Author Topic: Disqus, infected  (Read 5869 times)

Sc0ut

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2016, 07:45:51 AM »
That wasn't a troll either, just an immature person. He made a thread called "criticism" and posted there once - on topic, no matter how poor his arguments were. A troll would've posted this or similar messages all over the board. THAT is disruptive and inflaming behavior. Making one thread or one comment about something that matters to you (even if it's negative or poorly thought out) and sticking to it isn't. People simply saying things that others disagree with is not disruptive. Sometimes I have a feeling that you guys have never been in truly toxic internet communities to know what real trolls are like.

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2016, 08:25:35 AM »
I would have more things to say if I was slightly more awake, but just put me down as agreeing with Scout for now.
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Lazy8

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2016, 08:28:30 AM »
I agree that the person is within his rights to criticize the comic (which I remember Aliax doing quite a bit a few weeks back); the issue is the rude way he was responding to people who attempted to respectfully disagree with him. "I didn't even bother to read your response because it's just stupid fanboying"? Yeah, that crossed a line.
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Aliax

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2016, 09:53:04 AM »
I agree that the person is within his rights to criticize the comic (which I remember Aliax doing quite a bit a few weeks back);
Two weeks and two days ago, precisely. And nobody called me a troll.

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the issue is the rude way he was responding to people who attempted to respectfully disagree with him. "I didn't even bother to read your response because it's just stupid fanboying"? Yeah, that crossed a line.
Seriously, people, just go read the thread. This guy is a *textbook* internet troll.

- My opinion is fact? Check.

- I don't read the comments but I know what they all say anyway? Check.

- I know what the work should be better than the creator of the work herself? Check. (For those who don't want to bother with the link: "I can go back and cite actual phases when this comic was absolutely perfect and in its element. I can actually pinpoint the place where its story telling went from grim and dark to cute-sy and uninteresting.")

- Anyone who disagrees with me is just a fanperson? Check.

- Anyone who disagrees with me is just butthurt? Check.

- This comments section is probably full of tumblr teens too full of themselves to distinguish criticism from an attack on the artist ? Check, and I'm directly quoting him here.

- I'm entitled to post my opinion wherever I want? Check and check.

- No, I will not be polite? Check.

- I don't read long answers - except for the one that agrees the least bit with me, in which case I lavish it with praise, and take the opportunity to misrepresent those other comments which I supposedly haven't read in the first place? Check: "Glad to read your well thought out response. That's a refreshing change from allegations of wanting explosions"

And so forth and so on. This guy has shown himself to be a troll through and through.

JoB

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2016, 10:26:52 AM »
uh.....I mean the comments is definitely rude, but I don't see how the third comment is a troll? I think it's just a very poorly worded criticism. Not enough to justify being flagged as troll/spam?
It's a definite possibility that the occasional "merely rude" comment gets mistaken for trolling when trolling is going on, I'm afraid. It's not like the trolls would want to make themselves recognized easily. What they do want is to get people worked up and switching away from the topics they used to discuss before - and rudeness is right up that alley ...

(I didn't flag that comment, either.)

Also, JoB, your second link goes to one of your own comments, are you reporting yourself? ;)
I didn't write that one.

There's been a few "JoB replying to JoB" comments lately. I suspect it's not humor on his part, but a troll using the same nickname (but we can't see the difference because neither is a registered Disqus account). I've been confused too
BTW JoB, even if you don't want to use it, maybe you should make a Disqus account (if you haven't already) to make sure no-one steals the nick. [actually there's a @JOB already, but...]
I registered when the impersonations continued for two or three days. Point is, "JoB" and "JoB2" were obviously taken (registration refused), then I registered as "JoB0", got an account ID that's actually random, but the displayed name is still "JoB". In other words: Registered users can duplicate other registered users' names as displayed just the same. (Some added effort to also copy the avatar, but.)
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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2016, 10:30:59 AM »
Eeeh, I definitely see the guy as rude and probably inexperienced as to how more polite communities (like the SSSS fandom) work, but that's how a lot of people operate on the internet. There are gonna be douchebags and there are gonna be douchebags that are a lot worse than some guy who's much too abrupt and unwilling to change his opinion. This community is so cushy and small that any sort of discord comes as a shock, so yes, I get that, but it's really not anything worth reporting (yet).

