aren't necessarily related to ones in the real world. It might have to do with closeness or emotional connection. Onni and Lalli really aren't very close emotionally (or so it appears) and their havens are quite a distance from each other. Reynir, on the other hand, probably feels close to everyone.
I do think that distances in the dreamworld are somewhat related to ones in the real world. That was why Lalli met Reynir in the dreamworld before they did in the material world: Reynir was physically getting closer to the crew. It's also why Lalli and Onni had trouble reaching each other, they were far away in the material world. Onni told Tuuri over the radio they were having some difficulties, which she hadn't expected because back in Finland it went more easily.
If everyone (not just mages) has a haven of their own, then I wonder if Lalli has visited Emil's haven... Or will visit.
Post by: kjeks on July 21, 2016, 02:07:14 PM
Post by: urbicande on July 21, 2016, 02:12:13 PM
I do think that distances in the dreamworld are somewhat related to ones in the real world. That was why Lalli met Reynir in the dreamworld before they did in the material world: Reynir was physically getting closer to the crew. It's also why Lalli and Onni had trouble reaching each other, they were far away in the material world. Onni told Tuuri over the radio they were having some difficulties, which she hadn't expected because back in Finland it went more easily.
If everyone (not just mages) has a haven of their own, then I wonder if Lalli has visited Emil's haven... Or will visit.
Other Havens may be so small or unnoticed because they're just part of the "landscape". If this one was, for example, Mikkel's, it might be noticeable because they're actually in Denmark and Mikkel has an emotional attachment to the place that brings it forward.
(I don't think it's actually Mikkel's, by the way)
Post by: Róisín on July 21, 2016, 08:07:58 PM
*Edit: my take on the accessibility of havens is that physical distance and emotional closeness might both be factors.
Post by: Minutia_R on July 22, 2016, 04:41:43 AM
(Incidentally, this is somewhat off-topic but if we are talking about fanfic with Lalli finding Emil's haven, I have to put in a good word for Rusakko's http://archiveofourown.org/works/6331483 (http://archiveofourown.org/works/6331483), which is my favorite take on this scenario; it's so beautifully-written and bittersweet.)
Post by: Róisín on July 22, 2016, 05:48:48 AM
Post by: Miriam on July 22, 2016, 06:57:34 AM
So when Onni first met Reynir, he attacked him because he took him for a hostile spirit. He seems to be taking the newcomer for the same sort of thing ... and my guess would be he's right this time. It's nice that he's gone from attacking Reynir to defending him, although the end result is still Reynir getting yanked around and being very confused, poor puppy.
(Incidentally, this is somewhat off-topic but if we are talking about fanfic with Lalli finding Emil's haven, I have to put in a good word for Rusakko's http://archiveofourown.org/works/6331483 (http://archiveofourown.org/works/6331483), which is my favorite take on this scenario; it's so beautifully-written and bittersweet.)
Oh, that's a beautiful fanfic! Thanks for sharing.
And it's nice that Onni now defends Reynir. Onni cares about him :D.
(or maybe he just wants to protect the mage who could defend his sister.)
Post by: Minutia_R on July 22, 2016, 07:31:17 AM
Oh, that's a beautiful fanfic! Thanks for sharing.
And it's nice that Onni now defends Reynir. Onni cares about him :D.
(or maybe he just wants to protect the mage who could defend his sister.)
I do think that beneath the grumpiness and scarediness, Onni has a very strong core of wanting/needing to protect people. He would probably even do it for a stranger--but I also think he does care about Reynir to some degree at this point.
(And it was no trouble! I KNOW RIGHT, ISN'T IT GREAT.)
Post by: urbicande on July 22, 2016, 09:31:08 AM
So when Onni first met Reynir, he attacked him because he took him for a hostile spirit. He seems to be taking the newcomer for the same sort of thing ... and my guess would be he's right this time. It's nice that he's gone from attacking Reynir to defending him, although the end result is still Reynir getting yanked around and being very confused, poor puppy.
It made sense in Onni's case, because Reynir was in Onni's space. And here it's like Onni and Reynir have invaded someone else's space, someone who clearly serves one of the old world gods -- gods who failed to protect the world from the Illness (unlike the Norse and Finnish gods)
Post by: Vafhudr on July 22, 2016, 10:06:34 AM
I mean, there is always the possibility that people wear old fashion clothing in the post-rash Denmark, but I can't tell.
Post by: urbicande on July 22, 2016, 10:49:09 AM
So uh - a question for those who might know - is that a contemporary garb that the spirit/person/? is wearing? It looks very antiquated. Like something from the 17th century. But perhaps some denominations in Denmark use such outfit.
I mean, there is always the possibility that people wear old fashion clothing in the post-rash Denmark, but I can't tell.
Google image search for Lutheran pastor Denmark shows that to be a Y0 outfit.
Post by: Juniper on July 22, 2016, 11:26:48 AM
So when Onni first met Reynir, he attacked him because he took him for a hostile spirit. He seems to be taking the newcomer for the same sort of thing ... and my guess would be he's right this time. It's nice that he's gone from attacking Reynir to defending him, although the end result is still Reynir getting yanked around and being very confused, poor puppy.
I guess yeah, based on Onni's reaction in chapter seven we can safely assume spirits take the form of people sometimes to sneak up on ya. Given that this lady's face something about it just, feels kind of unnatural and is creeping me out a bit, that might be what's going on ?
I know there's quite a few peole in the comments speculating that it's either Grandma Hotakainen, the infamous "it" or maybe both. There's a few reasons I guess why it wouldn't especially be Grandma because why would she be dressed like that and in a church but at the same time, maybe ? Or maybe I just want it to be one of those two things (or both!) so we can finally get some back story on the Hotakainens :P
Post by: Tr on July 22, 2016, 01:20:22 PM
I guess yeah, based on Onni's reaction in chapter seven we can safely assume spirits take the form of people sometimes to sneak up on ya. Given that this lady's face something about it just, feels kind of unnatural and is creeping me out a bit, that might be what's going on ?I don't think it's Grandma Hotakainen (though I do want as much Hotakainen backstory as possible) but the spirit thing is pretty plausible. Seriously though, this lady is creeping me out... :o Something about the way her face looks, or how most of it is in shadow...
I know there's quite a few peole in the comments speculating that it's either Grandma Hotakainen, the infamous "it" or maybe both. There's a few reasons I guess why it wouldn't especially be Grandma because why would she be dressed like that and in a church but at the same time, maybe ? Or maybe I just want it to be one of those two things (or both!) so we can finally get some back story on the Hotakainens :P
At the same time, new person/thing! This is exciting!
Post by: urbicande on July 22, 2016, 02:21:55 PM
I don't think it's Grandma Hotakainen (though I do want as much Hotakainen backstory as possible) but the spirit thing is pretty plausible. Seriously though, this lady is creeping me out... :o Something about the way her face looks, or how most of it is in shadow...
At the same time, new person/thing! This is exciting!
I don't think it's Grandma because the clothes are wrong for a Finn (even if she had been a pastor at some point, which is doubtful).
So far, Dreamworld avatars are similar to their real-life counterparts. So I'm going assume that this is the haven of an actual Danish Lutheran pastor with at least some innate mage ability and I'm further going to assume that she's dressed in Y0 clothes because she's FROM Y0, and Onni recognizes that as well.
How could someone who was her age be alive still in Y90? Well...those afflicted with the Illness don't appear to age; they live their horrible realworld lives until they get killed, or freeze-dry (or get touched by Murderghost). So posit that she's one of the afflicted, and she retains either enough consciousness OR was able to send her mind off to the Dreamworld.
If she's one of the afflicted, she may still be contagious in the Dreamworld, at least for Reynir, who's not-immune (and let's remember that the Illness has to have some magic as part of it).
At least, that's my theory until Monday.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 22, 2016, 11:21:32 PM
Post by: pinkie on July 23, 2016, 01:18:19 AM
Or is a spirit just the part of your consciousness that goes to the dreamworld?
Post by: Solokov on July 23, 2016, 02:49:20 AM
Considering how off the rails the expedition has gone, and the hints that they're going to go much further than anyone expected.... my call is:
The... I'm going to call it AE, (Anomalous entity), the AE is actually a someone, particularly a living someone, and quite possibly living in a commune of Christians off in the wilderness of the silent world and we may be about (obviously after a chapter break) to see a clash of cultures take place.
For starters I have (and I think others did too) theorized that a christian community after Y0 would most likely consider mages to be priests/miracle workers.
I'd also say, despite the uncanny valleyness of the face, there's not a lot of evidence of it being a spirit, or at the very least someone from y0-1 (I may end up eating these words next weekend), as we've seen previously the older spirits don't seem to retain their form, or manner of dress over the time.
However, if my theory holds water, the crew may be bringing just about a wall of terror and death in the form of the daisychain of spirits following along.
Post by: kjeks on July 23, 2016, 07:14:38 AM
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 23, 2016, 09:32:23 AM
Not that I have any idea what's about to happen. We just know that someone there wants help from Reynir's previous dream. Maybe she's an especially devout ghost who needs to be encouraged to give up waiting for the Lord to return so she can leave the land of the living behind.
Post by: Tr on July 23, 2016, 09:59:17 AM
For myself, I don't find that woman to look at all unusual. Perhaps overly serious—but not super-naturally so. If she is a mage from some Christian community, any Christianity that has watched God smite the earth with such a plague must be much more intense and solemn than what one gets in bourgeois State Lutheranism today.Hmmm, I am definitely willing to admit that I'm just being paranoid when I say there's something weird about her face, and that Onni is also being overly paranoid.
Not that I have any idea what's about to happen. We just know that someone there wants help from Reynir's previous dream. Maybe she's an especially devout ghost who needs to be encouraged to give up waiting for the Lord to return so she can leave the land of the living behind.
Then again, perhaps the other spirits did not retain their forms/clothing because they had been corrupted with despair for the last 90-ish years and had slowly gone insane. Perhaps if a spirit had been given a proper burial and had been mourned by their relatives and whatnot, it could keep its sanity and appearance. It makes sense that spirits could look and dress like humans, given Onni's reaction when he first met Reynir.
I have no actual theories as to what will happen, though. The best I can do is wait impatiently for Monday. ^-^
Post by: JoB on July 23, 2016, 10:05:18 AM
The best I can do is wait impatiently for Monday. ^-^You don't want to find out what that Christian preacher lady did to Onni and Reynir during the preceding Sunday. :P
Post by: urbicande on July 23, 2016, 11:43:41 AM
You don't want to find out what that Christian preacher lady did to Onni and Reynir during the preceding Sunday. :P
Well...MAYBE she's good at sermons.
(Do they do those over there?)
Post by: Solokov on July 23, 2016, 12:24:08 PM
Well...MAYBE she's good at sermons.
(Do they do those over there?)
Some very catchy ones in fact, Sin and hellfire. One even had lepers.
Post by: urbicande on July 23, 2016, 12:32:24 PM
Some very catchy ones in fact, Sin and hellfire. One even had lepers.
So THAT'S what Onni is protecting Reynir from!
Post by: Juniper on July 23, 2016, 04:07:08 PM
So ah, I tried to post this yesterday but kept on either accidentally clicking on and posting in the wrong thread or when trying to adjust the image size accidentlly clicking "post" instead of "preview" so I'd just post these weird stretched out screen caps out of context so I eventually gave up ;_;
Anywayyy here's side by side comparison in relation to the latest page number two, "Reynir gets physically yanked out of the way of danger while someone puts up an arm to block him from said danger" edition !!
people on tumblr seem to like this one at least dang I think this is the most notes I've ever gotten on anything SSSS related
Post by: kjeks on July 24, 2016, 03:56:33 AM
people on tumblr seem to like this one at least dang I think this is the most notes I've ever gotten on anything SSSS related
That might be because you made a brilliant comparison there ;)
Amazing how the colour style influences the mood while looking at the pictures.
Post by: Miriam on July 25, 2016, 06:36:52 AM
I wonder why exactly Onni thinks it's needed. Does he think the priest-mage has dangerous magic coming from her eyes?
Post by: Róisín on July 25, 2016, 06:43:12 AM
Post by: urbicande on July 25, 2016, 10:01:26 AM
I have the feeling Onni and Reynir don't have to put their hands in front of their eyes...
I wonder why exactly Onni thinks it's needed. Does he think the priest-mage has dangerous magic coming from her eyes?
She's wearing those glasses because she's really Cyclops from X-Men.
Post by: Miriam on July 25, 2016, 10:41:10 AM
A lot of our-world traditions of magic have the concept that some dangerous creatures can kill/paralyse/take control of your mind/drive you insane if you make eye contact with them (think the Gorgon Medusa, dragons, the Sphinx and vampires, for a few). Maybe the Minnaverse Dreamworld has the same traditions?
Probably. The priest looks annoyed though, so I don't think it's the case for her. She must be thinking something along the lines of "Kids these days read too much sci-fi".
Post by: pinkie on July 25, 2016, 11:39:06 AM
Post by: Juniper on July 25, 2016, 11:50:37 AM
Probably. The priest looks annoyed though, so I don't think it's the case for her. She must be thinking something along the lines of "Kids these days read too much sci-fi".
I think today's page is super adorable <3 two of our silly little mages standing around covering their eyes much to the confusion of who I'm starting to suspect is just a regular harmless old lady. Well, harmless to them at least. I feel like it's kind of a trope that pretty much in every fantasy or fantasy-esque story old people who practice magic are almost always incredibly powerful due to years of experience.
I think too that maybe people in the dream world manifest in clothing that a holy official / spiritual leader in their respective religion would wear, or at least how someone would dress who in their religion or culture is considered closer to (the) god(s)
I had this feeling before but now I'm really starting to think that someone's dream haven is reflective of somewhere that brings them peace or comfort to be. Kind of makes me wonder what my dream haven would look like . .
Post by: Róisín on July 25, 2016, 12:04:57 PM
*Edit: the thread is called 'Personal Dreamworld' and is in the main board.
Post by: urbicande on July 25, 2016, 12:33:13 PM
I think today's page is super adorable <3 two of our silly little mages standing around covering their eyes much to the confusion of who I'm starting to suspect is just a regular harmless old lady. Well, harmless to them at least. I feel like it's kind of a trope that pretty much in every fantasy or fantasy-esque story old people who practice magic are almost always incredibly powerful due to years of experience.
As with Cohen the Barbarian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rincewind#Cohen_the_Barbarian), you get to an advanced age in a dangerous world because you're very, very good at what you do.
Post by: JoB on July 25, 2016, 12:57:55 PM
She's wearing those glasses because she's really Cyclops from X-Men.Well, having their arms in front of their eyes is going to be really helpful for Onni&Reynir, then.
Post by: Solokov on July 25, 2016, 02:14:13 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on July 25, 2016, 02:17:19 PM
Post by: Aierdome on July 25, 2016, 05:50:42 PM
Post by: urbicande on July 26, 2016, 09:40:48 AM
I admit I'm more with Minutia_R than Solokov on this one. Sure, she looks harmless... but what is she doing here, anyway? And that creepy, uncanny-valley-ish face on the previous page... *brrr*
I'd guess she's here because it's her haven, the same way that Lalli and Onni have theirs. And Reynir...um...he started in a boat with Cthulhund.
Post by: kjeks on July 26, 2016, 10:50:43 AM
Weeeeeell tomorrow will show us hopefully.
Post by: Vafhudr on July 26, 2016, 10:24:56 PM
If this turns out to be an hostile spirit, it won't be without some fakeout. Because right now I see how they can be hostile.
Unless it's a ruse.
But that's a pretty high level ruse for monstrosity that have shown only predator-levels of cunning.
Post by: urbicande on July 27, 2016, 10:07:35 AM
Post by: Solokov on July 27, 2016, 10:35:49 AM
Hell still could be a community with this lady acting as a guardian spirit.
Sticking to this line of thinking only because I don't want to be a cynic about this one.
Post by: Miriam on July 27, 2016, 12:09:04 PM
It's really interesting that she's dead and aware she's dead.
Yes. If the reason she's in the dreamworld is that she's dead, then maybe she isn't necessarily a mage.
Post by: urbicande on July 27, 2016, 12:22:42 PM
Yes. If the reason she's in the dreamworld is that she's dead, then maybe she isn't necessarily a mage.
She wakes up in the dreamworld thinking, "Man, I'm dead tired today"
Post by: Miriam on July 27, 2016, 12:25:54 PM
She wakes up in the dreamworld thinking, "Man, I'm dead tired today"
She woke up and she was dead.
Also. Reynir has his hands at the side of his face. I don't think that has much use, since the priest is in front of them, but it looks funny.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 27, 2016, 08:52:14 PM
Post by: Tr on July 27, 2016, 09:01:15 PM
I really hope we don't dwell on this priest too much. I'd rather just explore a pagan world than talk about the short-comings of Christianity.My personal theory is that she is going to give them some sort of advice/help to deal with the murderghosts. She might end up moving on into the afterlife, but I don't think she'll be a recurring character.
Then again, I have no actual evidence to base this on, this is pure guesswork on my part.
Post by: Lazy8 on July 27, 2016, 09:27:37 PM
I really hope we don't dwell on this priest too much. I'd rather just explore a pagan world than talk about the short-comings of Christianity.
Given the cesspol that a comments section can turn into (and, from the looks of it, unfortunately is turning into) at the merest mention of religion? Completely agree. I was enjoying the pagan universe. I want to know more about the pagan universe. I'm still banking on the murderghosts being Christians who might be helped to remember their past selves via their religion, but I'd really rather not see such a storyline get dragged out.
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 27, 2016, 09:47:37 PM
Post by: Róisín on July 27, 2016, 09:58:41 PM
And I shall do my best to remain courteous and not deepen the cesspool! If we all try to remain civil it should be okay, I hope. For what it's worth, people who wander the internet far more than I do inform me that we are an uncommonly civilised fandom.
Post by: Yuuago on July 27, 2016, 10:54:48 PM
I'm still banking on the murderghosts being Christians who might be helped to remember their past selves via their religion, but I'd really rather not see such a storyline get dragged out.
This is my position on it as well.
I don't think it'll get drawn out, but at this point it's hard to tell precisely where things are going. :Va
Post by: Juniper on July 27, 2016, 11:07:22 PM
This is my position on it as well.
I don't think it'll get drawn out, but at this point it's hard to tell precisely where things are going. :Va
I'm staying optimistic it won't either, so far we've had a portion of this chapter and one page from last chapter going over Christian themes, it might be like aRTD where you have one chapter that talks a bit about Christianity or related things and that's it, or it might be like, two or so chapters because SSSS is way longer but it'd still be a snippet of the story.
Post by: Vafhudr on July 27, 2016, 11:58:19 PM
Now how effective this may be, we don't know.
My general metaphysical take on the topic is that having christian and pagan priests running around doesn't really matter. The fundamental understructure. the dreaming/spirit world, is common to all men, across all culture and religious traditions, possibly.
Post by: Róisín on July 28, 2016, 12:35:55 AM
And yeah, I see no reason why an honestly spiritual Christian priest of any denomination should not be willing to put her own future on hold to care for her folk. After all, that's her job.
Post by: Miriam on July 28, 2016, 05:58:42 AM
Given the cesspol that a comments section can turn into (and, from the looks of it, unfortunately is turning into) at the merest mention of religion? Completely agree. I was enjoying the pagan universe. I want to know more about the pagan universe. I'm still banking on the murderghosts being Christians who might be helped to remember their past selves via their religion, but I'd really rather not see such a storyline get dragged out.
I agree too. We want a pagan world. This is why I hope Reynir (even though he's a herder and can walk over water) won't become a christian.
Post by: Lazy8 on July 28, 2016, 08:29:49 AM
I agree too. We want a pagan world. This is why I hope Reynir (even though he's a herder and can walk over water) won't become a christian.
Given what Minna said about the Norse gods not granting powers to anyone who's been claimed by other gods, I find Reynir becoming Christian to be highly unlikely. (Though it just occurred to me it might be pretty funny if he gets mistaken for Jesus by the murderghosts for the aforementioned reasons and that's why they let him lead them to rest. ;D ) Minna has also talked about her fascination with Norse mythology, so there's still some hope in me that that will remain the primary focus of the story as far as religion goes.
Post by: Miriam on July 28, 2016, 08:52:12 AM
Given what Minna said about the Norse gods not granting powers to anyone who's been claimed by other gods, I find Reynir becoming Christian to be highly unlikely. (Though it just occurred to me it might be pretty funny if he gets mistaken for Jesus by the murderghosts for the aforementioned reasons and that's why they let him lead them to rest. ;D ) Minna has also talked about her fascination with Norse mythology, so there's still some hope in me that that will remain the primary focus of the story as far as religion goes.
Oh yes, Reynir being mistaken as Jesus would be hilarious :D
Post by: Hrollo on July 28, 2016, 09:00:05 AM
We want a pagan world.
Let's not generalize. I for one am perfectly fine with the idea of a world where both pagan and christian beliefs are true and not evil — there's a long tradition of literary works (by Christian authors even) embrassing that concept (not least of them the Arthurian cycle).
Although in the case of SSSS, I'm still more inclined that whatever magic is, it's the same underlying thing for everyone and that their own religious beliefs only superficially shape the way they access to it and manifest its powers.
Post by: urbicande on July 28, 2016, 09:30:30 AM
Given what Minna said about the Norse gods not granting powers to anyone who's been claimed by other gods, I find Reynir becoming Christian to be highly unlikely. (Though it just occurred to me it might be pretty funny if he gets mistaken for Jesus by the murderghosts for the aforementioned reasons and that's why they let him lead them to rest. ;D ) Minna has also talked about her fascination with Norse mythology, so there's still some hope in me that that will remain the primary focus of the story as far as religion goes.
They're probably all sitting there in Dunmanifestin (http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Dunmanifestin) and saying, "I'll trade you one follower for two ghosts and a first-round draft pick." to each other.
Post by: Lazy8 on July 28, 2016, 09:43:41 AM
Let's not generalize. I for one am perfectly fine with the idea of a world where both pagan and christian beliefs are true and not evil — there's a long tradition of literary works (by Christian authors even) embrassing that concept (not least of them the Arthurian cycle).
Although in the case of SSSS, I'm still more inclined that whatever magic is, it's the same underlying thing for everyone and that their own religious beliefs only superficially shape the way they access to it and manifest its powers.
*blinks* How is that generalizing? I never said I wanted Christianity to turn out evil in this world, though the going assumption for me was that it did in fact turn out to be false, given that the pagan religions were the ones that survived - I'd have been perfectly fine if the matter had never been brought up at all, to be honest.
Part of my views on this are personal opinion - culturally I've found paganism to be a lot more engaging and interesting than Christianity, perhaps due to oversaturation in real life (I want to find out more about the culture I know less about). Part of it is my complete lack of faith in the ability of people to behave like mature adults when a touchy subject like religion is brought up, and I was right - I've already seen people in the comments section bashing non-Christians, claiming that Jews worship a "blood god", and saying that only secularists ever commit genocide. And yeah, I'm well aware that this is on the commentators who can't be bothered to behave like human beings, not on the comic, but suddenly throwing Christianity into a world that was previously established to be be predominantly pagan and atheist just feels like opening a can of worms that really didn't need to be opened.
Could you name some of those literary works that you mentioned, and what time periods they were written in? I'm curious as to cultural context, how all-encompassing monotheism was as compared to the modern day, and how well different religious belief systems were able to coexist with each other, also as compared to the modern day. Because cultural context does matter.
Post by: urbicande on July 28, 2016, 10:19:13 AM
Could you name some of those literary works that you mentioned, and what time periods they were written in? I'm curious as to cultural context, how all-encompassing monotheism was as compared to the modern day, and how well different religious belief systems were able to coexist with each other, also as compared to the modern day. Because cultural context does matter.
I'm not sure you can say "the modern day" without adding " in the western world. Hinduism has many deities, Buddhism (as I understand it) has none, really. (And, yes, SSSS takes place in northern Europe, so that counts as Western).
But I think that you could say that the old gods are *currently* ascendant in the SSSSverse, just as some version of the sort of overarching Abrahamic god was ascendant for many years in the SSSSverse. There may well be an ebb and flow of...oh...divine tides. (Which is an interesting concept that I wouldn't have thought of without this discussion).
Must think about that :)
Post by: Lazy8 on July 28, 2016, 10:36:37 AM
I'm not sure you can say "the modern day" without adding " in the western world. Hinduism has many deities, Buddhism (as I understand it) has none, really. (And, yes, SSSS takes place in northern Europe, so that counts as Western).
Very true. I guess I kind of thought that was implied by context, though, as we have been discussing primarily Western works.
Quote
But I think that you could say that the old gods are *currently* ascendant in the SSSSverse, just as some version of the sort of overarching Abrahamic god was ascendant for many years in the SSSSverse. There may well be an ebb and flow of...oh...divine tides. (Which is an interesting concept that I wouldn't have thought of without this discussion).
Must think about that :)
Hm... yes, must think... Really, the whole concept of overarching cultural changes that are induced by an apocalypse is a fascinating topic. I've wondered before whether Christianity might have died out because the Christian God failed to protect his followers, while the pagan gods have demonstrably looked after theirs via the return of magic to the world, and the atheists have at least done a passable job of looking after themselves. (Sweden was quite successful at this, Denmark... not so much, but at least the Danish atheists managed to survive, which is more than can be said for any of the surviving remnants of Christianity that have appeared so far.)
Come to think of it, I've also seen someone put forth the idea that Mikkel might not actually be an atheist, but rather a Christian. It's not incompatible with his dismissiveness of magic, nor is it surprising that he wouldn't have said anything about it, given that as I understand it religion is a pretty taboo topic in the Nordic countries. Plus there was Minna's note that Mikkel could have told Reynir the significance of the cross if Reynir had thought to show it to him. Then again, given the Danes' fascination with the past it's also possible that Mikkel has simply done his homework and knows a lot more than the average person about the Old World in general. Honestly I'm still not sure how I feel about this possibility; I guess it would depend mostly on execution.
EDIT: Though come to think of it, his use of the phrase "you spiritual folks" with regards to Reynir's praying implies that he himself is not spiritual, so there's most of the basis for that theory out the window...
Post by: Hrollo on July 28, 2016, 12:26:48 PM
*blinks* How is that generalizing?
I don't understand your confusion; I was answering to a very specific sentence from someone who was not you, and which did contain a generalization about what "we" wanted to see in SSSS.
Post by: urbicande on July 28, 2016, 12:42:35 PM
Hm... yes, must think... Really, the whole concept of overarching cultural changes that are induced by an apocalypse is a fascinating topic. I've wondered before whether Christianity might have died out because the Christian God failed to protect his followers, while the pagan gods have demonstrably looked after theirs via the return of magic to the world, and the atheists have at least done a passable job of looking after themselves. (Sweden was quite successful at this, Denmark... not so much, but at least the Danish atheists managed to survive, which is more than can be said for any of the surviving remnants of Christianity that have appeared so far.)
Oh, absolutely.
Mind, we don't know that Christianity has died out entirely, although it clearly will be a very minority religion in the SSSS world. But my own background (Jewish) shows that a faith, no matter how small in terms of numbers, can survive. Here in the real world there are still Zoroastrians. Heck, there are still *Samaritans*
Come to think of it, I've also seen someone put forth the idea that Mikkel might not actually be an atheist, but rather a Christian. It's not incompatible with his dismissiveness of magic, nor is it surprising that he wouldn't have said anything about it, given that as I understand it religion is a pretty taboo topic in the Nordic countries. Plus there was Minna's note that Mikkel could have told Reynir the significance of the cross if Reynir had thought to show it to him. Then again, given the Danes' fascination with the past it's also possible that Mikkel has simply done his homework and knows a lot more than the average person about the Old World in general. Honestly I'm still not sure how I feel about this possibility; I guess it would depend mostly on execution.
EDIT: Though come to think of it, his use of the phrase "you spiritual folks" with regards to Reynir's praying implies that he himself is not spiritual, so there's most of the basis for that theory out the window...
Yeah, if Mikkel is Christian he's only nominally so.
Onni, on the other hand, seems pretty well informed about the gods of the old world, which is a little surprising given the heavy emphasis that Finns probably have to place on just surviving.
Post by: Lazy8 on July 28, 2016, 01:29:08 PM
I don't understand your confusion; I was answering to a very specific sentence from someone who was not you, and which did contain a generalization about what "we" wanted to see in SSSS.
I was reading your statement as being about generalizing concerning the presence of religions, not about generalizing the people in the fandom.
Post by: Juniper on July 28, 2016, 01:46:35 PM
Part of my views on this are personal opinion - culturally I've found paganism to be a lot more engaging and interesting than Christianity, perhaps due to oversaturation in real life (I want to find out more about the culture I know less about). Part of it is my complete lack of faith in the ability of people to behave like mature adults when a touchy subject like religion is brought up, and I was right - I've already seen people in the comments section bashing non-Christians, claiming that Jews worship a "blood god", and saying that only secularists ever commit genocide. And yeah, I'm well aware that this is on the commentators who can't be bothered to behave like human beings, not on the comic, but suddenly throwing Christianity into a world that was previously established to be be predominantly pagan and atheist just feels like opening a can of worms that really didn't need to be opened.
Don't forget that same post called Christianity a disease, I think they were implying that all three Abrahamic religions, or at least Christianity and Judiasm, worship a "blood god" because he called the blatantly Christian priest lady's god the "Jewish blood god" it's not just Christians being jerks about this. I've seen quite a few posts implying that all religious folk are evil / terrible / ect in the past few page's comments. Unfortunately it's quite a few people of quite a few different beliefs being jerks about this :c
Post by: urbicande on July 28, 2016, 02:04:38 PM
Don't forget that same post called Christianity a disease, I think they were implying that all three Abrahamic religions, or at least Christianity and Judiasm, worship a "blood god" because he called the blatantly Christian priest lady's god the "Jewish blood god" it's not just Christians being jerks about this. I've seen quite a few posts implying that all religious folk are evil / terrible / ect in the past few page's comments. Unfortunately it's quite a few people of quite a few different beliefs being jerks about this :c
Something I said (a year ago today, in fact) on Twitter: "Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make read the comments section."
Post by: Juniper on July 28, 2016, 02:45:10 PM
Something I said (a year ago today, in fact) on Twitter: "Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make read the comments section."
Ughhh this is so frustrating though because the comments section for SSSS was so fun and I was so happy that I'd found the one exception to the internet rule of "don't look at the comment section" but nooooo so many jerks are leaking in and ruining everything. Why can't it just be mead moose and squirrel cookies and fun chatter about the page ??
Post by: urbicande on July 28, 2016, 03:00:09 PM
Ughhh this is so frustrating though because the comments section for SSSS was so fun and I was so happy that I'd found the one exception to the internet rule of "don't look at the comment section" but nooooo so many jerks are leaking in and ruining everything. Why can't it just be mead moose and squirrel cookies and fun chatter about the page ??
A fair amount of the comment section is still very good and I'm still active there.
Part of it is learning to just gloss over a lot of things and ignore them, unlike this guy (https://xkcd.com/386/).
Post by: Lazy8 on July 28, 2016, 03:15:15 PM
Don't forget that same post called Christianity a disease, I think they were implying that all three Abrahamic religions, or at least Christianity and Judiasm, worship a "blood god" because he called the blatantly Christian priest lady's god the "Jewish blood god" it's not just Christians being jerks about this. I've seen quite a few posts implying that all religious folk are evil / terrible / ect in the past few page's comments. Unfortunately it's quite a few people of quite a few different beliefs being jerks about this :c
Being a jerk knows no religion. There are certain things that just stand out to me more because they make me twitch the most.
Post by: Miriam on July 28, 2016, 04:15:53 PM
I don't understand your confusion; I was answering to a very specific sentence from someone who was not you, and which did contain a generalization about what "we" wanted to see in SSSS.
Sorry. I was replying to Lazy8, and I just meant Lazy and me, not the entire SSSS fandom. *cries*
Post by: Róisín on July 28, 2016, 07:14:07 PM
And Juniper, don't lose heart! A lot of us are still trying to have a civilised discussion about an interesting topic, to clarify and understand the ideas, viewpoint and experience of others, rather than taking the chance to cut loose and be offensive. Why not talk to us and ignore the ones being vile? Yeah, I can understand why people get upset, as in the earlier blow-ups about race and gender, and why some of us might be very touchy about some of these topics, with reasons based in our own real-life experiences. But I don't consider that a reason to just toss insults and inflammatory comments around. If we are to be trusted with a forum and a comments section, we need to observe the courtesies and talk to one another rather than screaming insults. Doesn't mean we can't have vigorous debates, but let's keep it civilised, hmmm?
Post by: |Yucca| on July 28, 2016, 09:05:23 PM
Anyway, this latest page seems to be kind of a set up for a recurring character. I suppose her use will have something to do with the murderghosts.
Sidenote: has Reynir really been asleep like he was in page 555 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=555) during this whole sequence? Boy is he going to have a broken neck when he wakes up. I'm also wondering what happened to that soup bowl.
Post by: Róisín on July 28, 2016, 09:34:55 PM
Post by: urbicande on July 28, 2016, 10:10:30 PM
So that strikes me as a hint that there are still members of her faith out there in the Silent World (possibly even in the Known World, although they presumably have their own priests).
Post by: Vafhudr on July 28, 2016, 10:59:49 PM
Onni's apprehension might be justified. Who knows - perhaps the plague is not the only way to turn into a monster. Perhaps, eventually, her feeling of loneliness and abandonment will lead her astray, into a wandering spirit or perhaps one more malignant from the despair.
Her isolation spared her the monster, and her conviction that she is there for a higher purpose brings her peace of mind, but who knows how long this will go - and what are the consequences to that.
Post by: Juniper on July 28, 2016, 11:06:44 PM
Post by: Róisín on July 28, 2016, 11:09:41 PM
Post by: urbicande on July 28, 2016, 11:26:00 PM
I think this is what Onni is concerned about. He seems to believe (I think quite reasonably) that being dead and not moving on can turn the soul dangerous, as in the murderghosts. Let's hope she really does have a mission.
Both things can be true.
Post by: Juniper on July 29, 2016, 01:30:27 AM
EDIT: Ah here we go the "Abrahamic religions are a disease" dude is back at it again on this page too ;-_-
Post by: pinkie on July 29, 2016, 02:21:28 AM
Post by: kjeks on July 29, 2016, 03:26:32 AM
Being a jerk knows no religion. There are certain things that just stand out to me more because they make me twitch the most.
Quote from: Juniper
EDIT: Ah here we go the "Abrahamic religions are a disease" dude is back at it again on this page too ;-_-
Jon Ronson said in his book (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=172.msg116635#msg116635) that there is two kinds of people (on twitter): Those that put humans over ideology and those that put ideology over humans.
To me both are extremes. There is people lingering on the internet, waiting to troll every comment section that is larger than a certain number (which might be linked to higher chances of getting an outraged reply). The stage they get should be as small as possible.
Quote from: |Yucca|
Has there been any word about book 2 by Minna, though?Only thing I know is that she did not want to run a book campaign this year
So I come back from a holiday finding someone dead alive in dream world. I'm looking forward to see their secret revealed.
Post by: Fen Shen on July 29, 2016, 04:33:00 AM
Post by: ChazHoosier on July 30, 2016, 12:05:46 PM
Post by: urbicande on July 30, 2016, 03:05:26 PM
I assume the pastor's mission on earth will be concluded by leading the ghosts following the team to the afterlife. Since Christianity seems to be false in the world of SSSS, it's probably the pagan afterlife of floating sleepily in dust and shadows.
It's not clear that Christianity (or any other non-old-gods religion) is false or true in the SSSSverse. The belief is that the Norse gods protected Iceland (although I'd go with the ruthless quarantine helping a lot with that -- the gods help those whom help themselves), and the Icelanders and Norwegians worship them. The Swedes definitely don't, though, nor do the Danes. The Finns have their own, unrelated, gods. Mages, as far as we know, draw their power from the gods (although I have my own theories on that).
So the only thing we have to go in is that a) gods exist in this world and b) multiple sets of gods can exist at the same time.
Post by: Miriam on July 30, 2016, 03:27:33 PM
It's not clear that Christianity (or any other non-old-gods religion) is false or true in the SSSSverse. The belief is that the Norse gods protected Iceland (although I'd go with the ruthless quarantine helping a lot with that -- the gods help those whom help themselves), and the Icelanders and Norwegians worship them. The Swedes definitely don't, though, nor do the Danes. The Finns have their own, unrelated, gods. Mages, as far as we know, draw their power from the gods (although I have my own theories on that).
So the only thing we have to go in is that a) gods exist in this world and b) multiple sets of gods can exist at the same time.
Yes. It could be possible that all current religions are true in the SSSS universe (including the Flying spaghetti monster, haha) and all gods exist next to each other. In Y90, however, I think the Norse and pagan gods are way more powerful than any of the other.
Post by: JoB on July 31, 2016, 09:59:13 AM
Has there been any word about book 2 by Minna, though?Minna replied to questions about an aRTD reprint that that's more of a project than she's willing to take on in 2016. She did not specifically say so for SSSSvol2, but I'm slowly getting the impression that the same holds for it. Still maintaining hope, though ...
She's unlikely to sell through any other means than HiveWorks after the crowdfunders've received their copies, though. And I wouldn't be surprised to see an attempt to run even the backers through some similar service instead of doing the packing and shipping herself. She said that when she bought the house she lives in now, she did look for one allowing floor loads and truck access to do another shipment campaign, but she clearly doesn't like the workload.
Okay so like, those things that show up when a character is introduced that say their name / nationality / a tidbit about them / ect. I'm wondering if one for [Ms Mannered Minister] is going to show up eventually ?Only if we do get a name, and Minna plans to make her a recurring character. (And then there's Kitty still waiting for the promised entry on the characters page - and not yet having had an intro box, either.) Right now, she's pronouncedly Danish, clashing with the official religions of the Known World, limited to the dreamscape, and if she agrees to become the caretaker/guide for the (Danish) souls trapped since Y0, there's enough work for her to last a (pardon the pun) lifetime, while the expedition will move on to other libraries to scavenge. That doesn't seem quite compatible to me ...
the Icelanders and Norwegians worship them. The Swedes definitely don't, though, nor do the Danes.Yet, the info page says that the Nordic gods equipped them with fylgjur as well, skipping only the Finns for their association with their gods. Considering that noita supposedly can see spirits and thus verify that claim, I'ld be surprised if that statement were plain wishful thinking.
Not that the existence of a supernatural being that calls itself, say, Thor and encourages mankind to believe in worshipping it with specific rites would necessarily make the religion thus defined a true story ... or the absence of / loss of contact to another god the associated religion "false", unless he himself claimed to have disclosed the entire future to his followers.
Post by: urbicande on July 31, 2016, 12:28:16 PM
Yes. It could be possible that all current religions are true in the SSSS universe (including the Flying spaghetti monster, haha) and all gods exist next to each other. In Y90, however, I think the Norse and pagan gods are way more powerful than any of the other.
At least in the known world, that's very true.
Post by: Jethan on July 31, 2016, 11:44:31 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on July 31, 2016, 11:53:59 PM
Today's page is just so fun. I almost want to drink the coffee.
I am not at all sure it's a good idea to be drinking the ghost coffee.
Post by: Athena on August 01, 2016, 12:50:24 AM
I am not at all sure it's a good idea to be drinking the ghost coffee.
Ahh, stop being such an Onni! It'll be fine! (from now on anyone being suspicious or worried will be referred to as Onni :)))
Post by: Purple Wyrm on August 01, 2016, 03:44:29 AM
Oh, yeah... ;D
Post by: Miriam on August 01, 2016, 09:24:13 AM
No Reynir! Eating the food of the dead traps you in their world for ever!!! Didn't they teach you that at Mage School?!
Oh, yeah... ;D
Too soon, Wyrm, too soon... :P
I find it fun that Reynir has wordlessly persuaded Onni to stay and chat. Apparently Onni cares enough about Reynir to stay with him in the 'dangerous' church. I also think Reynir's smile in the last big panel is cute.
I was wondering if eating and drinking food has influence on their stomachs. I don't think so, but I do think that eating cake in the dreamworld can make them feel full while they actually haven't eaten anything.
Another important question: What kind of cake is it? It doesn't exactly look like cheesecake because of the layers...
Post by: ChazHoosier on August 01, 2016, 09:45:16 AM
Quote
It's not clear that Christianity (or any other non-old-gods religion) is false or true in the SSSSverse. The belief is that the Norse gods protected Iceland (although I'd go with the ruthless quarantine helping a lot with that -- the gods help those whom help themselves), and the Icelanders and Norwegians worship them. The Swedes definitely don't, though, nor do the Danes. The Finns have their own, unrelated, gods. Mages, as far as we know, draw their power from the gods (although I have my own theories on that).
So the only thing we have to go in is that a) gods exist in this world and b) multiple sets of gods can exist at the same time.
Pagan gods cannot be real unless the Christian faith turns out to have been very, gravely wrong about the nature of things. Pagan gods could exist alongside other gods because their concern was with one household, city, or nation—the Christian God's claim to universal relevance is unique in European religion. Though that's really neither here nor there in Minna's fictional world.
I also presume that the reason Finns and Icelanders turned to paganism is that pagan mages had something to offer that Christian priests did not.
Post by: urbicande on August 01, 2016, 09:59:11 AM
Pagan gods cannot be real unless the Christian faith turns out to have been very, gravely wrong about the nature of things. Pagan gods could exist alongside other gods because their concern was with one household, city, or nation—the Christian God's claim to universal relevance is unique in European religion. Though that's really neither here nor there in Minna's fictional world.
Having one set of gods or another waxing or waning as time goes on is perfectly OK within the SSSSverse, though. Nothing to say that the various monotheistic faiths are wrong about that either, of course. We simply don't have enough information as to how the Y90 world works with respect to the divine. (Which makes sense, given we don't have that much information about how the divine works here in Y0)
Post by: Laufey on August 01, 2016, 10:08:58 AM
the Christian God's claim to universal relevance is unique in European religion.
There is no such thing as "European" when it comes to how Christianity has been practiced, different countries and areas have all had their own little specialties and quirks. When it comes to the Nordics, Finns and Icelanders have been blending Pagan tradition with Christianity ever since they turned Christian. Finns especially kept serving their Pagan gods, land spirits and powers to such extent that there are countless complaints about it written by local priests. If Minna decides to bring in Christianity as another just as valid religion it's both historically correct and a logical continuum to how things have been f.ex. in Finland up until as recently as WW2.
I also presume that the reason Finns and Icelanders turned to paganism is that pagan mages had something to offer that Christian priests did not.
That's how it's always been, and the answer people found to it was to ask favours sort of... from the office that regulated them. :D Still unmarried? A few generic love spells to enhance your own sex appeal was totally fine. Went fishing? Why not give a bit of silver to the powers of water, or leave the first catch at a holy cup rock, that was just to make sure the spirits around were happy. Got ill and prayer didn't make you better? Well... the local magic user/s might be able to help, didn't hurt to ask.
Post by: ChazHoosier on August 01, 2016, 10:29:36 AM
Post by: urbicande on August 01, 2016, 10:51:12 AM
There is no such thing as "European" when it comes to how Christianity has been practiced, different countries and areas have all had their own little specialties and quirks. When it comes to the Nordics, Finns and Icelanders have been blending Pagan tradition with Christianity ever since they turned Christian. Finns especially kept serving their Pagan gods, land spirits and powers to such extent that there are countless complaints about it written by local priests. If Minna decides to bring in Christianity as another just as valid religion it's both historically correct and a logical continuum to how things have been f.ex. in Finland up until as recently as WW2.
Oooh, that's interesting! I didn't know that! How interesting! (Mind, my knowledge of Christianity is pretty superficial, and my knowledge of Finnish history and culture is very limited. (Although I can tell you that lonkero was invented for the 1952 Olympics because everybody in Finland told me that when I ordered one)
Post by: Laufey on August 01, 2016, 11:16:20 AM
Is making a potion or scratching a glyph on the door post real, sincere worship of pagan gods? Certain petty-fogging priests might have thought so, but all evidence suggests that people who did these things in the Middle Ages were entirely sincere Christians who would have been horrified by the suggestion that they were pagans on any level.
The answer to the first question is yes, if it's done with belief. It's also good to keep in mind that gods were not the only ones that were worshiped, land spirits and powers were the main deal with Finnish tradition (although worshiping Pagan gods like Ahti, Pellon Pekko or Tapio alongside the Christian God was commonplace). I'm not sure what you mean by making potions or scratching glyphs, I'm talking about praying and giving sacrifice to these gods. My source to this is that there are still old people who have done so, some still do, it's a living tradition.
I wouldn't call those priests petty-fogging, rather they were believing exactly the way the Bible says to be the right way. That way excluded all other gods and idols, but your typical Finnish farmer would rather maximize his chances of survival and turn to whichever god, power, spirit or magic-using person they thought might be able to help them - and occasionally also pray to the Christian God as well.
I'm not sure what evidence you're talking about here, since large groups of f.ex. Icelandic people in Middle Ages still served the Norse gods. This was written in Heimskringla, which states that as decided by the þing, although Iceland would officially turn Christian those who so wished would still be allowed to serve the Norse gods instead. Many other Icelandic sources also mention this, such as Brennu-Njáls saga and Landnámabók. Besides that many sagas mention reasons to why people would convert, those often being of political nature (such as in Egils saga, where men joining a Christian king's army were required to turn Christian; they did so out of political convenience rather than any sincere belief, and Egill himself was described to use Pagan practices long after he was baptized. In the end he even hid his silver by magical means, killing two slaves as blood sacrifice for it to stay hidden forever). All evidence I have points to Icelanders of Middle Age actually being completely fine with mixing the two religions.
Oooh, that's interesting! I didn't know that! How interesting! (Mind, my knowledge of Christianity is pretty superficial, and my knowledge of Finnish history and culture is very limited. (Although I can tell you that lonkero was invented for the 1952 Olympics because everybody in Finland told me that when I ordered one)
You know all the right things then, lonkero is delicious! :D
Post by: ChazHoosier on August 01, 2016, 11:27:05 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on August 01, 2016, 11:27:37 AM
Is making a potion or scratching a glyph on the door post real, sincere worship of pagan gods? Certain petty-fogging priests might have thought so, but all evidence suggests that people who did these things in the Middle Ages were entirely sincere Christians who would have been horrified by the suggestion that they were pagans on any level.
It might not be worship, but it's certainly acknowledgment.
As for "sincere" christians, well, as far as I can tell, the practices of middle age christians would probably strike many of us post-reformation/counter-reformation people as considerably pagan. People didn't just throw away the old gods and the old ways just because a priest showed up and told them it was evil. The more ostentatious forms of worship were suppressed, but folk practices endured, and through them, one could argue so did the belief in the ancient gods - or at least, the idea that you could appeal to other powers than the christian God - be they spirit or gods.
Edit: welp Laufey did this much better.
Post by: ChazHoosier on August 01, 2016, 11:31:15 AM
Post by: Laufey on August 01, 2016, 11:36:03 AM
The era when people tries to hedge their bets with both religions was a very narrow transition period. By the middle ages there just weren't any pagans left. People might have cast as spell or two, but it wasn't because of any commitment to Thor.
During the Middle Ages half of Iceland was still Pagan according to the sources I mentioned in my previous post. Out of curiosity, which sources are you referring to that state otherwise?
Post by: ChazHoosier on August 01, 2016, 11:49:54 AM
There is also the further complication that we are projecting a different understanding of religion itself onto the past. Paganism was a collection of ancestral rites and small daily rituals. It just didn't impose a coherent, universalizing worldview on its practitioners—or more properly, people could bring whatever worldview they liked to paganism. It's why different pantheons could exist side by side. How you resolved it all in your mind and how you lived was your own affair. It was Christianity that came along and suggested that there was one Truth for all humankind, and it was Christianity that boiled down Paganism into its own coherent worldview in dialogue with this Truth.
So did some rites that pagans practiced survive in the Christian era? Certainly. Does throwing a coin in a fountain mean I am some synthesis of Christian and pagan? Does it mean I am trying to appease well spirits? I don't think so.
Post by: Laufey on August 01, 2016, 12:29:05 PM
Egils saga too was most likely written down by a Christian scholar, Snorri Sturluson, but Egils Pagan practices and even his blood sacrifices were still written down and described as effective, and everything in his saga states that he really was capable of magic. There is even a mention of a goddess taking a side in a battle, turning it for the worse for the other side.
And I have to repeat myself a bit here because it feels a little bit like you're twisting what I say into something that I never said: when it comes to Finnish Pagan beliefs I'm not talking of tossing a coin in a well. I'm talking of having a sacrificial table for a god, or a hiisi site, and going there to pray. People certainly believed they were Christian, but some also blended in other types of worship that went much against Christianity... the difference was that many ordinary people didn't see a contradiction in situations where priests would see many. For this reason I don't see any problem with Minna bringing Christianity in to the SSSS world and see it as a logical continuum of the past.
Post by: ChazHoosier on August 01, 2016, 12:37:19 PM
Post by: Róisín on August 01, 2016, 01:37:34 PM
Post by: ChazHoosier on August 01, 2016, 01:43:40 PM
Post by: urbicande on August 01, 2016, 01:49:54 PM
You know all the right things then, lonkero is delicious! :D
You know, despite having been to Finland thrice before, I'd never had it before this trip. And it's lovely stuff!
But is any of that inherently pagan? It seems to me that both Medieval priests and us today are begging the question and presuming it is.
I'd certainly call it inherently pagan, whether we wish to acknowledge it or not.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 01, 2016, 03:21:18 PM
But is any of that inherently pagan? It seems to me that both Medieval priests and us today are begging the question and presuming it is.
Well if it is not pagan, what would you say it is?
Post by: ChazHoosier on August 01, 2016, 03:43:12 PM
So, does a Irish peasant think she is "blending religions" when she leaves milk in the fields appease the Kindly Ones? Almost certainly not. She most likely felt herself to be a good Catholic in a world filled with many unknowable forces. Did an Icelandic farmer think his glyphs on the corners of his fields implied he was a pagan? There just isn't much evidence that he did outside of these narrow transition periods. We know what the parish priest felt, but we shouldn't let his opinion have all the say.
In fact, even giving those rituals meaning identifiable as pagan is to concede Christianity's point. No one considered himself pagan until Christians framed the world as "Christianity vs. Everyone else."
Post by: Laufey on August 01, 2016, 04:26:57 PM
Laufey, not for the first time, your accounts of Finnish religious usage and custom remind me very much of the Irish ones. Especially among country people, nobody saw any contradiction whatever in people going to Catholic mass, then coming home and setting out a saucer of milk and honey for Themselves, last thing at night, or singing the old fire blessings rebranded to Saint Bridget rather than Brigid/Bride. Or, indeed, changing the course of a road to avoid damaging a sacred tree.
There's some weird link between the Irish and the Finns! :D
Somebody put this really well when we were discussing things people did not really believe in but regardless would avoid doing anything "forbidden" around it. Like some Icelandic companies calling a medium to help them if they suspect elf activity, or Finns avoiding making too much noise while rowing on a lake; you don't necessarily believe in it but it's best to not make it angry at you regardless.
Post by: Róisín on August 01, 2016, 09:53:40 PM
Chaz: I think most people don't overanalyse, or think: 'I'm doing x for reason y', they just live. And living involves connecting to their world, in whatever ways work.
Post by: Hrollo on August 01, 2016, 11:04:23 PM
Edit: also, while not exactly pagan, for centuries the Church accepted and even encouraged the practice of astrology. What we think of "acceptably Christian" today is very different from what it would have been centuries ago, especially before the Protestant reformation which took a much harsher and fundamentalist approach to religion (and pushed the Catholic in competition with them to kinda do the same in a holier than thou one upping thing).
Post by: urbicande on August 01, 2016, 11:08:29 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on August 01, 2016, 11:11:25 PM
Post by: Róisín on August 02, 2016, 01:27:41 AM
Post by: Minutia_R on August 02, 2016, 02:29:30 AM
And oh gosh, Reynir, do you really think that Onni isn't afraid of something, or are you just being polite?
Anyway, something weird is going on with the church lady's eyes being sometimes visible and sometimes not, but I don't know what it is.
Post by: Miriam on August 02, 2016, 06:38:34 AM
I think Onni is hoping that the ghost coffee will incapacitate Reynir and then they can get out of there with no more arguments.
And oh gosh, Reynir, do you really think that Onni isn't afraid of something, or are you just being polite?
Anyway, something weird is going on with the church lady's eyes being sometimes visible and sometimes not, but I don't know what it is.
I think that the church lady's eyes being visible or not has something to do with her emotions. It's more an artistic choice than something important in the story, I'd say.
Post by: Solokov on August 02, 2016, 08:23:23 AM
Post by: Minutia_R on August 02, 2016, 08:32:53 AM
Inn all fairness, if I didn't know what coffee was, I'd probably call it gross soup too.
I dunno, I'd probably call it a gross herbal infusion/tisane. (Actual tea presumably being scarce as well.)
Post by: Tr on August 02, 2016, 08:33:11 AM
Inn all fairness, if I didn't know what coffee was, I'd probably call it gross soup too.Reynir and Lalli could team up to name all the unknown things.
Weird moose, gross soup, etc. :P
I think that the church lady's eyes being visible or not has something to do with her emotions.I think so too.
Post by: Kelpie on August 02, 2016, 10:59:04 PM
Post by: Athena on August 02, 2016, 11:06:54 PM
I think "I belong to the forest" is my new response to everything. Various religious sects trying to convert you? I belong to the forest. Random guy won't stop bothering you? I belong to the forest. People making you do things you don't want to? I belong to the forest.
Good one! I think I'll use that as my go-to response too :'D
Post by: Solokov on August 02, 2016, 11:43:06 PM
I think "I belong to the forest" is my new response to everything. Various religious sects trying to convert you? I belong to the forest. Random guy won't stop bothering you? I belong to the forest. People making you do things you don't want to? I belong to the forest.
I like it.. also not far from the truth since I work for the forest service.
Post by: Róisín on August 02, 2016, 11:59:29 PM
Post by: urbicande on August 03, 2016, 09:21:14 AM
Post by: kjeks on August 03, 2016, 02:54:14 PM
I have a couple of forest-green tee shirts. Does that count?
Shirts you wear for tea? now that's exquisite :P
aaaaahaha I'd love to see Onni and Reynir teaming up and renaming all forgotten stuff!!!
Post by: Miriam on August 03, 2016, 07:13:55 PM
Post by: Róisín on August 03, 2016, 07:24:39 PM
Post by: urbicande on August 03, 2016, 09:43:37 PM
It looks kinda odd to me that Reynir and Onni are inside, drinking coffee and eating pie while wearing gloves. A small fork is easier to pick up without gloves and the warmth of the coffee cup is better to feel if you're not wearing them.
Maybe, but they're in the Dreamworlds and not in physical space. So the rules are different.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 03, 2016, 10:00:05 PM
It's not like it's cold in the dreamworld.
I mean
probably not?
Post by: urbicande on August 03, 2016, 10:21:16 PM
To be fair, they do look like really thin, leather gloves. So they are probably no obstacles.
It's not like it's cold in the dreamworld.
I mean
probably not?
I suspect that temperature is meaningless in the Dreamworld. Each mage can probably set the feel of their haven as they like, of course.
What's interesting is that Reynir can "taste" the coffee. This isn't a substance he's ever had before, so any illusion of flavor comes from Church Lady.
Post by: Juniper on August 03, 2016, 10:56:04 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on August 03, 2016, 11:01:14 PM
Also!
I really want to scream on disqus right now about Onni smiling and eating cake, because oh my god ?!? But I'm getting the weirdest glitch right now where it's the comments for the prologue showing up for that page and of course being over two years old comments are closed =/
Someone should do a side-by-side comparison of Onni and Lalli eating sweets, is all I can say. (Possibly also Tuuri if they've got the book and feel like scanning? IDK I haven't got my copy yet so I haven't actually read that bit.)
Post by: Juniper on August 03, 2016, 11:25:32 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/8dbdf74a2b32cbade5d782b4a3f99a62/tumblr_obd820fnzh1tg3kpgo1_400.jpg) (https://66.media.tumblr.com/d1f16280785489226c6330813cb29dea/tumblr_obd820fnzh1tg3kpgo2_400.jpg)
Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner so Tuuri can't get in on this sweet tooth collage, so here's just Hotakainens being cute but greedy and stealing someone else's desserts
Post by: urbicande on August 04, 2016, 12:01:20 AM
That seems to be what's coming down the pipe
Post by: Solokov on August 04, 2016, 12:03:56 AM
Neato, disqus glitch got fixed :3
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/8dbdf74a2b32cbade5d782b4a3f99a62/tumblr_obd820fnzh1tg3kpgo1_400.jpg) (https://66.media.tumblr.com/d1f16280785489226c6330813cb29dea/tumblr_obd820fnzh1tg3kpgo2_400.jpg)
Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner so Tuuri can't get in on this sweet tooth collage, so here's just Hotakainens being cute but greedy and stealing someone else's desserts
3 out of 3 Hotakainens surveyed agree that you'd best watch over your sweets or they'll be gone before you know it.
Post by: Kiraly on August 04, 2016, 12:24:02 AM
Someone should do a side-by-side comparison of Onni and Lalli eating sweets, is all I can say. (Possibly also Tuuri if they've got the book and feel like scanning? IDK I haven't got my copy yet so I haven't actually read that bit.)
Look what you made me do: (http://worldsentwined.tumblr.com/post/148431588949/someone-was-asking-for-a-comparison-of-hotakainens)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/cdd605ceea9607a9562f89d877776d41/tumblr_obdafoblzO1qjas7jo1_540.png)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/fb1c4dc33639461b95b9a7e9528b517b/tumblr_obdafoblzO1qjas7jo2_400.png)
Also...I felt weird about posting this on Tumblr because it's from the bonus comic (I have the PDF in addition to the physical book, so no scanning needed!) but I'll put it here since it's easier to remove from the forum if people think I should:
(http://i.imgur.com/os3ykin.png)
Post by: Vafhudr on August 04, 2016, 12:27:13 AM
Now is a good opportunity. It's not like there are any waiting for him in Finland. It's a whole new world of flavour - and mostly sugar.
Post by: Minutia_R on August 04, 2016, 12:28:01 AM
Look what you made me do: (http://worldsentwined.tumblr.com/post/148431588949/someone-was-asking-for-a-comparison-of-hotakainens)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/cdd605ceea9607a9562f89d877776d41/tumblr_obdafoblzO1qjas7jo1_540.png)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/fb1c4dc33639461b95b9a7e9528b517b/tumblr_obdafoblzO1qjas7jo2_400.png)
Also...I felt weird about posting this on Tumblr because it's from the bonus comic (I have the PDF in addition to the physical book, so no scanning needed!) but I'll put it here since it's easier to remove from the forum if people think I should:
(http://i.imgur.com/os3ykin.png)
Oh gosh they all do make the same face it's great!
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 06:42:00 AM
Church Lady is OK in my book. And after she helps Murderghost and company on the the next place, she'll be able to go off and go to her own rest.
That seems to be what's coming down the pipe
Seems likely, but how is the church lady going to do that? She probably wants to go to her christian heaven and Onni can't do that for her. I don't know if she's capable to go to her rest herself. She has said "I can leave any moment I wish" but is that true?
Post by: Tr on August 04, 2016, 08:00:46 AM
Seems likely, but how is the church lady going to do that? She probably wants to go to her christian heaven and Onni can't do that for her. I don't know if she's capable to go to her rest herself. She has said "I can leave any moment I wish" but is that true?Possibly. On page 572 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=572), the first panel shows clouds and light as she talks about heaven. I think that might not be a representation of her afterlife, but an actual path she can walk.
Also I just want to say that Onni stealing Reynir's cake is the cutest thing ever. I get the feeling Reynir would politely pretend nothing was happening if he noticed.
"Uh, Onni?"
*munch, munch* "What?"
"Uhh... never mind."
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 08:16:10 AM
Possibly. On page 572 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=572), the first panel shows clouds and light as she talks about heaven. I think that might not be a representation of her afterlife, but an actual path she can walk.
Also I just want to say that Onni stealing Reynir's cake is the cutest thing ever. I get the feeling Reynir would politely pretend nothing was happening if he noticed.
"Uh, Onni?"
*munch, munch* "What?"
"Uhh... never mind."
Okay, then the church woman finding her way to heaven probably won't be much of a problem.
And yes, Onni stealing Reynir's cake is the cutest. I also think that Reynir wouldn't be mad at him or anything. He's probably happy Onni is enjoying the cake. However, is Reynir as polite as we all think? He did say "This soup tastes gross" out loud, he could have thought it.
(Mikkel also never got mad at Lalli for stealing his cookies, although he must have noticed.)
Also, Onni eats pie with a spoon... why would one eat pie with a spoon... I'd use a small fork.
I hope that in the SSSSverse, christianity is true (next to pagan and the norse gods). Because otherwise, the souls and the church lady might have a problem...
Post by: |Yucca| on August 04, 2016, 10:06:57 AM
Also, Onni eats pie with a spoon... why would one eat pie with a spoon... I'd use a small fork
Is this a cultural thing or what? I've seen a lot of discussion about this in the comment section of the page too and it puzzles me. Because at least here in Finland it's the definite norm to eat cake with a small spoon. As is supplying the guests with one if coffee with cake or the sort is served.
Post by: urbicande on August 04, 2016, 10:47:00 AM
I bet Onni never dreamed of cakes before.
Now is a good opportunity. It's not like there are any waiting for him in Finland. It's a whole new world of flavour - and mostly sugar.
Yeah, but he's in Sweden right now!
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 11:25:44 AM
Is this a cultural thing or what? I've seen a lot of discussion about this in the comment section of the page too and it puzzles me. Because at least here in Finland it's the definite norm to eat cake with a small spoon. As is supplying the guests with one if coffee with cake or the sort is served.
You're right, this is a cultural thing! I talked about it with a Finn and they told me they would eat cake with a small spoon. They also told me Finns usually don't even have such small forks. Apparently cakes in Finland are generally soft enough to eat with a spoon. I wouldn't eat for example apple pies with a spoon, because they're too hard, but I heard that Finnish apple pies are soft enough to eat with a spoon. So maybe this cultural difference is based on the hardness of cakes. :V (Just a mere hypothesis.)
(Here in the Netherlands, if coffee with cake is served it's the norm to supply the guests with a small spoon for the coffee (in case they want milk or sugar) and a small fork for the cake.)
But it gets even weirder!
They even told me if coffee and cake is served, the guests only get one spoon for both their coffee and cake! So they have to stir their coffee with a spoon to also eat their cake with! Barbarians! :P We'd only do that in case of emergency: when we're out of our precious small forks.
Post by: urbicande on August 04, 2016, 11:36:17 AM
They even told me if coffee and cake is served, the guests only get one spoon for both their coffee and cake! So they have to stir their coffee with a spoon to also eat their cake with! Barbarians! :P
It's less to wash up!
Post by: Ana Nymus on August 04, 2016, 11:37:40 AM
Is this a cultural thing or what? I've seen a lot of discussion about this in the comment section of the page too and it puzzles me. Because at least here in Finland it's the definite norm to eat cake with a small spoon. As is supplying the guests with one if coffee with cake or the sort is served.
*shrugs* I've definitely eaten cakes and pies and the like with both forks and spoons. Usually it depends on the consistency of the cake in question.
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 11:45:36 AM
It's less to wash up!
True. I was thinking, the Finnish might hate doing the dishes. Or something.
*shrugs* I've definitely eaten cakes and pies and the like with both forks and spoons. Usually it depends on the consistency of the cake in question.
Possible, but since at birthdays there are often several kinds of cakes, it's easier to just give all guests a fork. For example at my birthday we had apple pie and cheese cake, and the latter could be eaten with a spoon I guess but apple pie can't.
Post by: |Yucca| on August 04, 2016, 12:15:33 PM
True. I was thinking, the Finnish might hate doing the dishes. Or something.
Are you trying to say there's people who don't hate doing the dishes?
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 12:41:08 PM
Are you trying to say there's people who don't hate doing the dishes?
Well, I don't exactly hate doing the dishes, I don't really mind it. Reynir agrees.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/d76fc40f78f7185eb46877b1547ab474/tumblr_o8xjhgTdlV1tfp7lao1_250.jpg)
Post by: urbicande on August 04, 2016, 02:35:28 PM
Well, I don't exactly hate doing the dishes, I don't really mind it. Reynir agrees.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/d76fc40f78f7185eb46877b1547ab474/tumblr_o8xjhgTdlV1tfp7lao1_250.jpg)
I don't much mind it either. Not my favorite thing to do, but far from the worst.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 04, 2016, 07:38:38 PM
For everyday convenience we've got forks, knives, spoons (for soup and cereals) and little spoons - for everything else: coffee, tea, yogourt, dessert.
So I would eat cake with a spoon. Especially if it has filling to be scooped. While a fork would be a decent option b.
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 07:42:39 PM
Little forks are like fancy tier stuff. The kind of things you'll find in silverware.
For everyday convenience we've got forks, knives, spoons (for soup and cereals) and little spoons - for everything else: coffee, tea, yogourt, dessert.
So I would eat cake with a spoon. Especially if it has filling to be scooped. While a fork would be a decent option b.
I wouldn't call cake an everyday food, though.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 04, 2016, 07:43:47 PM
But I wouldn't bust out the silverware for it either.
Especially not for the quality of cake made here.
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 07:49:17 PM
Thankfully for my waistline, neither would I.
But I wouldn't bust out the silverware for it either.
Especially not for the quality of cake made here.
Then maybe make cake yourself! :D
My silverware is possibly less fancy than yours, because I would bust it out for cake.
Do you know what kind of silverware is really fancy? Little knifes. Those are only in high tea restaurants.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 04, 2016, 07:56:56 PM
Then maybe make cake yourself! :D
My silverware is possibly less fancy than yours, because I would bust it out for cake.
Do you know what kind of silverware is really fancy? Little knifes. Those are only in high tea restaurants.
The only way to properly butter scone and apply devonshire cream is with little knives.
This is a fact.
Also yes, but that means I am then stuck with a whole cake. What a nice problem to have.
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 08:06:12 PM
The only way to properly butter scone and apply devonshire cream is with little knives.
This is a fact.
Also yes, but that means I am then stuck with a whole cake. What a nice problem to have.
So do you have little knifes in your silverware for at-home use? How overly fancy :P
Right. Because I live with five (six, rather) people I don't have the problem of being stuck with food so I didn't think of that. Especially my dad just eats three-days-old pie or cake my cousin has eaten half and left the rest. Ew.
What a "nice problem" for your wasteline :P
Post by: Anna on August 04, 2016, 08:15:54 PM
So do you have little knifes in your silverware for at-home use? How overly fancy :P
Having small forks and spoons (salad forks and tea spoons is what I think they're technically called) as part of the everyday flatware is useful if your family happens to include people with small, relatively weak hands, such as children under, oh, let's say eight. They're also good as "backup" for when you've run out of regular forks and table spoons and don't feel like doing dishes.
Post by: Miriam on August 04, 2016, 08:22:58 PM
Having small forks and spoons (salad forks and tea spoons is what I think they're technically called) as part of the everyday flatware is useful if your family happens to include people with small, relatively weak hands, such as children under, oh, let's say eight. They're also good as "backup" for when you've run out of regular forks and table spoons and don't feel like doing dishes.
Hmm. The family I grew up in has, besides teaspoons and salad/cake forks, also a bit smaller flatware besides the 'adult' flatware. Those are for children, not the teaspoons and cake forks.
Post by: Solokov on August 04, 2016, 08:30:32 PM
Post by: Anna on August 04, 2016, 08:31:57 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on August 04, 2016, 08:33:50 PM
So do you have little knifes in your silverware for at-home use? How overly fancy :P
Right. Because I live with five (six, rather) people I don't have the problem of being stuck with food so I didn't think of that. Especially my dad just eats three-days-old pie or cake my cousin has eaten half and left the rest. Ew.
What a "nice problem" for your wasteline :P
I do. Well. My parents do. Family heirloom tier things.
Yeah. A sad lonely bachelor is only asking for trouble by baking a cake for himself.
Which I have done.
But it's a lot of work and then it lurks on the counter and the fridge for a while, and it just tempts me into eating more and daily.
It's terrible.
Post by: Róisín on August 04, 2016, 08:51:14 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on August 04, 2016, 09:49:09 PM
Somehow I feel the topic has gone way off the rails.
Not our fault if the last few panels involved eating cake with a spoon.
And aaah Roisin, you are in that age bracket - that age bracket Onni feels confident he can defeat. I would root for you though.
Post by: urbicande on August 04, 2016, 10:18:23 PM
Somehow I feel the topic has gone way off the rails.
Besides, as of now (2016-08-05 02:17Z) there's no new page yet!
Post by: pinkie on August 04, 2016, 11:30:49 PM
https://twitter.com/sssscomic
Post by: Róisín on August 04, 2016, 11:38:50 PM
Post by: Miriam on August 05, 2016, 07:05:44 AM
Not our fault if the last few panels involved eating cake with a spoon.
Exactly. We just have to have long and detailed discussions about this new-found culture difference. (New to me at least.)
And aaah Roisin, you are in that age bracket - that age bracket Onni feels confident he can defeat. I would root for you though.
Hmm, I doubt Onni thinks he can defeat the church lady because she's old, but because he can sense she doesn't have strong magic (if any).
Also I'm sure Reynir would convince Onni not to start a fight against Róisín. It's not polite.
Post by: urbicande on August 05, 2016, 09:31:32 AM
Powerful stuff here.
Post by: Juniper on August 05, 2016, 10:03:57 AM
Thankfully for my waistline, neither would I.
But I wouldn't bust out the silverware for it either.
Especially not for the quality of cake made here.
I think using a tiny spoon for the same cup of coffee and cake would actually be pretty delicious because you'd get a bit of coffee flavoring in your cake and vice versa :3c
Post by: Solokov on August 05, 2016, 10:06:28 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on August 05, 2016, 02:50:19 PM
This is Reynir's first encounter with the church.
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=506 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=506)
That was 68 pages ago. And in comic time, that was "several weeks ago''.
Now we don't exactly know where and how far they have been, but they somehow stayed within "radio" distance of that particular spirit/dream space. Perhaps it was even the lady herself asking who was there in that panel.
Now, the reason this could be sinisiter is that I noticed a second thing while going through the pages of that chapter.
The monster in the water, the sjodraug, attacked before it was introduced.
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=477 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=477)
It could be a psychic attack, a first round meant to disable the preys. And/or lure them toward their lair. It seems that monster like this one can, like mages, have their souls wander. In fact, it seems to be an integral part to their hunting tactic - they find you and attack you in the Dreaming first, and then move in for the kill with their physical bodies. The Saw-Train Troll had the same approach. Of all the people knocked out we had all the non-mage except Tuuri (who is from a family of mages - might have some of it herself, or protections from her cousin and brother), suggesting that they had only minimal psychic protection. The other way to cut it would be that it's those who aren't immune who were unaffected.
It's unclear the role the other wraiths have in relationship to the sjodraug - are they just independently attacking the crew, all of them driven by their hunger, or are they being directed as foot soldiers by the monster?
What's suspicious is that immediately after that fight Reynir lands in the church domain. Why? Where they just suddenly spiritually close to it?
Or is it just the first layer of a troll psychic attack? A lure? Using a trapped soul as bait for wayward mages trying to save a soul?
The glowing eyes of the sheeps are especially threatening, to me anyway. Does it mean Reynir was being watched? Perhaps by something else? There was an obvious relationship to Reynir because he was a shepherd himself and his dog his a shepherd dog - making him, eventually, a literal shepperd of lost souls - but what if, what if that's not what was being hint at here?
What if, instead, we have a powerfull troll who's psychic strategy is to shepherd souls to itself, ensnaring them with cake and tiny spoons?
Other detail. Reynir doesn't break the little stained glass christian design earlier. It explodes in his hand.
It's almost like a jumpscare from a horror movie. Pastor lady herself would probably not know - she wanders lonely her old church. If it's the church lady herself, than it might be a sort of multiple personality set up.
Post by: JoB on August 07, 2016, 01:05:34 PM
You're right, this is a cultural thing! I talked about it with a Finn and they told me they would eat cake with a small spoon. They also told me Finns usually don't even have such small forks.That would explain why Onni would use the spoon on the cake, but the table was laid out by the Danish lady. Still, p. 571 panel six seems to show only one piece of silverware per person. We might have to draw the trump card of Minna being a Fennoswede here ...
The monster in the water, the sjodraug, attacked before it was introduced.Umh. While that attacker admittedly has a number of limbs that seems to match the sjødraug, Lalli was attacked in his haven "only" by the previously-seen humanoid ghosts, and after the cat-tank escaped, we saw but one of those left behind. And Floffy wasn't murdertouched until later. And whether Onni would fail to recognize a sjødraug - he specifically said that he doesn't know what the creature he fought off is -, is a bit dubitable ...
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=477 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=477)
Post by: Miriam on August 08, 2016, 11:15:19 AM
That would explain why Onni would use the spoon on the cake, but the table was laid out by the Danish lady. Still, p. 571 panel six seems to show only one piece of silverware per person. We might have to draw the trump card of Minna being a Fennoswede here ...
Yes, I thought about that. I don't know what they use in Denmark to eat a cake.
Post by: Solokov on August 09, 2016, 08:18:02 AM
Second though: not sure if these look more like pillbugs or giant fleas...
Third thought: Jesus Christ on a pogo stick the horse ghost bit things in the real world! NOTHING IS SAFE!!!!
Post by: urbicande on August 09, 2016, 08:20:01 AM
First off: Huh the ghost horse can interact with physical objects.
Second though: not sure if these look more like pillbugs or giant fleas...
Third thought: Jesus Christ on a pogo stick the horse ghost bit things in the real world! NOTHING IS SAFE!!!!
Yeah, that was my first thought on seeing the page. The second was "Slepnir. That can't be good for Our Heroes."
Post by: Vafhudr on August 09, 2016, 12:24:49 PM
Who knows. Maybe the next enemy will be like a sort of Wild hunt of spirits and trolls.
Also - shower thought. A good chunk of the forthcoming story will be Reynir uncovering what happened during the peak of the plague as he journeys to piece back the mysterious "A". We might not learn everything about the disease and/or the collapse of civilization, but we might get some very good insights.
Post by: Mélusine on August 09, 2016, 12:34:41 PM
I also thought Sleipnir - it does have eight legs.I was missing the name, but has the same thought :)
Post by: Solokov on August 09, 2016, 12:43:17 PM
I also thought Sleipnir - it does have eight legs.
Who knows. Maybe the next enemy will be like a sort of Wild hunt of spirits and trolls.
Also - shower thought. A good chunk of the forthcoming story will be Reynir uncovering what happened during the peak of the plague as he journeys to piece back the mysterious "A". We might not learn everything about the disease and/or the collapse of civilization, but we might get some very good insights.
But why would odin's steed be loosing trolls and other nasties onthe world?
Post by: Tr on August 09, 2016, 12:52:31 PM
But why would odin's steed be loosing trolls and other nasties onthe world?Its mother was Loki, after all. Maybe it has rebelled. :P
Post by: urbicande on August 09, 2016, 01:03:07 PM
But why would odin's steed be loosing trolls and other nasties onthe world?
The more dead heroes there are in Valhalla, the bigger the army to help Odin during Ragnarök.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 09, 2016, 01:11:38 PM
But why would odin's steed be loosing trolls and other nasties onthe world?
Well it's not Odin's. It's only a parallel.
Perhaps once upon a time there was a first plague, and the monsters that came forth were recorded in the myths that came down to us.
Post by: Athena on August 10, 2016, 12:55:57 AM
Its mother was Loki, after all. Maybe it has rebelled. :P
Thats a really good point :P Loki is the god of trickery after all.
Post by: Solokov on August 10, 2016, 08:08:46 AM
Though they may just be leading them to tall dark and spooky to add to the spirit horde as well.
Post by: urbicande on August 10, 2016, 08:25:32 AM
Post by: urbicande on August 10, 2016, 03:56:50 PM
Murderghost (currently in it's evolved form of Sleipnir) is leading an army of ghosts and Beasts towards Odense.
We know that at least two members of the crew aren't immune to the Illness, one of them is Tuuri. We know that Onni has a very fierce love for his sister. He begged her not to leave Keuruu. It was enough to get him to leave Keeuru and travel all the way to Mora.
So, Tuuri is killed (or worse, comes down with the Illness).
Onni is emotionally devastated by this. He blames Lalli, of course, since Lalli should have protected her, but he mainly blames himself for letting her go.
Onni becomes a kade out of grief and anger.
Horrible thought, I know
Post by: Athena on August 10, 2016, 04:05:59 PM
OK, double-post, but a thought just struck me based on another thread.(https://41.media.tumblr.com/7be99427a503299321b8aeb29afc428f/tumblr_inline_nlmlsoy5cU1r2g2kx_500.png)
Murderghost (currently in it's evolved form of Sleipnir) is leading an army of ghosts and Beasts towards Odense.
We know that at least two members of the crew aren't immune to the Illness, one of them is Tuuri. We know that Onni has a very fierce love for his sister. He begged her not to leave Keuruu. It was enough to get him to leave Keeuru and travel all the way to Mora.
So, Tuuri is killed (or worse, comes down with the Illness).
Onni is emotionally devastated by this. He blames Lalli, of course, since Lalli should have protected her, but he mainly blames himself for letting her go.
Onni becomes a kade out of grief and anger.
Horrible thought, I know
AhHHH wHY dO YoU Do ThiS To mE! O_O
Post by: Ragnarok on August 10, 2016, 04:09:04 PM
OK, double-post, but a thought just struck me based on another thread.
Murderghost (currently in it's evolved form of Sleipnir) is leading an army of ghosts and Beasts towards Odense.
We know that at least two members of the crew aren't immune to the Illness, one of them is Tuuri. We know that Onni has a very fierce love for his sister. He begged her not to leave Keuruu. It was enough to get him to leave Keeuru and travel all the way to Mora.
So, Tuuri is killed (or worse, comes down with the Illness).
Onni is emotionally devastated by this. He blames Lalli, of course, since Lalli should have protected her, but he mainly blames himself for letting her go.
Onni becomes a kade out of grief and anger.
Horrible thought, I know
Examines...ok, we need a worse option here...for evil reasons...
Alright-
Reynir tries to do something to protect them, and fails in the process, which completely breaks our poor innocent Braidy. Then he has to fight kade!Onni to keep the rest of the crew safe.
Post by: Athena on August 10, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
Examines...ok, we need a worse option here...for evil reasons...
Alright-
Reynir tries to do something to protect them, and fails in the process, which completely breaks our poor innocent Braidy. Then he has to fight kade!Onni to keep the rest of the crew safe.
...and he has to fight alone because Lalli was struck down by kade!Onni.
Post by: Ragnarok on August 10, 2016, 04:15:27 PM
...and he has to fight alone because Lalli was struck down by kade!Onni.
Yessssss....the depression grows.....muhahahaha
Post by: Vafhudr on August 10, 2016, 04:17:45 PM
I think the worst possible outcome is that someone does get infected during this - possibly Tuuri. Get a good stomach sinking moment as someone spots she has some rashes on her neck.
Since at such a conjecture they would find themselves deep within enemy lines with a very hard decision to make.
Of course, this could push forward a plotline where the crew risks all to go to Odense/fortress/military hospital in the hope of finding a cure.
And then, through Reynir's dreamquest to learn about A, we learn that there was never a cure. That ultimately, it might have delayed the symptoms, but it couldn't save anyone. She couldn't save anyone. Hence her current state of forgetfulness.
Though I don't think Onni would be angry at Lalli - he would be much angrier at the people who sent what's left of his family to die for a bit of money. You know. The people with whom he is actually, physically hanging out.
But idk. I hope this story is not going for maximum sadness. We can do that to ourselves, apparently.
Post by: urbicande on August 10, 2016, 04:19:56 PM
But what is a kade?
I think the worst possible outcome is that someone does get infected during this - possibly Tuuri. Get a good stomach sinking moment as someone spots she has some rashes on her neck.
Since at such a conjecture they would find themselves deep within enemy lines with a very hard decision to make.
Of course, this could push forward a plotline where the crew risks all to go to Odense/fortress/military hospital in the hope of finding a cure.
And then, through Reynir's dreamquest to learn about A, we learn that there was never a cure. That ultimately, it might have delayed the symptoms, but it couldn't save anyone. She couldn't save anyone. Hence her current state of forgetfulness.
Though I don't think Onni would be angry at Lalli - he would be much angrier at the people who sent what's left of his family to die for a bit of money. You know. The people with whom he is actually, physically hanging out.
But idk. I hope this story is not going for maximum sadness. We can do that to ourselves, apparently.
Well, no. ChurchLady never learned about a cure, which doesn't mean that they never found one. It's possible that they DID, but all the people who knew about it got killed by the trolls and beasts.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 10, 2016, 04:24:13 PM
Post by: Miriam on August 10, 2016, 04:28:35 PM
Though I don't think Onni would be angry at Lalli - he would be much angrier at the people who sent what's left of his family to die for a bit of money. You know. The people with whom he is actually, physically hanging out.
Hmm, I'm not sure whether Onni knows their mission is for a bit of money. It wasn't even in the contracts but they only told the crew on expedition, since it's a secret.
Thinking about it, I'm wondering whether Onni will get a part of the loot, now that he's helping from a distance with magic. This might cause some controversy amongst the people who organised the mission: the Swedes will probably never believe in magic and gods so Torbjörn might argue Onni didn't help at all.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 10, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
Post by: Miriam on August 10, 2016, 04:32:29 PM
Onni has no need for material possessions.
Okay, you got a point here.
Post by: Laufey on August 10, 2016, 04:36:49 PM
Post by: Ragnarok on August 10, 2016, 04:40:18 PM
Onni would be unlikely to become kade (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=747.msg113676#msg113676) though (although it's technically speaking possible since anyone can become one), he's not quite the type. You don't turn kade out of grief and/or anger but out of envying someone or someones so badly that you eventually make yourself believe their happiness is away from you.
Hrrm...good point. Unless Minna deliberately points out that the mythology is different in the SSSS-verse, which it could easily be given other aspects, like the dreamworld, that IIRC were not given much discussion beyond 'it exists' in traditional mythos....however I could easily be wrong on that, I know next to nothing about Finnish mythology.
Post by: urbicande on August 10, 2016, 10:49:37 PM
Onni would be unlikely to become kade (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=747.msg113676#msg113676) though (although it's technically speaking possible since anyone can become one), he's not quite the type. You don't turn kade out of grief and/or anger but out of envying someone or someones so badly that you eventually make yourself believe their happiness is away from you.
Envy?
"You! Torbjörn! Siv! YOUR family is alive? Why is mine dead? Why should you have living relatives? Why should YOUR family be alive when my sister...MY SISTER...is worse than dead?"
Post by: Minutia_R on August 11, 2016, 01:03:49 AM
I didn't think he was going to die but I was definitely afraid that something would happen to seperate him from the rest of the crew for a while.
Post by: Miriam on August 11, 2016, 05:22:14 AM
LALLI MADE IT BACK
I didn't think he was going to die but I was definitely afraid that something would happen to seperate him from the rest of the crew for a while.
And Emil is waving at him!
...I think.
Post by: Juniper on August 11, 2016, 05:39:47 AM
LALLI MADE IT BACK
I didn't think he was going to die but I was definitely afraid that something would happen to seperate him from the rest of the crew for a while.
He does look a wee bit banged up like he might have had some sort of bad encounter while he was out scouting. He also looks more unhappy than usual like he either knows what's coming, or about a possible encounter he had out scouting, or both ?
Post by: Yuuago on August 11, 2016, 08:03:49 AM
He does look a wee bit banged up like he might have had some sort of bad encounter while he was out scouting. He also looks more unhappy than usual like he either knows what's coming, or about a possible encounter he had out scouting, or both ?
To me, he just looks... super exhausted. (I might not look quiiiite that bad after a long day of work, but I certainly feel it. xD) Kid needs some sleep. Hopefully he'll get it before things hit the fan.
Post by: urbicande on August 11, 2016, 08:15:44 AM
Post by: Róisín on August 11, 2016, 08:35:04 AM
Post by: urbicande on August 11, 2016, 08:38:57 AM
He has possibly been scouting the University hospital, and is limping back after having to fight and dodge his way out to report that the place is solid with trolls and murderghosts. And that he feels a disturbance in the force.
"Minulla on paha tunne tästä."
Post by: Dunnadun on August 15, 2016, 05:24:52 AM
Post by: Miriam on August 15, 2016, 07:44:47 AM
Post by: Mélusine on August 15, 2016, 08:17:50 AM
None of them understand each other.Which makes all more funny. At least for the readers ^^
Post by: Solokov on August 15, 2016, 08:30:39 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on August 15, 2016, 09:01:21 AM
But it's an omen of what?
Post by: Miriam on August 15, 2016, 09:15:46 AM
I am seeing a tree and what seems to be the face of a moose.
But it's an omen of what?
I interpret it as the ghost horse approaching the crew.
Post by: thorny on August 15, 2016, 01:36:46 PM
But what is that in the inset? An amulet of some sort? And are they seeing it as an inset, or is it just an inset from the readers' point of view, and part of the main image to the crew? (and are they all seeing it, or only Reynir and Lalli?)
-- I'm just full of questions today.
Post by: Tr on August 15, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
I also took it for the ghost horse.I think the thing in the inset is the creature's eye, the inset panel is seen from a readers' point of view, and I imagine only the mages have the ability to see omens. Emil does look pretty clueless, after all.
But what is that in the inset? An amulet of some sort? And are they seeing it as an inset, or is it just an inset from the readers' point of view, and part of the main image to the crew? (and are they all seeing it, or only Reynir and Lalli?)
-- I'm just full of questions today.
Post by: Miriam on August 15, 2016, 01:44:50 PM
I also took it for the ghost horse.
But what is that in the inset? An amulet of some sort? And are they seeing it as an inset, or is it just an inset from the readers' point of view, and part of the main image to the crew? (and are they all seeing it, or only Reynir and Lalli?)
-- I'm just full of questions today.
Hmm, I thought the inset was the eye of the ghost. It does look like an amulet, yes.
Post by: Basse on August 15, 2016, 01:53:03 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on August 15, 2016, 01:55:00 PM
Hmm, I thought the inset was the eye of the ghost. It does look like an amulet, yes.
Minna explains somewhere near the bottom of the comments. It's an eye.
Post by: thorny on August 15, 2016, 04:49:31 PM
I'll enable enough to see the page this time, because otherwise your link only gets me the comic itself again.
Post by: Miriam on August 16, 2016, 06:50:18 AM
About page 581 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=581), I think it's possible Lalli does understand the Norwegian word 'bed', but Sigrun can't tell he does. Also, poor Lalli being hugged by Reynir and now poked by Sigrun. Stop touching him, he clearly doesn't like it. And look at Emil's big grin while playing with Kitty. That's a too big smile for the wrong cat, mister...
Post by: Solokov on August 16, 2016, 07:55:32 AM
Post by: Miriam on August 16, 2016, 10:06:02 AM
I'm imagining Sigrun having said "second star to the right, straight on till morning ensign."
Sigrun's pointing does look powerful, doesn't it.
Post by: Double H on August 16, 2016, 11:57:27 AM
Post by: Miriam on August 16, 2016, 12:08:28 PM
Hey guys!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVefPPr69NU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVefPPr69NU)
Ah yes I love the Prodigy! And I immediately thought of that too when seeing yesterday's page.
*Brags* I've been to a concert of the Prodigy once ;D
Post by: Buteo on August 16, 2016, 06:05:01 PM
Ah yes I love the Prodigy! And I immediately thought of that too when seeing yesterday's page.
*Brags* I've been to a concert of the Prodigy once ;D
And you survived! My eardrums and I salute you!
I do want to add that I agree with whoever said that there's no bad music - just music that isn't right for particular listeners...
Post by: Miriam on August 16, 2016, 06:23:36 PM
And you survived! My eardrums and I salute you!
I do want to add that I agree with whoever said that there's no bad music - just music that isn't right for particular listeners...
Eardrums? Don't you mean eyes? This particular concert (in Amsterdam, in September) had a lot, a lot of flashing lights. To protect my ears, I was wearing ear plugs (obviously I could still hear the music but not as loud, it was loud enough with them) and to protect my eyes I sometimes had to close them for a little while, which I saw quite a few of people around me doing too btw.
I think Emil would enjoy the Prodigy. After all, a couple of their songs are called Fire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1U0qvtQnE8), Firestarter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmin5WkOuPw), World's on fire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKGRgiQj6LE), Spitfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4BU0SS-8x0) and Fuel my fire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUIgPgPc2Ys) (although admittedly that's a cover).
Ah, I love this music... <3
Post by: PickleChip on August 16, 2016, 11:52:21 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/ZsRaj4u.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ykT0U3N.png)
Post by: Solokov on August 16, 2016, 11:58:24 PM
Post by: Buteo on August 17, 2016, 12:04:43 AM
Eardrums? Don't you mean eyes? This particular concert (in Amsterdam, in September) had a lot, a lot of flashing lights. To protect my ears, I was wearing ear plugs (obviously I could still hear the music but not as loud, it was loud enough with them) and to protect my eyes I sometimes had to close them for a little while, which I saw quite a few of people around me doing too btw.
I think Emil would enjoy the Prodigy. After all, a couple of their songs are called Fire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1U0qvtQnE8), Firestarter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmin5WkOuPw), World's on fire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKGRgiQj6LE), Spitfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4BU0SS-8x0) and Fuel my fire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUIgPgPc2Ys) (although admittedly that's a cover).
Ah, I love this music... <3
Good for you on the ear protection! You're right, just from those titles that sounds like a band for Emil.
I know there's a topic for music suited to this comic - has anyone compiled suggestions for music the various crew members might listen to?
On the blithe assumption they're going to survive a situation that has Lalli so despondent that he's turning down a cookie?
Post by: Miriam on August 17, 2016, 06:27:26 AM
Good for you on the ear protection! You're right, just from those titles that sounds like a band for Emil.
I know there's a topic for music suited to this comic - has anyone compiled suggestions for music the various crew members might listen to?
On the blithe assumption they're going to survive a situation that has Lalli so despondent that he's turning down a cookie?
For Lalli, I suggest Kraftwerk, a German band with calm repetitive songs. Some of
Lalli turning down a cookie is a bad sign. He must be nauseous of anxiety to not feel like eating his fave food. He does seem to talk a bit more now, not sure if that's a good sign or not. That probably means he's too anxious to sleep too.
Post by: Róisín on August 17, 2016, 08:19:11 AM
Post by: Yeiii on August 17, 2016, 08:50:18 AM
My reaction to the newest page
(http://i.imgur.com/ZsRaj4u.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ykT0U3N.png)
That was my exact reaction! Minna better take everyone safe from that city! I just love them all too much *sob and hides in blanket fort*
Post by: Vafhudr on August 17, 2016, 09:34:47 AM
This is going to suck.
Post by: Tr on August 17, 2016, 10:10:31 AM
That was my exact reaction! Minna better take everyone safe from that city! I just love them all too much *sob and hides in blanket fort*
*wistful and forlorn look at the horizon*Excuse me while I run in circles and panic.
This is going to suck.
Seriously, any time a mage is worried (or resigned, as the case may be) it's time to be worried.
Not only that, but tomorrow's page is the last one before the chapter break. (Except for the infopages.)
Post by: Double H on August 17, 2016, 04:14:32 PM
Post by: Miriam on August 17, 2016, 04:17:14 PM
I was looking at page 580 again and I just noticed how annoyed Emil looks in the last panel when Reynir is holding Lalli. ;D
I saw, it's cute. Emil does not want anyone to touch his cat, since Lalli clearly doesn't like it. It's nice that Emil respects Lalli's boundaries so much.
Post by: Solokov on August 18, 2016, 08:30:10 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on August 18, 2016, 12:33:31 PM
Preiview looks like a burned out (or bombed out) deathtrap.
Just look at all these places where a troll could hide.
Post by: Athena on August 18, 2016, 10:19:34 PM
Post by: Buteo on August 18, 2016, 11:31:43 PM
Preiview looks like a burned out (or bombed out) deathtrap.
It's hard not to agree with Lalli - "Get out the carving utensils, because our goose is cooked."
Post by: Kiraly on August 21, 2016, 09:54:52 PM
And handwriting samples!!! When I stop dying of laughter over Lalli's fanged Angry!Cat I am going to be giddy about those handwriting samples.
Post by: PickleChip on August 21, 2016, 09:57:28 PM
My reaction to today's page (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=584): CAT DRAWINGS CAT DRAWINGS CAT DRAWINGS AND A CATTTTTT!!!!!I know! It's so cute! Angry!Cat and sheep cat are probably my favorites.
And handwriting samples!!! When I stop dying of laughter over Lalli's fanged Angry!Cat I am going to be giddy about those handwriting samples.
Post by: Solokov on August 21, 2016, 10:02:24 PM
Post by: Tr on August 21, 2016, 10:08:01 PM
My reaction to today's page (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=584): CAT DRAWINGS CAT DRAWINGS CAT DRAWINGS AND A CATTTTTT!!!!!This. Is the best. Absolutely the best info page. I love all the cats.
And handwriting samples!!! When I stop dying of laughter over Lalli's fanged Angry!Cat I am going to be giddy about those handwriting samples.
This also seems to confirm my headcanon that Lalli sees Kisu as a fluffy poofy devil. :3
I love the little heart over the i in Tuuri's writing.
Holy sheep, a sheepcat!Pffft hahahah ;D (IT'S SO FLUFFY AND SWIRLY)
Post by: Vafhudr on August 21, 2016, 10:09:39 PM
Post by: Tr on August 21, 2016, 10:30:17 PM
(Languages: Meow. :D)
Post by: Kelpie on August 21, 2016, 10:54:30 PM
Post by: Basse on August 21, 2016, 10:57:19 PM
Also, Kitty has her own entry in the characters page (http://sssscomic.com/index.php?id=characters) now!Is a cat, Meow, Meow, Meow!
(Languages: Meow. :D)
Nationality: World.
I guess it's specific enough.
This must mean that Kitty is now a official member of the A-team.
Post by: Anna on August 21, 2016, 10:59:53 PM
Is a cat, Meow, Meow, Meow!I'm kinda sad Minna didn't go into Kitty's tragic backstory, but this is cute.
Nationality: World.
I guess it's specific enough.
This must mean that Kitty is now a official member of the A-team.
Post by: Ana Nymus on August 21, 2016, 11:40:46 PM
And handwriting samples!!! When I stop dying of laughter over Lalli's fanged Angry!Cat I am going to be giddy about those handwriting samples.
My immediate reaction: WHOSE HANDWRITING IS CLOSEST TO MINE??? ALSO KITTYKITTYKITTYKITTYKITTY
Answer: Reynir's, though mine runs together more.
Post by: PickleChip on August 22, 2016, 12:44:59 AM
My immediate reaction: WHOSE HANDWRITING IS CLOSEST TO MINE??? ALSO KITTYKITTYKITTYKITTYKITTYI did the same! Mine is either more like Reynir's or Tuuri's, but when I take notes and have to write fast, it looks like whatever Sigrun's handwriting is.
Answer: Reynir's, though mine runs together more.
Post by: JacobThomsen on August 22, 2016, 03:35:43 AM
Post by: Miriam on August 22, 2016, 05:35:06 AM
My reaction to today's page (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=584): CAT DRAWINGS CAT DRAWINGS CAT DRAWINGS AND A CATTTTTT!!!!!
And handwriting samples!!! When I stop dying of laughter over Lalli's fanged Angry!Cat I am going to be giddy about those handwriting samples.
I agree! We did have some small handwriting samples earlier by Emil (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=362)and Lalli (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=387).
Mikkel's handwriting is very neat, especially since he's a medic.
Post by: Miriam on August 22, 2016, 07:08:53 AM
Look what you made me do: (http://worldsentwined.tumblr.com/post/148431588949/someone-was-asking-for-a-comparison-of-hotakainens)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/cdd605ceea9607a9562f89d877776d41/tumblr_obdafoblzO1qjas7jo1_540.png)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/fb1c4dc33639461b95b9a7e9528b517b/tumblr_obdafoblzO1qjas7jo2_400.png)
Also...I felt weird about posting this on Tumblr because it's from the bonus comic (I have the PDF in addition to the physical book, so no scanning needed!) but I'll put it here since it's easier to remove from the forum if people think I should:Spoiler: Tuuri in the bonus comic • show
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/c63d7bd2113a58455bc9c1ce675f58a6/tumblr_inline_ocb2eaTcLC1sifbtk_400.png)
Added Taru Hollola! She isn't called Hotakainen, but she's family too and enjoys eating cake.
(I put Tuuri under a spoiler cut since I think it's a spoiler for people who haven't read the bonus comic yet.)
Post by: urbicande on August 22, 2016, 09:36:50 AM
Post by: Miriam on August 22, 2016, 09:44:36 AM
Huh. Chapter break while I was gone. That made it easy to catch up!
Not exactly. We'll get the last info page tomorrow and then the chapter break will start.
Post by: urbicande on August 22, 2016, 11:03:09 AM
Not exactly. We'll get the last info page tomorrow and then the chapter break will start.
Close enough :)
Post by: Miriam on August 22, 2016, 11:21:24 AM
Close enough :)
...That was my autistically accurate side coming up. I said it so you wouldn't think the chapter break was already over while you were away or so.
Post by: urbicande on August 22, 2016, 01:29:29 PM
...That was my autistically accurate side coming up. I said it so you wouldn't think the chapter break was already over while you were away or so.
:)
I was only gone a week, but I had no computer and SSSS is just too gorgeous to look at only on my phone.
Post by: Miriam on August 22, 2016, 01:36:25 PM
:)
I was only gone a week, but I had no computer and SSSS is just too gorgeous to look at only on my phone.
Exactly. I never read the latest update on my phone for that reason, but I do sometimes read the forum on mobile (before reading the page), which isn't the smartest thing to do...
Post by: urbicande on August 22, 2016, 03:17:06 PM
Exactly. I never read the latest update on my phone for that reason, but I do sometimes read the forum on mobile (before reading the page), which isn't the smartest thing to do...
Yeah, I understand that all too well!
So long as you stay off this thread and just read the rest of the forums, you might be OK.
Post by: Solokov on August 22, 2016, 03:18:53 PM
Hail to lord t'zeench!.. or don't. Doesn't really matter one way or another to me.
*may or may not be a chaos god in disguise*
Post by: Miriam on August 22, 2016, 03:32:04 PM
Yeah, I understand that all too well!
So long as you stay off this thread and just read the rest of the forums, you might be OK.
Yes, that's what I'm doing.
*is apparently a heretic for reading SSSS on a phone*
Hail to lord t'zeench!.. or don't. Doesn't really matter one way or another to me.
*may or may not be a chaos god in disguise*
Eh, do what you want. It's a personal opinion that I don't like to read SSSS on phone, you should just do what you like.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on August 24, 2016, 04:44:49 AM
Dumb noob question - do we actually know the date when Iceland closed it's borders?
Post by: urbicande on August 24, 2016, 09:41:05 AM
Not really to do with the latest page, but i thought I'd make this thread do a bit of work during the break (and I can't think of anywhere else to put this ;D)
Dumb noob question - do we actually know the date when Iceland closed it's borders?
Yes, we do. Year 0, Day 0 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=9) ;)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on August 24, 2016, 08:41:26 PM
Yes, we do. Year 0, Day 0 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=9) ;)
BOOOO!!! ;D
Post by: Solokov on August 24, 2016, 10:19:56 PM
BOOOO!!! ;D
If we knew the real world date that would be no fun.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on August 25, 2016, 12:28:41 AM
If we knew the real world date that would be no fun.
I was thinking in terms of day and month, not the year. Apparently it's in Autumn some time.
Post by: JacobThomsen on August 28, 2016, 03:02:28 PM
Post by: Athena on August 28, 2016, 03:52:24 PM
The chapter cover is up yahhhh ;D, looks like we're going to see Sigrun kick some troll ass
Hopefully! I'm looking forward to another big battle scene, however stressful and cliffhanger-y they can be.
Post by: Tr on August 28, 2016, 05:33:58 PM
Hopefully! I'm looking forward to another big battle scene, however stressful and cliffhanger-y they can be.Yeah!
Also... Mikkel, is that a crowbar?
Thirdly, where's Emil?!? *paranoia*
Post by: Anna on August 28, 2016, 06:16:52 PM
Yeah!Back at the tank with Tuuri and Reynir, probably. Most likely. *takes calming breaths*
Also... Mikkel, is that a crowbar?
Thirdly, where's Emil?!? *paranoia*
Post by: Purple Wyrm on August 28, 2016, 06:56:40 PM
Post by: Solokov on August 28, 2016, 10:13:48 PM
I suspect giants.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 28, 2016, 11:02:40 PM
Post by: urbicande on August 29, 2016, 09:39:15 AM
The chapter cover is up yahhhh ;D, looks like we're going to see Sigrun kick some troll ass
You mean MORE troll ass. Mikkel better keep his needle and thread handy.
Post by: Kiraly on August 29, 2016, 10:56:31 AM
...yeahhhh, we're going to need to keep the blanket fort well stocked for this one.
Post by: Róisín on August 29, 2016, 11:31:59 AM
Post by: Kiraly on August 29, 2016, 02:07:03 PM
Kiraly, I hope this will afford you an opportunity to comfort us with fluff!
I will certainly do my best! Fluffy fic and fanart with cheery color schemes (since I don't seem to do much color work that isn't bright colors, hehe.) :))
Post by: Solokov on September 01, 2016, 08:57:14 AM
Post by: Mayabird on September 01, 2016, 05:13:55 PM
Post by: Windfighter on September 01, 2016, 05:34:34 PM
I really wish they would pay more attention to the Cat Alarm.
Well, as our Goddess and Saviour Minna Sundberg herself said:
Quote
They do understand what Kitty is trying to say, but she's about as useful as a metal detector in a scrap yard right now. ;3(source: Comment section (http://disq.us/p/1bgl7zq))
That said, I do hope that they all have their weapons close at hand, in case of sudden giant or something!
Post by: Basse on September 01, 2016, 05:41:33 PM
Post by: urbicande on September 01, 2016, 06:43:25 PM
Well, as our Goddess and Saviour Minna Sundberg herself said: (source: Comment section (http://disq.us/p/1bgl7zq))
That said, I do hope that they all have their weapons close at hand, in case of sudden giant or something!
I notice that Tuuri has her mask on.
Post by: Mayabird on September 01, 2016, 07:47:55 PM
Well, as our Goddess and Saviour Minna Sundberg herself said: (source: Comment section (http://disq.us/p/1bgl7zq))
That said, I do hope that they all have their weapons close at hand, in case of sudden giant or something!
That does make sense. They already all know they're making a terrible mistake.
:(
Post by: urbicande on September 02, 2016, 08:07:12 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 02, 2016, 12:43:41 PM
Oh gosh. Chapter cover: dark, neutral color scheme. There's light behind them but (with the exception of those tiny windows in the distance) only darkness ahead. All of the characters look wary, and they're the ones who are most experienced.
...yeahhhh, we're going to need to keep the blanket fort well stocked for this one.
All the colour tones of sadness.
Post by: Minutia_R on September 05, 2016, 10:12:17 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on September 05, 2016, 11:23:37 PM
(Oh yeah, the chapter title page has Mikkel, phew!)
Post by: Miriam on September 06, 2016, 05:35:15 AM
Aw, no, Sigrun. I mean, I'm sure she's thinking that somebody's got to stay behind and protect Tuuri and Reynir, and she's right. But look at Emil's poor hurt face!
Oh, when Sigrun explains why she doesn't want Emil to come with them (presumably because someone needs to stay with the non-immune ones, according to protocol), I'm sure he won't mind.
Post by: Windfighter on September 06, 2016, 08:05:34 AM
Oh, when Sigrun explains why she doesn't want Emil to come with them (presumably because someone needs to stay with the non-immune ones, according to protocol), I'm sure he won't mind.I'm sure he's totally gonna mind because who else will make sure Lalli stays safe?!
Post by: urbicande on September 06, 2016, 08:48:25 AM
I presume she's nominating Mikkel as the reader, right? Because for a second there I thought she'd gone completely mad and was going to take Tuuri into the hospital.
(Oh yeah, the chapter title page has Mikkel, phew!)
If nothing else, Mikkel is the one most likely to know how to read Danish!
Post by: Vafhudr on September 06, 2016, 09:14:12 AM
Also - that pain she still has in her arm: fully expecting that to come bite her in the ass in a bit.
Post by: Miriam on September 06, 2016, 10:12:17 AM
I'm sure he's totally gonna mind because who else will make sure Lalli stays safe?!
True. But at least Emil is going to be protecting Lalli's cousin, which is also a thankful job.
Also - that pain she still has in her arm: fully expecting that to come bite her in the ass in a bit.
Definitely. Especially since Minna made a comment about Sigrun's arm in the description of the page. And there has been talking about amputations before...
Post by: urbicande on September 06, 2016, 12:51:37 PM
Definitely. Especially since Minna made a comment about Sigrun's arm in the description of the page. And there has been talking about amputations before...
That's just another way that this is a cutting-edge comic
Post by: Tr on September 06, 2016, 12:57:10 PM
That's just another way that this is a cutting-edge comicWhat a sharp observation.
Post by: Juniper on September 06, 2016, 09:45:37 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 06, 2016, 09:47:23 PM
Post by: Juniper on September 06, 2016, 10:04:50 PM
I hope that Sigrun gets a robo-arm after the inevitable gangrene arc.
*gasp* I second this motion ! All in favor please raise your hand and say "aye"
Post by: VibratingText on September 06, 2016, 10:14:15 PM
I hope that Sigrun gets a robo-arm after the inevitable gangrene arc.I'm torn. Should it have a gun, or a sword?
Or should it go the Treasure Planet route and be a mutlitool with both?
Post by: Tr on September 06, 2016, 10:20:27 PM
I'm torn. Should it have a gun, or a sword?Both. Because this is pretty cool.
Or should it go the Treasure Planet route and be a mutlitool with both?
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/powerlisting/images/5/5d/Swiss_Army_Appendage.png/revision/latest?cb=20130801150025)
awwww yeaahhhhh 8)
It should also be super rickety and yet somehow also steampunk and awesome because Tuuri and Mikkel slapped the prototype together in the Cat-tank.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 06, 2016, 10:42:17 PM
(http://www.art-of-war.jp/data/art-of-war/_/70726f647563742f32303134303532325f6265613965362e6a7067003630300000660066.jpg)
Sweden has future tech but not that future.
Post by: Ragnarok on September 06, 2016, 10:43:31 PM
I'd settle for a cannon arm.
(http://www.art-of-war.jp/data/art-of-war/_/70726f647563742f32303134303532325f6265613965362e6a7067003630300000660066.jpg)
Sweden has future tech but not that future.
Huh, what do ya know, the arm from Berserk has a real-life example. Cool.
Post by: VibratingText on September 06, 2016, 10:48:25 PM
I'd settle for a cannon arm.
(http://www.art-of-war.jp/data/art-of-war/_/70726f647563742f32303134303532325f6265613965362e6a7067003630300000660066.jpg)
Sweden has future tech but not that future.
Yes but what's the DPM and penetration tho?
Post by: Vafhudr on September 06, 2016, 10:49:02 PM
Huh, what do ya know, the arm from Berserk has a real-life example. Cool.
Oh yeah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen)
Not a cannon arm but not that far off.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 06, 2016, 10:51:00 PM
Yes but what's the DPM and penetration tho?
It's more of a damage per second thing.
As for penetration, it has more uh... punch. And blunt trauma.
I am not sure if blunt or penetration power is more important against trolls.
Post by: VibratingText on September 06, 2016, 10:58:44 PM
It's more of a damage per second thing.
As for penetration, it has more uh... punch. And blunt trauma.
I am not sure if blunt or penetration power is more important against trolls.
Unless it has armor you'd want the bullet to spread out and do as much damage as possible, so blunt. If it has armor, then of course you'd want penetration first and spread-out second. Perhaps a HEAP round though I doubt one that small would be very useful.
Post by: urbicande on September 07, 2016, 09:39:52 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on September 07, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Sigrun Furiosa?
Amazing how easily that comparison comes up...
If it does come to that, though, I'm sure there'll be a lot more pain and drama and a lot less awesomeness involved, at least at first. *whistles innocently and surreptitiously uses foot to nudge already-written fic under the rug*
Post by: urbicande on September 07, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
Amazing how easily that comparison comes up...
If it does come to that, though, I'm sure there'll be a lot more pain and drama and a lot less awesomeness involved, at least at first. *whistles innocently and surreptitiously uses foot to nudge already-written fic under the rug*
Nonething involving Sigrun is ever less than 105% awesome
Post by: VibratingText on September 07, 2016, 11:00:13 AM
Amazing how easily that comparison comes up...
If it does come to that, though, I'm sure there'll be a lot more pain and drama and a lot less awesomeness involved, at least at first. *whistles innocently and surreptitiously uses foot to nudge already-written fic under the rug*
Pain and drama can still be awesome.
But I'd imagine it to look more like a less complex version of automail, or the DARPA arm. Not as advanced as actual automail, but not as clunky-looking or as hollow as Furiosa's arm.
Of course as long as it can hold a gun or a sword and/or punch trolls, Sigrun would probably be happy enough with it.
Post by: Solokov on September 07, 2016, 12:19:24 PM
Post by: VibratingText on September 07, 2016, 09:19:13 PM
Post by: Solokov on September 07, 2016, 09:27:56 PM
Post by: VibratingText on September 07, 2016, 09:35:14 PM
Those chairs at the bottom look like teeth.. worn down rounded and mossy, but teeth nonetheless....
I'll admit, I saw the panels from Guess Who in those chairs. But I can see teeth.
Post by: Lazy8 on September 08, 2016, 09:14:59 AM
- Mikkel knows full well what's going on, but the possibility of finding a cure is enticing enough that he's joined Sigrun up De Nial and downplayed the danger posed by walking into the middle of a troll nest while entrusting his safety to a captain whose limb could give out on her at a crucial moment.
- Mikkel should have noticed, but is busy trying to cover a handicap of his own - that his eyesight is just that bad. An intriguing fan theory, but one for which we as yet have no concrete proof.
- There are no visible symptoms. Either Sigrun is experiencing severe pain due to something that's gone wrong at a deeper level and wouldn't even be apparent until she tried to move the arm, or really bad itching that wouldn't produce any visual symptoms unless she'd been recently scratching it.
Yep, this'll be fun.
Post by: urbicande on September 08, 2016, 09:54:02 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on September 08, 2016, 10:04:36 AM
Dunno. How long do deep muscle puncture wounds take to heal?
No idea. Even if this is normal, though, that doesn't invalidate my point that Mikkel should have known better.
Post by: VibratingText on September 08, 2016, 11:37:40 AM
Dunno. How long do deep muscle puncture wounds take to heal?
A few months for the bulk of the healing to finish, but complete and total healing would take a few years. Clearly time they don't have and definitely longer than Sigrun would ever willingly wait.
Post by: Aierdome on September 08, 2016, 12:49:48 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 08, 2016, 12:56:12 PM
Looking back through the last few pages, we admittedly did not get a good view of the building they are exploring. No establishing shot for that particular building.
Post by: Miriam on September 08, 2016, 01:27:18 PM
I'd like to ask a question, because I can't quite figure it out (or remember, I guess) - what is this place Sigrun, Mikkel and Lalli are in? A shopping mall, a school, a train station?
Page 586 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=586): "Anyway, here we are at the cusp of some interesting hospital adventures."
Page 588 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=588): "Hey, we're already approaching the hospital area!"
Post by: Aierdome on September 08, 2016, 05:01:10 PM
I presumed an hospital. Not only because of the dream sequence foreshadowing, but also because, in the panels, there are chairs and arrangements that would suggest a waiting room.
Looking back through the last few pages, we admittedly did not get a good view of the building they are exploring. No establishing shot for that particular building.
Page 586 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=586): "Anyway, here we are at the cusp of some interesting hospital adventures."
Page 588 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=588): "Hey, we're already approaching the hospital area!"
Oooh, that makes sense. Thank you both!
Post by: Róisín on September 08, 2016, 06:22:12 PM
As to deep puncture wounds, in my own experience they take weeks to months to heal, and hurt for some while after that. Then, I wouldn't know about troll bites! But I heal quite fast, and have only experienced such hurts from the bites of a large dog, and from splintered wood, both of which would be clean in comparison. I wonder whether Sigrun has somehow managed to conceal an injury or infection from Mikkel? Can't quite see how, but it would fit with how she is acting.
Post by: |Yucca| on September 08, 2016, 07:11:32 PM
I presumed an hospital. Not only because of the dream sequence foreshadowing, but also because, in the panels, there are chairs and arrangements that would suggest a waiting room.
Looking back through the last few pages, we admittedly did not get a good view of the building they are exploring. No establishing shot for that particular building block.
Like others mentioned, it's the OUH complex.
We also know where they entered the hospital complex. The entrance seen on page 589 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=589) and the next page is quite clearly the main entrance on the west side of the main building.
(http://i.imgur.com/8MbRY8F.jpg)
Google Streetview link (https://www.google.fi/maps/@55.3850914,10.3649725,3a,42.9y,165.71h,89.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqtMnFEgNQf5EaFI-dtCYBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Post by: Lazy8 on September 08, 2016, 07:25:12 PM
It's Odense University Hospital, which is where the labels on the syringes Mikkel found said that the 'cure ' came from. That's why they came so far, looking for a cure. Even if it's not perfect, Mikkel and the base team back in Mora think it might be a jumping-off point for finding a real cure.
As to deep puncture wounds, in my own experience they take weeks to months to heal, and hurt for some while after that. Then, I wouldn't know about troll bites! But I heal quite fast, and have only experienced such hurts from the bites of a large dog, and from splintered wood, both of which would be clean in comparison. I wonder whether Sigrun has somehow managed to conceal an injury or infection from Mikkel? Can't quite see how, but it would fit with how she is acting.
That's exactly what's been driving me crazy: how could she hide something like this from the medic who's been treating her wounds on a daily basis? Does anyone here with medical expertise (so not me) know anything about subcutaneous infection that takes hold in the interior of a wound but wouldn't necessary be visible on the surface? Is this a thing?
Post by: Keeper on September 08, 2016, 07:41:31 PM
That's exactly what's been driving me crazy: how could she hide something like this from the medic who's been treating her wounds on a daily basis? Does anyone here with medical expertise (so not me) know anything about subcutaneous infection that takes hold in the interior of a wound but wouldn't necessary be visible on the surface? Is this a thing?
I do not have such expertise, but I wonder: Sigrun hasn't really taken great care of her bandages. Even one day after she got the wound, she had the bandages undone and her arm gets thoroughly abused during her fight with the sjodraug. Then it's in a sling, and we do see Mikkel treating it while the scars are still pretty fresh. Then we have the time skip, after which she still has the sling but we don't know otherwise what's been going on with the injury.
I am definitely concerned about her not telling Mikkel that it still hurts.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on September 08, 2016, 08:00:50 PM
I could well be proved wrong :D
Post by: Vafhudr on September 08, 2016, 08:42:31 PM
I'm going to be a heretic and suggest that there's nothing wrong with her arm. The stars when she took off the sling was just her working the kinks out.
I could well be proved wrong :D
I mean yes, but murphy's law and all. This is the kind of set up that begs for her arm to just mess up while shooting or fisticuffing.
Post by: VibratingText on September 08, 2016, 08:47:45 PM
I do not have such expertise, but I wonder: Sigrun hasn't really taken great care of her bandages. Even one day after she got the wound, she had the bandages undone and her arm gets thoroughly abused during her fight with the sjodraug. Then it's in a sling, and we do see Mikkel treating it while the scars are still pretty fresh. Then we have the time skip, after which she still has the sling but we don't know otherwise what's been going on with the injury.
I am definitely concerned about her not telling Mikkel that it still hurts.
Post by: Solokov on September 08, 2016, 08:51:15 PM
I'm going to be a heretic and suggest that there's nothing wrong with her arm. The stars when she took off the sling was just her working the kinks out.
I could well be proved wrong :D
Papa nurgle approves of this heresey.
Also he might approve of all the yellowgreen bile looking stuff coating the floors.
*suspects trolls hidden in hazmat suits in the next room*
Post by: Róisín on September 08, 2016, 09:20:30 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on September 08, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
Like others mentioned, it's the OUH complex.
We also know where they entered the hospital complex. The entrance seen on page 589 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=589) and the next page is quite clearly the main entrance on the west side of the main building.
(http://i.imgur.com/8MbRY8F.jpg)
Google Streetview link (https://www.google.fi/maps/@55.3850914,10.3649725,3a,42.9y,165.71h,89.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqtMnFEgNQf5EaFI-dtCYBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I went and tried to do a thing with this. (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=271.msg121731#msg121731)
I'm not a medic, but have some practical experience, and yeah, deep subcutaneous infections are a thing. Tetanus, for example, and some forms of staph. Various anaerobic bacteria, mostly nasty. If that is the case, Sigrun may be feeling general malaise, mental fogging, maybe a slight fever......which could get a lot worse, quickly, once her normal inhuman vitality runs down - say for example if she is wounded again, or gets really hypothermic or exhausted, or majorly stressed out, or catches the 'flu....
Welp, that's good to know. *face in hands* Oh Sigrun, why do you have to go and do this to yourself?
Post by: Vafhudr on September 08, 2016, 10:39:23 PM
Post by: Yuuago on September 10, 2016, 08:53:52 PM
Meet Ensi Hotakainen, previously known only as Grandma Hotakainen:
http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/150229489615/nope-its-not-lalli-drawn-as-a-middle-aged-woman
Minna's description:
Quote
Nope, it’s not Lalli drawn as a middle aged woman, it is….
…Lalli’s, Tuuri’s and Onni’s grandmother, Ensi Hotakainen! Daughter of Saku and Aino Hotakainen. Depicted in her “youth”, aka not as a 90 year old. Somewhere in her 40′s, maybe?
That is Lall’s rifle, though.
~
I’ll probably end up drawing some relatives of the other cast members too in the coming weeks, this was fun.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 10, 2016, 09:13:38 PM
Post by: Rykka on September 10, 2016, 09:17:26 PM
Post by: VibratingText on September 10, 2016, 11:30:17 PM
> over 90
HOL UP
False alarm, she wasn't on the bugout boat in the prolouge. Which raises the question, how familiar would she be with the Old World?
Post by: Vafhudr on September 10, 2016, 11:44:26 PM
Post by: Róisín on September 11, 2016, 01:18:32 AM
Post by: Laufey on September 11, 2016, 04:59:51 AM
As for living on the boat, it's a possibility, but they do seem to have a land option because Tuuli mentions traditional sauna birth, and Eino speaks of a "rec room turned fallout shelter". Going by what would be really typical for Finns my theory is that they have a summer cottage + sauna on one of the gazillion little islands of the Saimaa lake system.
The boat can only be used for as long as there's gas for it, after which I assume they'll do the usual thing and use a small row boat instead (if you have a summer cottage next to a lake you most likely have a row boat). I guess they could try to re-stock on gas every once in a while, on those stations that are at smaller towns and villages... but that would be really risky and eventually those would run out of gas anyway.
Post by: Juniper on September 11, 2016, 05:11:29 AM
Technically not a comic update, but Minna has posted this on tumblr and twitter. It'll probably be included in Monday's update, I'm guessing.
Meet Ensi Hotakainen, previously known only as Grandma Hotakainen:
http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/150229489615/nope-its-not-lalli-drawn-as-a-middle-aged-woman
AHHHH this is so exciting !!!! She's so gorgeous and ethereal just like I imagined ♥ maybe I'm just a bit eager now that we have her name and face but I wonder if having this means we're getting close to finally having the Hotakainen back story revealed and this is why dear Ensi was on Minna's mind ? I'm really excited to see some of the other cast and crew's family now, like perhaps finally getting to see Emil's parents ? :D
EDIT: more exciting things ! She answered the question I asked her about family trees making this is the second question I asked her on Tumblr which she answered ! Still nothing on that question I asked her about the differences between all the crew's uniforms and their purposes such as the time she mentioned in the comments that Emil's coat is canonically thicker than the others because he works with explosives . .
Post by: Solokov on September 11, 2016, 10:57:14 PM
Post by: Juniper on September 11, 2016, 11:14:06 PM
Post by: Solokov on September 11, 2016, 11:17:53 PM
Post by: Juniper on September 11, 2016, 11:20:23 PM
Perhaps, but on the same coin there's the possibility that the chairs were already stacked on top of the elevator.
Nah, apparently Minna confirmed in the comments they were stacked by our dear heroes
Post by: VibratingText on September 11, 2016, 11:34:16 PM
I wonder how long it took to stack all those chairs and if they just made Mikkel do all of it.
Nah, apparently Minna confirmed in the comments they were stacked by our dear heroes
He took too long, and the others had to help him.
Things Mikkel is no longer allowed to do: Stack chairs
Post by: Minutia_R on September 11, 2016, 11:41:54 PM
Oh but she WAS on the boat! :D At least my brain is currently very convinced that Minna has confirmed that the baby Aino's expecting is Lalli, Tuuri and Onni's grandmother.
As for living on the boat, it's a possibility, but they do seem to have a land option because Tuuli mentions traditional sauna birth, and Eino speaks of a "rec room turned fallout shelter". Going by what would be really typical for Finns my theory is that they have a summer cottage + sauna on one of the gazillion little islands of the Saimaa lake system.
The boat can only be used for as long as there's gas for it, after which I assume they'll do the usual thing and use a small row boat instead (if you have a summer cottage next to a lake you most likely have a row boat). I guess they could try to re-stock on gas every once in a while, on those stations that are at smaller towns and villages... but that would be really risky and eventually those would run out of gas anyway.
In the Grandma Hotakainen story I wrote before the reveal (http://archiveofourown.org/works/7669366 (http://archiveofourown.org/works/7669366)) I posited that the sauna and the rec room are on the boat. I did a little bit of research and apparently it's not uncommon for houseboats and the like to have saunas?
Post by: Róisín on September 12, 2016, 01:58:49 AM
Post by: Miriam on September 12, 2016, 07:09:17 AM
Nah, apparently Minna confirmed in the comments they were stacked by our dear heroes
True, here's a link to the comment. (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php#comment-2888352811)
Post by: urbicande on September 12, 2016, 12:54:22 PM
Technically not a comic update, but Minna has posted this on tumblr and twitter. It'll probably be included in Monday's update, I'm guessing.
Meet Ensi Hotakainen, previously known only as Grandma Hotakainen:
http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/150229489615/nope-its-not-lalli-drawn-as-a-middle-aged-woman
Minna's description:
She looks like Someone Not To Be Messed With
Post by: Laufey on September 12, 2016, 03:31:27 PM
In the Grandma Hotakainen story I wrote before the reveal (http://archiveofourown.org/works/7669366 (http://archiveofourown.org/works/7669366)) I posited that the sauna and the rec room are on the boat. I did a little bit of research and apparently it's not uncommon for houseboats and the like to have saunas?
The rec room's supposed to double as a fallout shelter though. The necessary structure would in all likelihood be either far too heavy or far too large for a boat as small as Lumilintu, all depending on the shielding material used. You're right though that having a sauna on a houseboat is not uncommon, Finns will build their saunas wherever (and failing that there's also the tent sauna option). :D
Post by: Juniper on September 12, 2016, 08:36:27 PM
Post by: Keeper on September 12, 2016, 08:40:35 PM
Post by: VibratingText on September 12, 2016, 08:45:17 PM
Post by: Tr on September 12, 2016, 08:59:35 PM
YEAH MONSTER TIME !!!! But Lalli's knife almost seems smaller than I remember it being ;_; I'm just, going to have faith that he knows what he is doing and could still adaquetely defend himself against a troll with that thing . .I think he knows what he's doing, going by panel six. If I was a troll, I would not want to run into someone like that in a dark hospital corridor. (Apparently I'm feeling optimistic this evening. Don't worry, it probably won't happen again. ;D)
That troll's face(?) is wonderfully horrifying though, look at those empty eye sockets. :D
Post by: Yuuago on September 12, 2016, 09:25:01 PM
A gross, plucked, uncooked, mouldering turkey.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 12, 2016, 09:38:07 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/AzZMGph.png)
Post by: VibratingText on September 12, 2016, 10:09:35 PM
It's sad but seeing Lalli with that little shiv made me only think of this.Maybe the troll was Finnish and just respecting Lalli's boundaries.
(http://i.imgur.com/AzZMGph.png)
Post by: JacobThomsen on September 13, 2016, 12:36:11 AM
Post by: Juniper on September 13, 2016, 02:18:25 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on September 13, 2016, 03:42:52 AM
The fact that we only saw a bit of that troll and didn't even see any limbs or where it was making contact with the floor or wall or ceiling or whatever almost reminds me of an anglerfish, maybe not necessarily in the sense that it's using that head to try and lure people or other trolls over
Well, I wasn't planning on sleeping tonight anyway...
Post by: Yuuago on September 13, 2016, 07:28:09 AM
The fact that we only saw a bit of that troll and didn't even see any limbs or where it was making contact with the floor or wall or ceiling or whatever almost reminds me of an anglerfish, maybe not necessarily in the sense that it's using that head to try and lure people or other trolls over, although that could be the case, but in the sense we can only see a little bit of it and just a little bit is gonna wiggle around the corner at ya but I feel like there might be much more to that troll than what we can see on today's page.
D:
O lawd. Now I certainly don't want to see the rest of it! (That's actually lies, I totally want to see troll action, but FFFFF now I can't help but imagine that it's gonna be horrible and HUGE)
Post by: Solokov on September 13, 2016, 08:45:16 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 13, 2016, 08:57:53 AM
Post by: urbicande on September 13, 2016, 08:58:19 AM
Well, I wasn't planning on sleeping tonight anyway...
Sleep is for the weak and sickly.
Post by: Athena on September 13, 2016, 10:59:33 AM
....stuff like this is why a 10 foot pole is basic adventurer gear. I ascribe to the anglerfish theory as well. I suspect the troll is spread along the entire room and the edges of itd mouth is above and below the doorway.
I've always wondered how you even fit one of those in an adventurer's backpack.
I'm kinda hoping that the bit we saw was most of it, and its just kinda watching and not hostile buut I know that's probably not the case....
Post by: Pupunen on September 13, 2016, 02:54:12 PM
Post by: Kiraly on September 13, 2016, 03:05:08 PM
I didn't realize it was a head at first. I thought it was a foot with a really slimy, gross old sock on it. :-[
I feel waaaaay better about that troll if I imagine it as a giant sock puppet, so thank you!
Post by: VibratingText on September 13, 2016, 03:27:45 PM
I feel waaaaay better about that troll if I imagine it as a giant sock puppet, so thank you!
"Howdy, friends! Can you spell 'dismemberment'?"
Post by: urbicande on September 13, 2016, 03:37:51 PM
Post by: Hrollo on September 13, 2016, 05:29:00 PM
Post by: Róisín on September 13, 2016, 07:23:46 PM
Post by: Solokov on September 13, 2016, 10:36:29 PM
I've always wondered how you even fit one of those in an adventurer's backpack.
You don't and hope the gm never catches on.
Or at least waves appendages.
All 12 of them?
Also I nolice lalli didn't look down the elevator shaft....oh god it's in the vents isn't it.
Post by: Kelpie on September 13, 2016, 11:23:44 PM
Quote from: Solokov
Also I nolice lalli didn't look down the elevator shaft....oh god it's in the vents isn't it.it's always in the vents
Post by: Juniper on September 14, 2016, 12:16:43 AM
I didn't realize it was a head at first. I thought it was a foot with a really slimy, gross old sock on it. :-[
+10 points for creative interpretation :D
But I didn't realize on yesterday's page that it was coming from the elevator shaft they'd just come from. How long is that thing's neck D:
Post by: Buteo on September 14, 2016, 12:52:23 AM
But I didn't realize on yesterday's page that it was coming from the elevator shaft they'd just come from. How long is that thing's neck D:
Possibly long enough to have been poked through one of the other lighted openings we can see in the shot straight up the elevator shaft, and over to the elevator door opening.
Post by: Jethan on September 14, 2016, 01:36:26 AM
But I didn't realize on yesterday's page that it was coming from the elevator shaft they'd just come from. How long is that thing's neck D:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
I was doing alright until this. I hadn't realized it had followed them through the same shaft (I thought it came from another elevator...). I'm definitely not ready for a monster section again.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on September 14, 2016, 01:45:53 AM
Post by: Róisín on September 14, 2016, 02:32:05 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 14, 2016, 08:01:29 AM
What's the betting there's actually just one troll in the entire hospital? And it's a giant so big that it wears the main building like a shell, and Lalli just met one of its many sensory tentacles?
I would think it might follow a similar pattern to earlier encounters, insofar that there might be several smaller threat an a major one lurking in the depths.
Though, if there is a giant around, I would have thought Lalli would have gotten some form psychic feedback from it at this point.
Post by: urbicande on September 14, 2016, 08:40:32 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 14, 2016, 09:20:05 AM
So it appears to me that Lalli is more in standby mode. Observe and assess. I am pretty sure both Mikkel and Sigrun already presume that the place will be crawling with trolls. They may look like they are acting casual, but I am pretty sure they are also vigilant - notice for instance that there hasn't been dialogue since they have left the lobby.
Post by: Lazy8 on September 14, 2016, 09:23:27 AM
I'm kind of surprised that Lalli hasn't at least TRIED to say something to Sigrun and Mikkel, both of whom are taking this FAR too casually.
I mean, he already said he'd encountered "too many things alive" in his scouting report, and all of them went in there with the understanding that no matter where they go, there are going to be trolls. I take the reason for Lalli's silence to be the same reason that everyone was ignoring Kitty's hissing earlier: they know there's danger, but unless they're about to be attacked it's not worth Lalli's while to warn them about every single troll they encounter.
Post by: Yuuago on September 14, 2016, 09:43:07 AM
I mean, he already said he'd encountered "too many things alive" in his scouting report, and all of them went in there with the understanding that no matter where they go, there are going to be trolls. I take the reason for Lalli's silence to be the same reason that everyone was ignoring Kitty's hissing earlier: they know there's danger, but unless they're about to be attacked it's not worth Lalli's while to warn them about every single troll they encounter.
That's what I was thinking too. There's danger, and then there's danger; this is creepy but not quite that level yet.
Post by: urbicande on September 14, 2016, 09:55:44 AM
Post by: Windfighter on September 14, 2016, 10:09:02 AM
Yeah, but knowing there are trolls there and knowing that there are ACTIVE trolls there is something different. He COULD do what he did on page 164 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=164).
But on page 164 what he tried to communicate is "Something bad is breaking through AT THIS POINT", now he'd have to say "there's something spying on us but I don't really know where it is" and that's a lot harder to communicate by pointing at the roof... I mean he could probably do it by holding his hands to his eyes like a pair of binoculars, then gesture around and then shrugging, but I'm not sure how understandable that would be xD
Post by: VibratingText on September 14, 2016, 11:12:38 AM
What's the betting there's actually just one troll in the entire hospital? And it's a giant so big that it wears the main building like a shell, and Lalli just met one of its many sensory tentacles?
Have the Icelanders developed nuclear weapons yet?
Post by: Vafhudr on September 14, 2016, 02:23:57 PM
Have the Icelanders developed nuclear weapons yet?
Time to bring back that Thorium Salt expedition I vaguely recall being discussed a few months ago.
Post by: VibratingText on September 14, 2016, 06:40:57 PM
Time to bring back that Thorium Salt expedition I vaguely recall being discussed a few months ago.Though it may not actually take a nuke, depending on the size of the museum.
I wonder if Sweden has any Gripens left...
Post by: Kiraly on September 14, 2016, 07:47:05 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 14, 2016, 07:51:16 PM
Post by: Juniper on September 15, 2016, 12:54:50 AM
Post by: VibratingText on September 15, 2016, 08:12:34 AM
Things Mikkel is no longer allowed to do: Pick up
Post by: Kiraly on September 15, 2016, 08:21:20 AM
It is kind of precious that when Mikkel sees a shorter person than him struggling to see into something his first reaction is to pick them up to help them see better due to his "caretaker instinct" as Minna put it / (probably) being the oldest of a big family. But it's even cooler that when Lalli reacts adversely Mikkel is really chill about it and apologizes despite almosy getting punched. I feel like I know too many people IRL who would react adversely right back like "whoa dude I was just trying to help you calm down" but nah, not Mikkel, he understands a boundary was crossed and reacts accordingly.
YES YES THIS! He apologizes and says it won't happen again, which I think is just great. (Although it is funny to me that he thought Lalli wouldn't react badly to being picked up that way, because I actually have been grabbed from behind and picked up and I did NOT enjoy it!)
Post by: Vafhudr on September 15, 2016, 11:06:35 AM
Post by: Yuuago on September 15, 2016, 11:09:09 AM
One has to wonder if Mikkel's reaction comes from his family or from the fact that he now has a long historic of jobs lost because of, we presume, too much snark or crossing lines with superiors.
Probably a little bit of both.
Post by: JoB on September 18, 2016, 12:27:33 PM
What's the betting there's actually just one troll in the entire hospital?The entire hospital, I don't think so. The tunnels fail to connect to a number of buildings in the South, and I don't quite see such a large creature being held together by what can fit through waste water pipes. Spanning a couple buildings that are connected by said tunnels, on the other hand, why not ...
Post by: Basse on September 18, 2016, 05:52:51 PM
The entire hospital, I don't think so. The tunnels fail to connect to a number of buildings in the South, and I don't quite see such a large creature being held together by what can fit through waste water pipes. Spanning a couple buildings that are connected by said tunnels, on the other hand, why not ...
But wait! What if the hospital itself is one big giant?
Post by: VibratingText on September 18, 2016, 07:00:23 PM
But wait! What if the hospital itself is one big giant?Troll-tron?What me crazy? probably.
Post by: VibratingText on September 18, 2016, 08:57:35 PM
Post by: Buteo on September 18, 2016, 09:41:12 PM
Post by: Basse on September 18, 2016, 10:01:20 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 18, 2016, 10:28:36 PM
And possibly whatever abomination lurks within the confines of this hospital.
Post by: Lazy8 on September 18, 2016, 10:47:09 PM
Post by: VibratingText on September 18, 2016, 11:06:40 PM
If Sigrun looks eager, then Mikkel looks outright smug. Lalli still thinks they're all going to die.
Smug trumps eager. Mikkel will lose, at minimum, a finger.
Post by: VibratingText on September 19, 2016, 10:51:28 PM
Also, how come books barely survived, but the binders look intact? Hell most of that section looks clean compared to the entryway.
Too clean.
You know something? I think ghosts and monsters aren't the worst thing the expedition could find in an abandoned hospital.
Post by: Lazy8 on September 19, 2016, 10:58:49 PM
600 get.
Also, how come books barely survived, but the binders look intact? Hell most of that section looks clean compared to the entryway.
Too clean.
You know something? I think ghosts and monsters aren't the worst thing the expedition could find in an abandoned hospital.
Seems like what's survived has consistently depended on the storage conditions. The binders were shut away inside of protected metal cases, so naturally they're in better shape than books that were just sitting on shelves exposed to the elements for the past 90 years.
Post by: Solokov on September 19, 2016, 11:04:02 PM
600 get.
Also, how come books barely survived, but the binders look intact? Hell most of that section looks clean compared to the entryway.
Too clean.
You know something? I think ghosts and monsters aren't the worst thing the expedition could find in an abandoned hospital.
Just because the janitor became a draugr and kept at his job specifically in the stacks and only the stacks doesn't mean he'll be a problem.
... unless of course they tracked in mud, then It's on!
Post by: Athena on September 19, 2016, 11:55:48 PM
Just because the janitor became a draugr and kept at his job specifically in the stacks and only the stacks doesn't mean he'll be a problem.
... unless of course they tracked in mud, then It's on!
Really want to draw a draugr janitor now... I feel like this should happen and they will get attacked my the power of the mop.
Post by: Yuuago on September 20, 2016, 10:24:14 PM
asdlkfjkkkk FUUUUU EUGH GET IT AWAY.
It reminds me of a bug. Gross.
Post by: Solokov on September 20, 2016, 10:42:09 PM
Post by: VibratingText on September 20, 2016, 10:58:20 PM
And crawling on the ground like a roach... for some reason...
Post by: Fen Shen on September 21, 2016, 08:40:47 AM
Or I'm just too paranoid. We'll see eventually...
Post by: urbicande on September 21, 2016, 10:08:07 AM
Post by: Athena on September 21, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
The longer I keep looking at the first panel of page 601, the more convinced I am that there is another small troll like leaftroll (RIP) behind or at the side of the cupboard. That sure does look like spidery legs, and at the very bottom, one of those legs seems to go over the edge of the cupboard.
Or I'm just too paranoid. We'll see eventually...
I'm sure there's nothing there. Absolutely nothing~ :torbjorn:
Post by: Solokov on September 21, 2016, 11:51:47 PM
Post by: Juniper on September 23, 2016, 05:31:37 AM
Post by: Yuuago on September 23, 2016, 07:38:36 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 23, 2016, 09:02:54 AM
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/amnesia-dd-32_5196.jpg)
but like, crawling on the ground
Post by: VibratingText on September 23, 2016, 09:04:40 AM
Post by: urbicande on September 23, 2016, 09:49:06 AM
Post by: VibratingText on September 23, 2016, 10:02:09 AM
That would, I think, give the trolls more credit than we'd expect.
I dunno, we have wight-trolls that can stalk people long enough to perfectly memorize their path. An anglerfish-troll seems perfectly reasonable.
Post by: Lazy8 on September 23, 2016, 10:21:17 AM
He seems to have things pretty under control, buuuut we'll see how this goes. ("This looks like it's going to go okay" usually = "things are going to get messy a few pages later" fffffff)
Yeah, that. This time I'm not worried so much about someone getting hurt as this attack heralding bigger problems - Lalli's plenty quiet, but if this troll lets out a good shriek as it dies, attracting all sort of other problems...
Post by: Vafhudr on September 23, 2016, 11:13:52 AM
I dunno, we have wight-trolls that can stalk people long enough to perfectly memorize their path. An anglerfish-troll seems perfectly reasonable.
Idk it looks like it's acting pretty independently and doesn't seem attached to anything. It does seem to be some sort of stalker troll though. Unfortunately for him, Lalli is surprisingly alert for someone we could presume to be constantly sleep deprived.
Post by: Basse on September 23, 2016, 11:23:05 AM
but if this troll lets out a good shriek as it dies, attracting all sort of other problems...
Wilhelm scream? I kinda want it to be that.
Post by: Solokov on September 23, 2016, 11:56:17 AM
Wilhelm scream? I kinda want it to be that.
Sadly, even in a form of undeath the Wilhelm clan continues to be killed.
Post by: VibratingText on September 25, 2016, 09:14:44 PM
Post by: Yuuago on September 26, 2016, 08:08:44 AM
Post by: urbicande on September 26, 2016, 08:51:26 AM
Sigrun's comment about bringing Lalli back to Dalsnes made me want to see that actually happen... at least in a fic.
First they have to get out of Denmark alive
Post by: Róisín on September 26, 2016, 09:03:23 AM
Post by: Solokov on September 26, 2016, 09:12:56 AM
Post by: Yuuago on September 26, 2016, 09:53:08 PM
Post by: VibratingText on September 26, 2016, 09:57:59 PM
Post by: Athena on September 26, 2016, 10:11:34 PM
Regarding today's update: WELL, I wasn't planning to sleep tonight anyway....
O_O Me either... *curls up in blanket fort and munches on shortbread, terrified*
Post by: Purple Wyrm on September 26, 2016, 10:19:17 PM
AAAAAARRRGHGHGHGGHGHGHGHGGHHGHHGHHHGHHGHGHGHHHHGHHHHHHGHHGHGHGHGH!!!!!!
That is all.
Post by: Solokov on September 26, 2016, 10:33:27 PM
Post by: Kelpie on September 26, 2016, 11:01:52 PM
Quote from: Purple Wyrm
In reference to today's pageOh good, someone said it so I didn't have to.
AAAAAARRRGHGHGHGGHGHGHGHGGHHGHHGHHHGHHGHGHGHHHHGHHHHHHGHHGHGHGHGH!!!!!!
That is all.
Quote from: Solokov
If that's today's page the heck are we going to get for Friday?Hopefully everyone alive and happy in the cattank.
Post by: VibratingText on September 26, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
If that's today's page the heck are we going to get for Friday?
The troll chasing after the cat tank, wearing the hospital like a crumbling turtle shell?
Post by: Kiraly on September 26, 2016, 11:12:11 PM
...and that is all I have to say about today's page.
Post by: Athena on September 26, 2016, 11:28:37 PM
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/3b7ddec672be26be90e89dba0e9d5fb4/tumblr_oe57ickXSL1qjas7jo1_540.png)
...and that is all I have to say about today's page.
The troll chasing after the cat tank, wearing the hospital like a crumbling turtle shell?(https://36.media.tumblr.com/f76a859813e0b67b9f3cbde5a17dde93/tumblr_inline_nlztib1c711r2g2kx_500.png)
...please no
Post by: Kelpie on September 26, 2016, 11:42:07 PM
Quote from: VibratingText
The troll chasing after the cat tank, wearing the hospital like a crumbling turtle shell?*imagines snail-pace chase as the troll pulls an entire building behind it with the cattank absconding at granny-speed*
Post by: Jethan on September 27, 2016, 12:10:07 AM
*imagines snail-pace chase as the troll pulls an entire building behind it with the cattank absconding at granny-speed*
*Applauds*
Post by: Tr on September 27, 2016, 07:05:03 AM
*imagines snail-pace chase as the troll pulls an entire building behind it with the cattank absconding at granny-speed*Pffffhahahaha. ;D
But seriously, you guys... it has a skull in its mouth. It has a skull in its horrifying tubelike teeth-filled mouth. Every time I look at this thing I discover a new layer of nope.
Post by: VibratingText on September 27, 2016, 07:50:24 AM
*imagines snail-pace chase as the troll pulls an entire building behind it with the cattank absconding at granny-speed*
With this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ) playing in the background of course.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 27, 2016, 08:14:06 AM
With this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ) playing in the background of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewxyxByJPP0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewxyxByJPP0)
Post by: urbicande on September 27, 2016, 08:23:59 AM
So very many skulls.
I hereby name this particular one "Dana Skully"
Post by: Yuuago on September 27, 2016, 09:56:25 AM
I hereby name this particular one "Dana Skully"
/WHEEZE
It's horrible, but oh my god. : D
Post by: Athena on September 27, 2016, 10:08:58 AM
So many skulls.
So very many skulls.
I hereby name this particular one "Dana Skully"
:haw: that is the puniest name, and it's perfect!
Post by: Solokov on September 27, 2016, 10:45:39 AM
That's no troll...it's a
Post by: Vafhudr on September 27, 2016, 10:53:52 AM
On the other hand, it does look a lot like this:
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=158 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=158)
Post by: Double H on September 27, 2016, 02:23:31 PM
Post by: urbicande on September 27, 2016, 04:18:22 PM
It's just skulls all the way down.
Your avatar is disturbingly appropriate.
Post by: Ragnarok on September 27, 2016, 04:19:41 PM
It's just skulls all the way down.
I mean, given the randomized way trolls and giants are made, an entirely-skull one was inevitable....does this mean there's trolls made entirely of, say, feet?
Post by: Athena on September 27, 2016, 04:32:01 PM
I mean, given the randomized way trolls and giants are made, an entirely-skull one was inevitable....does this mean there's trolls made entirely of, say, feet?
What about arms? just a mass of grabbing, pulling limbs. O_O Although, from what we've seen so far every troll/giant has to have a "viable head", so it couldn't be made entirely of, say, feet.
Post by: Johannabelle on September 27, 2016, 04:51:08 PM
What about arms? just a mass of grabbing, pulling limbs. O_O Although, from what we've seen so far every troll/giant has to have a "viable head", so it couldn't be made entirely of, say, feet.But couldn't a troll/giant's head just be completely surrounded by limbs to the point where it looks like it's entirely made of limbs? I personally want to see this. :P
Post by: Athena on September 27, 2016, 05:01:57 PM
But couldn't a troll/giant's head just be completely surrounded by limbs to the point where it looks like it's entirely made of limbs? I personally want to see this. :P
But then it wouldn't be able to see. So it would just feel it's way along, and engulf anything in it's path... Yeah I need to see this.
Post by: Johannabelle on September 27, 2016, 05:36:27 PM
But then it wouldn't be able to see. So it would just feel it's way along, and engulf anything in it's path... Yeah I need to see this.(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/Jobella01/arm%20troll_zpsbhniw467.png)
Does this provide sufficient nightmares?
Post by: VibratingText on September 27, 2016, 06:06:06 PM
Post by: Double H on September 27, 2016, 07:05:34 PM
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/Jobella01/arm%20troll_zpsbhniw467.png)Oh god imagine meeting this in a dark abandoned building.
Does this provide sufficient nightmares?
Not being able to see, smell or hear it just crawls about feeling around with all of it's arms and when it thinks it got something it can consume it pulls it violently towards whatever it uses to consume things. And that's the last thing you feel, hundreds of arms ripping you apart.
Uhm, I think I'm getting carried away here. hey
Post by: Vafhudr on September 27, 2016, 07:19:51 PM
Ever seen Steven Universe? You know the Shattered Gem Fusions? That's what I imagine giants are like, especially if they do have some form of sapience.
Considering that some of the bigger ones are fusions of people.
Inversedly, following the idea that the rash is some sort of cancerous tumor, it could be doing this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratoma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratoma)
Post by: Róisín on September 27, 2016, 10:23:17 PM
Post by: Kelpie on September 27, 2016, 10:28:23 PM
Quote from: Johannabelle
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/Jobella01/arm%20troll_zpsbhniw467.png)UUHhh, yes.
Does this provide sufficient nightmares?
Post by: Solokov on September 27, 2016, 11:52:48 PM
Post by: Yuuago on September 28, 2016, 12:49:44 AM
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/Jobella01/arm%20troll_zpsbhniw467.png)
Does this provide sufficient nightmares?
YES. YES IT DOES. D:
Post by: Kelpie on September 28, 2016, 01:13:28 AM
Quote from: Yuuago
Hopefully it will turn out that those documents weren't actually that useful. (Because like, they're covered in troll now....)They were probably all about golf, anyways.
Post by: Minutia_R on September 28, 2016, 01:53:52 AM
Hopefully it will turn out that those documents weren't actually that useful. (Because like, they're covered in troll now....)
Tuuri can still transcribe them! ... after they've been left out in the sun to disinfect them for a bit.
You're not a real skald until your documents are covered in troll goop.
Post by: Róisín on September 28, 2016, 03:42:27 AM
Post by: Mélusine on September 28, 2016, 07:25:31 AM
Post by: Yuuago on September 28, 2016, 07:47:39 AM
It's time to give Mikkel a shovel. Or something like that. (After all, Emil had used a lantern to hit a troll...)
: D Yeah, I bet he could do some real damage with one of those!
Post by: Vafhudr on September 28, 2016, 09:10:04 AM
Post by: urbicande on September 28, 2016, 09:16:44 AM
Standard side arm issues for soldiers really should be more than just a little knife.
Sigrun has a rifle, but she's (oddly) not carrying it ready to fire the way I'd expect her to be.
Post by: Ragnarok on September 28, 2016, 09:24:29 AM
Sigrun has a rifle, but she's (oddly) not carrying it ready to fire the way I'd expect her to be.
Well, a gunshot in Troll Central would be a death sentence....
Post by: urbicande on September 28, 2016, 01:01:54 PM
Well, a gunshot in Troll Central would be a death sentence....
Perhaps. If you're dead because you're trying to take on a giant with a knife it doesn't matter.
Post by: Miriam on September 28, 2016, 01:42:37 PM
Ever seen Steven Universe? You know the Shattered Gem Fusions? That's what I imagine giants are like, especially if they do have some form of sapience.
Yes... I've been associating trolls with shattered gems fusions for a while. Especially since that episode in which Steven visits the cluster with Peridot.
Post by: Lazy8 on September 28, 2016, 02:20:34 PM
Perhaps. If you're dead because you're trying to take on a giant with a knife it doesn't matter.
From the way she reacted, though, I'd guess that Sigrun does know how to take on a giant with a knife - she's a professional and still alive, so I'd say that warrants some faith in her fighting abilities. Plus logically, even if she does get killed she'll still have bought her teammates some time to get away, whereas the noise of a gunshot would have brought attackers down on all of their heads.
Post by: VibratingText on September 28, 2016, 11:29:11 PM
Also Mikkel's ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ face.
Post by: Yuuago on September 29, 2016, 07:27:23 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 29, 2016, 08:32:17 AM
Post by: Miriam on September 29, 2016, 01:47:45 PM
Look, Lalli and Emil are matching: they're leaning on each other's backs.
Post by: Solokov on September 29, 2016, 02:02:09 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 29, 2016, 04:31:20 PM
Post by: VibratingText on September 29, 2016, 11:22:12 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on September 30, 2016, 01:28:38 AM
I notice that Mikkel "sometimes trying is not the most beneficial course of action" Madsen is not trying to inject any sense into this situation either. Not that it would likely work if he did, I'm just saying. (Probably he just doesn't want to be accused of mutiny again. Not that he's as crazy in his own way as Sigrun is in hers, nope.)
Meanwhile, tell Lalli to chase and catch something and he will chase and catch the thing. Poor old Lalli.
Post by: Yuuago on October 02, 2016, 03:43:50 PM
I think some of us saw this coming. : D
Post by: Anna on October 02, 2016, 04:17:31 PM
So Mikkel has a twin brother (http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/151251791300/well-well-somehow-i-finished-drawing-todays)Yup. I'm only slightly disappointed that his twin is a brother named Michael and not a sister named Mikkela.
I think some of us saw this coming. : D
Post by: JoB on October 02, 2016, 04:26:41 PM
I mean, given the randomized way trolls and giants are made, an entirely-skull one was inevitable....does this mean there's trolls made entirely of, say, feet?On a totally unrelated note, why (oh why, says the punster) does English use the singular in expressions like "Attack of the 50 Foot Woman (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051380/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_1)"?
What about arms? just a mass of grabbing, pulling limbs.I'ld say that that'ld impinge on Handsy Moose's turf ...
Post by: Miriam on October 02, 2016, 04:30:17 PM
So Mikkel has a twin brother (http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/151251791300/well-well-somehow-i-finished-drawing-todays)
I think some of us saw this coming. : D
Hmmh, it's really cool that we have some more clearness about why Mikkel said 'technically' and it's nice artwork, but I think it's too bad my initial headcanon isn't correct.
Post by: Piney on October 02, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
So Mikkel has a twin brother (http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/151251791300/well-well-somehow-i-finished-drawing-todays)
I think some of us saw this coming. : D
I'm so glad Mikkel has a twin because I'm a multiple (triplet, not twin, but still) and I already related to him a lot, but now it's like... perfect. :haw:
Post by: Róisín on October 02, 2016, 05:56:26 PM
Post by: VibratingText on October 02, 2016, 06:29:38 PM
Post by: Johannabelle on October 02, 2016, 07:09:03 PM
That's way too small to be a giant. And that underside looks real soft...I think it might just be a troll that has grown extra skulls? As opposed to a giant made of multiple people. I'm not sure if that's even possible, but if trolls can grow extra limbs then they can probably have some more skulls too.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 02, 2016, 07:31:24 PM
Post by: Solokov on October 02, 2016, 09:26:47 PM
That's way too small to be a giant. And that underside looks real soft...
Psuedogiant.
Post by: Róisín on October 02, 2016, 09:46:51 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on October 02, 2016, 10:07:59 PM
Post by: Kiraly on October 02, 2016, 10:24:53 PM
So Mikkel has a twin brother (http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/151251791300/well-well-somehow-i-finished-drawing-todays)
I think some of us saw this coming. : D
I know I sure did (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=462#comment-2488937330)! (Well, I was hoping for a sister, but oh well.)
I'm beyond excited that we're getting little glimpses at family stuff. :))
Post by: JoB on October 03, 2016, 07:02:37 AM
That's way too small to be a giant. And that underside looks real soft...Just you wait 'til Lalli cuts that underside open and allows Clusterface to fold out and inflate to its final form ... :P
If Michael has the same sense of humour as Mikkel it's a miracle Bornholm hasn't sunk beneath the waves.... maaaaaaybe the palisades that we saw line the coast of Bornholm are actually not meant to keep the sea beasts out?
Post by: PickleChip on October 03, 2016, 06:03:10 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/4CASjLQ.png)
Well, well, somehow I finished drawing today’s comic page hours faster than expected, so here’s an impromptu drawing of Mikkel with his “technically” older brother Michael. Yes, twins.
http://sssscomic.tumblr.com/post/151251791300/well-well-somehow-i-finished-drawing-todays
Post by: Basse on October 03, 2016, 07:15:53 PM
Quote
this is NOPECON 2, repeat not a drill! we are at NOPECON 2!
Post by: VibratingText on October 03, 2016, 07:20:43 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 03, 2016, 08:03:45 PM
This update is 2spooky.
2spooky4me!
Post by: JacobThomsen on October 04, 2016, 08:36:49 AM
2spooky4me!
2spooky4me2!
Post by: Solokov on October 04, 2016, 10:16:33 AM
Post by: Yuuago on October 04, 2016, 10:24:23 AM
I believe it's time to leave the spooky murder factory.
Miiiight be an idea, yes.
I doubt it would be easy, though. x_x Even if an attempt was made.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 04, 2016, 10:49:42 AM
I believe it's time to leave the spooky murder factory.
Not without all that cash money.
Post by: VibratingText on October 04, 2016, 03:41:51 PM
Post by: Solokov on October 04, 2016, 11:28:25 PM
Post by: Minutia_R on October 04, 2016, 11:50:47 PM
....That ward is either going to work as intended, or Aggro all the ghosts.
There was some speculation when Reynir was handing them out that it might attract ghosts rather than repel them--if so, Lalli just did the right thing with it. Ghost trap!
Post by: Lazy8 on October 05, 2016, 12:20:32 AM
There was some speculation when Reynir was handing them out that it might attract ghosts rather than repel them--if so, Lalli just did the right thing with it. Ghost trap!
...okay, now I'm just worried for the other members of the crew, who also have those runes in their pockets and have potentially just become ghost magnets...
Post by: Minutia_R on October 05, 2016, 12:53:37 AM
Post by: Buteo on October 05, 2016, 12:55:11 AM
...okay, now I'm just worried for the other members of the crew, who also have those runes in their pockets and have potentially just become ghost magnets...
Oh, glurk....
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 05, 2016, 02:44:43 AM
(If anyone calls I'm taking shelter in the pillow fort 'til this whole thing blows over...)
Post by: Vafhudr on October 05, 2016, 08:45:49 AM
Post by: Yuuago on October 05, 2016, 10:07:41 AM
I'm sure Reynir-the-totally-untrained-mage's totally improvised hacked together and basically completely made up magical symbol will work just perfectly!
(If anyone calls I'm taking shelter in the pillow fort 'til this whole thing blows over...)
Yes.
Let's pretend this will happen. ; )
Post by: VibratingText on October 05, 2016, 10:10:50 AM
The piece of paper should have followed piece-of-paper-physics and flung itself back at Lalli unhelpfully.
Lalli is clearly an expert at throwing pieces of paper.
Post by: Miriam on October 05, 2016, 02:00:22 PM
But because they're laughing, they're distracted, so it functions anyway.
Post by: JoB on October 05, 2016, 02:05:42 PM
Lalli is clearly an expert at throwing pieces of paper.Gamb (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambit_(comics))alli? ;)
Post by: Double H on October 05, 2016, 07:31:12 PM
Post by: VibratingText on October 05, 2016, 08:55:56 PM
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/005/600/its-something.jpg)
Post by: Ragnarok on October 05, 2016, 09:01:33 PM
Congratulations, Reynir. You made a... lighter.
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/005/600/its-something.jpg)
I think it's more along the lines of the ghosts overpowering the rune. It can't keep them back, thus it burns.
Though it would be hilarious if it actually was a fire-starting spell...
Post by: Solokov on October 05, 2016, 09:34:36 PM
Granted now I'm considering alternate uses for this rune, possibly for forge welding metal.
this may require more testing.
Post by: Ragnarok on October 05, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
It clearly needs to be carved in stone to work. Paper is a poor medium for spell work because it easily catches fire.
Granted now I'm considering alternate uses for this rune, possibly for forge welding metal.
this may require more testing.
Actually, that makes sense...clearly, magical rune glows involve heat being made, like any lightbulb, so you'd have to carve them into a non-flammable substance....
Post by: Tr on October 05, 2016, 09:49:03 PM
It clearly needs to be carved in stone to work. Paper is a poor medium for spell work because it easily catches fire.
Granted now I'm considering alternate uses for this rune, possibly for forge welding metal.
this may require more testing.
Actually, that makes sense...clearly, magical rune glows involve heat being made, like any lightbulb, so you'd have to carve them into a non-flammable substance....Hmm, yes. I wonder what would happen if he scratched a rune in plastic or glass: would the material melt? Would it simply not work at all because the gods would reject the material the rune was written on? How about metal? Would copper conduct magical energy like electricity? Does magic even work like that?
I also wonder what would have happened had he actually painted the rune in blood. Would it have been more useful, or just more gross? :P
Post by: Ragnarok on October 05, 2016, 09:56:10 PM
Hmm, yes. I wonder what would happen if he scratched a rune in plastic or glass: would the material melt? Would it simply not work at all because the gods would reject the material the rune was written on? How about metal? Would copper conduct magical energy like electricity? Does magic even work like that?
I also wonder what would have happened had he actually painted the rune in blood. Would it have been more useful, or just more gross? :P
If it did, I think what we'd see of Iceland would be a distinctly more magitech society...or maybe Sweden would work that way.
Spoiler: rampant speculation • show
Post by: VibratingText on October 05, 2016, 10:21:36 PM
If it did, I think what we'd see of Iceland would be a distinctly more magitech society...or maybe Sweden would work that way.Spoiler: rampant speculation • show
They should paint it with troll blood then. You know, to make it go faster.
Post by: Ragnarok on October 05, 2016, 10:25:31 PM
They should paint it with troll blood then. You know, to make it go faster.
I believe the Dalahasten saws can fulfill this function, given a breach in the fence and a sufficiently acrobatic troll.
Post by: Solokov on October 05, 2016, 11:33:35 PM
I believe the Dalahasten saws can fulfill this function, given a breach in the fence and a sufficiently acrobatic troll.
But there's no fence around the Dalahasten, hence the need for the saws. That's the regular commuter railways that have the Jurassic park style fencing.
Post by: Róisín on October 06, 2016, 12:05:38 AM
Runes can also be engraved into the metal of a weapon or tool, carved into the door, lintel or foundations of a building, carved or painted on a container to affect whatever is in it, and so forth. For example, a grain chest might be marked with runes against decay or to keep mice out. Our local Ásatru godi has a meadhorn used for communal feasts, which he has carved with the runes for peace, accord and good fellowship - very necessary, his folk are a rambunctious lot!
Post by: JoB on October 06, 2016, 09:10:51 AM
so you'd have to carve them into a non-flammable substance....To the contrary. Hand Reynir a paintbrush and let him write that rune right onto the ghosts while they're still un-armed!
Aaaaaah it burns get it off GETITOFF!
Post by: urbicande on October 06, 2016, 10:01:20 AM
To the contrary. Hand Reynir a paintbrush and let him write that rune right onto the ghosts while they're still un-armed!
Aaaaaah it burns get it off GETITOFF!
If you really just need to have the runes stuck to the ghost to have them work, you just have to carry a little spirit gum.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on October 06, 2016, 07:00:41 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on October 06, 2016, 09:38:36 PM
Post by: VibratingText on October 06, 2016, 10:56:58 PM
Quote
Oh! Right!
Oh Sigrun. :sigrun:
Post by: Vafhudr on October 11, 2016, 03:00:06 PM
Post by: VibratingText on October 11, 2016, 10:22:43 PM
Too anticlimactic.
[muffled Shingeki no Kyojin in the distance]
So how big do y'all think the giant will be?
Post by: Ragnarok on October 11, 2016, 10:31:42 PM
That was anticlimactic.
Too anticlimactic.
[muffled Shingeki no Kyojin in the distance]
So how big do y'all think the giant will be?
We're forgetting the Wild Hunt....ooh, will it fight the hospital ghosts?
Post by: Vafhudr on October 11, 2016, 11:14:31 PM
But hey. They are calling in for extraction. Now is a great time for things to go really really wrong. Unless they get to go back to base and have tea.
If that's the plan we'll have to wait for the second expedition for the bigger stuff.
Post by: Yuuago on October 12, 2016, 07:52:19 AM
Post by: Juniper on October 15, 2016, 11:02:51 AM
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/Jobella01/arm%20troll_zpsbhniw467.png)
Does this provide sufficient nightmares?
So I dug this back up because I just remembered that this is really similar to a nightmare I had maybe three or four-ish years ago ? It was a creepy monochrome mess of tangled limbs like that, except like an entire wall instead of just a wad like that, and there was a giant eyeball in the center of it.
Post by: Jethan on October 15, 2016, 05:50:47 PM
So I dug this back up because I just remembered that this is really similar to a nightmare I had maybe three or four-ish years ago ? It was a creepy monochrome mess of tangled limbs like that, except like an entire wall instead of just a wad like that, and there was a giant eyeball in the center of it.
Horror game boss fight? Stab it in the eye quick!
And! And! FLASHBACK!!!!!!
I am so excited for it even though it will probably spell out Doom for everyone.
Post by: Solokov on October 17, 2016, 11:03:50 AM
Post by: urbicande on October 17, 2016, 11:28:38 AM
So someone noticed the military uniform being worn in today's update is one that was phased out in 2010/2011, though I don't have any info as to when it was introduced.
Interesting. How different is the current one?
Post by: Solokov on October 17, 2016, 11:54:05 AM
Interesting. How different is the current one?
No idea.
Post by: Aierdome on October 17, 2016, 12:15:26 PM
So someone noticed the military uniform being worn in today's update is one that was phased out in 2010/2011, though I don't have any info as to when it was introduced.
Interesting. Could the military-man be from the army reserve?
Also, I've been trying to decipher his rank, and all I can tell you is that he's either lieutenant-general or colonel. It's kind of hard to tell, because generals have golden insignia, colonels have silver, and the page is in shades of grey. Anyone has any idea?
Interesting. How different is the current one?
You've piqued my curiosity with this question enough that I've actually went looking... and it's bizzarely hard to find what the current Danish dress uniform looks like. Best I can give you is this:
(http://cphpost.dk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/v%C3%A6rnepligtige-591x390.jpg)
Post by: Vafhudr on October 17, 2016, 12:33:46 PM
Post by: Keeper on October 17, 2016, 01:34:09 PM
I mean, whatever discordance there is can be chalked up to the fact that in a post-apocalyptic scenario the last thing the danish army had time to do was to redesign it's uniform.
Perhaps they had to bring some vets out of retirement, and it was easier to have them wear their old uniforms?
Maybe they switched to the old design because there were some left over that after a while were in better condition than what they currently wore?
These are some very loose guesses, oh well.
Post by: urbicande on October 17, 2016, 04:23:34 PM
I mean, whatever discordance there is can be chalked up to the fact that in a post-apocalyptic scenario the last thing the danish army had time to do was to redesign it's uniform.
Don't be ridiculous. If you can't look good for the end of the world, then there's something wrong!
Post by: Pupunen on October 18, 2016, 01:14:42 AM
Post by: Solokov on October 18, 2016, 01:45:03 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on October 18, 2016, 01:51:08 AM
So we know that the Icelandic coast guard murdered refugees, and now it looks like the Danish army distributed a lethal drug claiming that it was a cure for the illness. I wonder what nasty secrets the other countries of the Known World have in their past.
I could definitely see the first Hunters learning their trade by killing people who'd once been their friends... possibly straight out of quarantine, right after they'd become trolls. Can you imagine what Dalsnes must have been like in the early years?
Post by: Possib on October 18, 2016, 02:28:32 AM
So we know that the Icelandic coast guard murdered refugees, and now it looks like the Danish army distributed a lethal drug claiming that it was a cure for the illness. I wonder what nasty secrets the other countries of the Known World have in their past.
I can't imagine that its a secret that Iceland killed people trying to get in
I wouldn't put it past the Russians, Chinese and American governments activating paveway protocol (bombardment from various heavy bombers) on population centers that had been overrun by mutated infected, possibly even napalm and even glassing some of the worst sites with atomics.
By the point where trolls were happening, there wouldn't be enough military in any of these places to care about firebombing cities, especially when you could die of the infection just as easily in the other 99% of the country
Post by: Vafhudr on October 18, 2016, 06:31:52 AM
Post by: Aierdome on October 18, 2016, 07:14:42 AM
Post by: urbicande on October 18, 2016, 09:02:48 AM
I can't imagine that its a secret that Iceland killed people trying to get in
If I were Iceland I'd be broadcasting it loud and clear that they were doing that.
Hm, an odd thought - could the serum be somehow connected to ghosts? They've been popping up ever since the cure sub-plot has begun, and we haven't seen them anywhere beyond Denmark (granted, that could be just narrative convenience). And beyond that, the doctor states clearly that there's no known reason for the cure to cause brain death, so perhaps they've stumbled upon something magical?
Absolutely. In fact, given what I've posited about the Illness having to be magical in nature, I'd say that's a certainty. It also means that Denmark probably has a lot more nasty ghosts than the team originally thought.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 18, 2016, 09:11:30 AM
To draw a comparison, for those who have read the His Dark Material trilogy, perhaps the serum caused a situation similar to what the Guillotine did. The ghosts are the spirits physically severed from the body, causing brain death physically and condemnation to wander as a ghost spiritually. Or to use the idea of finnish folklore according to which some parts of your soul can take a hike, now it can't enter back in.
Post by: Windfighter on October 18, 2016, 09:12:54 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/KedR8Nx.png)
and we can also assume they have ghosts in Finland based on
(http://i.imgur.com/WO4ljbi.png)
And they're probably also available in Norway based on Sigrun's reaction when Reynir mentioned ghosts. Look at her being all serious
(http://i.imgur.com/q93l99D.png)
and then straight to the necessary information:
(http://i.imgur.com/v8EGjzM.png)
so ghost are not necessarily born from use of the serum. On the other hand we can guess that the use of the serum might be what have caused the ghosts to remain for so long, based on a certain comment from Onni:
(http://i.imgur.com/EZ0IhY0.png)
so... uh... I don't really know where I'm going with this buuuut... maybe the serum is connected to the state of the ghosts more than the fact there is ghosts. So far it has seemed that the Serum Ghosts are more angry and linger on longer than the Normal Ghosts, and why shouldn't they be angry? They were treated with something that was supposed to be a cure, but instead killed them. Brain dead, so maybe they even had to sit there and watch as their bodies was kept alive, knowing fully well they'd never be able to return to them. I dunno, I'm not sure how brain death works.
Post by: Solokov on October 18, 2016, 11:25:19 AM
By the point where trolls were happening, there wouldn't be enough military in any of these places to care about firebombing cities, especially when you could die of the infection just as easily in the other 99% of the country
Eh... there were enough left in Denmark to bomb out the area where the crew currently is. The area honestly looks less "90 years of wear and tear" and more "90 years of wear and tear after a couple artillery bombardments."
As for not enough military remaining, it's hard to say. I do know that there are trainings and contingency plans put out by the pentagon that cover scenarios like this. Generally speaking anyone on patrol would be in full CBRNE kit and would have to go through decon. I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't figure out a test for immunity pretty quick (probably something straightforward like take a blood sample and introduce rash'd cells and see if they infect under a microscope). That and some of the air bases that would ultimately get converted into bases of operations are WAAAY out there.
For those that aren't in the Western US or used to these distances we're talking along the lines of Bethesda to Providence at a minimum to the nearest "population center", or for the Europeans on board Paris to Frankfurt with no major integrated rail systems... well unless you buy into that hyper-loop underground along the 38th parallel conspiracy garbage.
Post by: Róisín on October 18, 2016, 12:20:23 PM
Post by: VibratingText on October 18, 2016, 12:26:27 PM
I wouldn't put it past the Russians, Chinese and American governments activating paveway protocol (bombardment from various heavy bombers) on population centers that had been overrun by mutated infected, possibly even napalm and even glassing some of the worst sites with atomics.
I know for a fact that the moment trolls started appearing this would happen, at least in America.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 18, 2016, 12:53:35 PM
My understanding though is that I think government would probably prefer going into full reconquista mindset rather than final nuclear solution in most cases.
Of course, some government might be less far-sighted or interested in the survival of the species to take such things into consideration.
Post by: urbicande on October 18, 2016, 01:01:18 PM
Well, we know they have ghosts in Iceland, or can at least pretty safetly say so because
(http://i.imgur.com/KedR8Nx.png)
Sure, although ghosts don't necessarily equal spirits.
Post by: Lazy8 on October 18, 2016, 01:24:59 PM
Well, we know they have ghosts in Iceland, or can at least pretty safetly say so because
(http://i.imgur.com/KedR8Nx.png)
and we can also assume they have ghosts in Finland based on
(http://i.imgur.com/WO4ljbi.png)
And they're probably also available in Norway based on Sigrun's reaction when Reynir mentioned ghosts. Look at her being all serious
(http://i.imgur.com/q93l99D.png)
and then straight to the necessary information:
(http://i.imgur.com/v8EGjzM.png)
so ghost are not necessarily born from use of the serum. On the other hand we can guess that the use of the serum might be what have caused the ghosts to remain for so long, based on a certain comment from Onni:
(http://i.imgur.com/EZ0IhY0.png)
so... uh... I don't really know where I'm going with this buuuut... maybe the serum is connected to the state of the ghosts more than the fact there is ghosts. So far it has seemed that the Serum Ghosts are more angry and linger on longer than the Normal Ghosts, and why shouldn't they be angry? They were treated with something that was supposed to be a cure, but instead killed them. Brain dead, so maybe they even had to sit there and watch as their bodies was kept alive, knowing fully well they'd never be able to return to them. I dunno, I'm not sure how brain death works.
Oh yeah, we know that there are ghosts elsewhere, based on everything that you mentioned above (though I'd argue that Reynir doesn't know the difference between nature spirits and departed human souls, so the spirits he mentioned having seen before could have been the former). I think that what people have been guessing is that it's thanks to the serum that the ghosts in Denmark are so numerous, so angry, and have stuck around for so long. Other places have ghosts, but from some of the things that Onni said a ghost infestation is practically unheard of in the Known World.
Post by: Windfighter on October 18, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Sure, although ghosts don't necessarily equal spirits.
On the other hand the ghosts were call spirits on numerous occasions. But, uh... I guess the characters could be wrong. I'm just working with what I've seen in the comic :P
Oh yeah, we know that there are ghosts elsewhere, based on everything that you mentioned above (though I'd argue that Reynir doesn't know the difference between nature spirits and departed human souls, so the spirits he mentioned having seen before could have been the former). I think that what people have been guessing is that it's thanks to the serum that the ghosts in Denmark are so numerous, so angry, and have stuck around for so long. Other places have ghosts, but from some of the things that Onni said a ghost infestation is practically unheard of in the Known World.Yes, thank you Lazy8! It was mostly an answer to
Hm, an odd thought - could the serum be somehow connected to ghosts? They've been popping up ever since the cure sub-plot has begun, and we haven't seen them anywhere beyond Denmark (granted, that could be just narrative convenience).because that comment sounded like the phenomenon of ghosts overall was unheard of anywhere else. I may have just interpreted the message wrong though and in that case I apologize *bows*
alsooo, uhm... Reynir wasn't able to see nature spirits, so it's a pretty safe bet it was departed human souls he encounters, isn't it?
Post by: Lazy8 on October 18, 2016, 01:59:18 PM
alsooo, uhm... Reynir wasn't able to see nature spirits, so it's a pretty safe bet it was departed human souls he encounters, isn't it?
I think Minna said somewhere that spirits in Iceland are capable of choosing whether to show themselves to humans, magic or not? I might be misremembering, though.
Post by: Windfighter on October 18, 2016, 02:48:14 PM
I think Minna said somewhere that spirits in Iceland are capable of choosing whether to show themselves to humans, magic or not? I might be misremembering, though.
It took me 20 minutes to find it, but I have finally located the comment you're talking about! I had not seen it before.
For the curious, here (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_419/#comment-2361693057):
Quote from: Minna Sundberg
Icelandic spirits are known to show themselves to people now and then, encountering some isn't a telltale sign of being an Icelandic mage.It was however an answer to this comment:
But Reynir being a mage might let him see spirits that aren't deliberately trying to show themselves to you. And how many he can see and what he can do to interact with them is still different from what Lalli can do. But of course we won't know a whole lot more about that before we get further into the story.:3
Quote from: Quabus
So Reynir has seen ghosts before, but doesn't know he's a mage? Odd.sooo... uh... That does kinda point to him having encountered ghosts before, doesn't it? I mean, otherwise wouldn't the answer have been "Not ghosts but Icelandic spirits yadda yadda"?
Post by: Solokov on October 18, 2016, 02:51:54 PM
The only problem with such an attitude I can see is that high density target area tend to also be areas of high agricultural value or high value period. Such a move would basically mean that there is no hope of retaking the areas, ever and it's better to burn it all.
High population density.... equals ag area..... wha?.... maybe in the east but west of the mississippi heavy ag use is generally rural with low population densities.
Additionally fallout mostly depends on the type of bomb and how it's deployed.
Post by: urbicande on October 18, 2016, 03:06:54 PM
and have stuck around for so long. Other places have ghosts, but from some of the things that Onni said a ghost infestation is practically unheard of in the Known World.
I'd even posit that it's completely unknown, at least in terms of hordes of murderghosts.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 18, 2016, 04:04:25 PM
High population density.... equals ag area..... wha?.... maybe in the east but west of the mississippi heavy ag use is generally rural with low population densities.
Additionally fallout mostly depends on the type of bomb and how it's deployed.
Most metropolitan areas were built around places of pretty high land value - as in good or rather low effort farmland. Perhaps it is different in the US, but in Canada population centers tend to be smack dab in the best arable land in the country. Deploying a nuke against such centers would therefore almost automatically compromise the arable high value land around it. Prairie farmland notwithstanding due to generally low population in general.
Post by: Solokov on October 18, 2016, 05:30:20 PM
Most metropolitan areas were built around places of pretty high land value - as in good or rather low effort farmland. Perhaps it is different in the US, but in Canada population centers tend to be smack dab in the best arable land in the country. Deploying a nuke against such centers would therefore almost automatically compromise the arable high value land around it. Prairie farmland notwithstanding due to generally low population in general.
Down in the U.S. in the west, generally our population centers are where potable water was in large quantities, and while there was decent ag land around, the majority of our high production agriculture land isn't near those cities and we've got a stupidly complex water delivery system for it all. Lots of smaller towns spread out across the rural areas. And then the air bases are built even further out from the population centers.
Now the east coast is an overbuilt mess and a death-trap.. then again that's my assessment of LA, San Francisco and Sacramento as well.
Regardless nuclear weapons would be something of an absolute last resort and stuff like thermobarics would be deployed much sooner than that.
Post by: Possib on October 19, 2016, 12:00:29 AM
Eh... there were enough left in Denmark to bomb out the area where the crew currently is. The area honestly looks less "90 years of wear and tear" and more "90 years of wear and tear after a couple artillery bombardments."
There's no evidence at all of explosions or artillery, those holes in the buildings are 90 years of wear and tear in a wet country. That probably would've burned down the entire area, and if the hospital was one of the last known "safe" areas, they'd have no reason to destroy it even after it fell to disease.
As for the rest of the military, they'd have collapsing command structure by the point of widespread societal collapse, and the small groups left over would be much more worried about finding food and escaping the cities than burning them down.
Regardless nuclear weapons would be something of an absolute last resort and stuff like thermobarics would be deployed much sooner than that.
I was thinking more from an eastern US/European perspective, but I can see how firebombing the Front Range or Salt Lake City would take out most of a large area's infected, things being a lot more concentrated out there
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 19, 2016, 03:48:19 AM
There's no evidence at all of explosions or artillery, those holes in the buildings are 90 years of wear and tear in a wet country.
Indeed. Take a look at pictures of Pripyat, it's only been abandoned for 30 years and it's falling to bits.
Nature is astonishingly hard on buildings without humans being there to intervene.
Post by: Aierdome on October 19, 2016, 05:56:42 AM
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t444/Tanghue/ranks_zpsdczlakib.png)
So the four stars would indicate that the guy is a full general - however, the shape of the stars doesn't match up. This is what Danish Army general insignia looks like:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Rank_insignia_of_general_of_the_Royal_Danish_Army.svg/100px-Rank_insignia_of_general_of_the_Royal_Danish_Army.svg.png)
You can see that the number of "arms" is wrong. What the stars' shape does match, however, are the insignia of a general of the Swedish army:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/SWE-General-sv.png)
So... we know the general here wears Danish uniform, so why does he have Swedish insignia? I fully admit it might be a small oversight on Minna's part, but I'm just curious about other opinions.
Post by: Sc0ut on October 19, 2016, 07:13:17 AM
Post by: Haspen on October 19, 2016, 07:28:08 AM
Also, well, drug-induced euthanasia vs living up to who-knows-long as eldritch abomination chewing down fellow humans? Yeah, I think euthanasia is better option in this context...
Post by: urbicande on October 19, 2016, 10:26:02 AM
Post by: JacobThomsen on October 19, 2016, 10:49:30 AM
I would NOT want to be the one having to make that decision.Me neither, but that is probably why he's general, because he is able to make thoes kind of decisions.
On another note since the general just confirmed that trolls and beasts existed back in year 0, I wonder what they would looked like. Since all the trolls and beasts we see are shaped by decades of mutation, what would the first beasts look like? Would they be more classic zombie looking, like the dog Emil encountered, or would the greyish skin we see on beasts in year 90 already be present back in the early stages of troll and beast development. It must have been really shocking to be the first doctor to discover that their patient suddenly wasn't human anymore.
Post by: urbicande on October 19, 2016, 03:47:15 PM
Me neither, but that is probably why he's general, because he is able to make thoes kind of decisions.
On another note since the general just confirmed that trolls and beasts existed back in year 0, I wonder what they would looked like. Since all the trolls and beasts we see are shaped by decades of mutation, what would the first beasts look like? Would they be more classic zombie looking, like the dog Emil encountered, or would the greyish skin we see on beasts in year 90 already be present back in the early stages of troll and beast development. It must have been really shocking to be the first doctor to discover that their patient suddenly wasn't human anymore.
Well, we already knew that the bodies of the victims were grossly distorted early on (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=255). I expect they saw live trolls as well.
Post by: JacobThomsen on October 19, 2016, 05:22:41 PM
Maybe, but then again we don't know how long that body had been trapped there before it died. Since we don't know how long beasts can last without food/water (or whatever they need to stay alive) the body could in theory have been stuck there for years before it died. Which would leave plenty of time for it to slowly mutate.
Well, we already knew that the bodies of the victims were grossly distorted early on (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=255). I expect they saw live trolls as well.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 19, 2016, 09:40:11 PM
What I wonder is whether trolls are born strictly from the corruption of humans or if they can breed independently. Because I have to admit that some forms of trolls, especially the smaller ones and alien looking ones - that is to say those who look a lot more functional than a cancerous mass has any right to be - were really born from humans or if they were born at a later time through some form of reproduction.
Post by: JacobThomsen on October 20, 2016, 04:31:51 PM
through some form of reproduction.Trolls that can reproduce, well at least now I'll know what my nightmares are gonna be about tonight.
Post by: Solokov on October 20, 2016, 04:53:12 PM
That's three times this week along.. between this and the rumors surrounding clinton and Huma having a..... relationship......Yeah have fun with that mental image.
Post by: Jethan on October 20, 2016, 11:35:47 PM
*Hands JacobThomsen and Solokov cookies and brain bleach blanket*
Post by: Jharad17 on October 21, 2016, 12:01:11 AM
Down in the U.S. in the west, generally our population centers are where potable water was in large quantities, and while there was decent ag land around, the majority of our high production agriculture land isn't near those cities and we've got a stupidly complex water delivery system for it all. Lots of smaller towns spread out across the rural areas. And then the air bases are built even further out from the population centers.
Now the east coast is an overbuilt mess and a death-trap.. then again that's my assessment of LA, San Francisco and Sacramento as well.
Having grown up near Boston and now lived in rural Oregon for more than 15 years, I heartily agree with this assessment.
ETA: My avatar seems to have been uploaded upside down. Does anyone know how I can fix it? Or should I ask else-forum?
Post by: thorny on October 21, 2016, 12:14:09 AM
-- and I notice something about the composition of the group around the table. There's only one woman in the group; she's clearly not one of the decision makers, speaks as if she expects to be ignored, and her input is indeed ignored.
Minna's Year 90 world doesn't work like that. Is she making a deliberate contrast here?
Post by: heiteru on October 21, 2016, 12:22:49 AM
Just to clarify: am I right that all the information we're getting from the flashback, Mikkel's supposed to be getting from the notes he's reading?Yes, probably it is. we cann't say for sure until we don't see today's update, but at least it's looks like
-- and I notice something about the composition of the group around the table. There's only one woman in the group; she's clearly not one of the decision makers, speaks as if she expects to be ignored, and her input is indeed ignored.I don't think that everyone deliberately ignored her. She is one of the scientists and as we have seen - a few of them said anything. And military mens have always loved to ignore womens, especially in situations like this. Sad, but true з:
Minna's Year 90 world doesn't work like that. Is she making a deliberate contrast here?
Post by: Jharad17 on October 21, 2016, 12:26:04 AM
Just to clarify: am I right that all the information we're getting from the flashback, Mikkel's supposed to be getting from the notes he's reading?
That is my impression, though I don't know how or why minutes would exist of the last two pages.
Quote
-- and I notice something about the composition of the group around the table. There's only one woman in the group; she's clearly not one of the decision makers, speaks as if she expects to be ignored, and her input is indeed ignored.
Minna's Year 90 world doesn't work like that. Is she making a deliberate contrast here?
This is also my impression, though I had not thought of it till you mentioned it. Thanks for the brain food!
Post by: Juniper on October 21, 2016, 01:17:38 AM
Post by: JacobThomsen on October 21, 2016, 04:10:36 AM
I feel really bad for Siv after seeing her expression in the third panel. As if a lifetime of disappointment in searching for a cure or vaccine hasn't been enough for her . .Yeah she probably hope she could be the one to hand it to her old boss with a smug smile on her face.
I wonder where this military base the crew is suppose to get to is. Since it is only a few days travel away and there is no mentioning of crossing another bridge it has to be somewhere in the northern parts of Fyn.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 21, 2016, 04:47:41 AM
And then I realised. There is no international any more. Odense probably doesn't even have contact with Brussels, let alone across the Atlantic.
So, so grim.
Post by: Possib on October 21, 2016, 05:46:06 AM
And then I realised. There is no international any more. Odense probably doesn't even have contact with Brussels, let alone across the Atlantic.
You know how an apocalypse works, right? Look at the last panel, they don't have contact with three blocks away
Post by: Vafhudr on October 21, 2016, 09:15:26 AM
-- and I notice something about the composition of the group around the table. There's only one woman in the group; she's clearly not one of the decision makers, speaks as if she expects to be ignored, and her input is indeed ignored.
Minna's Year 90 world doesn't work like that. Is she making a deliberate contrast here?
That's a complete misreading of the situation and I don't think Minna is making any point. In fact, I doubt much thought was put into the composition, let alone an attempt at making a contrast.
The only order here is a descending order of optimism: we can do it in one week. We can perhaps do it - if we have another month - and finally, on the other side of the scale of pessimism - whatever we do, it won't work. Nothing they have tried work, what will another month or two add to that?
This comment is even more puzzling in that, insofar as I can tell, the four-star general follows this opinion - or rather, combines all the opinion: he gives a delay to allow for the off-chance they can do something in the next week or month, but also readies the use of what they already have. On the other hand, he has no illusion that it will work. Nor does he seem particularly hopeful that the delay he is giving will be of any help. They have already lost. Their new miracle cure is nothing but an abridgment of suffering (physical) - and even that he knows will have no long-term effect on the situation at hand. So, generally speaking, the opinion that prevailed from that meeting IS that of the lady scientist. It won't work. Regardless. 1 week. 2 week. 2 months. 90 years. No solution will change the situation. They fully acknowledge that and move on and do it regardless because they have no other options.
@ Jethan
No quite. Animals generate very clear beast-type monsters. I have in mind the trolls that have no obvious human template behind them like the snow facehugger. How did that thing come about?
@ Purple Wyrm
Please. It's not like Brussels would be of any help anyway.
Post by: urbicande on October 21, 2016, 11:49:47 AM
That is my impression, though I don't know how or why minutes would exist of the last two pages.
It's common and meetings of all sorts to have notes sent out afterwards so that knowledge isn't lost.
Post by: thorny on October 21, 2016, 03:01:29 PM
That's a complete misreading of the situation and I don't think Minna is making any point. In fact, I doubt much thought was put into the composition, let alone an attempt at making a contrast.
You might be right, in that I don't know Minna's intent and she may just have drawn a year 0 boardroom with almost all men in it, and the men making all the decisions, either without thinking about it, or by pure chance; despite the fact that we've seen no such situation in year 90. But I'm surprised by how absolutely certain you're able to feel about it.
This comment is even more puzzling in that [ . . . ] the opinion that prevailed from that meeting IS that of the lady scientist.
Not really. Her opinion seems to be 'it won't work so don't use it.' She starts to take the failed serum away with her, and is stopped. The person who decides to actually act, by putting the serum into production, is the one who prevailed; and he doesn't seem to be agreeing with her.
It's true that the general sense of the final panels is 'nothing will work.' But there's no sign that this is in response to her comment. Her comment was ignored at the time that she made it, and is shown in smaller type than the others -- which I took as possibly meaning that she doesn't expect to be heard in any case and so isn't bothering to speak up, though it's possible that the smaller type is only meant to express discouragement.
As far as the Friday page: are we to presume that Mikkel doesn't know the serum may have been used in any case (that not having been in the papers he read), or that he thinks it's only important that it wasn't a cure and so didn't report to the others that it may have been used
Post by: Jharad17 on October 21, 2016, 05:00:29 PM
It's common and meetings of all sorts to have notes sent out afterwards so that knowledge isn't lost.
Right, I know, but neither of the last two Generals seemed to writing anything down, and I can't think of any reason they would want anyone else to know what they were just saying about nothing to be done, it's over. For morale purposes if nothing else.
Post by: JacobThomsen on October 21, 2016, 05:16:14 PM
Right, I know, but neither of the last two Generals seemed to writing anything down, and I can't think of any reason they would want anyone else to know what they were just saying about nothing to be done, it's over. For morale purposes if nothing else.Since taking notes at/after a meeting is such a standard procedure in the military they probably did it out of pure habit and didn't think any closer of the problems this might cause them in the future, or they simply stoped caring about what people would think of them and just did what they thought was right.
Oh and Jharad17 have you remembered to introduced yourself over at the introduction thread so that we can give you a proper welcome.
Post by: JoB on October 21, 2016, 07:23:24 PM
What the stars' shape does match, however, are the insignia of a general of the Swedish army:For what it's worth, also the Norwegian (left to right: pre-2016 army & air force, post-2016 army, post-2016 air force):
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/SWE-General-sv.png)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/NOR_OF9.png/50px-NOR_OF9.png) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/General_distinksjon.png/60px-General_distinksjon.png) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/OF9_NOR_-_General_Luft.png/60px-OF9_NOR_-_General_Luft.png)
Finlands' insignia have lions instead, Iceland lacks earnest enough an army ...
Post by: Jharad17 on October 21, 2016, 08:47:30 PM
Since taking notes at/after a meeting is such a standard procedure in the military they probably did it out of pure habit and didn't think any closer of the problems this might cause them in the future, or they simply stoped caring about what people would think of them and just did what they thought was right.Oh, okay, I didn't know that about the military. At a previous job, where I was responsible for minutes keeping, I had to do them as the meeting was happening, to have any chance of typing them up later. So I just assumed....
Quote
Oh and Jharad17 have you remembered to introduced yourself over at the introduction thread so that we can give you a proper welcome.
No, I was unaware. Will pop by promptly. :)
Post by: Yuuago on October 24, 2016, 12:45:02 AM
Hmm, I wonder what Lalli is looking for...
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on October 24, 2016, 12:45:34 AM
The Dreaded…
That which cannot be named…
The next chapter break!
Post by: heiteru on October 24, 2016, 01:15:42 AM
Post by: urbicande on October 24, 2016, 09:45:18 AM
We'll tell each other scary stories about past breaks like real elders?
Most of the real elders cower under the covers.
Post by: Róisín on October 24, 2016, 09:56:05 AM
Post by: Yuuago on October 24, 2016, 10:18:37 AM
Post by: Kiraly on October 24, 2016, 07:32:42 PM
And those of us who cope with the lack of updates by creating buckets of fanwork. ;V
*shifty eyes* *shoves WIP pile further under the bed*
Post by: Róisín on October 24, 2016, 07:55:05 PM
Post by: Kiraly on October 24, 2016, 08:33:36 PM
Ooh, more fics, Kiraly? Yes please!
Hehe, yes, though some of them...who knows how long it will be. I've got quite a collection of half-finished stories and barely started ideas. I'm really hoping to get the last two chapters of my Hipster AU finished before the year is out, though.
(Oh, also, keep an eye on the AO3 tag on the 31st. There's an exchange called Trick or Treat going on right now, and the works get revealed on Halloween. Authors won't be revealed until the next week, but...judging from the number of SSSS fans who are doing it, there should be several new fics to read, some of them mine. :)))
Post by: Róisín on October 24, 2016, 09:33:46 PM
Post by: Yuuago on October 25, 2016, 12:32:41 AM
How're they going to get out of this one?
Post by: urbicande on October 25, 2016, 12:38:20 AM
I shouldn't have looked at the new page before bed.
Post by: Róisín on October 25, 2016, 01:56:44 AM
Post by: urbicande on October 25, 2016, 10:47:06 AM
At least Lalli discovered the ghosts and trolls while there is still a little light. Imagine if that mob had come on them in the small hours of the morning, with everyone asleep....
But how fast can they drive away from there?
Post by: heiteru on October 25, 2016, 11:56:14 AM
At least Lalli discovered the ghosts and trolls while there is still a little light. Imagine if that mob had come on them in the small hours of the morning, with everyone asleep....I don't wanna imagine it...
Post by: Vafhudr on October 25, 2016, 01:48:29 PM
Post by: Jethan on October 25, 2016, 05:10:14 PM
I wonder how many of those kitty candles are left, and will any of them be useful for warding off ghosts?
Post by: Athena on October 25, 2016, 05:14:50 PM
Aren't you glad this happened right in time for Halloween! It's way more fun if you image all the trolls with pumpkin heads. Welcome to the Halloween party, Lalli!
...I need to edit that. Pumpkin-trolls! :))
Post by: Jethan on October 26, 2016, 12:15:39 AM
...I need to edit that. Pumpkin-trolls! :))
YEEESSSSS! Please do! *Throws candy corn like confetti*
Post by: JacobThomsen on October 26, 2016, 02:05:25 AM
Post by: Yuuago on October 26, 2016, 08:13:01 AM
Looks like the hunt is on, better find Mrs A's church soon
Yep. D: Hopefully she'll be able to lead these guys to rest, otherwise... there'll be some big problems.
Post by: urbicande on October 26, 2016, 09:56:47 AM
And that was an audible SNAP! there, wasn't it? As in, a ghost physically making a noise.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 26, 2016, 03:31:08 PM
Post by: kmatie on October 26, 2016, 04:59:29 PM
Post by: urbicande on October 26, 2016, 09:09:39 PM
I think that's considered bullying and it should be stopped.
You can be the first one to go out and tell Sleipnope :)
Post by: Yuuago on October 27, 2016, 07:50:54 AM
I kind of don't want the chapter to end, buuut at least there's a lot of fan-stuff going on that I can occupy myself with. x_x
Lalli's expression in that bottom panel, though....
Post by: JacobThomsen on October 28, 2016, 04:45:30 AM
And we're finally gonna get the family trees :D !!! If they look just half as great as the language tree it's still going to be amazing.
Post by: urbicande on October 28, 2016, 10:02:54 AM
(Also, Sleipnope and the Murderghost Army is totally going to be the name of my new band)
Post by: Yuuago on October 28, 2016, 11:10:49 AM
And for the next chapter, of course, but ahhhh...!
Post by: JoB on October 28, 2016, 11:23:22 AM
After today's page I'm starting to fear that the cattank will break down just as they're near Mrs. A's church, and they all have to run the rest of the way.Chances are that they'll actually arrive faster that way ... :P
And we're finally gonna get the family trees :D !!! If they look just half as great as the language tree it's still going to be amazing."And that heap of felled trees on the left are the Svendborg, Nordson, etc. etc. families the prologue characters were related to, but went extinct in or shortly after Y0. Yep, that's a summit cross on top of it."
Post by: heiteru on October 28, 2016, 12:24:32 PM
(Also, Sleipnope and the Murderghost Army is totally going to be the name of my new band)I'm waiting for your concert! :))
Post by: JoB on October 29, 2016, 08:45:34 PM
I'm waiting for your concert! :))I'll be watching the special effects (http://www.supernormalstep.com/archives/what-2) ... from a distance. O0
Post by: urbicande on October 31, 2016, 05:32:52 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on November 01, 2016, 05:37:51 AM
You get a portrait! And you get a portrait! And you get a portrait! XoX XoX XoX
(Would link, but I'm on my phone)
Later: Here it is - Mikkel has six siblings!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwKiG_dWgAAmlqP.jpg:large)
Post by: Anna on November 01, 2016, 07:20:24 AM
- Kaino didn't have kids
- Lalli is an only child
- Onni and Tuuri didn't have any other siblings
Post by: Windfighter on November 01, 2016, 07:33:11 AM
Oh, hey, there's a portrait missing in Lalli's tree! Wonder if it'll come later or if it's someone unknown!
Post by: Anna on November 01, 2016, 07:45:37 AM
Oh, hey, there's a portrait missing in Lalli's tree! Wonder if it'll come later or if it's someone unknown!??? No there isn't. The line extending from his mother's portrait just shows that she's not related to anyone else on the trees and there isn't any room to show her line of descent.
Post by: Yuuago on November 01, 2016, 07:47:01 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on November 01, 2016, 08:06:06 AM
??? No there isn't. The line extending from his mother's portrait just shows that she's not related to anyone else on the trees and there isn't any room to show her line of descent.
Yeah, and if I'm squinting right it looks like the portrait above Lalli's parents is Taru, and I'm pretty sure she's not Lalli's (other) grandma ;D
Post by: Windfighter on November 01, 2016, 10:32:32 AM
Pff, now I feel stupid :P
Post by: Yuuago on November 01, 2016, 02:44:24 PM
IT'S HERE
http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=629
And by "it" I mean the family tree.
brb, staring at it forever
Post by: Mélusine on November 01, 2016, 02:56:05 PM
Post by: thorny on November 01, 2016, 03:05:58 PM
Post by: JacobThomsen on November 01, 2016, 03:16:44 PM
Post by: Yuuago on November 01, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
Post by: Athena on November 01, 2016, 04:13:47 PM
I can hardly wait to find out everyone's names. *_* This is going to be so useful for fanwork.
No kidding! now we finally have names for the Eide Generals, Emil's cousins, all of Mikkel's siblings (Wow, 6 of them!), and all of Reynir's siblings! Awesome!! ;D
Post by: Helia on November 01, 2016, 04:23:58 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on November 01, 2016, 04:50:43 PM
Also what is up with Ukko-Pekka having no family name.
Post by: Yuuago on November 01, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Also what is up with Ukko-Pekka having no family name.
Maybe Ensi never bothered asking what it was. ;p
Post by: Vafhudr on November 01, 2016, 04:52:55 PM
Post by: Keeper on November 01, 2016, 04:54:41 PM
Post by: Yuuago on November 01, 2016, 04:55:29 PM
Maybe his parents died too early for anyone to know it.
That's something I considered too. :Va Terribly sad if so, but possible considering.
Post by: Vafhudr on November 01, 2016, 04:56:30 PM
Post by: Tr on November 01, 2016, 05:40:12 PM
Or maybe he died too early to be remembered.And Ensi refused to talk about him for the rest of her days.
Reynirs grandfather looks like a nordic supermodelNow we know where Reynir gets his fabulous hair. :D
Post by: Miriam on November 01, 2016, 06:33:31 PM
Reynirs grandfather looks like a nordic supermodel
You think so?
Hmm, I guess I just prefer soft, sweet and sensitive above tough and (overly) masculine.
Post by: Anna on November 01, 2016, 07:39:38 PM
You think so?No, he really looks like a male model. Not that he's hot, which of course is a matter of taste, but that he wouldn't be out of place in, say, an ad in a fashion magazine.
Hmm, I guess I just prefer soft, sweet and sensitive above tough and (overly) masculine.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on November 01, 2016, 07:58:04 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on November 01, 2016, 08:31:14 PM
- Judging from the clothes worn it seems that perhaps Ragnar Arnason was a mage, but Reynir's father is not. The latter is depicted in plainclothes. Sigridur is wearing something that looks like mage garbs - so it is hard to say if magical talent simply skipped from Ragnar to Reynir or if Reynir's mom also has some talent. It is interesting to note that Arni, from the prologue, is also wearing mage garbs here.
- Similarly, and again on the basis of what they are shown wearing - it appears that Lalli may have had to mage parents, as both Tuulikki and Jukka wear tunics with patterns on their collar in the manner of Ukko-Pekka, whereas Juha (totally not the twins from A Red tail's dream) seemed to have married a non-mage (Anne-Mari also stands out as a bit of an odd name here - maybe it's more common than I am inclined to believe in Finland) - Onni inheriting the magic talent of his father. In case I am misreading this it means that magic talent skipped that generation and unto Lalli and Onni. BUT. Since magic in Finland is taught within families and with a master-apprentice dynamics, this means that either Ukko-Pekka was still around to teach them OR their respective parents were able to teach either of them. That Ukko-Pekka was in the picture seems unlikely to me, so I am thinking parents, until Onni took over Lalli's training when parents ceased being a thing. I am also assuming, again here from clothes depicted, that Ensi was a non-magic user. None of the prologue Hotakainen were established as magic sensitive so it would make sense that perhaps magic was introduced via husband in the second generation.
- While we have never met them I feel confident that Mille and Malthe Madsen are little monsters.
- I am having a hard time telling if Arni Ragnarsonn has either some mad sideburns or if that's just his hair.
- What is Emil even wearing here. No seriously. Everyone else in his family tree is wearing "DEFAULT CIVILIAN PLAINCLOTHES". Is this what the burninators wear? Or perhaps... it is foreshadowing and Emil will be revealed to be sensitive to magic and go on to become a swedish mage?
Post by: |Yucca| on November 01, 2016, 08:50:04 PM
Similarly, and again on the basis of what they are shown wearing - it appears that Lalli may have had to mage parents, as both Tuulikki and Jukka wear tunics with patterns on their collar in the manner of Ukko-Pekka, whereas Juha (totally not the twins from A Red tail's dream) seemed to have married a non-mage (Anne-Mari also stands out as a bit of an odd name here - maybe it's more common than I am inclined to believe in Finland) - Onni inheriting the magic talent of his father. In case I am misreading this it means that magic talent skipped that generation and unto Lalli and Onni. BUT. Since magic in Finland is taught within families and with a master-apprentice dynamics, this means that either Ukko-Pekka was still around to teach them OR their respective parents were able to teach either of them. That Ukko-Pekka was in the picture seems unlikely to me, so I am thinking parents, until Onni took over Lalli's training when parents ceased being a thing. I am also assuming, again here from clothes depicted, that Ensi was a non-magic user. None of the prologue Hotakainen were established as magic sensitive so it would make sense that perhaps magic was introduced via husband in the second generation.
Not sure about this. To me those look like various military personnel outfits we saw during the Keuruu flashback (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=386). Why Anne-Mari is shown in plain clothing though, maybe she wasn't working for the military?
- I am having a hard time telling if Arni Ragnarsonn has either some mad sideburns or if that's just his hair.
They're sideburns, as seen on page 292 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=292).
- What is Emil even wearing here. No seriously. Everyone else in his family tree is wearing "DEFAULT CIVILIAN PLAINCLOTHES". Is this what the burninators wear? Or perhaps... it is foreshadowing and Emil will be revealed to be sensitive to magic and go on to become a swedish mage?
He's wearing his rich boy attire (school uniform?) as seen on one of the support wallpapers (https://gumroad.com/minnasundberg).
All of the main cast are shown in pre-mission clothing.
Post by: Yuuago on November 01, 2016, 08:53:43 PM
He's wearing his rich boy attire (school uniform?) as seen in one of the support wallpapers (https://gumroad.com/minnasundberg)
Just pulled up the image to compare, and they're not quite the same (the one in the wp has a very high collar). But the pattern in the detailing is similar. So, probably one of his Fancy Outfits, yes. : D
Post by: Vafhudr on November 01, 2016, 10:17:37 PM
Post by: urbicande on November 01, 2016, 10:22:16 PM
Nothing says wealth like a popped up collar.
Friends don't let friends go collar-up
Post by: Basse on November 02, 2016, 05:34:46 AM
Quote
Not some lost poor soul though, but a fellow early mage-scout from some distant settlement, crossing paths with Ensi once, never to be met again.Original comment (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php#comment-2980560339)
She also confirmed that Ensi had twins! if that wasn't clear enough.
Comment (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_629/#comment-2980563336)
And lastly the Västerström kids names might have been inspired by the book-serie "Sune".
Comment (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_629/#comment-2980554558)
Post by: Yuuago on November 02, 2016, 07:51:44 AM
Post by: Basse on November 02, 2016, 10:10:23 AM
Ahh TY Basse, that's useful to know, thank you. :VNo problem, tis my duty to help!
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/67068e322fd878059f5cca8d50ea9a28/tumblr_np8xq04cpT1usyk6lo1_400.png)
Post by: Kiraly on November 02, 2016, 01:40:09 PM
For those wondering, here's Minnas answer to why Ukko-Pekka has no last name.Original comment (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php#comment-2980560339)
She also confirmed that Ensi had twins! if that wasn't clear enough.
Comment (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_629/#comment-2980563336)
And lastly the Västerström kids names might have been inspired by the book-serie "Sune".
Comment (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_629/#comment-2980554558)
Bless you, this confirms a couple of things for me. (While also leaving open the possibility that Ukko-Pekka could actually have been a god in disguise, since she didn't explicitly state that he isn't)
Guys I am SO EXCITED about this family tree!!!! I've been screaming about it on Tumblr ever since it was released, and I will probably continue to do so for a while. ALL THE NAMES!!! All the new headcanon fodder! All the incentive to finally write that fic about Onni and Reynir's brother Bjarni
Post by: Yuuago on November 02, 2016, 01:50:49 PM
Guys I am SO EXCITED about this family tree!!!! I've been screaming about it on Tumblr ever since it was released, and I will probably continue to do so for a while. ALL THE NAMES!!! All the new headcanon fodder! All the incentive to finally write that fic about Onni and Reynir's brother BjarniI may have already written 1300 words of it, what do you mean I'm obsessed.
Obsessed, or enthusiastic? ; )
Post by: Kiraly on November 02, 2016, 04:29:19 PM
Obsessed, or enthusiastic? ; )
(http://i.imgur.com/iFblmzX.png)
(Sorry, I couldn't help myself...I just had this picture conveniently lying around..)
Post by: Solokov on November 03, 2016, 03:38:07 AM
Post by: Windfighter on November 03, 2016, 04:10:36 AM
Post by: JoB on November 05, 2016, 07:07:03 PM
"wait, did that person get Lalli's mother without someone else? [...]"I wouldn't want to rule out the occasional oddity about offspring, once Finnish traditions (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=33) come into play. :P
Post by: Athena on November 09, 2016, 02:18:52 PM
Spoiler: Series of screenshots • show
That honestly just sounds awesome!! Cyberpunk hacker Lalli!! ;D
Post by: Yuuago on November 09, 2016, 02:20:21 PM
Post by: Antillanka on November 09, 2016, 03:46:48 PM
Minna just posted something truly awesome on her twitter.Spoiler: Series of screenshots • show
That honestly just sounds awesome!! Cyberpunk hacker Lalli!! ;D
Oh my goodness!!!! I love it!! I wonder where this will lead :D
Post by: urbicande on November 09, 2016, 04:51:10 PM
Minna just posted something truly awesome on her twitter.Spoiler: Series of screenshots • show
That honestly just sounds awesome!! Cyberpunk hacker Lalli!! ;D
That's a bright spot in an otherwise horrible day.
Post by: Buteo on November 09, 2016, 05:31:08 PM
That's a bright spot in an otherwise horrible day.
Yes, a reminder that we do still have some good things to look forward to.
Post by: Jethan on November 09, 2016, 07:24:31 PM
*Hops around while throwing more exclamation marks at the world*
Post by: Auxivele on November 09, 2016, 09:11:12 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! This is so exciting! I would love to play that! Lalli looks really spiffy!*seconds this reaction*
*Hops around while throwing more exclamation marks at the world*
Post by: Athena on November 09, 2016, 10:13:02 PM
*seconds this reaction*
*throws more exclamation points around just for good measure*
I've been thinking about that all day now and I just <3 !!!
Post by: Aierdome on November 10, 2016, 07:59:15 AM
Minna just posted something truly awesome on her twitter.Spoiler: Series of screenshots • show
That honestly just sounds awesome!! Cyberpunk hacker Lalli!! ;D
Ahhh, this is such a cool idea! I'd absolutely play that!
Post by: Athena on November 10, 2016, 06:35:57 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/hoHFewf.jpg?1)
Edit: I showed it to my brother, and he showed me the Apollo 13 mission patch. Parallels?
(http://talesofcuriosity.com/v/Man_On_The_Moon/i/Apollo_13_Patch.jpg)
Post by: |Yucca| on November 10, 2016, 06:52:13 PM
Somehow I feel the mission goal of the ghosts and beasts chasing our heroes is a bit less noble than that of the Apollo 13.
Post by: Athena on November 10, 2016, 06:56:22 PM
Somehow I feel the mission goal of the ghosts and beasts chasing our heroes is a bit less noble than that of the Apollo 13.
Maybe not from their perspective! From their view it's about chasing invaders out of their homeland.
Post by: Vafhudr on November 10, 2016, 07:34:25 PM
Post by: VibratingText on November 10, 2016, 07:50:11 PM
oh my goodness the new chapter cover is gorgeous
(http://i.imgur.com/hoHFewf.jpg?1)
Edit: I showed it to my brother, and he showed me the Apollo 13 mission patch. Parallels?
(http://talesofcuriosity.com/v/Man_On_The_Moon/i/Apollo_13_Patch.jpg)
Now that you mention it, yeah, that's a pretty clear reference.
Unfortunately none of the crew is even close to looking like Tom Hanks, sooo...
Post by: urbicande on November 11, 2016, 09:39:19 AM
Now that you mention it, yeah, that's a pretty clear reference.
Unfortunately none of the crew is even close to looking like Tom Hanks, sooo...
And one hopes that they won't have to suddenly repair the Cattank
Post by: heiteru on November 11, 2016, 11:37:33 AM
Post by: VibratingText on November 16, 2016, 09:00:24 AM
Post by: urbicande on November 16, 2016, 09:32:52 AM
/I spent whole day to read article about Apollo-13 in Wikipedia/ /Forum Educational/
This is showing my age. In 1970 I was in...err...second grade, I think, since I was 8. I remember writing a current events report about it at the time!
Post by: Basse on November 16, 2016, 09:37:54 AM
Aww yeah it's siege boss time.Helms deep style, we're just waiting for the rain now.
Post by: VibratingText on November 16, 2016, 09:58:25 AM
/I spent whole day to read article about Apollo-13 in Wikipedia/ /Forum Educational/
There's an absolutely fantastic movie on it by Ron Howard, if the article didn't say that (It probably did).
Post by: heiteru on November 16, 2016, 10:37:43 AM
This is showing my age. In 1970 I was in...err...second grade, I think, since I was 8. I remember writing a current events report about it at the time!my mom was 7 and my father was 8 in 1970, sooo considering the fact that I was rather late child - it's not surprising that I don't know much about all this space race :'D i always know about "Houston, we've had a problem", but nothing more... and yes, I am ashamed for it з:
There's an absolutely fantastic movie on it by Ron Howard, if the article didn't say that (It probably did).yes, I heard about this movie, but I have never been able to see it entirely >:C !
Post by: thorny on November 16, 2016, 11:46:41 AM
This is showing my age. In 1970 I was in...err...second grade, I think, since I was 8. I remember writing a current events report about it at the time!
my mom was 7 and my father was 8 in 1970, sooo considering the fact that I was rather late child - it's not surprising that I don't know much about all this space race
I was 18 and in college orientation during the first moon landing in 1969. They had an oversize TV screen set up for us to watch it on.
I expect a lot of us thought there'd have been a base there for many years by now.
Post by: Vafhudr on November 16, 2016, 03:14:03 PM
Well this can only end well.
Post by: Doldrum on November 16, 2016, 04:54:55 PM
And so Sigrun casually decides to make a stand in an open area against a horde of monster.On one hand i want everything to be fine on the other i want everything to go wrong.
Well this can only end well.
Post by: thorny on November 16, 2016, 05:54:30 PM
It doesn't seem that the cattank can outrun the horde; and, if they get caught while trying to do so, there'd be no chance to choose ground at that point.
And I don't know that Sigrun's being casual. Some people go dead calm in an emergency -- and in her line of work that would be a useful trait.
Post by: Basse on November 16, 2016, 07:20:15 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on November 16, 2016, 07:53:52 PM
Post by: Basse on November 16, 2016, 08:08:40 PM
I was being irreverent but I will say that this does not bode well as I am pretty sure only Sigrun and Lalli in this group can shoot well at all.Ah yes, well that's why Emil has the flamethrower, no need for details such as 'aim' with that and Mikkel...well Mikkel is a danger by himself for any unsuspicious victim one way or another, no need for him to have a gun.
Mikkel was a joke
Post by: Vafhudr on November 16, 2016, 08:16:30 PM
This situation calls... for A RING OF FIRE.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on November 16, 2016, 11:57:47 PM
ELECTRIC RING OF FIRE.
Post by: Windfighter on November 17, 2016, 02:45:05 AM
I was being irreverent but I will say that this does not bode well as I am pretty sure only Sigrun and Lalli in this group can shoot well at all.
You're being unfair. Emil is very good at shooting, he's just not very good at hitting ;)
Post by: Vafhudr on November 17, 2016, 06:41:47 AM
Post by: urbicande on November 17, 2016, 09:11:26 AM
Well you do have a point.
This situation calls... for A RING OF FIRE.
Would that stop the Sleipnope (or any other ghost)?
Post by: heiteru on November 17, 2016, 09:25:50 AM
Would that stop the Sleipnope (or any other ghost)?if that doesn't stop ghosts, so that just delay trolls! not bad.
and Reynir's rune burned, so... maybe ghosts don't like fire? who knows
Post by: Vafhudr on November 17, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
Of all the troll assembled I could see sleipnope jumping above it and confronting the group directly.
Either that or he bullies his minions into going forth into the flames - and then you have flaming trolls. Just as bothersome as their internet counterparts.
Post by: urbicande on November 17, 2016, 12:13:23 PM
@ Urbicande
Of all the troll assembled I could see sleipnope jumping above it and confronting the group directly.
Either that or he bullies his minions into going forth into the flames - and then you have flaming trolls. Just as bothersome as their internet counterparts.
Sleipnope is a ghost, though, so I'd expect them to just walk through the flames unaffected.
My guess on defense is that the Cattank's spotlights swivel to the sides and headlights on. The light might keep things at bay on those three sides. That leaves the back to be defended. If it's tough enough it might be able to keep the trolls out. Ghosts...well...that's going to be Lalli and Reynir's job, and with any luck they can get in touch with Onni.
Post by: Vafhudr on November 17, 2016, 12:16:46 PM
It will probably fall to Lalli to deal with it but we can hope for Onni support.
Post by: Antillanka on November 19, 2016, 03:57:55 PM
http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25 (http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25)
Post by: heiteru on November 19, 2016, 04:15:18 PM
Hey, everyone, did you see this!?!?have seen it and screaming about it.
http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25 (http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25)
Post by: Basse on November 19, 2016, 04:24:40 PM
Hey, everyone, did you see this!?!?Seen it and Hyped! also we have been kinda spoiled with this constant 5 page/week updates but I believe we as a community and minnions will together survive this 4 page/week change.
http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25 (http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25)
Post by: urbicande on November 19, 2016, 09:22:45 PM
Hey, everyone, did you see this!?!?
http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25 (http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25)
I hadn't seen it until just now. My immediate first thought was "BOOO! Less SSSS!" followed by my second thought of "YAY! NEW PROJECT!"
Post by: Vafhudr on November 19, 2016, 09:38:31 PM
Post by: Kelpie on November 19, 2016, 10:23:43 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on November 20, 2016, 12:28:41 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/QDGT0mh.png) Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
That pretty much sums it up! ;D
Post by: JacobThomsen on November 20, 2016, 06:18:19 AM
*Ahem*(http://i.imgur.com/QDGT0mh.png) Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
That pretty much sums it up! ;D
A very accurate depiction of me right now
Post by: urbicande on November 20, 2016, 09:37:41 AM
Post by: JoB on November 20, 2016, 10:01:18 AM
So now we'll discover that the cyberpunk comic is the *real* world and that the Y90 world of SSSS is just Our Heroes all playing a MMORPGIt's the Rashtrix, actually.
Post by: heiteru on November 20, 2016, 11:26:53 AM
It's the Rashtrix, actually.Maybe I'm stupid, but ... what is that? I realized that it's something about Rash, but no more.
Post by: JacobThomsen on November 20, 2016, 11:37:14 AM
Maybe I'm stupid, but ... what is that? I realized that it's something about Rash, but no more.
It's a mix of "The Matrix" and "Rash"
Post by: Ana Nymus on November 20, 2016, 11:38:23 AM
Hey, everyone, did you see this!?!?
http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25 (http://www.sssscomic.com/journal.php?entry=25)
Aaaaaaaaaaah! This is going to be awesome! *is absolutely willing to sacrifice one comic page a week for this to become reality*
Post by: heiteru on November 20, 2016, 03:14:03 PM
It's a mix of "The Matrix" and "Rash"Ah, got it!
Post by: JacobThomsen on November 22, 2016, 09:12:20 AM
Post by: urbicande on November 22, 2016, 09:16:17 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on November 23, 2016, 10:47:54 AM
Post by: PickleChip on November 24, 2016, 04:15:39 AM
I thought it was like this
(http://i.imgur.com/2Y1Ausb.jpg)
Took me a little bit longer than I liked to realize it was like this
(http://i.imgur.com/DjNRb4O.jpg)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on November 24, 2016, 08:21:29 AM
Was confused by Lalli 's face in the last panel of the new page.
I thought it was like this
(http://i.imgur.com/2Y1Ausb.jpg)
Took me a little bit longer than I liked to realize it was like this
(http://i.imgur.com/DjNRb4O.jpg)
OH GOOD LORD I SEE IT!
Post by: JacobThomsen on November 24, 2016, 08:49:35 AM
Was confused by Lalli 's face in the last panel of the new page.
AHHH, can't unsee, can't unsee
Post by: Danskjavlar on November 24, 2016, 12:59:44 PM
Post by: heiteru on November 24, 2016, 02:39:11 PM
Was confused by Lalli 's face in the last panel of the new page.okay, THANK YOU :'D
I thought it was like this
Post by: Antillanka on November 24, 2016, 04:15:29 PM
Was confused by Lalli 's face in the last panel of the new page.
I thought it was like this ....
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA OMG WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN!!!
Post by: Coffee on November 24, 2016, 06:29:38 PM
Was confused by Lalli 's face in the last panel of the new page.
I thought it was like this
OHMYGOSH IT TOOK ME A WHILE BUT I SEE IT NOW O_O
Bug-eyed Lalli. The more I look at the page the more I see it...
Post by: Kelpie on November 29, 2016, 11:01:22 PM
Post by: Jethan on November 29, 2016, 11:10:47 PM
IT SOUNDS SO COOL THOUGH!!!!!!!! XoX
Post by: Purple Wyrm on November 30, 2016, 02:41:17 AM
Post by: heiteru on November 30, 2016, 07:52:55 AM
I WANT TO PLAY IT NOW DARNIT!!! :))
EXACTLY THE SAME !!!
Post by: Vafhudr on December 01, 2016, 07:09:00 PM
Post by: urbicande on December 01, 2016, 10:16:18 PM
Dang it, why is Lalli even going melee here.
MORTAL MAGE FIGHT!
Post by: Kelpie on December 01, 2016, 10:52:28 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on December 02, 2016, 01:23:39 AM
Post by: urbicande on December 04, 2016, 07:35:30 PM
Post by: Ragnarok on December 04, 2016, 07:37:18 PM
Post by: Basse on December 04, 2016, 07:43:19 PM
So what's Lalli's answer to Sleipnope's question (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=642)?Kyllä
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on December 04, 2016, 07:50:42 PM
So what's Lalli's answer to Sleipnope's question (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=642)?Lalli: *Summons Luonto*
Sleipnope: …
Sleipnope: Bye!
…We can only hope.
Post by: VibratingText on December 04, 2016, 09:05:01 PM
Post by: heiteru on December 04, 2016, 10:14:43 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on December 04, 2016, 10:41:02 PM
Now he will leave the group alone for a month during which Lalli will have to become strong enough to fight him.
Post by: Basse on December 04, 2016, 11:22:22 PM
Or he was a character from some shounen manga or something.Or Lalli will start powering up with dramatic screaming, doing that for the remaining of this chapter.
Now he will leave the group alone for a month during which Lalli will have to become strong enough to fight him.
"you fool, this isn't even my final form!"
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Post by: Kelpie on December 04, 2016, 11:45:37 PM
Quote from: Basse
Or Lalli will start powering up with dramatic screaming, doing that for the remaining of this chapter.XD I would probably die if that happened.
"you fool, this isn't even my final form!"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
But like, are we talking less weak since last time like last time the ghosts came through and Onni saved them all? Or like Hotakainen family curse last time?
Post by: Basse on December 04, 2016, 11:52:53 PM
But like, are we talking less weak since last time like last time the ghosts came through and Onni saved them all? Or like Hotakainen family curse last time?It is probably refering to the former one (page 472), when Lalli was still 'missing' his Luonto at that time.
Post by: Kelpie on December 05, 2016, 12:41:14 AM
Quote from: Basse
It is probably refering to the former one (page 472), when Lalli was still 'missing' his Luonto at that time.Ohhh yeah, I forgot he was missing his luonto, makes more sense now.
Post by: VibratingText on December 05, 2016, 09:52:05 PM
Sigrun just dropped her dagger mid-battle.
This is not good.
Post by: Vafhudr on December 05, 2016, 10:30:44 PM
It was going to bite here in the ass at some point.
At least it's not while fighting alone.
Post by: urbicande on December 06, 2016, 08:26:56 AM
There it is.
It was going to bite here in the ass at some point.
At least it's not while fighting alone.
Well...she's got Emil who can't aim, Mikkel who can only swing a crowbar. That's not a LOT of help.
Post by: Lazy8 on December 06, 2016, 02:50:15 PM
Well...she's got Emil who can't aim, Mikkel who can only swing a crowbar. That's not a LOT of help.
Just to be contrary: if Emil thinks to break out the flamethrower he won't need to aim all that well, and if she gets hurt again I think she's going to want Mikkel there. Looks like Lalli's being pretty helpful as well; if not for him taking on Sleipnope, and Reynir's runes holding off the rest of the ghosts, she'd also be under attack by a whole lot of opponents she can't see.
Post by: Gaemmel on December 07, 2016, 04:00:18 PM
*Who named the horse like that, btw? I have always wanted to ask, even though I know it's off-topic.
Post by: JacobThomsen on December 07, 2016, 04:14:38 PM
*Who named the horse like that, btw? I have always wanted to ask, even though I know it's off-topic.
I don't know precisely who came up with the name first, but it started back when sleipnope first took the form of the horse. A lot of the comment section were people saying Nope, while another big part were people pointing out that the ghost now looked like Sleipner. Sleipner + nope = Sleipnope
Post by: Gaemmel on December 07, 2016, 04:23:52 PM
Post by: urbicande on December 08, 2016, 10:09:54 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on December 08, 2016, 04:32:29 PM
Post by: Antillanka on December 08, 2016, 06:25:52 PM
And she is further away from the truck now.
Whew, not far enough, thank gods
Post by: urbicande on December 09, 2016, 09:42:00 AM
Post by: Gaemmel on December 09, 2016, 09:59:55 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on December 09, 2016, 10:43:27 AM
Post by: urbicande on December 09, 2016, 11:10:29 AM
Post by: Róisín on December 09, 2016, 11:50:49 AM
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on December 09, 2016, 12:22:40 PM
So, shall we assume it's Onni playing that kantele on page 645 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=645)?Nah: it's Tuomi, with
Post by: Athena on December 09, 2016, 02:31:17 PM
Nah: it's Tuomi, withthe Rabbit kidLittle Hare by his side--and there's your aRTD crossover.
Yay for canon aRTD crossover! :P
He did have a small backpack? Can't imagine a travelling mage not keeping such an important tool close to his body.
Just checked back on that (Page 449) and yes, he did have a small pack with him which looks big enough to fit a kantele.
Post by: Vafhudr on December 09, 2016, 03:20:55 PM
http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87)
Post by: Athena on December 09, 2016, 03:26:11 PM
If I recall correctly, there has been at least a few images of mages with kanteles at their side - and not even in a bag.
http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87)
Oh, well spotted!
Post by: Windfighter on December 09, 2016, 04:12:31 PM
Yay for canon aRTD crossover! :P
The radio-talkers in the Finland-part of the prologue was also a canon aRTD crossover :D
Post by: kmatie on December 10, 2016, 07:00:26 PM
Post by: Athena on December 11, 2016, 12:31:49 AM
Hmm... I wonder what Tuuri and Reynir are doing in the Cat-Tank... More Tic-Tac-Toe?
Probably! Or hugging each other, scared to death with the banging and gunshots outside. (Also, you seem to be new here. Why no pop over to the Introduction thread so we can welcome you properly? :) )
Post by: Antillanka on December 11, 2016, 11:09:55 AM
If I recall correctly, there has been at least a few images of mages with kanteles at their side - and not even in a bag.
http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87)
Actually, Onni has one in the mages' wallpaper Minna did a while ago ^^ and it looks to be roughly the same size of the one in the last page!.... and in that other wallpaper in which Onni is summoning the wind or something too!
Post by: Vafhudr on December 13, 2016, 11:16:40 PM
Post by: urbicande on December 14, 2016, 10:01:10 AM
And today we have learned that Onni's strange combover is in fact a bird's nest.
mdr
Post by: Coffee on December 15, 2016, 07:09:04 PM
I really hope he'll be okay...
Post by: Anna on December 15, 2016, 07:23:47 PM
Post by: Tr on December 15, 2016, 07:45:07 PM
It took me a moment to notice that panel and now I am deeply concerned. O_OExcuse me while I run in circles and panic for a bit. Because on page 648 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=648), it looks like Onni's luonto might have been injured, and yes, Onni is more experienced than Lalli but this spell just seems so much more advanced. So basically,
ONNNIIIIII!!! AAAAAAAAAAA!
(http://i.imgur.com/MVFXPTf.jpg?1)
Post by: heiteru on December 15, 2016, 08:59:54 PM
Post by: Buteo on December 15, 2016, 09:06:58 PM
Excuse me while I run in circles and panic for a bit. Because on page 648 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=648), it looks like Onni's luonto might have been injured, and yes, Onni is more experienced than Lalli but this spell just seems so much more advanced. So basically,
ONNNIIIIII!!! AAAAAAAAAAA!
Couldn't put it better myself.
Post by: Coffee on December 15, 2016, 10:35:25 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on December 15, 2016, 11:01:24 PM
Post by: Kelpie on December 16, 2016, 12:27:33 AM
Me, upon seeing the top spread of the new page: let it-- holy crap.
Post by: Athena on December 16, 2016, 12:47:05 AM
And it's a Friday page, isn't it? So it's a cliffhanger too. That's cruel, Minna! :'(
aahhh D: I hope Onni is okay...
Post by: heiteru on December 16, 2016, 01:31:13 AM
Me, happily singing along to Christmas songs in the background: And since we've no place to gooooo, let it snow, let it snow,
Me, upon seeing the top spread of the new page: let it-- holy crap.
Sorry Onni, but it's make me laugh.
Post by: JoB on December 17, 2016, 01:48:17 PM
Hmm... I wonder what Tuuri and Reynir are doing in the Cat-Tank... More Tic-Tac-Toe?... nnnoooooooooo (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contagious-Diseases-awareness-Quartet-Language/dp/B0052YLP1M) ...
Post by: wavewright62 on December 17, 2016, 02:42:13 PM
... nnnoooooooooo (https://wwwx.amazon.co.uk/Contagious-Diseases-awareness-Quartet-Language/dp/B0052YLP1M) ...
???? How, I say HOW, did this end up in your history to link? :haw: :haw:
Post by: JoB on December 17, 2016, 02:55:33 PM
???? How, I say HOW, did this end up in your history to link? :haw: :haw:It didn't. I did a bit of Christmas gift shopping today, and the shop where I bought a bunch of CDs just happened to have a bunch of quartets, including this one, one on male tyrants, one on female ones, etc., so it was freshly on my mind. I had heard of it before, though, and the cow-orkers occasionally play a "minorities quartet", so ... Quartets are big thing in Germany, just say "[random property], trick!" ("sticht!" in German) and everyone'll know which game of cards you're alluding to. ;)
Post by: urbicande on December 19, 2016, 01:31:31 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on December 19, 2016, 07:29:53 PM
Post by: VibratingText on December 19, 2016, 08:15:53 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on December 19, 2016, 09:09:31 PM
Why does a military vehicle have wooden flooring?
I've always figured it's a metal shell with a wooden interior to save on resources (and create a homely Nordic feel).
Post by: heiteru on December 19, 2016, 09:35:40 PM
Why does a military vehicle have wooden flooring?For warmth, acoustics and the type of order?
Post by: Purple Wyrm on December 19, 2016, 10:29:49 PM
(Either that or one of the reasons the Danes couldn't hold Kastrup was that their tanks were all make of wood ;D )
Post by: Vafhudr on December 20, 2016, 12:07:58 AM
Post by: Antillanka on December 20, 2016, 10:53:53 AM
Spoiler: show
Post by: JoB on December 20, 2016, 11:30:22 AM
Why does a military vehicle have wooden flooring?Why would a military (more precisely, combat) vehicle have tail lights the size of Emils thighs (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=190)?
Post by: wavewright62 on December 20, 2016, 09:27:18 PM
I'm sorry for Slithery, thoughSpoiler: show
Splendid... DIE!! Akxx
Yes, I Read A Lot has other names, I can't remember them offhand though. She also has different names on AO3 & Tumblr, I think.
Post by: Grade E cat on December 21, 2016, 03:50:38 AM
Of all the personal predictions I've had for this battle, the only one that has yet to be challenged or confirmed was "double, if not triple magic coma". Onni is out and the runes don't seem to do the energy sapping some of us have feared, so if Reynir gets one, it would have to be from something else.
Post by: JoB on December 21, 2016, 10:59:32 AM
The second of course includes "sudden burst of magic from Reynir" scenario.... followed by a shape-changing cat-tank ... ;)
Post by: urbicande on December 21, 2016, 12:34:31 PM
... followed by a shape-changing cat-tank ... ;)
Maybe into this!
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/Ro0BA5jnKLxQs/200_s.gif)
Post by: Vafhudr on December 21, 2016, 01:04:25 PM
Just had a thought from the lastest page. I remember that earlier in the chapter, someone on Disqus suggested the tank as a possible casualty of the current battle. I think this has just become more likely via two possible channels. One is that they manage to deal with the troll, but it turns out to have eaten through something vital to get inside. The other is that the troll does no damage to the tank, but whatever means are used to kill it do the damage. The second of course includes "sudden burst of magic from Reynir" scenario.
Of all the personal predictions I've had for this battle, the only one that has yet to be challenged or confirmed was "double, if not triple magic coma". Onni is out and the runes don't seem to do the energy sapping some of us have feared, so if Reynir gets one, it would have to be from something else.
I am still banking on the ''someone gets wounded/infected scenario - prompting a race against the clock to find something approximating a cure'' to unfold.
Post by: JoB on December 23, 2016, 07:21:10 AM
Maybe into this!Actually I was thinking of the kind of "shape change" one'ld expect from having an explosive charge go off inside a mostly-airtight tin can. I'm fairly sure that, in the context of botulism "infected" food conserves, I've read that there's the technical term "bombation" for that, but I'm afraid that Google fails me on that one ...
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/Ro0BA5jnKLxQs/200_s.gif)
Edit: As in:
(https://eatdrinkfilms.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/nicoiseanchovycan.jpg)
Post by: Anna on December 23, 2016, 05:57:58 PM
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on December 24, 2016, 12:58:44 AM
Why does a military vehicle have wooden flooring?
Because Scandinavians can't into tank designing.
Remember kids, always buy American or Russian.
Post by: thorny on December 29, 2016, 11:00:13 PM
-- and, it occurs to me: the portion of the crew inside the cattank doesn't know whether there's anybody still alive outside the tank, do they? All they know is that there was a whole lot of noise. And now --
Post by: Antillanka on December 30, 2016, 09:07:10 AM
There appears to be metal under there too, judging by the new page.
-- and, it occurs to me: the portion of the crew inside the cattank doesn't know whether there's anybody still alive outside the tank, do they? All they know is that there was a whole lot of noise. And now --
As long as there's some shooting, they know there's at least someone alive out there, right?
Post by: thorny on December 30, 2016, 11:22:17 AM
Post by: urbicande on December 30, 2016, 02:49:37 PM
Post by: Basse on December 30, 2016, 03:01:28 PM
And HOW are they going to get out of this one?Magic! *does magic hand waves*
Post by: JacobThomsen on December 30, 2016, 06:10:12 PM
Magic! *does magic hand waves*
Let's hope so, I been waiting for battlemage Reynir in forever
Post by: wavewright62 on December 30, 2016, 06:41:10 PM
And HOW are they going to get out of this one?
Mikkel's dinner leftovers? (I'll see myself out.)
Post by: Jerzy_S on January 02, 2017, 06:09:56 PM
It just can't be real! Never ever have I thought that a main character dying is even an option in this comic. And well, I hope I haven't been wrong!
Also, the question I keep asking myself now - Where is Reynir?
I hope he's fine. May the Thursday's page prove me right.
Post by: urbicande on January 02, 2017, 06:24:41 PM
It just can't be real! Never ever have I thought that a main character dying is even an option in this comic. And well, I hope I haven't been wrong!
"You can't win, Troll. If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
Post by: Kiraly on January 02, 2017, 07:00:32 PM
Post by: Ragnarok on January 02, 2017, 07:06:48 PM
Post by: urbicande on January 02, 2017, 07:27:28 PM
Post by: Coffee on January 02, 2017, 07:32:12 PM
Tuuri :'(
Post by: TicTac on January 02, 2017, 08:05:33 PM
WELP TIME TO WORK ON THAT CURE GET TO WORK GUYS COME ON
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 02, 2017, 08:23:19 PM
*Hides in a corner and whimpers*
Post by: Windfighter on January 02, 2017, 11:19:24 PM
Nothing to worry about! They'll use the serum to kill the virus, and then Onni, Lalli and Reynir will be able to guide Tuuri's spirit back into her body. The only reason the serum failed so badly in the old world was they didn't have mages to correct the soul-expulsion bit. ALL WILL BE WELL AGAIN!!!
*Hides in a corner and whimpers*
Gosh blast it, I've kind of done that for one or two of my stories and I didn't think of that solution! I bow to you! *bows*
Post by: VibratingText on January 02, 2017, 11:26:20 PM
Post by: Kelpie on January 02, 2017, 11:27:26 PM
Obviously the bullet from Lalli's gun went through the troll's head and nicked poor Tuuri's shoulder. Silly Lalli! You forgot Rule 4!Please please please, I hope you're right.
Post by: VibratingText on January 02, 2017, 11:30:54 PM
Post by: Windfighter on January 02, 2017, 11:35:04 PM
You know this is a zombie/plague story fandom when getting shot is one of the better alternatives.
Except if it went troll > Tuuri the bullet would have brought infected juices into Tuuri anyway D:
Post by: Kelpie on January 02, 2017, 11:40:35 PM
Except if it went troll > Tuuri the bullet would have brought infected juices into Tuuri anyway D:Ehhh, my extremely vague ballistics knowledge I've picked up by being American makes me think that the bullet would be too hot for any germs and such to actually survive the trip.
Post by: Windfighter on January 02, 2017, 11:47:12 PM
Ehhh, my extremely vague ballistics knowledge I've picked up by being American makes me think that the bullet would be too hot for any germs and such to actually survive the trip.
Oh, right! *holds thumb*
Although there are germs flying around all over in there now so I'm not sure it's safe anyway D:
Still hoping!
Post by: VibratingText on January 02, 2017, 11:50:55 PM
Ehhh, my extremely vague ballistics knowledge I've picked up by being American makes me think that the bullet would be too hot for any germs and such to actually survive the trip.
Almost certainly, even if the Finns had reverted to black powder, which I doubt judging by the gun's design.
Even so, she'd have to worry about normal infections, and possibly lead poisoning.
Post by: Coffee on January 03, 2017, 12:16:45 AM
You know this is a zombie/plague story fandom when getting shot is one of the better alternatives.
It's so easy to forget that ssss is a zombie story, and that this is a fandom where the "a main character gets bitten" scenario can happen.
Post by: heiteru on January 03, 2017, 01:02:34 AM
'cause she's not only or just Tuuri. She's the only one who can fix the tank and drive it. So now, when the tank is exactly broken, and Tuuri is wounded - they are. in a very. big. s***.
(help I need some help tell me that everything gonna be allright please)
Post by: JacobThomsen on January 03, 2017, 01:49:37 AM
(help I need some help tell me that everything gonna be allright please)
Do not worry here's a list of totally realistic reasons why Tuuri didn't get wounded by the troll
Tuuri was clumsy and fell on something sharp (other than troll claws)
She spilled some red jam on herself
Kitty bit her because Kitty was scared
Reynir bit her because he is secretly a vampire
Turri bit herself to confuse the troll
A wound spontaneously appeared on her shoulder
(Oh god please help me find more excuses that will convince me that everything is gonna be okay)
Post by: Windfighter on January 03, 2017, 02:16:55 AM
(No wait, that means Lalli just killed Emil D: )
Post by: heiteru on January 03, 2017, 02:18:17 AM
WINDY COME ON
Post by: Jethan on January 03, 2017, 02:28:49 AM
Reynir just needs a black cape now!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 03, 2017, 03:03:45 AM
I feel heartily amused at the idea of Reynir being a vampire. It's even better, because if he's already turned into one kind of a monster, how could he turn into a troll after that?
Reynir just needs a black cape now!
(http://i.imgur.com/3cnzdrY.png)
Post by: JacobThomsen on January 03, 2017, 03:21:19 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/3cnzdrY.png)
Hahahahaha :'D Reynir crewmember and amateur mage by day, bloodthirsty monster by night
Post by: wavewright62 on January 03, 2017, 03:54:52 AM
The troll is not really a troll, just Emil showing off the halloween costume he made for next year's party!
(No wait, that means Lalli just killed Emil D: )
Wow, the author and artist behind 1001 Ways Emil Must Die has come up with no. 1002!
Post by: Hrollo on January 03, 2017, 04:07:34 AM
Post by: Windfighter on January 03, 2017, 04:32:47 AM
Wow, the author and artist behind 1001 Ways Emil Must Die has come up with no. 1002!
Thank you! Also currently arting number 1003!
WINDY COME ON...You're welcome? 0=)
Wyrm! Awesome!
Post by: Gaemmel on January 03, 2017, 06:48:19 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on January 03, 2017, 09:39:08 AM
Nothing to worry about! They'll use the serum to kill the virus, and then Onni, Lalli and Reynir will be able to guide Tuuri's spirit back into her body. The only reason the serum failed so badly in the old world was they didn't have mages to correct the soul-expulsion bit. ALL WILL BE WELL AGAIN!!!
*Hides in a corner and whimpers*
You say that but I am confident that specifically because Tuuri will have access to both serum (if they find it - which they will, the plot demands it) and two mage relatives who can deal with the spiritual side of things.
Also
Called it.
Called it so hard. Now I need to find that post outlining why I thought Tuuri would be the one to get infected.
Post by: heiteru on January 03, 2017, 01:33:50 PM
Post by: urbicande on January 03, 2017, 02:00:07 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/3cnzdrY.png)
Hee hee hee
Post by: Solokov on January 03, 2017, 03:42:52 PM
....well.. shit.
(http://i.imgur.com/3cnzdrY.png)
...Why do you even have that?
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 03, 2017, 05:46:16 PM
...Why do you even have that?
A week off work provides lots of time to make stupid things :D
Post by: Jethan on January 04, 2017, 02:25:21 AM
A week off work provides lots of time to make stupid things :D
It is fabulous. ;D
Post by: Haspen on January 04, 2017, 03:49:54 AM
Cuz I wanna comment the latest comic page but my heart is broken :C
Post by: heiteru on January 04, 2017, 04:15:00 AM
This is the place to comment on the latest comic page right?Yeah, this is.
Cuz I wanna comment the latest comic page but my heart is broken :C
Not only your heart, my friend...
Post by: Hrollo on January 04, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Post by: VibratingText on January 05, 2017, 10:20:33 AM
Post by: thorny on January 05, 2017, 03:38:51 PM
Even if standard protocol is to kill infected people immediately: they can't.
If she's still going to be Tuuri for a few days, they desperately need her to, while she still can, help with repairing the cattank and try to transmit as much mechanic's knowledge and language translation as she possibly can, before (barring their finding a cure, which I very much hope will be the way out of this) she becomes incapacitated.
(I had an additional thought on this; but I posted it in the Character Development: Tuuri thread.)
Post by: JacobThomsen on January 05, 2017, 03:59:09 PM
It occurs to me:
Even if standard protocol is to kill infected people immediately: they can't.
If she's still going to be Tuuri for a few days, they desperately need her to, while she still can, help with repairing the cattank and try to transmit as much mechanic's knowledge and language translation as she possibly can, before (barring their finding a cure, which I very much hope will be the way out of this) she becomes incapacitated.
(I had an additional thought on this; but I posted it in the Character Development: Tuuri thread.)
Oh you’re right, as soon as Tuuri goes into coma because of the illness the only way to communicate with Lalli will be through his (very) limited Swedish. If Lalli felt alone before, how isn't he going to feel until they manage to save Tuuri.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 05, 2017, 06:09:42 PM
Oh you’re right, as soon as Tuuri goes into coma because of the illness the only way to communicate with Lalli will be through his (very) limited Swedish. If Lalli felt alone before, how isn't he going to feel until they manage to save Tuuri.
Lalli can communicate with Reynir in the dreamspace, but I don't see him wanting to, especially in grief. It's also not that useful for scouting, as they can't bring the maps in there with them.
But yes, Tuuri will be needed for her mechanical abilities while they still have her available. This is another impetus to not apply the serum immediately. She is Finnish, showing considerable sisu here for the moment (perhaps indistinguishable from shock), and I can see the practicality coming to the fore.
Still, chapter break, now?!? Nuuuu...
Post by: thorny on January 05, 2017, 06:39:59 PM
Still, chapter break, now?!?
I had almost managed to forget about that author's comment.
Yeah, that's going to be a hard one.
Post by: Antillanka on January 05, 2017, 07:47:39 PM
I had almost managed to forget about that author's comment.
Yeah, that's going to be a hard one.
Idk, Minna hasn't talked about breaks nor dates yet, maybe it will be a short one (PLEASE!)
Post by: Unlos on January 06, 2017, 12:11:02 PM
Post by: JoB on January 06, 2017, 12:43:28 PM
Oh you’re right, as soon as Tuuri goes into coma because of the illness the only way to communicate with Lalli will be through his (very) limited Swedish.Actually it seems to me that Mikkel's on top of everyday radio operating, which would allow for (crew) <--> Mikkel <-(radio)-> Trond/Siv/Torbjörn <--> Taru <-(radio)-> Lalli, even if Tuuri and Onni were incapacitated.
Post by: Gaemmel on January 06, 2017, 12:50:51 PM
How will we surive this?
Post by: Vafhudr on January 06, 2017, 12:51:43 PM
Post by: Fauna on January 06, 2017, 01:41:10 PM
And then in the stillness, the creature who were once many remembered.
It remembered the waiting, that had never ended. The hope that had flickered out over the course of what felt like lifetimes, and the rotting of the world that told it that nothing, and no one were left to help them.
But the worst thing was the images. The old ones. From before. They flickered like bats under streetlights, there in an instant and gone the next - images of loved faces, of whom they once were and of the sun, the precious, precious sunlight. They had covered them with fear and contempt, and with anger. There had been so much anger. Anger was good - it had distracted from the anguish. But all of that had been seared away, by harsh fire, by the sun that forced them to SEE, what they had tried their damnest to forget. They felt the crushed hope in their hearts again, and reached - feebly, desperately - for the ghostly images that re-surfaced, as if they could somehow re-claim that old life without the pain.
And a faint realization whispered in the back of their minds. Yes, they had followed the living out of hunger. The hunger was good - it distracted from the anguish. But they realized, in the midst of their remembering, that there had been a flicker of hope. The one with the braid. And the stealthy one. They reminded them of something intangible, something Beyond, something that should have been their birthright. Was it peace? They didn't know, and that had made it worse.
The fire had burned away all the good things. The anger and the hunger. Even the fear. And there was only the anguish, at bottomless as the night.
A faint static cracked the air. Once, it would have been a voice, and it slashed through the silence. It clicked for a moment. Before they remembered words. They spoke to the darkness, and the void. Called out to mothers and fathers, spouses, friends, even the faint recognition of themselves, to whomever appeared in the silvers they remembered. They spoke to a God that had forsaken them all.
".... help. Help me. Is there anybody there. "
Post by: Róisín on January 06, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 06, 2017, 04:22:25 PM
Also, I thought of something: if Tuuri ends up being saved by some kind of complete cure, she'll be the first person to be cured (for real, not slow brain death style), in history of humankind, and that would mean the crew will coming back with something REALLY impressive under their belts.
Post by: JoB on January 06, 2017, 04:47:31 PM
if Tuuri ends up being saved by some kind of complete cure, she'll be the first person to be cured (for real, not slow brain death style), in history of humankind, and that would mean the crew will coming back with something REALLY impressive under their belts.Which is a problem because if they'ld return rich and famous and whatnot, there wouldn't be any more incentive for them to go out into the Silent World, which runs afoul of Minnas plans to have them live through several more story arcs. ;)
From that perspective, it'ld be much better if Tuuris cure worked along the lines of "for the rest of your life, once a year, you need to find a troll who has never met a human since it turned, and eat it raw." O_o
Post by: Fauna on January 06, 2017, 05:14:01 PM
Which is a problem because if they'ld return rich and famous and whatnot, there wouldn't be any more incentive for them to go out into the Silent World, which runs afoul of Minnas plans to have them live through several more story arcs. ;)Being rich and famous wasn't their incentive, though. Neither was finding a cure. Well, except for Emil, of course. But Lalli and Reynir didn't even want to be there. Sigrun went because she thought it'd be fun. And Tuuri just wanted to see the world a little bit, and has been plenty disillusioned in the past few pages. Who knows why Mikkel signed up, maybe for the medical knowledge of the Old World? But he doesn't strike me as the "fame and fortune" kind of guy.
From that perspective, it'ld be much better if Tuuris cure worked along the lines of "for the rest of your life, once a year, you need to find a troll who has never met a human since it turned, and eat it raw." O_o
So it's not a problem. They'd just go looking for other interesting things. Plenty of books left in the Old World... maybe next time they'll be commissioned to find books that are actually useful rather than just expensive.
Post by: Vafhudr on January 06, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
Which is a problem because if they'ld return rich and famous and whatnot, there wouldn't be any more incentive for them to go out into the Silent World, which runs afoul of Minnas plans to have them live through several more story arcs. ;)
From that perspective, it'ld be much better if Tuuris cure worked along the lines of "for the rest of your life, once a year, you need to find a troll who has never met a human since it turned, and eat it raw." O_o
No no. It's fine.
They will have only enough to cure Tuuri - but Tuuri will be the proof of concept they need to venture forth back into the silent world and investigate thoroughly the lead they have found.
They are on a timer now. Not only do they need to cure Tuuri, but they have to cure her AND make it back to their extraction point in time before they are left stranded in the Silent World.
Finding something resembling a cure will be just enough to justify a second, real expedition - perhaps with real funding this time!
Post by: Aileil on January 06, 2017, 07:37:01 PM
Lalli and Reynir didn't even want to be there. Sigrun went because she thought it'd be fun. And Tuuri just wanted to see the world a little bit, and has been plenty disillusioned in the past few pages. Who knows why Mikkel signed up, maybe for the medical knowledge of the Old World? But he doesn't strike me as the "fame and fortune" kind of guy.
Mikkel is one of the most mysterious in the group (in that he is so....normal). I mean, yes, he's been fired a lot, but he still seems better socially adjusted, he has a more well-rounded education than any of the others, he has good family instincts, and so on. I hadn't really pondered it to much, but now your comment has me wondering: What exactly does he want out of this trip/life in general?
Post by: Vafhudr on January 06, 2017, 07:48:00 PM
Mikkel is one of the most mysterious in the group (in that he is so....normal). I mean, yes, he's been fired a lot, but he still seems better socially adjusted, he has a more well-rounded education than any of the others, he has good family instincts, and so on. I hadn't really pondered it to much, but now your comment has me wondering: What exactly does he want out of this trip/life in general?
Money. Perhaps not fame and fortune, but having no stable jobs and ever dwindling prospects due to his track record it's probably either this or going back to farming for Mikkel.
Post by: Aileil on January 06, 2017, 08:01:40 PM
Money. Perhaps not fame and fortune, but having no stable jobs and ever dwindling prospects due to his track record it's probably either this or going back to farming for Mikkel.You may be right, he does seem to appreciate getting in on the action now and then, even if he is the cautious/level-headed one. You probably don't get too much action farming. :)
Post by: Ragnarok on January 06, 2017, 08:06:14 PM
Mikkel is one of the most mysterious in the group (in that he is so....normal). I mean, yes, he's been fired a lot, but he still seems better socially adjusted, he has a more well-rounded education than any of the others, he has good family instincts, and so on. I hadn't really pondered it to much, but now your comment has me wondering: What exactly does he want out of this trip/life in general?
There is a theory- don't recall who originated it- that Mikkel is actually an agent of the Nordic Council. The Danish James Bond, if you will.
Post by: Fauna on January 06, 2017, 08:11:39 PM
Money. Perhaps not fame and fortune, but having no stable jobs and ever dwindling prospects due to his track record it's probably either this or going back to farming for Mikkel.The guy must really hate farming then, if he's willing to head into the Silent World with a handful of oddballs. Especially after the defeat of the entire Danish military effort. Especially since he's worked as a field medic. Mikkel is the only one who went out of his own free will and who is neither naive or battle-crazy.
Eh, maybe you're right. But he does seem to be very interested in the possibility of a cure - he took a lot of interest in that book of medical records, and he was the guy who left the two non-immune kids alone in the tank while searching for the serum in Copenhagen, on his own and without mentioning it to anyone. I suspect that the idea of finding a cure was the whole reason why he agreed join to begin with.
... but Tronds reason for calling the guy up... it's not like there were flyers around, they got cherry-picked for being the right kind of idiots..
Post by: Fauna on January 06, 2017, 08:14:07 PM
There is a theory- don't recall who originated it- that Mikkel is actually an agent of the Nordic Council. The Danish James Bond, if you will.I've had the same feeling for a while. Would explain his many odd jobs.
... or, he just USED to be an agent, and got fired, and finding a cure in the Silent World would restore his reputation?
Post by: Vafhudr on January 06, 2017, 08:27:35 PM
The guy must really hate farming then, if he's willing to head into the Silent World with a handful of oddballs. Especially after the defeat of the entire Danish military effort. Especially since he's worked as a field medic. Mikkel is the only one who went out of his own free will and who is neither naive or battle-crazy.
Eh, maybe you're right. But he does seem to be very interested in the possibility of a cure - he took a lot of interest in that book of medical records, and he was the guy who left the two non-immune kids alone in the tank while searching for the serum in Copenhagen, on his own and without mentioning it to anyone. I suspect that the idea of finding a cure was the whole reason why he agreed join to begin with.
... but Tronds reason for calling the guy up... it's not like there were flyers around, they got cherry-picked for being the right kind of idiots..
The right kind of desperate people as well.
Not everyone is made for farming. Not everyone like getting early in the morning, deal with animals, and deal with the attendant odours and so on. His willingness to take on any job suggests to me that he has been trying to get off the farm - for what reason, I would not know. Family, maybe. Perhaps there isn't enough good land left now for him to start his own farm and he didn't inherit any of the family property.
I could also see that a reason Mikkel keeps getting in trouble is precisely because he keeps doing things on his own. He is probably a bit too independent for the taste of any organization relying on hierarchy and obedience.
As for the possibility of a cure - who wouldn't be interested in that? Mikkel probably appreciates that aspect more than anyone else as someone who has tended to the wounded and sick.
Post by: Róisín on January 06, 2017, 09:44:10 PM
We'll see how Minna writes him.
And as for Tuuri, might be that by the time the tank is repaired and they have tried whatever they try on Tuuri herself, they arrive at the rendezvous point just in time to see the ship hull-down on the horizon, having been called back, or avoiding a leviathan, or refusing to take aboard a potential troll, or whatever.
Post by: Aileil on January 07, 2017, 02:39:26 AM
Secret agent is how I've done him in ficsA) It would be awesome if he were a secret agent. (I love secret agents generally, but find many of them to be horrible people personally, but I love Mikkel).
B) I would like to take a look at one of your fics in the near-ish future. What are they called/where might I find them easily?
C) If he were to play Pandemic, I see him as either the Researcher or the Coordinator (though he'd grump a bit about taking the latter role).
D) Crossing fingers for Turri's solution, yikes.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on January 07, 2017, 02:56:09 AM
B) I would like to take a look at one of your fics in the near-ish future. What are they called/where might I find them easily?Look here (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=943.msg131120#msg131120).
Post by: Róisín on January 07, 2017, 03:09:45 AM
Edit: 'The All-Encompassing Fan-Fiction Index'.
Post by: Lazy8 on January 07, 2017, 07:31:24 AM
There are a few in the Scriptorium here on the Forum, under Róisín, and on Archive of our own under 'Tanist'. The story there is called 'A Few of Mikkel's Secrets'. It's way back in the early days of the thread. LooNEY DAC has explored similar themes in some of his stories, as have a few other authors. You might find some of those in Lazy 8's Fan Fiction Index? Try there under the heading for Mikkel-Centric stories.
Edit: 'The All-Encompassing Fan-Fiction Index'.
Might be easier to look stuff by author, actually, since all the stats are listed under author entries.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 07, 2017, 02:28:01 PM
Might be easier to look stuff by author, actually, since all the stats are listed under author entries.
True, IF you remember the author, but the original query wondered who had posited Mikkel as a secret agent, so checking for Mikkel-centric stories would be the option for that search. Hence the delight of all the ways you've sliced-n-diced the data.
Post by: |Yucca| on January 08, 2017, 05:41:35 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on January 08, 2017, 06:04:53 PM
I have mixed feeling about the ending page of this chapter. The panels showing the night turning into a sunrise surely looks cool, but on the other hand, we are completely left out of seeing Mikkel's, Sigrun's and Emil's first reactions to the situation inside the cat-tank. Something I personally really would've wanted to see.
Same. Regardless whether the troll or Lalli injured Tuuri, it's a very, very important moment for the team (and if it is the troll, doubly so). No mixed feelings here, I'm straight up disappointed.
Post by: Vafhudr on January 08, 2017, 06:31:14 PM
The night has ended. The battle is over. We have seen the casualties. The ramifications will have to wait for the next chapter.
Post by: |Yucca| on January 08, 2017, 06:38:33 PM
I mean, we just got to watch the death of Sleipnope.
The night has ended. The battle is over. We have seen the casualties. The ramifications will have to wait for the next chapter.
If Sleipnope in fact died right now, that would be really anti-climatic in my opinion. All the buildup with its' travels and changing forms leading to what? An end after a single question asked to Lalli and a magical knife cut received.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 08, 2017, 06:43:20 PM
Also re: death of Sleipnope, I don't actually enjoy seeing trolls die drawn out painful deaths, and this is the second explicit one we get. These used to be people and we don't know how conscious they still are. I wish all this troll cruelty will come back and bite our team in the behind eventually, but somehow I doubt it's that kind of comic.
Post by: Vafhudr on January 08, 2017, 06:59:51 PM
As for the knife wound - I don't know how magic works but he is clearly not having a fun time. He is literally melting from the inside out.
Also I don't see how this is resolving a serious situation off-screen. To have immediate reactions would add nothing to this scene. You would just get people rushing and bustling to give her first aid and maybe some gawking. That is a very odd criticism to mount against this scene - or the comic in general.
Post by: |Yucca| on January 08, 2017, 07:29:12 PM
Also I don't see how this is resolving a serious situation off-screen. To have immediate reactions would add nothing to this scene. You would just get people rushing and bustling to give her first aid and maybe some gawking. That is a very odd criticism to mount against this scene - or the comic in general.
The immediate actions would be like that, indeed. But what about some minutes later, or an hour later? Skipping straight to the morning though, is an entirely different story. There's so many feels to feel after an accident like that. What did they do for rest of the night? They also have a ton of issues that need immediate care, why not show that to us readers?
Also, what about the situation back at the Västerström residence? Surely someone would've woken up when Kokko went through Onni as it looked like he was screaming in pain. The scene of the other members of the support team finding Onni all charred up in the living room would've been very interesting to see.
Post by: Keeper on January 08, 2017, 08:30:21 PM
Post by: |Yucca| on January 08, 2017, 08:37:55 PM
Perhaps all of that would have been difficult to communicate at this point in the chapter. It's coming to an end, and the mood is quiet, dark, and somber. Dealing with Tuuri's injury or checking on Onni would turn the scene urgent, disrupting the current mood and maybe the pace of the last few pages. So hopefully we'll see at least a bit in the next chapter, where it can be used to set the mood.
You're right about the shift in mood that would've happened had there been more pages to this chapter. But, like mentioned above, this last page advanced the time so much it basically skips over all the most urgent matters. It could've been done like the chapter change between chapters 8 and 9 though, where chapter 8 ended quite peacefully (even with the threat of that one flat troll on its way) and chapter 9 continued right where the last one ended. For some reason though, Minna chose differently this time.
Post by: Antillanka on January 08, 2017, 09:13:06 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 08, 2017, 09:29:01 PM
I don't think Sleipnope is dead at all, at least the way I saw it, Sleip was reuniting his forces. Sure, he seems wounded, but notdead in any waythat was dumb, it's undead haha, but you got my meaning.
I agree. I'm not counting Sleipnope out just yet.
Post by: Róisín on January 08, 2017, 10:02:45 PM
And once more Minna has done something different and interesting with a common trope in such tales: normally, scenes of this sort are set in the falling dusk, the lives going out with the light. She sets the scene against the first light and colours of the dawn. Yes, it induces the 'pity and terror' which the old Greek dramatists considered appropriate for such things. Yet it also seems to me to contain elements of hope. The growing light and colour are part of that, but did you notice that in the foreground of the last scene with Sleipnope, those two beasts look a lot more like normal animals than beasts usually do, as the beast-dog did when it came to Emil, as against how it looked in the school? Maybe the fire-and-iron light of Kokko serves the same purpose as sunlight?
I agree that the place for seeing what happened to Tuuri, Onni and the others is at the start of the new chapter, among what passes for mundane life in this tale, whereas that space in the last scene could only be called liminal. As I see it, for all that the story Minna is telling contains fluff and friendship and light-hearted moments amid the basic travel and adventure elements, she isn't making a trivial tale. She is building a quest saga. Sagas need their darkness to contrast and strengthen their lighter elements.
Sc0ut, I would read you from your art and conversation as a gentle-souled and sensitive person who hates to see suffering, possibly because it is too familiar to you in real life, so I think I understand how you feel. But don't give up on Minna's work yet. The story is still only beginning. I think as the characters develop they will be shown thinking more about these issues. Perhaps, Lalli, Sigrun and Mikkel already do - they have experience in the world outside the cities and fortified camps. Remember Sigrun talking about why she didn't join the navy, because she hated the way it was necessary to kill seabeasts, by beaching them? And I suspect that Reynir, having lived his life on a farm, understands about killing in mercy being sometimes necessary. Emil comes across as an innately compassionate lad under his superficial layer of rich brat. Actually, Tuuri seems to have most to learn in this respect, and if she survives this experience it may school her in consideration for other beings.
Post by: Jharad17 on January 08, 2017, 11:35:09 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on January 09, 2017, 12:07:55 AM
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=656 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=656)
What I have in mind could be conveyed by this animation of Night on Bald Mountain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCuL-K39eQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCuL-K39eQ)
And to this I would add the following.
I don't expect any huge emotional scene in the next chapter either. I think the colour scheme for the next section bit has already been hinted at. Grey and soft pink. A cold, somber dawn. That time of the day where everyone speaks in whispers almost out of the respect for the still sleeping world. I expect deliberation between the crew and the base camp at the Vasterstorm household. Maybe Onni will flip his proverbial shit, but I suspect that he is out for the count for a bit - which will add to the confusion since he is the most competent and knowledgeable in magical and spiritual matters. In invoking his help, they may have lost him as an adviser for the next part. The next part will be either hurrying to the extraction point, or as I speculated before, to do so but with the additional side quest of resolving the ghost nurse's backstory and her possible link to a cure that was lost, we presume, in the hasty evacuation 10 years ago or whenever it was that the Danes made their last big push.
But that depends on whether Tuuri develops symptoms or not. It maybe that she does not immediately, but her condition worsens as they travel - which would then make extraction pretty much impossible - without removing Tuuri, that is.
Cool and only faintly warm colours. Uncertainty, confusion, anxiety and stress. Perhaps even tension in the group. That is what I foresee after the break.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 09, 2017, 04:06:15 AM
The others' reactions would likely just have been a bunch of "Oh no"s and hand wringing and "What if"s that would have broken the solemn silence of the chapter's ending.
Really? When have we ever seen these people go "oh no" and engage in hand wringing? You'd have a hard time finding a set of protagonists less inclined to fretting and despair even when they have very good reason to (with the exception of Emil in social situations). It would be interesting to see who tries to help, who looks for a scapegoat, who blames themselves, who remains optimistic, etc. It would be damn interesting to see what Tuuri herself does, once the immediate shock wears off! In a character-driven story like this one, even very mundane moments can be important. And this one's actually far from mundane, considering we've had entire pages dedicated to cleaning the tank, navigating difficult terrain etc. Somehow Minna decided those were worth showing "on screen" but the reaction to Tuuri's injury (and the tank taking some heavy damage, compromising everyone's safety until it's fixed) somehow isn't? Excuse me if I can't wrap my head around this decision. Again, I'm not criticizing pushing all that to the next chapter - that makes sense, as you could make an entire chapter of just their reactions to this battle. But it looks like it's going to be skipped rather than addressed. We might end up with Tuuri's shoulder bandaged, a silent montage of them repairing the floor, and none of this mentioned again. Think it's unlikely? It's exactly what happened after the first ghost panic when half of them passed out.
Anyway, we'll see in a week or so.
Post by: Lazy8 on January 09, 2017, 07:21:26 AM
Also re: death of Sleipnope, I don't actually enjoy seeing trolls die drawn out painful deaths, and this is the second explicit one we get. These used to be people and we don't know how conscious they still are. I wish all this troll cruelty will come back and bite our team in the behind eventually, but somehow I doubt it's that kind of comic.
Wishing for the "troll cruelty" to "come back and bite our team in the behind"? Okay, sorry, no, I can't agree with that at all. I don't think anybody, in the audience or in-story, has been "enjoying seeing trolls die drawn out painful deaths", and from the way those deaths are presented in-story we're not supposed to, at all.
Every time the protagonists have put down a troll or a beast, it wasn't wanton cruelty, it was a legitimate act of self-defense. They have to go into dangerous troll-infested places in order to do the job they were hired for, but the whole reason they have a scout is so they can avoid trouble if at all possible. Former human or not, Sleipnope still crossed what looks like a whole country for no apparent reason for the sole purpose of attacking a group of humans who'd done nothing worse than walk into a building unaware; whatever it is you're actually saying here, it sounds a whole lot like you want everyone in the group to be punished for not letting themselves get murdered by an army.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 09, 2017, 07:44:43 AM
Sure, there's also the possibility that the trolls are conscious but suffering in their current state, so killing them in literally any way is still a mercy. We just don't know at this point. I think it will be relevant at some point though, judging by how much Minna shows us dying/suffering trolls and ghosts.
Post by: Lazy8 on January 09, 2017, 08:04:40 AM
Lazy8, I'm not criticizing the group for anything really. Sometimes even the best or only solution to a difficult problem is still cruel as hell. Killing water beasts by beaching them is one of those. What the Icelandic ship did to the boat of refugees in the prologue is another case (though they could have put them into quarantine instead, so that was just the safest/cheapest solution, arguably not the best). They are both understandable to different degrees, but still cruel. Self defense justifies cruelty, but it doesn't erase it. I might do the same in their place (when it comes to most of the trolls, not the refugees), but still feel bad about it. Is this more comprehensible? :)
It's more comprehensible, but I still don't get what you meant by hoping that things would bite them in the behind? Because that sounded a lot to me like you thought they ought to be somehow punished by the narrative.
The trolls and ghosts have exhibited a fair amount of cruelty as well, themselves. Leaftroll risked the cold and snow and sunlight of the outside, all to track down a vehicle that was just passing through. Why did it need to do that? If it had just stayed hibernating in its nice warm pod rather than trying to bite Reynir's face off it need never have died. Krakentroll viciously tried to drown Sigrun, and the whole reason it got beached in the first place was because it insisted on chasing her after she got away. I don't even know what Sleipnope's deal is, but it seems to know exactly what it's doing, given the time and effort it went to to assemble an army (and then outright taunted Lalli!). You do feel bad for them when they die, but I really can't believe that the heroes deserve any sort of comeuppance for surviving these encounters.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 09, 2017, 08:27:56 AM
I don't see trolls as being cruel and vicious, no more than a wild animal is when it kills something (or someone). It seems in their nature to be predatory, though they also seem to have somewhat higher (or different) intelligence than an animal's. It's difficult to make any morality judgement on them, but just as I wouldn't enjoy seeing a lion tied up and slowly starve to death, even if the same lion just tried to kill me, I don't enjoy seeing all the brutal slow deaths of some of the beasts, and I wonder why Minna emphasizes them so much.
Post by: Lazy8 on January 09, 2017, 09:20:24 AM
What I meant is more along the lines of "I would like to see this necessary cruelty have some consequences".
What I'm trying to figure out is what exactly you mean by "consequences".
Do you want physical consequences? Because those have already happened. Tuuri accidentally hit a troll with the tank; in return its brethren came after them and nearly skewered Emil. Sigrun and Mikkel hacked something they thought was dead, and Sigrun got thrashed immediately after.
Do you want the characters to express regret for what they've had to do? Because they have. There was that scene with Emil and the dog, and Sigrun's dialogue on why she never went into seafaring. It's subtle, but it's there. And personally, I prefer subtle.
And if I'm completely off the mark, then what do you mean?
Quote
I don't see trolls as being cruel and vicious, no more than a wild animal is when it kills something (or someone). It seems in their nature to be predatory, though they also seem to have somewhat higher (or different) intelligence than an animal's.
I can see that being the case with the trolls, but not with Sleipnope, which has definitely displayed human level intelligence - and yes, conscious cruelty ("Are you less weak this time?"). Those were not the actions of a wild animal acting on instinct, but of a calculated intelligence.
Quote
It's difficult to make any morality judgement on them, but just as I wouldn't enjoy seeing a lion tied up and slowly starve to death, even if the same lion just tried to kill me, I don't enjoy seeing all the brutal slow deaths of some of the beasts, and I wonder why Minna emphasizes them so much.
I don't think the characters enjoy it either - but in their case, it's either leave that lion tied up or it'll immediately try to eat them again.
Personally, I don't mind the emphasis because to me, it does highlight the sympathetic situation of the trolls as opposed to portraying them as nothing more than targets to be mowed down guiltlessly. But then again, that's my reading.
I guess a lot of what's bothering me is that it is self-defense, and when you say you want to see "consequences", it somehow trips just the right synapses to bring to mind a lot of RL reactions people have to anyone who hurts another human in self-defense, which I'm not going to get into here.
Post by: Lazy8 on January 09, 2017, 09:38:02 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on January 09, 2017, 10:52:11 AM
What I'm trying to figure out is what exactly you mean by "consequences".
Do you want physical consequences? Because those have already happened. Tuuri accidentally hit a troll with the tank; in return its brethren came after them and nearly skewered Emil. Sigrun and Mikkel hacked something they thought was dead, and Sigrun got thrashed immediately after.
Do you want the characters to express regret for what they've had to do? Because they have. There was that scene with Emil and the dog, and Sigrun's dialogue on why she never went into seafaring. It's subtle, but it's there. And personally, I prefer subtle.
And if I'm completely off the mark, then what do you mean?
See, you keep thinking I have a problem with all the times they ever hurt a troll, and I don't. I don't think it's cruelty that they hacked into the troll limbs that looked like tree roots - that is very much an honest mistake. I don't even mind that they shoot or stab trolls that are directly attacking them - that's perfectly justified and usually a fast death. I am mostly bothered by the beached troll (there might be others too but I can't remember now). And while I agree that Emil shows compassion towards the grosslings (hey, he's my favorite for plenty of good reasons) I don't think Sigrun displayed any compassion when she told them about the way to dispose of water beasts. I read that as her not wanting to do it because it's boring/lacking in glory. But then I read Sigrun as a high functioning psychopath, so there's that.
What I mean is basically, I want to see the trolls' perspective on this. I want to see how aware they are of what's going on, and how in control they are of their own actions. I want to see if they try to reach out to humans (the calls for help suggest that they do). What if their mind is so twisted that they interpret the violence they do as "reaching out"? In fantasy or sci-fi, even a highly intelligent creature might not be in full control of its own actions for a variety of reasons, which is why I'm not sure they're cruel and malevolent. They might be controlled by forces outside their will.
I'm sorry you can't disentangle this from discussions about hurting humans in self-defense. It has common points but it's certainly a different discussion. I'll agree that this is not the place to go into that.
Post by: Róisín on January 09, 2017, 12:18:56 PM
For what it is worth, what I take from the story so far is that the rash disease has, if not an actual thinking conscious mind, at the least some kind of tropism-level awareness which subsumes and overwhelms the consciousness of the infected organism, controlling the actions of the host but perhaps not completely extinguishing the mind and spirit, leaving the victims to be carried along helplessly in their bodies. That must feel like several kinds of hell, especially if the human or animal infected has occasional moments of clarity. Hence the cries of 'Help me!', the screaming in the airwaves, the dog turning aside from savaging Emil.
Perhaps it is a sliding scale of awareness, with at one end the sort of tropic reaction one sees in the zombie ants of our worlds' Amazon forests, where ants infected by the fungus, once the mycelial threads enter their brains and nervous systems, abandon their usual safe, shaded concealment on the forest floor and instead climb a tall grass stem to which they attach themselves by their jaws, and then die, exposed to the wind which will spread the spores of the fungus to other ants. At the other end of the scale, we have Sleipnope remembering Lalli, and taunting him with his helplessness during the first attack.
We have, as yet, no idea in-story of the precise nature of the disease organism, or of the way it works. My guess would be either some sort of experimental medical treatment gone horribly wrong, or a parasite, or even a symbiont, trying to colonise a type of organism to which it is not quite suited.
Maybe the resurgence of magic in the world has something to do with this? Who knows?
Post by: Vafhudr on January 09, 2017, 01:13:22 PM
Post by: Jharad17 on January 09, 2017, 05:31:39 PM
Really? When have we ever seen these people go "oh no" and engage in hand wringing? You'd have a hard time finding a set of protagonists less inclined to fretting and despair even when they have very good reason to (with the exception of Emil in social situations). It would be interesting to see who tries to help, who looks for a scapegoat, who blames themselves, who remains optimistic, etc.
I was thinking about Reynir and Emil, in the "oh no"s club, but you're right, handwringing isn't any of their styles. I didn't phrase it very well, but I was more thinking along the lines of your last sentence there, with the recriminations and forced optimism and so forth that could happen. Mikkel, I would guess, will be somber, and not pull any punches, Sigrun will be either looking for something to do to fix things or she'll be blasé about it: "Well, this happened. Thought it would." But we'll know in a week or so, like you said.
Post by: Lazy8 on January 09, 2017, 05:50:48 PM
I am mostly bothered by the beached troll (there might be others too but I can't remember now). And while I agree that Emil shows compassion towards the grosslings (hey, he's my favorite for plenty of good reasons) I don't think Sigrun displayed any compassion when she told them about the way to dispose of water beasts. I read that as her not wanting to do it because it's boring/lacking in glory. But then I read Sigrun as a high functioning psychopath, so there's that.
I read her differently, but that's another discussion entirely.
The necessity I see in the beached troll is this: the only thing they could have done for it at that point is gone back and killed it. The quickest and most practical way to do that is with a gun, but there's already been a lot of in-universe emphasis on why there are no shots fired unless absolutely necessary, and putting a troll out of its misery shouldn't justify putting their own lives in danger, so that's out. Emil setting it on fire would only make its death more miserable (if quicker), and given that it's a water monster we don't know whether it would even catch. So the only option left is with a knife, and to do that they'd have to get close to it. Just because it's stranded that doesn't mean it's helpless; that troll could still hurt anyone who got within striking distance (and that particular troll has quite a bit of reach). It would also take time, especially if they have to fight it to get to its head, and right now they're outside at night in the middle of winter, with a person already at risk of hypothermia and in need of medical attention, two hours' walk away from the nearest shelter. I read the context of that scene is that it's regrettable, but they have to put their own safety first.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 10, 2017, 09:02:08 AM
What if Tuuri is actually immune, and Onni's been lying to her her entire life in an attempt to 'keep her safe?'
That is all. Time for zzzzzzzzz.
Post by: Vafhudr on January 10, 2017, 09:09:03 AM
Post by: JacobThomsen on January 10, 2017, 10:51:10 AM
Wild, crazy, insane theory that occurred to me just before switching off the computer and going to bed.
What if Tuuri is actually immune, and Onni's been lying to her her entire life in an attempt to 'keep her safe?'
That actually kind of sound like something the overprotective side of Onni could be capable of
Post by: Vafhudr on January 10, 2017, 11:01:50 AM
Post by: MR. RAGE on January 10, 2017, 11:22:49 AM
Wild, crazy, insane theory that occurred to me just before switching off the computer and going to bed.
What if Tuuri is actually immune, and Onni's been lying to her her entire life in an attempt to 'keep her safe?'
That is all. Time for zzzzzzzzz.
That would be quite the psych out.
That actually kind of sound like something the overprotective side of Onni could be capable of
I have to agree; that would be quite the twist, and it's not impossible, knowing what we know of Onni. It's also not impossible, genetically-speaking. I'm not in any way a geneticist, but I remember enough of high school science to know how Mendelian heredity works. The pamphlet we get regarding the Dagrenning program on page 300 (http://sssscomic.com/comicpages/300.jpg) makes me think that that immunity might be a recessive genetic trait. The quoted interview from Anna Sigríður Einarsdóttir says that her husband is immune, and a donor egg would guarantee immunity for their child. To me, this implies that Anna Einarsdóttir is either completely nonimmune, or is simply a carrier for immunity (which would still not guarantee an immune child, even with an immune partner).
We know that Lalli is immune (as is Taru). And if we look at family tree over on page 629, (http://www.sssscomic.com/comicpages/629.jpg) this means that Lalli's parents (Tuulikki and Jukka Hotakainen) were either completely immune themselves, or were carriers, or were a mixture of the two. If we assume that Jukka is/was at the very least a carrier for immunity, the same might be said of his brother Juha, Tuuri and Onni's father. And if their mother happened to also be a carrier, then Tuuri might very well be immune. It's possible that the split occurred a generation before, that Jukka Hotakainen was immune while Juha wasn't, but if Tuuri and Onni's parents were at the very least carriers, it's possible.
Mendelian genetics is vastly oversimplified and as I've previously said, I have no background in genetics whatsoever. It's very likely that I have no idea what I'm talking about! But it is genetically possible, however unlikely, that Tuuri is immune while Onni is not.
EDIT: And I completely missed JoB's fine post (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=17.msg132162#msg132162) over in the Tuuri Character Development thread, where some of the same conclusions were drawn.
Post by: Anna on January 10, 2017, 04:32:19 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 10, 2017, 06:21:05 PM
EDIT: And I completely missed JoB's fine post (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=17.msg132162#msg132162) over in the Tuuri Character Development thread, where some of the same conclusions were drawn.
Annnnnnnnd so did I! :D
Post by: MR. RAGE on January 11, 2017, 12:42:07 AM
Sounds… plausible, but slightly awkward; I'd presumed that most people would have been tested for immunity quite young and informed of their status by their parent(s)/guardian(s). On the assumption that this hypothesis is true, it's possible that Tuuri doesn't remember being told she was immune for whatever reason. How Onni's decision to lie about it came about and played out would be an interesting tale.
Oh, I agree completely. It's one heck of a longshot, and the chances that this is actually the case are incredibly slim. I'm simply pointing out that it's definitely possible looking at both genetics and the fact that Onni is the quintessential overprotective elder sibling.
Plus it allows me to cloak my denial in a thin veneer of respectability!
Post by: Coffee on January 11, 2017, 10:53:02 PM
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on January 11, 2017, 11:33:21 PM
I doubt they'd put tuuri in charge of watch. She's literally dying.
Post by: Windfighter on January 11, 2017, 11:53:58 PM
Anyway the page fills me with so many sad feels >:
Post by: Basse on January 12, 2017, 12:02:35 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on January 12, 2017, 01:21:36 AM
There's something very sad looking about the new chapter cover. Somehow even the colors seem muted and sorrowful to me??? And the way Emil (that's him right?) is kicking at the dirt... :'(
Definitely Emil judging by the uniform (he's the only one who has that "front is white, back is black" thing going on), though the body type is Mikkel's. I suspect Minna changed her mind somewhere between sketching and inking about who the character will be and forgot to adjust the sketch for it. Also, if you look carefully, the character's carrying a gun, so that suggests Emil again.
I doubt they'd put tuuri in charge of watch. She's literally dying.
Whoa there we literally don't know that yet.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on January 12, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Definitely Emil judging by the uniform (he's the only one who has that "front is white, back is black" thing going on), though the body type is Mikkel's. I suspect Minna changed her mind somewhere between sketching and inking about who the character will be and forgot to adjust the sketch for it. Also, if you look carefully, the character's carrying a gun, so that suggests Emil again.
Whoa there we literally don't know that yet.
Tuuri is pretty much infected now. Nothing we can do to change that. It just doesn't make sense in my brain why you'd put a skald who's never fought a troll and now dying in charge of making sure nothing gets through to the tank.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 12, 2017, 01:42:45 AM
And personally I'm sure the character on the cover is Emil, so she's not in charge of anything either way.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on January 12, 2017, 01:44:04 AM
As others have said, it's possible that her wound is a gunshot and not a troll bite. I think (though I'm no expert) that in this case, the bullet might be sterile due to the heat even though it passed through the troll. Even if it is a bite, infection might not be 100% guaranteed even at contact with a source of infection (this is the case with real life viruses too). To some degree, the body can protect itself even against very dangerous things.
As a man of firearms. I can safely say that the heat on a bullet would not kill the bacteria of troll blood.
Also the size of lallis rifle caliber. She shouldn't have a shoulder anymore. Just a bunch of splattered meat.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 12, 2017, 01:57:05 AM
Also @ rifle size, I don't know if you've noticed but the author is not anywhere near into weapons. Not saying this to put her down, but she doesn't even research the correct size and firing position for guns, why do you expect her to know or take into account what impact a certain caliber weapon would have at a certain distance? You probably know these things naturally if you work with guns often, but the rest of us have to research it carefully if we're to get it right, and sometimes it's hard to know WHAT to research.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on January 12, 2017, 01:58:59 AM
Okay, but it still remains that not all exposure to infectious things always gets you sick (though it is, of course, a risky gamble). And that's not even taking into account the theory that Tuuri might be actually immune. It's a comic that contains magic after all, you can't draw conclusions like you would in real life, especially since the illness seems to be at least partly magic in nature.Yep, the rash always seemed Metaphysical in a way.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 12, 2017, 02:00:40 AM
As others have said, it's possible that her wound is a gunshot and not a troll bite.
I'm fairly sure that you can trace the path of Lalli's bullet in one of the panels (I'm at work and can't look at the exact one right now, but it's just after the troll gets shot and has both Tuuri and Reynir in it).
There's a notch in the upper bunk, which points towards a splat on the wall, which I'm interpreting as where the bullet scored the bunk and them impacted.
Sadly it passes nowhere near Tuuri :(
Post by: Sc0ut on January 12, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
Post by: Róisín on January 12, 2017, 03:32:52 AM
Sc0ut has a good point about Minna and guns. Minna herself has said that she is not deeply learned in the subject. And we don't yet know much about the actual infecting organism(s) responsible for the rash, other than that magic is probably involved in some way. If, for instance the infecting agent is a prion rather than, say, a bacterium, we know those can survive cooking, so might well survive a tiny fraction of a second at bullet heat.
Post by: Miriam on January 12, 2017, 06:28:54 AM
Definitely Emil judging by the uniform (he's the only one who has that "front is white, back is black" thing going on), though the body type is Mikkel's. I suspect Minna changed her mind somewhere between sketching and inking about who the character will be and forgot to adjust the sketch for it. Also, if you look carefully, the character's carrying a gun, so that suggests Emil again.
Why is this even a discussion? It's obviously Mikkel, I doubt Minna has made it vague on purpose and I also doubt she "changed her mind". Sure, Mikkel doesn't carry weapons often, but it's not impossible.
Post by: Anna on January 12, 2017, 06:55:49 AM
Why is this even a discussion? It's obviously Mikkel, I doubt Minna has made it vague on purpose and I also doubt she "changed her mind". Sure, Mikkel doesn't carry weapons often, but it's not impossible.She also wouldn't make solid black shadows on the back of Mikkel's sleeves and pants; that's Emil's uniform, or I'm a gecko. Might not be Emil wearing it, but his is the only uniform with black in those places.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 12, 2017, 06:56:29 AM
Why is this even a discussion? It's obviously Mikkel, I doubt Minna has made it vague on purpose and I also doubt she "changed her mind". Sure, Mikkel doesn't carry weapons often, but it's not impossible.
Nobody but Emil has ever worn this uniform, and if there's one thing Minna doesn't mix up, it's the uniforms.
Post by: Dverghamrar on January 12, 2017, 09:41:45 AM
Nobody but Emil has ever worn this uniform, and if there's one thing Minna doesn't mix up, it's the uniforms.That's true, except Emil's boots are white, and in the cover they're black. I guess this is what's throwing everyone off. :)
As for me, I wonder if it's less about who the person is, and more about the mood Minna is setting. Maybe the intention was to combine a little bit of every crew member's uniform (or as many as she could fit) into one design.
Post by: JacobThomsen on January 12, 2017, 11:14:48 AM
As for me, I wonder if it's less about who the person is, and more about the mood Minna is setting. Maybe the intention was to combine a little bit of every crew member's uniform (or as many as she could fit) into one design.
That thought has crossed my mind too
Post by: Fauna on January 12, 2017, 02:06:51 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on January 12, 2017, 02:41:53 PM
Just in terms of size too, it's either Mikkel or Emil, since they are the ones with square-ish body types. But I would presume that Mikkel would be busy dealing with Tuuri, Lalli would also be busy with Tuuri, Sigrun, as commander, is probably also busy with the situation in the tank, and reynir is probably kept around as well because he was there when it happened.
Which means that it's Emil who gets the short straw and ends up doing guard duties while the team sorts this mess out.
Post by: Jharad17 on January 12, 2017, 09:14:24 PM
That's true, except Emil's boots are white, and in the cover they're black. I guess this is what's throwing everyone off. :)
As for me, I wonder if it's less about who the person is, and more about the mood Minna is setting. Maybe the intention was to combine a little bit of every crew member's uniform (or as many as she could fit) into one design.
That's not a bad idea, but I think you're right about the first part, too -- other than the boots, the rest of the uniform is Emil's, though without his bandolier. I thought it was Mikkel at first, because of boots and the stockiness of the figure, but I think I've changed my mind to Emil. Maybe his boots are just covered in ash and soot?
Post by: JoB on January 13, 2017, 11:38:18 AM
I'd presumed that most people would have been tested for immunity quite young and informed of their status by their parent(s)/guardian(s). On the assumption that this hypothesis is true, it's possible that Tuuri doesn't remember being told she was immune for whatever reason. How Onni's decision to lie about it came about and played out would be an interesting tale.If there is a test and unless there's some Hollywood science to make it undoable/unreliable until the patient has reached age X or somesuch (which would pretty much fly in the face of the hard either/or's we see in every other aspect of Rash and immunity), then we can assume that parents would want their children tested right after birth, if not sooner. Which is of course way too early for the child itself to remember it later on.
Second, we've seen people shuffle through paperwork of travelers, but there's no clear indication that a person's immunity status is being mirrored into a document as thoroughly as a person's identity is with ID cards and passports in our day.
Which brings us to the fact that when Tuuri was 10 and Lalli 8, they and Onni up and left Saimaa, leaving behind (presumably for dead) all relatives, all the clerks issuing their documents, their neighbors, MDs, everyone besides Onni and the hypothetical paperwork who could have told Tuuri about her immunity status if she did not already know full well at that point. (And even if she did, whatcha do when your older brother and head of the family tells you flat out that "you must be misremembering" ...)
Maybe his boots are just covered in ash and soot?With all that ash and soot stopping precisely at the fringe of the bootleg?
Post by: Jharad17 on January 13, 2017, 12:14:48 PM
With all that ash and soot stopping precisely at the fringe of the bootleg?
I didn't say it was a good theory. :p My real guess is Minna forgot what color Emil's boots were.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 14, 2017, 03:00:21 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 14, 2017, 06:51:02 AM
Which brings us to the fact that when Tuuri was 10 and Lalli 8, they and Onni up and left Saimaa, leaving behind (presumably for dead) all relatives, all the clerks issuing their documents, their neighbors, MDs, everyone besides Onni and the hypothetical paperwork who could have told Tuuri about her immunity status if she did not already know full well at that point. (And even if she did, whatcha do when your older brother and head of the family tells you flat out that "you must be misremembering" ...)
My thoughts exactly. Whatever happened to drive them out of Saimaa provides a perfect opportunity for Onni to completely rewrite their family history.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 14, 2017, 07:20:47 AM
Which brings us to the fact that when Tuuri was 10 and Lalli 8, they and Onni up and left Saimaa, leaving behind (presumably for dead) all relatives, all the clerks issuing their documents, their neighbors, MDs, everyone besides Onni and the hypothetical paperwork who could have told Tuuri about her immunity status if she did not already know full well at that point. (And even if she did, whatcha do when your older brother and head of the family tells you flat out that "you must be misremembering" ...)
A bunch of orphans who show up without any papers from the wilderness/a recently destroyed village and end up working for the military would get all the health tests done though, probably during the quarantine they must have went through when they first showed up in Keuruu. Can't risk just trusting them on their disease status, and immunity would probably get tested too.
Edit to clarify: Tuuri's REAL immunity status must be in the new papers she got when they re-joined civilization. Onni might have been able to lie to her as a kid, but as an adult it's much more difficult, because now she can get her hands on any official papers regarding her. Remember each team member had personal files when they joined the expedition, and Tuuri was curious about them. She must have checked out her own as well.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 14, 2017, 08:49:58 AM
A bunch of orphans who show up without any papers from the wilderness/a recently destroyed village and end up working for the military would get all the health tests done though, probably during the quarantine they must have went through when they first showed up in Keuruu. Can't risk just trusting them on their disease status, and immunity would probably get tested too.
Hmmm. Very good points. They can be worked around, but until we get more info from Minna it's really all just speculation, on all sides.
Roll on Monday! :D
Post by: Haspen on January 16, 2017, 03:40:49 PM
Post by: heiteru on January 16, 2017, 04:03:05 PM
Only one page into the chapter and I'm already at my saddest :C\going to be same\
Post by: JacobThomsen on January 16, 2017, 04:07:22 PM
Only one page into the chapter and I'm already at my saddest :C
I think that we're about to discover that Minna is just as good at creating sadness as she is at cliffhangers
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on January 16, 2017, 10:42:43 PM
On the other hand, we do have the "Chekhov's gun" of the church lady... I hope her function isn't to bring Tuuri to a peaceful death :(
Post by: Grade E cat on January 17, 2017, 10:21:08 AM
As for magical resolution, I have an idea of what it may be on the Icelandic magic front: you remember how the anti-ghost rune was originally a rune keeping sheep from straying too far away from the farm? Reynir may be able to figure out the "keeping the spirit inside the body when it really really wants to leave" variant, with the catch that the person has to wear the thing 24/7. Perfect for a temporary fix that will need to be improved upon by people who actually know magic. Shut up about the potency of the cure after ninety years, little chemistry education that I have! I guess that's what Lalli takes care of, or something?
Post by: Doldrum on January 18, 2017, 09:06:22 AM
Just thought of something: if I understood correctly, Reynir can see ghosts, but not "healthy" spirits. This may mean that if Tuuri is infected, she may reach a point where her spirit becomes visible to Reynir, possibly before the physical symptoms start showing up. Because of policy of keeping them apart, he may notice only once it's well underway.I hadn't thought of that possibility, but that would be... very interesting, and heartbreaking.
Post by: PaperArtillery on January 18, 2017, 02:16:08 PM
I think that we're about to discover that Minna is just as good at creating sadness as she is at cliffhangers
I thought that was a well-accepted fact by the end of the prologue. Or maybe that's just me that took it so hard.
Post by: Basse on January 18, 2017, 05:46:54 PM
Post by: JoB on January 18, 2017, 06:24:30 PM
On the other hand, we do have the "Chekhov's gun" of the church lady... I hope her function isn't to bring Tuuri to a peaceful death :(We have a bodyless nailed-into-place church lady and a potentially-soon-"brain-dead" Tuuri. Two damaged team members rolled into one fully functional one, mayhaps?
Post by: Doldrum on January 19, 2017, 03:39:26 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 19, 2017, 09:21:30 AM
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=373
I think Mikkel may have meant just avoiding having them outside at the same time, or at least too close to each other. But I'm wondering about the repairs on the electronics aspect of the floor as well.
Post by: Doldrum on January 19, 2017, 11:02:36 AM
There is at least one door that opens in the front, so I guess Tuuri will be using that.Hey, I didn't notice that! That solves some problems, at least, though the issue of the repair remains ( I really hope we get to see Tuuri apply her engineering skills to the tank, though.)
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=373
I think Mikkel may have meant just avoiding having them outside at the same time, or at least too close to each other. But I'm wondering about the repairs on the electronics aspect of the floor as well.
Post by: thorny on January 19, 2017, 12:55:25 PM
Or they could have her work on it while Reynir's outside, since they do seem to be assuming he'll go out sometimes; and then disinfect the area before letting him back in -- they must have disinfected it once already, no? it would have been full of fresh troll blood and brains.
-- while she'd have to be right there and probably handling at least some of what's being repaired, I also still think it would be better to have her coach somebody else through doing the actual repair work: not only would it be easier on her presumably sore shoulder, but the person being coached would get muscle practice at doing such work, which is more effective than just giving them verbal information. I hope she'll survive and it won't matter; but they can't afford not to act on the assumption that she might not.
I wonder whether the crew's going to figure out what's wrong with Onni and tell those present with him, or whether this is going to continue to be one of those failures to communicate that have plagued them all through the expedition. As Lalli seemed to recover without anyone's having figured out what was wrong, however, I hope the same will be true of Onni: maybe all that's really needed is time and a safe physical space to be unconscious in.
Post by: Fauna on January 19, 2017, 04:08:55 PM
Has Mikkel actually given up on her already but insisiting on the charade to keep morale from burning through the ground?
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 19, 2017, 05:53:59 PM
I wonder whether the crew's going to figure out what's wrong with Onni and tell those present with him, or whether this is going to continue to be one of those failures to communicate that have plagued them all through the expedition. As Lalli seemed to recover without anyone's having figured out what was wrong, however, I hope the same will be true of Onni: maybe all that's really needed is time and a safe physical space to be unconscious in.
Taru is probably perfectly aware of what's going on - note her comment about him not being hit by lightning - it's just that the Swedes likely don't want to listen.
Post by: Basse on January 19, 2017, 06:23:09 PM
Taru is probably perfectly aware of what's going on - note her comment about him not being hit by lightning - it's just that the Swedes likely don't want to listen.Well you know swedes, science can explain most things...
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on January 19, 2017, 07:24:18 PM
Why is Tuuri allowed to be in the cat tank without her mask on, if she is not automatically assumed to be infected? There's been troll brains in the cat tank and it spreads through breathing... Reynir is wearing his, so why isn't Tuuri...Troll gunk stops being infectious after a matter of hours. An infected human is continually infectious until death.
Has Mikkel actually given up on her already but insisiting on the charade to keep morale from burning through the ground?
Post by: Róisín on January 19, 2017, 09:52:34 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 20, 2017, 09:10:14 AM
Also, the more I think about it, the more I put my money on Reynir spilling the beans to Onni via dream-space. Lalli could be either told by Tuuri not to do it or take the initiative himself. Reynir is less likely to be directly told not to do it (I'm still not sure whether Sigrun and Tuuri actually take his mage powers seriously or not) and tends to treat Onni an older adult more than Tuuri does.
Post by: Róisín on January 20, 2017, 10:41:45 AM
Post by: thorny on January 20, 2017, 11:21:33 AM
I think Taru, Tuuri and Lalli all know what is going on with Onni.
Looking at today's page, it certainly does look like Tuuri does -- she's got no questions for them about what's going on with him, which I'd certainly expect if she had no idea; and she's got quote marks around "hit by lightning".
Just noticed something about this page: the central panel has Tuuri decide to keep Onni out of the loop about her troll bite, and it's followed by showing us the consequences of Sigrun doing exactly that to Mikkel.
That's an interesting thought -- though Tuuri's got a lot less reason to think Onni can do anything about the troll bite than Sigrun should have had to think Mikkel could do something about her wound.
And that sure is a nasty looking arm. Sigrun may be immune to the Rash, but it doesn't look like she's immune to other infections.
Post by: Buteo on January 20, 2017, 04:07:07 PM
You may well be right about that. Other possibility is that Lalli has figured out what Onni did, is worried about him, and asks Reynir to take him to Onni - possibly asking in dumb-show by pointing at Onni in the portrait and miming sleep? Since he would know better than to ask Tuuri to translate. The question would be whether Onni is conscious enough in his dream space to be told anything. At least Reynir saw what happened, so will be able to say something in Lalli's defense if Onni blows up at him about failing to defend Tuuri from being bitten.
I'd like to see that. Something the Hotakainens haven't had until this mission is anyone else's viewpoint on their way of handling... anything.
Post by: Elleth on January 20, 2017, 11:48:01 PM
I'd like to see that. Something the Hotakainens haven't had until this mission is anyone else's viewpoint on their way of handling... anything.
Lalli and Tuuri both got Emil's at/after the soup incident (at least Emil commented on Tuuri's presumed lack of care - of course Lalli didn't understand him - and afterwards he expected Tuuri to help him solve that mess), and I guess all three of them (more or less) got Taru's in the very beginning when Onni was trying to prevent them from leaving. Reynir also did his fair share of calling out Onni on his behaviour, but that was Onni alone, not in reference to anyone else.
Looking at today's page, it certainly does look like Tuuri does -- she's got no questions for them about what's going on with him, which I'd certainly expect if she had no idea; and she's got quote marks around "hit by lightning".
Yes! Especially if someone mentioned the giant fiery eagle rushing in to the rescue, Onni (who came to their rescue before, at that) being unresponsive and with burn injuries is somewhat obvious. I'm still convinced that Tuuri knows a fair deal about Finnish magic - she didn't fully explain the condition to Emil back when Lalli was without his Luonto, but then he also made his stance on magic very clear, so that'd have been a waste of breath...
Post by: thorny on January 21, 2017, 10:22:02 AM
He might have told her while they were waiting in the cat tank; or Lalli might have realized that Reynir did so -- he looks over at Reynir as Reynir goes into his trance, looks away, and doesn't grab him to come set up flame runes until after Reynir's done asking; and if so Lalli might have told Tuuri about it after the battle.
-- do we actually know that the Hotakainens weren't given other peoples' opinions as to how they handled things while they were living on the military base?
Post by: Fauna on January 21, 2017, 12:08:24 PM
I'm still convinced that Tuuri knows a fair deal about Finnish magic - she didn't fully explain the condition to Emil back when Lalli was without his Luonto, but then he also made his stance on magic very clear, so that'd have been a waste of breath...I don't think she fully understands the comatose as actually being dangerous. I doubt she'd be neutral, or even HAPPY, to hear about how her cousin or only brother might be in a condition from which they may never wake up. If it ever happened to Lalli in the past, it would be the sort of scenario where I could absolutely see Onni trying to protect her from the truth and going "oh it's just a mage thing, don't worry about it".
TBH, I don't think she knows much about magic at all. She can't use it, and Lalli especially would likely just find any curiosity about it from her part to come across as annoying.
Post by: thorny on January 23, 2017, 05:44:14 PM
I've gone most of this time thinking that when the troll broke through the floor, Reynir froze for the few moments it probably took for Lalli to get in there, and didn't do anything at all -- maybe because what I was expecting him to do was to throw up a protective bubble, though I don't know whether the one he used against the ghosts would work against trolls.
But take a look at page 654. What's that attracting Lalli's attention? Isn't that Reynir's spirit dog there on the left of the page, first barking at Lalli and then turned back to the tank to lead him in the right direction?
Maybe Reynir did what Reynir does best: yell for help from the person most likely to be able to provide it. And that is a genuinely useful talent; if, in this case, fractionally late -- I was going to say fractionally too late, but it was in time to save Reynir and Kitty, and at least buy Tuuri some time.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 23, 2017, 06:06:14 PM
I had a thought:
I've gone most of this time thinking that when the troll broke through the floor, Reynir froze for the few moments it probably took for Lalli to get in there, and didn't do anything at all -- maybe because what I was expecting him to do was to throw up a protective bubble, though I don't know whether the one he used against the ghosts would work against trolls.
But take a look at page 654. What's that attracting Lalli's attention? Isn't that Reynir's spirit dog there on the left of the page, first barking at Lalli and then turned back to the tank to lead him in the right direction?
Maybe Reynir did what Reynir does best: yell for help from the person most likely to be able to provide it. And that is a genuinely useful talent; if, in this case, fractionally late -- I was going to say fractionally too late, but it was in time to save Reynir and Kitty, and at least buy Tuuri some time.
I dunno, I read that panel on p654 a bit differently. I see it more as the tickle on the back of Lalli's neck, as the inchoate spiritual scream of a troll (which Lalli is sensitive to), but coming from an unexpected direction. That said, I like your thinking. The idea of Lalli picking out just that one troll in the mayhem is not that great.
Post by: JoB on January 24, 2017, 12:49:04 PM
There is at least one door that opens in the front, so I guess Tuuri will be using that.The door on the passenger side opens, too, so as to please particularly impatient ones (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=214). ;) (Lalli takes his cousin's side (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=220), of course.)
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=373
Post by: Jharad17 on January 24, 2017, 10:06:35 PM
I dunno, I read that panel on p654 a bit differently. I see it more as the tickle on the back of Lalli's neck, as the inchoate spiritual scream of a troll (which Lalli is sensitive to), but coming from an unexpected direction. That said, I like your thinking. The idea of Lalli picking out just that one troll in the mayhem is not that great.
I think the left side of panel one on #654 shows the outer wall of the cattank, then the left side of panel two shows that same spot being hit hard, and even punched out some. Lalli heard the huge Clang that would have made, a sound like no other during the fight, so he knew something bad was happening inside the cattank.
Post by: Róisín on January 25, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 26, 2017, 03:51:32 AM
Post by: heiteru on January 26, 2017, 09:59:15 PM
Post by: Silent on January 27, 2017, 11:20:14 AM
Post by: Silent on January 27, 2017, 02:37:59 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on January 27, 2017, 03:42:22 PM
Oh, and just a thought but, do you think Kitty would look like Reynir is she were human?
I think Kitty would look kinda like a cross between Reynir and Tuuri (I don't want to say "their child", since their genes could combine in various ways, not all of them Kitty-like). She's obviously got a lot of fur, but I think she's also a bit chubby under it. Would definitely have a round face rather than an angular one.
Several people have drawn human versions of Kitty if you want to see other ideas! Not sure how easy it is to comb through the art thread or tumblr for them, though.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 27, 2017, 06:35:17 PM
Oh, and just a thought but, do you think Kitty would look like Reynir is she were human?
Ohh, somebody (Gwenno? Johannabelle? John Candlebury? Olga Veresk? dammit, must delve...) drew a version of her as a human and it was the best! It was only around October-November last year, so stay tuned while I do a delve. (But don't hold your breath, I'll be longer than that, okay?)
Post by: Silent on January 27, 2017, 07:07:25 PM
Ohh, somebody (Gwenno? Johannabelle? John Candlebury? Olga Veresk? dammit, must delve...) drew a version of her as a human and it was the best! It was only around October-November last year, so stay tuned while I do a delve. (But don't hold your breath, I'll be longer than that, okay?)
That's perfectly fine, I might do my own version as well.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/745bf5c781094c558f6842a54023d73b/tumblr_inline_o96cxyxgwT1r64chh_540.png)
Post by: Anna on January 27, 2017, 08:12:38 PM
Ohh, somebody (Gwenno? Johannabelle? John Candlebury? Olga Veresk? dammit, must delve...) drew a version of her as a human and it was the best! It was only around October-November last year, so stay tuned while I do a delve. (But don't hold your breath, I'll be longer than that, okay?)I remember shaeira did something like that about a year ago, don't know if she(?) ever posted it on here but I managed to find it on her tumblr: http://shaeiira.tumblr.com/post/139675687634/kittens-xd-maybe-something-happyish-because (http://shaeiira.tumblr.com/post/139675687634/kittens-xd-maybe-something-happyish-because)
Post by: wavewright62 on January 29, 2017, 05:46:30 AM
I remember shaeira did something like that about a year ago, don't know if she(?) ever posted it on here but I managed to find it on her tumblr: http://shaeiira.tumblr.com/post/139675687634/kittens-xd-maybe-something-happyish-because (http://shaeiira.tumblr.com/post/139675687634/kittens-xd-maybe-something-happyish-because)
It wasn't this one, but I do appreciate you digging that up, because it's also very lovely! I've just spent the last hour trying to find the one I meant. It was a picture of Kitty as a cute petite redhead, in uniform I believe, but featuring orange highlights. Nearly midnight, must go to bed, but the hunt will continue.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on January 29, 2017, 07:21:07 AM
I remember shaeira did something like that about a year ago, don't know if she(?) ever posted it on here but I managed to find it on her tumblr: http://shaeiira.tumblr.com/post/139675687634/kittens-xd-maybe-something-happyish-because (http://shaeiira.tumblr.com/post/139675687634/kittens-xd-maybe-something-happyish-because)
It wasn't this one, but I do appreciate you digging that up, because it's also very lovely! I've just spent the last hour trying to find the one I meant. It was a picture of Kitty as a cute petite redhead, in uniform I believe, but featuring orange highlights. Nearly midnight, must go to bed, but the hunt will continue.I found something (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=35.msg93758#msg93758)--check the spoilered images to see if one of those fits.
