The Stand Still, Stay Silent Fan-Forum

General => Language Board => Topic started by: ianazavi on October 03, 2014, 02:24:00 AM

Title: Learning Russian
Post by: ianazavi on October 03, 2014, 02:24:00 AM
IMPORTANT!!! THIS FORUM DOES NOT KNOW RUSSIAN LETTERS
THINKING OF HOW TO FIX


If you would like to get the "task" - let me know

Hey to all you nice people who want to share their knowledge and help all of us communicate better.
I think helping each other learn new languages is a great idea, so I'm starting this topic for RUSSIAN.

I'll be posting some basic info and tasks for you to complete.

I've also noticed that there are a few other native Russian speakers around here. It'd be great if you could help out :)

Also, I would really love to see someone starting something like this in another language! I would really LOVE to learn something new. ANY LANGUAGE!  ;D

SO HERE WE GO

The russian alphabet

??- Pronounced like the "a" in the word "father" or "car". It is not the 'flat' "a" sound you sometimes hear in words like "cat" or "flat".
 
?? - Pronounced like the "b" in "bat". (Equivalent to the english letter "b").

?? - Pronounced like the "v" in "vet". (Equivalent to the english letter "v").

?? - Pronounced like the "g" in "go". (Equivalent to the english letter "g").

?? - Pronounced like the "d" in "dog". (Equivalent to the english letter "d").

?? - Pronounced like the "ye" in "yes".
 
?? - ? ? - Pronounced like "yo" in "yonder" or yo-yo but shorter

?? - Like "s" in "measure", "pleasure" or "fusion" or like "g" in colour "beige". (As there is no english symbol for this sound, it is usually represented as "zh")

?? - Pronounced like the "z" in "zoo". (Equivalent to the english letter "z").
 
?? - Pronounced like the "i" in "taxi". (Sometimes equivalent to the english letter "i", the short 'ee' sound.). (Note: The hand-written form for "?" looks a little like the english "u").

?? - This letter is used to form diphthongs. So "o?" is like the "oy" sound in "boy" or "a?" is like the "igh" in "sigh". Think of yikes! or Yellow... so I guess this letter relates to Y in some cases.

??, Pronounced like the "k" in "kitten" or "kangaroo". This letter replaces the english "c" sound in words like "cat"

??,  Pronounced like the "l" in "love". (Equivalent to the english letter "l").

??, Pronounced like the "m" in man. (Note: Unlike english, the hand-written "?" should always start from the bottom)

??, Pronounced like the "n" in "no". (Equivalent to the english letter "n").
 
??, When stressed, it is pronounced like the "o" in "bore". When un-stressed it is pronounced more like the letter "a". (See later notes.)

?? - Pronounced like the "p" in "pot". (Equivalent to the english letter "p").

?? - Pronounced like the "r" in "run", but it is rolled. (Equivalent to the english letter "r").
??, - Pronounced like the "s" in "see". (Equivalent to the english letter "s"). (It might help to remember that it's used like the "s" sound in the english words "centre" and "cent".)
 
?? - Pronounced like the "t" in "tap". (Note: The hand-written (and italic) form is "?". It should always start from the top, as it looks quite similar to the letter "?")

??, - Pronounced like the "oo" in "boot" or "root".

??,  Pronounced like the "f" in "fat". (Equivalent to the english letter "f").

??, - Pronounced like the "h" in "hello". However, this is often pronounced more like the "ch" in the Scottish "Loch" or German "Bach", or the spanish "x" in "Mexico".

??, -  Similar to the "ts" sound in "sits" or "its".

??, - Pronounced like the "ch" in "chips" or "church" .

??,  -Pronounced like the "sh" in shut.

?? - Pronounced like "sh" but with your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Try putting your tongue in the same position as you would to say "ch" but say "sh" instead. English speakers may find it hard to define the difference between "?" and "?".

?? -The 'Hard Sign' is rarely used. It indicates a slight pause between sylables.

?? - Pronounced like the "i" in "bit" or "ill". (Said with your tongue slightly back in your mouth.)

?? -  The 'Soft Sign' makes the previous letter 'soft'. Think of the "p" sound in the word "pew". (Try inflecting a very slight "y" sound onto letter before it.)

?? - Pronounced like the "e" in "fed".

?? - Pronounced like the "u" in "universe". (Pronounced much like the english word "you").

?? - Pronounced like the "ya" in "yard".


FIRST TEST

TRY to GUESS what these words are. Keep this task interesting for others - don't post the anwsers here - send them via PM. This is for getting a grip on some of the letters.

????

????

????

?????????

???????

?????????

??????????

?????????

?????????

??????

??????

????????

????

????????

????

????????

?????????

?????

??????

SOME RUSSIAN

?????? - Hi

???? ????? - My name is

? ????? ???? ?????? - I love this comicbook


End of lesson 1

Will try to find russian keyboard for u!

Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: ianazavi on October 03, 2014, 02:33:05 AM
Ok, this will have to do 4 now :(
(https://freelanguage.org/files/resource/russian-alphabet_omniglot-com.png)

(http://www.eslteachersboard.com/webbbs/images/o/pic211.jpg)

Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Headfinder on October 03, 2014, 12:57:39 PM
You should record some of those sounds (if not all) on vocaroo (http://vocaroo.com/), like the "shch" looking leter
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Bobriha on October 03, 2014, 02:57:01 PM
You should record some of those sounds (if not all) on vocaroo (http://vocaroo.com/), like the "shch" looking leter

I think, this video
may be useful for it.

Also in Russian not all the words sound the way we spell them. For example, in words like ???, ????, ???? (another try to use cirillic skript :) ) consonant on the end of the word actually sounds voiceless: [???], [????], [????]. It becomes voised if we add some vowel ending or suffix: ???a, ??????? etc.
Another example: o and e sound [ o] and [e] only under strike. Word ?????? actually sounds [?????ó]. And strike in Russion is - umm, - complicated...
This is how I utter spoken words http://vocaroo.com/i/s0uIyTtMczjs
Edit: words in cirillic looked normal on previw... And became broken in post. Strange. Well, there were: dub, grib, grad sounding [dup], [grip] and [grat]; than duba and dubovy sounding with [ b] sound, and last but not least moloko sounding [malakó]
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: OurAdversarialSystem on November 04, 2014, 02:13:04 AM
Ya ne znaiou po-Russki. Ya bil uchiou russki yazzikh ve universitate no ya ne dumaiou grammatiki.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: RC1138 on August 03, 2015, 09:20:10 AM
Umm..
Check? Check? Some one still alive here? Do you need a russian in this topic?
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Guardian G.I. on August 03, 2015, 09:28:59 AM
Umm..
Check? Check? Some one still alive here? Do you need a russian in this topic?
Belarusian guy here, same thing as well. Don't ask me anything about grammar and especially punctuation, though.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: RC1138 on August 03, 2015, 10:12:28 AM
A zachem to sprashivat'?)))
Glad to see a neightbor here...
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Guardian G.I. on August 03, 2015, 10:31:41 AM
A zachem to sprashivat'?)))
С пунктуацией у меня были нелады в школе. Я запорол кучу диктантов неправильно поставленными запятыми.
Впрочем, судя по всему, у иностранцев больше всего вопросов вызывает произношение русских звуков и склонение/падежи, а не запятые.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: RC1138 on August 03, 2015, 10:53:34 AM
О, так тут кириллица работает...
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: curiosity on August 04, 2015, 07:03:32 PM
Даже залогинилась, чтобы свои пять копеек вставить. Всё ручонки не доходили сюда написать. Спасибо, что оживили тему х)

Anyway, if anybody's interested in going on with this thread, count me in. I have absolutely no idea how to organize the process overall, but if the ones interested in learning our weird language have any specific questions, I'll gladly give the answers as detailed as I can. I may not know everything, of course, but looking for some new aspects of native language is pretty cool for me, too.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: bread on August 05, 2015, 06:29:05 AM
I'm was always interested in learning Russian and I'm finally trying to learn now. There are so many letters and suffixes.
Does anyone know any websites good for learning Russian?
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: cynicalos on August 09, 2015, 12:07:57 AM
Does anyone know any websites good for learning Russian?

Well, RT has a decent one. Memrise is also pretty good IMO. However, I felt like all of them are a little lackluster, to say the least.

Honestly, if you want to learn grammar and the language, you're better off picking up a cheap textbook. I highly recommend the Penguin New Russian Course, which I got really cheap used on ebay.

That, and watch movies - the older Soviet ones are better because they speak more simply, clearly, and politely.

Once you learn basic rules or aspects of grammar, there are a ton of review pages or practice pages. MasterRussian comes to mind, but it's REALLY hard to learn the stuff from these in the first place unless you have at least a little external background.

Try Белое Солнце Пустыни or maybe Летят Журавли. And I don't think anyone dislikes Крокодил Гена.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: bread on August 09, 2015, 01:37:14 AM
Well, RT has a decent one. Memrise is also pretty good IMO. However, I felt like all of them are a little lackluster, to say the least.

Honestly, if you want to learn grammar and the language, you're better off picking up a cheap textbook. I highly recommend the Penguin New Russian Course, which I got really cheap used on ebay.

That, and watch movies - the older Soviet ones are better because they speak more simply, clearly, and politely.

Once you learn basic rules or aspects of grammar, there are a ton of review pages or practice pages. MasterRussian comes to mind, but it's REALLY hard to learn the stuff from these in the first place unless you have at least a little external background.

Try Белое Солнце Пустыни or maybe Летят Журавли. And I don't think anyone dislikes Крокодил Гена.

Thank you, I think I remember watching Крокодил Гена when I was young. Do you know the name of the soviet cartoon which had a lion and turtle? I don't remember much else about it.  :P
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: curiosity on August 09, 2015, 10:44:58 AM
Do you know the name of the soviet cartoon which had a lion and turtle? I don't remember much else about it.  :P

Do you have this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKEblbzoasI) in mind?
(Never really liked it, though :P)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: bread on August 10, 2015, 01:21:42 AM
Do you have this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKEblbzoasI) in mind?
(Never really liked it, though :P)

Yes that's the one I was talking about. Thank you  ;D I don't remember if it was good or not, so yeah
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Cancvas on September 02, 2015, 06:21:13 AM
I'm giving a mild attempt to get hold of cyrilic alphabet (capital letters 1st) and what I would need is a "opening" words, like PECTOPAH (sorry caps, but doesnt make sense othewise) actually restorang (you need to thank finnish national railways company for me knowing that one). Would there be other words which would be close to english or other latin origin words which could be used as way to remember letters. Well, finnish words would be ok too, but... 

-C
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Bobriha on September 02, 2015, 09:35:38 AM
I'm giving a mild attempt to get hold of cyrilic alphabet (capital letters 1st) and what I would need is a "opening" words, like PECTOPAH (sorry caps, but doesnt make sense othewise) actually restorang (you need to thank finnish national railways company for me knowing that one). Would there be other words which would be close to english or other latin origin words which could be used as way to remember letters. Well, finnish words would be ok too, but... 