I'm with Scout here. He's not spamming anywhere and it's really not horrible enough to be a troll.
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urbicande

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2016, 10:34:57 AM »
Yeah, not a troll.

But...well...

Don't feed the trolls. Just don't.  Ignore them.  They feed on your attention.
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Aliax

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2016, 10:43:01 AM »
I don't understand why some people are arguing that "there are worse people out there than this guy". That's really not the point. The point is not whether there are worse trolls, but only whether this particular guy IS a troll or not. It doesn't matter if he's not the worst kind of troll; it only matters whether he is a troll.

And the answer is yes, he is, because he has openly behaved in ways aimed at upsetting people. He has deliberately antagonised people. He has deliberately insulted both Minna and most of the commenters who replied to him. He has amply shown that he's not at all interested in discussing anything SSSS-related, but only in negatively criticising the work and outright insulting anyone who disagrees with him. So he's a troll, by the very definition of the words "internet troll". It's completely irrelevant that he's not the worst kind of troll ever.

I don't necessarily advocate taking any kind of action against him, because ignoring him seems to be enough. But that doesn't necessitate denying his nature. He's a troll, even if of the kind that is best left ignored.

Sc0ut

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2016, 11:00:28 AM »
Aliax... really, I don't think this guy is a troll. He expressed a negative but somewhat well-argued opinion, and got a bunch of people piling on him to silence him, some with good arguments, other with very poor ones. (Seriously, if I were making a comic and my readers would defend me with "but so much work goes into it!! it updates daily!" I would be so ashamed.) He became rude only after some fans made it clear that they can't bear any criticism of the comic whatsoever - and honestly, I can understand this reaction though I don't support it.

I think the real problem here is that some of us just can't stand the fact that some people don't like this comic. Let them not like it! Comments like this are fewer than 1/1000. Minna will be fine. The community will be fine. Seriously. You don't have to reply, and you can't change their mind anyway.

For whatever's worth, here's the guy having a completely civil exchange with me: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_460/#comment-2484701080 I bet he was polite with me because, unlike most people who replied, I was fine with him not liking the comic.

Also:

I don't necessarily advocate taking any kind of action against him, because ignoring him seems to be enough.

This is one of the best ways to tell someone's not a troll, actually. He shuts up if he's ignored. A troll will only intensify his abuse and pick on more people until he gets banned.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 11:12:16 AM by Sc0ut »

Lazy8

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2016, 12:05:28 PM »
Two weeks and two days ago, precisely. And nobody called me a troll.

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Seriously, people, just go read the thread.

I... think we're in agreement? In all honesty, it can sometimes be kind of hard to tell.
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Haiz

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2016, 12:14:43 PM »
The comic is getting more and more known, and the fanbase and all that comes with it is also getting bigger. I agree that this person might have been rude in some replies, but we HAVE to be able to handle not everyone liking every single aspect of the comic. I mean, that's practically a sign of success! before we know it, we'll have conservative christians making websites protesting the comic's pagan-promoting content.

I ALSO think it's important to remember that no piece of fiction is flawless, and neither are their creators. Minna is an amazing person who does indeed put a lot of work into her gorgeous comic, but she is still a human being, not a goddess, which means that she's not flawless either. But I believe she's tough enough to take some critique, even trolls, and that if things really get out of hand in the comment section, she'll know how to deal with it.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 12:17:55 PM by Haiz »
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Aliax

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2016, 01:12:02 PM »
He expressed a negative but somewhat well-argued opinion,
Well, since you mention it: could you explain to me just what his arguments were? Because all I got was, "This comic sucks because it didn't turn out to be what I wanted it to be", which is not any kind of argument as far as I can tell  ???