Post by: Silent on January 29, 2017, 03:49:23 PM
I found something (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=35.msg93758#msg93758)--check the spoilered images to see if one of those fits.
Thanks! these were awesome.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 29, 2017, 05:15:20 PM
Post by: Silent on January 29, 2017, 05:19:38 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 30, 2017, 03:08:22 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 30, 2017, 03:45:27 AM
There's also this one by Star https://starfally.tumblr.com/post/138903704227/i-got-the-idea-for-this-with-shaeiira-tweeting-a :)
That's the one! That's the one I was trying to find. Thank you so much Sc0ut!
Post by: Grade E cat on January 31, 2017, 07:33:40 AM
Post by: urbicande on January 31, 2017, 08:50:21 AM
Predictions for next page: they have to explain to the guy who thinks Onni got hit by lightning how they ran out of paper and the stowaway got carpal tunnel syndrome within the last two hours.
Lalli is trying to convince Reynir to do his homework for him.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on February 14, 2017, 03:54:54 PM
"We will never stop."
If what it's saying is true. Then the whole world is in danger.
Post by: Vafhudr on February 14, 2017, 04:02:03 PM
"We will never tire."
"We will never stop."
If what it's saying is true. Then the whole world is in danger.
Said the monster that dragged itself from it's lair. Heck, it seems to be losing it's internal consistency - with the voices of the souls in it speaking out and all that.
I wouldn't be surprised it just collapses in the next few pages.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on February 14, 2017, 04:19:26 PM
Said the monster that dragged itself from it's lair. Heck, it seems to be losing it's internal consistency - with the voices of the souls in it speaking out and all that.It's not the fact that it's dying. It's the fact they are like the borg. You will be assimilated and you will like it. And people like Sigrun in all their toughness cannot kill these things. All it has to do is touch her and she's assimilated.
I wouldn't be surprised it just collapses in the next few pages.
Plus they are growing stronger, larger and more powerful with every one they assimilate. There is some dark plan at work here. There aren't building a ghost army for no reason.
Post by: Vafhudr on February 14, 2017, 05:58:56 PM
It feels like they would need something like a necromancer troll to coordinate all these lost souls to actually do something.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on February 14, 2017, 06:31:10 PM
Do you think that this is something the trolls are capable of?http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=412
It feels like they would need something like a necromancer troll to coordinate all these lost souls to actually do something.
>kade: a turned mage
>onni mentions the 'it' is looking for them again a few chapters back.
It's all coming together. Darkness shrouds denmark. The dark arts are at play there is no way it's not trolls.
Post by: Vafhudr on February 15, 2017, 12:03:37 AM
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=412
>kade: a turned mage
>onni mentions the 'it' is looking for them again a few chapters back.
It's all coming together. Darkness shrouds denmark. The dark arts are at play there is no way it's not trolls.
I agree with you.
I also suspect that, if it's not the final boss, a major force and antagonist will be a turned/corrupted mage.
It's just a concept that has great potential.
Post by: VibratingText on February 22, 2017, 10:06:00 PM
Reynir:
(http://i.imgur.com/HsrqjbS.gif)
Post by: Purple Wyrm on February 22, 2017, 11:55:20 PM
Post by: thorny on February 23, 2017, 12:06:01 AM
Post by: Róisín on February 23, 2017, 12:12:47 AM
Post by: Shine on February 23, 2017, 12:49:24 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on February 23, 2017, 02:26:37 AM
Weellll, if one classifies "fine" as meaning "alive" he isn't wrong yet
Alive and not likely to die any time soon.
As opposed to Tuuri :(
Post by: Grade E cat on February 23, 2017, 02:50:10 AM
Post by: Kelpie on February 23, 2017, 12:51:42 PM
I just thought of something. Reynir won't have access to the radio as long as Tuuri is in quarantine. He has absolutely no official business going into "Tuuri's" side with a mask on, unlike earlier in the chapter where Tuuri has to go on "Reynir's" side to repair the floor. The dreamspace is going to be his only option to talk with Onni over at least the next two weeks, so Reynir probably going to be very abusive towards that loophole.Well considering Onni is unconscious right now the dreamspace is probably anyone's only means of contacting him right now. Does anyone remember how long it took for Lalli's luonto to return? I know this isn't the same thing, but it's the best comparison I can think of right now.
Post by: heiteru on February 23, 2017, 01:34:07 PM
Does anyone remember how long it took for Lalli's luonto to return?if I remember correctly, then Lally was sleeping a little more than a day ~36 hours or so
Post by: Róisín on February 23, 2017, 05:23:46 PM
Post by: Kelpie on February 23, 2017, 05:36:56 PM
if I remember correctly, then Lally was sleeping a little more than a day ~36 hours or so
He fell asleep on the late afternoon/evening of the day they reached the Amalienborg palace, slept that night (being asleep when Leaftroll attacked)and the following day (which was the day Mikkel went to Kastellet). He was still asleep when the ghosts hit them, some 24 hours after they arrived. He slept through that, though he was conscious, and in human form, in the dreamworld when the ghosts tried to get into his haven, and had enough connection to his body to grab Emil. Then he slept through their escape from Copenhagen, and woke around mid-morning of the next day. So yeah, likely a bit over thirtysix hours.Ah okay! Thanks for having a better memory than me (and/or looking it up and not being lazy like me).
Post by: Róisín on February 23, 2017, 07:09:06 PM
Post by: urbicande on February 24, 2017, 11:21:18 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on February 24, 2017, 12:54:02 PM
Well considering Onni is unconscious right now the dreamspace is probably anyone's only means of contacting him right now. Does anyone remember how long it took for Lalli's luonto to return? I know this isn't the same thing, but it's the best comparison I can think of right now.
I know that, but unless Onni stays comatose for a full two weeks (I can see him taking longer than Lalli to recover, but not that much longer), there is going to be some overlap between him being awake and Tuuri's quarantine.
Post by: thorny on March 02, 2017, 10:04:29 AM
Although it is dreamworld scenery.
Post by: DaemonDan on March 02, 2017, 10:26:52 AM
Post by: urbicande on March 02, 2017, 12:20:57 PM
Post by: Róisín on March 02, 2017, 05:34:10 PM
Post by: DaemonDan on March 12, 2017, 10:29:43 PM
Post by: Anna on March 12, 2017, 11:12:20 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on March 13, 2017, 03:40:59 AM
Post by: Gaemmel on March 13, 2017, 07:26:29 AM
But I am SO scared about seeing any sudden progress of Tuuri's disease.
Post by: urbicande on March 13, 2017, 11:15:17 AM
So, the cattank seems to be running again, and that cover at least looks like they are about to reach the military base, which could, for example, be on an island connected to the mainland with a bridge. Would be easy enough to defend, at least.
But I am SO scared about seeing any sudden progress of Tuuri's disease.
It's not a given yet that Tuuri has it. (if she does, I expect Sigrun to just shoot her)
Post by: Tr on March 13, 2017, 11:23:59 AM
My Febuary vacation reading included both a binge of "A redtail's dream" and a Tuuri death fic titled after the bird's path. Beacause of this, I'm actually kind of unsettled by the birds on that cover, no matter how beautiful they are otherwise.Me too... someone on the Disqus comments also talked about the symbolism of crossing a river (i.e, the boundary between the mortal world and the afterlife.) I'm pretty worried about Tuuri all around...
It's not a given yet that Tuuri has it. (if she does, I expect Sigrun to just shoot her)True. (That would be heartbreaking, though.)
Post by: urbicande on March 13, 2017, 02:58:09 PM
It's either that or they give her the cure and she can only interact with Lalli and Reynir as a ghost. Which would be even worse.
Post by: JoB on March 14, 2017, 03:56:52 PM
or they give her the cure and she can only interact with Lalli and Reynir as a ghost. Which would be even worse.Well, that depends on whether she'ld start out right away as a murderghost, or deteriorating that much requires the full 90 years and Tuuri would begin as just a noncorporeal verson of her cheery (if saddened by recent events) self.
The pickup has been said to arrive "somewhere north of 20 days". If Tuuri is infected, she should show first unmistakable signs within the standard quarantine period of two weeks. According to Mikkels assessment of the oldest photos of Hilde Rasmussen, even a cursory inspection by the quarantine ship's crew should reveal her infection at the pickup time - and I seriously doubt that they would want to take an infected person aboard in the first place.
Post by: thorny on March 20, 2017, 11:10:41 AM
ETA: the cattank may be running on the cover, but it doesn't look like it's running yet as of the current page.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 20, 2017, 09:55:35 PM
Well, that depends on whether she'ld start out right away as a murderghost, or deteriorating that much requires the full 90 years and Tuuri would begin as just a noncorporeal verson of her cheery (if saddened by recent events) self.
Worldbuilding speculation: I wonder if any mages have attempted to 'keep' spirits safe in their own havens. In this scenario, Onni would build a virtual cabin or such for Tuuri to 'live' in, within his virtual Finland.
Post by: urbicande on March 20, 2017, 10:42:49 PM
Worldbuilding speculation: I wonder if any mages have attempted to 'keep' spirits safe in their own havens. In this scenario, Onni would build a virtual cabin or such for Tuuri to 'live' in, within his virtual Finland.
Oooh! I like that idea!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 20, 2017, 10:49:37 PM
Worldbuilding speculation: I wonder if any mages have attempted to 'keep' spirits safe in their own havens. In this scenario, Onni would build a virtual cabin or such for Tuuri to 'live' in, within his virtual Finland.
That could be possible, but I suspect it wouldn't work out very well. Finnish mages are supposed to guide spirits on their way, keeping one around for selfish reasons could be a violation of everything Onni's meant to do, and that could have bad consequences for them both.
We've seen what happens when a spirit is trapped in the real world, having one trapped in the spirit world could be just as bad.
Of course if Tuuri wants to hang around she could end up like Pastor A. Still there but slowly losing her memories and sense of self.
Post by: Anna on March 23, 2017, 08:15:39 PM
Post by: |Yucca| on March 23, 2017, 10:00:39 PM
Huh. Anyone else having trouble with disqus refusing to load on page 692? It seems fine on previous pages, but even on different browsers and different devices all I get is the ad and the little animated speech bubble.
I'm having the same problem too as do others also. Seems like it's happening to everyone.
Post by: thorny on March 24, 2017, 09:54:16 AM
I don't have a disqus account so don't know whether that part's working.
Post by: Sc0ut on March 24, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Huh. Anyone else having trouble with disqus refusing to load on page 692? It seems fine on previous pages, but even on different browsers and different devices all I get is the ad and the little animated speech bubble.
I see them in Firefox, but then in Chrome I haven't been able to load Disqus on any site in at least a month. I assume a full cache wipeout is in order but I don't know all my passwords so I've been putting it off. You can try that and see if it helps you, if you don't dread losing all the cookies as much as I do :)
Post by: Ragnarok on March 27, 2017, 09:00:02 AM
I think Minna may have violated a fundamental law of the universe.
Post by: Occa on March 27, 2017, 09:45:45 AM
Post by: JacobThomsen on March 27, 2017, 10:06:20 AM
Post by: Kelpie on March 27, 2017, 02:08:52 PM
Mikkels way of dealing with an uncooperative patient may be unconventional, and would get him fired if he was working as a real doctor (If it not already has), but it is effective.Honesty I'd be surprised if Mikkel ever was a real doctor.
Post by: Vafhudr on March 27, 2017, 03:23:42 PM
Mikkel: I have successfully delivered 16 calves back on the farm.
Interviewer: Well that beats most of our candidates. You're in.
Post by: Miriam on March 27, 2017, 05:35:55 PM
Mikkels way of dealing with an uncooperative patient may be unconventional, and would get him fired if he was working as a real doctor (If it not already has), but it is effective.
It does make the patient rather angry, though.
Mikkel has stated in chapter 9 that he isn't actually a doctor, so I doubt he has been working as one.
Post by: Lazy8 on March 27, 2017, 07:20:00 PM
Post by: urbicande on March 27, 2017, 07:51:18 PM
As someone pointed out in the comments... Lalli could've choked. Especially if he'd surprise inhaled, which would've been a very natural reaction.
I'm pretty sure Lalli always inhales those cookies.
Post by: Anna on March 27, 2017, 08:16:51 PM
As someone pointed out in the comments... Lalli could've choked. Especially if he'd surprise inhaled, which would've been a very natural reaction.Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed.
Post by: Occa on March 27, 2017, 10:49:16 PM
Post by: thorny on March 28, 2017, 11:49:53 AM
if Reynir had stayed home, possibly nobody would have reached Onni to ask for help, and everyone on the crew would have been overwhelmed by the trolls and killed -- if they hadn't been previously finished off by the ghosts on their first encounter with them. Reynir, in all his thinking, seems to have missed thinking of that.
Post by: Anna on March 28, 2017, 12:53:16 PM
Re the new page:Well, once you start down a negative train of thought, you tend to stick with it unless something happens to derail it.
if Reynir had stayed home, possibly nobody would have reached Onni to ask for help, and everyone on the crew would have been overwhelmed by the trolls and killed -- if they hadn't been previously finished off by the ghosts on their first encounter with them. Reynir, in all his thinking, seems to have missed thinking of that.
Post by: urbicande on March 28, 2017, 03:03:20 PM
Re the new page:
if Reynir had stayed home, possibly nobody would have reached Onni to ask for help, and everyone on the crew would have been overwhelmed by the trolls and killed -- if they hadn't been previously finished off by the ghosts on their first encounter with them. Reynir, in all his thinking, seems to have missed thinking of that.
OTOH, if Reynir wasn't there they'd likely never have entered Amalienborg (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=414), Sigrun probably wouldn't be injured (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=422). And if they'd never entered Amelienborg, they wouldn't have known to go to Kastellet (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=460) and Murderghost wouldn't be chasing them (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=462). And they likely wouldn't have been in Odense (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=592).
Post by: Jharad17 on March 28, 2017, 06:27:16 PM
OTOH, if Reynir wasn't there they'd likely never have entered Amalienborg (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=414), Sigrun probably wouldn't be injured (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=422). And if they'd never entered Amelienborg, they wouldn't have known to go to Kastellet (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=460) and Murderghost wouldn't be chasing them (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=462). And they likely wouldn't have been in Odense (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=592).
I don't think Reynir had anything to do with them going to Amalienborg. What makes you think he did? As for Odense, and Kastellet before that, that was all Mikkel's idea.
Post by: Occa on March 28, 2017, 08:59:33 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 28, 2017, 09:46:51 PM
That said, there's every possibility they would have checked out the clinic anyway even without Reynir being there.
Post by: Jharad17 on March 29, 2017, 02:18:23 AM
Well, there is the fact that Reynir spotting something moving is what led them to check out the clinic remains in Amalienborg, which led to them discovering the serum bottles, which is what led to Mikkel to go to the fort, which is what set the Murderghosts after them.
That said, there's every possibility they would have checked out the clinic anyway even without Reynir being there.
Hmm, good point. I hadn't thought of it like that. Of course, they did go into the Amalienborg clinic later, anyway, chasing down Leaftroll after it attacked them. And Leaftroll was kind of Lalli's fault (or, indirectly, Onni's. Or, even more indirectly, Grandma Ensi's.)
Post by: Occa on March 29, 2017, 03:00:01 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 29, 2017, 09:47:11 AM
Hmm, good point. I hadn't thought of it like that. Of course, they did go into the Amalienborg clinic later, anyway, chasing down Leaftroll after it attacked them. And Leaftroll was kind of Lalli's fault (or, indirectly, Onni's. Or, even more indirectly, Grandma Ensi's.)
We could play this game forever, but without Reynir being there Leaftroll probably would have attacked closer to the Cat Tank (they were on their way back from the clinic when it struck) and Sigrun probably wouldn't have got her arm mangled protecting him. Then she could have quickly and efficiently killed the troll before it got anywhere near the clinic, rather than leave the job to Emil and Mikkel and their three stooges impression.
Man, for someone who doesn't think any of this is Reynir's fault I'm building a really good case against him :))
Post by: Róisín on March 29, 2017, 11:41:53 AM
Post by: urbicande on March 29, 2017, 03:50:08 PM
And of course one has to wonder how much of the whole situation is due to the nudging and prompting of the Minnaverse gods, since I'm sure they are no more impressed with the Rash than are the humans.
I'm not convinced of that one. We don't know where the Rash came from. (Although I insist still that it has to be magical so it may well have a connection with the gods)
Post by: wavewright62 on March 29, 2017, 06:33:48 PM
As someone pointed out in the comments... Lalli could've choked. Especially if he'd surprise inhaled, which would've been a very natural reaction.
He was in the middle of a sigh (outward), but good point.
Reynir, buddy, your great-grandpa tried that - and look how that turned out. Sooner or later, your itchy feet would *not* have been happy to remain suspended in the air.
Post by: VibratingText on March 29, 2017, 09:41:11 PM
Which means either it hasn't been run in a while or it'll explode at the plot's convenience, which I imagine to be 'soon'.
Post by: Jharad17 on March 29, 2017, 09:50:25 PM
Man, for someone who doesn't think any of this is Reynir's fault I'm building a really good case against him :))
Yep! I guess we should decide it's all Reynir's fault and call it a day. ;)
Post by: Grade E cat on March 30, 2017, 02:59:10 PM
Post by: Hrollo on March 30, 2017, 03:53:39 PM
Post by: Occa on March 30, 2017, 07:22:06 PM
Post by: Occa on March 30, 2017, 07:23:59 PM
Post by: Anna on March 30, 2017, 09:18:43 PM
yeah, but cold weather can also weaken your immune system, right? and you can also get a cold from different places than people.Studies indicate that cold weather has no discernible affect on the immune system. The only health issue directly caused by cold that I am aware of is hypothermia.
Post by: Occa on March 30, 2017, 09:48:05 PM
Post by: Athena on March 31, 2017, 12:45:09 AM
Studies indicate that cold weather has no discernible affect on the immune system. The only health issue directly caused by cold that I am aware of is hypothermia.
That's interesting. I'd think that it would have some affect on the immune system, given that it's quite common to get a runny nose when out in the cold. That might be an effect directly on the sinuses rather than on the immune system as a whole?
It does seem to be "common knowledge" (whether true or not) that being in the cold has some effect on getting a cold.
Post by: Hrollo on March 31, 2017, 05:48:50 AM
yeah, but cold weather can also weaken your immune system, right? and you can also get a cold from different places than people.
Well, most virus can't survive outside a host for long; so even if colds can be transmited from animal to persons, well, you still need some host to come near Tuuri.
Post by: Occa on March 31, 2017, 10:00:23 AM
Well, most virus can't survive outside a host for long; so even if colds can be transmited from animal to persons, well, you still need some host to come near Tuuri.
Oh ok, that makes sense.
Post by: thorny on March 31, 2017, 12:57:54 PM
you can also get a cold from different places than people.
Cold viruses apparently can only live a bit longer than a week outside the body.
https://www.reference.com/science/long-can-cold-virus-live-outside-body-45d00780efa05d03 (https://www.reference.com/science/long-can-cold-virus-live-outside-body-45d00780efa05d03)
So unless they can survive in troll bodies, it seems really unlikely there'd be living cold virus in the area.
Post by: Occa on March 31, 2017, 08:01:01 PM
Post by: Anna on March 31, 2017, 08:46:34 PM
but couldn't it be carried on animals? Like the cats or the dog?The only dog I can recall was the dog-beast, and Emil dealt with it months ago, comic-time (as far as I can tell). Mama cat died the same day, so any viruses she might have passed on would likely have run their course by this time. Same with Kitty. Plus, anti-Rash hygiene protocols may have the side effect of preventing a number of more mundane illnesses.
Post by: Occa on March 31, 2017, 09:03:21 PM
Post by: thorny on March 31, 2017, 10:33:15 PM
There are some diseases readily transmissable between species -- some of them only between a few, others between quite a few -- but there are also many that are species-specific.
Post by: Occa on March 31, 2017, 10:40:10 PM
Post by: Róisín on April 01, 2017, 12:40:07 AM
I've even heard it suggested that there is a virus that humans share with a tree, the River Redgum (Eucalyptus camaldulensis), and that leprosy may originally have jumped species from amphibians. Don't know enough about the last two to really have an opinion, but interesting ideas.
Post by: Abprallen on April 01, 2017, 04:50:38 PM
That's interesting. I'd think that it would have some affect on the immune system, given that it's quite common to get a runny nose when out in the cold. That might be an effect directly on the sinuses rather than on the immune system as a whole?The runny nose is actually caused by moisture in the air - iiiiiffff I'm remembering correctly, your nose will humidify any air that you breathe in to help keep your lungs moist. When it's colder, the temperature difference between your body and the outside means the water condenses in your nose, giving you a runny nose.
It does seem to be "common knowledge" (whether true or not) that being in the cold has some effect on getting a cold.
Post by: Athena on April 01, 2017, 05:17:13 PM
The runny nose is actually caused by moisture in the air - iiiiiffff I'm remembering correctly, your nose will humidify any air that you breathe in to help keep your lungs moist. When it's colder, the temperature difference between your body and the outside means the water condenses in your nose, giving you a runny nose.
Wow, thats actually really cool! I didn't know that - thanks for the science fact!
Post by: thorny on April 03, 2017, 08:56:56 AM
Tuuri doesn't look in the least happy. That grin looks absolutely manic.
And I sure hope that that thing they're driving past in the last panel is safely dead.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 03, 2017, 11:04:07 PM
Post by: Jharad17 on April 03, 2017, 11:18:39 PM
Oh, I am so hoping Mikkel isn't trying to palm off responsibility for dealing with an infected Tuuri onto the quarantine facility. Sigrun I would expect to deal with it, but Mikkel might just try to wash his hands of the issue.
I don't think he will, if only because she's likely to become symptomatic (if she does) before the ship gets there -- they were going to have to wait a couple weeks while dining on tinned food before its arrival, iirc. Also, he does promise to keep the home team up to date on this page, so maybe he'll buckle down and do his job properly.
Post by: Occa on April 04, 2017, 01:46:39 AM
Post by: urbicande on April 04, 2017, 05:52:37 PM
Glad to see the ghosts are still hanging around.
You may be the only one.
Post by: Occa on April 04, 2017, 07:19:45 PM
You may be the only one.
They should like, put a "no loitering" sign on the cat tank to keep the ghosts away.
Post by: Minutia_R on April 05, 2017, 12:00:35 AM
They should like, put a "no loitering" sign on the cat tank to keep the ghosts away.
Didn't they?
Post by: Occa on April 05, 2017, 12:21:20 AM
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2017, 12:37:32 AM
Post by: Occa on April 05, 2017, 12:41:13 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on April 05, 2017, 07:24:20 AM
Results of that would depend on whether the ghosts were the remains of bureaucrats or of proponents of civil disobedience. The latter it might actually attract.
Why can you not upvote forum comments?
Post by: Abprallen on April 05, 2017, 09:35:09 PM
I wonder if Reynir's taken social cue's from Lalli in that last panel?
Post by: heiteru on April 05, 2017, 11:13:38 PM
Post by: GeiYin on April 06, 2017, 12:24:16 AM
But it's seemed to me that Emil will hate Rey more than anyone else now
Finally some action
Post by: JacobThomsen on April 06, 2017, 01:19:22 AM
fightfightfightfight
Post by: Grade E cat on April 07, 2017, 02:09:41 PM
Scenario 1: They wait it out to not break the quarantine
Sigrun:*ear stuck against door* I wish we had a hint on who's winning.
*huge explosion that takes out the back half of the tank*
Sigrun:That doesn't exactly narrow it down.
Scenario 2: Mikkel goes to the back via outside to stop the fight
Mikkel: I could use some reinforcements over here.
Sigrun: What's happening, can't break a fight involving my right-hand warrior and one and a half mages?
Mikkel: I was able to break the fight with ease. But Reynir's braid now needs to be completely redone.
Post by: Occa on April 07, 2017, 06:14:58 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on April 07, 2017, 09:25:50 PM
I'm starting to wonder how the people in the office are going to react to this:
Scenario 1: They wait it out to not break the quarantine
Sigrun:*ear stuck against door* I wish we had a hint on who's winning.
*huge explosion that takes out the back half of the tank*
Sigrun:That doesn't exactly narrow it down.
Scenario 2: Mikkel goes to the back via outside to stop the fight
Mikkel: I could use some reinforcements over here.
Sigrun: What's happening, can't break a fight involving my right-hand warrior and one and a half mages?
Mikkel: I was able to break the fight with ease. But Reynir's braid now needs to be completely redone.
Want-to-see fanart: Sigrun and Mikkel struggling to re-braid Reynir's hair.
Post by: Róisín on April 08, 2017, 12:12:29 AM
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on April 08, 2017, 12:34:44 AM
Want-to-see fanart: Sigrun and Mikkel struggling to re-braid Reynir's hair.
Lalli and Emil struggling to rebraid Reynir's hair, all of them sporting grazes and bruises, with Mikkel supervising.You guys know that there's a thread (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=64.0) for that, right?
Post by: Róisín on April 08, 2017, 05:16:56 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on April 08, 2017, 06:58:23 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on April 09, 2017, 02:43:33 PM
I'm starting to wonder how the people in the office are going to react to this:
Scenario 1: They wait it out to not break the quarantine
Sigrun:*ear stuck against door* I wish we had a hint on who's winning.
*huge explosion that takes out the back half of the tank*ii
Sigrun:That doesn't exactly narrow it down.
Scenario 2: Mikkel goes to the back via outside to stop the fight
Mikkel: I could use some reinforcements over here.
Sigrun: What's happening, can't break a fight involving my right-hand warrior and one and a half mages?
Mikkel: I was able to break the fight with ease. But Reynir's braid now needs to be completely redone.
*guffaws*
I would say we've all forgotten about that thread, thanks for pointing it out, LooNEY_DAC.
Post by: Sc0ut on April 09, 2017, 08:42:15 PM
Post by: Abprallen on April 09, 2017, 08:56:05 PM
Not again. Never again.
On the new page, though; good on Emil for ~trying~ to diffuse the tension. Seemed to work okay, given Reynir's showing passive behaviour by looking away. Lalli still looks ready to catch some hands, though.
His confused 'oh god I just did that' expression is fantastic too.
I'm also wondering about the logic of leaving the three youngest members of the crew isolated from the voice(s) of reason when none of them can verbally communicate with each other, and when 2 of them are not in a very good place mentally.
Post by: Occa on April 09, 2017, 09:05:31 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 09, 2017, 09:27:06 PM
Looney_DAC, I took one look, saw my immortal, and ran.
Not again. Never again.
I believe that was my fault. Sorry!
(not sorry!)
Post by: Anna on April 09, 2017, 09:34:19 PM
I believe that was my fault. Sorry!Maybe go back and put the horror of horrors in a spoiler. Apparently not everyone can safely skim past it.
(not sorry!)
Post by: Abprallen on April 09, 2017, 09:46:33 PM
I believe that was my fault. Sorry!It's okay, I immediately sent it to a friend. I'm not one to suffer alone when My Immortal is involved :))
(not sorry!)
Post by: Sc0ut on April 09, 2017, 10:18:59 PM
I'm also wondering about the logic of leaving the three youngest members of the crew isolated from the voice(s) of reason when none of them can verbally communicate with each other, and when 2 of them are not in a very good place mentally.
What voices of reason? The way I see it, there barely is one (Mikkel) and even that's a stretch.
Also I don't think they're isolated in any way - they're free to go as they please (except near Tuuri?). The rest of the team can't be babysitting them 24/7, there are other things to do as well.
Post by: Róisín on April 09, 2017, 10:54:26 PM
Post by: Basse on April 10, 2017, 05:00:55 PM
Under spoiler for space saving.
Spoiler: show
Post by: JacobThomsen on April 10, 2017, 05:33:50 PM
Emils way of "Calming" Reynir reminds me of a scene from the movie Airplane.I laughed more of this than I should have
Under spoiler for space saving.Spoiler: show
Post by: Basse on April 10, 2017, 05:43:17 PM
I laughed more of this than I should haveYou should see the movie, it's full of scenes like this and word puns.
Spoiler: show
Post by: Occa on April 10, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
Emils way of "Calming" Reynir reminds me of a scene from the movie Airplane.
Under spoiler for space saving.Spoiler: show
Now I can't help but imagine that scene recreated with the SSSS cast trying to calm down Reynir.
Post by: Abprallen on April 10, 2017, 09:00:55 PM
You can't have really stupid without stupid after all
Post by: Anna on April 10, 2017, 09:14:46 PM
I wonder who Lalli calls the 'stupid one'I thought maybe it was more like a demotion for Reynír—"you're even stupider than I thought."
You can't have really stupid without stupid after allI bet it's Emil
Post by: Shine on April 11, 2017, 12:59:55 AM
I thought maybe it was more like a demotion for Reynír—"you're even stupider than I thought."That's very possible, it has happened to me before and Lalli seems to be less into (stupid and annoying) people than I am.
Post by: GeiYin on April 11, 2017, 02:26:27 AM
Post by: Occa on April 11, 2017, 02:55:10 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on April 11, 2017, 04:03:01 AM
I start to worry about Onni in real.... how much days passed already?
He and Pastor A are away having a nice kaffeeklatsch somewhere, and he's playing the kantele for her and everything is lovely.
Or not.
Post by: urbicande on April 11, 2017, 09:46:13 AM
He and Pastor A are away having a nice kaffeeklatsch somewhere, and he's playing the kantele for her and everything is lovely.
Or not.
If they were still in Sweden I'd say fika :)
Post by: thorny on April 11, 2017, 10:00:55 AM
A failure to recognize that communication a) was necessary and b) hasn't happened has caused this team huge amounts of problems on this trip already -- including the problem with the troll that got under the truck.
Post by: Lazy8 on April 11, 2017, 06:58:36 PM
I'm glad that Lalli has figured out Reynir really needs to tell him something, and that he's going to do something to accomplish this. I was afraid at first that Lalli was just pushing Reynir out of the room.
A failure to recognize that communication a) was necessary and b) hasn't happened has caused this team huge amounts of problems on this trip already -- including the problem with the troll that got under the truck.
A nice summary, and I hope this is the turnaround point where everybody starts to recognize that they need to work on fixing that problem.
Post by: Minutia_R on April 12, 2017, 12:18:53 AM
I wonder who Lalli calls the 'stupid one'
You can't have really stupid without stupid after allI bet it's Emil
Ha, I had the same thought.
Tuuri: Lalli, I really don't have time to help you and Emil make kissy-face right now.
Lalli: No, not the stupid one, the really stupid one.
I am actually really proud of Lalli right now. The bite and "really stupid" notwithstanding (and, I think, totally justified by the circumstances--not that I don't understand the frustrations that led Reynir to just grab Lalli and start yelling, but it was neither okay nor helpful) it's pretty clear from the exchange of looks in the second row that he's trying to help out of genuine concern for Reynir. Where it would have been a perfectly reasonable response to have retreated to his bunk and continued sulking.
Post by: Abprallen on April 12, 2017, 06:24:00 PM
Also, god I hope Onni is okay. My poor little heart can't take this!!
Post by: JacobThomsen on April 12, 2017, 07:00:57 PM
Also, god I hope Onni is okay. My poor little heart can't take this!!Look at the bright side he might get a new haircut for free
Post by: GeiYin on April 12, 2017, 09:30:17 PM
And you know... coma isn't that bad in real.... when there are NO VÄSTERSTRÖM DEVILS AROUND
(Or god what they can do now, if to remember what they did with him before, when Onni was just not moving)
And yes TUURI ASKED WHICH ONE. THIS MADE MY WHOLE DAY. WEEK. YEAR.
Post by: Minutia_R on April 12, 2017, 11:35:15 PM
I wonder if Reynir has any idea he gets ripped on like this?
Also, god I hope Onni is okay. My poor little heart can't take this!!
Given the way he responded when Emil insulted his hair, I'm pretty sure he doesn't.
Post by: thorny on April 13, 2017, 10:17:24 AM
It's a good thing that he's getting medical care in the meantime, though, as I don't expect recovery would be helped by dehydration and starvation -- it seems likely that someone in that condition who didn't have help available would be in significant danger.
Post by: Vafhudr on April 13, 2017, 11:55:44 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_paganism#Soul (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_paganism#Soul)
It could be that his condition is directly linked to the exertion of his luonto, the result being comparable to his luonto "leaving him", or in this case, in retreat to lick its wounds and gather strength.
He is physically healthy because his henki was not touched, but he's basically soul-less right now and as long as his luonto is recovering in the dreamworld.
Post by: Grade E cat on April 13, 2017, 02:24:56 PM
Post by: JoB on April 13, 2017, 02:51:03 PM
And you know... coma isn't that bad in real.... when there are NO VÄSTERSTRÖM DEVILS AROUNDI wonder: Could the daily visits of that "doctor" Torbjörn's referring to be affordable because he happens to be the doctor's father?
Post by: Occa on April 14, 2017, 10:53:50 AM
A theory concerning Onni's condition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_paganism#Soul (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_paganism#Soul)
It could be that his condition is directly linked to the exertion of his luonto, the result being comparable to his luonto "leaving him", or in this case, in retreat to lick its wounds and gather strength.
He is physically healthy because his henki was not touched, but he's basically soul-less right now and as long as his luonto is recovering in the dreamworld.
I think it's probably because of his luonto, since Lalli was out for a while after using his luonto.
Post by: thorny on April 14, 2017, 12:00:10 PM
I hope just annoyed by being carried around by the kids; not because of sensing something wrong going on.
Post by: Basse on April 14, 2017, 02:00:07 PM
That is one annoyed looking cat.Bosse is always looking grumpy.
I hope just annoyed by being carried around by the kids; not because of sensing something wrong going on.
Post by: Gaemmel on April 14, 2017, 02:50:54 PM
Post by: heiteru on April 14, 2017, 09:12:08 PM
Post by: Kelpie on April 24, 2017, 12:39:42 AM
Post by: Jharad17 on April 24, 2017, 01:27:48 AM
Wait, are we actually going to get some information on the Tragic Hotakainen Backstory™?
I know, crazy, right!? Minna's not likely to answer all our questions, that's not her style, but if we at least learn a smidge about why the trio of cousins had to leave Saimaa, I'll be pretty stoked.
Post by: Minutia_R on April 24, 2017, 04:36:29 AM
I'm also interested in the side of present-day Tuuri we're seeing here. Tuuri can come across as the queen of denial because she doesn't like considering the possibility that bad things will happen or acknowledging negative emotions, but she's showing an impressive amount of self-knowledge here. She doesn't regret coming on the expedition not because she's convinced everything will be fine or because she considers the experience or scientific/cultural knowledge acquired worth her likely death, but because she can't envision a hypothetical scenario where she stayed quietly at home.
Post by: thorny on April 24, 2017, 08:20:04 AM
Are those all lit windows? despite the sun being up? though that hillside is in strong shadow, and it's a hazy low sun.
Post by: Grade E cat on April 24, 2017, 11:24:41 AM
Also, I've been imagining Onni getting a coma dream much like Lalli did, and that it would double as a flash-back. The one that's starting could very well transition into that once it ends.
Post by: JoB on April 24, 2017, 03:16:32 PM
if we at least learn a smidge about why the trio of cousins had to leave Saimaa, I'll be pretty stoked.On the next page: A more distant shot of the three Hotakainens with backpacks walking out through a bite mark in a collapsed, smoldering palisade wall, with Onni saying "... and we will not start this discussion again before we have reached Keuruu and are safe again, understand?" >:D
Post by: Occa on April 24, 2017, 07:35:30 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on April 24, 2017, 07:56:41 PM
I really love the scenery, is Finland really like that?
Not seen in panel: mosquitoes, probably.
Post by: Occa on April 24, 2017, 11:09:49 PM
Post by: |Yucca| on April 25, 2017, 09:07:25 AM
I really love the scenery, is Finland really like that?
Yes, about one fifth of Finland is like that.
(http://files.1337upload.net/DSC00791-cb9dd4.jpg)
Talking about the flashback, it got me really, really excited for some reason. Probably because it's a fresh breeze of air to the story.
Post by: Róisín on April 25, 2017, 09:36:24 AM
Post by: urbicande on April 25, 2017, 09:41:23 AM
Post by: Gaemmel on April 25, 2017, 04:32:19 PM
Or am I missing something?
Post by: Anna on April 25, 2017, 06:19:26 PM
Lalli isn't really that young anymore in this page. Means: either his grandma has outlived her sons and their wives, or all of them died not even THAT long ago. Also, if the parents are still alive in this, that means Juha, Jukka, Anne-Mari and Tuulikki were ALL non-immune.I took it to mean that all of the parents were non-immune, but them being dead is a possibility, as they aren't present. We don't know the full circumstances.
Or am I missing something?
Post by: Grade E cat on April 26, 2017, 02:35:18 PM
Post by: Abprallen on April 26, 2017, 02:41:58 PM
I've been interpreting this page (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=383) as meaning that both sets of parents were dead, even when they lived in Saimaa. Notice how Tuuri jumps from Onni to Ensi. She doesn't ask about Lalli's parents.
I interpreted it more as they were the ones who taught/trained him. He'd failed to do his job, something his parents weren't (as far as we know) involved in but his cousin and grandma were.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 26, 2017, 11:20:55 PM
And it seems Onni isn't neurotic because of whatever tragedy drove them to Keuruu - he's just naturally neurotic :))
Post by: Minutia_R on April 27, 2017, 12:02:43 AM
Well, there goes my "Tuuri is secretly immune" theory - unless her parents are in on the conspiracy.
And it seems Onni isn't neurotic because of whatever tragedy drove them to Keuruu - he's just naturally neurotic :))
Eeeeeeh, I'm not sure that "being appalled at the suggestion that you steal a boat and take your baby sister into lake-beast-infested waters to visit a troll-infested island" necessarily qualifies as "neurotic." If nothing else, Onni--who is probably at least twelve by this point? I'm guessing closer to fourteen?--knows perfectly well who would be blamed for such an escapade, assuming they stayed alive long enough to get caught.
Post by: Róisín on April 27, 2017, 01:18:07 AM
Post by: Antillanka on April 27, 2017, 09:42:36 AM
Eeeeeeh, I'm not sure that "being appalled at the suggestion that you steal a boat and take your baby sister into lake-beast-infested waters to visit a troll-infested island" necessarily qualifies as "neurotic." If nothing else, Onni--who is probably at least twelve by this point? I'm guessing closer to fourteen?--knows perfectly well who would be blamed for such an escapade, assuming they stayed alive long enough to get caught.
Hahaha, yeah, I'd rather call him "reasonable" than neurotic in this case... but I'd bet he is a
Post by: Grade E cat on May 01, 2017, 02:37:33 AM
Post by: Anna on May 01, 2017, 03:18:28 AM
Okay, now it looks like Tuuri in scratching the top of her back with both hands... not liking this at all...Or just tucking her hands behind her head in a relaxed or casual sort of way. (She may or may not be feigning being relaxed.) I've done it before, usually while lying down.
Post by: Sc0ut on May 01, 2017, 05:20:38 AM
Okay, now it looks like Tuuri in scratching the top of her back with both hands... not liking this at all...
No, she's just leaning against the door and using her hands as a pillow.
I think if there really was something wrong with her skin, Minna would show it more clearly. When Sigrun's arm was hurting it often had stars coming out of it, and Sigrun's expression was unambiguous (it's in the previous pages but I don't have time to find it now, sorry).
Post by: Grade E cat on May 01, 2017, 08:19:02 AM
Post by: Lazy8 on May 01, 2017, 08:30:41 AM
...then again, we have yet to get any confirmation of exactly when cats start reacting. When the person first develops a rash? When they first start mutating? Or not until they become a full-blown troll?
...I'm not doing a very good job of selling this, am I?
Post by: urbicande on May 01, 2017, 10:49:01 AM
Given that she was shown to be sitting right next to Kitty, who was visibly relaxed, I don't think we have anything to worry about quite yet.
...then again, we have yet to get any confirmation of exactly when cats start reacting. When the person first develops a rash? When they first start mutating? Or not until they become a full-blown troll?
...I'm not doing a very good job of selling this, am I?
We don't know. So don't take Purrito's calm too seriously yet
Post by: Minutia_R on May 02, 2017, 02:41:00 AM
Post by: Ilral on May 02, 2017, 02:58:09 AM
Okay, now it looks like Tuuri in scratching the top of her back with both hands... not liking this at all...I've been doing this exact thing because I have a rash on my back. I'll call you if I start feeling the urge to cApitalize raNdoM leTTERS
Post by: Grade E cat on May 02, 2017, 02:02:26 PM
I've been doing this exact thing because I have a rash on my back. I'll call you if I start feeling the urge to cApitalize raNdoM leTTERS
That's not a complication from the Rash, just one from advance stage Minnionitis.
Spoiler: A little moment of self-deprecation • show
Post by: JacobThomsen on May 11, 2017, 01:51:39 AM
Post by: Miriam on May 11, 2017, 04:40:50 AM
Yay the Cattank is getting closer and closer to my home, but now the question is if the crew drive north or west to get to where the Icelandic ship will pick them up
How do you know where they are driving to, do you recognise the bridge?
I am so lost...
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 11, 2017, 06:35:43 AM
How do you know where they are driving to, do you recognise the bridge?
I am so lost...
The current consensus is that it's the Little Belt Bridge (https://www.google.com/maps?ll=55.518611,9.749167&q=55.518611,9.749167&hl=en&t=h&z=15) between Funen and Jutland
Post by: urbicande on May 11, 2017, 08:18:59 AM
Of course, then the Cat-tank couldn't drive on the bridge.
Post by: Sc0ut on May 11, 2017, 08:55:18 AM
I'm kind of surprised that all the traffic is on only one side. I'd have expect the fleeing populace to have used both sides.
Of course, then the Cat-tank couldn't drive on the bridge.
I'm more curious about what made everyone abandon their cars there. Having the traffic on just one side can be explained if they were convinced that aid is coming in - in that case they would keep one side free for incoming traffic, since it's likely that not everyone cold evacuate, so there were vulnerable people left behind. (Or, if you want a darker and even more convincing reason, imagine armed military at both ends of that bridge directing traffic. It's not unlikely that it got there at some point.) But... why all the abandoned cars?
Post by: thorny on May 11, 2017, 10:04:11 AM
-- on the other hand, as has been pointed out, if there weren't a lane clear the cat tank wouldn't be able to get through.
OK, trying hard: there was still enough sense of order, or enough police presence, to keep the other lane clear for some time; but there was such a traffic jam that people ran out of gas, and once enough cars had done so that it was clear the lane wasn't moving, people climbed out and walked. By the time order/police presence broke down enough that later arrivals moved into the other lane, there were very few people left who were still in shape to drive and who could manage to get there, and those few succeeded in crossing the bridge, so they're not there to block the lane.
ETA: I still don't think that's very likely. But I suppose it's just barely possible.
Post by: Yuuago on May 11, 2017, 10:20:21 AM
there was such a traffic jam that people ran out of gas, and once enough cars had done so that it was clear the lane wasn't moving, people climbed out and walked.
This is exactly what I think happened here.
Petrol wouldn't necessarily be easy to obtain at this time, so chances of running out of gas would be higher than typical. And some people might be surprised at how quickly gas stations can run out of gas even when the situation is not as bad as this. So, if you aren't able to fill up before you leave, and the traffic is slow enough and the jam prolonged enough, you do get lines of cars on the side of the highway. And people walking alongside.
Post by: Róisín on May 11, 2017, 10:42:37 AM
Plus, as you mentioned, there might well be armed police or military trying to control the exodus.
Post by: Keeper on May 11, 2017, 10:56:48 AM
Post by: thorny on May 11, 2017, 02:06:42 PM
Yeah, petrol runs out astonishingly fast in a disaster. As does everything. Most cities might have as much as a week's provision on hand for their population, and many not even that. So people might abandon cars and walk. Also, we don't know yet how fast trollification can take place once it starts. So maybe someone has their sick kid in the car, maybe concealing their illness because surely there will be better medical help wherever they are going, or not realising or admitting that it is the Rash, and they are sitting in that traffic jam when the troll reaches over from the back seat and tears their head off....... Imagine how fast the rest of the queue could be out of their cars and running if that happened.
Plus, as you mentioned, there might well be armed police or military trying to control the exodus.
I think it is necessary to posit some sort of force keeping the other lane open, unless there's a divider between the lanes impassable by even high-clearance cars; as otherwise I would expect that in either of those cases both lanes would wind up blocked, because people who still had gas would try to pull out around cars that weren't moving, and some of the people in panic about a possible troll on the bridge would do likewise; but the other lane would rapidly also jam for the same reasons that the first one did.
Whether having possibly been told that emergency vehicles would be trying to get in would be enough to cause the effect, or whether military/police force would be needed, is another question -- at least, if the issue's running out of gas. I would think that trolls on the bridge would cause at least some people to try to drive out of danger by using the other lane, whatever they'd been told.
Post by: Jharad17 on May 11, 2017, 05:52:46 PM
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on May 11, 2017, 10:33:47 PM
I'm more curious about what made everyone abandon their cars there. Having the traffic on just one side can be explained if they were convinced that aid is coming in - in that case they would keep one side free for incoming traffic, since it's likely that not everyone cold evacuate, so there were vulnerable people left behind. (Or, if you want a darker and even more convincing reason, imagine armed military at both ends of that bridge directing traffic. It's not unlikely that it got there at some point.) But... why all the abandoned cars?
Because traffic was backed up/stopped. Ether from a checkpoint/wreck/ or it just being clogged. So people felt instead of waiting for hours abandoning their cars was faster. And with the influx of reanimated monstrosities I'd abandon my car to in that situation.
Post by: Sc0ut on May 12, 2017, 07:16:31 AM
Yeah. I can imagine scenarios in which people would have left the other lane clear; and I can imagine scenarios in which they either abandoned their cars, or died in them. I'm having trouble imagining one in which both of those things happened.
Exactly.
The other possibility is that both lanes were blocked at the time of the exodus, but that at some later date, say during a Danish Reclamation attempt, vehicles were removed by the military so they could get their own vehicles through. And since the team is heading to one of the Reclamation attempt ports, according to the Home Crew, having already been through the last stand point of Copenhagen, it's likely the Danish Army did some bridge clearing in addition to airport clearing, etc. at that time.
I like this idea, I think it's the only one that adequately explains all this imo.
Because traffic was backed up/stopped. Ether from a checkpoint/wreck/ or it just being clogged. So people felt instead of waiting for hours abandoning their cars was faster. And with the influx of reanimated monstrosities I'd abandon my car to in that situation.
I would certainly try to make an escape on the free lane before deciding to abandon the car in this case, police be damned (I will run police over if they try to prevent me from escaping rash monsters, you heard it here folks). Cars aren't armored like the tank is, but there's no doubt you have more survival chances in one than on foot. (marginal anyway)
Post by: Mayabird on May 12, 2017, 08:49:29 AM
Post by: thorny on May 12, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
I'm not puzzled that some people abandoned cars -- either running out of gas, or somebody in the car trollifying, would explain that. I'm puzzled that other people didn't try to drive around them and fill up the other lane, shortly after which the same problem would occur in the other lane, resulting in abandoned cars on both sides of the road.
A clearing operation some time later would indeed explain it. They wouldn't have needed to clear the whole road, just the places such as bridges where tanks couldn't just go around through the fields.
Post by: JoB on May 12, 2017, 02:14:58 PM
I'm kind of surprised that all the traffic is on only one side. I'd have expect the fleeing populace to have used both sides.I'm afraid that you'll have to take the situation shown as symbolic, rather than a photographic reproduction. :3 For starters, the actual Nye Lillebæltsbro has three lanes per direction:
(http://webcam.trafikken.dk/webcam/weblille.jpg)
Post by: thorny on May 12, 2017, 04:58:13 PM
Electrical fire?
And how much of the tank itself is built out of anything that can burn?
Post by: JoB on May 13, 2017, 05:34:26 AM
Well, let's see. It hasn't got a gas tank.That's not a given. While the actual propulsion system is electric, the batteries are recharged by a multifuel (i.e., combustion) engine + generator. And all the fuels Minna mentioned as acceptable happened to be flammable liquids.
(Though I'ld imagine it to have interesting effects if one were to just throw any suitable find into a single tank, where they'll happily unmix and form strata per density.)
Post by: thorny on May 13, 2017, 10:15:26 AM
That's not a given. While the actual propulsion system is electric, the batteries are recharged by a multifuel (i.e., combustion) engine + generator. And all the fuels Minna mentioned as acceptable happened to be flammable liquids.
That's a point. I guess I wasn't thinking of the combustion chamber as being under the hood; but I suppose it might be. (A gas tank isn't generally under the hood either, but gas lines are. A damaged gas line dripping onto hot engine parts can certainly cause a fire, which is what I was actually thinking couldn't be an issue in this case; but I was apparently too sleepy to type that out clearly.)
Post by: PickleChip on May 14, 2017, 02:26:18 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/OO0LE7h.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QQ5Unul.jpg)
Page 714 vs. Page 94
Oh, how far we have come.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on May 14, 2017, 07:36:37 PM
:(
Post by: Basse on May 14, 2017, 07:51:25 PM
If they abandon that tank they abandon the radio, which means tuuri will never get to say goodbye to onni.
:(
NO ONES DYING!
Onni is recuperating and Tuuri doesn't have the rash yet.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on May 14, 2017, 07:54:14 PM
NO ONES DYING!
Onni is recuperating and Tuuri doesn't have the rash yet.
yet
Post by: Basse on May 14, 2017, 08:08:20 PM
yetThose negative waves of yours won't be helping you anytime soon.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on May 14, 2017, 09:18:39 PM
Those negative waves of yours won't be helping you anytime soon.Pardon me while I squee over the Kelly's Heroes reference.
/>
Post by: yankai on May 14, 2017, 10:06:03 PM
Spoiler: show
Post by: Jharad17 on May 15, 2017, 09:17:06 PM
I fear I'm going to dream all night about the crew having to sleep without a roof, on the road, surrounded by trolls and murderous ghosts (and Tuuri not being able to say goodbye to Onni, but no one's dying, right?? so that part's just our imagination, right???)
Well, there's been some speculation that if a being trollifies or grosslingificates, then they get a ... sort of soul presence in the Dreamworld. Like Cthulhund. So, if Tuuri trollifies, her soul could go hunt
Post by: yankai on May 15, 2017, 10:14:35 PM
Well, there's been some speculation that if a being trollifies or grosslingificates, then they get a ... sort of soul presence in the Dreamworld. Like Cthulhund. So, if Tuuri trollifies, her soul could go huntdownup Onni in the Dreamworld, and they could have their goodbyes then. See? Problem solved. O_O
O_O O_O O_O O_O
Post by: JacobThomsen on May 16, 2017, 11:32:28 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/4BWeDfD.png)
Now if the crew crossed a lot of distance between page 721 and 719 the calculations will of course be off, but if I'm right this would mean that the most realistic location for the extraction location would be somewhere near Aarhus or Mols (marked in green), if the crew is further north than predicted the rest of Djursland would also be possibility. I would consider Mols and the rest of Djursland to be the most realistic place for the location since they weren't that populated and the area near Aarhus would be filled with ruins where all sort of nasty things could hide.
In theory the crew could also cross all of Jutland and end up at the North sea, but since the North sea is often plagued by storms (especially during the winter and autumn) that wouldn’t be an ideal location for an extraction.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 16, 2017, 07:35:13 PM
Oh! And it's also an old base set up by the Danes during the reclaimation attempt. It would be weird for them to go all the way around Jutland!
Post by: Jharad17 on May 16, 2017, 09:06:34 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 17, 2017, 08:29:31 AM
Reynir desperately wants to find Pastor A. His Fylgja was so pleased because it had figured out how to find her, and showed him. Follow the wheelbarrow tracks!
I reckon their path to the pickup point is going to go past a very familiar looking old church.
(Now for Minna to prove me completely wrong... :) )
Post by: thorny on May 17, 2017, 10:23:05 AM
And I hope you're right that their path will take them near enough to the church for Reynir to spot it. I've been looking hopefully at buildings here and there ever since he promised the pastor they'd find her; but of course nothing's looked right so far.
Post by: Occa on May 19, 2017, 12:20:36 AM
a blep
Post by: Grade E cat on May 19, 2017, 02:22:30 PM
Also, on a personal level, I suspect that the loss of his fylgja is temporarily impeding Reynir's ability to communicate via dreamspace in some way.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on May 19, 2017, 03:20:32 PM
I'm thinking of something. Several fanfics that have the crew catching the ship have a mage onboard the ship. But if there is one on the canon boat, and that boat departed in late Chapter 12, how much time before that mage is able to go say hi to Lalli and/or Reynir? Especially since we may be looking at someone who feels comfortable crossing bigger distances than Reynir.
Also, on a personal level, I suspect that the loss of his fylgja is temporarily impeding Reynir's ability to communicate via dreamspace in some way.
Can Norse magic users even lose their fylgja?
Post by: Grade E cat on May 19, 2017, 04:25:45 PM
Can Norse magic users even lose their fylgja?
It seems that many interpreted pages 717 and 718 as exactly that happening, and I'm among them until we know more.
Post by: JoB on May 19, 2017, 05:13:03 PM
It seems that many interpreted pages 717 and 718 as exactly that happening, and I'm among them until we know more.... frankly, I cannot see a fylgja getting truly separated from its owner with a huge smile on its face. That's a bad thing to happen to a human's protecting spirit and embodiment of his luck.
Post by: Róisín on May 19, 2017, 07:27:32 PM
But usually the Luck doesn't leave a human until death.
Post by: Grade E cat on May 20, 2017, 02:36:57 AM
Still wondering about hypothetical mages that could be on the Icelandic rescue boat and their capacity to reach those on the expedition, though.
Post by: wavewright62 on May 20, 2017, 04:00:51 AM
That's what I get for speculating with about zero knowledge of Norse mythology. Maybe it's just taking some sort of break from work, then.*braces herself for the replies of those who know the material*
Still wondering about hypothetical mages that could be on the Icelandic rescue boat and their capacity to reach those on the expedition, though.
From what I understand (via http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87)), most Icelandic seiður operate more in the realms of prophetic dreaming and casting of spells via runes, and may not have grasped the concept that any strangers they see may be other mages, let alone manipulate the phenomenon as a method of regular communication. The Finns have grasped it, though, to the extent that even non-mages know about it.
It could happen, but not through the intent of anyone other than Reynir.
Post by: JoB on May 20, 2017, 04:29:26 AM
Still wondering about hypothetical mages that could be on the Icelandic rescue boat and their capacity to reach those on the expedition, though.The unknown factor there is how much of a preestablished link needs to be between the mages for them to find each other in the dreamscape. Lalli saw Reynir at a distance, but Reynir didn't see him until after they had made real-world contact. Next thing, Reynir "visited" Lalli in his haven, got treedirected - and chanced on Onnis haven, which he recognized from Tuuris family photo, effectively skipping over all the mages that must've been between Amager and Keuruu. (Yes, yes, officially no mages in post-Rash Denmark and Sweden, but there's still a bit of Finland on the trajectory and if Onni can show up in Mora unannounced, don't tell me that established travel itineraries to and from Finland will not be used by the occasional noita.)
Post by: Grade E cat on May 20, 2017, 06:09:29 AM
The unknown factor there is how much of a preestablished link needs to be between the mages for them to find each other in the dreamscape. Lalli saw Reynir at a distance, but Reynir didn't see him until after they had made real-world contact. Next thing, Reynir "visited" Lalli in his haven, got treedirected - and chanced on Onnis haven, which he recognized from Tuuris family photo, effectively skipping over all the mages that must've been between Amager and Keuruu. (Yes, yes, officially no mages in post-Rash Denmark and Sweden, but there's still a bit of Finland on the trajectory and if Onni can show up in Mora unannounced, don't tell me that established travel itineraries to and from Finland will not be used by the occasional noita.)
Interesting. Never considered the pre-established link part. I understood Reynir not seeing Lalli being due to Lalli getting dragged underwater by the time Reynir realized someone was calling him. I also had the impression that Onni had at least left Finland by the time Reynir ran into him (we have no idea how long he had been in Sweden by the time the quartet found him, and that was only two days after Reynir ran into him). Never wondered about the lack of other Finnish mages on the way. Now, if a pre-established link is needed, there is always my objectively-dodgy-but-great-for-fanfics headcanon that one of Reynir's sisters is a mage.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 20, 2017, 07:22:20 AM
From what I understand (via http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87)), most Icelandic seiður operate more in the realms of prophetic dreaming and casting of spells via runes, and may not have grasped the concept that any strangers they see may be other mages, let alone manipulate the phenomenon as a method of regular communication.
That said, Onni did comment that Icelandic mages blundering into people's havens is "something they just do" (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=330). Whether the seiður in question realise the people yelling at them are Finnish mages as opposed to particularly obtuse visions is another matter entirely :)
Post by: midwestmutt on May 20, 2017, 07:46:22 AM
I agree with JoB. In the sagas, the loss of Fylgja is usually a far more serious affair, distressing to both parties. It happens in rare instances where the behaviour of the human has so disgusted their fylga that she abandons them. Those people, when they die, can become the Icelandic style of evil ghost, quite material, capable of killing humans and other things, and very willing to do so. The kind that turns up in the Sagas, and in the rune list there is one to be used 'When troublesome ghosts/ ride the rafters aloft/ I can make it so that they wander astray'.I also think his disappearance was more a dramatic exit than a sinister development. He had delivered his message so it was time for the vision to end.
But usually the Luck doesn't leave a human until death.
Post by: Anna on May 20, 2017, 08:57:48 AM
That said, Onni did comment that Icelandic mages blundering into people's havens is "something they just do" (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=330). Whether the seiður in question realise the people yelling at them are Finnish mages as opposed to particularly obtuse visions is another matter entirely :)*imagines future!Reynír bawling out a more experienced colleague for charging through a noita's haven…only to find that they had no idea what they were doing*
Post by: JoB on May 21, 2017, 08:47:04 AM
Whether the seiður in question realise the people yelling at them are Finnish mages as opposed to particularly obtuse visions is another matter entirely :)Seiðkona [barging into Nordic Council meeting]: "I had a vision that we're going to discover a tribe of survivors, if amazingly rude and on the brink of losing their sanity, somewhere East of Sweden! We need to send an expedition at once to get them out of that barren place!"
Finnish representative: [gets ready to strangle her]
Post by: Quirkwood on May 23, 2017, 06:13:08 AM
I'd just like to check if anybody else is quietly freaking out in an imaginary corner about the one week break and wondering what horrible, marvellous, still HORRIBLE things Minna might be drawing right now?! I mean, what kind of huge, man-eating thing would require something like 9 pages in a row just to wreak havoc? Or am I being a pessimist here? Maybe it's just 9 pages of a raging surprise party in the town (wait, that sounds just as scary)?
Do you think that, whatever it is, it's gonna take place during Emil's and Lalli's shopping trip?
Spoiler: show
Sorry for the bursting into the thread, I'm merely looking for a way to hold on until next week @__@
Post by: Lazy8 on May 23, 2017, 07:29:09 AM
Hi, ehm, is it all right if I slightly change the subject?
I'd just like to check if anybody else is quietly freaking out in an imaginary corner about the one week break and wondering what horrible, marvellous, still HORRIBLE things Minna might be drawing right now?! I mean, what kind of huge, man-eating thing would require something like 9 pages in a row just to wreak havoc? Or am I being a pessimist here? Maybe it's just 9 pages of a raging surprise party in the town (wait, that sounds just as scary)?
Do you think that, whatever it is, it's gonna take place during Emil's and Lalli's shopping trip?Or is Reynir going to have some more of his weird magical journeys?Spoiler: show
Sorry for the bursting into the thread, I'm merely looking for a way to hold on until next week @__@
Nope, I've also totally been freaking out in my own little corner. Things that have occurred to me:
- Tuuri's infection
- Sigrun's arm (nope, still haven't forgotten the infamous Amputation Discussion)
- Sleipnope
- "It"
- Any number of other things that could happen now that they've lost their shelter and their runic protection and one experienced mage is in a coma and the other is asleep on his feet and their leader is sick and the person who's taken charge instead might not actually know what he's doing...
Yeah. I've been panicking.
Post by: Róisín on May 23, 2017, 08:47:54 AM
Post by: Quirkwood on May 23, 2017, 10:14:58 AM
I guess the question about Tuuri now is: IS she infected? If she's not, great. If she is, how is she going to be cured (because I'm in denial and refuse to consider the idea she can't)? I wouldn't rely on Mikkel, he seems like a pretty
Another question is: what the hell is Reynir doing right now?! Is he having a major freakout somewhere in the tank? Or is he bursting into everybody's dreams through the whole Scandinavia, just kicking doors open and screaming?
Oh, and Sleipnope. Sleipnope would certainly be a good enough reason to draw 9 consecutive pages of absolute panic.
I think we've all been panicking. At least for me, this being the busiest time of my working year, I haven't much free time in which to panic! I guess we could always distract ourselves with making art, fanfic, cosplay or just conversation. Ironically, I won't have a chance to actually see the first new page next week, at least not until very late in the evening, since that is the day I have a garden club visiting my garden, and I'm still clearing up storm damage.
Well, at least a garden club seems like a relaxed thing which can keep you sane during the day...
Post by: JoB on May 23, 2017, 12:48:18 PM
that is the day I have a garden club visiting my gardenYie. Good luck keeping your garden unclubbed ...
I guess the question about Tuuri now is: IS she infected?Having the progression of Tuuris infection mirrored in how Kitty reacts to her presence would be a very good reason to work on the pages depicting it en bloc. Since Kitty cannot speak, it would all need to be mirrored in body stance, which is something that might necessitate revising the pages to death ... just sayin'.
Another question is: what the hell is Reynir doing right now?! Is he having a major freakout somewhere in the tank? Or is he bursting into everybody's dreams through the whole Scandinavia, just kicking doors open and screaming?That would be, well, panicking. With no hope to improve anything with it. No other mage has experience with murderghosts (yet), no Danes (who might know about A) who are mages, etc..
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 23, 2017, 07:21:50 PM
I guess the question about Tuuri now is: IS she infected? If she's not, great. If she is, how is she going to be cured (because I'm in denial and refuse to consider the idea she can't)?
My theory (which I've brought up before) is a combination of the old vaccine (kills the disease but casts the soul out of the body) and Finnish magery (guiding the soul back into the body long before it can become an insane murder ghost) would work.
Having the progression of Tuuris infection mirrored in how Kitty reacts to her presence would be a very good reason to work on the pages depicting it en bloc.
No no no no no no no no no!
(Obligatory no no kitty (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKI-tD0L18A))
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on May 23, 2017, 08:56:41 PM
My theory (which I've brought up before) is a combination of the old vaccine (kills the disease but casts the soul out of the body) and Finnish magery (guiding the soul back into the body long before it can become an insane murder ghost) would work.
No no no no no no no no no!
(Obligatory no no kitty (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKI-tD0L18A))
Probably a bit of a mixture of Finnish and Norse magic in reality, but likely Norse as well because Norse has a bit more to do with medicine than Finnish. Mikkel mentioned a spiritual healer during the hospital getaway. http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=616
The Disease pretty much corrupts T H E S O U L as well.The rash destroys your humanity, thats why they get confused and family members can't reach them anymore. Because they lose the essence of who they are.
Sounds like Dark Souls.
Post by: Kitty_katie on May 23, 2017, 10:09:26 PM
Probably a bit of a mixture of Finnish and Norse magic in reality, but likely Norse as well because Norse has a bit more to do with medicine than Finnish. Mikkel mentioned a spiritual healer during the hospital getaway. http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=616
The Disease pretty much corrupts T H E S O U L as well.The rash destroys your humanity, thats why they get confused and family members can't reach them anymore. Because they lose the essence of who they are.
Sounds like Dark Souls.
I have a fic along similar lines. Now I just need to post it before we're proven wrong.
Post by: wavewright62 on May 25, 2017, 12:14:50 AM
I reserve judgement on what she has cooking for us in that amazing cauldron of hers for this page dump.
Post by: Solokov on June 03, 2017, 05:32:52 PM
Was minna foreshadowing Turri getting hurt way back on page 189?
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on June 03, 2017, 07:47:45 PM
Sooooo... I've been re-reading things...Funny enough I have seen on page 307 that reynir says 'he can fix the glass' might be hinting at him helping her.
Was minna foreshadowing Turri getting hurt way back on page 189?
Post by: urbicande on June 06, 2017, 09:27:04 AM
A sign of spring! When the weather gets warmer and trolls and beasts are more active!
Post by: Ragnarok on June 06, 2017, 09:33:31 AM
Post by: Shine on June 06, 2017, 05:21:48 PM
So Emil has apparently sensed that Reynir, growing depressed, is vulnerable to being toppled from the position of Overly Optimistic Cinnamon Roll. With great cunning he has schemed to usurp the position by exploiting the friendshipping tendencies of the Minnions...How incredibly devious of him...do we want him to succeed?
Post by: Quirkwood on June 06, 2017, 06:30:22 PM
How incredibly devious of him...do we want him to succeed?I suppose we do, even though he would make a very scary Overly Optimistic Cinnamon Roll, what with the explosives and flamethrowers and all.
I just think that he, Reynir and Lalli are the Clueless Young Ones of the situation, with Lalli being clueless in a different way (at least he knows how to survive and he knows about Finnish magic). Reynir and Emil are clueless as in "I am a huge puppy-dog and my place is in an animal sanctuary" ^^ No but really, I'm excited to see them growing up into a fierce warrior and wizard.
Till then, I suppose they'll take turns for the role of Overly Optimistic Cinnamon Roll of the group. Gods know this group needs cinnamon rolls.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 08, 2017, 03:58:21 AM
Post by: Caro on June 08, 2017, 04:11:28 AM
On the other, I hope he doesn't lash out at Emil again for things that are not his fault.
He definitely looks mad enough to lash out, even angrier than last time. He's had nobody to vent to and no way to deal with his anger and frustration. He can't talk to Tuuri because she doesn't want herself or Lalli to worry, and there's no-one else who even speaks his language. Lashing out is imminent. Emil doesn't deserve it though; he's just trying to help, even if he's being somewhat naive about it. Lalli really needs someone to cry to.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 08, 2017, 08:07:19 AM
Post by: urbicande on June 08, 2017, 09:43:11 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on June 08, 2017, 11:08:58 AM
Emil was being pretty insensitive by saying that they're both going to be happier now thanks to their friendship to someone who was facing the encroaching death of a family member. This is far worse than the soup incident, when even though Minna had shown the readers what Lalli was so upset about it was painfully clear that Emil had no clue, nor any means to get a clue before Lalli lashed out at him. This, though... even foot-in-the-mouth Emil should have known better than to say something like that! No, he doesn't deserve a physical lashing-out, but I am very glad that Lalli is at least trying to set him straight.
So I take it you've never seen people say "it's gonna be okay" to comfort others or themselves, even in situations where nobody had any idea if things will be okay, or horrible? It's actually a pretty natural and common thing, if illogical. Sometimes literally the only thing that keeps people going is hope in a positive outcome (no matter how unlikely). Right now, we don't know if Tuuri is infected (even though half the comment section started to mourn her as soon as she got bitten) so they may in fact still be all happy and okay come summer. Emil is pointing out a possible outcome. And he's doing it because he hopes to help his friend feel better. Can't see how he deserves to be "set straight" over this.
Post by: thorny on June 08, 2017, 12:45:57 PM
So I take it you've never seen people say "it's gonna be okay" to comfort others or themselves, even in situations where nobody had any idea if things will be okay, or horrible? It's actually a pretty natural and common thing
This is true; but in cases in which the person it's said to has reason to think that no, it's not gonna be okay, it can backfire.
I remember a case in the news years ago -- OK, I'd better figure out how to do spoilers; warning for violence and severe selfharm.
Spoiler: show
Post by: JoB on June 08, 2017, 01:11:31 PM
Right now, we don't know if Tuuri is infected (even though half the comment section started to mourn her as soon as she got bitten)Tuuri accepted it as a possibility when talking with Reynir, and all canon knowledge we have about the Illness suggests that with non-immune, it doesn't stop short of a 99+% "possibility", no matter how much it is in Tuuri's character to stay an optimist.
Which is to say, of course her plot armor is likely to come up with a miracle, but it'll be a miracle in the eyes of the characters, not what they expected beforehand.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 08, 2017, 01:15:06 PM
Spoiler: show
But we have no way to check which one of us has it right, so *shrug*. I'm far from being an optimist and I don't go spouting positive shit all day, but it sure helps me to know that my friends care when I'm in trouble, even if they don't always show it in the best possible way. (And yes, Emil didn't choose the best way to go about it, but come on, it's Emil).
all canon knowledge we have about the Illness suggests that with non-immune, it doesn't stop short of a 99+% "possibility"
Can you point me to where in canon we learned this, please? This is not my impression, but of course it's possible I'm missing something.
Post by: JoB on June 08, 2017, 02:58:09 PM
Can you point me to where in canon we learned this, please? This is not my impression, but of course it's possible I'm missing something.There's a classification of grosslings into the infection vectors they may use here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=437). Since the one in question was obviously not a "breather", we're talking about its teeth, some other body part, or its spit having gotten under Tuuri's skin. She had a wound in her shoulder that had bled right through her jacket in the mere seconds it took Lalli to get inside; if it had been only spit that hit her (and the wound was caused by flying debris or somesuch instead), she would have removed the contaminated jacket as fast as she could, hoping to have it off her before the germs make it to the inside. So, we can take for granted that Tuuri had actually some troll in her flesh.
Given that, we can apply the knowledge that was stated about the consequences of direct contact between grossling and the wounds of a non-immune. Here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=429) Mikkel suggests that infection through contaminated significant wounds is at least as likely as through a non-masked, breathing mouth - and that's the vector that got most of pre-Rash humanity killed. Here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=123) Tuuri suggests that her entering Mora without a quarantine period could, in her opinion, get the whole of Outer Mora killed - and that's though she hasn't been near any contamination throughout the trip from Keuruu. In the same vein, she later suggests (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=129) that outbreaks tend to sweep entire villages. Siv and all her colleagues - surely there are immune among them? - work in full hazmat suits (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=138), even though the grosslings sealed in those glass cylinders should be dead and, thus, have turned noninfectious before they ever got into the lab. The crew of Túnfiskurinn was scheduled to go into quarantine (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=297) upon return to Iceland, in spite of them not being allowed to leave the ship - in Reynirs and Ólafurs case, the cabins - before that in the first place.
No, it's not like anyone has said "on screen" that you have x% of probability of infection per sq in of wound surface left by a troll, or that even a pin prick, if only deep enough, is a death sentence. But their actions speak reams, I'ld say.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 08, 2017, 03:25:52 PM
No, it's not like anyone has said "on screen" that you have x% of probability of infection per sq in of wound surface left by a troll, or that even a pin prick, if only deep enough, is a death sentence.
Thank you, that's what I wanted to hear ;) I'll go by what Mikkel says here for now: http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=660
It's obvious they take all possible protection measures against the rash, because avoiding an outbreak is worth the hassle. We cannot, however, determine from this that contact with a vector results in a 99% chance of getting infected, or 70% or 30%. All we know is it's non-negligible. So, I'm not relaxed about Tuuri yet, but I also don't think it would necessarily be a miracle for her not to get infected. Most real viral and bacterial illnesses work similarly, too. It is possible to be around people with the flu and not get infected, for instance, even if you're not vaccined. The risk is different for different illnesses (and levels of proximity) but doubt there's any scenario where the disease spreads 100% or 99% of the time.
Post by: Antillanka on June 08, 2017, 03:37:01 PM
He definitely looks mad enough to lash out, even angrier than last time. He's had nobody to vent to and no way to deal with his anger and frustration. He can't talk to Tuuri because she doesn't want herself or Lalli to worry, and there's no-one else who even speaks his language. Lashing out is imminent. Emil doesn't deserve it though; he's just trying to help, even if he's being somewhat naive about it. Lalli really needs someone to cry to.
YES!
I don't know why I think it would do Lalli so much good! And Emil is ideal for the "shoulder" role.
Post by: JoB on June 08, 2017, 04:56:21 PM
Thank you, that's what I wanted to hear ;) I'll go by what Mikkel says here for now: http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=660... yeah, because him saying outright that he's worried about the effect on morale is such a clear sign that he speaks nothing but the full truth there ...
Most real viral and bacterial illnesses work similarly, too.Sorry, no, they don't. There's not a single real world illness, including the products of military laboratories, that stands a chance of wiping out 99.9+% of humanity in the way shown with the Rash. (Release a B weapon and then start persistent suppressing artillery fire against efforts to have it contained and you might get close to that in the designated target region.) Considering that the dead stop to be infectious within hours - that's faster than some of the deceased's tissues will be fully dead, for crying out loud! -, the Rash needs to have a truly unprecedented success rate at infecting more victims to do what it did.
Post by: Róisín on June 08, 2017, 09:58:43 PM
Post by: thorny on June 08, 2017, 10:09:13 PM
We cannot, however, determine from this that contact with a vector results in a 99% chance of getting infected, or 70% or 30%. All we know is it's non-negligible.
It's possible that the disease has changed significantly in 90 years. However: we do know that it wiped out most of the population of the world in a matter of weeks or months. That implies not only a near-100% rate of dying or trollifying once infected, but an astonishingly high chance of getting infected in the first place.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 08, 2017, 11:16:40 PM
So I take it you've never seen people say "it's gonna be okay" to comfort others or themselves, even in situations where nobody had any idea if things will be okay, or horrible? It's actually a pretty natural and common thing, if illogical. Sometimes literally the only thing that keeps people going is hope in a positive outcome (no matter how unlikely). Right now, we don't know if Tuuri is infected (even though half the comment section started to mourn her as soon as she got bitten) so they may in fact still be all happy and okay come summer. Emil is pointing out a possible outcome. And he's doing it because he hopes to help his friend feel better. Can't see how he deserves to be "set straight" over this.
Um... why do you think I reacted like that? I most emphatically do not want to hear someone tell me "It's gonna be okay" in a situation where it it painfully clear that it is NOT, I don't care how close they are to me. I've also seen multiple other people react badly to hearing others offer platitudes or silver linings at a time when everything was falling apart. So yes, Emil very much does need to be set straight, because no matter how much he's trying, it's clear that his attempt at offering platitudes was incredibly painful for Lalli, and if he's not corrected, he is going to keep hurting Lalli, which I am sure he doesn't want to do.
ETA: Kindly do not make assumptions as to what I have or haven't seen or experienced. Because yes, I might very well be reacting on the basis of personal experience.
Post by: Solokov on June 09, 2017, 02:29:08 AM
... well at least he caught something?
Post by: Grade E cat on June 09, 2017, 03:11:11 AM
Also, just thought of something while writing this down: remember how some of us supected mage powers could let Lalli and/or Reynir know whether Tuuri is infected or not before she actually shows symptoms? Lalli's words are "all of it is going to happen all over again". Not "may", "is". Granted that the depressive mindset could also simply be convincing him that Tuuri's bite is go wrong in the worst way possible, but several of us did consider the possibility his mage powers could give him an extra edge on Tuuri's health status. This page may very well be a confirmation of that situation... or I could get proven wrong on Monday.
Post by: Windfighter on June 09, 2017, 03:27:09 AM
Also, just thought of something while writing this down: remember how some of us supected mage powers could let Lalli and/or Reynir know whether Tuuri is infected or not before she actually shows symptoms?
Something like this maybe
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a84047624de20bc59958438544c0d578/tumblr_oqxytk2x8u1wq1imjo1_1280.jpg)
??? 0=)
(wow, it feels like ages since I arted that one)
Post by: Caro on June 09, 2017, 03:30:29 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on June 09, 2017, 03:40:58 AM
Um... why do you think I reacted like that? I most emphatically do not want to hear someone tell me "It's gonna be okay" in a situation where it it painfully clear that it is NOT, I don't care how close they are to me. I've also seen multiple other people react badly to hearing others offer platitudes or silver linings at a time when everything was falling apart. So yes, Emil very much does need to be set straight, because no matter how much he's trying, it's clear that his attempt at offering platitudes was incredibly painful for Lalli, and if he's not corrected, he is going to keep hurting Lalli, which I am sure he doesn't want to do.
ETA: Kindly do not make assumptions as to what I have or haven't seen or experienced. Because yes, I might very well be reacting on the basis of personal experience.
Good job making it all about you and your preferences. I just wanted to discuss the comic, not become your punching bag because I don't share your views on "platitudes". I won't further discuss this with you.
It's possible that the disease has changed significantly in 90 years. However: we do know that it wiped out most of the population of the world in a matter of weeks or months. That implies not only a near-100% rate of dying or trollifying once infected, but an astonishingly high chance of getting infected in the first place.
This is a good point: yes, the level of destruction would suggest it's way more infectious than anything we know.
However, one major difference from any real life illness is that a part of the infected don't simply die, but transform into trolls that can apparently rip through buildings and armored vehicles (so imagine how they can rip through unarmed humans who don't know what to expect... especially a lot of doctors and nurses very early on). I'm guessing a lot of the population didn't just die from the Rash but also in general troll-inflicted violence, starvation because of the gradual isolation of communities, big drop in hygiene levels and availability of medication etc etc. The chaos that must've ensued probably made it difficult to apply many methods to contain diseases that are effective in "normal" circumstances. This, along with the fact that trolls have a very long lifespan, makes it possible to have a very destructive epidemic even if the disease isn't THAT infectious.
One more point I wanted to make is that SSSS is not hard sci-fi, and it doesn't make sense to treat it as such. Minna is not an expert in medicine and doesn't seem like the type to research very in-depth, so it is possible that the Rash behaves a bit inconsistently, adapting to plot needs. That's why I generally believe only what canon explicitly says, keep suppositions to a minimum and have given up the habit of making predictions. Basically, I'll believe it when I see it. Of course, this doesn't mean everyone should do the same ;) I'll leave you guys to it.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 09, 2017, 04:16:39 AM
Good job making it all about you and your preferences. I just wanted to discuss the comic, not become your punching bag because I don't share your views on "platitudes". I won't further discuss this with you.
Gee, maybe because I was trying to consider Lalli's point of view rather than just Emil's, and providing an example of how that might work? The second you said "So I take it you've never seen..." was when this conversation became about me rather than the characters. Plus I fail to see how pointing out that I've seen multiple people react negatively to this was making anything "all about me", nor how offering evidence as to why I disagree with your opinion constitutes "making you a punching bag."
Post by: Gwenno on June 09, 2017, 08:59:50 AM
There are a lot of different ways people can attempt to offer comfort, and while I believe that Emil was sincere in what he was doing, his experience in life meant that he really had little idea of how Lalli would react. I genuinely think that if Emil was upset, this kind of comforting phrase (baseless though the comfort may be), would make him feel better. While some people may go for the "everything will be ok" method, merely for lack of inspiration for anything else to say, or lack of empathy or understanding of the other's feelings, I don't think this applies to Emil. I think he genuinely thought this would make Lalli feel better. While there's been some wonderful ideas about Lalli and Emil's lives before the expedition over in the scriptorium, to this point the cannon is still a little bare. To generalise however, Emil's upbringing was softer in a lot of ways, whereas Lalli's was potentially very, very hard, and I think this is one of the points where the difference between the two of them becomes painfully obvious, if only to us and Lalli.
Post by: Grade E cat on June 09, 2017, 09:22:12 AM
Something like this maybe
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a84047624de20bc59958438544c0d578/tumblr_oqxytk2x8u1wq1imjo1_1280.jpg)
??? 0=)
(wow, it feels like ages since I arted that one)
Yes, I remember this drawing of yours well. Around that time, being the discreet Reynir fan-girl that I am, I was wondering how his magic vision worked with the intermediate stages between "healthy soul" (invisible to him) and "full-on ghost" (clearly visible to him). Her soul turning out to have become visible to him was my headcanon as to how Tuuri's infection would be revealed.
Post by: thorny on June 09, 2017, 09:56:09 AM
He presumably didn't know exactly what was going to happen, or he would have gotten that troll, or at least tried to, before it bit Tuuri. But he's known for quite a while that disaster of some sort was going to happen.
What we don't know is how accurate his form of knowledge is. Maybe it's not 100% and there's still some chance that things will work out.
-- on the other subject, even in far less drastic cases than the one I cited, it can be infuriating rather than soothing to be told that things will be OK when they clearly won't be, or when it's unlikely that they will be. It is indeed something people commonly do, intending to be comforting; but, unless it almost certainly will be all right, and/or the comforter can do something about it, I'd avoid it. 'It'll be OK, I'll drive you to work so you won't lose your job because your car broke down' is great. 'It'll be OK, you'll get over your grief about your partner's upcoming long painful death from something incurable' is fairly awful. Even in some cases in which it almost certainly will be OK it's likely not to be a good thing to say; 'It'll be OK, when you're 35 you'll be glad that person broke up with you back when you were 15' is not particularly useful; while some people may take it well others may be furious.
And it's all too likely to come across as Róisín said is true in some cases: as wanting the person in trouble to join in denial so that the person supposedly comforting them can feel better. This may not be what's meant; but it may well be what's heard.
TL; DR. Short version: when trying to comfort someone, please remember that people are different, and that to be effective comfort needs to suit the one being comforted.
Slightly longer: providing information about those differences is not meant to be an insult; it's meant to be an explanation. If you and/or your friends been going around telling everybody 'it's going to be OK', this doesn't mean those of us who don't find that helpful think you and/or your friends are terrible people. It only means that we'd like you to think about those differences in the future.
Post by: Antillanka on June 09, 2017, 10:40:45 AM
TL; DR. Short version: when trying to comfort someone, please remember that people are different, and that to be effective comfort needs to suit the one being comforted.
Yeah, or you can accept that you don't hold the "okay-ness" of the future, but offer your help and support for whatever that comes.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 09, 2017, 02:44:03 PM
TL; DR. Short version: when trying to comfort someone, please remember that people are different, and that to be effective comfort needs to suit the one being comforted.
I agree, hence me saying "Emil did not pick the best way to do this". (I also don't say this myself, though funnily enough it does help me to hear it.)
I was only arguing with the idea that Emil needs to be somehow punished for not getting it right, despite his heart being in the right place. I think we could all do with a bit more of "appreciating the intent behind an awkward yet friendly gesture" (though I don't exactly expect it of Lalli at this point, of course). But, to each their own, and I know it's possible to be annoyed with a well-meaning gesture, despite yourself. I'm sorry I seem to have opened such a long and unpleasant conversation, and managed to convey something different than I intended, to boot.
Yeah, or you can accept that you don't hold the "okay-ness" of the future, but offer your help and support for whatever that comes.This is a great way to put it, and offers something to say when nothing positive can be said about the situation itself. As an awkward person myself, thank you :)
Post by: thorny on June 09, 2017, 05:35:37 PM
I was only arguing with the idea that Emil needs to be somehow punished for not getting it right, despite his heart being in the right place.
Oh, I don't think punishing Emil would be useful. While Mother Nature often punishes people for being clueless, I think humans should try to avoid doing so; for one thing everybody's clueless about something, for another instruction tends to work IMO better than punishment anyway, at least when deliberate meanness isn't the issue; and I think it's obvious that Emil's not trying to be mean, rather the reverse.
Edited to remove last sentence, because when I took a second look at the thread it made no sense.
Edited twice, to say that I don't think anybody's said in this thread that Emil should be punished -- only that he should be "set straight"; which I took to mean that he needs to be told that he's screwing up. That's not a punishment, unless the person being told insists on taking it as such; and it's sometimes a necessity.
What Lalli might do isn't necessarily the best thing to do either. Lalli's rather socially clueless himself, in a different fashion; and I don't think anybody's said that his reactions are likely to be ideal.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 09, 2017, 07:32:42 PM
I was only arguing with the idea that Emil needs to be somehow punished for not getting it right, despite his heart being in the right place. I think we could all do with a bit more of "appreciating the intent behind an awkward yet friendly gesture" (though I don't exactly expect it of Lalli at this point, of course). But, to each their own, and I know it's possible to be annoyed with a well-meaning gesture, despite yourself. I'm sorry I seem to have opened such a long and unpleasant conversation, and managed to convey something different than I intended, to boot.
Where ever did I say that Emil needs to be "punished" for not getting it right? I said Emil needs to be set straight so he doesn't do it again. (Also, good job blatantly misinterpreting me for offering a point of view that differed from yours (this after going on about how you saying that hoping the crew's disregard for the pain they were causing infected entities "came back to bite them" wasn't intended to mean they should be "punished") and then accusing me of being overly aggressive...)
Post by: Antillanka on June 09, 2017, 07:54:28 PM
Where ever did I say that Emil needs to be "punished" for not getting it right? I said Emil needs to be set straight so he doesn't do it again...
... but I wonder, who would set him straight? Not Lalli. Sigrun doesn't meddle in those problems. Tuuri doesn't do "straight". Mikkel wouldn't understand Lalli's concerns. Your only possibility is Minna, and she won't do it magically, but by slooooow and painful character growth.
Peace out.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 09, 2017, 08:14:14 PM
... but I wonder, who would set him straight? Not Lalli. Sigrun doesn't meddle in those problems. Tuuri doesn't do "straight". Mikkel wouldn't understand Lalli's concerns. Your only possibility is Minna, and she won't do it magically, but by slooooow and painful character growth.
Peace out.
Well, like I said, I was glad to see that Lalli was trying rather than just bottling it all in and pretending that everything's okay. I think that eventually, Lalli will be the one to do that... it's just, as you said, going to be incredibly slow and painful.
Post by: Occa on June 12, 2017, 01:59:32 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on June 12, 2017, 05:12:18 AM
So Emil has apparently sensed that Reynir, growing depressed, is vulnerable to being toppled from the position of Overly Optimistic Cinnamon Roll. With great cunning he has schemed to usurp the position by exploiting the friendshipping tendencies of the Minnions...
Late on the draw, but you win an internet for this one, I reckon.
Spoiler: "No drama thanks" • show
Post by: Lazy8 on June 12, 2017, 07:47:18 AM
I continue to be both puzzled and frustrated by the number of people claiming that Lalli is being an ungrateful brat because he reacted badly to Emil's little pep talk. Was Emil trying to be hurtful or selfish? No, definitely not. Was his heart in the right place? Of course it was - he's Emil. But telling Lalli, who's clearly been depressed and is currently facing the death of one of his only remaining family members, that everything's going to be better for both of them because friendship and a flower, was still really insensitive. The fact that Emil had his heart in the right place, or that he didn't mean to be insensitive, doesn't change the fact that he was, in fact, insensitive. And even before today's page, when Lalli did in fact go too far, the reactions of "Lalli better not hurt Emil's feelings!" - never mind that Emil had already hurt Lalli's feelings, albeit inadvertently - were nothing short of disturbing.
It's also disturbing to see Lalli's genuine reasons to be upset be reduced to a toddler throwing a tantrum. One of his last two remaining family members just got handed a guaranteed death sentence. The other one is in a coma. He's being constantly taunted by a murderous horse ghost that's already nearly killed him twice. We've already seen two people (Tuuri and Mikkel) invalidate his feelings in favor of pushing him into behaving the way that they wanted him to behave. So when one of the last remaining people he thinks he can trust says, not even "It's going to be okay," but "Everything's going to be better for me therefore it must be better for you too, and hey, you have my friendship, therefore things are going to be great!", it's hardly a mystery why he finally snapped.
And I don't know whether people are so enamored of Emil that they don't want to admit he's capable of ever doing anything wrong even by accident (never mind that one of his earliest established character flaws is a penchant for putting his foot in his mouth and chewing hard), or can't bear to see him censured for anything because even just trying ought to be good enough no matter how hurtful it is and Lalli ought to just shut up and take it on top of everything else that's been going wrong in his life, but the character bashing in general and the Lalli bashing in particular is really getting old. Does Emil deserve to have something thrown in his face again or for Lalli to cut him off over this? No, of course not - but he does need to be made to understand that his well-meaning but incredibly misguided attempt at comfort is not only not making things better, it's actively making things worse. And if Emil, who up to this point had been doing so well at the whole empathy thing, completely failed to read Lalli's body language and tone of voice in favor of picking out the one word that he wanted to hear, then well... maybe Lalli needs to do something more forceful to get that understanding across. It'll be painful, and I have no doubt that nobody will be fully in the right, but at this point it feels like something that needs to happen.
Post by: Ragnarok on June 12, 2017, 08:01:23 AM
Snip
This is pretty much exactly what I saw in the scene. Emil's screwing up big-time, and Lalli's perfectly within his rights to act as he is.
There are Lalli-bashers? I'm glad I don't read the comments.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 12, 2017, 08:15:48 AM
This is pretty much exactly what I saw in the scene. Emil's screwing up big-time, and Lalli's perfectly within his rights to act as he is.
There are Lalli-bashers? I'm glad I don't read the comments.
I do think that cutting off Emil entirely would be going too far on Lalli's part. But the reasons he's gotten to this point are entirely understandable.
All of the characters have suffered bashing at some point. From what I've seen Lalli and Sigrun tend to get the worst of it, and now that Sigrun's out of commission all of that vitriol is falling squarely on Lalli.
Post by: Hrollo on June 12, 2017, 01:15:19 PM
For all that Emil knows, Lalli is only worried about Tuuri. He has no idea about the whole "Sleipnir will chase you to the end of the Earth and go after your family" thing, because the only two people who are aware of that are Reynir and Lalli, neither of which are able to communicate well on that subject with other crewmembers (let alone with Emil with whom they share no language).
Post by: Keeper on June 12, 2017, 01:22:06 PM
I think you're missing an important point: you, as a reader, have way more information than Emil.
For all that Emil knows, Lalli is only worried about Tuuri. He has no idea about the whole "Sleipnir will chase you to the end of the Earth and go after your family" thing, because the only two people who are aware of that are Reynir and Lalli, neither of which are able to communicate well on that subject with other crewmembers (let alone with Emil with whom they share no language).
Emil also doesn't really know much about Lalli's past beyond "We lived in Saimaa for a while and that was kinda dangerous but then we moved to Keuruu where it's safer." Tuuri didn't give him more details than that. Lalli stated in his little speech that life was fine for them until something bad happened, and he fears a repeat now, but as Minna has shown, Emil literally only understood one word of that. Now, Emil definitely should have judged from Lalli's facial expression that "smile" was preceded by a negative. I think the language barrier between them is exacerbating the differences between them.
Post by: thorny on June 12, 2017, 02:00:19 PM
I think you're missing an important point: you, as a reader, have way more information than Emil.
For all that Emil knows, Lalli is only worried about Tuuri.
But that's enough.
What Emil said was roughly the equivalent of 'your sister may be going to die but that's ok because you've got me for a friend now, isn't it? so smile!'
I agree that Emil probably wasn't thinking of it that way, was most likely trying to cheer Lalli up because he's genuinely concerned about Lalli, and is not a terrible person. But that's still a massively clueless and injurious thing to do. Emil really needs to learn better.
Also, if what we're considering isn't only Emil's point of view but also Lalli's, and I agree that we should: from Lalli's point of view, all of that is relevant, whether Emil knows it or not. Lalli's still got to deal with it; and expecting him, on top of all that load, to also take on the load of soothing Emil would be IMO asking too much even of someone with lots of social skills; which Lalli hasn't got.
I really am getting the sense that what this comic is really about is the pitfalls of miscommunication. All of this mess was caused by miscommunication in the first place; and further miscommunication is clearly part of how the situation's progressing. -- come to think of it, all the way back before our team was even chosen there was miscommunication! the grantwriters assumed that the proposers would be among the crew, and chose their funding amount accordingly; but none of the proposers actually had any intention of going, which is how the crew wound up being made up of whoever they could scare up for insufficient money, and therefore full of people who can't understand each other.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 12, 2017, 07:07:45 PM
I think you're missing an important point: you, as a reader, have way more information than Emil.
For all that Emil knows, Lalli is only worried about Tuuri. He has no idea about the whole "Sleipnir will chase you to the end of the Earth and go after your family" thing, because the only two people who are aware of that are Reynir and Lalli, neither of which are able to communicate well on that subject with other crewmembers (let alone with Emil with whom they share no language).
I didn't spell out any of this outright, but you're missing an important point of how I set up my post: when I was talking about how Emil was being insensitive, I only mentioned Tuuri's infection and Lalli's depression, because those are, indeed, the only things Emil knows about - but those things alone are still a pretty big deal. Yeah, Emil's friendship isn't going to fix the situation with the ghosts or whatever happened in Lalli's past, but that's irrelevant because Emil doesn't know about them - the important thing is that neither is Emil's friendship going to fix the impending death of a family member, which he does know about.
By contrast, I talked about Sleipnope and Lalli's PTSD in the context of what we the readers know about Lalli's situation, and as a backdrop for how the readers have been treating him. Because even though Emil might not know about those things, looking at it as a reader, they do make Lalli's reaction understandable - which makes the readers' bashing him for hurting Emil's feelings, knowing full well about all of the above, all the more troubling.
Post by: Hrollo on June 12, 2017, 07:26:41 PM
Emil's just trying to point out that not everything is dark and desparate, and things might get better later on. What else can he do? Tell Lalli everything sucks but that's life and Lalli just needs to toughen up? Pretend there's nothing wrong with Lalli and ignore his depressive manifestations? He can't "listen and learn" here, there's a language barrier. Given the situation, I don't see what else he could do.
Which doesn't mean I think less of Lalli for reacting the way he does. He doesn't need a "good reason" not to be friend with someone — that's a weird thing too; you can only step out of a friendship if the other person is being a jerk?? Well not for me, if I want to walk out, I walk out, and I don't have to give any reason for doing so.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 12, 2017, 07:47:43 PM
Emil's just trying to point out that not everything is dark and desparate, and things might get better later on. What else can he do? Tell Lalli everything sucks but that's life and Lalli just needs to toughen up? Pretend there's nothing wrong with Lalli and ignore his depressive manifestations? He can't "listen and learn" here, there's a language barrier. Given the situation, I don't see what else he could do.
No one here is saying that Emil needs to tell Lalli to toughen up, or that everything sucks and that's life, or to pretend that there's nothing wrong and ignore his depression - the latter is exactly what Tuuri is doing, and it's pretty well-established that that is also the wrong way to handle it. The problem, here, is actually a problem that's common to all of those reactions, including Emil's attempted pep talk: they're trying to make Lalli be happy, when what he really needs right now is to know that it's okay to grieve. Offering quiet companionship, and a shoulder to cry on, was what Emil seemed to be doing earlier, and it seemed to be helping. It might not have been much, but it was something, and it did help.
So, yes, Emil's choices very much do not amount to "try to cheer Lalli up" or "pretend there's nothing wrong" - that's a false dichotomy. And language barrier or no language barrier, he seemed to completely miss what Lalli was saying non-verbally: his body language, his frustrated tone... So yes, he very much could have learned something from Lalli's response, and didn't.
He doesn't need a "good reason" not to be friend with someone — that's a weird thing too; you can only step out of a friendship if the other person is being a jerk?? Well not for me, if I want to walk out, I walk out, and I don't have to give any reason for doing so.
I honestly don't see how this is relevant...
Post by: thorny on June 12, 2017, 10:57:40 PM
Emil's just trying to point out that not everything is dark and desparate, and things might get better later on. What else can he do?
He can say that's he's really sorry Lalli is having to deal with this, and for Lalli to tell him if there's anything Emil can do to help.
I don't know whether he could get that across the language barrier; but the body language that goes with that sort of statement would be a lot more appropriate.
Just plain body language to the effect of "do you want a hug? or would you rather not? but know that I'll hold you if it'll help any" would be another option. And even if Lalli's not good at body language, it should be possible to get that across -- I'm sure they've got enough language to understand "yes? no?" combined with holding out open arms.
As Lazy8 says, it really isn't a choice between inappropriate cheerfulness combined with a demand that Lalli join in, or pretending nothing's wrong and demanding that Lalli do that too.
Post by: Róisín on June 13, 2017, 12:00:13 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on June 13, 2017, 03:11:10 AM
Post by: Caro on June 13, 2017, 03:37:52 AM
I today's page, I can't help notice that the flower got crushed be the very piece of glass that was providing it with a greenhouse effect just moments ago. It almost seems to parallel what's happening with their relationship at the moment.
I thought the same thing. Since Emil used the flower to symbolize hope, it could also mean that their hope will be destroyed. It'll probably be something like them not being able to leave after all.
Post by: Occa on June 13, 2017, 03:58:10 AM
Post by: Caro on June 13, 2017, 04:36:48 AM
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?
To someone really invested in the ship this is just trouble in paradise, a fight to clear the air.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 13, 2017, 07:41:02 AM
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?
Nah. People ship even characters who are sworn enemies in canon. All that matters is that the shipper feels the characters have some chemistry of some sort. And if canon universe closes some doors, we can always make up more universes to explore those possibilities ;)
Post by: Yuuago on June 13, 2017, 08:22:16 AM
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?
A scene like this just provides an opportunity to write fic where they kiss and make up.
In other words, no.
Post by: Abprallen on June 13, 2017, 08:25:22 AM
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?Oh, hell no!
Post by: GeiYin on June 13, 2017, 01:02:04 PM
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
Also i believe in their friendship after all.
And we have this:
Spoiler: show
Post by: Quirkwood on June 14, 2017, 04:57:25 AM
Ok, but the real question is: Will this stop the Lalli and Emil shippers? Can they be stopped?
Nothing will stop us.
Also, I think what is happening is just a classical turn of fictional relationships. What will come out of all the trouble and incomprehension will be a real, deep relationship (romantic or not, they can be "soulmates" either way). I mean, what they had until now was great, but it was something that happened, especially to Lalli, and it seemed like they were both not very sure what the other thought of them. They´ll definitely come out of the next, ehm, adventure (I´m looking at you, upcoming-9-consecutive-pages-of-hell) with a much better established relationship of mutual trust and understanding.
*puts down the Crystal Ball of Hope and covers face in desperation*
That said, I am so sad for them right now. As in, "getting up for breakfast, reading the new page and sulking into the porridge" sad. I´m looking forward to something positive for them all.
Post by: Caro on June 14, 2017, 09:29:26 AM
Nothing will stop us.
Also, I think what is happening is just a classical turn of fictional relationships. What will come out of all the trouble and incomprehension will be a real, deep relationship (romantic or not, they can be "soulmates" either way). I mean, what they had until now was great, but it was something that happened, especially to Lalli, and it seemed like they were both not very sure what the other thought of them. They´ll definitely come out of the next, ehm, adventure (I´m looking at you, upcoming-9-consecutive-pages-of-hell) with a much better established relationship of mutual trust and understanding.
*puts down the Crystal Ball of Hope and covers face in desperation*
That said, I am so sad for them right now. As in, "getting up for breakfast, reading the new page and sulking into the porridge" sad. I´m looking forward to something positive for them all.
I agree. This kind of twist is extremely common, and the relationship almost always ends up stronger than it was before. If this had happened further in the story I would be afraid of the "lovers' fight right before one dies" trope, but I think we can all agree that Minna wouldn't do that. I think they're gonna be mad at each other for a while, end up together in a tough situation, get through it and realize they don't actually hate each other.
Post by: Ragnarok on June 14, 2017, 09:34:28 AM
I agree. This kind of twist is extremely common, and the relationship almost always ends up stronger than it was before. If this had happened further in the story I would be afraid of the "lovers' fight right before one dies" trope, but I think we can all agree that Minna wouldn't do that. I think they're gonna be mad at each other for a while, end up together in a tough situation, get through it and realize they don't actually hate each other.
Agreed. Wasn't Emil's response to Lalli throwing soup at him to learn Finnish so he could understand why Lalli was mad? Seriously, their friendship survived the Soup Incident, it can probably survive Lalli needing to vent and an inconvenient language barrier.
Post by: GeiYin on June 15, 2017, 07:22:23 AM
Oh, I wasn't emotionally prepared for this.
Post by: Solokov on June 15, 2017, 11:40:04 PM
My rationale: nowhere before have we seen any implication about infected hearing things/voices and presumably, even if that were the case, it would likely come during the later stages of the infection well after the rash was evident, and mutations were beginning to occur.
Post by: Aierdome on June 16, 2017, 09:28:06 AM
Post by: Gwenno on June 16, 2017, 09:51:45 AM
My theorizing; Turri really is a mage, and the stress from all this + possible depression is what's gonna bring out those magic abilities.
My rationale: nowhere before have we seen any implication about infected hearing things/voices and presumably, even if that were the case, it would likely come during the later stages of the infection well after the rash was evident, and mutations were beginning to occur.
The fact that we haven't yet heard of the infected hearing voices, doesn't necessarily mean they don't. Our experience, and information regarding people becoming infected so far has been largely limited to the prologue pages, before trolls had been formed (I know that we are aware of people getting infected in more recent times, but I can't remember anywhere where we were updated with more up to date symptoms.). Maybe now that there are more trolls present, infected people can begin to hear them before trollifying themselves?
Post by: viola on June 16, 2017, 09:54:40 AM
Post by: urbicande on June 16, 2017, 10:02:41 AM
Aahhh! Tuuri!! Aaah! O_O
That's literally what my reaction was reading today's page!
Post by: Grade E cat on June 16, 2017, 02:42:50 PM
Otherwise, I wonder what effect Reynir's runes will have on her. If they do anything, it will at least help with keeping Tuuri and Reynir at a safe distance from each other, just saying.
Post by: thorny on June 16, 2017, 03:04:09 PM
I took it for something coming from inside her own head.
The process may not be instantaneous -- maybe, as in at least some types of dementia, it sometimes starts with occasional brief interruptions of longer periods of clarity, with the times of clear-mindedness reducing in length and frequency as the illness progresses.
Post by: Windfighter on June 16, 2017, 04:23:29 PM
Everyone seems to be assuming that Tuuri's hearing a voice coming from somebody/something else.
I took it for something coming from inside her own head.
The voice is speaking Danish though, if it came from Tuuri it would most likely speak Finnish, maaaaybe swedish or icelandic, but not danish :o
Post by: GunmanRex on June 16, 2017, 10:39:11 PM
Let's also hope that Tuuri turning sick doesn't lead to a Dwarf Fortress-esque tantrum spiral that leads to the death of the expedition :)
Post by: Vafhudr on June 16, 2017, 11:29:24 PM
It's something new, because in the prologue, there was no troll around for those in the early stage of infection to hear.
If she was awakening to latent magic abilities, she would have nightmares and dreams first, if the example of Reynir's ancestor is any indication to go by.
Post by: Athena on June 17, 2017, 12:16:49 AM
I was under the impression that effect was meant to imply that she is starting to hear the black speech.
It's something new, because in the prologue, there was no troll around for those in the early stage of infection to hear.
If she was awakening to latent magic abilities, she would have nightmares and dreams first, if the example of Reynir's ancestor is any indication to go by.
I think you're right about the black speech.
But we do have to keep in mind that the awakening for a Finnish mage might be quite different - the dreams would have made sense in Arni's case, because icelandic mages have prophetic dreams, but for Finnish mages it would probably be something else.
/me is still holding onto the desperate hope that she isn't going to die
Post by: Vafhudr on June 17, 2017, 01:46:37 AM
If anything she's just extra incentive for them to find a cure asap.
Post by: Athena on June 17, 2017, 02:33:05 AM
She isn't going to die. I think. Maybe. Probably.
If anything she's just extra incentive for them to find a cure asap.
That does seem like where her situation's going to push the plot for sure.
Post by: GunmanRex on June 17, 2017, 10:13:41 AM
She isn't going to die. I think. Maybe. Probably.
If anything she's just extra incentive for them to find a cure asap.
That does seem like where her situation's going to push the plot for sure.Ditto, the cure+sudden need for said cure points that way.
Though the real question is if they will be forced to use an imperfect cure, possibly doing permanent damage.
Though a struggle of whether to save a better cure so it can be replicated or secretly use it to save Tuuri.
I also wonder if blood transfusion can temporarily give immunity to the rash virus (probably not though, or it would already be a thing).
Post by: Vafhudr on June 17, 2017, 02:06:49 PM
As such they can then come back to Iceland with something much more valuable than books - the possibility that out there, in the waning days of the last campaign, someone found a remedy to the plague, but in the disastrous retreat it was abandoned/destroyed/compromised.
So now they can have a second round of adventure, with better funding, to gather information and perhaps find the promising serum.
At least, this is what I interpret the ghost nurse tidbits to be a lead for.
The only problem with this theory is that I still firmly believe that the disease is of a metaphysical nature as well. So at best they will be able to find something that slows the physical symptoms, but not a complete and total cure. Save her body, but her soul might still get infected. Possibly she will then fall into a coma until Lalli and/or Reynir goes into her mind and save her magically as well.
Post by: GunmanRex on June 17, 2017, 02:18:19 PM
My impression is that they will find a vial, or something to that effect, that let's them cure Tuuri but little more.I'm betting the cure might be in the church lady's church. It seems like said church will at least be important for ridding them of the whole murder-ghosts thing.
As such they can then come back to Iceland with something much more valuable than books - the possibility that out there, in the waning days of the last campaign, someone found a remedy to the plague, but in the disastrous retreat it was abandoned/destroyed/compromised.
So now they can have a second round of adventure, with better funding, to gather information and perhaps find the promising serum.
At least, this is what I interpret the ghost nurse tidbits to be a lead for.
The only problem with this theory is that I still firmly believe that the disease is of a metaphysical nature as well. So at best they will be able to find something that slows the physical symptoms, but not a complete and total cure. Save her body, but her soul might still get infected. Possibly she will then fall into a coma until Lalli and/or Reynir goes into her mind and save her magically as well.
(btw, thank you Grand E Cat for that name. I hope you don't mind if I nick it)
Post by: Grade E cat on June 17, 2017, 04:27:04 PM
I'm betting the cure might be in the church lady's church. It seems like said church will at least be important for ridding them of the whole murder-ghosts thing.
(btw, thank you Grand E Cat for that name. I hope you don't mind if I nick it)
It's actually how we nickname them here (though most seem to write it without the hyphen), to keep them distinct from the normal much less agressive, run-of-the-mill ghosts that exist in the story as well. But thumbs up for the twist on my handle.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 18, 2017, 10:16:25 PM
(http://www.lolcats.com/images/u/08/45/lolcatsdotcomksr87i8le7k6ilaq.jpg)
Post by: urbicande on June 19, 2017, 11:03:19 AM
Everyone seems to be assuming that Tuuri's hearing a voice coming from somebody/something else.
I took it for something coming from inside her own head.
The process may not be instantaneous -- maybe, as in at least some types of dementia, it sometimes starts with occasional brief interruptions of longer periods of clarity, with the times of clear-mindedness reducing in length and frequency as the illness progresses.
I can't read the Black Speech that's in that box but there's an 'Ø' in there. That's not a letter used in Finnish, Icelandic, or Swedish (the languages that Tuuri knows according to the Characters (http://www.sssscomic.com/index.php?id=characters) page. So whatever she's hearing, it's likely Danish.
Also, Tuuri is a Skald. She should be documenting what happens to her so that other people can learn.
Post by: Basse on June 19, 2017, 11:55:23 AM
I can't read the Black Speech that's in that box but there's an 'Ø' in there. That's not a letter used in Finnish, Icelandic, or Swedish (the languages that Tuuri knows according to the Characters (http://www.sssscomic.com/index.php?id=characters) page. So whatever she's hearing, it's likely Danish.From what I can see it's danish, had it been norwegian it should have been "noen" instead of "nogen".
Also, Tuuri is a Skald. She should be documenting what happens to her so that other people can learn.
As for the black speech we can hear: "Help me" on p.736 and what seems to be "Can someone hear...." on p.737
Post by: urbicande on June 19, 2017, 01:00:50 PM
From what I can see it's danish, had it been norwegian it should have been "noen" instead of "nogen".
As for the black speech we can hear: "Help me" on p.736 and what seems to be "Can someone hear...." on p.737
It also makes far more sense for it to be Danish, given they're in Denmark. Thanks for the translation!
Post by: JacobThomsen on June 19, 2017, 01:32:29 PM
From what I can see it's danish, had it been norwegian it should have been "noen" instead of "nogen".I can confirm your translations
As for the black speech we can hear: "Help me" on p.736 and what seems to be "Can someone hear...." on p.737
Post by: thorny on June 19, 2017, 02:04:57 PM
And thanks for the translations!
Post by: Vafhudr on June 19, 2017, 02:31:41 PM
In reference to today's update
(http://www.lolcats.com/images/u/08/45/lolcatsdotcomksr87i8le7k6ilaq.jpg)
An appropriate reaction to a sister wanting to talk to her brother.
Post by: Basse on June 19, 2017, 03:07:52 PM
I can confirm your translations*Hands in the air*
Wohoo! I got right on some Danish!
Post by: urbicande on June 19, 2017, 10:10:29 PM
I may cry.
Post by: GunmanRex on June 19, 2017, 10:16:57 PM
Tuuri fails the Purrito test (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=738).On the bright side, dangers of a feral cat bite aren't that big of a problem comparatively.
I may cry.
Post by: Coffee on June 19, 2017, 10:19:34 PM
NOPE.
NOPE.
NOPE.
Post by: thorny on June 19, 2017, 11:10:37 PM
And I've been dreading that page since the troll bite. Guess Tuuri's not turning into a mage after all, is she? It was a nice thought while it lasted.
Post by: Solokov on June 19, 2017, 11:45:23 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on June 20, 2017, 06:51:24 AM
Post by: Caro on June 21, 2017, 07:50:54 PM
SCREAMS
Post by: Coffee on June 21, 2017, 08:13:02 PM
So...is it safe to say the rash is already messing with her head? Or can trolls, like, psychically communicate with each other? Does that mean she's sort of already a troll??? Or is that Sleipnope? Cause I just had the most horrible idea. What if Sleipnope tries to, like, assimilate her or something. O_O
Post by: GunmanRex on June 21, 2017, 10:13:29 PM
Post by: urbicande on June 21, 2017, 10:48:24 PM
My heart is breaking
Post by: ZanarNaryon on June 22, 2017, 06:58:26 AM
Seriousy, though, this might be the most heartbreaking page thus far. Tuuri's initial infection was hard, and Pus avoiding her even more so, but this is the point in which we clearly see how serious the infection is. The Rubiconem suum, the point of no return
Post by: JoB on June 24, 2017, 05:55:21 AM
The Rubiconem suum, the point of no return"Hic exanthema, hic salta! (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hic_Rhodus,_hic_salta)"
"... how did you find a cliff on cue in Denmark!?"
Post by: Grade E cat on June 26, 2017, 03:09:10 AM
Post by: Róisín on June 26, 2017, 03:40:17 AM
Post by: urbicande on June 26, 2017, 09:46:12 AM
Post by: GunmanRex on June 26, 2017, 10:56:00 AM
Post by: urbicande on June 26, 2017, 03:26:28 PM
At least he seems to be taking it well, maybe better than Onni would.
Until she comes out and says it he can pretend it's not real.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 27, 2017, 09:34:54 PM
- Extra Large Blanket Fort - Check
- Extra Pillows - Check
- Mead Moose - Present and Accounted For
- Extra Mead and Squirrel Cookies - Check
- Emergency Kittens - Check
- Crates of Tissues - Check
- Barrels of freshly sourced Denial - Check
- Life Boats (in case of torpedoed ships) - Check
I believe we are as ready for the mega update as we'll ever be...
Post by: Anna on June 28, 2017, 12:21:55 AM
Also:
- Extra Large Blanket Fort - Check
- Extra Pillows - Check
- Mead Moose - Present and Accounted For
- Extra Mead and Squirrel Cookies - Check
- Emergency Kittens - Check
- Crates of Tissues - Check
- Barrels of freshly sourced Denial - Check
- Life Boats (in case of torpedoed ships) - Check
I believe we are as ready for the mega update as we'll ever be...
• Spare Very Comfy Pajamas (multiple styles and sizes) - Check
• Several Hundred Pairs of Urgent Socks - Check
• Extra Blankets - Check
Post by: Buteo on June 28, 2017, 04:23:07 AM
Also:
...
• Several Hundred Pairs of Urgent Socks - Check
I'll keep knitting, just in case.
On a very fancy pattern, so I have less attention to spare for... speculation....
Post by: Jharad17 on June 28, 2017, 04:34:13 PM
I believe we are as ready for the mega update as we'll ever be...
Updates of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist. ;D
Post by: Basse on June 28, 2017, 06:07:43 PM
Yep, just gonna say that.
Post by: Noodles on June 28, 2017, 06:09:38 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/8rAAE50.png?1)
Post by: Sc0ut on June 28, 2017, 06:10:46 PM
Post by: Ragnarok on June 28, 2017, 06:17:43 PM
WHY.
*flails incoherently*
Nnooooooooo....
Kudos to Minna, but damn if this isn't a punch in the gut.
Post by: Jharad17 on June 28, 2017, 06:19:45 PM
Post by: heiteru on June 28, 2017, 06:35:14 PM
FOR duck ?!?!?!?!
Post by: Abprallen on June 28, 2017, 06:40:33 PM
I can't help but panic about Onni - he's literally lost everything. Me remembering the kind of farewell he had with Tuuri and how he never got to say goodbye was what made me cry. Regardless, I'm kind of glad it happened this way and they didn't magically cure her... but at the same time, HOW COULD YOU MINNA
Post by: Fauna on June 28, 2017, 06:40:54 PM
Pretty sure this means Reynir is going to die. I didn't think he would, given the whole word of mouth "no one will die" thing. But, y'know, I don't now how he's gonna avoid it with his Fylgja going poof. He might not have actually seen its corpse so I guess there's some sort of cliffhanger-y hope for the guy, but I don't know whatever else it could mean. In the Sagas, once your Fylgja dies, you're doomed and nothing can save you, you're halfway in the other world already.
Post by: Athena on June 28, 2017, 06:42:08 PM
;_;
*finishes cries*
Very artfully done, Minna, when I saw that swan I knew it, I just knew it was going to carry her soul to tuonela, and then ONNI, oh gods, poor Onni.... D:
Man. Thats.... Wow.
Post by: JacobThomsen on June 28, 2017, 06:52:32 PM
I'm usually able to handle the death of a favorite character in the stories I follow, keyword here is usually
*goes back to crying*
Post by: Fauna on June 28, 2017, 06:58:22 PM
Agh, damnit Tuuri. I really, really wanted to see the argument she would've almost certainly had with Onni. At least she went on her own terms and not like.. well. You know.
Post by: GeiYin on June 28, 2017, 06:58:27 PM
Even Lalli is crying (shouting)
That's so emotional
Post by: Noodles on June 28, 2017, 07:01:55 PM
Post by: Fauna on June 28, 2017, 07:14:50 PM
Did Reynir's fylgja poof out? I can't find that, only Onni's.The vision with the wheelbarrow tracks. Doggy takes a turn from the path, asks some invisible entity if it did good, and dissolves into little sparkles.
Post by: Lazy8 on June 28, 2017, 07:25:35 PM
Pretty sure this means Reynir is going to die. I didn't think he would, given the whole word of mouth "no one will die" thing. But, y'know, I don't now how he's gonna avoid it with his Fylgja going poof. He might not have actually seen its corpse so I guess there's some sort of cliffhanger-y hope for the guy, but I don't know whatever else it could mean. In the Sagas, once your Fylgja dies, you're doomed and nothing can save you, you're halfway in the other world already.
I don't think that was meant to be a Fylgja death so much as a dramatic exit. I mean, we saw what happened with Reynir's body seemly dissolving when he started to wake up. So I wouldn't read too much into the disappearance of the Fylgja - the vision itself, yes, but not how the presenter ended it.
Post by: Fauna on June 28, 2017, 07:31:35 PM
Post by: Róisín on June 28, 2017, 07:32:19 PM
Post by: Fauna on June 28, 2017, 07:35:04 PM
No, I think the fylgja just went back to wherever it goes when not talking to Reynir. At least one of the innocents needs to survive.Fylgjas don't do that in the myth. They're always running ahead of their person, like a needle pulling a thread in a sort of Norse fatalism. They don't go anywhere until they die, they simply move on to the physical place where their human will go soon. I guess Minna could take some mythological liberties but I've never seen her do that so far in this comic. She's paid meticulous attention to mythological detail.
Post by: Noodles on June 28, 2017, 07:36:56 PM
Fylgjas don't do that in the myth. They're always running ahead of their person, like a needle pulling a thread in a sort of Norse fatalism. They don't go anywhere until they die, they simply move on to the physical place where their human will go soon. I guess Minna could take some mythological liberties but I've never seen her do that so far in this comic. She's paid meticulous attention to mythological detail.It seems like it's done that before? I can't cite a source off the top of my head, but I feel like it usually vanishes like that as he wakes up.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 28, 2017, 07:40:48 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 28, 2017, 07:51:08 PM
Post by: Fauna on June 28, 2017, 07:55:20 PM
Reynir has been separated from his dog multiple times in the dream world - actually they're more often apart than together (thinking about the incident when he invaded Lalli's space, for instance). I don't think it means much - his fylgja is probably with him all the time, just doesn't manifest unless it needs to communicate something. Lalli too has had his luonto all the time except when he was in a coma, but we don't see a lynx hanging out with him constantly.Luonto's and Fylgjas aren't the same. The way I understand the Luonto is it's basically part of ones self, an aspect of you sort to speak, we see Lalli literally absorbing his lynx in the comic and therefore we don't see it in his dreamworld - it's his nature. The Fylgja is a semi-separate entity. Fylgjas would naturally be apart from their masters (since they're running ahead of them) unless popping up in a dream to communicate. Even then, though, such messages would be very divinatory in nature and Minna has always shown Reynir following the dog. In fact, she has payed meticulous attention to the mythology - if this was any other author I wouldn't think much about it, but Minna knows the stuff she's writing about.
Eh, I dunno. I think it would be too much if both the "innocents" died, too, but I'm expecting *at least* a near death experience where he pass away then comes back. Or something like it. This is too suspicious compared to the sagas.
Post by: ZanarNaryon on June 28, 2017, 08:53:55 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on June 28, 2017, 09:41:45 PM
I genuinely thought they would make it out. I really wanted everyone to get out of this alive.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on June 28, 2017, 10:01:38 PM
Can you trade a soul for a soul in finnish paganism? Like a life for someone dead.
I know shes gone, but I'm curious if that works.
Post by: thorny on June 28, 2017, 10:43:36 PM
I don't know why I wasn't expecting that. Minna killed off her entire original cast, after all, between page 55 and page 56 (though not onstage, and we're allowed to imagine them dying peacefully from old age if we want; though I don't suppose all of them did.)
But nevertheless, while I was sure from the page of the troll bite that she was infected, I expected something else to happen -- possibly, as lots of others have suggested, a combination of the serum and the preacher. And I thought the multipage update was going to be her starting to trollify, before they managed to get it stopped. This is better storytelling; but it's hard.
And I am now really worried about that one line of footprints with the wheelbarrow in Reynir's vision.
But brave Tuuri!
Post by: midwestmutt on June 28, 2017, 11:02:31 PM
OK, I was not expecting that.I didn't take the single set of tracks seriously before but now...
I don't know why I wasn't expecting that. Minna killed off her entire original cast, after all, between page 55 and page 56 (though not onstage, and we're allowed to imagine them dying peacefully from old age if we want; though I don't suppose all of them did.)
But nevertheless, while I was sure from the page of the troll bite that she was infected, I expected something else to happen -- possibly, as lots of others have suggested, a combination of the serum and the preacher. And I thought the multipage update was going to be her starting to trollify, before they managed to get it stopped. This is better storytelling; but it's hard.
And I am now really worried about that one line of footprints with the wheelbarrow in Reynir's vision.
But brave Tuuri!
Post by: Vafhudr on June 28, 2017, 11:14:19 PM
QUESTION FOR AN IGNORAMUS.
Can you trade a soul for a soul in finnish paganism? Like a life for someone dead.
I know shes gone, but I'm curious if that works.
Trade, no.
But there is precedent for revival. Though I doubt it is in the card at this point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuonela (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuonela)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmink%C3%A4inen%27s_Mother (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmink%C3%A4inen%27s_Mother)
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on June 28, 2017, 11:29:34 PM
O_O O_O O_O O_O O_O O_O
Post by: Róisín on June 28, 2017, 11:39:11 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 29, 2017, 12:07:24 AM
Also in other news. Do you know how pissed off onni is gonna be at taru and or torbjorn when he wakes up.
O_O O_O O_O O_O O_O O_O
I was just thinking about that. The entire support crew better hope they don't get 'struck by lightning indoors'.
This is going to be just awful for the two surviving Hotaikenens. Onni will blame himself four times over (for not going when asked, for letting Tuuri go, for not intervening sooner in the battle and for not being able to do anything after it), Lalli will blame himself for not protecting Tuuri during the battle and not realising what she was thinking when she just spoke to him, and they'll likely blame each other for exactly the same reasons.
Post by: Antillanka on June 29, 2017, 01:55:46 AM
Post by: Shine on June 29, 2017, 02:48:11 AM
Um, the sea is pretty?
Er...
Anyone want come to Egypt with me? I hear De Nile is a lovely river.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 29, 2017, 04:20:22 AM
Anyone want come to Egypt with me? I hear De Nile is a lovely river.
Way ahead of you buddy. I already requested fic where this doesn't happen and Tuuri goes on to have many other adventures on tumblr. *sets up a hut on the lovely bank of De Nile and starts making cocktails for whoever wants to join*
It's 2am, I've been crying for 6 hours, and I want to hug a puppy and step out of time. And I missed Tuuri saying something like "I love you, brother" before leaving. And not even leaving a goodbye note for Lalli.
*hugs* We don't know if she left any notes yet, I guess - though the way things went down, it looks unlikely.
Do you think receiving art would make you feel a little bit better? I'm taking small requests to help people get over this. Let me know if you want something (not just Antillanka, anyone reading).
I was just thinking about that. The entire support crew better hope they don't get 'struck by lightning indoors'.
This is going to be just awful for the two surviving Hotaikenens. Onni will blame himself four times over (for not going when asked, for letting Tuuri go, for not intervening sooner in the battle and for not being able to do anything after it), Lalli will blame himself for not protecting Tuuri during the battle and not realising what she was thinking when she just spoke to him, and they'll likely blame each other for exactly the same reasons.
Yes. Onni will tear *everyone alive* a new one, including the mages in their sleep. It's gonna be the only glorious (if misguided) thing that comes out of this.
I'm curious how Emil will react. It's gonna hit him hard because he was in denial (like me), but he might escape sinking into a depression purely to support Lalli. For that matter, I'm even more curious how Lalli will react. It seems he was expecting something bad, but judging by his reaction, it wasn't THIS. More mistakes to beat himself up for? :/
Anyway, between two depressed team members (soon at least three because I can't imagine Emil holding it together well), Sigrun's injury and the loss of the tank (and their link to the outside world with it, now that Onni's in a coma), I expect a genre shift towards more typical survival horror, at least for a while. Some time ago I was looking forward to such a change in the comic. I don't mind getting it, but it sucks that Tuuri had to be the one sacrificed for it. I wouldn't have been too happy with any of them dying, but it seems especially cruel that it was her, who only got to live her dream for a bit, and was a complex and fun character to have around.
Post by: wavewright62 on June 29, 2017, 04:22:51 AM
I'm a little unsettled about condoning her suicide, though, it must be said. Yes, she is terminally ill and wanted to leave on her own terms, I get that. But her clear-eyed and rational expression does not jibe with the spontaneous act of this suicide without preparation, it somehow bothers me. I'll think on it some more.
I also worry about members of our fandom who have been struggling with their own illnesses.
Post by: SectoBoss on June 29, 2017, 05:34:58 AM
I don't know if that actually makes much sense. After all, I didn't get much sleep last night. Can't imagine why... ::)
Post by: Fimbulvarg on June 29, 2017, 06:53:42 AM
I'm calling it now. This comic is going to be a deathfest with Reynir being the third last to die.
Maybe, but it would sort of ruin the point of the prologue introducing the central family names if you kill off the only Madsen, Eide and Arnason in the main cast. Unfortunately for Tuuri there were Hotakainens to spare.
I think black would be a fitting colour for the chapter survivor ribbon given the present mood of the community.
Post by: ZanarNaryon on June 29, 2017, 06:54:28 AM
QUESTION FOR AN IGNORAMUS.
Can you trade a soul for a soul in finnish paganism? Like a life for someone dead.
I know shes gone, but I'm curious if that works.
No, but the hero Väinämöinen traveled to Tuonela, the realm of the dead.
Also in other news. Do you know how pissed off onni is gonna be at taru and or torbjorn when he wakes up.
O_O O_O O_O O_O O_O O_O
Probably even worse for Reynir. He outright stated that "Everyone is fine". Even though it was on Tuuri's request, Onni is still gonna be pissed.
Post by: Quirkwood on June 29, 2017, 07:17:58 AM
I think what's hitting me the hardest over the last few pages is that for me, and maybe many of us, Tuuri was the one who deep down we all identified with. Sure, we might wish we were as badass as Sigrun or as worldly-wise as Mikkel. But when it came to it, it was Tuuri who was closest to us and it was through her eyes we saw the world of SSSS. When she was peering from the train window hoping to catch a glimpse of her first troll, we were right there over her shoulder, eager to see what the Rash done. When she stood in awe of the ruins of the old world, so did we, although we were more impressed by Minna's artistic skills. Her inexperience, curiosity, and yes, ill-founded optimism were ours too. And unlike Reynir, the comic's other 'green' character, who nearly had a heart attack when he learned where he'd pitched up, she couldn't wait for the next adventure, for the next discovery. Just like us, eagerly hitting F5 for that next updated page. So it feels not just like we've lost a beloved character - for me, at least, it almost feels like I've lost a piece of myself.
I don't know if that actually makes much sense. After all, I didn't get much sleep last night. Can't imagine why... ::)
Well said. I see what you mean, I see how many readers could identify with Tuuri, even though I didn´t (the Lalliness is strong in me). Representing the curious reader´s perspective was probably her role in the story, and now the story is changing direction. I´d add that she was the only ray of hope left in the expedition, she kept wanting to enjoy the experience she had wished for her whole life. Not even something as trivial as a troll-wound could stop her, she literally refused to let it get her down (when she told Lalli to stop acting sad, for example, I think she didn´t want to let their adventure turn into something purely unpleasant). Now they´ll have to find their light somewhere else, and it´s going to be a hard and long process.
I´ve often been annoyed at her for going out in the world even while being literally, mortally allergic to it and for dragging Lalli along for company, but I still liked her, in the end. Now I feel guilty for disagreeing with her! What the heck is this comic doing to me?! Send help.
Post by: viola on June 29, 2017, 08:44:50 AM
WAIT. HOW IS LALLI GOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE OTHERS NOW??????
Post by: thorny on June 29, 2017, 09:07:58 AM
I'm a little unsettled about condoning her suicide, though, it must be said. Yes, she is terminally ill and wanted to leave on her own terms, I get that. But her clear-eyed and rational expression does not jibe with the spontaneous act of this suicide without preparation, it somehow bothers me.
She's about to be a serious danger to everybody else in the group. She's not only protecting herself from becoming permanently trapped as a troll; she's protecting them from her trollself. It's a genuinely heroic action.
I remembered after posting last night that I'd been thinking earlier that, without the cattank, they'd have no way of dealing with a trollifying Tuuri. If the tank had still been functional, it might have been possible to lock her up in one part of it, or to tie her up, and in either case to haul her along without massively endangering the rest of them. But if they're walking? How would they possibly manage? The only thing I could think of was if they could keep her unconscious, either by dosing her with the serum (which I think produced a coma) or possibly if Mikkel's got medications that could accomplish that -- but whatever he's got must be a limited supply, and might be needed for some other emergency. And they don't actually have the serum, do they? They've only got information about it.
And as far as doing it suddenly: I don't suppose she knew exactly when she'd become dangerous. If she didn't tell the others, she'd be risking them all. If she did tell the others -- then what? Wouldn't one of them have had to kill her? Would Lalli have tried to keep her alive? Maybe she was envisioning Mikkel coming at her with a syringe full of whatever killed the mama cat and Lalli launching himself at Mikkel trying to stop it.
I do think she might have left Lalli a letter -- maybe tucked into her jacket. But again, I sometimes think the whole comic is about miscommunication. To have excellent communications suddenly appear at this point seems not entirely plausible.
ETA: Also, she had a pretty specific sign from her gods -- who, in that world, are unquestionably real. She says "I really thought [ . . . ] someone over there would be looking out for me." And she gets an answer: there's the swan. Someone over there is indeed looking out for her -- but that doesn't mean she's not going to die. It means they're ready and waiting to give her soul a ride to the next world. -- again, in the world of SSSS, that is real beyond question. Signs in this world that we're living in can't be trusted.
Post by: Solokov on June 29, 2017, 09:30:34 AM
Post by: urbicande on June 29, 2017, 09:32:18 AM
If I say it enough maybe I'll believe it and stop.
Post by: Ragnarok on June 29, 2017, 09:40:27 AM
WrittenEmber and I wrote a little.
http://archiveofourown.org/works/11348076 (http://archiveofourown.org/works/11348076)
Post by: Haspen on June 29, 2017, 10:04:24 AM
Post by: GunmanRex on June 29, 2017, 10:50:55 AM
Post by: Sunflower on June 29, 2017, 01:11:20 PM
I think what's hitting me the hardest over the last few pages is that for me, and maybe many of us, Tuuri was the one who deep down we all identified with. Sure, we might wish we were as badass as Sigrun or as worldly-wise as Mikkel. But when it came to it, it was Tuuri who was closest to us and it was through her eyes we saw the world of SSSS. When she was peering from the train window hoping to catch a glimpse of her first troll, we were right there over her shoulder, eager to see what the Rash done. When she stood in awe of the ruins of the old world, so did we, although we were more impressed by Minna's artistic skills. Her inexperience, curiosity, and yes, ill-founded optimism were ours too. And unlike Reynir, the comic's other 'green' character, who nearly had a heart attack when he learned where he'd pitched up, she couldn't wait for the next adventure, for the next discovery. Just like us, eagerly hitting F5 for that next updated page. So it feels not just like we've lost a beloved character - for me, at least, it almost feels like I've lost a piece of myself.
I don't know if that actually makes much sense. After all, I didn't get much sleep last night. Can't imagine why... ::)
It makes perfect sense, Vafhudr. I also identified strongly with Tuuri as the POV character (and as someone who had a sheltered upbringing and naively wanted to go out and see the world).
It's a wonderful explanation and a moving tribute to a character that, for all her flaws, many of us loved.
Post by: ZanarNaryon on June 29, 2017, 01:11:41 PM
Oh wow. I should not have read that at work because now I just want to sit here and cry but I'm at work at my desk and I can't just start bawling. Right? Agh. I don't know if I can do this. Wow. I don't think I've ever been hit so hard by a character death in my life.
WAIT. HOW IS LALLI GOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE OTHERS NOW??????
Would be complicated, but Reynir can talk to him in their dreams
Post by: GeiYin on June 29, 2017, 01:25:56 PM
But. Reynir can talk only with Mikkel
And Mikkel's scandinavian can be understood normaly only by Sigrun
So. If Lalli would want to say something to Emil, those words should at first come though Reynir - then Mikkel - then Sigrun - and only then they'll reach Emil
Well...
Post by: Grade E cat on June 29, 2017, 01:38:31 PM
Post by: PickleChip on June 29, 2017, 02:48:01 PM
*screams into the void*
Post by: Miriam on June 29, 2017, 03:57:15 PM
It's funny when it comes to 'Lalli at least can talk with Reynir in dreams'
But. Reynir can talk only with Mikkel
And Mikkel's scandinavian can be understood normaly only by Sigrun
So. If Lalli would want to say something to Emil, those words should at first come though Reynir - then Mikkel - then Sigrun - and only then they'll reach Emil
Well...
You're right. Lalli would speak in Finnish to Reynir in the dreamworld, who would understand it as Icelandic, pass it on to Mikkel who tells it so Sigrun in Danish and Sigrun says it to Emil in Norwegian, hoping Emil's Swedish is close enough for him to completely understand.
This sounds like a complicated version of, how is that game called, Chinese telephone?
Post by: Basse on June 29, 2017, 04:21:48 PM
It wasn't impossible for him to begin with, although he did struggle with it.
Post by: wavewright62 on June 29, 2017, 06:22:37 PM
*pat pat*
*screams into the void*
Fortunately, it's not quite a void, for here we all are.
I will not cry at work. I will not cry at work. I will not cry at work. I will not cry at work. I will not cry at work.
Oh wow. I should not have read that at work because now I just want to sit here and cry but I'm at work at my desk and I can't just start bawling. Right? Agh. I don't know if I can do this. Wow. I don't think I've ever been hit so hard by a character death in my life.Same. Add: I will still get out the payroll, invoices, meeting catering, and submission updates I have on today without being a mess. I did do it, too (in between checking to the Disqus comments).
She's about to be a serious danger to everybody else in the group. She's not only protecting herself from becoming permanently trapped as a troll; she's protecting them from her trollself. It's a genuinely heroic action.
I remembered after posting last night that I'd been thinking earlier that, without the cattank, they'd have no way of dealing with a trollifying Tuuri. If the tank had still been functional, it might have been possible to lock her up in one part of it, or to tie her up, and in either case to haul her along without massively endangering the rest of them. But if they're walking? How would they possibly manage? The only thing I could think of was if they could keep her unconscious, either by dosing her with the serum (which I think produced a coma) or possibly if Mikkel's got medications that could accomplish that -- but whatever he's got must be a limited supply, and might be needed for some other emergency. And they don't actually have the serum, do they? They've only got information about it.
And as far as doing it suddenly: I don't suppose she knew exactly when she'd become dangerous. If she didn't tell the others, she'd be risking them all. If she did tell the others -- then what? Wouldn't one of them have had to kill her? Would Lalli have tried to keep her alive? Maybe she was envisioning Mikkel coming at her with a syringe full of whatever killed the mama cat and Lalli launching himself at Mikkel trying to stop it.
I do think she might have left Lalli a letter -- maybe tucked into her jacket. But again, I sometimes think the whole comic is about miscommunication. To have excellent communications suddenly appear at this point seems not entirely plausible.
ETA: Also, she had a pretty specific sign from her gods -- who, in that world, are unquestionably real. She says "I really thought [ . . . ] someone over there would be looking out for me." And she gets an answer: there's the swan. Someone over there is indeed looking out for her -- but that doesn't mean she's not going to die. It means they're ready and waiting to give her soul a ride to the next world. -- again, in the world of SSSS, that is real beyond question. Signs in this world that we're living in can't be trusted.
She would not have left any note. She didn't even sit down. No time elapsed between the sequence of checking out her neck, getting repulsed by the cat, fleeing Reynir, having a cryptic conversation with Lalli, and running off to the sea. At that point on the foreshore, she revealed the depth of her denial. I doubt she would have written a note in the time since her wounding to be found later, while still under the pall of that denial. She probably, however, has given *some* thought to what she would do if she manifested, so maybe her action wasn't quite as spontaneous as all that.
But yes, that point about the Swan looking out for her - I'm tearing up again, that's so lovely and true.
Also, Sectoboss' point about our identification with Tuuri - also so very true and well-stated. }hugs{
Post by: thorny on June 29, 2017, 07:32:33 PM
I hate to make everybody feel even worse -- but is Onni still alive? I really didn't like the way his bird was falling.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 29, 2017, 07:41:43 PM
I think Onni is fine (well, *not fine*, but you know what I mean). He chased after the Swan, but flew into some kind of barrier he was unable to cross and was knocked back.
Post by: Solokov on June 29, 2017, 09:08:07 PM
Spoiler: graphically violent anteater • show
Post by: Vafhudr on June 29, 2017, 11:41:58 PM
Vafhudr, a number of folklores contain such things, including the Egyptian, Celtic, Australian Aboriginal and Old Persian, but in all of them, it is a rare thing that only happens a few times in each mythos. Far more frequent is the transformation of the dead or dying person into something else which survives, be it a star, an island or some artifact or creature which can help their companions. I'm half expecting a little snowy owl to start turning up in Lalli's and Onni's dreams.
I think you are right. At least, Minna's comments seem to indicate that Tuuri's presence in the story is far from over and she will have some sort of role in the upcoming arc, possibly one involving the spirit world in one way or another.
Post by: Kelpie on June 30, 2017, 12:27:38 AM
No, but the hero Väinämöinen traveled to Tuonela, the realm of the dead.He basically cursed any living person who would try to go to Tuonela once he returned though, correct? And he only went to learn spells, not drag anyone back from death Orpheus style. So I'm guessing that Roisin is correct and Tuuri's return in the comic will be a more symbolic presence than anything.
Post by: Grade E cat on June 30, 2017, 02:42:56 AM
Post by: Jharad17 on June 30, 2017, 03:39:00 AM
Now that I'm over that strange coincidence of mine, I had a really, really horrible thought. What if between the communication barrier and his current mood, Lalli can't even convey what happened correctly, and nobody connects the dots until they return to camp and notice Tuuri's discarded mask?
Even worse, what if Lalli tries to throw himself into the sea to follow his cousin?
Post by: Sc0ut on June 30, 2017, 03:50:23 AM
Now that I'm over that strange coincidence of mine, I had a really, really horrible thought. What if between the communication barrier and his current mood, Lalli can't even convey what happened correctly, and nobody connects the dots until they return to camp and notice Tuuri's discarded mask?
They would at least notice Tuuri is gone (Tuuri who has no business being outdoors unsupervised, let alone wander at a big distance from the camp alone) and know something Bad has happened. Lalli probably doesn't know enough Swedish to explain it anyway, but they will find the mask and that will clarify her intentions, given the situation.
Even worse, what if Lalli tries to throw himself into the sea to follow his cousin?
Slim chance that will happen, because 1. it wouldn't make sense to have a chapter break right before it, essentially breaking a very intense scene and 2. That would be out of character for Lalli, the way I read him. He never had a very strong bond with Tuuri and he's not prone to big dramatic gestures. Also, his death would put the rest of the team at a huge risk, especially without the tank. They would lose their scout and only trained mage. Even if Lalli has an intense death wish now (which I don't necessarily believe), I don't think he's that cynical to deliberately drag everyone else with him, not to mention *really* leave Onni alone.
If anything, I think it's Onni we should be worried about right now.
Post by: urbicande on June 30, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
I think you are right. At least, Minna's comments seem to indicate that Tuuri's presence in the story is far from over and she will have some sort of role in the upcoming arc, possibly one involving the spirit world in one way or another.
I was going to say that it seemed unlikely until I looked at the Finnish afterlife on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_paganism#Soul.2C_death.2C_and_the_afterlife).
And Tuuri did say she'd see Onni again.
Post by: thorny on June 30, 2017, 08:43:17 AM
They would at least notice Tuuri is gone (Tuuri who has no business being outdoors unsupervised, let alone wander at a big distance from the camp alone) and know something Bad has happened.
I was going to give all the reasons they'd figure out what happened, when I remembered my theory about miscommunication being the underlying premise of the comic.
They're certainly going to know Tuuri's gone. Will they follow Lalli, who just ran past them screaming for help in a language none of them understand? Will they notice the extra set of prints that he's following, after they all run over the top of them, and realize that Tuuri went into the water on her own feet, rather than having been dragged in by something? If they get that far, I think they'd have to figure out that she must have become symptomatic, even without the extra clue of the conversation she had with Lalli.
But I find myself with the unpleasant thought that they might shrug and turn back to dinner, thinking 'who knows why that scout does what he does?', and not figure out that Tuuri's missing until later; at which point I suppose they might think she was dragged off by a troll that had made it close to the tank, especially if the prints are gone by then.
-- I agree that Lalli will stick it out. He didn't want to come in the first place, and has expected disaster for a long time now, but he's kept doggedly (even though he's a cat) doing the job he's asked to do. I expect he'll keep on doing it.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 30, 2017, 08:56:08 AM
Will they follow Lalli, who just ran past them screaming for help in a language none of them understand?
Emil and Lalli have been studying each other's language. Lalli shouted "help", which is certainly among the first things they learned. While the team often ignores important things, I really doubt such obvious panic from a normally level-headed character (and one who can sense the spirits and trolls) will be ignored.
Post by: Vafhudr on June 30, 2017, 10:14:38 AM
I was going to say that it seemed unlikely until I looked at the Finnish afterlife on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_paganism#Soul.2C_death.2C_and_the_afterlife).
And Tuuri did say she'd see Onni again.
I mean, this is Minna's exact line from the last page of the update's blog remarks:
"If it's any consolation, I'm sure we'll see Tuuri again one day in the future, one way or another."
and possibly
"So much of the upcoming storylines would have to be thrown out completely if I chickened out and kept everyone alive and happy after all."
Post by: OrigamiOwl on June 30, 2017, 10:20:02 AM
I mean, this is Minna's exact line from the last page of the update's blog remarks:I was thinking that maybe she meant that we would see Tuuri in the sci-fi game Minna is making
"If it's any consolation, I'm sure we'll see Tuuri again one day in the future, one way or another."
Post by: Miriam on June 30, 2017, 11:34:53 AM
I was thinking that maybe she meant that we would see Tuuri in the sci-fi game Minna is making
Yes, at the first instance I thought so too, that Minna was just referring to City of Hunger.
However, we haven't seen Tuuri so far in that game. Maybe she's just doomed...
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on June 30, 2017, 04:34:05 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on June 30, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
Is it inappropriate to post this?
Yes :D Some might think it's insensitive with regards to the comic, but my problem is that it's an ear worm. It's kinda nice and I also really want that ear bleach at the same time. Interesting music.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on June 30, 2017, 05:02:00 PM
Yes :D Some might think it's insensitive with regards to the comic, but my problem is that it's an ear worm. It's kinda nice and I also really want that ear bleach at the same time. Interesting music.
It's from the end of the Sponge Bob Movie.
The old one. You know THE GOOD ONE.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 30, 2017, 05:05:04 PM
Post by: Jharad17 on June 30, 2017, 05:28:29 PM
I was thinking that maybe she meant that we would see Tuuri in the sci-fi game Minna is making
I was thinking we'll see her in additional flashbacks. Maybe, like if we finally find out what happened to send the Hotakainens to Keuruu, or what Ensi's one mistake was.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 30, 2017, 05:56:13 PM
I was thinking we'll see her in additional flashbacks. Maybe, like if we finally find out what happened to send the Hotakainens to Keuruu, or what Ensi's one mistake was.
Even better/additionally, we might see the afterlife for Finnish souls :D That's gotta be interesting.
Post by: midwestmutt on June 30, 2017, 06:01:28 PM
Even better/additionally, we might see the afterlife for Finnish souls :D That's gotta be interesting.From what we saw in A Red Tails dream it looks kinda grim, which probably suits the Finns.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on June 30, 2017, 06:05:36 PM
Even better/additionally, we might see the afterlife for Finnish souls :D That's gotta be interesting.It's a bunch of people sleeping beneath the surface of a giant lake covered with ice, so not really exciting.
Post by: ZanarNaryon on June 30, 2017, 08:09:25 PM
Yes, at the first instance I thought so too, that Minna was just referring to City of Hunger.
However, we haven't seen Tuuri so far in that game. Maybe she's just doomed...
I imagine her death might happen in the beginning of the game, maybe a driving element to the story, possibly something throwing Lalli into the plot, or even gives him his typical stoic personality. Though this is really something more to discuss in the City of Hunger speculation thread
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 30, 2017, 09:59:44 PM
Is it inappropriate to post this?
Well, it's probably more appropriate than the Pixies..
/>
Although if we didn't know about Tuuri being guided to Tuonella by the Swan, imagining her kissing mermaids and riding the El Nino could be a nice alternative.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 01, 2017, 12:05:05 PM
Post by: Antillanka on July 01, 2017, 03:28:38 PM
I had a little trouble figuring out the right trope for the fact Lalli felt Tuuri die, and something interesting came out of it. At some point, I was self-debating on chaging "Psychic Link" to "Synchronization" which is basically the subtype where body sensations are shared. During that, I thought of the moment Tuuri got bitten. Let's be honest, that must have hurt, and I've just looked back at what is now the second saddest set of pages to see any signs of Lalli feeling it. And the only potential one I could see was the mere fact he suddenly realizes he should check inside the tank while his attention is on something else. It's giving me a not-very-happy second reading on the end of Chapter 13.
Maybe... is synchonization limited to body sensations or includes emotions?
Post by: Grade E cat on July 01, 2017, 05:04:53 PM
Post by: Róisín on July 01, 2017, 06:47:35 PM
Post by: ZanarNaryon on July 01, 2017, 08:25:43 PM
Well, something obviously did happen to catch his attention when she got bitten, because he left the fight, opened the tank, which would be an extremely counter-intuitive thing to do in the middle of a battle, and dashed in with rifle ready. That sort of subliminal awareness that something is happening to those close to you turns up in the lore of cultures all over the world, and quite often in real life.
A troll does make a fair amount of noise, and so does two non-immune people trapped with a troll. He might just have heard them
Post by: urbicande on July 01, 2017, 08:27:10 PM
A troll does make a fair amount of noise, and so does two non-immune people trapped with a troll. He might just have heard them
In the middle of a battle? Not likely.
Post by: Basse on July 01, 2017, 08:46:32 PM
A troll does make a fair amount of noise, and so does two non-immune people trapped with a troll. He might just have heard themFrom what can be hinted on page 654. (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=654) with the sudden glowing eyes, Lalli is sensing it with his magic.
Post by: Elleth on July 01, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
Post by: thorny on July 02, 2017, 11:51:38 AM
If he was just sensing that the troll was there, however, why didn't he sense it before it broke through the floor*? It was just as close to him.
*that is, a narrative reason is pretty clear: that whole chunk of plot disappears if Lalli shoots the troll before it breaks the tank and bites Tuuri. But an in-world reason would have to be different. Confusion of the battle keeping his mind on something else? He wasn't actually that close before, but had just moved into that position?
Post by: Grade E cat on July 02, 2017, 12:04:33 PM
Post by: Mayabird on July 02, 2017, 06:35:34 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on July 02, 2017, 06:53:14 PM
I thought Tuuri had been infected by the bullet that Lalli shot to kill the troll - it passed through the troll and hit Tuuri in the shoulder, thus passing the infected material into her, so Lalli has been depressed because he believes (and now knows) that he effectively killed his cousin.
Minna's confirmed that it was a bite.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on July 02, 2017, 07:33:06 PM
I thought Tuuri had been infected by the bullet that Lalli shot to kill the troll - it passed through the troll and hit Tuuri in the shoulder, thus passing the infected material into her, so Lalli has been depressed because he believes (and now knows) that he effectively killed his cousin.
If it was a bullet she would have died a long time ago. Full sized cartridge at the shoulder would have been a wound that is quite...horrifying to say the least.
Post by: Piney on July 02, 2017, 08:25:15 PM
(too soon? I'm only half- joking :P )
Post by: wavewright62 on July 03, 2017, 12:23:39 AM
I firmly believe that if someone had told Onni about the attack, the power of his worrying alone could have kept Tuuri alive.
(too soon? I'm only half- joking :P )
Nah, all good, not too soon.
The Estonians have a saying, though, "Oleks on üks sittamees, ja Pidanud on ta vend." "Would Have is a man of shit, and Should Have is his brother."
(I ran that one through Google Translate, though, and it wasn't quite right. 100 years since the Old Country may have distorted the phrase a bit?)
Post by: urbicande on July 03, 2017, 09:17:51 AM
"...few living souls have visited, and fewer departed souls have returned from..."
Anyone want to lay odds that Pastor Lady and Reynir will be among the ones helping Onni visit?
Post by: JoB on July 03, 2017, 05:23:40 PM
Anyone want to lay odds that Pastor Lady and Reynir will be among the ones helping Onni visit?Wrong pantheon for pastor A to tango with, though ...
Post by: urbicande on July 03, 2017, 10:26:22 PM
Wrong pantheon for pastor A to tango with, though ...
Yes, I realize, but she's been there for a long time. And if Onni could (in theory) help her then she could (in theory) help Onni.
Post by: Mayabird on July 04, 2017, 09:55:30 PM
Minna's confirmed that it was a bite.
Thanks. I must've missed that note somewhere.
Post by: Unlos on July 05, 2017, 05:18:09 AM
Post by: Róisín on July 05, 2017, 05:28:00 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on July 05, 2017, 06:38:53 AM
I think Lalli may well blame himself anyway, poor lad.
Almost guaranteed, I'd say. Though he might also remember that it was Tuuri who literally dragged him on the expedition anyway.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 05, 2017, 07:46:37 AM
Lalli --> everything mentioned above
Sigrun --> neglected her wound, missed the troll
Mikkel --> It did happen in the middle of the battle, but he could blame himself for not making sure he had gotten the troll Sigrun was talking about
Reynir --> Sigrun got wounded protecting him, he was in the room when it happened, he probably could have done something if he was better at magic and he basically lied to Onni after the fact
Yep, the guilt trip potential is strong for the following chapter.
Post by: urbicande on July 05, 2017, 07:58:03 AM
Post by: Unlos on July 05, 2017, 08:14:32 AM
Reynir is also the only non-immune left on the crew. He may not survive the trip either.
Ssshhh. Lalala I'm not hearing youu ::)
Post by: Lazy8 on July 05, 2017, 08:31:17 AM
I've actually thought of this around the time Tuuri got bitten, and I have the feeling that Emil is the only person in the entire crew with no obvious connection to the chain of events he can blame himself for:
Lalli --> everything mentioned above
Sigrun --> neglected her wound, missed the troll
Mikkel --> It did happen in the middle of the battle, but he could blame himself for not making sure he had gotten the troll Sigrun was talking about
Reynir --> Sigrun got wounded protecting him, he was in the room when it happened, he probably could have done something if he was better at magic and he basically lied to Onni after the fact
Yep, the guilt trip potential is strong for the following chapter.