-C

If Finnish word, then СМЕТАНА is smetana :) (Though Finnish smetana and Russian СМЕТАНА are a bit different). Apteekki - АПТЕКА, appelsiini - АПЕЛЬСИН and arbuusi -АРБУЗ, blini - БЛИН, broileri - цыплёнок БРОЙЛЕР. And sometimes Russians call their cats КИСА which is almost exactly kissa (so no wonder why kissa was the first finnish word I learned. Tiikeri on iso kissa.)
Hm, may be a good idea to find any map that is produced in Russian.
If loan words from Latin same in Russian and English: antenna - АНТЕННА, astronomer - АСТРОНОМ (without er part), atom - АТОМ, defect - ДЕФЕКТ, diploma - ДИПЛОМ...
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Cancvas on September 03, 2015, 01:28:01 AM
Thanks Bobriha! Map idea was good one too, I think there might one in interveps somewhere.

Edit: Google maps, at least in it's finnish version seem to have names in both alphabets.

-C
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Slider on September 14, 2015, 08:26:01 AM
H1 all!
about me:
male, 26, Nygniy Novgorod (Нижний Новгород), Russia
Can answer and help)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Sunflower on September 14, 2015, 09:08:19 PM
H1 all!
about me:
male, 26, Nygniy Novgorod (Нижний Новгород), Russia
Can answer and help)

Thanks, Slider!  Glad you see you took up the invitation from the comic's Disqus page to come join us on the Forum!

Now, can I convince you to come introduce yourself properly on the Introduction thread?  We're all friendly here.   :)
https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=131.0
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: kjeks on October 30, 2015, 03:14:15 PM
https://incubator.duolingo.com/courses/ru/en/status (https://incubator.duolingo.com/courses/ru/en/status)

russian course is completed but not yet launched. but EEEEEEEH so nice!!!
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Solovei on October 30, 2015, 03:15:19 PM
https://incubator.duolingo.com/courses/ru/en/status (https://incubator.duolingo.com/courses/ru/en/status)

russian course is completed but not yet launched. but EEEEEEEH so nice!!!
Oooh maybe I can brush up on my atrociously decayed Russian :D
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 30, 2015, 03:23:55 PM
Oooh maybe I can brush up on my atrociously decayed Russian :D
Я большей частью читаю англоязычные сайты, и иногда у меня возникает впечатление, что я начинаю забывать русский язык. ;D
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: heiteru on October 10, 2016, 01:16:38 AM
if you want to practice your Russian
or ask about any garbage that you can't google
u'r welcome ;з
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: VibratingText on November 14, 2016, 07:38:23 PM
This thread exists, hooray!
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: heiteru on July 03, 2017, 01:08:56 PM
I recently found out about the existence of interslavic language. In fact, this is not a language, but something in between the languages of the whole slavic group. It is intuitive to all slavs, and it does not matter what language you know or learning - Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, Czech or other. (for me the text looks funny, but completely understandable)
I thought that this could be useful for those who are learning some kind of slavic languages?
Here is a site dedicated to interslavic (http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/index.html), and here is an online newspaper, entirely in this amazing language. (http://www.izviestija.info/)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: GeiYin on July 03, 2017, 02:19:40 PM
The idea looks wonderful! Surely it's very easy to understand when it's in writen form (but i'm sure that we'll all be like Emil trying to understand Mikkel when it'll be in oral form)

Also i looked into articles and...  that's still quite hard rules of grammar... (anyway i'm not sure if any slavic language can be described easier)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Prizrachniy_Gek on July 15, 2017, 04:07:24 PM
Its looks so cute!
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Sandy Noname on September 10, 2017, 04:25:46 PM
Приветствую, теперь и я тут поселилась :)
В комментариате сайта SSSS я - Maria Gerasimova. А вот как вставить аватарку, это вопрос :)

С грамотностью и пунктуацией у меня в принципе проблем нет, если кому-то нужно что-то уточнить или проверить. Я вообще граммар-наци :)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Hrollo on September 10, 2017, 08:17:22 PM
Back when I studied Russian a bit, I made a little cheat sheet for vowel reductions: http://thelegion.free.fr/russianvowels.htm (requires some basic knowledge of Russian pronunciation and/or of IPA to be usable).
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: kuzzzma on November 17, 2017, 09:03:24 AM
Another Russian-native speaker.
Any questions are welcome, I'm also open to chat with anyone wanting to brush-up on their Russian skills.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 18, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Hi, this is a quite dusty thread, but I think it would be the only place for me to ask my question.  :V

My Russian proficiency is still very, very poor, as in I'm still not 100% certain on what sounds all of the letters make. But I'm getting there I swear.

Anyway, for some reason I thought it was a good idea to try and write a Finnish name in (Russian) Cyrillic. (Hint: it was not a good idea) I'm wondering if anyone would be able to lend a hand to see if I got the letter pronunciations and stuff correct. And if not, if you could kindly point me in the right direction  ;D

Spoiler:  the name and stuff • show
The name I'm trying to translate, I guess, is Kirsi Jokinen. Apparently Jokinen is pronounced something like YOH-key-nen (in english sounds).

I came up with Кирси Йохкинен, and I think the first name might be right. I'm nearly 100% sure the last name is not though  :'D
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Kis on July 18, 2018, 04:39:38 PM
Hi, this is a quite dusty thread, but I think it would be the only place for me to ask my question.  :V

My Russian proficiency is still very, very poor, as in I'm still not 100% certain on what sounds all of the letters make. But I'm getting there I swear.

Anyway, for some reason I thought it was a good idea to try and write a Finnish name in (Russian) Cyrillic. (Hint: it was not a good idea) I'm wondering if anyone would be able to lend a hand to see if I got the letter pronunciations and stuff correct. And if not, if you could kindly point me in the right direction  ;D

Spoiler:  the name and stuff • show
The name I'm trying to translate, I guess, is Kirsi Jokinen. Apparently Jokinen is pronounced something like YOH-key-nen (in english sounds).

