Author Topic: General Discussion Thread  (Read 2374295 times)

JoB

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17595 on: September 10, 2017, 11:12:34 AM »
Is it wrong that I now want to call Iceland "Nordic Japan"?
I feel it might be wrong on at least two levels.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17596 on: September 11, 2017, 10:22:15 AM »
So they ran a DNA test on a viking warlord's remains and proved it was a woman. "The discovery marks the first genetic proof that women were Viking warriors" http://nypost.com/2017/09/08/viking-skeletons-dna-test-proves-historians-wrong/ Somehow thought it might be relevant to this fandom :D

Basse

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17597 on: September 11, 2017, 10:54:16 AM »
So they ran a DNA test on a viking warlord's remains and proved it was a woman. "The discovery marks the first genetic proof that women were Viking warriors" http://nypost.com/2017/09/08/viking-skeletons-dna-test-proves-historians-wrong/ Somehow thought it might be relevant to this fandom :D
Ugh, that helmet though and it's from a video game.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17598 on: September 11, 2017, 11:05:03 AM »
Ugh, that helmet though and it's from a video game.

I know. I just mentally block horned helms whenever I see them and sometimes forget how annoying they are for many people. Sorry for subjecting you to this :P

Róisín

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17599 on: September 11, 2017, 11:11:44 AM »
Yeah, I saw that article, but couldn't figure out how to put it up, because links don't generally work for me. You have to wonder how many other women are out there unnoticed.

Edit: found another article on the subject, a bit deeper, which also mentions that chemical analysis of samples of her bones suggested that she had been all over Europe.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:21:20 AM by Róisín »
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Basse

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17600 on: September 11, 2017, 11:13:02 AM »
I know. I just mentally block horned helms whenever I see them and sometimes forget how annoying they are for many people. Sorry for subjecting you to this :P
Nah I've already seen another artical using the same image so it's cool, I'm not that troubled by it.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17601 on: September 11, 2017, 04:57:25 PM »
Though people seem a little quick to make all kind of deductions about this woman based on the content on the tomb. I am not even saying that no this woman wasn't a warrior, it seems fine that she was, but the exact content of the tomb is not necessarily reflectice of the life of that woman — it might be simply reflective of local burrying rituals.

And I know the way this argument is usually brought up is quite sexist since it's usually along the line of "ah but you see women burried with weapons was only symbolic they weren't really warriors", but the problem with this argument is actually not the line of reasoning itself — it's the double standard of applying this argument only to women, whereas you can make the exact same argument for men of course!

You can see this in the situation where sometimes, you find two burial sites in the same region, that might have belonged to two different communities. In one site everyone is burried with weapons, in the other no one is burried with weapons. Does that mean one community was full of warriors and the other had no warrior? No, it means one community burried its dead with weapons and the other didn't — this doesn't actually tell us a lot about what the dead did when they were alive (regardless of their gender).

What is more interesting to know in these cases is the forensic state of the remains. If there are traces of injuries inflected by weapons (healed or not), this is more indicative of the person having actually been a warrior (though their absence doesn't rule it out, of course).
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Róisín

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17602 on: September 11, 2017, 07:31:26 PM »
I did read a couple of more serious articles on this find, and apparently the old healed bone damage is there.

But yeah, regional or tribal differences in burial custom and usage, the presence or absence of grave goods, and the nature thereof, can make interpreting burials very difficult. For instance, in the Inland of Australia, a number of tribes practiced burial by exposure. Basically the body was placed in a high tree, or up on high rocks in areas that don't have trees, to be taken back by the earth through the media of sun, wind, rain, insects and birds. The process was accompanied by songs, marks carved into the tree or stones, and either loud mourning or silence, whichever was the local usage. (In other areas a body might be buried, burned, or otherwise dealt with, with or without grave goods.)

Outsiders tend to think of the Aboriginal people as a single culture, but this is not so. There were hundreds of tribal groupings spread across a huge continent, with languages and customs as different as those found across Europe or Asia. Depending on the area, the body might simply be left there. Or once the flesh was gone, the bones might be collected and painted with ochre, tied into a bundle, re-exposed at another site, decorated or not, buried or put into a cave or a rock hollow, or placed with the other dead of the person's family, or even carried about with the family for a time, or buried at a site where the tribe frequently camped.

There were ways of preparing the bones which were different for child or adult, respected tribal elder or outcast, harmless person or one who might leave an evil ghost - the rituals for making sure a dead kadaitche didn't follow the tribe were especially complex, presuming the tribe knew he had died.

So yeah, with those examples before me, I can quite understand that burial customs might be a very hard knot for the archaeologists and anthropologists to unravel! But female warriors do turn up in the sagas.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17603 on: September 11, 2017, 10:00:03 PM »
You have to wonder how many other women are out there unnoticed.

In all sorts of fields; and in multiple cultures.

Róisín

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17604 on: September 12, 2017, 12:58:54 AM »
True that. I personally have known a number of female artists/writers/composerswho had to work under a male name to get their work out there at all - including myself, when younger.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17605 on: September 12, 2017, 07:32:28 AM »
I know. I just mentally block horned helms whenever I see them
What about aRTD's? >:D
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17606 on: September 12, 2017, 08:23:43 AM »
What about aRTD's? >:D

I just mentally block horned helmets that pretend to be viking whenever I see them.

There, I fixed it, though it should have been read in context ;) I'd also argue that the ones in aRTD are headdresses rather than helmets. There are plenty of horned headdresses that I enjoy.

thorny

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17607 on: September 12, 2017, 10:15:08 AM »
True that. I personally have known a number of female artists/writers/composerswho had to work under a male name to get their work out there at all - including myself, when younger.

In addition to that important issue: in any given generation there seem to be people who are known at the time to be female, and considered at the time to be doing important work -- but when later generations decide what canon and what historical information to teach and to discuss, the women somehow mysteriously disappear.

In cases in which the surviving records are scanty, that's likely to mean that they've been disappeared permanently.

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17608 on: September 12, 2017, 11:51:10 PM »
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Xavier renegade angel has reawoken me to the existential crisis I've just barely gotten over in the years.


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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17609 on: September 13, 2017, 12:10:54 AM »
/>

Xavier renegade angel has reawoken me to the existential crisis I've just barely gotten over in the years.

You take that back to the darkest depths of the ssss discord chat where it belongs... :'D O_O
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