Don't forget Mikkel --> stirred up those ghosts in the first place because he had to go after the serum right now, and didn't take Reynir's warnings seriously due to his open disdain for magic. (That is, assuming that seeing a giant flaming eagle burst out of Emil's flamethrower and fly around the battlefield was enough to convince him, but then again this is Mikkel, he's been known to be pretty pigheaded.)
Post by: Grade E cat on July 05, 2017, 08:33:19 AM
Ssshhh. Lalala I'm not hearing youu ::)
My thoughts exactly.
Don't forget Mikkel --> stirred up those ghosts in the first place because he had to go after the serum right now, and didn't take Reynir's warnings seriously due to his open disdain for magic. (That is, assuming that seeing a giant flaming eagle burst out of Emil's flamethrower and fly around the battlefield was enough to convince him, but then again this is Mikkel, he's been known to be pretty pigheaded.)
This page (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=730) hints that even Emil hasn't been completely convinced quite yet, and he's the one who had the thing come out of his weapon. At any rate, the extent to which these two can afford to not believe in magic is fading away fast, between the loss of the radio and that of the only other actual Finnish speaker on the crew besides Lalli.
Post by: Jharad17 on July 05, 2017, 06:37:27 PM
Still room for Lalli, however undeservedly, to blain himself. I see it like this: in Copenhagen, Lalli didn't foresee the heavy snowfall, hence the flashback and the "I don't make mistakes" thing. So he finds a new way to the "safe" spot, a path where he exhausts his luonto self by almost killing all the trolls in the way, but not quite- leaftroll survives. But the process leaves him unconcious so he can't warn the team of the approaching danger. And so Sigruns arm get hurt. An injury that makes her miss creepy crawly troll in the big attack, so that it enters the cattank and bites Tuuri. I wonder if this chain of events will be brought up in the story?
No, no, see, this is why it's Ensi's fault! She made the original mistake, and if she hadn't, Onni wouldn't have come down on Lalli so hard in Keuruu, and told Lalli he couldn't make mistakes ever. If she shows up later in the comic (as It, or a Kade or something), Lalli can tell her so.
But seriously, when it all boils down to it, it really is Mikkel's fault, though he has no idea, and would protest to the end of the world if you told him. All the other things could have happened, and Sigrun would've been bitten, and that would've been the end of it. But Mikkel stirred up the ghosts. Mikkel disdained the ghosts. And one of those ghosts became Sleipnope and followed them to Odense, herding the trolls before it. If Mikkel had listened to Sigrun... hell, if he'd listened to Reynir, Tuuri would not have died.
Post by: Ilral on July 05, 2017, 06:50:39 PM
What I think the real question is, though, is whether a long(possibly, Keuruu wouldn't be the first "secure" base to have fallen) life lived in utter boredom behind walls is better than a short life ending in a good death and a fine afterlife.
Post by: Talimee on July 05, 2017, 07:23:51 PM
But seriously, when it all boils down to it, it really is Mikkel's fault, though he has no idea, and would protest to the end of the world if you told him. All the other things could have happened, and Sigrun would've been bitten, and that would've been the end of it. But Mikkel stirred up the ghosts. Mikkel disdained the ghosts. And one of those ghosts became Sleipnope and followed them to Odense, herding the trolls before it. If Mikkel had listened to Sigrun... hell, if he'd listened to Reynir, Tuuri would not have died.
Yep, his insubordination is at the root of it. But there are some mitigating circumstances.
1. Even if Mikkel had heeded Reynir's warning, no one knows if just even the shortest presenceof humans in the ghosts' vicinity would have been enough to set them on their trail. (random question popping up just now: How did the ghosts know where to go? They had to wait considerable time before they could leave the hospital-room so the trio was surely out of sight? How did pre-Sleipnope find them?)
2. The Amalienborg-ghosts were practically stationary, so Mikkel could safely surmise that the ghosts would not pose a threat once they left Kastellet. The animal-trails in the snow might work as an argument for that as well since they avoid the immediate vicinity of the hospital-room but continue outside of that, indicating that the ghosts therein have only a limited range at all.
3. And a last thought on this, since I am just that kind of person (sorry): No one knows if Sigrun wouldn't have lead a party to Kastellet the next day as well. Checking some buildings for a possible cure wouldn't be a bad way to wait until the Scout woke up. If she ventured on a search, she would have needed to take Reynir with her (very unlikely) to get a warning about the ghosts. And even if that was the case, the things I said further up about the ghosts are still true.
I think it's her own fault, honestly. Only an idiot expects to go into a warzone and not get shot at, and only a fool expects to go into an infested area and not get attacked by trolls.
What I think the real question is, though, is whether a long(possibly, Keuruu wouldn't be the first "secure" base to have fallen) life lived in utter boredom behind walls is better than a short life ending in a good death and a fine afterlife.
I basically agree but I like to point out that it is a difference to go somewhere dangerous and hope to get out alive and go somewhere dangerous and expect to die there. Hope and "this only happens to other people" are very strong helpers when it comes to pushing uneasy thoughts away. If they weren't no soldier, no medic and no reporter at all would ever go into a warzone.
Only a few weeks back I discussed your last question with someone and they pointed out, quite accurately, that Tuuri could have gone anywhere in the Known World and have found a job immediately. She was a polyglot, a mechanic and a scald. Heck, if she wanted she could even have worked in a semi-dangerous environment like the research-facility Siv is working at. Tuuri didn't need to stay holed up in Keuruu if she didn't want to.
But, like those people racing to the Poles, it had to be the Silent World for her.
Post by: Róisín on July 05, 2017, 07:30:24 PM
'Cattle die, kin die.
Every man is mortal.
The one thing that is never lost
Is the worth of a life lived well.'
Talimee, I think Minna made it fairly obvious in the art of that page that the ghosts followed their trampled tracks in the snow, but in many folktales hostile spirits track people by the scent of their warm blood or the feel of their living souls.
Post by: Jharad17 on July 05, 2017, 07:32:23 PM
I think it's her own fault, honestly. Only an idiot expects to go into a warzone and not get shot at, and only a fool expects to go into an infested area and not get attacked by trolls. Now, the others tried to save her, but trying and failing isn't enough to be blamed(otherwise there's be a case to blame people like the inventor of the cat-tank and the nordic council representative who tried to prevent them from going whatsoever).
Oh, absolutely, blame, if there is blame to be had, falls squarely on Tuuri's shoulders. That's different from saying she got what she deserved, as I don't believe anyone deserves such a fate. But, obviously, if Tuuri had not gone into the Silent World, she would still be alive... which leads to the following:
Quote
What I think the real question is, though, is whether a long(possibly, Keuruu wouldn't be the first "secure" base to have fallen) life lived in utter boredom behind walls is better than a short life ending in a good death and a fine afterlife.
Not for Tuuri, I think. She never thought that she would end up a statistic, but like she told Reynir, even after everything that happened, she didn't regret taking charge of her life. She would have wilted in Keuruu, and would have regretted not going, for the entirety of her long, boring life.
Post by: Lazy8 on July 05, 2017, 07:36:38 PM
I think it's her own fault, honestly. Only an idiot expects to go into a warzone and not get shot at, and only a fool expects to go into an infested area and not get attacked by trolls. Now, the others tried to save her, but trying and failing isn't enough to be blamed(otherwise there's be a case to blame people like the inventor of the cat-tank and the nordic council representative who tried to prevent them from going whatsoever).
What I think the real question is, though, is whether a long(possibly, Keuruu wouldn't be the first "secure" base to have fallen) life lived in utter boredom behind walls is better than a short life ending in a good death and a fine afterlife.
Well, we were talking specifically about self-blame... though if we're going to shift onto the topic of who's objectively at fault, then yes, Tuuri does bear some responsibility for her own fate: she's the one who enthusiastically threw herself into this mission despite knowing full well (yes, she had that very common delusion of invincibility, "Oh, it'll never happen to me" going on, but that's not exactly an excuse) that this was an all-too-real possibility.
Another group of people I have yet to see blamed, in spite of the fact that they very richly deserve a great deal of blame: the Stingy Quartet. The second they saw their budget was the second they should have realized that there was no possible way to make this work, and that they needed to drop this crazy get-rich-quick scheme and go back to their real jobs and earn their money like everybody else. But no: they cut corners. They underequipped their team. (If they'd had an actual tank rather than a glorified RV, that troll would never have been able to get through the floor.) They knowingly hired multiple people who couldn't communicate with each other. They knowingly hired someone who wasn't immune. This mission was all but guaranteed to end in disaster right from its conception, and they still went ahead with it.
3. And a last thought on this, since I am just that kind of person (sorry): No one knows if Sigrun wouldn't have lead a party to Kastellet the next day as well. Checking some buildings for a possible cure wouldn't be a bad way to wait until the Scout woke up. If she ventured on a search, she would have needed to take Reynir with her (very unlikely) to get a warning about the ghosts. And even if that was the case, the things I said further up about the ghosts are still true.
That is admittedly a possibility. But the point is that Sigrun never made that call, because Mikkel never gave her a chance to make that call, therefore the blame falls squarely on his shoulders.
Post by: Róisín on July 05, 2017, 07:42:03 PM
Post by: Talimee on July 05, 2017, 07:55:00 PM
Talimee, I think Minna made it fairly obvious in the art of that page that the ghosts followed their trampled tracks in the snow, but in many folktales hostile spirits track people by the scent of their warm blood or the feel of their living souls.
*slaps forehead* Of course. Seems that tracks in the snow are too obvious for me. XD
That is admittedly a possibility. But the point is that Sigrun never made that call, because Mikkel never gave her a chance to make that call, therefore the blame falls squarely on his shoulders.
I would not have taken it off his shoulders. I was merely following along alternative possibilities.
Post by: Jharad17 on July 05, 2017, 08:32:12 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on July 05, 2017, 10:42:14 PM
In order of decreasing proximity from the event:
- Sigrun, for accepting Mikkel's vague non-answer as to how many trolls he'd killed to mean that he'd gotten it rather than either clarifying and demanding a real answer or going back to check herself
- Mikkel, for giving a vague non-answer to a question that, while unclear, was still obviously referring to a very specific troll rather than asking for clarification
- Sigrun, for hiding that her injury was bothering her
- I still maintain that if Mikkel had been on the ball in the aftercare department, he should have spotted that infection whether Sigrun told him about it or not
- Mikkel, for going off on an unauthorized side trip and ignoring all warnings, end result of which is that he stirred up the ghosts that led the attack
- Tuuri herself, for knowingly jumping to explore a world to which she was deathly allergic
- The Stingy Quartet, for everything I mentioned above
I would not have taken it off his shoulders. I was merely following along alternative possibilities.
Mm, I get what you mean. I do agree that if he'd taken the time to consult with Sigrun, there's a good chance they would have still gone to that building and stirred up the ghosts anyway - but in that case it would have been not so much the fault of someone acting irresponsibly as one of those tragic coincidences that's no one's fault. First of all they would have been taking more reasonable precautions, by having at least one combatant (Sigrun) present who's used to surviving in the Silent World. They probably would have left Reynir and Tuuri behind in the tank, under Emil's guard, because it's the responsible thing not to drag non-immune people and especially non-immune civilian stowaways into an unscouted area. (Note that Mikkel explicitly failed to do the responsible thing on several different counts, by 1) leaving two non-immune people alone with only a comatose "guard", and 2) allowing them to tag along with him rather than escorting them right back to the tank. Also note that when Sigrun brought everyone along with her to help carry stuff (Chapter 11), she did so only after she, Emil, and Lalli had already explored the area and confirmed it as safe.) Because Reynir wouldn't have been with them, they would have had no warning, and they can't be accused of negligence for not acting on information they didn't have. Even if they were aware that there were a few ghosts floating around the area, well, both Lalli and Reynir had already said they didn't seem hostile.
So yeah, there are definitely ways for this to have happened that don't require negligence on the part of the crewmembers. I'm... not sure whether this makes things better or worse.
Post by: ZanarNaryon on July 06, 2017, 06:54:08 PM
Ultimately, if you go far enough, everyone is at fault for everything. We can't continue trying to find ways to blame the team
Post by: Lazy8 on July 06, 2017, 07:29:47 PM
For the love of Odin, if you follow the trail long enough back, it's everyone's fault. Sigrun for ignoring her wound and not being able to stop crawley before it got into the tank, Lalli for leading them to the area where they first rattled one of Sleipnope's amagamate conciousness', Tuuri for accepting to go on this ridiculous mission, Mikkel for not hearing Sigrun out when she asked if he got the slithering one, Reynir for not being brave enough to stop the slither inside the tank, Emil... Can't actually think of something, but I'm sure there is something, the quartet for starting this ridiculous mission way underfunded, the Nordic Council of Search and Recovery for giving such a ridiculously small budget, that one member for losing his glasses, heck, even the Spanish guys for not being able to contain the Rash Illness.
Ultimately, if you go far enough, everyone is at fault for everything. We can't continue trying to find ways to blame the team
Um... chill. This isn't about character bashing; some of us just like to trace back cause and effect and what various characters could have done better to prevent this from happening. You don't; that's fine, but you're free to ignore the discussion or to bring up something else that interests you. But don't lecture others on what they can and cannot talk about.
Post by: Lazy8 on July 16, 2017, 02:18:59 AM
Spoiler: Cut for length • show
Post by: Róisín on July 16, 2017, 04:45:45 AM
I wonder what is going to become of Onni?
Post by: quark on July 17, 2017, 02:36:09 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/JnquuAx.png)
Here's the footprint's from Reynir's dream
(http://i.imgur.com/QRZR43y.png)
...and here are the tracks Emil and Lalli left after the shopping trip. Not quite the same, are they? Now, take a look at the footprints Tuuri left running down to the beach:
(http://i.imgur.com/MtQe9mI.png)
If somebody were to run a wheelbarrow through those, they would match the tracks in the dream almost exactly, I think. Again, I have no idea what that means, but I think our little stowaway is about to pull something big sometime soon. Who knows how or whether it involves Tuuri (I would wager it does) but I'm excited for it either way!
Post by: Grade E cat on July 17, 2017, 02:52:22 AM
Post by: thorny on July 17, 2017, 09:44:25 AM
take a look at the footprints Tuuri left running down to the beach:
[img]
If somebody were to run a wheelbarrow through those, they would match the tracks in the dream almost exactly, I think.
Not unless the person running the wheelbarrow managed not to leave any tracks of their own while doing so. There's only one set of human tracks in the vision.
Post by: urbicande on July 17, 2017, 10:52:59 AM
Not unless the person running the wheelbarrow managed not to leave any tracks of their own while doing so. There's only one set of human tracks in the vision.
The sandpeople always walk* single file to hide their numbers.
*Yes, yes, I know it should be "ride" there
Post by: Jharad17 on July 17, 2017, 08:24:47 PM
Post by: elekia on July 17, 2017, 11:45:10 PM
Post by: Solokov on July 18, 2017, 09:27:16 AM
Post by: Miriam on July 18, 2017, 09:37:42 AM
I'm not 100% sure who that is in the driver's seat to be honest... I mean I think it's Reynir,, like 99% sure based off the clothing, but the shading makes the hair look blonde. Also much shorter, almost like he cut his hair.
I'm certain it's Reynir, he's tall. I don't think his hair is any shorter and it's just the light that makes it look less red.
Post by: thorny on July 18, 2017, 10:02:14 AM
My eyes tricked me and for a moment I thought I saw a very wide-eyed Tuuri crouched hiding under his chair; but it's a rather freaked out looking Kitty.
What's under the pyre/cairn? Did they actually retrieve a body? Or is that a memorial rite with no body, possibly using some of Tuuri's personal belongings?
Post by: JacobThomsen on July 18, 2017, 10:35:21 AM
What's under the pyre/cairn? Did they actually retrieve a body? Or is that a memorial rite with no body, possibly using some of Tuuri's personal belongings?I don't think they got Tuuri's body back, even if they were able to retrieve it from the water it would almost certainly require someone to go swimming in the very cold sea water. And having anyone taking such a risk is not a good idea in their current situation.
Post by: ZanarNaryon on July 18, 2017, 11:57:03 AM
I don't think they got Tuuri's body back, even if they were able to retrieve it from the water it would almost certainly require someone to go swimming in the very cold sea water. And having anyone taking such a risk is not a good idea in their current situation.Someone pointed this out in the comments (though I can't remember who), but it was a beach, so it's unlikely she jumped into deep water. The cold water most likely stunned her, and she was unable to get out of the shallow water, drowning.
Post by: urbicande on July 18, 2017, 12:10:44 PM
Post by: thorny on July 18, 2017, 01:53:38 PM
Someone pointed this out in the comments (though I can't remember who), but it was a beach, so it's unlikely she jumped into deep water.
I don't know the geography in that area; but there are places in a number of parts of the world where a beach shallow enough to wade in near the edge drops off abruptly into deep water not very far from shore. I was assuming that was the situation here. -- that's what page 744 looks like to me; the land approaching the ocean alternates fairly steep downhills with short relatively level patches; the water's a different color not very far out; the waves appear to become sharper quite close to the beach.
Post by: October Sky on July 18, 2017, 03:25:15 PM
-"Trying is not always a beneficial course of action"
-Sigrun asking Emil if he'll stop moping if they bury the cats properly seems sort of relevant
-The panel of Mikkel placing a stone on the cats grave on 355 is quite similar to the one on the most recent page
-Also the cat's wound is around her front left leg. Tuuri's was on her left shoulder
Thoughts?
Post by: Sunflower on July 18, 2017, 07:05:41 PM
Someone pointed this out in the comments (though I can't remember who), but it was a beach, so it's unlikely she jumped into deep water. The cold water most likely stunned her, and she was unable to get out of the shallow water, drowning.
I was one of those commentors (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_754/#comment-3422066982)(though very likely not the only one).
Of course, Minna as author can arrange matters however she likes. But JacobThomsen's analysis seems spot-on to me.
Maybe later in the chapter we'll find out exactly what did happen with Tuuri's funeral rites.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on July 20, 2017, 09:50:52 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on July 20, 2017, 10:39:37 PM
Post by: Róisín on July 20, 2017, 11:44:58 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on July 21, 2017, 02:42:53 AM
My guess is he's looking for Tuuri's soul to make sure it didn't get lost along the way. Not sure how much awareness he has over what happened with the Swan.
Post by: JacobThomsen on July 21, 2017, 04:37:16 AM
My guess is he's looking for Tuuri's soul to make sure it didn't get lost along the way. Not sure how much awareness he has over what happened with the Swan.That sounds like something he could be doing, but of course we can't be completely sure
Post by: thorny on July 21, 2017, 09:10:00 AM
Suppose they left Reynir and Lalli with the cattank. Reynir stays safe inside. Lalli can go out and get water, fuel, maybe food; as well as detect trolls. Meanwhile Sigrid, Mikkel, and Emil take Kitty plus what weapons and survival gear they can carry, using backpacks etc -- forget about the wheelbarrow, it would just slow them down -- and head for the pickup point. When the pickup people show, a larger crew goes back to get Reynir, Lalli, and the books -- and maybe the rescue ship carries some kind of vehicle to do so with.
The major problem I see is that the people heading for the pickup point would have no mage with them. But they'd have a troll detector in Kitty; and the ghosts, at least according to Reynir, seem to be fixed on Reynir and might well not go beyond the cattank once they catch up to it -- and the cattank is protected against them.
The other problem, of course, is how to explain this to Lalli -- 'no don't try to follow us, stay with the tank and protect Reynir, we'll be back'. But Mikkel could explain it to Reynir, at least. Though it would be unnerving, waiting in the tank for people to come back for you who might not have survived to do so.
Post by: Sc0ut on July 21, 2017, 09:24:39 AM
The major problem I see is that the people heading for the pickup point would have no mage with them. But they'd have a troll detector in Kitty; and the ghosts, at least according to Reynir, seem to be fixed on Reynir and might well not go beyond the cattank once they catch up to it -- and the cattank is protected against them.
No, the major problem is that we've seen ghosts don't come alone. They bring trolls with them, and the cattank only offers very limited protection against that, especially when not defended by any fighter. Sticking together is the only way they stand a chance, and it's gonna be a close call anyway.
Post by: thorny on July 21, 2017, 09:37:18 AM
the cattank only offers very limited protection against that, especially when not defended by any fighter.
Lalli's a fighter, and quite a good one. Yes, technically he's a scout; but we've seen him take down trolls more than once, including on his own; and he nearly killed Sleipnope.
But you have a point. One fighter against another who-knows-how-many-trolls wouldn't stand much chance; though how much chance the whole group would stand, with no tank for even limited protection, is another question.
Post by: Sc0ut on July 21, 2017, 09:59:50 AM
Post by: JoB on July 21, 2017, 02:02:38 PM
When the pickup people show, a larger crew goes backUmh. Says who? It took the quartet talking to their financers, the Icelandic government, to get that ship to lend any hand at all, weeks (if not months) later, remember? I don't think that the ship's crew will take any suggestions or orders from the rag tag band, much less such a risky one.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 21, 2017, 02:10:37 PM
Post by: thorny on July 21, 2017, 02:32:56 PM
Umh. Says who? It took the quartet talking to their financers, the Icelandic government, to get that ship to lend any hand at all, weeks (if not months) later, remember? I don't think that the ship's crew will take any suggestions or orders from the rag tag band, much less such a risky one.
Well, that's a point. (Is the pickup ship the same as the one that delivered the food, though? It's the food delivery that I remember there being a long argument about; but my memory may be faulty. Even if it's a different ship, however, they may not be willing or may not be equipped for a rescue mission at some distance from the ship.)
I expect the question's moot, anyway. Sigrun has no intention of splitting the party; and her opinion's going to have a lot more effect than mine.
Post by: JoB on July 21, 2017, 03:05:28 PM
Is the pickup ship the same as the one that delivered the food, though?No, Túnfiskurinn certainly did not have a quarantine section aboard. It's a ship delivering merchandise to Bornholm - carrots and canned tuna at least - and the captain vowed to make things ugly if Trond ever contacted her again. Torbjörns wording (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=298) suggests that "the Icelanders" offered the quarantine ship without any arm-twisting.
Post by: Róisín on July 22, 2017, 03:10:54 AM
Post by: urbicande on July 24, 2017, 02:52:24 PM
Well, Reynir is an Icelandic citizen astray in the dangerous outside world. They'll want him back.
Only if they think he's important.
Post by: wavewright62 on July 24, 2017, 08:43:04 PM
Only if they think he's important.
There aren't that many Icelanders, total. Every Icelander is an important Icelander, I would think. Also, my headcanon is that with no fewer than *four* children from the Dagrenning programme, this family is on the map with the authorities, even if this one is a 'natural.'
Post by: Róisín on July 24, 2017, 09:44:41 PM
Post by: October Sky on July 25, 2017, 12:04:24 AM
Post by: Ilral on July 25, 2017, 01:39:15 PM
We're definitely seeing character development for Sigrun I think. She really is a lot more caring and attentive than people give her credit for, as shown by her picking up on what Lalli is trying to do and wanting to help him with it. She may not always be good at showing it, but she does care for the people under her command. Losing one of them has hit her hard and she's trying to not let the others see it, and whether or not thats a good idea is debatable.I mean, you don't get to be a captain by being a bad leader.
Post by: Antillanka on July 25, 2017, 11:00:40 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on July 29, 2017, 05:18:51 PM
I'm pretty glad Mikkel got the clock out, poor Lalli looked like he was just about to get an aneurysm with everybody else discussing what to say in their own languages...
But at least now (pg 760) he is getting some space to do his duty to his family.
I'm not so sure about how well meatballs will serve a convalescent who's been in a coma for a few weeks, though, poor Onni. Just eat the broth, okay?
Post by: Rhynerd on July 30, 2017, 12:13:01 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on July 30, 2017, 03:02:36 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 30, 2017, 08:33:55 AM
I can imagine that it'll be even harder for Onni and Emil's family to talk about anything regarding the mission. It seems that he saw Tuuri's spirit before he woke up, so he probably knows she's dead. The family only knows that she was infected, the radio probably died with the cattank, and they certainly show no signs of believing a single thing that Onni lives with as a mage.
Taru at least will believe him. She might be able to talk the others round a bit. And I don't think we have any info on Trond's views on magic. As a Norwegian he should at least be open to the idea that Onni has some insider knowledge.
Post by: Ilral on July 30, 2017, 01:20:53 PM
Post by: Rhynerd on July 30, 2017, 01:43:29 PM
Post by: Elleth on July 30, 2017, 02:06:04 PM
But could they expect her to die so soon? Could any of them expect Onni to find out what's happened to her?
Taru likely could expect that of Onni, being Finnish and knowing how things tend to shake out in their culture/spiritual system - she's a former military strategist, she ought to be aware of the capacities of mages if she was any good at her job at all, and she wasn't particularly fazed to call out Torbjörn on the "struck by lightning inside the house" thing. Trond is a wildcard - but he's Norwegian, so he ought to at least believe in magic even if he's unclear on the Finnish system. Torbjörn and Siv? Not.
As for expecting Tuuri to die so soon... no. I don't think so. It must have been around ten days -possibly longer - since Odense, so she's perfectly in time for showing symptoms (two weeks being the normal quarantine duration), but Hilde Rasmussen lived another two weeks after showing symptoms, and it's been implied in the hospital flashback that people may survive longer (and then trollify), so Tuuri would have had time, physically (the voices are a different question, she may not have been herself), and it sounded like they were expecting her to make it to the ship from the last radio interaction there was. It also seemed like they were harbouring some hope that she might have gotten away somehow. Her suicide was out of the blue, and will probably be received as such.
Post by: JoB on July 31, 2017, 02:11:35 AM
I doubt any of them are seriously expecting her to make it back to the ship.To the ship, shouldn't have been a problem. Onto the ship while already showing symptoms, much less back off a quarantine ship when infected at all, no.
Post by: Ilral on July 31, 2017, 02:34:59 AM
To the ship, shouldn't have been a problem. Onto the ship while already showing symptoms, much less back off a quarantine ship when infected at all, no.eh, same end result
Post by: Grade E cat on July 31, 2017, 06:19:25 AM
To the ship, shouldn't have been a problem. Onto the ship while already showing symptoms, much less back off a quarantine ship when infected at all, no.
Page 698 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=698) suggests that the ship could have taken her after symptoms started showing, and its crew is keeping tabs on Tuuri's health status so they know to take the appropriate measures as soon as they know they are needed. But these appropriate measures may indeed include not planning to let her off the ship.
Post by: thorny on July 31, 2017, 09:00:51 AM
Time to say goodbye is another issue; and they might well have expected that. But the only reason I can think of that they would have let a symptomatic Tuuri on the ship would be possibly to use the ship's radio for that purpose; and I don't know whether they'd have taken the risk -- or whether, by the time the team and the ship meet up, she'd still have been in condition to do so.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 31, 2017, 09:59:13 AM
Post by: thorny on July 31, 2017, 10:45:35 AM
Would either of those things have happened if she were only going to die?
I took them as signs that she was in early stages of trollifying; but I don't know for sure whether some people have both those symptoms but then only die.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 31, 2017, 12:13:13 PM
Post by: thorny on July 31, 2017, 02:12:00 PM
But then, we also don't know whether there was a stage at which the people not yet infected could tell the difference.
I was just speculating; I agree we don't know just what the cats are detecting, or what it means for those who couldn't previously to become able to hear the voices, or what the difference is between those who trollify and those who die.
Post by: Elleth on July 31, 2017, 06:31:44 PM
We don't know whether the failed cure which created the murder ghosts was given to people who were only dying, however. It may have only been given to people who were trollifying.
But then, we also don't know whether there was a stage at which the people not yet infected could tell the difference.
It was given to people who only had an early stage of the disease, as per Mikkel in Amalienborg, so it shouldn't have been apparent yet whether they were simply dying or trollifying. At least during the creation of the cure, the only indicator seems to have been the resilience of the infected.
Quote
I was just speculating; I agree we don't know just what the cats are detecting.
I keep thinking of the safety measures in Mora - they had cats sniffing the luggage there, and it feels more likely to me that they were checking for traces of infection, e.g. in an infected person's clothes, than for, say, Rash beasts that got into the luggage or that someone might have tried smuggling into the safe zones. So I'd guess they can detect the Rash itself, not merely trollified creatures.
Post by: Sunflower on July 31, 2017, 08:59:48 PM
It was given to people who only had an early stage of the disease, as per Mikkel in Amalienborg, so it shouldn't have been apparent yet whether they were simply dying or trollifying. At least during the creation of the cure, the only indicator seems to have been the resilience of the infected.
I keep thinking of the safety measures in Mora - they had cats sniffing the luggage there, and it feels more likely to me that they were checking for traces of infection, e.g. in an infected person's clothes, than for, say, Rash beasts that got into the luggage or that someone might have tried smuggling into the safe zones. So I'd guess they can detect the Rash itself, not merely trollified creatures.
In the absence of Word of God, I'm going to offer a different point of view.
I'm assuming that by "the Rash itself" you mean infectious particles outside a host body -- though please correct me if I'm wrong.
Minna has said the Rash agent (virus, bacteria, prion, fungus spore, or ???) doesn't survive long outside a host. That's why Lalli, after his first scouting mission, had his clothes put in the Cattank's ultraviolet-light disinfector -- though he could have just been made to stand in the sunshine for a couple of hours. The Mora government washes and sterilizes the clothes people are wearing -- though we didn't see how they handle shoes (https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/animalhealthwelfare/diseasecontrols/footandmouthdisease/adviceleaflets/Foot%20and%20mouth%20leaflet.pdf)and accessories such as jewelry, hats, hairclips, wallets, etc. But it doesn't extend that treatment to the contents of bags, which are merely inspected. (It seems like either the Mora authorities or Minna herself didn't consider the possibility that someone might have taken off something s/he was wearing and put it in a bag -- or else they assume the infectious agent never outlives the check-in process.)
So to my mind, the small amount of Rash contaminant a person could pick up in casual contact with a infected environment is not what the cats are there to detect.
HOWEVER, all non-feline mammals can carry the Rash if they're not immune. In some ways, the smallest mammals (mice, voles, etc.) pose the biggest infection risk because they can creep in anywhere. I think the cats are there to detect the threat of live but infected critters sneaking into baggage (and/or very small Rash-beasts if you don't consider those literally "alive") -- as well as people/pets/livestock who are infected (the way Kisu reacted to Tuuri).
This still leaves the possibility that a malicious or crazy person might try to smuggle in a chunk of a Rash-beast. (Is anyone in the Known World naive enough to think of a dead, preserved Rash-creature as merely a trophy, like the "shrunken heads" soldiers brought home from the South Pacific?) We don't know how long severed tissue stays infectious; it does at least seem to lose the ability to move and/or regenerate once the Beast/Troll is killed. It seems plausible to me that cats could detect that, too.
Post by: Keeper on July 31, 2017, 10:27:46 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on July 31, 2017, 10:49:01 PM
I was thinking perhaps the cats simply detect it by scent? Sure, there is likely some magical sensing going on, as I believe that was shown with the murderghosts' first attack on the tank. But I figure that since the Illness causes a change is a person's tissue, there would probably be a change in smell that cats could detect and react to, even if the person is fated to die, not trollify. Kitty probably recognizes it as dangerous either way.
Some research suggests that dogs can smell the presence of certain diseases (including cancer) on affected individuals. The SSSS Known World includes that most elusive of beasts, the trained cat, that seems to have the same ability.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 01, 2017, 12:29:23 AM
https://youtu.be/yhnpYF5YjXY?t=52s (https://youtu.be/yhnpYF5YjXY?t=52s)
I didn't know the title until I looked for it. As far as I was concerned, it was simply ''sad Tintin music''. But idk. There just something about what has been happening for the last few pages that reminded me of this.
Post by: Solokov on August 03, 2017, 12:26:31 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on August 03, 2017, 02:49:45 AM
1) There seems to be a grand total of two movable chairs in the entire tank (the couch seems to be another story), so this lets the diver's seat be used for something else when they are not on the move.
2) This a vehicle that is bound to change drivers frequently, so not having a permanent chair and enabling the current driver to put whatever suits them best in that space may be more practical and cheaper than putting a permanent adjustable seat in.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on August 03, 2017, 03:56:37 AM
Actually, seeing a similar comment on Disqus got me thinking, and it may not actually be as dumb as it first looks.
1) There seems to be a grand total of two movable chairs in the entire tank (the couch seems to be another story), so this lets the diver's seat be used for something else when they are not on the move.
2) This a vehicle that is bound to change drivers frequently, so not having a permanent chair and enabling the current driver to put whatever suits them best in that space may be more practical and cheaper than putting a permanent adjustable seat in.
Or alternatively it's another "unique feature" of the decidedly second-hand Cat Tank...
"The driver's chair mount has completely rusted through!"
"Ah, just weld some sheet metal over the hole and we'll fix it later!"
Post by: JoB on August 03, 2017, 03:15:41 PM
Latest page shows the pilot and co-pilot of the tank had office chairs and not dedicated chairs.... I think.Actually Emil moved the driver's seat away from the steering wheel a bit (to where it should be in the door leading to the office/radio compartment) so as to make room for him on the floor. The actual passenger-side seating in the driver's cab is a fixed, L-shaped bench (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=189) that could probably accomodate three (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=179).
Post by: Hrollo on August 07, 2017, 09:53:40 PM
Come to think of it there's also a similar scene of solitary wandering through the frozen wasteland in Doctor Zhivago.
At least Emil and Lalli are together.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 08, 2017, 06:55:53 AM
Post by: thorny on August 08, 2017, 08:47:52 AM
Some people are able to weep easily at a lesser grief but not at a greater one.
Post by: Ragnarok on August 08, 2017, 10:44:26 AM
Maybe this is just too much for him and part of his mind is protecting him by shutting his feelings down.
Some people are able to weep easily at a lesser grief but not at a greater one.
Emil has absorbed the concentrated denial of the entire post-750 Minnion hivemind. Everything is fine. Tuuri is alright.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on August 08, 2017, 11:30:11 AM
Seriously, what is up with Emil this chapter? This is the same guy who cried over dead kittens and had to be comforted by Sigrun, then tore himself to pieces over putting a Beast out of its misery and had to be comforted by Lalli, yet now he's just finished burying a crewmate, and watched his best friend perform final rites for his cousin, and his reaction pretty much amounts to "Can we go yet? I'm bored." Emil occasionally saying extremely insensitive things out of sheer ignorance is only to be expected, such as his incredibly misguided pep talk to Lalli, but this goes beyond Innocently Insensitive and straight into sheer narcissism. This is not the Emil we were introduced to, and call me on blasphemy if you want to but I'm starting to wonder whether Minna just flubbed the writing.I'm thinking that we're seeing the fallout from the pep-talk-gone-bad here, in that Emil knows that Lalli doesn't want him around, even though it was the only way Sigrun would let Lalli do what he needed to do; this is not conducive to attempts at sharing anything.
In fact, on the next page, we see Emil trying to close the distance (in more than one sense), and being rebuffed by Lalli, which Emil accepts by staying back and not trying to catch up again until the next page, where Lalli's uneasy enough to assent.
Standard Disclaimer: I could easily be wrong about all of this.
Post by: Sunflower on August 08, 2017, 03:05:46 PM
Seriously, what is up with Emil this chapter? This is the same guy who cried over dead kittens and had to be comforted by Sigrun, then tore himself to pieces over putting a Beast out of its misery and had to be comforted by Lalli, yet now he's just finished burying a crewmate, and watched his best friend perform final rites for his cousin, and his reaction pretty much amounts to "Can we go yet? I'm bored."
Emil occasionally saying extremely insensitive things out of sheer ignorance is only to be expected, such as his incredibly misguided pep talk to Lalli, but this goes beyond Innocently Insensitive and straight into sheer narcissism. This is not the Emil we were introduced to, and call me on blasphemy if you want to but I'm starting to wonder whether Minna just flubbed the writing.
Exactly. My only thought is that we don't know how much time has passed since Tuuri died -- and, more importantly here, since the survivors learned she's dead -- so maybe we could assume several days have passed? Otherwise, that is disturbing.
I have to say, much though I love SSSS, I'm sometimes bothered by the sharp discrepancies in tone. YMMV, and I don't want to open a whole debate right here about the allowable bounds of tone/event within a given genre (since I blathered on so much about that in the immediate wake of Tuuri's death)... but I think Minna's characters do often have odd lapses in the level of compassion, concern, etc., that one expects normal people to have in a realistic (and reasonably peaceful, stable) setting. One example is how Siv and Torbjorn relate to their kids. (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=130)
Emil, bless his sparkly heart, is actually sweet with them despite their being rambunctious, but their own parents just seem anxious to be shed of them. This can be funny in a purely-for-yuks setting like a TV sitcom, but in real life I'd be a bit concerned if I saw parents being so distant to their children on returning after several days away. (All the more if you hypothesize, like I do, that in the Known World children would be a precious resource and therefore would be cherished.... though perhaps the downside of a pro-child policy would mean people like Siv and Torbjorn, who really aren't suited for parenthood, face social pressure to have kids regardless.)
Who knows whether these weird chilly patches reflect quirks of Minna's own personality (she seems extremely introverted), eccentric theories of how people relate to one another and how to reflect that in a story, or a subtle portrayal of a post-apocalyptic culture so affected by generations of death and horror that now they're all "LOL nothing matters." (You see that in some modern Russian (http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/09/02/dying-russians/) and Eastern European writing.)
Post by: Hrollo on August 08, 2017, 03:55:37 PM
Seriously, what is up with Emil this chapter? This is the same guy who cried over dead kittens and had to be comforted by Sigrun, then tore himself to pieces over putting a Beast out of its misery and had to be comforted by Lalli, yet now he's just finished burying a crewmate, and watched his best friend perform final rites for his cousin, and his reaction pretty much amounts to "Can we go yet? I'm bored."
That's not what happened at all?
Emil was waiting for Lalli in the cat-tank. Lalli went to find him. Emil asked "Are we going now?". Not "Can we go yet?" or Can we go already?". Ie: he was asking for confirmation that Lalli was indeed signifying to him that they were leaving, as opposed to needing Emil for something else.
Post by: Sc0ut on August 08, 2017, 05:53:38 PM
Post by: Sunflower on August 08, 2017, 06:26:36 PM
Lazy8, that might be flubbed writing (after all good art is largely in the eye of the beholder) but it's also worth saying that not everyone reacts to shock and grief in the same way. Appearing unemotional is not always a sign of narcissism. In dangerous situations, emotions can take a back seat and only come out when one is feeling safer, sometimes days or even months later. I think Emil might be the one hardest hit by the loss, actually. He doesn't have Lalli's and Reynir's certainty about afterlife, nor Sigrun's and Mikkel's life experience and perspective that comes with it. He's very likely still in shock, just putting one foot in front of the other.
Good point. I'll be very curious to see his and the rest of the crew's reactions when they finally start talking about losing Tuuri (or at least we get a clue to how much time has passed).
Post by: Róisín on August 08, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on August 08, 2017, 07:08:04 PM
That's not what happened at all?
Emil was waiting for Lalli in the cat-tank. Lalli went to find him. Emil asked "Are we going now?". Not "Can we go yet?" or Can we go already?". Ie: he was asking for confirmation that Lalli was indeed signifying to him that they were leaving, as opposed to needing Emil for something else.
I'm not just going by what he said, though. I'm going by his nonverbal language as well, and his expression looks bored, and he's also not expressing a whole lot of concern about how badly he messed up earlier.
Lazy8, that might be flubbed writing (after all good art is largely in the eye of the beholder) but it's also worth saying that not everyone reacts to shock and grief in the same way. Appearing unemotional is not always a sign of narcissism. In dangerous situations, emotions can take a back seat and only come out when one is feeling safer, sometimes days or even months later. I think Emil might be the one hardest hit by the loss, actually. He doesn't have Lalli's and Reynir's certainty about afterlife, nor Sigrun's and Mikkel's life experience and perspective that comes with it. He's very likely still in shock, just putting one foot in front of the other.
*sigh* Okay look, it honestly bugs me, a lot, that you're advocating for Emil here despite him showing no sign whatsoever that he actually cares, yet you didn't care at all to give Sigrun that same benefit of the doubt when she didn't seem sufficiently torn up over killing that water beast. As a matter of fact, the exact phrase you used was "high-functioning psychopath"? That's incredibly unfair.
(And I think that no matter how you spin it, the one hit hardest by the loss here is Lalli.)
I think Sc0ut has the right of it - and as well as shock, this is not the time or place for frantic expressions of emotion. They are still in a dangerous situation, and need to be in control of themselves to survive. I doubt that Emil has any emotional map for dealing with this situation.
See, I believe that with regards to Sigrun and Mikkel's behavior - they're older, they've seen more loss, Sigrun especially has got to keep it together in order to get the rest of the team out alive, and Mikkel's never been particularly expressive to begin with. Emil, though? Again, guy who was completely broken up over dead kittens. Guy who takes off running and screaming for Sigrun whenever anything attacks him. Emil is the last character I'd expect to be in control of himself under emotional stress.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 08, 2017, 07:38:58 PM
Seriously, what is up with Emil this chapter? This is the same guy who cried over dead kittens and had to be comforted by Sigrun, then tore himself to pieces over putting a Beast out of its misery and had to be comforted by Lalli, yet now he's just finished burying a crewmate, and watched his best friend perform final rites for his cousin, and his reaction pretty much amounts to "Can we go yet? I'm bored." Emil occasionally saying extremely insensitive things out of sheer ignorance is only to be expected, such as his incredibly misguided pep talk to Lalli, but this goes beyond Innocently Insensitive and straight into sheer narcissism. This is not the Emil we were introduced to, and call me on blasphemy if you want to but I'm starting to wonder whether Minna just flubbed the writing.
Lazy8, that might be flubbed writing (after all good art is largely in the eye of the beholder) but it's also worth saying that not everyone reacts to shock and grief in the same way. Appearing unemotional is not always a sign of narcissism. In dangerous situations, emotions can take a back seat and only come out when one is feeling safer, sometimes days or even months later. I think Emil might be the one hardest hit by the loss, actually. He doesn't have Lalli's and Reynir's certainty about afterlife, nor Sigrun's and Mikkel's life experience and perspective that comes with it. He's very likely still in shock, just putting one foot in front of the other.
Good point. I'll be very curious to see his and the rest of the crew's reactions when they finally start talking about losing Tuuri (or at least we get a clue to how much time has passed).I think that in canon it's still the next day after Tuuri died.
Count backward: Lalli's extra rites took a few hours, so they're only a few hours after the wheelbarrow party left.
Lalli started his rites while the others were assembled around Tuuri's pyre.
It's possible there's a gap between Tuuri's death and her pyre, but Sigrun is antsy to keep moving, not wanting to spend another night in the spot with the kaput Cattank.
Mikkel sent Lalli & Emil to get the wheelbarrow & supplies just after the Cattank died, maaayyyybe the next day, planning to leave the next day. Tuuri heard the voices on the evening of that day, after Lalli & Emil get back, and drowned herself then as well. Recap: the demise of the Cattank, the supply foray where Emil & Lalli fell out, and Tuuri's death were all on the same day.
The night before that, Reynir had his doggo dream. That was right after he & Tuuri played cards & had a chat about regrets.
The day before (based on Tuuri's 'we'll talk tomorrow'), Reynir went apes**t on Lalli, Lalli retaliated, and Emil separated them.
.
8(
Conclusion: today's creepy bridge page is still a day, maybe two, after the Cattank's expiry. So in total, we have had as little as 3 and as many as 5 days since Emil had to intervene with Lalli as a comparatively sensitive mediator. (Lalli & Reynir got kinda sorted out by Tuuri, but Emil did not.) Lalli spurned Emil rather forcefully just yesterday, or maybe the day before, and then before any of that could be resolved, Tuuri died.
.
Those few days have taken months to play out for us, so it seems like an extended turn in the writing, but I'm thinking we need to give Emil a benefit of doubt. It's been a really. tough. coupl'a days.
Post by: Hrollo on August 08, 2017, 08:10:43 PM
I'm not just going by what he said, though. I'm going by his nonverbal language as well, and his expression looks bored, and he's also not expressing a whole lot of concern about how badly he messed up earlier.
Well from my point of view this is an uncharitable interpretation of what evidence we have of his current state of mind (which is to say, not a lot of evidence in any particular direction). We all have biased and slanted readings of what the acts of a character are supposed to actually imply about their inner psychology, based on our own experience and such, but it seems here you're letting Emil's earlier misguided attempt at conforting Lalli color negatively everything he subsequently does, no matter how innocuous.
My impression of Emil is, on the contrary, of someone who started as pretty insensitive and was blathering a lot of random hurting things in the first chapters, but who has since then mattured a lot, learned to pay a lot more attention to the people around, watch his tongue, and try to act with care and warmth toward others.
Now that's just my interpretation, which surely has its own biases and blind spots, but it goes to show that the significance of Emil's behavior is not a clear cut fact that anyone should be compelled to agree on.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 08, 2017, 08:50:10 PM
Well from my point of view this is an uncharitable interpretation of what evidence we have of his current state of mind (which is to say, not a lot of evidence in any particular direction). We all have biased and slanted readings of what the acts of a character are supposed to actually imply about their inner psychology, based on our own experience and such, but it seems here you're letting Emil's earlier misguided attempt at conforting Lalli color negatively everything he subsequently does, no matter how innocuous.
My impression of Emil is, on the contrary, of someone who started as pretty insensitive and was blathering a lot of random hurting things in the first chapters, but who has since then mattured a lot, learned to pay a lot more attention to the people around, watch his tongue, and try to act with care and warmth toward others.
Now that's just my interpretation, which surely has its own biases and blind spots, but it goes to show that the significance of Emil's behavior is not a clear cut fact that anyone should be compelled to agree on.
Oh, I don't think I'm letting Emil's misguided pep talk color everything he does. (Though I'll admit, it bothers me quite a bit that he's shown no sign whatsoever of even realizing what he did wrong.) That pep talk, while it was certainly misguided and certainly made me angry at Emil, was still within the bounds of Emil's prior characterization (opening his mouth without thinking (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=114), saying something unintentionally patronizing or insensitive (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=230)). This isn't. I find his behavior here incredibly jarring because it's completely at odds with the way he's acted before - caring, empathic, not always reading Lalli perfectly but at least being willing to consider and adjust his own behavior, and he's certainly never acted so callous toward the death of anything.
Believe me, I don't want to be reading Emil as an uncaring narcissist. I just don't like that either that or "Minna's writing suddenly took a nosedive" are the only two explanations that make sense to me right now. :-\
Post by: Keeper on August 08, 2017, 09:08:32 PM
So now to these recent pages- I don't think Emil is being an "uncaring narcissist." I think he's between a rock and a hard place emotionally, and to me it looks like he's finally giving Lalli the space he needs. Also, looking back at page 759, Emil volunteers to stay with Lalli so he can finish his mage work. Then he patiently waits until Lalli finishes, and follows him away from the cattank. By trying to walk evenly with Lalli, he showed that he was willing to try and reconcile, but Lalli made it clear that he is in no mood for that, so Emil now hangs back.
I think Emil is still being quite sympathetic to Lalli, and not in the heavy-handed way that has caused them problems before.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 08, 2017, 09:12:08 PM
What I've been thinking is that right now, Emil isn't really sure how to express all the emotions he's feeling, and he doesn't really have any good opportunities to either. Like wavewright said, it's been maybe a day or two since the "shopping" scene, after which point Emil has been cut off from connecting emotionally with Lalli for a while. So Tuuri's death came at a time when Emil and Lalli's relationship was strained and uncertain, Emil can't communicate with Reynir, and I doubt he feels very comfortable expressing whatever strong emotions he's feeling to either Sigrun or Mikkel.
So now to these recent pages- I don't think Emil is being an "uncaring narcissist." I think he's between a rock and a hard place emotionally, and to me it looks like he's finally giving Lalli the space he needs. Also, looking back at page 759, Emil volunteers to stay with Lalli so he can finish his mage work. Then he patiently waits until Lalli finishes, and follows him away from the cattank. By trying to walk evenly with Lalli, he showed that he was willing to try and reconcile, but Lalli made it clear that he is in no mood for that, so Emil now hangs back.
I think Emil is still being quite sympathetic to Lalli, and not in the heavy-handed way that has caused them problems before.
Maybe. I'll admit that it's that "Are we going now?", coupled with Emil's bored expression, that bothers me the most. From the perspective of "giving Lalli his space", I think that whole scene would have worked better if he'd simply stayed quiet, and not said anything at all, as he has at other times when he was aware that Lalli needed his space. I hope that what he does on the next few pages will answer some of those questions.
Post by: Jharad17 on August 08, 2017, 11:20:44 PM
But we'll see what happens over the next few days, I guess.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 08, 2017, 11:54:18 PM
So, Emil is very strongly empathic and capable of engaging himself fully in suffering provided he's not part of the problems. The kittens died because they were left in cold water and separated from their mother for too long - not Emil's fault. Mamacat died because she was torn up by a dog Beast - not Emil's fault. Cthulhund died because it was unfortunate enough to be non-immune and catch the Rash, and he was doing it a favor by putting it out of its misery - not Emil's fault. But, now that his friend is upset because Emil inadvertently said something hurtful, when he reassured Lalli that it was going to be okay and it turned out to be very much not okay? I can see the possibility that Emil would be mentally running away from anything and everything that's wrong with this situation, especially as relates to his own involvement in it.
I could be wrong. But it's the only thing I could come up with that makes the remotest amount of sense.
Post by: CAMIR on August 09, 2017, 04:25:18 AM
Apart from what has been already said I just want to throw in another two cents that might or might not make sense.
First of all there is this phenomenon in movies that people cry a lot when animals die but not at all when people die. (There is a fun spoof of that in A Fish called Wanda. To recap for people who haven't seen the movie: A guy is tasked with killing an old lady with three dogs. But he accidentally kills the dogs instead of the lady and is devastated each time because he loves animals. Only when he kills the third dog inadvertently the old woman dies of a heart attack. According to the producers several people asked whether any of those poor dogs were harmed in reality and their reaction was: Nobody cared about the old lady.)
So obviously some people react differently to the death of animals than to the death of people (the example above is from a comedy, granted, but it doesn't change the viewer's reaction towards it.). I don't know why this is the case because I am not one of these people but I hear this quite often. Only recently I saw a cartoon (I have no possibility to find it again) where a person walks away from an injured human only to help an injured animal in the next panel. I find this view biased and exaggerated and there might no statistical truth behind it, but there is a reason why this cartoon existed.
So it might be possible that Emil is one of these people. That it is easier for him to show emotions at the death of animals than humans.
Or he is in denial over Tuuri. At least concerning the readers there was no instant where Emil (or anybody) saw the corpse as opposed to those animals. We don't even know what was buried on the pike. Some people need visual proof of the death of a being to be able to grieve. In Tuuri's case it might not have been provided.
Lastly, another unconnected thought: Maybe the way he showed his emotions when those animals died and the way the others reacted to him showing these emotions prompted him to behave differently this time.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 09, 2017, 04:36:52 AM
I can understand why Emil's behavior seems off-putting to you, Lazy8.
Apart from what has been already said I just want to throw in another two cents that might or might not make sense.
First of all there is this phenomenon in movies that people cry a lot when animals die but not at all when people die. (There is a fun spoof of that in A Fish called Wanda. To recap for people who haven't seen the movie: A guy is tasked with killing an old lady with three dogs. But he accidentally kills the dogs instead of the lady and is devastated each time because he loves animals. Only when he kills the third dog inadvertently the old woman dies of a heart attack. According to the producers several people asked whether any of those poor dogs were harmed in reality and their reaction was: Nobody cared about the old lady.)
So obviously some people react differently to the death of animals than to the death of people (the example above is from a comedy, granted, but it doesn't change the viewer's reaction towards it.). I don't know why this is the case because I am not one of these people but I hear this quite often. Only recently I saw a cartoon (I have no possibility to find it again) where a person walks away from an injured human only to help an injured animal in the next panel. I find this view biased and exaggerated and there might no statistical truth behind it, but there is a reason why this cartoon existed.
So it might be possible that Emil is one of these people. That it is easier for him to show emotions at the death of animals than humans.
Or he is in denial over Tuuri. At least concerning the readers there was no instant where Emil (or anybody) saw the corpse as opposed to those animals. We don't even know what was buried on the pike. Some people need visual proof of the death of a being to be able to grieve. In Tuuri's case it might not have been provided.
Lastly, another unconnected thought: Maybe the way he showed his emotions when those animals died and the way the others reacted to him showing these emotions prompted him to behave differently this time.
That... actually makes weird amounts of sense. (Though I'd also say people were asking the producers specifically about the dogs because they knew no one would actually kill a human just to make a movie :P - animals might be a different story, thus the common disclaimer "No animals were harmed in the making of this film".)
Denial, as well. He honestly thought everything was going to be okay, and talked to Lalli as if everything was going to be okay, but then it wasn't, and he's still having a hard time coming to terms with that.
Post by: CAMIR on August 09, 2017, 05:28:25 AM
Post by: thorny on August 09, 2017, 09:36:10 AM
If it's a nonfiction situation, such as something on the news, I agree that a lot of the reaction probably has to do with people assuming the humans are being cared for, but worried that non-humans may not be. If I see a photo of a flood with humans and other creatures both clinging to debris in the water, I assume that rescue teams are trying to help the humans; but I don't know whether anyone tried to help the cat, and very likely nobody tried to help the fox. (ETA: though a fox would at least not have been expecting help from humans; while a cat very likely would have been, and wouldn't have understood why it was being ignored.) And very often the news story doesn't say.
But the reactions of a human grieving IRL for specific known humans/non-humans seem to me likely to be in a different category. The pain of losing a friend or family member may be too great to give in to, especially in a dangerous situation; the pain of the death of a non-human -- especially one the griever just met -- is safer to express specifically because it's lesser.
Nobody in Minna's crew has sat down and wailed out loud for hours or days. Even Lalli, who appeared at first to be collapsed in grief, turned out to be instead concentrating on essential work. They can't afford to wail out loud -- it might draw trolls. They can't afford to collapse -- doing so would risk not only their own lives, but those of the rest of the crew. The emotional control that allows them to continue to function may or may not be conscious, and is probably conscious in some of them and unconscious in others; but it needs to be there if they're going to survive.
Post by: Róisín on August 09, 2017, 11:39:48 AM
You are right on that, thorny. I have known a number of folk who have survived wars and other horrors, and it becomes second nature to many of them to suppress the overt expression of emotion. Curiously, it often seems that the greater griefs provoke less obvious reactions than lesser ones. One in particular comes to mind - a lad whom I met when I was helping out on a project that helped refugees to resettle into life in Australia. He came from one of the less pleasant cities in South America, had lost all his family, and had lived on the streets thereafter. He was lucky in that he was rescued by an aid worker, but not before he had been shot for being a street kid. He still had a nasty half-healed shoulder wound. He was quite stoical in nature, easy to get on with, or at least I found him so, and was looking forward to his second chance at life. He would talk - reluctantly, but quite calmly - about stuff that had happened to him.
We had a community garden at the project, and he used to help out there. One of the neighbourhood dogs used to hang around the garden, and the kids there came to know it well. When the dog was hit by a car just outside and killed, that kid just came apart in helpless tears. I had heard him talk about losing his mother, and while he showed sadness, I'd never previously seen him cry. But seeing the dog killed just unleashed the floodgates. I can only suppose that he felt it was 'safe' to cry in that situation.
Post by: Jharad17 on August 09, 2017, 02:33:53 PM
I can understand why Emil's behavior seems off-putting to you, Lazy8.
Apart from what has been already said I just want to throw in another two cents that might or might not make sense.
First of all there is this phenomenon in movies that people cry a lot when animals die but not at all when people die. (There is a fun spoof of that in A Fish called Wanda. To recap for people who haven't seen the movie: A guy is tasked with killing an old lady with three dogs. But he accidentally kills the dogs instead of the lady and is devastated each time because he loves animals. Only when he kills the third dog inadvertently the old woman dies of a heart attack. According to the producers several people asked whether any of those poor dogs were harmed in reality and their reaction was: Nobody cared about the old lady.)
So obviously some people react differently to the death of animals than to the death of people (the example above is from a comedy, granted, but it doesn't change the viewer's reaction towards it.). I don't know why this is the case because I am not one of these people but I hear this quite often. Only recently I saw a cartoon (I have no possibility to find it again) where a person walks away from an injured human only to help an injured animal in the next panel. I find this view biased and exaggerated and there might no statistical truth behind it, but there is a reason why this cartoon existed.
So it might be possible that Emil is one of these people. That it is easier for him to show emotions at the death of animals than humans.
Or he is in denial over Tuuri. At least concerning the readers there was no instant where Emil (or anybody) saw the corpse as opposed to those animals. We don't even know what was buried on the pike. Some people need visual proof of the death of a being to be able to grieve. In Tuuri's case it might not have been provided.
Lastly, another unconnected thought: Maybe the way he showed his emotions when those animals died and the way the others reacted to him showing these emotions prompted him to behave differently this time.
A corollary to the not crying for people but crying for animals thing: I didn't cry when my father died two years ago, not for months, and I chalk that up to the fact that I had to hold my mother together emotionally for quite some time, and from 3000 miles away. She was devastated, and I was the only stable thing she had to hold onto in the maelstrom her life dissolved into. It wasn't until she started to regain her own footing that I found my first tears for my Dad, even though we were close. On the other hand, I have been crying buckets for the past two weeks for the cat I just had to put down. In this case, I don't have anyone else that I have to prop up, I can feel my emotions now without worrying how others will be affected.
To relate this theory to Emil: with Momma cat and her kittens, and Cthulhund, nobody else needed his support after their deaths, so he could let his emotions out. But with Tuuri, if he's as worried about Lalli as I think he is, he doesn't want to be an emotional burden on Lalli in a time where he thinks Lalli may need him. This may be purely subconscious on his part, as it was, I think, with me and my father's passing. Just a thought.
Post by: thorny on August 09, 2017, 02:38:38 PM
Róisín, I remember hearing of a case -- can't now remember who it was -- in which someone had lost a close family member, and was unable to cry. Then a family pet also died -- and the tears came. For both of them. The death of the non-human had unlocked something.
That's a lot less drastic than the case you describe; but it's possible something similar was going on inside the back of the heads.
ETA: wrote that before seeing Jharad17's post, which has some similarities.
Post by: Talimee on August 09, 2017, 02:56:37 PM
Spoiler: show
Post by: wavewright62 on August 09, 2017, 04:59:23 PM
:-* :-* *throws kisses* :-* :-*
Post by: Róisín on August 09, 2017, 06:57:01 PM
Post by: October Sky on August 09, 2017, 07:53:47 PM
Post by: CAMIR on August 10, 2017, 05:02:22 AM
Why do I need to think of this so badly with the new page?
(http://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png)
(Would actually be worth to make a meme about this with Emil's head on the dog's...)
Post by: Antillanka on August 10, 2017, 11:32:57 PM
@ waveright62: *returns kisses* It was my pleasure. :3
Why do I need to think of this so badly with the new page?
(http://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png)
(Would actually be worth to make a meme about this with Emil's head on the dog's...)
Hehehe I thought of that exact comic too!!
Post by: Sc0ut on August 12, 2017, 04:42:53 AM
*sigh* Okay look, it honestly bugs me, a lot, that you're advocating for Emil here despite him showing no sign whatsoever that he actually cares, yet you didn't care at all to give Sigrun that same benefit of the doubt when she didn't seem sufficiently torn up over killing that water beast. As a matter of fact, the exact phrase you used was "high-functioning psychopath"? That's incredibly unfair.
I advocate for Emil because he resembles me a lot and I feel like I see where he comes from.
Funny that you remember what I said about Sigrun, but forget what I prefaced that commentary with: that is my interpretation/headcanon, and is based on the fact that I knew someone who behaved extremely similarly to her. I never tried to pass it as "The Correct Reading Of Sigrun", and for the record I don't think that's how Minna intends Sigrun to be seen.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 12, 2017, 06:22:39 AM
I'm certainly willing to discuss differences of opinion when it comes to the characters - and yes, I will defend my point of view and explain where I'm coming from, which while I might get overly enthusiastic is in no way intended to "convince everyone they're wrong". (As a matter of fact, I recall outright saying that I was hoping to be wrong about Emil in this chapter, but that doesn't change the fact that I read what I read and I'm still going to require convincing.)
Post by: ZanarNaryon on August 14, 2017, 06:15:39 AM
But what about trolls? Sure, it could just be a sort of evolutionary isolation, to keep the nests warm, but that would be boring. What if the walls and "structures" of a troll nest are actually an entirely separate troll? We've kinda seen it before, the sjødraug who seems to have grown part of the road. Or what if this is a kind of Vætte? We know vætter keeps in caves, in the shadows, studying bypassers. We always assumed they just hid in the caves, but what if they actually filled the caves, essentially making the opening to the cave their mouths, waiting for innocents to walk close enough to be stabbed by limbs, and pulled inside the waiting gap?
Post by: Róisín on August 14, 2017, 08:51:56 AM
I have wondered whether the Rash organism worked in similar ways to the Cordyceps that takes over burrowing caterpillars, or the Zombie Ant fungus, or even those nematodes that inhabit a spider, eating it out from the inside, and forcing it to seek out water when the nematode wants to breed. (If you look up 'coffee cup/huntsman spider/nematode/Sydney Museum' on the internet you should find something about those. Warning for parasitic squick.)
Post by: Solokov on August 14, 2017, 12:39:11 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 14, 2017, 08:37:42 PM
I read a fanfic some time ago where single trolls could grow so enormous, far beyond giants, that they filled entire buildings, sewer systems, even cities, making the cities their own sentient beings. Obviously, Minna will most likely not do something like that, that'd be silly, but this page might be hinting at something on a smaller scale.Minna did say (via the http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=178 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=178) Beasts, Trolls, & Giants info page) that giants are occasionally a single very large organism, so maybe not so silly.
I suspect this one is not a singleton, though. Your suggestion of on the nest lining - ewww, but very viable.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 16, 2017, 06:50:23 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/JnquuAx.png)
Evidence that what we thought were the tracks of someone peeling off from the group were in fact the tracks of the deer coming by after they'd already passed? (I cannot take credit for this idea, but am growing increasingly more in support of it.)
Post by: Basse on August 17, 2017, 03:57:43 PM
Huh. Just stumbled across this picture someone was kind enough to post upthread:This is the track of Reynies fylgja dog though (seen on page 717)
(http://i.imgur.com/JnquuAx.png)
Evidence that what we thought were the tracks of someone peeling off from the group were in fact the tracks of the deer coming by after they'd already passed? (I cannot take credit for this idea, but am growing increasingly more in support of it.)
Post by: Noodles on August 17, 2017, 04:37:39 PM
Huh. Just stumbled across this picture someone was kind enough to post upthread:
(http://i.imgur.com/JnquuAx.png)
Evidence that what we thought were the tracks of someone peeling off from the group were in fact the tracks of the deer coming by after they'd already passed? (I cannot take credit for this idea, but am growing increasingly more in support of it.)
They're definitely too small to be human footprints.
Post by: Hrollo on August 17, 2017, 08:01:13 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 17, 2017, 08:35:08 PM
So, it looks like it's a giant, again. Confronting Emil and Lalli, again. Like the very first live grossling we saw. Last encounter of the expedition, like, circular reference/book end?It would be, if this was indeed the *last* encounter, but I sincerely doubt it will be the last. This is after all, just over halfway through through Minna's proposed story.
Post by: Hrollo on August 17, 2017, 09:21:21 PM
It would be, if this was indeed the *last* encounter, but I sincerely doubt it will be the last. This is after all, just over halfway through through Minna's proposed story.
Oh I didn't mean last encounter of the entire story, just, last encounter of *this particular expedition*.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 18, 2017, 07:18:45 AM
Oh I didn't mean last encounter of the entire story, just, last encounter of *this particular expedition*.
About that... Minna's hinted (I think she's said, but then again I don't trust anything Minna says anymore) that there are going to be other missions after this one. What I've been wondering is... how? Where are they going to get the funding for another mission after the first one was such a disaster? (The books, maybe, but they had to leave a lot of them behind and those few they have with them might barely be enough to get the Västerströms out of debt...)
Post by: CAMIR on August 18, 2017, 07:34:44 AM
About that... Minna's hinted (I think she's said, but then again I don't trust anything Minna says anymore) that there are going to be other missions after this one. What I've been wondering is... how? Where are they going to get the funding for another mission after the first one was such a disaster? (The books, maybe, but they had to leave a lot of them behind and those few they have with them might barely be enough to get the Västerströms out of debt...)Maybe the next mission is the tank rescue mission where they are sent back to retrieve what they had to leave behind?
Post by: ZanarNaryon on August 18, 2017, 09:31:04 AM
So, it looks like it's a giant, again. Confronting Emil and Lalli, again. Like the very first live grossling we saw. Last encounter of the expedition, like, circular reference/book end?
That's a pretty good point
Post by: Elleth on August 19, 2017, 04:42:03 PM
About that... Minna's hinted (I think she's said, but then again I don't trust anything Minna says anymore) that there are going to be other missions after this one. What I've been wondering is... how? Where are they going to get the funding for another mission after the first one was such a disaster? (The books, maybe, but they had to leave a lot of them behind and those few they have with them might barely be enough to get the Västerströms out of debt...)
This is why I'm thinking we're going to have a miracle rescue on our hands at some point before the comic is over. None of the organizers knows about Tuuri yet, and with the ideas that have been discussed (here? in disqus? I'm not sure) about a bite maybe not being invariably fatal... they might believe she's okay. If someone busts her out of Tuonela, her not getting infected might get adopted as the official narrative - or "we're so awesome we brought one of our team back from the underworld, anything else is going to be a piece of cake after this". And who knows - the books might not be all that valuable, but the news about the cure might be, if the missing component is magic that the Y0 researchers had no way of knowing about.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on August 20, 2017, 08:39:50 PM
didn't we see a failed troll transformation in an early chapter, that still had its face? what if trolls keeping their faces when they first come into existence is normal? O_O
Post by: wavewright62 on August 20, 2017, 10:44:42 PM
it's pretty terrifying to think about what these grosslings might have looked like when they were first formed
didn't we see a failed troll transformation in an early chapter, that still had its face? what if trolls keeping their faces when they first come into existence is normal? O_O
It's true that we tend to react more viscerally to horror when it still looks human, and particularly when it's a good-looking human. (Boo Radley, call your office.) Every time we see another grossling, we have to remind ourselves in print that these were once humans, and whenever the grossling is small, we surmise they were once children. It would be horrible in all senses of the word were they to keep their faces for some time. (Some of the skulls are not malformed - I assumed these were victims.)
Post by: Sunflower on August 21, 2017, 01:42:30 AM
it's pretty terrifying to think about what these grosslings might have looked like when they were first formed
didn't we see a failed troll transformation in an early chapter, that still had its face? what if trolls keeping their faces when they first come into existence is normal? O_O
Are you talking about the one in Chapter 3 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=170) that the fandom calls "Miss Hearty Earrings"? I'm not sure we know enough yet about troll transformations (and troll biology in general) to say whether keeping some vestige of a human appearance marks a "failed" transformation. We've certainly seen a vast range of troll shapes.
Hopefully we'll get definitive answers on how trolls work someday.
Post by: JoB on August 21, 2017, 07:39:04 AM
Are you talking about the one in Chapter 3 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=170) that the fandom calls "Miss Hearty Earrings"?No, I think the reference goes to Ceiling-Face (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=255).
Post by: wavewright62 on August 21, 2017, 07:10:21 PM
No, I think the reference goes to Ceiling-Face (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=255).
That was my assumption. Artistic license, having all the body decay away to the skeleton, but the skin and sinew on the face is more or less intact in its death rictus. *brrrr*
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on August 21, 2017, 07:24:30 PM
That was my assumption. Artistic license, having all the body decay away to the skeleton, but the skin and sinew on the face is more or less intact in its death rictus. *brrrr*As I see it, it didn't decay: the restraints were so strong and tight that the skeleton pushed itself out, leaving the mass of the flesh in a bulge below the restraints. So even more horrifying.
Post by: Sunflower on August 21, 2017, 10:09:18 PM
That was my assumption. Artistic license, having all the body decay away to the skeleton, but the skin and sinew on the face is more or less intact in its death rictus. *brrrr*
Ohhhh yeahhhh. *brrr* I think I blocked that out of my memory self-protectively!
I suppose we consider that a "failed" troll transformation because it (apparently) died of its own accord? While I don't think we've had a consensus on whether trolls and Rash-Beasts ever die "naturally" (Cthulhund seemed at the end of its rope, but who knows what might have happened if Emil hadn't intervened), my thought is that they're probably more or less immortal until or unless some external condition intervenes -- freezing, lack of nutrition, getting shot/flamed, etc. (This is based on my headcanon that the Rash was started by an ill-thought-out attempt to overcome aging by trying to strengthen cell telomeres (https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2015/01/telomere-extension-turns-back-aging-clock-in-cultured-cells.html); the formula worked in some ways, so infected cells are essentially deathless, but they've gone very wrong indeed...)
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on August 22, 2017, 12:25:48 AM
Post by: Ilral on August 22, 2017, 03:01:42 AM
Ohhhh yeahhhh. *brrr* I think I blocked that out of my memory self-protectively!It seems to me that they don't need to breathe or eat, unless sjodraugs have gills and the original sleiptroll had 90 years worth of feed in its stall(it was restrained)
I suppose we consider that a "failed" troll transformation because it (apparently) died of its own accord? While I don't think we've had a consensus on whether trolls and Rash-Beasts ever die "naturally" (Cthulhund seemed at the end of its rope, but who knows what might have happened if Emil hadn't intervened), my thought is that they're probably more or less immortal until or unless some external condition intervenes -- freezing, lack of nutrition, getting shot/flamed, etc. (This is based on my headcanon that the Rash was started by an ill-thought-out attempt to overcome aging by trying to strengthen cell telomeres (https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2015/01/telomere-extension-turns-back-aging-clock-in-cultured-cells.html); the formula worked in some ways, so infected cells are essentially deathless, but they've gone very wrong indeed...)
Post by: Grade E cat on August 22, 2017, 03:13:21 AM
Post by: Windfighter on August 22, 2017, 05:59:06 AM
It's funny reading this page [...]
Can I agree with just this part of your quote? I'm having a blast with this page because two weeks ago I killed Emil by throwing him into an icy river and during the weekend I almost offed him with a slight case of hypotermia! Mikkel and Lalli heated him up tho, no harm done!
#sorryemil
I'm really hoping it'll turn out well tho, plz no killing of Emil, Minna, that would feel horrible after all I've put him through D:
Post by: JoB on August 22, 2017, 03:27:22 PM
Now I'm probably expecting to see a stripped down Emil in the next few weeks much more than I should.The only two ways that that could possibly happen are a) that Lalli goes out of his mind and tries to kill Emil outright, or b) they make it to some ruins the squiddies cannot get to for whatever reason and that aren't already occupied by other grosslings and some of the incendiaries Emil carries can be used without a bang that attracts attention to them. Without either, Emil would stand a better chance only taking his clothes off for a quick, strong wringing, I guess.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 22, 2017, 06:27:15 PM
Can I agree with just this part of your quote? I'm having a blast with this page because two weeks ago I killed Emil by throwing him into an icy river and during the weekend I almost offed him with a slight case of hypotermia! Mikkel and Lalli heated him up tho, no harm done!
#sorryemil
I'm really hoping it'll turn out well tho, plz no killing of Emil, Minna, that would feel horrible after all I've put him through D:
Perhaps it's a good thing that Minna generally does not note fanworks, because she'd be taking notes from you and from Lazy8, for sure!
Post by: Lazy8 on August 22, 2017, 07:12:11 PM
Perhaps it's a good thing that Minna generally does not note fanworks, because she'd be taking notes from you and from Lazy8, for sure!
Erm... *stands there with a vague guilty expression*
Yeah. That's probably a good thing.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 23, 2017, 02:06:00 AM
Erm... *stands there with a vague guilty expression*
Yeah. That's probably a good thing.
<fangirl> Because you do this so well! *fistbump*
Post by: Grade E cat on August 23, 2017, 02:54:45 AM
The only two ways that that could possibly happen are a) that Lalli goes out of his mind and tries to kill Emil outright, or b) they make it to some ruins the squiddies cannot get to for whatever reason and that aren't already occupied by other grosslings and some of the incendiaries Emil carries can be used without a bang that attracts attention to them. Without either, Emil would stand a better chance only taking his clothes off for a quick, strong wringing, I guess.
The scenario that had popped in my head was more along the lines of when they would get to camp and make sure Emil doesn't get hypothermia from falling in the water (if it happens), definitely not while they were still running from the trolls.
Post by: Vafhudr on August 23, 2017, 10:16:33 PM
Post by: Rhynerd on August 24, 2017, 12:27:03 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on August 24, 2017, 04:40:32 AM
Although with a giant in hot pursuit that may not be the most appealing option.
Post by: Lazy8 on August 24, 2017, 07:02:11 AM
(I also don't think there's many people who'd be able to focus on basic ice safety when up against that. If it's a choice of drowning in icy water or getting devoured by something that looks like it feeds by stabbing you and sucking out your liquefied insides... well, given a choice I'd risk the drowning.)
Post by: Róisín on August 24, 2017, 10:44:50 AM
Post by: Solokov on August 24, 2017, 12:43:42 PM
Post by: Hrollo on August 24, 2017, 07:38:12 PM
Post by: Unlos on August 25, 2017, 11:27:48 AM
Post by: Ragnarok on August 25, 2017, 11:32:10 AM
Uup I predict an unconscious mage coming up after his luonto is exhausted.
I also predict a sharp increase in the quantity of Emilalli fics shortly thereafter.
Heck, even I ship these two, and I usually hate shipping.
Post by: Unlos on August 25, 2017, 12:10:05 PM
I also predict a sharp increase in the quantity of Emilalli fics shortly thereafter.
Heck, even I ship these two, and I usually hate shipping.
I believe you are right. Of the frozen, soaked Emil carries best friend variety?
Post by: ZanarNaryon on August 25, 2017, 01:29:49 PM
Post by: Róisín on August 25, 2017, 06:01:14 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 25, 2017, 06:42:35 PM
Okay, so what is Lalli doing? Unless he can unleash an attack far more powerful than anything we've seen from him before, it'll be pretty ineffective against a giant. The intention seem to be a shield, but how long could that last? I guess a good explosive thrown inside the Giants mouth could do some work?
"How are you less weak?" plays in my head. This is a very different foe, but I suspect Lalli has levelled up somewhat. But you're right, and I am very curious to see where this goes.
Post by: Keeper on August 25, 2017, 07:46:22 PM
"How are you less weak?" plays in my head. This is a very different foe, but I suspect Lalli has levelled up somewhat. But you're right, and I am very curious to see where this goes.
Interesting you should say that, since my first thought was that what Lalli seems to be doing looks a lot like what he did with his knife while fighting Sleipnope.
Post by: thorny on September 01, 2017, 08:12:08 AM
Beautifully drawn page. But a very unnerving way to go into the chapter break.
Post by: wavewright62 on September 01, 2017, 06:55:16 PM
Now I am even more worried about that single line of prints with the wheelbarrow in Reynir's vision.
Beautifully drawn page. But a very unnerving way to go into the chapter break.
I
Post by: Sc0ut on September 01, 2017, 07:22:27 PM
Isuspecthope the new chapter will open with seeing what was going on with Sigrun, Mikkel and Reynir after the split. As much as I want to see howPenelope PitstopEmil & Lalli get out of this predicament, I think we need to see the other half first. I don't believe that the story will diverge into two streams here, a la The Lord of the Rings.
All good as long as we get to see how Emil and Lalli get out of this, eventually. Minna has skipped scenes that people really wanted to see before, and a chapter break usually means a time skip too, so I'm a bit worried. The boys sure are in an interesting situation right now! "Doomed" is the word that comes to mind, especially when I look at that dramatic composition, but... let's go for "challenging" instead.
Post by: Sunflower on September 05, 2017, 08:09:47 PM
All good as long as we get to see how Emil and Lalli get out of this, eventually. Minna has skipped scenes that people really wanted to see before, and a chapter break usually means a time skip too, so I'm a bit worried. The boys sure are in an interesting situation right now! "Doomed" is the word that comes to mind, especially when I look at that dramatic composition, but... let's go for "challenging" instead.
I wonder when, if ever, we'll see the cast actually processing Tuuri's fate. We've certainly seen Lalli grieving, and can well imagine Onni's reaction -- but we've only seen distant shots of the rest of the expedition at the bonfire. Emil presumably knows what happened to her, but he's clearly got more urgent issues right now in-story than discussing any feelings of loss, regret, fears, fond memories, possibly even guilt or anger, etc. etc. That doesn't mean he and the rest don't have those feelings! And that's what I hope to see in SSSS. I'd be disappointed if our next non-emergency view of the cast showed them just moving on with their quest, never uttering a word about their missing comrade.
Moreover, I assume most organizations where a member dies or is badly hurt do some kind of audit to figure out how that happened and whether that casualty could have been, or others could in the future be, prevented. But then, the Cat-Tank Expedition doesn't always seem to run on logic...
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on September 05, 2017, 09:25:38 PM
I wonder when, if ever, we'll see the cast actually processing Tuuri's fate.
T H I S. I'm actually kinda disappointed by the lack of response beyond everyone looking sad.
I hope they talk and show some introspection soon. Its whats kind of been disappointing me lately.
Post by: Mentha_spicata on September 06, 2017, 01:37:29 AM
T H I S. I'm actually kinda disappointed by the lack of response beyond everyone looking sad.
I hope they talk and show some introspection soon.
You know, going emotionally numb in first moments of mourning (and I mean undefined moments, could be hours or weeks, you name it) is certainly A reaction, not only useful from storytelling perspective, as it keeps the plot going, but a natural and common one at that. I trust Minna, she definately did not write this all in just for the sake of drama.
Evaluating characters' reactions when we are shown one page a day can be very misleading, as the pace of the story is so different from what the audience percives.
My wonderings go more into the realm of who and when will start being vocal about the situation. I silently hope for Sigrun (give the redhead some character development!), her position as a leader should come with some responsibilities.
Though I wouldn't dream of a proper audit, not yet.
Post by: Róisín on September 06, 2017, 05:49:46 AM
I would actually expect that reaction of 'Can't deal with it now, have to keep going' to be commoner in the Minnaverse than here, where often there wouldn't be time to deal with, say, the loss of one's parent/child/village/significant other, because if you stop to wail and tear your hair, you and anyone depending on you are going to die as well.
Both immediate debriefing and the overt expression of grief may not happen in a crisis situation. Might be better for the participants if they could, but I don't really see how that could work here.
Post by: thorny on September 08, 2017, 03:20:43 PM
I also wonder whether that fallen tree, if that's what it is, can be turned into heat and light for the night.
And, if so, whether Emil will burn the place down around them doing it.
And whether whoever left those dishes on the table is still around, in some unpleasant form . . .
Post by: Elleth on September 08, 2017, 05:16:12 PM
Mentha, good points. And yeah, happens in the real world too. I know that of my own knowledge. But if you fall apart in a crisis situation, even when doing so would be justified, you may not make it out of that crisis situation.
I would actually expect that reaction of 'Can't deal with it now, have to keep going' to be commoner in the Minnaverse than here, where often there wouldn't be time to deal with, say, the loss of one's parent/child/village/significant other, because if you stop to wail and tear your hair, you and anyone depending on you are going to die as well.
Both immediate debriefing and the overt expression of grief may not happen in a crisis situation. Might be better for the participants if they could, but I don't really see how that could work here.
The 'can't deal with it now, have to keep going' is a very good point - I'm pretty sure by now that this must have been part of what messed up all three surviving Hotakainens into their respective patterns - Onni most of all; as the oldest who must have carried the brunt of responsibility. And we have it on authority from Minna that (mental) health is not necessarily considered a pressing matter as long as people can do their jobs. (Notice how "honest human error" and "learn to use your words, youngsters" were all the responses we saw to the casualties after Lalli's report.
As for our team - they certainly have to keep moving. They still have the task of bringing Reynir home alive; this isn't the time to let their guard down or stop to grieve, and now there's the matter of Emil and Lalli being missing or dead (for all the other part of the team can know) to keep them occupied on top of that. I'm curious whether Sigrun is going to decide to go on or attempt a rescue/recovery mission. But either way - if they make it to the pickup spot in time, I suspect sitting idle either there or later on the ship is going to bring tensions to the surface because these things will want out in one way or another.
Post by: thorny on September 12, 2017, 05:15:55 PM
(and hey, everybody, the chapter break's over -- )
Post by: wavewright62 on September 12, 2017, 08:33:45 PM
I do hope Reynir's in that tent.
(and hey, everybody, the chapter break's over -- )
Sorta kinda, still have to suppress the f5 urge when the chapter begins on a *Tuesday* and there is nothing on a Wednesday, not even a CoH update. (And can't try out the mock game at work, drat the luck)
Post by: Grade E cat on September 13, 2017, 02:59:17 AM
Post by: ZanarNaryon on September 15, 2017, 02:09:09 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on September 15, 2017, 03:38:04 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on September 15, 2017, 06:15:58 AM
Post by: Róisín on September 15, 2017, 07:48:15 AM
Post by: urbicande on September 15, 2017, 12:08:47 PM
Today they have Reynir and Purrito.
Post by: JoB on September 15, 2017, 12:23:19 PM
Today they have Reynir and Purrito.And a fully loaded Mikkel.
Post by: urbicande on September 15, 2017, 12:38:35 PM
And a fully loaded Mikkel.
Not if he gets to "take care of business"
Post by: Solokov on September 15, 2017, 01:11:16 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on September 15, 2017, 02:18:25 PM
Post by: |Yucca| on September 15, 2017, 06:41:09 PM
One thing is also certain, no one can hear you speak, unless you speak really loudly and even then the sound is muffled and hard to understand. We've seen both Tuuri and Reynir speak whole sentences with the mask on though, which really challenges my suspension of disbelief. Guess I just have to file it under artistic license.
Post by: JoB on September 15, 2017, 06:53:05 PM
Not if he gets to "take care of business"
WHY IS REYNIR NOT WEARING A MASK?!... because Mikkel hasn't taken care of it yet?
Post by: thorny on September 15, 2017, 08:39:26 PM
Living with a gas mask on is a real pain in the ass though, so it makes sense for Reynir to not wear it as often as it's possible. It gets real sweaty under the rubber and you can't drink or eat. Or the worst of it all: you can't blow a running nose or wipe away the sweat. The fastening bands also often press your head.
One thing is also certain, no one can hear you speak, unless you speak really loudly and even then the sound is muffled and hard to understand. We've seen both Tuuri and Reynir speak whole sentences with the mask on though, which really challenges my suspension of disbelief. Guess I just have to file it under artistic license.
I don't think they're using gas masks, though. I think they're just dust/mist respirators. N95 particulate respirators are what's currently recommended against viruses, as near as I can tell:
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2012/04/lab-study-supports-use-n95-respirators-flu-protection
I have some experience with those, and, while they're still somewhat of a nuisance to wear, good ones aren't sweaty unless it's really hot, and it's not particularly difficult to hear people who are speaking through one.
It looks like they may be using something a bit more heavy duty than an N95, but I doubt it's a full scale gas mask.
Post by: |Yucca| on September 15, 2017, 09:09:05 PM
I don't think they're using gas masks, though. I think they're just dust/mist respirators. N95 particulate respirators are what's currently recommended against viruses, as near as I can tell:
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2012/04/lab-study-supports-use-n95-respirators-flu-protection
I have some experience with those, and, while they're still somewhat of a nuisance to wear, good ones aren't sweaty unless it's really hot, and it's not particularly difficult to hear people who are speaking through one.
It looks like they may be using something a bit more heavy duty than an N95, but I doubt it's a full scale gas mask.
It's true that the masks they're using aren't full on gas masks but they're clearly not those paper masks either. There's a piece of glass (or clear plastic) in the middle being held together by a bulky (rubber?) frame. The leather (or rubber) straps are really wide, so it would definitely get sweaty underneath.
The filters they have on the masks are probably not gas filters, normally they aren't that small. But even with just dust filters, the solid construction of the masks would make the user's voice quite hard to hear, as there seems to be just a few small openings on the sides.
I've used a lot of those paper masks too, and in my experience even they're still a big nuisance in the long run. I wouldn't want to keep one of them on unless really needed.
Post by: thorny on September 15, 2017, 11:17:03 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on September 16, 2017, 02:35:05 AM
Post by: Róisín on September 16, 2017, 02:51:43 AM
Post by: JoB on September 16, 2017, 05:03:29 AM
They would have every reason to make breathing masks less of a burden, because there would now be people wearing them almost 24/7.How do you come to that latter statement? The people who have to leave the cleansed areas get recruited out of the immune, if at all possible, and given the limited distance (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=437) and time the Rash can travel (and infect) outside a host body, (known) non-immune walk around their homes sans mask (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=711) all the time. It's the special circumstances of this expedition that has put two non-immune persons into Rash's larder (and another onto the trip to Mora).
To return to the initial question: Gas mask filters (and the like) are consumables. The Quartet sent out an underfunded expedition with one non-immune and (so we hope) an appropriate amount of filters for that. Then the expedition gained another non-immune person and an extended itinerary and now the mobile cleanroom is lost as well. It wouldn't be surprising if Tuuri and Reynir had to strictly ration their mask time to the most clearly and imminently dangerous situations and still had to hope to find more filters somewhere along the way.
Post by: Róisín on September 16, 2017, 05:40:28 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on September 16, 2017, 06:58:02 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on September 16, 2017, 08:03:33 AM
How do you come to that latter statement? The people who have to leave the cleansed areas get recruited out of the immune, if at all possible, and given the limited distance (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=437) and time the Rash can travel (and infect) outside a host body, (known) non-immune walk around their homes sans mask (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=711) all the time. It's the special circumstances of this expedition that has put two non-immune persons into Rash's larder (and another onto the trip to Mora).
First, if you give a look at the end of the previous page, where the discussion of Reynir not wearing a mask actually started, I pointed out it wasn't the first time Reynir or Tuuri were outside without their masks and the possible distance factor before anyone else did (which means that yes, I understood that Onni and Tuuri's old home was far from danger enough to not require masks for non-immunes); I know I frequently miss important stuff, but this I had actually noticed.
As for the time span non-immunes may need to wear masks, almost 24/7 was probably an exaggeration on my part. However, I don't entirely agree that this expedition has special circumstances. On one hand, I do agree that Tuuri and Reynir were probably up to very recently sharing a limited resource that had just barely been planned for Tuuri, and that it needed to be rationed. On the other, I'd be surprised if Tuuri was the first non-immune to be out in the Silent World on the long term. If anything, I'll point out that she and Reynir are being kept safe according to a pre-existing protocol and that the stingy quartet got their hands on a second-hand vehicle that contained decontamination necessities.
EDIT: Remembered something else later: Chapter 10 has a mention of a rule against leaving non-immune people in the field without an immune for protection, which Tuuri needs to remind Mikkel about.
Post by: JoB on September 17, 2017, 11:52:57 AM
On the other, I'd be surprised if Tuuri was the first non-immune to be out in the Silent World on the long term. If anything, I'll point out that she and Reynir are being kept safe according to a pre-existing protocol and that the stingy quartet got their hands on a second-hand vehicle that contained decontamination necessities.Well, we've been shown what situations the existing protocols primarily apply to, haven't we? Non-immunes traveling from one safe place to another, being subjected to decon "just in case" as they enter Outer Mora, emergency mask handout when the Dalahästen got torn open. The Danish Reclamation Effort of Y80 (that the cat-tank likely was a part of) was an effort sufficiently close to "all in" that it killed their desire to have another try for ten years straight. Tuuris flashback that Finnish villages are being held safe with "simple measures", yet can occasionally be overrun - by grossling attacks, obviously - and entirely annihilated. And that rule about non-immunes needing an immune guard "in the field" at all times first and foremost proves that immunes are of severely limited use in a truly long term presence in the Silent World.
EDIT: Remembered something else later: Chapter 10 has a mention of a rule against leaving non-immune people in the field without an immune for protection, which Tuuri needs to remind Mikkel about.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on September 23, 2017, 02:49:02 PM
i was going to say it was a bit of good fortune that they found a place that seemed to be in good shape, but when i look back at page 312... http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=312
their odds would have been better if he found a "crap building" i think :-\
Post by: Dilandu on September 24, 2017, 10:25:09 AM
so... folks... taking bets on whether the house emil found is infested.
i was going to say it was a bit of good fortune that they found a place that seemed to be in good shape, but when i look back at page 312... http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=312
their odds would have been better if he found a "crap building" i think :-\
Well, it's always possible that even if the house is infested, it could be infested by something relatively small and harmless... or even not outright hostile, like Cthulhund...
Post by: JoB on September 24, 2017, 02:11:31 PM
Well, it's always possible that even if the house is infested, it could be infested by something relatively small and harmless...Or even smaller and not quite as harmless (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mold_health_issues) ...
Post by: Hukka on September 24, 2017, 09:45:34 PM
Post by: Dilandu on September 24, 2017, 11:59:27 PM
I must say I am quite impressed with Emil; setting up the chairs to keep the heat focused on Lalli. I do worry that 90+ year old fabric may be more flammable than the fuel he uses to start his fires with!
Doubt that... not in relatively wet conditions.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on September 25, 2017, 01:35:28 AM
I'm dead serious. TPK; rocks fall, everyone dies.
Post by: Dilandu on September 25, 2017, 02:48:30 AM
With each passing page the more and more I hope sleipnope kills these 5 characters.[except for Sigrun, she cool]
I'm dead serious. TPK; rocks fall, everyone dies.
The main irony of the whole Sleipnope situation that it is probably the first known Rush entity, which are at least partially willing to communicate... and the only one who could understood it is Lalli. Whom have enormous communication problems himself.
I'm not suggesting that the whole conflict may be resolved over the nice cup of tea, but Sleipnope main voice seems at least sane enough to make observations and logical conclusions. So, it may probably at least explain, why exactly it didn't like the expedition so much, that it is willing to trail them for considerable distance and put considerable resources against them (it seems that the controllig ghosts aren't exacly have infinite reserves...)
Post by: Sc0ut on September 25, 2017, 06:06:42 AM
I must say I am quite impressed with Emil; setting up the chairs to keep the heat focused on Lalli. I do worry that 90+ year old fabric may be more flammable than the fuel he uses to start his fires with!
He also placed Lalli's head so close to the stove/fireplace that he can easily get burned if he moves, or have sparks and burning wood fall in his hair... it's actually really uncomfortable to look at for me. Oh well, can't have them all.
With each passing page the more and more I hope sleipnope kills these 5 characters.[except for Sigrun, she cool]
I'm dead serious. TPK; rocks fall, everyone dies.
Why?
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on September 25, 2017, 06:25:58 PM
Quote
Why?
I can't take it anymore
Why?
You wanna know why I hope everyone but sigrun dies?
Because they all deserve to die.
They accepted a suicide mission to start with. They got themselves into deeper s*** by going after the serum. And on top of all that even when they were faced with fixing their issues and problems AFTER A CHARACTER COMMITTED SUICIDE? They go right back to goofie antics. No introspection, no questions about 'why are we f***ing up right now', no deeper searching even after a team mate dies. No one even mentioned tuuris name. No one talked about what happened. No one. F***ING NO ONE. NOT EVEN CARING EMIL LOOKS SAD. The only one i'd expect to not be to shaken up is sigrun because ya know she's the most experienced. But she's being written as if this has never happened before and mikkel is suddenly 'in charge'. It's like minna forgot the characterization behind them.
It's like watching a gaggle of idiots s*** their pants and then we go 'this is a nice story.'
But that's not my real problem right now, do you wanna know my real problem with ssss right now?I just did a reread, and I'll list some things that I saw
1.The cure is implied to cause brain death.
2.The rash has a metaphysical element to it
3.The info page talking about infection and how it affects an individual
4.Magical healing on the soul via another info page
I could see it all coming together. Hints being dropped. The climax would be at the church where tuuri would live in the face of impossible odds, the crew would pull through against everything they had been placed against. Reynir would finally prove himself as being an incredible mage. Because that's what this story is about a rag tag group of idiots overcoming the impossible. Overcoming the incredible weight of the world against them.
But then, the nine page update happened. And it stopped making any sense.
And I've never felt so disappointed and insulted. The serum line that minna had written so much about, you know that thing that got them into this mess to begin with? GONE. Tuuri going through a deep introspection and realizing she was wrong? GONE. Any kind of team work to overcome this? f***ING TRASHED LMAO. Go back and reread that 9 page update and come back to me. Tell me that has some emotional impact. It was just a quick 'tuuris infected, oh whoops tuuris dead lul.'
We are literally reading a story about a group of idiots who did something stupid and aren't confronting their mistakes.
It's like when you tell someone 'don't do that' then they do it and were supposed to feel bad for them? I'm supposed to feel bad for these characters now who f***ed up and aren't admitting it? Then yes, they deserve death. They all deserve to die in pain and agony.
And the worst part?I have to sit here quietly because most of you all will go 'oh they are deeply flawed thats all!'You know? That same sad minnion response when confronted with a legitimate criticism about the comic? You know the one everyone always give and for some reason dozens of people agree with on disqus?!?!?!?! And I'm supposed to sit here and just be quiet?
I feel as if minna passed us all cards and y'all are to busy making puns or posting fluff to look at the cards minna has passed and realize they don't make any sense anymore.
f*** me, what is there left to say anymore?
Post by: Ragnarok on September 25, 2017, 07:25:15 PM
Why?
You wanna know why I hope everyone but sigrun dies?
Because they all deserve to die.
What the--
They go right back to goofie antics. No introspection, no questions about 'why are we f***ing up right now', no deeper searching even after a team mate dies. No one even mentioned tuuris name. No one talked about what happened. No one. F***ING NO ONE. NOT EVEN CARING EMIL LOOKS SAD.
Do not assume the immediate reaction of anyone after someone they know committed suicide is 'how are things going wrong'. People are not automatons, and refusing to display grief is a common reaction.
It's like watching a gaggle of idiots s*** their pants and then we go 'this is a nice story.'
I'm sorry you feel that way.
But that's not my real problem right now, do you wanna know my real problem with ssss right now?I just did a reread, and I'll list some things that I saw
1.The cure is implied to cause brain death.
2.The rash has a metaphysical element to it
3.The info page talking about infection and how it affects an individual
4.Magical healing on the soul via another info page
I could see it all coming together. Hints being dropped. The climax would be at the church where tuuri would live in the face of impossible odds, the crew would pull through against everything they had been placed against. Reynir would finally prove himself as being an incredible mage. Because that's what this story is about a rag tag group of idiots overcoming the impossible. Overcoming the incredible weight of the world against them.
But then, the nine page update happened. And it stopped making any sense.
Or, you might consider, it stopped following the usual story conventions. We all saw it coming because that's how things go in stories. But it doesn't have to go that way, and Minna decided on a different route than the one we all thought would happen.
Go back and reread that 9 page update and come back to me. Tell me that has some emotional impact. It was just a quick 'tuuris infected, oh whoops tuuris dead lul.'
Don't know about you, but it still retains impact for me.
It's like when you tell someone 'don't do that' then they do it and were supposed to feel bad for them? I'm supposed to feel bad for these characters now who f***ed up and aren't admitting it? Then yes, they deserve death. They all deserve to die in pain and agony.
So, in your world, people who act like most humans deserve to die horribly. Good to know.
And the worst part?I have to sit here quietly because most of you all will go 'oh they are deeply flawed thats all!'You know? That same sad minnion response when confronted with a legitimate criticism about the comic? You know the one everyone always give and for some reason dozens of people agree with on disqus?!?!?!?! And I'm supposed to sit here and just be quiet?
No, you clearly aren't, as you are posting quite loudly here.
People. aren't. perfect. They are not going to react the same way as you might. Sorry if that strains your suspension of disbelief.
f*** me, what is there left to say anymore?
Goodbye? Because you don't seem to be enjoying reading this anymore. Perhaps a clean break with the community here would be best for both parties.
Post by: Róisín on September 25, 2017, 07:44:24 PM
A lot of the storytelling is in the art as well as the words, and following the expressions and body language of the characters adds a whole dimension of emotion and reaction to what we get from the words. I think the characters are learning and growing, just slowly, as in real life. Most people don't have abrupt epiphanies which cause them to suddenly change their attitudes and presumptions and alter the way they live and how they perceive and interact with other people. When that does happen it tends to be the result of things that shake up their lives forever. And it isn't always good change. Gotta watch those epiphanies: it's as likely that someone will decide that they really do hate everybody as it is for them to decide that they love their fellows and from now on it will all be sunshine, rainbows and cute puppies.
We've been following this tale for years, so to us it seems as if the story has been going on forever, but to the characters it has been maybe between two and three months. Most of that time has been passed in the level of action and stress that precludes introspection, or the level of falling in a heap after said stressful action that just gets you through to the next day. I think they are learning from their experiences, just that the tale is being told in a way that is more European than American, a way that assumes the readers are capable of understanding subtle hints and allusions and are content to watch the story develop rather than having everything resolved in an hour-long episode with no loose ends. More classical storytelling than modern, which is an odd fit with the graphic novel format. Rather like how the writing of, say, Jon Inouye is in novel format, but would work better as a comic, had such been a possible medium for serious storytelling back when he was writing. But I digress.
And one final element: I think Minna is still learning. This is her second full-length work. It's easy to forget that this artist and storyteller is young, I believe only in her mid-twenties, and very few artists, storytellers, musicians, sculptors, poets or whatever have completely mastered their craft by that age. We are watching a work in progress, not viewing a mature and finished masterpiece. Her timing isn't perfect yet, nor her understanding of emphasis, and of how heavily points have to be made before most of the audience can understand them. I think that in trying to avoid the kind of heavy-handed storytelling that comes with a laugh track and a complete biography of every character she has perhaps veered too far into subtlety.
But that's just my take on it. I like a subtle story, and I like a puzzle story where the reader has to work to figure out what is actually going on, and I love detail, but hate to be spoonfed that detail as if I were too stupid and impatient to follow the tale at the pace the author sets. I'll wait and see how it pans out in the end before I form a final opinion.
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on September 25, 2017, 08:53:55 PM
Goodbye? Because you don't seem to be enjoying reading this anymore. Perhaps a clean break with the community here would be best for both parties.Sorry if I came off as harsh. I've been here since day one with ssss. I was in the early days of aRTD. I left for a while and came back at chapter 10.
It just hurts me man, minnas stories have been a part of my life at this point. I can't just give up on ssss yet. I've invested far to much time in it. And I just don't like the way the story is going and it hurts man.
It hurts so much.
Post by: thorny on September 25, 2017, 09:12:40 PM
I'll wait and see how it pans out in the end before I form a final opinion.
This.
We have no idea where Minna's going with this story. That's not bad telling. That's good telling. She doesn't have to do plot number 6B where everyone can see what the outcome is bound to be. I'm a lot more likely to feel betrayed by a storyteller who does fit everything into the standard tropes than by one who doesn't.
And I think that stopping where they were to sit down and hash out all their emotions and all their previous mistakes would have been, to put it mildly, not a bright idea. They're not sitting around a table doing an RPG. They're in a hostile environment, with enemies chasing them, and out of contact with their pickup crew, which will presumably not wait forever. Whatever state they're in emotionally, if they're going to have any chance of living they have to squash it down for now, so they can get up and move.
(Not to mention that they did take the time, and the energy, for a funeral service. And we don't know who said what while they were doing that; it hasn't been shown.)
Post by: |Yucca| on September 25, 2017, 10:01:07 PM
Not to mention that they did take the time, and the energy, for a funeral service. And we don't know who said what while they were doing that; it hasn't been shown.
I think this a thing with SSSS that bothers me the most. Certain key points in the story, especially times when a debriefing should have happened, haven't been shown for some reason. Not everything has to be shown, but leaving out story critical moments in favor of showing the team doing laundry just feels a bit weird.
Don't get me wrong though, I like that mundane tasks are shown too, gives depth to the story. But since Minna's page budget clearly is lavish, it feels even more strange to leave out important stuff.
Post by: Dilandu on September 26, 2017, 12:14:16 AM
accepted a suicide mission to start with. They got themselves into deeper s*** by going after the serum. And on top of all that even when they were faced with fixing their issues and problems AFTER A CHARACTER COMMITTED SUICIDE? They go right back to goofie antics. No introspection, no questions about 'why are we f***ing up right now', no deeper searching even after a team mate dies.
Well, maybe exactly because it was ACTUALLY a poorly-planned expedition from the beginning, huh?
Quote
No one talked about what happened. No one. F***ING NO ONE. NOT EVEN CARING EMIL LOOKS SAD. The only one i'd expect to not be to shaken up is sigrun because ya know she's the most experienced. But she's being written as if this has never happened before and mikkel is suddenly 'in charge'. It's like minna forgot the characterization behind them.
They are caught transport-less and protection-less in a very dangerous conditions, with the situation out of control and developed absolutely unexpectedly. No one of their previous assumptions involved a bunch of ghosts & eight-legged horse - which for some reason took a grudge against them, and not only trailing them, but also is capable of RATIONAL thinking and actual planning. Basically the dangers of the whole situation just leaped from ten to twenty points on Sweden railroad scale. They simply have no time or place to just sat around and reflect.
The serum line that minna had written so much about, you know that thing that got them into this mess to begin with? GONE.
Sigh.
1st: Even the current un-workable serum is truly enormous progress for Known World anti-Rush programs.
2st: The fact that Denmark was able to came so close to workable solution just in a few weeks basically serves as a clear hint that other countries may be more lucky, and there are other peoples in other parts of the world. With WORKING solution.
3st: Even if serum could not work as protection for humans, it could possibly be weaponized as chemical weapon against trolls and giants. After all, they require brains to stay put... and serum KILL THE BRAIN. No need to reclaim areas by force - just disperce the serum aerosole (better from the air) and wait until most of Rush creatures would drop dead.
Post by: Kis on September 26, 2017, 12:44:36 AM
I'm sorry that this story made you feel that way. I think you've done great sharing these emotions instead of keeping them to yourself (even if not all of us agree with your opinion). I know what a huge impact SSSS can have on us, so discovering that said impact wasn't all that great was... well, pretty horrible. However, I hope you'll stay and maybe some day will enjoy how the story goes again. And thank you for making me think about what's been happening in comic from different point of view
Post by: MR_PLINKETT on September 26, 2017, 12:48:33 AM
MR_PLINKETT,
I'm sorry that this story made you feel that way. I think you've done great sharing these emotions instead of keeping them to yourself (even if not all of us agree with your opinion). I know what a huge impact SSSS can have on us, so discovering that said impact wasn't all that great was... well, pretty horrible. However, I hope you'll stay and maybe some day will enjoy how the story goes again. And thank you for making me think about what's been happening in comic from different point of view
I mean I'm not leaving, I'm gonna be here to the very last page that minna has posted. It's just some frustration I've been having for months now and I can't keep it inside me anymore. I just needed to get it out there even if it is toxic.
Post by: Róisín on September 26, 2017, 01:29:20 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on September 26, 2017, 07:19:27 AM
I don't know where you've been hanging out, but in my side of the fandom (which is mostly tumblr these days) many people felt outraged and even betrayed after Tuuri's death and some of the things that happened after. Heck, I'm not happy about it myself either. So while there are people who are supportive of the comic and Minna no matter what, there are definitely many others who criticize when they don't like something, and still read the comic (or cease to, in at least one case I know of).
For what's worth, I agree that more emotional displays from the remaining team would be welcome. I'm aware they are now focused on very basic survival in a dangerous situation, and simply can't afford doing too much depressive thinking, also some are possibly in shock. So while it makes total sense, the more this expressionless state continues, the more I feel it dehumanizes the characters a bit, or at least drags the comic in a much darker genre than what it says on the tin. It's one of the things I feel weird and conflicted about with SSSS, and part of it is because I can't tell if Minna does it on purpose or not. Has she deliberately labeled it as a "light-hearted adventure with elements of horror", knowing this would amplify the shock of what happens to Tuuri, or has the story gotten out of hand? Or, worst of all, does this still actually count as a light-hearted adventure in Minna's opinion?!
It's not the only thing that has bothered me in this way in SSSS. I had the same reaction to the page where the Icelandic coast guard sinks the civilian boat, and Minna's comment was to "not think about it too much", because she doesn't intend to delve into ethical matters with this story. But putting heavily ethically loaded events in your story and then refusing to address them is... well, not the most mature of choices in my opinion.
But like Róisín said, it's unfair to judge a work of art that is still incomplete. I'll probably keep reading to the end, even though the comic has already made me raise an eyebrow or three. Imo it's really interesting to see what choices Minna will make from now on, even if we end up getting something very different than we hoped for. I hope you stick around too, and maybe find some fanfic that takes the story in a direction you're happier with. There is a lot of fix-it out there!
I think this a thing with SSSS that bothers me the most. Certain key points in the story, especially times when a debriefing should have happened, haven't been shown for some reason. Not everything has to be shown, but leaving out story critical moments in favor of showing the team doing laundry just feels a bit weird.
Don't get me wrong though, I like that mundane tasks are shown too, gives depth to the story. But since Minna's page budget clearly is lavish, it feels even more strange to leave out important stuff.
This has frustrated me as well for a while now. I don't like to be spoon-fed all the information, but for one's brain to fill in a missing sequence, that sequence has to have (shown) consequences. For instance, if I see Reynir consistently avoiding Mikkel, I can deduce something happened between them, or at least something significant happened in Reynir's mental state (new information? Shift of perspective? definitely *something*, at least), even if it hasn't been showed "on screen". But we never had anything like that with any missing scenes - they just don't exist, left no impact whatsoever. The team acts like they never talked together about any of the emergency situations they've run into. And this is something I can't explain as good writing, no matter how much I try. I suppose it is one of the places where Minna's lack of experience shows.
Post by: Grade E cat on September 26, 2017, 09:05:55 AM
From what I've seen in TVTropes, many extremely popular long-runners suffer what is considered a decline in later installments, sometimes due to flaws that were there all along suddenly becoming obvious. It's sad when it happens, but I also think it's a mistake to assume that any given story is (no pun intended) immune to this phenomenon.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 26, 2017, 10:30:20 AM
The serum plotline was a possibility, and saving Tuuri could have worked on a story level thanks to that. Or at least I think so. It's certainly a possibility that I pushed for.
But it is also possible that this is not that kind of story.
If we draw back a bit, Tuuri's death is a logical consequence of the story set up. This isn't about fun time adventures - it's about survival. Tuuri died because she fundamentally didn't get that. Reality caught up to her.
There is however a certain mood clash because of that. On a page to page basis, the story is fairly comedy oriented.
Now, it is reproached to the characters that they have been fairly un-emotive about this, but consider this: what happened to Tuuri is normal to them. How many times has Sigrun seen members of her crew die in battle or from infections? How many people has Mikkel seen die as a medic? This is a direct shock to Lalli and Onni, who are direct family, and to Reynir who is a sheltered non-combatant - but how is it shocking to Sigrun and Mikkel that someone on their team has died? It's probably not very shocking at this point. From their perspective, there is a much bigger issue to deal with at the moment - getting out of this situation alive. To get caught up in emotions would only reduce their chances of survival. The prime example of this is Lalli, who by insisting in making sure that she had crossed jeopardized the team by wanting to go off by himself to do his ritual. With Emil following him, the team strength was actually cut in half. If Reynir had not been around, that would have left Mikkel and Sigrun at the complete mercy of the ghosts. Tuuri's death was sad, but this is the world they live in. Remember the title - Stand Still, Stay Silent. This is the philosophy of a hunted prey. Despite their relative success against monsters, this remains fundamentally the name of the game. The cat-tank is more accurately a mouse scurrying in a house of cats.
Minna was at a crossroad with Tuuri's ordeal. She considered not killing her, but she stayed her course because the story would have fallen apart otherwise. What this means has yet to become clear, has such we can thus assume that a considerable part of the story still lays hidden to us. The full ramifications of this event are still unclear. Combined with the slower pace of production, it has become very difficult to understand the direction the story is taking at this point.
Who knows. Maybe by the end of this arc we will be greeted by "end of prologue". Just as how the early stories were set up for the current story, there is nothing stopping this current story arc being the set up for a wider scope story arc in the future. At this point I can't see much immediate plot pay off for the ghost lady and her hospital. But that doesn't mean there won't be pay off down the road.
Post by: |Yucca| on September 26, 2017, 10:40:52 AM
This has frustrated me as well for a while now. I don't like to be spoon-fed all the information, but for one's brain to fill in a missing sequence, that sequence has to have (shown) consequences. For instance, if I see Reynir consistently avoiding Mikkel, I can deduce something happened between them, or at least something significant happened in Reynir's mental state (new information? Shift of perspective? definitely *something*, at least), even if it hasn't been showed "on screen". But we never had anything like that with any missing scenes - they just don't exist, left no impact whatsoever. The team acts like they never talked together about any of the emergency situations they've run into. And this is something I can't explain as good writing, no matter how much I try. I suppose it is one of the places where Minna's lack of experience shows.
Indeed. This became really evident after the field standoff. There was an enormous flying and talking firebird out of the blue, and for some reason all of the non-religious people just skipped that. Not a single mention of this clearly otherworldly phenomenon the following day. Emil wanted to ask Lalli about "that stuff", but that's pretty much all.
Post by: thorny on September 26, 2017, 11:39:51 AM
Now, it is reproached to the characters that they have been fairly un-emotive about this, but consider this: what happened to Tuuri is normal to them.
I think this is a valid and very important point.
These people aren't living in the world most of us are in, in which a death before extreme old age is considered to be something highly unusual that has gone wrong, and must be immediately dealt with as a fixable anomaly, or at least as something that requires the entire community to rally at length around the survivors most affected.
They're living in a world in which (as in most of actual human history) getting to die from old age is closer to the anomaly. That doesn't mean that people don't grieve. It does mean they've had a whole lot more practice at it, and are likely to react, especially on the visible surface, in different ways than those who don't expect anyone they know to die before old age are going to react.
-- as far as what is and isn't being shown: I wonder whether Minna might be so immersed in her world and her characters that she forgets that much of what she knows about it and about them isn't known to her readers. As has been pointed out, she's fairly new at this. I once did what I thought was a complete short-short set in a world that's been working in the back of my head for many years; but when I showed it to a friend, she thought it was nowhere near complete, that it needed much more detail. When I read it over again, I realized she was right; I can taste and smell that place by now, but there wasn't enough in there for anyone else to do so.
Another possibility, of course -- and this we can't know yet -- is that she does intend to give us this information; but has reasons not to give it to us until later.
ETA: and a third possibility is that she thinks the story may otherwise take too long to get where it's going, and is trying to speed up the action by leaving out a lot of discussion. Some people don't want to read anything that's got a lot of talking heads in it. It's hard, or more likely impossible, to please all possible readers.
Post by: Windfighter on September 26, 2017, 12:56:24 PM
Or, worst of all, does this still actually count as a light-hearted adventure in Minna's opinion?!
In Minnas defense she comes from Finland, which has produced at least one light-hearted book about a group of people setting off to kill themselves! She has also lived in Sweden which has produced at least one light-hearted book that started with a man trying to commit suicide in so many ways but constantly got interrupted. Our view of what is fun and games up here in the cold north is a little bit screwed (https://satwcomic.com/funny-movie) :P
And since Im commenting anyway, allow me to point out that we have at least been shown that Emil is being sad! First off, notice how he is standing next to the funeral!
(https://i.imgur.com/r4kM1RU.png)
His whole body language just yells "I am feeling sad about this". And he is also the only one actually looking at it.
Sigrun does however look sad a couple of panels later
(https://i.imgur.com/Jr8NfsM.png)
(which Mikkel takes note of and files under "Future BlackMail Materia"l), but then she gets rational because yeah, they really do need to get going.
And then we see Emil again looking pretty sad when he and Lalli are walking to catch up with the others
(https://i.imgur.com/bwhYgXU.png)
...Mikkel actually seems to be the only one who hasnt really reacted to this whole thing. Yes, they dont have very strong, visible reactions but as many have said already, this is a live-or-die situation theyre in right now. Hopefully we will see them react and talk about this later, when they are finally safe on the boat or in Iceland! I am at least hoping for a Lalli/Onni-bonding moment because of this.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, I wasnt even planning on getting caught up in this discussion so Im rolling out again now! -waves-
Post by: Dilandu on September 26, 2017, 01:04:58 PM
Anyway, sorry for the long post, I wasnt even planning on getting caught up in this discussion so Im rolling out again now! -waves-
Nothing to be sorry about, your post is basically an effective sum up of different point of views here.
Post by: Sc0ut on September 26, 2017, 03:27:30 PM
Post by: urbicande on September 26, 2017, 05:26:38 PM
3st: Even if serum could not work as protection for humans, it could possibly be weaponized as chemical weapon against trolls and giants. After all, they require brains to stay put... and serum KILL THE BRAIN. No need to reclaim areas by force - just disperce the serum aerosole (better from the air) and wait until most of Rush creatures would drop dead.
Actually, I'm thinking that the serum is what created the ghosts more than anything else. These are the people who had the serum. But even then they were harmless until leaftroll got mixed up in it (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=426) and THEN things changed (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=427). Maybe there was something special about one of the people who got the serum. Maybe they were a nascent mage (since magic seems to have come into the world about the same time as the Illness -- I've opined that they're connected before).
ETA: And in looking for the thread where I speculated on the magical nature of the Illness I found this old thread (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=110.0).
Post by: Windfighter on September 26, 2017, 06:11:44 PM
Windy, that's an interesting point about culture. Could you maybe share the titles of the "cheerful" books you mentioned?
I only knew the titles in Swedish, but after some googling I have now found them in English to make it easier for you peeps!
The Charming Mass Suicide (http://www.bonnierrights.fi/books/the-charming-mass-suicide/) (I did not manage to find a link that did not offer spoilers though, sorry about that)
A man called Ove (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Man_Called_Ove_(novel))
Both has been made into movies even, but the charming mass suicide has gotten very bad reviews. So I totally need to watch that one some day! After I have re-read both of the books that is.
Note to self: Locate a copy of The Charming Mass Suicide
Post by: Ragnarok on September 26, 2017, 06:31:42 PM
Oh God, Swedish and Finnish humor
We're going to all need therapy after SSSS is finished aren't we
Post by: Windfighter on September 26, 2017, 06:34:49 PM
It's good to remember that Minna is Scandinavian, so thanks for reminding us of that, Windy.
Oh God, Swedish and Finnish humor
We're going to all need therapy after SSSS is finished aren't we
...yes. yes, you are.
Post by: Hrollo on September 26, 2017, 06:41:57 PM
I always find it a bit presumtuous when the people who are in the process of no longer liking something seek validation, often in quite condemnatory language, from the people who still like it fine. This isn't a something that has truth value, you cannot prove through logic and reason that the comic is no longer good. It's just no longer good for you, and you won't change the mind of those who remain fan of it (no more than they will change your own mind back).
Post by: Róisín on September 26, 2017, 07:14:08 PM
Those who want a different story can always write their own, including the stuff they want to see, leaving out the stuff they don't. They might do it as AU fanfic,or, *gasp* go so far as to produce their own original work.
Post by: Sunflower on September 26, 2017, 07:14:47 PM
Well.. that's certainly one point of view, Plinkett.
I don't know where you've been hanging out, but in my side of the fandom (which is mostly tumblr these days) many people felt outraged and even betrayed after Tuuri's death and some of the things that happened after. Heck, I'm not happy about it myself either. So while there are people who are supportive of the comic and Minna no matter what, there are definitely many others who criticize when they don't like something, and still read the comic (or cease to, in at least one case I know of).
For what's worth, I agree that more emotional displays from the remaining team would be welcome. I'm aware they are now focused on very basic survival in a dangerous situation, and simply can't afford doing too much depressive thinking, also some are possibly in shock. So while it makes total sense, the more this expressionless state continues, the more I feel it dehumanizes the characters a bit, or at least drags the comic in a much darker genre than what it says on the tin. It's one of the things I feel weird and conflicted about with SSSS, and part of it is because I can't tell if Minna does it on purpose or not. Has she deliberately labeled it as a "light-hearted adventure with elements of horror", knowing this would amplify the shock of what happens to Tuuri, or has the story gotten out of hand? Or, worst of all, does this still actually count as a light-hearted adventure in Minna's opinion?!
It's not the only thing that has bothered me in this way in SSSS. I had the same reaction to the page where the Icelandic coast guard sinks the civilian boat, and Minna's comment was to "not think about it too much", because she doesn't intend to delve into ethical matters with this story. But putting heavily ethically loaded events in your story and then refusing to address them is... well, not the most mature of choices in my opinion.
But like Róisín said, it's unfair to judge a work of art that is still incomplete. I'll probably keep reading to the end, even though the comic has already made me raise an eyebrow or three. Imo it's really interesting to see what choices Minna will make from now on, even if we end up getting something very different than we hoped for. I hope you stick around too, and maybe find some fanfic that takes the story in a direction you're happier with. There is a lot of fix-it out there!
I like the way you phrase this, Sc0ut. I've felt a lot of dissatisfaction myself with the recent turn of the story, which has made me re-examine the overall emotional tone. Sometimes, like you, I wonder if this is Minna's idea of "light-hearted adventure." Because while there are moments of warmth, empathy, and acknowledgement of loss/sorrow (often via Emil, who seems to be going through a surprising amount of emotional growth considering how self-centered he came off originally), there are also a lot of interactions that just leave a sour taste in my mouth if we're meant to take them seriously. (Like Siv and Torbjorn's attitude towards their children.) And sure, we could interpret situations like that in a purely comic context where there aren't serious long-term consequences... but that's harder to do in a story where other things with Very Serious Consequences are happening all the time. (Not just Tuuri's death, but the Giant Firebird, Reynir's visions, etc.) I suppose this says more about me than Minna, but I find those empathy gaps hard to swallow.
And although this could be considered a natural consequence of a world where life can be "nasty, brutish, and short", literature going back thousands of years shows that even hardened warriors in many cultures shed a tear and spoke heartfelt words for their fallen comrades and relatives, once they weren't in the thick of battle. Look at the Iliad, or the Mahabharata.
Windfighter may have a point about Minna being Finnish. I remember listening to my first album by Varttina (a very cool folk-rock group from Finland) and observing that so many of the songs were about exile, loss, loneliness, or being alone in the gloomy forest. "Yes," my friend deadpanned. "Welcome to Finland." Maybe Finns have such high expectations for being stoic and silent in the face of pain that Minna assumes that's how people typically react?
I think this a thing with SSSS that bothers me the most. Certain key points in the story, especially times when a debriefing should have happened, haven't been shown for some reason. Not everything has to be shown, but leaving out story critical moments in favor of showing the team doing laundry just feels a bit weird.THIS really struck a chord with me.
Don't get me wrong, I like that mundane tasks are shown too, gives depth to the story. But since Minna's page budget clearly is lavish, it feels even more strange to leave out important stuff.
This has frustrated me as well for a while now. I don't like to be spoon-fed all the information, but for one's brain to fill in a missing sequence, that sequence has to have (shown) consequences. For instance, if I see Reynir consistently avoiding Mikkel, I can deduce something happened between them, or at least something significant happened in Reynir's mental state (new information? Shift of perspective? definitely *something*, at least), even if it hasn't been showed "on screen".
But we never had anything like that with any missing scenes - they just don't exist, left no impact whatsoever. The team acts like they never talked together about any of the emergency situations they've run into. And this is something I can't explain as good writing, no matter how much I try. I suppose it is one of the places where Minna's lack of experience shows.
This too.
-- as far as what is and isn't being shown: I wonder whether Minna might be so immersed in her world and her characters that she forgets that much of what she knows about it and about them isn't known to her readers. As has been pointed out, she's fairly new at this. I once did what I thought was a complete short-short set in a world that's been working in the back of my head for many years; but when I showed it to a friend, she thought it was nowhere near complete, that it needed much more detail. When I read it over again, I realized she was right; I can taste and smell that place by now, but there wasn't enough in there for anyone else to do so.
Another possibility, of course -- and this we can't know yet -- is that she does intend to give us this information; but has reasons not to give it to us until later.
ETA: and a third possibility is that she thinks the story may otherwise take too long to get where it's going, and is trying to speed up the action by leaving out a lot of discussion. Some people don't want to read anything that's got a lot of talking heads in it. It's hard, or more likely impossible, to please all possible readers.
I suppose we won't know which explanation is the best fit until the story ends... which at this rate could be well into the 2020s! (As long as it doesn't take us into Year Zero...)
Post by: Hrollo on September 26, 2017, 07:31:30 PM
When I was in the process of writing a novel, I had someone read an early draft of the first chapters. In my mind, what I had written was, while definitely on the somber side of thing, still comparatively tame and light compared to some of the stories I had read/watched from other people. My proofreader told me it was one of the darkest and most depressing things they had ever read. It hadn't occure to me that writing these chapters when I was both in an emotional dish and quite doubtful on my own skills as a writer had strongly colored my perception of what I had written — I thought it was tame because there was no way I could be talented enough to write something actually dark.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on September 26, 2017, 08:25:29 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on September 27, 2017, 02:33:04 AM
I feel this (https://satwcomic.com/funny-movie) is relevant to the issue at hand.
I would be careful about brushing everything under a thick stereotype of "haha, those crazy Nordics, am I right?!". While the Nordic countries do have their share of depressing cinema and weird children's stories, the Moomin books also come from there, and they're as far removed from cynicism as it gets. Even the suicide-themed books that Windy mentioned earlier don't actually have any completed suicide in them, and have happy endings (yes, I went and read the plots). So, Minna has managed to make an arguably darker thing than some of the first examples people think of to illustrate how "dark" Nordic media is.
And for a different approach: while it is true that the United States make a lot of gory horror movies, it doesn't mean their entire culture is dominated by gory horror. We shouldn't expect that from every US-made webcomic, especially not one that claims to be "a heart-warming family tale". See what I mean?
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on September 27, 2017, 03:20:11 AM
I would be careful about brushing everything under a thick stereotype of "haha, those crazy Nordics, am I right?!". While the Nordic countries do have their share of depressing cinema and weird children's stories, the Moomin books also come from there, and they're as far removed from cynicism as it gets. Even the suicide-themed books that Windy mentioned earlier don't actually have any completed suicide in them, and have happy endings (yes, I went and read the plots). So, Minna has managed to make an arguably darker thing than some of the first examples people think of to illustrate how "dark" Nordic media is.I linked to a comic made by a Scandinavian highlighting a trend in Scandinavian media and said that it was relevant to the discussion at hand, wherein someone had pointed out the same trend in Scandinavian media. How is that "brushing everything under a thick stereotype"?
And for a different approach: while it is true that the United States make a lot of gory horror movies, it doesn't mean their entire culture is dominated by gory horror. We shouldn't expect that from every US-made webcomic, especially not one that claims to be "a heart-warming family tale". See what I mean?
Also: while not every US-made webcomic has to be about gory horror, if one that claimed to be a "heart-warming family tale" had a section that had gory horror in it, would discussing how and why it had gone into the gory horror also be "brushing everything under a thick stereotype"?
Post by: Sc0ut on September 27, 2017, 04:25:48 AM
Also: while not every US-made webcomic has to be about gory horror, if one that claimed to be a "heart-warming family tale" had a section that had gory horror in it, would discussing how and why it had gone into the gory horror also be "brushing everything under a thick stereotype"?
Yes, if your only contribution would be "Well, it's an American webcomic".
Post by: Róisín on September 27, 2017, 04:28:06 AM
Up to that point the violence has been treated fairly lightly, in a sort of braggadocio-and-severed-heads-swinging-from-chariots way. Then you get the two young men confronting one another, each trying to talk the other out of it (but one has been tricked into giving his sacred oath to fight, the other is defending his helpless kindred just the other side of the border). They fight three days of formal setpiece duels at the ford, with no resolution. One has food, which he shares with his mate, the other has access to a healer, which he likewise shares. 'Their horses passed the nights in the same field, and their charioteers by the same fire'. Just to add to the tragedy, their two charioteers are brothers.
On the fourth day, they get serious. One is killed, and the one who killed him is completely shattered. His lament over his dead friend, the bit that starts: 'It was all play, all sport, until Ferdiad came to the ford' is one of the finest pieces of Irish epic poetry. But my point is that this incident is all the more poignant because for most of the epic the protagonists just man up and get on with it, because that's what you do when you are in an epic. There are moments of tenderness, some of them in Cuchullain's courtship of Emer, or 'The Tale of the Death of Cuchullain's One Son'; some in 'Deirdre of the Sorrows', which is one of the prequel tales to the Táin, but mostly these are subsumed in the action.
And I think that at present much of the open mourning and emotional debriefing of SSSS has been similarly been subsumed in the action. I think we will see some of it eventually, but not yet, because it would be unwise of the characters to do that stuff in the midst of fighting/running for their lives. Though I would be unsurprised if some of it came out between Mikkel and Sigrun, talking by the fire through the long dark nights...
There is a final bit to 'The Fight at the Ford', where the hero is collapsed mourning and bleeding over his dead friend, and his charioteer comes and shakes him and tells him to get moving if he wants to live, because 'The men of Ireland are coming for you now, and now that Ferdiad has been slain, it is no longer of single combat that they are thinking......'. Always the practicalities, just when one is settling down for a nice long angsty brood!
Post by: JoB on September 27, 2017, 09:30:52 AM
Maybe there was something special about one of the people who got the serum. Maybe they were a nascent mageAs a rule of thumb, in the places where the serum ghosts originated (Amalienborg, Kastellet, OUH), we had quite precisely one for every occupied bed; hence the estimates of 100% ghosts per "cured" patient in Y0 but <=1% of trolls from untreated infected.
Unless, in the middle of the Danish society breaking down in Y0, they managed to reserve entire emergency treatment centers for only "nascent mages" or whatever other novel subgroup, I don't see the serum being given to such a subset. Not to mention that the scientists developing it were shown not to have any such specialization in mind (remember the meeting and the military types grasping for no less that saving the nation?).
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 10:13:31 AM
As a rule of thumb, in the places where the serum ghosts originated (Amalienborg, Kastellet, OUH), we had quite precisely one for every occupied bed; hence the estimates of 100% ghosts per "cured" patient in Y0 but <=1% of trolls from untreated infected.
Unless, in the middle of the Danish society breaking down in Y0, they managed to reserve entire emergency treatment centers for only "nascent mages" or whatever other novel subgroup, I don't see the serum being given to such a subset. Not to mention that the scientists developing it were shown not to have any such specialization in mind (remember the meeting and the military types grasping for no less that saving the nation?).
Agreed, and we have basically no indications that mages even actually existed in Y0, far less that they were actually known. They may be completely Rash-induced anomaly.
Interesting question: is A the serum-induced ghost as well? Her church was clearly one of emergency hospitals, and there is something rather similar to the serum cans on the background of her memories...
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=574
Post by: urbicande on September 27, 2017, 10:18:13 AM
Agreed, and we have basically no indications that mages even actually existed in Y0, far less that they were actually known. They may be completely Rash-induced anomaly.
Interesting question: is A the serum-induced ghost as well? Her church was clearly one of emergency hospitals, and there is something rather similar to the serum cans on the background of her memories...
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=574
I really wish I could find my original post where I speculated on the Illness and magic. :) Because it HAS to be magic.
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 10:39:31 AM
I really wish I could find my original post where I speculated on the Illness and magic. :) Because it HAS to be magic.
Well, the Illness is clearly outside the physical realm at least partially. Far too bizzare effects, to explain by anything short of Clarktech ("any sufficiently advanced technology..." ;) ). But on the other hands, it is not completely outside the physical world also. The trolls and beasts required living brain to work; they are still living creatures which have at least some resemblance of metabolism as we know it. And all the Rash entites - including ghosts - are VERY susseptible to ultraviolet. So, it seems that even ghosts have "some physical parts", after all...
Post by: JoB on September 27, 2017, 11:40:07 AM
I really wish I could find my original post where I speculated on the Illness and magic. :) Because it HAS to be magic.The Rash, yes. The cure, no. The effects of the cure, only as far as it manages to actually change the mechanisms of the Rash for both the 1% who would otherwise have trollified and the 99% who would have just died.
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 11:44:12 AM
The Rash, yes. The cure, no. The effects of the cure, only as far as it manages to actually change the mechanisms of the Rash for both the 1% who would otherwise have trollified and the 99% who would have just died.
So, basically, what does the cure do? It stopped the effects of the Rash, it also stopped humans brain activity, but it doesn't outright kill humans. All the patients how recieved cure were still alive, when the facilities were abandoned by personnel.
But, after they died - their souls for some reason became trapped as ghosts? Despite the cure having pretty physical (not metaphysical) effect?
Post by: JoB on September 27, 2017, 12:32:10 PM
So, basically, what does the cure do? It stopped the effects of the Rash, it also stopped humans brain activity, but it doesn't outright kill humans.Ehhh, careful there. The developers confirmed the side effect to be "brain death (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=619)" (which is also the expected result of "stopping [all] brain activity", for that matter). Also, they said it stopped the progression of the Rash, not [all] its effects.
All the patients how recieved cure were still alive, when the facilities were abandoned by personnel.For whatever value of "alive" that doesn't get you hauled off to the morgue, yes. Of cause, with the side effect being brain death, we'll have to assume that the morgue was quite busy nonetheless.
But, after they died - their souls for some reason became trapped as ghosts? Despite the cure having pretty physical (not metaphysical) effect?... maybe. Since the doctors weren't mages, the other obvious possibility would be that their souls had turned into ghosts standing next to their still-barely-living bodies before death and simply nobody was able to see them there. All we know is that they didn't become murderghosts immediately (though that might still be what ultimately happened to the hospital staff).
Post by: thorny on September 27, 2017, 12:45:07 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on September 27, 2017, 12:52:42 PM
Sunflower, I think you're right about empathy, sorrow and grief for loss being part of the oldest tales. Look at the 'Epic of Gilgamesh'. And for that matter, the 'Táin'. When I do my yearly gig as storyteller at the Gumeracha Mediaeval Fair, I always save the 'Fight at the Ford' from the 'Táin' to tell around the fire in the evening, to the Viking Society guys who have been doing fighting displays during the day. I count it a bad year when I can't make them cry. That part of the tale is where the hero and his best friend since boyhood/coweth companion/soulmate find themselves as champions on opposite sides in a particularly bloody and vicious war.
Up to that point the violence has been treated fairly lightly, in a sort of braggadocio-and-severed-heads-swinging-from-chariots way. Then you get the two young men confronting one another, each trying to talk the other out of it (but one has been tricked into giving his sacred oath to fight, the other is defending his helpless kindred just the other side of the border). They fight three days of formal setpiece duels at the ford, with no resolution. One has food, which he shares with his mate, the other has access to a healer, which he likewise shares. 'Their horses passed the nights in the same field, and their charioteers by the same fire'. Just to add to the tragedy, their two charioteers are brothers.
On the fourth day, they get serious. One is killed, and the one who killed him is completely shattered. His lament over his dead friend, the bit that starts: 'It was all play, all sport, until Ferdiad came to the ford' is one of the finest pieces of Irish epic poetry. But my point is that this incident is all the more poignant because for most of the epic the protagonists just man up and get on with it, because that's what you do when you are in an epic. There are moments of tenderness, some of them in Cuchullain's courtship of Emer, or 'The Tale of the Death of Cuchullain's One Son'; some in 'Deirdre of the Sorrows', which is one of the prequel tales to the Táin, but mostly these are subsumed in the action.
And I think that at present much of the open mourning and emotional debriefing of SSSS has been similarly been subsumed in the action. I think we will see some of it eventually, but not yet, because it would be unwise of the characters to do that stuff in the midst of fighting/running for their lives. Though I would be unsurprised if some of it came out between Mikkel and Sigrun, talking by the fire through the long dark nights...
There is a final bit to 'The Fight at the Ford', where the hero is collapsed mourning and bleeding over his dead friend, and his charioteer comes and shakes him and tells him to get moving if he wants to live, because 'The men of Ireland are coming for you now, and now that Ferdiad has been slain, it is no longer of single combat that they are thinking......'. Always the practicalities, just when one is settling down for a nice long angsty brood!
My only quibble with such an approach is that those texts all come from warrior societies with codes of grieving - both public and private. I don't exactly expect Sigrun to tear off her coat, beat at her chest, claw her face and so on. Despite the return to a warrior structure in the case of Norway, I still think that there a lot of things that sets post-apocalyptic Norway apart from let's say Viking Age Norway. And I think the biggest thing that sets it apart is the relation people would have to fighting in such a world.
If in the past fighting was done for booty, sheeps women and glory, with a strong emphasis on homosocial behaviours, the current army is more or less a mix of pre-apocalypse army with commando features and cooler clothes. They are not fighting against other warriors, but against monsters. They are not raiding, but rather fighting a reconquista against a faceless enemy. There is often not enough of the dead to bring back and honour, if there is anything to bring back at all. Furthermore, due to the factor of contamination, those that come in contact with the monsters are almost immediately suspicious - so bodies are burned, buried, or disposed of far away from the public eye. As such, the general impression I get is that in this world people don't so much die as they disappear.
Consider two cases: the sequence where Tuuri was describing her childhood in the lake islands and Tuuri's own suicide. For the lake islands, even though the population of whole villages died, containing possibly people that they knew, all there was to signify their death was a red cross of the town's name. That town, and all it's inhabitants, had just vanished. Tuuri's own death mirrors this - she flees from her comrades and dies far away, with no body to be recovered.
I think this indicates a certain attitude - anyone can disappear. Today they are here, tomorrow they might be gone. I would not be surprised if there is a certain fundamental distance cultivated between people in such a context. In such a situation, what is there even to grieve? It's just another face gone.
This would also tie back into the survival thematic. Despite the state of current society, these battles are not a war anymore - it's survival, and this too changes the attitude one has toward death.
[...]
On the subject of the Cure and the Rash: doctors and scientist may have been able to design a mixture that either slows down or even stop the physical effects of the rash, but I am thinking perhaps the creation of ghosts could have been due to these scientists touching upon the core root of the problem.
I have held, for a while now, that the disease is both metaphysical and physical, biological and spiritual. But what comes first? Does it infect the soul first, which then leads to physical degeneration? Or is it physical corruption that finally rots the soul? When you see the first effects of the rash, could it be that is in fact just the outward sign of the soul infection.
If that's the case, then the cure that they found, a cure that simultaneously stops the physical signs of the disease but also causes brain death, could have been a form of Soul Amputation. Think Golden Compass. How they could have done this, I don't know, but all these ghosts could in fact be souls that have been artificially separated from their body and more or less condemned to a sort of earthly Limbo. With the soul out of the body, if the infection is indeed caused by a corruption of the soul, then the body would no longer be affected.
This is of course, pure speculation. My only support is thanks to the Mages' magic tricks, especially Onni, we have already established that a part of the soul can leave the body. It's not therefore that much of a stretch to think that you could separate a chunk of the soul from the body in such a setting.
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 12:59:36 PM
Ehhh, careful there. The developers confirmed the side effect to be "brain death (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=619)" (which is also the expected result of "stopping [all] brain activity", for that matter). Also, they said it stopped the progression of the Rash, not [all] its effects.
Er, on the page - http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=419
(http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=419)
- the note, left by medical personnel ninety years ago clearly states that they considered their patients at least formally alive and (at least in theory) capable of waking up. So, at least their vital functions remained.
For whatever value of "alive" that doesn't get you hauled off to the morgue, yes. Of cause, with the side effect being brain death, we'll have to assume that the morgue was quite busy nonetheless.
Well, as I mentioned above, medical personnel considered the return of some of their patients into consciousness as at least possible. Otherwise they hardly would left a note. Of course, it may be just the last, desperate hope... but this still means, that the restoring of brain functions was considered a probability.
All we know is that they didn't become murderghosts immediately (though that might still be what ultimately happened to the hospital staff).
The ghosts from Amalienborg seems to be relatively peaceful. One of them killed the wounded troll, and later attempted to touch Emil, but its unclear, was any harm actually intended or the ghost was actually confused about what exactly happened.
The Kastellet ghosts were clearly much more agressive, and the local fauna clearly knew to avoid the old medical facility. Which basically means, that those ghosts were... not very friendly for quite a lot of time. And they acted hostile against expedition almost immediately, noreover - they actually put a lot of efforts and resources in the destruction of expedition. Both groups of ghosts have the same year of origin, so the reasons of such difference in behavior is... unclear.
I have some speculation... Of course, it may be too far-fetched, but the note in Amalienborg stated, that the soldiers in Kastellet "abandoned their cause". Presumably, they abandoned the patients, too, to their death.
Of course, it is purely speculative, but maybe the reasons for the difference in behavior is, that the Amalienborg ghosts actually knew, that they weren't abandoned? That their medical personnel were actually intended to return but was unable to do that? So, that's why they are passive, non-agressive, and generally sit around and... wait for their caretakers to return?
And what if the Kastellet ghosts knew, that they actually WERE abandoned to death by the peoples who were supposed to protect them and care after them. Ninety years of nothing better to do than just feel betrayed and lost... pretty enough for anybody to develope at least some grunge against humanity as whole.
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 01:08:21 PM
If that's the case, then the cure that they found, a cure that simultaneously stops the physical signs of the disease but also causes brain death, could have been a form of Soul Amputation. Think Golden Compass. How they could have done this, I don't know, but all these ghosts could in fact be souls that have been artificially separated from their body and more or less condemned to a sort of earthly Limbo. With the soul out of the body, if the infection is indeed caused by a corruption of the soul, then the body would no longer be affected.
Must point out, that ghosts are at least partially material. They clearly don't like sunlight - considering that they are unable to cross even the small parts of illuminated area, the ultraviolet is probably VERY harmful to them (which shouldn't be a problem for completely non-coporeal creature). Also, they obviously have some movement restrictions - they are actually forced to walk across the distances (and not particulary fast) and it seems that they aren't able to detach from surface for long (i.e. they could jump, but they could not fly), so the gravity seems to work on them too.
And, there is also the "black speech" on the radio. It looks like the ghosts are actually emanating on radiowaves... which, again, are physical objects.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 27, 2017, 01:16:38 PM
Must point out, that ghosts are at least partially material. They clearly don't like sunlight - considering that they are unable to cross even the small parts of illuminated area, the ultraviolet is probably VERY harmful to them (which shouldn't be a problem for completely non-coporeal creature). Also, they obviously have some movement restrictions - they are actually forced to walk across the distances (and not particulary fast) and it seems that they aren't able to detach from surface for long (i.e. they could jump, but they could not fly), so the gravity seems to work on them too.
And, there is also the "black speech" on the radio. It looks like the ghosts are actually emanating on radiowaves... which, again, are physical objects.
In this case my spiritual and physical dichotomy is inadequate, because it is clear that soul, spirits and so on have a definite physicality to them. Or at the very least, it actively interacts with physical things.
Or rather, when I say spiritual, it should not be read as immaterial. It has some sort of consistency to it - it's just not physical in the traditional sense.
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 01:35:31 PM
In this case my spiritual and physical dichotomy is inadequate, because it is clear that soul, spirits and so on have a definite physicality to them. Or at the very least, it actively interacts with physical things.
Or rather, when I say spiritual, it should not be read as immaterial. It has some sort of consistency to it - it's just not physical in the traditional sense.
This is so confusing... O_O And probably impossible to explain without quantum effects (which are almost as bad as no explanation at all)...
Post by: JoB on September 27, 2017, 01:43:52 PM
Eventually there wouldn't have been enough living left to deal with hauling dead bodies off to the morgue.Well, of course, or else the expedition wouldn't have had any bodies to find outside the morgues in the first place. Nonetheless, as long as you can bring ill people to be stuffed into the beds for treatment, you want to remove occupants that are beyond help from that many beds as well.
Er, on the page [ 418, actually (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=418) ] the note, left by medical personnel ninety years ago clearly states that they considered their patients at least formally alive and (at least in theory) capable of waking up. So, at least their vital functions remained.Whether the writer was actually medical personnel is unclear - Amalienborg is [in our time and reality] a royal palace, with a royal guard complete with capacities to perform emergency treatment to be sure, but not a medical facility, or likely to be converted into a public makeshift one. Also, when you give out a last-ditch-effort medication, it might not be wise to tell the palace guard that said medication is rather likely to make him actually commit regicide. ;)
However, the important part here is that the note states outright what the reason was for the non-ill to leave in spite of the ill still being alive at that time: They were running out of food and had to go looking for more, and apparently did not return though they wanted to.
And what if the Kastellet ghosts knew, that they actually WERE abandoned to death by the peoples who were supposed to protect them and care after them. Ninety years of nothing better to do than just feel betrayed and lost... pretty enough for anybody to develope at least some grunge against humanity as whole.That's certainly a possibility, and has been discussed before. Also, Kastellet was/is the headquarters of the Danish homeland defense and one of the Danish intelligence agencies, which is a little less of a philantropic community from the get-go ...
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 01:50:26 PM
However, the important part here is that the note states outright what the reason was for the non-ill to leave in spite of the ill still being alive at that time: They were running out of food and had to go looking for more, and apparently did not return though they wanted to.
That's exactly what I means)
That's certainly a possibility, and has been discussed before. Also, Kastellet was/is the headquarters of the Danish homeland defense and one of the Danish intelligence agencies, which is a little less of a philantropic community from the get-go ...
Also possible, but frankly, I doubt that Kastellet's ghosts are chasing the crew just because they didn't have proper papers to cross the borders. And it is clearly unclear (sorry for the pun) how much exactly ghosts mantain of their human personality. Currently we have only two ghosts, capable of more or less intelligent communications - A and Sleipnope - and both of them aren't exactly average ghosts (not to mention that Sleipnope is actually a geshtalt, and it may boost its brain activity a bit).
Post by: Vafhudr on September 27, 2017, 02:07:38 PM
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 02:24:56 PM
Probably not much personality or humanity left. Whatever they had as probably decayed into pretty basic emotions, reflected in their own formlessness.
Still, the Sleipnope is clearly capable of rational thinking. It may have a problem with motivations, but it is clearly capable to analyse situation, make logical conclusions, formulate tactics and even mantain more-or-less sensible communications with humans.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 27, 2017, 02:28:25 PM
The only comparable thing we have seen so far is the psychic attack that precedes a giant's attack, such as Lalli's scene on the train. It's something like that, except without a body.
Or at least, that's what I believe.
It's unclear.
Post by: Dilandu on September 27, 2017, 02:38:27 PM
I think the Sleipnope is a separate phenomenon from the smaller ghosts. I think it's either the ghost of a beast or a giant, or some sort of ghostly mutation.
The only comparable thing we have seen so far is the psychic attack that precedes a giant's attack, such as Lalli's scene on the train. It's something like that, except without a body.
Or at least, that's what I believe.
It's unclear.
My point is, Sleipnope is the only beast/troll/ghost so far, clearly capable of rational thinking. It is not mindlessly reacting, and not even just being cunning. It is evaluating the situation and making conclusions. And - able to communicate, more or less rationally.
I agree, that the psychic attack in the train have similarities, but this attack wasn't... rational action. The Sleipnope is rational, albeit in its own frame of referrence. Which is actually strange, because it is clearly a geshtalt of large number of entites - and impressed on horse brain. Frankly, the horses aren't the smartest of animals around, so the supernatural components of Sleipnope must actually be working pretty hard in unison to just compensate for the lack of neurons...
Post by: Róisín on September 27, 2017, 07:26:31 PM
'Cattle die, kin die,
Every man is mortal.
The one thing that is never lost
Is the worth of a life lived well.'
That quote is from the Hávamál, as I'm sure you recognise. For those who don't, it's a collection of precepts and life advice from the earlier Nordic culture. The sagas suggest that they regarded stoicism in the face of adversity as a virtue, and tended to deal with death and loss by stubborn endurance and grim humour.
Whereas my own Celtic culture, from which comes the Táin, was much more given to open expression of emotion, often in formally ornate language because wordskill was at least as highly regarded as swordskill, and the compleat champion was expected to be able to win a battle and then compose a poem about it, or create extempore a blistering satire upon his enemies, but they still regarded toughness, coping and endurance as virtues.
And anent the 'homosocial' definition: another factor of the Celtic social structure was that women were prominent. Warriors were not invariably men - indeed Cuchullain and Ferdiad meet because they both went to the famous school of war in what is now Scotland, which was run by a trio of female warriors. The invading army in the Táin is actually that of a woman ruler, Medb or Maeve, who is considerably more badass, and far more aggressive than the Ulster king she is invading. She is still a woman: she has ten kids and a husband, but she was dangerous. Even today, people treat her grave with cautious respect. It is still traditional for visitors to bring a small stone to add to her mound, which is quite impressive.
Way back early in the Forum, there were some interesting discussions around these subjects, but I'm afraid I don't remember where. I do remember, though, that one of the participants was Laufey.
Post by: Vafhudr on September 27, 2017, 09:27:13 PM
Vafhudr: that's an interesting line of thought. But I wouldn't expect Sigrun to emote loudly or obviously, both for the reasons you state concerning how not only individuals but whole villages can disappear without warning, and death would be a constant part of their lives, but because their folk seem to have gone back culturally to their Nordic Pagan roots. Enough of the sagas and folktales from that culture would have been around in Year 0, perhaps especially in the Norwegian country areas, that the culture would have been pretty easy to reconstruct. It is possible, I think, to deduce the psychic edifice of a people quite thoroughly from their folktales, and that culture, while it accepted and understood strong emotion, did not encourage histrionics.
'Cattle die, kin die,
Every man is mortal.
The one thing that is never lost
Is the worth of a life lived well.'
That quote is from the Hávamál, as I'm sure you recognise. For those who don't, it's a collection of precepts and life advice from the earlier Nordic culture. The sagas suggest that they regarded stoicism in the face of adversity as a virtue, and tended to deal with death and loss by stubborn endurance and grim humour.
Whereas my own Celtic culture, from which comes the Táin, was much more given to open expression of emotion, often in formally ornate language because wordskill was at least as highly regarded as swordskill, and the compleat champion was expected to be able to win a battle and then compose a poem about it, or create extempore a blistering satire upon his enemies, but they still regarded toughness, coping and endurance as virtues.
And anent the 'homosocial' definition: another factor of the Celtic social structure was that women were prominent. Warriors were not invariably men - indeed Cuchullain and Ferdiad meet because they both went to the famous school of war in what is now Scotland, which was run by a trio of female warriors. The invading army in the Táin is actually that of a woman ruler, Medb or Maeve, who is considerably more badass, and far more aggressive than the Ulster king she is invading. She is still a woman: she has ten kids and a husband, but she was dangerous. Even today, people treat her grave with cautious respect. It is still traditional for visitors to bring a small stone to add to her mound, which is quite impressive.
Way back early in the Forum, there were some interesting discussions around these subjects, but I'm afraid I don't remember where. I do remember, though, that one of the participants was Laufey.
Haaa... I am always impressed at how you seem to have these quotes at the tip of your fingers.
As for homosociality, I was drawing from my own particular experience of reading the Illiad and ancient Greek culture more generally. I am not nearly as knowledgeable about Celtic culture, though it is my understanding that woman had more presence. I recall a passage, either from Caesar or Tacitus, about how in Gaul woman would often be consulted in matters of war or even participate themselves. What you were mentioning reminded me of all the psychodrama on display in the Illiad. That said, that's more me drawing from a different tradition. You are completely right in pointing out that this mind set is already present in nordic poetry and literature.
Is Laufey even still around?
Post by: Róisín on September 27, 2017, 10:35:27 PM
I've read the Classical epics, and while they are fine tales, they have more emphasis on what the men and the nobility are doing, and fewer human touches than I find altogether pleasing. Then, I grew up with the Celtic tales, where gender was less important in shaping what people did with their lives. The tales where it does have an effect are often tragedies. I mentioned the tale of Deirdre of the Sorrows, one of the remscéla or prequel tales to the Táin proper. Deirdre is born with fatal beauty, rather like the Classical Helen. The senior druid who is present at her birth wants to kill her straight away, having had a prophetic dream of the chaos, destruction and death that will happen because of her. But he is dissuaded, and the child is sent away to be raised in isolation as a future bride for the king, an act which was extremely uncharacteristic for that culture, and is a root cause of the destruction that follows. The druid names her Deirdre (storm, tempest, upheaval) so people will know she is dangerous.
The inevitable happens. She grows to adolescence having never met anyone but her nurse, her tutor and occasionally the king. She sees her first young man, falls in love and elopes with him and his brothers. They go into exile in what will eventually become Scotland, but are tricked into returning to Ireland where they are of course killed. That is the very bare bones of the story, but it is the reason why decades later, in the middle of the war of the Táin, one of the generals suddenly changes sides. He was Deirdre's uncle, and hasn't forgotten.
Eh, it's Irish folklore, everybody is related to everybody.
Post by: thorny on September 28, 2017, 12:10:06 AM
My point is, Sleipnope is the only beast/troll/ghost so far, clearly capable of rational thinking.
Isn't Reynir's pastor a sort of ghost?
Post by: Dilandu on September 28, 2017, 12:22:55 AM
Isn't Reynir's pastor a sort of ghost?
The A? Unclear; she was not shown in physical world yet.
Post by: Yuuago on September 28, 2017, 08:29:45 AM
Is Laufey even still around?
Around the forum? No. But she's still in the fandom, just in other venues.
I believe Laufey is still somewhere about. She does pop up from time to time. I rather miss her. Many people from the early days don't write so much anymore.
She might be reachable via PM if there's something you want to talk to her about.
Post by: Róisín on September 28, 2017, 09:42:16 AM
Post by: Solokov on September 28, 2017, 10:53:35 AM
The A? Unclear; she was not shown in physical world yet.
Had a thought, what if Pastor A is sleipnope....
Post by: Antillanka on September 28, 2017, 10:57:36 AM
Had a thought, what if Pastor A is sleipnope....
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/04/05/ackbar-xlarge_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BquzNJMpt-xp3nPuQhFJOjaI1_Bnx9uINdC_XC5LRmTXQ.jpg)
Post by: Dilandu on September 28, 2017, 10:59:33 AM
Had a thought, what if Pastor A is sleipnope....
Hardly. Completely different behavior and speech styles. The Sleipnope is obviously some kind of ghosts geshtalt, it have sort of multiple personality fusion (the main voice is constantly supplemented by the additional voices), or at least some sort of collegial decision-making. The A is clearly the single entity, with one distinc personality. And, Onni considered A as "not very strong", while the Sleipnope is obviously capable to gave him run for his money in fair fight.
Of course, it is still possible that all this is some pretty cunning plan, but frankly, if Sleipnope is able to SUCH kind of planning, no one from expedition would be alive by now.
Post by: Dilandu on September 28, 2017, 11:02:21 AM
Its a trap!
Possibly, but not very probable. I dare say - highly unlikely, because in that case the whole situation became rather sensless. It is possible, of course, that both Sleipnope and A are parts of some grand strategy, but the question arise - who is the mastermind? The "it", mentioned by Onni?
Post by: JoB on September 28, 2017, 11:09:35 AM
Had a thought, what if Pastor A is sleipnope....Sleipnope's the product of a ghost the team rustled at either Kastellet or Amalienborg, thus presumably does not actually have much of a religious background. While I wouldn't put it above Sleip to masquerade as someone and lie 'til the paint comes off the wall, it should be nontrivial to fool Onni (who is expecting such tricks from "spirits", yet pronounced A weak/harmless after a while) and keep Black Speech and the secondary voices hidden. Not to mention the question of "why would it?".
Post by: Solokov on September 28, 2017, 11:44:25 AM
"why would it?".
Why wouldn't it? Sleipnope has shown disdain and malice towards the living, masquerading as a nonviolent spirit could bring about an end to its goal... Whatever that is.
Post by: Dilandu on September 28, 2017, 12:15:12 PM
Why wouldn't it? Sleipnope has shown disdain and malice towards the living, masquerading as a nonviolent spirit could bring about an end to its goal... Whatever that is.
Firsl of all, its currently unclear, has it disdain against living at all, or against someone exactly. Let's not forget, that the Sleipnope threats (when it attempted to communicate) were pretty personified. So, it may actually hold a more direct grunge against someone in team for some reasons. After all, ghosts that formed Sleipnope clearly put a lot of efforts in trailing the team. And, considering how pathetic they looked after failed attack -
-http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=658 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=658) -
(and let's not forget that horror/cute scene when they hide inside the car... http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=784 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=784) ...generally looking tired and miserable)
- this little journey isn't exactly all fun and relaxations for Sleipnope either. This is hard, resource-draining, determined effort. And Sleipnope is capable of rational thinking, don't forget that. It wouldn't do that, if it haven't got some kind of rational explanation for its action.
masquerading as a nonviolent spirit could bring about an end to its goal... Whatever that is.
Maybe, but for what reason? At the moment, when pastor A appeared, Sleipnope planned to overrun the expedition by a herd of trolls/beasts, and for the Speilnope point of view their chances of survival was pretty low (its plan failed generally because of unforceen consequences like Raynir's runes, and force majeure in therms of Onni intervention). For what reason it may smultaneously start some sort of really complicated long-therm decoy scheme, if the expedition was supposed to be destroyed in near future?
Post by: Dilandu on September 28, 2017, 12:19:12 PM
Sleipnope's the product of a ghost the team rustled at either Kastellet or Amalienborg, thus presumably does not actually have much of a religious background. While I wouldn't put it above Sleip to masquerade as someone and lie 'til the paint comes off the wall,
It's pretty hard to lie, if you could not even hide your actual thoughts from the other side.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on September 28, 2017, 05:24:05 PM
Thanks, Yuuago! Nothing urgent at present, but good to know she is reachableShe responds to tumblr asks faster than forum pms.
Post by: JoB on September 28, 2017, 06:59:41 PM
Why wouldn't it? Sleipnope has shown disdain and malice towards the living, masquerading as a nonviolent spirit could bring about an end to its goal... Whatever that is.I guess what I actually meant is, why would Sleip put on the A show once and then keep hidden from Reynir (memento the empty church when he tried to contact A again)? If Sleip were trying to actually mislead him - and note that Reynir is still the only one betting any money on A -, wouldn't it give further encouragement, reinforce the lies, make some minor adjustments to counter random deviations, lead him more directly to the supposed demise? It's not like Reynir still searching for A and still not having the slightest which part of Denmark to search in in the first place is going to make him miss the ship (Sigrun and Mikkel will see to that) or flub a crucial rune.
Post by: Antillanka on September 29, 2017, 03:24:53 PM
Possibly, but not very probable. I dare say - highly unlikely, because in that case the whole situation became rather sensless. It is possible, of course, that both Sleipnope and A are parts of some grand strategy, but the question arise - who is the mastermind? The "it", mentioned by Onni?
Hehehe, I know it's highly unlikely, but the temptation to use the meme was far too huge XD !
Post by: Athena on October 11, 2017, 10:37:26 PM
(https://pre00.deviantart.net/5e21/th/pre/f/2017/284/8/1/750_by_luthnightbreeze-dbqanen.jpg)(https://orig00.deviantart.net/d5ca/f/2017/284/9/e/screen_shot_2017_10_11_at_20_28_58_by_luthnightbreeze-dbqanem.png)
Post by: Róisín on October 11, 2017, 10:38:45 PM
Post by: thorny on October 12, 2017, 09:25:02 AM
Post by: Dilandu on October 12, 2017, 04:13:36 PM
I noticed an interesting parallel between the latest page and page 750. The panel composition is eerily similar too. o_o
Hm... you are right; too much similarity for being just a coincidence!
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on October 15, 2017, 02:15:01 PM
Post by: Noodles on October 15, 2017, 02:22:18 PM
so, is the idea here that lalli's area is gone? seeing as the lilypads from his area are there, but none of the forest (or that little platform he normally stays on)?Reynir saw his area at the end of the last page he was in, it was just empty -- I think Lalli is kind of lost or something? Or far from where he should be.
Post by: Sc0ut on October 15, 2017, 05:12:06 PM
so, is the idea here that lalli's area is gone? seeing as the lilypads from his area are there, but none of the forest (or that little platform he normally stays on)?
Hmm, I wonder where have we previously seen water, mist, and a light on it... hmmmm (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=319)...
(the lilypads are somewhat of an obstacle in this theory since those normally grow in stagnant water, but we've seen weirder things in dreamland, I suppose)
Edit: I misread the question as "where's Lalli gone" or something of the sort :D His magespace obviously isn't gone, as Noodly noted. Lalli just woke up in the wrong place.
Post by: Róisín on October 15, 2017, 06:06:47 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on October 15, 2017, 07:39:53 PM
Hmm, I wonder where have we previously seen water, mist, and a light on it... hmmmm (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=319)...
(the lilypads are somewhat of an obstacle in this theory since those normally grow in stagnant water, but we've seen weirder things in dreamland, I suppose)
Edit: I misread the question as "where's Lalli gone" or something of the sort :D His magespace obviously isn't gone, as Noodly noted. Lalli just woke up in the wrong place.
You may well be correct about the precipitous drop and where it ends up. I'm excited to see.
I'd also like to see the frogs that use these lilypads. :3 Actually, we haven't seen any fauna in the Finnish mages' spaces, just the sheep in Reynir's. I would love to have dragonflies and frogs and cicadas accompanying this 'marsh' ecosystem. (Only enough mosquitoes to keep the frogs happy.)
Post by: Róisín on October 15, 2017, 09:45:14 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on October 15, 2017, 09:54:42 PM
Sounds good, Wavewright. I'd like it if they have birds.Aye, but are the birds expected to stick to their own Path?
Post by: Róisín on October 15, 2017, 11:27:30 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 16, 2017, 01:04:33 AM
Regarding what Mr Plinkett had to say some pages back...
Spoiler: Spoilered to avoid reopening old wounds • show
Are Pastor A and Sleipnope the same entity? Personally I don't think so, but it would be an interesting twist if they turned out to be different sides of the same personality. Pastor A (maybe a chaplain at the Fort?) is the human, compassionate side, and Sleipnope (at its core) is a manifestation of her suppressed grief and rage at what happened with the rash and at being stuck in limbo for 90 years. Reuniting them into a whole being would solve the situation by allowing her to move on to the afterlife.
...I pretty much just described the plot of The Dark Crystal didn't I? :'D
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on October 16, 2017, 01:17:45 AM
I haven't been in this thread for far too long!
Regarding what Mr Plinkett had to say some pages back...Spoiler: Spoilered to avoid reopening old wounds • show
Are Pastor A and Sleipnope the same entity? Personally I don't think so, but it would be an interesting twist if they turned out to be different sides of the same personality. Pastor A (maybe a chaplain at the Fort?) is the human, compassionate side, and Sleipnope (at its core) is a manifestation of her suppressed grief and rage at what happened with the rash and at being stuck in limbo for 90 years. Reuniting them into a whole being would solve the situation by allowing her to move on to the afterlife.
...I pretty much just described the plot of The Dark Crystal didn't I? :'D
"...By Reynir's
Post by: Dilandu on October 16, 2017, 01:28:21 AM
Are Pastor A and Sleipnope the same entity? Personally I don't think so, but it would be an interesting twist if they turned out to be different sides of the same personality. Pastor A (maybe a chaplain at the Fort?) is the human, compassionate side, and Sleipnope (at its core) is a manifestation of her suppressed grief and rage at what happened with the rash and at being stuck in limbo for 90 years. Reuniting them into a whole being would solve the situation by allowing her to move on to the afterlife.
Possible, but not likely. Pastor A seems to be the single entity with unique personality. Sleipnope is the geshtalt of several personalities with some sort of collective mind, that worked on compromises (remember it's "side" voices) between several points of view. Not much similarities here. And, Sleipnope obviously have "something" against either Reynit or Lalli, while Pastor A did not recognise Reynir at all.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 16, 2017, 02:17:14 AM
Possible, but not likely. Pastor A seems to be the single entity with unique personality. Sleipnope is the geshtalt of several personalities with some sort of collective mind, that worked on compromises (remember it's "side" voices) between several points of view. Not much similarities here. And, Sleipnope obviously have "something" against either Reynit or Lalli, while Pastor A did not recognise Reynir at all.
I assume in this scenario that 'Dark' A is the entity at the heart of Sleipnope, commanding all the rest of the absorbed souls, and that there's no communication between Dark A and Light A, the spirit that Reynir and Onni encountered.
But yes, I agree it's very unlikely.
"...By Reynir'shandsbraid, or else by none..."
Now I want Reynir to meet a female Reynir who can fly and has a pet... hang on a second! Is the blorptroll the SSSS universe version of Fizzgig!? XoX
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on October 16, 2017, 02:20:53 AM
Now I want Reynir to meet a female Reynir who can fly and has a pet... hang on a second! Is the blorptroll the SSSS universe version of Fizzgig!? XoXNo; Kitty is.
Post by: Dilandu on October 16, 2017, 03:01:27 AM
I assume in this scenario that 'Dark' A is the entity at the heart of Sleipnope, commanding all the rest of the absorbed souls, and that there's no communication between Dark A and Light A, the spirit that Reynir and Onni encountered.
Interesting theory, albeit I'm not sure that Sleipnope have a distinct "central" personality. I always assumed that it is sort "controlled by common agreement", I.e. its actions are the approximation of several personalities similar opinions.
This theory required one assumption; that Dark A and Light A became separated before the event after which Dark A (aka murderghosts) started to dislike Lalli and/or Reynir. Light A obviously doesnt even know who Reynkr are.
Post by: Róisín on October 16, 2017, 03:50:24 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on October 16, 2017, 03:59:33 AM
I haven't been in this thread for far too long!
Regarding what Mr Plinkett had to say some pages back...Spoiler: Spoilered to avoid reopening old wounds • show
Are Pastor A and Sleipnope the same entity? Personally I don't think so, but it would be an interesting twist if they turned out to be different sides of the same personality. Pastor A (maybe a chaplain at the Fort?) is the human, compassionate side, and Sleipnope (at its core) is a manifestation of her suppressed grief and rage at what happened with the rash and at being stuck in limbo for 90 years. Reuniting them into a whole being would solve the situation by allowing her to move on to the afterlife.
...I pretty much just described the plot of The Dark Crystal didn't I? :'D
Yes, it has been posited that we are only 1-3 days since the Tank caught fire and the day just went downhill from there.
That's an interesting theory about Pastor A and a division in her personality. However, Sleipnope is composed of entities that originated in Copenhagen and followed them there, while Pastor A's arc began on the next island over.
I must disagree, Dilandu, I believe that a central personality is at Sleipnope's heart, one that recognised the opportunity that the sjødraug and tethered horse presented. What I can't figure out is the impetus that shoved that personality out of the fort in the first place. It's not just Mikkel's presence, because a truly malevolent spirit that *could* leave the confines, *would.* Long since.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 16, 2017, 04:53:02 AM
This theory required one assumption; that Dark A and Light A became separated before the event after which Dark A (aka murderghosts) started to dislike Lalli and/or Reynir. Light A obviously doesnt even know who Reynkr are.
Good point. I suppose Pastor A was somehow able to hold on to her personality after death (a latent mage? In Year 0?) in a way the rest of the murder-ghosts-to-be couldn't, and then was able to confine/banish her dark thoughts and anger into what broke away and became the Sleipnope core.
Yes, it has been posited that we are only 1-3 days since the Tank caught fire and the day just went downhill from there.
My calculations for the episode guide (which I need to update!) concur. (I'll probably edit in the exact timings when I get home).
That's an interesting theory about Pastor A and a division in her personality. However, Sleipnope is composed of entities that originated in Copenhagen and followed them there, while Pastor A's arc began on the next island over.
Oh certainly. It's just wild theorising :)
I must disagree, Dilandu, I believe that a central personality is at Sleipnope's heart, one that recognised the opportunity that the sjødraug and tethered horse presented. What I can't figure out is the impetus that shoved that personality out of the fort in the first place. It's not just Mikkel's presence, because a truly malevolent spirit that *could* leave the confines, *would.* Long since.
I wonder if it's case of the Murder Ghosts kind of being "asleep" in a way. Drifting around in their building for decades forgetting that they were ever human. And then actual humans turn up, wake them up and remind them of everything they've lost. Cue pointing almost a century of insane, bottled up rage and jealousy at the team.
Maybe... Time will tell!
Post by: Dilandu on October 16, 2017, 05:46:51 AM
. It's not just Mikkel's presence, because a truly malevolent spirit that *could* leave the confines, *would.* Long since.
Agreed. Whatever was the reason, it is something more than just "human here... let's kill human!". Sleipnope was shown to be rational. Not completely, but capable of thinking and making conclusions, more or less logical. The theory "Mikkel disturbed their resting place and thats why ghosts started to chase him" just didn't feel right. Sleipnope seems to be rational enough to understood that all this intrusion was just incidental and no harm was meant. And, Mikkel wasn't even the first target of their attack; first was Sigrun, who never ever were near fort, and ghosts never actually meet her.
So, there must be some deeper, more important reason, why a bunch of ghosts started to follow the expedition. It took a lot of efforts for them, after all; after failed attack, Sleipnope looked pretty miserable... actually looked harmed and suffering.
So, we have the rational entity, that considered destruction of expedition important enough to take the risks and suffer for that. And the Sleipnope taunts to Lalli/Reynir seems to be... aimed.
Post by: Sc0ut on October 16, 2017, 05:56:35 AM
So, we have the rational entity, that considered destruction of expedition important enough to take the risks and suffer for that.
I'm not sure if the trolls' real, conscious intention is to harm and destroy humans. I've had doubts about it ever since we saw the train giant say "help me" to the very humans it attacked. I think aggression is simply the only interaction they're capable of - they actually seek help but whatever corrupted their bodies also corrupts their actions into violence. That's my headcanon, anyway.
Post by: Dilandu on October 16, 2017, 06:18:20 AM
I'm not sure if the trolls' real, conscious intention is to harm and destroy humans. I've had doubts about it ever since we saw the train giant say "help me" to the very humans it attacked. I think aggression is simply the only interaction they're capable of - they actually seek help but whatever corrupted their bodies also corrupts their actions into violence. That's my headcanon, anyway.
Well, in some cases troll reaction could be explained by simple hunger - like toothy troll that attacked Emil. Or, nest protection.
In some cases, the origin of reaction is not clear. For example, jelly-brain trolls. Its unclear, would they attack the expedition if cat-tank would NOT crash into their nest and kill one of them. Even the completely peaceful creatures would probably consider such action as hostile.
Sjødraug was even stated in official documents to be relatively passive, non-hostile creature, and its agressive reaction also may be explained by harm that expedition inflicted.
But the leaftroll was clearly hostile. It doesn't just attacked; it tracked expedition for a long distance, despite the fact, that it was alone and too small to have realistic chances of sucsess. Injured, it tried to retreat, whic indicated not completely automatic hostility (for example, worker bee would protect the hive despite any i njures). And the giant that attacked Emil and Lalli was clearly hostile; the attack was unprovoked, took a lot of efforts just to move out of the building, and could not be explained just by hunting (too many efforts for just two small humans)
Post by: Róisín on October 16, 2017, 06:29:09 AM
Post by: Dilandu on October 16, 2017, 06:46:46 AM
I have wondered if the Rash Disease itself actually has a consciousness, or is under the control of one. And if all the souls of the human and animal bodies subsumed by it are actually still there, still aware, still suffering, along for the ride but helpless to act individually until something breaks that control, like the ray of sunlight in the eyes for Emil's beast-dog, or being separated from the mass of the giant like that poor girl on the train.
If so, its a pretty... stupid consciousness. Most trolls demonstrate pretty simplistic behavior, not even on the level of mammals. And giants seems to be evless intelligent.
Considering Cthulhund and train-giant head... in both cases brain seems to be relatively intact. With Cthulhund, the remission period was at least several hours long, but actually Cthulhund wasn't very agressive in the beginning. With the head of train-giant, we seems to have at least some partially intelligent reaction, but the observation period was too short to make a conclusion
Post by: Lazy8 on October 16, 2017, 09:01:13 AM
The theory "Mikkel disturbed their resting place and thats why ghosts started to chase him" just didn't feel right. Sleipnope seems to be rational enough to understood that all this intrusion was just incidental and no harm was meant. And, Mikkel wasn't even the first target of their attack; first was Sigrun, who never ever were near fort, and ghosts never actually meet her.
You're missing a couple of details here, though. First of all, the fact that the ghosts left their resting place and started chasing the crew well before they merged into Sleipnope. That happened... well, the earliest thing that could rationally be called an incarnation of Sleipnope was created either during or immediately after the first attack, when Reynir was trying to fend them off and then when Onni swooped in to get them off the crew's backs. Prior to that, the ghosts that Reynir saw creeping up on the tank were a group of individuals, not any sort of legion.
As for Mikkel disturbing their resting place... it does fit with the fact that the animal tracks were all avoiding the place (they knew something bad would happen to them if they went in there). I don't think at that point the ghosts had any sort of collective consciousness - they were just following the tracks of the person who'd disturbed them. We also have it from Minna that who was and wasn't the first target of their attack was a matter of pure luck; Mikkel and Sigrun went down first (and both of them at the same time) because they were in the shadows, where they were vulnerable, whereas Emil and Tuuri were lucky enough to have been in the last remaining patches of sunlight right at that moment, and Reyir was saved by his latent mage powers kicking in.
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So, there must be some deeper, more important reason, why a bunch of ghosts started to follow the expedition. It took a lot of efforts for them, after all; after failed attack, Sleipnope looked pretty miserable... actually looked harmed and suffering.
So, we have the rational entity, that considered destruction of expedition important enough to take the risks and suffer for that. And the Sleipnope taunts to Lalli/Reynir seems to be... aimed.
My personal theory is that this chase didn't start out as any deeper more important reason - it was just a bunch of ghosts reacting to someone who'd come into their territory. But I do think it likely that it became a deeper more important reason as time went on and Sleipnope continued to evolve. Onni has stated outright before that ghosts that find themselves unable to move on have a tendency to grow angry, and these particular ghosts could also have been harboring some latent anger over the failed cure and the fact that their caretakers lied to them. They wouldn't necessarily remember what the anger was about, but it would still be there nonetheless.
So then, something living and oblivious wanders into their domain. They're no longer capable of rational thought at this point or of parsing who's actually to blame; the only thing they know is that a living target has ever so conveniently presented itself. So, they follow it. And it leads them to still more convenient targets.
Then, the attack happens, and is thwarted... but it has the effect of merging them into a single legion. As such, this legion begins to acquire the first glimmers of something that they hadn't had before: purpose. It doesn't matter whether this purpose will actually help them or not; it doesn't matter how many times they're thwarted. They have an actual goal now, something to work towards in lieu of the moving on which they've become incapable of doing, and so they pursue it singlemindedly. As they move on, they acquire more minds and their purpose grows sharper; they begin not only to plan but to rationalize. If they must suffer, others must suffer with them.
If so, its a pretty... stupid consciousness. Most trolls demonstrate pretty simplistic behavior, not even on the level of mammals. And giants seems to be evless intelligent.
Considering Cthulhund and train-giant head... in both cases brain seems to be relatively intact. With Cthulhund, the remission period was at least several hours long, but actually Cthulhund wasn't very agressive in the beginning. With the head of train-giant, we seems to have at least some partially intelligent reaction, but the observation period was too short to make a conclusion
That's the issue of thinking of Rash creatures as animals. The thing is, though, Rash creatures aren't animals as we know them. The Rashed are a disease. And what's the singular purpose of a disease? To spread. Thinking from the viewpoint of a pathogen, it's perfectly rational to sacrifice its current host body if it can in turn infect another host which can then go on to spread the disease (and considering that the Rash is at its most virulent in the early stages... there would be plenty of advantage in infecting a new host body as opposed to preserving the old one). There are many, many examples of animals that have been infected with some virus or fungus or parasite acting in ways that are counter to their own survival: ants climbing the tallest blade of grass so they'll get eaten by a cow, mice losing their fear of cats... preservation of the host body isn't important, but propagation of the disease is.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 16, 2017, 09:33:46 AM
My personal theory is that this chase didn't start out as any deeper more important reason - it was just a bunch of ghosts reacting to someone who'd come into their territory. But I do think it likely that it became a deeper more important reason as time went on and Sleipnope continued to evolve. Onni has stated outright before that ghosts that find themselves unable to move on have a tendency to grow angry, and these particular ghosts could also have been harboring some latent anger over the failed cure and the fact that their caretakers lied to them. They wouldn't necessarily remember what the anger was about, but it would still be there nonetheless.
So then, something living and oblivious wanders into their domain. They're no longer capable of rational thought at this point or of parsing who's actually to blame; the only thing they know is that a living target has ever so conveniently presented itself. So, they follow it. And it leads them to still more convenient targets.
Then, the attack happens, and is thwarted... but it has the effect of merging them into a single legion. As such, this legion begins to acquire the first glimmers of something that they hadn't had before: purpose. It doesn't matter whether this purpose will actually help them or not; it doesn't matter how many times they're thwarted. They have an actual goal now, something to work towards in lieu of the moving on which they've become incapable of doing, and so they pursue it singlemindedly. As they move on, they acquire more minds and their purpose grows sharper; they begin not only to plan but to rationalize. If they must suffer, others must suffer with them.
That chimes pretty well with my thoughts as well (way-out theories about Pastor A aside!)
Post by: Dilandu on October 16, 2017, 09:47:56 AM
You're missing a couple of details here, though. First of all, the fact that the ghosts left their resting place and started chasing the crew well before they merged into Sleipnope. That happened... well, the earliest thing that could rationally be called an incarnation of Sleipnope was created either during or immediately after the first attack, when Reynir was trying to fend them off and then when Onni swooped in to get them off the crew's backs. Prior to that, the ghosts that Reynir saw creeping up on the tank were a group of individuals, not any sort of legion.
Maybe, but Sleipnope at least was rational, you agree? So, even if individual ghosts are irrational, the Sleipnope at least could ask itself "for what reason I'm doing that?" It is not that its actions are simple and cheap; they are costly and painful.
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As for Mikkel disturbing their resting place... it does fit with the fact that the animal tracks were all avoiding the place (they knew something bad would happen to them if they went in there).
Yes, but not exactly very far. If murderghosts were actual threat, animals would hardly live around in such numbers. So, id doesn't seems that murderghosts have the habit to run around plotting revenge on squirrels and rabbits before. More likely, animals considered them as sort of landmine; it would kill you if you get too close, but it hardly would chase you around, demanding that you must apologise for stepping on it.
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My personal theory is that this chase didn't start out as any deeper more important reason - it was just a bunch of ghosts reacting to someone who'd come into their territory. But I do think it likely that it became a deeper more important reason as time went on and Sleipnope continued to evolve. Onni has stated outright before that ghosts that find themselves unable to move on have a tendency to grow angry, and these particular ghosts could also have been harboring some latent anger over the failed cure and the fact that their caretakers lied to them. They wouldn't necessarily remember what the anger was about, but it would still be there nonetheless.
So then, something living and oblivious wanders into their domain. They're no longer capable of rational thought at this point or of parsing who's actually to blame; the only thing they know is that a living target has ever so conveniently presented itself. So, they follow it. And it leads them to still more convenient targets.
It is... possible explanation, I must admit.
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Then, the attack happens, and is thwarted... but it has the effect of merging them into a single legion. As such, this legion begins to acquire the first glimmers of something that they hadn't had before: purpose. It doesn't matter whether this purpose will actually help them or not; it doesn't matter how many times they're thwarted. They have an actual goal now, something to work towards in lieu of the moving on which they've become incapable of doing, and so they pursue it singlemindedly. As they move on, they acquire more minds and their purpose grows sharper; they begin not only to plan but to rationalize. If they must suffer, others must suffer with them.
Here, I disagree. Sleipnope demonstrated the ability to recall past events and communicate DURING the attack, not after that. It was able to actually identify Lalli and even conclude that he became stronger. So, there was logical thinking already active and running here. Again, the whole idea of attack - to use trolls as cannon fodder - required at least some thinking and planning.
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The Rashed are a disease. And what's the singular purpose of a disease? To spread. Thinking from the viewpoint of a pathogen, it's perfectly rational to sacrifice its current host body if it can in turn infect another host which can then go on to spread the disease (and considering that the Rash is at its most virulent in the early stages... there would be plenty of advantage in infecting a new host body as opposed to preserving the old one). There are many, many examples of animals that have been infected with some virus or fungus or parasite acting in ways that are counter to their own survival: ants climbing the tallest blade of grass so they'll get eaten by a cow, mice losing their fear of cats... preservation of the host body isn't important, but propagation of the disease is.
Er, no. It would be logical, if not the fact that Rash basically turn the victims immortal. And this is contradiction to the "spread at all cost" strategy; if the disease cared about the host enough to actually form kind of symbiosis with it, then why waste the host so stupidly? This is two different strategies, to ensure the host survival and to maximise the spread.
----------------------------
Hm... it sounds funny, of course, but maybe the murderghosts have some positive effect from simply changing place and doing something productive? They may start their march as blind chase, but during that, they were forced to analyse the situation, make decisions... I.e. they were forced to remeber how to think. New sensor data, after all, new visions of outside world, nore new things to divert attention... less time to just crawl around aimlessly, harbouring old pains.
So, maybe during the chase the murderghosts started to recall being humans?
Post by: JoB on October 16, 2017, 01:42:45 PM
and that there's no communication between Dark A and Light ASo they'll reunite into Andalf the GrAy? >:D
I'm not sure that Sleipnope have a distinct "central" personality. I always assumed that it is sort "controlled by common agreement", I.e. its actions are the approximation of several personalities similar opinions.When we were given a glimpse (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=676) of the various voices within Sleipnope, an important number of them were more concerned about their own deplorable situation than the whole revenge thing. I don't see how they could "agree" on the attack plan with herding trolls and whatnot if the active, scheming one(s) didn't have considerably more weight in the decision process than the Party of Sad.
However, Sleipnope is composed of entities that originated in Copenhagen and followed them there, while Pastor A's arc began on the next island over.Reynirs first vision of A's church (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=506) (the ruins version) happened at a time where they just had escaped from Copenhagen. The first time he saw the intact version (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=557) (which is obviously based on A's own memories of it), the expedition was near Odense, on Fyn. However, that's Reynir we're talking about, the guy who "randomly" walked into Onni's haven after Lalli shooed him out of his ...
Nonetheless, the original murderghosts came from Kastellet and maybe Amalienborg, severing their ties to the mummified bodies as they left. Both places have nearby churches, but none that are a good match for A's.
I've had doubts about it ever since we saw the train giant say "help me" to the very humans it attacked.Ah, but that (husk of a human) was a broken-away part of the giant, possibly one that hadn't even turned troll before becoming part of it.
... but if it was, it'ld indicate that if you allow a troll to merge into a giant, then split it off again, the result might be that it returns to something way closer to the original human than the reported efforts families made to "heal" their trollified relatives ever succeeded to achieve, as if the RashMind had left the body of one to join the giant's central conscience ... uh oh, I feel a frankensteinification-of-SSSS headcanon coming up ...
Post by: Dilandu on October 16, 2017, 02:04:54 PM
When we were given a glimpse (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=676) of the various voices within Sleipnope, an important number of them were more concerned about their own deplorable situation than the whole revenge thing. I don't see how they could "agree" on the attack plan with herding trolls and whatnot if the active, scheming one(s) didn't have considerably more weight in the decision process than the Party of Sad.
That's how democracy works, huh) Peoples vote for decisions ;D
And without jokes - I suppose, that Sleipnope is controlled by the feelings and thoughts about which all composing ghosts could agree. I.e. they have some common thoughts, common feelings, and those common patterns may result in something like... mental resonance. In other worlds - composing ghosts are thinking about quite a lot of different things, but common thoughts get amplified and served as brain patterns for Sleipnope. Other thoughts did not have the same resonating pattern and thus did not amplyfy enough.
Post by: Lazy8 on October 16, 2017, 07:18:16 PM
Maybe, but Sleipnope at least was rational, you agree? So, even if individual ghosts are irrational, the Sleipnope at least could ask itself "for what reason I'm doing that?" It is not that its actions are simple and cheap; they are costly and painful.
You could, by the same logic, ask why Tuuri kept insisting on running off into the Silent World even though that turned out to be plenty costly and painful for her, and never once asked herself why she wanted to do it so badly. Why do people wrestle alligators, or fly to the moon? "Capable of rational thought" does not necessarily translate into "is always going to behave in a manner conducive to one's own survival". My guess is that chasing the crew gives the ghosts a purpose, and it's better to be destroyed in pursuing that purpose than to be resigned to an eternity of torment unable to move on.
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Yes, but not exactly very far. If murderghosts were actual threat, animals would hardly live around in such numbers. So, id doesn't seems that murderghosts have the habit to run around plotting revenge on squirrels and rabbits before. More likely, animals considered them as sort of landmine; it would kill you if you get too close, but it hardly would chase you around, demanding that you must apologise for stepping on it.
That's exactly my point, though - they aren't a threat as long as you don't get too close. It doesn't matter whether a landmine explodes when you step on it or follows you out and drains the life out of you; you're still dead if you disturb it, and okay if you don't. I'm guessing that the animals keeping away is not a learned behavior; they have some sort of instinct that keeps them from getting too close in the first place. Though I will concede that it's likely the ghosts do treat humans and animals differently - if an animal gets too close, they simply drain the life out of it (as we saw happen with Leaftroll), whereas if a human disturbs them... maybe they're reminded of the life they've lost, or some remnants of their anger at how they died, and that's enough to stir them to greater action? That's going to require some thought, and we have very little evidence to work on.
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Here, I disagree. Sleipnope demonstrated the ability to recall past events and communicate DURING the attack, not after that. It was able to actually identify Lalli and even conclude that he became stronger. So, there was logical thinking already active and running here. Again, the whole idea of attack - to use trolls as cannon fodder - required at least some thinking and planning.
It wouldn't necessary have to be rational while something was happening to remember something from before it became rational - if that makes any sense? Sleipnope has also acquired many, many different lives and souls since its first incarnation; who's to say its motivations and goals haven't changed over time even if its memory hasn't?
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Er, no. It would be logical, if not the fact that Rash basically turn the victims immortal. And this is contradiction to the "spread at all cost" strategy; if the disease cared about the host enough to actually form kind of symbiosis with it, then why waste the host so stupidly? This is two different strategies, to ensure the host survival and to maximise the spread.
But even if its hosts are immortal, it still needs to be able to infect enough hosts in the first place to be able to survive and perpetuate itself. If only one or two people had come down with the Rash in the prologue, it could have been easily contained right from the start, so immortal hosts or not, it's still in the Rash's best interest to infect as many as possible as quickly as possible. That's not necessarily going to change just because the whole world's been infected and it's no longer possible to stamp out all of its hosts; evolution doesn't happen overnight, or even necessarily in 90 years, if there isn't any sort of evolutionary pressure. We've established that the infected aren't behaving logically, ergo they must be acting on instinct - and when you've got a whole infected planet vs. a few isolated surviving communities, that's not exactly going to put on a whole lot of pressure for the instincts to change, and if the virus is settled in its immortal hosts rather than infecting new hosts (i.e. reproducing), that only doubles down on the evolutionary bottleneck in that evolution also requires reproduction.
Post by: Ragnarok on October 20, 2017, 08:06:56 AM
I do not find this alarming in the slightest, as I already shipped it.
Your fiction will adapt to service us. We will add your homosexual and heterosexual relationships to our own. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Post by: Antillanka on October 20, 2017, 08:33:42 AM
Post by: thorny on October 20, 2017, 08:39:31 AM
And is the woman who's serving Emil all that lovely food (I would guess that Emil's pretty hungry, not surprising he's dreaming of food) his mother/grandmother/other relative, or a servant? Her body language looks kind of anxious, to me. And Emil, despite the food, looks rather glum.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 20, 2017, 09:07:52 AM
Maybe this was just before Emil enlisted.
Post by: thorny on October 20, 2017, 09:23:07 AM
-- it might well be right before he enlisted. He looks rather fancily dressed.
Post by: JoB on October 20, 2017, 09:53:06 AM
wait a minute, that's a Finnish flag.Umh, nnnoooo ... ? [points to flag cheat sheet right underneath the comic]
Personally, I do not necessarily take the flag as a sign that Lalli won't understand things once Emil/nanny address him. Technically, it was never even stated that mages using the autotranslator do not still have an impression of "that sounds rather [say] Swedish" in spite of understanding every word of it.
Post by: Windfighter on October 20, 2017, 12:02:03 PM
Nah. Look again. It's swedish. The cross is not white, it's yellow. It's hard to tell on the monitor, I'll grant you that.
Just butting in to say that the finnish flag has a blue cross, not white! ;)
Post by: thorny on October 20, 2017, 01:53:15 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on October 20, 2017, 04:57:21 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on October 20, 2017, 05:06:10 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 20, 2017, 08:32:27 PM
I think it's possible that Lalli has been knocked clean out of the space that he knows, and the rules are different here. Maybe possibly hedging my bets conceivably this is a dream that Emil is having that Lalli has access to.
I think that seems quite likely. Note that Emil seems to be wearing a more elaborate version of his uniform complete with the tight black undershirt.
On the subject of who "grandma" is, from this (admittedly vague) depiction she doesn't seem to resemble either Mia or Helga from the family tree. Could she be Emil's maternal grandmother?
Post by: Grade E cat on October 21, 2017, 02:33:39 AM
Also, whatever happens over the next week or two, I'm half-expecting it to get interrupted by a very worried owl.
Post by: thorny on October 23, 2017, 02:42:41 PM
In addition to the clothing and the body language, which looks subservient to me: there's only one place set. She's not going to be eating with him, she's just waiting on him. Wouldn't his mother, aunt, grandmother etc. be sitting down and eating with him?
As she's talking about family relationships, however, she's probably not just a random maid hired last week. She may be the family nanny, or something of the sort.
Post by: Dilandu on October 23, 2017, 02:53:16 PM
I strongly suspect that the woman is a servant, not a relative.
In addition to the clothing and the body language, which looks subservient to me: there's only one place set. She's not going to be eating with him, she's just waiting on him. Wouldn't his mother, aunt, grandmother etc. be sitting down and eating with him?
As she's talking about family relationships, however, she's probably not just a random maid hired last week. She may be the family nanny, or something of the sort.
And, Emil probably wouldn't feel himself so lonely and miserable if some relative was with him.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 24, 2017, 10:30:37 AM
Post by: thorny on October 24, 2017, 10:39:06 AM
But maybe dream spaces, at least for non-mages, are made at least partly out of memory? Because up to that point it does seem to be a memory, if not of a specific incident (though it might be), then of a sort of thing that did happen in his life. -- having it be at least partly dream might change the tone of that business with the cake, though; it might be a dream exaggeration, not that he routinely actually expected to be presented with a different cake at every meal.
Post by: Dilandu on October 24, 2017, 11:11:48 AM
As he's now interacting with Lalli, it can't be only memory. I don't see how he'd even recognize Lalli if it's pure memory; he wouldn't have met him yet.
But maybe dream spaces, at least for non-mages, are made at least partly out of memory? Because up to that point it does seem to be a memory, if not of a specific incident (though it might be), then of a sort of thing that did happen in his life. -- having it be at least partly dream might change the tone of that business with the cake, though; it might be a dream exaggeration, not that he routinely actually expected to be presented with a different cake at every meal.
Or this is the effect of location, and something in this old house acted as communication medium between them.
Post by: Vafhudr on October 24, 2017, 01:58:12 PM
As he's now interacting with Lalli, it can't be only memory. I don't see how he'd even recognize Lalli if it's pure memory; he wouldn't have met him yet.
But maybe dream spaces, at least for non-mages, are made at least partly out of memory? Because up to that point it does seem to be a memory, if not of a specific incident (though it might be), then of a sort of thing that did happen in his life. -- having it be at least partly dream might change the tone of that business with the cake, though; it might be a dream exaggeration, not that he routinely actually expected to be presented with a different cake at every meal.
So I think the cakes are perhaps the biggest tell because we know for a fact that cakes are high luxury. It could speak to the amount of money his family had a time, but it seems excessive. I am also leaning toward this being a sort of caricature of his sentiments.
Post by: urbicande on October 24, 2017, 10:29:45 PM
As he's now interacting with Lalli, it can't be only memory. I don't see how he'd even recognize Lalli if it's pure memory; he wouldn't have met him yet.
But maybe dream spaces, at least for non-mages, are made at least partly out of memory? Because up to that point it does seem to be a memory, if not of a specific incident (though it might be), then of a sort of thing that did happen in his life. -- having it be at least partly dream might change the tone of that business with the cake, though; it might be a dream exaggeration, not that he routinely actually expected to be presented with a different cake at every meal.
To be fair, we don't know who Emil sees. WE know it's Lalli, but Emil could be seeing some childhood friend.
Post by: October Sky on October 25, 2017, 02:11:49 AM
To be fair, we don't know who Emil sees. WE know it's Lalli, but Emil could be seeing some childhood friend.
Now that would be interesting- perhaps the reason for Emil's reaction is that its supposed to be someone like that and he hasn't realized that its Lalli, rather than that person suddenly looking very different?
Post by: thorny on October 25, 2017, 09:40:54 AM
Post by: Dilandu on October 25, 2017, 01:16:50 PM
To be fair, we don't know who Emil sees. WE know it's Lalli, but Emil could be seeing some childhood friend.
Hm... so, you suggest that Lalli is currently observing some dream scenario without actually interacting? He just assumed that Emil talked with him because, well, Emil reaction looks pretty much like he is actually talking with Lalli? But actually it's just a coincidence?
Interesting. And possible.
Post by: PickleChip on October 25, 2017, 08:54:58 PM
Me: same
Post by: thorny on October 25, 2017, 11:18:32 PM
She may be the family nanny, or something of the sort.
Hah!
-- and Lalli, who's asleep, is going to go to sleep in his dream? I wonder whether that'll make him wake up? -- I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting him to start in on all of that food. I don't suppose it would sustain him or even let him wake up feeling full, but at least he could taste it.
And if he's going to sleep, he's missing a chance to actually communicate with Emil!
Post by: Grade E cat on October 26, 2017, 02:41:40 AM
Post by: Dilandu on October 26, 2017, 02:55:26 PM
Hah!
-- and Lalli, who's asleep, is going to go to sleep in his dream? I wonder whether that'll make him wake up? -- I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting him to start in on all of that food. I don't suppose it would sustain him or even let him wake up feeling full, but at least he could taste it.
...And Lalli, who's asleep, go to sleep in his dream, and in his dream he dreamed that he is dreadming and fell asleep, and while he is dreaming that he is dreaming that he is asleep and he fell asleep once more...
Emil: Somebody, please, STOP THIS INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE!!!
Post by: Solokov on October 27, 2017, 04:27:18 AM
Mages don't dream, when they rest their minds instead enter an altered reality that is mostly safe called a haven.
Mage Havens seem to be static and don't change.
Mage Havens are in turn interconnected through a series of "rivers, ponds and streams" called the dreamscape.
The dreamscape is not static, and much like a river or bayou, will chane and reshape itself on its own.
The rules of the dreamscape, and the ability to traverse it depends on the mage and their type of magic it seems. (EG Lalli can't walk across the magescape rivers unless he's following in the wake of Reynir)
Non mage dreams do seem to be connected to the dreamscape, but are deeper into the "ether" so to speak and are probably more fluid due to the nature of non-mages dreams shifting and changing.
Mages can enter the dreams of non-mages but due to how deep into the ether they have to go to do this, it's probably dangerous.
Non-mages may or may not be able to enter the dreamscape, and havens of mages (it'll depend on where Minna takes the story I guess.)
I think I hit on the important stuff, anyone seeing any glaring ommisions or problems with these "rules" or terminology?
Post by: Sc0ut on October 27, 2017, 06:13:05 AM
I've had a funny thought all week. Until I get proven wrong (or right, who knows?) I'm imagining that the nanny is Emil's fylgia that's disguising itself both due to watching over an atheist and being something that would be really out of place in a fancy interior.
That's a cool idea :)
Non mage dreams do seem to be connected to the dreamscape, but are deeper into the "ether" so to speak and are probably more fluid due to the nature of non-mages dreams shifting and changing.
I agree to pretty much everything, but the quoted part seems most interesting and hard to decipher to me. Non-mage dreams are obviously less accessible for some reason, because we didn't see Lalli and Reynir getting into their team mates' dreams at all previous to this. I wonder what makes it different now. Obviously Lalli was displaced from his haven and ended up there without meaning to, but we've seen him have traumatic dreamworld experiences which did not result in this, even as Emil and others slept nearby. I wonder if we'll ever get an explanation at all :)
Since we're discussing magic: Isn't it weird that with Reynir's ability for instant communication over large distances between mages, nobody has noticed and exploited this way overpowered feature of Icelandic magic? You'd think Icelandic mages would be standard for each expedition or military action, because they're literally better than radio, especially when it comes to getting help in an emergency. But nobody in the team even hints at this being the case. Unless Reynir is actually unusual even among Icelandic mages.
Post by: Windfighter on October 27, 2017, 06:41:32 AM
Non-mage dreams are obviously less accessible for some reason, because we didn't see Lalli and Reynir getting into their team mates' dreams at all previous to this. I wonder what makes it different now.
I'm still going with "Emil's voice guided his soul there" because it looked like it kind of reached Lalli when we saw him fall back on page 779 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=779)!
Post by: Lazy8 on October 27, 2017, 06:47:05 AM
Mages don't dream, when they rest their minds instead enter an altered reality that is mostly safe called a haven.
Slight correction: Lalli had a dream-dream back at the beginning of Chapter 11, with his wish fulfillment fantasy.
Post by: Sc0ut on October 27, 2017, 06:57:49 AM
I'm still going with "Emil's voice guided his soul there" because it looked like it kind of reached Lalli when we saw him fall back on page 779 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=779)!
Ooh good point. I hadn't made the connection before. Though it seems obvious now :D
Post by: Purple Wyrm on October 27, 2017, 09:00:17 AM
Since we're discussing magic: Isn't it weird that with Reynir's ability for instant communication over large distances between mages, nobody has noticed and exploited this way overpowered feature of Icelandic magic? You'd think Icelandic mages would be standard for each expedition or military action, because they're literally better than radio, especially when it comes to getting help in an emergency. But nobody in the team even hints at this being the case. Unless Reynir is actually unusual even among Icelandic mages.
It's possible that Icelandic Mages can only gatecrash the havens of Finnish Mages, and since there's not much interaction between practitioners of the two crafts there's not a lot of situations where the ability is useful.
Or possibly, properly trained Icelandic Mages are discouraged or outright prohibited from doing it for some reason, such as it being extremely dangerous. Reynir not having had the benefit of such training doesn't know any better.
Or maybe it only works when the Icelandic Mage is in close physical proximity to the Finnish Mage, allowing them to find their haven. If this is the case Reynir is only able to talk to Onni by piggybacking on the strong relationship between him and Lalli. Setting up a communication network using the same principle would be pretty difficult given the numbers of Mages available - not to mention two entire nations that would think the idea literally insane.
Post by: Dilandu on October 27, 2017, 10:32:50 AM
Since we're discussing magic: Isn't it weird that with Reynir's ability for instant communication over large distances between mages, nobody has noticed and exploited this way overpowered feature of Icelandic magic? You'd think Icelandic mages would be standard for each expedition or military action, because they're literally better than radio, especially when it comes to getting help in an emergency. But nobody in the team even hints at this being the case. Unless Reynir is actually unusual even among Icelandic mages.
But for what reason? Radio seems to be much more reliable... Moreover, it seems that the distanse is actually matter; the magic may also be subjected to inverse square law...
Post by: urbicande on October 27, 2017, 12:42:45 PM
But for what reason? Radio seems to be much more reliable... Moreover, it seems that the distanse is actually matter; the magic may also be subjected to inverse square law...
If your mage has to be asleep to go communicate that makes it hard to do the "WE NEED THIS INFORMATION RIGHT NOW" part of radio
Post by: Sc0ut on October 27, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
But for what reason? Radio seems to be much more reliable... Moreover, it seems that the distanse is actually matter; the magic may also be subjected to inverse square law...
For situations like this: http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=633 And the radio is not that reliable, it's vulnerable to both spirit interference and technical issues (remember it completely died before they abandoned the tank?). And anyway, having two ways of communication instead of one seems wise.
If your mage has to be asleep to go communicate that makes it hard to do the "WE NEED THIS INFORMATION RIGHT NOW" part of radio
Actually, Reynir can communicate to Onni even when awake: http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=478
Post by: Grade E cat on October 27, 2017, 02:09:46 PM
Post by: Dilandu on October 27, 2017, 02:24:58 PM
For situations like this: http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=633 And the radio is not that reliable, it's vulnerable to both spirit interference and technical issues (remember it completely died before they abandoned the tank?). And anyway, having two ways of communication instead of one seems wise.
Er, mages are even less reliable; they could talk only to other mages, they need either be asleep or tremendous concentration, and they seems to be unable to rely anything more than short messages in "hyperconcentration" regime.
Make more sence to just place automatic radio relay stations in Silent World, to retranslate communications.
Post by: Sc0ut on October 27, 2017, 02:44:20 PM
Er, mages are even less reliable; they could talk only to other mages, they need either be asleep or tremendous concentration, and they seems to be unable to rely anything more than short messages in "hyperconcentration" regime.
Make more sence to just place automatic radio relay stations in Silent World, to retranslate communications.
Sure they can only talk to other mages, but there are always mages both on the field and back at home. Where's the problem? And while it does seem to take concentration, Reynir is able to do it every time he needs to, instantly. The second time, when he contacted Onni in dog form, they actually had a dialogue that could have been longer if Lalli didn't interrupt Reynir.
I don't want them to replace the radio with this. As I said, two means of communication are better than one. All I'm saying is that there is a huge unused resource there.
Grade E cat: it is possible that the family ties or some other thing like that are relevant, and the reason why this type of communication isn't used more widely. I guess we'll have to wait for more info on that.
Post by: JoB on October 29, 2017, 11:14:50 AM
I've had a funny thought all week. Until I get proven wrong (or right, who knows?) I'm imagining that the nanny is Emil's fylgia that's disguising itself both due to watching over an atheist and being something that would be really out of place in a fancy interior.... and she's actually perfectly happy that Emil doesn't eat up on all those cakes? ;)
(http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20101210/0013729e4ad90e6c2dfa2f.jpg)
Post by: JoB on October 29, 2017, 12:05:02 PM
One of my *hum* story interpretation clashes with JoB had a closely related subject matter. I was wondering if the boat was soon going to be close enough for any mages riding it to reach the crew's mages. If I remember correctly, JoB pointed out that Reynir hadn't run into other mages on the way to Onni's place in Chapter 7 and took it to mean that some kind of connection was needed for mage-to-mage contact (the connection being having seen Onni's photo in Reynir's case). If he's right, that could be an extra complication for setting up an official mage-to-mage communication system.Let's be practical here: We know for a fact that Iceland has impotant trading connections at least to Öresundsbro base (Admiral Olsen complained how "overrun (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=184)" his base is with them) and Bornholm (Reynir easily found himself a ride on one of those ships). If Icelanders were aware that long-distance seiður dream-conferences are possible and even remotely as reliable as radio, there'ld be one or two seiður posted in both places in permanence, whether it's necessary to introduce them to each other in person beforehand or not. How likely would it be, then, that Reynir has never heard of such a system, given his fascinated listening to his adventuring siblings' tales?
Post by: Grade E cat on October 29, 2017, 12:37:34 PM
Anyone else has any ideas?
Post by: Vafhudr on October 29, 2017, 01:46:22 PM
Post by: Dilandu on October 29, 2017, 02:01:37 PM
I'm afraid any answer I can give to this will be colored by my semi-suspicion that there have been some active efforts to keep Reynir from becoming aware of his powers. In my mind, such efforts would include a lot of misinformation and deliberate omissions concerning mages and magic.
Anyone else has any ideas?
Hm, for what reason? It doesn't seems that Iceland suppress mages or denied their existence.
Post by: Windfighter on October 29, 2017, 02:14:34 PM
Hm, for what reason? It doesn't seems that Iceland suppress mages or denied their existence.
Not Iceland, but his parents might have in order to keep their only non-immune child safetly at home!
Post by: Róisín on October 29, 2017, 05:55:03 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on October 30, 2017, 03:22:32 AM
Otherwise, concerning the actual latest page: I was suspecting that dream could possibly be of the evening whatever caused Emil's family to loose its money, but I hadn't considered something catching fire could be involved. As plenty of people have mentioned on disqus already, this possible cause and effect (the only certain part right now is that something is bruning, we don't know if it actually has anything to do with family fortune loss yet) has interesting implications for the present day.
Post by: Hrollo on October 30, 2017, 09:36:11 PM
Post by: ZanarNaryon on November 02, 2017, 04:14:05 AM
And I plug my ears, because I'm not up for this
Post by: Sc0ut on November 02, 2017, 04:24:14 AM
And the shippers cheered.
And I plug my ears, because I'm not up for this
Thank you, you non-shippers are always so generous to remind us shippers that our happiness bothers you :) Always nice to hear.
Post by: Dilandu on November 02, 2017, 11:56:51 AM
* Some sort of direct mental communication with Lalli? Hope not. It would be... too chiched. Not to mention that hardly possible for non-infected non-mage.
* Lalli's neuroclone in Emil's brain? More interesting, but hardly possible. There isn't enough space or processing capability in human brain to support two distinc personalities (and while we could discuss the "soul" concept, I hope, we all agree, that any kind of thinking & speaking required working brain?)
* Lalli's... neural shadow in Emil's brain? I.e. not completely neuroclone; just sort of... parallel thinking, by rearranging some parts of Emil's brain to Lalli's imprints. No "little Lalli" in Emil's mind, of course; just the Emil's brain now have a small parallel processing unit, which worked close to Lalli's brain.
Hm...
Post by: Windfighter on November 02, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
Ok, so now Emil have... what?
* Some sort of direct mental communication with Lalli? Hope not. It would be... too chiched. Not to mention that hardly possible for non-infected non-mage.
* Lalli's neuroclone in Emil's brain? More interesting, but hardly possible. There isn't enough space or processing capability in human brain to support two distinc personalities (and while we could discuss the "soul" concept, I hope, we all agree, that any kind of thinking & speaking required working brain?)
* Lalli's... neural shadow in Emil's brain? I.e. not completely neuroclone; just sort of... parallel thinking, by rearranging some parts of Emil's brain to Lalli's imprints. No "little Lalli" in Emil's mind, of course; just the Emil's brain now have a small parallel processing unit, which worked close to Lalli's brain.
Hm...
His body is carrying Lalli's soul! Which gives him a direct mental communication with him! How do you know that's not possible for non-infected non-mages? Because it obviously is!
(or Emil got infected sometime and it awakened his hidden mage-powers, I dunno)
Post by: Dilandu on November 02, 2017, 12:16:13 PM
His body is carrying Lalli's soul! Which gives him a direct mental communication with him! How do you know that's not possible for non-infected non-mages? Because it obviously is!
(or Emil got infected sometime and it awakened his hidden mage-powers, I dunno)
I mentioned that:
and while we could discuss the "soul" concept, I hope, we all agree, that any kind of thinking & speaking required working brain?
Soul is a good metaphysical thing, but it's generally agreed that yo actually think you need a brain. Question is, which brain is used? Lalli's, in some sort of magical neurolink, or Emil's, in some sort of magical neuro-imprinting?
Post by: Windfighter on November 02, 2017, 01:13:50 PM
(and while we could discuss the "soul" concept, I hope, we all agree, that any kind of thinking & speaking required working brain?)
What do you say about Sleipnope then? Sleipnope's original brain has obviously rotted away ages ago but they still seem able to form thoughts.
Either way Lalli's brain still exists so even if it wasn't for the fact that souls obviously are able to function without brains, his soul still has the brain it's supposedly connected to.
...This feels like it belongs in the latest page-thread and not the character development thread :P
Post by: Dilandu on November 02, 2017, 01:29:14 PM
What do you say about Sleipnope then? Sleipnope's original brain has obviously rotted away ages ago but they still seem able to form thoughts.
Only after it imprinted itself on at least partially material form of horse-beast (it is partially material; it is able to very audible snap the teeths - http://www.sssscomic.com/comicpages/576.jpg - which ghost hardly could do).
Post by: Dilandu on November 02, 2017, 01:34:23 PM
Post by: thorny on November 02, 2017, 02:48:40 PM
While the details are unclear to us (and I suspect may also be unclear to Minna), I think we have to assume that magic, in the SSSS universe, is capable of overriding physical constraints.
Post by: Dilandu on November 02, 2017, 03:01:00 PM
Bear in mind that we're reading a comic in which a trollified horse, for instance, can survive ninety years tied up and therefore with effectively no access to food or water. I suppose it got rained on from time to time, but that's hardly going to have been enough to keep a physical horse hydrated, let alone fed; and yet, there was still a physical horse there.
Well, it doesn't seems to be moving much... And, since I really doubt that 90Y old wooden plank could actually hold a horse-sized beast for a long time, it seems that horse-beast have no particular need to go somewhere. And it seems that trolls could hybernate in bad conditions.
P.S. It seems that the floor of horse-beast stable was flooded, so the water probably was no particular problem.
Post by: Anna on November 02, 2017, 05:50:30 PM
I think I agree. :?
...This feels like it belongs in the latest page-thread and not the character development thread :P
Post by: JacobThomsen on November 02, 2017, 06:33:12 PM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on November 02, 2017, 11:36:11 PM
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it, though. :V
Post by: Dilandu on November 03, 2017, 12:05:48 AM
for example I get the vague feeling that we should understand now why the minds of trolls are able to communicate on the radio.
Well, both the human brain and radio are working on electromagnetic impulses... problem is, the brain actually worked on electrochemical impulses, and pretty much isolated from outside fields.
Post by: ZanarNaryon on November 03, 2017, 03:41:36 AM
Thank you, you non-shippers are always so generous to remind us shippers that our happiness bothers you :) Always nice to hear.
Not sure if that was supposed to be passive aggressive, but if it was, I'm a shipper myself, I just don't ship those two. I said "Plug my ears" because I don't want to let it bother me, but I don't want to stop you. Do whatever the hell you want
Post by: Miriam on November 03, 2017, 02:46:40 PM
Today's page reminded me of this:
Hahahaha that's so funny and cute <3
Post by: Grade E cat on November 03, 2017, 03:03:44 PM
5: Reynir doesn't need to tell him to avoid the ghost hideouts because he's doing that on his own.
4: He consistently grabs Lalli's rifle instead of his own while gearing up.
3: He knows Finnish words that Tuuri is very unlikely to have taught him.
2: What's left of the cookies is vanishing despite Lalli being unconscious.
And finally...
1: He knows how to aim.
Post by: Dilandu on November 03, 2017, 03:32:40 PM
Top things that may convince Mikkel that Emil is indeed sharing his body with Lalli:
5: Reynir doesn't need to tell him to avoid the ghost hideouts because he's doing that on his own.
4: He consistently grabs Lalli's rifle instead of his own while gearing up.
3: He knows Finnish words that Tuuri is very unlikely to have taught him.
2: What's left of the cookies is vanishing despite Lalli being unconscious.
And finally...
1: He knows how to aim.
We still don't knew how much of Lalli is inside Emil. Currently, we have three phrases. No one of them is actually undeniable proof; they aren't that much differ from the someone's own "inner thoughts".
I.e. my version - that we are talking not about neuroclone, but about neural shadow - still hold.
Post by: JoB on November 03, 2017, 04:28:26 PM
And finally...I'm afraid that that concept will fly right over Mikkel's head. ;)
1: He knows how to aim.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on November 03, 2017, 06:12:02 PM
1: He knows how to aim.Not that I expect this to kill the "Emil can't aim ever ever ever ha ha ha" idee fixe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id%C3%A9e_fixe_(psychology)) in the fandom, but...
In panel 3 here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=664), Emil kills a troll with one shot, holding his gun one-handed.
Apparently, this is how he was trained to fire his weapon.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on November 03, 2017, 09:58:11 PM
Not that I expect this to kill the "Emil can't aim ever ever ever ha ha ha" idee fixe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id%C3%A9e_fixe_(psychology)) in the fandom, but...
In panel 3 here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=664), Emil kills a troll with one shot, holding his gun one-handed.
Apparently, this is how he was trained to fire his weapon.
But that troll was mostly dead! It doesn't count! ;D
(I'm just kidding. I actually agree with your view of Emil's abilities)
Post by: Jharad17 on November 03, 2017, 10:00:05 PM
Not that I expect this to kill the "Emil can't aim ever ever ever ha ha ha" idee fixe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id%C3%A9e_fixe_(psychology)) in the fandom, but...
In panel 3 here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=664), Emil kills a troll with one shot, holding his gun one-handed.
Apparently, this is how he was trained to fire his weapon.
Ah, well, that troll wasn't moving, and was just this side of dead. I think the idea still stands.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on November 04, 2017, 05:51:53 AM
Any other thoughts on this aspect of the unfolding story?
Post by: thorny on November 04, 2017, 09:03:53 AM
It occurs to me that when Lalli said he'd have to stay till he'd figured out how to get back where he belongs, Emil and I both assumed that he meant stay in the dream. What he apparently meant was that he'd have to stay in Emil's head -- including while Emil's awake.
Which is kind of an interesting twist on the dreamworlds; and implies that even for non-mages, the dreamworlds aren't dreamworlds because they exist only in dreams, but because they're accessible only in dreams -- but they must exist all the time. Or at least all the time during which the person who dreams in them is alive. Which would imply an underlying consistency to dreams which I don't think actually exists in the world that we're living in.
And since Reynir can move from one to another -- the entire dreamworld, everyone's together, may actually be one place, but most people can only get at their bit of it.
I wonder if it's made up of individuals' dreams, or is entirely independent of them and is just a place that Minna's characters visit when dreaming? but the fact that some of the dreams clearly reference individual memories (plus the incident with Onni's ear) indicates that it's related to waking world events.
Post by: Solokov on November 06, 2017, 02:57:30 PM
As a whole, not just for the emillali fandom.
Edit: let us recklessly speculate on those implications now, and what might happen if Lalli's body were to perish?
I kinda think it would leave Lalli stuck in emil's subconscious until emil eventually died (unless he somehow discovers the secret to immortality, now that would be a twist), the question then becomes would he remain a seperate and distinct entitiy, or would emil end up sort of over-writing lalli and just sort take on some lalli like traits?
Additionally, this close brush with magery makes me wonder will Emil gain some sort of insight into magic?
Post by: GunmanRex on November 06, 2017, 03:40:27 PM
Hmmmm.... this whole "lalli riding shotgun in emil's head" thing definitely gives implications for the fanfic side.I am suddenly reminded of Dr. Bright from the SCP fandom.
As a whole, not just for the emillali fandom.
Edit: let us recklessly speculate on those implications now, and what might happen if Lalli's body were to perish?
I kinda think it would leave Lalli stuck in emil's subconscious until emil eventually died (unless he somehow discovers the secret to immortality, now that would be a twist), the question then becomes would he remain a seperate and distinct entitiy, or would emil end up sort of over-writing lalli and just sort take on some lalli like traits?
Additionally, this close brush with magery makes me wonder will Emil gain some sort of insight into magic?
Post by: Grade E cat on November 06, 2017, 04:38:20 PM
Post by: Solokov on November 06, 2017, 07:58:19 PM
I am suddenly reminded of Dr. Bright from the SCP fandom.
Dr. Bright isn't riding shotgun though.
Post by: GunmanRex on November 06, 2017, 09:48:12 PM
Dr. Bright isn't riding shotgun though.True true,
though Lalli fully taking over Emil's body would also be interesting.
Post by: JoB on November 07, 2017, 10:28:31 AM
Edit: let us recklessly speculate on those implications now, and what might happen if Lalli's body were to perish?Lalli's quite a stickler for the noita job description, i.e., "make the soul of the dead enter afterlife proper, if need be". If the death of his body doesn't effect such in the first place, I'ld trust him to go swan-hi-jacking of his own volition.
Post by: wavewright62 on November 07, 2017, 08:23:09 PM
Lalli's quite a stickler for the noita job description, i.e., "make the soul of the dead enter afterlife proper, if need be". If the death of his body doesn't effect such in the first place, I'ld trust him to go swan-hi-jacking of his own volition.
I cannot agree with you on this one - mages would also know more than most about respecting the natural order of things. They could force a spirit onward, but that would be to make it fit into the natural order as opposed to existing outside it. His main concern when Tuuri died was ensuring that she went properly. He would have respect for the Swan.
We don't know yet whether 'riding shotgun' with another person is a condition that any mage has had experience with before in this universe. As such, Lalli may be a pioneer and not even be aware of how special this experience is (similar to Reynir's lack of appreciation for his powers of mobility). His expression when dunked into the Lilypad Pool of Nowhere was one of wonder and curiosity, and he followed the orange light because, well, what else could he do? He looked like he had no clue what was going to happen.
I've seen people before whose reaction to something outside their experience is to be ascerbic about it, like it's a personal affront to be outside their comfort zone. *shrug* That's a coping strategy, not atypical about it.
Post by: Róisín on November 07, 2017, 09:39:02 PM
Post by: JoB on November 08, 2017, 09:28:51 AM
I cannot agree with you on this one - mages would also know more than most about respecting the natural order of things. They could force a spirit onward, but that would be to make it fit into the natural order as opposed to existing outside it. His main concern when Tuuri died was ensuring that she went properly.Yes, precisely. What I meant to say was "once Lalli were to realize that he (his body) is legit dead, he'ld insist on his soul / dreamscape-self going straight to Tuonela 'where it belongs', even if - for whatever reason - the team and the birds of The Birds' Path were opposing that".
Post by: Grade E cat on November 10, 2017, 02:58:57 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on November 10, 2017, 05:03:29 AM
I can't help but notice that Reynir is actually wearing a combination of his dreamspace and real-world clothes. I can't help wondering if it's intentional or Minna forgetting which is which (she did do a milder version of that mix-up with Emil's uniform on the Chapter 14 cover by giving him the wrong boots).
He just looks like he's wearing his normal clothes to me. The difference between his dream clothes and real life ones is actually not great, and a lot of the differentiating details would be hidden by the uniform jacket on top. Let's see:
- his coat has short sleeves irl, and long in dreamspace: impossible to tell which one it is here, since he has the extra jacket on top
- pants and undertunic are lighter in real life and brown in dreamspace - very hard to tell in this color scheme which one it is
- long leather strips hanging below his tunic in his dreamspace clothes, there are none here
- in dreamspace, he has rune "coins" on his coat (impossible to tell if they are present here) and on his belt and boots: absent here.
So, no concrete evidence for dreamspace clothes at all >_>
Post by: Grade E cat on November 10, 2017, 05:49:49 AM
Exhibit B (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=373): Reynir's real-life own coat is usually worn closed with the belt over it and not that much longer than the military jacket. The fact that it's both open enough to give a clear picture of what's underneath it and significantly longer than the military jacket causes it to resemble its dreamspace counterpart as well from my point of view.
And I otherwise used the term "a combination" precisely because everything else does point to his real-world clothes, icluding the fact he's otherwise wearing his normal belt.
Post by: JacobThomsen on November 24, 2017, 11:12:55 AM
Post by: Miriam on November 24, 2017, 02:12:23 PM
Looks like we finally got some confirmation on the location of the extraction point on today's page, it seems to be a bit south of the town of Gylling in the municipality of Odder on the coast just out of Horsens fjord. So Emil and the others still have around 50 km left to walk. I wonder if Emil and Lalli will still follow the route on their map and take the time to avoid the bigger cities for safety or if they'll try to save time by traveling closer to the coast through Horsens.
Seeing as they are on behind compared to the rest of the group, they will probably try to save time and go through Horsens, yayay.
Post by: Grade E cat on December 06, 2017, 02:42:00 AM
Post by: thorny on December 06, 2017, 06:18:04 PM
I keep remembering that single line of prints by the wheelbarrow in Reynir's dream; and I was worried they'd just keep on going, down one more and not realizing it.
Post by: urbicande on December 08, 2017, 09:24:53 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on December 08, 2017, 03:31:21 PM
As I asked on Disqus, what's Norwegian for drama queen?
Sigrun, apparently.
Post by: Solokov on December 12, 2017, 12:01:55 AM
Post by: thorny on December 12, 2017, 09:45:34 AM
Post by: urbicande on December 12, 2017, 09:08:43 PM
If Mikkel's walking in the packed wheelbarrow track and therefore not leaving as much in the way of prints -- are we maybe down to the single-track appearance of Reynir's dream? Or for that matter would Reynir maybe not have seen his own prints in the dream, other than behind him?
They'll clearly appear if he waits long enough.
Some day his prints will come.
Post by: Ragnarok on December 12, 2017, 09:10:27 PM
They'll clearly appear if he waits long enough.
Some day his prints will come.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on December 12, 2017, 10:24:30 PM
Some day his prints will come.When they do, will it be a Kodak moment?
Post by: Sc0ut on December 16, 2017, 09:58:00 AM
Post by: Windfighter on December 16, 2017, 11:08:28 AM
I guess it's just as well that Sigrun (or most everyone in the team) isn't the brightest crayon in the box. A different character would have told Mikkel to take his 10% claim and tell it to Tuuri.
I've been thinking for a while now that maybe Sigrun will say that on Monday.
"Tuuri sure was positive, and see where that led her!"
...But that'd mean talking about something and we can't have that, can we?
Post by: Antillanka on December 16, 2017, 08:22:59 PM
...But that'd mean talking about something and we can't have that, can we?
Lord forbids!!! :'D
Post by: wavewright62 on December 25, 2017, 10:41:52 PM
I've been all through chapters 1-4 and other spots where I can find her, and her character description of course, and they are drawn as black only. There is only one scene (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=84), where she is telling Tuuri that Vellamo will look after them, where they look brown, but it's hard to tell if that's the actual colour from the lighting.
Anybody know?
Post by: Solokov on December 27, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
Trivia question of the day: what colour are Taru's eyes?I'm thinking brown. Iirc Tuuri's eye color is blue and while the shading blocks off part of the coloration you can still see they're blue along the bottom edge.
I've been all through chapters 1-4 and other spots where I can find her, and her character description of course, and they are drawn as black only. There is only one scene (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=84), where she is telling Tuuri that Vellamo will look after them, where they look brown, but it's hard to tell if that's the actual colour from the lighting.
Anybody know?
Post by: ZanarNaryon on January 04, 2018, 02:47:57 AM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on January 07, 2018, 04:50:33 PM
i know there's a page where sleipnope says it will follow somebody forever (i forget who it's addressing), couldn't find that page on a quick trolling through the archive :-[
Post by: Róisín on January 07, 2018, 05:14:54 PM
Post by: Jharad17 on January 09, 2018, 12:56:23 AM
my quick guess is that the ghosts aren't actually interested in reynir, they're interested in lalli and are tied in with whatever supernatural force is hunting the hotakainen mages.
i know there's a page where sleipnope says it will follow somebody forever (i forget who it's addressing), couldn't find that page on a quick trolling through the archive :-[
Here's the page http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=676 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=676)
The problem with Sleipnope (and the Ghostpack) following just Lalli is that, well, it isn't. It's following Reynir right now. It left Lalli back at the cattank, presumably, and followed the guy from Iceland instead.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 09, 2018, 07:17:35 AM
Here's the page http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=676 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=676)
The problem with Sleipnope (and the Ghostpack) following just Lalli is that, well, it isn't. It's following Reynir right now. It left Lalli back at the cattank, presumably, and followed the guy from Iceland instead.
Huh, this is an interesting point. I hadn't realized they left Lalli (and Emil) completely alone. I guess the ghosts don't split up the gang. Still, it would be interesting to know how they choose which group to follow. Three victims are better than two, or is it that they believe Reynir is stronger or.... his soul is more delicious?? :D Or is it the fact that he was around when the ghosts were initially stirred up, and Lalli was not?
Post by: Windfighter on January 09, 2018, 07:54:42 AM
Post by: Antillanka on January 09, 2018, 07:58:27 PM
Maybe they heard the whole conversation about how Lalli and Emil were going to catch up to them?
Maybe! Anyway, plotwise it's better that they followed Reynir and Co., otherwise, they would've lost Lalli and Emil in the Monsterhouse incident :V
Post by: Grade E cat on January 10, 2018, 02:35:28 AM
Post by: Dilandu on January 10, 2018, 12:10:15 PM
My take on this is that the ghosts are following both Lalli and Reynir (which is strongly suggested on this page (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=700)), but the house giant incident happening while it was still technically daytime had the unintended side effect of putting lots of distance between Lalli and the ghosts very fast. For all I know, there could be a group of ghosts looking for them right now, that simply hasn't reached/found them yet.
This depend of the ghosts ability to detect/triangulate & extrapolite their way. Currently we aren't sure exactly how ghosts are following the team, but distance seems not to be the critical factor. Most of the time when crew have a Catmobile, ghosts were able to track them.
P.S. Hm... actually... maybe it was Catmobile that they tracked? They used radio quite often, and the car have an electric engine... and ghosts were able to affect radio, so they may be able to detect at least direction & triangulate?
Post by: JacobThomsen on January 10, 2018, 04:18:39 PM
My take on this is that the ghosts are following both Lalli and Reynir (which is strongly suggested on this page (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=700)), but the house giant incident happening while it was still technically daytime had the unintended side effect of putting lots of distance between Lalli and the ghosts very fast. For all I know, there could be a group of ghosts looking for them right now, that simply hasn't reached/found them yet.Yes that could be an option. Even if the murder ghosts don't have any supernatural tracking powers and would have to rely on looking for tracks they could maybe have followed Emil and Lalli since the tracks that the giant made when chasing them would be easy to see. So the main ghost-group might have continued following the wheelbarrow while a smaller group would have investigated the tracks of the giant. However following the tracks after they broke apart would be hard, so if there is a group of ghost hunting down Emil and Lalli right now then they're either good at tracking or have some sort of supernatural tracking power.
Post by: Róisín on January 10, 2018, 05:19:06 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 10, 2018, 05:23:02 PM
As far as I'm concerned, the sweet spot for Emil getting mage abilities would be ghost vision and/or troll detection, but no actual combat/defense magic. This way he gets a glimpse of what Lalli has to live with, but doesn't end up overpowered (or with something he'll probably not have long enough to make any real use out of it, since I don't picture either outlasting Lalli's stay).
Called it! Yes, I'm still up. I can catch the page if it actually shows up within 15-20 minutes of the French 11 PM.
Post by: Dilandu on January 10, 2018, 11:09:20 PM
So the main ghost-group might have continued following the wheelbarrow while a smaller group would have investigated the tracks of the giant.
This would require another intellectual jump on murderghosts side. And, frankly, if they became intellectual enough to do such maneuver, they would probably knew better than hang on a wall together, turning themselves into easily noticeable object.
Post by: Dilandu on January 10, 2018, 11:21:31 PM
Post by: Solokov on January 11, 2018, 07:30:44 PM
Post by: Dilandu on January 11, 2018, 11:12:19 PM
These ghosts seem to be surprisingly more capable of speech than the usual variety, they seem genuinely surprised that Emil can see/hear them.
Yes, very interesting. Not only surprized, but they also seems to be capalbe of meaningful communication. Intelligent.
And this made Lalli reaction... strange. He is almost paniking, but it isn't kind of "run, fool, or they would kill us!" kind of panic. It is more like... he is worried that ghosts could tell Emil something, that Lalli didn't want him to know.
Post by: ZanarNaryon on January 12, 2018, 02:11:34 AM
Post by: Dilandu on January 12, 2018, 03:25:09 AM
Well, it seems unlikely that these ghosts are under Sleipnope's command. They don't seem hostile, rather passive, actually
They clearly puzzled that someone could see them; obviously not from Sleipnope crew, because murderghosts already knew that.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 12, 2018, 05:31:55 AM
Post by: Solokov on January 12, 2018, 05:42:05 AM
And this made Lalli reaction... strange. He is almost paniking, but it isn't kind of "run, fool, or they would kill us!" kind of panic. It is more like... he is worried that ghosts could tell Emil something, that Lalli didn't want him to know.
Nah, I think it's more Lalli's worry'd that Emil would panic at seeing/hearing the ghosts.
I wonder if they're ghosts? I mean they probably are, but do we know for certain that there isn't a bunch of trolls behind that wall and Emilalli is seeing their souls with Mage X-Ray Vision™?
There's no precedent to really say yea or nea on it... sooo... wait till monday I guess.
Post by: refract3d on January 12, 2018, 07:30:20 PM
I wonder if they're ghosts? I mean they probably are, but do we know for certain that there isn't a bunch of trolls behind that wall and Emilalli is seeing their souls with Mage X-Ray Vision™?
I read it as troll souls within the house based on the fact that Emil saw something "in" there and it looks like they are clinging to the walls and ceiling within the structure, as trolls have been seen doing before.
And does page 158 provide precedent for or against that? (Lalli seeing the troll's spirit above the train, but it was much more "solid")
It could totally be ghosts, though! That was just my first impression.
Post by: Róisín on January 13, 2018, 01:00:18 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 13, 2018, 08:28:45 AM
I read it as troll souls within the house based on the fact that Emil saw something "in" there and it looks like they are clinging to the walls and ceiling within the structure, as trolls have been seen doing before.
And does page 158 provide precedent for or against that? (Lalli seeing the troll's spirit above the train, but it was much more "solid")
That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
The two may not be mutually exclusive.
Quite true!
Post by: thorny on January 13, 2018, 10:20:33 AM
I mean, not through walls. But they don't seem to be saying 'hey! you can see through the wall!' but 'you can see us'; as if it weren't the seeing through the wall part that's remarkable.
Post by: Róisín on January 13, 2018, 04:14:56 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on January 13, 2018, 07:17:17 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 15, 2018, 01:54:47 PM
Post by: urbicande on January 16, 2018, 04:46:02 PM
Post by: JacobThomsen on January 16, 2018, 05:12:37 PM
The main thing I'm getting here is that Emil isn't very bright.Or that troll-ghosts just have insanely high charisma stats
Post by: Vafhudr on January 16, 2018, 11:58:51 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on January 17, 2018, 03:31:47 AM
The main thing I'm getting here is that Emil isn't very bright.
Looking at his behaviour, I feel like he is being charmed/enchanted/hypnotized. His gaze/expression slackens considerably in the last few panels.
Well, one does not exclude the other... I think both are true ;D
Post by: Róisín on January 17, 2018, 04:14:39 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 17, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
Post by: Dilandu on January 18, 2018, 04:57:56 AM
When the voices started playing in Tuuri's head, they also had a bit of a mesmerising effect on her, and while she managed to shake it off, she had to do so repeatedly. In context of Emil's arc here, I'm guessing that Tuuri will have heard about this effect through family crosstalk (hence her use of 'the trapped ones' when talking to Lalli). Poor Emil will likely have never heard of such a thing, to his detriment?
More likely, that Emil is actually care. Remember his contact with Cthulhund; Emil was overcomed by pity & compassion (and later scene with dead kittens...). While Lalli is generally self-centered (not counting family), Emil is actually a compassionate person, who could not just stand while someone suffer.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 18, 2018, 10:54:55 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 19, 2018, 02:25:40 AM
Spoiler: rant incoming • show
Post by: thorny on January 19, 2018, 08:45:47 AM
Post by: Hrollo on January 19, 2018, 09:38:35 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on January 19, 2018, 10:56:37 AM
On the other hand, I think what creeps people out (me included, a bit) is the lack of emotion with which he is talking to Emil. Magic-tasing him while being visibly upset that he has to do it would be one thing; but that's not what's happening. He looks colder than he's ever been. While I'm sure part of it is determination, would it kill him to to show the slightest hint of remorse?
On the third hand: Tuuri has been dead for what, two days? Lalli hasn't been himself lately, either. I'm pretty sure he's not used to riding around in people's heads and seeing through their eyes. It's possible that the lack of emotion (other than fear) simply indicates that his brain is mostly numbed out. He has plenty of reasons to be. Though even as I say this, I look at page 845 and the panel where he says "Emil" is probably the most expressive we've ever seen Lalli, it's such a mix of sadness, disappointment, a bit of compassion.
*big shrug*
I'm sure the next page will be very interesting, whatever it is, and hopefully clarify what's really going on with Lalli. I'm also rooting for infopages on brain cohabitation when this chapter ends.
Post by: Róisín on January 19, 2018, 11:42:13 AM
Post by: JoB on January 19, 2018, 11:54:22 AM
Assuming that Minna will have her characters have realistic personalities, this scene should spell the end of Lalli and Emil ever having a relationship, because of the effect it would necessarily have on Emil. The part of our minds that experiences that drastic get engrained in - the part that makes people stand up and leave the room before they consciously noticed that That Other Guy™ just came in, or prevent them from falling asleep as long as they haven't gotten at least half a mile away from him, or make them refuse to ever be teamed up with him again for another expedition into the Silent World - is not one of the rational "alright, let's talk it out" ones.Spoiler: excerpt • show
Post by: thorny on January 19, 2018, 01:22:27 PM
This isn't purely a matter of Emil having compassion for the trolls. Compassion may have been their way into his mind: but they're now controlling him. If he can see them through the wall, he could shoot them through the wall; or, if his weapon's not up to that, through the windows (clearly visible in that building on page 842). It isn't compassion trying to make him go into the building, out of the sunlight, and into their reach. It's their hold on his mind.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 19, 2018, 01:30:09 PM
Assuming that Minna will have her characters have realistic personalities, this scene should spell the end of Lalli and Emil ever having a relationship, because of the effect it would necessarily have on Emil. The part of our minds that experiences that drastic get engrained in - the part that makes people stand up and leave the room before they consciously noticed that That Other Guy™ just came in, or prevent them from falling asleep as long as they haven't gotten at least half a mile away from him, or make them refuse to ever be teamed up with him again for another expedition into the Silent World - is not one of the rational "alright, let's talk it out" ones.
Since we're talking realistic personalities, I'll remind you that there are people who stay for decades in abusive relationships. The brain is complex, and instinctive avoidance of the person who hurt you is not the only possible reaction to trauma (as messed up as that is).
Course, as a shipper, that's not at all what I wanted for them :)
But that doesn't matter, since looking at the evidence we have so far, I'm pretty convinced Minna is not interested in exploring realistic psychology in this story so they will very likely find a way to work this out.
Post by: Grade E cat on January 20, 2018, 03:49:01 AM
Because of this, I think it could possibly be a little rushed to label Emil and Lalli's relationship as going in an abusive direction as things are right now. I also feel several issues got mixed up here, so here's my answer to each of them:
1) Did Lalli cross a line in trying to save Emil's life? My personal opinion may be biased by my own built-up tolerance, but consensus seems to be that he did, so I'm not going to argue with that.
2) Could this have some kind of negative effect on Emil's side of the relationship on the longer run, including him fearing Lalli could pull that trick on him again? Yes, and it would be a legitimate reaction.
3) Would Lalli actually pull that trick again, outside of circumstances where not doing it could spell death for himself and the other person? I don't think so. He may very well be aware that he crossed a line, and it may be the reason that trick was used as last resort. An abuser is someone who does that kind of thing on a regular basis and sees nothing wrong with doing it. If that trick stays a one-time, last-resort thing, Lalli shouldn't be treated as the kind of person who would pull that off on a regular basis by us readers. From Emil's point of view however, once may indeed be once too much. I'll leave things at that.
Post by: Sc0ut on January 20, 2018, 04:18:48 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 20, 2018, 04:41:42 AM
Post by: JoB on January 20, 2018, 05:21:15 AM
But don't people ever forgive others who did horrible things to them while genuinely trying to help?That was my point, though: Once That Other Guy™ has become a trigger for something as low-level as your fight-or-flight reactions, "forgiveness" is something that newfangled neocortex may waste its time with (if I may channel Mr. Reptilian Brain here).
But that doesn't matter, since looking at the evidence we have so far, I'm pretty convinced Minna is not interested in exploring realistic psychology in this story so they will very likely find a way to work this out.(I agree ...
I was simply offering a real life counter-example to JoB's prediction... which is why this was actually not a prediction for the story.)
Since we're talking realistic personalities, I'll remind you that there are people who stay for decades in abusive relationships.To second Grade E cat, abusive relationships start as not-yet-abusive ones the abused one feels more or less obliged to continue. Once Emil has gotten to the quarantine ship (which at least he is assuming he actually will), there's nothing to force him to stay with Lalli if he doesn't feel like it; no more mission to complete, no established friendship with him (memento soupface and squashflower), no overruling authority of Lalli (as in the parent-child example).
1) Did Lalli cross a line in trying to save Emil's life?*A* line, most definitely. Our RL authorities (if only two guys from the future with a background of several other nations would fall into their jurisdiction, and Minnas depiction of the events were acceptable as factual proof of what happened between them ::) ) would call it assault and battery plus coercion, and then look into the mitigating circumstances.
(I just noticed I was ninja'd by thorny, for some reason I missed their comment earlier)(You posted <8m later, so you might've been already editing your reply when thorny posted, and - assuming that your account has the default setting of messages per page (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?action=profile;area=theme;u=10) - your post went to the next page of the topic. I've picked up the habit, in such a situation, to explicitly flip back to the previous page to check whether other new posts have fallen into that gap.)
(But also, I've just pressed "Preview" to check this post, and between the preview and the edit pane, I get a red bar saying "Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post." because Grade E cat just posted again, so there also are countermeasures built into the forum software to combat that.)
Post by: Sc0ut on January 20, 2018, 05:56:55 AM
(You posted <8m later, so you might've been already editing your reply when thorny posted, and - assuming that your account has the default setting of messages per page (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?action=profile;area=theme;u=10) - your post went to the next page of the topic. I've picked up the habit, in such a situation, to explicitly flip back to the previous page to check whether other new posts have fallen into that gap.)
(But also, I've just pressed "Preview" to check this post, and between the preview and the edit pane, I get a red bar saying "Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post." because Grade E cat just posted again, so there also are countermeasures built into the forum software to combat that.)
Yeah, that's what confuses me - I didn't get the normal warning box for new replies. Some glitch or another I guess. Unless thorny' comment posted exactly one millisecond before I clicked "reply" and it just didn't register to my eyes. Btw, I agree with that comment entirely.
Post by: thorny on January 20, 2018, 11:38:31 AM
That was my point, though: Once That Other Guy™ has become a trigger for something as low-level as your fight-or-flight reactions, "forgiveness" is something that newfangled neocortex may waste its time with (if I may channel Mr. Reptilian Brain here).
And my point was that different people react differently.
We don't know whether this will trigger back-of-the-head terror in Emil every time he looks at Lalli. And, if this does happen, we don't know whether it will wear off.
None of these things are flat out automatic reactions that happen exactly the same way in all people, at all stages of life, and in all circumstances. [ETA, rather belatedly: I'd include the slow grooming abusers often engage in as varying the circumstances; as well as a lack of actual or perceived choice on the part of the abused -- some people stay because they don't think they've got any better options. Sometimes their thinking this is because the abuser's gradually convinced them of it.]
-- and this situation actually reminds me a bit of an old story:
'What would you think of somebody who jumps on top of a little old lady, knocks her down on a concrete sidewalk, and rolls her over and over, slapping at her, while she screams her head off?'
' -- now what if I told you that the little old lady's clothes were on fire?'
While we're at it: would people be reacting in the same way if Lalli (who is physically incapable of doing this right now) had instead grabbed Emil by the arm and dragged him away? What if he'd dislocated Emil's arm in the process, and then kept right on dragging?
Post by: wavewright62 on January 20, 2018, 02:36:14 PM
I'd forgotten about the soup incident when I wrote on Friday night, and I also point up not the flower incident, but the oh-so-casual bonk on the head with the waterjug just before it (hahaha wasn't that funny - NO it wasn't). This is straight up abuse.
Edit: How would I have played this scene? Sing, dammit Lalli, sing - sing a runo, sing the national anthem, sing Incy-Wincy Spider for all I care, just sing, and sing it firmly. That would turn Emil's head.
Post by: thorny on January 20, 2018, 02:50:43 PM
Admittedly, we don't know for sure whether he had gentler choices. He certainly tried just shouting at Emil first, though. And I've seen no evidence either that Lalli knows anything gentler which would work; or that, if Lalli doesn't somehow stop Emil from going into that building, either of them has any chance of getting out of there alive and non-trollified.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 20, 2018, 02:58:52 PM
Along those lines, having seen the City of Hunger concept art of Lalli & Onni as cyborgs, I wonder further (pure blue-sky speculation) if Minna is preparing us for a more robotic (remorseless?) Lalli.
Post by: Gwenno on January 20, 2018, 04:06:20 PM
Edit: How would I have played this scene? Sing, dammit Lalli, sing - sing a runo, sing the national anthem, sing Incy-Wincy Spider for all I care, just sing, and sing it firmly. That would turn Emil's head.
While I would have loved it if Lalli had come up with something a bit nicer to steer Emil away from the voices, I really don't think he had a lot of options available to him. We've only seen Lalli perform runo under far more controlled circumstances, with time to do the whole thing properly and at his full ability, but right now Lalli is little more than an echo in Emil's head. Having busted himself up a lot with the previous spell, I'm pretty sure anything fancy is beyond his ability (and I'm pretty sure what to do when hitch-hiking in another person's head isn't covered in mage training either). To have any impact at all, he is forced to inflict pain upon himself hoping that the reflection of it is going to shock Emil out of the troll's control... but he doesn't know this for sure even then? Lalli had literally seconds to decide on whether he was going to betray his friend or let him die. He chooses the former. In the last panel, I saw no sardonic leer or ironic sigh, but resignation to his choice and grim resolve to continue with it despite what he knows it will cost the both of them, because I think Lalli truly believes that if he is soft-hearted here, it will mean both of their deaths and worse.
Post by: Róisín on January 20, 2018, 05:07:18 PM
Post by: Keeper on January 20, 2018, 05:38:05 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on January 20, 2018, 07:11:08 PM
A lot has already been said, but I want to point out one thing: A lot of people keep mentioning that it was this or facing a "fate worse than death," that is, possibly being trollified. However, Lalli and Emil are both immune. So, if Lalli did nothing, or if this or anything else he chose to do failed, and if Emil doesn't either get away or kill this thing, they're straight up going to die.
I didn't mean getting trollified, I know they're both immune. I was thinking about their souls being prevented to find their way after death. Just a supposition ofc, but I don't think it's such a stretch considering 1. We know there is a non-insignificant number of souls left behind, and not all of them seem to be trollified (see pastor A.) 2. We know things that happen in the physical world can affect souls, like when Lalli lost his luonto after exerting himself with a spell. So there may well be special issues if you're killed by a troll, especially if you're a mage and your luonto isn't really at its best, like for Lalli right now. This is the type of information we don't have, but Lalli might, or at least might suspect/fear it.
Post by: Róisín on January 20, 2018, 09:36:08 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on January 21, 2018, 07:43:03 AM
For what it's worth my own headcanon is that anyone, immune or not, absorbed by trolls or giants, gets added to the unwilling collective so long as they were still alive when they were absorbed. Bodies of which the souls have already escaped just get eaten/absorbed as meat, fuel, whatever. This may even be common knowledge, especially among mages and their kin, and would explain Tuuri's reaction to the confirmation that she was infected, and the fact that the job description for Finnish mages includes 'freeing the souls trapped in trolls and beasts'.
I like this headcanon!
Post by: thorny on January 21, 2018, 09:36:44 AM
It does make sense to me; though I don't think we've enough information to know for sure.
In any case, even if they're only going to die if Emil goes in there, that seems enough to me to allow for drastic measures to save their lives. And I don't see any reason to think that singing would work better than shouting, which Lalli already tried unsuccessfully. That is, maybe there is some such reason; but we haven't had any evidence for it, so maybe there isn't -- and Lalli would know better than we would. If singing at people entranced by trolls usually breaks them out of it, I would think this would by the year 90 be well known both to scouts and to mages.
It's true that Lalli chants when he casts at least some spells. But it's also pretty clear that doing such chants requires both time and concentration/psychic energy. He hasn't got the time, and it's very likely that he hasn't got the psychic strength right now, having used it up saving Emil's life earlier -- in a situation in which he seriously endangered himself by doing so, although simply leaving Emil to die and continuing to run away would almost certainly have kept him safe.
Post by: Grade E cat on January 22, 2018, 02:44:29 AM
Post by: Róisín on January 22, 2018, 02:51:28 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 26, 2018, 03:17:59 PM
I'll just put this here (totally unedited, but perfect as is):
(https://i.imgur.com/7ueZtfg.png)
Post by: Róisín on January 26, 2018, 05:58:09 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 26, 2018, 06:40:07 PM
Bang and Zeetha being all buddy-buddy over cake! Neither of those two seems yet to have figured out who the other is, and I suspect there will be ructions of the extremely violent kind when they do.Actually, this is from a rather old page - each knew exactly who the other was, and, well.... I won't spoil it, I'll let you follow the link:
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20150410#.Wmu8IqiWbIU
(I was researching something else entirely, but this was too precious to pass up.)
Post by: Róisín on January 26, 2018, 11:59:37 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 27, 2018, 03:03:28 AM
Ah, yes. On that level they know about each other. What I am waiting for is when Zeetha lets slip to Bang that she (Zeetha) once destroyed a pirate base to which she had been kidnapped while too ill to resist. Whereas Bang wound up with the Baron because she came back to her home base one day to find her folk gone and everything destroyed.......it was very early in the story. My suspicion is that Zeetha did that, and Bang won't be happy when she discovers this.
oooooo, didn't make that connection!
Post by: Grade E cat on January 27, 2018, 03:28:22 AM
Post by: thorny on February 01, 2018, 06:29:53 PM
Post by: Róisín on February 01, 2018, 11:08:14 PM
Grade E Cat: Girl Genius has a TV Tropes page?!? I'll see if I can find it.
Post by: Anna on February 01, 2018, 11:30:17 PM
Post by: Róisín on February 01, 2018, 11:32:44 PM
Post by: Lazy8 on February 02, 2018, 07:16:48 AM
- "I'm sorry I threw soup in your face. I was frustrated with the situation, but you didn't do anything to deserve that."
- "I'm sorry I trivialized your cousin's impending death. You were about to lose one of your last remaining family members and a pretty flower was not going to fix that."
- "I'm sorry I was so dismissive and condescending toward your culture and toward magic in general. If I'd taken some initiative and asked a few questions about how magic worked, we might never have gotten into the mess that we did."
- "I'm sorry I was so dismissive of your intelligence and condescending toward your capacity to reconsider your worldviews. If I'd taken some initiative and explained a few things about how magic and troll mind control worked, we might never have gotten into the mess that we did."
- "I'm sorry I hurt you to keep you from going into that nest. It was the only way to keep us both from dying, but I didn't enjoy it and I hope that it's never necessary again."
By this point I'm through getting my hopes up, but... it would be nice.
Post by: Róisín on February 02, 2018, 07:33:14 AM
Post by: thorny on February 02, 2018, 10:31:04 AM
I still think there is no real malice in either of them, just ignorance, cultural narrowness, and little understanding of themselves or other people.
Exactly.
And, of course, aggravated by the fact that they literally don't speak the same language. This is the first chance they've had to actually talk to each other. (They were both too exhausted, I think, in the first shared dream.)
And I think they're doing pretty well. Lalli recognizes when his phrasing's been taken wrong, backs up, and explains what he meant. Emil, instead of staying angry, backs up also and recognizes and accepts the explanation. While nobody's apologizing in so many words -- and I rather doubt they're going to -- Emil's recognizing that Lalli actually is a mage, and is asking about it; and Lalli's doing his best to explain. And the next brief burst of frustrated anger turns back into more explanation again.
I wouldn't expect them to stop at this point and go back over everything that's gone wrong since they first knew each other. They need to focus more on understanding the current situation. And I think Emil already knows that Lalli wasn't getting jollies from hurting him, Lalli doesn't need to spell it out -- if Emil thought Lalli'd hurt him for the fun of it, he'd hardly have thanked Lalli for doing it.
A lot of us live in a culture in which a long discussion going over all the previous problems is what would be expected, yes. Not all cultures are like that.
Post by: Róisín on February 02, 2018, 11:30:10 AM
Post by: thorny on February 02, 2018, 04:09:11 PM
I suppose I am less outraged by them because in the real world I have known quite a number of uncouth, uncultured and uncivilised folk, and most of them were good people under the roughness.
And I suppose I'm not upset by their not having a long cathartic discussion, and by the group in general's not doing so for that matter, in part because, while the society as I'm living in it now might well indeed expect to deal with problems by sitting everybody down with a counselor and working through every detail, this more-or-less same society, when I was a child and teenager in it, would have been much more likely to do nothing of the sort. I grew up surrounded by adults who had just been through WWII -- and who for the most part didn't talk about it. Awful things happened, and, if you were still alive afterwards, you were just supposed to get on with life.
I think that for a lot of people, the talk-everything-out technique is more useful; though I think that for some people it's the reverse. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if the year 90 society is the result of a fairly long stretch during which the people who survived were the ones who, finding themselves still alive afterwards, spent what spoons they had left dealing with what was likely to come up during the next day or the next week. Much of the trauma experienced during the year 0 transition must have had to be walled off in order to have any chance of making it to year 2. And I would expect that to still be reverberating, if considerably attenuated, by year 90.
Post by: Buteo on February 02, 2018, 09:48:06 PM
And I suppose I'm not upset by their not having a long cathartic discussion, and by the group in general's not doing so for that matter, in part because, while the society as I'm living in it now might well indeed expect to deal with problems by sitting everybody down with a counselor and working through every detail, this more-or-less same society, when I was a child and teenager in it, would have been much more likely to do nothing of the sort. I grew up surrounded by adults who had just been through WWII -- and who for the most part didn't talk about it. Awful things happened, and, if you were still alive afterwards, you were just supposed to get on with life.
I think that for a lot of people, the talk-everything-out technique is more useful; though I think that for some people it's the reverse. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if the year 90 society is the result of a fairly long stretch during which the people who survived were the ones who, finding themselves still alive afterwards, spent what spoons they had left dealing with what was likely to come up during the next day or the next week. Much of the trauma experienced during the year 0 transition must have had to be walled off in order to have any chance of making it to year 2. And I would expect that to still be reverberating, if considerably attenuated, by year 90.
Yes, this exactly.
I was thinking about the lads while driving about on errands today, and I come home to see that you have described exactly the conclusion I came to.
Post by: Róisín on February 03, 2018, 02:55:08 AM
Pretty much that, yeah. I was a child and teenager through WW2 and its aftermath, and that was how it worked. People shut up about it, and tried to get on with life. Sometimes that worked, often it didn't. Many of my family didn't make it, and some of those that did were left permanently damaged. My dad, in particular, had been captured during the Pacific War, by the Japanese, and had been a longterm POW, presumed dead, and had been tortured and otherwise very cruelly treated, including being starved to the point of nearly dying of beriberi and having his hands severely and permanently damaged. He had been an army medic. When we got him back there were years of nursing him through physical and mental damage, constant pain, screaming nightmares, the lot. When he finally remarried (that was when my brother and I were teenagers; our mum had died of TB when I was quite small, which is why we were raised by the grands and greatgrands) things got a bit easier, but it was never good.
My grandpa, also an army medic, was at Gallipoli. Enough said, I think. My favourite uncle was permanently damaged by mustard gas, in France. There's more, but enough horrors. The point is, all of these people went on to live useful and productive lives, after. Not the lives they could have had, but lives. And there was little help to be had, mostly none. A TPI pension and cheap or free medical treatment for the worst-off of them was about it. The world was overflowing with damaged people back then, and the resources to help them all didn't exist, even for those governments and societies that cared about their folk. Many didn't. I heard a lot about this stuff because even as a child I was someone to whom people told things (still am). And I lived through the aftermath, and am still here, living what seems to me, despite its problems, to be a fairly good life, because I am a stubborn b****.
Anyway, the point to this rant is just this: Minna has created a fictional world in which the background, the characters and the events depicted all seem to predispose to the worldview that s*** happens, you survive and then you go on. Damaged or not, grieving or not, broken or not. While this is, obviously, a far worse world than that in which I passed my childhood and adolescence living first on a hardscrabble subsistence farm, then in a very rough and ill-provided returned-soldier settlement, then in the Australian Outback, the aspect or 'survive however you can, happy or not, well-adjusted or not', definitely resonates with me. Many people had it far, far worse than I did. I have friends who survived the Nazi internment camps as children, were kids in London during the Blitz, starved in occupied Belgium.....(that latter person became a quite well known lecturer, writer and gardener, spreading the knowledge of how to grow and make the best of food in the most difficult of circumstances. Many of the others grew up to be doctors, conservationists, activists for the poor, the displaced, the forgotten. Their experiences shaped their future lives).
But none of these people had the benefit of the counsellors, therapists, psychiatrists that are nowadays taken for granted. And somehow they managed. The people in Minna's creation may very well manage too, and even turn out in some cases to be, or to become, decent folk despite their experiences and their deficiencies. I have been watching with increasing dismay the comments beating on the writer and the characters for being as they are, and wondering whether these commenters have forgotten their own empathy, sympathy and humanity, or have ever even met anyone less privileged than themselves?
Apologies for the wall of text, but it needed saying. End of rant.
**Edit**: In no way do I intend any disrespect to those who do need and use such services, nor any diminishment of their suffering. But I am saying: Minna's world is unlikely to have much of those facilities, and within the lifetime of some of us here present, neither did our world.
Post by: Lazy8 on February 03, 2018, 03:23:38 AM
Personally, my problem has never been that legitimately messed-up characters are acting in legitimately messed-up ways. My problem is that the messed-up and even occasionally abusive ways in which the characters treat each other is never acknowledged as a problem, and instead we're supposed to think that it's cute. And yes, this makes me angry - for the same reason it makes me angry that we were expected to think the messed-up, abusive relationship in Twilight was romantic. Yes, I went there - and while SSSS has a whole lot more potential to be a good story than Twilight could ever dream of, I'm still seeing the same fundamental problem.
What also makes me angry is that every time I point out that something is unhealthy or that the characters are treating each other horribly and that they're going to have to change their behavior in order for this to be a legitimately healthy friendship, I feel like I keep getting dogpiled by people lining up to tell me that I'm wrong, and even more people egging them on with comments like "Yes. This." "You show that commentator who dares have issues with the way the comic is written."
Look, I know you didn't name names, but it's pretty obvious I'm in that list of people you're talking about who keep "beating against the author and the characters". And yeah, it's a little hard not to take that personally. So guess I'm one of those overprivileged people "who've lost their own empathy, sympathy and humanity" because I have issues with the way a webcomic is written.
Post by: Róisín on February 03, 2018, 04:02:40 AM
I did try to read Twilight, because the kids of my acquaintance seemed to be about equally divided between 'Ooh, how romantic' and 'I'm not even sure I could say why, but it squicks me out'. I couldn't wade very far through the execrable writing and general vileness, but I got far enough to agree with the second group of kids. I don't think this is that sort of story. I certainly hope not. If it turns out to be such, I'm out.
I have only sympathy for people who are legitimately triggered by these events in-story. I'm well aware that dreadful things can happen to people in the world, having lived through some of them myself. And of course I don't deny their right to be upset, or to be triggered. But I don't think it is fair to direct this general level of venom at a story in progress, a work which is only partly made, before we know how it is going to turn out. I'm prepared to wait and see.
**Edit** Sorry, that posted when I wasn't finished writing. What I had been about to add was that my reason for citing some of my own darker experiences was not to elicit pity, because I don't want it or need it, but by way of explaining that yes, I do understand about people having terrible and traumatising experiences in the real world, and I do understand that sometimes those experiences can turn the people to whom they happen into people for whom it is hard to feel sympathy and empathy because they can be assholes, or prickly and difficult to know, or insular and isolated, or scarred, or angry, or untrusting, or, or, or. But they are nevertheless still deserving of our understanding and patience. I try to give that understanding and patience to people in the real world, and can't help also feeling it for well-realised fictional characters. In summary, I'm prepared to wait and see before judging.
Post by: wavewright62 on February 03, 2018, 04:20:14 AM
Post by: thorny on February 03, 2018, 10:27:31 AM
These people are damaged. The society they're living in -- the societies, really; Lalli was in many ways not raised in the same society as Emil was -- is/are damaged. While not all the details may be right, that part is realistic enough. It's far more realistic than if the society, or the individuals, were being portrayed as ideal. Not only do we have the remaining results of the massive trauma of year 0, but the nightmare is ongoing; the world is still full of trolls, pleading for help while trying to trap others into their horror.
But that doesn't mean that the people are all horrible people; or even that the society is. The fact that it's necessary to do terrible things to survive doesn't mean that the things aren't terrible. But it also doesn't mean that they aren't necessary.
The problem may be partly that I get the impression that Minna thought, originally, that she could somehow make a lighthearted story out of this. I don't think that's possible, and I think her story has overtaken her original intentions -- writing has a way of doing that, for many authors. That doesn't mean she can't get lighthearted moments into it (people in even the worst situations often find things to laugh about, and need to); or that the story may not wind up, overall, hopeful -- these humans have made it to year 90, after all, and they're overall gaining ground (sometimes literally), not losing it.
Post by: Sc0ut on February 03, 2018, 11:01:10 AM
For a while now, the comic has been hinting that empathy is a dangerous liability: starting with the sinking of the ship in the prologue, continuing with Emil willing to endanger himself to help the troll dog. Now we actually have it spelled out that being too empathetic is basically a death sentence for mages. I hope Minna is willing to explore this for good, since this is a topic that's been on my mind for a few years now. It took me a while to figure out that in real life, the people (and animals, and abstract problems) who most need help usually are the most unpleasant and dangerous to be around of. I never see discussed even in contexts where it's very relevant, such as certain types of volunteering, nor have I seen it explored in fiction much. When it is discussed, it's often painted, deliberately or not, in a misleading positive light: that it will be easy, and that results and gratitude are almost always guaranteed if you put in the effort. If you buy that, when you do set out to help, you often end up taking a big fall. You'll often realize you do it the wrong way, you have your help thrown in your face, or you make things worse despite your best efforts. Or you become burned out and depressed when realizing you can't make much of a difference. Or you stay in an unhealthy relationship hoping you can change the other person. (The flipside to the rosy portrayal is of course the ultra cynical "you can't change anything so don't even bother trying/just stay away from damaged people".) The comic trolls who call for help are a great allegory for this, though I'm not sure if this is something intended on Minna's part. I also don't know if tackling such a topic falls within her interests or skills. I'm just gonna keep reading, I guess. Any suggestions for media that does discuss this?
Post by: Lazy8 on February 03, 2018, 07:35:16 PM
The problem may be partly that I get the impression that Minna thought, originally, that she could somehow make a lighthearted story out of this. I don't think that's possible, and I think her story has overtaken her original intentions -- writing has a way of doing that, for many authors. That doesn't mean she can't get lighthearted moments into it (people in even the worst situations often find things to laugh about, and need to); or that the story may not wind up, overall, hopeful -- these humans have made it to year 90, after all, and they're overall gaining ground (sometimes literally), not losing it.
I think that that's my biggest problem with the narrative direction as a whole, and has been for a while. Minna advertised this comic as a lighthearted adventure story. Of course that doesn't mean it can't have some really dark implications - but the expectation was that the focus as a whole would be on the goofy, flawed characters doing silly things, and that the darker undertones would be left for the fanfic writers to explore.
Instead, it seems to me like she's doing this half-assed thing where she's trying to play the darker aspects up for cheap angst, but is completely unwilling to do any sort of deeper reflection that those aspects deserve, instead still clinging to that cute, fluffy packaging. You know what they say: "It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt" - or in this case, until someone dies. Now that Minna has killed off a main character, I find it impossible to buy into any of the more lighthearted or joke-y aspects of the comic as a whole. It's like the entire rest of the cast (bar Onni (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=794) and Sigrun (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=833), and not even they ever mention her name, or anything else about her as an individual - it's all about their grief) just magically forgot that Tuuri ever existed, starting a couple of pages after she died, and Minna expects us to forget she existed as well and just move on with the story already.
Just as it's hardly impossible to have an overall lighthearted story with some really dark undertones, it's also not impossible to have a dark angsty story with some genuinely good humor and fluffy moments - but only if the darker aspects are treated with the respect they deserve rather than constantly being swept under the rug. Now, every time a character falls down a hole or puts his foot in his mouth, and it's played up for laughs, I don't find it funny, I find it angering, because this is not going to make us forget that Tuuri died. It's like Emil's stunt with the flower, except on a fandom-wide scale: the writer keeps throwing pretty distractions at us in the hopes it'll take our attention away from a really big problem. Or at least, that's what it's starting to feel like to me.
Post by: Hrollo on February 03, 2018, 11:22:16 PM
I know this from direct experience. Some people reading the early drafts of my unpublished novel told me it was one of the darkest and bleakest thing they had ever read. This took me by surprise — I was certain what I had written was extremely tame and unremarkable.
Post by: Windfighter on February 04, 2018, 04:35:54 AM
It's like the entire rest of the cast (bar Onni (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=794) and Sigrun (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=833), and not even they ever mention her name, or anything else about her as an individual - it's all about their grief) just magically forgot that Tuuri ever existed, starting a couple of pages after she died, and Minna expects us to forget she existed as well and just move on with the story already.
Not gonna disagree with your post or anything but this part honestly feels realistic to me? Thats how I was taught that you deal with people dying. Act like they never existed and get on with your life. And I dont even live in a warzone where I have to flee for my life!
Spoiler: some rambling • show
All that said, it feels like shes moving towards them talking about stuff! First with the sgru and now with Lalli. Okay it hasnt been any "Tuuri was such a sweet, happy little fuzzy-ball" yet, but it has only been two/three days since her death and funeral. It took years before my family said anything like that about my grandfather when he died.
Edit: Also, is it just me or is Emil sitting very defensively in the latest page? Arms crossed over his chest, leaning slightly away from Lalli.
Emil dear, you come from a culture where that means "I dont like you", not from a culture where it means "I respect you"... Maybe he hasnt quite forgiven Lalli from calling his mind weak?
Post by: thorny on February 04, 2018, 11:11:27 AM
But it's also true that they've put themselves in genuine grave danger; and that the world Minna's put them in truly is horrible. Maybe she just thought of it as a neat zombie story, without realizing that zombie stories, if not done as a joke, really are awful if one actually thinks about them? But it's not working out as a joke sort of story.
However: I didn't come into it expecting a joke sort of story; not after that scene with the ship of refugees. (Though I'm not sure that empathy was being shown as a negative in that story: bear in mind that the person who had to quit the job apparently got home to help start off multiple generations of successful family.)
But then, to go sailing off down another rabbit hole, I'm puzzled in general that this society has to some extent fixated on fictional zombies in the fashion that it has, not so much as a horror but as a fun thing to talk about. Are we trying to tell ourselves on some level that of course anybody can suddenly start destroying everything that they previously loved, themselves included -- and that this is somehow OK? Maybe we're afraid that we're already destroying everything that we love, including eventually ourselves (which may unfortunately turn out to be true) and we're trying to make a joke out of this, so we won't have to try to fix it?
To get back to the specific comic -- I'm going to have to agree with Windfighter, not that that's how my family grieves, but that that is how a lot of people grieve. There are entire societies where one doesn't say the name of a person who's died. That doesn't mean those people aren't grieved for!
ETA: forgot earlier that I also wanted to say: We're reading this story one page at a time. Four pages a week.
That's . . . kind of an odd way to get a story. It's not odd for comics, of course; or even new for comics; some 60 years ago I read long-running stories told in the Sunday newspaper comics, one page a week. But it does give a different kind of impact than reading, or hearing, the entire story arc all at once, or even in larger chunks as a chapter at a time or an evening's telling at a time. And IMO it makes it difficult to judge any given page; or even any given week or two.
Post by: Sc0ut on February 04, 2018, 01:20:01 PM
But then, to go sailing off down another rabbit hole, I'm puzzled in general that this society has to some extent fixated on fictional zombies in the fashion that it has, not so much as a horror but as a fun thing to talk about. Are we trying to tell ourselves on some level that of course anybody can suddenly start destroying everything that they previously loved, themselves included -- and that this is somehow OK? Maybe we're afraid that we're already destroying everything that we love, including eventually ourselves (which may unfortunately turn out to be true) and we're trying to make a joke out of this, so we won't have to try to fix it?
I don't think most people have such deep meaning in mind when they discuss zombies. My guess is zombies are so popular because they provide a morally uncomplicated target for fictional violence, what with them being already dead and usually not sentient. That allows for the easy glamorizing of violence that's so desirable in entertainment. So far so good, but it doesn't work for me at all: it's either too visually close to violence on real humans that appear sick and disabled (with realistic gore etc) and thus squicky, or very cartoony and removed from anything real and thus boring. So yeah, I don't really get the fascination.
Post by: thorny on February 04, 2018, 02:23:51 PM
I don't think most people have such deep meaning in mind when they discuss zombies.
Oh, I didn't mean consciously.
I don't think Shelley's Frankenstein took off with such thoroughness and such legs because people who read it and people who re-wrote it were thinking 'Aha! An allegory for science/technology possibly out of control!' either. But I do think it did so in significant part for that reason, on different levels of the mind.
Post by: Mr_Plinkett on February 06, 2018, 06:19:02 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on February 06, 2018, 07:35:16 PM
If we have the traditional landscape painting, will it be of fire
Post by: Sc0ut on February 07, 2018, 07:05:50 AM
These pages have been a gift.
Oh gods yes. We've needed this for so long.
Post by: Hrollo on February 08, 2018, 06:53:55 AM
Post by: Imogen on February 08, 2018, 11:41:20 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on February 09, 2018, 02:50:56 AM
Post by: Ana Nymus on February 09, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
I had an interesting thought of my own last night. Emil's dream happens in a room with a sink in it, and it's been mentioned that the fire eventually spreads to the house. I wonder if he was still in that room when the fire arrived, and the sink helped create some kind of safe spot.
While Minna has some artistic license to work with, that's not how fires work in real life. Even if you can avoid the flames themselves with water, the toxic gases and smoke will choke you, and the fire will burn up all the oxygen in the air, making it impossible to breathe.
More likely, I think, is that a planned burn gets out of control, and they're forced to evacuate once it's clear that the cleansers can't stop the fire's spread.
Post by: Grade E cat on February 09, 2018, 01:51:57 PM
Post by: Ana Nymus on February 09, 2018, 02:04:50 PM
Post by: Noodles on February 09, 2018, 05:19:00 PM
A quick internet search yields mixed results. Holding a wet cloth over your nose and mouth can help reduce smoke inhalation, which is good. But if you drench yourself, the water will quickly heat up and you'll get scalded by it (house fires are really, really hot). Nobody said anything about whether or not it would keep your clothes from catching fire.If my year-old recollection of general chemistry is accurate, the way being wet keeps things from catching on fire is more or less that it takes a Lot of energy to heat up and boil water, so the energy from the fire goes into that instead of burning the thing. So, yes, being wet would probably keep your clothes from catching fire for a bit longer, but it'd do that by cooking you.
Post by: Róisín on February 10, 2018, 02:44:54 AM
Post by: JoB on February 10, 2018, 11:04:57 AM
Even if you can avoid the flames themselves with water, the toxic gases and smoke will choke you, and the fire will burn up all the oxygen in the air, making it impossible to breathe.To play the cleansers' advocate here, though, the presence of caustic and toxic gasses in a house fire has gone way up with the ubiquity of plastics - which the post-Rash society doesn't have anymore, magically still-watertight plastdunke notwithstanding.
(What did not change is that even when a person survives a house fire, the gasses they breathed can easily have been hot enough to cause lethal damage to the lung tissues they'll die of a day or two later. Soaked cloth can definitely be a life-saver there.)
Post by: Ana Nymus on February 10, 2018, 01:12:38 PM
Post by: JoB on February 12, 2018, 07:57:57 PM
Though the issue of the fire using up all the oxygen in the space is still a serious danger that a wet cloth can't help.Yes. The recommendation to get down and crawl out of a burning room is supposed to help with both the heat and the oxygen problem; few rooms are airtight to the point that the draft from a large fire won't pull some outside air in under the door(s). Which also keeps the fire going in the first place ... ;)
Post by: Ana Nymus on February 18, 2018, 05:21:15 PM
Post by: Antillanka on February 19, 2018, 08:41:33 AM
I just realized that Lalli covered Emil in his fur-cape-thing in the second to last panel of the page. So cute!
Haha, yeah, freakin cute!! Since I have the whole house for myself, I could squeal to my heart's content, and so I did XD
Post by: Athena on February 19, 2018, 09:18:24 PM
Post by: thorny on February 20, 2018, 10:08:57 AM
Post by: JacobThomsen on February 20, 2018, 11:56:35 AM
That's the church! -- isn't it? Those certainly look like pews to me.Yes, it looks like Reynir finally found the real world version of Pastor A's chruch
Post by: urbicande on February 27, 2018, 02:41:42 PM
Yes, it looks like Reynir finally found the real world version of Pastor A's chruch
Well...*a* church. It *could* be Pastor A's or not yet. (Although Chekhov's gun and all that)
Post by: thorny on March 06, 2018, 12:19:12 AM
Post by: Vafhudr on March 06, 2018, 10:50:26 AM
Post by: Dilandu on March 06, 2018, 11:46:07 AM
I wonder if this is a skill mages have to learn - to distinguish between dream/mage world and real world.
Er, Mikkel and Sigrun also could see the trail. So, whatever left them must be material. Not some mage dream object.
Post by: thorny on March 06, 2018, 02:33:06 PM
Remember Onni's cut ear? A different agency caused the cut in the waking world -- but he got the same cut as in the dream world.
Post by: urbicande on March 06, 2018, 02:50:50 PM
Er, Mikkel and Sigrun also could see the trail. So, whatever left them must be material. Not some mage dream object.
Magic can affect the physical world, though.
Post by: Antillanka on March 06, 2018, 09:04:06 PM
Another possibility is that at least some dream entities/happenings are also material; or are linked to material entities/happenings.
Remember Onni's cut ear? A different agency caused the cut in the waking world -- but he got the same cut as in the dream world.
Interesting! I wonder if it's different for Icelandic mages or is it the same...
Post by: Grade E cat on March 07, 2018, 02:39:23 AM
1) Upon waking up from a vision in which a ghost burst his head into pieces, he bumped his head against Emil's bunk (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=436).
2) Remember that this (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=840) happend after he got an angry beating from Onni in the dreamworld.
Of course, I may be reading too much into things. Only time will tell if there actually is anything to it.
My current headcanon about how injury transfer from dream world to real world works is pretty much lifted from what I remember of the time travel in the first Futurama movie. In there, if two versions of the same person end up in the same time, the one that shouldn't be there is doomed to die within a relatively short span of time, from sheer bad luck. However, one of the twists of the movie relies on one time-duplicate managing to dodge that particular bullet for months.
In that logic, Onni just happening to have young children trying to cut his hair right when he had contracted an IOU for a hurt ear made the perfect setup for fate to collect payment immediately. I personally wrote a fanfic that assumes that Reynir actually hits his head on Emil's bunk on a regular basis because of the sleeping arrangements, so I consider the dream ghost attack was easy to redeem as well. But if the person's circumstances make receiving the right injury in the real world too unlikely, it may take longer to happen.
Post by: JoB on March 07, 2018, 07:08:19 AM
Interesting! I wonder if it's different for Icelandic mages or is it the same...Icelandic spirits, at least, are supposed to be visible to mere mortals if they so choose, unlike their Finnish counterparts. Maybe that includes fylgjur, only that they're anxious to only show tracks and such because themselves being seen borders on a death sentence to their owner?
Post by: ZanarNaryon on March 09, 2018, 05:54:24 AM
Post by: Narnia4Aslan on March 09, 2018, 11:23:30 AM
I'm not even sure if this is the right thread or location for the following image but here goes. In response to the latest page (Page 870) I referenced Sliepnope appearing outside my Mom's hotel room. Crazy I know but I have proof!
After reading the "How to Page" https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=429.0
Let's see if this works!
Edit:
okay, okay, so first run through the land of photo-hosting sites didn't quite go as planned. After photobucket blocked some folks from seeing the picture and wanted me to "upgrade" for $80/year I decided to find a different solution. So here's a direct link to Shutterfly! https://pix.sfly.com/cM2ifk
And in the meantime I'll try to find another site where I can have a link that will actually show as an image on this post... So yay for learning new stuff?! *End Edit
TaDa! Do you see him?! Do you see Mr./Mrs./Mz./It Murder ghost? Muahahahahaha! Just who you want lurking in the hotel hallways!
Post by: wavewright62 on March 09, 2018, 05:02:57 PM
Post by: JacobThomsen on March 10, 2018, 06:18:47 PM
And in the meantime I'll try to find another site where I can have a link that will actually show as an image on this post... So yay for learning new stuff?! *End EditWelcome to the forum Narnia4Aslan :D I've found that the easiest way to upload pictures to the forum is by using imgur
Post by: Narnia4Aslan on March 11, 2018, 09:58:24 PM
Post by: Róisín on March 11, 2018, 10:44:47 PM
Post by: Vafhudr on March 11, 2018, 10:55:37 PM
And we just got a discussion between Lalli and Emil about how trolls can get in the mind of mage and mess with it.
This could be bad.
Post by: October Sky on March 11, 2018, 11:04:19 PM
https://further-down-the-spiral.tumblr.com/post/171781927312/this-has-to-be-my-way-to-set-things-right (https://further-down-the-spiral.tumblr.com/post/171781927312/this-has-to-be-my-way-to-set-things-right)
Post by: wavewright62 on March 12, 2018, 01:16:48 AM
What I want to know is, why didn't we get a look at that sign? Is that for Mikkel to discover? He does read Danish after all, and it's possible Reynir doesn't read, full stop.
Post by: October Sky on March 12, 2018, 02:42:42 AM
I see what you're getting at. I somehow think it won't be a similar outcome, though. I also am skeptical that there is going to be any sort of breakthrough from it either.
What I want to know is, why didn't we get a look at that sign? Is that for Mikkel to discover? He does read Danish after all, and it's possible Reynir doesn't read, full stop.
oh yeah I definitely don't think it's gonna end like that. If anything, this could be our chance at getting her back *crosses fingers*. regardless, it seems too much of a parallel to be entirely unintentional.
Post by: Sc0ut on March 12, 2018, 09:20:51 AM
so am I the only one seeing some unfortunate parallels here? (see the image comparison below)
https://further-down-the-spiral.tumblr.com/post/171781927312/this-has-to-be-my-way-to-set-things-right (https://further-down-the-spiral.tumblr.com/post/171781927312/this-has-to-be-my-way-to-set-things-right)
I think it's unintentional. That's just the way Minna draws characters Running Fast. See this page (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=221) for instance. (I know there are more, probably better examples but this is one I could find).
This (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=461) shows Reynir in a similar pose, and also connects interestingly with your post :)
Post by: |Yucca| on March 12, 2018, 10:43:45 AM
so am I the only one seeing some unfortunate parallels here? (see the image comparison below)
https://further-down-the-spiral.tumblr.com/post/171781927312/this-has-to-be-my-way-to-set-things-right (https://further-down-the-spiral.tumblr.com/post/171781927312/this-has-to-be-my-way-to-set-things-right)
There's also another clear parallel to the info page about Vätte. http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=274
There's a person, in the woods, with a back-pack full of cat. And what do we have in today's page? Yeah.
Post by: JoB on March 12, 2018, 01:54:44 PM
it's possible Reynir doesn't read, full stop.If you mean to say that he might be unable to, even in his own language, please note that he left a letter (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=294) for his family.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 12, 2018, 02:01:16 PM
If you mean to say that he might be unable to, even in his own language, please note that he left a letter (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=294) for his family.So he did, good catch!
Post by: thorny on March 12, 2018, 10:32:28 PM
and in bright sunlight, too.
Next question (well, aside from the one of what's on the other side of that tree, and is it the tree he's got his hand on): how much trouble is he going to have persuading Mikkel and Sigrun to take him seriously?
Post by: wavewright62 on March 12, 2018, 10:35:01 PM
Post by: thorny on March 14, 2018, 09:21:47 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 15, 2018, 12:41:04 AM
Next question (well, aside from the one of what's on the other side of that tree, and is it the tree he's got his hand on): how much trouble is he going to have persuading Mikkel and Sigrun to take him seriously?
Sigrun would at least listen to what he says (assuming Mikkel translates it properly). She believes in magic and the gods, and has taken Reynir's advice about spirit stuff before (most recently with the ghost van).
Whether she'd consider his claims about some ghost lady who gave him cake in a dream to be worth derailing the mission is another thing entirely.
Post by: Solokov on March 15, 2018, 11:30:33 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on March 15, 2018, 03:24:58 PM
I'm not liking the bit Minna said about Kitty's radar suite being possibly offline or in low power mode.....
Definitely a worry!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 16, 2018, 08:42:58 AM
-3: Reynir leaves home in the early morning (a guess based on distances and sailing times).
-2: Taru picks up Lalli and Tuuri. Emil arrives at the dock. Reynir arrives in Reykjavik and signs on to the Tunfiskurrin. The Tunfiskurrin leaves Reykjavik (another guess).
-1: Taru, Lalli and Tuuri arrive at the dock. The group take the train to Mora. They board the Dalahasten train in the evening.
1: The group arrives at the Oresund base and meets Sigrun and Mikkel. They board the Cat Tank and cross the Oresund. Camp at the tunnel exit.
2: They proceed into Copenhagen and raid their first building (Emil burns it down). Camp at the Kastrup Fort.
3: Mikkel discovers they have no food. The Tunfiskurrin is diverted. Reynir arrives. Camp at the docks.
4: Sigrun and Emil raid a school. Reynir meets Onni in the dreamworld. Kitty joins the expedition. Emil puts down Cthulhound. Camp at the docks.
5: The support crew leave the Oresund Base. It snows. They drive deeper into the city. Lalli clears the warehouse. They arrive at Amalienborg. Sigrun injured in Troll attack. Reynir has ghost dream. Camp at Amalienborg.
6: Mikkel heads to the Kastellet Fort. Tuuri and Reynir follow. The support crew arrive back in Mora and meet Onni. Murderghost attack. Sigrun fights the Sjodraug. Camp in the wilderness. Reynir dreams of a church.
7: Lalli wakes up. Reynir talks to Onni on the radio. Plans are made to raid the Odense hospital. They set off across country
8-20: Travel montage. Murderghosts follow. They cross the Great Belt bridge. Birth of Sleipnope.
21: Emil blows up a house. They raid an antiques store. Camp outside Odense. Reynir and Onni meet Pastor A.
22: They raid the Odense hospital. Pickup is arranged in 20 Days. Ghost and Troll attack at nightfall. Reynir calls for help. Onni summons Kokko and falls unconscious. Cat Tank broken. Tuuri injured.
23: Battle cleanup. Tuuri attempts to fix the Cat Tank. Reynir and Lalli create the anti-ghost rune. Reynir meets Onni-owl.
24: (Repairs on Cat Tank presumably continue)
25: Emil and Lalli go fishing. Tuuri gets the Cat Tank running.
26: Reynir and Lalli fight. Changeling children poke at Onni.
27: Tuuri and Reynir talk. Flashback to Tuuri's childhood. Reynir dreams of strange tracks in the snow.
28: They cross to Jutland. The Cat Tank finally dies. Emil and Lalli go shopping. Prep is made to start walking. Death of Tuuri.
29: Onni wakes up. Tuuri is buried. Mikkel, Sigrun and Reynir start walking. Emil and Lalli are attacked by giant. Reynir sees ghost van. Emil and Lalli make it to shelter. Reynir tries to talk to Onni. Lalli ends up in Emil's head.
30: Emil sets off, dragging Lalli. Sigrun backtracks and concludes Emil and Lalli are dead. Emil is almost tricked by trolls. Sigrun collapses. Mikkel talks to Sigrun and shoots a fence. Emil and Lalli talk in Emil's dream.
31: Reynir finds the church.
32-41: ???
42: Projected pick up date.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 16, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
Although it's a little jarring to realise that this whole journey is scheduled to be done and dusted before the solstice?
There is still the question of the canon timeline definitely starting in Y90, but did the expedition set out in Y90 or Y91?
Somehow I got the idea they set out in the late autumn (October-Novemberish our time), but it seems to be heading toward spring now, judging by the artwork in this chapter? Maybe the leaves Minna's drawn are dead and not yet fallen. (I realise the flower in Emil & Lalli's shopping trip had special greenhouse conditions.)
We don't really know how long the travel montage was, like you I assumed 2-4 weeks.
We don't know how fast Tuuri's hair grows, she went from boy-short clipped to reasonably fluffy, which usually takes a couple of months.
Post by: |Yucca| on March 16, 2018, 05:25:02 PM
We don't really know how long the travel montage was, like you I assumed 2-4 weeks.
The distance between Copenhagen and Odense is only 150 km. You can walk that in just a few days or easily in a week even with heavy load, considering how flat Denmark is and how there was little or no snow. Even if they took great detours on the way it's hard to stretch the distance traveled to more than 200 km. We were only shown Tuuri repairing the cat tank once, but they must've spend days still or else it's really hard to comprehend how they managed to spend even the minimum of two weeks on the way.
Post by: Grade E cat on March 16, 2018, 06:12:44 PM
The Copenhagen to Odense trip canonically lasted two weeks. It's spelled out on this page, and confirmed by Minna's notes (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=538)
The time separating the pickup from the Odense raid is somewhere north of 20 days. So this isn't as much a definite number as a minimum one. Page mentioning it. (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=623)
The time between the battle aftermath and the tank getting restarted is explicitly said to be "several days" here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=690).
They have the radio back during the trip to Jutland, so they would know about any extra delay with the boat.
When the tank breaks down for good, they are two weeks away from their extraction day (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=721).
The point I'm trying to make is that pickup day isn't necessarily Day 42 on the timeline, but could be a little later. It's possible as long as the "several days" of repairs plus the travel to Jutland last less than two weeks between them. I simplified my personal version of the timelime by assuming that any time "lost" in the "several days" would be "compensated" by an identical delay in the boat's arrival time compared to the "20 days" early estimate. It keeps me from thinking too hard about exactly how many days the repairs took, if anything.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 16, 2018, 07:10:23 PM
There's some pretty contradictory info about the seasons. Here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=298) Tjorborn says winter's rolling in, but only about a month later Emil says it'll be spring soon (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=730). It's very difficult to make that work, unless it took them several weeks to fix the Cat Tank, or Emil is an even bigger idiot than he sometimes seems ;).
As noted, the travel montage is canonically a couple of weeks. I've assumed this to be exactly 14 days but it could perhaps be trimmed back by a few. It does seem like an awfully long time to cover the distance involved even with breakdowns and side trips to collect books.
My timing on the "several days" after the battle is based on the 20 days to pickup deadline and the fixed point of two weeks to pickup in episode 721 - I assumed that Sigrun is being dramatic :)). However as Grade E cat pointed out the 20 days is a minimum (good catch there!), so some revision is almost certainly in order. Maybe two extra days of sitting still and the Cat Tank fires up on day 27?
Post by: JacobThomsen on March 18, 2018, 06:07:15 PM
Post by: thorny on March 18, 2018, 06:30:08 PM
I wonder whether what Reynir's looking freaked out about on the Friday page is a large and graphic crucifix -- not just a cross by itself, but one that shows Jesus dying on it.
Anybody living in a primarily Christian country sees those often enough not to notice them much. But Reynir knows nothing about Christianity. Think for a minute how you'd react if you'd never seen a crucifix before.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 18, 2018, 07:35:10 PM
Here's a sideways thought:
I wonder whether what Reynir's looking freaked out about on the Friday page is a large and graphic crucifix -- not just a cross by itself, but one that shows Jesus dying on it.
Anybody living in a primarily Christian country sees those often enough not to notice them much. But Reynir knows nothing about Christianity. Think for a minute how you'd react if you'd never seen a crucifix before.
Good thought! I remember once reading a post apocalyptic story that focused on exactly that point, with some explorers freaking out after discovering a catholic chapel with a particularly gruesome example.
A quick bit of Googling however suggests that the Danish Lutheran church (which we know Pastor A was a member of due to her funky collar) tends to use a plain cross rather than a full crucifix. If the church was built before the reformation it may still have an old style crucifix though.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 18, 2018, 09:25:59 PM
Post by: thorny on March 19, 2018, 11:11:20 AM
Maybe Reynir was just looking generally anxious, not freaked out by anything specific he was seeing.
Post by: urbicande on March 19, 2018, 12:41:11 PM
Anybody living in a primarily Christian country sees those often enough not to notice them much. But Reynir knows nothing about Christianity. Think for a minute how you'd react if you'd never seen a crucifix before.
I know that when my ex was giving birth to our younger son in a Catholic hospital (Mercy Medical Center here on Long Island) she wasn't particularly comforted by images of crucifixion. I suppose for Catholics it might be different but less so for Jews.
Post by: Mr_Plinkett on March 19, 2018, 07:19:10 PM
Post by: thorny on March 19, 2018, 10:02:37 PM
I had thought she was a ghost -- she and Onni seemed to agree that she's dead. But maybe Onni thinks the human part of the people who turned into trolls are dead? -- just read through the section again, and while Onni does seem sure that she's dead and she at first agrees, a few pages later she says she thinks she died but she can't really remember. (page 568, and then 571)
If that is her: I wonder how in control she is.
But if that is her, and she can help the ghosts finish dying and then let herself do so: can she also free into death the (other) people caught in trolls?
Post by: Grade E cat on March 20, 2018, 03:44:54 AM
Otherwise, that page gave me a sad thought: between only seeing trolls already changed and Tuuri dying before risking it happening to her, I think this page may be Reynir's first time really realizing that trolls used to be people.
However, I also have a question that is worth pondering: the "ghost" guess was legitimate in part because of what looked like Rash "cure" syringes on page 574. If they are indeed the "cure", how does one of the place's patients ends up becoming a troll in the first place? (besides the possibility of the stuff simply running out)
Post by: wavewright62 on March 20, 2018, 05:25:38 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on March 20, 2018, 07:08:08 AM
Post by: urbicande on March 20, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
Post by: Unlos on March 20, 2018, 04:42:24 PM
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/eb5513512ff44d083db1fef3cf055975/tumblr_p5whe0MAn91ud4cfso1_400.png)
Post by: Sc0ut on March 21, 2018, 06:15:44 AM
Double posting a bit here, but I made an edit of todays page. I am pretty convinced that the giant is pastor A... and I kinda hope Reynir will not walk away from the door.
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/eb5513512ff44d083db1fef3cf055975/tumblr_p5whe0MAn91ud4cfso1_400.png)
Congratulations Unlos, you managed to make a terrible page even worse O_O
Gonna have so many nightmares...
Post by: Unlos on March 21, 2018, 01:11:37 PM
Congratulations Unlos, you managed to make a terrible page even worse O_O
Gonna have so many nightmares...
Thank you, I aim to please!
Post by: thorny on March 21, 2018, 07:23:25 PM
But I suspect there's about to be plenty of freaking out done, if not by Kitty.
Post by: thorny on March 22, 2018, 06:33:58 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on March 22, 2018, 10:09:54 PM
Pssst -- hey guys. Aren't you making rather a lot of noise?Many churches are reknowned for their acoustics, it's always so uplifting to hear that delightful resonance. Makes you want to lift up your face to the heavens and...<mikkel> mother of God, what is that thing?</mikkel>
Post by: Antillanka on March 25, 2018, 10:13:37 PM
Many churches are reknowned for their acoustics, it's always so uplifting to hear that delightful resonance. Makes you want to lift up your face to the heavens and...<mikkel> mother of God, what is that thing?</mikkel>
Hahahaha I hope he doesn't check the closet without previous warning!
Post by: thorny on March 26, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
-- is it a closet, or did she take up residence in the confessional? Do churches of that type have a confessional?
Post by: Grade E cat on March 26, 2018, 10:55:24 AM
Post by: Róisín on March 26, 2018, 10:57:39 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on March 27, 2018, 12:14:50 AM
I'm partial to it being the room in which she invited Reynir and Onni for tea, which between its last use being more than a year ago and Minna's various quirks, ended up on the other side of the entrance compared to where it originally was.
That's what I figured. Pastor A has grown to fill the entire space.
Post by: Unlos on March 27, 2018, 05:30:48 AM
Look at p. 872, the partly ruined tower with the cross at the left from the main entrance. It matches position of the door in question, and it is the only place tall enough for the giant to reach so high into the light.
*Edit* I'm fairly certain it's not a Catholic church and so, no confessional.
Post by: Unlos on March 27, 2018, 05:54:27 AM
The church doesn't have the traditional cross shape, but many churches don't - which makes me wonder if it is based on an actual church that just had an inventive architect or if Minna in fact designed it.
Post by: thorny on March 28, 2018, 07:49:27 PM
It occurs to me -- apparently belief in Christianity does have power in the post-change world. Given that: I wonder why there was so thorough a shift away from Christianity that it's close to entirely forgotten? While some people might well have lost their faith due to the apocalypse and been looking for another one, it doesn't seem that everyone would have, unless outcomes were much better for believers in the non-Christian gods; and, if belief in the Christian god has enough power to allow the pastor to guide souls and to keep her own soul whole even inside a trollified body (which last is more than the pagan gods seem to be able to do), I don't see as much if any benefit to switching beliefs.
Post by: Hrollo on March 28, 2018, 09:59:59 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on March 29, 2018, 05:31:35 AM
I kind of like the bell tower suggestion; but I don't have a clear enough sense of the layout of the space to tell whether it's right.
It occurs to me -- apparently belief in Christianity does have power in the post-change world. Given that: I wonder why there was so thorough a shift away from Christianity that it's close to entirely forgotten? While some people might well have lost their faith due to the apocalypse and been looking for another one, it doesn't seem that everyone would have, unless outcomes were much better for believers in the non-Christian gods; and, if belief in the Christian god has enough power to allow the pastor to guide souls and to keep her own soul whole even inside a trollified body (which last is more than the pagan gods seem to be able to do), I don't see as much if any benefit to switching beliefs.
I don't think it's confirmed yet that Pastor A's power comes from her Christian belief. It might, though perhaps people just have natural mage inclinations regardless of their religion. As for the "benefit of switching beliefs", with the risk of delving into a too serious topic, I don't think choosing a religion is such a logical affair for most people. You either believe or you don't. (Choosing to participate in rituals is a bit of a different matter, but irrelevant here.)
Also, personally, I wouldn't call having one's conscience trapped in a troll body for 90 years a "benefit", but maybe that's just me :)
Post by: thorny on March 29, 2018, 09:38:10 AM
I don't think it's confirmed yet that Pastor A's power comes from her Christian belief. It might, though perhaps people just have natural mage inclinations regardless of their religion.
At the least, however, her being Christian rather than having converted to any of the other possibilities hasn't prevented her from having that power.
As for the "benefit of switching beliefs", with the risk of delving into a too serious topic, I don't think choosing a religion is such a logical affair for most people. You either believe or you don't.
That's true.
It just seems to me odd to have Christianity have disappeared so thoroughly in only 90 years, when many people have hung on to their belief through many other disasters. If the other gods were actually manifesting and actively helping people while there was no sign of the Christian god(s) doing that, that might provide some sort of explanation, even though belief's not generally based on logical thinking. But if that's not what happened --
Maybe it was political? The conversion to Christianity in that part of the world was in large part political in origin, after all; and the belief may have followed practice, as it may have done in the earlier switch.
Also, personally, I wouldn't call having one's conscience trapped in a troll body for 90 years a "benefit", but maybe that's just me
She seems to be protected from the worst impacts of that. She's not begging for help, like the other trolls; and, if we go by her conversation with Reynir and Onni in the dream world, she didn't seem to be in pain or in despair, or even to realize that she is in a troll body -- just to be unable to clearly remember what happened, and to have mostly lost her sense of time, so that she doesn't realize it's been anywhere near as long as 90 years.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 29, 2018, 07:58:31 PM
Tolkien: I have painstakingly crafted all these languages for my OCs, in all of their individual dialects and historical permutations over the thousands of years of backstory. Each syllable has meaning and poetry, every name lovingly crafted.
Now I can write my epic story bringing together nine characters of all these different races and cultures.
Only one of them speaks more than one language....
Screw it, they all conveniently speak a lingua franca, Westron, with no dialectical or accent differentiation.
Minna: I have painstakingly researched the linguistic relationships of all of the Indo-European and Finno-Ugric languages, in all their individual dialects and historical permutations over a thousand years or so. I have lovingly crafted a graphic representation of this, to illustrate how different the two language trees are.
Now I can write my epic story bringing together six characters of all of these different languages and cultures.
Only one of them speaks all of the languages...
MuhuHAHAHAha! Hold my beer...
Post by: Antillanka on March 29, 2018, 08:50:06 PM
(apropos of not much) Somebody with more time than I can put this onto the current Gru meme.
Tolkien: I have painstakingly crafted all these languages for my OCs, in all of their individual dialects and historical permutations over the thousands of years of backstory. Each syllable has meaning and poetry, every name lovingly crafted.
Now I can write my epic story bringing together nine characters of all these different races and cultures.
Only one of them speaks more than one language....
Screw it, they all conveniently speak a lingua franca, Westron, with no dialectical or accent differentiation.
Minna: I have painstakingly researched the linguistic relationships of all of the Indo-European and Finno-Ugric languages, in all their individual dialects and historical permutations over a thousand years or so. I have lovingly crafted a graphic representation of this, to illustrate how different the two language trees are.
Now I can write my epic story bringing together six characters of all of these different languages and cultures.
Only one of them speaks all of the languages...
MuhuHAHAHAha! Hold my beer...
BWAHAHAHAHA! Well, just imagine how much more impossible it would've been to have a happy ending in TLoTR if there hadn't been a lingua franca!
Post by: silverceleb on March 30, 2018, 05:50:56 PM
I have so many feels about Mikkel and Sigrun chilling after the kid has gone to bed. So many. Give me more adult talks and I'll die happily.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on March 30, 2018, 07:16:25 PM
Screw it, they all conveniently speak a lingua franca, Westron, with no dialectical or accent differentiation.I'm kinda surprised Noodles didn't already jump in on this, but...
Examples of Westron dialectal differences Tolkien put in the Appendices to LoTR:
Everyone in Gondor thought Pippin was a prince or some such because he only used informal pronouns--because the Westron of the Shire had lost the formal pronouns;
and
Merry and Théoden King had historical and etymological conversations on how Shire Westron and the Westron of the Rohirrim had retained many old-fashioned or archaic words the Westron of Gondor had lost.
There are others; Tolkien was too serious a philologist to exclude such things altogether, even when he cut them from the main plot.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 30, 2018, 11:21:41 PM
I'm kinda surprised Noodles didn't already jump in on this, but...
Examples of Westron dialectal differences Tolkien put in the Appendices to LoTR:
Everyone in Gondor thought Pippin was a prince or some such because he only used informal pronouns--because the Westron of the Shire had lost the formal pronouns;
and
Merry and Théoden King had historical and etymological conversations on how Shire Westron and the Westron of the Rohirrim had retained many old-fashioned or archaic words the Westron of Gondor had lost.
There are others; Tolkien was too serious a philologist to exclude such things altogether, even when he cut them from the main plot.
I stand corrected. *bows* I also have not considered whether Minna likes beer.
Post by: thorny on April 02, 2018, 09:20:35 PM
she didn't seem [ . . . ] even to realize that she is in a troll body
Whoops, I was wrong about that one.
'Who were I'?? Is that a typo sort of error, or some sort of indication of what's going on here? Is our pastor a composite mind?
-- and what a comfortable looking spirit dog! quite properly pleased with himself, too.
Post by: Abprallen on April 03, 2018, 08:26:29 AM
Whoops, I was wrong about that one.
'Who were I'?? Is that a typo sort of error, or some sort of indication of what's going on here? Is our pastor a composite mind?
-- and what a comfortable looking spirit dog! quite properly pleased with himself, too.
tbh I read it as a past tense way of saying 'who was I', but it only really works in that kind of context - "Who were I to do this?". It also seems to be formal, the way I'd expect a pastor to speak. My vicars spoke like that during the school services when I was a kid.
Post by: Unlos on April 03, 2018, 12:17:07 PM
I'm leaning on the explanation given here:
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/cliffsnotes/subjects/writing/which-is-correct-if-i-was-or-if-i-were-and-why (https://www.cliffsnotes.com/cliffsnotes/subjects/writing/which-is-correct-if-i-was-or-if-i-were-and-why)
Post by: thorny on April 03, 2018, 01:05:51 PM
It may just be a grammar error. But it's not any sort of proper formal English, unless the speaker is plural. The Queen of England might use it in formal language, because as I understand it the Queen when speaking formally uses the plural for herself; but a pastor's not the Queen.
ETA: Unlos, the site you cite says:
Quote
Subjunctive: A verb in the subjunctive mood deals with hypothetical situations or with ideas that are contrary to fact.
Post by: Unlos on April 03, 2018, 03:09:23 PM
It's not a singular past tense, unless it were in the subjunctive. But that's not a proper use of the subjunctive (which I did just use in the second half of my first sentence.)Hmmm, hmm, subjunctive confuses me - it has almost completely disappeared from norwegian. I became almost familiar with it when I was learning spansih, but I've sadly forgotten a lot of that. I admit I'm pretty blank on when it's used in english.
It may just be a grammar error. But it's not any sort of proper formal English, unless the speaker is plural. The Queen of England might use it in formal language, because as I understand it the Queen when speaking formally uses the plural for herself; but a pastor's not the Queen.
ETA: Unlos, the site you cite says:
So (I do love geeking out about languages) unless she were the queen, she should have been using was?
Post by: thorny on April 03, 2018, 03:29:30 PM
Hmmm, hmm, subjunctive confuses me - it has almost completely disappeared from norwegian. I became almost familiar with it when I was learning spansih, but I've sadly forgotten a lot of that. I admit I'm pretty blank on when it's used in english.
It actually isn't used much in English any longer, either; at least in practice. I'm probably one of about six people left in the USA who still winces a little inwardly whenever somebody says 'I wish I was'. And I do usually try to keep it inward.
So (I do love geeking out about languages) unless she were the queen, she should have been using was?
Assuming the speaker's singular, yes.
Which is why I was wondering whether Minna meant that to indicate that the speaker's not singular: that is, maybe not only Pastor A, but some composite of the remains of multiple people.
Post by: Unlos on April 03, 2018, 03:41:34 PM
It actually isn't used much in English any longer, either; at least in practice. I'm probably one of about six people left in the USA who still winces a little inwardly whenever somebody says 'I wish I was'. And I do usually try to keep it inward.
Assuming the speaker's singular, yes.
Which is why I was wondering whether Minna meant that to indicate that the speaker's not singular: that is, maybe not only Pastor A, but some composite of the remains of multiple people.
I think she only meant a formal/hypothetical version (or a typo) but who knows - maybe? It's a fun speculation, anyway.
(After my last comment, I've been visiting the comment section from todays page and see it's been discussed there, too: http://disq.us/p/1rfztya (http://disq.us/p/1rfztya) )
Post by: wavewright62 on April 03, 2018, 04:25:32 PM
The language geekery makes me happy. :tuuri:
Post by: Hrollo on April 03, 2018, 06:01:42 PM
Post by: thorny on April 03, 2018, 06:19:20 PM
Although when you say "heck you!" (or some other equivalent, feel the blanks), it is technically a subjunctive (it cannot be an imperative since an imperative doesn't admit a subject pronoun - otherwise it would rather be "heck yourself!")
You've succeeded in coming up with a grammar rule I don't think I ever heard of!
This is fun!
-- however, in that construction it's difficult to tell whether the person saying it is using the subjunctive or not.
Though one could probably confound the person doing the swearing by asking them whether they meant to indicate a subjunctive --
Post by: Hrollo on April 03, 2018, 10:29:29 PM
Post by: ZanarNaryon on April 08, 2018, 04:11:27 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on April 08, 2018, 04:49:57 PM
So I was rereading page 333, and I realized something. Onni refers to something that's searching for them. We still don't know what "It" is, do we?No, no clue, but beaucoup speculation. Another thread where theories on It are first hashed out: https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=75.45 (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=75.45)
Mine? I now wonder whether some member of the Hotakainen family is in a similar situation to Pastor A - Rashed, a troll/giant, but has kept some semblence of self.
In Tuuri's flashback, she stated that 'pretty much' only Ensi and Lalli were immune. We don't know if either or both of her sons possessed any magical ability. What if it was one of her sons and/or their wives that were caught in a Rash outbreak, and Ensi attempted a magical treatment in desperation? There could have been enough to keep the sense of self intact, but nothing else.
Post by: thorny on April 23, 2018, 09:03:57 PM
am I the only one seeing a cross in those beams?
Post by: wavewright62 on April 23, 2018, 10:34:51 PM
Taking a wild jump to most recent page --
am I the only one seeing a cross in those beams?
*squints* Mm-mebbe?
What I suddenly notice is that the four of them are standing in a shadow, which ordinarily would mean danger.
Post by: thorny on May 21, 2018, 09:29:26 AM
But if she thinks they might have been eaten, what does she think killed the giant?
Post by: Grade E cat on May 21, 2018, 10:13:01 AM
Post by: thorny on May 21, 2018, 11:28:31 AM
Her backtracking is shown in the two first pages of Chapter 18.
You're right, of course. I think I somehow missed the second of those pages entirely; I don't remember it at all. The first I remember seeing, but I didn't realize that she was at the scene; I thought she was just looking out over the general area of the possible backtrail, though now that I look at it again it seems more obvious.
Yes, the crushed or drowned options would certainly have been possible. And I suppose that the bodies might have then been eaten by something else; or that she might have meant that one of them might have been eaten before the other killed the troll.
Post by: wavewright62 on May 22, 2018, 03:33:45 PM
That's interesting. I hadn't realized Sigrun had backtracked all the way to the location where Lalli and Emil were attacked.If we wanted to get technical, she's including the possibility that *one* of them was eaten and the other drowned etc?
But if she thinks they might have been eaten, what does she think killed the giant?
Post by: Grade E cat on May 24, 2018, 02:31:48 AM
Post by: thorny on May 24, 2018, 10:17:46 PM
Reynir can travel from one dreamspace to another. And Reyner can still get to Lalli's dreamspace.
Lalli's problem seems to be that he's not in his own dreamspace, but in Emil's.
If Reynir can find out that that's what happened, can he get to Emil's dreamspace, get Lalli, and guide him back to where he belongs?
Post by: Grade E cat on May 25, 2018, 02:47:22 AM
My own thought about this page is that the map kind of looks like Emil may have been eating it. If it's the case, I wonder how it compares to spoiled food and candle soup.
Post by: thorny on May 25, 2018, 08:47:13 AM
From what I read on the page discussions, this seems to be the general idea. I'm personally wondering if getting the info will be enough, or if there is going to be some kind of obstacle that will keep him from going there and require getting Onni involved.
And I wonder whether whatever It is that's presumably still after Onni and Lalli will show up --
Post by: JoB on May 25, 2018, 04:05:18 PM
I'm personally wondering if getting the info will be enough, or if there is going to be some kind of obstacle that will keep him from going there and require getting Onni involved.Like, a sparkly force field around the head in question? :P
Post by: Grade E cat on May 28, 2018, 07:53:04 AM
Either that or my currently hyper-active brain had great timing in getting me on the "Could there be more trolls like Anne?" train over the week-end.
Incidentally, I'm having a small fixation on the narrative reason that single speechbubble manages to be such a whammy. It's recognizable because it looks virtually identical to Anne's, but Anne's was identifiable as belonging to something harmless in the first place because it shares similarities with the speechbubbles Lalli has had ever since he got stuck in Emil's body.
Post by: thorny on May 28, 2018, 09:43:43 AM
I wonder about a troll dog in its remembering-not-to-bite-humans form?