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and got a bunch of people piling on him to silence him, some with good arguments,

I'd like to think that my answers were among those good arguments, and he made a very visible point of ignoring them. That's not the behaviour of someone trying to discuss anything.

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(Seriously, if I were making a comic and my readers would defend me with "but so much work goes into it!! it updates daily!" I would be so ashamed.)

That was only one of many arguments that were made. 

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He became rude only after some fans made it clear that they can't bear any criticism of the comic whatsoever

Dude, you're talking to the guy who very publicly criticised the comic only two weeks ago  :o ! I don't think that I, of all people, can be said to not be able to "bear any criticism of the comic whatsoever". And yet this guy rudely dismissed my answers as "fanboy theses" and implied that I was stupid and butthurt and an immature teenager. I mean, come on!

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I think the real problem here is that some of us just can't stand the fact that some people don't like this comic.

That's not true, and I'm living proof of it. Nobody tried to crucify me when I had my meltdown - because I didn't act like a troll. When people engaged me, I respected them and their opinions. I didn't dismiss everyone who didn't agree with me as stupid, butthurt, immature teenagers. I didn't imply that I knew better than Minna what she should do with her comic. This guy did all of that, and that makes him a troll.

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The community will be fine. Seriously. You don't have to reply, and you can't change their mind anyway.

But that's the thing with trolls: it's too late to "not reply" once you identify them. This guy upset quite a few people, and then doubled down by insulting the upset people. The community will be fine, I totally agree, but he did do some damage. Nothing lasting nor horrible, but nothing that needed to happen either, and there's no reason to whitewash his misbehaviour.

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For whatever's worth, here's the guy having a completely civil exchange with me: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sssscomic/stand_still_stay_silent_webcomic_page_460/#comment-2484701080 I bet he was polite with me because, unlike most people who replied, I was fine with him not liking the comic.

Can't be, because I too was fine with him not liking the comic. I said so in my very first comment to him: "Sounds to me like "some more drama, some scarier things and a bit more action-y stuff, but in its core it's still a quite light story with an unhurried pace, a lot of friendship and a journey through the unknown" is simply not your cup of tea." And I wasn't the only one either. The difference between you and me is that I also disagreed with his opinion on the comic having "serious pacing and plot issues", while you didn't. In other words: this guy wants to be allowed to give negative criticism, but refuses to take it too in return. Another sign that he's not there to discuss honestly.

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This is one of the best ways to tell someone's not a troll, actually. He shuts up if he's ignored. A troll will only intensify his abuse and pick on more people until he gets banned.

Erm, no. "Don't feed the trolls" is a common saying for a good reason: because it works with most trolls. Most trolls give up if they are ignored, because being ignored is no fun for them. Only the most tenacious ones keep going until they get banned. In fact, most trolls I've known are very careful NOT to get banned: they will skirt the line again and again and again, but never to the point of getting banned, because again, where would the fun be in that?

Aliax

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2016, 01:16:12 PM »
I... think we're in agreement? In all honesty, it can sometimes be kind of hard to tell.
Argh. Yes, we are :) Sorry, I was specifically not including you in the "people", but I forgot to mention it.

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Lazy8

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2016, 01:23:52 PM »
Argh. Yes, we are :) Sorry, I was specifically not including you in the "people", but I forgot to mention it.

Heh, drawback of communicating without any nonverbal cues. Hence why I asked for clarification. :D
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Aliax

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Re: Disqus, infected
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2016, 01:30:45 PM »
Heh, drawback of communicating without any nonverbal cues.

Urgh, tell me about it  :-[ The number of times I ended up in a situation where I was like, "But that's really, really not how I meant it D: !" I love to discuss but I suck at communicating my opinions without somehow hurting someone sooner or later. Is it any wonder I wanted to be a Vulcan when I was a kid :D ? Oh, the freedom of discussing things on the pure basis of logic... Heaven :P !

So thank you so much for asking for clarification :) You have no idea how much I appreciate that!