Author Topic: Character Development: Emil  (Read 44122 times)

Róisín

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #135 on: February 14, 2016, 11:50:13 PM »
Yeah, Emil is a total pit of insecurity, covering it up with bravado and the appearance of confidence. I think he is so unthinkingly rude because that is how people treated him, but his heart seems to be good. And I would agree about the languages. He only speaks Swedish, and is probably all too used to people around him taking advantage of that.

I must say my heart went out to him in the part of the story about his school experiences. I know that one all too well! I came into the regular school system in my mid-teens, having been homeschooled partly because of sheer geographical isolation, partly because my grandmother didn't think highly of the school system. Luckily for me, I was actually as well educated as I thought myself to be, so I was fine academically, going through my last two years of high school and then on to do my science degree on Commonwealth scholarships, which back then were a competitive academic scholarship.

Where I ran into trouble was in the social aspects. I'd been raised by courteous and intelligent old people. The kids in school came across to me as grabby, dirty, loud and intrusive. 'Uncultured' would have been the kindest description. Closely followed by 'silly' and 'frivolous'. I ran into problems because I was quite ignorant of their culture, knowing less than nothing about film stars or pop music. They found me weird because I actually enjoyed studying, I was learning languages for fun, I read poetry voluntarily, and other such strange behaviours. Not to mention being tiny for my age, weird looking by their standards, and a redhead! This was even before hitting the major stumbling block of gender related matters. I was quite obviously a girl, but I was interested in 'boy things': machinery, science, space and astronomy, zoology, geology, martial arts. (A girl could get away with liking botany, fortunately for me.) So, total mutual incomprehension.

So I winced in sympathy for poor Emil at that point in the story! But I reckon he will turn out to be a far better parent than either his own parents or his aunt and uncle. He already has the innate kindness, and if he survives this expedition he should have depth of experience, and dealing with Lalli will certainly teach him patience.
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Jureeya

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #136 on: February 16, 2016, 12:42:29 PM »
Fair warning: this got long

I agree that Torbjörn is both condescending and dismissive of Emil

Oh, wow. So here we have more evidence that the Vasterstrom family just seems to have an all-around history of bad parenting. :(

I find the dynamic between Emil and Torbjörn really interesting actually. In a way, one could view Torbjörn as an example of what Emil could have become, had the family finances not gone completely to hell. As a skald, he's clearly been educated, but unlike his wife he lacks any "hard" scientific skills and when it comes time for him to enter the workforce, he's unable to find a job that requires much more than basic literacy and typing skills. It's not unreasonable to guess that like Emil, Torbjörn had access to a fancy education from an early age but wasn't forced into any subject he didn't excel at. While he does know Icelandic, it's not clear whether he was made to learn that as a requirement or whether he was inherently good at language, which wouldn't be surprising for someone who naturally learns toward skald work.

I also think that Torbjörn's character implies a lot about Emil's own family dynamic. At 38, Torbjörn is only nineteen years older than his nephew.  If we assume that Torbjörn and Emil's father don't have too many other siblings—which would be unlikely, since children of small families tend to have small families in turn and the prologue Vasterstrom's had only one child, low birth rate among Scandinavians notwithstanding—and that the two of them didn't have an inordinately large age gap between them, then Emil's father was probably in his early to mid-twenties when Emil was born (I'm not even going to go into the possibility that Torbjörn is the older sibling.)

From what I know from studying population demographics for my degree (Environmental Science, IR), while it's not uncommon for people of the middle economic classes and below to have children at this age, wealthier and more educated people tend to wait a longer time to reproduce. This is partially because they simply have better access to birth control and family planning services, but also largely because if you have enough money to pursue higher education, which the Vasterstroms clearly do, then at 24-27 you're fresh out of college and just getting into the swing of adult life. Most people want to wait until they're sure they know that they're capable of taking care of themselves and have a steady relationship before adding kids to the mix. Waiting until you're 30-35, like Torbjörn did, is much more common.

However, in my own experience, (and we're gonna be really blunt here, forgive me guys) the majority of wealthy young adults that do choose to have children straight out of university tend to have a similar mindset to each other, which is somewhere along the lines of, "okay, I'm done with college, I'm an Adult, time to settle down and have kids," and their children seem to become an accessory to substantiate their own adulthood, not least to themselves. I'm not saying that young rich parents don't love their kids, because they do, and sometimes they are very good parents. But from what I personally have seen, they usually have children before fully understanding the responsibility they are taking on, and as a result either spoil their kids or pawn them off on teachers, babysitters, and older family members so that they don't have to deal with them all the time. Which seems a lot like what Emil's parents did.

Now I know that's a bit of headcannon. Maybe Torbjörn and Emil's dad did come from a large family and/or have a significant difference in age, and maybe Emil's parents were old enough to understand the responsibility of having children and were flawed in other ways; knowing as little about his family as we do, it's impossible to say. Maybe Minna just chose an age for Torbjörn that would put him in the "old enough to be Emil's uncle but young enough not to be the Old Character" category, but I do think that it would be interesting if Emil was the child of young parents who just didn't know what to do with the responsibility of actually caring for him.

Edit: please don't take this the wrong way if you are/have young wealthy parents, I know there's a lot of generalization in this and I didn't mean to offend anyone.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 05:30:22 PM by Jureeya »
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Jureeya

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #137 on: February 24, 2016, 07:17:44 PM »
Besides that Emil can't put a foot in his mouth (at least not verbally), he wasn't scared off by Lalli's initial attitude, which might have happened if he knew that Lalli was actually judging him. He was ridiculously concerned of what his new teammates were talking about (him), but seemed to believe in second impressions as long as he wasn't clearly and verbally rejected.

I never noticed this before, but now that you've said it, I think it's actually really interesting that out of all the members of the crew, Lalli is actually the only one who does use the language barrier to talk about Emil behind his back, and yet he's the one that Emil latched on to.
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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #138 on: February 28, 2016, 12:39:45 AM »
Just because I'm in the mind to do some looking back…

"These aren't even words!" - Emil, Page 246

According to Google Translate, "antigravity propulsion" is "antigravity fremdrift" in Danish, but in Swedish, it's "antigravitations framdrivning".

So, another gap in Emil's "education", or a genuine case of his linguistic tone-deafness converging with the Swedish-Danish divide?

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #139 on: February 28, 2016, 02:38:47 AM »
So, another gap in Emil's "education", or a genuine case of his linguistic tone-deafness converging with the Swedish-Danish divide?

Apart from not having had a well-rounded education in general, I suppose that antigravity propulsion falls into the more obscure areas of knowledge post-rash. There are not very many people around and their scientific efforts will most likely be steered towards practical stuff. The physics of antigravity don't seem very relevant to a culture in which land vehicles aren't even that common...
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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #140 on: February 28, 2016, 04:27:32 AM »
Just because I'm in the mind to do some looking back…

"These aren't even words!" - Emil, Page 246

According to Google Translate, "antigravity propulsion" is "antigravity fremdrift" in Danish, but in Swedish, it's "antigravitations framdrivning".

So, another gap in Emil's "education", or a genuine case of his linguistic tone-deafness converging with the Swedish-Danish divide?

I've always thought that was just a throwaway joke about the people of the new world not really getting the old one. Emil's picked up a sci-fi book off the shelf and read a blurb that says something like "Fifty years after the invention of antigravity propulsion, humanity has colonised the inner planets..."
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Róisín

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #141 on: February 28, 2016, 05:55:20 AM »
Given where it was, I'd wondered whether it was among a stash of books the dead doctor had himself salvaged (maybe from some research project)?
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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #142 on: September 22, 2017, 07:34:45 PM »
Thread necromancy, but appropriate under current circumstances, I reckon.

Emil, falls in hole, climbs out, then runs (yes, you can run all day with a giant on your tail, yes?), starts to crunch through ice and sort of whimpers at Lalli.  Lalli saves their hash but in the process is knocked into free-fall in the magespace, which his body and Emil are marooned on a tiny ice floe.  Emil ends Chap. 16 with a tiny 'Help?'
Well, here in Chapter 17 we see Emil row the floe ashore, crunch through the shallow ice without so much as a whimper, to drag Lalli (oh well) to safety, and proceeds to drag him several hundred more meters inland to this safe house.
We are definitely seeing some heroism here from Glamour Boy.
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Róisín

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #143 on: September 23, 2017, 04:13:21 AM »
I think the capacity for heroism has always been in him, just never been given opportunity to bloom. He's doing okay!
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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #144 on: September 23, 2017, 09:54:43 AM »
I think the capacity for heroism has always been in him, just never been given opportunity to bloom. He's doing okay!

Definitely. The cool thing about Emil is that he never was *just* Glamour Boy - there's this side of him that wants to do well and help others (and Lalli most of all :P) and will go to great lengths to do so. And this is not some new development, we knew it all along - remember him shielding Lalli from train troll?

Róisín

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #145 on: September 23, 2017, 11:12:15 AM »
I do. Even though he was not himself very competent. That, and his interactions with his little cousins, predisposed me to like him.
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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #146 on: September 23, 2017, 05:22:30 PM »
Definitely. The cool thing about Emil is that he never was *just* Glamour Boy - there's this side of him that wants to do well and help others (and Lalli most of all :P) and will go to great lengths to do so. And this is not some new development, we knew it all along - remember him shielding Lalli from train troll?

Ah yes, point about the train.  It's interesting that he hasn't shown this regard for any other (human) member of the team.  (I know, I know, the shippers have seen this all along.  I really have a squick about most shipping because it's usually based on the fact that two characters exist, with that fact alone being enough to send people into paroxysms of florid fantasy.)   If Emil really was all about going heroic over vulnerable teammates, he'd have been protecting Tuuri.
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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #147 on: September 23, 2017, 05:40:05 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D *rubs hands together while flashing a big shipper smile* Yes, finally everyone sees...

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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #148 on: September 23, 2017, 05:46:53 PM »
Ah yes, point about the train.  It's interesting that he hasn't shown this regard for any other (human) member of the team.  (I know, I know, the shippers have seen this all along.  I really have a squick about most shipping because it's usually based on the fact that two characters exist, with that fact alone being enough to send people into paroxysms of florid fantasy.)   If Emil really was all about going heroic over vulnerable teammates, he'd have been protecting Tuuri.

Agree with you on the shipping- usually it's without basis and makes me uncomfortable. However, with Emil, even if I'm none to certain about the romantic parts, I think he's got something going on with Lalli, platonic or otherwise. So yeah, SSSS was the first thing I had where shipping happened in my head, even if just friendshipping.
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Re: Character Development: Emil
« Reply #149 on: September 23, 2017, 05:57:18 PM »
Definitely. The cool thing about Emil is that he never was *just* Glamour Boy - there's this side of him that wants to do well and help others (and Lalli most of all :P) and will go to great lengths to do so. And this is not some new development, we knew it all along - remember him shielding Lalli from train troll?

This is what intrigued me about Emil right away. How we (the readers) were told and shown that he is/can be a jerk, but then soon after we see that he does things that completely contradict the "jerk" mold. We knew right away he was, and is, one of those characters with very deep, hidden depths. I am so happy he has come this far in being able to be himself around people who care for him. I look forward to his growth in the future.