I also wonder whether it's something asking if Emil and Lalli have food; or asking if they are food; or, just possibly, offering them food.
Post by: Anna on May 29, 2018, 09:25:49 PM
Post by: midwestmutt on May 30, 2018, 08:41:26 AM
Post by: urbicande on May 31, 2018, 09:47:58 AM
And yet it's speech bubble is white.
Does that mean that the white bubble is indicative of a higher level of intelligence in the troll rather than just completely trapped?
Post by: thorny on May 31, 2018, 09:52:06 PM
-- and it's also got unggh those teeth --
It doesn't seem to be in pain, or in any obvious distress except for hunger. That's also unlike the trolls we've seen before.
Post by: Hearth on May 31, 2018, 11:28:29 PM
It's got functioning brains enough to dress itself in a sun shield; if not an entirely effective one.
I originally though that was some sort of leaf-camouflage/armor growth that was part of it, but looking more closely, it does look more like sun protection that it intentionally built. The concept of a more intelligent, seemingly a little more sentient, type of troll is kind of scary, even if it’s more, erm...friendly...than most and not as aggressive, plus, as mentioned before, it seems quite happy and not distressed or trapped. It’ll be interesting to see exactly what makes this little guy different (other than what we’ve already seen) and why.
Post by: urbicande on June 04, 2018, 12:04:08 PM
I originally though that was some sort of leaf-camouflage/armor growth that was part of it, but looking more closely, it does look more like sun protection that it intentionally built. The concept of a more intelligent, seemingly a little more sentient, type of troll is kind of scary, even if it’s more, erm...friendly...than most and not as aggressive, plus, as mentioned before, it seems quite happy and not distressed or trapped. It’ll be interesting to see exactly what makes this little guy different (other than what we’ve already seen) and why.
it doesn't unthinkingly wanting to eat Emil and Lalli. It *knows* it wants to eat Emil and Lalli.
Post by: thorny on June 04, 2018, 02:42:50 PM
Lalli presumably knows more about it than I do.
Post by: Grade E cat on June 08, 2018, 06:14:42 AM
Brief exposure to sunlight was enough for a dog's mind to be restored to an extent in Chapter 7. I'm wondering if the regular partial exposure to sunlight had a more gradually acting version of this on the dusklings, and they have white speechbubbles because they accidentally got rid of whatever the Rash does to the mind over time.
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2018, 07:53:15 AM
I just had a thought about the dusklings. Lalli mentioned that their hide only offers partial protection from light. This could mean that they are exposed to very small doses of sunlight on a regular basis. I'm thinking along the lines of not enough to make them retreat back to shelter, but still enough to have some kind of effect, like some kind of "getting a suburn on an overcast day" phenomenon.Hm… sounds plausible. I like it!
Brief exposure to sunlight was enough for a dog's mind to be restored to an extent in Chapter 7. I'm wondering if the regular partial exposure to sunlight had a more gradually acting version of this on the dusklings, and they have white speechbubbles because they accidentally got rid of whatever the Rash does to the mind over time.
Post by: Zami on June 08, 2018, 02:12:13 PM
I just had a thought about the dusklings. Lalli mentioned that their hide only offers partial protection from light. This could mean that they are exposed to very small doses of sunlight on a regular basis. I'm thinking along the lines of not enough to make them retreat back to shelter, but still enough to have some kind of effect, like some kind of "getting a sunburn on an overcast day" phenomenon.Pastor Anne wasn't being hurt by sunlight too if I remember correctly. Maybe the more corrupted by the Rash the mind is, the less resistant it is to sunlight? The dusklings seem pretty intelligent, with their sun covers, forming packs and ability to recognize danger.
Brief exposure to sunlight was enough for a dog's mind to be restored to an extent in Chapter 7. I'm wondering if the regular partial exposure to sunlight had a more gradually acting version of this on the dusklings, and they have white speechbubbles because they accidentally got rid of whatever the Rash does to the mind over time.
I was also thinking... given how exposition to the sunlight for an hour can replace the usual decontamination process - it all seems to be connected to the fact that sunlight weakens the Rash. What if when it takes over completely, it makes the person "think" that the sunlight hurts? Kind of like the parasites that alter their hosts' behavior patterns, making insects climb up to exposed places so the parasites can infect birds, or making insects drown in the water so the parasite can reproduce, etc etc
Post by: Antillanka on June 09, 2018, 02:39:50 PM
Pastor Anne wasn't being hurt by sunlight too if I remember correctly. Maybe the more corrupted by the Rash the mind is, the less resistant it is to sunlight? The dusklings seem pretty intelligent, with their sun covers, forming packs and ability to recognize danger.
I was also thinking... given how exposition to the sunlight for an hour can replace the usual decontamination process - it all seems to be connected to the fact that sunlight weakens the Rash. What if when it takes over completely, it makes the person "think" that the sunlight hurts? Kind of like the parasites that alter their hosts' behavior patterns, making insects climb up to exposed places so the parasites can infect birds, or making insects drown in the water so the parasite can reproduce, etc etc
That's a very good point you got there!
Post by: wavewright62 on June 09, 2018, 05:54:44 PM
I just had a thought about the dusklings. Lalli mentioned that their hide only offers partial protection from light. This could mean that they are exposed to very small doses of sunlight on a regular basis. I'm thinking along the lines of not enough to make them retreat back to shelter, but still enough to have some kind of effect, like some kind of "getting a sunburn on an overcast day" phenomenon.
Brief exposure to sunlight was enough for a dog's mind to be restored to an extent in Chapter 7. I'm wondering if the regular partial exposure to sunlight had a more gradually acting version of this on the dusklings, and they have white speechbubbles because they accidentally got rid of whatever the Rash does to the mind over time.
I really like this line of thought - it fits.
Pastor Anne wasn't being hurt by sunlight too if I remember correctly. Maybe the more corrupted by the Rash the mind is, the less resistant it is to sunlight? The dusklings seem pretty intelligent, with their sun covers, forming packs and ability to recognize danger.
I was also thinking... given how exposition to the sunlight for an hour can replace the usual decontamination process - it all seems to be connected to the fact that sunlight weakens the Rash. What if when it takes over completely, it makes the person "think" that the sunlight hurts? Kind of like the parasites that alter their hosts' behavior patterns, making insects climb up to exposed places so the parasites can infect birds, or making insects drown in the water so the parasite can reproduce, etc etc
This too is quite plausible. :mikkel:
Post by: Róisín on June 09, 2018, 06:20:18 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 10, 2018, 06:15:07 AM
I just had a thought about the dusklings. Lalli mentioned that their hide only offers partial protection from light. This could mean that they are exposed to very small doses of sunlight on a regular basis. I'm thinking along the lines of not enough to make them retreat back to shelter, but still enough to have some kind of effect, like some kind of "getting a sunburn on an overcast day" phenomenon.
Brief exposure to sunlight was enough for a dog's mind to be restored to an extent in Chapter 7. I'm wondering if the regular partial exposure to sunlight had a more gradually acting version of this on the dusklings, and they have white speechbubbles because they accidentally got rid of whatever the Rash does to the mind over time.
I really like this train of thought!
Post by: Zami on June 10, 2018, 09:17:28 AM
Ah, like zombie ant fungus and spider nematodes?Yes, exactly! I mean, it might be a bit too far-fetched, but these creatures are so fascinating, it would be cool to see something similar in the comic.
Post by: thorny on June 11, 2018, 10:10:09 AM
-- "I can't do any of that" -- he could, of course, if he abandoned Lalli's body.
I don't think the thought even enters his head. Which says something about Emil.
Post by: Sc0ut on June 11, 2018, 02:50:06 PM
All kinds of interesting thoughts!
-- "I can't do any of that" -- he could, of course, if he abandoned Lalli's body.
I don't think the thought even enters his head. Which says something about Emil.
I agree that he wouldn't ever consider leaving Lalli behind, but I'm also pretty sure Emil physically can't run until sunrise, either :p
Post by: thorny on June 11, 2018, 03:06:55 PM
But he most likely wouldn't have to. He'd only have to outrun a lot of shortlegged things that until dark are going to be slowed by having to work their way around through shaded spots. An alternate walk/jog after a first burst of run might well be enough. They may be faster than they look; but he'd sure have a better chance of pulling it off if he didn't have to also drag or carry Lalli.
Post by: wavewright62 on June 11, 2018, 05:40:15 PM
Post by: Zami on June 12, 2018, 02:31:37 AM
Post by: thorny on June 20, 2018, 09:05:10 PM
What a place for a chapter break!
Post by: Buteo on June 21, 2018, 02:04:36 AM
Akkk!
What a place for a chapter break!
Cliffhanger on steroids.
Post by: Grade E cat on June 21, 2018, 02:24:44 AM
Post by: Jethan on July 03, 2018, 11:43:01 PM
They started out so cute and now they seem like the most terrifying monsters Minna has created. Argh!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 04, 2018, 10:54:06 PM
There is also the Slowworm (Anguis fragilis), which is a variety of legless lizard. I assume Lalli would simply regard this as a 'weird snake'.
Post by: thorny on July 07, 2018, 06:20:02 AM
Presuming they get through to morning --
Post by: Solokov on July 09, 2018, 09:33:19 PM
Post by: JoB on July 11, 2018, 03:19:53 PM
do we have casualty numbers from the over-run during the reclamation effort?No, but the Danes supposedly inscribed the names of all the ones fallen at Kastrup on the inside of the Drogden tunnel's gate (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=215).
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 12, 2018, 12:52:51 AM
unrelated to the current bit of the story, do we have casualty numbers from the over-run during the reclamation effort?
No, but the Danes supposedly inscribed the names of all the ones fallen at Kastrup on the inside of the Drogden tunnel's gate (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=215).
Some rough pixel counting, combined with a lot of squinting and not a few assumptions leads me to conclude there's about 490 names engraved on the gates and the arch above it.
Post by: thorny on July 12, 2018, 08:28:41 AM
And, if so, whether it'll cause them to at least partly retreat?
Post by: wavewright62 on July 13, 2018, 07:31:44 PM
I wonder whether the notoros will think -- as I did at first, and as some others in the comments apparently did -- that that was a gunshot?
And, if so, whether it'll cause them to at least partly retreat?
I'm one of the ones who thinks it was a gunshot or other such projectile and not a head-bonk. While we have seen trolls leaping great distances without regards to physics (Leaftroll I'mm looking at you), I still doubt that that is what this one did, based on the tower they were forming.
Post by: elekia on July 14, 2018, 12:09:20 AM
Compare them to some of the other formerly human trolls the team has met, and they look quite different, like leaf troll (I think that's what it was called) or the one that was clinging to the ceiling in that hospital way back. Leaf troll seemed somewhat intelligent, burrowing under the snow, but couldn't really speak, and the ceiling troll acted more like an animal.
The transformations' effects seemed random at first, but now we're seeing specific types, which I find pretty interesting.
Post by: thorny on July 14, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on July 14, 2018, 06:00:25 PM
I have no theories on what affects it; but I wonder whether the Notoros were ever humans at all, or anything other than trolls. They show no signs of the distress of the trolls that used to be humans or other creatures. And they seem to be pretty close to identically shaped -- not as if they're the misshapen results of conversion, but as if this shape is normal for them.
I'm inclined to think that too. The segue into black speech is yet another puzzle, rather than an answer.
Post by: Elleth on July 17, 2018, 05:18:47 PM
I have no theories on what affects it; but I wonder whether the Notoros were ever humans at all, or anything other than trolls. They show no signs of the distress of the trolls that used to be humans or other creatures. And they seem to be pretty close to identically shaped -- not as if they're the misshapen results of conversion, but as if this shape is normal for them.
That's what I've been thinking, too. I've tossed around some ideas in the comments over time, that maybe the luonto/fylgja/other spirit-type companion creature of a person influences the shape of a troll (not so sure about that now, might as well be random or influenced by environmental factors, especially re: the Sjödraug adapting to underwater life), but that the instances of identical (or near-identical) trolls have never been human, and are a product of either nesting or budding off a parent organism (that may have been human once). So far they've all appeared in close proximity and moved in groups - the Splamps, the Squidwolves, and now the Notoros. In case of Splamps and Notoros we didn't see the parent organism (yet, in case of the Notoros? Maybe it's the eye thing Lalli is set against on the chapter cover, if that isn't the Hotakainens' "It"); in case of the Squidwolves it may have been the giant. That still doesn't answer the question of humanity, but assuming we're looking at a hivemind of the troll "siblings" that they share with their parent... maybe the Notoros' parent is a related case to Pastor A. who managed to hold on to some humanity, but not enough to combat troll instincts completely?
Okay, maybe I'm just overthinking.
Post by: wavewright62 on July 19, 2018, 11:21:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fCYsu95.png)
There is some breaking through to be done in both worlds. I hope it will happen in one world, and fear it will happen in the other - I suspect it will happen in both.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 27, 2018, 08:01:13 AM
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on July 27, 2018, 03:49:20 PM
Couldn't help but notice that the orange thingy that may or may not be "it" is still relatively close as far as we know. I really hope that call for help had some kind of property that made Onni the only one able to hear it.Speculation: it's Reynir, who charges in against the monster before Onni can show up, thus getting back into Onni's good graces without even trying.
Post by: Mebediel on July 27, 2018, 06:45:46 PM
Speculation: it's Reynir, who charges in against the monster before Onni can show up, thus getting back into Onni's good graces without even trying.
Reynir showing up and saving the day would be absolutely fantastic. Seeing all three mages working together
Post by: wavewright62 on July 28, 2018, 02:33:41 AM
Sounds like good times are about to roll, if you can call blood-curdling magickal mayhem 'good times'?
Post by: JoB on July 30, 2018, 06:05:08 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on July 30, 2018, 06:33:48 PM
... why is the comment section of page 940 closed already? Did I miss another Kung Fu Storm?
I don't know, it was abruptly closed off about an hour ago.
I suspect it was because I posted a mild spoiler which I thought was pretty vague but maybe it wasn't & Minna's offended and now I'm convinced it's all my fault and I've deleted the comment I am so sorry if it was me...
Okay, it wasn't me, Minna said it was a mistake with the opening date. Still, no more spoilers for me!
And in other news, that malevolent spirit cracking Lalli's air bubble... O_O nuuuu
Post by: Mebediel on July 30, 2018, 09:15:09 PM
And in other news, that malevolent spirit cracking Lalli's air bubble... O_O nuuuu
Strange how the bubble is being cracked instead of popped. Will it be a significant detail, or is it just a thing?
Post by: Sc0ut on July 31, 2018, 12:29:15 AM
And in other news, that malevolent spirit cracking Lalli's air bubble... O_O nuuuu
Strange how the bubble is being cracked instead of popped. Will it be a significant detail, or is it just a thing?
As usual, not sure if my reading is correct, but the way I see it, it's not just his air bubble that's being burst (that one appears as a small, irregular blob around his head in previous panels), but so is his magical shield (the large sphere around his whole body with the reddish tinge). I suppose the cracking sound comes either from the latter.... or indeed his bones. Now it's anyone's guess what it means to be injured in dream space, but it can't be good O.O
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 31, 2018, 12:45:16 AM
Now it's anyone's guess what it means to be injured in dream space, but it can't be good O.O
Well we know when Owl-Onni's ear got nicked in the dream world the changeling children chopped off a chunk of his real ear. Cracked dream bones could maybe cause some furniture to topple over onto real Lalli bones :(
Post by: wavewright62 on July 31, 2018, 12:52:41 AM
Strange how the bubble is being cracked instead of popped. Will it be a significant detail, or is it just a thing?
(I tend to think it sounds more dramatic and painful this way, as opposed to what a squeezed submerged bubble would usually do. Usually it would just blooop deform a bit, or blrorrp divide into two. As masterful as Minna is with sound effects, this prospect is more hilarious than suspenseful.)
Post by: Róisín on July 31, 2018, 01:12:56 AM
Cracking both the air bubble and the shield might do similar things, or induce the breaking of bones from some 'natural' cause, or induce a stroke?
Post by: Purple Wyrm on July 31, 2018, 01:45:50 AM
Wyrm, from the incident with Onni's ear it looks as though Minna is using the same rules as apply in many our-world magical traditions: damage to the spirit is reflected in the flesh. For example, someone drowning in the dreamworld might choke on their spit because they are unconscious and haven't been put in the 'recovery position' that one learns about in first aid courses, or their house might flood, or they might fall asleep in the bath and drown.
Cracking both the air bubble and the shield might do similar things, or induce the breaking of bones from some 'natural' cause, or induce a stroke?
Yes, that's what I was thinking. It's just difficult to think of a 'natural' way for bones to spontaneously break.
Maybe a particularly heavy notoro flies through the window and lands on Lalli?
Post by: Róisín on July 31, 2018, 02:35:57 AM
Post by: Sc0ut on July 31, 2018, 02:56:07 AM
Post by: JoB on July 31, 2018, 11:36:37 AM
Maybe a particularly heavy notoro flies through the window and lands on Lalli?We have a clumsy Swede currently trying to tango with them to do that kinda job. Remember Doc Doormat?
Post by: Grade E cat on July 31, 2018, 12:16:11 PM
PS: Writing the above down made me think of this, if anyone has four minutes to kill (sorry, not sorry):
Post by: Mebediel on August 03, 2018, 12:05:39 AM
My headcanon mill churned up something over more cruel: Emil accidentally causes the damage while trying to shield Lalli from whatever will first looks like it's going to cause it.That would be so so sad, but if Emil brings Lalli back alive, then it's okay overall. As long as they both make it.
Quote
PS: Writing the above down made me think of this, if anyone has four minutes to kill (sorry, not sorry):Watching that scene again gave me chills. I never considered that [HTTYD spoilers I guess?]
/>
Spoiler: show
Post by: Kis on August 06, 2018, 04:42:49 PM
Eh? I'm almost sure it has always been blue no matter what
Post by: wavewright62 on August 07, 2018, 03:07:40 PM
Waaaait. The embroidery on Lalli's tunic is red now? I realised it only after the stream, yes
Eh? I'm almost sure it has always been blue no matter what
Hmmm, quite, good catch. Maybe we'll just chalk it up to being an image out of continuity?
Post by: Kis on August 07, 2018, 03:36:56 PM
Quote
Maybe we'll just chalk it up to being an image out of continuity?
Of course, we have no choice here ;D But I do hope it will be explained, I'm bad at speculating and the suspense is killing me
Post by: Hearth on August 07, 2018, 10:11:46 PM
Waaaait. The embroidery on Lalli's tunic is red now? I realised it only after the stream, yes
Eh? I'm almost sure it has always been blue no matter what
One headcanon I’ve developed is that the design of mages’ clothing in the dreamspace can fluctuate—not dramatic changes, but small ones like the color of an accent piece or some other detail. I have noticed slight variations in Lalli’s dream clothing between some different scenes, which it’s entirely possible is due to Minna drawing it differently, but I like my explanation for preserving continuity (plus I think I saw that it was confirmed in one of the streams that mage’s clothes don’t have real-world counterparts, which gives this theory a little bit more credibility? Maybe?) :)
Post by: Grade E cat on August 08, 2018, 03:00:19 AM
Blue version is last seen on page 909, during the brief glimpse of Lalli in Emil's dreamspace (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=909). The lining on Lalli's tunic has been more or less red from the Chapter 21 cover onwards.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 08, 2018, 04:47:29 PM
I tried to track down when, exactly, the color had changed.Conclusion:
Blue version is last seen on page 909, during the brief glimpse of Lalli in Emil's dreamspace (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=909). The lining on Lalli's tunic has been more or less red from the Chapter 21 cover onwards.
Good sleuthing, 99!
Post by: Mebediel on August 09, 2018, 11:01:06 AM
One headcanon I’ve developed is that the design of mages’ clothing in the dreamspace can fluctuate—not dramatic changes, but small ones like the color of an accent piece or some other detail. I have noticed slight variations in Lalli’s dream clothing between some different scenes, which it’s entirely possible is due to Minna drawing it differently, but I like my explanation for preserving continuity (plus I think I saw that it was confirmed in one of the streams that mage’s clothes don’t have real-world counterparts, which gives this theory a little bit more credibility? Maybe?) :)That would make a lot of sense given Minna’s statement in the stream the other day that the dream clothes are subconsciously (unconsciously?) created. I’m curious to know why the lining changed recently, but I also don’t want to attempt a psychoanalysis :P
Post by: thorny on August 09, 2018, 10:14:33 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 10, 2018, 01:45:30 AM
Post by: Kis on August 10, 2018, 04:04:58 AM
On the other note: in the archive with thumbnails (http://www.sssscomic.com/mainimages/) there's already a thumbnail for the next page. I see an arm above the water on it. Promising
Post by: Mebediel on August 10, 2018, 08:11:51 AM
For me he's always been a pretty boy :PThe prettiest boi
Quote
On the other note: in the archive with thumbnails (http://www.sssscomic.com/mainimages/) there's already a thumbnail for the next page. I see an arm above the water on it. PromisingOh cool I didn’t even know that page existed! Time to get my hopes up about a rescue ;D
Post by: thorny on August 10, 2018, 08:59:30 AM
Post by: thorny on August 12, 2018, 09:07:35 PM
Did he see the swan or the bubbles, I wonder?
Post by: wavewright62 on August 13, 2018, 01:15:16 AM
The stillness of the look they exchange gets me right in the feels.
Post by: silverceleb on August 13, 2018, 04:30:21 AM
Finnish mages looking at each other dramatically while remining silent has to be a Thing, or maybe it's just a Hotakainen mage Thing. Well anyway it gets me every time ;;;
Post by: thorny on August 13, 2018, 08:40:46 AM
Maybe he will by the next page, though! -- or maybe next page we'll be back to Emil. Minna does love to leave us hanging.
Post by: Kis on August 13, 2018, 10:59:40 AM
thorny, I'm thinking Onni saw the bubbles first and then the Swan appeared as he was flying to the spot
Still, the page is great, as has already been said many times. I've spent a lot of time looking at it while listening to Cynic, and I think the first 50 seconds of "True Hallucination Speak" fit right in. Probably because I tend to associate things with something completely different and irrelevant, but nevertheless
Post by: thorny on August 13, 2018, 09:45:03 PM
I thought Lalli was unconscious, no?
I don't think at that point; his eyes are open, and he looks, at least to me, like he's focusing.
I think he may well be unconscious on the next page, though. I wonder whether that explains his relative size next to Onni in the last couple of panels?
Post by: Grade E cat on August 14, 2018, 02:35:38 AM
Concerning the difference in relative sizes, I think the two last panels may be Onni's equivalent of doing what Lalli did on this page (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=212), except that he can make the animal-shaped aura much bigger than his physical body.
Post by: Mebediel on August 14, 2018, 09:57:33 AM
I think it would be both narratively appropriate and funny to have Onni be in such a rush that he lands with Lalli in the first safe area he spots, without checking whose it is, and it turning out to be Reynir's safe area. This way, Reynir would be quickly made aware of Lalli's survival and we would have Onni "breaking into" Reynir's space for once.That would be so, so funny. Poor Reynir would be so confused, though. “I thought you were mad at me...?”
Post by: JoB on August 14, 2018, 04:15:22 PM
That would be so, so funny. Poor Reynir would be so confused, though. “I thought you were mad at me...?”"I AM!! DON'T THEY TEACH YOU HOW TO PUT UP %&§#!! PROPER RUNWAY LIGHTS IN ICELAND!?!?!"
Post by: wavewright62 on August 14, 2018, 11:18:41 PM
Post by: thorny on August 19, 2018, 09:35:56 PM
Also wondering whether Onni will now go yelling for Reynir. Though it would help if Lalli had at least told him the last point he recognized on the map.
-- there's an owl calling outside my window right now, I think; though I suspect it's the wrong kind of owl.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 19, 2018, 10:49:58 PM
Hmmm. Wonder why he didn't ask if Onni could help?
Also wondering whether Onni will now go yelling for Reynir. Though it would help if Lalli had at least told him the last point he recognized on the map.
-- there's an owl calling outside my window right now, I think; though I suspect it's the wrong kind of owl.
70s songs - 'there's a hoot-owl howlin' by my window now, for six nights in a row. She's comin' for me I know, and on Sleipnope we're both gonna go.' Or not. In that instance, they're *all* wrong owls.
Post by: keitto-kettu on August 20, 2018, 07:56:46 PM
Post by: beergood on August 21, 2018, 05:01:28 AM
Quote
Plot twist: The Swan of Tuonela is still so shook up from its traffic incident earlier that it can't do its job, meaning Lalli is effectively immortal for a few hours.
Have now spent a few hours imagining Friday's cliffhanger ending with Lalli getting chomped in the jugular by a Notoro, and then Monday's page like:
Panel 1: Lalli and all the Notorii look up at the sky in anticipation
Panel 2: The Swan and Onni standing at the side of the dream lake arguing and passive-aggressively exchanging insurance information, while a traffic cop tries to figure out who to write the ticket to
Panel 3: Lalli grinning, pulling out a puukko and jumping right back into the fray of Notorii, who are powerless against him
Post by: Miriam on August 21, 2018, 06:19:15 AM
Post by: Windfighter on August 21, 2018, 01:43:39 PM
Post by: Anna on August 21, 2018, 01:51:52 PM
Maybe the missing flag is to keep us on our toes, like the Swedish flag when Lalli first entered Emil's dreamspace!Sounds likely.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 22, 2018, 12:05:57 AM
I posted this in the comment thread:
Have now spent a few hours imagining Friday's cliffhanger ending with Lalli getting chomped in the jugular by a Notoro, and then Monday's page like:
Panel 1: Lalli and all the Notorii look up at the sky in anticipation
Panel 2: The Swan and Onni standing at the side of the dream lake arguing and passive-aggressively exchanging insurance information, while a traffic cop tries to figure out who to write the ticket to
Panel 3: Lalli grinning, pulling out a puukko and jumping right back into the fray of Notorii, who are powerless against him
This is hilarious! Now I can upvote it more than once.
I will wait & see on the missing flag, so many possibilities here.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 25, 2018, 10:26:52 PM
Post by: Mebediel on August 26, 2018, 10:22:39 AM
I just noticed in the transcripts of the live stream, confirmation from Minna that the vague red form in the clouds, that Lalli tried to swim away from, was that thing that Onni and Lalli are afraid of - the infamous It! Obviously, we haven't seen the last of this. *fret*
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/d159fcdb0c69a653c18c9bc1f1287f4b/tumblr_pe2ntluEND1r78zweo1_640.png)
I bet you thought you'd seen the last of me
Post by: thorny on August 30, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
Or are they running toward the site of the explosion?
Looks more like the latter to me --
Post by: Miriam on August 31, 2018, 02:13:17 PM
That's nice of course, but I think this is really weird of Hiveworks. Many people who have pledged for the Kickstarter or have added book 2 later don't have it yet. Then why would Hiveworks make book 2 available in the store? Now the ones who have supported printing book 2 have to wait longer for their copy than the ones just ordering it from the store last month.
Why even make an addition to your pledge ("only for backers") available if it would be faster to just buy the book directly from the store? I thought the possibility of making an addition to your pledge was a privilege for backers, but it seems like it would have been faster to buy book 2 in the store rather than making it an add-on.
Post by: Hrollo on August 31, 2018, 08:37:59 PM
Futhermore, it's actually pretty frequent for kickstarter project to have the store version becoming avalaible before all backers have gotten their order. Logistics works in mysterious ways.
(Also, I doubt anyone at hiveworks read this forum, but I could be wrong).
Post by: thorny on September 07, 2018, 08:53:36 AM
Are they running toward Emil?
Or are they running toward the site of the explosion?
Looks more like the latter to me --
aaaand I appear to have been wrong about that.
Not the first time. Which won't stop me from making future guesses, of course.
-- looks like they'll be in full sun come morning! if they get till morning without further disturbance, that is.
Wonder whether there'll be any interesting dreams in the meantime?
Post by: Grade E cat on September 07, 2018, 09:58:24 AM
Post by: Ragnarok on September 07, 2018, 10:29:00 AM
Post by: Noodles on September 07, 2018, 03:59:52 PM
Post by: Hearth on September 07, 2018, 08:22:57 PM
The latest page encourages much shipping. That is all.
I will say that this past chapter is what made me finally give in and admit that I’m a hopeless shipper ;D still not really much of one in general though
Post by: thorny on September 08, 2018, 03:27:35 PM
Mileage, obviously, varies.
Post by: Kaino on September 08, 2018, 04:06:19 PM
And yeah, these last chapters have been wonderful for that reason. And I want to see more of them just talking to each other and hanging out. At the same time I'm happy they didn't understand each other after Lalli got out of Emils head, it would have been way too easy. Them trying hard to learn each others language is more interesting, I think, even if it takes longer.
Post by: Solokov on September 10, 2018, 08:36:19 AM
Post by: JoB on September 10, 2018, 08:43:01 AM
Not sure if magespace, or Emil is just having magic induced hallucenations.... the fact that Lalli wakes up and is frowning at Emil's sleep makes me believe they're still linked in magespace somehow.The dream bubble in the first panel has two minibubble trails leading to it ...
Post by: Solokov on September 10, 2018, 08:57:25 AM
The dream bubble in the first panel has two minibubble trails leading to it ...
Huh, didn't even notice that on my first read this morning.
Post by: Mebediel on September 10, 2018, 12:32:16 PM
Huh, didn't even notice that on my first read this morning.I didn’t notice it at first either...it’s pretty easy to miss. I really want to know how they’re still linked and whether or not this is going to be a regular occurrence, since the bucketspace isn’t exactly either of their regular dreamspaces.
Post by: thorny on September 13, 2018, 09:15:38 PM
-- did they really just leave that hole in the fence like that?
Post by: elekia on September 13, 2018, 10:13:15 PM
I'm curious to see if Minna's going to finish this adventure happily or on a cliff hanger (like something bad happening to the boat). I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, something's got to happen to keep the adventure going.
Post by: wavewright62 on September 13, 2018, 11:32:17 PM
Yip yip yip yaaaaayyy!
-- did they really just leave that hole in the fence like that?
You'd'a thunk Mikkel & Reynir would have fixed up the hole, seeing as how they had not much else to do for the few days they were here, and if they hadn't taken it upon themselves Sigrun would have ordered them to, but...better for Emil & Lalli, I guess.
Post by: Róisín on September 14, 2018, 12:03:22 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on September 14, 2018, 03:52:55 AM
Maybe something they have found is so important as to get them sent out again to find out more?Everyone believes Denmark is flat, but this crew kept encountering cliffhangers, so they want seismic analysis of all those cliffs! ::)
Post by: Grade E cat on September 14, 2018, 05:07:14 AM
Post by: JoB on September 14, 2018, 12:06:52 PM
-- did they really just leave that hole in the fence like that?Sigrun: "Didn't you repair that hole, Mikkel ... ?"
Emil: "You made one, too??"
Mikkel: "You made a second hole, instead of just re-opening the part held together by a brand-new but non-connected piece of wire?!?"
Post by: elekia on September 14, 2018, 03:20:18 PM
Maybe something they have found is so important as to get them sent out again to find out more?
That would make sense. Maybe they won't be satisfied with all the books they gathered.
Post by: JodyS on September 18, 2018, 08:32:09 PM
Maybe something they have found is so important as to get them sent out again to find out more?
I'm thinking it'll have something to do with the imperfect vaccine they found.
Post by: midwestmutt on September 19, 2018, 08:28:35 AM
I'm thinking it'll have something to do with the imperfect vaccine they found.I'm not so sure. Didn't Minna say somewhere that they would be covering new ground instead of retracing their first journey.
Post by: JoB on September 19, 2018, 10:27:14 AM
I'm thinking it'll have something to do with the imperfect vaccine they found.
I'm not so sure. Didn't Minna say somewhere that they would be covering new ground instead of retracing their first journey.Could be both. The Danish attempt at creating a cure or vaccine obviously fell way short of the objectives, but there are three more nations whose research facilities were just as qualified and are now sitting in nearby silent lands, not to mention the somewhat farther nations that flat out vanished. Though it sounds a bit like Charon ex machina for them to get sent
Post by: Suominoita on September 19, 2018, 02:30:22 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on September 19, 2018, 07:11:25 PM
I wonder if Onni decides that this time he goes and Lalli stays? I mean Onni is afraid -- but after losing Tuuri he might be more afraid something happens to Lalli. And the others... well, none of them can speak Finnish and Lalli can't speak anything but -- and Onni speaks Icelandic. Language barrier was originally solved by Tuuri but she's not there anymore. :'(
Indeed. Minna has stated it's the same characters, but the language barrier issue will not be rectified over a span of a few weeks their time. Perhaps the ability to dream-speak between Emil & Lalli will continue, and maybe Reynir & Lalli will also come to some understanding and use this method.
Doesn't help anybody in the field, though.
Post by: Róisín on September 19, 2018, 07:26:08 PM
Post by: Mebediel on September 19, 2018, 09:28:05 PM
Onni could translate for Lalli, perhaps? Also, Lalli has learned a few words of Swedish already. And if that were my little cousin, I would want to be in the same place to look after him.Yeah, my guess is that Onni is going to want to go with Lalli to protect him instead of replacing him. If the new crew outfit designs are any indication, Lalli will get to (have to?) go adventuring too.
Post by: Solokov on September 19, 2018, 10:41:18 PM
If the new crew outfit designs are any indication, Lalli will get to (have to?) go adventuring too.
Hold up.... what? NEW uniform designs?
Post by: wavewright62 on September 20, 2018, 02:25:51 AM
Hold up.... what? NEW uniform designs?Yep, on the stream. (Can't link from here, will edit later if no one else has it.)
Post by: Grade E cat on September 20, 2018, 03:13:29 AM
BUT those new designs have already been used in one piece of artwork that's on the official site's gallery, so here's a glimpse of them:
"Still water" drawing (http://www.sssscomic.com/mainimages/art/still_water.jpg)
Post by: thorny on September 20, 2018, 10:58:33 AM
Post by: Mebediel on September 20, 2018, 12:45:39 PM
Good grief, capes?!*cue series of Minnions all channeling their inner Edna Mode and going, “No capes!”*
In terms of translations, though I guess they have things mostly covered.
Mikkel, Sigrun, and Emil can (mostly) understand each other.
Mikkel can translate for Reynir.
Mikkel can translate for Onni, who can translate for Lalli...going through two layers of translation is going to have comedic results, I’d think.
Post by: Suominoita on September 20, 2018, 02:56:15 PM
Yes. There might be times when Swedish and Danish aren't mutually understandable. They'd need Norwegian in the middle. So it may be that Emil talks to Sigrun who talks to Mikkel who talks to Onni who talks to Lalli... Going trough everyone but Reynir that is. Good thing Emil and Lalli are beginning to learn each others languages. if very slowly. Maybe the others will be learning too (would be quicker than between Emil and Lalli I guess).
In terms of translations, though I guess they have things mostly covered.
Mikkel, Sigrun, and Emil can (mostly) understand each other.
Mikkel can translate for Reynir.
Mikkel can translate for Onni, who can translate for Lalli...going through two layers of translation is going to have comedic results, I’d think.
Also, I'm not sure if Reynir joins the next adventure or goes to Iceland's mage academy.
Post by: Miriam on September 21, 2018, 08:28:02 AM
Post by: Solokov on September 22, 2018, 12:28:45 AM
Good grief, capes?!
NO CA-
*cue series of Minnions all channeling their inner Edna Mode and going, “No capes!”*
D'arvit!
BUT those new designs have already been used in one piece of artwork that's on the official site's gallery, so here's a glimpse of them:
"Still water" drawing (http://www.sssscomic.com/mainimages/art/still_water.jpg)
Yogg Saron?
Post by: midwestmutt on September 22, 2018, 09:06:01 AM
Post by: Anna on September 22, 2018, 04:47:19 PM
Good grief, capes?!Capes and cloaks are simpler to make than coats.
Post by: Róisín on September 22, 2018, 08:19:07 PM
For more formal occasions (and for wearing to reenactment events) I have a couple of plain straight calf-length woollen cloaks of more conventional design, one made from finely woven dark brown wool and the other from a piece of Isles tweed fabric one of my aunts gave me. Both are very warm and comfortable, but I wouldn't wear them in rough bush, because a longer garment is more prone to catch on things.
Post by: Anna on September 22, 2018, 09:22:18 PM
Capes and cloaks are much easier to make than a coat. Also it depends a lot on the cut. I wouldn't wear one with lots of dags and tags and floaty bits that could catch on things. But I have a plain hip-length cape made of a heavy dull-green woollen felt that is one of my favourite winter garments. The collar is extended into two scarf-like ends which wrap around my neck and lower face and which serve to make it easier to breathe in freezing conditions (a bit like the collar on Lalli's coat but the scarf-like bits are about twice as long and not as rigid). It is made from a roughly rectangular piece of wool felt, and does up at the front with a few big buttons, then I can wrap the scarf bits around my throat and face if it is cold enough, or just leave them hanging down. They are not as long as the cape, and quite heavy, so don't get in the way - I can and do wear the garment in the bush in winter, but it is plain and tidy enough to wear in town. A friend gave it to me years ago, and I've worn it for more than twenty years without problems.
For more formal occasions (and for wearing to reenactment events) I have a couple of plain straight calf-length woollen cloaks of more conventional design, one made from finely woven dark brown wool and the other from a piece of Isles tweed fabric one of my aunts gave me. Both are very warm and comfortable, but I wouldn't wear them in rough bush, because a longer garment is more prone to catch on things.
Those sound like lovely capes, can’t say I’d mind having one right about now.
Post by: JoB on September 23, 2018, 06:13:48 AM
*cue series of Minnions all channeling their inner Edna Mode and going, “No capes!”*I'm still amazed they came up with a character whose name is "Edna Mode" working in a business that's called "fashion" in English but "Mode" in German (and, of course, same or close in several other languages).
Yes, that gives me the perk to reply to "no capes!" with "ist aus der Mode!" (out of fashion) etc.. >:D
Post by: thorny on September 23, 2018, 01:06:50 PM
ETA: sometimes I like superhero stuff, too. But it's a pleasure to sometimes read comics that aren't like that.
-- JoB, "mode" can mean "fashion" in English, also; though I think it's currently less common.
Post by: Róisín on September 23, 2018, 11:34:22 PM
And thorny, the thing with capes and cloaks is that they need to be heavy and well fitted, not all loose and floaty. The heavy and well fitted ones are warmer, safer and more comfortable to wear, and don't get caught up on things.
I can just imagine a superhero in one of those floaty decorative ones getting caught up in some machinery and dragged to death.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on September 23, 2018, 11:46:26 PM
I can just imagine a superhero in one of those floaty decorative ones getting caught up in some machinery and dragged to death.
Exactly a thing in Moore and Gibbon's Watchmen. "Dollar Bill" (the only superhero who wears a cape) gets it caught in the revolving door of a bank while trying to stop a robbery and gets shot to death.
Post by: Ragnarok on September 26, 2018, 10:49:04 PM
Now what?
Post by: Mebediel on September 26, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
Well, the comic has ended...Now we wait for the next beginning!
Now what?
Post by: Windfighter on September 27, 2018, 01:16:57 AM
Now we speculate about the next adventure!
Fixed that for you ;)
Post by: JodyS on September 27, 2018, 01:19:10 AM
Post by: thorny on September 27, 2018, 09:50:34 AM
-- they're not going to keep Kitty in that little box for a month, are they?!! She'd be horribly upset, and unable to move around properly. Maybe at least she gets an entire isolation cell? though sharing one with a human would be better. She's not much past being an infant, after all; and she doesn't understand the reason for isolation, or that it's temporary.
-- it suddenly occured to me: do we know that Kitty's a she?
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on September 27, 2018, 10:26:22 AM
Post by: thorny on September 27, 2018, 02:37:00 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on September 28, 2018, 05:14:39 AM
I'm thinking of it pretty much as another chapter break. The length's apparently going to be similar.
-- they're not going to keep Kitty in that little box for a month, are they?!! She'd be horribly upset, and unable to move around properly. Maybe at least she gets an entire isolation cell? though sharing one with a human would be better. She's not much past being an infant, after all; and she doesn't understand the reason for isolation, or that it's temporary.
I feel the same about the break. The "end of the first adventure" has a bit of an undeserved finality to it. It naturally means a lot to Minna, since this was the minimum she was going to do with the comic in case she burned out. She reached her goal so it's an achievement, and congratulations are in order. But for us as readers, this is pretty much another chapter break. I'd feel different if, say, there was a significant time skip involved, but based on the illustrations she made with the new outfits, that's not the case.
And I'm sure a culture that is so centered around cats knows better than to lock a cat in a transport box for a month, so don't worry!
Post by: Windfighter on September 28, 2018, 06:55:50 AM
At... at least that's what I think.
There also isn't really any feeling that "new adventures await (for this crew)", we just know about it because Minna has said so.
(I mean unless you count The Crews' Battle Against the Chef's Food as the next adventure I guess... And I have a feeling we're not gonna see that :P)
But I'm very happy for Minna for managing to reach this milestone anyway, and I'm really excited about the next adventure! Bring on all the new ideas for fanfics!
Post by: Sc0ut on September 28, 2018, 08:28:42 AM
Post by: thorny on September 28, 2018, 09:51:08 AM
... the premise (?) of the first adventure hasn't concluded yet. Like, compared to the Harry Potter-books (because everyone knows about them) the setup is that "Harry goes a year to Hogwartz" and what follows is Preparations for the year, Actual year, and then Returning home. Here the setup was "The crew goes to Denmark to fetch books which then gets sold for large sums of money". While the "large sum of money" was always questionable we still need to actually see them return with the books and attempt to sell them off to Danish scholars or something for this adventure to be concluded.
I suppose it depends on whether you think of the setup as "the crew goes to fetch books so they can sell them, will they make money?" or "the crew goes to the Silent World to see what's going on there, will they get back alive?" Presuming nothing happens to the ship enroute, the answer to the second way of phrasing it now seems pretty clear. The collecting-books-for-money was indeed part of the intention; but it always seemed to me to be secondary.
I wonder, though, whether there's going to be something in the books that they brought back that they haven't even noticed as important, but that's going to spark the second expedition -- not even the records they collected knowing they might have information about the failed "cure" that caused the ghosts, but maybe somebody's diary or record book they picked up in a pile of other books and haven't read yet, but which turns out to have really useful but incomplete information?
Post by: JoB on September 28, 2018, 11:14:02 AM
Post by: Róisín on September 28, 2018, 12:23:42 PM
Post by: IOM on September 28, 2018, 02:07:17 PM
Quote
Tuuri was keeping records...Whether they actually did is another matter.
I'm optimistic that there were at least a few notebooks in the wheelbarrow stack. I don't imagine Tuuri spent all of that time confined in the tank for nothing while everyone else was out
Post by: Windfighter on September 28, 2018, 03:52:52 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on September 28, 2018, 06:51:21 PM
That's a good point, Windy. Things do feel incomplete until we see them reunited with the crew back home, processing what has happened, and deciding if the expedition was a success or not. It doesn't make sense to end the adventure in a place that feels conflict-free but not all "wrapped up", and without a conclusion or thought given to the reason why they set out in the first place. I almost feel like a (short) chapter would have been in order to tie up the minor loose ends even knowing we won't get answers to the bigger questions such as what is "It".
Minna said in the stream that the red vagary seen in the mists while Lalli was swimming, was the infamous 'It', and we would learn more about this in the next adventure. I assume that since Minna was planning further stories, that she was setting up some loose ends to be examined later.
Remember that it took us many chapters to get glimpsed updates of Sleipnope & Pastor Anne's arc, and the summoning of Kokko to repel the horde was not the end of Sleipnope's arc at all.
I also agree that Tuuri's records should have been selected by Mikkel to make the cut of which parcels were loaded onto Barry. The next adventure is purported to be in a different place, so going back for those notes doesn't seem to be the driver for this next arc.
Post by: Sc0ut on September 29, 2018, 03:09:02 AM
Minna said in the stream that the red vagary seen in the mists while Lalli was swimming, was the infamous 'It', and we would learn more about this in the next adventure. I assume that since Minna was planning further stories, that she was setting up some loose ends to be examined later.
Remember that it took us many chapters to get glimpsed updates of Sleipnope & Pastor Anne's arc, and the summoning of Kokko to repel the horde was not the end of Sleipnope's arc at all.
Of course, I expect us to learn more about It in this adventure! The reason I brought it up was to differentiate between the things that make sense to be left for the next adveture (such as It, which is a big mystery and pretty much the closest thing we have to a villain so far) and the things that do not - such as wrapping up the mission, the reaction of the home crew to their return, some Words between Onni and Reynir about some lies that might have occurred around Tuuri and so on.
I know it sounds like I might be pointlessly criticizing Minna's writing, but I just like pulling comics apart and figuring out what works and what doesn't. I also hope I'll eventually make my own long comic and talking about the craft feels like it helps.
Post by: Mebediel on September 29, 2018, 01:38:42 PM
It does make me wonder, though, if Minna would have changed around certain points in her script if she had decided to end the story with this arc. Ex. maybe we have had a longer epilogue (to parallel the longer prologue) that would have given Onni's character better closure, shown the results of the mission, etc.
Post by: wavewright62 on September 29, 2018, 08:45:00 PM
I know it sounds like I might be pointlessly criticizing Minna's writing, but I just like pulling comics apart and figuring out what works and what doesn't. I also hope I'll eventually make my own long comic and talking about the craft feels like it helps.
Absolutely an essential operation, no criticism from me! Devotion is good, but analysis for your own enrichment is life.
Post by: steadfastjewel on September 30, 2018, 01:39:25 PM
Post by: thorny on October 01, 2018, 09:27:57 AM
-- I wonder whether there won't be at least a preliminary debrief while they're still in quarantine, and quite possibly while they're still on the ship? I'd think that they wouldn't want to take even the small risk of losing information by not spreading it as far as possible as soon as they can; and also that they'd be curious. It's true there were radio reports through most of the trip, though, so some of what the crew found out has already been transmitted.
Post by: Kelpie on October 14, 2018, 10:41:54 PM
Post by: Ragnarok on October 14, 2018, 10:44:35 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swordstaff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swordstaff)
Post by: Kelpie on October 14, 2018, 10:48:40 PM
Post by: thorny on October 15, 2018, 11:14:17 AM
-- and why, come to think of it, is he the one with the firearm, when it's been established that he's the one no good at using one?
Maybe they're all running away from Mikkel, because they're afraid he'll shoot them by accident!
Post by: Suominoita on October 16, 2018, 07:18:29 AM
So why is Mikkel standing there so calm and relaxed while everybody else is running away?
-- and why, come to think of it, is he the one with the firearm, when it's been established that he's the one no good at using one?
Maybe they're all running away from Mikkel, because they're afraid he'll shoot them by accident!
I had the same thought... -- though, with the look he's giving Sigrun... he is giving the impression he's going to shoot them on purpose -- but I have the faintest idea why he'd do such a thing. A prank like when he was telling Emil he might get face cancer? Since it is a shotgun he actually *might* do something like that to get them to go to the next place as fast as they can. The look Onni and Lalli share... they know they most likely won't get hurt even if Mikkel actually fires at them.
Post by: midwestmutt on October 16, 2018, 03:45:59 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on October 22, 2018, 02:46:32 AM
Post by: Ragnarok on November 04, 2018, 09:52:21 PM
Post by: Sc0ut on November 05, 2018, 07:22:30 AM
The latest page pleases my inner shipper. That is all.
My inner shipper is terrified. The look on Lalli's face doesn't read "pleasant surprise" to me :'D
Post by: Windfighter on November 05, 2018, 07:28:56 AM
Post by: thorny on November 08, 2018, 09:52:53 PM
I guess we're in the dreamworld, all right!
But I wonder whether that means something, in a mage's dreamworld. Lalli looks kind of taken aback.
Post by: Suominoita on November 08, 2018, 10:49:34 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on November 08, 2018, 11:19:41 PM
Means something... about your world being upside down I suppose. Lalli must be feeling like a fish out of water -- no one speaks his language, he can't go outside etc. Maybe the flying wish are the spirits of REAL fish that the ship's crew has caught, killed and cooked? Don't know about the bird though... it doesn't look like Tuuri...Did anyone else expect the bird to cough up a talisman when Lalli disengaged it from the hook?
Okay, just me.
Post by: Róisín on November 09, 2018, 02:40:47 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on November 09, 2018, 06:54:41 AM
Post by: Mebediel on November 09, 2018, 12:40:57 PM
Lalli must be feeling like a fish out of waterI see what you did there :>
In case nobody else noticed, Tuuri had a couple stealth cameos in the flash-backs. We see the corner of the bed in which she was sleeping in the train from Chapter 3 and the snoring sound coming from the side when Emil remembers sleeping in the tank has to be hers.I hope that, when Minna talked about Tuuri being seen again some time later in the comics, she wasn’t just talking about small cameos like that. Though I do appreciate the cameos.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on November 12, 2018, 08:15:59 PM
Post by: thorny on November 13, 2018, 11:20:31 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on November 13, 2018, 03:20:59 PM
And I'm pretty much in agreement with thorny and others who think it's Bjarni, finally allowed down to see his baby bro.
What gets me is Reynir's complete despondency - isn't shown reading, isn't shown chatting with any of the boat's staff (you'd'a thunk he'd be enjoying the chance to speak Icelandic again?), isn't shown doing anything. I guess the processing of all that's happened to him is getting to him, now that he's 'safe'?
Post by: Róisín on November 13, 2018, 03:46:37 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on November 13, 2018, 03:51:24 PM
Post by: thorny on November 18, 2018, 11:56:44 PM
Post by: Windfighter on November 19, 2018, 10:12:12 AM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on November 22, 2018, 10:09:49 PM
moving to the 3rd level of increasingly-unlikely hypotheticals, if somehow somebody managed to get back to civilization, they would have brought a ghost/troll horde back with them -- do people in Y90 even know how to deal with ghosts? difficult to predict what would have happened in that scenario
reynir is the MVP of adventure #1 IMO, i kinda hope somebody gives him credit for that in these upcoming pages. i kinda doubt it though lol
Post by: Mebediel on November 23, 2018, 01:10:43 PM
moving to the 3rd level of increasingly-unlikely hypotheticals, if somehow somebody managed to get back to civilization, they would have brought a ghost/troll horde back with them -- do people in Y90 even know how to deal with ghosts? difficult to predict what would have happened in that scenarioI'm under the impression that they might to some extent, but probably not well enough to have known what to do in that specific scenario. Onni is a pretty experienced mage, for example, and he didn't really know how to get rid of them. Maybe the Icelandic mages would have had some other ideas, but I'm not so sure. 90 years isn't exactly a long period of time; there's still a lot they have to discover/rediscover, and I imagine that dealing with those ghosts is just one out of many of the magical things mages still have to figure out.
Post by: vegetablemonster on November 25, 2018, 02:38:10 PM
Post by: Hrollo on November 29, 2018, 08:25:46 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on December 06, 2018, 02:24:50 AM
EDIT on the 7th:
Seeing that Kitty was left in a cat hotel while Sigrun and Mikkel are having their lunch made me think of how Michael Madsen refused to do exactly that because he thought the places were "practically kitty-jails". I never really paid attention to the differences in how cats are treated in the two eras before this.
Post by: thorny on December 07, 2018, 11:32:47 AM
-- this may be the first time she's seen another cat since she was too young to remember, and she's probably got no idea how to behave around other cats.
Even if she saw the ship's cats while she was being carried through to isolation, she wouldn't have had a chance to interact with them.
Post by: Grade E cat on December 07, 2018, 12:45:26 PM
Post by: thorny on December 07, 2018, 01:21:20 PM
Cats who have been separated from all other cats as small kittens often have trouble getting along with other cats if they're introduced as adults or near-adults. Some of this is probably that socialization in cats is partly learned, and a cat who's only been socialized to humans may not be a fluent speaker of cat.
Post by: wavewright62 on December 07, 2018, 05:07:59 PM
We didn't see much of the abandoned Danish base where they ended the journey (a tremendous pity that), but I headcanon a population of cats in that vicinty too.
Post by: thorny on December 07, 2018, 05:12:09 PM
However, you're right that there are certainly things going on that we don't see. So I might be wrong about this one.
Post by: Grade E cat on December 10, 2018, 07:13:57 AM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on December 10, 2018, 08:07:12 AM
1) Year 90 is 2103/2104 (90 years after the comic started in 2013)
2) The expedition was planned to take advantage of the coldest month (January)
3) The moon seen on page 504 is waxing gibbous.
Then consultation of moon phases shows that the expedition set out from the Oresund base on new years day 2104!
(This is a lot of assumptions, but I think it's neat! ;D )
Post by: JoB on December 10, 2018, 12:37:01 PM
If we assume that...(Sorry, but as far North as Denmark, the Moon's terminator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_(solar)#Lunar_terminator) travels exclusively right to left, resulting in ... : )
3) The moon seen on page 504 is waxing gibbous.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Moon_phases_en.jpg)
Post by: wavewright62 on December 10, 2018, 04:07:47 PM
The more I think of it, the more I'm tempted to peg "Aunt Helga" as a member of Ragnar's generation rather than of Árni (Ragnarsson)'s, as I've seen assumed by some people in the comments. She's pretty much stated to be dead, presumably of old age, in the present day and she's shown to have typical "old lady" complaints in the childhood flashback.
(I hope Kiraly doesn't mind if I use her most best Ragnar. Look at this guy...) (https://66.media.tumblr.com/ef89e9cedd7abf273a6bfb38dce3e1f2/tumblr_pj8wf6VS4a1qjas7jo2_r1_1280.png)
<Darth Vader voice> So... you have a...sister...
Post by: Purple Wyrm on December 10, 2018, 06:10:32 PM
(Sorry, but as far North as Denmark, the Moon's terminator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_(solar)#Lunar_terminator) travels exclusively right to left, resulting in ... : )
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Moon_phases_en.jpg)
Well dagnabit! ;D
Post by: Grade E cat on December 11, 2018, 01:42:30 AM
(I hope Kiraly doesn't mind if I use her most best Ragnar. Look at this guy...) (https://66.media.tumblr.com/ef89e9cedd7abf273a6bfb38dce3e1f2/tumblr_pj8wf6VS4a1qjas7jo2_r1_1280.png)
<Darth Vader voice> So... you have a...sister...
The siblings in that movie were fraternal twins. I'd be on board for that concerning Ragnar and Helga as well. Wait, I'm already headcanoning (is that a word? if not, it should be) the three Västerström brats as triplets, that's starting to make a lot of multiple births in the version of SSSS living in my head...
Post by: wavewright62 on December 11, 2018, 03:13:25 AM
Post by: thorny on December 13, 2018, 12:34:42 PM
Surprise plot twist! Reynir's family are actually all old-style trolls!
Post by: Windfighter on December 13, 2018, 01:14:16 PM
I don't think the changelings are actually triplets - Sune (the Emil lookalike) is definitely younger than the other two. I'm not sure whether Anna or Håkan is older. (Merely being drawn on the same branch on page 629 is not enough to indicate twins, as Mikkel and Michael are not.)
I... I actually thought Sune was the oldest. Probably because I've only read one of the Sune-books and I remembered that Håkan was the younger brother and he had a younger sister and he had a sister named Anna and I assumed Anna was the younger sister because of that. Turned out Anna was the oldest of the siblings haha.
Of course obviously Minna doesn't have to have Torbjörn and Siv name their kids in the same order as the books the names are from but I still assumed that. I'm slightly ashamed now.
Post by: Grade E cat on December 13, 2018, 01:16:30 PM
I'm sure it isn't really; but does anyone else think that last panel looks like Reynir's waving to indicate 'here's my home, under this bridge'?
Surprise plot twist! Reynir's family are actually all old-style trolls!
So he's a bit of fixer upper
but this we're certain of
You can fix this fixer upper up
with a little bit of love.
On a slightly more serious note, between the town being built after the Rash outbreak and Fullmetal Alchemist being one of my old fiction flings, my brain went in a "the town is shaped like a rune and Reynir never really paid attention to the fact due to living there all his life" direction in terms of possible reveals for Monday.
Post by: wavewright62 on December 13, 2018, 02:23:31 PM
I... I actually thought Sune was the oldest. Probably because I've only read one of the Sune-books and I remembered that Håkan was the younger brother and he had a younger sister and he had a sister named Anna and I assumed Anna was the younger sister because of that. Turned out Anna was the oldest of the siblings haha.
Of course obviously Minna doesn't have to have Torbjörn and Siv name their kids in the same order as the books the names are from but I still assumed that. I'm slightly ashamed now.
"The books"? They're named after book characters? I seemed to have missed that, which books are those? (Boo for my ignorance, but YAY for Swedish culture knowledge upgrade?)
On a slightly more serious note, between the town being built after the Rash outbreak and Fullmetal Alchemist being one of my old fiction flings, my brain went in a "the town is shaped like a rune and Reynir never really paid attention to the fact due to living there all his life" direction in terms of possible reveals for Monday.
Also ignorant about FMA, but I really like the idea of the town being built as a living rune. That would be mind-blowing indeed.
Post by: Grade E cat on December 13, 2018, 02:50:10 PM
"The books"? They're named after book characters? I seemed to have missed that, which books are those? (Boo for my ignorance, but YAY for Swedish culture knowledge upgrade?)
Also ignorant about FMA, but I really like the idea of the town being built as a living rune. That would be mind-blowing indeed.
I'm kind of curious about those books also, since I didn't know they existed until one of the people adding stuff to the TVTropes page besides myself mentioned them.
As for FMA, all you need to is know is that the magic system in that work has a loose equivalent to runes, and one of the twists in the story involves a massive-scale one.
Post by: Windfighter on December 13, 2018, 03:00:11 PM
"The books"? They're named after book characters? I seemed to have missed that, which books are those? (Boo for my ignorance, but YAY for Swedish culture knowledge upgrade?)
Have some Swedish culture knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sune_(book_series))! I never liked those books much but my brother adored the Sune-series so I may have been biased :P
Post by: thorny on January 07, 2019, 08:56:42 PM
-- oh. He's a cat. He's claiming the space somebody else was about to use; and the space in the nice sunny window, at that. But still, it's kind of unlike this particular cat.
Post by: Vulpes on January 08, 2019, 06:37:48 PM
Lalli. Wait a minute. What are you doing on top of a bed?
-- oh. He's a cat. He's claiming the space somebody else was about to use; and the space in the nice sunny window, at that. But still, it's kind of unlike this particular cat.
Someone over in the disqus comments made the excellent point that for the first time in his life, there are no voices in his head. It occurs to me that his body language is entirely changed as a result. To keep with the cat analogy, up to now he's been like a sick or injured cat - they're all-over tense, like their skin fits closer. A healthy, happy cat is loose and limber... and will go flomp!
Post by: thorny on January 08, 2019, 10:26:51 PM
Someone over in the disqus comments made the excellent point that for the first time in his life, there are no voices in his head.
Wow. I hadn't thought of that. And that is very much a point. Such unhappy voices, too.
Wonder whether he's going to refuse to go back home?
Post by: Vulpes on January 09, 2019, 11:42:26 AM
Wonder whether he's going to refuse to go back home?
I've been wondering the same, although from the art that Minna's posted it appears he doesn't. Or gets hauled back against his will...
Post by: Grade E cat on January 22, 2019, 02:42:44 AM
-- A souvenir I saw in Reykjavík a couple summers ago
Emil: May I just point out that with the comic's pace, that's like ten pages?
PS: I did see Thursday's page on the stream, I'm just writing Emil as being his overdramatic self.
Post by: Róisín on January 22, 2019, 03:16:34 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 22, 2019, 02:20:34 PM
GradeECat: anent towns shaped like, if not a rune, a magical pattern of another kind: check out an ærial photograph of Adelaide. Our Founder, Colonel William Light, was a pretty serious Mason as well as a soldier. While some of his innovations, such as the parklands that surround the city being a cannonshot wide, were purely military, others were not. Consider the pattern formed by the squares and fountains. He also incorporated the native sacred sites into his pattern, centred around what became the fountain in Victoria Square, and including the old sites of springs that became the fountain in Light Square, the fountain near Tandanya, the lake in the East Parklands, and the gardens at Montefiore Hill. Fascinating to see such an early attempt at combining traditions.Here's a map of Adelaide for reference (I hope it helps illustrate):
(https://i.imgur.com/rIyMivY.png)
Post by: Grade E cat on January 22, 2019, 02:48:50 PM
Post by: Róisín on January 22, 2019, 07:49:54 PM
Post by: Vulpes on January 23, 2019, 01:41:40 PM
"Welcome to Iceland. If you don't like the weather, just wait five minutes."
-- A souvenir I saw in Reykjavík a couple summers ago
Commonly used in Atlantic Canada, as well. A variant I like: If you don't like the weather outside the front door, go look out the back.
I think cats subscribe to that notion - back when my cats went outdoors (they have a 'catio' now, too many neighbours snare rabbits plus I like birds in the yard) they would peep out the cat door, find it raining, and then come yell at me to let them out a people door... and then seem annoyed that was raining there too!
Post by: Róisín on January 23, 2019, 07:21:14 PM
Seen the same thing in the Scottish Highlands, sitting on a peak in brilliant sun and looking down at the storm in the valley below.
Post by: thorny on January 24, 2019, 10:23:59 PM
Post by: peeweevireo on January 24, 2019, 11:55:14 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 25, 2019, 02:33:29 AM
Post by: Vulpes on January 25, 2019, 12:55:09 PM
Strangely enough, while Onni's words were kind of sad, what opened the waterworks for me was seeing Sigriður dote on Lalli and Emil, because one of my semi-subconscious headcanons is that neither of them got cared for like this by someone who wasn't simply earning their salary in quite a while.
Interesting point, particularly likely in Emil's case from what we've seen of his past... and yet he still has his mouth open, probably complaining! "We dragged ourselves all the way up there, harrassed by those wretched animals the whole way, and then it started pouring, is it too much to hope for a nice view..." ad nauseam.
Post by: thorny on February 07, 2019, 12:53:05 AM
-- that's almost exactly the look I got from a young cat as the vet carried her into the back room to be spayed. I had a lot of trouble not running after them and taking her right back --
Post by: peeweevireo on February 11, 2019, 05:12:50 PM
Post by: thorny on February 11, 2019, 09:13:05 PM
-- Kitty seems to have been a lot happier with her schooling than Reynir is with his.
Post by: wavewright62 on February 11, 2019, 10:43:33 PM
Summer is well along now, mid-July in-comic.
Post by: midwestmutt on February 12, 2019, 09:36:55 AM
Post by: peeweevireo on February 12, 2019, 12:29:35 PM
(And it wasn't after a particularly large timeskip. I'm not sure when lambing season is, but they probably got home in time.)
Post by: thorny on February 12, 2019, 01:13:25 PM
It's also possible they came home to see Reynir, and to celebrate his return. They must have all been worried about him, after all.
Post by: Krillian on February 13, 2019, 05:35:49 PM
Lambing season would be early spring.It's not everyday your younger sibling comes back from the silent world anyways.
It's also possible they came home to see Reynir, and to celebrate his return. They must have all been worried about him, after all.
Post by: JoB on February 14, 2019, 07:33:15 PM
- times out in our company LAN (through the primary Internet uplink),
- gets an ICMP NETWORK UNREACHABLE from 92.79.244.193 on the secondary uplink,
- connects when run on our remote sites.
Post by: thorny on February 14, 2019, 09:49:41 PM
and it looks like Mikkel's about to spill the beans.
And whoops here comes the weekend --
Post by: wavewright62 on February 14, 2019, 10:14:46 PM
Hmmm. Somebody else could keep Reynir's mom company . . .
and it looks like Mikkel's about to spill the beans.
And whoops here comes the weekend --
Quite aside from knowing that Keuruu is separate from Saimaa, he doesn't know that the distinction in the destination would be pertinent. (He'd gloat a lot more of he did know.)
Post by: Mebediel on February 14, 2019, 11:24:54 PM
Quite aside from knowing that Keuruu is separate from Saimaa, he doesn't know that the distinction in the destination would be pertinent. (He'd gloat a lot more of he did know.)He might even have tried to stop Onni, honestly, if he’d known what the importance of Saimaa is. Maybe.
Hmmmmm ... right now, "telnet www.sssscomic.com 80"It works fine for me...I guess the issue must have gotten fixed?Any chance that HiveWorks is having a bit of trouble with its backbone routing ... ?
- times out in our company LAN (through the primary Internet uplink),
- gets an ICMP NETWORK UNREACHABLE from 92.79.244.193 on the secondary uplink,
- connects when run on our remote sites.
Post by: JoB on February 16, 2019, 10:26:46 AM
It works fine for me...I guess the issue must have gotten fixed?Yeah, went away after some 10-20 minutes. Wasn't a problem with a single provider here, obviously, but possibly a disturbance only in the force of Europe's BGP announcements / routing ...
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on February 17, 2019, 05:25:25 PM
Yeah, went away after some 10-20 minutes. Wasn't a problem with a single provider here, obviously, but possibly a disturbance only in the force of Europe's BGP announcements / routing ...
Could have been your company too.... where I work we have to go through our mothership's proxy to access the Internet, every so often that goes down for a while. If it was just ssss not working I guess that's a different story :V
Post by: wavewright62 on February 17, 2019, 09:10:45 PM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on February 17, 2019, 09:50:28 PM
Hey, yung, long time no see! Good to see you.
hey there comrade, yeah i mostly lurk but now and then i pop my head in :) how's tricks
on topic: looks like lalli's going to set up a meet
Post by: Grade E cat on February 18, 2019, 02:04:28 AM
For now, my brain's best shot at making sense of it is some comments that were suggesting the conversation could actually be a flash-back. Hoping the next page will make things a little clearer.
Post by: JoB on February 18, 2019, 02:14:30 AM
Hey, am I the only one who's a little confused about the timeline of Taru and Mikkel's conversation? Because to me, it looks like it started with Reynir reading downstairs, only to have him sleeping in his room with the book on his face by the time Lalli goes to bug him, without being shown going upstairs.For all we know, there's a time skip involved - with Lalli having to ponder his next actions, or waiting for the next coach to Reykjavík, or insisting on not running off on an empty stomach, or whatever. Would've been clearer if it suddenly were night outside, of course, but if his plans involve taking a coach, chances are that they only go during the day ...
(Or maybe he had to wait until Kristjan stopped standing next to Ella. ;) )
Post by: thorny on February 18, 2019, 09:44:27 AM
Anyway: looks like what's going to happen is that they're all going to go after Onni. Or some of them are, and the rest of them will wind up going after those who first did. And the question of how they manage to get Onni to go out with the crew isn't really a question: he doesn't join them, they're going to go join him.
At any rate, that's my guess.
Post by: Grade E cat on February 18, 2019, 10:07:07 AM
I think what I'm confused about is who's where when. Wasn't Lalli supposed to have gone off with Emil before Reynir got back from his classes? Or are they all still based at the farm, Emil and Lalli still staying there?
I'd say the second one. The only people who were definitely seen leaving were Torbjörn and Siv, Trond and all the older siblings of Reynir's who didn't quit their job to marry their sweetheart. Sigrun, Mikkel, Emil and Lalli were seen shopping for clothes in a place that may be Reykjavik, but there is no indication that they jumped on a boat after that. Considering the implied travel times in the setting, it would make sense for Sigrun and Mikkel to wait out Kitty's training rather than go to Norway, then travel back to Iceland to pick her up once the training is done. And if the clothes shopping scene wasn't an indication that the characters shown in it were about to leave Iceland, it would make sense for Emil and Lalli to still be around as well.
Otherwise, yes, it does look more and more like an "everyone decides to join Onni" scenario.
Post by: thorny on February 18, 2019, 11:10:58 AM
I also realized on that re-reading that not only Mikkel, but Reynir also knows that Onni said he was going to Saimaa. I thought maybe Lalli was going to try to ask Reynir to go into Onni's dreamspace (Lalli I think needs to be invited, but Reynir seems to be able to invade it) to find out where Onni went; but Reynir can confirm the Saimaa destination without having to do that.
Post by: Suominoita on February 18, 2019, 01:00:20 PM
Lalli: Onni?
Reynir: Saimaa
Not too weird, I guess. Lalli had the letter, he heard Taru say one thing and Mikkel something else -- concluding with "I don't know" when he asks the ONLY person he can ask as Taru is only one speaking Finnish. But if you're looking for a person and ask someone who knows that person by name... do you actually need to say anything but the name?
Post by: wavewright62 on February 18, 2019, 03:13:41 PM
It goes like this:
Lalli: Onni?
Reynir: Saimaa
Not too weird, I guess. Lalli had the letter, he heard Taru say one thing and Mikkel something else -- concluding with "I don't know" when he asks the ONLY person he can ask as Taru is only one speaking Finnish. But if you're looking for a person and ask someone who knows that person by name... do you actually need to say anything but the name?
Lalli: Onni?
Reynir: *heavy sigh* where do I start? First I saw, he was this awesome owl, swooping in to save me...
Lalli: >:( nvm
Post by: thorny on February 18, 2019, 04:45:58 PM
I can see the next step being Lalli trying to get Emil into their joint dreamspace (where the language problem doesn't apply), so Lalli can ask Emil (who probably can't answer the question himself) to ask Reynir to find out where Onni went --
But maybe it won't get that complicated, and Lalli will manage to get across to Reynir what the question is.
Post by: Róisín on February 18, 2019, 05:07:23 PM
Post by: thorny on February 18, 2019, 09:38:14 PM
I can see the next step being Lalli trying to get Emil into their joint dreamspace (where the language problem doesn't apply), so Lalli can ask Emil (who probably can't answer the question himself) to ask Reynir to find out where Onni went --
Duh (directed at myself). It doesn't need to be that complicated -- Lalli only needed to get into dreamspace directly with Reynir, of course.
Post by: loooongtea on February 20, 2019, 09:21:27 PM
Post by: peeweevireo on February 20, 2019, 10:15:52 PM
Post by: loooongtea on February 20, 2019, 10:39:40 PM
Soooo regarding Reynir's magic/dream-related abilities, is he able to walk across those giant seas because of that? I didn't notice until today because of how Lalli was standing on the precipice of some underwater cliff or something, so it looked to me that it wasn't anything that any dream-faring person could do. Also, it's cute that the dog can do what Reynir can. What a sweet little dog...
I think minna said that Icelandic mages can walk on water while the Finnish mages have to 'command' the sea floor to come to them. I was just browsing the google doc of saved info and I think she said something along those lines IIRC.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on February 21, 2019, 05:47:11 AM
Soooo regarding Reynir's magic/dream-related abilities, is he able to walk across those giant seas because of that? I didn't notice until today because of how Lalli was standing on the precipice of some underwater cliff or something, so it looked to me that it wasn't anything that any dream-faring person could do.
If you look back to when Reynir and Onni were adventuring around, Onni could only get across the water by jumping on Reynir's footprints like stepping stones :)
Post by: JoB on February 21, 2019, 01:58:34 PM
If you look back to when Reynir and Onni were adventuring around, Onni could only get across the water by jumping on Reynir's footprints like stepping stones :)That was Lalli (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=327). When he took Onni over to A's church, Reynir started shoving (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=563) him along, and then they somehow changed places while already on open water and Onni seemed to not step exactly on Reynirs footprints ...
Post by: peeweevireo on February 21, 2019, 06:59:10 PM
That was Lalli (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=327). When he took Onni over to A's church, Reynir started shoving (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=563) him along, and then they somehow changed places while already on open water and Onni seemed to not step exactly on Reynirs footprints ...Ummm, then, maybe the Finnish mages need to rely on their abilities to stay afloat. At least, I think Onni is the more experienced mage in the story. Either that, or he was depending on Reynir's touch to not plunge into the... abyss-sea thing...?
Post by: Purple Wyrm on February 21, 2019, 08:17:53 PM
That was Lalli (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=327). When he took Onni over to A's church, Reynir started shoving (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=563) him along, and then they somehow changed places while already on open water and Onni seemed to not step exactly on Reynirs footprints ...
Opps! My mistake! (Knew I should have looked it up :)))
Post by: thorny on February 21, 2019, 09:48:28 PM
And with our two most poorly matched main characters actually working together!
Post by: snowilsadmiral on February 26, 2019, 05:11:20 AM
Is it possible that what Lalli does on this page (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=846 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=846)) is somehow related to what he does on this one (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=383 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=383))? I know there was some discussion on page 383 about what Lalli may be doing, and I think all of them are possible answers, but the movements seemed to be similar. Maybe that's why Tuuri was so upset about his actions, because he knew it was hurting him?
It's been bothering me for ages, and I hadn't seen anyone else mention the possibility.
Post by: Mebediel on February 26, 2019, 10:20:45 PM
Definitely unrelated to this particular page (I couldn't find a general discussion thread, so sorry to disrupt the "latest update" trend), but there's something I've been wondering about for a while.Wow, I never noticed that before. That's a really good catch. I wouldn't be surprised if they're at least somewhat related...to steal language from some of the page 383 comments, "self-protection mode" is on in both, even though one looks more "epic" than the other.
Is it possible that what Lalli does on this page (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=846 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=846)) is somehow related to what he does on this one (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=383 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=383))? I know there was some discussion on page 383 about what Lalli may be doing, and I think all of them are possible answers, but the movements seemed to be similar. Maybe that's why Tuuri was so upset about his actions, because he knew it was hurting him?
It's been bothering me for ages, and I hadn't seen anyone else mention the possibility.
Post by: Vulpes on March 02, 2019, 07:44:46 PM
It strikes me that although superficially similar, they are fundamentally different because one takes place in the waking world, and the other in the dream world. Also, despite both being a form of self-defence, I don't think what he does on p383 is upsetting Tuuri because she think he's going to do himself harm, just that he's shutting down/shutting out the world.
I took Lalli's action on p864 as an act of desperation, the only way he could think of at short notice to stop Emil. Consider here, http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=927 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=927), when he's developed a real friendship with Emil and really doesn't want to hurt him (perhaps also has learned a bit about seeing things from another's point of view, rather literally), and has had a little time to think up alternatives.
Clapping his hands over his ears is to shut out the world, and Tuuri is upset because she's seen him do it before, knows it means he's overwhelmed, that he'll be no use in that state, and that it's her fault for yelling at him. Digging his luonto lynx claws into his scalp is to hurt Emil and break the hold the spirit voices have on him. I suppose attacking his/Emil's head makes it maximally disruptive to the mind control, otherwise he could just easily have clawed his arms, say.
Neat parallel, but my interpretation is that they're not closely related.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on March 04, 2019, 04:11:36 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on March 05, 2019, 06:45:36 AM
Here's my own contribution to the "things to worry about until they get explained" list.
Look at Panel 3 of page 321 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=321) and Panels 1-3 of page 324 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=324).
Noticed how Reynir actually sunk into the water in those two situations? And how he didn't in that place full of reeds, whose water showed other signs of being more like the water outside of personal dream places?
As if that place wasn't creepy enough.
Post by: thorny on March 11, 2019, 10:25:50 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on March 11, 2019, 03:12:06 PM
Post by: thorny on March 26, 2019, 09:55:23 AM
The problem is that the people he's dealing with aren't as good at translating their answers. -- or rather, none of them seem to be trying to translate their answers at all, except in the sense of pointing.
Post by: Antillanka on March 26, 2019, 09:53:06 PM
Lalli's actually done quite a good job of getting his question across.
The problem is that the people he's dealing with aren't as good at translating their answers. -- or rather, none of them seem to be trying to translate their answers at all, except in the sense of pointing.
Right? I mean, for being a black&white doodle of a boat and a flag (in a forest), it's doing a wonderful job! Hehe, reminds me a course I had at university, where you had to express your ideas mainly by doodles. In fact, the least you used words, the better the mark you got. Lalli would excel, drawing poorly and all.
Post by: Demopans on March 27, 2019, 08:18:28 AM
Lalli's actually done quite a good job of getting his question across.Icelandic is the lingua franca of the Y90 world, so everyone in Iceland would assume that Lalli would understand something they said, even if Lalli didn’t.
The problem is that the people he's dealing with aren't as good at translating their answers. -- or rather, none of them seem to be trying to translate their answers at all, except in the sense of pointing.
Post by: JoB on March 27, 2019, 10:51:13 AM
Icelandic is the lingua franca of the Y90 world, so everyone in Iceland would assume that Lalli would understand something they said, even if Lalli didn’t.That's a rather braindead assumption, seeing that Lalli should be expected to at least try to speak up if he had any knowledge of Icelandic at all. (Though I admit that him throwing a "hello" in Finnish, just to demonstrate he isn't mute, would have been worthwhile.)
Now if only dude #1 had asked for the exact city Lalli wants to go to and then grabbed a pen and written a bunch of keywords on the back of Lalli's drawing, say, (the Icelandic translation of):
Quote
1. Reykjavík → Bornholmthen dude #2 already would have known that "we're sending junk to Bornholm" doesn't mean that Lalli needs to go elsewhere ...
by Krabben
2. Bornholm → Saimaa
???
(After all, Finnish is a way different language, but it uses the same script and, presumably, identifies out-of-Finland places&companies by their native names ...)
Extra points for showing a) the entire trip and b) the way to Krabben's booth on maps, if available ... Lalli is a scout, after all.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 29, 2019, 11:42:28 PM
:sigrun: The time the whale beast attacks their ship;
:reynir: The fact that said whale-beast will drag them to Svalbard;
:mikkel: The side trip to rescue the Pre-Rash seed collection while they repair the boat;
:emil: The giant sjødraug masquerading as a sand bar that shunts their next boat ashore at Helsingborg, and their escape from there;
:lalli: Lalli finally having ENOUGH of boat travel and proceeding overland from Oresund base;
:squirrelcookie: He stumbles upon the ruins of Afrikapark in Malmö, which by some miracle has a population of immune animals including elephants and (naturally immune) lions adapted to the conditions;
:onni: and he also meets up with Onni, who nows lives among the elephants;
and...Yeah nah.
***I predicted these, so they will never ever eventuate, never fear.
Post by: Róisín on March 30, 2019, 12:18:27 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on March 30, 2019, 03:06:14 AM
:lalli: By the way, how did Reynir manage to come here without his parents noticing?
:reynir: Well...
* Cut to Guðrún and her beau discussing wedding plans with the parents *
Post by: wavewright62 on March 30, 2019, 03:23:04 AM
My own crack prediction for Monday's page:
:lalli: By the way, how did Reynir manage to come here without his parents noticing?
:reynir: Well...
* Cut to Guðrún and her beau discussing wedding plans with the parents "
I like it!
Post by: thorny on April 01, 2019, 11:31:23 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on April 11, 2019, 06:45:50 AM
Post by: Róisín on April 11, 2019, 06:58:08 AM
Post by: Oripoke on April 11, 2019, 11:23:15 AM
Post by: Suominoita on April 11, 2019, 02:16:50 PM
Another thing: The way Mikkel is asking, a very vague description in Icelandic, with a time. Did you see a brown-haired man a month ago? A week ago? A day ago? (Any hair color will do.) I likely saw some men that day but don't remember if any had brown hair. And that's more of a deduction than a memory. Because hair-color is irrelevant unless it's dyed to blue or purple... or you happen to work with hair-dye. (None in the Y90 world does)
Lalli has a picture. Whatever that log-worker remembers of Onni it was in the picture. And it wasn't hair-color. hair-style maybe.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 12, 2019, 05:58:43 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on April 23, 2019, 02:40:34 AM
Post by: JoB on April 23, 2019, 12:47:48 PM
As in "Hello... Any non-trollified humans here? No? Okay... Come on guys, let's reclaim that important asset and expand our borders to include it.".In Y0, the locks were operated remotely, while in Y91, as the info pages say, they need to be guarded by on-site troops. The Finns obviously took possession of the canal in a very hands-on way, at least.
Any Finnish mage posted there, however, should be very much aware that the neighborhood is spirit-screaming in Russian, rather than Finnish.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 23, 2019, 05:27:18 PM
In Y0, the locks were operated remotely, while in Y91, as the info pages say, they need to be guarded by on-site troops. The Finns obviously took possession of the canal in a very hands-on way, at least.
Any Finnish mage posted there, however, should be very much aware that the neighborhood is spirit-screaming in Russian, rather than Finnish.
All snickering at "spirit-screaming in Russian" aside, I've always wondered about the language.
Hearty Jane On the Train spoke untranslated Swedish to Emil, the radio static was fragments of Danish and translated English.
The notoros and luring house-troll spoke directly to Emil in what we presume was Danish but clearly enough for Emil to understand and speak with them, although Lalli seemed to think that the presence of Lalli's consciousness in Emil's mind was sufficient for translation.
The mages understand the troll- and ghost-speak directly, regardless of language, and not just while they are in the spirit realm. Sleipnope (a composite of Danish grosslings) taunts Lalli (who doesn't understand Danish) during the battle, "How are you less weak?" Lalli didn't answer, but we presumed he understood the taunt, and then later he confirms the ability to Emil as per the above.
Tuuri experiences the voices in translated format as well, when she manifests the Rash.
Reynir is not shown communicating with any ghost ("uh, hi?" doesn't count), and communicating with Pastor Anne only in the spirit world, where the language is
tl;dr So Lalli and any crew with mage ability will just be hearing, and ignoring, the usual blather. What, if anything, will Reynir hear?
Post by: Grade E cat on April 24, 2019, 02:47:42 AM
*Looks at the crossed-out part again and starts liking that explanation better than the serious one*
*Now headcanons the notoros as sounding like drunk Danes (https://satwcomic.com/language-lesson)*
Post by: Oripoke on April 24, 2019, 09:44:32 AM
Post by: Keeper on April 24, 2019, 11:23:40 AM
All snickering at "spirit-screaming in Russian" aside, I've always wondered about the language.
Hearty Jane On the Train spoke untranslated Swedish to Emil, the radio static was fragments of Danish and translated English.
The notoros and luring house-troll spoke directly to Emil in what we presume was Danish but clearly enough for Emil to understand and speak with them, although Lalli seemed to think that the presence of Lalli's consciousness in Emil's mind was sufficient for translation.
The mages understand the troll- and ghost-speak directly, regardless of language, and not just while they are in the spirit realm. Sleipnope (a composite of Danish grosslings) taunts Lalli (who doesn't understand Danish) during the battle, "How are you less weak?" Lalli didn't answer, but we presumed he understood the taunt, and then later he confirms the ability to Emil as per the above.
Tuuri experiences the voices in translated format as well, when she manifests the Rash.
Reynir is not shown communicating with any ghost ("uh, hi?" doesn't count), and communicating with Pastor Anne only in the spirit world, where the language isWestronuniversally understood. Neither he nor Onni understand Danish.
tl;dr So Lalli and any crew with mage ability will just be hearing, and ignoring, the usual blather. What, if anything, will Reynir hear?
Well, Reynir did hear the threat that Sleipnope made to him about following the tank back home, hence his thinking that he can't go home unless the ghosts are taken care of. So I guess the mind-speak that the ghosts do is similar to speaking in the dreamworld, where it's all mutually understandable? And when the trolls speak out loud, it's in their native language. Dunno what the radio counts as.
Post by: thorny on May 17, 2019, 12:06:21 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on May 17, 2019, 06:00:38 AM
-- why is Lalli scratching?Weird, isn't it? Pulling his collar like that, it looks like nervousness, especially since he seems to be looking at a distinctly cross Emil. Many possibilities occur me to explain why he would be nervous right now.
Or maybe there is an actual reason why he seems to be switching shirts throughout this scene - mebbe it's too hot to wear a wool shirt while running up & down the stairs! XD
Post by: thorny on May 17, 2019, 09:27:43 AM
I mean, he's immune, right? and immune means immune, people don't lose immunity, and the rash doesn't . . . mutate . . . does it?
It's just that Minna seems to be making a big point of that scratching. It's not just that he's shown doing that; and it's not even that the text says 'scratch' once. It says it three times, and in fairly large print.
And she hasn't shown anyone else scratching -- unless they were infected. I would suspect that scratching in public, especially in an area that doesn't go in for quarantine, would be a lot less socially acceptable in the SSSS world than it is in ours.
Post by: JoB on May 17, 2019, 09:59:06 AM
I would suspect that scratching in public, especially in an area that doesn't go in for quarantine, would be a lot less socially acceptable in the SSSS world than it is in ours.In the next page: One team embarking on their mission, sans supplies, at gunpoint. :P
Post by: Grade E cat on May 17, 2019, 02:05:05 PM
Post by: thorny on May 17, 2019, 06:09:36 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on May 17, 2019, 07:37:27 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on May 17, 2019, 11:10:55 PM
Post by: Antillanka on May 19, 2019, 11:43:37 PM
Post by: thorny on May 19, 2019, 11:48:38 PM
Considering how he's eying the clothing store and the fact that he isn't wearing his outfit from the artwork yet, I suspect that Lalli is suddenly realizing that the clothes he's currently wearing are too itchy for his liking.
You called it!
(whew)
Post by: thorny on May 23, 2019, 05:52:38 PM
I notice that a lot of the non-immune settlements are flanked or even surrounded by adjacent mostly-immune settlements. I wonder whether what's been happening is that some of the immune people born in a non-immune settlement move out to claim more area, but remain close to their non-immune relatives both for easy communication and to help protect them by forming a buffer for the more vulnerable?
Anybody know where on that map our crew are at this point? If that's shown, I must have missed it.
Post by: Temteno on May 24, 2019, 10:29:55 AM
Map! yay map!
I notice that a lot of the non-immune settlements are flanked or even surrounded by adjacent mostly-immune settlements. I wonder whether what's been happening is that some of the immune people born in a non-immune settlement move out to claim more area, but remain close to their non-immune relatives both for easy communication and to help protect them by forming a buffer for the more vulnerable?
Anybody know where on that map our crew are at this point? If that's shown, I must have missed it.
I agree that they have moved out to protect the non-immunes, since there aren't really other ways to protect them in Finland.
I think Minna hasn't shown at any time where they are but, as a native Finnish, I think I might be a small help.
As we have seen, the boat that the crew has been traveling on went through many water locks. We have also seen that the boat went on a waterway through Russian. So the only place they could have appeared to the Saimaa is Lappeenranta's canal.
Spoiler: Picture of the Lappeenranta (and Saimaa) canal • show
So they traveled in to the Saimaa. I have few theories in what settlement they stopped by, but I will show the one that I think is the most likely.
Spoiler: Picture of the settlement they stopped by • show
The yellow area is where they most likely stopped by. It is by far the biggest settlement and the waterway of the boat stops there, implying that it's dangerous to go further.
Where they are now with their boat, that's a mystery. I read someone mentioning that Lalli, Tuuri and Onni's settlement was probably lost and is the biggest gray island blob close to Joensuu. I think I can agree with this unless Minna proves wrong. It is also even more secluded by society than the other areas so them being a tight society makes sense.
Spoiler: Picture of the biggest gray island blob close to Joensuu • show
But if all this is true, I'm really worried that the crew has to go through Savonlinna...which is of course, full of rash creatures o__o
Hopefully this wasn't too much to read, I tend to go in details :D
Post by: thorny on May 24, 2019, 02:06:18 PM
Post by: JoB on May 24, 2019, 02:26:24 PM
I notice that a lot of the non-immune settlements are flanked or even surrounded by adjacent mostly-immune settlements. I wonder whether what's been happening is that some of the immune people born in a non-immune settlement move out to claim more area, but remain close to their non-immune relatives both for easy communication and to help protect them by forming a buffer for the more vulnerable?To repeat my Disqus comment, the settlements are kept fed by hunting and outside-the-fortifications agriculture, both of which is immunes' work. Which means that a settlement of mostly non-immunes has a very serious problem with the not-starving business. They need to get it from the Immunopolises surrounding them -. and I'm still trying to come up with a really convincing idea of what they could possibly trade for that without it being a very lopsided deal.
Anybody know where on that map our crew are at this point? If that's shown, I must have missed it.As far as the non-row boat goes, they came on an official other-Known-World-to-Saimaa connection and the ship approached the port pretty much perpendicularly from the "high seas", so I have little doubt that that was indeed one of the two places where the dotted line marking the official connection ends, as Temteno suggested.
Assuming that Home Silent Home isn't exactly next door (the Hotakainen trek towards Keuruu wouldn't be quite that heroic if they had lived within sight of the int'l shipping terminal, right?), they'll have to row around the entire island before they can head NE towards Savonlinna for the next parts of the lake system. Thus, I'ld label the last panel showing them go as "still pretty much right there".
Post by: Grade E cat on May 24, 2019, 03:08:38 PM
To repeat my Disqus comment, the settlements are kept fed by hunting and outside-the-fortifications agriculture, both of which is immunes' work. Which means that a settlement of mostly non-immunes has a very serious problem with the not-starving business. They need to get it from the Immunopolises surrounding them -. and I'm still trying to come up with a really convincing idea of what they could possibly trade for that without it being a very lopsided deal.
One of my guesses would be labor. For example, the immune would be the ones harvesting the grain, but the non-immunes would be the ones making it into flour and baking the bread. Or using the fleece to make fabric and clothes.
Post by: JoB on May 24, 2019, 03:14:47 PM
One of my guesses would be labor. For example, the immune would be the ones harvesting the grain, but the non-immunes would be the ones making it into flour and baking the bread. Or using the fleece to make fabric and clothes.Certainly, but ... can't say I've ever done any of that myself, but I'm not sure that that alone's a fair trade already. The idiom "to live off the land" is IIUC quite literal, in that there's much more work that needs to be done on the fields most of the year 'round than goes into postprocessing what came from there. And there's only so much need for pottery, teaching everyone's children at the local school, forge, etc. etc. ...
Post by: thorny on May 24, 2019, 06:31:33 PM
They might also be doing child care and running hospitals and schools in the better-protected areas. Bear in mind that, if the immune settlements are created by immune people moving out of the mixed settlements to claim new ground, and as it's only year 90, most of the non-immune are probably fairly close relatives of the immune folks. That's going to give them a trade benefit of affection while they build up their manufacturing abilities, and also makes it more likely that small children might be left in their care while immunes are doing risky work.
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on May 24, 2019, 08:31:54 PM
To repeat my Disqus comment, the settlements are kept fed by hunting and outside-the-fortifications agriculture, both of which is immunes' work. Which means that a settlement of mostly non-immunes has a very serious problem with the not-starving business. They need to get it from the Immunopolises surrounding them -. and I'm still trying to come up with a really convincing idea of what they could possibly trade for that without it being a very lopsided deal.They might be where the powder mill and the Haber-Bosch oven are, thus where everyone gets their bullets, explosives and fertilizer from; this would also make sense from a "protect-the-non-immunes" perspective, since they would have the best defensive supply in the area.
Post by: Solokov on May 24, 2019, 11:32:40 PM
Post by: Anna on May 24, 2019, 11:37:16 PM
.... There's a whole lost settlement named Mikkel... I'm absolutely certain that's just a coincidence and not foreshadowingIt’s a city called Mikkeli. Coincidentally, the prologue Hotakainens lived there.
Post by: Grade E cat on May 25, 2019, 01:57:07 AM
Post by: Temteno on May 27, 2019, 08:14:22 PM
What I am also really happy about is that Minna drew Olavinlinna (name of the castle) on the horizon as they row under the Old Bridge of Savonlinna! That city and the castle have really special places in my heart. And hey, if someone has ever a chance, every July there is the Opera Festival in the castle ;)
Spoiler: Olavinlinna on the horizon • show
My assumption of Onni, Lalli and Tuuri's settlement was also wrong. By what I can navigate with the help of the new page, they live in this area (unless they just stopped by that area - then I will be proven wrong again). Pretty close to Savonlinna actually!
Spoiler: The settlement on the map • show
As many others, I'm uneasy of what waits ahead. Things have been pretty calm in this second adventure after all...
Post by: Demopans on May 28, 2019, 08:15:14 AM
Post by: thorny on May 28, 2019, 09:44:23 AM
In other words, pretty much everybody's life, through prehistory and most of history. Much of that was also done in isolated settlements.
Post by: Róisín on May 28, 2019, 09:58:25 AM
Post by: thorny on June 06, 2019, 09:51:28 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on June 06, 2019, 01:10:12 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on June 06, 2019, 10:11:34 PM
But
where is Anne-Mari's stone? *gasp*
(also, it's nice to verify that they are definitely in Y91 now, as per Tuuri's headstone - it's been a topic of speculation for some time)
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on June 06, 2019, 10:36:01 PM
its mouth is full of unbroken skulls... wtf
definitely rates probably a close second to the tooth monster from an early chapter for me
Post by: Solokov on June 07, 2019, 11:27:19 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on June 07, 2019, 12:40:53 PM
*flaps hands at page 108* Confirmation that Tuulikki, Jukka & Juha all died in the whatever went down in year 79. And now Tuuri's stone is next to her father's, so sweet of Onni to look after that way.
But
where is Anne-Mari's stone? *gasp*
(also, it's nice to verify that they are definitely in Y91 now, as per Tuuri's headstone - it's been a topic of speculation for some time)
*Puts on glasses for the sole purpose of taking some stereotypical snooty scholar pose*
Actually, the fact that they are in Year 91 was confirmed by the newspaper (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=50). From my point of view, Tuuri's stone confirmed that the Year had moved to 91 by the time she died.
Otherwise, I am of those who interprets Anne-Mari's stone as missing rather than not shown, if only because I would have personally put the twins together, and their respective families on either side of the pair. Being part of team "Ensi is still alive" contributes to me leaning that way as well.
Also curious about that Hollola grave that belongs to someone who isn't in the family tree.
Post by: Róisín on June 07, 2019, 06:17:40 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on June 07, 2019, 06:49:21 PM
OTOH, I possess a rather specific Estonian surname. There aren't that many Estonians in the US, but there are at least two wholly separate families with my surname. One of those is even from the same area of Estonia (and is not a name of the manor whence its freed serfs were given as their new surname), and yet there is no relation that we can establish.
All told, though, I think it's just an unshown relative whose story does not directly effect our protagonists.
Post by: Suominoita on June 08, 2019, 01:15:48 AM
My theory is that Tuuli had another child; moreover that she was also pregnant in the boat, it just didn't show yet.
Further, Tuuli had recently visited a doctor for ultra-sound and was freaked out by all the Rash patients there. For that reason Tuuli has no intention of giving birth in a hospital. Thus she definitely gets almost everything ready for a sauna-birth. She needs another one who is a mother to help, as that was how it was traditionally done -- enter one heavily pregnant sister-in-law...
Post by: thorny on June 09, 2019, 09:45:59 PM
I wonder which one of them did that? And/or is Lalli there also?
Post by: Antillanka on June 09, 2019, 10:43:48 PM
That's an interesting page.
I wonder which one of them did that? And/or is Lalli there also?
You mean, who hosts the dreamscape? For the trees, I would say Lalli, but I'm ready to be disproved. I hope it's not Lalli, because if this is a remembrance dream sequence, this will hurt a lot (and I bet Lalli would hate it if his friends saw something so personal)
Post by: thorny on June 10, 2019, 10:05:01 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on June 10, 2019, 02:52:38 PM
*Notices the resemblance with something else (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=304)*
Post by: wavewright62 on June 10, 2019, 06:25:45 PM
I meant, mostly, which of them either pulled the other(s) into the same dreamspace, or moved themselves into another's dreamspace. But whose dreamspace it is is also an interesting question. I wonder whether combination dreamspaces are possible?Hey, maybe they're all in Mauri's space! :))
Post by: Mebediel on June 10, 2019, 07:34:51 PM
Hey, maybe they're all in Mauri's space! :))I guess that would be another explanation as to why they're all younger in this dream?
Post by: JoB on June 12, 2019, 12:39:01 PM
Hey, maybe they're all in Mauri's space! :))In post-Rash
Post by: Oripoke on June 15, 2019, 12:56:30 PM
Also, fat kid Emil is adorable. But why is he in a shared dream with the other two? Reynir and Lalli I can understand, but Emil's not a mage. Maybe he has some residual magic from when Lalli was stuck in his head for a few days. We shall see!
Post by: wavewright62 on June 15, 2019, 07:05:42 PM
I'm excited to see where this goes in the next story arc. As far as I can remember, (and based on what Minna said on livestream) this is going to be the first chapter wherein our Terrible Trio can all speak to each other using a common language. I wonder what they'll say to one another, now that they have the chance?
Also, fat kid Emil is adorable. But why is he in a shared dream with the other two? Reynir and Lalli I can understand, but Emil's not a mage. Maybe he has some residual magic from when Lalli was stuck in his head for a few days. We shall see!
I suspect that last point is correct, but we've also seen Lalli (in his ever-so-charming manner) ask Reynir to meet him on purpose. I don't think this particular meet-up is at all on purpose, though, especially seeing Lalli's face. Does this Lalli have the same self-awareness that Emil showed in his dreamspace?
Also very excited to see.
Post by: Suominoita on June 16, 2019, 10:03:55 AM
I suspect that last point is correct, but we've also seen Lalli (in his ever-so-charming manner) ask Reynir to meet him on purpose. I don't think this particular meet-up is at all on purpose, though, especially seeing Lalli's face. Does this Lalli have the same self-awareness that Emil showed in his dreamspace?
Also very excited to see.
Not on purpose, no. Emil has seen the same dream of his past over and over until Lalli was in it. This time, Lalli is having a similar dream, and for some reason both Emil and Reynir are also in it...
It's just too much of a difference not to notice. Seeing these two people there as children is just such a definite tell that it just brings that awareness along if it wasn't there earlier. Especially with Reynir lacking his braid.
Sure, Lalli's wish-dream had Reynir say he'd cut it off; in this one he apparently has -- but then he was brought to harsh reality...
Post by: thorny on June 16, 2019, 11:31:55 AM
Children's hair is easier to deal with if it's cut fairly short. At least, my mother thought so. I didn't get to grow mine out until I was old enough to take care of it myself.
Post by: Grade E cat on June 16, 2019, 12:23:56 PM
The page suggests that he didn't really start growing it until his childhood was fairly advanced.
Post by: thorny on June 17, 2019, 08:30:10 AM
-- bah. I just realized that whatever happens to the people probably happens to the cats, too.
Post by: Temteno on June 17, 2019, 04:16:43 PM
There are road signs pointing to Keskusta (Centre) and Niemelän tila (Niemelä's farm). Lalli and the crew are coming from Center (possibly meaning the center of the village) and going towards the Niemelä's farm. As the map of Saimaa has established before, the farming parts are surrounding the village centers.
They might just go past it but you know, I can't help but have a bad feeling about every small detail o___o
Trolls aren't the reason why the village got wiped off from the world map, but would the farm connect in any way? Only times shows.
Post by: wavewright62 on June 17, 2019, 07:11:06 PM
I think I can't just stay quietly and wait, so better just to have conspiracy over what maybe happens.
There are road signs pointing to Keskusta (Centre) and Niemelän tila (Niemelä's farm). Lalli and the crew are coming from Center (possibly meaning the center of the village) and going towards the Niemelä's farm. As the map of Saimaa has established before, the farming parts are surrounding the village centers.
They might just go past it but you know, I can't help but have a bad feeling about every small detail o___o
Trolls aren't the reason why the village got wiped off from the world map, but would the farm connect in any way? Only times shows.
Indeed, the name of the farm wouldn't be included like this for no reason. I'm not sure why there's a sign indicating the centre, as there isn't a wharf at this bridge, it's elsewhere at the settlement. Perhaps there's a separate wharf on the (right-hand) half.
*sits and waits next to Temteno*
Post by: Keeper on June 17, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
We do have somewhat of a record of the length of Reynir's hair at different ages. (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=292)
The page suggests that he didn't really start growing it until his childhood was fairly advanced.
I just had a hilarious realization while looking back at this page: Bjarni is a mechanic. What happened on his job to make him say, "...and that's when I knew what death looks like." ? XD
Post by: Grade E cat on June 18, 2019, 02:12:25 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on June 18, 2019, 04:02:02 PM
I just had a hilarious realization while looking back at this page: Bjarni is a mechanic. What happened on his job to make him say, "...and that's when I knew what death looks like." ? XD
I think that a stream transcript that got posted before the people taking care of it got too busy has Minna explain that Bjarni once had to make a repair a little too close to the location of a fight between his crewmates and a sea beast, or something like that.
Oh, I just thought he'd been called upon to help repair the Dalahästen at some point.
Post by: Noi on June 26, 2019, 04:58:08 PM
Q.: So how did he find out "how death looks like" as a mechanic?
A. (1:08:04): Well, first you go working on a sea-beast hunting ship as a mechanic, and you look out the window, and the warriors that are supposed to fight sea-beast on little hunting vessels get completely crushed by the monster and there you are, the mechanic looking out the window, seeing all of it while you’re fixing a leaky pipe or something, and then you have nightmares for the rest of your life.
Post by: wavewright62 on June 26, 2019, 05:58:10 PM
The exact transcript is:
Q.: So how did he find out "how death looks like" as a mechanic?
A. (1:08:04): Well, first you go working on a sea-beast hunting ship as a mechanic, and you look out the window, and the warriors that are supposed to fight sea-beast on little hunting vessels get completely crushed by the monster and there you are, the mechanic looking out the window, seeing all of it while you’re fixing a leaky pipe or something, and then you have nightmares for the rest of your life.
Scholarship for the win! Thanks for that. (https://40.media.tumblr.com/8e27cc4449e09726c016b13c251ef913/tumblr_ns3oczier61r6soqlo1_400.png)
Post by: Grade E cat on July 01, 2019, 12:21:28 PM
EDIT: Thanks to a combination of now having a job, having a rule against logging into anything personal that isn't my e-mail from work, France's one-hour difference with Finland and this week's early updates, I got proven wrong in record time :)).
Post by: wavewright62 on July 01, 2019, 04:04:51 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on July 01, 2019, 04:13:57 PM
Post by: thorny on July 08, 2019, 08:55:53 AM
Post by: Solokov on July 08, 2019, 09:19:00 AM
Post by: Oripoke on July 08, 2019, 04:39:28 PM
It came out of weeks in quarantine, and we know their village wasn't killed by a Rash outbreak, so it isn't anything biological... my intuition is that it has something to do with dark magic, or maybe a malicious spirit.
Post by: thorny on July 16, 2019, 08:33:45 AM
Are we sure it's not a Rash outbreak? On page 107 Mauri says it wasn't a troll attack; but maybe he just means a troll attack from outside. And he does refer to an "outbreak". But isn't Hilja supposed to be immune?
.
Post by: Demopans on July 16, 2019, 12:18:09 PM
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on July 16, 2019, 04:10:08 PM
In other words, what we're seeing here is a deliberate, well-planned strategy to infiltrate and destroy a settlement rather than a brute force assault. The obvious counter would be to have mages and/or cats at every quarantine facility scanning every last thing that goes into/through the facility.
I also think the kade will turn out to be a trollified Hilja.
Post by: Róisín on July 16, 2019, 07:17:59 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on July 16, 2019, 11:37:12 PM
<totallyblueskyspeculation>We may be seeing something different. We have seen:
-- grosslings who lose themselves in both physical and dream space, scattering mind and body with random malice regardless of the danger to themselves,
-- trolls who maintain the ability to focus their malice and communication toward those who can comprehend the dreamspace,
-- immune humans who are unaffected on either plane,
-- immune and non-immune mages both with the ability to traipse around the dreamspace,
-- trolls who have kept the ability to vocally communicate with ordinary humans (notoros), and
-- at least one troll who was able to stay coherent enough in her mind to keep the semblence of her (very likely mage) personality intact despite her body's affliction.
We may now be seeing a person with her body unaffected by the affliction, though her magical mind is. Her grip on this plane comes and goes, mimicking the effects of dementia; she may have developed the malice toward uninfected humans that we see in many trolls. Her body may not even be infectious according to the 'known' vectors of infection, but she may be able to spread the spiritual side. </totallyblueskyspeculation>
(Now that I've written that, it will totally NOT come to pass. Relieved?)
What's in the bundle? Her mother Helmi's best cooking gear, rescued from Mikkeli? Probably not.
Post by: Oripoke on July 17, 2019, 06:23:36 PM
Also, according to the man tending the graveyard, it was not a troll attack (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=107) that destroyed Lalli's home village -- which makes me think it was something else altogether.
Either way... Hilja's practicing some black magic, definitely.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on July 17, 2019, 07:16:41 PM
i forget if the comic has talked about kades anywhere other than that 1 info page where they are briefly referenced. but it seems fairly likely that we're about to see one first-hand. (and i like that theory about a kade potentially being somebody whose mind is infected in dreamspace, while their body is still intact)
Post by: wavewright62 on July 18, 2019, 11:54:05 PM
I find myself wondering about Onni & Lalli & Tuuri referring to Grandma's 'one mistake.' I don't think any of them, as kids, would come up with a singular action to peg as her mistake (unless maybe she gives an overly-powerful Power Blast in the fight?). That sort of hindsight is normally the realm of adults, and Tuuri and Lalli are only barely that - their usage of the term seems more long-standing and understood.
Which adult would pin a mistake on Ensi? Ensi herself, I reckon, and I doubt she would tell the young'uns that while she was trying to hunt them down.
Post by: thorny on July 19, 2019, 12:17:52 AM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on July 19, 2019, 02:58:30 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on July 19, 2019, 04:25:36 PM
Otherwise, something tells me Lalli isn't going to join his cousins to escape quite yet. If only because he has yet to acquire Ensi's rifle.
Post by: midwestmutt on July 19, 2019, 05:18:36 PM
Post by: Róisín on July 20, 2019, 08:07:19 AM
Post by: Vulpes on July 20, 2019, 04:39:35 PM
[...] something tells me Lalli isn't going to join his cousins to escape quite yet. If only because he has yet to acquire Ensi's rifle.
Oh... good point! Also if we're to find out what happened via this dream, I think he has to have seen it... maybe...?
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on July 21, 2019, 08:44:25 PM
Post by: Solokov on July 22, 2019, 09:31:16 PM
Post by: thorny on July 23, 2019, 08:04:28 AM
Hilja's their friend, of many years. Her daughter's sitting at the festival tables waiting for them to bring her down to join the party -- the use of code words was probably so as not to alert the daughter. And 'you all know the protocol' -- and there are the rifles. We all know what the protocol has to be.
-- I don't know that I'd put too much into Lalli having to get Ensi's rifle. He may get it at some point during the incident, of course, either directly from Ensi or by picking it up on the battlefield; but remember the cemetery? Somebody came along after this was all over and buried the bodies. Whoever did that very likely also salvaged anything as important as rifles; and even if the burial group didn't include Lalli, they might have given it to him later; he's the obvious heir, and as even a half-trained scout has a use for it.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 23, 2019, 12:42:01 PM
On one hand, it looks like too much trouble to do do, at least fairly fast and right after a disaster that likely put a spotlight on a protocol problem. On the other, the earliest point at which Lalli is seen with the rifle is eleven years after the fact (no sign of it in the 84 flashback), so it could have taken months to years for him to get it back, and we wouldn't know.
Post by: wavewright62 on July 23, 2019, 04:41:38 PM
Post by: thorny on July 23, 2019, 04:56:04 PM
They might not all, or even any, get killed right off. They might instead get infected -- same end result, but time to make arrangements.
I wonder whether whatever happened on the other islands has already happened, and that's where Hilja picked it up; or whether whatever it is escapes this lsland and then goes on to others. If something's still hunting survivors years later, though, then something survived.
Post by: Solokov on July 23, 2019, 07:55:26 PM
I think the worst possible scenario is that Ensi survives, but that her mistake was simply not bulldogging onto lalli's intuition in the first place.
Also having some serious flashbacks to when I came up with the concept of a "puppeteer" type troll for that AO3 story I put up a while ago.
Post by: thorny on July 25, 2019, 08:22:57 AM
Sunlight, plants, that cozy reading nook --
Post by: Róisín on July 25, 2019, 08:57:51 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on July 25, 2019, 12:48:56 PM
Post by: Solokov on July 25, 2019, 08:39:41 PM
Post by: Mebediel on July 26, 2019, 05:29:23 PM
It's eating him! And then it's going to eat us!... OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOD!
I know that it's probably not the bag that's eating him, but it looks like it is, and all I can think of is this book from Harry Potter:
(https://www.sideshow.com/storage/product-images/902310/the-monster-book-of-monsters_harry-potter_gallery_5c4e0ae5b5712.jpg)
Post by: Solokov on July 27, 2019, 09:15:46 AM
I know that it's probably not the bag that's eating him, but it looks like it is, and all I can think of is this book from Harry Potter:
(https://www.sideshow.com/storage/product-images/902310/the-monster-book-of-monsters_harry-potter_gallery_5c4e0ae5b5712.jpg)
I remember from reading the book magical beasts and where to find them, there's literally a creature that's an animated cloak that eats people that potentially is closer to what's stop the table.
Post by: Mebediel on July 28, 2019, 12:04:36 AM
I remember from reading the book magical beasts and where to find them, there's literally a creature that's an animated cloak that eats people that potentially is closer to what's stop the table.Oooo interesting! Just Googled it and apparently the Harry Potter creature is called a Lethifold, but I wasn't able to find whether or not it was based off of any folklore/mythology. I was getting so excited about maybe being able to use a connection to figure out what Hilja's package was ^_^' Oh well
Post by: Noodles on July 28, 2019, 07:45:44 PM
Post by: thorny on July 28, 2019, 10:13:05 PM
I can't tell whether all that stringy stuff is bindings -- in which case why is it partly undone? or part of the troll -- in which case why did it stay in the bundle?
Post by: Solokov on July 29, 2019, 09:43:46 AM
Post by: JoB on July 29, 2019, 12:00:09 PM
Did Hilja have the thing tied up in there?
I can't tell whether all that stringy stuff is bindings -- in which case why is it partly undone? or part of the troll -- in which case why did it stay in the bundle?
As I just posted to Disqus, if that thing is possessed in some way as well and the "rider" is evil, the option of letting it struggle (vainly) against its bonds (when no villagers are watching) might qualify as the onboard entertainment system.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 29, 2019, 01:06:42 PM
dunno. methinks she may have used it to taint the food/water supply though and that's what happened to the town.
I don't think water supply tainting is needed, since Hilja may have very well infected Illmari during the bake sale, and almost two weeks have gone by since (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=123). There was a bunch of people at that bake sale, and all those people are now welcoming family members back from the harvest.
Otherwise, an idea that could support the "Ukko-Pekka is the kade" theory crossed my mind. I started wondering if a factor other than coincidential close proximity could have made only Lalli notice something was off with the rat-bundle, and I started wondering if it could be because he's related to whoever made the masking spell, while Ensi is not. The kade would hence have a reason to go after Lalli and Onni to get rid of mages that can see through its spells, and would also want to get rid of the twins and their wives so they don't have more kids.
Post by: Solokov on July 31, 2019, 07:38:51 PM
But yeah, looking back that guy who she breathed in his face is infected for sure.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on August 01, 2019, 07:57:40 AM
here's my theory: i think ensi might still be alive. i don't think anybody has ever explicitly said that she's dead. plus we don't see her gravestone in lalli's hometown which seems like a significant detail.
it's even possible we're currently viewing her dream, and not lalli's (which could answer some comments i've seen on disqus expressing disbelief that lalli would have been present when ensi went to confront hilja)
if it is ensi's dream, that probably means she's close by -- so the crew will meet her soon after the dream most likely.
Post by: thorny on August 01, 2019, 08:21:14 AM
It's also occured to me that maybe what Lalli sensed about the bundle wasn't the creature inside but the masking spells themselves?
Post by: Temteno on August 01, 2019, 09:42:29 AM
I tried to circle with different colors what parts are what (in my opinion).
Spoiler: The troll anatomy • show
Blue = Some gooey mess. Maybe brains, some important organ, tongue or its 'weapon'. At the moment I have no idea, but that seems to have "punched" the Cat Man.
Red = Maybe it has been previously hair or maybe it's some sort of weird teeth set now. Still no idea, it seems to protect the gooey mess though.
Yellow = The whole other body. I didn't circle the legs that are on the side, but the general idea should be pretty clear.
Pink = The gunshot. Seems like the Cat Man put the gun into the troll and shoot it (that's where the 'blam' noise comes from').
Hopefully this made things somewhat clear. I just hope that I understood the panel right after analyzing it for a good time :D
Post by: thorny on August 01, 2019, 10:58:56 PM
-- Cat Man's alive, it looks like; though who knows for how long?
Is that blood on one cat's leg in the last panel? Might not be the cat's blood, of course, even if so. I find myself hoping that they survive somehow, at least.
Post by: thorny on August 02, 2019, 10:11:57 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 02, 2019, 11:28:06 PM
I keep thinking of that blood trail starting at the bed. Something that was still partly Hilja, and that must have been in pain, went and lay down on the familiar bed in the familiar comfortable cottage, probably seeking comfort. And then what she turned into split her body apart and climbed up into the rafters --Yes, the lovely bed with the sun streaming down onto it, which would have been so comforting to Hilja but so intolerable to the troll. 8(
Post by: thorny on August 06, 2019, 11:04:20 AM
I'm seeing, I hope correctly, resignation in that last gesture and not just cowering in fear: more 'OK, I know what you have to do, but I'm not going to watch.'
-- I had been somewhat expecting all through this that Hilja-troll had some sort of plan, and had thought at first that she was deliberately in ambush and was then running to somewhere specific from where she could carry out further plans. It doesn't seem to be that, though; both the attack on Cat Man and the dash away from the cottage seem to have just been a panic reaction, attempting to get away without any actual plan. So whatever was going on with the Thing in the Package, Hilja must not have expected to herself become trollified -- either that, or she was indeed under the control of somebody/something else, which did expect that to happen but didn't care. If the second, I really hope she was somehow unaware at least most of the time of what was going to happen.
Post by: Grade E cat on August 06, 2019, 01:00:19 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 06, 2019, 06:43:33 PM
I wonder whether Ensi can communicate with Hilja on the spirit plane to get some answers, before she dispatches her onward. But I feel that if Ensi attempts this, Hilja might get away? That would set up an oddly disembodied malevolence and also the fabled 'mistake.' But as usual, anything I guess is unlikely to be true.
Post by: thorny on August 06, 2019, 10:45:45 PM
I suspect Illmari is going to be "in dire need of less itchy clothes" soon...
I have an unpleasant guess about the next page:
Cats still puffed up. Ilmari, who just said 'it's over now', says to the cats, why are you still fluffed? is there another troll here somewhere? and reaches out to pick up a cat --
and they both back away and start hissing at Ilmari.
Any plan that *counts* on trollification happening cannot be a good plan, seeing as how only a small percentage of infected persons turn into trolls.
The rest of them die, though. It seems unlikely that Hilja intended herself either to die or to trollify. So either she was trying to do something else and it went horribly wrong; or she was under control of something/somebody else.
Post by: Grade E cat on August 07, 2019, 12:51:37 PM
I have an unpleasant guess about the next page:
Cats still puffed up. Ilmari, who just said 'it's over now', says to the cats, why are you still fluffed? is there another troll here somewhere? and reaches out to pick up a cat --
and they both back away and start hissing at Ilmari.
I happen to remember that right before going to search for Hilja, Catman and his cats were right next to Illmari (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=124), and the cats were fine. When Kitty was first shown avoiding Tuuri, the two of them had spent an entire day in different rooms. While the presence of both a beast and a troll would probably overshadow that of someone just starting to get sick enough that cats would notice, the cats puffing up at Illmari would require Illmari to have literally passed the threshold between metaphorical pure white and metaphorical very light red during the time the "weapons inspection" took to happen.
Post by: thorny on August 07, 2019, 03:54:20 PM
But it's also entirely possible that my guess is wrong.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 20, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Since there's been quite a lot of discussion on kade lately I thought to put together a small kade introduction!
Kade
First things first - anyone could be a kade. There's even a saying that the whole land is full of witches and kade, which refers to people generally having an ill will towards each other. Kade translates roughly as "envious" or "jealous", a person who feels so powerfully negative about lacking something that this negativity itself twists them into a kade and makes their every act an act of malice. A kade could steal all the happiness from a house, or according to another saying "envy can empty a whole lake of fish"; a sudden turn of bad luck or loss of reputation for someone/s who hitherto had been enjoying good fortune was usually explained as work of a kade.
Kade didn't even have to do much, although occasionally they were said to use magic against people. Usually a mere glance at your direction could give you bad luck (which is why newborn children were kept hidden until their first tooth grew = until they had gained themselves a luonto-soul). Not every kade was this dangerous however, a normal person turning kade could not cause much damage simply because their power level was not high enough. A dangerous kade would either be a talented witch, or a person who enjoyed a powerful position in society. Occasionally a lifetime of bitterness and envy could also grow a dangerously strong kade.
Kade could for example make the cows stop giving milk, turn good luck to bad, cause accidents or sudden damage to property (without being present in the actual calamity), cause arguments, turn best friends or even happy, married couples against each other, send nightmares and creatures called "night-cry" that make newborn babies cry all night long and so forth. Kade could also spread illness, boils and rash...
In the old Finnish calendar the last Thursday of each month is "day of kade", a day when anything you try goes wrong and everything you start ends up badly. In comparison the 8th and 9th day of each month are good luck days, and if you have to start a project that'll take a while to finish, it's always best to start it in the beginning of the month and especially on the 8th and 9th days.
Post by: Róisín on August 20, 2019, 08:05:16 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on August 24, 2019, 05:08:16 AM
Post by: Suominoita on August 26, 2019, 05:55:49 PM
I was re-reading the TVTropes entry I wrote about the prologue Hotakainens foreshadowing stuff about the present-day ones (mostly Tuuri's fate, though), and I rememebered a piece of dialog that looks like someone had a good hunch of what would happen within his niece's lifetime: Bans on public gathering places, uh? (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=31) (last panel)
Yes.. and, coming with all the preparation and food storage, maybe he's had some other hunches too. Tuuli and the sauna-birth -- well, I think that did end up happening...
Also... Eino calling Helmi a witch -- maybe he's not that far off...
Post by: wavewright62 on August 27, 2019, 12:16:55 AM
Yes.. and, coming with all the preparation and food storage, maybe he's had some other hunches too. Tuuli and the sauna-birth -- well, I think that did end up happening...
Also... Eino calling Helmi a witch -- maybe he's not that far off...
I'm fairly sure Minna confirmed Ensi's sauna birth on one of the streams.
Helmi-as-a-troll pops up from time to time among fan speculation, but usually as a spit-take. But...who knows, that might be genuine foreshadowing!
Also, panel 5 of that same page - tell me that's not Tuuri's stubborn pout on Aino's face!
Post by: thorny on October 02, 2019, 12:49:03 PM
The islands are all shown as being on fire at once -- presumably as part of the cleansing process? So they must all have been infected by the time the cleaning crews got there. But those crews were notified as soon as Ensi realized Helga had already spread the infection; so before Ensi, even if she did get taken over by the kade, could have infected all those other islands herself. And it took some time for Hilja to infect her own island -- she had to first infect herself from the small troll, then develop the infection to the point at which she was contagious -- can't remember how long that takes, but several days, I think? And as she arrived on her own island uninfected (although controlled by the kade) she can't have infected all the other islands en route.
Did the kade take over multiple travellers at once, each from different islands?
Did multiple trollified people from Ensi's island escape to the other islands before the cleansers got there, despite Code Zero procedures presumably designed to keep everyone in place and despite the fact that nobody other than Hilja had been showing any symptoms at all yet and there appears to be at least some delay between first symptoms and loss of control of the original personality, and manage to spread infection quickly enough that it was already past containment on those islands also?
Did Hilja infect not only herself, but a batch of other mammals, and somehow get those mammals over to multiple other islands without anyone noticing her doing that?
Do people routinely travel between the islands with sufficient frequency that infected-but-not-yet-symptomatic residents of Ensi's island had coughed on people from the other islands? And, if so, how did Omni and Tuuri escape infection?
Post by: Grade E cat on October 02, 2019, 01:27:49 PM
I admit it may be strange to have quarantine for just the farm island but not others, but that's what I'm going with unless something else comes up.
Post by: wavewright62 on October 02, 2019, 03:55:08 PM
*puffs in face* "Yes, I've been through quarantine, I know the procedures." *puffs again* "You don't have to get officious with me, I just want to get some of Anu's mead and I'll be gone."
Post by: thorny on October 08, 2019, 11:37:07 AM
Now I've got another one: it seems that, at least from this one point guarded by the Bird Man, people have been going out into the Silent World all along. So our team's expedition wasn't all that unusual; or at least not all that unusual for that reason. Maybe what made it such a big deal was that they were going into an area nobody'd gone into for many years?
And why is regular quarantine sufficient for people returning from other uncleansed areas, but not for people returning from this one? Yes, I know there's a kade in this one. But they have no way of knowing whether there are kades in the other uncleansed areas, also.
Post by: Noodles on October 08, 2019, 10:34:00 PM
Post by: thorny on October 09, 2019, 10:25:42 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on November 16, 2019, 01:43:55 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on November 16, 2019, 03:40:04 PM
Something just hit me concerning the possible reason next week's pages are spoilery. The Adventure II cover (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=1) shows the white bird-thingy some of us suspect to be Tuuri in some form in landscape full of cars. There's certainly plenty of cars around the crew right now.
Om my goodness, that is a great catch!
Post by: Jitter on November 17, 2019, 11:39:49 AM
Post by: Oripoke on November 25, 2019, 11:04:07 PM
Yikes! It looks like mini-car troll cast Summon Bigger Fish. Giant truck monster looks a LOT scarier, and way harder to deal with.
Is the crew gonna run, or stand their ground and fight? Given that they have a non-immune among them (Reynir), fighting it may not be the wisest option...
Also, all in favor of calling these car-trolls "Hermits"? They look like hermit crabs with those pointy legs...
Post by: wavewright62 on November 26, 2019, 03:31:14 PM
[Pg. 190 (https://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=190)]
Yikes! It looks like mini-car troll cast Summon Bigger Fish. Giant truck monster looks a LOT scarier, and way harder to deal with.
Is the crew gonna run, or stand their ground and fight? Given that they have a non-immune among them (Reynir), fighting it may not be the wisest option...
Also, all in favor of calling these car-trolls "Hermits"? They look like hermit crabs with those pointy legs...
Iiiii think we may get to see more rune action, maybe, despite Reynir playing it down.
Post by: LilG on November 27, 2019, 12:07:11 AM
Though, i don't think they have time for that, considering that the hermits are closing in on them at a moderate speed.
Post by: thorny on January 24, 2020, 11:19:11 PM
Who is Onni talking to? Himself? Tuuri? Other? Anybody wanna guess?
Post by: Keep Looking on January 25, 2020, 07:51:43 AM
Post by: JoB on January 26, 2020, 07:09:03 AM
Who is Onni talking to? Himself? Tuuri? Other? Anybody wanna guess?While I agree that Tuuri, already having been shown in a panel as far as we can tell, is the likeliest answer, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of other possibilities. We know (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=411) that major spirits/gods have remained from pre-Rash times, and the hallmark of a Finnish mage like Onni is the ability to perceive - and, I suppose, communicate with - them. Picture a regionally important entity getting fed up with said region having turned into a Supertroll Zone and a cooperation with whatever professional noita shows up there - note that Väinö insists on staying out and observing from a distance - becomes a distinct possibility ...
Post by: thorny on January 26, 2020, 11:22:13 AM
We know[/url] that major spirits/gods have remained from pre-Rash times, and the hallmark of a Finnish mage like Onni is the ability to perceive - and, I suppose, communicate with - them. Picture a regionally important entity getting fed up with said region having turned into a Supertroll Zone and a cooperation with whatever professional noita shows up there - note that Väinö insists on staying out and observing from a distance - becomes a distinct possibility ...
That's a really interesting idea. I'd love to see a local spirit-of-the-place show up and get involved in this.
Post by: Jitter on January 26, 2020, 01:51:39 PM
On that vein, what kind of places would you suppose have their Keepers in this world? In pre-Christian times is was many natural features, and some human places (home, sauna, drying barn etc), but not every place had them. Would the Keepers have disappeared and now come back, which would mean that they appear for human places as of current humankind. Or would they have been there all the time, just hidden?
Or to put it in other words, would you suppose there could be a Keeper of the airport here? As it is, it’s not a notable natural place, and it has no meaning for the humans of Y91, but in the pre-rash times it could have held significance to many people.
Post by: Róisín on January 26, 2020, 05:36:17 PM
Though in this instance my guess would be that he is talking to Tuuri.
Post by: thorny on February 02, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on February 03, 2020, 08:22:53 PM
Is Lalli detecting trolls by scent?
I don't think so. In previous sniffing incidents, Minna actually writes 'sniff sniff' and draws the nose from underneath. Here, the little action lines are at the bridge of his nose, not the bottom, and in a radius around the focus of his squint. I think he's concentrating his 'third eye' or noita senses to try to tease out more specific details from the general trollish noise.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on February 05, 2020, 10:27:50 PM
1. it just occurred to me that each person in the group has a bond with everybody else -- even lalli connected to sigrun a little bit in the last page with some swedish (plus they already had a good working relationship). but reynir has basically no personal connection to emil (except age) and even less with sigrun. so it's funny to see a page where we actually see sigrun and reynir being awkward haha.
it's like how there's always 1 person in your friend group that you don't like being alone with because you have nothing to talk about lol.
2. sigrun saying "they probably had a whole bunch of non-immunes in there!" about the ruined settlement brings up a point that i don't think has been discussed very much -- are grosslings more attracted to non-immunes than immunes? and if so, why?
we know from notoros that they probably just like eating people in general (regardless of immunity). but i've gotten a sense in a few places throughout the story that they seem to go after non-immunes more. for example when the crabtroll lunged at reynir specifically, when the giant on the train tried to get into the area with the non-immunes... and most notably, when the troll that got tuuri sensed her and reynir inside the cattank (despite there being no visible indication of people in there) and went after them
Post by: Róisín on February 06, 2020, 12:02:17 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on February 06, 2020, 05:36:20 PM
a few things:
1. it just occurred to me that each person in the group has a bond with everybody else -- even lalli connected to sigrun a little bit in the last page with some swedish (plus they already had a good working relationship). but reynir has basically no personal connection to emil (except age) and even less with sigrun. so it's funny to see a page where we actually see sigrun and reynir being awkward haha.
They did have the experience in Pastor Anne's church together, even though they can't talk about it directly. Also, she did try to relay via Mikkel that he should consider making staves in blood. So she has some kind of working relationship with him.
Post by: thorny on February 20, 2020, 09:30:25 PM
I have just got to say that I love page 232.
[good grief. Did I just hit 1000 posts? Didn't notice that till afterwards.]
Post by: Keep Looking on February 21, 2020, 01:19:01 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on February 22, 2020, 04:29:42 PM
[good grief. Did I just hit 1000 posts? Didn't notice that till afterwards.]
Yes, and I have been watching that tantalising 999 posts all week! Please go claim your airport over in the Promotion Celebrations thread.
Post by: Jitter on February 23, 2020, 07:18:12 AM
Post by: Temteno on February 25, 2020, 03:11:17 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on February 25, 2020, 05:55:28 PM
She took the initiative to invite Reynir to play, finding a way to overcome the language barrier. Even as she's easily bored, I feel that she's also doing that to interact with him outside the "Commanding Officer" role that she usually plays with the younger members of the team.
Post by: Jitter on February 26, 2020, 01:05:30 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on February 26, 2020, 05:19:01 AM
Once on that role she felt the need to keep some distance from the rest. With time and after all they went through together that stance started to change. First with Mikkel, that she sees more as an equal to herself, then with Emil, that she always saw as a partner in fighting, and now with Lalli and Reynir.
As you said it was a facade, and inside we will find a playful Sigrun :-) Now I'm waiting to see her playing with Kitty!
Post by: Jitter on February 26, 2020, 10:06:33 AM
Post by: Temteno on February 26, 2020, 12:29:25 PM
Sigrun needs to keep the facade though so that they wouldn't stop to take her seriously ;) She can't fool Mikkel though!
Post by: Jitter on February 27, 2020, 12:28:27 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on February 27, 2020, 12:45:14 PM
It even makes me fear for him, as I have no doubt that in an extreme situation he would put himself at risk to protect the others (let's hope Minna doesn't read this).
Besides that, page 878 is so funny, with Mikkel furious and them, as Sigrun arrives, playing cool.
There's also, with the "heart attack" talk, a hint of Mikkel and Sigrun caring for each other here... :-)
Post by: thorny on February 27, 2020, 11:45:43 PM
They may not be demonstrative about it; but there's quite a bond through the whole band of them. Even Lalli almost certainly didn't try to go without the rest of the group because he didn't want them, but because he didn't want to endanger them.
Post by: thegreyarea on February 28, 2020, 05:51:07 AM
They may not be demonstrative about it; but there's quite a bond through the whole band of them. Even Lalli almost certainly didn't try to go without the rest of the group because he didn't want them, but because he didn't want to endanger them.
Agreed. Not being demonstrative is also, I believe, a cultural thing. It's the way (most) Northern Europeans behave. And now my imagination is running wild creating an alternative SSSS that could exist if Minna was Italian or Portuguese. Things will surely be quite different, even more if she was Brazilian... :-)
Post by: thorny on February 28, 2020, 09:51:11 AM
Agreed. Not being demonstrative is also, I believe, a cultural thing. It's the way (most) Northern Europeans behave.
And I think this would have been reinforced by the trauma first of Year Zero, and then of the continuing situation. People would have needed desperately to be able to put aside their grief, terror, and horror enough to keep working -- and to work frantically hard in order to build barriers and to set up functioning systems to feed themselves and provide other resources. This will all have gradually somewhat died down by year 90 -- but for one thing, the impact on societal norms would take a whole lot longer to dissipate; and for another, note that "somewhat". Settlements are still disappearing; and three (counting Onni and Tuuri) of our group are themselves the apparent sole survivors of such a disaster.
Post by: thegreyarea on February 28, 2020, 11:43:02 AM
And I think this would have been reinforced by the trauma first of Year Zero, and then of the continuing situation.Agreed. And probably physical contact would became much more limited. Maybe not touching would be a social rule. You would have to be very close to someone to overlook that.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on March 04, 2020, 08:09:11 PM
Post by: thorny on March 04, 2020, 09:59:05 PM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on March 11, 2020, 02:37:34 PM
"some trolls have been known to spit."
but have trolls been known to expel bile from tanks on their back? O_O
Post by: Alkia on March 11, 2020, 04:54:02 PM
seeing this latest page i'm reminded of the info page showing the distance that the rash can travel depending on what the source is.
"some trolls have been known to spit."
but have trolls been known to expel bile from tanks on their back? O_O
I don't know who, but I agree with whoever said that someone on this expedition really needs to start taking notes!!! Never mind valuable books, never mind Onni, think of what they could do with all this information of the silent world!
Post by: Mebediel on March 11, 2020, 05:31:00 PM
I don't know who, but I agree with whoever said that someone on this expedition really needs to start taking notes!!! Never mind valuable books, never mind Onni, think of what they could do with all this information of the silent world!*cries in missing Tuuri*
Post by: wavewright62 on March 11, 2020, 06:15:39 PM
I don't know who, but I agree with whoever said that someone on this expedition really needs to start taking notes!!! Never mind valuable books, never mind Onni, think of what they could do with all this information of the silent world!
I have a headcanon that Mikkel penned his memoirs after these expeditions, but skewed somewhat to cast himself in a more favourable light and liberally laced with 'true stories,' while ignoring the role of magework. This memoir became the prevailing reference document for histories of the events.
Spoiler: shameless self promotion irrelevant to the thread • show
Post by: Jitter on March 11, 2020, 06:53:28 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on March 12, 2020, 06:26:29 AM
I have a headcanon that Mikkel penned his memoirs after these expeditions, but skewed somewhat to cast himself in a more favourable light and liberally laced with 'true stories,' while ignoring the role of magework. This memoir became the prevailing reference document for histories of the events...That's amazing, Wave! I love the details in the Opera drawing and how you managed to put all the characters there, and...
Haa! It’s Mikkel the Greek God again
...and of course Mikkel the Greek God, facing their enemies with its bare hands!
Post by: Jitter on March 12, 2020, 01:08:54 PM
I especially love the detail of how one of the trolls wounds Tuuri by pulling the red scarf into the air. I take you know a lot about stage productions, Wave!
Post by: wavewright62 on March 12, 2020, 07:36:39 PM
Haa! It’s Mikkel the Greek God again 😍
That's amazing, Wave! I love the details in the Opera drawing and how you managed to put all the characters there, and...
...and of course Mikkel the Greek God, facing their enemies with its bare hands!
With his bare chest!
I especially love the detail of how one of the trolls wounds Tuuri by pulling the red scarf into the air. I take you know a lot about stage productions, Wave!
Thanks for that!
I maaaay have seen a few ballet/dance performances in my lifetime (my ex was a sometime ballet dancer), in the years before I got poor.
(The 80s were gooood times for dance. Duck AIDs.)
Post by: Róisín on March 12, 2020, 07:49:44 PM
Post by: Vulpes on March 14, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
I have a headcanon that Mikkel penned his memoirs after these expeditions, but skewed somewhat to cast himself in a more favourable light and liberally laced with 'true stories,' while ignoring the role of magework. This memoir became the prevailing reference document for histories of the events.Spoiler: shameless self promotion irrelevant to the thread • show
*splutters incoherently*
The opera and the ballet are...
*more spluttering*
I am soooo impressed. Brilliant. This made my day, after a long, chaotic and aggravating week.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on March 14, 2020, 09:59:17 PM
Just noticed that the Cat-Tank is now in Mikkel's image. I am now deceased.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 15, 2020, 01:34:25 AM
I have now stared at that opera image on three different occasions, and each time I find a new detail.(Actually, the picture is of the Nutcracker, with the big Mikkel being the Nutcracker grown large. There was a large cattank in the pencils, in the back of the stage, but I couldn't get it to work and it didn't make the final image. I substituted the star pendants as a last-minute addition.)(But thanks!)
Just noticed that the Cat-Tank is now in Mikkel's image. I am now deceased.
(There are no images of the opera, as in the fic the players were just gathered around a bare stage in their normal clothes, singing off their printed parts.)
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on March 16, 2020, 10:11:59 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on March 16, 2020, 02:48:54 PM
Calling it now -- Mikkel's plan is to make the troll fall over on its backI already asked myself how that thing stands over those spiky legs. I seems that it moves on fours and now is standing just because it has the glass to support. If that's the case maybe it will get immobilized, turtle-style, if it falls on its back. If only it didn't have so many friends...
BTW Lalli's concept of "not big, not many" needs clarification :)
(and it looks like I made it and became a safe-zone citizen! Yeah!)
Post by: Suominoita on March 22, 2020, 07:43:02 AM
I
BTW Lalli's concept of "not big, not many" needs clarification :)
Big means giant I guess and many a nest
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on March 26, 2020, 08:46:15 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on March 26, 2020, 11:09:22 AM
I was clearly wrong so I'd like to take this time to issue my most sincere and heartfelt apologies to all of you.
Ok, but... about what?
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on March 27, 2020, 04:25:00 PM
Ok, but... about what?
Calling it now -- Mikkel's plan is to make the troll fall over on its back
Post by: thegreyarea on March 27, 2020, 08:18:18 PM
I was clearly wrong so I'd like to take this time to issue my most sincere and heartfelt apologies to all of you.
I can't speak for the others, but for me you don't need to worry about apologizing. We are calling that things will happen all the time, and sometimes (many times) we miss the shot. Minna loves to surprise us :)
Post by: wavewright62 on March 28, 2020, 07:58:54 PM
Post by: Róisín on March 28, 2020, 08:07:50 PM
Post by: Mebediel on March 29, 2020, 01:40:34 PM
Post by: thorny on April 02, 2020, 10:18:24 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on April 03, 2020, 01:09:47 AM
Are those probably-not-exactly-bears walking into the dawn light?
I reckon one of them is Beast, but the other two? Fascinating to speculate whether they are hale or beast, and why they have to come to accompany our pierced karhu. Also, certainly sunset, as per the laundry, bathing, and subsequent zZz.
Post by: Mebediel on April 03, 2020, 01:03:02 PM
Post by: thorny on April 03, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
Also, certainly sunset, as per the laundry, bathing, and subsequent zZz.
That makes sense; I don't know why I took it for dawn -- except maybe in the hope that tent sleepers would wake up before the bears get there, if the bears are headed toward them. Seems likely to me they're headed either for Onni or the group following Onni.
Not sure whether the idea of the bears not minding sunlight (which would be implied if they're walking into the dawn) or the idea of them heading straight for a tent full of sleeping occupant(s) is more unnerving. -- Onni can't set a watch schedule, there's just him. But shouldn't the following crew be posting a watch? Are they relying on the Cat Alarm? She's probably asleep too!
Post by: Mariiii on April 03, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
That makes sense; I don't know why I took it for dawn -- except maybe in the hope that tent sleepers would wake up before the bears get there, if the bears are headed toward them. Seems likely to me they're headed either for Onni or the group following Onni.
I think they're following Onni, because on page 254, we saw their paw print following Onni's track. So maybe in the next chapter, the crew will catch up with Onni when he will facing the bears ?
Post by: Jitter on April 03, 2020, 04:37:14 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on April 05, 2020, 04:42:49 AM
Minna confirmed in the stream that oh yes the bears are definitely beasts. But when asked whether Onni is following them or they following Onni, she wouldn’t say.
Because we are an easily excitable lot.
(http://i.imgur.com/XFAMNPj.png)
Post by: Mebediel on April 05, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on April 06, 2020, 01:30:14 AM
What?
Who else do we know from the Prologue who's that much of a sad sniffle-sack?
Post by: Róisín on April 06, 2020, 01:49:48 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on April 06, 2020, 03:06:15 AM
While I'm here, I'd like to point out that Saku was Ensi's father, so chances are that he was a either a "carrier" of the allele that make people immune when they have two copies, or outright immune (the latter option is the one I find the most hilarious). On the other hand, I do have that headcanon according to which "carriers" are the ones who turn into trolls and the full-on non-immunes are the ones who die.
Also, totally a Kalma myself. I need to blow my nose if I tear up even just a little (and I'm Onni-grade trigger happy in that domain) or if I leave/enter a heated building if it's less than ~13°C (55°F) outside.
Post by: thorny on April 06, 2020, 10:39:20 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on April 06, 2020, 07:08:28 PM
Anybody else wonder whether portions of that info page are a reaction to current reasons to object to people sneezing/dripping in public?
XD I think Minna came up with the creatures ages ago, as she writes her story well ahead of drawing it, BUT I agree that her droll commentary is likely a reaction!
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 07, 2020, 12:33:43 AM
I have a headcanon that Mikkel penned his memoirs after these expeditions, but skewed somewhat to cast himself in a more favourable light and liberally laced with 'true stories,' while ignoring the role of magework. This memoir became the prevailing reference document for histories of the events.Spoiler: shameless self promotion irrelevant to the thread • show
Jumping back a bit (I'm just catching up with this thread) this was a major influence on the Museum Guide I put together for the advent calendar - particularly the idea that the Danish view of the expedition might not quite match up with the reality ;D
Post by: wavewright62 on April 27, 2020, 10:02:33 PM
Have we ever considered whether horseflies and such are a vector for the Rash? Minna confirmed that mosquitoes are not, but I'm thinking about horseflies gouging at your skin. Their saliva may not be able to transmit the Rash, but what about them infesting the herd of beast cows, then plaguing (literally) Reynir's poor neck with their icky feet trampling all over the spot they've just gouged?
Post by: Mebediel on April 27, 2020, 10:44:49 PM
Have we ever considered whether horseflies and such are a vector for the Rash? Minna confirmed that mosquitoes are not, but I'm thinking about horseflies gouging at your skin. Their saliva may not be able to transmit the Rash, but what about them infesting the herd of beast cows, then plaguing (literally) Reynir's poor neck with their icky feet trampling all over the spot they've just gouged?That's an unpleasant possibility. I guess if they haven't bitten any of the beast cows (since trolls = toxic, and consuming trolls seems to = death), then their feet seem like a pretty likely vector...although if Reynir's skin is unbroken, then would they be able to infect him? Also, should he be washing his neck, then? Hygiene doesn't seem like an extremely possible thing at the moment.
Post by: Vulpes on April 28, 2020, 08:04:48 PM
[...]
Have we ever considered whether horseflies and such are a vector for the Rash? Minna confirmed that mosquitoes are not, but I'm thinking about horseflies gouging at your skin. Their saliva may not be able to transmit the Rash, but what about them infesting the herd of beast cows, then plaguing (literally) Reynir's poor neck with their icky feet trampling all over the spot they've just gouged?
Eugh, that is an unsettling possibility. I think Meb makes a good point, the flies probably wouldn't want to bite anything trollified. And if they're not biting them, I imagine they wouldn't be crawling around on them, either.
Is the troll itself infective? That is, if a fly were to walk on a troll and then on a non-immune with a deep enough cut, could they actually transmit the disease? Or is it only from internal fluids of whatever sort, in which case unless the troll is... uh... leaking, it's unlikely a visiting fly would pick anything up?
I'm voting for flies avoiding trolls... I was going to write "like the plague" but that's a bit redundant, isn't it? :D
Post by: wavewright62 on April 29, 2020, 02:12:52 AM
Spoiler: show
Post by: thegreyarea on April 29, 2020, 07:26:54 AM
Post by: Róisín on April 29, 2020, 08:36:46 AM
Post by: JoB on April 29, 2020, 12:57:59 PM
(and the ones in Chthulhund's eyes were a kind of rash specific worm that lives just in rash beasts)[decides that "The Book of JoB" shall actually be about the lifeforms that have evolved into the ecological niche of Rash-infested mammal bodies - remember, those are taken out of the hands of the usual parasites and detritivores - and their special adaptations therefor]
[orders half a dozen of the really paranoid hazmat suits to do the research with]
Post by: thegreyarea on April 29, 2020, 07:14:52 PM
[decides that "The Book of JoB" shall actually be about the lifeforms that have evolved into the ecological niche of Rash-infested mammal bodies - remember, those are taken out of the hands of the usual parasites and detritivores - and their special adaptations therefor]That's a nice... humm, maybe not the best word to describe it. Let's say fascinating theme, but how the Known World would live in Y95 without the technological aspects that made "the book" so famous? Maybe we should change the title to "JoB's Encyclopedia" and the other eleven volumes would be in the other bookshelf* :)
[orders half a dozen of the really paranoid hazmat suits to do the research with]
Since Rash creatures have a peculiar talent to dig things (like a train metallic roof), maybe it's better to play extra safe and order one of those robots used to manipulate explosives at distance...
* please note that no irony was used in this post.
Post by: Vulpes on April 29, 2020, 08:11:41 PM
Post by: thorny on May 04, 2020, 10:48:15 AM
Post by: Jitter on May 05, 2020, 02:18:41 PM
On the opening page my first impression was that Lalli has shot Reynir! O_O It’s not (Minna mentions Reynir being “sad for some reason”) but still it looks like that to me.
But almost at the end on a page of pose practice there is a sweet sketch of Mikkel and Sigrun sitting back to back. Mikkel is reading a book and Sigrun is leaning on him and looking like she’s simply enjoying being close to Mikkel <3 :sigrun: <3 :mikkel: <3
Post by: thegreyarea on May 05, 2020, 02:47:53 PM
On the opening page my first impression was that Lalli has shot Reynir! O_O It’s not (Minna mentions Reynir being “sad for some reason”) but still it looks like that to me.
But almost at the end on a page of pose practice there is a sweet sketch of Mikkel and Sigrun sitting back to back. Mikkel is reading a book and Sigrun is leaning on him and looking like she’s simply enjoying being close to Mikkel <3 :sigrun: <3 :mikkel: <3
Well, that link to the video is in the latest page... :) I checked and my first impression was the same! "Oh no! Lalli shot Reynir!" but it seems that it (thank gods) never crossed Minna's mind! The whole book is fantastic, and Mikkel+Sigrun work great (even they already realized that!). There's also a very menacing bear, an even more menacing big eye and... lot's of food!!!
Post by: Vulpes on May 05, 2020, 07:27:22 PM
...
On the opening page my first impression was that Lalli has shot Reynir! O_O It’s not (Minna mentions Reynir being “sad for some reason”) but still it looks like that to me.
...
... I checked and my first impression was the same! "Oh no! Lalli shot Reynir!" but it seems that it (thank gods) never crossed Minna's mind! ...
Oh good, it's not just me! :'D
The bear is fabulous... lots of lovely things. And the covers are really elegant.
Post by: Alkia on May 05, 2020, 09:34:20 PM
But almost at the end on a page of pose practice there is a sweet sketch of Mikkel and Sigrun sitting back to back. Mikkel is reading a book and Sigrun is leaning on him and looking like she’s simply enjoying being close to Mikkel <3 :sigrun: <3 :mikkel: <3
[/quote]
ooh yes, I loved that one as well!!! Minna's youtube videos are always so calming and, simultaneously, inspiring.
Also, yess, Vulpes, the bear was awesome!! I liked the final page of the sketchbook too, with all the flowers and whatnot.
Should there be a new thread made discussing Minna's youtube videos? does that exist already? Since it is a relatively new thing and they are multiplying so rapidly (and are such lovely topics of oohing and aahing)
Post by: Jitter on May 06, 2020, 01:31:19 AM
Post by: Vulpes on May 06, 2020, 08:07:11 AM
It could be good to have a thread, could also link the videos there.
I second (or third or whatever) this - not only for oohing and aahing but perhaps some of the folks with artistic skills might also have comments on technique or media.
Post by: thorny on May 21, 2020, 09:38:09 PM
-- yes, that'll freak a canine out --
(I once seriously upset my parents' new dog by walking into the house wearing a backpack. She didn't know what I was, and she didn't like it.)
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on May 21, 2020, 09:45:28 PM
Post by: LilG on May 27, 2020, 12:33:17 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows if the Dusklings from the last chapters of the first adventure were supposed to be trollified children/babies (if Minna has stated this)?
Because, there seems to be a lot of evidence pointing towards that: the fact that they can speak and the way they do it, their ability to recognize a weapon (“GuN!”), their stature (tiny) and Minna calling them trolls.
I think it’s quite depressing if they’re truly rash children, more so if they’re babies (from a hospital’s maternity wing or something like that), considering that the way Minna described their painful transformation was them huddling alone (as in probably no adults around them ‘cuz they were dead or a troll), perhaps abandoned, in a basement with a small window to stimulate their “shell” growth (mentioned here under “trolls” section (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=85.msg158778;topicseen#msg158778)).
I haven’t really given the Notoros much thought up until today, because I always thought of them as beasts, not trolls (perhaps rash bunnies or hedgehogs, as per Minna’s design). But, after looking again through the “Key posts” some days ago and rereading those last chapters (I somehow always remembered all the Notoro’s speech bubbles as being black, not just the “manipulative” ones, hence me thinking they were beasts) the evidence just started started piling up and I couldn’t really think of them like cute hedgehog abominations anymore. I suppose the silver lining to this would be that they don’t really seem to care (they don’t beg for mercy or scream, just “FoOd?”). Maybe the rash has a different effect on children’s minds, or maybe they’re just so broken mentally that they just don’t care anymore, I dunno...
Post by: LilG on May 27, 2020, 12:39:42 PM
Post by: JoB on May 27, 2020, 03:41:48 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows if the Dusklings from the last chapters of the first adventure were supposed to be trollified children/babies (if Minna has stated this)?They are trolls, thus by definition former humans, as evidenced by their possession of speech. Even more striking, because it's so highly unusual even for trolls, was their capability to have a sorta meaningful dialogue with Emil - normally, a troll noticing a human nearby will come screaming and tearing at him, a stance that beasts can reproduce.
Because, there seems to be a lot of evidence pointing towards that: the fact that they can speak and the way they do it, their ability to recognize a weapon (“GuN!”), their stature (tiny) and Minna calling them trolls.
I'm not aware of any Word of God confirming that the pre-Rashification humans resulting in the Notoros had any special trait to earmark them for that, much less being any specific variant of underage. Though a fair number of Minnions theorize along the latter lines.
Post by: wavewright62 on May 27, 2020, 11:39:53 PM
Minna has verified that similar conditions may give rise to a cluster of trolls.
We've seen with the Covid-19 pandemic that epidemiologists have been sequencing the various strains of the virus in order to establish a timeline for mutations and therefore trace the path of spread of specific strains of the virus. Here in NZ that's being used to tie cases to clusters.
It's always bothered me to have clusters of similar trolls (like notoros or bladderbarbies) if only 0.5% of the infected population trollifies, but perhaps this technique gives science to it - it's possible that specific strains of Rash have mutated to trollify a greater percentage of its victims than the overall average.
Post by: lumilaulu on May 28, 2020, 08:22:35 AM
Post by: thorny on May 28, 2020, 10:43:10 AM
We don't know much about the science of trollification.
I suspect there's a really good reason for that.
It's story-magic, not science; and I don't think Minna has actually tried to work out anything remotely resembling a coherent quasi-scientific basis for it. I think she writes what she wants to put in the story, and then sometimes works out a partial explanation to fit, but mostly just handwaves it.
Post by: thegreyarea on May 28, 2020, 11:21:34 AM
I echo what JoB said. Every troll is sad, and the haunting cries of loss and loneliness coming over the airwaves distress me too. Are the Notoros children? Maybe, but the same hand-waving fantasy physics that gives rise to grossly elongated bodies can give rise to shrunken ones, or shapeless blobs, just as easily.
Minna has verified that similar conditions may give rise to a cluster of trolls.
We've seen with the Covid-19 pandemic that epidemiologists have been sequencing the various strains of the virus in order to establish a timeline for mutations and therefore trace the path of spread of specific strains of the virus. Here in NZ that's being used to tie cases to clusters.
It's always bothered me to have clusters of similar trolls (like notoros or bladderbarbies) if only 0.5% of the infected population trollifies, but perhaps this technique gives science to it - it's possible that specific strains of Rash have mutated to trollify a greater percentage of its victims than the overall average.
My headcanon (with nothing to support it) is that when a group of infected people develop the Rash simultaneously and are kept (for some reason) at close distance of each other, there's a higher chance of a magical "resonance" or "tuning". This connection between infected persons, or animals, reduces mortality and makes their mutations "align", creating those groups that we saw.
Post by: lumilaulu on May 28, 2020, 12:20:49 PM
I suspect there's a really good reason for that.Oh, of course. I just like to think of possible reasons why things would be as they are.
It's story-magic, not science; and I don't think Minna has actually tried to work out anything remotely resembling a coherent quasi-scientific basis for it. I think she writes what she wants to put in the story, and then sometimes works out a partial explanation to fit, but mostly just handwaves it.
My headcanon (with nothing to support it) is that when a group of infected people develop the Rash simultaneously and are kept (for some reason) at close distance of each other, there's a higher chance of a magical "resonance" or "tuning". This connection between infected persons, or animals, reduces mortality and makes their mutations "align", creating those groups that we saw.I like this!
Post by: Grade E cat on May 29, 2020, 03:19:09 AM
EDIT: Realized there's a newer Pokémon who does that too, and this a series I remember Minna being a fan of.
Post by: thorny on June 02, 2020, 10:29:44 AM
Or did something off-panel grab Lalli?!
Post by: lumilaulu on June 02, 2020, 10:48:42 AM
Post by: Jitter on June 02, 2020, 12:37:15 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 04, 2020, 12:38:13 AM
Post by: Jitter on June 04, 2020, 03:20:45 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on June 04, 2020, 03:23:46 AM
Post by: Mirasol on June 04, 2020, 07:11:33 AM
I suppose this is the only video-record of beastification… or something...
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 04, 2020, 07:46:36 AM
I suppose this is the only video-record of beastification… or something...
Nope! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQO-aOdJLiw) :))
Post by: thegreyarea on June 04, 2020, 10:19:46 AM
In honour of our favourite aquatic bovines making a re-appearance, here are some perfectly normal cows...
So everything starts looking perfectly normal until... Let's see if that will happen in the comic too :D
(this is great Wrym! Thanks!)
Post by: Mirasol on June 04, 2020, 11:12:36 AM
Nope! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQO-aOdJLiw) :))
:'D This is even worse… parts of it really remind me of that poodle-beast from a few days ago...
And now you made me look through that persons entire YouTube-channel, congrats.
Post by: Jitter on June 04, 2020, 01:01:20 PM
Post by: Mebediel on June 04, 2020, 01:51:09 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 04, 2020, 11:31:38 PM
Cyriak's YouTube channel is full of those funky animations :D There's one (or two?) with hands, too
He is both a wonder and a terror!
Post by: LilG on June 05, 2020, 09:13:33 AM
Post by: LilG on June 05, 2020, 10:10:36 AM
Post by: Jitter on June 05, 2020, 01:37:44 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on June 06, 2020, 12:32:14 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on June 06, 2020, 03:29:19 AM
Post by: JoB on June 06, 2020, 06:17:21 AM
Spoiler: body horror, essentially • show
(Edit to spoiler)
Post by: Jitter on June 06, 2020, 06:50:37 AM
Post by: Róisín on June 06, 2020, 06:53:28 AM
Post by: LilG on June 06, 2020, 09:52:56 AM
Since you are putting up warning after those previous videos, I'm most definitely not going to watch it! Thanks LilG!
It’s not really “bizarre-graphic” as much as it is “Happy Tree Friends”-ish (you won’t see photoshopped cats turning themselves inside out). It isn’t trippy at all, just a whole bunch of cute, animated kitty characters dying in very horrific ways at the hands of nine-lived (or... eight, I guess) zombie cats (and also at their own hands later in the vid). If you can stomach that, you’ll probably not have any trippy nightmares at night, but you might not look the same way at cats after watching it (and your childhood will most definitely be ruined :) ).
It’s probably the most different video out of his whole catalogue of vids, so if the trippiness factor is what bothers you, I can assure you that no drugs were used in the making of that video... probably......... maaaaaybe just a lil’ bit of crystal meth and a whole bunch of gory zombie movies.
Post by: thorny on June 06, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
[Meow Mix][ . . . ] on the other hand is mostly delightful, and a fitting tribute to the blessed felines.
I started to watch that, and immediately had to shut it back off due to appearance of agitated cat looking for the interloper.
Maybe at some point when there's no cats near the computer (if such a thing ever happens while I'm at the computer --)
Post by: JoB on June 06, 2020, 02:09:58 PM
JoB, that is..........extremely strange! What is it?In a nutshell, yet another one of Cyriak's videos that just happens to also feature cows; chanced on it looking through his YouTube channel.
I’m seriously thinking you should put a well visible warning on each of these. Please!Done. (Interesting find that [youtube] inside of [spoiler] doesn't work anymore.)
I started to watch that, and immediately had to shut it back off due to appearance of agitated cat looking for the interloper.... ear-/headphones ... ? (It's not like the audio's absolutely indispensable, either, IMHO.)
Maybe at some point when there's no cats near the computer (if such a thing ever happens while I'm at the computer --)
Post by: Jitter on June 06, 2020, 06:27:23 PM
Post by: thorny on June 06, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
... ear-/headphones ... ? (It's not like the audio's absolutely indispensable, either, IMHO.)
Believe it or not, I don't have any earbuds/headphones. Probably ought to get some sometime.
Tried it without the audio. Kind of fun; though also sort of disturbing in a couple of spots, IMO.
Spoiler: show
Post by: wavewright62 on June 07, 2020, 02:46:53 AM
Post by: JoB on June 07, 2020, 03:31:40 AM
Believe it or not, I don't have any earbuds/headphones. Probably ought to get some sometime.(Heh, I can believe that, easy-peasy. If corona hadn't happened and people hadn't complained about the echo when I was videoconferencing with just the builtin speakers and microphone of the laptop (so they handed me a proper headset to use), I would have to make do with some old leftovers as well.)
Post by: thorny on June 09, 2020, 10:14:38 AM
Post by: Mebediel on June 09, 2020, 12:29:02 PM
Hope Lalli's not going to go back for it!I'm kinda wondering if it'll show up in his dream place, since he is dreaming about it now, apparently.
Post by: LilG on June 09, 2020, 01:05:21 PM
I'm kinda wondering if it'll show up in his dream place, since he is dreaming about it now, apparently.
What if someone shows up with the cube in the dream space?
What if someone (who is
Post by: JoB on June 09, 2020, 01:18:33 PM
What if someone shows up with the cube in the dream space?What if ... the cube isn't immune and, once infected, starts to follow
Post by: thegreyarea on June 09, 2020, 01:49:02 PM
What if ... the cube isn't immune and, once infected, starts to followhis masterLalli on its own? >:D
Something like this? :D
Spoiler: show
Post by: muidole on June 09, 2020, 02:44:27 PM
Something like this? :DSpoiler: show
Then the question would be: How big would the cube grow to be?? Would it be following Lalli around at the size of an action figure or would it be human sized? Or would it be towering over everyone like a giant? O_O (Keeping them out of harms way perhaps?)
Post by: Mebediel on June 10, 2020, 09:21:28 PM
Then the question would be: How big would the cube grow to be?? Would it be following Lalli around at the size of an action figure or would it be human sized? Or would it be towering over everyone like a giant? O_O (Keeping them out of harms way perhaps?)I for one welcome our cube overlords
Post by: thorny on June 10, 2020, 11:32:22 PM
Hope Lalli's not going to go back for it!
Oh, dear.
Post by: LilG on June 11, 2020, 04:31:55 AM
I dunno, it just feels a bit... ooc, like he should know better than to do that?
Granted, I think he’s about to realize next page what a stupid decision THAT was, but I still feel like he shouldn't have done that in the first place...
Post by: LilG on June 12, 2020, 05:03:57 AM
Either that or it’s staring at Lalli, as Lalli is staring back at it, not bothering to hide, cuz’ it’s so damn CHONKY!
Post by: Mebediel on June 14, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
Surma didn’t solve the cube, so it isn’t highly intelligent... maybe, though it might just have not bothered with the cube (or couldn’t solve it due to massive claws) and it is instead watching our stick-y boi from the shadows while he’s distracted with his lil’ toy, which is still quite intelligent if you ask me.What if Surma didn't solve the cube because Surma IS the cube *dramatic music*
Either that or it’s staring at Lalli, as Lalli is staring back at it, not bothering to hide, cuz’ it’s so damn CHONKY!
Post by: wavewright62 on June 14, 2020, 10:07:14 PM
What if Surma didn't solve the cube because Surma IS the cube *dramatic music*
Ooorrr, *change key* Surma is Ernő Rubik himself dun dun dunnnn - enraged over the flagrant tossing aside of an unsolved one of his puzzles.
Post by: thorny on June 18, 2020, 10:53:34 PM
-- looks like a good thing he went back for the cube, though. A nice leisurely breakfast followed by a slow walk might have been a really bad idea.
Post by: LilG on June 24, 2020, 07:53:13 AM
I saw someone in a relatively recent (as in around one year old) 4chan /co/ thread say that Minna confirmed this at some point.
Now, I know 4chan isn’t the most reliable place for “canon” or “word of god” information (far from it actually, in fact it’s mostly just s***posting), but I was wondering if this is actually something stated by her and I would like to hear from the more reliable source (aka the forum) about this. If anybody knows that she did in fact say this, could you also provide a link to the source (and a time stamp if it’s a stream)?
Post by: LilG on June 24, 2020, 07:55:03 AM
Post by: Róisín on June 24, 2020, 09:34:57 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on June 24, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Did Minna ever state that there would be another major character death in adv 2 or 3 in one of her streams, comments, etc.?I never heard any comment about that, at least in the comments section or in the Forum, but there may be somewhere, and I seldom watch the streams. I think, however, that something so big would have been mentioned by now.
I saw someone in a relatively recent (as in around one year old) 4chan /co/ thread say that Minna confirmed this at some point.
...
Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if that happened, particularly with Onni, in the context of a sacrifice to save Lalli (or someone else, or them all). It would make sense for the character (psychologically speaking), fit what Tuuri said about them meeting again and add impact (and drama) to the closing of this story arc.
In fact it makes so much sense to me that I (speaking as someone that writes stories) would put his chances of survival in the 50%, while all the others are well above 90%.
But of course I like him and would like him to survive (I even put him in my "Home" picture in the previous Break).
I also never noticed the censorship machine. As someone that loathes this kind of thing I'd propose to the administrators to turn it off, if possible.
Post by: Jitter on June 24, 2020, 12:30:56 PM
Back at the time of Tuuri’s death she wrote how she’d noticed several people having misunderstood or misremember something she’d said before that as a promise to not have any major characters die, but she couldn’t comment on that anymore as the situation was ongoing.
There is often talk of characters dying on the stream, mostly in the chat. Maybe someone has misunderstood something. In any case, as grey says, it would definitely be here already if she had even hinted something like that.
I’m going to be upset if Onni or anybody dies! I mean, of course I will, but I think I’ll probably be a bit angry as well for a while. But, we know it’s a possibility. Hopefully a remote one, but still.
As for the censorship machine, I don’t think it’s going to change. The American raters are completely paranoid over foul language in games and movies, and since this is to follow P13 rules, we can’t have swearing. I personally find it ridiculous, but this is not built just for me, so...
Spoiler: show
Post by: Jitter on June 24, 2020, 12:31:51 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on June 24, 2020, 01:16:37 PM
It’s not multilingual, so you can swear in your own language if it’s not English :)
Ha ha! ;D
Well, Google translate says that the first word means "devil", the second "faeces" and the third must be so terrible that it didn't manage to translate at all... At least we know that we can swear in Finnish! :)
And I also agree that it's ridiculous! As if children didn't learn that, and much worse, with their colleagues, on day-by-day situations or, in some cases, at home...
Post by: Jitter on June 24, 2020, 01:45:50 PM
The third word is the second word in Swedish :)
Post by: wavewright62 on June 24, 2020, 05:04:48 PM
As for the censor, it predates my time as a mod, but I do believe it's mostly to keep the PG-13 rating and with the youngest users of the Forum in mind. I don't know offhand what all words are censored, but I personally think it's a bit cute in substituting 'duck' for the cuss word that rhymes with it.
Post by: JoB on June 24, 2020, 05:17:54 PM
It’s not multilingual, so you can swear in your own language if it’s not English :)
Spoiler: show
Post by: LilG on June 26, 2020, 10:43:48 AM
I also initially thought that it would have been a subject of discussion at some point in the fandom, but I thought that it had happened before I joined the fandom and also the forum and the discussion had died down after some time. I’m quite relieved to know that no such thing ever happened, because it would have gone very much against Minna’s “no major spoilers” policy to outright say that and torture us with the thought that we’re gonna be losing someone once again.
Róisín, Now you’ve made me curious, would you mind sharing the plant’s name that the forum’s algorithm found so repulsive?
Also, JoB... friend... pal... buddy... chum chum... darling (n-no homo)...
Spoiler: show
Post by: Róisín on June 26, 2020, 11:21:02 AM
Post by: LilG on June 26, 2020, 11:49:24 AM
Even still, the algorithm needs to learn (aka be updated) to understand the words’ context more.
Post by: Vulpes on June 26, 2020, 07:18:08 PM
P...y tails (think of kitten tails). Right silly!
Heh... probably the same or a similar plant with toes instead of tails was responsible for an entire report going missing - government email nanny kept deleting the email and attachment with no trace, so the folks waiting for it kept asking where the report was, someone would send it, they'd wait for a couple weeks, not get it, repeat... I forget how they figured out the problem.
Post by: Róisín on June 27, 2020, 12:06:55 AM
Post by: JoB on June 27, 2020, 12:12:03 PM
Also, JoB... friend... pal... buddy... chum chum... darling (n-no homo)...Sure, just hit "reply" to that post and keep your eyes peeled! >:DSpoiler: show
Heh... probably the same or a similar plant with toes instead of tails was responsible for an entire report going missing - government email nanny kept deleting the email and attachment with no trace, so the folks waiting for it kept asking where the report was, someone would send it, they'd wait for a couple weeks, not get it, repeat... I forget how they figured out the problem.I remember the troubles of a luxembourgish bank with their e-mail scanner. One day, the (luxembourgish) admin of the thing turned around to me (German) and asked whether that e-mail he was working on might keep getting blocked because of the customer's name.
Spoiler: It was! • show
Then came the day when an update brought an (unannounced) new feature, namely, that the software would suddenly match+block swear words that were only part of longer words.
Spoiler: show
Post by: LilG on June 27, 2020, 01:42:45 PM
Thank you for you for your divine gift of endless cussing, master
May I share this fine power with the rest of the Jedi cult?
Post by: Vulpes on June 27, 2020, 03:16:10 PM
JoB, those are hilarious examples. Again, it leaves me scratching my head, wondering at the things that apparently can be seen as a "good" idea by someone, somewhere.
Post by: JoB on June 28, 2020, 04:44:24 AM
JoB, Ngl I was really confused for a bit and was about o give up, but then I realized you were talking about “quoting” your post.Ooooooooooops, sorry. I must've slipped to Thunderbird (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Thunderbird_60_Windows.png)-ish for a moment there ...
May I share this fine power with the rest of the Jedi cult?I don't have the slightest idea what the Jedi equivalent of an exorcism looks like, but if you're dead set to finding out ...
Again, it leaves me scratching my head, wondering at the things that apparently can be seen as a "good" idea by someone, somewhere.I don't think that those specific cases ever made it to the level of a thought with the developers until the bug reports started to flow back in, much less saw an evaluation that could've led to anything like "yup, wanna" ...
(Nonetheless, I assume that running the new version on some text corpus or even e-mail archives and reviewing the matches returned could have revealed such possibilities beforehand. It'd take time, though ...)
[sudden mental picture of what would happen if a net-nanny developer dpt. were to use its product themselves]
"As a native speaker of Mumbo, I would suggest to unlist 'w***a' and keep only the first person singular futur of it, 'w***ayi', blocked."
Post by: thorny on July 06, 2020, 12:40:04 AM
And the thought is this: yes, that's Grandma (something about the hands brings on this thought); and Grandma is Surma. The kade (who's probably the non-Surma figure we saw killing birds) managed to turn her into a troll, despite immunity. She was a powerful mage, and a very strong woman; she made a very strong and very nasty troll.
But she was a powerful mage, and a very strong woman; so there's still some Ensi in there. She ran off to, and stayed in, the wilderness, so that she wouldn't kill humans, at least. And she's not going to kill Lalli or Onni, either -- she may actually be hunting the trolls which threaten them.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 06, 2020, 02:35:05 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on July 06, 2020, 04:36:28 AM
On one hand, this is too convoluted by my own abritrary standards. On the other, I'm too much of a forgiving optimist at heart to not be onboard with the "monster assumed to be a big danger was protecting the protagonists all along" twist. And come to think of it, that could work even if it's not Ensi. Maybe Surma isn't attracted by gunshots because its instincts are less "FoOd", and more "SoMeOnE nEeDs HeLp". But the help takes a form that gives people the wrong idea and makes them assume they'll be next if they don't scatter away while it's taking care of the trolls that were attacking them.Interesting theory. I don't think, however, that it's going this way. I believe that all points (particularly the info pages about Kades) to Ensi being ensnared by the Kade and somehow part of its internal "community". And I also believe (but that's the writer in me) that the upcoming epic boss fight with the Kade will be somehow played in the dreamworld... Inside the Kade's dreamworld, to be more precise. :)
Anyway, if "monster assumed to be a big danger was protecting the protagonists all along" theory was Minna's chosen one then we could expect Surma unexpectedly dropping in the fight to protect them from the Kade (maybe buying them some precious time?). it would be a nice twist.
Post by: wavewright62 on July 06, 2020, 05:32:37 AM
Kade!Ensi: You said that about the last seven. Now stop flirting. They're mine!
S: Mine!
E: Mine!
Gulls suddenly converging: MINE! MINE!
E: NOW look what you've done! YOUR turn to deal with their master!
S: perkele
Post by: Grade E cat on July 06, 2020, 07:06:29 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on July 06, 2020, 09:21:03 AM
Just thought of the fact that neither Ensi nor Anne-Mari's graves were shown in the graveyard (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=108), and that we have only gotten an in-story explanation for the absence of Ensi's. And that Anne-Mari was definitely not immune. ;)Oh, so we could have a scene with Onni trapped between Surma and a chasm, where "she" invites him to join the dark side and adds "Onni, I'm your mother" ?
I'm sure the
Post by: Vulpes on July 06, 2020, 08:04:10 PM
Just thought of the fact that neither Ensi nor Anne-Mari's graves were shown in the graveyard (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=108), and that we have only gotten an in-story explanation for the absence of Ensi's. And that Anne-Mari was definitely not immune. ;)
Wasn't that discussed somewhere (forum or comments), and somebody pointed out that maybe her stone simply wasn't shown? Not to say that's not a suitably spooky idea, just that the stone not being visible may have been a matter of page composition, not foreshadowing. But what a plot twist that would be...
Post by: wavewright62 on July 06, 2020, 10:41:24 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on July 07, 2020, 02:19:05 AM
Post by: Vulpes on July 07, 2020, 07:41:34 PM
I currently subscribe to "It" being what Onni calls the Kade, while Surma would be a different entity, possibly mutated from Anne-Mari.
Oooh, now I get what you're saying. Interesting! It never occurred to me to connect Surma with the Hotakainens, I figured it was yet another scary monster, that's all. But whatever it's origins, I do wonder why it's so darn touchy. The nature of each troll seems to be connected to its former life. Who was this scary creature?
Post by: thegreyarea on July 08, 2020, 05:54:21 AM
Oooh, now I get what you're saying. Interesting! It never occurred to me to connect Surma with the Hotakainens, I figured it was yet another scary monster, that's all. But whatever it's origins, I do wonder why it's so darn touchy. The nature of each troll seems to be connected to its former life. Who was this scary creature?A librarian? :)
(They usually get very touchy with noises...)
If we find out that its lair is on the former Joensuu library we will have an answer.
Post by: Vulpes on July 08, 2020, 06:09:23 PM
A librarian? :)
(They usually get very touchy with noises...)
If we find out that its lair is on the former Joensuu library we will have an answer.
Haha, brilliant suggestion! :'D
Post by: Jitter on July 09, 2020, 05:21:15 AM
On the other hand, as Ensi was immune, she shouldn't have physically trollified like that, especially if not integrated into the Kade. Surma notwithstanding, maybe there still is an inkling of hope something of Ensi survives within the Kade?
Post by: thegreyarea on July 09, 2020, 06:17:55 AM
...
On the other hand, as Ensi was immune, she shouldn't have physically trollified like that, especially if not integrated into the Kade. Surma notwithstanding, maybe there still is an inkling of hope something of Ensi survives within the Kade?
Agreed. While what drives Onni is probably the desire to kill the thing that destroyed his previous life (even if he gets killed in the process), I'm quite sure that there will be a part of Ensi inside the Kade (considering that part about exorcism in the info page), and that bit of Ensi will play a central role in the big boss fight closer to the end of this story.
Post by: JoB on July 09, 2020, 07:42:37 AM
If we find out that its lair is on the former Joensuu library we will have an answer.Heh. I remember waiting for Minna to reference this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Diamond_(library)) way back when ... ^-^
Post by: Vulpes on July 09, 2020, 10:40:54 AM
Heh. I remember waiting for Minna to reference this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Diamond_(library)) way back when ... ^-^
Hehe, that would be somewhat meta: "Two museums are based in the Black Diamond, the National Museum of Photography and a small museum dedicated to cartoon art." (Emphasis mine)
Post by: MollyVampiric on July 09, 2020, 11:33:32 PM
Agreed. While what drives Onni is probably the desire to kill the thing that destroyed his previous life (even if he gets killed in the process), I'm quite sure that there will be a part of Ensi inside the Kade (considering that part about exorcism in the info page), and that bit of Ensi will play a central role in the big boss fight closer to the end of this story.Gonna jump in here cause I'm glad someone mentioned the info page. Your theory opened my eyes up to other possibilities, but I was kinda predicting something else. Particularly that Onni or Lalli might look at the Kade and the other would have to help the infected one. It would be super tense and would totally enforce their brotherly(-ish) bond. They realize just how important they are to each other, y'know?
Maybe I just watch too many sappy movies, idk
Post by: thegreyarea on July 10, 2020, 04:38:31 AM
Gonna jump in here cause I'm glad someone mentioned the info page. Your theory opened my eyes up to other possibilities, but I was kinda predicting something else. Particularly that Onni or Lalli might look at the Kade and the other would have to help the infected one. It would be super tense and would totally enforce their brotherly(-ish) bond. They realize just how important they are to each other, y'know?Yes, the info about the Kade, in this story context, looks like a "Chekhov Info"... ;)
Maybe I just watch too many sappy movies, idk
There are several possibilities, and Minna will probably surprise us with something yet different from the ones we mentioned ( :D ), but that part where one (or two) of our mages get ensnared by the Kade, and have to be rescued by the remaining one(s) seems quite likely to happen, IMHO.
Post by: Jitter on July 10, 2020, 05:02:13 AM
My favorite idea so far (assuming someone has to get ensnared) is that it’s Onni, and then Reynir uses his finding knack and finds him in the black storm that is the Kade. And when he says “do you remember me”, Onni does, partially because he’s heard the exact same thing from Reynir so many times.
Spoiler: show
Post by: MollyVampiric on July 10, 2020, 05:40:43 AM
I also think it’s more likely the exorcism will be needed for one of the team (team includes Onni, whether he wants it or not!). The page specifically says “recent” infection may be exorcised. Then again, if Ensi were able to hild on to part of herself, it could be a different thing.I hadn't even thought of that, but that is amazing
My favorite idea so far (assuming someone has to get ensnared) is that it’s Onni, and then Reynir uses his finding knack and finds him in the black storm that is the Kade. And when he says “do you remember me”, Onni does, partially because he’s heard the exact same thing from Reynir so many times.Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Post by: Róisín on July 10, 2020, 06:35:40 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on July 10, 2020, 06:56:53 AM
I hadn't even thought of that, but that is amazingNow we are all expecting you to write that! ;)Spoiler: show
Post by: thorny on July 10, 2020, 09:20:45 AM
My favorite idea so far (assuming someone has to get ensnared) is that it’s Onni, and then Reynir uses his finding knack and finds him in the black storm that is the Kade. And when he says “do you remember me”, Onni does, partially because he’s heard the exact same thing from Reynir so many times.
Ooh, I like that one.
Post by: Jitter on July 10, 2020, 11:58:46 AM
Post by: Mirasol on July 10, 2020, 12:58:37 PM
I hadn't even thought of that, but that is amazingI´d also read that.Spoiler: show
Post by: muidole on July 10, 2020, 04:09:30 PM
All this discussion about the Kade makes me wonder if It would be willing, or bother to possess someone other than the Hotakainens in order to get closer to either Lalli or Onni? Would It even be able to, considering that none of the other characters are Finnish mages? Because the info pages only mention the Kade absorbing the souls of mages, not people in general. (But imagine how tense it would be for the reader to see a repeat of Possessed!Ensi trying to get Lalli to look her in the eyes, but with a possessed Emil/Reynir/Sigrun/Mikkel instead, and Lalli actually falling for it!)
Or would It just ignore all the other characters if either of the Hotakainens were in the vicinity and just go straight for the two of them?
Also, the top comment of page 177 (https://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=177) mentions that the Kade was probably attacking the familiars of the sparrow sentinel mage (Kauko Katainen) at the beginning of Adventure 2. I wonder if at some point the cast makes their way southwest, only to encounter Kauko and see that his familiars seem to be acting strangely or missing entirely >:D
Post by: Jitter on July 10, 2020, 04:27:01 PM
The fact that Onni doesn’t know about anything common between Finnish and Icelandic magic doesn’t mean there isn’t anything at all. They surely do share the same dreamworld.
Post by: thegreyarea on July 10, 2020, 07:15:00 PM
I agree with you in that Mikkel, Sigrun and Emil probably are safe from the Kade, or from its gaze attack in any case. As for Reynir - Icelandic battle mages are rare, Kades are extremely rare, and Finnish noitas don’t seem to think highly of the Seiður and vice versa. So, the likelihood seems remote of there being any actual data about the potential vulnerability of an Icelandic mage to Kade influence.I agree with you (that's becoming a tradition) :)
The fact that Onni doesn’t know about anything common between Finnish and Icelandic magic doesn’t mean there isn’t anything at all. They surely do share the same dreamworld.
Now, while we wait, I'll entertain the idea that in the middle of the battle, a cowed Reynir will try to help (of course) in what he sees as an act of insane bravery (and probably sacrifice), just to find out that he's immune to all the Kade's spells. Thus, using his built-in "God mode", Reynir defeats the Kade and saves the day! \o/
Post by: muidole on July 10, 2020, 08:27:59 PM
I agree with you (that's becoming a tradition) :)
Now, while we wait, I'll entertain the idea that in the middle of the battle, a cowed Reynir will try to help (of course) in what he sees as an act of insane bravery (and probably sacrifice), just to find out that he's immune to all the Kade's spells. Thus, using his built-in "God mode", Reynir defeats the Kade and saves the day! \o/
Then he can finally call himself an immune person! Slap that on a transcript and he'll be in the advanced Icelandic mage courses in no time! (Just need to add the addendum that it's a very specific type of immunity in very rare situations, but really, who reads the fine print anyways? :'D)
He's even got the job experience to boot! "Defeating a Kade", the academy would be glad to have him!
Post by: Vulpes on July 10, 2020, 08:32:49 PM
Post by: muidole on July 10, 2020, 09:22:08 PM
I must go off and make a list of all the ideas, to see who comes closest when we finally find out!
That makes me wonder if it would be interesting to have a thread with a running bullet list of theories similar to the "Things Mikkel Madsen Is Not Allowed To Do" thread, where a list of theories is in the first post, possibly with the date it was thought of and who proposed it. Then people can drop and discuss random theories in the replies which would then be added to the master list of theories. Once a theory is confirmed or jossed it would be easy to go and compare what people were thinking at different points in the comic, based on the info at the time.
At the same time it sounds similar to this thread, but it would be a cleaner and more dedicated thread to archiving predictions and theories throughout the comic's runtime. But I dunno :P
Post by: Grade E cat on July 11, 2020, 03:03:10 AM
Post by: Vulpes on July 11, 2020, 08:10:20 PM
Or, we could just necro the heacanon thread (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=509.0).
It's not that ancient, it hardly qualifies as thread necromancy. Now if it were, say, five years old, that would be another story.
But... someone has to actually make a list. Given my attention span, that probably won't hap
ooooh, look at the butterfly....
Post by: ftmshepard on July 22, 2020, 11:13:51 PM
Is the thing killing everything their grandmother, or the big threat, or both?
The bears are so aesthetic (I know, old, but new person!)
Post by: thegreyarea on July 23, 2020, 04:52:53 AM
Just caught up! I'm very excited to see Tuuri again; it's interesting that she returned. I wonder what called her?Good to see you here! :) I also wonder if it was Onni initiative to call for her sister or if she surprised him at some point, offering to join his quest or trying (unsuccessfully) to convince him to quit, (as pointed by or Finnish fellows, in their tradition some places of memory, like the tombstones at the island, facilitate contact with the spirits, so maybe there?) or yet if that happened by someone else intervention (is some deity trying to help?).
Is the thing killing everything their grandmother, or the big threat, or both?
The bears are so aesthetic (I know, old, but new person!)
"The thing killing everything" is the one that killed the wolves and the cows? If so general consensus (IIRC) is that's Surma, that would be a big threat but apparently not connected with the Kade (that likes to kill birds) that may contain Ensi's spirit (or what's left of it).
Post by: Mirasol on July 23, 2020, 06:21:46 AM
Your post precicely sums up our discussions over the last weeks:
Is the thing killing everything their grandmother, or the big threat, or both?
Plus the "How did Tuuri get back into the living world?"-discussion Grey mentioned. Glad to hear you will now be theorizing with us. :))
Post by: ftmshepard on July 23, 2020, 12:39:27 PM
Ensi seems the type to, when twisted, take over a... evil mage soul collective? So i'm excited.
And Surma is... so cool. The cows and bears were also quite pretty.
Post by: wavewright62 on July 23, 2020, 04:56:24 PM
My favorite idea so far (assuming someone has to get ensnared) is that it’s Onni, and then Reynir uses his finding knack and finds him in the black storm that is the Kade. And when he says “do you remember me”, Onni does, partially because he’s heard the exact same thing from Reynir so many times.
This is a twist, and one that I can plausibly see happening from Minna. She really likes those whiplash moments of horror to humour and back again. I'm also reminded of the ominous boss fight that she solved with a quiet, "Are you tired?"
Spoiler: stream of consciousness • show
Post by: Jitter on July 23, 2020, 05:34:18 PM
Post by: muidole on July 23, 2020, 05:41:10 PM
Spoiler: stream of consciousness • show
Ooh, then Emil will get a new friend! :V
And perhaps the dream won’t be as repetitive anymore, with the Kade around. ::)
Plot Twist: SSSS becomes a slice of life sitcom-esque comic where Emil and the Kade get up to shenanigans within his dreams! :'D
Post by: Jitter on July 23, 2020, 05:59:34 PM
Post by: muidole on July 23, 2020, 06:22:41 PM
And what better place could there be to have your soul ejected to? I mean, you’ve got cake, food, a nanny to take care of you, fire in the background that never quite reaches the house - sounds like a nice little vacation destination!
Post by: JoB on July 24, 2020, 06:03:13 AM
That combination would result in all of the living Hotakainens having taken up residence inside of Emil’s head at one point or another.I'm pretty sure that the present non-living ones would be able to find some spiritual backdoor to join the family-plus-one reunion.
(And repeat the "oooh, big house, you grew up in an orphanage?" quip a couple times.)
Post by: Mirasol on July 24, 2020, 07:31:28 AM
That combination would result in all of the living Hotakainens having taken up residence inside of Emil’s head at one point or another.
And what better place could there be to have your soul ejected to? I mean, you’ve got cake, food, a nanny to take care of you, fire in the background that never quite reaches the house - sounds like a nice little vacation destination!
Onni (with a mouthful of cake): Lalli, I think I get now why you were in that guys head for that long. (takes a nother bite)
Lalli: Told you. Try the chocolate-cake.
Post by: Jitter on July 24, 2020, 01:45:13 PM
Post by: ftmshepard on July 24, 2020, 10:44:48 PM
Also, Onni, can you really stop the clowns.
Also I'm curious how Onni knows what a clown is. Do they have circuses in the known world? Is there some surviving russian carnival troop?
Post by: Jitter on July 25, 2020, 06:47:50 AM
Now that circus troop is a Fic Wanting to Happen! But also there may be surviving books (or remakes of them). I love the troop idea though! Somebody write it quick!
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on July 25, 2020, 06:58:22 AM
Now that circus troop is a Fic Wanting to Happen!It is (https://archiveofourown.org/works/8665393)?
Do they cry for joy of sparkles?Something something sparkle fairies (https://archiveofourown.org/works/9505088/chapters/24727857) something something.
Post by: Jitter on July 25, 2020, 07:15:37 AM
Post by: thorny on July 25, 2020, 08:22:18 AM
I'm curious how Onni knows what a clown is. Do they have circuses in the known world?
They might; or they might have individual clowns with no circus just doing parties and so on, as some of them do now. Or the word might easily have hung on even if there aren't any costumed clowns in existence. How many people who say somebody's nitpicking are thinking of actually picking nits when they use the word? (There's probably even better examples, as lice do still exist, but I can't seem to think of them right now.)
-- actually a society that probably doesn't have many of our forms of entertainment might be more likely to resurrect circuses; but in the other direction, travelling troupes seem unlikely as the travel itself is risky plus which they'd probably have to keep going into quarantine whenever they changed areas. Maybe small ones that mostly move around within a given safe zone?
Post by: JoB on July 25, 2020, 02:21:01 PM
(There's probably even better examples, as lice do still exist, but I can't seem to think of them right now.)(The standard idiom in German is "to believe that a Zitronenfalter (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Falter) folds lemons". I suppose that the animal's English name, "brimstone butterfly", could be made into a similarly nonsensical quip.)
Post by: Vulpes on July 28, 2020, 08:18:28 PM
Post by: Mirasol on July 29, 2020, 04:27:54 AM
But since Onni was going for "scare them away", and this isn´t really scary per se, that´s probably not what he did. (It also would be totally rude to play with the others´ feelings like that!) Another theory I read a lot is that he would try to immitate an attack by Surma, which then fails because he actually hasn´t seen what that looks like, while the others can tell it´s not Surma. I think that might be the most likely option.
But I don´t know. I´d also love to hear more theories. :)
Post by: Vulpes on July 29, 2020, 09:05:40 AM
Of course my own suggestion of an animated troll reminded me of this Alien parody... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ePMb7um9E (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ePMb7um9E) and darn it, I lack the artistic talent to realise the mental image I now have of the dancing troll. It would even fit with the crew's expressions!
Post by: wavewright62 on July 30, 2020, 04:38:26 PM
Yep, I'm a scary baaaad spirit subsisting on the souls of unwary travellers. I take pride in my abilities, and I'm the baddest of the bad around these here parts, which is why I've posted signs to ...uhhh... drive my nourishment away.
(http://i.imgur.com/7Zj8Y4r.jpg?1)(https://41.media.tumblr.com/432816a5ded3257e1f580eb1a148144f/tumblr_inline_nlmp25SDeJ1r2g2kx_500.png)
Spoiler: show
Post by: Mirasol on July 30, 2020, 06:21:26 PM
So that all went out of the window, Huh? Rest in pieces, theories, I guess.
Still, I can´t say that I´m disappointed.
Post by: Vulpes on July 30, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/ybfzaqU.jpg)
Haha, it sure does! I was soooo sure he couldn't possibly be silly enough to think a troll on a stick would be enough. Okay, actually he wasn't, but adding the messages scrawled in blood doesn't really improve the odds of success. Sigh. Poor Onni, he really has been out there alone for too long. Someone give the guy a hug, a safe place to rest up, and a good meal or several.
Post by: Suominoita on August 11, 2020, 12:34:13 PM
Reynir himself (except he looks a bit too surprised and the arm potition is the sort that doesn't quite feel right)
Lalli (remember, this is the SILENT world; Lalli doesn't speak Icelandic and Reynir doesn't understand Finnish; and Lalli is generally silent.) who just kills that insect and then shows it to Reynir. Sitting with Emil on the next bench facing Reynir.
Emil -- umm... maybe.
Onni by controlling Reynir. (Improvised Finnish magic requires noise-making! I don't think so.)
Tuuri possessing Reynir or pecking him. (She's still in Onni's bag)
Sigrun and Mikkel don't seem like the type to bother, if they even noticed any insects. Mikkel may insist on some remedies/ scare Reynir about "face cancer" later though...
Personally, I think it was Lalli.
Post by: Mirasol on August 11, 2020, 12:51:16 PM
Post by: thorny on August 11, 2020, 07:48:35 PM
Post by: Annuil on August 11, 2020, 08:42:38 PM
What I want to know is, what is that squashed in his hand that he looks so freaked out about?And yes, that gives a scary/alarm cliffhanger! I mean, you usually look at your hand when you slap an insect just to know what it was, but in this comic nothing happens without a reason…
Post by: wavewright62 on August 11, 2020, 11:18:28 PM
Post by: Jitter on August 12, 2020, 02:46:34 AM
In any case I’m not buying the mosquito theory. He could slap a mozzie but wouldn’t look that surprised. A childhood memory from the lake (from the very area if the island is Selkäsaari like I think) offers the option of a horsefly. Their bite hurts, enough to be a surprise too. But as mentioned above, nothing in this comic happens without a reason, so that seems a bit mundane as an explanation. Although Minna could just put it in to have some slapstick for us.
Now I had another idea, although perhaps a bit far-fetched. What if Onni can “enlist” some local bugs to work as sentries (similar to what the sentinel mages do, although perhaps just a few and for shorter periods) and he made one of those sting Reynir, who is then surprised by am unprovoked attack from an unexpected bug, or can somehow see it’s not a normal bug. At first I thought of a tiny drone, but that’s implausible in the setting :)
Post by: lumilaulu on August 12, 2020, 03:13:19 PM
Judging by the glove the hand is wearing, it only can be either Reynir himself or Lalli, everyone else has fully colored gloves. But I agree that Reynir looks too surprised to have done it himself conciously. So either posession or Lalli is what I think.Your comment made me compare gloves, and Lalli's gloves seem to be too long. The two lines below the wrist seem to fit with Reynir's gloves.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 12, 2020, 08:43:32 PM
Post by: Annuil on August 12, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Interesting, and yet another reason why attempting to apply too much science to SSSS is fruitless. I found myself trying to extrapolate the effect upon the critters that feed upon mozzies, but it's not worth it.Well, I kind of like the idea of having mosquitos as some kind of markers - you know what to expect if you see that marker...
Post by: phocena on August 12, 2020, 11:14:58 PM
Post by: Mirasol on August 13, 2020, 09:27:56 AM
That mosquito welcoming party on the bottom left panel ;DOh, the horror! :'D
No, but I actually really enjoyed this piece of worldbuilding. And it does make sense and is a useful indicator (no we don´t think about science now.) Just... why did it have to be mosquitos?
The one quote I kept thinking about when reading todays page (not about mosquitos but I guess a similar situation, namely following an unpleasant insect to avoid a monster):
Ron: Why spiders? Why couldn't it be "follow the butterflies?” ― J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Post by: JoB on August 13, 2020, 10:49:40 AM
Well, I kind of like the idea of having mosquitos as some kind of markers - you know what to expect if you see that marker...Y91 mnemonic rhyme: "By the pricking of my face, nothing's wicked in this place!" :3
Post by: Jitter on August 13, 2020, 11:37:50 AM
Post by: Mirasol on August 13, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
Mirasol, sorry, but I can't resist: spiders aren't insects but arachnids C:-)
I know, but unpleasant nonetheless. :'D
I think in my fanfiction I wrote that spiders are insects too at some point, mainly for the lack of a better word... "Critter" or something has quite the connotations in this story.
Post by: Jitter on August 13, 2020, 01:24:11 PM
Post by: Mirasol on August 13, 2020, 07:13:44 PM
Spiders are bugs! But not insects. (You are right, critter doesn’t work here)
Thank you! :)) Yeah, that´s a better word, I think I´ll change it to this.
Post by: Vulpes on August 13, 2020, 07:52:35 PM
Spiders are bugs! But not insects. (You are right, critter doesn’t work here)
Oh you just had to start discussing arthropod terminology, didn't you? ;)
In entomologist-speak, "bug" refers to true bugs (Hemiptera, e.g. stink bugs, cicadas), which is an order of insects, so spiders aren't really bugs, either. But English seems to lack a common term for all these creatures. Maybe "creepy-crawly"? Not a word, as such, but a term that covers all those things with more legs than many people can cope with. One could use "arthropod", but that's more technical.
Or you can ignore the pedantic entomologist and continue calling them all bugs. ::)
Post by: Róisín on August 13, 2020, 10:42:47 PM
Post by: thorny on August 14, 2020, 10:05:18 AM
ETA: And if those are squirrels, they sure don't look like our (NE USA) squirrels!
Post by: JoB on August 14, 2020, 10:15:58 AM
English seems to lack a common term for all these creatures. Maybe "creepy-crawly"?Considering that most people would include lifeforms up to and including (nematodes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nematode) and) annelids (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annelid) into the concept, I suppose that a proper term would be "protostome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protostome)" ... which would promptly gain the novel pronunciation "protest-o-me", I guess. >:D
Post by: JoB on August 14, 2020, 10:19:08 AM
ETA: And if those are squirrels, they sure don't look like our (NE USA) squirrels!If only all species were as easy to tell apart as your and our (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_squirrel) squirrels ... :3
Post by: Jitter on August 14, 2020, 10:20:13 AM
I didn’t even know there is a thing that is officially “bug”! In Finnish we have “ötökkä” which is usually used for insects and arachnids, but may include various other “creepy-crawlies”. Caterpillars etc are usually included. It is strictly an everyday usage and doesn’t have an official meaning. Sometimes it’s used for “creature” in a more general way but often when there is something strange or weird about the said creature.
Post by: JoB on August 14, 2020, 10:23:30 AM
I didn’t even know there is a thing that is officially “bug”!You got to be kidding me (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle) ... >:D
Post by: Jitter on August 14, 2020, 10:28:52 AM
Post by: Jitter on August 14, 2020, 10:29:50 AM
Post by: Mirasol on August 14, 2020, 03:46:44 PM
Oh you just had to start discussing arthropod terminology, didn't you? ;)
In entomologist-speak, "bug" refers to true bugs (Hemiptera, e.g. stink bugs, cicadas), which is an order of insects, so spiders aren't really bugs, either. But English seems to lack a common term for all these creatures. Maybe "creepy-crawly"? Not a word, as such, but a term that covers all those things with more legs than many people can cope with. One could use "arthropod", but that's more technical.
Or you can ignore the pedantic entomologist and continue calling them all bugs. ::)
If I may offer a further piece of pedantry: while I know that the American usage is to call any small insect-like or arachnid-like thing a bug, bugs are strictly speaking a type of insect, soft bodied, distinguished by factors such as body type, wing structure, and piercing/sucking mouth parts. I think the order might be Hemipteræ?
Considering that most people would include lifeforms up to and including (nematodes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nematode) and) annelids (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annelid) into the concept, I suppose that a proper term would be "protostome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protostome)" ... which would promptly gain the novel pronunciation "protest-o-me", I guess. >:D
You know what, maybe I´ll just paraphrase the sentence so I don´t even need a word for that... :'D
Post by: lumilaulu on August 14, 2020, 06:55:10 PM
Why would all the mammals be immune? If there's no source of infection on the island, non-immunes would have survived there, wouldn't they?Perhaps there used to be sources of infection, leaving only immune animals, who then get immune young?
Post by: JoB on August 15, 2020, 10:09:52 AM
Perhaps there used to be sources of infection, leaving only immune animals, who then get immune young?If that island has had an outbreak, then - according to what Onni said - it had necessarily lost its mosquito population at that time, too. Where did the current population come from, with mosquito-free infested Silent Lands all around?
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on August 15, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
If that island has had an outbreak, then - according to what Onni said - it had necessarily lost its mosquito population at that time, too. Where did the current population come from, with mosquito-free infested Silent Lands all around?Spontaneous Generation. /mikkel
Post by: phocena on August 15, 2020, 02:59:12 PM
Post by: thorny on August 15, 2020, 05:58:05 PM
Those are European red squirrels, and look exactly like them except perhaps a bit on the chubby side
We have mostly the grey ones here, but sometimes the red. Minna's version seemed to me to have extremely short faces for squirrels.
Speaking of faces: I have had another thought, based on recent greater experience with face masks. Reynir must be wearing his 24/7, no? They don't even have the Cat Tank for a shelter in which he could go without it. I sure hope they've got more comfortable face masks available for long-term wear in year 90 than seem to exist in 2020 -- keeping one on continuously for even several hours becomes difficult, especially if doing something active and/or in hot weather.
ETA: Though at least his can presumably have exhale valve(s); it only needs to protect him from the environment, not the rest of the (immune) crew from him.
Post by: Vulpes on August 15, 2020, 07:22:47 PM
Considering that most people would include lifeforms up to and including (nematodes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nematode) and) annelids (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annelid) into the concept, I suppose that a proper term would be "protostome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protostome)" ... which would promptly gain the novel pronunciation "protest-o-me", I guess. >:D
I think a lot of people would include echinoderms and acorn worms (Hemichordata) among the creepy-crawlies, and they're deuterostomes. I like your suggested pronunciation of protostome, though! :))
I didn’t even know there is a thing that is officially “bug”! In Finnish we have “ötökkä” which is usually used for insects and arachnids, but may include various other “creepy-crawlies”. Caterpillars etc are usually included.
Unless you mean something else by caterpillar than I do, remember they are insects. ;)
You know what, maybe I´ll just paraphrase the sentence so I don´t even need a word for that... :'D
Keep in mind you've got a bit of a nerdy crew here... most people use "bug" in the broadest sense. I just get caught up sometimes in the futile crusade to reclaim "bug" for the Hemiptera.
Post by: Vulpes on August 15, 2020, 07:48:37 PM
Why would all the mammals be immune? If there's no source of infection on the island, non-immunes would have survived there, wouldn't they?
Perhaps there used to be sources of infection, leaving only immune animals, who then get immune young?
My first thought was similar to thorny's - why should they necessarily all be immune? But if the island isn't far out, which it appears not to be, then infected animals could reach it. Plus there are semi-aquatic mammals like mink and otter. So, anything susceptible must have died and not become a beast, and the immune ones multiplied. Any arriving beasts are few and far between, and can't infect any of the resident animals. I wonder if for that reason they move on?
If that island has had an outbreak, then - according to what Onni said - it had necessarily lost its mosquito population at that time, too. Where did the current population come from, with mosquito-free infested Silent Lands all around?
Maybe the local mosquitoes survived thanks to surviving human settlements, and then spread via stagnant water around the area.
It seems like mosquitoes are a real rarity, if Reynir had never encountered one before. But I need to remind myself that Minna is not a biologist... there are many mosquitoes that bite birds, which as non-mammals are immune. So really, there ought to be plenty of mosquitoes around, feeding on birds. I'm no mosquito expert, but at least some that bite birds also bite humans - that was the big concern when West Nile Virus turned up in eastern North America, that it would be spread from birds to humans, which did indeed happen. But the Minnaverse can have its own rules, and I should stop trying to apply our-world ecological concepts to a fictional version of the world! :'D
Post by: Jitter on August 15, 2020, 08:50:31 PM
Post by: Róisín on August 15, 2020, 11:10:29 PM
I’m just an enthusiastic amateur, but insects have always been fascinating to me, both because I understand enough about ecology to know how important they are in nature, and because I was the nerdy kid who started teaching herself to read while sitting in her dad’s lap while he read his way through the works of Jean-Henri Fabre. Only problem with that was that he had some volumes in the English editions, and most in the French. Back between the wars it was a bit difficult to find all the books, and most of the old volumes of Fabre’s work that were in my Gran’s library were the older French ones, while my dad could only find English ones to fill in the gaps. This switching back and forth between languages made learning to read a bit more difficult, especially when few of the folk around me used English in daily life. But I managed, and Fabre sparked a lifelong interest in the tiny creatures of our world.
Post by: Suominoita on August 16, 2020, 05:23:57 AM
If that island has had an outbreak, then - according to what Onni said - it had necessarily lost its mosquito population at that time, too. Where did the current population come from, with mosquito-free infested Silent Lands all around?The eggs in still water places. THOSE would die out before laying eggs unless there was some non-infected mammal-blood for them.
Post by: JoB on August 16, 2020, 06:54:33 AM
Maybe the local mosquitoes survived thanks to surviving human settlements, and then spread via stagnant water around the area.They're deep into Silent Finland (though I have no information about what distances a mosquito would or wouldn't call "a marathon") and Reynir apparently did not meet any in "the capital" / Finlands int'l harbor, either, which should be on the rather large side of existing settlements.
Any arriving beasts are few and far between, and can't infect any of the resident animals. I wonder if for that reason they move on?Hm. The rules stated in-comic say that beasts aren't inclined to do much wandering, and don't have a "move on or starve!" motivation forcing them to. When I think about them having a nonzero chance of winding up on this Rash-free island, I'm primarily thinking along the lines of "washed into the lake in a storm and unwilling to just pop out some gills and fins" ...
I'm no mosquito expert, but at least some that bite birds also bite humansThe logic implied by Onni is that "if they're willing to bite mammals and there are any infected within range, they'll randomly try to nom one of those sooner or later and promptly die", which makes it somewhat irrelevant who their usual victims are.
The eggs in still water places.... IIUC you're assuming that the Rash had come to the island and gone again in between the eggs being laid and having evolved into an imago? Fat chance, given the near-immortality of grosslings ...
Spoiler: math nerd talk • show
I think a lot of people would include echinoderms and acorn worms (Hemichordata) among the creepy-crawlies, and they're deuterostomes.The problem with that is that "deuterostome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterostome)" (and thus the next-higher clade encompassing both, nephrozoa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephrozoa)) does contain all the critters people usually want to not associate with "creepy crawly" and similar terms of endearment. :3
most people use "bug" in the broadest sense. I just get caught up sometimes in the futile crusade to reclaim "bug" for the Hemiptera.So you're saying that that topic does not personally bug you? 8)
Speaking of faces: I have had another thought, based on recent greater experience with face masks. Reynir must be wearing his 24/7, no?Actually, no. Even if we assume that Minna will occasionally just not draw it at all (in addition to half-transparent versions), it has been established (https://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=420) that Reynir is sometimes out and about sans mask. After all, most grosslings (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=437) have to bite him to get him infected ...
Post by: phocena on August 16, 2020, 04:53:49 PM
- I'd imagine that after several decades mosquitoes would evolve to avoid biting and be repulsed by trolls. Maybe even be magically repulsed by them at a distance beyond what they can smell.
- It also seems that in the Sahel, where all stagnant water dries out for 3-8 months, female mosquitoes there seasonally migrate 100 km or more by catching high wind currents (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1622-4 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1622-4)), so its possible post apoc mosquitoes could learn to migrate as well - actually the fact millions of malaria bearing mosquitoes travel hundreds of kilometers across semi desert regions is already pretty post apocalyptic.
- Finally, mosquitoes don't actually need blood to stay alive - they feast on nectar. Blood is only required to provide protein needed to make eggs.
So it could be possible that some of our moSSSSquitos migrate across the lake system, feeding on nectar throughout their lifespan, and only the ones that find safezones would be able to lay eggs. Safezones that remain safe for several years could then support large mosquito populations as the eggs hatch and local mosquitoes continue to proliferate. However, this also means that surviving Finns would not be safe from the bane of mosquitoes either, barring magic.
EDIT: While mosquitoes are apparently rare, they seem common enough that Reynir, who grew up his entire life in an island with no mosquitoes, was able to know what a mosquito was within a year of being outside.
Post by: Róisín on August 16, 2020, 05:26:12 PM
Post by: amaranthineamusement on August 17, 2020, 02:38:49 AM
Post by: Vulpes on August 17, 2020, 06:53:12 PM
So you're saying that that topic does not personally bug you? 8)
Haha, no, not really, despite going on about it. Every now and then I get into this with someone, just for fun - I'm fine with "bug" in the general sense of creepy-crawly and sometimes catch myself using it. And then there are all the other usages, one of which you demonstrated. If I tried to clean English of all non-Hemiptera uses of "bug", I'd go buggy! ;D
Post by: JoB on August 18, 2020, 08:17:35 AM
If I tried to clean English of all non-Hemiptera uses of "bug", I'd go buggy! ;DIt'd be downright hopeless (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug_(engineering)#History) for sure. I recommend quitting at the "bug-eyed" stage instead! ::)
Post by: Annuil on August 23, 2020, 11:39:21 AM
(I’m sorry if this isn’t the right thread…)
Post by: thegreyarea on August 23, 2020, 12:18:06 PM
I’m jumping in with a question that is a little off of the theme of the thread, but I couldn’t find a better place to ask... I was looking through the official store (the one that always has a link to it under the pages of the comic) and I couldn’t find a way to buy the first two books in the hard cover... Is there some other place Minna sells them or they are just out of stock? I missed the time they were printed and didn’t buy them right away, so... does anyone know if there is a hope that they will be back in stock or I just lost my chance of getting them?I went to the Hivemill store and had no problem in adding to the cart the first book hardcover for 39$, and the second one for $35. I didn't proceed further, but it seems that they have them in stock. Maybe some browser problem on your side?
(The books are also available in the kickstarter as options).
Aside from Hivemill and Minna's own store (when it's open, and when she has books to deliver) there's no way to buy the books AFAIK. Except in French, from Aquileos.fr
Post by: Jitter on August 23, 2020, 01:29:17 PM
There is also the 3-book bundle left on the Kickstarter, which includes all three in hardcover + stickers. The shipping date for that is late this year, in the Hivemill store I believe they have the books ready for shipping.
Post by: Annuil on August 23, 2020, 06:18:44 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on August 31, 2020, 02:43:25 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 31, 2020, 02:48:14 AM
The handful of brain cells that's still shipping Reynir and Tuuri after all this time approves of the latest page. :tuuri: <3 :reynir:
She did, after all, call him stupid.
Post by: thorny on August 31, 2020, 10:17:54 AM
She did, after all, call him stupid.
I noticed that. Seems like she thinks he's now part of the family, at least.
Post by: Annuil on August 31, 2020, 10:19:26 AM
I noticed that. Seems like she thinks he's now part of the family, at least.Or a loved one...
Post by: JoB on August 31, 2020, 10:57:18 AM
Seems like she thinks he's now part of the family, at least.
Or a loved one...Or she assumes that the rest of the team must've heard it often enough from the Hotakainens that they're under the impression that it's the term Finnish uses when a heavier synonym like "you" isn't warranted. :P
Post by: LilG on August 31, 2020, 05:40:05 PM
The handful of brain cells that's still shipping Reynir and Tuuri after all this time approves of the latest page. :tuuri: <3 :reynir:
She did, after all, call him stupid.
I noticed that. Seems like she thinks he's now part of the family, at least.
Or a loved one...
This very much pleases the shipper brain.
Post by: thorny on September 02, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on September 03, 2020, 07:00:57 AM
Though he's probably going to get that sentiment about every single member of the crew at some point before the end of the Adventure. Even Emil. Especially Emil.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on September 09, 2020, 01:30:51 AM
this is a weird one. is the troll (or giant i guess)... feeding on the deer? what's the deal with that?
also: the disqus board for the page where onni is falling out of the sky and lalli is on the beach after tuuri dies is still open. kinda amusing to see that people are still posting there
(don't tell minna)
Post by: Jitter on September 09, 2020, 02:29:13 AM
Post by: thorny on September 09, 2020, 10:20:09 PM
Or is Tuonela supposed to be a physical place, which he knows how to find?
Post by: thegreyarea on September 10, 2020, 05:30:59 AM
So is Onni jumping off that cliff in the dreamworld?I believe the cliff is in the real world, seeing Onni's clothes and weapons.
Or is Tuonela supposed to be a physical place, which he knows how to find?
As some commented, in Finnish tales there are special places called "Lovi", usually at the bottom of lakes, where cracks between the real world and Tuonela exist, allowing those with the right knowledge (and lots of courage) to cross. If Onni physically crossed the gap to another realm or if it was just his soul (while his body is in the lake's water) is something that we hopefully will find out in the coming pages.
Post by: thorny on September 10, 2020, 10:10:05 AM
in Finnish tales there are special places called "Lovi", usually at the bottom of lakes, where cracks between the real world and Tuonela exist, allowing those with the right knowledge (and lots of courage) to cross.
Ah. Thanks, that would explain it.
Post by: thorny on September 12, 2020, 11:56:40 AM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on September 13, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Post by: Lallicat on September 13, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
Post by: Róisín on September 13, 2020, 04:11:09 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on September 13, 2020, 06:00:00 PM
So who wants to take bets that the swan will reference the events of A Redtail's Dream in some way in the next few pages?
Or the events of Kalevala?I'm with Lallicat. I'd love if both were somehow referenced :)
Post by: wavewright62 on September 13, 2020, 08:41:32 PM
Post by: Jitter on September 24, 2020, 05:18:38 PM
Post by: Mirasol on September 25, 2020, 01:46:42 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on October 08, 2020, 02:32:11 AM
Post by: Jitter on October 08, 2020, 03:39:58 AM
However it means Onni has to join the team as a full member, because Kitty can't just abandon her other proteges!
Post by: Annuil on October 08, 2020, 01:30:40 PM
(Cats and dogs (I have a dog) are such great stress-reliefs ^-^)
Post by: wavewright62 on October 08, 2020, 03:49:46 PM
Post by: thorny on October 08, 2020, 08:46:38 PM
Post by: Anna on October 08, 2020, 10:21:44 PM
Post by: thorny on October 12, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Mama Bear is trying so hard --
And I've lost track. What do these bears have to do with saving Grandma?
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on October 12, 2020, 11:04:46 PM
And I've lost track. What do these bears have to do with saving Grandma?They're the kade's goon squad. To get to the kade (who has Ensi's soul trapped), Onni et al need to get through them first.
Of course, this would be easier if they could talk the bears into "going to score some steroids", if you will.
Post by: kit_r_writing on October 21, 2020, 12:56:46 AM
On page 156 of the first adventure http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=156 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=156), the info page about the Trainsaw, there is a picture taken from what is apparently the last moment of the Hjorten's fatal third trip. My first impression was GIANT EFFING SPIDER NOPE NOPE NOPE, but spiders aren't mammals so obviously that couldn't be what was in the picture, and after a second look it reminds me of the Giant Claws of Cow Slicing that presumably belong to Surma.
It's a long way from Sweden to Finland, especially if you can't take the ferry. But it's been at least twelve years (the proposal for Dalahasten was dated in Year 79).
Post by: Mirasol on October 22, 2020, 03:56:47 PM
Also, welcome to the forum! If you want to, please stop by at the introduction-thread! (Of course not mandatory.) You can find it on the general-discussion-board, it´s pinned on top.
Post by: wavewright62 on October 23, 2020, 03:53:12 AM
Post by: Lallicat on November 02, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Post by: Anna on November 02, 2020, 06:12:18 PM
Post by: Annuil on November 02, 2020, 09:26:13 PM
Also! Who’s hands are on the fifth (bottom left) panel? If that’s Onni (because the gloves look like Onni’s) is he left-handed?? :onni: :V
Post by: muidole on November 02, 2020, 11:15:07 PM
I'm also in the camp of thinking Tuuri's partially see-through/translucent.
Post by: Róisín on November 03, 2020, 02:28:34 AM
And for a small woman with a lifelong involvement in martial arts, being ambidextrous has proved very useful, especially being able to switch hands in competition.
Post by: Jitter on November 03, 2020, 05:41:27 AM
Minna has said she has trouble telling right from left (chirality issues). It seems she doesn’t find it worth it to check for consistency, because items (such as Lalli’s rifle) and people keep moving around for no reason, and probably everyone is seen both right and left handed things over the course of time. So, everyone is ambidextrous, we might as well go with Róisín’s suggestion that they are all trained to be so on purpose :)
Post by: Mirasol on November 04, 2020, 05:24:01 PM
So, everyone is ambidextrous, we might as well go with Róisín’s suggestion that they are all trained to be so on purpose :)
Yes, it seems like a good idea to just say it´s planned. :'D It also really makes sense in context.
To the Tuuri-question, I´m also in the semi-translucent plus being affected by the surrounding lighting-boat. I actually included that in my "cat hat"-YoinkTober-picture. (I know that one doesn´t really have lighting per se, but it was my train of thought when deciding to make her lineart orange.) :tuuri:
Post by: muidole on November 04, 2020, 05:46:03 PM
Rather think that living in their world would be a good incentive to ambidexterity. Many people do have that potential
So, everyone is ambidextrous, we might as well go with Róisín’s suggestion that they are all trained to be so on purpose :)
Yeah, put into that perspective, it makes a lot of sense for them all to be ambidextrous based on their environment. I'll be headcanoning that from now on :V
I actually included that in my "cat hat"-YoinkTober-picture. (I know that one doesn´t really have lighting per se, but it was my train of thought when deciding to make her lineart orange.) :tuuri:
And I just looked back to find the drawing you were referring to, what a great idea and lovely drawing!
Post by: Lallicat on November 04, 2020, 06:57:00 PM
Post by: muidole on November 04, 2020, 08:43:59 PM
Or maybe she just wanted to test out the trap to make sure it worked :'D
Post by: thorny on November 04, 2020, 09:27:28 PM
Apparently it had occured to Sigrun too.
Post by: Jitter on November 05, 2020, 03:10:08 AM
That's not Sigrun grabbing her though, I think it's Reynir. Him and Lalli consistently wear those half black with lighter fingers gloves, while Mikkel's and Onni's are brown and in any case one color, as well as Sigrun's which are otherwise different too. Emil seems to be carrying a selection of gloves upon his person, at minimum two-color ones like the other boys and brown ones with the turned up part on the arm like Sigrun's :) Nobody's shown with the laces sticking out like above Kitty's head on Panel 4 but many have laces along their arms, either in sleeves or gloves. I went back all the way to Väinö's (over a year! or a few days in comic time)
So, it could in theory be Emil as well, but Reynir seems to be the official cat herder now, so I think it's him.
Post by: thorny on November 05, 2020, 09:49:08 AM
Or maybe I wasn't thinking much at all; I'm kind of distracted at the moment.
Post by: Mirasol on November 05, 2020, 11:15:54 AM
So, it could in theory be Emil as well, but Reynir seems to be the official cat herder now, so I think it's him.
I think the person standing on the other side of the hole is Emil. They´re wearing a cape without fur, and since we see Sigrun in front of us it technically can only be Emil. So I guess Reynir caught Kitty. (Though at first glance I thought it was Sigrun too.)
Post by: Jitter on November 05, 2020, 12:13:46 PM
This particular time the grab even comes from the directions of Reynir i.e. from the left side of Kitty as seen by us. That alone doesn’t count as proof though :)
Post by: wavewright62 on November 05, 2020, 04:05:29 PM
Post by: muidole on November 05, 2020, 07:34:41 PM
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on November 05, 2020, 09:06:25 PM
Minna has said she has trouble telling right from left (chirality issues). It seems she doesn’t find it worth it to check for consistency, because items (such as Lalli’s rifle) and people keep moving around for no reason, and probably everyone is seen both right and left handed things over the course of time. So, everyone is ambidextrous, we might as well go with Róisín’s suggestion that they are all trained to be so on purpose :)/me shuffles in nervously
...That was my cue (https://archiveofourown.org/works/9505088/chapters/24795456), wasn't it?
/me flees
Post by: Annuil on November 05, 2020, 09:20:14 PM
Annuil, I’m pretty sure it’s Onni. All the boys have black gloves, Mikkel has black cuffs and Sigrun has fancy brown gloves :)
Minna has said she has trouble telling right from left (chirality issues). It seems she doesn’t find it worth it to check for consistency, because items (such as Lalli’s rifle) and people keep moving around for no reason, and probably everyone is seen both right and left handed things over the course of time. So, everyone is ambidextrous, we might as well go with Róisín’s suggestion that they are all trained to be so on purpose :)
Yeah, I think you, guys, are probably right ;D I mean, it’s pretty hard to learn to be ambidextrous, but it’s really useful!
(I’m actually working on that since last month, like, I make myself do some writing exercises, brush my teeth and eat with my left hand O_o and it’s actually working! I have succeeded in drawing a draft with the left hand, when I needed my right one to pose and I cut an apple! :'D)
I realized that you can work twice as fast while taking a test if you have a pencil in each hand! Do all the checks and marks with one and fill that answer paper with the other at the same time >:D
Post by: Grade E cat on November 06, 2020, 02:54:55 AM
Post by: Jitter on November 06, 2020, 05:59:07 AM
Post by: Mirasol on November 06, 2020, 10:45:43 AM
Why was I reminded up playing the The Wind Waker while seeing Emil today?
Oh! Oooh! The memories come flooding back... :'D These parts in the game gave me so much anxiety, even though I don´t think you can actually fall except for at the end. But I did not know that when I played it. My brother, who was watching me, did, and was quite amused.
Now I can´t unsee it, thanks for pointing it out! :'D
Post by: Quetanto on November 07, 2020, 07:40:02 AM
The Swan of Tuonela wanted two Hotakkainens back by the end of summer, right? And we’ve assumed that it’s got to be Tuuri and Ensi. Otherwise it could be Tuuri and Onni.
But what if the two Hotakkainens the swan gets back are destined to be Ensi and Onni? A dark way of reuniting Tuuri with the Crew for a while longer, giving Onni peace at the cost of himself (and losing the Crew a friend and protector)...
I’m not sure, though. Maybe the Swan will want Tuuri back anyway.
Thoughts?
Post by: Annuil on November 07, 2020, 08:59:08 AM
However, you never know what the Swan really meant, but I think it would be strange to leave Tuuri in the world of the living when she is in that form :-\
If the Swan meant two NEW Hotokainens then there will be no way for Onni to survive, but I think that’s not the case.
If they will not free Ensi during the summer, then the Swan will have to accept Onni and Tuuri as two Hotokainens.
But what if they free many souls from Kade? I have too many happy ideas about that, so that probably wouldn’t happen.
These are my sketchy ideas :)
Post by: Grade E cat on November 07, 2020, 10:26:08 AM
Post by: moredhel on November 07, 2020, 02:10:04 PM
Post by: midwestmutt on November 08, 2020, 09:53:22 AM
Post by: Lallicat on November 12, 2020, 08:04:43 PM
Post by: Vulpes on November 13, 2020, 04:29:55 PM
So what do you guys think made the bears turn away? Where do you think they’re going that’s so important that they don’t have time for a nice tasty snack? (From the bears’ point of view. I don’t want Emil to get eaten.)
Yes, let's not have bears snacking on our favourite Swede, please!
My two guesses: 1) They're smart enough to recognize a trap. After all, they've obviously been attacked in the past. 2) The kade is able to communicate with them and has warned them.
I kind of hope it's the first, if the kade is actually working with them rather than just using them for cover, it'd be even more difficult for the flock of clowns to deal with them.
Post by: Mirasol on November 14, 2020, 06:37:19 PM
Another possibility could be that, while the Kade may have not seen the trap or warned them, maybe it´s just calling them to it for an unrelated reason. Yeah, now that I type it that seems kinda unlikely... :'D
Post by: Vulpes on November 22, 2020, 03:58:14 PM
Post by: Annuil on November 22, 2020, 10:41:44 PM
Post by: thorny on November 23, 2020, 10:14:56 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on November 23, 2020, 04:50:40 PM
The more I see of those cubs, the more I think that's not two cubs, but one cub in two pieces. I don't know why that makes it seem more horrible, but it does.
That seems to be a popular theory in the Disqus comments. The fact that there are spines for each of them wouldn't necessarily be a logical stop when you have so many trolls adapting their ribs for other purposes.
Post by: thegreyarea on November 24, 2020, 08:16:45 AM
That seems to be a popular theory in the Disqus comments. The fact that there are spines for each of them wouldn't necessarily be a logical stop when you have so many trolls adapting their ribs for other purposes.
You're right. But it seems that Minna considers them fully separate entities, since she even named them (which is something she usually doesn't do for all trolls or beasts). There's also the fact that bears usually have two cubs (they can go 1 to 4, it seems, but 2 is the most frequent). So I'll stay with 2 very mutated cubs.
Additionally someone vented the theory that the headless and gutless state of the furry one could be Surma's work. I think it would be an interesting way to create a relation between them.
But now we will need even more patience, since in the coming weeks the update pace will be halved... :(
Post by: wavewright62 on November 24, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
But now we will need even more patience, since in the coming weeks the update pace will be halved... :((http://orig13.deviantart.net/3dbe/f/2015/194/5/7/tuuri_3_by_aquaaurion-d913xkh.png)(https://36.media.tumblr.com/1e010c6104c5b2b5219aeff7ea589646/tumblr_nqf7djOa7p1r6soqlo8_r1_500.png)(http://i.imgur.com/EUV5IKl.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/gCLwTxH.jpg?1)
Post by: thegreyarea on November 25, 2020, 01:21:26 PM
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/3aa02e2a747bf5125e2b46f992c60569/tumblr_nq1wy0BMEE1r6soqlo3_250.png)
Post by: Vulpes on November 25, 2020, 04:37:58 PM
But it seems that Minna considers them fully separate entities, since she even named them
Techincally, the people in the story have given them names... and they could be mistaken.
Then again, at the moment they function more or less independently, so it probably doesn't really matter if they were once one.
Post by: thorny on December 24, 2020, 07:21:48 PM
Post by: JoB on December 25, 2020, 03:06:33 AM
So, if all the mages just got yanked into the dreamworld, as the Discus comment seems to think: what are Mikkel and Sigrun and Emil seeing? Would the mages' bodies appear to collapse into sleep or coma?No 100% proof, but the last panels before our POV changes to the magescape suggest that their RL bodies hold the same position that the magescape equivalents start out with - standing, with the same hand(s) over their eyes. I sure hope, however, that their RL bodies will not start to run around when their magescape presences do, what with the Bear Hole still nearby..
(Considering that they can bridge large distances in the magescape, that would also bring up the paradox that their RL bodies would need to effectively teleport to fully mirror the magescape goings-on. Or, in Onnis case, fly ...)
Mages usually go to sleep to enter the magescape. Might make it easier to get there, also less accident prone, but it's by no means a strict requirement, as Onni demonstrated here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=478). (He also demonstrated how starting things awake (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=646) can be a risk of falling (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=661).)
Post by: Mirasol on December 25, 2020, 09:39:00 AM
So, if all the mages just got yanked into the dreamworld, as the Discus comment seems to think: what are Mikkel and Sigrun and Emil seeing? Would the mages' bodies appear to collapse into sleep or coma?
Hm... I´m being reminded of the first ghost-attack back in Adventure 1 which had a similar situation. Reynir also suddenly found himself in the dreamspace in the same position he had left the real world in. In that case the next time we see him in the real world he does still hold that position, but he was sitting anyway, so perhaps he did faint (like the accompanying non-mages or at least Mikkel and Sigrun) and just got up again.
But in this situation we have right here: since at least Onni and Lalli are kinda dependant on the underwater-rock they are standing on, I doubt they could move too much, so they should be safe from the bearhole. Reynir on the other hand...
Post by: Vulpes on December 25, 2020, 10:05:56 AM
I'm not sure I quite approve of Minna's Christmas gift - an early page, yes, but that much longer of a cliffhanger before we find out what's going on! ;D
Post by: Annuil on December 25, 2020, 08:46:17 PM
Can’t wait to see what Minna is going to surprise us with on this matter (she always manages to surprise us, I don’t know how she gets all those great ideas for unusual plot twists)
I still wonder if non-mages can see Kade? Like, does it have a full form, when it’s not in somebody’s mind? Minna presented us some kind of its visual form but we still don’t know if it’s what normal people see (that being wrapped in something that has one eye)
Post by: Mirasol on December 26, 2020, 01:42:59 PM
I still wonder if non-mages can see Kade? Like, does it have a full form, when it’s not in somebody’s mind? Minna presented us some kind of its visual form but we still don’t know if it’s what normal people see (that being wrapped in something that has one eye)
-disclaimer: entering full theory-territory here-
The wrapped-in-cloth-thing does seem to be pretty much human-shaped, and since they never found Ensi´s body (who was immune and therefore wouldn´t have reformed) the Kade could have made itself a physical form using Ensi. But the last time we saw it it was killing birds who-knows-where (probably in one of the other sentinel´s territories... didn´t one of them have sparrows or something?), so perhaps said physical form is currently hanging out somewhere completely different, and all that´s here now is that little dark cloud we saw with the bears. (I think on the Kade-infopage it said that the Kade could be invisible/ just in the wind or something.) Tuuri could see that, but maybe a spirit´s vision isn´t comparable to that of a non-mage who is... well... alive.
Post by: Vulpes on December 26, 2020, 04:07:18 PM
Post by: Annuil on December 26, 2020, 06:46:00 PM
-disclaimer: entering full theory-territory here-Hah, this is always so fun!
Still, interesting, I guess we will not know what Kade really looks like for the regular people until Minna shows us ;)
Post by: Vulpes on December 27, 2020, 09:50:30 AM
Interesting ideas, but since Kade has many beings trapped inside of it, it might be able to fight both DW and RL worlds...
*covers eyes like mages* LALALALA I CAN'T READ YOU!!! ;D ;D
Post by: Annuil on December 27, 2020, 08:16:16 PM
*covers eyes like mages* LALALALA I CAN'T READ YOU!!! ;D ;DPhaha, well, I suppose regular people cannot see Kade at all, as the latest page suggests. Maybe it has a potential danger only for mages, so we dont have to worry much about the non-mages... Nonetheless, now we know that Kitty can sense Kade too, which means that it has some mortal base, it's not just a lump of souls glued together that's flying around attacking mages in the DW.
Also, I was wondering, was Hilja immune or not? She did turn into a beast after being infected with, appearently, Kade's type of Rash illness, so, does the Kade-infection turn even immune people into some sort of... magical monsters that can change form or become invisable? And was it Kade that "was looking again" for the Hotakainens on page 334, Adventure 1? Or are these questions still a mistery for us?
Post by: JoB on December 27, 2020, 08:32:31 PM
Also, I was wondering, was Hilja immune or not? She did turn into a beast after being infected with, appearently, Kade's type of Rash illness, so, does the Kade-infection turn even immune peopleAccording to Ensis on-the-spot diagnosis, Hilja infected herself with the vermin beast she had smuggled past Ensi earlier, which suggests that she was not immune. Also, Tuuri told Emil that "almost no-one" in her native village had been immune, with Lalli and Ensi being notable exceptions.
Of course, seeing that Ensi went into quarantine and wore masks just like the non-immunes, in spite of definitely being immune, makes it a tad difficult to tell for sure from the comic.
Post by: Róisín on December 27, 2020, 08:44:09 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on December 28, 2020, 03:02:36 AM
I see two reasons immunes would need to go into quarantine: possible new variants of the Rash (or even new diseases) that can make immunity useless (hence the month-long quarantine even for immunes on the way back from Denmark), and the fact that their stuff would need some downtime after several weeks outside safe areas anyway.
Post by: JoB on December 28, 2020, 03:06:30 AM
My guess was that Ensi may have been doing the masks and quarantine thing because everyone had to? For all they knew, there might have been variants of the rash that could affect the previously immune? One of the fan writers, I think Seilann, played with that idea in a story called ‘Burning’, a few years back. It’s on Archive. And real-world diseases do that. Consider the variant strain of Covid that has turned up recently in the UK.Certainly, there can have been any number of reasons back then - except one: Ensi had already started to train Lalli instead of Onni, so they already knew about immunity (because it is established that Onnis lack thereof was the reason why Ensi switched padawans).
Doesn't change a iota about the fact that the flashback doesn't offer us a reliable indication of who exactly has been immune or not - beyond "it is already known" (Ensi and Lalli), "... not" (Onni, Tuuri, and the entire rest of the family, per Tuuri's statement to Emil), "looks like she wasn't" (Hilja), "sounds like he wasn't" (Tapsa), and "few were" (Tuuri's statement, as well as the final death toll), though.
Post by: Jitter on December 28, 2020, 06:29:08 AM
It seems the village was wiped out by the normal physical variety of the Rash, brought in via the rat beast by possessed Hilja and then spread like it normally spreads.
Post by: Annuil on December 28, 2020, 08:45:58 AM
Certainly, there can have been any number of reasons back then - except one: Ensi had already started to train Lalli instead of Onni, so they already knew about immunity (because it is established that Onnis lack thereof was the reason why Ensi switched padawans).
Doesn't change a iota about the fact that the flashback doesn't offer us a reliable indication of who exactly has been immune or not - beyond "it is already known" (Ensi and Lalli), "... not" (Onni, Tuuri, and the entire rest of the family, per Tuuri's statement to Emil), "looks like she wasn't" (Hilja), "sounds like he wasn't" (Tapsa), and "few were" (Tuuri's statement, as well as the final death toll), though.
All this sounds true, now I found another question to ask, HOW do they know who is immune and who is not? Like, the general thing, how do they check the immunity? XoX
Post by: Jitter on December 28, 2020, 10:08:48 AM
One assumes it's safe for the non-immune to do the analysis, or maybe all babies have to be taken to a special clinic, or a testing patrol comes round yearly to do the tests. In the case of Finland, and likely also Norway and Iceland, it could be magical too, but this doesn't apply to the Swedes and Danish.
Post by: Lallicat on January 07, 2021, 09:30:50 PM
Post by: thorny on January 10, 2021, 07:45:51 PM
And Mama's on guard.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 13, 2021, 03:27:58 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on January 13, 2021, 06:37:54 AM
That takes me to one question: What happens to trolls and beasts when they are exposed continuously to daylight?
We know they don't like it, that it hurts, but what would happen if Emil set the building where the bears are hiding on fire, forcing them out on an area without cover? Would they die from the exposure, like melting or burning, vampire style?
Post by: JoB on January 13, 2021, 11:59:48 AM
I'll have to go back and look it up, but haven't the bears returned to a base they use? Is Onni being overly optimistic about them leaving the town?Onni has been pursuing the kade all the way from Väinös post to Joensuu. We don't know at what point the kade hired some bear muscle, but if that happened to have been late enough to occur near Joensuu, Onni would be excused for not knowing about the bears' habits ...
The bears seem to be in a station next to some highway, so at least they would be outside the central areaThe University of Eastern Finland, where the team caught up with Onni, is less than 2 km from highway 5 (https://www.google.de/maps/place/University+of+Eastern+Finland/@62.610937,29.7457004,13.5z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x469b8665df05a50d:0x601790016cff7e27!2sJoensuu,+Finnland!3b1!8m2!3d62.6010155!4d29.7635719!3m4!1s0x469b8685aeba782d:0xe19bf69fbaa04305!8m2!3d62.6036136!4d29.7470284), and residential areas sit a stone throw away from it in places ...
That takes me to one question: What happens to trolls and beasts when they are exposed continuously to daylight?We have no information on that beyond what the cleanse cycle (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=118) implies, that is, that exposure over winter (cold) is more effective than over summer (light), and that the occasional grossling will still find suitable shelter.
We know they don't like it, that it hurts, but what would happen if Emil set the building where the bears are hiding on fire, forcing them out on an area without cover? Would they die from the exposure, like melting or burning, vampire style?
OK, that and that the dusklings happily venture into sunlight while apparently wearing "shielding" only on top, and that werehouse less-happily did the same, and that werehouse's unshielded tentaclewolves merely had to stick to the shadows in the streets, ...
Post by: thegreyarea on January 13, 2021, 02:16:20 PM
The University of Eastern Finland, where the team caught up with Onni, is less than 2 km from highway 5 (https://www.google.de/maps/place/University+of+Eastern+Finland/@62.610937,29.7457004,13.5z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x469b8665df05a50d:0x601790016cff7e27!2sJoensuu,+Finnland!3b1!8m2!3d62.6010155!4d29.7635719!3m4!1s0x469b8685aeba782d:0xe19bf69fbaa04305!8m2!3d62.6036136!4d29.7470284), and residential areas sit a stone throw away from it in places ...Agreed, but at least they (probably) won't be surrounded by several multi-storey buildings that can be filled with grosslings
We have no information on that beyond what the cleanse cycle (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=118) implies, that is, that exposure over winter (cold) is more effective than over summer (light), and that the occasional grossling will still find suitable shelter...Also agreed. But as you mentioned the grosslings seem to be affected only by direct sunlight. They seem to be fine in the shadows. That would be the reason why the cold is more dangerous to them: because it "penetrates" all spaces. We still don't know what happens due to a longer exposition to direct sunlight (or UV lights - we just know that those can neutralize the infectious agent).
Post by: Annuil on January 14, 2021, 08:04:09 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 14, 2021, 08:22:57 PM
Guys, we have to celebrate it! There is going to be a new chapter WITHOUT a Chapter Break! XoX(https://imgur.com/OB2UK8s.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/jlGkZ1l.png) (https://i.imgur.com/VS4jJsg.png) (https://imgur.com/Z8emUoS.png)
Spoiler: show
Post by: Lallicat on January 14, 2021, 08:25:55 PM
(I'm not the only one who though, "My, what big teeth you have grandma!" the first time I saw the page, right?)
Post by: Annuil on January 14, 2021, 09:05:19 PM
What a wonderful thing to happen!Phahahahaha, Lallicat, I’m rolling on a floor! :'D Now I cannot think anything else but this phrase when looking at the page!
(I'm not the only one who though, "My, what big teeth you have grandma!" the first time I saw the page, right?)
I actually really like the palette of this upcoming chapter, forest/moss-green is my favorite color ever ;D
Post by: thorny on January 14, 2021, 11:00:50 PM
Post by: Annuil on January 14, 2021, 11:07:16 PM
-- but she's not going to have that other project done on time, is she?Hopefully not... (how cruel of us) >:D :'D
Post by: thorny on January 15, 2021, 08:06:17 AM
Post by: JoB on January 16, 2021, 04:01:53 AM
Assuming that Streetview, by chance, photographed the actual cart here (https://www.google.fi/maps/@63.0958468,29.8031476,3a,15y,53.5h,113.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9P0QjhRmII7lVrKQKnYoOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), I'd say that it is self-propelled as it travels atop the rails (heck, it even has headlights like a properly licensed street vehicle ;-) and the "fat cable" is actually delivering electricity to the resort, rather than being a tow cable for the lift. (I'd expect it to run in rollers if it were, so as to prevent it moving sideways and chafing as it pulls the cart.)
Post by: Jitter on January 16, 2021, 05:53:17 AM
Post by: Jitter on January 16, 2021, 05:59:25 AM
Post by: JoB on January 16, 2021, 12:56:08 PM
I do think the cable does pull it though.
Here’s a video of the rideThere clearly is *A* cable pulling the car; in the video, you can see it sitting in rollers on the uphill side, empty rollers as the camera shows the downhill side, and the bobbin rolling it up as the car approaches the upper terminal. However, it's a steel cable less than an inch thick, not the "fat yellow cable" seen in my Streetview link.
... does the top right sign on the resort really say "luontokeskus"? :lalli: :tuuri: :onni: XoX
[peruses Transgarble]
... ah, that's because in this case, "luonto" translates to "nature", not to the SSSS plot element of the same name. ;D
although it’s a lot nicer in winter.I suppose that whoever has to dig it, especially the termini where the rails approach ground level, out of the snow repeatedly would likely disagree. >:D
Post by: Jitter on January 16, 2021, 01:18:01 PM
And the Visitor Centre is indeed Luontokeskus i.e. Nature Centre :) I think they have both lynx and some owls in there (taxidermy that is).
Post by: JoB on January 16, 2021, 01:33:23 PM
And the Visitor Centre is indeed Luontokeskus i.e. Nature Centre :)New headcanon: By Y91, the concept of "nature" fell into disuse, essentially being superseded by terms a la "Silent World". Hence, once the team arrives at the resort and Lalli sees the ancient sign, he grabs Emils hand and tries to pull him aside to have the non-Finn "naturalized" a bit ... :))
Post by: Vulpes on January 16, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
Post by: Groupoid on February 23, 2021, 12:24:44 PM
I’d like to put forward a motion to check up on the blanket fort and restock on supplies if necessary. For obvious reasons or ominous raisins.
Post by: Jitter on February 23, 2021, 03:59:40 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on February 23, 2021, 07:03:26 PM
Congrats, Grupoid! ;)
I've already signed a (dubious) deal with the squirrels to provide the fort with an ample supply of cookies. If I suddenly disappear you know who's to blame! :squirrelcookie:
Post by: Groupoid on February 24, 2021, 04:24:37 PM
(And there went my dosage of political-speech-giving for the next decade or so. This potential to hold imaginary rallying speeches. Not gonna use it.)
Post by: Jitter on February 24, 2021, 04:51:43 PM
Post by: Vulpes on February 25, 2021, 09:54:38 AM
Post by: Mirasol on February 25, 2021, 10:40:16 AM
"Ominous raisins" sounds like an appropriate Minnionly supply. I wonder if the squirrel cookies contain ominous raisins?
*gasp!* Maybe that´s what´s in the crunchy bits! XoX
Spoiler: show
ominous In any case, it sounds like a very appropriate Minnion-supply.
Post by: Annuil on February 25, 2021, 12:02:26 PM
Post by: Groupoid on February 25, 2021, 12:33:26 PM
I have no idea what the raisins could be good for. Maybe they inexplicably accumulate to announce the arrival of horror in the comic or chapter breaks? Maybe we use them when posting our artworks, to warn the audience about gore, nudity etc.? I don’t know crunchy raisins or how you’d have to treat them to make them crunchy (candied raisins?), so I don’t think they are the crunchy bits.
Annuil, the blanket fort is an inside joke that arose in the Disqus comments. There’s a precedent to doing a check-up of the blanket fort, somewhere in the Disqus comments, with quite a lot of references to Lalli’s flashback (routine weapons inspection etc.), but I didn’t find it. There seems to have been “The Pillow Fort (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=51.0)” on the forum, but that thread is relatively old. I’m sure Jitter or Crumpite could tell you more.
There is some (ancient) thread on the forum that explains some of the inside jokes. But I couldn’t find it ’till now. Maybe I’ll find it later.
Post by: Jitter on February 25, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
Anyways it’s a recurring item in the Disqus comments which usually comes up when the team is threatened. Maybe this discussion is prompted by the ominous raisins? People keep adding to it, at some point we were talking about how the Fort is inviolable and withstands any attack, keeping Minnions within safe, and Crumpite commented that he’ll nevertheless check the Tesla coil just in case. So, the fort has a defensive Tesla coil (and occasionally also artillery) now.
Sometimes such as when the tanker troll was rolling over Lalli, there are comments such as “the Fort is taking multiple hits over several sectors, but hull integrity is maintained” so I guess it’s a bit like a spaceship too. Only it’s in imaginary space :)
Post by: Mirasol on February 25, 2021, 02:03:56 PM
There seems to have been “The Pillow Fort (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=51.0)” on the forum, but that thread is relatively old. I’m sure Jitter or Crumpite could tell you more.
There is some (ancient) thread on the forum that explains some of the inside jokes. But I couldn’t find it ’till now. Maybe I’ll find it later.
The blanket fort and the pillow fort are the same thing :) It’s an interdimensional haven and sanctuary for all Minnions, where we gather to huddle together when the comic gets too scary. Some while ago the welcome for new commenters included a long list of supplies, among them a “pass to the pillow fort”. I can’t recall when it was changed to blanket fort, may have been a misnomer by myself.
Anyways it’s a recurring item in the Disqus comments which usually comes up when the team is threatened. Maybe this discussion is prompted by the ominous raisins? People keep adding to it, at some point we were talking about how the Fort is inviolable and withstands any attack, keeping Minnions within safe, and Crumpite commented that he’ll nevertheless check the Tesla coil just in case. So, the fort has a defensive Tesla coil (and occasionally also artillery) now.
Sometimes such as when the tanker troll was rolling over Lalli, there are comments such as “the Fort is taking multiple hits over several sectors, but hull integrity is maintained” so I guess it’s a bit like a spaceship too. Only it’s in imaginary space :)
You know what all this tells me? We might need a Minnion-lore thread.
EDIT: RE inside-jokes-explaining. The only thing coming close that I know of is the (admittedly very ancient) forum-history-thread (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=297.0), which is a good read regardless.
Post by: Groupoid on February 25, 2021, 02:38:34 PM
So maybe we should ask the Fandom-Wiki (https://sssscomic.fandom.com/wiki/Stand_Still,_Stay_Silent_Wiki) whether we could adopt a page for this. Or maybe you have other ideas or find my concern negligible? (Spelling "negligible" is so weird)
Ooh, we could have fanfic/RP where there are self-inserts caring for the blanket fort and its surroundings. But that’s soo weird.
And I didn’t manage to find the thread I mentioned. Not manually, not using the search function. Grr, elusive beastie. I recall that Haiz posted in it.
Edit: By the way & slightly off-topic, I saw some Tuuri-birds posted about the time Tuuri’s death was posted by Minna, but long before her appearance in adventure 2. Is there a chance that Minna got inspired by them?
And we should include/link the explanation of "butter good".
And we might write about the term "grossling". I was once very surprised reading that term in a fanfic, because I considered it to be a term made up by fans and non-canonical (not being used in the comic). But maybe Minna used it in a commentary once.
Post by: thegreyarea on February 25, 2021, 04:19:31 PM
I see some activity in the wiki, particularly by our dear wave (wavewright62). But it looks like anyone can contribute for the wiki. So maybe it's a good time to do that :)
And there's a Glossary https://sssscomic.fandom.com/wiki/Fandom_Lingo_Glossary (https://sssscomic.fandom.com/wiki/Fandom_Lingo_Glossary) that could be a good place to put all those names. Some are already there. (The notoros are missing... but not for long, I suppose)
EDIT: I believe it would be nice if we could change the colour scheme for the Wiki... The present scheme is "a bit" too intense for my eyes. Maybe we could find something closer to the forum scheme? I don't know how that part works, tough.
EDIT 2: Sorry, I'm writing this and exploring the wiki a bit... There are admins, Nimphy and Solovei, and I already registred! :) One more SSSS thing in my life! ;D
Post by: Annuil on February 25, 2021, 04:29:50 PM
Groupoid, I was also surprised with the "grossling" term, but "butter good" is such an unforgettable joke that Minna explained under the page about the letter, that I don't know if anyone will ever forget it. (I might be mistaking, some times I feel like a real language nerd and remember weird things and jokes in the languages that I cannot even understand... some people may find it easy to forget).
Anyways, it does not hurt to make an explanation that is easy to find! ;)
Post by: Jitter on February 25, 2021, 04:47:06 PM
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on February 25, 2021, 04:50:24 PM
And we might write about the term "grossling". I was once very surprised reading that term in a fanfic, because I considered it to be a term made up by fans and non-canonical (not being used in the comic). But maybe Minna used it in a commentary once.
Groupoid, I was also surprised with the "grossling" term...Dialogue box over panel 5 here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=232); the speaker is, as you might expect, Sigrun.
Post by: thorny on February 26, 2021, 10:37:11 AM
"butter good" is such an unforgettable joke that Minna explained under the page about the letter, that I don't know if anyone will ever forget it.
Not everyone pays attention to the language jokes :) And surprisingly many people forget such important things :)
And new people sometimes join, who don't know about the jokes because they weren't part of the forum when the jokes started.
Post by: Groupoid on February 26, 2021, 02:06:59 PM
Dialogue box over panel 5 here (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=232); the speaker is, as you might expect, Sigrun.Colour me surprised. Thanks for the reference. I (must) have missed this when reading. Such references I’d expect from a wiki or glossary.
Post by: wavewright62 on February 26, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
I remember certain bits, like Frances' comments about frantically knitting socks to help her through the stressful bits; this became the Urgent Socks. The Dream Duck would have arisen after the sequence in chap 21 where Lalli & Emil fell asleep in the trash can, with people tying in that imagery with the duck in the Old Stone Bridge print, and other views of birds. The Mead-Moose and squirrel cookies and the commentary surrounding that long predate my participation, but there has been some discussion reminiscing about the squirrel cookies, right about the timne Mirasol made that awesome Advent Calendar contribution.
Post by: JoB on February 27, 2021, 03:23:13 AM
JoB does setup and the actual admin stuff. (If you can understand his discussions on the topic in the Website board, you may be competent enough to consider assisting.)Actually, no, the Wiki never had another "admin" ("bureaucrat" and "sysop" groups) than its founder, Nimphy (https://sssscomic.fandom.com/wiki/User:Nimphy_I), last edit in 2014. Installing a new admin requires that one of the active contributors goes through the process of "adopting" the Wiki - or at least that was the procedure when I last checked (back when they still were Wikia, not Fandom ...).
Which is why I can't do anything about the color scheme, which did get FUBARed by one of the changes introduced by Fandom a while ago. The background used to be a much paler orange that allowed the "W" in the logo (https://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141116183216/sssscomic/images/8/89/Wiki-wordmark.png) to be seen as more than just a relief ...
Post by: thegreyarea on February 27, 2021, 08:04:32 AM
Actually, no, the Wiki never had another "admin" ("bureaucrat" and "sysop" groups) than its founder, Nimphy (https://sssscomic.fandom.com/wiki/User:Nimphy_I), last edit in 2014. Installing a new admin requires that one of the active contributors goes through the process of "adopting" the Wiki - or at least that was the procedure when I last checked (back when they still were Wikia, not Fandom ...).That complicates things... According to Nimphy's profile the last time she was active in the forum was July 11, 2016...
Which is why I can't do anything about the color scheme, which did get FUBARed by one of the changes introduced by Fandom a while ago. The background used to be a much paler orange that allowed the "W" in the logo (https://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141116183216/sssscomic/images/8/89/Wiki-wordmark.png) to be seen as more than just a relief ...
If no one else has access to that at admin level and we don't have a way to contact her (that's why there should be at least two admins), wouldn't be better if we create another wiki, one that we could control?
I'm talking about but I never created a wiki and have no idea if it's hard or easy. But at least we would have the existing one as a starting point.
Post by: moredhel on February 27, 2021, 08:19:22 AM
Tranfserring content from a existing one to a new one can be tricky.
Transferring things without destroying at least parts of it tends to be an epic task.
It might be possible to make the transfer easier by choosing the right version of the right software but to find out the best solution can be a lot of research or try and error.
Post by: Jitter on February 27, 2021, 04:45:45 PM
Post by: JoB on February 28, 2021, 04:05:52 AM
If no one else has access to that at admin level and we don't have a way to contact her (that's why there should be at least two admins), wouldn't be better if we create another wiki, one that we could control?The main reason for me not to submit a request to adopt the SSSS Wiki myself so far was/is that I'm majorily unhappy about the way Fandom forces their updates down the throats of "nascent"/small wikis that don't have the technician workforce to deal with the fallout of that on top of trying to work on what they want their wiki to be, so I've been mulling the idea of "what if we move out?" some time ago. There is (was?) a way to download the entire Fandom-based wiki without admin privileges, but I have no idea how readily you can import that into a newly-created site.
For your reference, the wiki and this forum started roughly at the same time and used to basically have the same set of active users - until the Updates From Hell started to rain down. So, I'm pretty much still daydreaming of migrating the wiki onto the forum server, to use the same base of registered users ... but IIUC the forum's currently in a bit of an admin bind, too?
Post by: Mirasol on February 28, 2021, 08:16:25 AM
I remember certain bits, like Frances' comments about frantically knitting socks to help her through the stressful bits; this became the Urgent Socks. The Dream Duck would have arisen after the sequence in chap 21 where Lalli & Emil fell asleep in the trash can, with people tying in that imagery with the duck in the Old Stone Bridge print, and other views of birds. The Mead-Moose and squirrel cookies and the commentary surrounding that long predate my participation, but there has been some discussion reminiscing about the squirrel cookies, right about the timne Mirasol made that awesome Advent Calendar contribution.
From my digging in the very old threads of the forum I even found that apparently we used to have an entire palette of cookies, not just our Squirrelcookies. Namely: revival cookies, trollhouse cookies, triple-chocolate-cookies and cupcake-cookies.
(source: a picture, most likely from the meme-thread, that I saved on my computer after seeing it. I don´t remember who made it though, nor can I find it right now.) The context of these I don´t know, sadly.
(For some reason the entire cookie-discussion has interested me from the moment I joined this fandom, so that might be why I keep on bringing it up... ^^")
Post by: Groupoid on February 28, 2021, 04:11:34 PM
People who have baked their own squirrel cookies, what did you use for the crunchy bits?
JoB, what is the "Updates from Hell"?
Post by: Jitter on February 28, 2021, 04:19:59 PM
Post by: Jitter on February 28, 2021, 04:25:35 PM
:onni: :onni: :onni:
Post by: wavewright62 on February 28, 2021, 04:48:23 PM
They made appearances in the welcome pack for a little while but disappeared, likely because people figured out that the brown gooey bits actually weren't chocolate. *ahem*
Post by: Annuil on February 28, 2021, 04:52:40 PM
Oh btw, not really related to the current page but to current date: February 28th is Onni’s name day in Finland. Happy name day, Onni! (The other name for 28.2. is Sisu. Sadly, no name day for Tuuri or Lalli)Oh, wow, that's fun! I have read something about name "Onni" being one of the most popular names to gave a child in some year in Finland. Don't know if it's true though. Name "Lalli", on the other hand, is almost never used. Just a fun fact that most of you probably know, if you ever googled "Lalli". Lalli was one of the most famous killers in Finland :'D
:onni: :onni: :onni:
That's probably why no one uses this name for their children. I haven't googled Tuuri yet, so I have nothing to say about her.
Also, Jitter, I wanted to ask you, knowing that you speak Finnish. Do you have the keyboard on your computer (if you have a computer) with all the letters that Finnish has but regular "QWERTY" doesn't? I mean, Russian keyboard has both Cyrillic and Latin letters, so I was wondering if you guys in Finland have special keyboards too. ;)
Post by: Mirasol on March 01, 2021, 10:18:31 AM
If I recall correctly, someone posted last December a picture of squirrel cookies. I looked for the post, didn’t find it, but I came across the Minnion Memes (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=391.0) thread I’d mentioned. And at the Yarncrafter’s thread (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=299.msg27412#msg27412) I found a post mentioning many varieties of cookies.
People who have baked their own squirrel cookies, what did you use for the crunchy bits?
First of all, thank you for linking this amazing meme-thread! (We had chess-playing cookie dough? How cool is that!)
And uh... that squirrelcookie-baking (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=1137.msg174740#msg174740) would have been me, I guess. :'D
In this case I used chocolate-chips for the crunchy bits, as dark matter wasn´t available and members of my household are allergic to nuts. Tasted delicious, but was lacking a bit in the crunchyness-department.
I believe Mirasol is the current cookie chef and probably a honorary squirrel! (Or, actually, this being the internet - we don’t really have proof she’s not an actual squirrel!) But alas, the mystery of the mystery ingredient still remains :) (check the Advent Calendar 2020 thread)
He-he, "current cookie chef"? I like that! :D
Hm, from my experience during my cookie-research so far, the squirrels weren´t all that pleased with me trying to uncover their secret though... (If I ever disappear and it´s not because of school, you know what´s up!)
But still, there´s indeed no proof I´m not secretly one of them. ;)
Also, Jitter, I wanted to ask you, knowing that you speak Finnish. Do you have the keyboard on your computer (if you have a computer) with all the letters that Finnish has but regular "QWERTY" doesn't? I mean, Russian keyboard has both Cyrillic and Latin letters, so I was wondering if you guys in Finland have special keyboards too. ;)
Oh, that´s interesting! Do you then have more keys on the keyboard or can you switch modes so either the Cyrilic or Latin letters show? Because that would be a real lot of more keys.
Also happy late name-day to Onni! :onni:
Post by: Groupoid on March 01, 2021, 12:20:26 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on March 01, 2021, 02:26:37 PM
Oh, that´s interesting! Do you then have more keys on the keyboard or can you switch modes so either the Cyrilic or Latin letters show? Because that would be a real lot of more keys.
According to wikipedia this is one Finnish keyboard layout:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/KB_Finnish_Multilingual.svg/1280px-KB_Finnish_Multilingual.svg.png)
I didn't find a clear answer on how it is when you have a mixed Cyrilic/Latin Russian keyboard, probably because I didn't search that hard... The ones I found were a bit confusing, but maybe thay have to be... :)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Russian_keyboard_win.png)
Post by: Jitter on March 01, 2021, 03:50:36 PM
The Scandinavian letters are written a bit differently depending on the language. Finnish and Swedish have Ä and Ö, the corresponding letters in Danish and Norwegian are Æ and Ø. We also have Å, which is closer to O in Finnish (but is not used in actual Finnish, just in words that are actually Swedish, such as names). In my iPad Finnish keyboard, the Danish versions appear as alternatives when holding the ä and ö keys. Icelandic has some further letters, the ones shown with D and T in Grey’s example. Those are not available in my Finnish keyboard.
Post by: Annuil on March 01, 2021, 06:25:47 PM
Oh, that´s interesting! Do you then have more keys on the keyboard or can you switch modes so either the Cyrilic or Latin letters show? Because that would be a real lot of more keys.Cyrillic alphabet has 33 letters where as latin consists of only 26, so the keyboard is just a little bigger. I have layouts for both Russian and English keyboard on my laptop, they are just mixed together, two letters on one key. It's just the matter of switching the language on the computer and switching the keyboard and the language in your own head :'D It is very confusing at the beginning but I have mastered both keyboards to type with equal speed on both. ;) I bet Chinese keyboards are waaaay more complicated!
Here is a pic of my Mac keyboard (they actually make Macs with Russian keyboard!):
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsSnHPIBASO_wQxB0rl00_O2u2bT
Post by: JoB on March 02, 2021, 03:59:48 AM
JoB, what is the "Updates from Hell"?
Spoiler: rant • show
I once offered around Toll House cookies (which are an actual thing, as Americans probably know), and it was either Windfighter or JoB (probably JoB) who immediately dubbed them Troll House. (This was before we actually had the Troll House in canon, btw.)The forum search suggests these (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=391.msg28070#msg28070), three (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=271.msg22832#msg22832), posts (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=131.msg103156#msg103156) as possible origins ...
Post by: Mirasol on March 08, 2021, 12:36:41 PM
Fun stuff! That is very interesting, Jitter! I do have a Finnish keyboard on my phone, those are easily switched, I was curious about permanent computer keyboards. Very cool!
Cyrillic alphabet has 33 letters where as latin consists of only 26, so the keyboard is just a little bigger. I have layouts for both Russian and English keyboard on my laptop, they are just mixed together, two letters on one key. It's just the matter of switching the language on the computer and switching the keyboard and the language in your own head :'D It is very confusing at the beginning but I have mastered both keyboards to type with equal speed on both. ;) I bet Chinese keyboards are waaaay more complicated!
Here is a pic of my Mac keyboard (they actually make Macs with Russian keyboard!):
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsSnHPIBASO_wQxB0rl00_O2u2bT
*sneaks back into this discussion days later* Ah, I see. That´s what I meant with switching modes. Thanks for the picture! :))
Post by: Annuil on March 16, 2021, 10:57:45 AM
Random question: is it just me or did Minna's style of drawing change in the past Adventure? It became a little less neat, sort of faster. However, I feel like it started to return back to a more careful type of drawing on the last couple of pages. At least that's what I see. :lalli:
Post by: moredhel on March 16, 2021, 01:07:42 PM
Post by: Vulpes on March 16, 2021, 06:33:27 PM
Post by: Groupoid on March 16, 2021, 07:03:55 PM
Maybe Surma will turn out to be a cutesy giant bunny with sharp claws, the bunny comic having infected it. :mikkel:
And oh, how I love how Minna does the lighting & coloring. I can't imagine how she does it (choosing colors & such).
Post by: moredhel on March 16, 2021, 07:23:20 PM
I can't imagine how she does it (choosing colors & such).You can watch it on her Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/Hummingfluff/videos (https://www.youtube.com/c/Hummingfluff/videos).
Post by: thorny on March 18, 2021, 08:55:51 PM
Post by: Annuil on March 18, 2021, 10:35:24 PM
Also, thanks for your thoughts, guys, very interesting. When I read the Russian translation of SSSS, people on that website kept saying in the comments that the author of the comic got tired that's why the drawing style became so much looser. That made me feel bad, so I was wondering what do you, guys, think. I do agree with you, though. Style changes. And that is not a bad thing. Maybe one day she will return to her old style or she may not. That is totally up to her. Still interesting to muse about. :)) :tuuri:
Post by: Vulpes on March 19, 2021, 09:54:13 AM
Post by: Jitter on March 19, 2021, 04:19:14 PM
I worked out quite a few of the real world locations from Minna's "Saimaa Settlements" map for my upcoming fic. I realized there are too many to keep in mind so I made a reference map for myself. Would you like to see it? If yes, where would be a good place to post it?
There is actually a Toivosaari in the Linnasaari National Park which is the area it's located in the comic too. I only noticed today when I was zooming close enough.
I ALSO noticed that Joutenvesi, which on the map of the Known World is listed as the third largest settlement in Finland, has lost settlements only. Ouch.
Post by: JoB on March 19, 2021, 05:09:03 PM
I worked out quite a few of the real world locations from Minna's "Saimaa Settlements" map for my upcoming fic. I realized there are too many to keep in mind so I made a reference map for myself. Would you like to see it? If yes, where would be a good place to post it?I'd say that such a map would be reference material for anyone who wants to know about the canon facts of the comic (if only Minna would reliably stick to such ephemerally established facts later on), so a) yes and b) that's what the stated purpose of the Wiki is, short of case-by-case better-suited tools (like Google Maps is for recording the protagonists' itinerary).
FWIW, I did a bit of the same for the map on page 2.99 (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=99) and came up with Jänissalo for the Northernmost settlements on that map and Vasaransaari for the ones farthest to the East - with the additional criterion that I preferred names that Google Maps would have attached to only one place in Finland. While there is no good match between the in-comic locks of the Saimaa Canal (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=89) and their real-world counterparts. (In reality, the three locks on Finnish soil actually are all huddled near the lake system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saimaa_Canal#Locks).)
Post by: Jitter on March 19, 2021, 05:45:38 PM
But, alas, I don't know how to get it into the Wiki! I use the forum (and Disqus, which is NOT the place :) )
Post by: wavewright62 on March 19, 2021, 08:15:58 PM
I'm trying to find a link to the Minnion-maintained map that tracks their journey? Why am I not finding this? Last I saw, it was maintained as at landing in Finland in Adv. II.
Post by: JoB on March 20, 2021, 02:44:19 AM
I'm trying to find a link to the Minnion-maintained map that tracks their journey? Why am I not finding this? Last I saw, it was maintained as at landing in Finland in Adv. II.The Wiki('s Main Page) has a link to the old Journey Map, the one that turned unusable ... uh ... it was either lost admin access or a change of the provider's Terms and Conditions incompatible with our use case, I'm not sure anymore. Changing that to the new Journey Map (that's being referred to here in the forum and in Disqus every now and then) is one of the many many OH SO MANY updates to do to the Wiki once I get a Round Tuit™, I'm afraid ...
Post by: Jitter on March 20, 2021, 06:20:14 AM
Post by: Groupoid on March 20, 2021, 12:38:33 PM
Also, thanks for your thoughts, guys, very interesting. When I read the Russian translation of SSSS, people on that website kept saying in the comments that the author of the comic got tired that's why the drawing style became so much looser. That made me feel bad, so I was wondering what do you, guys, think.She’s probably trying to draw quicker, by leaving out details. In a stream/video, during the second adventure I think, she mentioned that it’s important to her to draw comic pages with few details, so she could draw them quicker, and drawing posters and such with more detail.
I think I like her current art style more. An important thing she did early on, was changing Emil’s face. I can’t point out what changed, but I don’t like the early Emil as much as the current one. Maybe it’s also because his personality changed.
I think her current style causes more (good) emotions in me, than her earlier style, but that’s probably also influenced a lot by how I read the comic.
Post by: MollyVampiric on March 21, 2021, 02:09:22 AM
Post by: Sevseres on March 23, 2021, 03:19:09 AM
Post by: catbirds on March 23, 2021, 03:32:42 AM
Also supposedly, she at one point considered ending the story after the first adventure, so I doubt there'll be too many loose plot threads left dangling.
Post by: thegreyarea on March 23, 2021, 08:39:03 AM
By saying “the story arc” is she saying that SSSS will be done after this one adventure with the Kade? I think she was going to continue with new adventures as long as she was into it, did she confirm that’s not happening or did I misread?
My understanding from what Minna said it that she will keep this story arc as innitialy planned, and that will be the end of SSSS.
There was a time when she had many other stories on her head and intended to keep doing SSSS for a long time. But now she seems headed in another direction, to create another project.
That made me sad. I really enjoy SSSS, and I enjoy even more this wonderful community that we have here. In some way it's a utopic place, where people respect and care each other while they politely share their thoughts and experiences. I pictured myself wandering the halls of this Forum and finding it empty and silent, and that's one sad picture.
But nothing stays forever, and we still have some time (I'd say a year or a little more). What we will do? I don't know, but I do know that I don't want to loose contact with the wonderful people that I met here. :)
Hopefully Minna's next project will be as good as SSSS, and we would be able to follow, just as some came from the ARTD time.
I'd love if she did a City of Hunger story. it would allow a completely different setting while retaining a strong connection with SSSS.
And to speak about last page: What an amazing and heartrending portrait of loss. No need for sounds here.
Butter Good!
Post by: lwise on March 23, 2021, 07:37:22 PM
My understanding from what Minna said it that she will keep this story arc as initially planned, and that will be the end of SSSS.
I feel very sad, as if my friend just received a terminal diagnosis. Of course all things end and Minna has to live her life for herself and not for us, but still ... I feel very sad.
Post by: JoB on March 23, 2021, 07:47:44 PM
My understanding from what Minna said it that she will keep this story arc as innitialy planned, and that will be the end of SSSS.That's my understanding, too, though I wouldn't be surprised if it suddenly ended at some chapter close with lots of loose ends instead ...
There was a time when she had many other stories on her head and intended to keep doing SSSS for a long time. But now she seems headed in another direction, to create another project.At one time, she mentioned having material for a handful of arcs and inspiration to keep at it for an entire worklife, if only it'd work out economically. I'm not sure she cut all of that just now, though. Anyway, she specifically announced that her next project will sit in the light of her newfound religion, so I'm not holding any hope of it being even remotely related to her earlier works.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 23, 2021, 09:01:24 PM
I am bracing myself because the end of Adv I seemed rushed, like she just wanted to get it over with. We missed out on many aspects most of us were expecting to see, like scenes at the pickup point (we got a hug from Mikkel and great joke from Sigrun, and that was wonderful, but that was all), the news broken to the HQ crew (esp Onni), and the HQ crew travel to Iceland and debrief with the Nordic Council.
Adv. II loose ends to date are fewer, but include:
-- Reynir's brother Bjarni was the only character outside of the crew and HQ to get his own introduction synopsis, which would indicate he was a major character. Why?
-- Will we see the Sentinel Mage, or his grisly cabinet, again? (esp if things turn pear-shaped for any of the crew)
-- Will Lalli get his boat 'deposit' back? (okay, that's a joke)
-- The Swan is expecting to bring back two souls to Tuonela - whose?
Things that may get glossed over in a grand rush to finish up:
-- We are expecting to see Tuuri's return to Tuonela (aside from fix-it feels), and a full culmination of the bargain made with the Swan (however it pans out)
-- We are expecting to see Ensi's fate as something other than an off-screen *poof* and/or pile of twisted flesh
-- Reynir having a point in this adventure other than a high perch for the cat to observe from
-- Sigrun & Mikkel's apparently burgeoning relationship (for the record - I'm in the camp that doesn't want to see Sigrun rendered into a housewife or other 'womanly' post-adventure role, like Reynir's sister), it would be nice to at least see if anything comes of this.
I sincerely doubt that we will ever get those portions of the overall backstory we've been holding out for. These include: the story behind the fire behind Emil's house, the ongoing effects of Lalli camping in Emil's brain, Mikkel's backstory including the fate of his twin, and *snerk* what blackmail Trond had on Captain Asa.
Post by: Maple on March 23, 2021, 09:26:39 PM
My understanding from what Minna said it that she will keep this story arc as innitialy planned, and that will be the end of SSSS.
There was a time when she had many other stories on her head and intended to keep doing SSSS for a long time. But now she seems headed in another direction, to create another project.
That made me sad. I really enjoy SSSS, and I enjoy even more this wonderful community that we have here. In some way it's a utopic place, where people respect and care each other while they politely share their thoughts and experiences. I pictured myself wandering the halls of this Forum and finding it empty and silent, and that's one sad picture.
But nothing stays forever, and we still have some time (I'd say a year or a little more). What we will do? I don't know, but I do know that I don't want to loose contact with the wonderful people that I met here. :)
(Hi, I have been lurking for months but this comment is what drove me to make an account.)
It is a little sad to think of SSSS ending, but at the same time, it's not really an end. The beauty of fandom and the internet is that it is transformative. I wouldn't be surprised to see several "What If" stories and several "After the end of the comic" stories popping up once the comic ends. Even if Minna's part in the comic ends when this adventure ends, fandom will keep the comic alive.
So while I am sad now (even if I don't expect the comic to end 'soon', I figured it would be about as long as Adventure 1 so we have a couple years yet to go), I know things will eventually be okay. And hopefully you can find comfort in that too.
Post by: thegreyarea on March 23, 2021, 10:10:28 PM
(Hi, I have been lurking for months but this comment is what drove me to make an account.)Hi Maple! It's good to have you here.
It is a little sad to think of SSSS ending, but at the same time, it's not really an end. The beauty of fandom and the internet is that it is transformative. I wouldn't be surprised to see several "What If" stories and several "After the end of the comic" stories popping up once the comic ends. Even if Minna's part in the comic ends when this adventure ends, fandom will keep the comic alive.
So while I am sad now (even if I don't expect the comic to end 'soon', I figured it would be about as long as Adventure 1 so we have a couple years yet to go), I know things will eventually be okay. And hopefully you can find comfort in that too.
You're right about the fandom. It will not end the day SSSS ends. Stories and drawings and more will be created for a long time, because the source is very good and the people on this fandom is excellent!
On one way we, creators, will have even more liberty because we won't have that little worry "what if I'm writing a story and something in the comic, like a character death, throws me completely off-canon". That was bottering me a bit* while I was setting up the continuation of one of my stories, "Lightning", that happens on Year 95.
(* Not that it's a big problem, because we always have the "what if" and "parallel universes" solutions.)
And we do have some time ahead of us! So let's enjoy it the best we can.
I wrote that just after reading Minna's statement, and I was really feeling sad at that moment. But life goes on, and your post made me feel even better, so thank you! :)
Post by: Tarnagh on March 23, 2021, 10:51:11 PM
Right now, I'm trying to work my way through all the thread topics and posts and ... there's just so MUCH here. I'm kicking myself for not joining sooner! There's so much content here it's a little confusing right now, but I'll get it sorted.
I already feel comfortable here and am certainly more chatty here than I ever was in Disqus. The Commentariat was always the nicest group of people on the whole dang internet and I feel like this place is The Commentariat, cubed. :)
Post by: thegreyarea on March 24, 2021, 07:44:17 AM
Agreed, as I read the tea leaves Adv. II is the end, whereas at one point we were led to expect 5 adventures, one in each country, specifically with Iceland being the last.I also felt that "rushed" feeling too. Adventure 1 ended and I was: What? Just that? Most important we never got to see the crew talking among each other and sharing their experiences. Damn, Lalli just blew a giant with his magic! Sigrun saw the battlefield after and was convinced no one could survive that. And yet we saw no consequences...
I am bracing myself because the end of Adv I seemed rushed, like she just wanted to get it over with. We missed out on many aspects most of us were expecting to see, like scenes at the pickup point (we got a hug from Mikkel and great joke from Sigrun, and that was wonderful, but that was all), the news broken to the HQ crew (esp Onni), and the HQ crew travel to Iceland and debrief with the Nordic Council.
Adv. II loose ends to date are fewer, but include:
-- Reynir's brother Bjarni was the only character outside of the crew and HQ to get his own introduction synopsis, which would indicate he was a major character. Why?
-- Will we see the Sentinel Mage, or his grisly cabinet, again? (esp if things turn pear-shaped for any of the crew)
-- Will Lalli get his boat 'deposit' back? (okay, that's a joke)
-- The Swan is expecting to bring back two souls to Tuonela - whose?
As for those points on Adv. II, I'm convinced that, unless Minna decides to rush to the end, we will see the Sentinel Mage (it's just too interesting a character), probably when the crew comes back from the Silent World. Eventually we may get the boat deposit scene too. And surely the situation with the Swan will get resolved because it's in the core narrative.
Bjarni... I think Minna had a place for him on a future adventure, probably the Icelandic one. But we may never know.
Things that may get glossed over in a grand rush to finish up:Those things will, hopefully, not get glossed over. It would be a pitty. As for Sigrun, I see it going the opposite way, with Mikkel assuming a house (and eventually kids) while Sigrun keeps doing what she does best.
-- We are expecting to see Tuuri's return to Tuonela (aside from fix-it feels), and a full culmination of the bargain made with the Swan (however it pans out)
-- We are expecting to see Ensi's fate as something other than an off-screen *poof* and/or pile of twisted flesh
-- Reynir having a point in this adventure other than a high perch for the cat to observe from
-- Sigrun & Mikkel's apparently burgeoning relationship (for the record - I'm in the camp that doesn't want to see Sigrun rendered into a housewife or other 'womanly' post-adventure role, like Reynir's sister), it would be nice to at least see if anything comes of this.
I sincerely doubt that we will ever get those portions of the overall backstory we've been holding out for. These include: the story behind the fire behind Emil's house, the ongoing effects of Lalli camping in Emil's brain, Mikkel's backstory including the fate of his twin, and *snerk* what blackmail Trond had on Captain Asa.
I'd love to see the backstories, but agree that now we will probably have to live with fanfics about them...
I also hope that Minna thinks carefully on the ending. We all know that a bad or rushed ending may ruin an excellent story*, and that would be a shame for SSSS.
* think Game of Thrones. It was on the top of the top, and the way they handled the end seriously damaged the story, and the franchise.
Edit: Forgot to add that Minna should write an Epilogue to properly close the story. Something that has such an outstanding Prologue must have an equivalent Epilogue.
If she does that with her usual quality, which is very high, SSSS may be seen in the Future as a reference, even a classic, which would not only be good for us, fans, but also for her career and, why not, business. (after all this is her source of income, and the chances of keeping selling books in the future would be much higher if the story keeps its (outstanding) quality until the very end).
Post by: Grade E cat on March 24, 2021, 08:31:59 AM
Post by: Vulpes on March 24, 2021, 09:33:24 AM
I'm glad this forum exists, with all its talented fan artists of all sorts. It's a wonderful world and great characters, which will continue to inspire, I hope.
Post by: Tindveden on March 24, 2021, 10:06:49 AM
Post by: Maple on March 24, 2021, 06:14:16 PM
This consoles me, too. If Minna's abandoning SSSS after the end of this arc, that leaves people free to create their own ongoing adventures as fanfic in her world. I like that idea. This is one of the few stories I've read that has me truly emotionally invested in the characters. I look forward to seeing all the myriad ways the fanbase continues the story. I might even be bold enough one day to make a contribution to that myself. :)
Right now, I'm trying to work my way through all the thread topics and posts and ... there's just so MUCH here. I'm kicking myself for not joining sooner! There's so much content here it's a little confusing right now, but I'll get it sorted.
I already feel comfortable here and am certainly more chatty here than I ever was in Disqus. The Commentariat was always the nicest group of people on the whole dang internet and I feel like this place is The Commentariat, cubed. :)
I know I personally have something in mind already, but I'm going to wait and see what happens with the comic before I go further than outline/planning it. What I have will work as a "What If?" AU, but if it fits with canon after Adventure 2 ends then I think I'll go with that route instead.
(Likewise, I'm kicking myself for not joining sooner too. I've been reading this comic for years without even realizing that there's a message board or comments.)
Post by: GMantis on March 24, 2021, 07:09:33 PM
-- Reynir having a point in this adventure other than a high perch for the cat to observe fromI thought that question at least got answered rather empathically on page 263 (https://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=263)?
Post by: wavewright62 on March 24, 2021, 07:41:59 PM
I thought that question at least got answered rather empathically on page 263 (https://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=263)?
You are not wrong! Thank you for that joggle to the memory, and welcome!
Post by: wavewright62 on March 24, 2021, 07:48:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JPPhSGO.png)
This joins a previously uploaded one, also quite usable currently:
(https://imgur.com/SdnsnoG.png)
Gosh, there's actually a whole slew that are usable, eh?
Spoiler: so many emo reactions for the week • show
Post by: thegreyarea on March 24, 2021, 08:26:11 PM
Thank you for coming to my Powerpoint presentation.Thank you, Wave, for making me laugh with your Powerpoint presentation! That last one is really well chosen. :)
[/spoiler]
Post by: GMantis on March 24, 2021, 08:50:56 PM
Post by: Vulpes on March 24, 2021, 08:53:04 PM
Post by: catbirds on March 24, 2021, 11:17:30 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on March 25, 2021, 05:05:07 AM
From the last panel, it seems that Surma, while being very sensitive to piercing sounds, is not that bad at hearing much deeper sounds as well...Yes it seems, as long as those sounds are loud enough. So now we have many variables:
What will happen in the Onni-Kade fight? Will it get interrupted or continue?
What Mama Bear will do next: Mourn her loss or climb back the hill to attack the crew?
If the bears attack and Onni is trapped in a trance while fighting the Kade, what the rest will do? Start shooting? Try to carry his body while fleeing the scene?
How fast will Surma arrive? And when it arrives what it will do? Just kill anything that moves? We still know almost nothing about it.
And while the Kade is fighting Onni can it use its powers against the others, particularly Lalli and Reynir? (and there's still the possibility that little moment with one open eye was enough to doom Onni...)
So I'm glad we will have our chapter break filler to distract us, because it will be a high cliff to be hanging on... :)
Post by: Tindveden on March 25, 2021, 07:12:50 AM
Welp, I have added a new image to the Reaction Image Hoard. I think we all feel this one this week.
(https://i.imgur.com/JPPhSGO.png)
I swear - that one almost made me levitate off my bed at one hour past midnight O_O
PS: Great presentation!
Post by: Jitter on March 25, 2021, 07:22:55 AM
What happened with the Kade, we don't know. Presumably it slipped away.
Post by: Maple on March 25, 2021, 07:25:18 AM
The law of 'Conservation of Detail' tells me that's what's going to happen at some point. Maybe that's going to be Reynir's part? Either Onni or Lalli is going to look into the eyes of the kade, and then Reynir will be the mage that breaks them from the kade's spell.
Post by: Kitty on March 25, 2021, 08:07:02 AM
why is Kade using three bears as protection, when it could just as easily be vibing around Surma.
conclusion: Surma can and would harm Kade.
Post by: thegreyarea on March 25, 2021, 08:39:33 AM
Onni is out of the dreamworld alread, see here: http://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=410Thanks! I thought it was Lalli behind Sigrun. My eyes were draw to the poor bears.
What happened with the Kade, we don't know. Presumably it slipped away.
So Lalli broke Onni's spell with his "gentle touch" :). Now, if the Kade is gone they "just" have to deal with the remaining bears and Surma... Gone is my mental image of the group carrying a dormant Onni through the woods...
...Maybe that's going to be Reynir's part? Either Onni or Lalli is going to look into the eyes of the kade, and then Reynir will be the mage that breaks them from the kade's spell.Many, myself included, see that as a likely scenario.
why is Kade using three bears as protection, when it could just as easily be vibing around Surma.Could be. But we don't know if the Kade and Surma crossed paths before. The Kade, being ethereal and therefore silent, may be unaware of Surma.
conclusion: Surma can and would harm Kade.
Post by: Róisín on March 25, 2021, 10:55:31 AM
Post by: Kitty on March 25, 2021, 11:15:01 AM
even just hands are nightmare fodder
Post by: thorny on March 25, 2021, 02:52:41 PM
I think there's just something about those hands that strikes me as an exaggeration of a thin old woman's hands.
Post by: JoB on March 25, 2021, 03:24:37 PM
I think there's just something about those hands that strikes me as an exaggeration of a thin old woman's hands."The original trait of the Finnish version of 'Red Riding Hood' is the grandmother getting eaten and still not needing anyone on the outside to cut the wolf open."
Post by: thorny on March 25, 2021, 04:18:35 PM
"The original trait of the Finnish version of 'Red Riding Hood' is the grandmother getting eaten and still not needing anyone on the outside to cut the wolf open."
Hah! I'd like to read that version -- tried finding it by googling, but failed. Have you got a good link (in English)?
Post by: wavewright62 on March 25, 2021, 04:30:15 PM
Post by: Tindveden on March 25, 2021, 05:09:18 PM
Hah! I'd like to read that version -- tried finding it by googling, but failed. Have you got a good link (in English)?
I would love to read that too, but JoB needs to write it first, I believe.
In the meantime there's always some interesting analyses, e.g.
https://owlcation.com/humanities/Angela-Carters-The-Company-of-Wolves-as-Folktale-Variation (https://owlcation.com/humanities/Angela-Carters-The-Company-of-Wolves-as-Folktale-Variation)
Post by: JoB on March 25, 2021, 05:50:08 PM
Hah! I'd like to read that version -- tried finding it by googling, but failed. Have you got a good link (in English)?
I would love to read that too, but JoB needs to write it first, I believe.... you oughta know better than to tempt me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWunj7Yw3PQ) ...
Post by: Tindveden on March 25, 2021, 06:10:42 PM
... you oughta know better than to tempt me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWunj7Yw3PQ) ...
OK, OK, you win. Peace, and food for everybody
Post by: Vulpes on March 25, 2021, 06:50:03 PM
and i wonder
why is Kade using three bears as protection, when it could just as easily be vibing around Surma.
conclusion: Surma can and would harm Kade.
Perhaps Surma is too erratic, always haring off after sharp/loud sounds. Onni describes the Kade as "weak", I know he meant mentally or in magic powers or something, but it may also be incapable of keeping up with Surma.
I know it's unlikely -- she was immune, so even if she didn't get taken into the kade it seems unlikely she could trollify -- but I've still got the idea stuck in my head that Surma might be Grandma, having managed to fight the kade off enough not to get subsumed but not enough to have remained fully herself. In which case, I'd think the kade would most certainly want to stay well away from her.
I think there's just something about those hands that strikes me as an exaggeration of a thin old woman's hands.
Yikes. That is an interesting and unsettling prospect. As you say, unlikely, but it would be quite the plot twist. But shouldn't Onni be able to sense his grandmother? Or maybe he's just assuming... and we all know what happens when you assume something, right?
Right?
Spoiler: show
Post by: Róisín on March 25, 2021, 08:34:55 PM
Post by: Tindveden on March 26, 2021, 05:47:04 AM
Peace and food sounds good to me! I knew how to do oldstyle gingerbread, but the fig rapé recipe is different to mine.
As long as we don't get the blueberry cake from Recipe swap (and other food related stuff)
PS: FYI for the rest of you: That was a silly "recipe". And in Norwegian too.
Post by: thorny on March 27, 2021, 02:56:46 PM
And what is that bright light behind the bear?
Oh well, we might find out in three weeks. Or not. I think I am going to have to keep reading long enough to get that question answered, if it's going to be.
Post by: wavewright62 on March 27, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
I think the light behind the bear is just her (and consequently our) focus on the top of the cliff. She's coming back up, and she'll be loaded for bear, as the expression goes.
Post by: Róisín on March 27, 2021, 06:01:38 PM
Post by: lwise on March 29, 2021, 08:45:11 PM
thorny and Wavewright, I think both are correct. The seagull mage Vaino, if I remember correctly, refers to Surma as a troll, that is, the base form from which it developed was a human. But the name of Surma, given by humans referring to it, refers to the symbolic embodiment of violent death. There seems to be a usage of giving individual personal names to the really heavy-duty monsters, as was done for the bear beasts?
The seagull mage called it an "exceptionally nasty critter", but didn't say either beast or troll (page 167).
Post by: Róisín on March 30, 2021, 05:58:04 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on March 30, 2021, 06:10:18 AM
Therefore between beast or troll I'm still betting on troll! :)
Post by: JoB on March 30, 2021, 06:23:07 AM
Anyway from what we can see Surma looks very anthropoid, and it seems unlikely that another animal would take that shape... Unless it was an ape. (perhaps a gorilla? I wonder if there could be any on a zoo in Finland, or nearby Russia. Maybe a monkey on a lab...)Aye. It's a biped now, and thus very likely has been before its infection as well. Other details (arrangement of leg joints and spine on the hip, lack of tail, ...) support a biped/human blueprint as well.
Therefore between beast or troll I'm still betting on troll! :)
No sign of opposable thumbs, though, but except for the partially hidden right hand, it's four digits on every end, apparently. Might be Swedish. :P
Post by: JoB on April 01, 2021, 04:52:03 PM
Extra, extra, read all about it (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/unknown-disease-turns-bear-cubs-23829469) ...
Spoiler: show
Post by: thegreyarea on April 02, 2021, 03:25:34 PM
Well, would you look at that. In recent news, it seems that a contagious disease has appeared that turns bears into monstrosities with totally aberrant behaviour, eventually causing brain death.And there's this... (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/time-traveller-films-bomb-shelter-23813569)
Extra, extra, read all about it (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/unknown-disease-turns-bear-cubs-23829469) ...Spoiler: show
A bit hard to take that as a serious source...
Spoiler: show
Post by: Vulpes on April 02, 2021, 04:50:36 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on April 03, 2021, 06:38:13 AM
I don't know about the 'time traveller', but the bear thing seems to be legit - I found it covered in a number of places. Here's one (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/puzzling-illness-killing-bears-western-us-180977375/) that's considerably less over-the-top (zombie bears, pfft).Oh, but that one is written in a completely different tone! Now I can believe in the story! (thanks!)
(and of course the "time traveller" is real, but we cannot and will not believe in it because if we did the future from which it came wouldn't become real, so he would not come at all and his story could not exist... Unless we go to the "multiverse" option, where those paradoxes can fit without great trouble. :) )
Post by: Vulpes on April 03, 2021, 08:50:31 AM
Oh, but that one is written in a completely different tone! Now I can believe in the story! (thanks!)
Yes, Smithsonian mag is a wee bit less sensationalist! :haw:
(and of course the "time traveller" is real, but we cannot and will not believe in it because if we did the future from which it came wouldn't become real, so he would not come at all and his story could not exist... Unless we go to the "multiverse" option, where those paradoxes can fit without great trouble. :) )
O_o This is why I get bogged down in sci-fi that involve time travel...
Post by: Jitter on April 03, 2021, 05:09:37 PM
I also tend to get headaches with time travel, although some are very good! The best of the best is Connie Willis’ Doomsday Book. It may also be relevant to our interests as it has epidemic / pandemic too! It’s extremely impressive, but also sad, scary, chilling... not good if you feel angsty about the current pandemic, or are generally prone to get angsty by stories.
Post by: Jitter on April 04, 2021, 05:47:38 PM
Comments will be back after the break.
Post by: Tarnagh on April 04, 2021, 08:16:26 PM
BTW the new page, chapter cover for Chp 14 is up. And it looks very good and very scary!Comments appear to be back now. I'm not sure if that was deliberate on Minna's part, but they're definitely working.
Comments will be back after the break.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 04, 2021, 08:49:44 PM
Also, kudos on the best chapter cover framing device since (at that time unintroduced) Reynir's braid.
Post by: Tarnagh on April 04, 2021, 08:54:38 PM
Tough to say whether it's intentional. It still says they'll be closed until the new chapter, but since it comes after the LP promo and its stubbornly unmodified description, it may be an oversight. Or, forgetting to close them may be an oversight. Who knows?Seriously! I'm really loving this chapter page. :)
Also, kudos on the best chapter cover framing device since (at that time unintroduced) Reynir's braid.
Hopefully, everyone continues to "play nice" in the comments and it won't matter if they stay open.
Post by: Annuil on April 04, 2021, 09:22:23 PM
And yeah, that teeth-frame is very cool. XoX
Post by: thorny on April 05, 2021, 08:23:27 AM
Hopefully, everyone continues to "play nice" in the comments and it won't matter if they stay open.
Most of them at this point are on-topic for the page; but several people have come in to praise the bunny comic (by that name) without any explanation of what it's about. I'm still not going to get into Discus; but it looks to me very much like "playing nice" would amount to encouraging people to walk into it blind.
And I very much wonder whether those will be the only type of comment on the subject allowed to stay up.
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2021, 08:32:21 AM
Post by: thorny on April 05, 2021, 09:48:40 AM
However, as I said, I've stayed out of Discus so far, and expect I'll keep doing so.
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2021, 10:13:26 AM
Post by: Vulpes on April 05, 2021, 10:18:38 AM
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2021, 11:14:17 AM
Post by: SkyWhalePod on April 05, 2021, 01:26:14 PM
I well know the problem, thorny, having spent much of a long life as a woman working in male-dominated fields of science and mining, and as a Pagan woman living in a masculinist Christian society. The only answer I know is to endure, persist and never surrender, to be as good an example as I can to the young, and to hold to my own ideas of courtesy, decency and honour. And I will keep getting on the bus, and stubbornly holding my place, while trying to give others a hand up. Persistence and endurance is what I do.
*slow wave of flag with Róisín's face on it*
The sheer artistic talent demonstrated in this chapter cover is a big part of why I won't walk away from SSSS. There's so much to learn from and appreciate.
Does that umbrella feel like a Chekhov's gun to anybody else? . . . Like, maybe Surma's/the kade's only weakness is yellow vinyl (or maybe polyester, I don't know which is more likely to survive 90 years of neglect), and that will be the only thing that saves our heroes from annihilation. . . .
Post by: Vulpes on April 05, 2021, 01:45:28 PM
Does that umbrella feel like a Chekhov's gun to anybody else? . . . Like, maybe Surma's/the kade's only weakness is yellow vinyl (or maybe polyester, I don't know which is more likely to survive 90 years of neglect), and that will be the only thing that saves our heroes from annihilation. . . .
Oh yes, very much so! The other one saved Emil from the wolf-beasts, so I'm guessing this one is going to fill some similar role. (My vote is for polyester, although it would have to be very durable!)
Post by: Annuil on April 06, 2021, 01:18:43 PM
Post by: Raaffiie on April 06, 2021, 01:21:56 PM
EDIT: Not six but four, JoB has the right of it
Post by: JoB on April 06, 2021, 01:23:48 PM
Why in the world Taru asks Torbjörn to show her his foot on page 106, Adventure 1??You might want to reread this page (https://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=81). ;)
Post by: Annuil on April 06, 2021, 02:09:05 PM
Post by: SkyWhalePod on April 26, 2021, 01:11:03 PM
Post by: JoB on April 26, 2021, 03:51:00 PM
So . . . stair bears. Where bears? On stairs. Bears glare. Prepare for scares from stair bears.Who dares to bear their stares?
Spoiler: show
Post by: catbirds on April 26, 2021, 10:39:08 PM
I'm beginning to think the hotel is very alive, in the literal sense O_O
Post by: Róisín on April 27, 2021, 01:36:10 AM
Post by: JoB on April 27, 2021, 02:22:45 AM
JoB, if we want to bring the discussion of rhyming bears around to birds, did you know that as well as the obvious meaning, ‘stare’ is an Irish/English dialect word for ‘starling’?Can't say that I'm firm in all sorts of English dialects, so no, but starlings are "Stare" (singular "Star") in German, hence, consider it covered. ;)
(Also, "grüner Star" = cataract, "grauer Star" = glaucoma, "schwarzer Star" (rare) = amaurosis, not to mention the connection to glitterati, so bring your trusty machete when we get into that. >:D )
Post by: SkyWhalePod on April 28, 2021, 05:59:22 PM
Reynir: "I followed you because you're the only one who knows what's going on!"
Onni: "HOW DARE YOU ASSUME THAT GET INTO THIS OLD FOOD CUPBOARD"
Post by: thorny on April 28, 2021, 07:25:21 PM
The outside shot looked to me like some sort of commercial building; but inside we've got first what looks like some sort of sitting room with a bookcase, then a lot of individual closed-door rooms off a staircase upstairs, then a large kitchen wherever it is that Onni ran to. A hotel with a kitchen for its own restaurant, maybe? I didn't notice anything like a check-in desk, but maybe it just wasn't shown, or looks different there than I'm used to.
Post by: Vulpes on April 28, 2021, 08:12:54 PM
What was this building, anyway?
The outside shot looked to me like some sort of commercial building; but inside we've got first what looks like some sort of sitting room with a bookcase, then a lot of individual closed-door rooms off a staircase upstairs, then a large kitchen wherever it is that Onni ran to. A hotel with a kitchen for its own restaurant, maybe? I didn't notice anything like a check-in desk, but maybe it just wasn't shown, or looks different there than I'm used to.
Break Sokos Hotel Koli (https://www.sokoshotels.fi/en/koli/sokos-hotel-koli)
Post by: thorny on April 28, 2021, 09:10:11 PM
-- from the site just linked, by the way, in the context of this thread made me laugh:
Quote
Does your work team need inspiration and never ending peace
-- I'm sure they'd like that! but I doubt it's what they'll be getting.
Post by: catbirds on April 28, 2021, 09:32:08 PM
Quote
Does your work team need inspiration and never ending peace to make decisions or to spice up daily routines? Do you need to improve team spirit or do you need a burst of energy?
*shudders* I hope the hotel also provides rampaging bears.
Post by: JoB on April 29, 2021, 01:51:17 AM
*shudders* I hope the hotel also provides rampaging bears.Waxing (https://www.sokoshotels.fi/en/koli/sokos-hotel-koli/treatments-and-wellness), anyone? 8)
Post by: SkyWhalePod on April 30, 2021, 10:27:25 AM
Post by: Vulpes on April 30, 2021, 04:01:46 PM
Barricaded into a walk-in fridge thing with no immediate threat coming behind them . . . I dunno, this feels like a heart-to-heart moment between Reynir and Onni/Tuuri. It's been bears bears bears for months now, though, I can't think of what they might have a heart-to-heart about. . . . Maybe Tuuri's about to tell us a story?
Hm. Interesting point - the bears are occupied elsewhere. The gang in the pantry are bound to realise that soon enough. I hope we do get a bit of a story-time.
Post by: Jitter on April 30, 2021, 06:51:40 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on April 30, 2021, 07:26:56 PM
Post by: JoB on May 01, 2021, 02:47:33 AM
Mama bear went upstairs, but have we seen where rug-bear is?Last seen at mama's heels as she started to climb the stairs on page 418 (https://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=418), but yes, it seems to have slipped underneath the camera angle ever since. ;)
(Can you say "what if some magic carpet were sneaky and evil" ... ?)
Post by: Jitter on May 07, 2021, 03:01:44 PM
User Epimetheus (are you here as lwise?) has mentioned a couple of times already in the Disqus comments the nature spirits at Koli, which are supposedly very strong. It would be great to see Onni getting help from them. In the initial introduction to Finnish magic, spirits are mentioned as a prominent feature for the noitas, but so far we haven’t seen anything about them except for the Luontos, which are part of the person anyway and not nature spirits.
Post by: Vulpes on May 07, 2021, 04:29:04 PM
Heey, happy days, I’m getting some of the excitement back! Once in a blue moon today’s page feels like a proper cliffhanger. Also it seems likely it will be the first show of major magery since a long long time. I’m actually looking forward to this!
Ditto - plus we see Onni in his element, rather than moping around feeling out of place in Sweden or Iceland. I just hope his open challenge to the kade doesn't blow up in his face.
Post by: Róisín on May 08, 2021, 03:01:14 AM
Post by: JoB on May 08, 2021, 03:20:25 AM
In the initial introduction to Finnish magic, spirits are mentioned as a prominent feature for the noitas, but so far we haven’t seen anything about themOnni did give us a glimpse of them way back when (https://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=525), and that was in Sweden, so I'm fairly sure that "they're around", but it certainly isn't much intel to go by. I suppose that that lehto's chock full with them, if not downright run by them, though ...
Post by: Jitter on May 08, 2021, 06:05:51 AM
I once asked in a stream for an illustration or info page showing what Lalli sees when there are no grosslings around, just the normal friendly/ neutral nature spirits in a peaceful scene. But Minna didn’t find the idea inspirational then, and probably less so now so I don’t think we’ll be getting that. Still, they could come to aid a powerful noita in a fight against the even fouler unnatural evil than normal grosslings, no?
Post by: lwise on May 08, 2021, 07:42:25 AM
User Epimetheus (are you here as lwise?) has mentioned a couple of times already in the Disqus comments the nature spirits at Koli, which are supposedly very strong.
Someone else first mentioned that Koli was a place of ancient power, though I haven't been able to find that comment again. I did a web search to find information about the ancient sacrifice location and the nature spirit. It just seems to me that Minna must have brought them to that specific location for a reason, so the nature spirit should play a role in the battle against the Kade or the bears or both. My record on predicting the way the story would go is poor, however.
Post by: Jitter on May 08, 2021, 08:10:53 AM
I’m originally from Joensuu and Koli was a frequent day trip when I was a child, it is the landscape of my heart! It’s an extraordinary feature in the landscape in the area, so I figured it would probably have been spiritually important to ancient Finns, research indicates so too.
One of the important features is the Uhrihalkeama (The Sacrifice Crack) which is very close to the hotel. Quite a lot of money has been found that was thrown in there, presumably as sacrifice to some nature spirits. It’s however a bit uncertain whether this is based on an ancient custom, or more or less made up in the 1800’s when the Finnish National Romanticism movement got excited about Finnish mythology.
Whether the Uhrihalkeama is the genuine article or not, Koli, or as it was earlier called, Mustarinta*, features in folk tradition from the area as a place of power. Praying on the peaks was supposed to bring good luck in hunting. Some catch was probably sacrificed as well. The local spirits, “Mustarinnan murhat miehet” were feared and respected widely.
* Muatarinta, “the black-chested” is one of the names for bear too. Coincidence or not?
Post by: SkyWhalePod on May 08, 2021, 11:26:29 AM
To be honest, I think I might also be feeling a little hypercritical of the recent pages, possibly/probably because other people have expressed disappointment with the quality of the drawings and the story arc itself. I looked at Friday's page and thought, first, 'Oh boy, are we going to get more spirit world stuff?' and second, 'Hmm, if we're getting more spirit world stuff, I would pace this moment differently. I would give the kade a bigger panel just to Be In, looming around Onni, maybe rearing up as a background of eyes, sort of David Mack- or Dave McKean-like. This would be a good moment for some emotional tension. This feels rushed.'
(I dunno if anybody knows either of those guys. They do a lot of surreal illustrations. Frequent collaborators with Neil Gaiman. I can't say I'm a super big fan of either but they're definitely good at making you feel uncomfortable when they want to.)
But like I said, I'm hopeful that the next couple of pages will be nicely-paced with a different, spookier, more magical tone, to give us a breath from the running of the bears.
I love that the Finns among us get to feel excited again about their culture's folklore :D Fingers crossed!
Post by: SkyWhalePod on May 08, 2021, 04:49:21 PM
Spoiler: EYES AND STUFF • show
Post by: Opaque on May 08, 2021, 05:14:06 PM
Post by: Jitter on May 08, 2021, 06:10:09 PM
No, don’t! That’d be bad. I actually hate getting spooked so I’m bad for suggesting it 😔
Post by: thegreyarea on May 08, 2021, 08:34:42 PM
Use glow-in-the-dark paint and freak someone out completely!Actually doing that would be bad. I can agree. But doing that here, in the other hand...
No, don’t! That’d be bad. I actually hate getting spooked so I’m bad for suggesting it 😔
Spoiler: eventually scary if you have a vivid imagination • show
Post by: Opaque on May 08, 2021, 08:52:02 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on May 08, 2021, 09:19:32 PM
Post by: Róisín on May 08, 2021, 11:49:28 PM
Post by: JoB on May 09, 2021, 04:03:21 AM
eventually scary if you have a vivid imaginationCuuuute, glowworms. >:D
(Seriously, if you want (noticeable and) scary, you'd have to paint actual eyes and some liquid oozing out of them. Bonus points for an "are those eyes following me!?" optical illusion.)
Glow in the dark paint is good for one thing: I know a couple of kids who have night skies done on their ceilings like that.Oh, there are a couple more uses ...
(https://cdn-01.media-brady.com/store/stde/media/wysiwyg/STDE/elps/as-langnachleuchtende-sicherheitskennzeichnung.jpg)
Post by: Róisín on May 09, 2021, 05:58:54 AM
Post by: Groupoid on May 11, 2021, 03:19:51 PM
About the comic style:
Emil has never looked this fat in a long time (on p.427), maybe in the childhood-flashback he was stocky as that. (Sorry for being blunt)
I wonder how the situation develops, some local spirits pitching in would really be interesting.
Post by: Jitter on May 12, 2021, 12:57:11 AM
Post by: catbirds on May 12, 2021, 09:34:47 PM
Maybe the art style bled over from drawing 72 pages of LP in such a short time span?
Post by: Hedge on May 13, 2021, 06:51:24 AM
Post by: thorny on May 13, 2021, 11:22:26 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on May 13, 2021, 12:11:02 PM
The entire S-team is looking kind of compressed like Windy mentioned on page 426. But yeah, it’s weird. Even the trolls are looking silly rather than terrifying. Sufficiently terrifying so that I wouldn’t want to meet any of them :) But the scene is less menacing than it could be! Writing-wise it’s powerful but the cartoon-y feel of the art reduces the effect.Agreed! Compare with that sequence in the hospital on the first adventure (when Mikkel pushed the archive into the troll's open mouth). Less critters, but a lot more frightening.
Spoiler: personal ranting • show
Post by: Jitter on May 13, 2021, 02:49:05 PM
Post by: Vulpes on May 14, 2021, 06:58:50 PM
On another note, I don't think we've had a double-cliffhanger in a while!
Post by: thegreyarea on May 14, 2021, 07:17:24 PM
Or so vile they will appear in your nightmares, and Emil’s (yes, Tooth Scary I am indeed calling you vile. Sorry not sorry.)You're 100% right! To me that nightmerish vision that Lalli had in the train is still the worst (managing, at the same time, to be beautifully drawn).
grey, you are spot-on with your personal rant.Thanks. And you're right about the cliffhanger, but as Jitter said the cartoonish style softens the visual impact, making our heroes situation almost comic instead of terryfying. In line with my rant, I get the feeling that the script is well done, but the picture doesn't do justice to the text quality.
On another note, I don't think we've had a double-cliffhanger in a while!
Spoiler: more personal ranting • show
Post by: Maple on May 17, 2021, 07:56:59 AM
Agreed! Compare with that sequence in the hospital on the first adventure (when Mikkel pushed the archive into the troll's open mouth). Less critters, but a lot more frightening.Spoiler: personal ranting • show
I think you're right.
Spoiler: responding to rant • show
Post by: thorny on May 17, 2021, 11:18:51 AM
Spoiler: show
Post by: thegreyarea on May 17, 2021, 12:26:55 PM
Spoiling, more ranting:I would very much prefer less action and more thriller/horror. Also I can't wait to move to the dreamworld, to the (supposed) epic battle between Onni and the Kade.Spoiler: show
Spoiler: about the ranting, and a little more of it • show
Post by: lwise on May 17, 2021, 12:32:22 PM
However I must agree that it's not scary or horrifying at all (as Jitter mentioned before, the lack of detail/cartoonish style doesn't help) and that it adds very little to the plot, just another action sequence in a long series. And if the idea is to gross out the reader it misses by a long shot.
It will not be unnecessary if events flow like this: Sigrun, Mikkel, and Emil just fell on top of a bunch of the trolls summoned by the Kade, so they are now in the position to defend the mages. Meanwhile, Mama Bear, who would not know that this has happened, would run into BlobBlob, with the resulting battle weakening both and possibly defeating one.
Post by: thegreyarea on May 17, 2021, 01:11:57 PM
It will not be unnecessary if events flow like this: Sigrun, Mikkel, and Emil just fell on top of a bunch of the trolls summoned by the Kade, so they are now in the position to defend the mages. Meanwhile, Mama Bear, who would not know that this has happened, would run into BlobBlob, with the resulting battle weakening both and possibly defeating one.Yes, there's that possibility (that I find too optimistic) and several others that can make that fall really useful. I don't believe they landed on the kitchen, but droping back to the lower floor may allow them to avoid facing mama bear right now and, after finding their way out of the
As for mama bear x bloblob, if they meet I think she will cut through it as she would to a soap blob. (where do we place the bets?)
Maybe it's just that I'm a little tired of the constant running, jumping, falling, climbing, etc... And even that may be just subjective, since I didn't go back counting pages/weeks of this or that.
Post by: thorny on May 17, 2021, 01:44:31 PM
It will not be unnecessary if events flow like this: Sigrun, Mikkel, and Emil just fell on top of a bunch of the trolls summoned by the Kade, so they are now in the position to defend the mages.
Possible as far as falling through the floor goes; but dumping them into a batch of splashy goo is still, IMO, just in the 'let's gross out the readers' category.
When she did something similar to Emil, way back near the beginning, (if I remember right she dropped a very dead and squashy troll on top of him), it at least seemed to have to do with Emil's character in particular, as he started out way too concerned with looking neat and attractive; it was both mildly funny for that particular reason, and a way of presenting a wake-up call that, hey, Emil, that's not going to work out here. But this seems to be just gratuitous.
Post by: Vulpes on May 17, 2021, 03:09:14 PM
Post by: thorny on May 17, 2021, 05:34:57 PM
Post by: catbirds on May 17, 2021, 10:12:27 PM
When she did something similar to Emil, way back near the beginning, (if I remember right she dropped a very dead and squashy troll on top of him), it at least seemed to have to do with Emil's character in particular, as he started out way too concerned with looking neat and attractive; it was both mildly funny for that particular reason, and a way of presenting a wake-up call that, hey, Emil, that's not going to work out here. But this seems to be just gratuitous.
The thing that I've noticed is that the characters' individual quirks don't really take the stage at any point anymore, but I wasn't sure how to interpret that. Sigrun's much less stubborn and energetic, Mikkel's less of a mystery, Emil's a bit less particular about his appearance now, Lalli's less "catlike" in behaviour (as I've heard people describe him), and Reynir is less clueless, though that last one is justified. Did they just get better at working with each other? Or did the author forget about their quirks?
Post by: Suominoita on May 18, 2021, 12:33:00 AM
Post by: Groupoid on May 18, 2021, 02:15:23 AM
...I think the last scene where the personalities were shown significantly was at the lehto. Since then there just hasn't been much dialogue and gestures other than exclamations or "technicalities". Except planning how the chain is used at Koli, but that was also rather free of emotion (at least as I recall).
The thing that I've noticed is that the characters' individual quirks don't really take the stage at any point anymore, but I wasn't sure how to interpret that. Sigrun's much less stubborn and energetic, Mikkel's less of a mystery, Emil's a bit less particular about his appearance now, Lalli's less "catlike" in behaviour (as I've heard people describe him), and Reynir is less clueless, though that last one is justified. Did they just get better at working with each other? Or did the author forget about their quirks?
Change of pace and all that. I agree that the hospital or the other indoor-troll-scenes of the first adventure had a very different atmosphere.
Post by: thorny on May 18, 2021, 10:15:12 AM
As I've said elsewhere, part of what attracted me so strongly to SSSS in the first place was the depiction of a mixed-gender group of people working together without any sign that anyone was paying any particular attention to their gender; which in my experience is a thing that can and does happen, but which is rarely shown in fiction. During most of adventure 1, they were all living together in the cat tank, sleeping in the same space, taking baths in the presence of each other (this was shown explicitly at one point, Lalli takes a decontamination bath outside the cat tank with everyone else wandering around.) There pretty obviously isn't any nudity taboo for bathing, and it wouldn't make any sense for there to be one for the sauna.
And on adventure 1, we started out with a group of single people, not paired off, two apparently female (plus Kitty), and three apparently male.
But in adventure 2, what we seem to have is something more like an older paired couple, travelling and working with three younger men. Which can be seen as a different social dynamic entirely. I didn't see it that way until Lovely People, but now I'm having trouble un-seeing it -- especially when the couple used the sauna as a couple, but Sigrun didn't share it with the crew as a whole.
Post by: Tarnagh on May 18, 2021, 03:49:20 PM
I received the hardcover Books 1 - 3 in today's mail and YAY! for that but it's also a bit sad? I'm looking at Minna's art from 2015 and comparing it to the most recent pages and it's pretty obvious looking at them side by side that something vital seems to have been lost. Her commentary in Book One and her obvious love for the story she was telling is just ... gone. :'(
Post by: Vulpes on May 18, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
I'm not sure there's another thread I should be posting this in ... there are just SO MANY! Which is fine of course but I'm still wandering around a bit lost.
I received the hardcover Books 1 - 3 in today's mail and YAY! for that but it's also a bit sad? I'm looking at Minna's art from 2015 and comparing it to the most recent pages and it's pretty obvious looking at them side by side that something vital seems to have been lost. Her commentary in Book One and her obvious love for the story she was telling is just ... gone. :'(
I was moping about similar thoughts over in the Comfort Corner, and there have been similar discussions in the Future of our Fandom thread. But here is good too! I'd forgotten about all the bonus stuff in book 1, thanks for the reminder. It may make me a little sad to read it, but it's also interesting.
thorny, I also noticed (before All That about LP) the shift from them functioning as a team, with all the varied dynamics that requires, to the current setup of Mikkel and Sigrun (who seemed to be gravitating to one another at the end of A1), and the "young 'uns". And Onni and TuuriBirb, but they're both outsiders in various ways.
Also the original command structure has fallen apart, because they're doing this on their own time. They each decided to follow Onni for different reasons, so Sigrun isn't technically in charge, and often leaves decision-making to others, particularly Mikkel. Which to me is a more traditional and thus less interesting dynamic - the eldest male is in charge, ho-hum. I found Mikkel more interesting when he was subtly steering things from the background, as he was through much of A1.
I suppose you could chalk all of that up to character development, and it certainly wouldn't make sense to simply have an exact repeat of A1, but still... It's hard to put a finger on it, but it just seems off. I hope that feeling will go away, I'd really like to enjoy the rest of this story arc! I'm especially keen to know how Onni deals with the kade.
Ooh, as long as I'm blethering on... re Onni vs the kade: I was thinking it would be really interesting if he picked it apart mage by mage, like peeling layers off an onion, until he gets to the unknown mage (who probably didn't know that's what they were) who was the first to get consumed. Unfortunately, I think that's unlikely, for two reasons. First, the info page about kades (http://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=151) says that mages can be rescued "under ideal circumstances" and in "the initial stages of corruption"... although that would suggest that Onni's plan is doomed, as it's been quite some time since Ensi was taken over. Second, Onni was very dismissive of the first person (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=338) so I doubt that he would be much interested in helping them. But still, I can hope!
Post by: thorny on May 18, 2021, 07:37:29 PM
the unknown mage (who probably didn't know that's what they were) who was the first to get consumed. [ . . . ] Onni was very dismissive of the first person (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=338) so I doubt that he would be much interested in helping them. But still, I can hope!
Looking again at that page --
are we looking at that mage who was the first to get turned into the kade? Panel 3, crouched by the toilet, holding her (probably her) head, very likely in pain and confusion?
I wonder if there wasn't quite a story there. Which, I'm afraid, we probably won't get to see.
Post by: lwise on May 18, 2021, 09:16:46 PM
which is that Sigrun and Mikkel took sauna separately from the other three.
I interpreted that as the sauna not being big enough for everyone, so they split three and three: the three younger ones (Emil, Lalli, Reynir plus Reynir's hair) together and then the three older ones (Onni, Sigrun, Mikkel) together. On the other hand, I've always thought there was some attraction between Sigrun and Mikkel.
Post by: Maple on May 18, 2021, 09:26:19 PM
Also the original command structure has fallen apart, because they're doing this on their own time. They each decided to follow Onni for different reasons, so Sigrun isn't technically in charge, and often leaves decision-making to others, particularly Mikkel. Which to me is a more traditional and thus less interesting dynamic - the eldest male is in charge, ho-hum. I found Mikkel more interesting when he was subtly steering things from the background, as he was through much of A1.
It would make more sense for them to all follow Onni now, since Onni is the one who knows the area and is the main focus of all of this. Let the person with the most information lead.
Post by: Róisín on May 19, 2021, 12:39:19 AM
And I think Sigrun does just fall naturally into positions of leadership, it’s her nature.
Post by: LetsEatBees on May 19, 2021, 10:48:11 AM
For me I wondered how much of the character changes were due to a natural change in dynamics necessitated by a radical departure from Ad1, or the author just wanted to get the story over with and was getting tired of the story.
Also I have to confess that I shipped Mikkel/Sigrun since Ad1, I think that distracted me from their now slightly domestic dynamic. :-\
I wasn't that surprised to be honest Minna didn't say that there would be no romance, just that it would look like a close friendship(though not sure if that is happening here)
Post by: thorny on May 19, 2021, 12:16:42 PM
The society clearly does include couples, and I think most societies are likely to. It wasn't that I was attracted to the idea of a society with no couples -- it was that I was attracted to the depiction of a society that also showed other types of relationships between/among people of different genders, and in which pairing off was optional.
Post by: wavewright62 on May 19, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Ooh, as long as I'm blethering on... re Onni vs the kade: I was thinking it would be really interesting if he picked it apart mage by mage, like peeling layers off an onion, until he gets to the unknown mage (who probably didn't know that's what they were) who was the first to get consumed. Unfortunately, I think that's unlikely, for two reasons. First, the info page about kades (http://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=151) says that mages can be rescued "under ideal circumstances" and in "the initial stages of corruption"... although that would suggest that Onni's plan is doomed, as it's been quite some time since Ensi was taken over. Second, Onni was very dismissive of the first person (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=338) so I doubt that he would be much interested in helping them. But still, I can hope!
I like this *heheheeee* it's a wicked development, with much potential for Drama.
For better or for worse, it also puts me in mind of this image from the day everybody was editing the crew as food:
GUYS GUYS
(http://i.imgur.com/lex8Ede.jpg)
IT'S AN ONNION
I'm so sorry
Post by: thorny on May 19, 2021, 06:32:13 PM
Post by: Vulpes on May 19, 2021, 06:54:38 PM
I like this *heheheeee* it's a wicked development, with much potential for Drama.
For better or for worse, it also puts me in mind of this image from the day everybody was editing the crew as food:
Haha, wave, that Onion Onni (Onionni?) is awesome! You're quite right about the Drama. I have no clear idea of how it would work, only that it would be very cool.
Looking again at that page --
are we looking at that mage who was the first to get turned into the kade? Panel 3, crouched by the toilet, holding her (probably her) head, very likely in pain and confusion?
I wonder if there wasn't quite a story there. Which, I'm afraid, we probably won't get to see.
Yes, that was my interpretation. Wouldn't it be an incredible story, digging through the kade-onion layers and reaching her, and being able to finally, 90-odd years later, clear up her pain and confusion? As wave pointed out, much Drama potential. I've wanted to know more about this person since I first saw this page. As you say, though, we probably won't learn her story, at least not from Minna.
It would make more sense for them to all follow Onni now, since Onni is the one who knows the area and is the main focus of all of this. Let the person with the most information lead.
True, but Onni is decidedly not leading, in the sense of leadership. I'm really not sure who is - sometimes Sigrun calls the shots, other times Mikkel, most of the time all of them seem to independently be looking after whatever they're best at. Onni just wants them all to go home and leave him to his insane mission.
Post by: muidole on May 19, 2021, 08:37:57 PM
-- okay, who or what just flew past that window?
I looked at the comments and a lot of people are saying it's Surma, which makes sense. It probably got attracted by the screech of the floor troll, plus it was already tracking the crew since the cow beast incident.
I wasn't sure what it was at first either (thought it was just some random troll and didn't notice Surma's silhouette behind the window in the last panel haha)
Post by: thorny on May 19, 2021, 09:38:57 PM
Onni is decidedly not leading, in the sense of leadership. I'm really not sure who is - sometimes Sigrun calls the shots, other times Mikkel, most of the time all of them seem to independently be looking after whatever they're best at. Onni just wants them all to go home and leave him to his insane mission.
Onni appears to be coming apart at the seams, if he hasn't already done so.
He cried out to Tuuri when she died that he mustn't be alone. He then pushed Lalli away, trying to ensure that he'd be alone. He did reach out to Tuuri's ghost for help, but she's dead, and she can't stay. He tried, indeed, to take this on alone otherwise, even though it lowers his chances for success; and is refusing to lead or try to coordinate the team, even though that also lowers his chances. I don't know if this is character development, exactly; more like character disintegration.
Post by: Tarnagh on May 19, 2021, 09:54:06 PM
Onni appears to be coming apart at the seams, if he hasn't already done so.Maybe ... it's supposed to be character development for Lalli? Onni may be older and in theory a more powerful mage, but Lalli isn't helpless as a mage and he's got the added bonus of being immune. There are potentially things he is capable of doing that Onni can't because he's immune. Perhaps it's time for Lalli to step up and take some responsibility, at least in regard to the Group of Mages. Remember, it was Lalli that showed initiative in A1 when Reynir first proved he had mage abilities. Lalli was the only one who thought to have him draw up a stack of protection runes and to draw more on the ground around the Cat Tank. Everyone else in the group at that point ignored Reynir except Lalli.
He cried out to Tuuri when she died that he mustn't be alone. He then pushed Lalli away, trying to ensure that he'd be alone. He did reach out to Tuuri's ghost for help, but she's dead, and she can't stay. He tried, indeed, to take this on alone otherwise, even though it lowers his chances for success; and is refusing to lead or try to coordinate the team, even though that also lowers his chances. I don't know if this is character development, exactly; more like character disintegration.
Perhaps it's time for Lalli to take some initiative when it comes to dealing with Onni as well.
Post by: Jitter on May 20, 2021, 05:57:15 AM
I am certain the shadow thing is Surma. We saw It stirring when Mole Bear fell and Mama Bear yelled out in grief. Also Surma's claws form part of the brilliant chapter cover.
Team leadership:
I agree that the team doesn't really have a clear leadership at the moment. In theory, Lalli is the leader for everyone except Onni, because the others followed him on his mission. The mission statements are also all over the place:
- Onni wants to end the Kade and/or save Ensi
- Lalli wants to save Onni (and possibly also help him now that he more or less* knows what Onni plans)
- Emil wants to make sure Lalli doesn't die
- Mikkel probably wants to keep the kids safe and also give Onni a piece of his mind about Shenaningans (this may or may not already have happened)
- Sigrun comes with Mikkel to speed things up and make sure he comes back to Norway with her (and probably also to keep the kids safe)
- Reynir wants to Help: Help Lalli find Onni, Onni win in his mission, and keep everybody safe. And have Adventures as a Proper Mage! That is very important.
(* I think less: Lalli knows Onni intends to do something about the Kade in the Dream World but I doubt Onni has shared what it is exactly he is going to, or thinks he's going to, do).
It seems to be more or less a cascade of goals that has currently resulted for all of them trying to be done with the Kade, in order to be able to leave with all appropriate members still mostly in one piece.
I have near indefinite trust in the Power of Love, so I actually think they are also all going because that's what
Anyways, Lalli is clearly not a leader type. At least so far. When they catch up to him, Mikkel takes the lead and arranges the travel. Later, in Saimaa, it's again Mikkel who makes sure they prepare for the trip. It seems that Sigrun is making the combat-related decisions (for example to raid the settlement with the Kalmas - that was a bad call, but only because she received erroneous information) but Mikkel is managing the mission itself. Mikkel also has the best access to information as he can speak with almost everyone.
Like many of you have pointed out, Onni is definitely not in the state of mind to be a leader. I think he's a lot more powerful as a mage than Lalli could ever be, but that doesn't mean that Lalli would be useless! Lalli also has apparently unique experience from being inside another person's mind, which may prove important too.
Exorcising Ensi:
I agree that Ensi is beyond salvage in the sense that is meant on the Kade infopage where it talks about emergency exorcism. But, we still don't know what happens to the bodies of the possessed mages. So the emergency exorcism could apply to a situation where the mage's body is still viable and if it succeeded, the mage could be free and go on living. This is of course pure speculation. If it means this, then the case of releasing a mage's spirit from the Kade and letting it go to its normal death (move to Tuonela) could still be possible after a longer time. Based on what Onni bargained with the Swan, this appears to be the goal he's after in any case.
I too would love to see a proper story of the various souls within the Kade, but I'm afraid that will not be forthcoming. At least not from Minna, like Vulpes pointed out. But of course we can still hope! And imagine.
A bit of information about the Kade Minna mentioned in a stream, under cut in case someone doesn't want to know as it may or may not prove slightly spoilerific, although it's about something we have already theorized about before:
Spoiler: Kade • show
Post by: Róisín on May 20, 2021, 08:43:40 AM
Post by: thorny on May 20, 2021, 10:27:11 AM
I agree that Ensi is beyond salvage in the sense that is meant on the Kade infopage where it talks about emergency exorcism. But, we still don't know what happens to the bodies of the possessed mages. So the emergency exorcism could apply to a situation where the mage's body is still viable and if it succeeded, the mage could be free and go on living. This is of course pure speculation. If it means this, then the case of releasing a mage's spirit from the Kade and letting it go to its normal death (move to Tuonela) could still be possible after a longer time. Based on what Onni bargained with the Swan, this appears to be the goal he's after in any case.
Yes, that's the impression I've got: that it's too late to save Ensi alive, and that Onni isn't trying to do that; but that it's still possible to save her soul so she can properly finish dying and go to Tuonela - he tells the Swan that Ensi's missing, and the Swan says two souls are expected to be remitted to Tuonela, one of them being Tuuri and the other being either Ensi, if Onni succeeds, or Onni if he fails.
(Which implies that if Onni succeeds he'll live, come to think of it; though I don't think it guarantees that.)
Note the possible precedent of the people Pastor Ann saved, after a much longer period of time -- they didn't come back to life! but they died properly, and, having been Christian, went to their proper Christian afterlife.
I too would love to see a proper story of the various souls within the Kade, but I'm afraid that will not be forthcoming. At least not from Minna
The tale of the souls within the Kade would provide a nice theme for the fanfic writers?
Indeed. It seems unlikely Minna will write it; but maybe others will.
Minna might provide some further evidence to work from, depending on what she does with the rest of this story.
Post by: JoB on May 20, 2021, 02:35:05 PM
Ooh, as long as I'm blethering on... re Onni vs the kade: I was thinking it would be really interesting if he picked it apart mage by mage, like peeling layers off an onion, until he gets to the unknown mage (who probably didn't know that's what they were) who was the first to get consumed. Unfortunately, I think that's unlikely, for two reasons. First, the info page about kades (http://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=151) says that mages can be rescued "under ideal circumstances" and in "the initial stages of corruption"... although that would suggest that Onni's plan is doomed, as it's been quite some time since Ensi was taken over. Second, Onni was very dismissive of the first person (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=338) so I doubt that he would be much interested in helping them. But still, I can hope!I don't have to value an onion's outer layers or have a particular use for them to see the need to have the whole thing peeled ...
His statement that he wants to overcome the kade physically, because it's weak that way, does strongly suggest that he won't do any soul-peeling. But it also seems to contradict him facing it in the dreamworld, like he seems to do right now. Chances are that he already went through a "change of plans" phase, so why not another ...
It would make more sense for them to all follow Onni now, since Onni is the one who knows the area and is the main focus of all of this. Let the person with the most information lead.He has an information advantage WRT the kade, maybe, but not the area. Onni was a non-immune protected youngster in Toivosaari (until the survivors got picked up and relocated to Keuruu), a place that adv2 passed through (https://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=108) even before getting to Väinö's checkpoint.
(Which implies that if Onni succeeds he'll live, come to think of it; though I don't think it guarantees that.)Let's say that it would give Onni the Allfeather's permission to live, if he can fit that achievement onto his adventurous plate as well.
Post by: Vulpes on May 20, 2021, 07:13:02 PM
Post by: lwise on May 20, 2021, 08:24:38 PM
Post by: thorny on May 20, 2021, 09:04:35 PM
And it's interesting that we still haven't been shown what Surma looks like. Some kind of reveal coming there, I expect. Minna's not usually shy of giving us a good look at her monsters. -- are those eyes in the background, or just some of the flying bits and pieces?
(In other and entirely off-topic news: I just accidentally breached my treaty with the wasps and got stung for it. I pinched one between my arm and body without realizing that it was there, until the sharp pain in my arm made its presence clear. Further escalation, however, can almost certainly be avoided.)
Post by: wavewright62 on May 20, 2021, 09:15:33 PM
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/432816a5ded3257e1f580eb1a148144f/tumblr_inline_nlmp25SDeJ1r2g2kx_500.png)
Post by: catbirds on May 20, 2021, 10:20:03 PM
I guess the one good thing about the use of small panels is that it makes the action seem appropriately fast-paced. I know some people bemoaned the loss of the wide, empty panels spanning several pages earlier, but for me the past few days have been decently quick...
On the talk of Kades: I'm pretty sure the salvaging that was stated on the info page would've only been useful back when Ensi still had a human form. As funny as it would be to maybe somehow end up with one mage-soul being the puppeteer for the entire Kade, that's probably not where the story is going and there isn't really a body for the mages unless they unionized in the Kade. If there is some way to restore Ensi to her now over-95-year-old frame, then that'd be neat either way, but as someone pointed out, the swan wants two souls. I'll not get my hopes up :P (The only thing that would leave a bitter taste in my mouth would be if Onni were to D-word.)
I think Jitter already covered most of this pretty accurately. Either way, I'm more familiar with the concept of a soul needing some body to return to as one of the hard rules in stories of the more magical sort. Not that this necessarily applies to Finnish mythology or folk beliefs.
On the new team structure: I've been re-re-reading adventure 2 and I managed to recall being really hopeful for a real friendship-based team when it started. It felt like one of those "weeeeeellll... Reynir's going and Mikkel's going... I might as well go too just to be safe, definitely not because I care :)" kind of situations because the crew would probably sooner eat a box of worms (http://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=94) than openly admit to caring about each other (in a good way!!). Mmmmmaybe I was wrong since they don't really interact outside of practical conversations now, but y'know, friendly group that sort of has a concept of leadership left over from the first adventure would have been fun.
Post by: Róisín on May 20, 2021, 11:04:39 PM
And thorny, that was bad for you and the wasp! We have dauber wasps on the wall of the back verandah at my place. I hang my washing there, so have to be careful to not bring any wasps inside folded into the washing. I certainly would not want to kill them!
Post by: thorny on May 20, 2021, 11:31:12 PM
Post by: Groupoid on May 21, 2021, 01:55:53 AM
And no, I don't like the violence.
Post by: Tarnagh on May 21, 2021, 03:31:34 AM
I'm super embarrassed that I never figured this out until now. Feel free to point and laugh, for everyone who already knew, but I just realized that Ensi was the baby that Aino Hotakainen was pregnant with in the Prologue, Year Zero. I think I may have missed this family tree page when I read the story through online.
http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=629
Post by: Jitter on May 21, 2021, 03:38:48 AM
Post by: Jitter on May 21, 2021, 03:41:01 AM
Post by: Tarnagh on May 21, 2021, 03:49:01 AM
I’m sure no one is laughing, let alone pointing! But yeah, I believe it’s fairly widely known :) I have looked at the family tree page for dozens of times (I’ve written several little fanfics qbout the prologue characters) that it’s never occurred to me someone has not seen or registered that page!I'm clearly just having a colossal derp moment. :) I never really thought about how *OLD* Ensi is/was, and put those two pieces of information together before. I must have missed the family tree page - or simply forgotten it because my brain does that to me sometimes.
Speaking of which: I also asked Minna whether it’s safe to assume only the branches leading to current main characters are shown. I.e. that Kaino for example could have had children. And she said yes, not everyone is shown there.I do think that's cool. Maybe there's still a chance of meeting some of the extended family.
Post by: Vulpes on May 21, 2021, 11:32:58 AM
It seems to me that we will get the story of the Kade. <snip> Also, narratively, Mikkel asked who the Kade was originally and Onni arrogantly dismissed the question, so naturally the question must be very important.
That is an excellent point, and demonstrates my lack of understanding of story-telling! :'D I'm far too apt to dismiss things as unimportant, but you're right, the fact that it was discussed is probably significant. I was seeing it as merely a way to establish Onni's confidence in his ability to defeat the kade, but he could have said that without us being shown the original mage, which suggests that they're important.
<snip>
On the talk of Kades: I'm pretty sure the salvaging that was stated on the info page would've only been useful back when Ensi still had a human form. <snip>
I think Jitter already covered most of this pretty accurately. Either way, I'm more familiar with the concept of a soul needing some body to return to as one of the hard rules in stories of the more magical sort. Not that this necessarily applies to Finnish mythology or folk beliefs.
Oh, I didn't think Ensi was going to end up alive after all this time! I had misunderstood the time-limit mentioned on the kade info page as applying to any type of rescue, i.e. if it's not fairly soon after being corrupted by a kade, forget about getting the soul free. Which, on reflection, makes zero sense, because Tuuri would know that and would have tried to talk Onni out of trying, rather than agree to help.
Post by: lwise on May 25, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
Post by: Opaque on May 25, 2021, 07:03:04 PM
Edit: Wait, it's fixed. It was just a temporary problem but keep a look out for more like that.
Post by: lwise on May 25, 2021, 07:08:51 PM
Phew! I was getting scared, there, for a minute.
Post by: Jitter on May 26, 2021, 07:09:27 AM
Post by: Maple on May 26, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Is anyone besides me getting a 404 error for the comic as a whole?
I can see it.
Also, that Surma sure is terrifying. I wonder if it can see though.
Post by: catbirds on May 26, 2021, 11:50:25 AM
It probably senses you somehow. No sight needed when you're on multiple planes of existence.
Post by: Jitter on May 26, 2021, 01:16:23 PM
@JoB also made the interesting point on Disqus, that if it really lacks eyes as seems to be the case, could this mean the Kade can’t take control over it? I have a feeling we may yet learn this!
Post by: Vulpes on May 26, 2021, 01:57:32 PM
I just don't know what to make of this one. How did it even end up with concrete on... in... instead of its head? And how is it so BIG? O_O
Answers will be forthcoming, I hope!
Interesting point by JoB, re no eyes thus no kade control. I hadn't even considered the possibility, figuring that anything trollified would have so little self left that it wouldn't be susceptible to the kade, but I suppose... kind of a sobering possibility, actually.
Post by: Tarnagh on May 26, 2021, 04:06:54 PM
Reinforced concrete where its head should be?? O_oMy current theory on Surma's head: At some point during the early process of this person's trollification, someone tried to kill them by smashing their head in. It didn't quite kill them and Surma ended up developing into a full troll around that chunk, incorporating it into the new form. Either that or it was just in a very unfortunate position when a large piece of rubble fell on them, to the same effect.
I just don't know what to make of this one. How did it even end up with concrete on... in... instead of its head? And how is it so BIG? O_O
Answers will be forthcoming, I hope!
Interesting point by JoB, re no eyes thus no kade control. I hadn't even considered the possibility, figuring that anything trollified would have so little self left that it wouldn't be susceptible to the kade, but I suppose... kind of a sobering possibility, actually.
I do hope we have a chance to find out for sure although I don't know how likely that is. After 90+ years, I don't think we're getting a "Surma POV on How This Happened."
I really like the idea that the kade can't take it over because it lacks eyes.
Post by: JoB on May 26, 2021, 06:23:28 PM
Post by: Vulpes on May 27, 2021, 10:07:34 AM
FYI, page 436 went up, author comment and all, but has apparently been entirely removed - first the image, now the author comment - again. :-? Only the starting Disqus comments remain ... for now. (Yes, the image file is gone from the directory, not just inaccessible somehow.)
It was Hivework's fault, she posted an explanation. Whew!
Post by: Jitter on May 27, 2021, 10:47:43 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on May 27, 2021, 11:46:07 AM
Update: the new page was posted (you're not crazy if you saw it), but Hiveworks started a server move/upgrade right after so the page vanished. I'll repost it once they've finished everything and give me the new FTP password and stuff.
So it's all ok we just need to wait. :)
Post by: Jitter on May 27, 2021, 06:28:19 PM
Spoiler: cliffhanger • show
Post by: Vulpes on May 27, 2021, 08:04:56 PM
Spoiler: cliffhanger • show
Spoiler: show
Post by: Jitter on May 28, 2021, 01:48:16 AM
Post by: JoB on May 28, 2021, 02:11:11 AM
Maybe we should dig up the Cliffhanger Challenge thread :)
Meantime, somewhere else in Finland ...
... Väinö is sweeping the floor in his abode and stands dangerously close to his filing cabinet, events elsewhere threatening to have its doors come blown clean off.
Post by: catbirds on May 29, 2021, 12:16:24 AM
I didn't expect Surma to just sit down and contemplate life, though. It probably moves by detecting loud sounds, then? Since Emil, Sigrun, and Mikkel were in its line of "sight" when it entered through the window and its first response was to the bear's loud roar. This must be the stealth sequence, so good luck Sigrun :)
Post by: Vulpes on May 30, 2021, 06:57:52 PM
<snip>
I didn't expect Surma to just sit down and contemplate life, though. <snip>
Me neither, and yet again, Minna has managed to make me feel sorry for a hideously deformed creature that would slice and dice the main characters without... uh... I was going to say "without batting an eye", but I guess that's a given... without a moment's thought... uh... similar problem, is there thought going on there at all... aaaah... how about without the slightest hesitation? Yeah, that works! :'D
Surma looks so despondent, sitting there waiting for the next loud sound to deal with, and I can imagine a little fragment of whoever this was wishing they could stop, and finally rest.
Post by: thorny on May 31, 2021, 09:54:54 PM
That might turn out to be for the best, though.
Post by: Maple on June 03, 2021, 12:07:19 AM
My bets are on Onni looking the Kade in the eyes and being infected, and that sets off a time limit for them to vanquish the Kade before Onni is lost.
Post by: Tarnagh on June 03, 2021, 12:09:52 AM
Post by: Róisín on June 03, 2021, 02:28:58 AM
Post by: Suominoita on June 03, 2021, 05:23:56 AM
Also, I don't think Onni was originally planning to defeat the Kade, merely to get Grandma Ensi out of it. Lalli and Reynir being there might have brought a change to that part though.
Even if they do defeat the Kade, they still have Surma, two bears and several wormlike things to deal with; some of them may get to the mages' bodies while they're comatose. There is some hope that Reynir might not go into coma since Icelandic magic is different.
Post by: Jitter on June 03, 2021, 09:20:45 AM
Speaking of which, Reynir* has learned a neat trick: being able to fall asleep (or perhaps attain a sufficient trance) despite being separated by merely a 90-year old freezer door and window from a horde of grosslings!
* the same applies to the other ones, but they have been (more or less) properly trained, and accessing the dreamworld when needed is probably included.
Post by: thorny on June 18, 2021, 08:35:54 AM
Post by: Alkia on June 18, 2021, 06:24:12 PM
I thought that was the bear at first, and was wondering how she got in there, and whether she was also roaring in the waking world. But it's the luonto lynx.
That makes me wonder wether the bears could have souls/luonto-type things that show up in the Dreamworld-- I know the whole "condition of the soul" thing for infected mammals, but maybe the bears are different because they're slightly more magical? Could their relation to the Kade give them shape in the dreamworld?
Anyways, what I was also going to say: I know there's been discussion of the change in Minna's art style before (I don't remember wether it was on this thread or somewhere else), and the point to be made that it has become less meticulous and meticulously detailed over the years, especially recently, but I kinda like it! I mean, I love that incredibly detailed, more complex of earlier times, but I think the gradual change has made the current style more... fluid? Expressive? Dynamic? I was looking at this most recent chapter cover specifically and admiring the lines in our three Mages and all the swooshy patterns and colors. It all looks more fast and I really like it!
Post by: catbirds on June 18, 2021, 07:27:48 PM
Anyways, what I was also going to say: I know there's been discussion of the change in Minna's art style before (I don't remember wether it was on this thread or somewhere else), and the point to be made that it has become less meticulous and meticulously detailed over the years, especially recently, but I kinda like it! I mean, I love that incredibly detailed, more complex of earlier times, but I think the gradual change has made the current style more... fluid? Expressive? Dynamic? I was looking at this most recent chapter cover specifically and admiring the lines in our three Mages and all the swooshy patterns and colors. It all looks more fast and I really like it!
:P Yeah, I don't know why, but I think the bits in the dream world suit her art style really well. To be clear, IIRC she uses a texture overlay to get the sort of watercolour-y effect and the dream world's more abstract and abyss-like appearance suit a more fluid and rough art style. It's still fun to look at, if only sometimes strange when applied to modern architecture. I think my favourite parts of SSSS were the nature and dream world bits anyway!
Spoiler: opinions opinions • show
Post by: thorny on July 05, 2021, 08:56:58 PM
Shouldn't Sigrun be paying more attention to falling properly so as to have some chance of surviving the fall, instead of to being annoyed that neither bear nor Surma has noticed them yet?
Sigrun, do what cat!
Post by: Groupoid on July 09, 2021, 01:28:36 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on July 09, 2021, 06:04:43 AM
Did the Kade digest the soul-bird of Ensi (or someone else)? We have no confirmation yet, that the glowing ball of goo is related to Ensi, I think.No, we don't. Yet something attracted Tuuri to that particular place. Perhaps some spiritual sixth-sense? Anyway I'm really enjoying the way we readers are being juggled from one cliffhanger to the next. :)
Post by: LetsEatBees on July 09, 2021, 09:57:00 AM
Now I have to know where this is going, things could either get really weird(in a good way?) or really dumb.
P.S. Literally burst out laughing when I saw the typo! Even funnier is Minna gives no indication that it ever happened! :)) Lol
Post by: Jitter on July 09, 2021, 12:31:25 PM
About the other half of the team, I’m sure Surma didn’t just die of a fall caused by itself? Right? That would be so anticlimactic. So I’m going to assume it’s just knocked out for a bit, and will emerge to pester the warriors hanging from something or other.
Post by: Annuil on July 09, 2021, 11:00:40 PM
Post by: catbirds on July 10, 2021, 12:39:48 AM
It does kind of feel like the other half of the team isn't doing much at the moment, but a number of arcs in SSSS have been resolved in kind of strange ways that don't really involve actually killing the Big Bad, y'know? Like when Lalli and Emil fell asleep in the trash can after the weird long spider attacked the dusklings or when Reynir helped the pastor do the job instead of Vanquishing the Horse on his own.
Also, Bees, I also saw the typo :P It made me laugh a little bit
Post by: Groupoid on July 10, 2021, 03:22:59 AM
I wonder, if Ensi can still be found inside the Kade, what about the other people (like Hilja)? I'd be surprised if Ensi had a special place/behaviour. Maybe the Kade will in the end separate into the souls of the different people that make it up.
Or there might be some finnish folklore about dealing with a Kade that applies.
Post by: Jitter on July 10, 2021, 05:52:45 AM
Catbirds, I don’t feel like this situation would be comparable to either the notoros or Pastor Anne, although obviously this is an opinion only.
The notoros were an extremely major threat, but they appeared by “chance” (more or less a random encounter) and happened over one long scene. Or maybe two, but still. And the giant didn’t appear by happy accident, Lalli woke it up with the small charges he threw. So to me it was more “the main threat of overall dangerous environment is almost realized by the notoros but Lalli’s action to use the environment against the most immediate threat saves the day”.
Pastor Anne on the other hand did the job on the murderghosts, but getting them to her took decisive effort from Reynir. Surprisingly decisive, he seems to largely be happy to just go with the flow. But getting to the church he trusted his instincts against Onni’s advice, bullied Onni to meeting Anne and disobeyed Mikkel’s direct order to not stray from the road. And there was build-up with Reynir’s visions to indicate the church would be instrumental in the solution of the ghost problem.
So, in neither case the solution just dropped out of the blue. Btw I would be happy if the bears and Surma were resolved by the team getting them to fight each other. But if the long time mystery threat Surma comes face to no face with the team purely by accident (falling through breaking floor into the Shrieking Blanket’s lair) and pretty much directly after arriving gets inadvertently slain by itself, again by accident… anticlimactic! Although on could also argue it goes to show how unstable the environment and the situation are, and how foolhardy the team who would definitely had died if no for the fortunate accident. Just not my personal preference.
Post by: lwise on July 11, 2021, 10:48:39 AM
Post by: Richard Weir on July 11, 2021, 11:15:36 AM
Is SSSSComic.com offline for others as well?
Me too! And it's offline according to several "is it offline" websites. :( I am pretty sure it was up as of 12 hours ago (UTC 03:00) but not since UTC 12:00.
Post by: Opaque on July 11, 2021, 11:15:50 AM
Post by: lwise on July 11, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
Post by: catbirds on July 12, 2021, 02:51:13 AM
Catbirds, I don’t feel like this situation would be comparable to either the notoros or Pastor Anne, although obviously this is an opinion only.
Yeah, this situation does kind of feel like a bunch of coincidences coming together and feels pretty troll-driven, I guess that's the major difference you're talking about? I'm not sure, but the adventure has been quite a high-speed chase recently. I get what you're talking about, though.
I have a tendency to just forget story events unfortunately (no matter how much I CareTM) so it's hard for me to be specific especially in such a long webcomic, but I think SSSS does tend to resolve conflicts in "unconventional" methods as in the protagonists don't win after some long action sequence. But I'm not sure how much like... most mainstream apocalypse/action stories can be compared to webcomics. They probably have to be a bit more creative with their solutions because every major troll they encounter is different and the goal from the onset was never to actually Fight Trolls (At least in the first adventure, they wanted to get books quickly and Not Die, and in the second one I think it was to get Onni?). And many people have pointed out that SSSS is not a typical apocalypse story that takes place immediately after the catastrophe.
The situation where they sneak away while Surma and Bear duke it out would also be "unconventional," but maybe just not as engaging. The exception is if this isn't actually the Main Fight in the physical world, but it feels like it's supposed to be! What other trolls are there, even? I didn't clarify this, but this is also just IMO and I'm probably forgetting several vital details either way :P
Post by: Jitter on July 12, 2021, 07:46:25 AM
So I’m definitely not hoping for an epic fight scene team warriors vs Surma! If they were to win such a fight, it would most definitely be unbelievable beyond suspension of disbelief. All large trolls have been taken down either by material or magic explosions, and even then mostly inadvertently e.g. by blowing up the entire building to kill Tooth Scary (and, almost, Lalli as well). So, I fully expect that Surma will die because of a fall or things falling on it, or somehow become killed by the Kade. Or maybe they will emil it. But in any case it would make for more satisfying storytelling, if the team actually played some part in it :)
Post by: thorny on July 12, 2021, 09:07:55 AM
Catbirds, I agree with you that in SSSS conflict resolution tends to be something else than protagonist fighting until splendid victory
Which, it occurs to me, is one of the things I've liked about it.
Post by: moredhel on July 12, 2021, 09:12:20 AM
Post by: lwise on July 12, 2021, 11:15:32 AM
Post by: Buteo on July 12, 2021, 07:43:01 PM
Post by: Jitter on July 26, 2021, 05:37:03 PM
Post by: Jitter on August 04, 2021, 04:51:15 PM
But, Minna says the chapter is ending (ends today? Or tomorrow?) I’m sad that there seem to be no info pages any more :onni:
Post by: catbirds on August 05, 2021, 12:25:53 AM
Reading this page actually made me quite sad. I mean, put it out of its misery, maybe, but the bears acted like a family and I couldn't help but think of them as one... [sniffs]
Post by: JoB on August 05, 2021, 01:28:19 AM
But, Minna says the chapter is ending (ends today? Or tomorrow?) I’m sad that there seem to be no info pages any more :onni:... so, "infaux pages" chapter break filler?
Spoiler: show
Post by: Annuil on August 05, 2021, 01:23:53 PM
Post by: Jitter on August 05, 2021, 04:41:40 PM
Also :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Post by: thorny on August 05, 2021, 10:59:58 PM
And poor Mama Bear.
And I don't think Minna's interested in her worldbuilding any more.
Post by: Annuil on August 05, 2021, 11:24:12 PM
Though I do think she planned Surma and other “villains” beforehand, since they’ve been part of the comic for a while, those, at least, should be developed as far as world building goes. Maybe it’s not time to explain things yet.
I’m not ready to give up hope :))
Post by: wavewright62 on August 13, 2021, 06:53:48 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on August 13, 2021, 10:06:53 AM
This is coolest chapter cover I've seen in an age. The red bird in the distance intrigues me: while it could represent Onni, or The Swan, I think it's Väinö, or specifically one of the lookout gulls he works with. So, who needs an exorcism?Also loved the cover! To me it represents the Swan going away and, after it, a very small white soul bird, that I hope would be Ensi's soul. :)
But the idea of a deus-ex-seagull intervention sounds nice too!
Post by: Jitter on August 13, 2021, 11:16:42 AM
And I love the Ensi / crane / kadeling. It would be so beautiful if it weren't for the eyeball. Even with that it's otherwise lovely. Ok the blackness may represent the Kade's essence, but it sure looks beautiful!
Post by: Suominoita on August 13, 2021, 03:21:03 PM
Post by: Jitter on August 13, 2021, 04:53:33 PM
(Content warning: nature is nature)
Post by: JoB on August 15, 2021, 03:02:00 PM
And I love the Ensi / crane / kadeling. It would be so beautiful if it weren't for the eyeball. Even with that it's otherwise lovely.Agreed, I like them better without (http://arbreauxherons.fr/en/a-shared-project/). 8)
Post by: Jitter on August 15, 2021, 03:45:26 PM
Post by: Buteo on August 15, 2021, 08:46:58 PM
Post by: JoB on August 16, 2021, 02:27:07 AM
”… that will allow passengers to…” Passengers!? No way!Well, all I can say is that the engineers behind this project do have experience with passengers on steampunk animals (https://www.lesmachines-nantes.fr/en/discover/the-grand-elephant/).
(I have to admit, though, that "a circular flight at 42m above ground" sounds like the trajectory of a rollercoaster or crane(!) boom, rather than an untethered flight.)
Post by: Annuil on August 26, 2021, 04:23:35 PM
Post by: Róisín on August 26, 2021, 04:52:09 PM
Post by: moredhel on August 26, 2021, 05:04:58 PM
Post by: Annuil on August 26, 2021, 09:06:27 PM
Though I start hating the swan, I just re-read the scene with Tuuri’s meeting with her and cried again (for the 100th time), I literally cry every time I reread it, and the Swan showing up never ends well. Even though it makes the scenes look so beautiful, telling without words :onni:
Post by: Groupoid on August 27, 2021, 01:52:38 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 27, 2021, 04:36:36 AM
Post by: thorny on August 29, 2021, 08:40:42 PM
All its component souls are certainly overdue.
Post by: JoB on August 30, 2021, 02:29:04 AM
I wonder whether Reynir's about to ask the Swan to take the kade?Sure good that souls do not increase/multiply with time. Imagine The Swan replying "Oh no, that is a long-term investment of mine ... the interest rate is to die for!"
All its component souls are certainly overdue.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 30, 2021, 03:19:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OlbOKJi.png)
Post by: JoB on August 30, 2021, 06:22:22 AM
"... I m coming to visit my favorite punctuation mark shop, actually."
Post by: thorny on August 30, 2021, 09:05:52 AM
Post by: Jitter on August 30, 2021, 10:56:05 AM
Post by: catbirds on August 31, 2021, 12:54:52 AM
Also, her funny little feet when they're under the water... four toes? Sure! (They look a bit like paws lol)
Regarding the missing apostrophe - that, and Minna hasn't fixed Emil's little overflowing text box a few pages back. Maybe she's in a rush to draw pages or something. She did mention running out of buffer, even though that was before the chapter break.
Post by: tehta on August 31, 2021, 02:35:32 AM
I am very happy that the Swan is not there to solve all their problems. But a bit sad that I no longer need to worry about Lalli, because I enjoy worrying about fictional characters. (Reynir's different religion meant I was never worried for him in the first place.) I can maybe still worry about Onni, at least?
Post by: wavewright62 on August 31, 2021, 04:14:35 AM
Feeling worse yet?
Post by: moredhel on August 31, 2021, 04:29:24 AM
Reynir's different religion meant I was never worried for him in the first place.Maybe the swan is a fan of syncretism.
Post by: tehta on August 31, 2021, 05:06:38 AM
Feeling worse yet?
Only a bit... because I don't think any of that will happen. (Except maybe to Onni, like I said.)
The whole team becoming some sort of kade/giant thing is an interesting thought. That way, they would always be together, to go on new adventures! Even if those adventures are just 'finding some Finns to eat'.
Post by: Jitter on August 31, 2021, 05:15:19 AM
Post by: Buteo on September 01, 2021, 04:40:29 AM
I just recently put a few things together: Sigrun's repeated desire to finish this 'side quest' up and go home; her suggestion in Adventure I that the crew should go say 'hello' to the Chinese survivors who might be found in the Asian mountains (until Mikkel told her the tank would take ten years to get them there); and something Minna said somewhere quite a while ago about having an idea for a long journey for our heroes.
What if this added up to Sigrun never getting home again (losing interest in doing so because she got word her parents were dead?), and all of them taking off in a newly-acquired vehicle on a journey to the East? They might run into Russians, Chechens, Uighurs, [insert other central Asian peoples], eventually actual Chinese...?
Post by: thorny on September 01, 2021, 08:28:10 AM
Minna was never going to do that story; at least, not after fairly early on, when she had Emil make a racist comment about Chinese and the comments section blew up on her. She said then, basically, that she just wasn't ever going to discuss non-Nordic peoples again, rather than learn how to do so.
(The comment wasn't Emil being deliberately racist; he was just being ignorant. Minna may also have just been being ignorant to start with, but she handled it IMO extremely poorly.)
But, yeah. I expect she was, originally, going to do a story about Emil and the fire. It doesn't make any sense to have had that in there otherwise. She came back first to the assorted hints about something hunting Hotakainens (I think I spelled that wrong) and Grandma's one mistake; and that, unfortunately, is as much of the characters' backstories as we're ever going to get.
Post by: Annuil on September 02, 2021, 10:25:07 PM
Post by: tehta on September 03, 2021, 01:37:03 AM
Post by: Annuil on September 19, 2021, 11:01:18 PM
Post by: Jitter on September 20, 2021, 01:40:17 AM
Post by: Annuil on September 20, 2021, 03:18:42 PM
Post by: thorny on September 20, 2021, 11:22:06 PM
Post by: JoB on September 21, 2021, 02:20:21 AM
So -- are they climbing (now swimming) around inside the kade? (Their and its spirit selves, anyway.)Well, however "real" their magescape-side perception is - yes, precisely that.
Post by: thorny on September 21, 2021, 10:11:23 AM
Post by: JoB on September 21, 2021, 12:27:03 PM
Maybe that's why it was itching.If you're referring to the actual "itching" incident (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=458), that one happened when (and apparently because) only Tuuri was present (and doing some Open Boil Mining) inside the kade.
Post by: thorny on September 21, 2021, 03:42:08 PM
It's because Tuuri's presence made the kade itch that I thought of it, though.
Post by: Groupoid on September 22, 2021, 05:34:32 PM
I noticed a few weeks ago (after a chapter break) that Minna's drawing style left the realms of round bunny faces and returned to the "usual" style of SSSS.
Post by: wavewright62 on September 22, 2021, 05:42:47 PM
Post by: thorny on September 22, 2021, 07:10:49 PM
I wonder how & why the inside of the Kade is arranged like this.
I've been wondering that too.
And they don't seem to have seen any of its absorbed beings; though Tuuri saw them when she was inside, and most of them went back in.
But it's the dreamworld, so I suppose things can be strange like that --
Post by: wavewright62 on September 22, 2021, 10:45:33 PM
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/43526092d49c188f3a1a2a02667ded04/tumblr_nlzyyrV1MZ1r6soqlo3_400.png)
...a Rubik's cube. Turns out that kade was always envious of those who could solve them.
Post by: Grade E cat on September 27, 2021, 11:40:14 AM
Post by: tehta on September 27, 2021, 12:25:24 PM
I think Lalli should be the one climibing onto the eye. He's an expert eye-poker, after all.
Agreed.
Alternatively, he could use Reynir as a poking stick.
Post by: catbirds on October 03, 2021, 11:43:15 PM
Post by: thorny on October 07, 2021, 09:59:03 PM
I mean, Minna could give us lots more pages of adventures as our team (or the survivors) make their way back out of the wilderness to the Known World, tie up bits of loose ends, give us some idea what they're going to do next.
Or she might not. Swan sorts things out, story's done --
Post by: catbirds on October 08, 2021, 12:21:37 AM
I hope the ending at least has a bit more of a focus on exploring everyone's personal lives and their futures. Adventure 1 ended in a way that would've been pretty unsatisfying in terms of character development if we didn't know we'd have the beginning of Adventure 2 to look forward to, but now that we know Adventure 3 won't be a thing, I really want to see a little bit more of their regular lives when this one ends.
But maybe it's too soon to think about that!
Post by: tehta on October 08, 2021, 03:46:18 AM
The main plot hooks I can still see are:
- The trolls converging on the mages' pantry. (Who will be encountered by the non-mages soonish.)
- The whole idea of kadefication and the Seagull Mage, who is qualified to reverse it if it is early in the process. It would be a huge shame not to use that whole setup.
Post by: thorny on October 10, 2021, 07:25:16 PM
Post by: Jitter on October 11, 2021, 11:33:58 AM
Post by: thorny on October 11, 2021, 02:15:37 PM
I'll hope for a long one, with lots of loose ends tied, and with some conversation with Grandma after all. But what I hope for isn't necessarily what we'll get.
Post by: Jitter on October 11, 2021, 03:26:47 PM
There was also talk about a fan Q/A session after the comic is finished, where we could ask about the open ends that bug us and Minna would answer. At the time she seemed to feel it was a good idea, but I guess it also depends on how attached or not she still is to the characters by now,
Post by: thorny on October 11, 2021, 07:41:19 PM
-- maybe Minna's getting interested in her characters again? The strip does seem to be more like it used to be. So maybe we will get another couple of good chapters, and some of the ends tied up in them.
Post by: Jitter on October 12, 2021, 12:41:34 AM
I rarely get to the stream anymore but I’ll try to remember to go and ask her about the session as it was a long while ago we talked about it.
Post by: wavewright62 on October 12, 2021, 04:47:31 AM
I agree that we seem to be back on point, but I'm not sure she's getting re-invested in the characters so much as finally getting to the point she mentally storyboarded some time ago. (We've all been there - we know where the story needs to go, but puzzle over how we can get it to come to pass.)
Post by: thorny on October 12, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
if it’s on Twitch the recording can be watched for two weeks after.
Do you have to be on Twitch to watch it? (Says the person who is not on much of anything except a few message boards, and doesn't want to be because she spends too much time online as it is.)
(We've all been there - we know where the story needs to go, but puzzle over how we can get it to come to pass.)
Ohhh yeah -- I have a batch of stuff in my head for which I have scattered incidents, sometimes including the ending, but I can't seem to write the stuff to connect them together.
Post by: Jitter on October 12, 2021, 01:54:37 PM
Post by: catbirds on October 12, 2021, 01:57:08 PM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on October 13, 2021, 08:16:22 PM
I'll see myself out.
Post by: CCMars on October 13, 2021, 08:21:17 PM
Sadly I think Emil’s dreamfire will forever be shrouded in mystery, only shown in tantalizing glimpses of fanfiction.
I apologize for the late reply, but seriously?! That and the dream connection plotline were honestly what I was most looking forward to in this adventure. :-\
Shame, because this is the best the art has looked in ages...
Post by: wavewright62 on October 13, 2021, 10:11:00 PM
"Mine!""Mine!""Mine!"
"That's enough, my darlings, back off, they're mine."
Post by: Jitter on October 14, 2021, 08:22:38 AM
I apologize for the late reply, but seriously?! That and the dream connection plotline were honestly what I was most looking forward to in this adventure. :-\
Shame, because this is the best the art has looked in ages...
Sadly yes, Minna has informed that this will be the last adventure and will come to an end soonish (earlier info was early next year, I haven’t heard of any further updates on that). We may still hope to see something about the dream connection, although I must admit I doubt that. But surely (this is my guess, not knowledge) the fire would have been subject for another adventure in Sweden?
And of course we can hope she will return to SSSS at some point in the future, but as of now she’s planning other things.
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/4d3c25de610166ba995024c35878600f/tumblr_inline_nlgu78iOlP1r2g2kx_500.png)
Post by: Jitter on October 15, 2021, 04:04:56 AM
Post by: Annuil on October 17, 2021, 09:31:03 PM
I personally think Minna gave us enough to make fan-art and fan fiction, enough to love and make references to our own lives no matter in which part of the world you live.
It has been seven (is it seven?..) years of work/story being told and I feel satisfied that it has not gone away from its excellence and is being finished soon.
The story about an apocalypses in the Scandinavian countries is being made, and that is why she wanted to do. She is about to accomplish her goal, which, as an author, is one of the greatest feelings ever. :)
We have the characters now and we will have them with us from now on, and Minna is not quitting art! She’ll do more projects and we can watch them develop! Change is good. Though there is some sadness. :onni:
Post by: Jitter on October 18, 2021, 02:22:11 PM
Just to make sure, I said “we can hope” because obviously we can. But I don’t think she will return to SSSS any more after this is finished.
Post by: thorny on October 18, 2021, 09:37:52 PM
This one, I hope, will be more repairable.
-- at least, it looks like they're getting a chance to talk. And I love that first panel.
Post by: wavewright62 on October 19, 2021, 02:48:48 AM
Or maybe keeping them both safe was the one job, but it was not a complete fail in either case.
So, who wants to place bets on Reynir finding his spine again and telling her off? Just me?
Post by: thorny on October 19, 2021, 07:23:07 AM
Post by: Vulpes on October 19, 2021, 09:22:11 AM
Post by: catbirds on October 19, 2021, 05:07:30 PM
Still kinda sad that we're inching closer and closer to the ending, but hopefully the pages towards the end will be more of things like this.
Spoiler: more thoughts on the pacing • show
Post by: Maple on October 21, 2021, 05:01:51 PM
Ah well. I have plans for fanfic, and I know I'll look forward to what others make too.
Post by: Jitter on October 21, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
I am sad
Post by: JoB on October 21, 2021, 05:56:01 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on October 21, 2021, 06:54:01 PM
Whenever someone leaves the fandom, we wish them well despite our sadness at our loss. As the creator Minna's a more crucial cog, but we just have to wish her well with moving her life forward to where *she* needs it to go. (And hope that that direction is not damaging to others despite our fears.)
We have rich headcanons about what happened before, and what happens next. I think it's best to pursue those ourselves. After all, pushing Minna to explain what her assumptions were surrounding what happened before ...didn't work out very well for any of us, did it?
We as a fandom have collective knowledge in a huge range of fields, and that was something that made it very fun for us to hang around and learn from one another. Minna didn't have that, she was just in it to draw her OCs having a cool adventure, and that took all of her time and then some. I wish that she could have learnt alongside us and incorporated those learnings, but it didn't work out that way.
Post by: Róisín on October 21, 2021, 10:08:37 PM
Post by: Jitter on October 22, 2021, 04:49:49 AM
Mirasol suggested we continue the YoinkTober event with encouraging anyone who feels like it to provide something on the theme of Transformation and Change during the days between and of October and start of chapter.
I think that is a very good idea and the prompt extremely fitting (just as it is for the entire YoinkTober). Maybe I’ll make an event invitation to this effect?
And you guys are absolutely right. We have been preparing for this, we have restructured the entire forum and started some new things. I feel like we will survive this. Nevertheless it does hit me in the feels, when I actually see it spelled out.
Post by: Róisín on October 22, 2021, 06:24:16 AM
Post by: Jitter on October 23, 2021, 03:55:49 PM
I also asked about a Q/A session, Minna said she’ll be happy to do that in a stream but is not going to arrange a written session e.g. in Disqus. She also predicted most of her answers are going to be in the lines of “I don’t know I hadn’t really thought about it”.
We also talked a little about the plans she may have had for the upcoming adventures. She explained her process a bit. She had a bunch of loose ideas for how the story might continue, but she hadn’t written anything yet. If she had intended to do another adventure, she would have been writing it towards the end of this one.
For example, I asked whether it would have happened in Sweden, and she described that she had several ideas set in Sweden, Norway or both. But hadn’t settled on any one of these as the next one.
I feel better knowing that there isn’t an unrealized plan for the continuation of the story. Firstly, it would feel like such a waste! And secondly it leaves more room for the fanworks :)
Post by: lwise on October 23, 2021, 06:33:02 PM
Post by: Jitter on October 23, 2021, 07:25:09 PM
The streams can be watched in recording for a week or two afterwards too.
Post by: lwise on October 23, 2021, 08:32:39 PM
Post by: thorny on October 23, 2021, 09:15:37 PM
Sad but unsurprising news. Glad that we're supposed to get an epilogue; wonder whether it'll give us bits of future lives, or stay in the end-of-chapter year.
And I suspect that "hadn't really thought about it" accurately covers a great deal, not only about possible future stories but also about how things hang together (or don't) in the segment of the world which Minna did create.
Post by: Yuuago on October 23, 2021, 09:24:49 PM
Like you, I do feel a little better knowing that there wasn't much of a plan for the next adventure, that she hadn't settled even on where it would be set.
In general, I still feel very bad about everything. But the fact that there wasn't really anything outlined, so there isn't anything specific that I would be missing out on now that the comic's ending, is... reassuring (? not the right word, best one that comes to mind)
Post by: Vulpes on October 26, 2021, 04:19:40 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on October 26, 2021, 07:27:11 PM
Also glad to know there isn't an unfinished, half-baked story that would be left on Minna's drawer. Better that way, so we can create many interesting future paths.
And I'll be sad with the end, but, as with the (so many) books that we love, at some point one has to close the last page, but the story will always remain with us.
Post by: lwise on October 28, 2021, 09:36:43 PM
Obviously I'm concerned about the possible deaths of two team members, but I don't really think we'll see that. I find it very hard to believe that, after all these years, Minna would kill off two of our beloved characters in the last chapter, with nothing but an epilogue to say goodbye to them.
But if we assume that two of them will die ... Minna said that she was going to end this adventure as originally planned. The original plan seems to have been that she would go on and have adventures in the other nations of the Known World. We've done Denmark and Finland. How could she have planned to have adventures in Sweden or Norway, without Emil or Sigrun? Or in Iceland without Reynir? Therefore, if she intended as part of her original plan that two characters would die, they would have to be two of these three: Lalli, Onni, Mikkel.
But, again, I can't imagine that she will kill off even one of those three in the last chapter.
Well, except maybe Onni.
Post by: catbirds on October 29, 2021, 12:05:48 AM
Ummm.. ummmmmm... lwise, you're right, that is indeed very concerning!!
Umm......
Yeah, it's weird to kill off characters now considering they've just experienced such a major success. I see the figures of Emil, Lalli, Onni or Mikkel, and Sigrun, but I'm not sure if people are interpreting the blurbs as anything different. It could just be that the team split up again... I hope.
If any were to be killed off within this chapter, it'd be pretty unsatisfying, in terms of the narrative. I can't imagine any of their deaths giving me any particular emotion except how?
Spoiler: you know what from adventure 1 • show
All that aside, this chapter cover is really nostalgic. A lot of this series' art featured the characters sitting around a glowing orange campfire, with the blue darkness hanging over them. Minna even made a gouache painting of something like that once, which was cool. The bear snorting the water is a nice touch.
Post by: muidole on October 29, 2021, 12:23:01 AM
Or I'm probably just completely misinterpreting the scene haha
Post by: catbirds on October 29, 2021, 12:59:46 AM
Post by: tehta on October 29, 2021, 02:46:46 AM
I agree that there's zero foreshadowing though, so it's hard. And I see the characters around the fire the same way, except I'm not sure about the two-headed lump people identify as Sigrun.
Post by: lwise on October 29, 2021, 06:43:42 AM
However, I think if Emil, Sigrun, or Reynir died, it'd make for an interesting albeit heavy arc in the country they're from, working through their idea of death and the afterlife with the remaining members of the crew. It'd be very hard to write, though. And definitely a giant exercise in empathy.
I considered that, but if Minna meant to go on with the characters, that seemed a little too heavy compared even to what we've had so far.
Post by: thorny on October 29, 2021, 09:55:00 AM
Maybe Minna's just trying to scare us.
But that's neat artwork, the landscape and bear turning into each other.
Post by: Kiran on October 30, 2021, 02:01:38 AM
Post by: lwise on October 30, 2021, 02:24:01 AM
Post by: crowbarrd on October 30, 2021, 04:43:04 AM
Post by: Kiran on November 05, 2021, 09:31:59 AM
Post by: catbirds on November 05, 2021, 09:54:35 AM
Post by: Kiran on November 05, 2021, 10:03:49 AM
She may have just elected to post on Monday! Check the notes section, it's mentioned that it'll be either today or Monday.
Yeah, I didn't notice the "or perhaps Monday" part of the notes. Oops. :P
Post by: Róisín on November 06, 2021, 12:25:42 AM
Post by: tehta on November 06, 2021, 05:25:52 AM
Post by: lwise on November 07, 2021, 04:48:20 PM
It is difficult to express how little I care about the battle between Surma and the Mother of Bears. As long as they're off somewhere else, giving Our Heroes a chance to hightail it back to civilization, I really don't care what happens to those two.
Post by: thorny on November 07, 2021, 05:12:27 PM
And this page doesn't seem to get us any further through it; it's just another round of whack, whack, whack. We already know these two are trying to kill each other and are both really hard to kill. I hope Minna's not going to take up yet more of our limited pages left having them throw each other around.
Post by: lwise on November 07, 2021, 05:56:14 PM
Post by: Jitter on November 07, 2021, 06:43:56 PM
Post by: lwise on November 07, 2021, 08:58:32 PM
Post by: catbirds on November 08, 2021, 06:42:18 PM
And maybe Surma's the one peeking at the crew on the cover page.
But I'm just wondering so much at what the rest of the chapter will be like and how it'll end. Most importantly, if we'll be happy with it or not.
Post by: vergoftowels on November 10, 2021, 03:47:37 PM
Man, catching up and reading page by page is hard.
Post by: TubularFox on November 10, 2021, 04:01:53 PM
(Also please, please, I miss my Swede can he come back soon please? ;_; )
Post by: Jitter on November 10, 2021, 04:07:28 PM
Also welcome to the club, yeah I’m disappointed too.
I think panel 2 is an important one in the way it underlines how Onni is all alone again, but I really wanted to hear some of that conversation! And earlier, something from the original Kade, but apparently neither of these things will happen. Frustrating!
I miss Emil too. He hasn’t really done anything since the Tanktroll!
Post by: lwise on November 10, 2021, 04:25:28 PM
Maybe there'll be something tomorrow.
Post by: thorny on November 10, 2021, 07:00:45 PM
That is if so both frustrating, and really bad writing. She spends the whole adventure building up to this and then there's nothing there?
Post by: Esprit on November 10, 2021, 07:03:56 PM
I really dont like when the author leaves such moments for the reader to think up. If the following pages will not contain at least a brief summary of what the conversation was about then for me this is simply a failure and a big sign that the comic is 'rolling down'. Quite interesting dialogues and moments have already been missed and it's just unacceptable to lose the last and really important things. I can understand why Minna 'forgot' about the backstories of some of the characters. With a changed worldview it can be difficult to see things and people from the same perspective as before. And what used to be close now seems very distant. But letting go of what the whole path led to like this?.. Really? Hope I am wrong.
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on November 10, 2021, 07:39:34 PM
It's pretty easy to imagine what they talked about too. Tuuri clearly was going to explain what happened in Adventure 1, Lalli probably didn't say much of anything, Onni probably didn't either. Grandma definitely scolded Onni for not going with Tuuri on the first adventure.
Would I have traded the Surma vs Bear and Gang vs Bear sequences for chatting with Grandma though? In a heartbeat.
Post by: thorny on November 10, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
But it's the emotional stuff that's really missing. Is she glad to be rescued? Does she feel like she was rescued? Is she, and is Tuuri, resigned to going with the Swan? looking forward to it? wishing there were some way out of it? The swan demands two souls; did Onni volunteer to be one so that Tuuri -- or Ensi for that matter, though Tuuri seems more likely -- could stay? if so, how did they react? Does Ensi have advice for Onni? encouragement? is she still angry at him? Did Ensi want to know what Onni and Tuuri's and Lalli's lives have been like since she left them? If not, why not?
Post by: Jitter on November 11, 2021, 03:57:12 AM
If she did scold the boys for what happened to Tuuri, did all of this actually make their emotional baggage even worse, and not better?
Post by: tehta on November 11, 2021, 05:45:47 AM
Lalli deserves praise for how he handled the Kade incident. How many kids his age would have kept it together so well?
Onni deserves major praise for keeping the family together and raising the other children. He gave up so much.
It seems rather unlikely, considering both the guys' self-soothing body language.
However, overall I think I am way less disappointed than most, because I was not expecting to see any of this reunion, at least not after we followed Reynir as he walked away. I was actually surprised that the birds were still there, yesterday: I expected Lalli to just tell Reynir it was time to go. And Minna has a long track record of leaving emotional scenes to the imagination. In Adv One she at least hinted at deeper emotion (see Reynir and Lalli after Tuuri's funeral) but more recently it's been... just missing. I was enormously disappointed by the Lehto reunion (regarding Tuuri, all we got was Reynir's 'joke' and the others' reactions to it; and Onni said he would talk to Lalli, and then... ?)
Post by: JoB on November 11, 2021, 06:14:47 AM
Did Ensi let them know it was not their fault? I mean the original attack on their village, which she would have views on.Considering Onnis referral to "grandma's one mistake", I don't think that they ever thought of it being their fault in the first place. A task to address and clean up matters at some point during their lifetime maybe, but not personal guilt.
Post by: Jitter on November 11, 2021, 07:02:39 AM
Considering Onnis referral to "grandma's one mistake", I don't think that they ever thought of it being their fault in the first place. A task to address and clean up matters at some point during their lifetime maybe, but not personal guilt.
Maybe not rationally, but the way Lalli acts after Tuuri was bitten indicates to me he’s carrying more guilt than he objectively should. And Onni, first refusing to leave Keuruu and now on a suicide mission? A few minutes of talking will not heal these things, but they could be a push to set healing in motion.
Post by: tehta on November 11, 2021, 07:16:11 AM
I think I am slightly more balanced than any Hotakainen, but I think I would definitely feel guilt in his situation.
Post by: thorny on November 11, 2021, 10:45:34 AM
Blame and guilt are not a zero-sum game. To me, the fact that Onni blames grandma does not imply that he does not blame himself for some aspects of the death of his family.
In fact, he seems to have expanded that blame, or at least a terror of it, to the entire surviving family.
He tells Lalli that because they're Hotakainens they can't afford to make any mistakes at all. Grandmother only made one and look what happened!
Post by: Jitter on November 11, 2021, 12:02:46 PM
In fact, he seems to have expanded that blame, or at least a terror of it, to the entire surviving family.
He tells Lalli that because they're Hotakainens they can't afford to make any mistakes at all. Grandmother only made one and look what happened!
Indeed, this is not a healthy mindset!
Post by: thorny on November 11, 2021, 06:08:48 PM
Is the Swan Jewish?
(If the Swan's going to tell them to be ready, but not what to be ready for, "Oy" seems like an appropriate response.)
Post by: wavewright62 on November 12, 2021, 01:07:11 AM
I also know it from... (takes a deep enough breath to yell loud enough that Keep Looking and Roisin can hear me...)
(http://i.imgur.com/NO1ohzQ.jpg?1)
AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE!
*listens* how about...
(http://orig03.deviantart.net/e19e/f/2015/194/b/0/tuuri_2_by_aquaaurion-d913yjh.png)
ZIGGY ZAGGY ZIGGY ZAGGY!
Post by: JoB on November 12, 2021, 03:16:58 AM
Oy?No, incorporated (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oy#Finnish). ;D
Is the Swan Jewish?
Post by: Róisín on November 12, 2021, 03:21:54 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on November 12, 2021, 05:49:27 PM
Wavewright, I am much amused by that reference.
But you didn't respond with the requisite OY OY OY! ? (which, for the uninitiated, is the appropriate response to both of those calls in Australia)
Post by: Róisín on November 12, 2021, 09:56:07 PM
Post by: Keep Looking on November 12, 2021, 11:13:20 PM
But you didn't respond with the requisite OY OY OY! ? (which, for the uninitiated, is the appropriate response to both of those calls in Australia)*pouts*
I can do a pretty good OY OY OY if needed - I'm quite good at yelling.
Post by: Vulpes on November 13, 2021, 03:27:31 PM
No, incorporated (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oy#Finnish). ;D
GROOOAAAAN! Multilingual puns are the borst*!
*Portmanteau of best and worst, which is what the borst puns are.
Post by: Róisín on November 13, 2021, 11:08:24 PM
Post by: JoB on November 14, 2021, 03:37:38 AM
‘Borst’ sounds like it should be some awful kind of sausage!Well, as far as sausages go, I guess it is (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borscht). :P
Spoiler: show
Post by: Róisín on November 14, 2021, 05:31:04 AM
Post by: tehta on November 14, 2021, 03:25:54 PM
Beetroot borscht! Or barszcz as we Poles call it. A delicious part of my culture, and the bane of white tablecloths. In my family, we serve it with tiny mushroom ravioli at Christmas. I should really make some.
Post by: thorny on November 14, 2021, 04:17:29 PM
The first time my sister's eventual husband came to visit, that was what was started off dinner. He had never had either cold soup or borscht, and found himself served a soup plate of cold pink liquid with a glob of sour cream in the middle. He thought we were having him on.
He looked around the table, and saw the rest of us eating our borscht; and figured that well, if we could eat that stuff with a straight face, so could he. And he did. He didn't tell us until years later that he'd thought we were playing a prank on him.
Post by: tehta on November 14, 2021, 05:24:18 PM
Post by: thorny on November 14, 2021, 09:03:26 PM
(And in any case he didn't get rejected.)
Post by: JoB on November 15, 2021, 02:00:59 AM
Beetroot borscht! Or barszcz as we Poles call it.(German insists on doing the whole ordeal, "Borschtsch". It's my go-to example to explain how there's not just one Cyrillic Alphabet, and that the Shcha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shcha) has a very tangible purpose within its natural range. Pretty much in line with the attempts to have the "sch" replaced by the Háček-S ("š") in German actually ...)
Post by: tehta on November 15, 2021, 04:47:54 AM
(German insists on doing the whole ordeal, "Borschtsch". It's my go-to example to explain how there's not just one Cyrillic Alphabet, and that the Shcha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shcha) has a very tangible purpose within its natural range. Pretty much in line with the attempts to have the "sch" replaced by the Háček-S ("š") in German actually ...)
Well, the szcz in the Polish barszcz, which our neighbours in Germany might be emulating, is a consonant cluster, so could be naturally represented by two consonants (one representing sh and one representing ch, to make bah-r-sh-ch).
We also have ś and ć (and ź for that matter), but they represent different sounds. And we love to squish them together in clusters, as with out word for hello, cześć (/t͡ʂɛɕt͡ɕ/).
...which sounds a bit like a spitting fire? Like the one (Emil?) just caused? I really like the idea that ssss started with Emil blowing up a building containing his teammates, and will end in the same way.
Post by: JoB on November 15, 2021, 10:57:35 AM
Well, the szcz in the Polish barszcz, which our neighbours in Germany might be emulating, is a consonant cluster, so could be naturally represented by two consonants (one representing sh and one representing ch, to make bah-r-sh-ch).No way to be certain short of obtaining a time machine to go ask the Germans originally picking the transcription, I'm afraid, but nonetheless my guess would be that "Borschtsch" is more likely mimicking the "ʃt͡ʃ" cluster the Shcha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shcha) stands for "in Ukrainian and Rusyn" ...
We also have ś and ć (and ź for that matter), but they represent different sounds. And we love to squish them together in clusters, as with out word for hello, cześć (/t͡ʂɛɕt͡ɕ/).Your language wouldn't happen to get raided every now and then by envious Klingon speakers, would it? >:D
...which sounds a bit like a spitting fire?
Post by: tehta on November 15, 2021, 12:32:03 PM
I am surprised that nobody else is commenting on the page. I am actually looking forward to today's update! (Unless it boils down to 'trolls all dead, the group leaves the hotel and goes back to fighting the bear' -- I so want to see them fight something other than a bear. Or Surma. Maybe Sigrun could be awesome again?)
Post by: JoB on November 15, 2021, 01:10:16 PM
We'll never know. But I suppose that the Germans had no other way to represent the ʂ of barszcz in their barbaric language...As surprising as it sounds, even barbarians have standards. :P
I am surprised that nobody else is commenting on the page. I am actually looking forward to today's update! (Unless it boils down to 'trolls all dead, the group leaves the hotel and goes back to fighting the bear' -- I so want to see them fight something other than a bear. Or Surma. Maybe Sigrun could be awesome again?)I suppose that there's a broad consensus that the BOOOM and smoke mirror changing conditions in the mages' real world surroundings, i.e., within the walk-in freezer. Which would indicate that a) some sort of powerful firearm/explosive/incendiary was discharged but b) did not have much effect inside the freezer (else -> crispy mages), which, in turn, leaves the trollpile immediately outside as the likeliest target, and thus the other team members as the ones who discharged it.
Trolldom could certainly cause a BOOOM and maybe a bit of some sort of smoke, but unless the hotel had a powder room, I don't see how they could cause both at once.
Post by: tehta on November 15, 2021, 01:25:29 PM
Post by: Jitter on November 15, 2021, 03:07:42 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/yNp2qXsk/91-A6-DFE7-988-B-4-A91-A87-A-30-AB686-CBCAA.jpg)
Post by: wavewright62 on November 15, 2021, 03:15:38 PM
Post by: lwise on November 15, 2021, 03:47:35 PM
Post by: thorny on November 15, 2021, 05:42:30 PM
I am actually looking forward to today's update! (Unless it boils down to 'trolls all dead, the group leaves the hotel and goes back to fighting the bear' -- I so want to see them fight something other than a bear. Or Surma.
How about a fire?
unless the hotel had a powder room
I expect it had a number of them.
Powder room, American:
https://thesaurus.yourdictionary.com/powder-room (https://thesaurus.yourdictionary.com/powder-room)
-- to be more specific, generally no bath or shower, only toilet and sink.
(Yes, I know what you actually meant --)
Post by: JoB on November 15, 2021, 06:02:19 PM
(Yes, I know what you actually meant --)Too late, I already prepared the live demonstration ... !
Post by: thorny on November 15, 2021, 11:02:56 PM
Too late, I already prepared the live demonstration ... !
[runs and hides behind a very large tree]
Post by: JoB on November 16, 2021, 03:05:31 AM
[runs and hides behind a very large tree][cross-references the current page, for a change]
You might want to readjust your level of concern to Emil Level now ...
Post by: tehta on November 16, 2021, 05:25:18 AM
Post by: Jitter on November 16, 2021, 09:18:05 AM
Speaking of which, hopefully all the troll particles in the smoke are well and truly cooked, Reynir and Onni can't help breathing some in.
Post by: thorny on November 16, 2021, 09:34:46 AM
Not in the dreamworld, of course; but I'd think their awake-world bodies would have had them on; they knew they were surrounded by trolls, that's why they hid in there.
Post by: Jitter on November 16, 2021, 11:07:45 AM
So in conclusion, Reynir should be wearing his now even though it's invisible, but Onni isn't.
While looking I saw some great scenes, but also A LOT of falling masonry. And I got reminded of things that seem to be about to remain unsolved. Why was there a skeleton of Grandma's soul bird, for one thing.
Post by: tehta on November 16, 2021, 12:18:29 PM
Post by: lwise on November 17, 2021, 04:15:29 PM
So am I, believe me.
Post by: thorny on November 17, 2021, 06:29:25 PM
There's pages enough for more of this, and there weren't pages enough to show anything Grandma had to say?
Post by: Jitter on November 18, 2021, 04:51:47 AM
:onni: :onni: :onni:
Post by: thorny on November 18, 2021, 07:49:54 AM
Post by: lwise on November 18, 2021, 08:20:17 AM
Post by: Jitter on November 18, 2021, 05:04:42 PM
Post by: thorny on November 21, 2021, 09:55:03 PM
Though I suspect I'm not gonna like it.
Post by: catbirds on November 22, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
Post by: tehta on November 22, 2021, 07:05:37 AM
Post by: thorny on November 22, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
And the original kade was one of the ones who went with the Swan, wasn't she? So why are these leftover souls able to do this without her?
Post by: lwise on November 22, 2021, 07:26:40 PM
oh please, please, do not give us another long batch of pages about kaded bear and Surma fighting --
Exactly what I was thinking. Except -- the team obviously has no chance against either one of these monsters, so I really don't see how this could end without a TPK, unless the team sneaks away while these two are tediously and pointlessly fighting it out.
Post by: tehta on November 23, 2021, 04:24:58 AM
In case it's not obvious, I am still very much hoping that the Seagull Mage was a Chekhov's Gun, not just random color.
Also, a TPK is probably not necessary even if they fail to sneak. If they all scattered the bear might miss some.
Post by: lwise on November 23, 2021, 09:09:40 AM
Also, a TPK is probably not necessary even if they fail to sneak. If they all scattered the bear might miss some.
But would they scatter? Somehow I can't imagine them doing so.
Post by: thorny on November 23, 2021, 11:07:44 AM
the team obviously has no chance against either one of these monsters
What if Lalli did whatever he did to the giant in the first adventure?
Of course, that would only take out one of them, and the rest of the team would need to carry him for a while since he'd collapse afterwards -- though in this case Onni would be right there and know what happened, so it might be possible to get his spirit and body back together sooner.
Maybe Emil could simultaneously get the other one on fire. -- though, what if Lalli took out the remains of the bear, and then everybody just SSSS? Surma would probably just stalk off.
Post by: tehta on November 23, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
And the team did sort of scatter already, inside the hotel.
Post by: Suominoita on November 23, 2021, 09:05:42 PM
Neither one appears to be in any danger, or even to feel pain (more just anger and annoyance). So why should I care what happens to them, so long as the team gets away while they fight?
I wonder where that fight takes them. Will one of the Sentinel Mages call backup or something? I mean what would Väinö do if there was Surma and one big Bear Beast fighting too close?
Post by: thorny on November 23, 2021, 10:11:05 PM
I wonder where that fight takes them. Will one of the Sentinel Mages call backup or something? I mean what would Väinö do if there was Surma and one big Bear Beast fighting too close?
I have the impression that they're quite a ways away from any of the Sentinel Mages; and that what those mages are doing is guarding the edges to make sure nothing gets out, but not trying to police the area inside.
Post by: JoB on November 24, 2021, 03:34:30 AM
I have the impression that they're quite a ways away from any of the Sentinel Mages; and that what those mages are doing is guarding the edges to make sure nothing gets out, but not trying to police the area inside.Google says that, based on today's road infrastructure, of course, Koli to Kerma(nkoski) is 130-some kilometers. Including an option to avoid the Joensuu area entirely.
Now if only we knew how many acres per hour they can raze and how wide a forest aisle they feel honor bound to leave in their trail ...
Post by: Jitter on November 25, 2021, 06:13:02 PM
There was also some discussion on why the mages aren’t magicking. They are just out of the Kade “battle”, but after Onni gathers his senses, he is now free to do some big mojo for the first time since leaving Iceland. Grandma is free and the Kade has mostly been dealt with (maybe…) and he has allies to carry him home if he’s comatose. Prior to this point he couldn’t risk it, but now he could, especially to save Lalli and/or the others. The same applies to Lalli for pretty much the same reasons. Although if they both are out cold, the rest of the team will be inconvenienced to carry them both.
Post by: tehta on November 25, 2021, 07:01:59 PM
I am still half-hoping that Lalli and Onni might team up to carry out a kallohonka for the bear. It would be such a nice way for them to bond, and start building an adult relationship. But none of the cool things I hope for ever seem to happen...
Post by: Róisín on November 25, 2021, 08:23:12 PM
Post by: thorny on November 25, 2021, 10:19:49 PM
I'm feeling a tetch annoyed myself.
Post by: catbirds on November 25, 2021, 10:46:29 PM
Please, please, please let there be some team bonding exercise between the mages soon. This would've been a great place for them to realize they had to ~open up to each other to overcome the odds~ or something! I mean, none of the physical fighters can do anything about a bunch of immaterial glowing eyeballs, right? Or maybe they're not immaterial?
Post by: JoB on November 26, 2021, 03:53:10 AM
Pah, Mikkel can probably carry one Hotakainen per shoulder. Also the later parts of the journey are by boat, which is a great way to transport comatose mages. Especially ones who get boat-sick when awake, or even ones that hate fishing.I'd guess that getting Mikkel involved would imply the return of his best buddy Barry. Or is there a Finnish (horti)cultural taboo I'm not aware of ... ?
Fun fact, though: Comatose people can drown in a mishap with a (small row)boat ...
I mean, none of the physical fighters can do anything about a bunch of immaterial glowing eyeballs, right? Or maybe they're not immaterial?Right now, those're apparently incorporated into a very physical Kaunoinen that you do not want attacked by anyone but whoever qualifies as the team's tank ...
Post by: tehta on November 26, 2021, 04:41:18 AM
Please, please, please let there be some team bonding exercise between the mages soon. This would've been a great place for them to realize they had to ~open up to each other to overcome the odds~ or something!
It would just make so much sense in an adventure about the Hotakainen backstory for the remaining Hotakainens to bond. More specifically, for Onni to realize that Lalli is not just a kid he has to look out for, but another adult who has agency and can support him, at least magically.
(Reynir can get in there too, but I actually think we have already seen him and Lalli growing closer.)
Post by: lwise on November 26, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
He hosted the dream that told Reynir and Emil what happened to the village, which information was appreciated by the onlookers but, so far as I can tell, is irrelevant to the adventure. In mage-space, he ran around being attacked by kadettes, before following the Swan. He then advised Reynir not to follow the Swan, which was bad advice that Reynir ignored. The only contribution Lalli made after that was pulling Reynir out (splat!).
Unless I'm missing something, Onni won't see Lalli as another adult "who can support him, at least magically", because so far he hasn't been.
Post by: tehta on November 27, 2021, 09:00:40 AM
I do think Lalli has been helpful in some practical ways, mostly by dragging Reynir our of harm's way. I said magically because I don't think Lalli give Onni the emotional support he needs, but I should have said something different, like practically. That said, it doesn't look like he's been scouting for the team or anything, which he should be doing, and which Sigrun or Mikkel should surely advise.
Oof, now I'm talking myself into disliking all the characters.
Post by: tehta on November 28, 2021, 04:11:49 PM
- Her story of her full-immersion baptism has a weird parallel in what happens to Surma.
- Oh no, not more Mamma Bear. I want to see the characters at some point before January.
Post by: catbirds on November 28, 2021, 04:34:23 PM
This was a weirdly anti-climactic end to Surma.
IDK, I've never felt so little for monsters in a story.
Her story of her full-immersion baptism has a weird parallel in what happens to Surma.
Interesting way to look at it!
Post by: Buteo on November 28, 2021, 04:38:32 PM
Fortunately, we have many folk who are very good with words, and who have provided splendidly recognizable views of our characters in storylines that closely hew to the Minnaverse.
It is not the same as a good story by the person whose world the story is being told in, not at all. But I love her characters, and I love the real-world people I have met here, too much to let it all go, just because the author has tossed her world away.
Post by: thorny on November 28, 2021, 05:36:38 PM
And Mama Bear was just trying to care for her babies; and will never be able to do so again.
Is Mama Bear even still in there? or is she gone, and the body's just animated by the kaded spirits, without any kade? How does that even work? (not that I really expect to find out.)
And if Minna's been some sort of background Christian all her life: wasn't she already baptized? Or is it likely that her family are members of an adult-baptism sect? Or is the theory that the first baptism didn't count for some reason? Or do Christians sometimes get re-baptized, sort of like married people renewing their vows? Though I don't suppose I'll get answers to any of that either; except maybe the last, as it seems likely there's somebody on these boards who knows the answer to that.
Post by: lwise on November 28, 2021, 08:11:27 PM
Honestly, I don't see how anything but a deus ex machina is going to save the party from Mama Bear.
Also, how incredibly wrong was Onni about his chances against the Kade!
Post by: catbirds on November 28, 2021, 09:43:30 PM
Surma was just trying to get some peace and quiet. (Though I suppose they've got it now. At least, if that kind of troll can be killed by drowning.)
And Mama Bear was just trying to care for her babies; and will never be able to do so again.
Yeah, if anything, one of my biggest problems with this adventure and maybe the series as a whole has been its treatment of monsters. But it was a lot more toned-down in adventure 1, with a lot less emotional development for the monsters as there has been with the bears.
And if Minna's been some sort of background Christian all her life: wasn't she already baptized? Or is it likely that her family are members of an adult-baptism sect? Or is the theory that the first baptism didn't count for some reason? Or do Christians sometimes get re-baptized, sort of like married people renewing their vows? Though I don't suppose I'll get answers to any of that either; except maybe the last, as it seems likely there's somebody on these boards who knows the answer to that.
I've had a couple of friends choose to get baptized well into their teen years. Apparently doing it by choice is different from being an infant, though also it depends on what sect you're a part of maybe? IDK, there's a lot of Christian sects, and almost every one has some fundamental difference that makes all the difference to some. See this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believer%27s_baptism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believer%27s_baptism)
Post by: Róisín on November 28, 2021, 10:13:42 PM
At least she doesn’t seem to have succumbed to one of the Christian sects that forbid all representational art as ‘sinful’, citing the Old Testament prohibition of ‘thou shalt not make unto thyself any graven images’, which I had thought to mean originally ‘don’t make idols’, but which has been creatively misinterpreted to mean ‘don’t make art’. Perhaps by the same kind of grim Calvinists who forbade dancing and singing because people enjoyed them? I figure that if singing and dancing was good enough for the biblical King David it should have been good enough for them, but there seemed to be a concept in that mindset that anything people enjoyed doing was innately evil. Urgh. I have noticed that some of the grimmer sects of Islam have the same prohibition on representational art, giving a similar justification.
But then I’m a lifelong Pagan and hold that talents are to be used and developed for your own growth and for the good of the world.
Post by: JoB on November 29, 2021, 04:08:47 AM
If Minna's end of Adventure II is as flat as it may turn out to be - no further interaction with our crew, no apparent character development or glimpses of possible futures... then it wouldn't happen "around January/February" IMHO, but right now. I mean, if mommy continues to fight, there currently isn't anyone but the team for her to go up against, and if she trots off instead, we're left with the team and their need to return to civilization. We'd need either a new monster ex machina to engage Kaunoinen or a switch to an entirely different theater to avoid getting the team involved.
(Yes, yes, there is the possibility of Surma still being alive, but the current page would be downright pointless if Surma were to get back up right away.)
I have this horrible feeling that Surma is going to pop up againI have to admit that, with Kaunoinen having landed with a CRUNCH! on what now looks like it has been Surmas chest, that ribcage in the last panel still looks amazingly convex ...
Post by: tehta on November 29, 2021, 04:54:38 AM
... then it wouldn't happen "around January/February" IMHO, but right now. I mean, if mommy continues to fight, there currently isn't anyone but the team for her to go up against, and if she trots off instead, we're left with the team and their need to return to civilization. We'd need either a new monster ex machina to engage Kaunoinen or a switch to an entirely different theater to avoid getting the team involved.
The team will surely show up and do something, but it could be as simple as running for their lives in the background of panels while the bear chases them, roaring, in the foreground.
(I still think the Seagull Mage could deal with possessed Mamma Bear, and would choose to do so if she heads towards his border. So that might be the endgame.)
Also, I think that, when most of us talk about wanting to see the crew, we are talking about seeing them behave in specifically in-character ways that differ from what any other group of characters might do. Not just acting as anonymous prey for a bear.
Post by: JoB on November 29, 2021, 05:29:31 AM
The team will surely show up and do something, but it could be as simple as running for their lives in the background of panels while the bear chases them, roaring, in the foreground.Emil has just cleaned out an entire room packed with trolls, to the effect (we hope) of getting the mages back into action outside the magescape. The complication that had kept him from doing more of that, Surma, is no more (we hope), and the kadéballs now animating Kaunoinen apparently qualified as little more than magescape scenery to the mages back when they were released from the kadragon. I don't think that the team will need Väinös services for this one - not to mention that they IMHO don't stand a chance to run all the way back without Kaunoinen catching up to them. Heck, getting all the way back to a working boat (that they left in Joensuu?) to save themselves onto open water would be quite the feat.
(I still think the Seagull Mage could deal with possessed Mamma Bear, and would choose to do so if she heads towards his border. So that might be the endgame.)
... having that said, I nonetheless could suspend my disbelief enough to allow for a Last Stand at the Lehto, With Divine Smiting to Help conclusion ...
Post by: Jitter on November 29, 2021, 11:44:09 AM
- it keeps growing and/or burning intensely until it just burns out
- a god takes interest and smites it (see the beginning of this post)
- local nature spirits in Koli interfere, after being asked to do so by the mages
- Onni ex Machina is even stronger over short range and due to being in his native Finland, in a forest and also having gotten some training during this adventure, and he can call... maybe not Kokko, as the fiend seems to have fire in it, but maybe Iku-Turso the water monster to deal with it
- the Lehto idea is a great one, thank you JoB! It wouldn't even need to be the one back in Joensuu, Koli is a place of power and there could certainly be a Lehto nearby.
- I had one more but forgot!
If she were planning to just leave it, she could do it right here, as already mentioned. But clearly she's very much looking forward to being rid of SSSS, so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for some brilliant storytelling. Also with today's author comments, I suspect the Q/A session may be out too.
As for her baptism...
Spoiler: show
Post by: catbirds on November 29, 2021, 12:24:58 PM
Moving to another thread:
Spoiler: show
Post by: Jitter on November 29, 2021, 04:19:44 PM
Spoiler: show
Post by: thorny on November 29, 2021, 06:49:50 PM
The kadeds weren't looking for a body, they were supposedly just trying to help out? Why? Were they conscious all the time in the kade, and thought Mama Bear was on their side? If so, was it because they had Stockholm or something and identified with the kade, or because they identified with Mama Bear as a sort of fellow captive?
And if they were needed to get Mama to stand up out of the water, why is she still on her feet now that they're gone?
And where are they going?
Post by: Suominoita on November 29, 2021, 11:17:06 PM
Sooo, the one more option for getting out of this was NOT kadettes just leaving. I am... I don't know what I am, but happy isn't it.
Yes. I interpret is as Mama Bear not feeling angry or vengeful anymore, now that Surma, who she actually saw directly killing her baby is dead. Maybe she's calm now and just walks away, not wanting to deal with the team anymore? A bit anticlimax, but well... the team is not able to deal with Kaunoinen and never was.
Anyway, it's the Disease that's the big deal, not an individual beast even one as mighty as the Kadebear.
Still, now that Onni's mission is over and dealt with, are they all going home now? I expect Sigrun and Mikkel going to Norway with Reynir -- lots of traffic between Norway and Iceland -- Lalli and Onni? Maybe Emil stays with them, maybe he goes to his aunt, uncle and cousins.
Post by: catbirds on November 30, 2021, 12:13:39 AM
But either way, the general sentiment here seems to be that the comic isn't really living up to what it looked like it'd be initially. And Minna's interest in the series has also waned, which is understandable considering her decisions in the past year. I have no idea how she'll finish the story, but unless someone goes out and dies in the last 50 pages, they'll probably just all go home.
Spoiler: oops • show
Post by: JoB on November 30, 2021, 03:27:23 AM
The kadeds weren't looking for a body, they were supposedly just trying to help out? Why? Were they conscious all the time in the kade, and thought Mama Bear was on their side? If so, was it because they had Stockholm or something and identified with the kade, or because they identified with Mama Bear as a sort of fellow captive?There is another possibility: All those souls the kade absorbed supposedly were Finnish mages, with the major task (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87) to guide (other) trapped souls to the afterlife. If they have been freed from the kade's influence in any meaningful way, they might have looked at the fight and seen one soul they could do that with (Surma, with a human soul) and one they have to leave for others (because Kaunoinens beast soul requires a kallohonka and, thus, physical hands to clean her bones).
Edit to add:
Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Post by: wavewright62 on November 30, 2021, 03:27:55 AM
Stop by the Sentinel's outpost and pick up surprisingly non-bleeding personal effects (I'd still love to know the story of the jewelled brooch or cloak clasp, and whether it belonged to Mikkel or Sigrun). Lay a stone for Ensi with the others. Maybe a little lake scenery. I can hope for some character interaction.
Post by: Jitter on November 30, 2021, 03:42:13 AM
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/af1c900013916cf0f396ea8e5e35eb72/tumblr_inline_nmg0m1oZBn1r2g2kx_540.png)
Post by: thorny on November 30, 2021, 09:35:15 AM
There is another possibility: All those souls the kade absorbed supposedly were Finnish mages, with the major task (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=87) to guide (other) trapped souls to the afterlife. If they have been freed from the kade's influence in any meaningful way, they might have looked at the fight and seen one soul they could do that with (Surma, with a human soul) and one they have to leave for others (because Kaunoinens beast soul requires a kallohonka and, thus, physical hands to clean her bones).
That does seem to make sense -- except I don't see any indication of what happens to Surma's soul. I'd think that, if that's what Minna meant, Surma's soul would be seen rising up to join the others.
If she did mean that, she's being really unclear about it.
Post by: tehta on November 30, 2021, 11:00:32 AM
While the story confounds me, I am at least enjoying the art again! Parts of the bear hunt were almost painful to me, but things seemed to improve around when the dreamspace chapter started. I found the lake, the sun(rise|set) clouds, and even the bear pleasing to look at in the last update, and since the nature scenes were one of the things that originally drew me to the comic, that really means something to me.
Post by: wavewright62 on December 01, 2021, 02:58:26 AM
Post by: thorny on December 01, 2021, 09:16:58 PM
-- I wonder if Mama Bear is looking for Lalli to cleanse her bones? Her attitude looks a little, to me, like that of the dog beast in Adventure 1 chapter 3 walking up to Emil and lying down to be killed.
Post by: lwise on December 01, 2021, 09:27:01 PM
Questions that probably won't be answered:
Who was the Kade and why did she do what she did?
Why did the Swan leave the kadettes behind?
Why did they help (or use) Mama Bear to kill Surma?
And furthermore, how?
If the kadettes could do that, why didn't the Kade just inhabit Mama Bear (or Surma) and smash through the team, the sentinel mages, and every settlement in Finland?
Where did the kadettes go, and why?
Post by: catbirds on December 01, 2021, 10:59:03 PM
One thing is I'm really wondering why no one on the team thought it prudent to wear a mask through the fire, but I'm not sure why that bugs me a lot. In a particularly fiery place, or even in a mildly smoky place, my eyes will start to burn even if I cover them and breathe through cloth. Plus, explosion fire in an industrial kitchen definitely isn't the good type of fire.
Side note: Minna did say that she'd like to end SSSS on a place where she could pick it up again if she ever felt like it. Not that her decisions with the comic now are great, or that that justifies whatever the ending will be.
I do think some of these questions about the folklore/spiritual elements can be left to personal interpretation, but the storytelling's too feeble right now to keep readers from picking up these inconsistencies.
She usually takes a break over Christmas / New Year's, so it's possible we may have only on the order of a dozen pages left in the story proper.
Oops, I totally forgot about that. If she does decide to just push through so she can get SSSS done with, that wouldn't be surprising. But I feel like I'll be able to breathe a huge sigh of relief once it's done anyway, so I'm vaguely looking forward to it.
Post by: thorny on December 05, 2021, 05:46:40 PM
Side note: Minna did say that she'd like to end SSSS on a place where she could pick it up again if she ever felt like it.
Interesting. I wonder whether she might be having second thoughts.
Sometimes new and vehement converts . . . don't stay that way.
(Definitely not counting on that, though. And if she does have second thoughts, they won't necessarily be thoughts I'd be any happier with.)
Post by: thorny on December 06, 2021, 07:38:30 PM
I do hope Lalli's coming.
Post by: wavewright62 on December 07, 2021, 02:54:34 AM
Lalli going to help the bears, maybe?
Interesting. I wonder whether she might be having second thoughts.
Sometimes new and vehement converts . . . don't stay that way.
(Definitely not counting on that, though. And if she does have second thoughts, they won't necessarily be thoughts I'd be any happier with.)
For all my trepidation at the effect Minna's conversion has had upon this art that we love, I do not wish for her the mental anguish that any backpedalling would entail.
Post by: Róisín on December 07, 2021, 06:41:26 AM
Post by: thorny on December 07, 2021, 07:32:18 AM
Nothing but mental and emotional maturity can really change such things anyway. Or direct Word of God(s).
I don't know -- I've run into an occasional person who just seems to keep moving from one belief set to another, with seemingly equal vehemence about each one in its turn, including insistence that others ought to join in.
It occurs to me that I don't know those particular people any longer; maybe they did grow out of it eventually. But I'm not sure it wasn't a long-term character trait that they had to believe in something, but couldn't settle on what; and had to try to defend each belief by getting agreement from others.
None of which is to say that that's what's going on with Minna. I have no clear idea what's going on with Minna, but hope it works out well eventually both for her and for those around her.
ETA: In any case, I still hope Lalli's coming to help the bears on their way.
Post by: midwestmutt on December 07, 2021, 10:39:31 AM
Post by: Róisín on December 07, 2021, 10:51:51 PM
People.
And thorny, I’ve certainly met enough of the type who flit from one religion, philosophy, friend group or political party to another and insist each time that they have found the One True Way and everyone they know has to convert Right Now. Don’t like the attitude, or the assumption that what other people believe is even any of their business. Sadly though, it is a common mindset.
Post by: catbirds on December 08, 2021, 02:50:04 AM
Minna lives on the proceeds of her art, and I’m fairly sure that whatever she made would sell, even stuff like Lovely People.
I do wonder, though. She's said multiple times that she didn't intend to turn a significant profit from LP, and yeah, the webpage doesn't have any ads on it either, even though I don't know the sales numbers for the LP books. The pricing model says she wants people to buy multiple copies and that the message is more important than earning money, and considering how many fancy features these books have (physically), this just isn't really... a profitable move. But 27 Euros does sound like a lot to me either way TBH.
Either way, I don't think she's having second thoughts, but maybe at some point she suddenly won't find SSSS incompatible with her new worldview. Of course, a whole bunch of us will have moved on by then, so who knows.
Post by: thorny on December 09, 2021, 08:49:28 PM
Wonder what he's going to do about the missing skulls?
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on December 11, 2021, 08:47:16 PM
Unrelated: I just realized we have emoticons for the SSSS characters?? :reynir: :torbjorn:
Post by: JoB on December 12, 2021, 01:48:53 AM
Wonder what he's going to do about the missing skulls?Reynir the
Post by: thorny on December 12, 2021, 07:18:06 PM
-- Kitty looks extremely comfortable.
Post by: Jitter on December 13, 2021, 04:43:35 PM
Post by: catbirds on December 13, 2021, 05:32:59 PM
Good that Lalli successfully made it up there too.
Mikkel's ghost shoulder on the left is kind of distracting, but I'm sure it'd make sense once the page is formatted into a full spread.
Post by: thorny on December 13, 2021, 07:19:00 PM
I also like this page. Everybody is indeed being themselves. And I even like the smoke trailing through it.
Whether everybody wants to go live with Sigrun remains to be seen; though I don't know whether we'll see it. If the comic ends with them all still together, though, that's OK by me.
Post by: philman on December 14, 2021, 05:23:57 AM
Yeah, this page was decent! I can't believe the resolution that SSSS was headed towards for the past eight years was Nepotism though, but it's funny so oh well!
Good that Lalli successfully made it up there too.
Mikkel's ghost shoulder on the left is kind of distracting, but I'm sure it'd make sense once the page is formatted into a full spread.
I get the feeling that Sigrun's idea of what her father will think of them is rather different to what he actually will.
Still, it is nice to know where the comic would have been heading next (Till Norge!), and it is probably the country we know least about.
Post by: catbirds on December 16, 2021, 02:42:22 AM
Spoiler: rambling about visual communication for this page • show
Post by: thorny on December 16, 2021, 05:34:39 PM
As to the current page: he'd better not be!
Post by: tehta on December 17, 2021, 06:23:29 AM
Stoic Onni is in trouble!
Actually, I am all in favor of Onni being possessed, if this leads to a ritual where we get some Hotakainen resolution. I am vaguely hopeful...
Post by: wavewright62 on December 18, 2021, 02:50:25 AM
Post by: Kiran on December 20, 2021, 08:17:29 AM
If a person is not infected, then the gull will not hesitate to peck on the said person. But if the said person is slowly being kadefied or is infected, then it could just sit on that person's head and fly back immediately. Although the person in the latter situation is saved from the hard knock, they would unfortunately be "locked out" or be subject to immediate Kade-exorcising magic.
Edit: Looks like I did not see today's page properly. I did not notice that Väinö had explained the working of the Gull-Alarm.
Post by: catbirds on December 20, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Again with the awkward transition, but, ehhh... oh well. At least it's a cute page!
Post by: thorny on December 20, 2021, 02:55:44 PM
However it's quite possible that cats can't be kadeified. Maybe that can only happen to humans; or even only to human mages.
-- Väinö didn't explain why the gulls peck people who aren't possessed, though. It seems an odd way to indicate that. Maybe Minna just thought it was funny; though 'it's funny to hurt people' isn't a kind of humor I can really get behind.
Post by: tehta on December 20, 2021, 03:45:39 PM
Also, I am a little disappointed by the lack of drama...
Post by: Jitter on December 20, 2021, 06:14:02 PM
Still, it’s wayyyy better thy are all safe than have someone die now!
Post by: lwise on December 20, 2021, 06:53:56 PM
Post by: JoB on December 25, 2021, 02:14:49 AM
"The aua (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aua#German) of a thousand beaks!"
Post by: Buteo on December 25, 2021, 10:33:41 PM
Post by: yung_chrysanthemum on December 29, 2021, 03:16:04 PM
Post by: JoB on December 29, 2021, 04:39:02 PM
Wasn't there an info page alluding to exorcism as far back as like... Adventure 1?(No, kades and sentinel mages are specific to Finland, if not the particularly silent parts of the Saimaa lake system, and did not get introduced until adventure 2 brought the entire team there.)
Post by: thorny on December 29, 2021, 04:54:54 PM
I'm not surprised; but I'm continuing to be disappointed.
At least it's seeming less and less likely that anybody's going to get killed off; thereby leaving more room for fanfic.
ETA: I don't know where Minna originally intended to go with this, back when she was still into it. But I'm about 97% sure there was originally intended to be more of it.
ETA again: have we met the guy in the last panel before? or does he just look like somebody we've met before? or am I just being faceblind, which is perfectly possible? (people who don't look alike to most people often look alike to me--)
Post by: Róisín on December 29, 2021, 06:29:42 PM
Post by: tehta on December 29, 2021, 06:30:30 PM
I might reread the start of the adventure tomorrow to see if I can spot his double there.
Post by: Jitter on December 29, 2021, 08:45:29 PM
I guess the seagulls in panel 1 are to explain why everything goes so smoothly (plus if I recall correctly there were no dangers on the water all the way from Saimaa capital to Väinö’s) but still, this is ridiculous. At least here is some of the previously missing travel montage (with some nice scenery and not nice at all ducks) but… no. Not enough. I’m not buying this, it doesn’t have all of the content. Ok,you are right, it’s still good value for its price so I shouldn’t complain BUT
Post by: wavewright62 on December 29, 2021, 08:50:41 PM
Probably those ducks, too.
Post by: JoB on December 30, 2021, 03:09:12 AM
have we met the guy in the last panel before? or does he just look like somebody we've met before?I flipped through the part of adv2 where the team's in Finland and meets actual people¹, but the best I can say is that he looks like (but cannot be) a younger version of Tapsa the cat-wrangler (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=126).
¹ Saimaa canal to Väinö's, so, pages 80-150-ish
Post by: tehta on December 30, 2021, 05:24:34 AM
Post by: JoB on December 30, 2021, 06:06:32 AM
If only we could ask Remembering Man...Hmmm, you think (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=82)? I take the nose and the dome, and buy Finnish origin and reading glasses bending the ears forward, but why would he switch from dock worker at the Bornholm hub to shopkeep in Saimaa, shave off the mustachiolo, and grow out the rest of his beard in the meantime?
Post by: tehta on December 30, 2021, 06:17:22 AM
Post by: Suominoita on December 30, 2021, 06:40:37 AM
Nah, he's just some rando, we haven't seen him before. Plot twist: everybody in Finland outside of Keuruu actually spoke Norwegian all along, including the bears.Yes, well... It's not too much a stretch, really. Presumably most of them take Icelandic lessons starting at the age of 10 and study other languages later, unless they have clear plans for their job that definitely doesn't require any. Lalli was already set for becoming a mage/scout (and well, he had enough communication problems in Finnish, so language studies outside of report-writing lessons were out).
Probably those ducks, too.
Post by: lwise on December 30, 2021, 12:30:09 PM
I flipped through the part of adv2 where the team's in Finland and meets actual people¹, but the best I can say is that he looks like (but cannot be) a younger version of Tapsa the cat-wrangler (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=126).
¹ Saimaa canal to Väinö's, so, pages 80-150-ish
Tapsa's little brother, who went to work in the capital for a few months right before it all went down?
Post by: tehta on December 30, 2021, 12:51:20 PM
Post by: lwise on December 30, 2021, 01:06:39 PM
Spoiler: show
Post by: tehta on December 30, 2021, 04:33:36 PM
I also love the post addressing system they have going there. As far as I can tell, it's 'this letter is meant for the person/people in the picture who will probably walk past kiosk X at some point.'
Post by: lwise on December 30, 2021, 05:03:58 PM
Post by: Róisín on December 30, 2021, 10:57:21 PM
I especially liked it when mail arrived with the Godsdens, an elderly retired couple whose mission in life was to convert the godless sapphire miners to their own particular brand of Christianity. They were not very successful in this, but I used to look forward to their visits because when they dropped off mail and supplies I would cook a fancy meal for everyone, after which all the adults would gather around the fire after the younger kids were in bed and enjoy a debate on religion, philosophy, travelling and music. They had no luck with us since my family and the cousin who worked with us were all pagan, and the cousin’s old bandmate who had taken a year off his touring circuit to try mining and play his fiddle in country pubs was a lapsed Catholic, but their visits were always interesting, since they were educated and intelligent people who were simply nice folk. Good times those were, and I can imagine travellers in silent Finland having similar arrangements for getting mail to remote places.
Post by: tehta on December 31, 2021, 08:07:11 AM
- My favourite: some new person or persons who read about the expedition in a newspaper (that photo could be a newspaper clipping!) offering them a new job somewhere reachable from where they are. (Maybe even outside the Known World? A girl can dream.) Question is: would they accept such an offer? (Reynir definitely, Emil doesn't have a reason not too especially if the pay is good, the Hotakainens have nothing better to do, Mikkel will do whatever is sensible... Sigrun can be tempted by promise of adventure, can't she?)
- The expedition organizers, offering them a job again, this time with some extra justification of some sort. Like extra cash. (Why did the crew other than Sigrun turn them down anyway? Mikkel had Sigrun's offer, but surely Reynir for one would love more adventure?)
- Sigrun's parents and/or Trond, informing her that a longship is on its way to pick her up.
- Trond in general, with a secret mission as per fanfics.
- Reynir's parents, angry at Reynir. (Seems likely to actually happen, unlikely to be shown in the comic as it does not advance the plot.)
- Reynir's sister, with an invitation for her wedding to Beefy Horse Guy. (Ditto.)
- Emil's parents, who want to know him again now that he's semi-famous and possibly rich.
- Some sort of outerwear company offering them endorsement deals.
- A rabid fan with a marriage offer.
Post by: Róisín on December 31, 2021, 09:03:01 AM
Post by: thorny on December 31, 2021, 11:25:30 AM
unlikely to be shown in the comic as it does not advance the plot.)[/li][/list]
Except I don't think Minna's trying to advance the plot. She's trying to wind it up, in the sense of ending it.
A number of your suggestions would make a lot of sense if there were to be an Adventure 3; but there isn't time, in what's left of the comic, for them to play out properly as part of 2.
Post by: tehta on December 31, 2021, 12:24:28 PM
That said, while I am sure Minna doesn't plan to add more adventures, she might add some sort of 'hook' to let us know what the crew will be doing in the future and this could be the setup for that. I do think that ending the book with them deciding to stay together as a team would feel somewhat satisfying.
Post by: lwise on December 31, 2021, 02:42:05 PM
Post by: Róisín on December 31, 2021, 09:02:21 PM
Post by: catbirds on January 01, 2022, 01:55:39 AM
I agree that he looks familiar! I even went back to see if maybe he was the gardener from Lalli's 'old home place', since that was another surprise Norwegian speaker, but no.
I might reread the start of the adventure tomorrow to see if I can spot his double there.
We could always settle down and agree that SSSS now uses pokemon centre logic
Post by: Suominoita on January 01, 2022, 09:04:27 PM
So, nobody's guessing what the letter contains? My suggestions (not all serious):So... a new person -- maybe a descendant of a vague prologue character? Or-- well, it could be whoever had that photo-collection of the prologue! Someone making a historical study or something. A second job? Why not -- some other books to loot? Eh, Sigrun's parents/Trond sending her a ship that would somehow make it from Baltic to Saimaa?Also: as someone already said in the comments, we know that there are boats out of Keuruu all winter. So they're not necessarily stuck. It's unclear whether moving around Finland in late summer is easy, though.
- My favourite: some new person or persons who read about the expedition in a newspaper (that photo could be a newspaper clipping!) offering them a new job somewhere reachable from where they are. (Maybe even outside the Known World? A girl can dream.) Question is: would they accept such an offer? (Reynir definitely, Emil doesn't have a reason not too especially if the pay is good, the Hotakainens have nothing better to do, Mikkel will do whatever is sensible... Sigrun can be tempted by promise of adventure, can't she?)
- The expedition organizers, offering them a job again, this time with some extra justification of some sort. Like extra cash. (Why did the crew other than Sigrun turn them down anyway? Mikkel had Sigrun's offer, but surely Reynir for one would love more adventure?)
- Sigrun's parents and/or Trond, informing her that a longship is on its way to pick her up.
- Trond in general, with a secret mission as per fanfics.
- Reynir's parents, angry at Reynir. (Seems likely to actually happen, unlikely to be shown in the comic as it does not advance the plot.)
- Reynir's sister, with an invitation for her wedding to Beefy Horse Guy. (Ditto.)
- Emil's parents, who want to know him again now that he's semi-famous and possibly rich.
- Some sort of outerwear company offering them endorsement deals.
- A rabid fan with a marriage offer.
Reynir's family: a likely issue - may include notes from both of the angry parents and the marrying sister. Emil's parents? Eh, I think they died in that fire. The company and the rabid fan sound funny...
Post by: JoB on January 02, 2022, 02:26:48 AM
So, nobody's guessing what the letter contains?Ah, durnit, I just posted a lengthy comment almost on that to Disqus ... lemme do some copypasta ...
Spoiler: shameless self-plagiarizing • show
Post by: Jitter on January 02, 2022, 05:57:08 AM
On the other hand, the epilogue is supposed to tie some of the loose ends. So, if the epilogue shows something of the future, wouldn’t that make any “this is what they’re doing next” conclusion to the story itself moot? Or will the epilogue look into the past? (Emil’s fire…) Or very distant future?
I like the last couple of pages BTW. Their arrival was very sudden, but the pages themselves are good.
Post by: tehta on January 02, 2022, 06:15:20 AM
For example, how about a mission to recover seeds from Svalbard? (I think Minna said it hasn't been accessed yet?)
Post by: JoB on January 02, 2022, 08:35:36 AM
For example, how about a mission to recover seeds from Svalbard? (I think Minna said it hasn't been accessed yet?)More specifically, she said that the post-Rash societies have not yet seen a need to pop it open. Of course, Svalbard is polar bear territory even pre-Rash ...
Post by: thorny on January 02, 2022, 09:43:42 AM
More specifically, she said that the post-Rash societies have not yet seen a need to pop it open.
That actually strikes me as pretty unlikely.
They may have enough seed without it to plant all the land that's safe to plant, yes -- but the point of that seed storage isn't quantity; it's variety. They've been dealing with a sudden change in environment including a massive change in what species are present and in what numbers (which is going to affect everything, not just mammals); probably a significant climate change as almost all human climate influence suddenly disappeared; and the results of there no longer being human supervision of large numbers of sites of storage of hazardous materials all over the planet -- some of those time bombs are most likely still going off, and while they've probably defused all the remaining ones within the Known World some of the ones in the Silent World will have repurcussions for quite a distance.
All in all, the crops and specific varieties of crops that did well in what's now the Known World in year 0 - 1 are unlikely to be the ones that will do the best there in year 90; and the ones that did best in year 10 and year 50 may not have been the same as either the best ones for year 0 - 1 or year 90. They need genetic diversity to work with; which is exactly what Svalbard is for.
Post by: JoB on January 02, 2022, 11:41:33 AM
They may have enough seed without it to plant all the land that's safe to plant, yes -- but the point of that seed storage isn't quantity; it's variety. They've been dealing with a sudden change in environment including a massive change in what species are present and in what numbers (which is going to affect everything, not just mammals); probably a significant climate change as almost all human climate influence suddenly disappeared; and the results of there no longer being human supervision of large numbers of sites of storage of hazardous materials all over the planet -- some of those time bombs are most likely still going off, and while they've probably defused all the remaining ones within the Known World some of the ones in the Silent World will have repurcussions for quite a distance.Hm, I can't quite comment on the "time bomb" part, because I honestly have no idea how much of whatever noxious substances may be in storage at any given time; I'd be pretty confident that the plants producing them aren't running and producing any more of them, however. Chemical hazmats aren't quite up to the levels of nuclear waste or biological weaponry WRT required longevity of precautions, luckily.
The rest, however, I'd like to doubt. Agriculture doesn't have much of a problem with the established fauna going away, short of the pollinators, and bees, for one, are quite cosmopolitan. And it's not like we really reacted to the ongoing climate change with the selection of plants yet AFAIK, so those changes reverting would restore favorable conditions for the long-standing selection ...
(Yes, I know that the foresters here are already running experiments with new tree species, but OTOH they think in multi-decade cycles.)
Post by: tehta on January 02, 2022, 01:19:43 PM
- [The types of plants that work best right now, with all the technology available for both farming, storage, and transport, might not be the best ones for smaller-scale and more local agriculture.
- The fact that agriculture will need to be more local will change the optimal crop selection. Currently, many regions specialize and export a lot of their produce, then import the things they don't grow. (Actually, most European countries import more than they export, don't they?) I bet agriculture is a lot more mixed post-rash. Plus, there is the fact that there are no trading partners outside the Known world, so if people want crops that were grown further south, they will have to make them work up north, perhaps in those Icelandic warehouses.
Post by: thorny on January 02, 2022, 05:29:56 PM
The rest, however, I'd like to doubt. Agriculture doesn't have much of a problem with the established fauna going away, short of the pollinators, and bees, for one, are quite cosmopolitan.
It's not going to be just a matter of no mammalian critters eating the crops. Removing almost all the mammals from the ecology is going to produce huge shock waves. Minna may not have been thinking of this; but that will throw everything wildly out of whack, and yes it will impact those species not susceptible; plants and insects and birds and fungi and all sorts of soil life normally interact with mammals as well as each other in a net of interconnections we've only recently started paying any attention to. The effects are going to be by humans unpredictable, but they'll be considerable, and will take years to settle down -- they may well have mostly worked their way out by year 90, except for some of the longest-lived species; but it's going to be a big part of what people are dealing with in the early decades.
And it's not like we really reacted to the ongoing climate change with the selection of plants yet AFAIK, so those changes reverting would restore favorable conditions for the long-standing selection ...
Much of the problem we farmers are having with the climate right now is that it's become wildly erratic. Suddenly yanking human influence out of it wouldn't produce 1950's conditions within a couple of years. The erraticness would almost certainly be even worse for a while; and when it did settle down, it probably wouldn't be into 1950's weather which had also been considerably influenced by humans even though we didn't recognize it yet; it might bounce us back to 1800's or earlier "normal", which is not really what modern varieties of crops are adapted to.
And tehta's entirely right: the varieties that work for large scale monocropping of crops grown in large part for export from their local area are rarely the ones that work best for subsistence agriculture. Most modern crops are developed for appearance, shipping ability, and high yield measured in weight per acre, and also designed to grow with considerable inputs from machinery, pesticides, and synthetic fertilizers. Producing the most nutrition (which is very different from producing the most pounds of a single crop) in a limited area, for local consumption, and with many of those inputs either unavailable or available only at high costs, really doesn't call for the same genetics. Whatever's growing in people's home gardens will be a lot more useful than whatever's being grown on the farms; but most people's home gardens contain only limited produce and no grains.
Post by: tehta on January 02, 2022, 05:31:10 PM
Post by: moredhel on January 02, 2022, 06:40:29 PM
And tehta's entirely right: the varieties that work for large scale monocropping of crops grown in large part for export from their local area are rarely the ones that work best for subsistence agriculture.
I am not sure if the best variety of plants is the main problem for agriculture in a society without today's energy intensive industry. I think nitrogen supply would be what is limiting the ammount of food you can grow. Nitrogen would be a problem. As stated here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#Economic_and_environmental_aspects (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#Economic_and_environmental_aspects) on a worldwide scale between 1% and 2% of our huge energy use is just for nitrogen fertilizer.
It has been like this in the past. In the same past where a giant number of sorts and variants of plants was grown. If it would have made much of a difference wich sort is planted there would be a few sorts of every crop in the past and not hundreds.
The climate in the post rash world should be very complicated but the tendency would be colder. Because the regrowth of forests woulc consume a lot of carbondioxide. And less humans use less coal and gas.
Post by: thorny on January 02, 2022, 07:36:30 PM
There are also varieties of crops that have lower nitrogen needs than others. Modern agriculture often uses heavy feeders because they'll give more weight per acre.
A giant number of varieties were grown in the past exactly because it makes much of a difference what sorts are grown. People were growing the ones best suited to their particular microclimate -- and I do mean micro, different varieties of potatoes, for instance, were grown at different altitudes on the same hillside farm; as well as the ones best suited to specific soil types, which in any area that's ever had glaciers can vary drastically even within one field. Modern agriculture only grows a few partly because the standard bulk market wants consistency, and partly because it aims primarily at the most pounds per acre of a monocrop -- which again, isn't the same thing as the most nutrients per acre. Aiming for the highest possible weight often results in less nutrition per mouthful; and mixing crops in the same field, as well as eating those "weeds" which are edible instead of herbiciding them, gives the greatest nutrients per acre although there will be less from any individual crop in that field.
Post by: Róisín on January 02, 2022, 11:33:57 PM
Small mixed farms are the way to go, in my opinion. I grew up on such farms in Ireland and Australia, worked on one in France as a young adult, and know well that there are many ways to improve soil fertility in the long term other than artificial fertilisers. Better for the land in the long term also. And yes, among my vegetables I grow edible and medicinal plants native to my area, including karkalla, muntries, yam daisy, native lime and bush tomato.
Post by: moredhel on January 03, 2022, 02:28:37 AM
There are crops which are nitrogen fixers: in combination with the right bacteria living in their roots, they pull nitrogen out of the air, making it available for themselves and for the following crop and/or for other crops grown intermixed with them in the field.
There are such plants. And in the region where I am from they where traditionally grown before growing wheat or barley. They where not edible but they bring a lot of nitrogen into the ground. Growing nothing edible for regenerationin in my opinion is a clear sign that nitrogen was the limiting factor for agriculture.
Post by: JoB on January 03, 2022, 02:39:05 AM
It's not going to be just a matter of no mammalian critters eating the crops. Removing almost all the mammals from the ecology is going to produce huge shock waves. Minna may not have been thinking of this; but that will throw everything wildly out of whack, and yes it will impact those species not susceptible; plants and insects and birds and fungi and all sorts of soil life normally interact with mammals as well as each other in a net of interconnections we've only recently started paying any attention to. The effects are going to be by humans unpredictable, but they'll be considerable, and will take years to settle down -- they may well have mostly worked their way out by year 90, except for some of the longest-lived species; but it's going to be a big part of what people are dealing with in the early decades.OK, that I can believe. But the minor problem with this scenario is that that entire vault in Svalbard isn't going to simply hand you proven-suitable crops for an ecosystem that just fell out of the mixer and has never existed on the planet before. In order to solve a problem of that magnitude, we'd need experiments, cross-breeding, possibly downright genetic manipulation, possibilities which the post-Rash society, reduced to subsistence farming, may simply not have ...
Whatever's growing in people's home gardens will be a lot more useful than whatever's being grown on the farms; but most people's home gardens contain only limited produce and no grains.Yes, most. But keep in mind that the survivors in the early post-Rash times had to find refuge and immediately jumpstart their own food production in pretty rural areas, which must've led them to raid however few suitable gardens they could find ... my mother always wanted to redesign our family's gravesite "medieval style", i.e., into sort of a herb-and-small-produce garden, as graveyards were (surprise!) the most nutrient-rich uncovered soils within city walls, so I guess one can find a couple such graves on every larger graveyard ... (Never got a round tuit, as we didn't live nearby anymore, though.)
Spoiler: show
Okay, let the betting begin: who will disturb Emil?The innkeeper, not speaking any other language than Finnish, will knock, come in, and hold up one of the signs he has at hand to make standard communication with non-Finns.
"FoOd?"
[cue Emil-shaped hole in the wall]
Post by: Suominoita on January 03, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
There are such plants. And in the region where I am from they where traditionally grown before growing wheat or barley. They where not edible but they bring a lot of nitrogen into the ground. Growing nothing edible for regenerationin in my opinion is a clear sign that nitrogen was the limiting factor for agriculture.Ah, but peas are edible and bring in nitrogen. Or maybe you treat it with ash or compost soil? And well, you can also have some other piece of land growing the crops while this one is getting nitrogen treatment...
Post by: thorny on January 03, 2022, 10:28:08 AM
There are such plants. And in the region where I am from they where traditionally grown before growing wheat or barley. They where not edible but they bring a lot of nitrogen into the ground. Growing nothing edible for regenerationin in my opinion is a clear sign that nitrogen was the limiting factor for agriculture.
There are also such plants which do produce food for humans: quite a lot of them. All of the beans and peas, just to start with.
Nitrogen can be a limiting factor; but it's not nearly as limiting as the fertilizer sellers want everyone to think.
OK, that I can believe. But the minor problem with this scenario is that that entire vault in Svalbard isn't going to simply hand you proven-suitable crops for an ecosystem that just fell out of the mixer and has never existed on the planet before. In order to solve a problem of that magnitude, we'd need experiments, cross-breeding, possibly downright genetic manipulation, possibilities which the post-Rash society, reduced to subsistence farming, may simply not have ...
The same problem's going to exist without Svalbard, though. Increasing the stock people have to work with, by adding in seed from Svalbard, wouldn't make it easy, but it would make it more likely to succeed.
I presume the seed stored in Svalbard includes descriptions of what's known about each variety; I doubt people would have to take things at random with no idea whether they were likely to be suited to Egypt or Iceland. They'd choose samples of varieties known to produce in difficult conditions, and in the type of difficult conditions they were experiencing. True, a lot of them wouldn't work well -- but that would also be true of what they'd scavenged out of gardens and very true of what they'd scavenged out of farms.
And experiments and cross-breeding are what farmers have been doing ever since the first people started farming. Subsistence farmers do that all the time. That's how they got all those varieties of potatoes bred for best production in each microclimate on each soil type; plus which, of course, that's how we got just about all the crops we now rely on for food, in anything remotely resembling modern form.
ETA: there are also varieties that do better than others at dealing with variable conditions. Many modern agricultual varieties are what I call "perfect conditions" crops: if they get just the right recommended dose of NPK, the right amount of irrigation water, the right schedule of application of insecticides and fungicides and herbicides: lots and lots of crop! (Very likely tasteless and low nutrition per bite, but lots and lots of crop.)
But plant those things in erratic conditions and/or when those inputs are unavailable, and they're worthless or next to worthless; while a variety that was bred many years ago to keep people from starving even when things weren't ideal won't ever produce quite as much as the perfect-conditions crops will if they get those conditions -- but will produce a fair amount of crop under a wide range of conditions.
Post by: Róisín on January 03, 2022, 09:48:22 PM
There should also be a return to serious composting, soil improvement and the ancient practice of dunging: that is, while a field is lying fallow between food crops farmers used to turn livestock into the area to forage, which meant that they cleaned up stubble or weeds and other debris from the previous crop, thereby lowering the risk of pests and diseases persisting in the soil between crops, and in Australia also for preventing stubble fires. Burning stubble in a controlled manner can be useful for destroying fungal pests such as moulds and grain rusts, but if that isn’t a problem livestock can also keep stubble low until it is ploughed in, as well as feeding those animals and fertilising the soil with their droppings. Even now most organic farmers already do this.
There are also techniques such as crop rotation to prevent a buildup of family-specific pests and diseases between years, as well as to control the depletion of specific nutrients in the soil. This basically means that plants of the same family should not be planted in the same plot year after year, for example tomatoes, potatoes and eggplant should not follow one another. Plus soil-enriching plants such as peas and beans should precede hungry crops such as cabbage or tomatoes………
Don’t start me on this topic, it is one of the things I teach as a volunteer at our local community garden, and I won’t shut up for hours!
Post by: JoB on January 04, 2022, 01:14:19 AM
Don’t start me on this topic, it is one of the things I teach as a volunteer at our local community garden, and I won’t shut up for hours![goes online shopping for an industrial-sized (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel#/media/File:Volin.jpg)-flywheel mouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_wheel)]
Post by: thorny on January 05, 2022, 09:56:39 PM
Minna has said that she will leave the story in a place where she can pick it up if at some far future time she feels like it. Now don’t get your hopes up, this is not a likely possibility. But just to take into comments about the letter. So, some sort of new job / mission opportunity seems likely.
I wonder whether she's going to leave them pretty much right here?
They're together; they're temporarily safe, or as safe as anyone is in that world. Emil's got his private bed, currently complete with sleepy cat. They're at least possibly stuck where they are for several months. As it now stands, maybe they're going to Norway, or maybe they're going to investigate this mysterious unspecified job -- and maybe it'll stay unspecified, just so that if ten or twenty years from now Minna wants to come back to this she can decide then what she wants the job to be, instead of pinning it to something specific now.
And fanfic can come up with a hundred different ideas as to what the job might be, or as to what might await them in Norway, or what might happen en route to the job or to Norway or even right where they are just now --
Post by: JoB on January 06, 2022, 01:46:49 AM
And fanfic can come up with a hundred different ideas as to what the job might be, or as to what might await them in Norway, or what might happen en route to the job or to Norway or even right where they are just now --"We need you to go to Dalsnes and bust out our mastermind Trond. He went to visit family there, and the local authorities promptly had him locked up in that retirement home (https://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=138) again!"
Post by: tehta on January 06, 2022, 05:16:24 AM
(But, allegedly, the ancient viking culture was not into (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84ttestupa) retirement homes...)
Post by: JoB on January 06, 2022, 05:30:52 AM
(But, allegedly, the ancient viking culture was not into (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84ttestupa) retirement homes...)... you mean they ran out of nurses (https://satwcomic.com/off-to-the-rave)? >:D
Post by: Róisín on January 06, 2022, 08:20:31 PM
Post by: Vulpes on January 06, 2022, 08:21:25 PM
Post by: Róisín on January 06, 2022, 08:24:41 PM
Post by: thorny on January 06, 2022, 09:43:24 PM
It's a very odd looking bear, if so; looks almost like it's made out of leaves. And it's right after the panel with the bear skulls; which presumably has been returned to for some reason?
Apparently we'll get two pages a week for the rest of January, and that if I'm reading the notes correctly before the possible one-page-a-week epilogue. So maybe there'll be more about the bear bush; though I'm no longer counting on anything.
Post by: Suominoita on January 07, 2022, 05:57:06 AM
Post by: Jitter on January 07, 2022, 07:16:19 AM
Placed with the Kallohonka panel like this I assume it has something to do with the rebirth of the bear family.
Post by: Vulpes on January 07, 2022, 06:27:07 PM
Post by: lwise on January 09, 2022, 04:28:43 PM
Post by: thorny on January 09, 2022, 06:06:17 PM
Why are people in the Discus comments talking about three cubs? I only remember two. -- hmm. Apparently while two's the most common number per birth, three and even four are possible. But I still only remember two with our particular Mamma Bear.
Post by: lwise on January 09, 2022, 06:08:34 PM
Well, it's definitely a bear. And with normal-bear eyes.
Why are people in the Discus comments talking about three cubs? I only remember two. -- hmm. Apparently while two's the most common number per birth, three and even four are possible. But I still only remember two with our particular Mamma Bear.
I think they're thinking of the Mama Bear and her two cubs all being reborn at once: three cubs.
Post by: thorny on January 09, 2022, 08:30:13 PM
It would be odd to have Mama Bear not be the mama, but the sibling, of her cubs. But maybe she'd just as soon be a cub again, and not have the responsibility for a while.
Post by: lwise on January 13, 2022, 03:59:02 PM
Post by: thorny on January 13, 2022, 04:22:46 PM
Post by: Jitter on January 13, 2022, 04:33:52 PM
Post by: lwise on January 13, 2022, 05:58:15 PM
Post by: Jitter on January 15, 2022, 03:15:02 PM
Post by: thorny on January 16, 2022, 11:36:47 PM
Or, I suppose, unless Minna's going to give us two weeks of bear fetal development. Which seems somewhat unlikely; but who knows?
-- I should go to sleep myself; though not all the way to next spring, despite the weather report (which, looking out the window, looks uncomfortably likely to be accurate. Snowing like it means it, in the Finger Lakes of New York State.)
Post by: Tarnagh on January 23, 2022, 10:12:00 PM
Oh, good. Bears for the rest of the month. *Sigh.*
From tonight’s stream, the pages we are seeing now are the original epilogue. But the upcoming “extended epilogue” is extra, and will be about the characters.If what we're seeing now is the *original* epilogue, did she seriously just drop the team while they wait until spring for a boat and that's how she intended to leave them? After all the years of emotional investment in those characters, we get a month of closure for ... the bears.
I mean, good for the bears. Yay. Truly. But ... seriously?
Post by: thorny on January 23, 2022, 11:14:50 PM
Apparently not bears for all the rest of January; at least, not unless we're about to jump to next spring.
OK, I guess it is bears for the rest of January.
(Maybe I'll be wrong again? Not that there's really enough left of January to matter.)
At least they're healthy bears; and no Surma in sight. (I hope!)
-- If this is the original epilogue: then I don't think she would, originally, have been dropping the team -- just pausing and taking a break while she geared up for Adventure 3; so she'd have been returning to them. Which is not now likely to happen.
Post by: Maple on January 23, 2022, 11:19:37 PM
I feel like this would be an excellent way to end the series (showing how, even with the world being a death world, life still finds a way) if we had gotten more closure on the team itself before this. Even ending it with "welp. gotta wait until spring to go anywhere" would have been fine if we had gotten more pages for the characters to process that this whole ordeal is over and that they actually do get to move on with their lives. We still haven't seen what Lalli and Onni think about everything, and those two (along with Tuuri) are arguably THE main characters of the series. (As it's written at least, since we only got two adventures there just wasn't as much coverage of the other four and their growth as characters.)
That said, endings are the hardest part of the story to get right, and Minna struggled with ending Adventure 1 too. So while it's a little disappointing, it's not unexpected.
Post by: Suominoita on January 25, 2022, 11:14:19 AM
Seeing all this bear stuff actually has me excited for the implications. Does it mean souls that were able to pass on can be reborn? Are we going to see Tuuri reborn as someone's future kid or something like that?
So shipping is on?
Sigrun and Mikkel sure seem like one.
If Onni or Lalli would hang out and marry a woman to have the kid with. I don't know about Onni but it seems that Lalli ends up with Emil and never so much as has an eye-contact with a woman. Who would Onni go with? The post Lady maybe?
Post by: Róisín on January 26, 2022, 05:02:50 AM
Post by: Jitter on January 27, 2022, 03:48:24 PM
I actually like this epilogue. Like someone pointed out, it's hopeful. It tells us that even this tortured world will heal, and there will be new springs and new babies and healthy animals again. Now, I would not have missed this, if we didn't get it, but as it is, I find it kind of uplifting.
Furthermore, this clearly shows rebirth, and Lalli's ritual working. If Minna felt very uneasy about the pagan content, she could have left this out. I think putting the skull up the tree was pretty much a must, but I don't think it would have occurred to any of us she had dropped a section, if she just didn't include this bit. For this reason as well I'm glad she made this.
The situation where we left the team was also ok as an ending, if there were going to be further adventures. Now, if the whole thing had completely ended here, it would have been irritating that it was so unclear where is the last moment we see the team. But hopefully the "extended epilogue" will have some merit to it. I have understood it will be showing the team, possibly hanging out during the winter.
I also think this page is beautiful. It's not the best ending I could have wished for, but it's not the worst there could be either.
Post by: lwise on January 27, 2022, 04:07:42 PM
Post by: thorny on January 27, 2022, 05:58:28 PM
If this had been the end of adventure 2 with an adventure 3 upcoming, I would have thought it was quite a good ending. As it is -- I doubt we're going to get, one page at a time between now and "spring" (what's "spring"? Equinox? Warm weather where Minna is? Something else? Minna may not have a clear idea, of course) -- anyway, I doubt we're going to get enough tying up of loose ends and insight into all the character development left out of the later part of adventure 2 to come anywhere near satisfying most of us.
However, it is what it is. And it is a nice page.
Post by: Róisín on January 27, 2022, 07:55:57 PM
Post by: Maple on January 27, 2022, 09:45:10 PM
Post by: Groupoid on January 30, 2022, 03:54:08 PM
Although lots of possible dialogue got skipped, at least the "physical necessities" (return to safety, death of Surma and Kade, release of Tuuri & Grandma) don't have loose ends.
Post by: wavewright62 on February 25, 2022, 07:22:53 PM
Spoiler: show
I know many of us have concerns about the news that Kickstarter is using blockchain, but here is the link (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiveworks/stand-still-stay-silent-book-4) anyway. I don't know any other way to get the book in a timely fashion.
Post by: catbirds on February 27, 2022, 04:22:09 PM
Everything aside, the prologue's been pretty cute so far, and I'm glad Lalli seems a bit more comfortable with the crew since he struggled with that in the beginning.
Post by: Suominoita on March 13, 2022, 09:35:07 PM
Post by: White_Tiger on March 15, 2022, 08:10:01 AM
I already have a few ideas for something to write as a continuation from here. It will have to wait for my current project to finish, but the extra epilogue should be done by that time.
Do tell - I had a similar idea.
Post by: Jitter on March 18, 2022, 03:41:59 PM
If not, why are they making such noise? Electric snow mobiles exist even now, and one of the best features is relative silence.
Post by: lwise on March 18, 2022, 04:51:47 PM
Are these snowmobiles using some kind of gasoline? Because if yes, where did that come from?
If not, why are they making such noise? Electric snow mobiles exist even now, and one of the best features is relative silence.
Maybe they run on alcohol from a still.
Post by: White_Tiger on March 18, 2022, 05:13:35 PM
Post by: Jitter on March 18, 2022, 05:53:53 PM
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 18, 2022, 07:24:01 PM
Also the addition of dry gas (usually a alcohol based chemical), can replenish. A snowmobile is a rather simple engine. It is the electronics that make it complicated. So I would assume it can be useable.
The only thing would be more smoke, as the stuff would not be pure at all.
Also, there is this petrol you can buy that is supposed to last a long time without degrading. When we bought our generator, we bought some of this in case of an emergency. So if it is that kind of fuel, who knows
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 19, 2022, 10:16:39 AM
Maybe they converted the engines to work on oil.
I don't know elsewhere, but for a while you were able to purchase kits that allowed you to change a Diesel engine to one that would use oil. In the US getting rid of cooking oil is really expensive. So places like McDonalds or any fast food place spend a significant amount of money to have the stuff hauled away.
Recyclers places won't take it, you can't dump it. So people were able to get free oil. They would just need to clean/filter it and they were good to go.
In Germany and Poland they grow lots of rapseed (canola?) for biofuel. I would think that year 90 peoples would know how and probably improve on the process (Provided they can keep the machinery going, or redevelope manual processes
You could also burn straight crude. Though it would smoke a lot and smell really bad.
Silly tangent about oil disposal
Spoiler: show
It is interesting there are ways to modify engines to use other materials.
Post by: White_Tiger on March 19, 2022, 11:20:32 AM
Post by: Jitter on March 19, 2022, 12:04:08 PM
If sufficient number of scientists and engineers have concentrated on the issue, 90 years (well, 80 or so, the Cattank is from the time of the Danish reclamation attempt) is a long while to develop something, although of course even at best the resources they can spend on it are quite meager and a lot ot the existing knowledge should have been lost. Still, Iceland has near unlimited energy from geothermal, so learning to store and use electricity in many ways would make sense.
All and all the technology level doesn’t seem to be 100% coherent. Of course with the enormity of the destruction it was also pure chance what fields endured better than others, depending on the survival of just a few or even single individuals.
I also have some ideas growing from the petroleum discussion: petroleum mines. Say a big harbor where the storage tanks were left, some have exploded but some remain. Work there is dangerous and dirty, but either a) pays very well or b) is done by a slave workforce. I have to say my train of thought is on track b and it’s a very dystopian idea. Maybe it’s somewhere else than in the Known World? Or maybe it takes place between Y0 and the current apparent stability of Y90?
I don’t think I will ever write this, I like SSSS partially because it’s not dystopian despite everything. And if I want to go nasty, I have another idea that’s been in the back burner for years. But maybe someone else is intrigued by the idea? All in all there entire “post-apocalypse junk rat” genre is waiting for the writers, largely untouched.
Post by: JoB on March 19, 2022, 12:28:24 PM
The Cattank appears to be electric, as is the Dalahästen train. The battery technology and electric motors in Adventure 1 are greatly advanced in comparison to ours, well within realm of science fiction.Plus its batteries were recharged by "a multifuel engine" (https://sssscomic.fandom.com/wiki/The_Cat-tank#Propulsion_and_Steering), again with a wide range of suitable fuels, again limited to liquids.
Post by: Róisín on March 19, 2022, 12:31:06 PM
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 19, 2022, 12:48:58 PM
It could use coal, wood etc.
My head cannon, is that They use steam as much as possible for mobile units. Though the biofuel/oil technology would be an interesting thing to pursue.
Water, sun and air for stationary things (Though solar panels are very technical and once they died, I do not think sufficient technology would remain to make more)
Also that the work of scavengers, though dangerous would yield a lot of valuable stuff.
Post by: Jitter on March 19, 2022, 12:59:26 PM
Also that the work of scavengers, though dangerous would yield a lot of valuable stuff.
Exactly! There seems to be too little scavenging, considering. Of course we haven’t seen much of how everyone else but the team lives, but also we don’t see much evidence of any such loot. Someone could become very rich, looting not just books but various resources. Or maybe Y90 is past that, I don’t know. Just the lack seems conspicuous.
Then again, this is the small peek Minna has wanted to give us into this world. We now have very near all of it to play with!
Post by: lwise on March 19, 2022, 01:31:10 PM
Exactly! There seems to be too little scavenging, considering. Of course we haven’t seen much of how everyone else but the team lives, but also we don’t see much evidence of any such loot. Someone could become very rich, looting not just books but various resources. Or maybe Y90 is past that, I don’t know. Just the lack seems conspicuous.
Then again, this is the small peek Minna has wanted to give us into this world. We now have very near all of it to play with!
My theory is two-fold.
The first point is that originally scavenging was taboo; it would bring back the technological world that was thought to have caused the Rash in the first place. It might be possible now, but a lot of what you would want to scavenge has rusted, rotted, or otherwise decayed.
The second point is that Denmark is different from, and much safer than, Sweden and Norway, because the Cure created ghosts which killed off a lot of the trolls and beasts. Natural animals could detect the ghosts (see how they avoided the ghosty building in Kastellet), but grosslings couldn't. Finland (the part we've seen) is likewise different and safer thanks to Surma, the Three Bears, and the Kade. In Sweden and Norway, the areas that haven't been enclosed and cleansed are a whole lot more dangerous than Denmark, so scavenging by individuals is suicidal.
Post by: White_Tiger on March 19, 2022, 02:01:47 PM
Not to sound too much like a Jurassic World villain but it might even have been very worthwhile to weaponize Surma. All Old Man Seagull needs to do is use a few of his seagulls to lure rash creatures into a kill zone (far away from the border, in case things go awry) and have them drop bits of sheet metal or just scream a lot and wait for Surma to arrive and duck shit up. Or, for maximum precision, have a gull personally find Surma and lead it there. If a team wants to move in and scavenge with minimal resistance, the gulls find Surma again and lead it away while the team does its thing.
Post by: NightMareMage on March 19, 2022, 07:56:35 PM
Maybe it will be like the She-ra reboot ending, where you're supposed to imagine for yourselves what happens to the character next? While not really my cup of tea, I get it.
Whatever it could be, four pages does not seem like enough time for some new important thing to happen but we shall see.
Post by: Jitter on March 19, 2022, 09:08:12 PM
Post by: NightMareMage on March 19, 2022, 11:39:17 PM
On the other hand, if it's just gonna end on a light note, it could just be fluff.
Post by: JoB on March 20, 2022, 06:22:51 AM
Water, sun and air for stationary things (Though solar panels are very technical and once they died, I do not think sufficient technology would remain to make more)Good photovoltaic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photovoltaics) panels are high tech. Thermal collectors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_collector) are essentially black pipeworks under glass, and if you want to power "a steam engine", those (and a collector fluid with a low steam point) might work just as well. Either will, however, suffer from the Nordic's latitudes.
Not to sound too much like a Jurassic World villain but it might even have been very worthwhile to weaponize Surma. All Old Man Seagull needs to do is use a few of his seagulls to lure rash creatures into a kill zone (far away from the border, in case things go awry) and have them drop bits of sheet metal or just scream a lot and wait for Surma to arrive and duck shit up. Or, for maximum precision, have a gull personally find Surma and lead it there. If a team wants to move in and scavenge with minimal resistance, the gulls find Surma again and lead it away while the team does its thing.It's established that "normal" grosslings are attracted by manmade noises, too, just not as fast as Surma. So, set up a remote-controlled Dune-style thumper in the middle of an ancient city and watch the town square troll-fill in the time Surma needs to arrive at the banquet ... ?
Whatever it could be, four pages does not seem like enough time for some new important thing to happen but we shall see."Important" can be done within half a page, just let the sentinels get off their snowmobiles and say "there's a giant the size of a mountain coming, we fled here because there's nothing we can do against it on our own!"
"Fleshed-out storyline carrying an entire upcoming adventure" is a different beast (pun intended).
Post by: Jitter on March 20, 2022, 06:52:15 AM
Still, she specifically said these extra pages are just something light-hearted and fun. So I don’t think it’s something big like that. Then again, she obviously has every right to change her mind. We’ll see, very very soon.
Post by: tehta on March 20, 2022, 10:39:05 AM
Jitter, I like your unserious predictions.
Post by: Suominoita on March 21, 2022, 12:07:09 PM
JoB, your Surma-suggestions are good ones. The team has had so much experience of 'surviving while the monsters fight' (long before Surma vs Bears, there were Dusklings vs Duskling-killer, Barbie-leg trolls vs Giant, etc.) Surely they must be aware of this as a strategy?
Jitter, I like your unserious predictions.
That doesn't mean it's easy to get Surma to kill a bear beast cub, cue the mother bear-beast killing Surma (and getting herself killed in the process). Sure, "make them fight each other and stay out of their way" is a good strategy -- if you can manage to pull it off and not have them team up against you instead.
So... what sort of "vacation" does Väinö Väänänen like? Studying perhaps? Or training of some sort? Required to meet people out of work? Why the air quotes here?
Post by: JoB on March 21, 2022, 03:36:32 PM
So... what sort of "vacation" does Väinö Väänänen like?He seems to be the nature-loving type (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdwatching).
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on March 21, 2022, 09:58:52 PM
ok I though that scavenging should be explored a little more. I came up with this on the fly. If folks are interested.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/37885927/chapters/94606966
There's another thread (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=193.0) for that.
Post by: NightMareMage on March 22, 2022, 05:48:33 PM
Post by: Jitter on March 24, 2022, 06:43:41 PM
I wonder when the Feels will hit. Right now I got almost nothing.
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 24, 2022, 09:44:13 PM
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
(TS Elliot)
(Which is waaaay better than killing everyone off.)
Post by: thorny on March 25, 2022, 12:14:35 AM
Very glad these boards will still be here, though. Hope that lasts.
-- Horrible thought for the Monday page: one of the characters from the Prologue, waking up, stretching, saying 'Wow, that was a weird dream! I almost expect the power to be off -- [turns on radio, gets entirely ordinary ads] -- nope, all seems to be normal. Better get dressed and go to work.'
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 25, 2022, 12:57:13 PM
Everyone comes with the first boat of the season. Emil's aunt/uncle, Varu (sp?), Trond, Sigrun's family, Reynir's family etc.. Any of the other people that met along the way happens to be in town.
they all meet for a welcome spring party and a group photo!!
Post by: wavewright62 on March 27, 2022, 01:59:47 AM
Dance Party
Not holding my breath, but it is traditional.
Spoiler: show
Post by: tehta on March 27, 2022, 02:39:14 AM
I was thinking that with Väinö coming by for "vacation", I can see this as a last page:
Everyone comes with the first boat of the season. Emil's aunt/uncle, Varu (sp?), Trond, Sigrun's family, Reynir's family etc.. Any of the other people that met along the way happens to be in town.
they all meet for a welcome spring party and a group photo!!
Taru!
It would be nice to see everyone! Not sure about Reynir's family though, as one can't exactly sail away from a sheep farm. I can totally see the Organizing Committee showing up, since they seem to really want Our Heroes to do their next mission.
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 27, 2022, 09:33:18 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on March 28, 2022, 04:06:51 AM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/5c0169ea3dcb9ceccd67e033f85d2400/b2f42e07907d6e59-dd/s2048x3072/3ea46b2f72e3100fe846a24402b688c3f1ef0d4b.jpg)
Two words:Dance Party
Post by: Keep Looking on March 28, 2022, 04:58:06 AM
Post by: tehta on March 28, 2022, 06:23:14 AM
Post by: dmeck7755 on March 28, 2022, 07:59:03 AM
Post by: Jitter on March 28, 2022, 02:19:17 PM
Post by: JoB on June 04, 2022, 03:37:26 PM
There's a couple interesting things in it, for example, the ~1 page on Gävle and the list of annual special events make no mention whatsoever of the goat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A4vle_goat). And if you think that the kitchen sink psychology of The Many Different Nationalities of the World (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=67) page is an over-the-top satire ... you may want to think again. :-[ :fremdschäm:
However, what prompted me to publicly admit perusing books I've grabbed for free :kroner: :3 is that apparently, there used to be a real-world counterpart to the poste restante system (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=538) seen in the comic, only that it was not run by Posti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posti_Group). To quote:
Quote
In Finland, foreigners have the possibility to have mail sent to the Finland Travel Bureau in Helsinki, where it will be handed out free of surcharge Monday through Friday between 08:30 and 17:00. For the address, useThe Bureau still exists at the same address, save for the PO box number apparently having been shortened to "319" (and the int'l standards now asking to drop the "SF-" and instead put the country name IN UPPERCASE), but I could not find any indication that the service has survived into any mentions on the WWW ever ...Quote(Name of recipient)
c/o Finland Travel Bureau Ltd.
Mail Department, Box 10319
Kaivokatu 10A
SF-00101 Helsinku 10
Suomi/Finland
Post by: thegreyarea on March 14, 2023, 09:02:03 PM
Also JoB, as always quite interesting. I suppose one day people may eventually look the same way to that odd habit of people (mostly from the previous century) writing actual letters...
And you all gonna laugh, but it took me more than a year to notice the presence, on SSSS' last page, of our seagull mage Vaino? ;D He sits on the right, next to a window, getting ready to satisfy the hunger of a thousand beaks!
Post by: Róisín on March 14, 2023, 09:37:18 PM
Post by: JoB on March 15, 2023, 05:54:25 AM
Poste restante was certainly a thing in the real world when I was travelling, and when I lived in the serious Outback, and may still be for all I know. I think it may still be available in Australia, certainly it is in the Outback, in small-town post offices such as in the little bush town where I now live, or general stores that handle mail for their local areas. Whether this is just country tradition or whether it is still the usage in cities I do not know.The entry on Wikipedia's page on poste restante (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poste_restante#Australia) actually has something to say about that. In fact, glancing at the other entries in the per-country list, it seems to be a service that usually gets offered throughout a nation's PO system, rather than only in hotspots (rural areas?) requiring it.
It also mentions that Finnish Posti is running such a service now, so I assume that that's why the lone Travel Bureau office in Helsinki stopped offering it. Though I suspect that a poste restante offer to Tourists may well set itself apart from Posti's offer by a longer retention time than 14 days ... It seems quite interesting to compare the retention periods in various countries, too ...
I suppose one day people may eventually look the same way to that odd habit of people (mostly from the previous century) writing actual letters...I do work in the "hybrid mail"¹ business in Germany and have to admit that I had no idea that Deutsche Post has a poste restante system running ...
¹ "Hybrid" because companies shove their outgoing mail to service providers electronically, where it gets preprocessed², printed, enveloped, confirmed back to the sender, and sent on its merry way, to be received on paper.
² As in, checked for deliverability (will the recipient address sit properly in the envelope's window? Are the parts of the cover page where the printing provider needs to put his additional barcodes left white?), consolidated (multiple letters to the same recipient are made into a single sending, potentially reducing identical supplements to only one copy), channeled specially (recipient recognized as someone who can be reached by different, usually electronic, means), Restmengenfüller (add other supplements as the weight limit of the postage class permits), drop a copy into the sender's archival system, ... - our main business.
Post by: Jitter on March 15, 2023, 02:53:33 PM
Post by: Róisín on March 18, 2023, 07:29:15 AM
Post by: Groupoid on January 06, 2024, 06:07:06 AM
I did a reread of parts of the comic and came across the dream-quarantine (adv. 2, p. 115 (https://sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=115)).
I recall there being a comment of the following sort, but I can't find it anymore. So I'll post it here.
An itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny
two-times blinky karanteeni.
Post by: Jitter on January 06, 2024, 08:02:38 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on January 07, 2024, 01:05:51 AM
Not sure about the rhyme? "Two times blinky" karanteeni... You've got the right page but that comment isn't there at all, nor on the next page.
On the other hand, there are sonnets and good wishes for Rachel McGonagall's health. Wow.
Further research would be needed, as I'm now thinking it was posted here in the Forum, or the Discord.
Post by: JoB on January 07, 2024, 05:21:01 AM
You've got the right page but that comment isn't there at all, nor on the next page.There are six deleted comments on the page, with no replies indicating that someone felt offended by whatever the poster wrote. I remember at least one longer-standing poster not just leaving the comic after a disagreement, but deleting the Disqus account (and all their posts along with it). In particular, deleted post #4524216171 seems like a good candidate for having contained the poem ...
Further research would be needed, as I'm now thinking it was posted here in the Forum, or the Discord.Nothing that the forum search could find for me ...
(Disclaimer: I'm not subscribed to the age- or otherwise restricted groups.)
Post by: Groupoid on January 08, 2024, 02:44:58 PM
I also wish you a good new year. It's nice to see that the forum is still alive and I'll surely visit it again from time to time.