I came up with Кирси Йохкинен, and I think the first name might be right. I'm nearly 100% sure the last name is not though  :'D


!!!
Actually, you were almost right! The surname would be "Йокинен". Finnish names are usually pretty easily translated, for most cases you can use transliteration
Somehow I became very excited about your progress. You're doing well  :V
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 18, 2018, 04:50:26 PM
!!!
Actually, you were almost right! The surname would be "Йокинен". Finnish names are usually pretty easily translated, for most cases you can use transliteration
Somehow I became very excited about your progress. You're doing well  :V

Oh cool! That's the closest I've ever been when sounding something out!  ;D Thank you so much for your help and advice!!!

And thank you again! Sometimes I get sad that I can't understand more Russian than I do. Yesterday I had some customers (I work as a cashier) who were speaking in Russian. I was sad that I couldn't speak to them like I do with my French customers. But I knew that they were speaking Russian! I guess that's a good start! Haha  :'D
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: wavewright62 on July 18, 2018, 04:52:46 PM
Hi, this is a quite dusty thread, but I think it would be the only place for me to ask my question.  :V

My Russian proficiency is still very, very poor, as in I'm still not 100% certain on what sounds all of the letters make. But I'm getting there I swear.

Anyway, for some reason I thought it was a good idea to try and write a Finnish name in (Russian) Cyrillic. (Hint: it was not a good idea) I'm wondering if anyone would be able to lend a hand to see if I got the letter pronunciations and stuff correct. And if not, if you could kindly point me in the right direction  ;D

Spoiler:  the name and stuff • show
The name I'm trying to translate, I guess, is Kirsi Jokinen. Apparently Jokinen is pronounced something like YOH-key-nen (in english sounds).

I came up with Кирси Йохкинен, and I think the first name might be right. I'm nearly 100% sure the last name is not though  :'D


I hesitate to have a go, because I'm not sure either.  (But I will.  Take my suggestions with a chunk of salt.)  Russian speakers, do chip in!
I would definitely ditch the x, because the Finnish doesn't have the huff before the к that an x would bring.   
Edit: Kis answered this one: As for the Jo (which would be closer to Yaw than Yoh but it goes by so fast it's hard to detect), you might be right, or it might be Ю (although that's more like Yu than Yaw, I suppose).
I'm also under the impression Kirsi will want a й added to the end as well.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 18, 2018, 04:57:12 PM
I hesitate to have a go, because I'm not sure either.  (But I will.  Take my suggestions with a chunk of salt.)  Russian speakers, do chip in!
I would definitely ditch the x, because the Finnish doesn't have the huff before the к that an x would bring.   
Edit: Kis answered this one: As for the Jo (which would be closer to Yaw than Yoh but it goes by so fast it's hard to detect), you might be right, or it might be Ю (although that's more like Yu than Yaw, I suppose).
I'm also under the impression Kirsi will want a й added to the end as well.

I have been (probably mistakenly) using й at the end like in Артемий/Artemiy as a longer, iiiii sound. If it would be Кирсий I feel like that would be slightly too long of a time on that last sound? Just my thoughts though.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: wavewright62 on July 18, 2018, 05:00:16 PM
I have been (probably mistakenly) using й at the end like in Артемий/Artemiy as a longer, iiiii sound. If it would be Кирсий I feel like that would be slightly too long of a time on that last sound? Just my thoughts though.

I would have thought so too, but I'm going with names like Yuri, which have a similar length in speaking, and do have the й at the end.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 18, 2018, 05:02:31 PM
I would have thought so too, but I'm going with names like Yuri, which have a similar length in speaking, and do have the й at the end.

Ah neat so there are examples of this sound (somewhat) being transliterated before
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Kis on July 18, 2018, 05:40:19 PM
That feeling when you're not sure if you know your native language anymore...
I wouldn't depend on examples of transliterarion of russian names now. For instance, Юрий can also be written as Yury or Yuriy (which in my opinion is a little bit more correct). I just can't remember any opposing examples so I might be wrong too, but I'll say that you simply don't use й when translating names which end with a single i
Thus, Кирси
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 18, 2018, 06:56:03 PM
That feeling when you're not sure if you know your native language anymore...
I wouldn't depend on examples of transliterarion of russian names now. For instance, Юрий can also be written as Yury or Yuriy (which in my opinion is a little bit more correct). I just can't remember any opposing examples so I might be wrong too, but I'll say that you simply don't use й when translating names which end with a single i
Thus, Кирси

Oh don’t worry about that aha I get that feeling basically once a day. I’ll blame it on us being able to understand multiple languages well ;)

That makes sense to me, and I think I will go with that. No offense intended, Wavewright, I’m just more inclined to follow the guidance of a native speaker.

But it’s sort of like the name Bailey in English, where the ey would work similarly to ий. Compare that to umm... Christie. It COULD be shortened to Christi, because that makes the same sound. The и sound. Idk I think I’m rambling at this point haha :V
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Kis on July 18, 2018, 11:37:37 PM
Quote
Oh don’t worry about that aha I get that feeling basically once a day. I’ll blame it on us being able to understand multiple languages well ;)
Heh :3
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: wavewright62 on July 19, 2018, 12:28:59 AM
Oh don’t worry about that aha I get that feeling basically once a day. I’ll blame it on us being able to understand multiple languages well ;)

That makes sense to me, and I think I will go with that. No offense intended, Wavewright, I’m just more inclined to follow the guidance of a native speaker.



Hey, no offense taken, I totally defer to a native speaker!   I get to learn something as well, which makes this a good day indeed.
(https://i.imgur.com/StKwal5.png)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 19, 2018, 06:02:06 AM
Hey, no offense taken, I totally defer to a native speaker!   I get to learn something as well, which makes this a good day indeed.
(https://i.imgur.com/StKwal5.png)

Yay! Learning all around!

So thread is not near as inactive as I expected, can I ask another question, if that’s alright? (Kis you’ve been such a great help! ;D)

This one actually has to do with learning the language haha
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Kis on July 19, 2018, 04:56:55 PM
Quote
So thread is not near as inactive as I expected, can I ask another question, if that’s alright?

Of course! That's what these threads exist for
(and thank you, I was glad to help)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 21, 2018, 03:43:10 PM
Of course! That's what these threads exist for
(and thank you, I was glad to help)

Oops, sorry for the delay. I'm having a rough time at memorizing words. I'm thinking that it might be because I'm trying to memorize what the word looks like, since it is a foreign alphabet to me.

Do you think it would help me to learn the Cyrillic alphabet (fully) first, and then try to memorize words?
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Kis on July 21, 2018, 05:02:10 PM
Quote
Oops, sorry for the delay. I'm having a rough time at memorizing words. I'm thinking that it might be because I'm trying to memorize what the word looks like, since it is a foreign alphabet to me.

Do you think it would help me to learn the Cyrillic alphabet (fully) first, and then try to memorize words?

Knowing Cyrillic alphabet would certainly help, it's much easier to learn new words if you know how to spell them and, well, spell them  :P  Besides it would come in handy if you're going to learn vocabulary by writing words with their translation. Spelling them (especially aloud)(I don't know, it just helps sometimes) while doing so will help you memorize all these unpronounced letters and horrible consonant combinations. We have a joke about learning how to write 'language' by saying to ourselves 'лангуаге'. An yes, I wrote this by saying 'лангуаге'. It works
I would also recommend learning simple words like 'снег'-'snow' or 'кот'-'cat' first and gradually increase the difficulty so that you can get used to memorizing absolute gibberish
Learning Russian must be a nightmare
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: wavewright62 on July 21, 2018, 06:28:06 PM
Knowing Cyrillic alphabet would certainly help, it's much easier to learn new words if you know how to spell them and, well, spell them  :P  Besides it would come in handy if you're going to learn vocabulary by writing words with their translation. Spelling them (especially aloud)(I don't know, it just helps sometimes) while doing so will help you memorize all these unpronounced letters and horrible consonant combinations. We have a joke about learning how to write 'language' by saying to ourselves 'лангуаге'. An yes, I wrote this by saying 'лангуаге'. It works
I would also recommend learning simple words like 'снег'-'snow' or 'кот'-'cat' first and gradually increase the difficulty so that you can get used to memorizing absolute gibberish
Learning Russian must be a nightmare

Agreed.  I took it as my language in high school.  The first year was okay, we had a small class but individual attention, and we learnt the alphabet and those simple words.  This was still during the Soviet era, and the textbook reflected it.  We quickly progressed from "что это (What is this?)" "это дом (This is a house)" to "Я работаю день и ночь на заводе как машина (I work day and night in the factory like a machine)."  The word for "red" got a workout, not so much the other colours.
The second year had fewer people in it, but the third year was so sparse that we were scattered to doing independent study in the back of other classrooms, in my case first-year German.  I learnt neither language that year. 
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: curiosity on July 21, 2018, 07:13:41 PM
Do you think it would help me to learn the Cyrillic alphabet (fully) first, and then try to memorize words?

It would. The first post in this thread has a rather accurate pronounciation parallels for Russian alphabet. I don't say Cyrillic in this case, because different languages that use Cyrillic alphabet may have slightly different sounds for the same letters. But since it was posted long ago, when the forum didn't support Cyrillic, I took a liberty of fixing and pasting it here:

Spoiler: show

А а - Pronounced like the "a" in the word "father" or "car". It is not the 'flat' "a" sound you sometimes hear in words like "cat" or "flat".
 
Б б - Pronounced like the "b" in "bat". (Equivalent to the english letter "b").

В в - Pronounced like the "v" in "vet". (Equivalent to the english letter "v").

Г г - Pronounced like the "g" in "go". (Equivalent to the english letter "g").

Д д - Pronounced like the "d" in "dog". (Equivalent to the english letter "d").

Е е - Pronounced like the "ye" in "yes".
 
Ё ё - Pronounced like "yo" in "yonder" or yo-yo but shorter /the British pronounciation of "yonder"/

Ж ж - Like "s" in "measure", "pleasure" or "fusion" or like "g" in colour "beige". (As there is no english symbol for this sound, it is usually represented as "zh")

З з - Pronounced like the "z" in "zoo". (Equivalent to the english letter "z").
 
И и - Pronounced like the "i" in "taxi". (Sometimes equivalent to the english letter "i", the short 'ee' sound.). (Note: The hand-written form for "И" looks a little like the english "u").

Й й - This letter is used to form diphthongs. So "oй" is like the "oy" sound in "boy" or "aй" is like the "igh" in "sigh". Think of yikes! or Yellow... so I guess this letter relates to Y in some cases.

К к, Pronounced like the "k" in "kitten" or "kangaroo". This letter replaces the english "c" sound in words like "cat"

Л л,  Pronounced like the "l" in "love". (Equivalent to the english letter "l").

М м, Pronounced like the "m" in man. (Note: Unlike english, the hand-written "M" should always start from the bottom)

Н н, Pronounced like the "n" in "no". (Equivalent to the english letter "n").
 
О о, When stressed, it is pronounced like the "o" in "bore". When un-stressed it is pronounced more like the letter "a". (See later notes.)

П п - Pronounced like the "p" in "pot". (Equivalent to the english letter "p").

Р р - Pronounced like the "r" in "run", but it is rolled. (Equivalent to the english letter "r").

С с - Pronounced like the "s" in "see". (Equivalent to the english letter "s"). (It might help to remember that it's used like the "s" sound in the english words "centre" and "cent".)
 
Т т - Pronounced like the "t" in "tap". (Note: The hand-written (and italic) form is "?". It should always start from the top, as it looks quite similar to the letter "?")  /Sorry, no idea how to fix this one; but you'll get the original poster's idea if you look at the second post in this thread with examples of hand-written letters/

У у, - Pronounced like the "oo" in "boot" or "root".

Ф ф,  Pronounced like the "f" in "fat". (Equivalent to the english letter "f").

Х х, - Pronounced like the "h" in "hello". However, this is often pronounced more like the "ch" in the Scottish "Loch" or German "Bach", or the spanish "x" in "Mexico".

Ц ц, -  Similar to the "ts" sound in "sits" or "its".

Ч ч, - Pronounced like the "ch" in "chips" or "church" .

Ш ш,  -Pronounced like the "sh" in shut.

Щ щ - Pronounced like "sh" but with your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Try putting your tongue in the same position as you would to say "ch" but say "sh" instead. English speakers may find it hard to define the difference between "ш" and "щ". /And I have to add: think of English words "she", "sheet", "sheep" or "ship", and you'll get the general idea/

ъ -The 'Hard Sign' is rarely used. It indicates a slight pause between sylables.

ы - Pronounced like the "i" in "bit" or "ill". (Said with your tongue slightly back in your mouth.)

ь -  The 'Soft Sign' makes the previous letter 'soft'. Think of the "p" sound in the word "pew". (Try inflecting a very slight "y" sound onto letter before it.)

Э э - Pronounced like the "e" in "fed".

Ю ю - Pronounced like the "u" in "universe". (Pronounced much like the english word "you").

Я я - Pronounced like the "ya" in "yard".


Some ramblings about quirks of ь and ъ that I'd better hide under Spoiler tag:

Spoiler: show
You might want to pay extra attention to a wicked ь letter, which has no pronunciation by itself, but softens the consonant it follows. For example, in the word "пыль" (dust) л is soft, as in such French words as "mille" or "il". But л in the word "пыл" (heat; zeal) is hard, like in English words "maul" or "mile".

Understanding ъ can be more difficult, as it is used in fewer words, and the difference between ь and ъ is very subtle. The consonant before ъ doesn't soften; ъ letter is used to indicate that the consonant and the vowel it is placed between are pronounced separately. For example, the word "съёмка" (filming) has ъ between с and ё, so the word is pronounced "s-yom-ka". Without ъ, it would be something like "syom-ka", the sound somewhat similar to "u" in "surmise" and "burly" (the closest analogue I could come up with, so it's far from accurate). UPD: Maybe "ci" in words "circus" and "circuit" is a better example.


And some more about vowels:
Spoiler: show
Vowels can be a pain in the rear, too - we have 10 letters for them (а, е, ё, и, о, у, ы, э, ю, я), but only 6 sounds ([а], [э], [и], [ы], [о], [у]).

The trick is that there are two types of vowels - those that use a single sound and those that use two:
а - [а], я - [й'а]
э - [э], е - [й'э]
о - [о], ё - [й'о]
у - [у], ю - [й'у]
ы - [ы]
и - [и]

UPD: In Russian transcription the ' symbol indicates that the consonant is soft. Some consonants are always soft, and й is one of them.

Keep in mind that е, ё, и, ю, я always soften the last consonant that preceeds them if that tricky imp ъ not present, while consonants before а, о, у, э, ы are always hard.

Okay, in some words of foreign origin e sounds like э, as in words "менеджмент" (management), "Интернет" (Internet) or "тест" (test), but that's another story, and some people - usually elder ones - still say е instead, but it sounds wrong and funny, don't do that.

UPD: It slipped my mind last night. I have to add that when the vowel that is represented by two sounds follows a consonant, the [й'] sound is dropped, but the consonant itself is softened.
For example, words "мяч" (ball) and "меч" (sword) sound like [м'ач'] and [м'эч'] instead of [мй'ач'] and [мй'эч'].
But if there is ь present between consonant and vowel, the [й'] sound remains. For example: "вьюга" (blizzard) or "пьяный" (drunk, drunkard) are pronounced [в'й'уга] and [п'й'аный'].
The [й'] isn't dropped if the word begins with a two-sound vowel: "яблоко" (apple), "енот" (racoon), "юг" (south) are pronounced with [й'а], [й'э], [й'у] respectively.


And four useful rules to remember, they help a lot when it comes to writing:
Spoiler: show

There are several tricky letter pairs in Russian that don't bend to rules I've mentioned above. They are:

1) "жи" and "ши" - in this case the letter и is pronounced like ы, because in Russian sounds [ж] and [ш] are never soft, thus words like "жизнь" (life), "жир" (grease, fat), "шифр" (cipher), "шишка" (cone; bump) are pronounced like "жызнь", "жыр", "шыфр", "шышка" respectively. But it's important to remember that writing words with "жы" and "шы" is a gross error, the only correct way is to use "жи" and "ши".

2) "ча" and "ща" - in this case the letter a is pronounced like я: "чашка" (cup) sounds like "чяшка"; "щавель" (sorrel) like "щявель" etc, much like with the previous rule. It is because [ч'] and [щ'] are always soft and can't be hardened whatsoever. Again, like in the rule above, writing "чя" and "щя" is a gross error.

3) "чу" and "щу" - in this case the letter у is pronounced like ю: "чудо" (wonder) sounds like "чюдо"; "щука" (pike) like "щюка". And you've already guessed that writing "чю" and "щю" is a gross error.

4) "чк" and "чн" - no matter how much you'd want to insert ь between these letters, don't - it's an error; words like "точка" (dot), "навечно" (forever) have no ь inside.


Also, many foreign toponyms and personal names in Russian are traditionally spelled quite differently from how they sound in your language. For example, the river Nile, which is [nail] in English, is spelled "Нил" ([nil] or even [ni:l]) in Russian instead of "Найл" (how it would have been spelled if we used English pronunciation).
But every language has its own traditions, sometimes changing the names radically (Deutschland, Germany, Allemagne, Германия, Нiмеччина - yes, that's the same country).

So it would be a good idea to check the result of your transliteration experiments by googling or visiting this thread.

Hope it was useful and readable Cx
If I've made it seem too complicated or you have any questions otherwise, feel free to ask.

P.S.: Gods, how I love linguistics. I would marry it if I could.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: wavewright62 on July 21, 2018, 09:50:17 PM
curiosity, you are a gem.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Kis on July 22, 2018, 03:26:56 AM
Quote
It would. The first post in this thread has a rather accurate pronounciation parallels for Russian alphabet. I don't say Cyrillic in this case, because different languages that use Cyrillic alphabet may have slightly different sounds for the same letters. But since it was posted long ago, when the forum didn't support Cyrillic, I took a liberty of fixing and pasting it here:

Spoiler: show

А а - Pronounced like the "a" in the word "father" or "car". It is not the 'flat' "a" sound you sometimes hear in words like "cat" or "flat".
 
Б б - Pronounced like the "b" in "bat". (Equivalent to the english letter "b").

В в - Pronounced like the "v" in "vet". (Equivalent to the english letter "v").

Г г - Pronounced like the "g" in "go". (Equivalent to the english letter "g").

Д д - Pronounced like the "d" in "dog". (Equivalent to the english letter "d").

Е е - Pronounced like the "ye" in "yes".
 
Ё ё - Pronounced like "yo" in "yonder" or yo-yo but shorter /the British pronounciation of "yonder"/

Ж ж - Like "s" in "measure", "pleasure" or "fusion" or like "g" in colour "beige". (As there is no english symbol for this sound, it is usually represented as "zh")

З з - Pronounced like the "z" in "zoo". (Equivalent to the english letter "z").
 
И и - Pronounced like the "i" in "taxi". (Sometimes equivalent to the english letter "i", the short 'ee' sound.). (Note: The hand-written form for "И" looks a little like the english "u").

Й й - This letter is used to form diphthongs. So "oй" is like the "oy" sound in "boy" or "aй" is like the "igh" in "sigh". Think of yikes! or Yellow... so I guess this letter relates to Y in some cases.

К к, Pronounced like the "k" in "kitten" or "kangaroo". This letter replaces the english "c" sound in words like "cat"

Л л,  Pronounced like the "l" in "love". (Equivalent to the english letter "l").

М м, Pronounced like the "m" in man. (Note: Unlike english, the hand-written "M" should always start from the bottom)

Н н, Pronounced like the "n" in "no". (Equivalent to the english letter "n").
 
О о, When stressed, it is pronounced like the "o" in "bore". When un-stressed it is pronounced more like the letter "a". (See later notes.)

П п - Pronounced like the "p" in "pot". (Equivalent to the english letter "p").

Р р - Pronounced like the "r" in "run", but it is rolled. (Equivalent to the english letter "r").

С с - Pronounced like the "s" in "see". (Equivalent to the english letter "s"). (It might help to remember that it's used like the "s" sound in the english words "centre" and "cent".)
 
Т т - Pronounced like the "t" in "tap". (Note: The hand-written (and italic) form is "?". It should always start from the top, as it looks quite similar to the letter "?")  /Sorry, no idea how to fix this one; but you'll get the original poster's idea if you look at the second post in this thread with examples of hand-written letters/

У у, - Pronounced like the "oo" in "boot" or "root".

Ф ф,  Pronounced like the "f" in "fat". (Equivalent to the english letter "f").

Х х, - Pronounced like the "h" in "hello". However, this is often pronounced more like the "ch" in the Scottish "Loch" or German "Bach", or the spanish "x" in "Mexico".

Ц ц, -  Similar to the "ts" sound in "sits" or "its".

Ч ч, - Pronounced like the "ch" in "chips" or "church" .

Ш ш,  -Pronounced like the "sh" in shut.

Щ щ - Pronounced like "sh" but with your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Try putting your tongue in the same position as you would to say "ch" but say "sh" instead. English speakers may find it hard to define the difference between "ш" and "щ". /And I have to add: think of English words "she", "sheet", "sheep" or "ship", and you'll get the general idea/

ъ -The 'Hard Sign' is rarely used. It indicates a slight pause between sylables.

ы - Pronounced like the "i" in "bit" or "ill". (Said with your tongue slightly back in your mouth.)

ь -  The 'Soft Sign' makes the previous letter 'soft'. Think of the "p" sound in the word "pew". (Try inflecting a very slight "y" sound onto letter before it.)

Э э - Pronounced like the "e" in "fed".

Ю ю - Pronounced like the "u" in "universe". (Pronounced much like the english word "you").

Я я - Pronounced like the "ya" in "yard".


Some ramblings about quirks of ь and ъ that I'd better hide under Spoiler tag:

Spoiler: show
You might want to pay extra attention to a wicked ь letter, which has no pronounciation by itself, but softens the consonant it follows. For example, in the word "пыль" (dust) л is soft, as in such French words as "mille" or "il". But л in the word "пыл" (heat; zeal) is hard, like in English words "maul" or "mile".

Understanding ъ can be more difficult, as it is used in fewer words, and the difference between ь and ъ is very subtle. The consonant before ъ doesn't soften; ъ letter is used to indicate that the consonant and the vowel it is placed between are pronounced separately. For example, the word "съёмка" (filming) has ъ between с and ё, so the word is pronounced "s-yom-ka". Without ъ, it would be something like "syom-ka", the sound somewhat similar to "u" in "surmise" and "burly" (the closest analogue I could come up with, so it's far from accurate).


And some more about vowels:
Spoiler: show
Vowels can be a pain in the rear, too - we have 10 letters for them (а, е, ё, и, о, у, ы, э, ю, я), but only 6 sounds ([а], [э], [и], [ы], [о], [у]).

The trick is that there are two types of vowels - those that use a single sound and those that use two:
а - [а], я - [йа]
э - [э], е - [йэ]
о - [о], ё - [йо]
у - [у], ю - [йу]
ы - [ы]
и - [и]

Keep in mind that е, ё, и, ю, я always soften the last consonant that preceeds them if that tricky imp ъ not present, while consonants before а, о, у, э, ы are always hard.

Okay, in some words of foreign origin e sounds like э, as in words "менеджмент" (management), "Интернет" (Internet) or "тест" (test), but that's another story, and some people - usually elder ones - still say е instead, but it sounds wrong and funny, don't do that.


And four useful rules to remember, they help a lot when it comes to writing:
Spoiler: show

There are several tricky letter pairs in Russian that don't bend to rules I've mentioned above. They are:

1) "жи" and "ши" - in this case the letter и is pronounced like ы, because in Russian sounds [ж] and [ш] are never soft, thus words like "жизнь" (life), "жир" (grease, fat), "шифр" (cipher), "шишка" (cone; bump) are pronounced like "жызнь", "жыр", "шыфр", "шышка" respectively. But it's important to remember that writing words with "жы" and "шы" is a gross error, the only correct way is to use "жи" and "ши".

2) "ча" and "ща" - in this case the letter a is pronounced like я: "чашка" (cup) sounds like "чяшка"; "щавель" (sorrel) like "щявель" etc, much like with the previous rule. It is because [ч] and [щ] are always soft and can't be hardened whatsoever. Again, like in the rule above, writing "чя" and "щя" is a gross error.

3) "чу" and "щу" - in this case the letter у is pronounced like ю: "чудо" (wonder) sounds like "чюдо"; "щука" (pike) like "щюка". And you've already guessed that writing "чю" and "щю" is a gross error.

4) "чк" and "чн" - no matter how much you'd want to insert ь between these letters, don't - it's an error; words like "точка" (dot), "навечно" (forever) have no ь inside.


Also, many foreign toponyms and personal names in Russian are traditionally spelled quite differently from how they sound in your language. For example, the river Nile, which is [nail] in English, is spelled "Нил" ([nil] or even [ni:l]) in Russian instead of "Найл" (how it would have been spelled if we used English pronounciation).
But every language has its own traditions, sometimes changing the names radically (Deutschland, Germany, Allemagne, Германия, Нiмеччина - yes, that's the same country).

So it would be a good idea to check the result of your transliteration experiments by googling or visiting this thread.

Hope it was useful and readable Cx
If I've made it seem too complicated or you have any questions otherwise, feel free to ask.

Oh god of hangovers, you're amazing
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 22, 2018, 07:38:08 AM
Ah wow you all are so great! (curiosity that is HUUGE oh my gosh)

So from what I gather, it would be best to do this:

1. Learn the [Russian] Cyrillic alphabet and the behaviors of letters (I can sort of remember doing this in school when I was 7 for French. Good times.)

2. Start small and learn words. Just random words, by writing them down in Russian and then in English while saying them out loud. (I’m thinking of picking up a Russian-English dictionary and just copying that down hehe ;D )

And then I can move on to putting all of those words together and learning phrases.


Ah you all have been so much of a help! Thank you so much!!! I really really appreciate it! I didn’t have the opportunity to take Russian in high school like Wavewright because the only other language (besides French-required and English) that was offered was Spanish. Plus our local library doesn’t have any Russian resources at all. That would probably be because we don’t have many, if ANY Russians here in town aha.
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Kis on July 22, 2018, 10:31:57 AM
I liked this discussion so much, aaah
And we helped, yay!

(https://40.media.tumblr.com/2daea9894c099c47465a570fc6cb4814/tumblr_inline_nlmsb11uhy1r2g2kx_500.png)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Morgan on July 22, 2018, 10:40:17 AM
I liked this discussion so much, aaah
And we helped, yay!

(https://40.media.tumblr.com/2daea9894c099c47465a570fc6cb4814/tumblr_inline_nlmsb11uhy1r2g2kx_500.png)

Ah yes it has been a wonderful discussion! I'll let you all know how my studies go  ;D

(https://orig00.deviantart.net/a1e2/f/2018/203/9/1/331_by_redfeatherstar-dchy2r6.jpg)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: wavewright62 on July 23, 2018, 12:37:05 AM
Ah yes it has been a wonderful discussion! I'll let you all know how my studies go  ;D

(https://orig00.deviantart.net/a1e2/f/2018/203/9/1/331_by_redfeatherstar-dchy2r6.jpg)
I liked this discussion so much, aaah
And we helped, yay!

(https://40.media.tumblr.com/2daea9894c099c47465a570fc6cb4814/tumblr_inline_nlmsb11uhy1r2g2kx_500.png)

Do you mean --
(https://i.imgur.com/1xN8lUa.png)
Title: Re: Learning Russian
Post by: Kis on July 23, 2018, 02:38:25 AM
Пффт, ага с: