Writers' Corner

[LooNEY_DAC]

So, I put everything I want feedback on (so far) up here on AO3, to give you guys more options for feedback.

[LooNEY_DAC]

Another futile call for feedback (though there is some "new" stuff, too)...

Spoiler: Lotsa links • show

Spoiler: The Coin, the Sword, and the Medallion Series • show

THE BOOK OF THE COIN:
C1: The Undesired Princess & the Enchanted Bunny
C2: The Contest
C3: The Undesired Princess & the Enchanted Bunny (Again)
C4: Portents (4/8 done)
C5: Wandering (3/8 done)
THE BOOK OF THE SWORD:
S1: The Advent of the Sword
S2: Realms Above
S3: The Ship/Shape/Span of the World, by a Spick
S4: The Undesired Princess & (You Guessed It!) the Enchanted Bunny

Spoiler: Other Stories • show

This Is No Edgar Rice Burroughs Story!
The Literate
By Io's Soft Glow

[LooNEY_DAC]

So, do any of the denizens of the Forum have anything to add to this discussion, which I think is at least noteworthy?

[RanVor]

Hi, I've just found this thread and I wanted to share my thoughts on the question of whether a character can exist separately from the setting (yes, I know it's long overdue, but I can't help it, having only now found my way here). Because I believe it is, in fact, possible for a character to exist outside a single setting, under two important conditions:
1. They have to be designed to operate separately from the setting. If you want to use your character in several settings, they must be conceivably able to act beyond the bounds of the setting they're introduced in.
2. They must be a static character. That's because the character development is inherently related to the plot, and the plot is inherently related to the setting. And while I think it's possible to carry over character development between settings, I don't think it should be done, because it would inevitably result in a lot of confusion on the readers' side.

A few of my characters are shared between all of my main universe's settings,  and while my settings are of course designed to accommodate them, I believe a character like Death could conceivably fit into pretty much any story with fantasy/supernatural elements.

[Windfighter]

Is this where we whine about our writing process? Because I just started a new story and it was supposed to be a short simple Emil/Lalli hurt/comfort story. I had it pretty much laid out. Not the exact details but the very basics I need to get a story and actually get it together pretty well.

But then

Just as I sat down and started writing

My brain just went "but what if we make it Lalli/Reynir instead"

The very basic is still gonna be pretty much the same but now I need to get it to work in a slightly different way and instead of just being simple hurt/comfort it started out angst... How do you all handle your brain suddenly deciding to take stories in a different direction? =/

[Róisín]

If my brain does that to me when I am writing, I save the draft I have in case the new path turns out to be a dead end, then follow the path my brain suggests. Sometimes the brain can come up with remarkable things!

[AndrogynousAutarch]

Personally, I've been at odds with myself as a writer. My nature and interests tend toward some specific subjects and themes, but sometimes I wonder If I should be challenging myself more as a writer.

For example:

I start with what is supposed to be a simple story about two people falling in love.

The result:

One of them is from a totalitarian police state that has encroached on and invades different peoples and moves on like locusts and the other's family is part of a movement that may have its own ambitions regarding this state.

It is not long before themes of totalitarianism and anthropolgy get in there and copious amounts of otherworldly elements. I realize that it may be the stuff that I'm reading that's getting to me, but still. It's not uncommon for me to take a simple subject and fill it up with me-isms. This is also good though, as it works to make my work distinct and unique.

On the one hand, I could sharpen and specialize myself and on the other I could diversify my content and subject matter.

[Jitter]

One thing you might like as a an exercise / challenge for yourself could be to participate in the little art challenges we have here. We’ve done it for chapter breaks lately, as well as the recent YoinkTober. Both writing and visual arts (as well as any other media) count. Write a short vignette on each prompt, using the SSSS (or ARtD) world and/or characters. This will keep you from wandering off to your recurring themes, and is low effort so works as quick practice. Plus it’s great fun, if you choose to share your work

Prior to SSSS I was frankly derisive of the whole idea of fanfiction, but having tried it I love it! It’s so much easier to get started with an existing world, characters and audience that knows them. Yet still fanfiction is not really bound by the canon, so it allows a great variety!

Pleased don’t be offended, I understand you do proper writing and take it seriously. I’m not suggesting you should switch to fanfiction! But the little challenges could be nice and easy snacks!

[AndrogynousAutarch]

I suppose I was intending to get in on some fan activities while here. Sure! That sounds like it will work. Minna and I seem to share some interests.

[tehta]

So I have already blathered all over the fanfic forum, but I might as well push up my post count by poking in here, too.

I would absolutely love to discuss the craft of writing (my stuff is mostly lighthearted, but I am pretty cerebral about how I put it together).

Are any of the challenges still happening?

[Jitter]

We currently (until the end of Sunday today) have a Chapter Break Filler ongoing on the Events board. Due to reasons of privacy and admin consideration, the Events board is visible for users with a minimum of 10 posts. So, you’ll be able to see it soon!

Current prompt is War / Peace (so either or both). The break will be over on Monday, but works can be added next week too - in fact I have hopes that at least a couple of more works are in the making.

We usually have a challenge for the breaks as well as several other times around the year. We’ll see how it goes this year with YoinkTober (you’ll see soon) and Advent Calendar. I hope we can keep them up, although the fandom did take a major hit with the “bunny comic” early this year (let’s not discuss that here, there’s a thread for the bunny comic and a few threads about Forum / fandom future elsewhere, if you need any pointers let me know).

[LooNEY_DAC]

Resurrecting this thread to vomit out my thoughts on a specific story type that seems to me to be denigrated or disregarded entirely in modern "how to write" literature et al, sparked by the declaration at a panel at a conference for writers that "the hero must choose to commit to the story"; being a natural contrarian, I immediately thought, "when did Dorothy make any such 'choice' in the movie The Wizard of Oz?" So here's some less-than-coherent thought on the matter.

Narratives of necessity

Narratives of necessity: protagonist is thrust into the situation of having to act; if they chose something, the choice seemed innocuous until they were too far in to go back, or the choice wasn’t a choice; singular objective (usually “survive”); only way out is forward/through; important thing is: they are home at the end, whether original or made (why “horror twist” ending is unsatisfactory and unsatisfying); NOT Hero’s Journey for protagonist (maybe for side character(s))

Usual structure: prologue showing “normalcy”; disaster strikes/the gauntlet is thrown; alternating challenges and downtime; the last hurdle; ending (see below)

Variations include: multiple protagonists w/potential group problems; no bad guy; multiple bad guys; pick up allies on the way; pick up bad guys on the way; split group so intercut between plot lines

Ending 1: Back home: the protagonist has overcome everything thrown at him and returned to where he was at the beginning (probably improved circumstances).
Examples: the Wizard of Oz; Finding Nemo; Back to the Future; Forbidden Planet; Nothing but Trouble; TRON; Escape from NY/LA; XXX; Return from Witch Mountain; Minority Report; Star Trek (films); the Prisoner; Speed; Predator; Jurassic Park; Sean of the Dead; Commando; the Terminal; Krull; Hakon Hakonsen

Ending 2: Still trying: the protagonist has overcome the current obstacles, but still needs to make their way home.
Examples: Flash Gordon; Lost in Space; Sliders; ST:Voyager; Nowhere Man; the Lost Continent

Ending 3: Here to stay: see subtypes below.
A: the protagonist has overcome all the obstacles, but finds a compelling reason to stay/return.
Examples: Lone Star Planet; The Time Machine (film); Kindergarten Cop; American Dreamer
B: there was never any chance of returning, just surviving/building a new life for themselves.
Examples: Buck Rogers; Lord Kalvan; Planet of the Apes (film); Terminator franchise; Total Recall; the Running Man; Bourne franchise; Charade; most robinsonades
C: the whole point was to get away.
Examples: the Horse and His Boy; Escape to Witch Mountain; the Mysterious Island; Swiss Family Robinson

Ending 4: Everybody dies: Either the final obstacle requires a heroic sacrifice or there’s a twist ending (usually unsatisfying and unsatisfactory).
Examples: Impostor; Phantom of the Paradise; most zombie movies

Well, there's as much as I've articulated on the matter. Does anyone else have thoughts they wish to share?

[Keep Looking]

I think it's an interesting story type if done correctly, because it reflects a lot of real-life experiences where you don't exactly choose for something to happen, but life stuff happens and suddenly you are having to react to and deal with events you did not want or anticipate.

I feel like there are a lot of criticisms of "story where the protagonist just reacts to events and doesn't actively choose them", but like - people make choices in their reactions. Reactions of necessity to adverse events can tell you a lot about someone's character. There's something compelling about a narrative of survival.

Stories where the protagonist actively chooses to go into their situation often give the reader a kind of hero fantasy - "imagine if you had this power/agency, or made these choices, or were able to enact change in this way". I feel that stories where the protagonist reacts to adverse events prompt the reader to ask different questions of themselves, such as "what would I do if I was in their situation".

It's interesting, at any rate. Potentially the pushback against this type of story is something cultural - in western culture particularly I feel that we have ideas of individualism and particularly the power of individual choice and agency and enacting change. You have to have a character enacting agency over the story. Narratives of necessity give the individual less power over the circumstances they find themself in. Not necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion.