I'm hoping that Emil will not lose his sense of haughtiness, only tone it down a bit. Maybe in the future, he will have the skills to back up that pride. Hopefully, he will get over his sudden shock about the troll and turn into a "Roy Mustang". Cackling, prideful, and a total pyromaniac. And still trying to communicate with Lalli, but to no avail.
One thing he has learned is to always wear his bed belt!I think Emil is arrogant primarily because he is naive. He's not a bad person, he simply isn't aware of other people's problems (or that his own problems can be kind of petty in comparison). I feel like getting to know the other characters' backgrounds will wake him up to the harsh reality of the world he lives in--but I think it will also take time for him to start catching his own mistakes and actually losing some of the arrogance.
Okay, but in all seriousness, Emil is an interesting character. Yes he's self-absorbed, rude, motivated by all the wrong reasons, a pyromaniac, and condescending, but he still manages to be nice to and protective of the children and Lalli. A lot of characters are either one or the other. It really makes you wonder why a person seemingly motivated only by money and self-image would risk losing that to protect those people. What reasons does he have to do that?"
I quite like Emil and I'm not sure where his hate comes from.
I quite like Emil and I'm not sure where his hate comes from.
I absolutely adore him. I think the hate comes from his air of entitlement and the fact that some of his behavior is insufferable in a way that is very hard to put up with in real life. I think if that's all there was to him, I'd get tired of him relatively quickly. What I like about him is that there's definitely a compassionate streak under that self-absorption. It makes me wonder how much of his less appealing qualities are thanks to his upbringing.
It'll be fun to see what happens to him once he gets a few doses of reality and is forced to grow up a bit. I suspect that if we'd met Emil prior to his 2 years with the army, he would have been TRULY insufferable.
Okay, but in all seriousness, Emil is an interesting character. Yes he's self-absorbed, rude, motivated by all the wrong reasons, a pyromaniac, and condescending, but he still manages to be nice to and protective of the children and Lalli. A lot of characters are either one or the other. It really makes you wonder why a person seemingly motivated only by money and self-image would risk losing that to protect those people. What reasons does he have to do that?"Personally I think he simply subscribes to old fashioned chivalrous principles, which includes standing up for and protecting those "weaker" than oneself.
Emil was driven to the military. This was not something he chose and it struck me as utterly fascinating that Torbjorn waited until right before they left to tell Emil about the money-making end of the venture. The reason he jumps at it isn't as simple as wanting to regain what he lost, it represents why it was all taken from him in the first place. Emil is the victimof his aunt and uncle's disillusionment, and I think that's important to keep in mind when not just looking at him, but Torbjorn and Siv as well.That is a very good point and one that I did not consider. It is certainly true that it would be startling to grow up with wealth only for it to disappear one day. Everyone acts strangely when they are out of their element. For Emil, his comfort zone is wealth. It is more than just a matter of pride or greed, it's a matter of lifestyle. He's trying to restore not just his own wealth, but also the wealth of his family.
The one thing I've always wondered about is yes, Emil has a great relationship with his younger cousins, but his relationship with Torbjorn and Siv must be really interesting, since from all I can tell they're the ones responsible for bankrupting the family financing this little venture-- or at the very least bankrupting him by defunding his fancy, private education.
still though, my point stands that it was greed and disillusionment that drove Torbjorn and Siv to use what they had left to put together this little expedition in the first place-- and let's not forget that the money making bit is pretty much illegal the way they're trying to do it, since it's been established that the Swedes, at least officially aren't as concerned about preserving what they can of the old world as much as they are interested in burning it all and starting anew.a) I'm still not convinced that Emil has any claim onto Sivs and Torbjörns (erm) wealth, much less authority to tell them not to spend it on whatever they like. They know each other well, as Emil was a guest in their house during his academic (erm) career, but no relation beyond that and bloodline has been established. Not even of the "met at infrequent clan get-togethers" kind.
I just always assumed that the "financial misfortune" applied to the entire family, since when wealthy families go bankrupt like that it tends to be a domino effect depending on how tight-knit the family is. That's why I originally postulated that whatever happened to make them loss all that money was at at most directly or at least indirectly related to why Emil couldn't pay for school. When we first meet them, Torbjorn say "we're" poor now" -- I took that we to mean him and the rest of the immediate family (brothers, sisters, nephews et al.)Well, that whatever caused the loss of wealth affected the entire family as far as we know it - read, the married couple Siv and Torbjörn and their kids on one hand, and Emil on the other - is all but said out loud in the comic. And considering that the legalese in our day and age doesn't allow clan liability makes the actual events ever more mysterious. Nonetheless, Siv calls the house in Mora "the only nice thing we still possess", while Emil's official residence is still someplace else, even though he already lived in the Mora house at one point. Also, no hint whatsoever that one side ever even tried to influence the other's ways of making a living (a.k.a. "get a real payin' job ferchrissakes"). Hence my impression that even though a single event made them all poor, they do not consider themselves joint households (as our IRS would call it).
Also my point about Emil's protectiveness was that it wasn't trained but that it was probably always there to some degree.
Well, that whatever caused the loss of wealth affected the entire family as far as we know it - read, the married couple Siv and Torbjörn and their kids on one hand, and Emil on the other - is all but said out loud in the comic. And considering that the legalese in our day and age doesn't allow clan liability makes the actual events ever more mysterious. Nonetheless, Siv calls the house in Mora "the only nice thing we still possess", while Emil's official residence is still someplace else, even though he already lived in the Mora house at one point. Also, no hint whatsoever that one side ever even tried to influence the other's ways of making a living (a.k.a. "get a real payin' job ferchrissakes"). Hence my impression that even though a single event made them all poor, they do not consider themselves joint households (as our IRS would call it).
This just makes me want a reveal somewhere down the line of what exactly happened to the Vasterstrom fortune* gasp * Plot development? Perish the thought! ::)
now I'm just curious about how the post-cataclysmic Swedish economy actually works. Was it old wealth the Vasterstroms relied on (passed down through generations), was it some type of business venture that had been stable until some unforseen misfortune?In the prologue, the Västerström family was fitted into a car and fleeing to a "cabin" (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=41), which doesn't suggest that they had considerable possessions anywhere within the forming safe areas. Chances are that news junkie Stig ran an early predecessor of Torbjörns explorer expedition ... or Ulfs talent for sports bets suddenly did touch the jackpots, once the apocalypse did some radical simplifications on the leagues. ;D
In fact he seems to be more fit than his two current companions.
I'm not so sure the "very unfortunate events" that lead to the Västerström family wealts dissappearing were the fault of Siv or Torbjörn. I have this feeling it was actually caused by Emil himself, why else would he be so very concerned about what the info sheet said about him (page 133) (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=133)?
why else would he be so very concerned about what the info sheet said about himUmmmh, nah. My impression is that if he suspected his file listing that caliber of a blemish, he'ld want Tuuri not to read it, ever.
... but I think the reason Emil was so anxious to find out what was written about him is because, well, he's Emil. He freaked out about discovering an unsuspected stain on his shirt, he had to make sure he doesn't have an unsuspected stain in his file.
Ummmh, nah. My impression is that if he suspected his file listing that caliber of a blemish, he'ld want Tuuri not to read it, ever.
Well, that whatever caused the loss of wealth affected the entire family as far as we know it - read, the married couple Siv and Torbjörn and their kids on one hand, and Emil on the other - is all but said out loud in the comic. And considering that the legalese in our day and age doesn't allow clan liability makes the actual events ever more mysterious.
One likely possibility is that Torbjörn's parents/Emil's grandparents were the source of the family fortune, the children and grandchildren were having their lifestyles fundedThe most probable explanation, I'ld say. However, note that Emil was born (and IIUC still lives) in Östersund, a settlement of 750 souls. If that's not where his rich grandparents live(d) as well, why would a filthy rich Västerström make that his home? And if it was/is, wouldn't Emil have eventually moved to near cleansers HQ in Mora when the family mansion was undubitably taken from them? I don't quite see Emil and his parents being entirely living off an apanage 'til that crashed.
I suspect Torbjörn wasn't exactly an advanced scholar given that his post-bankruptcy job didn't look like all that much. I got the feeling that putting in a full day's work and being held accountable for it was something that he was finding to be an unpleasant and very new reality.This certainly puts a new spin on the marriage dynamics between him and Siv. We don't know if they got married before or after the money vanished, but if it was before, imagine her disappointment. I imagine she makes more money than her husband, also - since he is just a skald and she seems to be at least somewhat-better paid as a medical researcher.
It's possible that all of the Known World's military powers have the same tailor, but it seems a bit odd.
This certainly puts a new spin on the marriage dynamics between him and Siv. We don't know if they got married before or after the money vanished, but if it was before, imagine her disappointment.
Huh. That is, actually, a possibility. I can just see little Emil, trying to tell whoever's cutting his hair OMG, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG LET ME SHOW YOU, BUT ON YOUR HEAD. Alternately, I can imagine the...interesting cuts that could come with his first few attempts at being King Haircutter. XDHehehe probably there'd be lots of screaming. From both the
Betty Adams • 2 days ago
For all of his awkward, brash pride Emil has proven to A) be good with children and B) seems to genuinely care even for people he suspects of not thinking too highly of him (Lalli) And it is too adorable watching him comfort Lalli when the nightmares come. :)
Well, up till now, the only cases when he has been angered by something is when he feels he has been wronged or tricked.
Like when he thought his teachers were giving him low grades for no reason, and when he thought his uncle and aunt had neglected to meet with him. And when he was suspicious that he wouldn't get a fair share of book-money.
Coupled with his panic wherever he fails to make a good impression, my guess is that he is rather insecure (of course he KNOWS that he's awesome, but he has to make sure that OTHERS know it as well)
Most of his "Jerk" attitude might be "This is what people percieve as cool and in control right?" instead of just insecurity.I definitely agree! Given how obsessed he seems to be with making the right impression on people, it's entirely possible that a lot of what he does is trying to act like a cool, knowledgeable guy without anything to really back that up.
Well, not might be, Is. I know ive been in those shoes before.
I definitely agree! Given how obsessed he seems to be with making the right impression on people, it's entirely possible that a lot of what he does is trying to act like a cool, knowledgeable guy without anything to really back that up.
Yep. Compare Emil's showing Tuuri the sights of Mora in Chapter 2, vs. explaining to her how hard Danish is to understand.
[...]
In the second case, he was trying to extrapolate from too little knowledge
Yep. Compare Emil's showing Tuuri the sights of Mora in Chapter 2, vs. explaining to her how hard Danish is to understand. The first was adorable because he knew his stuff (like the little Dala horse figurines) and seemed perfectly happy to play tour guide for hours.
In the second case, he was trying to extrapolate from too little knowledge, and that's when he put his foot (or rather, fist) in his mouth. At least he had the decency to be embarrassed when he got caught doing his Danish impression...
Generally, when he thinks he has to impress people, or is out of his depth, is when he gets in trouble.
Emil--like any reasonably-intelligent kid with genuine interest in academics and the undivided attention and resources of his teachers--learned quickly and did well in his studies.
P.S. FWIW, I don't buy the theory that Emil's parents were overbearingly attentive or smothering. If they were, wouldn't you think we'd hear something about their thoughts on, oh, their darling boy signing up for the branch of the military so hazardous it invalidates your life insurance? Couldn't we reasonably expect to hear something pained from Torbjorn about how his relationship with Emil's dad--his brother, presumably--has been strained ever since he found out about Torbjorn coercing his only son into going on a suicidal mission into monster territory? But no, not a thing. In my opinion, either Emil's parents are a particular combination of impractical and flighty that means they'd take the first excuse to not worry about any of it, or Emil's pulled a Hannu and has as little contact with his parents as he can manage--up to and including lying and hiding things from them to keep them off his back. I'm leaning to the former.They may not have meen overbearingly attentive, but they still might have coddled him. "Our son is the best, even if we hardly spent any time with him. Allow him to do whatever he wishes!" Or: "Our son HAS to succeed, so MAKE SURE he'll get the best grades or you're fired!" Or even: "We don't give a sh*t about our son, let's just pay someone to tutor him and if his grades aren't good we'll just get another tutor."
You forget :P Emil is the kind of person who thought it was impossible to get bruised on YOUR FACE. The sentece "reasonably-intelligent kid" flies right out of the window XDHmmm! Wild sleepy theory here: what if the parents' non-presence is connected to the family's financial catastrophe? (I'm imagining Emil's parents taking all the wealth and making a run for it X'P but I'm kind of sleep-deprived...)
Plus his conversations with his aunt and uncle and the way they treat him imply that he makes a lot of stupid mistakes very often.
They may not have meen overbearingly attentive, but they still might have coddled him. "Our son is the best, even if we hardly spent any time with him. Allow him to do whatever he wishes!" Or: "Our son HAS to succeed, so MAKE SURE he'll get the best grades or you're fired!" Or even: "We don't give a sh*t about our son, let's just pay someone to tutor him and if his grades aren't good we'll just get another tutor."
However, I have a feeling his parents didn't get to say much. For once, he was already a soldier and was bount to go to the front lines. In contrast with Tuuri, who was safe in the town, and Lalli, who had a relatively simple job of scouting a familiar area again and again and again, Emil's job would be extremely risky either way (yeah, it's even more risky now, but anyways).
Also, there is always the possibility that the parents simply aren't around any more. Else, it would be quite possible that Emil would say to his uncle to regularly talk to his dad and give him news or whatever.
Hmmm! Wild sleepy theory here: what if the parents' non-presence is connected to the family's financial catastrophe? (I'm imagining Emil's parents taking all the wealth and making a run for it X'P but I'm kind of sleep-deprived...)
I can't remember if this has been mentioned (I should go back and re read to be sure, but I'm so tired I'll do it tomorrow and delete the post if it's irreverent. Shame on me) but wasn't there some history of gambling in the family? From Old Grandpa Västerström in the prologue at least. Maybe that's involved? Maybe.
OOOOOOOOOH YOU ARE RIGHT. This must be it! They gambled all their money away!! Even their cousins' money! Shooot!Hehe maybe a family fortune from a lot of gambling flukes, because the grandparent-gamblers didn't really know anything about the sports they were betting on :P
I wonder what Emil's parents did after that, though. Committed suicide? Ran away? Went in prison? Were forced to *gasp* work?
I wonder how they got the money in the first place. Did they sell the original car? Or gambled and actually won?
Hehe maybe a family fortune from a lot of gambling flukes, because the grandparent-gamblers didn't really know anything about the sports they were betting on :P
I'd like to think the parents ran away with a suitcase of money to some far away place, never to be seen again o___o I'd like to think they ran away to a tropical island but....this is SSSS... ;P
Probably they're just too embarrassed by their sudden descent into peasantry (whyever that may be) that they've become recluses in their own house, hiding away selling the heirlooms in the hope that things will go back to normal and they can hold soirées again ;)
I hope they're not cold people, but to me it feels like Emil either doesn't regard them very highly, (he never mentions them in any way that I can recall) or he didn't have a lot of interaction with them?
It's a mystery...
I'm not quite sure how the idea that Emil's teachers uniformly praised him regardless of merit actually got so well-entrenched. It was never spelled out that way in the comic, and it's not at all necessary to explain... well, anything about him. Here's an alternate explanation: [...]*shrug* So they weren't flat out lying to Emil's face about how great a pupil he is, but simply didn't do their job (because even if they all agreed that Emil was going to be a scholar for the rest of his life, it'ld still be virtually mandatory to put Icelandic language into his curriculum so that he can even communicate with his peers-to-be other than in a one-on-one-and-please-use-my-language fashion, and when it comes to learning languages, there's a substantial penalty for delaying it). Can't say that that makes me think that much better of them.
[Questions about "university".]
You forget :P Emil is the kind of person who thought it was impossible to get bruised on YOUR FACE. The sentece "reasonably-intelligent kid" flies right out of the window XD
Plus his conversations with his aunt and uncle and the way they treat him imply that he makes a lot of stupid mistakes very often.
They may not have meen overbearingly attentive, but they still might have coddled him. "Our son is the best, even if we hardly spent any time with him. Allow him to do whatever he wishes!" Or: "Our son HAS to succeed, so MAKE SURE he'll get the best grades or you're fired!" Or even: "We don't give a sh*t about our son, let's just pay someone to tutor him and if his grades aren't good we'll just get another tutor." [...]
I was thinking that his parents would be embarrassed by their loss and became recluses, too. They're probably not cold people - they might be very shallow though. Emil has a shallow nature, but he also seems to try not to be so shallow - like he has some knowledge of morals. I assumed that Emil's shallowness was because of the shallowness of his parents, that it was something Emil was just exposed to growing up, and can't help but be a little offensive sometimes because he grew up around people who were shallow and judgmental.
Also, I always hear that rich people's children have less contact with their parents than average children who go to public school because they'll just be thrown with a tutor or a nanny (when they're young), leaving the parents to do what they please. I think Emil just never had a lot of contact with his parents. (And maybe he'd be more shallow and offensive had he spent more time with them...? I dunno.)
*shrug* So they weren't flat out lying to Emil's face about how great a pupil he is, but simply didn't do their job (because even if they all agreed that Emil was going to be a scholar for the rest of his life, it'ld still be virtually mandatory to put Icelandic language into his curriculum so that he can even communicate with his peers-to-be other than in a one-on-one-and-please-use-my-language fashion, and when it comes to learning languages, there's a substantial penalty for delaying it). Can't say that that makes me think that much better of them.
Heh! *shoves the fifty pages of rambling she's written on this topic at you*
Frankly, my guess? Chemistry. Aside from the obvious (highly exothermic reactions ohoho!), it just seems... appropriate for him in a way that I can't quite put my finger on. Though I also considered something like music. I'd say piano, but I'd be shocked if any of those were still around. Violin, perhaps. And his somewhat, ahm, grandiloquent speaking style suggests an interest in literature as well.
Heh! *shoves the fifty pages of rambling she's written on this topic at you* Frankly, my guess? Chemistry. Aside from the obvious (highly exothermic reactions ohoho!), it just seems... appropriate for him in a way that I can't quite put my finger on. Though I also considered something like music. I'd say piano, but I'd be shocked if any of those were still around. Violin, perhaps. And his somewhat, ahm, grandiloquent speaking style suggests an interest in literature as well.Chemistry would fit! But it doesn't sound like something a well-to-do young gentleman could use to woo a well-to-do young lady-- if that's even one of the family's motives X'P
I don't quite have a speculation to what subject Emil studied, but I'm assuming it was something nontraditional by the way he talks about the public school system on page 134 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=134), and how they were "pushing [him] away from academia." Of course, we don't know what they commonly teach in public schools in year 90, though...Yes! :3
*snort* I'm talking "reasonably-intelligent" in terms of actual intelligence--I didn't say he has the slightest bit of common sense, because he clearly does not. In terms of intelligence I've got him pegged for slightly above average: he's clearly quite articulate in his native Swedish, and demonstrates a broad vocabulary and an ability to retain a lot of random information (as when he's playing tour guide for Tuuri). Plus he enjoys reading and academics, which is not something you enjoy if you aren't good at it. He's not near as bright a spark as, say, Tuuri, but he can keep up.
And oh yes, I've no doubt that his parents coddled him in one way or another--and all of the examples you gave would fit with Emil's personality and the very little we know about his parents. They just strike me as... hmm. Peculiarly neglectful. The two can--and often do--go together.
Oh, sorry, I measure 'actual intellgience' by the amount of common sense, and from what I've seen, he is a complete idiot. It's not just that he thought that his face was made from a different material than the rest of his body. He does a lot of thinks without THINKING first. He assumes things (which turn out to be wrong), speaks without thinking twice (and insults people in the process). Sure, when he tries his best to make a good impression he is a lot more careful, but it seems that when he relaxes, he just floats to his own stupid world and stops thinking.Hehehe yeah. This is sadly probably certain. It was fun to hypothesize alternatives though ;)
These are all qualities that would lower his 'actual intelligence' as YOU mean it. He wouldn't ponder enough on any (test or not) question before answering it. He wouldn't try to see a problem from different points of view. He wouldn't see things collectively. He would make wrong assumptions. Sure, he may speak Swedish well, but being good in your native language does not make you 'slightly above average smart'. How is he in math? Physics? Other languages? Does he write poems?
Besides, the information he told Tuuri was about his native country and a city he had lived in for a large period of time. These are not signs of great memory. It seems Swedish are proud of their achievements in the post-rash world, and therefore quite natural that they tell their kids all the time how great they are. Emil would hear about these things very often.
I'm not sure why you assume he enjoyed reading and studying. Yes, he said that he is a 'brainiac', but I don't take his opinion seriously on the matter. I think he just meant that he is 'super smart', what with 'excelling with no effort at all'. 'Excelling with no effort at all' can mean two things: a) you are a freaking genius. In that case he would have continued excelling in the public school. b) Your teachers gave you straight A's for no reason. This seems more likely to me.
Also: when Emil stopped his country-bragging to ask about safety in Tuuri's home, I thought "wow, he is sensitive! He is clearly an idiot in other ways, but he is social-smart to recognise social cues and their hidden meaning! Wow!"
After telling Mikkel that basically "I'm not sure what you said, but what I understood was lousy" I reconstructed my point of view. He is an idiot in all ways! And I suspect that his own parents may have died, which made him more sensitive to recognise uncertainty and fear in the well-being of others' families... Hense realizing that Tuuri's... interest in safety came from actual experience.
Well, if his parents weren't neglectful, they would notice they were doing a lousy job, wouldn't they?
Hehehe yeah. This is sadly probably certain. It was fun to hypothesize alternatives though ;)
I'm always reminded of that tale about the emperor-guy's new clothes...when there weren't actually any clothes. :/
Haha that story always confused me! Didn't the emperor even feel cold? XD His stupidity was epic level! :PHe probably thought the clothes were super fancy airy fabric, the best money could buy ;3
Eh, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. As I said before, I do NOT equate intelligence with common sense, either in this situation or in general. I've seen a lot of very smart people--several of my siblings come to mind--act very, very stupid in a large range of situations. I've seen those same idiotic siblings catch on to complicated physics concepts with breathtaking speed. Intelligence and common sense just do not necessarily come together. Thinking before you speak or act, for example, shows that you are a cautious and sensible person, not that you are a genius. In short--book smart ain't the same as street smart. So no, none of those qualities you listed would lower his "actual intelligence" in my mind, any more than they would for a real person. People are a lot more complicated than that.
As for the other: I assume he enjoyed reading and studying because, from his own descriptions, he intended to spend the rest of his life doing it. I don't know what his tutors were teaching him, but unless it involved no actual books or research or studying at all, I'm gonna assume he stuck with it for so long because he genuinely enjoyed that sort of thing. And given that the comic has no answers to questions like whether he writes poetry or how good his memory retention is on topics not related to how awesome Sweden is, I'm going to take the information we do have and interpret in a way that both fits the story so far and makes me happier than the alternatives.
But I have a counter question for you: why are you assuming, when he says he was a genius and excelled "with no effort at all", that he personally believes that to be true? Couldn't he just as easily be, for example, playing things up and exaggerating his own excellence in order to impress the people around him, as we've seen him do over and over and over throughout the comic so far? It would fit his personality and behavior just as well if not better.
I'd like to think that even just for comedic value, his academic specialty is something really obscure and specific, but might actually come into use during the Expedition.Sounds like macroeconomics, aeronautics and spacecraft design, and "irgendwas mit Medien", then. :P
Eh, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. As I said before, I do NOT equate intelligence with common sense, either in this situation or in general. I've seen a lot of very smart people--several of my siblings come to mind--act very, very stupid in a large range of situations. I've seen those same idiotic siblings catch on to complicated physics concepts with breathtaking speed. Intelligence and common sense just do not necessarily come together. Thinking before you speak or act, for example, shows that you are a cautious and sensible person, not that you are a genius. In short--book smart ain't the same as street smart. So no, none of those qualities you listed would lower his "actual intelligence" in my mind, any more than they would for a real person. People are a lot more complicated than that.
This is perhaps more to do with his emotional balance than his intellectual capacity: he suffers from a very fragile and over-inflated ego and perhaps somewhat poor impulse-control. He is anxious, so he tries to large himself up and put others down. This is so typical of many young men!
Back to Emil: we have yet to see how his abilities truly pan out. We know he has a high opinion of his academic abilities and he suggests his parents felt the same, and we see (repeatedly) that he can be quick to criticise and fails to think the criticism through. This is perhaps more to do with his emotional balance than his intellectual capacity: he suffers from a very fragile and over-inflated ego and perhaps somewhat poor impulse-control. He is anxious, so he tries to large himself up and put others down. This is so typical of many young men!
At the same time he is caring and - when in a situation where he feels confident - friendly and kind. He is also capable of bravery.
He first of all needs to learn to keep his mouth shut when he is uncertain of what has just been said, and he also needs to achieve something that will toughen up his fragile ego. Perhaps Mikkel really does need to give him a knock or two; and Emil needs to do something worthwhile! I hope that with a few rough edges knocked off and some genuine achievements under his belt he might turn into a very worthy person.
[Plus there is always the possibility that he inteded to spend the rest of his life studying because he never made any decisions for himself? Or because it was the easy way to spend his time? Or because he didn't care since he had money? Remember, he said that he succeded with no effort at all. Someone who is interested in something DOES put more efforts in it.]This is what I thought - that he was intending to spend the rest of his life as an academic because it was something he was used to doing. He may have been interested in his studies, but how interested could he be if he describes joining the cleansers as his "true calling"? Do you think if he was so intent on being an academic, regardless of him being in public school, that he would be so interested in the military?
2A- Eldest: His failure in the academic field he was "excelling" in for so long could be a sign that this was a path not traveled before for children in Emil's family, with no role model knowledgable of the situation (that we know of) to guide him through academia, and only his own unsuccessful self instead, his inevitable failure in academia would make sense.Regarding the first statement, I believe it was the public school system that led him to failure (too lazy to check right now), which was something completely new to his family anyway. Maybe he has a large family outside of his immediate relatives (maybe he has a lot of cousins? who knows), which could explain the 'good with kids' thing. I also think that by joining the cleansers, as they are so dangerous, he could be a wonderful role model for kids - he'd come home and they'd be all, "Wow Emil, you're so brave and awesome!!"
This may explain why he is so good with children, but doesn't explain why (asides from pyromania and glory-seeking) he would leap at the chance to join the highly-dangerous Cleansers if there are littlies waiting for him to come home.
2B- Youngest: Slightly more probable than being the eldest, because if there were older and more successful siblings, then this may explain the absence of parental interest and why he was ushered into a field that he was clearly not suited for but undertook nonetheless; because it was what his older siblings had done.
Being the youngest would also explain his "need" to prove himself and set himself apart from the rest of the family, or even just be noticed by them. And could explain why he gets along with children, because young relatives tend to get along most of the time...plus this would give him a chance to be the eldest of the bunch.
I tend to still lean to him being an only child. Someone, maybe me, said before that he could just not be close to his parents because they'd always leave him with a nanny or a private tutor, as I'd think of a stereotypical rich family - a possibility for him being an only child.
...
Maybe he has a large family outside of his immediate relatives (maybe he has a lot of cousins? who knows), which could explain the 'good with kids' thing. I also think that by joining the cleansers, as they are so dangerous, he could be a wonderful role model for kids - he'd come home and they'd be all, "Wow Emil, you're so brave and awesome!!"
I tend to still lean to him being an only child. Someone, maybe me, said before that he could just not be close to his parents because they'd always leave him with a nanny or a private tutor, as I'd think of a stereotypical rich family - a possibility for him being an only child. We know his parents certainly let him be flexible with his studies - maybe that was a tactic to keep him interested in something and away from them.Oh hai, yup definitely. That makes sense :3
Regarding the first statement, I believe it was the public school system that led him to failure (too lazy to check right now), which was something completely new to his family anyway. Maybe he has a large family outside of his immediate relatives (maybe he has a lot of cousins? who knows), which could explain the 'good with kids' thing. I also think that by joining the cleansers, as they are so dangerous, he could be a wonderful role model for kids - he'd come home and they'd be all, "Wow Emil, you're so brave and awesome!!"
I do agree with you on the idea that he may feel the need to prove himself or get noticed, as he does say, "Once I'm a famous hero, they'll all regret doubting my excellence" (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=134), albeit not referring to his family, but the same idea essentially.Anyway, I'm reading these threads at 3 AM, my brain isn't working properly. I'm sure my insight's faulty.
Where's the vote-up button? Your post deserves a vote-up!I concur.
While I'm thinking about it, it seems to me that Emil's brushing-off of Mikkel's recounting of the Battle ofIsandalwanaKastrup is in character both for someone his age & for Emil specifically.
Meanwhile, thanks for the kind words. I have vivid dreams myself whenever my daytime emotion/data buffer is overloaded, so I can guess what the kid's dreams will look like.
Unfortunately, my drawing abilities stop at "Hangman."Same here. Grrrrrrr.
I think Emil is going to have some extremely freaky dreams after this day (in-story) is over.
One thing the last few pages have made clear is that Sigrun is trying to get Emil to step up, as we know he will eventually. The question is how/when it'll happen.
Thoughts?
My thoughts are that Emil's not going to step up this early in the game.
I mean, this is still the first day on the job, and Emil doesn't seem like the kind of person, to me, who would suddenly be able to jump into badass-action-mode. Of course adrenaline could do this, but it's not likely to make him a super-confident fighter.
I get the feeling that on this latest page Sigrun is hoping for one of 3 things to happen, 2 of which would progress Emil significantly IMO:
1) Lalli & Emil are bait (no significant development)
2) A "The Last Starfighter" scenario where, when confronted with an enemy, Emil emerges as a great fighter (significant development)
3) (my personal preference) A "Lambert the Sheepish Lion" moment where, when confronted with Lalli's imminent death, Emil goes berserker on the troll.
One thing the last few pages have made clear is that Sigrun is trying to get Emil to step up, as we know he will eventually. The question is how/when it'll happen.
Thoughts?
What are you talking about? :P Lalli will probably kill the beastie in secs :P Using magic. Leaving Emil speechless.If it's a tiny beast, maybe. He did nothing to the troll on the train (although he was being restrained at the time).
If it's a tiny beast, maybe. He did nothing to the troll on the train (although he was being restrained at the time).
Yeah, Minna said that in the train he couldn't use magic or do soul-guiding because of reasons. Maybe he has to find a nature spirit or something? (Also, I keep wondering why his Kuutar spell was overwhelmed by the weather).
Even if he doesn't use magic though, I'm sure he can slice into ribbons with his knife.
Do you happen to have a link for that? I don't go into the Disqus comments much...[Expands lots on Minnas Disqus page (https://disqus.com/by/minnasundberg/)]
[Expands lots on Minnas Disqus page (https://disqus.com/by/minnasundberg/)]
... umh, I remember the statement that there were reasons, too, but it apparently wasn't on Disqus ...
It wasn't :PAhh, okay! I do remember reading that, now. Thanks!
http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=174
It's in tha page description!
Here I go thinking again…
I already put this in the page comments, but I'll restate it here: What if Emil never gets over his panicky fear of grosslings, but, when confronted by one, goes into a psycho-zombie-like kill-kill-kill-kill mode, utterly slaughters the grossling, and lapses into near catatonia afterwards, like on the train?
(This has the added benefit of maybe having Lalli as the only one who can bring Emil out of the kill-kill-kill mode.)
FEED MY SHIIIIPPP.Can we help you?
I'm assuming that the "gentle, but firm" approach is probably a standard in the Norwegian armed forces, as simply trying to instill bone-tough discipline just won't cut it when your enemy is an unending legion of Eldritch abominations. It'll whittle away at your humanity and sanity, slowly but surely.
Sigrun is probably the best thing to happen to Emil. Ever.Yes, definitely!
Sigrun seemed to take a liking to him right off the bat, which I'm kinda assuming is because she probably enjoys the attention that the inexperienced young-uns give her.
She also seems to be generally understanding and accepting of his inexperience and clumsiness, knowing that a gentle yet firm hand is the best way to bring about his potential.
Some gallows humor and learning an enjoyment for "the hunt" is probably how Norwegians go about it just to keep their minds intact.
I imagine this mindset is eventually going to start rubbing off on Emil due to Sigrun's influence.
There may be no guilt involved with the trolls, but the fear factor would still be enough to drive a person mad. Always something new, yet terrifying and disgusting. All shapes and sizes.
a) I'm still not convinced that Emil has any claim onto Sivs and Torbjörns (erm) wealth, much less authority to tell them not to spend it on whatever they like. They know each other well, as Emil was a guest in their house during his academic (erm) career, but no relation beyond that and bloodline has been established. Not even of the "met at infrequent clan get-togethers" kind.
b) I can list a great many things that the society around me is indifferent about, or would even frown at, but nonetheless aren't outright illegal. I guess that it would be technically illegal for the Quartet to make money off a government-funded expedition, hence the hush-hush, but da guvmint ain't necessarily setting the moral standards for Joe Sixpack.
I think Emil is going to have some extremely freaky dreams after this day (in-story) is over.I think we should keep a running total of the events that are going to have happened to Emil today. It's going to be a busy one, that's for sure.
He's been through a roller-coaster of emotion, starting with being shocked awake by the proximity alarm;
[snipped for space]
I suspect his dreams will look like something out of Hieronymus Bosch as his subconscious tries to process all this.
Emil as a villain? Maayyybe.
Minna does her best to keep us intrigued, as always :D In my humble opinion, if Emil eventually does something that would make him a "bad guy", he'd do it not due to abandoned and malignant heart, but because of some instant impulse. Or pride/greed/vain that he'll fail to control. He doesn't strike me as villainious type, but with a well-plotted story you can hardly guess from the first glance who is who, right?Exactly my opinion.
I'm kind of surprised that this has gone mostly uncommented, but on the Chap. 7 cover comments, Minna slipped this in...I kinda interpreted that in the way that his Cleansing isn't so great for books XD and that he might burn down a library or something... /Technically/ making him the team's own villain?
"Fear not, Onni could never be a villain. He's too much of a wimp.
Now <i>Emil</i> on the other hand..."
Emil as a villain? Maayyybe.
Emil might not be a bad person, but he certainly has a sense of vanity, ambition and entitlement that might lead him to make very dumb decisions.
*pokes head in* For the longest time I had a headcanon that Emil had a big shaggy pet dog when he was particularly little--it's the sort of thing that impractical parents with a lot of money to spend would do to spoil their kid post-Rash--or that if he didn't, he wanted one.
The recent pages have given me ALL the justification for this headcanon now! \o/
*pokes head in* For the longest time I had a headcanon that Emil had a big shaggy pet dog when he was particularly little--it's the sort of thing that impractical parents with a lot of money to spend would do to spoil their kid post-Rash--or that if he didn't, he wanted one.
The recent pages have given me ALL the justification for this headcanon now! \o/
So here's a writeup I did on Emil a long while back that I'd like to re-post here:Spoiler: This got long • show
At any rate, yeah, I really like Emil. He's so, so flawed, yet at the same time so, so likeable, and we've seen so much character development from him over only a few days, comic-time.
I would not be at all surprised if Emil had been bullied and pranked, both in school and in the army.
...rereading the comic I can't help but notice how downright condescending his uncle and aunt can be when they talk to him, and find it incredibly sad that the people who should be most supportive of him seem to be the ones who are least willing to give him a chance.Actually, while I agree that Torbjörn is both condescending and dismissive of Emil, it almost seems like Siv, while still treating Emil as not terribly bright, enjoys him more than her own children ("I think it's so cute that you don't know how distances on a map work!" vs. "Go hang on your father, please!").
...I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's used to having each and every mistake held over his head.Also, his "I could run for hours" is probably a reflection on the military solution to fitness problems: DO IT MORE, which might stick in his mind as another example of having his failures held over his head.
Actually, while I agree that Torbjörn is both condescending and dismissive of Emil, it almost seems like Siv, while still treating Emil as not terribly bright, enjoys him more than her own children ("I think it's so cute that you don't know how distances on a map work!" vs. "Go hang on your father, please!").
I agree that Torbjörn is both condescending and dismissive of Emil
Oh, wow. So here we have more evidence that the Vasterstrom family just seems to have an all-around history of bad parenting. :(
Besides that Emil can't put a foot in his mouth (at least not verbally), he wasn't scared off by Lalli's initial attitude, which might have happened if he knew that Lalli was actually judging him. He was ridiculously concerned of what his new teammates were talking about (him), but seemed to believe in second impressions as long as he wasn't clearly and verbally rejected.
So, another gap in Emil's "education", or a genuine case of his linguistic tone-deafness converging with the Swedish-Danish divide?
Just because I'm in the mind to do some looking back…
"These aren't even words!" - Emil, Page 246 (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=246)
According to Google Translate, "antigravity propulsion" is "antigravity fremdrift" in Danish, but in Swedish, it's "antigravitations framdrivning".
So, another gap in Emil's "education", or a genuine case of his linguistic tone-deafness converging with the Swedish-Danish divide?
I think the capacity for heroism has always been in him, just never been given opportunity to bloom. He's doing okay!
Definitely. The cool thing about Emil is that he never was *just* Glamour Boy - there's this side of him that wants to do well and help others (and Lalli most of all :P) and will go to great lengths to do so. And this is not some new development, we knew it all along - remember him shielding Lalli from train troll?
Ah yes, point about the train. It's interesting that he hasn't shown this regard for any other (human) member of the team. (I know, I know, the shippers have seen this all along. I really have a squick about most shipping because it's usually based on the fact that two characters exist, with that fact alone being enough to send people into paroxysms of florid fantasy.) If Emil really was all about going heroic over vulnerable teammates, he'd have been protecting Tuuri.
Definitely. The cool thing about Emil is that he never was *just* Glamour Boy - there's this side of him that wants to do well and help others (and Lalli most of all :P) and will go to great lengths to do so. And this is not some new development, we knew it all along - remember him shielding Lalli from train troll?
we (the readers) were told and shown that he is/can be a jerk, but then soon after we see that he does things that completely contradict the "jerk" mold.
Some people really are jerks in some circumstances, and genuinely heroic in other circumstances.Very good point! Emil definitely seems to be a good example of this.
For that matter, I've known people who would get all worked up, loudly, over extremely minor things, but in any real emergency would become calm reliable rocks that could be leaned on.
Humans are weird, and complicated.
Anyway, I bet he wouldn't have complained about funky smells in this moldy old house even if Sigrun had been there to hear it.... He's grown so much ;v; *proud sniffle*
This is what intrigued me about Emil right away. How we (the readers) were told and shown that he is/can be a jerk, but then soon after we see that he does things that completely contradict the "jerk" mold. We knew right away he was, and is, one of those characters with very deep, hidden depths. I am so happy he has come this far in being able to be himself around people who care for him. I look forward to his growth in the future.
Anyway, I bet he wouldn't have complained about funky smells in this moldy old house even if Sigrun had been there to hear it.... He's grown so much ;v; *proud sniffle*
Emil Vasterstrom. Oh, Emil. Our favorite gasbag and clueless pretty-boy. If he feels self-conscious, it may be because he somehow senses thousands of readers glued to the one-way glass, eagerly waiting for him to be ridiculous (or sparkly) again.
Richard Weir kicked off the Character Development series with these questions:
What developments do we see in [this] character? What life lessons does he learn? What do his actions and words tell us about his personality and past?
Oh, my, the young gentleman has a lot of life lessons to learn, starting with not being arrogant, presumptuous, and condescending. Especially to new teammates whose skills and life experience could surpass his, even if they do come from some impoverished foreign backwater. Or to petty functionaries with the power to confiscate his precious, precious explosives. Or train guards who are all incredible badasses under those Jolly Coachman uniforms. We haven't yet seen Emil defer to anyone. So I don't have a good feeling about his interactions with Captain Eide, whose madcap expressions in preview shots imply that she won't have much patience for His Pompousness.
On the other hand, Emil is genuinely fond of his little cousins, and they of him, which is endearing. He can't be worrying about his dignity all the time if their favorite game is "hairdresser salon." Besides, a strong sense of noblesse oblige isn't always bad. He went charging into the Breach because he thought Lalli needed rescuing. And... (thinks hard)... on the Mora train he quietly fetched more sandwiches for the Hotakainens after Lalli ate the filling from his. (OK, the plot's going to require lots more redemption for Emil.)
His motivations are pretty transparent: Money and glory. And explosions. Oh, and looking fabulous. He has very little curiosity about the mission or the Silent World (despite being a self-proclaimed "brainiac").
Curiously for someone so into his own looks, he doesn't seem interested in impressing anyone else (ladies OR gentlemen). I like to think that Emil has his life all planned out; when he's 30, he intends to find a bride of suitable breeding, wealth, and beauty, and until then devote himself to his career.
I'll be deeply interested to see how the first troll encounter changes him. I'd like to think he becomes a wiser and more prudent Cleanser, not deeply phobic or a total braggart about how he, personally, gave that troll its last, fatal blow. But -- naaaah.
I know! When I consider what I wrote about him in kicking off this thread, over 3 years ago, I feel I really short-changed him:
in order to dream about the fire in the distance Emil must of seen it in real life.
Huh?
I dream about all sorts of things I haven't seen in real life. Some of them couldn't exist in real life.
I agree that he might have actually seen the fire; but his dreaming about it doesn't prove it.
you can't dream of a face you haven't seen before.
I don't mind my comment being moved to the dream thread if people want to do this.
-- although this is kind of off topic for the thread, isn't it? should we take it over to the weird dreams thread?
I can if you like, and y'all want to pursue the topic - shall I?
I've moved the recent posts to the latest page discussion thread so please feel free to continue the discussion there :))*salutes* Thank you.
(I'll delete this post sometime tomorrow once everyone interested has had a chance to see it)
My head canon is that those buildings we see on fire in Emil's dream are part of the Vasterstorm estate. His father and mother were abest because they were trying to put the fire out (or got caught in it).I'm afraid that at least for his dad, Sofia [fandom nickname] states (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=805) that his absence is a much more frequent event ...
I'm afraid that at least for his dad, Sofia [fandom nickname] states (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=805) that his absence is a much more frequent event ...
(Also, whatever befell the Västerström family, it turned Torbjörn and Siv poor as well (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=99), which seems a bit out of range for a single fire destroying the home of Emils family in Östersund when T&S still hold on to (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=130) their house in Mora. It'd have to be the very source of the entire family's wealth, like a factory, while a large-scale horse breeding enterprise would easily, and almost necessarily, be too decentralized to turn ablaze as a whole.)
I also think Emil's mom might have been long gone before the family tragedy. His father is mentioned several times but his mother is not mentioned even once. She wasn't home while his father was mentioned to be away in the dream sequence. And in the family tree his parents are... they just have the saddest faces in the entire family tree. (http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=629) In any case, I don't think Emil grew up having a mother. I hope the dream sequence continues and we find out more about him! I just love him.
We know very little about the immunity rate in non-human mammalian species.It's canon (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=457) that in the 90+ years since the Rash, at least the shorter-lived species managed to establish entirely immune colonies in the wild.
Making an immune stallion or Mare incredibly valuable and rare.And yet, work horses are said (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=128) to be much cheaper than machines ...
Also the whole immune vs non-immune thing is probably was more complicated than a simple matter of recessive and dominant allies.Minna is unwilling to nail down the mechanics of the Rash, so it'll remain guesswork forever. A strictly recessive trait would allow for the Dagrenning Program's basic assumption, and making it sufficiently multi-allele would explain how immunity was so rare in Y0 without the traits promptly going extinct.
In the bit about the Dragrenning Program it’s presented that 2 immune parents will have immune offspring 100% of the time. That doesn’t fit with what I remember about punnet squares.
Unless immunity is a recessive trait. But I’m betting that it’s more complicated than that, because that would be too simple and boring.