Post by: Gwenno on March 28, 2020, 06:56:56 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on March 28, 2020, 07:37:24 PM
New Zealand has been on Level 4 - complete lockdown - since midnight 25 March, putatively lasting for 4 weeks. We were only on Level 2 for a week and Level 3 for about 3 days, so there was a lot of panic buying here. Everybody is meant to stay in the place they were as at midnight on the 25th, leaving only to "access essential services" including supermarkets/grocery stores & pharmacies, and that's pretty much it. You can keep contact with the people in your household 'bubble', although self-isolation within a household applies for household members who have been overseas or are a close contact of a case. You are not allowed to go out, in a private car, to go fishing or hiking or such, in case you get into any difficulties which would require use of emergency responders or other support people.
Public transport is still running here on a reduced schedule, but only as an allowance for people to commute to their essential jobs (must show ID to the driver from the kerb, then enter through the back door) or access the above essential services. I live on a street where dozens of bus routes transit, and bus after bus passes by, empty.
Supermarkets are open, and restocked for most items, but there are strict rules on distancing and amount of shoppers allowed in the store at any time. Smaller operations are one-in-one-out, larger supermarkets have tape at 2m distances for people in the entry queues to stand on. Only one person from a bubble is allowed to shop at a time. There are long queues, as you might imagine, with bits of tape placed around city blocks. You are issued a trolley when you enter, as a) hand baskets are harder to sanitise between shoppers, and b) the length of the trolley is meant to help you gauge your distance from other shoppers. Some chains have installed perspex shields for the checkout staff, and cash is discouraged. Additional services like lotto kiosks or coffee stations resident in larger supermarkets are shut.
My company has always been positioned to work from anywhere, as a learning from dealing with the Christchurch earthquakes. So I am fully set up to work from home, and currently we are all busy as all get-out. I work for a quantity surveying firm, and all the QSs are putting in overtime dealing with construction companies shutting down all building sites, and virtually all pipeline estimating projects put on indefinite hold. Whether they will still be busy this time next month remains to be seen.
So here's a photo of a major arterial route at 6pm rush-hour last Thursday...
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/657084459195170817/692629504069468170/20200326_184008.jpg)
(You can get out for a walk, so long as you keep social distance, and don't go far from home.)
Post by: Alkia on March 28, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
Post by: midwestmutt on March 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Post by: Yastreb on March 29, 2020, 01:13:08 AM
Public transport is still running, but on trams the seats nearest the driver have been marked as not to be used. With the few people still travelling (at least when I've had to use it), social distancing is easy. I had to pass through the CBD on Friday and while it wasn't a ghost town, seeing only a half-dozen people where scores of hundreds would be was eerie.
Post by: Róisín on March 29, 2020, 04:25:54 AM
Post by: GaelleDragons on March 29, 2020, 07:56:46 AM
As for me, I'd say I'm pretty happy with staying at home instead of going to school every day (it saves me 3 hours per day of public transport). It's less stressfull and I can work pretty much on my own schedule, which is nice. But there are a lot of projects planned for the next few weeks which we will be unable to complete (I'm in an arts-specialized high school in Paris), like an animation course that I was really excited about, or a fashion project that I won't be able to make because all haberdasheries are closed.
I live in a small town in the far banlieue of Paris, and the rules are as strict here as they are in the capital. I used to go on long walks in the forest near my town to relax and get inspired, but the access was restricted a few days ago due to too many people going there to take walks (wich is pretty stupid in my opinion, since the forest is large enough to keep the 1 meter distance between two individuals). Though I can't complain too much, I'm fortunate enough to have a garden and I can even go take a walk on the rooftop of my garage, so it's not too bad.
Anyway, I hope you all are doing okay, and are staying inside as much as possible. Also I want to send a big message of support to all the people currently working in hospitals, they are the real heroes of this "war" (I don't know if any of you are, but I'll send lots of love and support anyway ^^)
Post by: JoB on March 29, 2020, 10:07:52 AM
I can’t do links, but you should find a reference to it if you look up coloradovirtuallibrary and ‘How Gunnison dealt with the 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic’.That'ld be here (https://www.coloradovirtuallibrary.org/digital-colorado/colorado-histories/how-gunnison-dealt-with-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic/), I suppose.
Germany has a national regulation (https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/topics/civil-protection/coronavirus/bmi-information-coronavirus.html), as well as a few states and cities enforcing still-stricter ones; to paraphrase the federal ones, max out-of-bubble crowding is one-on-one, social distancing (private spaces included) by 1.5 m is mandatory (often 2 m are suggested), all physical shops except medical, victual, and takeaway closed, plus restrictions WRT entering Germany (noticeably stricter ones than those for France (http://those for France), but not as strict as those by some of our Eastbound neighbors IIUC). Apart from the border checks, and hotels being forbidden to accept any guests other than business travelers, travel is strongly discouraged, but not outright forbidden, or subject to checkpoints. Latest statements say that the restrictions will not be lessened before 20-Apr (but, of course, may get tightened anytime if necessary).
For the healthcare situation, Germany is quite well-equipped with testing capacity (still not enough to scan the entire populace, though), ICU beds, and breathers, so German hospitals are actually taking severe COVID-19 cases off the hands of Grand Est and Northern Italy. Still no match to what will be needed should we fail to "flatten the curve", though ...
Post by: thegreyarea on March 29, 2020, 12:04:20 PM
Things are calm, and most (but sadly not all) people are respecting the advises and rules. However since the government announced that road travel between cities would be restricted (except in justified situations, like work or support to older people) some decided to move faster and tried to travel to those places, prompting a swift reaction from the police that now has checkpoints on most roads leading to beach areas and creating a few traffic jams. But now everything seems back to normal.
Bellow is a picture from the "Ribeira" area, the heart of Porto's touristic zone, that would be packed full of tourists in a Spring Sunday afternoon...
(https://i.postimg.cc/4N2G4nJf/Porto-2020-03-29.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Post by: Róisín on March 29, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
We have a new cluster of at least 18 cases near us - American and Swiss tourists who thought the rules didn’t apply to them. They were quarantined, but a couple of them drove to Adelaide anyway, where they got out by air (probably a private flight, they were tourists). What scares me is that before they were stopped they had been all over the Barossa: wineries, tourist sites, fancy food places etc etc. Dammit, the residents live here too!
Post by: Mebediel on March 29, 2020, 02:21:03 PM
Meanwhile, most of my friends and their families are still in NYC. Someone I knew from church thinks he got the virus, but since he can't be tested he just has to stay home in his small apartment with his wife (and hopefully not infect his wife) until he fully recovers. A few of my friends also work in hospitals in the city as public health workers or nurses, and they're pretty overwhelmed. One of them has been working 12 hour shifts and making face shields out of laminating sheets, EVA foam, and zip ties because her hospital isn't supplied with enough face shields. A week ago, the nurses were told that they might be transferred from their positions as primary care practitioners to urgent care units, even though that's not what they've been trained for. It makes sense, but hearing about the chaos that's been happening in a place I until recently called home has been a lot. I guess I should be glad that only one person I know has been (likely) infected so far and is recovering well, so there's that!
Post by: Solokov on March 29, 2020, 04:17:44 PM
The sheriff has floated the idea of setting up a checkpoint at the Arizona state line and main highway coming from Albuquerque to enforce the "only essential travel" orders the governor has put in place, as we've have issues with people driving from as far away as ABQ and PHX (note this one is close to an eight hour drive one way) to buy up paper goods from the local stores.
as for me? I've got supplies, I managed to snag some rolls of TP from safeway in a neighboring town and I'm considering turning my cabin fever towards productive efforts, like converting my sks into a scout rifle setup.
Post by: Windfighter on April 01, 2020, 04:23:16 PM
Otherwise the current situation is just
- Wash your hands (which most swedes I talk with seems to think is an exaggerated reaction)
- Go about your day as regulary
- A few schools have changed to online lectures
- Oh and people are hoarding pasta and baking powder
Post by: Róisín on April 02, 2020, 12:58:43 AM
Have spent the last few days going back and forth with husband to his medical appointments, since I am by far the more mobile of us, and go along both for things like getting his walking frame out of the back of the car, making sure he doesn’t fall, and understanding the medical gobbledegook (I’m not a medic myself, but enough of my friends and relations are or have been that I can at least interpret the jargon). For myself, some planned ear surgery has been indefinitely postponed (Wyrm, you were very lucky to get in ahead of the ban on ‘elective’ surgery). I will be spending some time this afternoon doing a telephone consult with my own doctor, getting scripts renewed remotely, hearing the results of my last lot of tests and so forth. Irritating, but at least saves the fuel of a lengthy round trip.
Luck and health to all!
Post by: thorny on April 02, 2020, 03:53:36 PM
Workforce reduction of 100% for non-essential services [Here’s a list of what New York State considers essential];
Evictions and foreclosures paused for 90 days;
Medical and student debt collection halted for at least 30 days;
Co-pays waived for Telehealth visits across NYS;
Unemployment restrictions lifted to ensure more availability;
Wait period for unemployment also lifted;
School year shortened by waiving 180-day requirement;
Job protections for those quarantined due to COVID-19;
Waiving mortgage payments based on financial hardship;
Creating a 90-day mortgage relief;
Preventing negative reporting to credit bureaus;
Allowing a grace period for loan modification;
Preventing late payment fees and online payment fees;
Postponing and suspending foreclosures; and
Waiving fees for overdrafts, ATMs, and credit cards.
Everyone's advised to stay home except for essential travel and the sort of outdoor exercise which it's possible to get without contact, and nobody's supposed to be gathering with anyone outside their own household, but there's nobody that I know of checking what reasons people have to be out on the roads, at least in my area.
Schools, public meetings, libraries all closed. Everything not deemed an "essential business" closed down in New York State; restaurants etc. takeout only; winery tasting rooms closed down, but wine etc. available as takeout or by mail; groceries and hardware stores open. Non-urgent medical appointments cancelled, postponed, or done over the phone.
Farmers' markets can open with restrictions; many of them wouldn't be open yet anyway, mine don't open until late May. We would currently not be able to allow crafters other than soap vendors who are allowed, and I may have to go to bat for a produce vendor who also sells flowers to be able to sell the flowers, though maybe things will be looser by then in any case. Keeping ornamental nursery plants alive and properly cared for is still considered essential business even though selling them isn't, so presumably they're expecting to allow sales eventually.
There are assorted efforts to make sure meals get to schoolchildren and others in need of them, and to get learning materials to students and to get isolated people checked on by phone. Much of this is being run by volunteers.
Grocery store stock seems highly variable by store and by item; though in general paper products and either hand sanitizer or anything to make it out of are in short supply to the point of frequent non-existence. At least some local distilleries have switched to making hand sanitizer so I expect the local supply of that to improve soon.
Downstate is getting hit very hard now and they expect it to get worse; also major cities. Some rural counties, mine included, still have only single-digit numbers of diagnosed cases in the entire county; though that may change fast. I'll probably venture out tomorrow to pick up potting soil on the other side of the lake. Am pretty well stocked up otherwise, and haven't left home for a week and shouldn't need to for a couple of weeks afterwards -- though "home" at least gives me lots of outdoor options. And indoor ones; today am trying to more or less conduct an annual farmers' market meeting by calling everyone up on the phone. Much of the membership is Old-Order Mennonite so Zoom or whatever is not an option, and there are few enough people currently involved that I decided it wasn't worth trying to figure out how to set up a conference call -- let alone how to get everybody on it at once. In more normal years we have a dinner meeting at a restaurant.
Post by: Mebediel on April 02, 2020, 04:11:46 PM
Post by: Jitter on April 02, 2020, 05:00:41 PM
Other than that we have no movement restrictions, but the government strongly recommends everybody to stay home except for completely necessary reasons. Schools are closed since 2,5 half weeks, and the closure was just extended until mid-May. Libraries, museums etc are also closed. The government wants to order restaurants and bars to close too, but it has proven surprisingly difficult to forbid private business from operating. Most of them have been closed for a while now but some are open as long as they can. The closure will likely take effect on Saturday, but food takeout will be allowed. Based on how difficult this is despite the obvious need, I don't really expect there will be forced closure of all non-essential businesses. But then I didn't expect any of this in February, so only time will tell!
Going out for a walk (or run, hike etc) is allowed, but keeping distance of at least 2 m is strongly recommended. This hasn't been a problem for us as we live in a suburban area and have a forest right around the corner. However a colleague of mine who lives in central Helsinki says it's difficult to go out for fresh air as there are so many people around it's hard to maintain the distance on the pedestrian lanes (at least we have pedestrian lanes everywhere!). Also the National Parks in the capital area and the best known nature spots have been so busy especially on weekends, that the state agency responsible for them keeps sending notifications for people to go to their nearby forests because it's not possible to keep the distance in the popular parts of the National Parks.
We have no need to cross the border from Uusimaa, but it is really weird to think there is an internal border in Finland. Must be even weirder for the conscripts who are helping police at the checkpoints! We don't have a militia-type organisation, just the civilian police force and then the Defence Forces i.e. the Finnish Armed Forces. The controlling of crossing traffic is a police operation, but for reasons of manpower Defence Forces are helping. A handful of people have been fined for illegal crossing. My parents live outside of the Zone but my brother lives in the same city (well, actually you know it's Joensuu) so we not too worried about them. We wouldn't be allowed to visit anyways. People over 70 are again strongly recommended to consign themselves into self-isolation.
Stores are mostly back to normal. Delivery service and collect-packed-groceries services are inundated so my husband goes to the store a couple of times a week. The rest of us stay home, luckily we have enough room so that each one can be alone in one room. We have two teenagers studying from home, and two adults working. Teenagers are managing surprisingly well, as is husband, I have trouble concentrating but I'm more or less waddling through.
Finland as a whole has about 1500 confirmed cases, about 150 people hospitalized and 19 deaths. No hospitals are full yet, and the fairly strict measures are of course intended to keep the situation within the realms of capacity of the health services. I'm not really scared but I am mighty worried. There is a huge surge of lay-offs (suspension of employment, or temporary termination) going on and while this hasn't affected either mine or my husband's companies at least yet, it has society-wide repercussions. Especially as it's now starting to look like the unemployment services will not be able to cope with the flood and the benefits may be delayed for several months.
Post by: Róisín on April 02, 2020, 09:59:53 PM
Post by: thorny on April 02, 2020, 10:31:37 PM
Vegetable seeds and food plants whether annual or perennial are OK here, they're both food production. And the flowers will probably be OK also -- while they're not in charge of interpretation, one of the people who sent out the NYS guidance for farm markets pointed out that the rules don't address specific items being sold, but only the type of vendor: food and soap vendors only. Our flower vendor is also a food vendor; they bring a good bit of produce and expect to bring more this year. So that should be OK even if restrictions aren't eased -- the groceries are still selling flowers and other miscellaneous, after all.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 03, 2020, 01:23:44 AM
Other than that, there is widespread speculation that the lockdown will last longer than 4 weeks in NZ, based on the 12-week wage support, mortgage holiday, and rent mitigation packages all put through in the last week.
Post by: RanVor on April 03, 2020, 08:15:44 AM
Post by: Kyara on April 03, 2020, 09:00:31 AM
In any case, I hope you are doing well.
Post by: RanVor on April 03, 2020, 09:16:06 AM
Post by: Mariiii on April 03, 2020, 11:48:08 AM
Honestly, the scariest part is that none of this surprises me the slightest. It's just the natural consequence of how things have always been done around here. Incompetence, greed and using major crises for personal/political advantage is just how the Polish elites roll.
Yes, in France it is the same, the government decided a few years ago to stop having a stock of ffp2 masks, to make savings. And now, to hide the fact that there were not enough masks for the medical staff, they lied and said that these masks were not useful, and that they couldn't stop the contamination. It is a shame, I am really pissed off about it. And it's the same with the health system, in the past few years, a lot of people asked for more money in the hospital and the government did nothing. Today they say that after this crisis things will change but honestly I don't think it will and that makes me really sad and angry.
Post by: RanVor on April 03, 2020, 01:22:30 PM
they liedYes, that sounds so very, very familiar.
Post by: Joe Steele on April 03, 2020, 06:29:30 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on April 04, 2020, 03:31:30 PM
Yes, in France it is the same, the government decided a few years ago to stop having a stock of ffp2 masks, to make savings. And now, to hide the fact that there were not enough masks for the medical staff, they lied and said that these masks were not useful, and that they couldn't stop the contamination. It is a shame, I am really pissed off about it.
According to my own fact-checking, while it's true they reduced stocks to save money and they didn't manage the end result of that lack of stock in the best way possible, the claim about ffp2 masks was actually that they weren't useful to the general public. I didn't see anything about them saying they weren't useful to medical staff. Now, it my have been an omission on your part and/or my fact-checking may have lacked depth, but the statement as you had written it was kind of misleading and we're trying to keep misinformation out of the Covid-19 threads. Many mistakes were made by various decision-makers, and being pissed off at them is completely understandable. But let's be pissed off at things that actually happened, of which there is unfortunately plenty.
[PS:I know that last part is more of a "thoughts and feelings" thing, but it felt more pertienent here]
On the subject of masks, now they're recommending the general public to wear "alternative" masks, which boils down to a "better have a mask you made yourself than nothing at all" stance.
Post by: Mebediel on April 04, 2020, 04:17:44 PM
On the subject of masks, now they're recommending the general public to wear "alternative" masks, which boils down to a "better have mask you made yourself than nothing at all" stance.The US seems to be shifting to a similar stance. One of my friends who works at a hospital in NYC has talked about how frustrating it is to see people on the subway wearing N95s when her hospital is constantly on the brink of running out. The message surrounding masks has been very confusing over here, especially since different countries are saying different things about them.
Post by: Gwenno on April 04, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
One thing that's been really frustrating here, is that people from the cities (mostly English) have been rushing here to hide away from the virus and have a nice little holiday while they're at it. Before the lockdown, the caravan places (that were still open) were heaving with people. We had an unseasonably warm week, and the local beauty spots broke all records for number of visitors. When the lockdown came into effect, these people were forced to go back home, but some have been sneaking back in at night time. There have even been online advice forums on the best ways of sneaking into Wales to avoid the police. Our village (very small) has two sets of squatters in their caravans who have decided not to leave - one in a car park on the side of the mountain (you can smell these ones, they haven't made a good job at managing their toilet waste), and another next to a public footpath who had the audacity to put a sign up on the footpath saying it was closed due to Covid 19!!! The population here is pretty elderly, with lots of retired people, and our hospitals aren't equiped to dealing with all the extra people coming in. Just this week, two people died in a care home in the village next to ours from Covid-19.
On the bright side, the local community has been super supportive. Vulnerable people are getting food delivered to them by volunteers and there's been a community effort to create protective equiptment for our hospital with any 3D printers people may have, which has been really successful and has printed a tonne. The villagers have been taking social distancing very seriously, and even the group of yobs who usually hang out at the bus shelter and cause trouble haven't been meeting up. I'm actually very impressed, and might give the yobs a bit more slack when this is all over :P
Post by: Vulpes on April 04, 2020, 07:29:34 PM
Here in Newfoundland there are still relatively few cases, although on a per capita basis I think we're comparable to the rest of the country. At just over 200 confirmed cases, we're at the beginning of the curve. Currently under-testing, as far as I can gather from the numbers, so I'm expecting a big jump soon when a bunch of people get symptoms or they test more widely. Sadly the low numbers lead to complacency, especially here on the west coast of the island. Most of the cases are 700 km away in St John's and area. In a very sad irony, 153 of the current 203 cases and the only know covid-related death can be connected to two funerals at a single funeral home. Someone came home from outside the province just days before there were recommendations about self-isolating. It seems they were asymptomatic, too.
There was the obligatory toilet paper frenzy (still waiting patiently for septic-safe TP to be re-stocked) and various other things sold out, like flour, tinned beans, and of course cleaning products. All non-essential businesses closed, and the rest have the sorts of restrictions that others have described - only letting so many people in, tape on the floors to enforce distancing, and in one grocery store, they have one-way arrows on the aisles (which people ignore...) to reduce the number of encounters.
People are being urged to limit car trips (risk of accidents) and to send one person per household to shop weekly, but there are no formal restrictions. It's hard to tell just popping into town, but it seems like most are following the guidelines. I'm hopeful that we've learned from the experiences in other areas, but the pessimist in me fears that human nature guarantees we haven't!
Post by: Mariiii on April 04, 2020, 08:31:16 PM
According to my own fact-checking, while it's true they reduced stocks to save money and they didn't manage the end result of that lack of stock in the best way possible, the claim about ffp2 masks was actually that they weren't useful to the general public. I didn't see anything about them saying they weren't useful to medical staff. Now, it my have been an omission on your part and/or my fact-checking may have lacked depth, but the statement as you had written it was kind of misleading and we're trying to keep misinformation out of the Covid-19 threads.
I checked again, and you're right, the declaration about the masks being unuseful was for the public (the fact that it was an official declaration by the government spokeperson misled me). I am really sorry about this !
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 04, 2020, 11:12:19 PM
On the downside, despite all the supermarkets crowing about how well they're managing the crisis, I still cannot find any toilet paper anywhere. I am down to a mere three rolls.
Post by: Vulpes on April 05, 2020, 08:34:42 AM
I checked again, and you're right, the declaration about the masks being unuseful was for the public (the fact that it was an official declaration by the government spokeperson misled me). I am really sorry about this !
It's easy to get misled. I spent part of one evening digging through https://www.snopes.com (https://www.snopes.com) to see how much of the stuff I see (and try to ignore) on social media is wrong, it was an illuminating and entertaining read.
Fun coincidence - when I went to confirm the Snopes url just now, the featured story was about how cats can't get covid-19! :haw:
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2020, 05:25:58 PM
Post by: thorny on April 05, 2020, 08:03:36 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html
Quote
At this time, there is no evidence that companion animals, including pets, can spread COVID-19 to people [ . . . ]
CDC has not received any reports of pets or other animals becoming sick with COVID-19 in the United States.
CDC is aware of a very small number of pets outside the United States reported to be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 after close contact with people with COVID-19. To date, there is no evidence that pets can spread the virus to other animals or people.
I don't think any of the non-human animals reported as being infected are significantly ill.
And I also don't see how I could, in practice, avoid contact with the cats. They're pretty insistent on it. And there's nobody here but me to provide it; or cat food; or medications.
Post by: midwestmutt on April 05, 2020, 11:09:04 PM
Post by: Róisín on April 05, 2020, 11:13:30 PM
Post by: midwestmutt on April 05, 2020, 11:32:51 PM
Post by: thorny on April 06, 2020, 10:42:34 AM
Hope the handler recovers also.
Post by: Vulpes on April 06, 2020, 08:10:18 PM
Several big cats at the Bronx Zoo were sick, they and their keeper are recovering fine! There's a paper on bioArXiv that supposedly documents infection in domestic cats; I haven't read it properly but I think it involved three cats and they were exposed to very high viral loads. It's not gone through peer review so I wouldn't put a lot of faith in its results yet. I have yet to find any reliable reports of household pets being infected by ill owners, so if it does happen it must be vanishingly rare. But don't rely on your cat to keep you safe from covid-19! ;)
Post by: Yastreb on April 07, 2020, 08:43:52 AM
On the downside, despite all the supermarkets crowing about how well they're managing the crisis, I still cannot find any toilet paper anywhere. I am down to a mere three rolls.
Weird - just a few days back, in Melbourne, there was toilet paper in one IGA, but the smallest package was a twelve-pack.
Post by: Unseelie on April 07, 2020, 11:35:15 AM
Masks became mandatory in supermarkets and public transport, making shopping a somewhat creepy experience. At least we never ran out of toilet paper.
Post by: Vulpes on April 08, 2020, 06:24:59 PM
[...]
On the downside, despite all the supermarkets crowing about how well they're managing the crisis, I still cannot find any toilet paper anywhere. I am down to a mere three rolls.
My theory is that despite the mockery, and the assurances that there's plenty, people are continuing to hoard it. To my delight, I found septic safe TP on my last shopping trip - and a big sign on the shelf limiting it to two packs per customer. By contrast, the local dairy farmers are asking the stores to not limit purchases, and telling people to just buy milk as normal, because (a) the cows do not stop producing in a pandemic and (b) they've lost their usual market for excess milk in the next province.
During "Snowmageddon" in St John's (other side of Newfoundland from me, 700 km away) they were under a state of emergency for over a week; a friend's son posted a picture of his liquor cabinet on social media and offered to trade booze for toilet paper! So I guess Newfoundlanders were primed to worry about TP shortages.
Post by: Grade E cat on April 13, 2020, 03:21:21 PM
Post by: Mélusine on April 13, 2020, 03:40:58 PM
We've just been officially told that we're hunkering down for another four weeks over here.And that after they want to re-open daycares and schools, but not test everybody because hahaha, why to care about that, workers ?
They will have to explain to me how to work in a daycare with masks (Spoilers : it's not possible, either we scare the babies, either the olders will try to take them off) and how we can respect the strong hygienic rules : do we forbid the parents to come inside and take/give them kids as packages at the post office ? (I'm pretty angry. My headmistress suspects me to have had it, the covid, and if it's true, it happened at work - Work at which I spend my time washing my hands, coughing in my elbow and all of that just because it's the bases for us in our job.)
Post by: wavewright62 on April 13, 2020, 04:52:28 PM
Is there a stigma surrounding recovered CV19 patients? I haven't noticed that here, but is this a thing elsewhere?
Post by: Vulpes on April 13, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
Is there a stigma surrounding recovered CV19 patients? I haven't noticed that here, but is this a thing elsewhere?
Surely those recovered are seen as "safe" due to presumed immunity? I've been not following most news on purpose, but there was something about using blood plasma from recovered covid patients as a sort of vaccine. Sounds a little risky to me, but there are apparently people trying to catch it to gain immunity.
Of course if the virus mutates significantly, that immunity will be partial at best...
No idea how long we're expected to keep up the distancing here, they were projecting a peak in cases sometime in the fall... it's going to be a long haul.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 13, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 13, 2020, 10:00:06 PM
I finally managed to find toilet paper at the supermarket on Saturday, so that's something at least.
Post by: thegreyarea on April 14, 2020, 06:12:30 AM
Wrym, I'm happy to know that you are doing well. Australia already have too many problems lately. And the TP return is also a reason to celebrate! :)
We had the TP problem in Portugal, but now things are back to balance and there's no shortage (also there must be people with year-long stocks...). We seem to be doing well too, to the point there are talks about how the lockdown restrictions will be gradually lifted. A little too soon, I believe, but to have some planning ahead won't hurt.
Post by: JoB on April 14, 2020, 06:51:49 AM
Surely those recovered are seen as "safe" due to presumed immunity?The jury's still out on how reliable and how long-term the immunity from a cured case of Covid-19 actually is. Right now, the experts are discussing whether the handful patients in Asia that went pos-neg-pos are due to unreliable tests, a flareup of the original infection that was not quite gone yet, or an actual reinfection. (And IMHO that list is still missing the possibility of immunity simply being incomplete in the occasional patient.)
Having that said, stigmatization (https://www.docrat.com.au/comic/covid-19-what-happened-secondly/) and facts/logic tend to be rather distant relatives.
but there was something about using blood plasma from recovered covid patients as a sort of vaccine.Cure/treatment, not vaccine. The antibodies contained in the plasma flag the currently present viruses for the patient's immune system to combat; in order for it to deal with a later ingression, it has to learn to constantly produce antibodies itself.
Of course if the virus mutates significantly, that immunity will be partial at best...As far as we currently know, the mutation rate of SARS-CoV-2 seems to be the "usual" one for coronaviruses. High enough to allow to determine which continent one's local outbreak has come from (hence the reports that the U.S. was primarily infected by travelers from Europe, not Asia), low enough not to invalidate the theory that the similarity to bat CoVs indicates that that's where it originally came from (possibly through another intermediary host species, though), and IIUC less than the mutation rate of the common flu.
I can't help thinking that setting out purposefully to get this is, to put it mildly, folly.The jury is also still out on the question of residual long-term effects of an infection past. Lasting deterioration of lung and nerve tissues are possibilities currently on the table.
On the other hand, until effective treatments and/or vaccinations are available, herd immunity (after an estimated 60-70% of the populace had the infection) is the only thing that can reliably prevent (localized) outbreaks, and thus "extra" deaths due to insufficient healthcare resources. As a species, we're pretty much facing a "one ugly bird at hand or two in the making in the labs (and we don't have the slightest when we'll be able to get the latter)" choice there.
On a personal note ... I'm still out of nation to support family, and in the meantime, Germany introduced a general "two weeks of quarantine upon return" rule - which supposedly has been agreed upon on the federal level, but needs to be implemented as state jurisdiction. As a result, when I return home (https://www.land.nrw/sites/default/files/asset/document/2020-04-09_coronaeinreisevo_nrw_mit_begruendung.pdf), I can be granted an exception from the rule, but as soon as I go on to my workplace (https://www.hessen.de/sites/default/files/media/lesefassung1.coronavo_1.pdf), the stated exceptions in §2(1)5. go poof. O_o
(Also, out of the three states I can go through as I return, one (https://corona.saarland.de/DE/service/medieninfos/_documents/pm_2020-04-09-ein-rueckreisen.html) is apparently unable to publish the actual legal wording online, and another version (https://www.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/service/aktuelle-infos-zu-corona/verordnung-fuer-ein-und-rueckreisende/) has apparently lost the explicit end date as their state government shoved the authority to issue the exact rules further down to its ministry of social affairs.)
Post by: JoB on April 14, 2020, 11:52:35 AM
They will have to explain to me how to work in a daycare with masks (Spoilers : it's not possible, either we scare the babies [...](I suppose that swaddling (https://www.france24.com/en/20200414-thai-hospitals-protect-babies-born-in-a-pandemic-with-face-shields) is as unusual in France as it is in Germany?)
Post by: Mélusine on April 14, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
(I suppose that swaddling (https://www.france24.com/en/20200414-thai-hospitals-protect-babies-born-in-a-pandemic-with-face-shields) is as unusual in France as it is in Germany?)I never saw that. We have babies and young kids between now 4/5 months old and 3 years. I let you imagine how fast they would manage to take that off ^-^
Post by: Vulpes on April 14, 2020, 08:10:50 PM
On the bright side, I won't be having a field research season this year because of covid, so I'll have more time for those side-interests!
Post by: Jitter on April 15, 2020, 05:09:37 PM
All it the other rules still stand and schools etc remain closed. I very much hope people don’t take this as a “back to normal” signal, because we could easily blow this up now and waste all that has been gained during recent weeks. Already over Easter weekend it was starting to look like people were slacking, there were more people in for example the play areas in the park than there should have been. Obviously we were also outside or we wouldn’t have seen, but we managed to keep distance on our way to the woods with doggo.
So far the restrictions have worked, we have about 3300 confirmed cases and both hospitalizations and no of patients in intensive care seem to be leveling. Deaths are steadily increasing but no explosion, as of today we have had 72. This is in stark contrast with Sweden, where the death toll has climbed to 1200. They aren’t so far even trying to do much to slow it. So, if we blow this up now, we know what’s coming. Hopefully we won’t!
I had my first project kick-off meeting over MS Teams and it was ok. But it is a lot harder! We’ll probably have to have a workshop like that too, it’s going to be a real challenge. I should look into “how to have good online meetings” well in beforehand.
Post by: Vulpes on April 15, 2020, 08:01:18 PM
Post by: Crumpite on April 15, 2020, 09:00:57 PM
We've got perhaps 40 or do cases in the nearest city's with only a few deaths.
Our kids are delivering groceries to us so we don't need to expose ourselves except for Dr. visits and pharmacy pickups.
My wife is getting a bit of cabin fever and I'm still too sick from chemo to care much either way.
Our kids are all doing well, they all still have jobs and are well.
My wife and daughter are sewing facemasks and donating them.
My daughter sells a few to get money to buy more material to make more.
My wife dropped off a bag of them to a local grocery store run by a church (run as a nonprofit so cheap prices)
A couple of minutes later some of the staff were seen running some errands outside while wearing her masks. 😀
It's good to help....
The local blithering idiots league here in Michigan held a protest at our state capital, complaining about our strict shelter in place orders. Not a one with a mask or gloves while congregating in big groups...
It's all a government plot to make Trump look bad, ya know.
When I'm called to explain my sins in the next world, I'll have to admit to wishing (at times) to see a virus that killed off politicians and lawyers. I may get to see the next best thing, one that kills off idiots instead...
Man, it's hard to maintain a positive attitude lately 😟😞😖
The positive thing is that people are really reaching out to help each other all over the world.
With a little luck folks will remember and reflect a bit on that before climbing back into the rat race.
Post by: Róisín on April 15, 2020, 10:10:14 PM
We are still alive despite the two clusters of idiot tourists who came to the Barossa to ride it out in luxury despite knowing some of their groups were infected. They were a few miles from here but the bunch who stayed at the Louise resort were almost next door to a friend who lives in the Barossa, an Afghanistan veteran who has just come out of hospital after major spinal surgery and is immunocompromised. That particular bunch of selfish fools visited wineries, shops and markets without a thought for who they were infecting. The penalty of our living in a food and wine tourism area, I suppose.
A lot of my work and income has disappeared. At this time of year I am usually taking foraging classes out into the forest, as the cooler weather brings out the edible fungi and other wild foods. But not with this going on. But I am still selling my produce at the Farmers Market. We will survive. I’m more worried about husband, who is a much more social being than am I, and misses sitting at my market stall chatting to folk, or helping people sort out their computers or mobile phones. He finds the distancing hard. He is at least still able to chat on the internet with people.
Post by: Yastreb on April 15, 2020, 10:46:35 PM
The local blithering idiots league here in Michigan held a protest at our state capital, complaining about our strict shelter in place orders. Not a one with a mask or gloves while congregating in big groups...
And when one them says "People are sick and tired of it," the irony is staggering.
Post by: Róisín on April 15, 2020, 10:53:30 PM
Post by: Jitter on April 16, 2020, 02:25:52 AM
Secondly, Crumpite! It’s great to hear from you! I’m very glad to learn you and yours are doing well! Do I recall correctly that you mentioned having had the Covid disease while you were in the hospital? Or did I misunderstand? Good to know you are safe and being cared for.
Róisín, all cheers to your husband. At least we have the online communities nowadays! I can only imagine what it has been like in the past. I am coping well with the distancing, largely thanks to all you guys!
Post by: Róisín on April 16, 2020, 02:55:18 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on April 16, 2020, 03:25:16 AM
We've also had our own idiots claiming the pandemic was fake. The most memorable so far are the people who film the empty waiting rooms and general public reception areas of hospitals to prove they aren't actually taking in as many patients as the media is claiming. In normal times, those areas are for no-immediate-risk-of-life cases and people visiting patients, which hospitals have stopped taking in weeks ago. And Covid patients aren't exactly going to be in areas some random person coming from outside can wander into.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 20, 2020, 07:12:01 PM
Pro: we are not down to zero yet and we are not okay with possible harm, especially if we move just before a holiday weekend
Con: we need to start parts of our economy again
A compromise was reached - we will move to Level 3 (still pretty restrictive) at midnight on 27 April, just at the end of the long weekend. I think that was an excellent choice, and I'm pretty happy with Jacinda right now.
Post by: Parker B. on April 21, 2020, 12:07:51 AM
This is of course a bad thing for preventing the spread of the Corona virus, and as a result, we've been badly hit by the virus. Much of the state is now shut down, and UNO has moved to online classes.
I'm getting a little anxious about not being able to go anywhere freely, but I'm staying home regardless, working on various projects.
Post by: Jitter on April 21, 2020, 08:37:05 AM
Parker, I’m sorry I can’t depicher what areas you mean as I either don’t know or have forgotten your country.
Post by: Róisín on April 21, 2020, 08:50:26 AM
Post by: LooNEY_DAC on April 21, 2020, 11:15:13 AM
Is NOLA maybe something to do with New Orleans/Louisiana?To coin a phrase, the very same.
Well, first off, people down here in the NOLA area really love their parties. (I don't care for them, but that's besides the point.)/me waves hi from Belle Chasse
Post by: Parker B. on April 21, 2020, 12:26:56 PM
Is NOLA maybe something to do with New Orleans/Louisiana?
Yes, I'm from the New Orleans area, in a small town called Metairie. My apologies, bit I seem to have picked up that particular language tick from living here for my whole life.
*Waves to LooNEY_DAC from Metairie*
Post by: Jitter on April 21, 2020, 02:14:18 PM
Post by: Lenny on April 22, 2020, 03:42:12 AM
What they have done is relaxed rules a little about sports for kids and professional athletes after the end of this month, and primary schools only are opening again 11 May.... partially. Classes being halved and school being half online and half at school. After school care is supposedly also opening up again. They're leaving implementation of this up to the schools themselves, so I imagine that quite a few will stay closed or have a higher balance of online classes. I imagine they're doing this mostly because parents trying to work at home are having a hell of a time. Housing and personal backyards etc. here are tiny and it's dealt with by doing a lot of things outside the house and having communal playgrounds and things. Since it's looking like this will last for several months still it's an attempt to lighten the load a bit.
What they've also done is relaxed the rules for visitors to the elderly - they're allowed to have one or two set visitors. Which is great, continued total isolation is really bad mentally and just having one person allowed to check in on you regularly lightens that up.
The extension of events means that yeeeah no wedding for me. We'll get married at a courthouse as soon as we possibly can (not that soon, maybe in two months time), and maybe just have a party next year sometime.
Post by: Mélusine on April 22, 2020, 08:14:59 AM
The extension of events means that yeeeah no wedding for me. We'll get married at a courthouse as soon as we possibly can (not that soon, maybe in two months time), and maybe just have a party next year sometime.I'm sorry for both of you, Len :( You've been in my mind. Hopefully you'll get at least reunited soon...
Here all is a big mess. Our dear president and government seems to think that we should all wear mask in common spaces and transports for the reopening, but to date it's impossible to find some, and I highly doubt that "One mask for everybody" will be manageable before May 11th (Just for going to work and back, I need two masks per day...)
I still have no news about daycare's reopening, and I'm waiting to discover what impossible rules they're about to give to us. I fear that we will just have to work with absolutely no protection at all *Sighs*
Post by: Lenny on April 23, 2020, 04:06:14 AM
I'm sorry for both of you, Len :( You've been in my mind. Hopefully you'll get at least reunited soon...
I'm hoping so, too :'> But we're not counting on it. The safest way to get them into the country is to get them a proper visa, we could use wedding or seeing me as a reason to get in but there's no guidelines anywhere on what constitutes an "urgent family reason" so it's not worth being possibly turned back at the border. Visa will take about three months from now, if it's not delayed. *sighs*
Here all is a big mess. Our dear president and government seems to think that we should all wear mask in common spaces and transports for the reopening, but to date it's impossible to find some, and I highly doubt that "One mask for everybody" will be manageable before May 11th (Just for going to work and back, I need two masks per day...)
I still have no news about daycare's reopening, and I'm waiting to discover what impossible rules they're about to give to us. I fear that we will just have to work with absolutely no protection at all *Sighs*
Oooof... the only way I'd see that working with the mask shortage is to have people use reusable masks. And you'd probably have to make them yourself. Not as effective as proper PPE but most people wouldn't use PPE properly anyway (I know I personally would not be able to without a lot of work, I touch and fiddle with too many things unconsciously), it's better than nothing.
Daycares opening here again is something I'm worried about too, though they have only mentioned after-school care reopening. Hopefully it sticks to that for now. I can see it being possible but difficult to stay safe with a small group of 6-10 year olds, but completely impossible with toddlers and babies. Am hoping things work out reasonably for you over there :<
Post by: Róisín on April 23, 2020, 06:47:26 AM
Lenny, I hope so hard that you two are able to complete your nuptials. I know it is hard, but I can tell you from personal experience that adversity can deepen and strengthen a relationship, and it is always worth trying. Good luck to you both!
Mélusine, I hope your government gets itself sorted out - I would have thought that they might do as has happened here, where childcare workers are right up there with the essential workers. For one thing, somebody has to care for the kids of medics, nurses, teachers, police, delivery drivers and the folk who restock supermarkets, without all of whom society would grind to a messy halt!
If you wind up having to make your own masks, you may be better to use several layers of a breathable fabric, since what you are after, according to the advice of medical people around here, is a maze effect of layers in which droplets can be trapped. If you change and wash your masks after each outing, and dry them in sunlight that may help. And the social distancing is important too, as is hand washing and sanitising surfaces, since it seems the virus can survive for several hours on things like doorknobs, handrails and such surfaces. Good luck!
Post by: Grade E cat on April 23, 2020, 08:51:40 AM
In terms of making masks, I happen to own a handful of bandanas and a bunch of thin, but fairly extensible hair ties, so my mother and I have effectively have washable masks (there are plenty of tutorials to make them online).
Post by: Mélusine on April 23, 2020, 03:13:07 PM
Children of serveral categories of essential workers (health workers at least) are still being cared for here, but that only requires a fraction of the childcare workers, so a large majority of them are currently out of work nonetheless.Indeed. At the beginning I thought that I could be called, including by the maternity hospital.
I know that there are some explanation to make your own mask at home, but I have no fabric and hair ties (Hello, short hair since years !) so it's not helping at all for now and won't solve the everyday problem, I fear so :/ Let's wait and have low expectations...
Post by: PaperArtillery on April 25, 2020, 07:48:27 AM
Made all the more infuriating that I tested positive, got stupid ill (hacking cough, fever, fatigue, headache, you name it), made it through once, and now there's news you can get it again. My GF is a teacher and is starting to show symptoms, so...concern level 9000.
Way to go, US.
Post by: Róisín on April 25, 2020, 08:28:22 AM
My most sincere wishes that both of you will come out of this okay, and that your government soon returns to sanity and a science-based approach to this pandemic. Good luck, good luck, and good luck!
Post by: wavewright62 on April 25, 2020, 06:47:44 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on April 25, 2020, 06:48:28 PM
Post by: Keep Looking on April 25, 2020, 09:55:57 PM
Post by: Abprallen on April 27, 2020, 04:39:07 PM
People over here just aren't taking it seriously :( I see people every day meeting up for picnics, of all things, meeting up to cycle together, literally having friends over (my bedroom window is fantastic for people watching, but not so great for my blood pressure right now). It's insane. We've got 20k+ reported dead. They're spitting in the faces of the NHS they so enthusiastically clap for every week. (If anyone thought that was a joke, or was a one time thing - it's not. I can tell when it's 8pm on Thursday because people pour outside into the streets to clap, scream, bang pots and pans together, and beep the horns of their cars. It's a ridiculous vanity project considering my area, but to go any more into that delves into politics, so I shan't)
Our supermarkets are also only allowing in a certain number at a time, and have us queue up outside at 2m intervals (we also must go in alone, not allowed to shop in pairs anymore) and have strips on the floor dictating 2m intervals, but once you're inside it's totally ignored despite the staff going around trying to enforce it & the loudspeaker notices :/ But going around, I see people wearing face masks, which is cool!
... if only they were wearing them correctly TT_TT sir, that's meant to be covering your nose, too... Also spotted a gentleman eating a packet of crisps whilst waiting in the queue, wearing latex gloves, and having his face mask hanging from his ear. I can only assume he'd been wearing said gloves throughout his entire shop. PPE? Wasted. Siiigh.
On the plus side I can buy toilet paper again, though! Fingers crossed flour returns to the shelves soon.
Post by: Yastreb on April 27, 2020, 09:43:08 PM
Post by: Mebediel on April 27, 2020, 11:05:18 PM
The number of COVID-19 cases in the US has exceeded one million, with almost 57,000 deaths. I sense - and fear - that such a figure might be a tipping point in reactions to the crisis, and not in a good way. I hope that I'm wrong.I hope so too :/ It would be terrible for our numbers to skyrocket again due to people reacting poorly. At least one of my friends who works as a nurse has gotten the virus and had to continue working due to how understaffed the hospitals currently are in NYC, and I've heard (anecdotally, so I don't have news sources for it) that that's been common for hospitals in New Jersey as well. I can't imagine how overwhelming it would be for them to get a resurgence of patients.
Meanwhile, here in Illinois, our shelter-in-place has been extended until May. My sister drove down from Chicago to stay with me outside of the city for a bit. She's been isolated in her apartment up there because her roommates all went back to stay with their families in the suburbs, and since she has her own car, she didn't have to come into contact with anyone to come down here. It means that she's able to get groceries and things more safely than she would in the city, and it also means that our parents have to worry less :P
Post by: Purple Wyrm on April 28, 2020, 12:56:34 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on April 28, 2020, 11:34:08 AM
I'm hoping that people will keep their overall good behavior, but there's just too many idiots running around with their masks under their noses...
Post by: wavewright62 on April 29, 2020, 02:28:57 AM
Yesterday was the first day of Level 3, which allowed contactless takeaways and deliveries, and I hear that people were queueing from 3am to get their Macca's fix. My Facebook feed is filled with people holding takeaway coffees as well.
(I don't get it, personally.)
I will get some takeaways from a *local* eatery at some point this week, but haven't decided whose yet. My favourite Indian restaurant hasn't gotten their contactless system going quite yet. (Plus, I have leftovers that need eating.)
I put in a day in the office yesterday, but am at home the rest of the week. It's certainly a lot noisier, now that construction across the street is back on, and the 18 major projects within a 3-block radius of my apartment are going ahead with distancing measures in place.
Post by: Crumpite on April 29, 2020, 05:04:50 AM
Our legislature is going it's best to undo all her good work but they are hampered by the support she's getting from the people.
A few businesses are being allowed to reopen on a trial basis, so we shall see in a few weeks if it was a mistake.
Cases are still increasing, but more slowly than before.
Like many other places people are getting stir crazy and folks are still ignoring the rules.
My wife was shopping for groceries and dropping off masks she made and found too many were still being stupid with no masks and maintaining distance.
Meat packing plants are shutting down due to illness due to lack of PPE and bad conditions in the plants.
The president has ordered the plants reopened which will give the workers the choice of getting sick or quietly starving.
Our food chain has been allowed to be concentrated in just a few hands controlled by cartels that fix working conditions and wages . As a result we're facing a food crisis now...
It's looking more and more like the great depression.
I sure hope I'm wrong !
Like I told my sister the other day, being poor when we were young has given us the skills to survive this better than most folks.
Grumble, grumble, grumble... one of my nick names was "the grump from Crump"...
I wish everyone health and happiness and don't let me get on your nerves 😀
Post by: RanVor on April 29, 2020, 06:28:09 AM
Post by: Róisín on April 29, 2020, 07:52:14 AM
We old grumps can be useful and can pass on our hard-earned survival skills. Luck and safety to you and yours, and to all of us.
Post by: DancingRanger on April 29, 2020, 10:08:13 PM
Post by: Jitter on April 30, 2020, 06:01:47 PM
The restrictions will be loosened "gradually and in a controlled fashion" so we don't know yet what other changes there may be. Also the schools are supposed to be arranged in such a way as to make sure distancing can still be observed. However I don't think that's likely to work, there's not enough room in many school buildings as it is. Or the teaching hours will be cut a lot and half of the kids will go in the morning and the other half in the afternoon.
We have managed to flatten the curve quite well. The total number of confirmed cases is just under 5000 with 211 deaths. The numbers of people in hospital and intensive care have been going down for over a week now. So far it seems to work, of course time will tell what happens when we try to go back to normal.
Today is Vappu, the First of May (and the eve is the main event as for some reason the case seems to be in Finland). There was a lot of concern over whether people will stay in, but so far it looks like people are being really good. Almost no large gatherings have been detected. The limit on gatherings is 10 people, and in some of the most popular parks there have been some dozens of people, but not thousands as the case would normally be. The 1st is traditionally a picnic day, let's hope the quiet behaviour keeps up!
No other news on the loosening of requirements have yet been given. The ban on large gatherings (rock festivals and such) i.e. over 500 people was extended until end of July recently, but no timetable as to the 10 person limit, which effects closures of e.g. cinemas, theaters, museums and libraries, is available yet. We haven't had ordered closures of businesses except for restaurants, bars and cafes, and that is in force still (until end June I think), only takeaway is allowed. Most small businesses such as hairdressers etc. have obviously taken a heavy hit, although I haven't been keeping tabs to see if they are mostly closed or mostly open.
Currently I'm more worried about Africa and the US, and of course the potential second and subsequent waves. Time will tell. It's not the end of the world, but it is an apocalypse rehearsal. Hopefully next time (and the next time WILL come) we will be better prepared!
Post by: Vulpes on April 30, 2020, 08:06:05 PM
What has me baffled is that the town of Bonavista has been complaining that people from out of province and even the States have been turning up to look at icebergs. People entering the province from anywhere are required to self-isolate for 14 days, and only essential travellers are supposed to be allowed on the ferries, so how they're getting in, I don't know. And why!? Take Nova Scotians - they're just across the Cabot Strait, living with the same sort of restrictions, probably hearing news from Newfoundland just as we hear their news, and yet many of these unexpected visitors are in cars with NS plates. What would make them think it's okay to get on the ferry and take an iceberg-watching vacation? I just don't get it.
Post by: thorny on April 30, 2020, 10:54:47 PM
Newfoundland is getting ready to start loosening restrictions. As of today, each household may choose one other household to interact with. Basically you can merge your "bubble" with one other, neither household can visit with any others.
Wow, that sounds like it's asking for a whole lot of arguments and hurt feelings.
Post by: thegreyarea on May 01, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
Wow, that sounds like it's asking for a whole lot of arguments and hurt feelings.
"why you chose her bubble and not mine ?" ::) This is going to be complicated... And who will keep track of all those bubble connections? And make sure that people stay inside their chosen connections? Sounds completely unpractical to implement.
Post by: Crumpite on May 01, 2020, 09:24:18 PM
The guy showed up this afternoon, gloved and masked and observing proper distancing !
It was good to see for a change 😀
If I read the equations and tea leaves correctly, we can expect to see another wave in the US starting in less than a month.
Most state governments are totally ignoring the guidelines for reopening.
Too many fortunes are being lost by following the rules, ya know...
I wouldn't mind it so much except my wife and I will likely die if we catch the rash (we're both in I'll health.)
It's such a breath of fresh air to correspond with sane, intelligent folks on this list.
It helps me maintain my sanity, I tell you !
I need to stop watching so much news... 😱😱😱
Post by: wavewright62 on May 02, 2020, 02:12:34 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/xZ1lBLX.png)
I am glad your repairer was onto it, though, often sole-trader types aren't as diligent.
Edit: gosh the Prologue is amazing:
(http://i.imgur.com/szehFL7.jpg)
Post by: Jitter on May 02, 2020, 12:28:06 PM
If I understand correctly you are in a fairly secluded spot? Can you get groceries delivered?
Please also remember that not even the old and frail always get the hard version. Now with your recent chemo the situation is worrying, but please don’t write yourselves off! You are probably in monitoring, right? Has the white cell count recovered?
I got very ill once during my chemo but luckily the white cells recovered fairly quickly after a few shots of filgrastim so I got back home after a few days at the hospital. After that I had to inject pegfilgrastim at home before each chemo (mine was administered as outpatient treatment, just a drip every 3 weeks for 6 times) and that helped. The shot I got at home costs over 1000 euro per shot, but I paid a couple of euros, and the taxpayers picked up the bill. I haven’t been one to complain about taxes even beforehand, but after the cancer I really am happy to live in a country with high taxes :)
Here are the mages who are putting several protection charms on you and your wife: :lalli: :onni: :reynir:
Post by: thegreyarea on May 02, 2020, 05:23:58 PM
Since Jitter already enlisted our mages I'll have a word with Reynir, so don't be surprised to see a huge stave draw around your house and a glimpse of a long red braid...
I'll also talk with Väinö to make sure that anyone without a mask that comes close to your house will be immediately bombed by a group of seagulls. :)
Post by: RanVor on May 02, 2020, 07:03:39 PM
Crumpite, You are not allowed to die. No exceptions on that rule. Please be very careful and stay at home unless it's absolutely necessary.Seconded. Also, just out of curiosity...
Since Jitter already enlisted our mages I'll have a word with Reynir, so don't be surprised to see a huge stave draw around your house and a glimpse of a long red braid...
I'll also talk with Väinö to make sure that anyone without a mask that comes close to your house will be immediately bombed by a group of seagulls. :)
Spoiler: show
Post by: Mebediel on May 02, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Errm, 1,000 pushups?Spoiler: show
But yes, no dying = good. And reducing news intake at the moment is definitely helpful for reducing stress, even though it's still a good idea to keep an eye on headlines/local news :P
If I read the equations and tea leaves correctly, we can expect to see another wave in the US starting in less than a month.If you asked my mom, she would say that's already happening in my city (she lives in a different state). There were 7 new cases yesterday, and today there are 9 new cases, which is enough of an increase to make her start worrying. I hope the increase nothing more than a blip instead of a sign of the start of a second wave, but I also hope that the second wave of the virus isn't nearly as big as the first one when it does eventually hit us.
Post by: wavewright62 on May 03, 2020, 06:03:30 AM
Fortunately, we have none of those types within this community.
Well, unless you count wraparound good wishes to be an indignity. It occurs to me that you just might.
Post by: RanVor on May 03, 2020, 07:05:02 AM
To RanVor: inflict sundry indignities causing those you left behind to suffer even more. A specialty of despots and tyrants throughout the ages.I must admit I don't understand. Could you clarify?
Fortunately, we have none of those types within this community.
Well, unless you count wraparound good wishes to be an indignity. It occurs to me that you just might.
Post by: JoB on May 03, 2020, 07:33:45 AM
I'll also talk with Väinö to make sure that anyone without a mask that comes close to your house will be immediately bombed by a group of seagulls. :)Given the local fauna, you might get better deterrence from Sointu (http://www.sssscomic.com/comic2.php?page=177) ...
Also, just out of curiosity...Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Post by: Róisín on May 03, 2020, 07:40:44 AM
JoB, I reckon Sointu might be a good idea for those fools.
Post by: Vulpes on May 03, 2020, 08:45:04 AM
Wow, that sounds like it's asking for a whole lot of arguments and hurt feelings.
"why you chose her bubble and not mine ?" ::) This is going to be complicated... And who will keep track of all those bubble connections? And make sure that people stay inside their chosen connections? Sounds completely unpractical to implement.
Yup, you guys had the same reaction I did - there are going to be tears. Nobody's trying to enforce this that I know of, it's on the honour system. People have been pretty good, just the odd one like the woman who was arrested twice in one day for not observing the mandatory 14 days self-isolation on entering the province. There's a number people can call to report violations.
I remember a friend talking about the hell of Christmas visits - the two sets of in-laws would carefully tote up the time the family spent with them, and get really upset if they spent even so much as a few hours more with the other in-laws. And this was over a several days visit to each. Families like that are going to have a rough time.
Post by: Vulpes on May 03, 2020, 08:47:06 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on May 03, 2020, 10:09:17 AM
Post by: JoB on May 03, 2020, 02:46:49 PM
like the woman who was arrested twice in one day for not observing the mandatory 14 days self-isolation on entering the province.I take it that she tested negative after that? Positive people playing fast+loose with their restrictions tend to experience more pronounced reactions (https://www.ksta.de/politik/corona-tests-in-hochhauskomplex--fuenf-bewohner-infiziert-36614504) ...
Yes, JoB and Roisín, being intercepted by a bunch of snakes seems way more effective than being bombed by seagulls. If you put an anaconda in that bunch it can be an even more effective (and definitive) mean of deterrence... :)Erm, anacondas are South American, and Sointu is called "eyes of vipers" - for whatever that's worth (living in Finland, she certainly never had a chance to try her mental hand at boids).
I admit that I did not check the habitat maps of EDBs, WDBs, Timbers, what-have-you to see whether Crumpite is suitably surrounded, though. >:D
(... and let's not start discussing at length how useful extending one's sensory organs with the eyes of most snakes actually is for detecting problems at a distance ... being the "pits of vipers" might actually prove more useful for the purpose.)
Post by: Róisín on May 03, 2020, 03:30:28 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on May 03, 2020, 05:19:19 PM
As for the Anaconda, we can always imagine that some circus or zoo near Crumpite has one, and that it escaped (what would be alarming if it wasn't under the control of a fictional Finnish mage from the Future :) )
As for update from my zone, today Portugal ends its "State of Emergency" and steps down to "State of Calamity" :D
...
Ok, now that you stopped laughing, let me tell you that it means a lot, because some contention rules will be lifted, signaling a slow return to activity (just some kind of business, usually small) and, most important, that I'll finally get a haircut! :)
Post by: JoB on May 03, 2020, 06:20:05 PM
My dear JoB, what will I do without your inquisitive mind checking the accuracy of my posts?... make a fortune as a producer of Tarzan movies?
(Tarzan is supposed to live in Africa, but the various movies frequently show animals like reticulated pythons (Asia) or piranhas (South America) to the sound of Kookaburras (Australia).)
So, as Crumpite (and you, dear reader of this post) you are forbidden to die in the coming times, under the penalty of 1000 push-ups, as Mebediel pointed.No problem, our garden centers are open and should be able to provide the required plants (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/push_up_daisies). O:-)
As for the Anaconda, we can always imagine that some circus or zoo near Crumpite has one, and that it escaped (what would be alarming if it wasn't under the control of a fictional Finnish mage from the Future :) )If we have to employ a time-traveler from the future already, shouldn't we try to even out the effects on the timeline (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanoboa) ... ?
As for update from my zone, today Portugal ends its "State of Emergency" and steps down to "State of Calamity" :DLet me guess, public celebrations will happen once Portugal has worked its way back to "State of Mild Inconvenience"? :3
...
Ok, now that you stopped laughing, let me tell you that it means a lot, because some contention rules will be lifted, signaling a slow return to activity (just some kind of business, usually small) and, most important, that I'll finally get a haircut! :)
Hairdressers in Germany are going to reopen tomorrow, but are required to have various countermeasures in place - including "on phone appointment only" (reportedly all booked out for the next three weeks), "must include washing the hair beforehand", no newspapers or beverages, masks and gloves for hairdresser and customer, yadda yadda. I shall keep my beard trimmer close at hand ...
Post by: RanVor on May 04, 2020, 03:15:28 AM
As for update from my zone, today Portugal ends its "State of Emergency" and steps down to "State of Calamity" :DState of Calamity sounds way worse than State of Emergency. You sure it's not the other way around?
...
Ok, now that you stopped laughing, let me tell you that it means a lot, because some contention rules will be lifted, signaling a slow return to activity (just some kind of business, usually small) and, most important, that I'll finally get a haircut! :)
Post by: thegreyarea on May 04, 2020, 07:19:32 AM
... make a fortune as a producer of Tarzan movies?
No problem, our garden centers are open and should be able to provide the required plants. O:-)
If we have to employ a time-traveler from the future already, shouldn't we try to even out the effects on the timeline ... ?
Let me guess, public celebrations will happen once Portugal has worked its way back to "State of Mild Inconvenience"? :3
Thanks for the idea, JoB! I'll finally make some serious money! I'm imagining the next Tarzan movie featuring an epic battle between our jungle hero and penguins!
I'm glad to know about the plants, but you are still forbidden to die in the coming times (this disposition is automatically renewable until further notice) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_of_death
And yes, a state of mild inconvenience will be the returning to normal around here! :D
State of Calamity sounds way worse than State of Emergency. You sure it's not the other way around?
100% sure. Our State of Emergency was used for the first time in democratic regimen now, after 46 years. It must come from the President and voted in Parliament, and must be renewed each 15 days. It allows the Government to restrict constitutional rights like freedom of movement, or ordering companies to work even if their owners don't want to.
(We still have the State of Siege in our Law. That has an broader effect than the State of Emergency and is basically reserved (as implied by the name) for
The State of Calamity is far more common, and its used when a disaster hits an area. Two years ago it was used in many municipalities because of raging forest fires. It comes from the government directly, and does not need presidential or parliamentary support. However it does not allow restricting freedom of movement, for example, unless in very limited ways.
(But I do agree that a Calamity seems worse than an Emergency...)
Post by: Yastreb on May 04, 2020, 09:08:46 AM
Quote
I'm imagining the next Tarzan movie featuring an epic battle between our jungle hero and penguins!
There was almost a Monty Python sketch that had like that scene... Scott of the Sahara.
Booming out of the pages of history comes a story of three men and one woman whose courage shocked a generation.
From the same team that brought you ... 'Lawrence of Glareorgan' ... 'Bridge Over the River Trent' ... 'The Mad Woman of Biggleswade' ... and 'Krakatoa, East of Leamington' ... comes the story of three people and a woman united by fate who set out in search of the fabled Pole of the Sahara and found ... themselves.
See ... Lieutenant Scott's death struggle with a crazed desert lion.
See Ensign Oates' frank adult death struggle with the spine-chilling giant electric penguin...
See Miss Evans pursued by the man-eating roll-top writing desk.
Post by: Jitter on May 04, 2020, 01:46:10 PM
The stricter self-isolation guidelines for the elderly are still kept although there is growing concern on how much damage to their well-being is caused by mot being able to uphold social connections.
On personal level I have contracted something, I have mild respiratory symptoms and fatigue. I don’t feel seriously ill, so no reason to worry! But current health advisory is that any symptoms of the respiratory tract should be considered potential covid-19. Hopefully it’s the garden variety.
Post by: thegreyarea on May 04, 2020, 02:58:42 PM
On personal level I have contracted something, I have mild respiratory symptoms and fatigue. I don’t feel seriously ill, so no reason to worry! But current health advisory is that any symptoms of the respiratory tract should be considered potential covid-19. Hopefully it’s the garden variety.
Considering Finland numbers and that, as far as I know, you have been working from home since the beginning, I'd say that is quite unlikely that you got infected by that virus. Anyway, since you are feeling those symptoms, it's a good idea to be alert and take your temperature twice a day. If there's fever then I'd call a doctor (or your national support line - that's how it works in Portugal, at least) and they will probably arrange for you to be tested (probably in some drive-through, or maybe someone will go to your home). Otherwise just rest, eat well and enjoy the spring time :)
Post by: Jitter on May 04, 2020, 03:10:39 PM
Still, I agree, it’s likely to be something else. I have pollen allergies so this time of year I get something quite easily. Or alternatively there are much much more cases than we think, which also would mean the proportion of severe cases is much smaller.
Anyways I’m not worried. Should it get worse, I’ll be getting great treatment because we have managed to keep the numbers very low. The chemo I mentioned before was a few years ago so my immune system is back to normal.
Post by: Vulpes on May 05, 2020, 07:20:53 PM
Jitter, I hope your ailment clears up! I got a grinding headache today and panicked briefly, then realised it was probably from having a couple remote meetings - they give me eyestrain no matter how I set things up. This is going to be a rough week, I've got a bunch of meetings, and the weather forecast is dismal so I'll be less likely to stroll outside for a break.
Apparently people couldn't decide who to create "double bubbles" with, and the health minister was grumbling about social media posts on the weekend clearly showing more than two households having various events. Still going ahead with certain low-risk stuff like garden centres opening on the 11th, but watching for a spike in cases in a week or so.
Post by: Lenny on May 06, 2020, 02:16:00 PM
And they're keeping the right to tighten things up again if there's even the slightest hint of the spread getting worse again. Right now the only things opening are things that need human contact to actually do, like hairdressing, massages, driving lessons etc. If it's not necessary to do in person it's still a work from home situation, and it's going to stay that way for several months still (personally I'm all good with that, I've been enjoying it). Things like restaurants and cafes can have terraces open from 1 June, and otherwise can be open from 1 July - in all cases only for reservations and at a capacity that keeps 1.5m distance, and after going through a "are you/have you been sick etc. ..." checklist.
It's been going ... pretty okay now, though. Numbers of new cases and deaths have kept below 100 a day for the past few weeks and the number of new hospital cases have nosedived compared to two months ago. Am hoping it'll keep that way.
The spring weather, the lowering numbers, and the slow ease of restrictions has me feeling pretty hopeful about the next few months - if the border opens up at the current date set for it we might even be able to get married in June \o/ (no wedding, just the legal ceremony) And apart from a few nutcases that like to blame 5G for everything evil under the sun the country seems to be holding up all right.
Post by: Jitter on May 06, 2020, 03:19:13 PM
Many of the things you mentioned apply to Finland as well. The restrictions will be tightened again if the cases grow too much. Although I’m assuming they are expected and even hoped to grow some to progress the virus while ensuring intensive care capability. There’s no guarantee about a vaccine so we’ll have to learn to live with it.
From the bottom of my heart I wish you can get your partner to live with you and you can get the ceremony arranged! The wedding celebration is secondary, and in any case you can have a celebration later if you wish!
Post by: thorny on May 07, 2020, 11:32:20 AM
From the bottom of my heart I wish you can get your partner to live with you and you can get the ceremony arranged! The wedding celebration is secondary, and in any case you can have a celebration later if you wish!
Yup. The wedding is a wedding, and the marriage is a marriage, even if the party has to be later. Even if the party never happens at all; though that doesn't seem likely in your case.
Post by: Yastreb on May 08, 2020, 11:22:13 AM
Yesterday I heard something that I haven't heard in some weeks; the sound of jet engines overheard. I looked up to see an Airbus* inbound, presumably air freight.
* I'm using Airbus as a default, since most twin-jet airliners are much the same shape; something to do with optimum design probably.
Post by: JoB on May 09, 2020, 07:36:38 AM
Yesterday I heard something that I haven't heard in some weeks; the sound of jet engines overheard.Congrats ... my home (and, at least for today, office) is near the take-off/landing pathes of a military air base that's currently having quick-scramble fighter squadron duty for half of the nation ... :(
Post by: midwestmutt on May 09, 2020, 08:57:11 AM
Post by: Jitter on May 09, 2020, 09:50:05 AM
Post by: RanVor on May 09, 2020, 10:08:38 AM
The virus has struck my family. My sister's mother-in-law who was 98 and in a nursing home in Missouri has passed from it. I had not seen her in many years since that branch of the family lives a few hundred miles away but I still remembered her as a very nice lady. I hope the home she was in does not become a cluster. She was the 3rd resident to catch it.
:( I'm sorry to hear that, midwestmutt!
Post by: thegreyarea on May 09, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
The virus has struck my family. My sister's mother-in-law who was 98 and in a nursing home in Missouri has passed from it. I had not seen her in many years since that branch of the family lives a few hundred miles away but I still remembered her as a very nice lady. I hope the home she was in does not become a cluster. She was the 3rd resident to catch it.
Very sorry to hear that. :(
Post by: Mebediel on May 09, 2020, 05:25:44 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on May 09, 2020, 10:55:55 PM
Post by: Jitter on May 10, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Post by: lumilaulu on May 10, 2020, 08:41:34 AM
That said, I'm glad my grandmother isn't in a home yet, even though she's on a waiting list.
Post by: RanVor on May 22, 2020, 06:50:52 AM
Post by: Jitter on May 22, 2020, 07:52:44 AM
Now that things probably have calmed down at bit with the university management (as in online courses are rolling already and there’s probably some “business as usual” already) the dean’s office should be able to reschedule your meeting into a proper meeting online. Of course “should be” is not very useful, if they don’t. But here’s hoping! *Hugs*
Post by: thegreyarea on May 22, 2020, 09:45:52 AM
I’m sorry to hear that Ran! But the health care situation in Poland probably is such that it’s better to stay home still.
Now that things probably have calmed down at bit with the university management (as in online courses are rolling already and there’s probably some “business as usual” already) the dean’s office should be able to reschedule your meeting into a proper meeting online. Of course “should be” is not very useful, if they don’t. But here’s hoping! *Hugs*
Ran, I'll second Jitter in everything she said. I'll be rooting for you! Stay safe, and sane. :)
BTW it's good to have a smart friend that says all we wanted to say. Saves a lot of typing. Thanks, Jitter! :D
Post by: Mebediel on May 22, 2020, 04:40:19 PM
Meanwhile, here in my city, numbers haven't been going down...in fact, one of the dive bars that the undergrads like on campus actually (1) opened so that they could (2) sell a special drink to celebrate the graduating seniors in an event that (3) attracted a CROWD. ffs. And then people went and had apartment parties afterwards and some of the undergrads on campus set a couch on fire (??). I didn't even know that there were undergrads still on campus. I won't be surprised if our numbers spike in the next few days :/ And that's also why I don't think my university is going to meet in person again anytime soon.
Post by: Lenny on May 22, 2020, 05:30:27 PM
Am curious as to if we can keep the rate of infection low. It's stuck to around 200 new cases per day the last few weeks and drastically reduced number of hospitalisations, hopefully things opening some more won't affect that too much.
Post by: Róisín on May 23, 2020, 11:26:37 PM
And Ran, I hope the university can manage to sort out something that works for you. It all sounds so very hard! Good luck to you too.
Here in South Australia we are doing fairly okay, apart from most of my teaching work having disappeared, and not being able to do my storyteller gigs because the libraries are closed and none of the cultural events or the Mediæval Fair have been able to happen. The epidemic has disrupted several of my jobs, but given that social distancing seems to have worked well here we have some hope of things opening up a bit in the next few months, and one of the two markets I do is still going, because the Farmers Market is considered a needful resource. Being in a country area with little access to shops, our Market is the only local source of fresh food for many locals. I sell fruit, herbs and some vegetables as well as seeds and potted plants of edible things, and those are selling well because a lot of people are using the lockdown to work on their gardens. The other market is closed because while they do sell some food and plants, my stuff and things like honey, olive oil and takeaway food, most of their stalls are craft stuff, spinning and weaving supplies, handmade soaps, woodcarving tools, leatherwork and equipment to do it yourself and such like things.
At least the two big clusters near where I live seem to be under control. Those shouldn’t have happened, but we had two large groups of tourists in the Barossa who came in already infected and decided that the rules didn’t apply to them because Tourists, and stayed at a luxury resort to ‘self-isolate’ while still doing touristy things and infecting the locals, and neglecting to tell the owners of the resort that many of them were infected. So far as I know there has only been one death among the infections from those clusters, but that is one too many. And one of them, who decided to go home, persuaded someone to drive him to the airport and arranged a flight, may have started the airport cluster.
But most people have been far more civilised and considerate, which is likely why SA has now had no new cases for 16 days. Let us hope the trend continues now that some things are being slowly and cautiously reopened.
I am most concerned about the possibility of my husband getting infected, since he is quite frail and usually has several necessary medical appointments each week. I know a few people who have picked up Covid19 while at hospitals for other things.
But so far we survive. I am glad to be a sensible bushie who even in ordinary times has a bit of a stockpile of food, fuel and other necessities of life. We live in a rural area subject to bushfires, storms, floods and lengthy power outages, so being prepared is always a good idea.
Post by: phocena on May 30, 2020, 02:39:29 AM
Since I work in the data curation branch of the library, we've been trying to disseminate useful CoVID resources for the public. For those interested, here's a handy map with data from John Hopkins University. It shows the number of cases and casualties for every country, with graphs and further breakdowns in the sidebars.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
(https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)
[edit] Also the John Hopkins Coronavirus research center has a lot of information, including the map
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu)
Post by: Grade E cat on May 30, 2020, 03:48:08 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on May 30, 2020, 07:32:24 PM
Spoiler: show
Post by: Mirasol on May 31, 2020, 05:55:46 AM
Our schools have actually opened up about three weeks ago, but the conditions on how vary a lot between different areas.
Where I live that means only the graduating classes and the ones who will graduate next year have their main subjects plus german and math basic courses in School, with less lessons than usual. The rest of the subjects is still online, and the lower classes still completely have class online. Students and teachers that are a part of or live with people that are part of the risk groups are not allowed to come to school, but it also doesn´t get controlled.
Non-medical face masks in the hallways aren´t mandatory, but advised, which translates to: almost nobody is wearing them (but it´s been increasing over the past few days).
Classes with more than 14 People get separated into two groups to maintain proper social distancing in the classrooms, These two groups still have class at the same time, and the teacher has to switch rooms constantly. This system works not that well. I think our school has exactly two classrooms that would be big enough to hold 30 people with a 2m distance between them, so the teachers are pretty much fighting over them (and my school has actually 1500 or so students, and now not even enough space for 200 with distance…)
What rules we have exactly, nobody knows, because most teachers only enforce half of them, and different halfs at that. Usually they don´t even know about the rest themselves.
To avoid standing too close, the classrooms are supposed to be always open, and the breaks are supposed to be spent inside of them. This is another rule only half of the teachers seem to know about. Also it contradicts my schools rule that no student is allowed in the science classrooms and the ones with the expensive technology unsupervised by a teacher, and coincidentally only those rooms are big enough for the entire social-distancing Thing in the first place. So the doors are closed and the students clogg up the tiny hallways with no openable windows instead.
Don´t get me wrong, I´m really happy that I get to leave the house again, plus I was really bad at handling the entire online-class-thing, but let´s just say, the current situation is… not ideal.
But now, two weeks of holiday started, and afterwards it´s planned that everyone gets to go back to school. The younger classes take turns on which week and day they get to go, the two oldest classes still have school every day, now again with all the subjects, but still less lessons. Non-medical face masks on the hallways will now be mandatory, which I think is a very good thing.
On another note, churches are allowed to hold services in person again (with distance, of course), and now we already had (I think) two cases of a large group of people getting infected in big churches, most likely because of the entire community singing which spread the virus all over (windows in churches are usually not openable). I´m not sure whether there is an official rule that forbids singing in church for the entire community, but maybe there should be so things don´t get worse again. A lot of communities solved the problem by only having one or two "professionals" sing the songs, but not all of them. And now that it´s "Pfingsten" ("Whitsun" says my online translator), most likely even more people will go to church. I hope they find a good solution for the singing so stuff like this doesn´t happen again.
Anyways, stay safe everyone, and sorry for my rambling :)
Post by: Róisín on May 31, 2020, 08:29:42 AM
I hope your schools manage to start up again without problems.
Post by: wavewright62 on June 01, 2020, 12:06:59 AM
This is cause to celebrate, but the fallout will continue for an unforeseeable future. The company I work for has done their projections, and is letting two people go and asking remaining staff to take a 10% pay cut. The Directors are taking a 20% cut themselves.
Post by: thegreyarea on June 01, 2020, 12:17:23 PM
New Zealand has 10 consecutive days with no new cases, and only 1 active case still extant.
This is cause to celebrate, but the fallout will continue for an unforeseeable future. The company I work for has done their projections, and is letting two people go and asking remaining staff to take a 10% pay cut. The Directors are taking a 20% cut themselves.
That's the most worrisome problem in many areas. In Portugal we still have a long way to go, but the North region were I live had 0 cases today :) (but 300 in the Lisbon area... :( )
The deep cut in tourism (just to mention the most evident one) causes a domino effect that will last for some time... All we can do, anyway, is remain cautious and keep going the best we can.
Post by: Keeper on June 03, 2020, 02:59:46 PM
Post by: Mebediel on June 18, 2020, 05:11:42 PM
Post by: Yastreb on June 25, 2020, 09:17:33 PM
So of course it's time for me to get a cold that is not serious, but persistent, and family and friends are concerned that it might be early stages... so off to my GP tomorrow (I'm getting a scheduled flu booster shot anyway), just to be sure.
Someone I know posted this on social media a few days back: So the shire I work in has the fastest growing rate of Covid-19 infections, 19 in the last 24 hours. Some of these people admit to going to work even though they knew they were sick. They admit to attending large family gatherings even though they were sick. Thanks folks, glad to see you care about everyone else in the community!
I commented: Do those people believe that you don't get sick until the Pest Maiden waves her red scarf in your window?
Post by: midwestmutt on June 26, 2020, 09:41:01 AM
Post by: Vulpes on June 26, 2020, 10:20:25 AM
Post by: Mirasol on June 26, 2020, 11:13:32 AM
We had a spike in Nordrhein-Westfalia too, more than 1400 of 6600 workers in a meat processing factory got infected due to low hygiene standarts and ignoring of social distancing rules. Now while everywhere else things are opening again, the local governments locked down the entire area in panic and sent everyone into quarantine. Still some idiots tried to "escape" the quarantine or refused to get tested for Covid-19. Now everyone is wondering: "How did this happen?"
Society wanted low meat prices, that´s how. A problem that has been known for ages. At least it seems as if the politicians are trying to do something about that now.
(I luckily don´t live in Nordrhein-Westfalia by the way, so don´t worry.)
Stay safe and butter good!
Post by: wavewright62 on June 26, 2020, 06:37:27 PM
I'm fairly comfortable with those numbers; although I don't know what the percentage is among returnees (I understand the flights weren't full, but don't have numbers of actual passengers & crew.)
There has been some outcry about quarantine, ie housing persons from different flights in the same hotel, questions surrounding availability of quarantine hotels to meet the demand for returnees, releasing some persons on compassionate grounds without a final test, the necessity of not requiring a full 14-day stand-down quarantine regimen for flight crews, etc. So far there is no evidence of community transmission.
Post by: Yastreb on June 27, 2020, 07:58:48 AM
Oh no Yastreb, please get well soon!
Thank you! I got tested today, and it wasn't pleasant to have a swab shoved deep into the nostrils while trying to recall the words of the Philosopher's Song (OK, that last bit didn't hurt, but you try to make light of things...) Results are due in 1-3 days.
Post by: Róisín on June 27, 2020, 10:52:42 AM
Post by: JoB on June 27, 2020, 11:16:05 AM
(I luckily don´t live in Nordrhein-Westfalia by the way, so don´t worry.)(Well, I do, but luckily the prohibitions to travel elsewhere are assigned by county, not by state.)
Post by: Mirasol on June 27, 2020, 01:30:16 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on June 27, 2020, 05:55:38 PM
Post by: thorny on June 28, 2020, 12:42:41 PM
The test is not nice - the second one I had was taken while I already had inflamed sinuses and a sore throat, so it was much worse than the first. (Fortunately, both were negative.) Still, better than a blood test or stool sample!
From the sound of it, I would much rather have either a blood test or stool sample. Or both.
Post by: Vulpes on June 28, 2020, 01:07:42 PM
From the sound of it, I would much rather have either a blood test or stool sample. Or both.
I'm with thorny on this.
Post by: Yastreb on June 30, 2020, 02:28:51 AM
Much relieved. But I won't be relaxing my precautions.
Thanx for your kind words and regards.
Post by: Róisín on June 30, 2020, 05:33:36 AM
Post by: Jitter on June 30, 2020, 05:36:09 AM
I haven’t taken the test but what I’ve heard it’s horrible! Researchers in Finland are now testing a method of detecting it from exhaled air - I very much hope it will work!
Post by: Róisín on June 30, 2020, 05:39:49 AM
Post by: Yastreb on June 30, 2020, 08:14:46 AM
I looked at todays' figures from the Coronavirus update Worldometer site. COVID-19 Cases 10,435,321, deaths 508,844. Imagine if that had been the toll from a worldwide terror campaign, in wounded and dead. Imagine the speeches, the mobilisation, the calls for action!
Post by: Jitter on June 30, 2020, 09:50:14 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on June 30, 2020, 09:58:21 PM
Post by: Lenny on July 01, 2020, 03:19:02 AM
The Netherlands, as usual, is following what the EU decides and letting all of them in - Australia's on the list, too, as well as Canada, New Zealand, Algeria, Georgia, Japan, Montenegro, Morocco, Rwanda, Serbia, South Korea, Thailand, Tunisia and Uruguay.
The metric is 16 infections per 100 000 people or lower, and the list changes every two weeks or as needed.
It's great that they're opening up again to safe areas, I'm certain there are more people in the same situation as me - lots of those countries have passports that are seen as long-stay visas (90 days), and would not have been able to apply for one in order to round off the application for a long-term visa like ours. In fact, the only countries/city-states that now still have that problem are Vatican City, Monaco, and the US.
...I'm hoping that it won't negatively affect the priority of the immigration department to find a solution for those countries that still can't apply for a long-stay visa. Because uh, it's going to be a long time before the US reaches that metric >.> It's currently sitting at a GLORIOUS 787.5 infections per 100 000 people, and growing. *sighs* My SO's state has less than a third of the population of the Netherlands and a few days ago passed the highest number of daily infections NL had back in April.
Post by: Yastreb on July 01, 2020, 06:53:15 AM
Melbourne is not doing well, from what I hear - fortunately you both (and Keep Looking & Purple Wyrm et al) are not in that vicinity.
Actually, I am in Melbourne. Do'kha. (Róisín knows what that last word means.)
Post by: Róisín on July 01, 2020, 07:20:32 AM
Purple Wyrm, Keep Looking, YeethawGang and a few others are in Western Australia, which is safer, and Dai is some way South of where I am, well out from the city. Good luck all, and I hope that Lenny and her SO stay safe and can eventually be permanently together!
Post by: Jitter on July 01, 2020, 07:49:05 AM
Currently things are good, but of course there is quite high probability of a second wave. Sweden certainly is trying to give us one... Finnish health experts seem to be hopeful about that if or when it comes, we can contain it with little damage again, but of course only time will tell.
My family is a ok, we have both been able to work remotely quite and both our companies are doing well. So currently no financial trouble, although obviously later this year may prove different with the expected deep depression.
Post by: Keep Looking on July 01, 2020, 07:59:45 AM
Of course, the virus has had significant impacts on many of our industries that rely on people coming to keep them running (tourism, cafes/resteraunts, hospitality and all that), but I think that's a fairly universal experience at this point.
Post by: JoB on July 01, 2020, 08:53:42 AM
Researchers in Finland are now testing a method of detecting it from exhaled air - I very much hope it will work!Cool, maybe we can have a combo SARS-CoV-2+H.pylori (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea_breath_test) test/screening for the price of one (pandemic) then ... :3
Post by: wavewright62 on July 01, 2020, 06:40:17 PM
Actually, I am in Melbourne. Do'kha. (Róisín knows what that last word means.)
Crap on a stick, my apologies & condolences. I don't understand the word, but if I pronounce it as though it was Klingon, I think I have the gist. :P
Post by: Róisín on July 01, 2020, 07:07:38 PM
Post by: phocena on July 01, 2020, 10:47:44 PM
Well, cases were starting to level off a little, but now they're spiking again. Luckily my state isn't the one experiencing the main outbreaks, but if it gets really bad it will jeopardize my college's plans to have class on campus next year. I do hope everyone in those hotspots is doing ok. My friend chose to go back to India for the summer, and just managed to get through the whole 14 day quarantine process, so I'm glad I have people to talk to, even if they're in separate time zones.
Post by: Yastreb on July 02, 2020, 12:02:49 AM
Yeah, it’s used as a swear in this context.
I invented the word Do'kha for my fantasy saga. The main character, who comes from a land much like old Russia, uses it a lot. In his own words... "Do’kha is something you would hear often in Tunguska. It doesn’t translate easily. - So be it - is close, but it doesn’t convey the sense of acceptance of fate, good or bad, though rarely is it heard in times of joy."
I see it as something as multi-use, much as "oy" has so many meanings in Yiddish (from the expression of mild annoyance all the way through to existential despair).
Post by: thorny on July 02, 2020, 10:51:10 AM
I invented the word Do'kha for my fantasy saga.
Ah. That explains why all the references Google found were to tobacco.
(They also didn't have the apostrophe; I kept trying to make Google include that, with no luck.)
Post by: wavewright62 on July 02, 2020, 06:06:26 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/NO1ohzQ.jpg?1)
Post by: Yastreb on July 07, 2020, 03:31:03 AM
To shop for food and essential goods and services
For care or compassionate reasons
Exercise outdoors
For work or study that can’t be done from home.
Police can issue on the spot fines of $1,652 for individuals and $9,913 for businesses for non-compliance.
SUPPLEMENTAL: as of 0001 AEST of 9 July, all of Melbourne is covered by Stage III lockdowns, that is, the restrictions listed above.
Post by: Vulpes on July 07, 2020, 07:49:24 PM
Here in Newfoundland, things are opening up and folks can travel among the 4 Atlantic provinces without quarantine. Of course just as this took effect, PEI and NS had outbreaks, so I expect a surge in cases here in a couple of weeks. Almost nobody wears a mask, so it should spread like wildfire when it gets here. :-\
Post by: Yastreb on July 10, 2020, 09:20:43 AM
Post by: Róisín on July 10, 2020, 09:40:45 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on July 11, 2020, 02:56:09 AM
Post by: thorny on July 12, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
If it can reassure you, I got a very bad cough in early Febuary (so bad it kept me up at night and I still had phlegm a couple months into lockdown), but my covid antibody test still came out negative.
Not necessarily reassuring, but the tests do produce some false negatives. So despite the result it's possible that you did have it.
Here's hoping that whatever anybody's got it goes away quickly and without complications.
Post by: Jitter on July 12, 2020, 10:47:39 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on July 12, 2020, 02:33:03 PM
Not necessarily reassuring, but the tests do produce some false negatives. So despite the result it's possible that you did have it.
Here's hoping that whatever anybody's got it goes away quickly and without complications.
I got better, and my mid-sixties mother who definitely got whatever it was from me (and whose complete recovery happened faster) came out negative also.
Post by: wavewright62 on July 12, 2020, 05:12:52 PM
Post by: JoB on July 13, 2020, 07:58:14 AM
I got my pandemic hair cut yesterday! It was about time too, when the hairdresser asked me what I wanted done I said “Miracles” :reynir: :emil:
Spoiler: show
Post by: Jitter on July 13, 2020, 09:11:14 AM
We came to the conclusion to cut very short and use a color close to my natural (what's left of it) so that if we get the restrictions back again, it can wait longer without reverting to miracles-needing state.
Finland is doing very good now, but with the global situation, we'll probably be looking at a second wave, or several. Recent news about how getting it only gives you short-lived immunity makes me wonder whether a vaccine is possible at all? Does anybody know if it's possible to make a vaccine that gives you a much better immunity than actually having the disease?
Post by: Mirasol on July 13, 2020, 10:20:26 AM
(And on a more hopeful note, may all of your hairdressers make the miracles you hope for happen!)
Does anybody know if it's possible to make a vaccine that gives you a much better immunity than actually having the disease?
Hm. I remember back when I was in primary school, my entire family had scarlet fever several times during the same winter since you only get short-lived immunity from it, and we kept reinfecting each other. That was kind of a problem since each time me and my siblings had it we had to stay home from school/kindergarten for two weeks, and effectively stayed at home for over a month in that year. So to make that cycle stop we all had to take a medication that kept up the immunity long enough to not get it again as long as someone in our family still had it. That did work, so I guess it is possible to find a vaccine that makes immunity longer. Hopefully it is.
Then again, in the next winter, the entire thing happened all over again. It also ended with us having to take the lengthening-of-immunity-medication. But that was it, after that year we never got it again.
Post by: JoB on July 13, 2020, 12:00:37 PM
Does anybody know if it's possible to make a vaccine that gives you a much better immunity than actually having the disease?Giving a shot with vaccine simulates the presence of the germ to our immune system. Repeating the shots for longer than the actual disease takes to be cured simulates a disease that miraculously became much harder to get rid of. Our immune system is supposed to react to that in such a way that the final result, the immune reaction upon re-exposition, gets more pronounced. Which means that it should also take longer to be "forgotten" again.
How much that holds for SARS-CoV-2 and what length of an immunity period can be reached that way for this particular virus is still completely up in the air, I'd guess.
I would say that the current observations very likely are the coup de grâce for the concept of "immunity passports (https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19)" for the convalesced, though.
Post by: Yastreb on July 16, 2020, 02:26:07 AM
Post by: Jitter on July 16, 2020, 03:33:02 AM
Post by: Róisín on July 16, 2020, 03:40:20 AM
Post by: Mebediel on July 17, 2020, 08:23:51 PM
Post by: Yastreb on July 19, 2020, 05:15:45 AM
Post by: ftmshepard on July 20, 2020, 01:15:31 AM
On the other hand, the states I spend the most time in are taking it very seriously, but that doesn't help everyone else. This might sound strange, but I've been turning to a lot of stories about plague as a way of dealing with the uh. Plague.
Post by: Róisín on July 20, 2020, 01:46:44 AM
Shep, it is good that you and your family test clear. I hope things stay that way! And yeah, stories about plagues are a good way to process these times, you feel less alone. Have you read ‘La Peste’, (‘The Plague’) by Albert Camus? Good absurdist tale of a plague in Oran. Best of luck with surviving your own plague - I hope the CDC gets given back a bit of control over the process.
Post by: Yastreb on July 20, 2020, 04:17:13 AM
Post by: Róisín on July 20, 2020, 07:51:46 AM
Post by: Mirasol on July 20, 2020, 08:51:44 AM
Shep, me and my family too resorted to lots of pandemic fiction, especially in the beginning of corona-times. From what I hear, that seems to be a pretty common coping mechanism. We´ve especially been watching a lot of movies, like "twelve monkies" or "contagion" (though that last one I found more stressing to watch under our current situation than that it helped...).
An interesting (or scary, depending on how you see it) coincidence I found was that apparently someone in the eighties wrote a book about a fictional pandemic that would happen in 2020 and start in Wuhan. I didn´t read that book, nor do I remember what it was called, but yeah...
Post by: ftmshepard on July 20, 2020, 01:20:43 PM
Mirasol
Oh wow. I've heard about Contagion. What's 12 monkeys about?
To everyone: i'm glad people have access to masks.
Post by: Jitter on July 20, 2020, 02:08:07 PM
Post by: Mirasol on July 20, 2020, 02:24:42 PM
It´s set about 40 years after a pandemic forced humanity to live underground because the entire air was filled with the virus. Nobody was able to find a cure up to this point, the only thing they know is that the virus was unleashed by a terrorist organization called "twelve monkeys". In trying to instead prevent the outbreak happening in the first place, they send criminals back in time to research and find the cause. but the time-machine isn´t the most... precise.
It focusses less on the virus and more on the action around it, but it was a fun movie I think, even though not exactly logical. I enjoyed watching it.
Post by: ftmshepard on July 20, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
Post by: lumilaulu on July 20, 2020, 03:14:33 PM
To everyone: i'm glad people have access to masks.Heh. I was finally able to start my new job this month, after a three-month delay due to the lockdown. Got a welcome bag on my first day. Contents: a folder with information about my new place of work, a folder with information about the COVID-19 prevention measures they've put in place, a pencil with the organisation's logo to push lift buttons with, a plastic bag to open door handles with, a small flask with disinfectant hand gel, five reusable cloth masks, a plastic box for clean masks, and one for used masks.
I must admit I don't use the pencil or the bag, I prefer to use my elbow to open doors and simply wash my hands regularly.
Post by: Vulpes on July 20, 2020, 08:24:33 PM
<snip> a pencil with the organisation's logo to push lift buttons with, <snip>
I laughed aloud at this and startled the cat. Some of the measures being taken are... peculiar.
Post by: lumilaulu on July 20, 2020, 08:40:26 PM
Post by: Vulpes on July 20, 2020, 09:08:13 PM
Yes. But then they did have to close for three months and even now, a month after reopening, only a fraction of the normal amount of visitors is allowed inside, with very strict rules, and most employees are still working from home several days a week. The masks are very useful for my commute (I don't come into contact with the public, and can mostly keep my distance from my colleagues, so I don't have to wear them at work most of the time), and pencils are always useful.
I was unclear, I meant measures in general. Other than the pencil and plastic bag, which are pretty funny, your work seems to be taking excellent care of you! But I keep encountering baffling procedures, like advice I recently heard from the provincial Health Minister. Someone wanted to know when they could resume their weekly bridge games. Under the current rules, you can have contact with 6 people outside your "bubble", so the minister figured playing bridge regularly with 3 others should be fine... but suggested buying a new pack of cards each week. Given what we know about the virus, this makes no sense - after a week the cards should have no viable virus left.
Post by: lumilaulu on July 20, 2020, 09:26:36 PM
so the minister figured playing bridge regularly with 3 others should be fine... but suggested buying a new pack of cards each week.Hmmm. Are you sure said minister doesn't have any stakes in a card-making company? :P
But yeah, you're of course right. I just wish people would take the sensible measures seriously. Infections have been rising here for two weeks now, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the recent relaxations get reversed again.
Post by: ftmshepard on July 20, 2020, 09:42:58 PM
Hmmm. Are you sure said minister doesn't have any stakes in a card-making company? :P
But yeah, you're of course right. I just wish people would take the sensible measures seriously. Infections have been rising here for two weeks now, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the recent relaxations get reversed again.
*shakes fist at entire US*
I know multiple people who refuse to wear masks. Thankfully, they don't go out much, but it's incredibly frustrating.
Post by: Yastreb on July 20, 2020, 11:10:17 PM
Shep, "Twelve Monkeys" is a rather old movie (nineties I think, but not sure) I stumbled across when researching for a school presentation on post-apocalyptic fiction a year ago (the same presentation that made me find SSSS in fact). I think it got a remake recently, but I´ve only seen the original, back when the entire lockdown-thing started.
It was remade as a TV series. I saw Season 1 and a bit of Season 2, and while it started off as interesting and involving, it lost me (and the friend I watched it with) because of the bewildering complexity of the timeline/s that ensued from the plot.
Post by: lumilaulu on July 21, 2020, 09:01:16 AM
*shakes fist at entire US*Most people here didn't wear one either when wearing a mask was merely recommended, but it turned out many people were actually in favour of making mask-wearing obligatory (as well as the virologists and epidemiologists who advise the government, obviously), so they made it obligatory in basically all enclosed public spaces (public transport, shops, places of worship, libraries, ...). And, importantly, they installed fines of €250 for a first offence, and up to €4000 or a week to a few months in jail for a second offence. You still see people not wearing a mask, and a lot of people wearing theirs incorrectly, but the vast majority does, whether it's because they see the need or because they simply don't want to risk a fine.
I know multiple people who refuse to wear masks. Thankfully, they don't go out much, but it's incredibly frustrating.
Post by: Vulpes on July 21, 2020, 07:47:45 PM
Hmmm. Are you sure said minister doesn't have any stakes in a card-making company? :P
But yeah, you're of course right. I just wish people would take the sensible measures seriously. Infections have been rising here for two weeks now, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the recent relaxations get reversed again.
:haw: More likely his cousin runs a shop that sells cards, but otherwise, spot on!
No new cases here in some time, and fairly restricted travel, so fingers crossed there will only be sporadic cases and we won't have to go back to more restrictions. I'm enjoying scooping my own stuff at the bulk food place again, even if their hand sanitizer dispenser splurts out about twice what you need.
Post by: Yastreb on August 02, 2020, 03:41:14 AM
There will be a curfew from 2000 to 0500 with exemptions for work, care-giving, medical and compassionate reasons. This exceeds all wartime restrictions.
Exercise is restricted to a maximum of one hour daily within 5km of home, with one other person.
Shopping is to be done by only one person per household per day within 5km or the closest supermarket, with exemption for care-giving and assisting the elderly.
Childcare will be closed, with few exemptions for "vulnerable children and children of permitted workers."
Restaurants and cafes are allowed takeaway and home delivery subject to conditions. Bottle shops will remain open.
Weddings are banned from Thursday.
These restrictions will be in effect for the next six weeks.
Post by: Róisín on August 02, 2020, 05:56:24 AM
Post by: Jitter on August 02, 2020, 06:19:36 AM
Róisín, same to you. I’m glad it’s not quite as bad in the Adelaide area, I am hoping it will stay that way too. “Bureaucrap” is a great word!
Stay safe, all!
Post by: Mirasol on August 02, 2020, 07:00:08 AM
And of course to you too, Róisín! Even if the situation isn´t as bad where you live. May that entire thing soon be under control again.
Post by: Róisín on August 02, 2020, 07:39:55 AM
Post by: Mebediel on August 03, 2020, 09:21:15 PM
Post by: PaperArtillery on August 05, 2020, 01:48:23 AM
The county I live in has had ~4000 confirmed cases and 75 deaths, a few of which are at a juvenile jail pretty much right across the street from me. The county of my hometown has only seen 19 deaths, last I checked, and also far fewer infections (but is basically all farmland and mountains).
America. ::)
EDIT: The number of people who are vehemently against masks continues to be depressing. Such people even get verbally violent and sometimes physically threaten us at work if we politely suggest they pick a disposable one off the table when coming in. Ugh.
Post by: Grade E cat on August 05, 2020, 03:03:30 AM
Post by: JoB on August 05, 2020, 07:36:28 AM
Unfortunately, in case anyone thinks it's a US-only thing, the number of anti-mask people has grown enough in France that media are talking about itAccording to our local media, the anti-mask demonstrations in Berlin have been noted internationally, so I'll spare you the details.
(As someone who does privacy protection, among other things, for a living, and has eyed the German normal-times prohibition of wearing masks on demonstrations as a murky case of denying citizens a right to anonymity, words fail me to express my position on people protesting an obligation to wear them. "Maulkorb", my posterior. As if those masks were gags to physically silence you. Or prevent you having your name printed on your shirt in five-inch-high letters if you insist on nonanonymity.)
In other news, I made the trip back from my vacation in a long distance bus lately ... total travel time ~23h. :-\ Official requirement by The Green Bus Guys: Keep a mask on at all times, and the belt as well.
Har har. >:( I don't think that anyone besides myself ever put the belt on (and even I needed a couple dozen kilometers to figure out how to do that in the first place). When they switched drivers in Italy, the second new driver ambled all along the aisle, pointing a finger at everyone not wearing a mask and machine-gunning out "mascherino!, mascherino!, mascherino!, ...". Once. You have three guesses how persistently masks happened to actually be worn.
Spoiler: some nation bashing • show
Post by: Grade E cat on August 05, 2020, 08:33:33 AM
(As someone who does privacy protection, among other things, for a living, and has eyed the German normal-times prohibition of wearing masks on demonstrations as a murky case of denying citizens a right to anonymity, words fail me to express my position on people protesting an obligation to wear them. "Maulkorb", my posterior. As if those masks were gags to physically silence you. Or prevent you having your name printed on your shirt in five-inch-high letters if you insist on nonanonymity.)
Between a previous President who passed a law that, according to common knowledge, was essentially meant to keep Muslim women from wearing burkas and niqabs in public and a law meant to give the police an excuse to arrest potential violent protesters/looters (and a some peaceful ones who just don't want to be gassed) passed during the "gilet jaunes" demonstrations, we have a quite interesting situation when it comes to face concealment here, as well.
Post by: Jitter on August 05, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Now there is talk of giving “strict recommendation” to wear masks in public transport and public indoor places. It’s not legally possible to give a binding order, but at least the previous “strict recommendations” were followed pretty well.
This isn’t a huge problem for me as both me and hubby can continue to work from home, but clearly people are getting tired of ir ll even here in Finland, where we have gotten off pretty easy so far.
Post by: Vulpes on August 06, 2020, 10:50:41 AM
Post by: Yastreb on August 08, 2020, 04:21:01 AM
I ventured forth to exercise and get some supplies, and chanced to meet someone I knew from a local restaurant - a regular customer that I'd chat amicably with when we happened to be there at the same time. I commented that his mask wasn't quite properly secured, and he replied that he found it stifling, before saying that Alan Jones1 had called the whole COVID-19 matter alarmism, went on to tell me that the we shouldn't be meekly falling into line with the losses to our lives and freedoms, and so on and so on, and was starting on the World Health Organisation's One World Government plans, when I quietly said that I didn't wish to discuss it, and politely disengaged.
Fortunately, on the way back I encountered a neighbour I rarely get to see, and we talked for a while, and I felt better for that.
1. Not Alex Jones; Alan Jones is a Sydney-based reactionary shock-jock who has said may contemptible things, but at least he's not a complete raving looney.
Post by: RanVor on August 08, 2020, 07:38:23 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 08, 2020, 10:44:26 PM
We're meant to be signing in everywhere on the government's contact tracing app, and getting tested at any sign of symptoms, but it's not happening. While we as a country were really effective in keeping to lockdown in March-May, I doubt we'd cooperate nearly so well in a second wave.
Post by: lumilaulu on August 09, 2020, 07:08:23 AM
I doubt we'd cooperate nearly so well in a second wave.That seems to be a recurring theme. And we are currently in a second wave. Not a second lockdown (although one province is in a lockdown-light, sort of), but some of the restrictions that had been lifted have been put into place again.
And of course it doesn't help that we're in the middle of one of the worst heatwaves on record. Yesterday there was a massive fight at the beach, with people refusing to wear masks and keep their distance.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 12, 2020, 03:31:32 AM
Notice the past tense.
Four cases of unknown-origin community transmission in a family in Auckland, more cases very likely, and BOOM! Auckland is back in Level 3 lockdown and the rest of the country in Level 2. Level 3 means stay home except for access to essential services, although children of workers employed in essential services can go to school (most pupils stay home), and you can get takeaways and deliveries under certain conditions. Level 2 allows small local gatherings with physical distancing and sanitation protocols in place.
Supposedly this is just for three days, while they attempt to trace the source of the disease in the first person in the family to get it. They are also doing contact tracing for the workplaces and other places this family has been.
Nobody believes we're coming out of lockdown in just 3 days.
Post by: Jitter on August 12, 2020, 04:59:34 AM
Post by: Mebediel on August 12, 2020, 01:57:53 PM
Meanwhile my university is opening campus to the undergrads with the specification that anyone who comes to campus has to get tested every two weeks and that anyone else who comes to campus (ex. to pick up books from the library) has to have negative test results dating to four days prior to coming to campus. I don't see how the university admin expects this to be a better option than keeping campus closed entirely...but classes start in two weeks, so we'll see how things turn out. I'm not optimistic though.
Post by: Mirasol on August 12, 2020, 02:40:27 PM
In Germany schools are now starting as "normal" again in the first states, despite cases being over 500 a day again (we were down to under 200 before I think, but nooo, this is no second wave at all...). "Normal" meaning with all the students. Who is supposed to wear masks how and when varies greatly in every state, sometimes even every school.
Cases are going up that fast because people are returning from vacation in risk areas. But somehow nobody saw this coming. Now tourists are supposed to be tested upon returning, but that is only really actionable in air ports, so all those people who go by car can just drive past the testing stations (that were also only put in place after quite a few people had already brought home the virus).
My state has only started summer holidays (six weeks) about two weeks ago, so we don´t have many cases yet. My school´s current plan is to open for all students with mandatory face masks outside of the classrooms and a signed paper that says you are not sick (weren´t in risk-places or in contact with sick people etc., but no test is required and only signed by your parents), but many teachers don´t have a lot of hope that this will go well for more then a few weeks. Most of them expect a second school closing.
I´m getting less optimistic the more I hear from the states that opened again, at least one of the schools there had to close down already because of cases.
Post by: lumilaulu on August 12, 2020, 03:32:09 PM
Cases are going up that fast because people are returning from vacation in risk areas. But somehow nobody saw this coming.Yeah. Tourists bringing it back with them is exactly how the first clusters started in Belgium, and I'm sure in many other places as well.
I wish my own country, and the surrounding countries (being a remote island nation is an advantage for once!), would take this as seriously and act as decisively as New Zealand.
Post by: Jitter on August 12, 2020, 03:46:24 PM
We are currently at around 20 cases a day, but the weekly and forthnightly numbers have doubled so the curve is starting to become unflattened again. There is still some “this could be the beginning of the second wave” from the authorities but come on, of course it’s the second wave! Here’s hoping we manage to keep it restricted as well as we did in the spring, but I’m not so sure about that.
* apparently there is no legal way to make such a thing mandatory
Post by: wavewright62 on August 12, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
Post by: Mirasol on August 13, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
* apparently there is no legal way to make such a thing mandatory
They told us that too in the beginning, but apparently they found a way now.
Post by: Yastreb on August 13, 2020, 09:36:36 AM
* apparently there is no legal way to make such a thing mandatory
The Victorian State Government thinks otherwise. From the vic.gov.au website Coronavirus (COVID-19) restrictions Victoria (emphasis added):
Quote
From 11:59pm on Sunday 2 August, face coverings will also be mandatory for all of Victoria.
The same lawful exemptions that currently apply in metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire, will apply across Victoria. These include if you have a medical condition or other condition that impairs your ability to wear a face covering, doing strenuous exercise or if you are unable to do your job while wearing a face covering.
Wearing a face covering protects you and your community by providing an additional physical barrier to coronavirus (COVID-19).
People who do not wear face coverings and do not have a lawful excuse can be fined $200.
Post by: Jitter on August 13, 2020, 11:42:16 AM
Post by: JoB on August 13, 2020, 11:46:49 AM
They told us that too in the beginning, but apparently they found a way now.The German IfSG (https://dejure.org/gesetze/IfSG/16.html) does not provide strict "epidemics control trumps civil liberty X, but not civil right Y" guidelines (in spite of naming the rights to property and of the inviolability of the home as possibly getting trumped). The general understanding is that once restrictions are demonstrated to be "necessary, effective, and without alternative", they are legal to be imposed, for that moment - and those properties can, of course, be doubted, and challenged in court.
(General jurisprudence practice around constitutional rights adds a requirement that all restrictions thereof additionally need to be effective only until a specific date, forcing the legislator to explicitly pass a renewal if conditions keep being met beyond that date. I suspect that Baden-Württembergs back-then Verordnung about the first closure of borders, being issued by the Gesundheitsamt on the basis of the state government having passed on the authority to it and literally saying that restrictions shall remain in effect as long as that authorization persists, would have been overturned if someone had challenged it.)
Post by: Mirasol on August 13, 2020, 07:11:24 PM
I obviously meant no legal way to make it mandatory in Finland. Of course laws can be changed, but that's a tenuous process and since Finns tend to follow recommendations pretty well it's probably what we'll be getting.
I know, I´m sorry, I probably phrased it a little ambiguous. I of course also ment that some people told us that there is no legal way in Germany either. But as JoB explained, there is. Huh, I did not know that. Thank you for explaining! :)
Post by: Suominoita on August 14, 2020, 04:37:56 AM
The German IfSG (https://dejure.org/gesetze/IfSG/16.html) does not provide strict "epidemics control trumps civil liberty X, but not civil right Y" guidelines (in spite of naming the rights to property and of the inviolability of the home as possibly getting trumped). The general understanding is that once restrictions are demonstrated to be "necessary, effective, and without alternative", they are legal to be imposed, for that moment - and those properties can, of course, be doubted, and challenged in court.About the same in Finland too. The "necessary" part in particular as in Finnish (välttämätön) interpretation that includes effective (why do something that doesn't work?) and no better alternative (well if there was, why don't we do that?). Such as separating one part of the country from the rest. The distinction between things that absolutely MUST be done due to being necessary and things that SHOULD be done was made clear there. Once it no longer was a MUST, that restriction was lifted.
As for the masks... first it wasn't a thing simply because there wasn't enough masks -- and now, well, the social distancing and hand-washing suited us well and lots of other diseases were diminished too -- there are enough masks now, but they cannot claim them to be strictly necessary. Once the recommendation was given, though, most of the public transport providers took that as their policy.
Post by: Jitter on August 14, 2020, 10:24:28 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on August 14, 2020, 05:35:50 PM
Post by: Mebediel on August 17, 2020, 07:31:45 PM
Post by: amaranthineamusement on August 18, 2020, 10:34:08 AM
Post by: Auxivele on August 18, 2020, 04:01:04 PM
My high school friends are allowed to go to school, but they can only go in person twice a week. The other 3 days they have to study at home. It's all split up alphabetically.
Post by: Yastreb on August 18, 2020, 07:32:00 PM
Mirasol, I understood your comment just the way you mean it. More it was for Yastreb.
I expressed myself rather bluntly in my post, and I apologise for the tone of it.
I was expressing my surprise as just how the compulsory mask-wearing was put in place in Victoria without any apparent legal argument or much in the way of civil disobedience, save for (to my knowledge) the woman who walked into a hardware store and confronted staff, filming herself doing so as she taunted them in a manner I've seen in videos made by Sovereign Citizens.
Post by: Jitter on August 19, 2020, 01:43:38 AM
I expressed myself rather bluntly in my post, and I apologise for the tone of it.
No worries Yastreb, and no need to apologize! I just wanted to clarify.
Post by: RanVor on October 17, 2020, 06:14:04 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on October 17, 2020, 11:26:44 AM
EDIT: We're past 20 000 per day country-wide.
Post by: Jitter on October 17, 2020, 12:02:17 PM
We didn’t have actual curfew in the spring and aren’t likely to get any now, but restaurants must close at 23 and stop selling alcohol at 22 in Helsinki area and other areas where the second wave has properly started. Recommendation to work from home is possible is in force nationally as is strong recommendation to use masks in public transport, in shops etc. Maybe around half of people do. So, me and hubby are working from home but the kids are at school. The older one’s high school rules masks are required but it’s not enforced so “people are using them quite well” he says.
So, here we go again. Dammit. I knew it was coming, but it’s still irritating.
EDIT: recommendation to work from home IF possible is in force.
Post by: Yastreb on October 18, 2020, 01:27:42 AM
The limit on time outside one's home has been removed.
Travel is allowed out to 25 kilometres.
Up to 10 people from two households can gather outdoors.
Hairdressers and pet grooming businesses can reopen.
Real estate inspections and auctions can resume.
Further easing of restrictions may be announced on 1 November.
Post by: Róisín on October 18, 2020, 02:08:43 AM
Post by: Lenny on October 19, 2020, 08:42:45 AM
If the partial lockdown doesn't bring results needed by next week, we're going into complete lockdown. Hospital admissions are far fewer than back in March, but infections have skyrocketed to between 5000 and 6000 per day. For a tiny country like this that's not great. Right now most infections have been in the university-age group, if it reaches any at-risk group the hospitals will have pretty big problems again - the capacity is already at such a point that they're putting off life-saving urgent surgeries.
Post by: Jitter on October 19, 2020, 12:27:11 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on October 19, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Yastreb, best of luck with your state’s reopening! Let us just hope that no idiots mess it up with carelessness this time!
Errr, that would be us this time. Australia finally cracked open their borders to New Zealand to allow quarantine-free travel NZ -> Oz (not the other way yet), but only to NSW and Northern Territories. First thing, some New Zealanders travel to Sydney, then book onto flights to Melbourne and Perth. *facepalm*
Granted, we have no community transmission at the moment (just cases in managed isolation), but still, what numpties.
Post by: Keep Looking on October 19, 2020, 11:36:05 PM
Errr, that would be us this time. Australia finally cracked open their borders to New Zealand to allow quarantine-free travel NZ -> Oz (not the other way yet), but only to NSW and Northern Territories. First thing, some New Zealanders travel to Sydney, then book onto flights to Melbourne and Perth. *facepalm*
Granted, we have no community transmission at the moment (just cases in managed isolation), but still, what numpties.
Yeah, no, I heard about that on the radio. As far as I know, the New Zealanders that got to Perth are obeying the law and isolating themselves for two weeks, but it still remains that legally they shouldn't have been able to get here in the first place - even travelling here from other states, you have to go through a whole process of applying for a permit and everything.
Post by: Mirasol on October 22, 2020, 03:25:41 PM
Things sure have been "progressing" over here in Germany too, rather for the worse.
We had over 10,000 new cases for the first time today, and the numbers are rising, yet so far no lockdowns are happening as far as I know. (Which is good I guess, so life can go on.) As usual, every larger area cooks their own soup regarding rules and restrictions. (Not as good...) There is an official rule that marks areas as "high-risk" as soon as they hit a certain amount of infected people, but the consequences for the people living in these areas vary depending on who is in charge of them.
I do live in such a "high-risk"-area, it has so far resulted in slight traveling-restrictions, stricter face-mask-rules, and I think earlier closing-hours for pubs and restaurants. So far, me, family and friends are fine though.
My school has had its first confirmed case at the end of last week, that number has by now risen to about 7 (official news are always delayed a few days plus rumors spiral), but it looks like most of these aren´t really related to each other and came from different sources. Regardless, by now several classes are in quarantine, some classrooms were blocked to host online-classes from there. My class-level is by now one of the last ones without cases, possibly due to the fact that we were about the only ones who kept on wearing face-masks even when they weren´t mandatory, which they now are again.
Still, everything is sort of tense, and opinions on everything surrounding the pandemic are more and more discussed in ways and places where it´s not exactly good for students getting along with each other. Like in our main-classlevel-whatsapp-group, which has led to both heated arguments over even the existence of danger in the corona-virus (I hadn´t really had contact with people who believed in these conspiracies before, so to read them now among people I´ve known in parts for a really long time kinda hurt...), as well as almost harassment of students who dared to come to school with a slight cold despite wearing a mask. A few times our Admins had to step in to block everyone from texting for a few hours. With opinions ranging from complete panic to complete disbelief, it sure is a situation.
Either way, we have a holiday soon, and with both cases in school rising and the building site next to it having recently destroyed both heating (in some parts) and internet connection (in the entire building) (sh*t happens, I guess...), many people don´t believe that it´ll open as normal again once the holiday´s over. Fun times!
Butter Good and stay safe everyone!
Post by: Yastreb on October 27, 2020, 05:31:44 AM
Zero.
The last time Victoria had zero cases was 9 June, 139 days ago. Even more incredibly, it's zero cases off the back of a huge testing drive. Over the course of this weekend, we asked Victorians living in our northern suburbs to get tested. They did just that.
In 24 hours, we have been able to process an additional 14,024 tests — 3196 of them from these communities. This morning we've processed an extra 1157.
And not a single new case has been found.
I want to thank everyone who did the right thing by their community and our state in getting tested. I also want to thank the nurses, lab technicians, collectors, couriers — everyone who has been working around the clock to process these tests.
Because of that effort, we've been able to get the results faster than we thought. These results give us confidence — confidence that even if we do identify positive cases in any further tests — we are firmly on top of this virus.
It's why today I can confirm what we've long waited for: Melbourne will move out of lockdown and into the Third Step. Before we get to the bit that almost everyone will be waiting for, an ask:
As we take these steady steps towards reopening, the message remains the same: please, stay safe. And if you have symptoms, you must get tested.
Under the Third Step, and from 11:59pm on Tuesday, Melbourne will move from "stay home" to "stay safe", with no more restrictions on the reasons to leave home.
The 25-kilometre limit though, will remain in place. I know it's frustrating, but this is about making sure that even as we ease restrictions, we're limiting the virus's ability to travel.
It's why the border between regional Victoria and Melbourne will also remain in place — for just a bit longer.
Under the Third Step, Melbourne's cafes, restaurants and pubs can reopen. Outdoors with a limit of up to 50, indoors up to 20. Density limits, record keeping and COVIDSafe Plans also apply.
Remaining retail will also open. Beauty and personal care services can resume. And for those businesses who need to get ready for their reopening — staff will be able to attend onsite straight away.
Outdoor contact sport for those aged 18 and under will also begin again — so too can non-contact sport for adults. PT, fitness and dance classes can also be held outdoors with up to ten people, and the number of people at outdoor pools can increase to 50, subject to density limits.
Libraries and community venues will be able to open for outdoor events. Outdoor entertainment venues can also begin hosting visitors.
And faith communities will be able to meet for outdoor religious ceremonies with up to 20 people, in addition to those required for the service. Indoor services can be held with up to 10.
Weddings will increase to ten people, and funerals up to 20.
Workplaces will no longer need to be on the permitted work list to open and the ability to work will change to "if you can work from home you must work from home".
While the boundary is in place, work permits will still be required for workers from Melbourne travelling into regional Victoria — and vice versa.
I know the thing many people are missing is having people over to visit — but as we've seen, this virus is at its most dangerous when we're indoors and relaxed and comfortable.
It's why we're going to take the next 24 hours to understand how we might be able to make this work — safely —and I'll have more to say about this tomorrow.
From 8 November, and if we can continue driving case numbers down, the 25km limit will come off and Melbourne will be able to meet regional Victoria at the same level.
That means the same eased restrictions that apply to regional Victoria will also apply to Melbourne. The capacity of pubs and restaurants will increase, with up to 40 inside and 70 outside.
Religious gatherings will expand with up 20 people and a faith leader indoors, and 50 outside.
Gyms and indoor fitness will be able to reopen — with some strict safety precautions in place. And because Melburnians will have well and truly earned a holiday, accommodation will also reopen.
The border between the city and the rest of our state will also fall away. I know personally — deeply — just how much this will mean for thousands of Victorians who haven't been able to see loved ones for far too long. It will mean families are whole again. Our state is whole again.
I understand there will be questions, "what about X?" or "when can I do Y?". And I promise, we'll also have an update on 8 November on the timelines and thresholds for taking the Last Step.
We want to reach COVID Normal by Christmas and right now, we're on track to do that. It's why we've got to keep going — all of us.
Understanding that even though restrictions may ease, our personal responsibility in all this doesn't. We have come so far and given so much.
Getting here — and staying here — relies on the efforts of every Victorian. Keep going.
Post by: Jitter on October 27, 2020, 08:26:37 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on October 27, 2020, 11:52:19 AM
Here in Portugal, in the other hand, things are still getting worse. But at least that pushed our... let's say just "not very clever" government to make wearing masks mandatory, a decision which I believe will make a very positive difference in two or three weeks. (and one that should have been put in action months ago)
There's also the decision to forbid traveling to other municipalities next weekend, when usually lots travel because it's "All Saints Day" and also the day(s) when people visit cemeteries to honour their dead. This years many cemeteries will be closed or will have limited access, which will prevent the usual agglomerations on their entrances.
A few municipalities with higher numbers were also put on a limited lockdown, trying to minimize the spread to their surrounding areas.
Meanwhile the country's economy remains slow and weak, and everybody is tired (myself included), particularly health personal that has been working extra hours since March... Thankfully our numbers are not as bad as our Spanish neighbors...
Lots of safe hugs for you all, and be careful out there.
Post by: Grade E cat on October 27, 2020, 04:14:16 PM
EDIT: changed patients to new cases, which is more accurate
Post by: Jitter on October 27, 2020, 04:47:25 PM
Post by: Grade E cat on October 28, 2020, 04:16:12 PM
Post by: midwestmutt on November 17, 2020, 07:49:40 PM
Post by: Róisín on November 17, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on November 18, 2020, 06:20:24 PM
We haven't moved up in alert levels, but from today masks are not *required* on all transport, including trains, buses, planes. Taxi *drivers* have to wear them, but not passengers, although there has been outcry over that policy.
NZ government has entered into agreements for supply of vaccines with Pfizer, and advance purchase consideration pending outcome of Phase 3 trials, with Janssen (J&J). The latter is meant to come into effect late 2021 and into 2022. The Pfizer ones require very specialised bespoke cold storage (70C below) that is not available in most of the country.
Post by: RanVor on November 18, 2020, 08:14:32 PM
Post by: Róisín on November 18, 2020, 11:41:48 PM
We are being very careful, believe me!
Post by: Yastreb on November 20, 2020, 01:34:54 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-coronavirus-hard-lockdown-to-end-early/12903834 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-coronavirus-hard-lockdown-to-end-early/12903834)
"South Australia will come out of hard lockdown on Saturday night — three days early — and outdoor exercise with family or housemates will be allowed "effective immediately", authorities have announced."
Post by: Róisín on November 20, 2020, 02:50:59 AM
How are things on your side of the border?
Post by: Yastreb on November 20, 2020, 05:39:51 AM
And I hope the people who went panic-buying in SA have no joy in trying to return their stockpiles.
Post by: midwestmutt on November 20, 2020, 09:05:53 AM
Post by: Vulpes on November 22, 2020, 06:54:17 PM
Things are progressing exactly as the experts warned months ago.
Isn't that sad, though. And here in Newfoundland, we're watching the second wave wash over everyone else and nobody thinks it's going to happen here. We humans are so good at deluding ourselves. But it's lapping at our toes already, with signs of community spread.
We had no cases in the province for months, except for the odd returning traveller who was self-isolating as required, but now we've had several consecutive days of new cases. I was letting my guard slip a little - not being so careful to get to the store early, making some slightly frivolous purchases, having a coffee with a friend in a cafe - but the next town along has shut its town offices and recreation centre for two weeks due to several cases popping up there, so that's the end of that.
Fortunately the people I most enjoy being around all are hardy souls who enjoy the outdoors even in our sometimes filthy weather, so I can get the small amount of socializing I need with the odd hike.
Post by: Róisín on November 22, 2020, 10:59:37 PM
Post by: Róisín on November 24, 2020, 03:50:50 AM
And a worrying thing here: while we were at the medical centre attached to the local hospital today, having Star’s twice-or-thrice-weekly dressing changes, we were asked to stay in the treatment cubicle and not open the curtains into the main treatment room while somebody else was brought in there in a wheelchair (from what I glimpsed of the old-fashioned wheelchair, likely somebody from the old folks’ home attached to the hospital). I overheard ‘Covid swab test’ and ‘Here, granny, if you can’t get it over your ears just hold it over your face for a minute’. We were left waiting for half an hour or so after the lady was wheeled out, which we were rather glad of. Worrying.
Post by: Yastreb on November 24, 2020, 07:51:23 AM
Post by: Róisín on November 24, 2020, 11:07:02 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on November 24, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
Post by: Yastreb on November 26, 2020, 09:44:27 PM
There are no active cases in the state.
It means Victoria has achieved what is widely considered to be the official benchmark for eliminating COVID-19 from the community.
We did it.
Post by: wavewright62 on November 26, 2020, 10:14:27 PM
Courtesy of the ABC: Victoria has recorded 28 days in a row of zero new cases of coronavirus and no deaths.(https://41.media.tumblr.com/a3b4396e726b74afb6f0ff7a542b7137/tumblr_inline_nxd1r1HzWD1r2g2kx_540.png)
There are no active cases in the state.
It means Victoria has achieved what is widely considered to be the official benchmark for eliminating COVID-19 from the community.
We did it.
Post by: midwestmutt on November 30, 2020, 07:23:39 PM
Post by: Róisín on November 30, 2020, 11:25:56 PM
Post by: Mirasol on December 01, 2020, 02:22:15 PM
So many people dying... Ugggh, I just hope this whole thing passes soon!
Stand Still, Stay Silent behind your mask and may the virus pass without noticing you ;)Well said!
Post by: Yastreb on December 07, 2020, 04:05:45 AM
Over the last few days, I've noticed that the airways are still almost empty. Apart from helicopters, the only aircraft have been short-haul turboprops (Fairchild Metroliner, SAAB 340 and the like). Even with the easing of state border restrictions, there's apparently little call for passenger flights.
Post by: Róisín on December 07, 2020, 06:41:54 AM
Post by: Mirasol on December 13, 2020, 07:19:01 AM
Before we had "light lockdown", which basically ment life as normal with less contacts, more mask-rules and restaurants and entertainment-businesses closed. It stopped the second wave from growing exponentially, but ultimately didn´t prevent cases passing the critical amount for our health system. So this is what´s happening now.
Post by: JoB on December 13, 2020, 10:06:04 AM
Germany is going back into hard lockdown starting Wednesday, 16.12., with [various measures]... but no coordinated say on curfews. So, when I make the trip back from France on the 16th (a solid 12h at the steering wheel), I'm subject to
- a requirement to preregister my arrival (https://www.einreiseanmeldung.de/) in Germany,
- a 20:00-06:00 curfew (https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus) within France,
- a 20:00-05:00 curfew (https://www.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/service/alle-meldungen/meldung/pid/baden-wuerttemberg-erlaesst-landesweite-ausgangsbeschraenkungen/) if I pass through Baden-Württemberg,
- apparently no curfew while passing through Saarland and/or Rheinland-Pfalz, but
- once I arrive in Nordrhein-Westfalen, there is neither a curfew nor a requirement to quarantine (which IIUC is what the preregistration was originally meant to help enforce) because nobody has taken any further action yet after the OVG Münster court ruling overthrowing the NRW Einreiseverordnung.
Post by: Grade E cat on December 13, 2020, 02:57:55 PM
Post by: moredhel on December 13, 2020, 03:26:12 PM
What trips me off is changes in rules happening in the middle of the work week. Something changing between the weekend and a traditional workday (or even Saturday and Sunday) feels more normal than something changing between two workdays.
Our governments here have waited too long and our hospitals are full. Every day earlier is better. Because of the federal structure of germany the is not one person in charge who decides to start it tomorrow. There are at least 17 people in charge. Starting 16. 12. ist very fast.
Post by: wavewright62 on December 14, 2020, 12:53:11 AM
Post by: JoB on December 14, 2020, 03:58:44 AM
Need to cross a lot of borders, I gather?Umh, no? Just one national border (from France into Germany, going through Benelux would complicate things even more) and I don't go to France particularly often, but when I do, it's for family reasons and if the date set turns out to be "a bad choice", it usually isn't a choice of mine in the first place. :(
Drive safely, JoBThanks, but I don't think that the driving will be the particularly risky part of the trip this time ... :3
(And I'd like to put it on record that I do not fully agree with a distant relative who once said that "the only way to drive safely in France(*) is a Sherman tank with a diplomatic license plate".
(*) Actually, he meant Paris, though.)
Post by: Yastreb on December 15, 2020, 03:49:40 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-14/south-korea-covid-19-emergency-third-wave-record-cases/12979910 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-14/south-korea-covid-19-emergency-third-wave-record-cases/12979910)
A third wave? That's a very bad sign.
Post by: JoB on December 17, 2020, 04:49:42 PM
Updates ...
- a requirement to preregister my arrival (https://www.einreiseanmeldung.de/) in Germany,
- [...]
- once I arrive in Nordrhein-Westfalen, there is neither a curfew nor a requirement to quarantine
- The RKI (which operates (part of?) the preregistration website) refers to state legislation to check "for details", but won't have anything about NRW saying "no quarantine". So, I currently don't have the slightest whether I'm officially (but tacitly) quarantined or not; will have to read the full text of the act making the preregistration mandatory to figure it out myself.
- Once more, I find that German healthcare is pretty much inoperational in late December, if "helped" by the pandemic. In order to get a second (domestic) opinion on that broken hand, I'd have to physically visit my GP, get referred to a specialist, find one, make an appointment, and then visit him - oh, you're in home quarantine? Call again after that. (At which point the bone will already have fused back together 20° crooked, which the French doctors deem OK. Note that I have all relevant medical documents at hand in electronic form, it's just the administrative/insurance part that necessitates juggling a paper form and a chipcard between the doctors' offices.)
- Things you don't want to read posted in the staircase when returning home in the evening to immediately quarantine yourself: "Due to repairs, the building's tap water will be turned off first thing tomorrow morning." (Only for half a day, luckily.)
Post by: Grade E cat on December 19, 2020, 03:01:25 PM
Also, is a there an achievement for "presidents of both countries for which you have a passport have tested positive"?
Post by: Gwenno on December 19, 2020, 04:42:16 PM
There's apparently a new strain of Covid that's more contagious in the UK. If it made it to the contient, chances are that France is involved in some way.
Also, is a there an achievement for "presidents of both countries for which you have a passport have tested positive"?
Yeah, we've gone full lockdown here again because of it, and a lot of people are upset because of the last minute disruption to their Christmas plans. I understand why they're upset, but I hope people keep to the rules regardless and we can lower the number of cases. I think most people know people who've caught it at this point, there's just been so many cases, even living as rurally as I do!
Post by: Grade E cat on December 26, 2020, 02:47:00 PM
Post by: JoB on December 27, 2020, 04:10:24 AM
It's pretty much a "the only plot twist is that it didn't happen sooner" situation, but more the contagious mutant was found in France.I considered "hopefully we can keep the 'UK mutation' off the continent proper" a failure when Denmark reported ~30 cases all over the country ... :(
(When was that again? On 21-Dec-2020, the official count (https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/corona-mutation-faq-101.html) was still at nine ...)
Not too surprising, though, considering that sightings of the N501Y mutation go back to April (in Brazil) ...
Post by: Grade E cat on January 11, 2021, 03:20:47 AM
My own "a little on edge" news is that one of the French clusters of the British/UK variant is somewhere in the town right west of mine and I live close enough to the the four-lane road separating the two towns that the closest (and easiest to walk to) supermarket is right on the eastern edge of the town in which the cluster was found. My mother and I went to another supermarket this week-end (it's in a mall, so it's mostly a pyschological move).
EDIT on 14th: We're starting the nation-wide crufew at 6:00 PM this Saturday. It was already in place in many "departements" in the part of the country far away enough from the Atlantic to not get oceanic climate.
Post by: Lenny on January 16, 2021, 03:43:10 PM
Post by: thegreyarea on January 16, 2021, 06:31:40 PM
It's beyond (my) understanding that we still see several people without masks, even forming small groups on the street >:(
Yesterday we went back on general lockdown (to last until the end of February), albeit "general" is an overstatement. There are dozens of exceptions, and many say that's easier to tell what's to be closed than the opposite. The most relevant areas closed are restaurants, cafes and bars (even if restaurants may work for take-away and delivery), clothes, shoes, hotels, gyms, furniture and a few more. And everyone able to work from home shall do that, which includes me (most times).
Anyway we're hoping that it will reduce the spread to a more manageable level until we can get more people vaccinated. But the situation is complicated and will remain like that until Summer (if everything works for the best).
Hopping for the best on your side Lenny, and BTW we aren't also used to that kind of integrity. Not at all...
Post by: wavewright62 on January 17, 2021, 02:11:50 AM
Post by: JoB on January 18, 2021, 10:00:22 AM
Spoiler: rant • show
Post by: Grade E cat on January 18, 2021, 10:43:21 AM
Some time ago, we had a news item saying single-use surgical masks could be washed up to ten times.
Meanwhile, luck has it that the first detected case of the South African variant is in the "departement" where I live (neighboring town with UK variant cluster is technically in another one, hence the relatively nifty four-lane-road border). Today is also the first day the bite of the 6:00 PM curfew is being felt, as my household has taken to do some errands between 6:00 and 7:00 PM on weekdays.
Post by: Grade E cat on January 18, 2021, 03:08:38 PM
Post by: Annuil on January 18, 2021, 04:41:04 PM
"Great news!" was my spontaneaous reaction, but some people did end up in the hospital, so I'll settle for "Not bad considering how much worse it could have been!"Indeed, Grade E Cat, however most of the people who ended up in the hospitals are already home and/or got the infusions, so we are doing quite good ;)
Post by: JoB on January 20, 2021, 02:39:18 AM
Figures in Germany are unsatisfying, Feds and state MPs will meet again tomorrow (ahead of schedule), rumor has it that they'll discuss not only extending the lockdown into / all across February, but also nightly curfews and upgrading part of the mandatory mask-wearing to FFP2 masks.Ooooookay then, lockdown extended 'til mid-February (very much expected), no curfews, and apart from the somewhat elusive FFP2 masks, we may also use KN95, N95 (essentially only heard of), and "OP-Masken" ("surgical masks"), which is a term I've never heard before in the context of either regulation or shops' specifications, only colloquially for whatever appears on the screen when you watch Scrubs, Dr. House, Medical Detectives etc. etc..
Spoiler: hmmm ... • show
Oh, and not much of an agreement on whether schools and the like will be open(ed). As in, the first MP announcing that his state will do whatever he decides right in the first news broadcasts this morning.
Edit: There's also the term "medical masks" that seemed to be used just as a collective noun for all of the above, but allegedly does imply some specific regulations / test seals. Let's see whether I can find some primary sources for that now ...
Edit 2: Turns out that both "OP-Maske" and "medizinische Maske" are tied to EU norm EN 14683 (https://www.bfarm.de/SharedDocs/Risikoinformationen/Medizinprodukte/DE/schutzmasken.html) (with rumors of "only class 3 thereof"), which doesn't necessarily appear on the mask itself beyond a bare CE sign (which has much lower requirements IIUC). See vendor's descriptions, and use of forgery blacklists (https://www.tuv.com/germany/de/schwarze-liste/index.jsp) might well be advisable ...
Post by: thegreyarea on January 20, 2021, 10:18:40 AM
A few days ago my wife, that is a doctor, examined a COVID positive patient that lied (on entrance she didn't declare any symptoms, just admitting them at the end... >:( ), including watching closely her throat. The only thing between them was a single type II medical mask, and my wife wasn't contaminated (she had to be tested after that). So you can trust that they are good enough. I've been using them every time I go out since March, have been several times with people that later found they had the virus and I also wasn't contaminated. Anyway one should not take chances and be very careful and disciplined about washing hands and avoiding crowded places as much as possible.
https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/md_sector/docs/md_guidance-reg-req-med-face-masks.pdf
Just if any of you are in the mood for reading a scientific paper on that issue: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7#Sec12
* Of course there will be forgeries, particularly online. I would buy it at a pharmacy.
Post by: JoB on January 21, 2021, 02:39:26 AM
A few days ago my wife, that is a doctor, examined a COVID positive patient that lied (on entrance she didn't declare any symptoms, just admitting them at the end... >:( ), including watching closely her throat. The only thing between them was a single type II medical mask, and my wife wasn't contaminated (she had to be tested after that). So you can trust that they are good enough.I'm fairly sure that professional masks used in a professional manner will do their job, as that is what they're made for. But on the other hand, I have not yet heard any of the authorities talking to the general public address the additional requirements for that, like beards/shaving or when and how to do a fit-test. Or that "vented" masks(*) pretty much drop the part of protecting others - and, for that matter, places you visit - from contamination. There seems to be a lot of experts convinced that if you have the hoi polloi wear medical or FFP2 masks whichever way they want, without specific training how to do that properly, they'll turn out to not be any more effective than non-rated ones.
(*) For those not familiar with the vocabulary: That's a mask where only the inhaled air passes through the filters, while the exhalation bypasses them through a one-way valve.
Anyway one should not take chances and be very careful and disciplined about washing hands and avoiding crowded places as much as possible.[hasn't met other people outside the occasional visit to the supermarket since mid-December]
[which is why I've permitted my beard to grow extra long right now ..]
Just if any of you are in the mood for reading a scientific paper on that issue: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7#Sec12... is it just me, or did the medical mask consistently outperform the (unvented) KN95 there?
JoB, what our medical personal use (when they don't have a N95, that are white and pointy) are those greenish medical masks... since you suggested the reverse priority here ...
Post by: thegreyarea on January 21, 2021, 07:33:26 AM
I'm fairly sure that professional masks used in a professional manner will do their job, as that is what they're made for. But on the other hand, I have not yet heard any of the authorities talking to the general public address the additional requirements for that, like beards/shaving or when and how to do a fit-test. Or that "vented" masks(*) pretty much drop the part of protecting others - and, for that matter, places you visit - from contamination. There seems to be a lot of experts convinced that if you have the hoi polloi wear medical or FFP2 masks whichever way they want, without specific training how to do that properly, they'll turn out to not be any more effective than non-rated ones.That's something that puzzles me too: Why we don't see public advice (particularly on TV) on how to put and use those medical masks. Yes, it's simple, but I see everyday people wearing it wrong, like not covering the nose (!) or pushing them below the chin without removing them (thus putting the internal side in contact with exposed skin, just to put that internal side, moments later, in direct contact with their own mouths and noses...)
And I made a mistake. The kind my wife and other medical staff preferably use are FFP2 - KN95, that is unvented, and not N95. It would make no sense to protect the professional while exposing patients.
[hasn't met other people outside the occasional visit to the supermarket since mid-December]I don't use a beard and never thought about the problem that it could mean when one wants to wear a mask. But I see doctors using them over beards without much thought, so I suppose (but I may be wrong) that beards don't have a significant effect. otherwise surgeons would be required not to use beards, right?
[which is why I've permitted my beard to grow extra long right now ..]
... is it just me, or did the medical mask consistently outperform the (unvented) KN95 there?... since you suggested the reverse priority here ...In the paper they tested efficiency in blocking outgoing droplets, and that's what medical masks are created for, to prevent doctors to infect patients. They also work the other way, but IIRC their ability to filter incoming droplets is more or less 80%. KN95 are named like that because they filter at least 95% of the incoming air, but as we see in the study are not so efficient on stopping the outgoing droplets. So if the main objective is to protect the professional (that is constantly exposed and is a valuable, hard-to-replace asset) them KN95, even if more expensive and demanding to produce, are the option. Otherwise medical masks are the choice because they are cheaper and easier to produce in large quantities, but always bearing in mind that when we use one we are mainly protecting others, while they protect us. That's why I find people that find excuses* for not wearing them so selfish.
*There is a set of medical conditions that make wearing a mask not advisable. Those people are not selfish, but should actually remain at home because they surely are at greater risk.
Post by: thegreyarea on January 21, 2021, 07:48:15 AM
But there's at least one good new. She will be vaccinated tomorrow :)
Post by: Vulpes on January 21, 2021, 09:05:01 AM
Here the requirement is for non-medical masks. Fabric, three ply preferred, two is acceptable and is what I've got, although I've made them with a pocket where you can stick a coffee filter in if desired. I don't use coffee filters (French press and moka pot) so I haven't tried that out yet. Cases are almost non-existent here so it doesn't seem worth the bother. If we have any outbreaks, I'll be picking up coffee filters for sure!
Newfoundland has been very lucky, total cases in the low hundreds and currently maybe six active cases in a province of ~500,000. We too could do with an education campaign on mask use - I see the same misuses here. Vaccinations are starting, slowly - low population density and long distances make it a challenge. But the end is in sight, somewhere down the line...
Post by: Mirasol on January 21, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Also Germany here: Homeschooling is getting prolonged more and more, now we don´t have to write all the classtests anymore, apparently. Until now, we were allowed to go to school for writing exams, and then go home again. But only "necessary" exams. What is necessary? Uhm, yeah, next question?
As far as I understood the rule now is still quite similar, just now "absolutely necessary", which isn´t explained much better. And as I´m in one of the classes that theoretically graduate this year, every grade is somewhat necessary. But what exactly changes now with the stricter rules, nobody really knows. (No really, we got an official letter by the principal which essentially narrowed down to "homeschooling will last longer, maybe things change, maybe not".) You really can´t blame the teachers here, but I think someone should at least give us information whether the stricter mask-rules now also apply to schools...
Spoiler: bit of ranting • show
Post by: JoB on January 21, 2021, 11:58:57 AM
I see everyday people wearing it wrong, like not covering the nose (!)(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a5WdqVV_460s.jpg)
(I admit that I'm not treating my mask with Doc Rat level diligence (https://www.docrat.com.au/comic/just-use-some-thoughtful-hygiene-with-your-mask/), either, but ... !
I don't use a beard and never thought about the problem that it could mean when one wants to wear a mask. But I see doctors using them over beards without much thought, so I suppose (but I may be wrong) that beards don't have a significant effect. otherwise surgeons would be required not to use beards, right?Dunno about Portugal, but word in Germany is that medical personnel is encouraged to shave, but allowed to decide according to their professional knowledge and diligence.
(Which, from a jurisprudence POV, is a way to say "get caught with insufficient protection and someone getting infected because of it and you'll get the best lawyer that YOUR money can buy".)
In other news, I got my online shopping delivered today, with the FFP2 masks I ordered ... and a complimentary free cloth mask. ;D Seems that the shop's marketing is lagging a tad behind the legislation-to-be.
Spoiler: verify verify verify ... • show
You really can´t blame the teachers here, but I think someone should at least give us information whether the stricter mask-rules now also apply to schools...No final statement on that until the states have written and enacted (and hopefully put online - looking at you, Saarland!) the actual legalese. So far, the wording is that the requirement for certified masks is aimed at public transport and shops only ...
Spoiler: bit of ranting • show
Spoiler: show
Post by: thorny on January 21, 2021, 07:02:27 PM
The kind my wife and other medical staff preferably use are FFP2 - KN95, that is unvented, and not N95. It would make no sense to protect the professional while exposing patients.
At least in normal times, N95's are made in both vented and unvented versions. (The other types may be too.) They're also used by people doing physical activity in dusty situations at times/in conditions in which contagion isn't an issue -- farmers and carpenters and so on; an exhale valve makes it a lot easier to breathe in them while active.
As you say, the exhale valve versions are useless when at least part of the idea is to protect other people from the wearer's possible infection.
Post by: Mirasol on January 22, 2021, 02:14:04 PM
Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Post by: JoB on January 23, 2021, 05:18:05 AM
No final statement on that until the states have written and enacted (and hopefully put online - looking at you, Saarland!) the actual legalese. So far, the wording is that the requirement for certified masks is aimed at public transport and shops only ...... aaaand at least NRW also added doctors' offices and religious congregations (https://www.land.nrw/sites/default/files/asset/document/2021-01-21_coronaschvo_ab_25.01.2021_lesefassung_mit_markierungen_0.pdf#4) to the list - but not schools ...
Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Anyway, just one letter, sent from the Bundesdruckerei as they sent the ID Card to the community, so all it could say is that my card should be waiting for me some time later wherever my communal Meldebehörde deals with handing them out. If your letter pinpoints a specific building, it ought to come directly from your Bürgerbüro instead ...
)Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 31, 2021, 06:32:49 AM
Said security guard actually visited a bunch of businesses pretty near me, but so far at least our paths don't seem to have crossed. Also I did all my grocery shopping yesterday so I have plenty of supplies to see me through.
My boss will likely expect me to work from home, but I don't work that way very well at all, so he'll get what he gets. I may end up going in to the office for a couple of days - which you're allowed to do if you can't work from home and as long as you wear a mask. I'm currently following government instructions to make one by cutting up some old clothes - although I'll be using staples and duct tape instead of stitching for a contemporary industrial look.
I suppose I'll spend a lot of the next week sleeping and cleaning - which is no bad thing.
Post by: Keep Looking on January 31, 2021, 08:51:48 AM
It was a bit of a shock for me, as this week was gonna be the first week of the school term (and I'm going into my last year of high school, so it's a year I've had a fair bit of apprehension for) but now it's just... delayed, I suppose. Dunno what this is gonna do to our assessment schedules, but I'll deal with that when it comes.
Although the sudden announcement was a bit jolting, I do appreciate how our government is taking action quickly - hopefully we'll be able to curb the spread before it really gets anywhere. Wyrm, I hope you stay safe from the virus, given you're in the general area.
My older brother and his girlfriend managed to observe the hordes of panic-buyers at the shops near his girlfriend's place - this whole announcement has set people right back into their 'stock up on toilet paper' instincts, which is rather unfortunate, but I suppose it really isn't all that surprising.
Post by: thegreyarea on January 31, 2021, 02:28:09 PM
Wyrm, I'm curious to see the duct tape mask. Do you have a picture?
"Duct tape works anywhere. Duct tape is magic and should be worshiped."
Andy Weir, The Martian
(anyway I would try to use an homologated model and leave the hand-made one for low-risk moments)
Post by: Grade E cat on January 31, 2021, 03:01:52 PM
My current masking technique consists of various forms of double masking.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on January 31, 2021, 07:40:41 PM
So far it's looking good for my not being exposed. Both the carrier and I were in Maylands (just down the road from me) on Saturday afternoon, but I left at 2:30 and he didn't get there until 2:30. So it looks like we missed each other. But I guess we'll see.
I'm sure a week shouldn't affect your assessment Keep Looking, particularly at the start of the year. And even if it does, I'm sure the authorities will be merciful :)
I will post a picture of my mask when I've finished making it. I am following the official instructions (https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/07/coronavirus-covid-19-how-to-make-a-cloth-mask.pdf), so it should be good enough for Government work at least.
Post by: midwestmutt on February 01, 2021, 10:54:21 AM
Post by: JoB on February 01, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
(Apart from such seniors being unable to use online routes in the first place, in the states that didn't go phone-only, sending them an SMS that refers them to H-T-T-P-S-what-the-heck-is-that-and-what-is-a-"link" for forms and documents to bring to the vaccination is a nonstarter. Who woulda thunk. My 80+yo uncle in Hessen got lucky - if you can call it "lucky" that his two doses will be given about forty days apart now. Assuming that the dates won't get shoved around by vaccine delays, of course.)
With the masks being worn in shops, public transport, and medical offices now being required to be of the "medical or FFP2" variety, and employers having a "natural" affinity to their national equivalent of OSHA certifications, opportunities to wear anything but bought-as-certified masks are pretty much nil for me now. (Also, the "medical" category has been added late in the process, and is still rather rarely available in my neck of the woods, unlike FFP2.) I suppose that anyone who has kids - who go to school, will get accompanied to playgrounds, etc. - still can make good use of DIY-grade ones, though.
Post by: Purple Wyrm on February 02, 2021, 02:36:37 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtMlUKaUUAAr4Cz?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtMlWhNU0AAQahX?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Oh, and on top of the virus, the city is now burning down (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-02/perth-bushfire-destroys-homes-residents-evacuated/13112812) :(
Post by: Keep Looking on February 02, 2021, 02:46:55 AM
And yeah - the fire. I wouldn't quite say that the city is burning down, but the entire city is covered in smoke, and my friends who live in more northerly and easterly suburbs than me have reported having ash coming from the sky as well. It's up in the hills to the northeast of the city - the hills always get some fires, but this one is very bad. My friend who lives in the area had to evacuate his sister and pets in the middle of last night (thankfully they have some relatives to stay with in the city, so they don't have to stay at an evacuation centre). It's... not a fun time.
Post by: thorny on February 02, 2021, 10:11:52 AM
My mask, as promised. It looks a bit weird, but meets the government requirements.
Oh, and on top of the virus, the city is now burning down[/url]
The fires look awful.
-- Purple Wyrm, I can't see anything in the pictures; just two big blank white squares.
Post by: Annuil on February 02, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Yeah, my family switched to hand-made masks as soon as the pandemic started. In the beginning there were actually no disposable masks in the stores, so we made them ourselves. (I'm saying, Minna should start selling the masks designed like the ones in her comic, I would have bought one!)
A little update on our church out-brake... after a month of quarantine and barely any zoom-services we have successfully returned to our building and last Sunday (the 31st of January) we were together again! Thankfully all of us survived, no deaths, some people are still recovering but everything else seems to be quite up-lifting.
We are alive! (I didn't get sick even though my sister had covid and we live in one house, so I am either already immune or the virus miraculously avoided me, so... hoping for the best)
Butter good, everyone! :lalli:
Post by: Mirasol on February 02, 2021, 02:56:24 PM
And may you at least sort-of normally be able to start your last year of school, KeepLooking! Mine is now halfway over, and the only reason I saw any of my classmates in person in about a month is because we had to pick up our report and graded exams at school the other day. I hope yours ends up a bit more normal...
Yeah, my family switched to hand-made masks as soon as the pandemic started. In the beginning there were actually no disposable masks in the stores, so we made them ourselves.
We had the same situation. Now we have a box full of self-made and bought reusable masks, but sadly they don´t meet the safety-standarts anymore. Well, at least for 2020 I could walk around with a colorful mask with flowers and birds on it. It was nice while it lasted. Not like I ever get to leave the house right now anyways...
But good to hear that the outbreak in your church passed, Annuil! :))
Post by: Yastreb on February 06, 2021, 12:33:00 AM
Updated summer restrictions
As of 11:59pm on 3 February 2021 new state-wide restrictions are in effect:
The limit on the number of people gathering in a household is reduced from 30 to 15, meaning the household members plus 15 visitors (excluding children under 12 months of age).
Face masks are mandatory in indoor spaces, including workplaces. If you have visitors in your home, it is strongly recommended that face masks are worn during the visit. Face masks must be worn in indoor spaces apart from when eating or drinking. If you are planning to leave your home – take a face mask.
In addition to indoor public spaces, face masks continue to be mandatory in the following locations:
- On public transport
- When riding in a ride share or taxi
- On domestic flights to and from Victoria
- At airports
The 75 per cent ‘return to work’ cap for the private sector scheduled for Monday 8 February is paused and the current cap of 50 per cent will remain in place.
(https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/how-we-live (https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/how-we-live))
(https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/worker-in-victoria-s-hotel-quarantine-program-tests-positive-for-covid-19-20210203-p56zca.html (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/worker-in-victoria-s-hotel-quarantine-program-tests-positive-for-covid-19-20210203-p56zca.html))
Post by: JoB on February 06, 2021, 03:51:59 AM
(I'm saying, Minna should start selling the masks designed like the ones in her comic, I would have bought one!)With the fully automated transparency and hammerspace features? Heck yeah take my money! :kroner: Can we have a little Mikkelaundromate add-on as well, pretty please? >:D
Now we have a box full of self-made and bought reusable masks, but sadly they don´t meet the safety-standarts anymore. Well, at least for 2020 I could walk around with a colorful mask with flowers and birds on it. It was nice while it lasted.Haven't tried that myself yet, but untrained users supposedly have more of a problem avoiding leaks at the edges of FFP2 and similar masks (which prevents them from having the full effect they're certified for) and can improve the situation by wearing a second, simple mask over that, to better press the FFP2 against the face. Certainly, that will make it yet another bit harder to breathe ...
(I was late to the fancy mask fashion, the ones I finally found nice enough to order now sit here unused, as they arrived after the requirements had been upped. ::) )
Post by: JoB on February 07, 2021, 04:14:15 AM
As you may know, there are several regions in Germany and neighboring countries having a strong carnival tradition. For the Rhineland in the West of Germany, the climax is on Rose Monday (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenmontag), in particular the parades (https://www.cologne.de/events/cologne-carnival/parade-on-rose-monday.html) in the streets on that day. The largest parades (in the cities of Cologne, Düsseldorf, and Mainz) are major tourism magnets, and there's live(-ish) coverage of them by regional TV chain WDR.
Except that there's that thing interfering with public congregations right now. The 2020 carnival was essentially cancelled entirely. So, nothing but another rain check for 2021?
Not in Cologne. The organizers teamed up with another currently-impeded pinnacle of local culture, the "Hänneschen-Theater (https://www.haenneschen.de/)", the folks building the parade floats(*) did so in 1:3 scale, and the parade will now get played out and broadcast on WDR as a stick puppet show (https://koelnerkarneval.de/der-kolner-rosenmontagszug-2021-findet-statt-als-puppenspiel-in-kooperation-mit-dem-hanneschen-theater/)!
It's being marketed as "der ausgefallenste Zoch (https://www.koeln.de/tourismus/karneval/highlights/rosenmontagszug_519031.html)" - a double entendre calling this year's parade the "most unusual" as well as the "most cancelled". :)) (It's downright Sigrunesque, isn't it?)
(*) BTW, for all the language nerds out there, the German terms for "hoarding" and "panic buying" are "to hamster(kaufe)n (https://koelnerkarneval.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/fk_persiflage_1.jpg)". 8)
Post by: Vulpes on February 07, 2021, 09:26:50 AM
Post by: Mirasol on February 07, 2021, 11:59:49 AM
Not in Cologne. The organizers teamed up with another currently-impeded pinnacle of local culture, the "Hänneschen-Theater (https://www.haenneschen.de/)", the folks building the parade floats(*) did so in 1:3 scale, and the parade will now get played out and broadcast on WDR as a stick puppet show (https://koelnerkarneval.de/der-kolner-rosenmontagszug-2021-findet-statt-als-puppenspiel-in-kooperation-mit-dem-hanneschen-theater/)!
It's being marketed as "der ausgefallenste Zoch (https://www.koeln.de/tourismus/karneval/highlights/rosenmontagszug_519031.html)" - a double entendre calling this year's parade the "most unusual" as well as the "most cancelled". :)) (It's downright Sigrunesque, isn't it?)
Oh, that reminds me of the video that went through the news the other day! It was from a family of carnival-fans who, to make up for the not-happening of parades this year, proceeded to build small parade-wagons from lego-bricks and filmed their own parade. I can´t find it right now, but apparently many people followed the example and made their own.
I´m almost tempted to make one too...
Post by: JoB on February 07, 2021, 12:37:15 PM
Oh, that reminds me of the video that went through the news the other day! It was from a family of carnival-fans who, to make up for the not-happening of parades this year, proceeded to build small parade-wagons from lego-bricks and filmed their own parade. I can´t find it right now, but apparently many people followed the example and made their own.Rondorf (https://www.ksta.de/koeln/zwei-wochen-gebastelt-koelner-familie-baut-karnevalszug-aus-lego---video-wird-zum-hit-37995824)? Niederzier/Düren (https://www.aachener-zeitung.de/lokales/dueren/dann-faehrt-das-dreigestirn-halt-durchs-wohnzimmer_aid-56028277)? By now, organizers in Goch (https://www.rzk-goch.de/index.php/rosenmontag) and Rietberg (https://www.wa.de/leben/so-zieht-der-karnevalszug-durchs-kinderzimmer-zr-90192978.html) have called for competitions for the best Lego etc. built parade video ...
Post by: Mirasol on February 07, 2021, 12:45:38 PM
Post by: Jitter on February 07, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
https://www.vau.fi/ajankohtaista/linnan-juhlat-2020-nukkeversio-tuo-tunnelman-joka-kotiin-aanesta-oma-suosikkipukusi/
Post by: JoB on February 08, 2021, 05:08:01 AM
I think it was the one from the first link you sent, but there aren´t any pictures, so I´m not sure.... there's an entire video on top of the page (https://www.ksta.de/koeln/zwei-wochen-gebastelt-koelner-familie-baut-karnevalszug-aus-lego---video-wird-zum-hit-37995824) for me, but it does take a moment to load ...
(there’s handshakes)Yeah, I can see how that would be worth a televised documentary in Finland ... :3
the dresses on the dolls are individually designed and sewn from formal dress materials.I can believe that when I look at the men's suits, the fabric has a structure that looks very coarse in those small suits, but if those pearls (https://www.vau.fi/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/helen3-684x1024.jpg) and paillettes (https://www.vau.fi/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/peppi-684x1024.jpg) really are the same size they would use for actual dresses, It'd take a lot of mystery out of the price tags ... :o
Post by: Mirasol on February 08, 2021, 10:35:13 AM
... there's an entire video on top of the page (https://www.ksta.de/koeln/zwei-wochen-gebastelt-koelner-familie-baut-karnevalszug-aus-lego---video-wird-zum-hit-37995824) for me, but it does take a moment to load ...
Oh, my bad, my internet had a bit of a hiccup yesterday so it never loaded... ^^" But I checked it out again, yes, it is the one they showed on the news.
Oh Jitter, that is such a cool idea too! And the clothes look amazing! (note to self: try sewing a ballgown for one of your barbies...)
Post by: Jitter on February 08, 2021, 11:58:40 AM
Mirasol, in case your gown doesn’t come as lovely as these, keep in mind that these were made by professional dressmakers. Although they are mostly professionals of bigger clothes :) They do have great eye for detail, to be able to use materials meant for full size dresses to such great effect in tiny gowns as well!
Post by: JoB on February 08, 2021, 02:53:51 PM
Haha JoB, the point is that the handshakes take a very long time. The poor president and their spouse need to shake hands with about 1800 people.... new headcanon: This tradition came to be when the back-then president had to quick-fix the problem that his dining hall would seat only one third of the people that had been invited ...
Seriously, with the guests standing as far apart in line as the Barbie Queue version suggests - which is perfectly believable, considering that everyone wants the camera to have an unobscured view of their dress -, and assuming that it's a faux pas to use both hands to shake with POTUS and FLOTUS(*) at once, I'd guess that the throughput is limited to six seconds for a single guest, and eight for a couple. Times 1800 guests, and assuming that they're mostly coming in
Spoiler: (*) • show
Post by: Annuil on February 08, 2021, 03:07:54 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkgxSDLW/87946996-FCA8-43-A7-AD0-C-49-B6-E8-C6767-E.jpg)
It took me a month to make (not without several moments of despair when I wanted to throw everything into the trash and cry a river of tears) and it’s actually a jointed doll made from scratch out of polymer clay.
So he can pose. Not super well, because I am bad at forming good joints. After making hands making clothing is the hardest things, because they usually don’t fit from the first time and have to be redone. But shoes are the worst. Usually I don’t feel the tips of my fingers after I make shoes for a doll, because they are covered with super-glue :'D
Here are a few more pics, closeups on the clothing and the joints:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsSnHPIBASO_wC5aR-gNhY1hDd4d
(Easier to share with a Dropbox link)
Seriously, with the guests standing as far apart in line as the Barbie Queue version suggests - which is perfectly believable, considering that everyone wants the camera to have an unobscured view of their dress -, and assuming that it's a faux pas to use both hands to shake with POTUS and FLOTUS(*) at once, I'd guess that the throughput is limited to six seconds for a single guest, and eight for a couple. Times 1800 guests, and assuming that they're mostly coming inAlso, everyone can wear gloves! I mean, even regular leather gloves could work, if people didn’t sneeze into them :'DShivanesque Siamese Shapespairs, gives a minimum of four hours of defilée ...Spoiler: (*) • show
Post by: Jitter on February 08, 2021, 05:16:58 PM
JoB, usually the guests stand close to each other except at the actual handshake, which takes place in a room with a balcony, so the TV cameras get good view :) The greeting takes about two hours, the guests are encouraged to say just their name and nothing else. The presidential couple take one break during it.
Post by: thegreyarea on February 08, 2021, 07:08:24 PM
Jitter, I thought that our version, when the whole government (including ministers and their direct aides, about 60 or 70 people) presents itself to the President, was already quite long...
Post by: moredhel on February 08, 2021, 11:22:53 PM
Oh, wow, Jitter, those are sooo cool! XoX And so tiny! The smallest clothing I have ever done was for a 12-centimeter doll of one of my characters, that I made as a Christmas present for my sister (she is my biggest fan).Very impressive, sonds like a lot of diffcult work.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkgxSDLW/87946996-FCA8-43-A7-AD0-C-49-B6-E8-C6767-E.jpg)
It took me a month to make (not without several moments of despair when I wanted to throw everything into the trash and cry a river of tears) and it’s actually a jointed doll made from scratch out of polymer clay.
And it really looks great. Better than many dolls from the shop.
Post by: Mirasol on February 09, 2021, 09:06:31 AM
Spoiler: some pictures under the cut because I don´t want to steal Annuil´s spotlight • show
Post by: Annuil on February 09, 2021, 10:38:25 AM
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsSnHPIBASO_wDeEW8Yba8q0oRwd
They are a father and a son from my stories. (I’m still in the processes of making one other doll for myself but I get so tiered after I make one that I need a rest of a few months to be able to do another one :'D)
Woah, Annuil, I have made dollclothes and -accessories before (I know the pain with the superglued shoes...), but your entire doll is a completely different level! XoX And it looks amazing! Did you have a manual to follow or did you develop the shapes you needed yourself?Ooh, I love those, Mirasol! The little one in the fir coat looks so cute! :)) and the boots on the darker haired one are so good! XoX Did you make those?? And those bags, and books, and the lamp!.. looks really cool :DSpoiler: some pictures under the cut because I don´t want to steal Annuil´s spotlight • show
The question about the manual: I did read several web blogs on making polymer clay jointed dolls and also used one as a step-by-step instruction but it was for adult body, so I had to adjust it to fit my little guy (my toddler-cousins worked perfectly for being models). I had no idea on how to make joints so I needed some sort of a manual, but the characters themselves are fully designed by me. Here are pics on the joints and some movements (warning, naked (not detailed) or headless dolls might look a little weird):
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsSnHPIBASO_wDKy8ss-3m54mmTL
Post by: Mirasol on February 09, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
Thank you, guys! It did take a lot of my patience but my sister loved him too, so the suffering was compensated. He was actually an addition to the doll I made for her birthday in August. That was a little easier to make since it was like three times bigger. Here are a few pics:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsSnHPIBASO_wDeEW8Yba8q0oRwd
They are a father and a son from my stories. (I’m still in the processes of making one other doll for myself but I get so tiered after I make one that I need a rest of a few months to be able to do another one :'D)
Oh, that one looks really cool too! I like the little gemstone-details. I used similar ones for the belt of my dark-haired doll. :)) What material did you make his shoes from? They look almost like real leather-boots!
But understandable that you need a break. It seems like a real lot of work!
Ooh, I love those, Mirasol! The little one in the fir coat looks so cute! :)) and the boots on the darker haired one are so good! XoX Did you make those?? And those bags, and books, and the lamp!.. looks really cool :D
Thank you! Yes, I made all the accessories myself. In the case of the boots, (Also the lamp, shield and skull-mask) I made them from... uh... this foam-stuff... this (https://www.eusmile.com/items/OT00951/5.jpg). You can heat it a bit with a candle (not too much, or it will catch fire...), then you can form it and it keeps shape. Mostly. Superglue helps. :'D Then I painted it with Acrylics. For the books, there´s a really cool doll-sized book-binding-tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKHQSoY5KM&list=PLwf5az3O7M4c4UbZ3mWdCjGAKHgpBL8Nc&index=2) on Youtube, you should check it out!
And thank you for the pictures of the joints and the work behind it! This is really interesting!
Post by: Annuil on February 09, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Oh, that one looks really cool too! I like the little gemstone-details. I used similar ones for the belt of my dark-haired doll. :)) What material did you make his shoes from? They look almost like real leather-boots!Gem-stones are the best. I didn't make mine, I bought them...
But understandable that you need a break. It seems like a real lot of work!
The boots are made from actual leather, yes ;) And so is scabbarth for his sword. There is also a tutorial on how to make shoes but sadly I don't know what it was named and it was in Russian, so, not very helpful... I used the main ideas from there, just to pick up the main shapes of the shoe.
The leather was pretty thin (I think it's called goat skin), I used thicker type for the bottoms.
I use weird materials sometimes, like for the scabbarth, its made of leather and aluminum foil (the little metallic-looking stripes on it). I also use ribbons to make the hair (the most amusing process). :'D Or for the little one's sword I used toothpicks.
Edit: pics on the shoes and on the scabbath:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsSnHPIBASO_wEGm7ffE4FKA8GkS
Thank you! Yes, I made all the accessories myself. In the case of the boots, (Also the lamp, shield and skull-mask) I made them from... uh... this foam-stuff... this (https://www.eusmile.com/items/OT00951/5.jpg). You can heat it a bit with a candle (not too much, or it will catch fire...), then you can form it and it keeps shape. Mostly. Superglue helps. :'D Then I painted it with Acrylics. For the books, there´s a really cool doll-sized book-binding-tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKHQSoY5KM&list=PLwf5az3O7M4c4UbZ3mWdCjGAKHgpBL8Nc&index=2) on Youtube, you should check it out!
And thank you for the pictures of the joints and the work behind it! This is really interesting!
O-oh, that is super interesting, I need to look into that foam thing, it can make so many things way easier... Thank you for the links! ;D I will definitely use them one day!
You're welcome! I'm glad I could share this! :emil:
Post by: Mirasol on February 10, 2021, 08:08:51 AM
Gem-stones are the best. I didn't make mine, I bought them...
Agreed. Though I didn´t really "make" mine either, I´m afraid. I salvaged them from an old necklace and sewed them together. I couldn´t figure out how to make something like that from absolute scratch. ^^"
The boots are made from actual leather, yes ;) And so is scabbarth for his sword. There is also a tutorial on how to make shoes but sadly I don't know what it was named and it was in Russian, so, not very helpful... I used the main ideas from there, just to pick up the main shapes of the shoe.
The leather was pretty thin (I think it's called goat skin), I used thicker type for the bottoms.
I use weird materials sometimes, like for the scabbarth, its made of leather and aluminum foil (the little metallic-looking stripes on it). I also use ribbons to make the hair (the most amusing process). :'D Or for the little one's sword I used toothpicks.
Edit: pics on the shoes and on the scab bath:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsSnHPIBASO_wEGm7ffE4FKA8GkS
O-oh, that is super interesting, I need to look into that foam thing, it can make so many things way easier... Thank you for the links! ;D I will definitely use them one day!
Interesting! I didn´t know leather could be this thin. It definitly turned out really good.
Weird materials are the best part! :)) Basically all the tiny ribbons I used in the three outfits are those that are on new (human-)shirts to make them stay on their clothing-hangers. And the pants of the doll in the middle originated as a pair of socks. I haven´t thought about using tinfoil so far... Hm... *mind whirring*
As for the hair, do you mean yarn? I´ve only heard of a method for making dollhair from yarn before. There´s one involving ribbons? :o
And glad I could be of help with the links! :reynir:
Post by: wavewright62 on February 10, 2021, 02:23:35 PM
Post by: Annuil on February 10, 2021, 04:08:52 PM
Agreed. Though I didn´t really "make" mine either, I´m afraid. I salvaged them from an old necklace and sewed them together. I couldn´t figure out how to make something like that from absolute scratch. ^^"Phaha, yes, mine also were supposed to be part of a necklace :'D
Interesting! I didn´t know leather could be this thin. It definitly turned out really good.O-oh! I never even thought of using those ribbons and those would fit perfectly for such tiny things XoX
Weird materials are the best part! :)) Basically all the tiny ribbons I used in the three outfits are those that are on new (human-)shirts to make them stay on their clothing-hangers. And the pants of the doll in the middle originated as a pair of socks. I haven´t thought about using tinfoil so far... Hm... *mind whirring*
As for the hair, do you mean yarn? I´ve only heard of a method for making dollhair from yarn before. There´s one involving ribbons? :o
No, I actually do mean ribbons, let me explain it under a spoiler:
Spoiler: show
Also, thanks, wave!
Post by: Vulpes on February 10, 2021, 07:49:19 PM
That ribbon-for-hair trick is brilliant!
Both you and Mirasol must have far more delicate fingers and more patience than I have - making tiny clothes look decent is so hard. My mother made a few dolls of various sizes, and cursed her materials when they wouldn't behave. I love all the tricks you're both using to achieve the effect you want - so creative, and the problem-solving must be a lot of fun.
Post by: Jitter on February 11, 2021, 01:53:58 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/5kWOnem.png)
Post by: Mirasol on February 11, 2021, 07:27:25 AM
O-oh! I never even thought of using those ribbons and those would fit perfectly for such tiny things XoX
They do! They are exactly the right size, easy to keep from fraying by burning the ends and come in all kinds of colors! (As long as you wear very colorful clothing, that is...)
No, I actually do mean ribbons, let me explain it under a spoiler:Spoiler: show
Oh, cool! This method seems pretty similar to the yarn-method, minus having to glue them together to make the streaks. Yes, this is very helpful! :reynir:
Thank you everyone! :))
Vulpes, I actually usually find it easier to work on a smaller scale. Better for figuring out what parts you need. However, I once sewed a school-uniform for a 6cm cat-figurine, that was a nightmare! It was so little fabric that my sewing-mashine kept on sucking it in. >:( I will definitly not do that again...
Post by: Annuil on February 11, 2021, 07:38:35 AM
They do! They are exactly the right size, easy to keep from fraying by burning the ends and come in all kinds of colors! (As long as you wear very colorful clothing, that is...)Yes, and usually those colors are quite unusual ;)
Oh, cool! This method seems pretty similar to the yarn-method, minus having to glue them together to make the streaks. Yes, this is very helpful! :reynir:Yay! I helped! :reynir:
Yes, the cool thing about ribbons is that it’s shiny in a way and the hair turns out to be super soft and silky ;D and shines like real hair. But you don’t have to buy that artificial hair that they make for creating dolls and you can pick any color of ribbon you want ;)
Vulpes, I actually usually find it easier to work on a smaller scale. Better for figuring out what parts you need. However, I once sewed a school-uniform for a 6cm cat-figurine, that was a nightmare! It was so little fabric that my sewing-mashine kept on sucking it in. >:( I will definitly not do that again...
Ahah, I had the same problem with the clothing for the little guy I made, so I had to sew it a by hand O_O
Post by: Vulpes on February 11, 2021, 10:07:48 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on February 11, 2021, 02:39:22 PM
Then they will also have the required QR code for Ministry contact tracing posted, but that is not mandatory.
On a less happy note, the strain is starting to show in our managed quarantine system, with nurses and cleaners in particular experiencing staffing shortages and lack of hazard pay or overtime. Combined with a lack of a firm timeline for vaccination, many warn that it's a matter of time before our luck runs out.
Post by: Vulpes on February 11, 2021, 06:46:15 PM
I will be totally unsurprised if a bunch of cases turn up in other parts of the province tomorrow, poll workers refuse to show up, and legislation be damned, the whole thing gets delayed.
Well, at least it's entertaining...
Post by: Yastreb on February 12, 2021, 03:34:03 AM
Post by: Róisín on February 12, 2021, 03:39:41 AM
Post by: Maglor on February 12, 2021, 04:51:23 AM
That shit got my father. He was simply too old to hadle it. Sad.
Post by: RanVor on February 12, 2021, 05:54:56 AM
Wouldn't like to weight you with my problems, but since everyone is sharing...If we minded, we wouldn't have an entire thread (https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=384.0) dedicated to dumping our problems onto others.
Post by: Mirasol on February 12, 2021, 06:35:37 AM
Post by: Jitter on February 12, 2021, 06:53:34 AM
The forum exists both to discuss things SSSS and to give us a community, for some of us maybe even a family of sorts. Sharing about such things, and getting emotional support from each other is exactly what these threads are about. You did right to share, if it feels right for you!
Post by: Róisín on February 12, 2021, 07:21:19 AM
Post by: Maglor on February 12, 2021, 08:17:27 AM
Post by: Annuil on February 12, 2021, 08:39:33 AM
Post by: Yastreb on February 12, 2021, 09:00:38 AM
Post by: thorny on February 12, 2021, 09:50:49 AM
Post by: midwestmutt on February 12, 2021, 10:04:48 AM
Post by: Vulpes on February 12, 2021, 10:12:19 AM
Post by: Lallicat on February 12, 2021, 10:18:58 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on February 12, 2021, 07:22:07 PM
Meanwhile in Portugal we renewed our lockdown for another 15 days, and the perspective is to stay that way until the end of March. It's hard, but it's working. In less than a month we went from 15000+ new cases each day to 5000-4000, and with that saved our NHS from imminent rupture. It was too close, and most people don't want to even discuss the easing of restrictions before the middle of March. Our problems skyrocketed with Christmas and no one wants to repeat that on Easter (that has similar social relevance in Portugal), particularly our health personal that really needs a break to recover, and while hospitals are still flooded with patients because there's a two/three weeks delay between reducing cases and the subsequent reduction in hospitalizations...
Luckily nobody in my family was infected, and I hope it will remain that way. Sadly the vaccination program is too slow, mostly because the number of vaccines delivered is way under expected. But anyway we are much better than in the end of January.
Post by: Keep Looking on February 13, 2021, 01:19:02 AM
Post by: Vulpes on February 13, 2021, 11:32:45 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on February 13, 2021, 12:45:43 PM
Post by: Róisín on February 14, 2021, 02:31:07 AM
Australia has in general managed pretty well, but there have been a few worrying developments lately, notably the discovery that several of the recent outbreaks have stemmed from people who caught the disease either while in hotel quarantine, or while working in a quarantine hotel. Because the ventilation in hotels is generally lousy, certainly not medical grade, with all the rooms on a floor often being attached to the same ventilation ducts. Cheaper that way. So the virus has both spread from infected to uninfected people housed on the same floor through the air conditioning, or from staff delivering food opening a door to a room and having air containing an ærosol of infectious material puff out into the corridor. And in one recent case, because of a guest using a nebuliser in their room for medical reasons. The nebuliser created an ærosol containing virus particles which drifted out of their room. Worrying.
Makes you feel a certain sympathy for those folk who resisted hotel quarantine, early on, because they considered that it raised the chances of the uninfected getting infected while quarantined. But there is nowhere near enough protective gear for all staff, and as the ventilation is not medical-grade this was inevitable sooner or later.
I am reminded of the early days of research into Lassa Fever, another disease which could spread both by contact and by ærosol. Fortunately somebody realised that the disease was in the ærosol of rat urine from the experimental lab rats infected with Lassa Fever before too much got vented from the air conditioning outlet of a CDC lab into the streets of New York.
I do hope that this gets sorted out soon. It was a mistake to put hotel quarantine in the hands of private security firms in the first place, would likely have worked better with medical and military personnel in charge of quarantine in the first place. But politics and profit......
Post by: JoB on February 16, 2021, 03:58:29 AM
Edit 2: Turns out that both "OP-Maske" and "medizinische Maske" are tied to EU norm EN 14683 (https://www.bfarm.de/SharedDocs/Risikoinformationen/Medizinprodukte/DE/schutzmasken.html) (with rumors of "only class 3 thereof"), which doesn't necessarily appear on the mask itself beyond a bare CE sign (which has much lower requirements IIUC). See vendor's descriptions, and use of forgery blacklists (https://www.tuv.com/germany/de/schwarze-liste/index.jsp) might well be advisable ...P.S.: Grabbed a 50-pack of "EN14683:2019+AC:2019 Type IIR" masks, a.k.a. "medical masks", yesterday as I came across them. There's absolutely nothing on the masks themselves, not even the general CE logo, that would allow someone to tell those from the entirely non-certified masks I already had a 50-pack of. (It's all stated on the packaging alone.) Enforcing the requirement that everyone walking into a shop must wear the former (or FFP2), not the latter, sounds more and more like a job for some specialists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Cops).
Post by: thegreyarea on February 16, 2021, 07:28:54 AM
P.S.: Grabbed a 50-pack of "EN14683:2019+AC:2019 Type IIR" masks, a.k.a. "medical masks", yesterday as I came across them. There's absolutely nothing on the masks themselves, not even the general CE logo, that would allow someone to tell those from the entirely non-certified masks I already had a 50-pack of. (It's all stated on the packaging alone.) Enforcing the requirement that everyone walking into a shop must wear the former (or FFP2), not the latter, sounds more and more like a job for some specialists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Cops).Wait, you guys actually think on how to enforce requirements? Portuguese authorities usually let that part for later, when it's time to replace the obsolete requirement for a new one...
Post by: moredhel on February 16, 2021, 08:29:28 AM
Post by: Annuil on February 16, 2021, 02:01:42 PM
Post by: JoB on February 16, 2021, 04:49:01 PM
Wait, you guys actually think on how to enforce requirements? Portuguese authorities usually let that part for later, when it's time to replace the obsolete requirement for a new one...Oh, I'm not saying that the German authorities do not seem to be doing just that. But there's a twist to those thoughts: Legislation that declares something a misdemeanor but fails to threaten it with actual punishment - and IIUC plain unenforcability qualifies here - is to be ruled null and void when challenged in court ...
Well some requirements are enforced and some not. It differs from state to state (and we have 16 of them). The actual enforment is in the responsibility of the states, and in some cases of the municipality. So sometimes you just have to go one or two kilometers to get a different law enforcement.To be fair, the beforehand passing of all this legalese is up to the states, too, at least so far; if it all were a federal matter, the regulations wouldn't look so disparate from one state to the next in the first place. The Bund-Länder-Beratungen are not a legislative organ - actually, not an official organ of anything.
Post by: Yastreb on February 17, 2021, 06:56:46 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-17/victorias-coronavirus-restrictions-update-explained/13163304?nw=0 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-17/victorias-coronavirus-restrictions-update-explained/13163304?nw=0)
Post by: Róisín on February 17, 2021, 08:04:56 AM
We were over at Mount Barker today, seeing Star’s wound care specialist and doing some catchup shopping, and I was surprised how much it surprised the hospital staff when we used the Covid checkin app and were actually careful about distancing and hygiene protocol. I gather that doesn’t happen much there. I guess they will be seeing us often, because Star has three appointments a week there for the next month while they experiment with a new kind of pressure dressings for his legs. It always makes me nervous to be around a hospital so much during a pandemic, let’s hope the risk turns out worthwhile.
Post by: thegreyarea on February 17, 2021, 10:51:18 AM
We were over at Mount Barker today, seeing Star’s wound care specialist and doing some catchup shopping, and I was surprised how much it surprised the hospital staff when we used the Covid checkin app and were actually careful about distancing and hygiene protocol. I gather that doesn’t happen much there. I guess they will be seeing us often, because Star has three appointments a week there for the next month while they experiment with a new kind of pressure dressings for his legs. It always makes me nervous to be around a hospital so much during a pandemic, let’s hope the risk turns out worthwhile.Yes, it must be very stressing to be forced to go there, and so many times! But if it has to be this way... Luckily your numbers in AUS are quite low. Please stay as safe as possible, and tell Star I sent a hug to him.
Our numbers in Portugal have been dropping straight, and we're now below the averages from October-November, much much better than January's insane peak. :)
Still on lockdown for another month, anyway...
Post by: wavewright62 on February 17, 2021, 03:00:26 PM
Post by: Róisín on February 17, 2021, 06:23:44 PM
Post by: Lenny on February 19, 2021, 02:14:00 PM
Other than that vaccinations are steadily happening and numbers are dropping, but we're not out of the woods yet, and there isn't any indication of when we will be. Still in lockdown (which started at the beginning of November) until 2nd of March at least, all non-essential stores have been closed for weeks, and the current numbers are similar to the level of November last year (between 4000-5000 infections per day).
Everyone's getting a bit stir-crazy. I'm as introverted as they come, and that's not a good thing - this lockdown has made it so I want even less human interaction than normal, but at the same time want to do huge group events with everyone possible. In turn that also means that I've been acting horribly anti-social the very few times I have seen someone other than my spouse, because that interaction is forced to be one on one (only one visitor total allowed per day), which makes me want to see people even less. It's like slowly watching my socialisation skills float down the drain... this really isn't all that healthy. And after being pretty much completely alone during the first lockdown last year, I'm extremely sympathetic to all the many people stuck on their own for months. Students and young people in their 20s and 30s are being hit especially hard with that over here. I'm extremely lucky to have two kittens and my spouse this time around.
Post by: Groupoid on February 19, 2021, 04:39:42 PM
Here in Switzerland, the politicians talk about lifting some restrictions at the start of march, but nothing definitive yet. They talk about allowing gatherings outdoors of up to 15 people. (The limit in- & outdoors is 5 since November/December) And maybe some non-essential stores may open up again. At least we had less than 200 confirmed cases per 100'000 inhabitants over the last week. This is about as much as we had during the first wave, but now we’re testing much more than during the first wave. So lifting some restrictions doesn’t seem unreasonable. Source: FOPH (https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/overview)
It’s been such a drag, since university moved to online-lectures in October. To me it didn’t make a lot of a difference when major restrictions were enforced. "Taking away" university and the cafeteria hurts the most. The other restrictions not much. I didn’t meet a lot of people outside of uni. Alas, the heads of the university said they wouldn’t allow lectures in-person before April.
Post by: Lenny on February 22, 2021, 04:51:50 AM
There really needs to be some kind of bone given to students and the younger part of the workforce, though. Mentally it's going down, hard, and alarms are being pulled from multiple sources. Also fun, there's an election in March, so everything's turning political, too *sigh*
Post by: Mirasol on February 22, 2021, 12:49:03 PM
We have a similar situation now. Hairdressers open in march, also partly because haircuts started getting sold on the black market... Haircuts of all things...
I actually had school again today! I saw some of my friends again for the first time in weeks, which was great. Of course with masks.
Other than that, the system is kinda weird... On some days both the classes graduating this year and next year have full class at school, on other days nobody does. And then the schedule gets switched every week??? And again every teacher basically has their own keeping-distance-system. Apparently there are no official rules for that.
Not to mention that the delays pushed my finals in a very strange spot... We still write classtests until two weeks before (where usually from what I got, we shouldn´t even have school to have time to study. And that´s already the better version from where we originally were still supposed to write tests in the week before finals. Where we usually also aren´t supposed to have school. But luckily we got the teachers to change that. At least the test-part.) and afterwards. Our last exams are in the week before the summerholidays. This is going to be... interesting.
Post by: midwestmutt on February 23, 2021, 10:23:33 AM
Post by: Jitter on February 26, 2021, 09:43:19 AM
On the one hand, this week was the first winter holiday week for schools in southern Finland (the winter holiday is one week but they are phased over a three-week period) and Lapland is packed. Apparently many of the holiday makers do keep distance for example when queuing to the ski lifts, but there are bound to be situations where there is no sufficient space between people. Many cook in their own accommodation, but many also go to the restaurants. Also the travel is a contagion risk, even when traveling by car they have to stop to eat, have coffee and pee, several times over the 1000 km drive. As we have the variant viruses here in the south (mostly the British variant), the holidays are now making sure it gets evenly distributed all over the country.
On the other, the government has declared a state of emergency and stricter restrictions are being rolled out. We are not going into an actual lockdown, but indoor public spaces will be closed. Even restaurants and bars will close for three weeks starting 8. March. I say “even”, because it’s apparently been very hard to close private businesses, so bars have been open since the previous state of emergency was ended last spring. This has raised a lot of criticism, as young people im secondary education have been on distance learning for months, hobbies are closed, yet bars stay open.
The three upper years of comprehensive school (we have 9 yrs mandatory school, 6 yrs of which is “lower” and 3 yrs “upper) will go back to distance learning also from March 8. In other words my kid goes to school for a week to gather the bugs classmates have collected in Lapland...
Vaccinations are under way, but like everywhere they are going slow. However as the Astra-Zeneca vaccine is not recommended for over 70 year olds, people who are younger but have elevated risk due a medical condition are being vaccinated as a parallel stream to the old people who are getting either the Pfizer or Modena shots. So, I have a vaccination booked for next week, which will be a little relief. (I have diabetes 2 which puts me in the first medical risk group).
Cases and hospitalizations are surging. I really do hope the closures will help, or we’ll be in deep trouble!
Post by: midwestmutt on February 26, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Post by: Jitter on February 26, 2021, 06:16:12 PM
Also the state of emergency will be declared on Monday. I don’t know how wise it is to give advance warning, as this likeky results in some people going out specifically because they still can...
I also had another test taken today, so far the results aren’t in.
Post by: midwestmutt on February 27, 2021, 09:29:46 AM
Post by: thegreyarea on February 27, 2021, 04:22:23 PM
I got the Moderna vaccine 1st shot yesterday. I woke up a couple of times feeling quite warm and needed to move around a bit to loosen up some muscle aches. This morning I feel OK. I'm from the old school of medicine and expect a remedy to taste or hurt a bit to be effective.That's great midwestmutt! We have a say that goes like: Remedy that burns, cures.
My mother also got her 1st shot a few days ago. She had the Pfizer one, but complained exactly the same, and is fine now. :)
Jitter, I hope the result comes negative. Don't forget to tell us!
I also hope things don't go downhill. As for your boys, remember that usualy they have more contact when coming or going to school than inside, so reinforcing the precautions thay should have when they are with their coleagues would be a good idea.
In Portugal things a way better, but no one want's to risk another surge, so we are staying on lockdown until Easter, and I think it's the best choice.
Post by: Jitter on February 27, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
For me and my family the restrictions haven’t been too bad, we have each other and the dogs for company, as well as you guys (this community is a HUGE thing in times like these!) but things such as health appointments left undone isn’t nice!
Grey, my son walks to school so it’s mainly in there that puts him at risk. At least they are wearing masks now!
Post by: Grade E cat on March 16, 2021, 04:13:12 PM
Post by: Jitter on March 16, 2021, 04:52:52 PM
We are renovating a house, and it’s been a bother that my hubby hasn’t been able to go there at the same time as the builders (we are actually not in quarantine, just the one son who was exposed, but we want to be very careful), but now after the second test on my son he intends to go there tomorrow again. If the lockdown does happen, it may allow the builders to come in anyways as they can’t work remotely (and there’s only two of them), but it might also mean they aren’t allowed to come in. We’ll have to wait and see.
There are many people who are raging about how the government should make masks mandatory (difficult for legal reasons) and others, who are raging about being told to wear a mask. Obviously we can’t expect people to take responsibility, no, the prime minister must come to hold their hand and tell they must behave and wear the masks.
I’m fed up with the virus and the restrictions, but I’m a lot more fed up with people!
Post by: moredhel on March 16, 2021, 05:03:12 PM
My wife the kids and me are all in a high risk group. Dangerous times are coming for us.
Post by: Grade E cat on March 18, 2021, 04:03:27 PM
Post by: Róisín on March 19, 2021, 02:22:03 AM
But because most people except for a few idiots and some rich entitled tourists actually cooperated with the restrictions, washed their hands, wore masks and did the social distancing thing, life here is beginning to slowly open up again. The Mediæval Fairs are happening again, and other social and community events, and bits of work are coming back here and there. We are poorer and sometimes having a rough time but that is easier to remedy than is being dead of Covid. I don’t think people were quite careful enough around the Adelaide Festival of Arts recently, we have had new Covid readings in sewage samples down in the city, but things are still hopeful.
Cat and moredhel, I very much hope things get better where you are. And Jitter, I hope that your family has dodged the bullet. It is doubly terrifying when people close to you are in danger.
Post by: Yastreb on April 04, 2021, 02:43:43 AM
Meanwhile, with cases cropping up in Queensland and New South Wales in the past fornight, including some with the UK strain, and now new cases in South Australia, possibly the South African strain, I'm left wondering when the nect lockdown will be declared.
But until then, life goes on, and for now, it's pretty good (but that's for a different thread).
Post by: Opaque on April 04, 2021, 10:04:30 AM
So sorry. This is just a lot of complaining.
Please stay as safe as you can. Especially high risk people. We've a long way to go before were out of the wood.
Post by: Vulpes on April 04, 2021, 10:26:07 AM
So sorry. This is just a lot of complaining.
No worries, that's what this thread is for! ;D
I've been so lucky to be on an island with tight restrictions and low infection rates. We had a brief lockdown when the B117 variant started spreading in the community (and that community is 700 km from mine), but that's over and we're down to maybe 3 active cases province-wide. Vaccination is proceeding - my SO just got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine. Not sure when my turn will be, but they're talking about everyone having at least one dose by sometime in the summer. I'm not a really sociable person, but I am looking forward to getting together with the odd friend without having to try to stay two arm-lengths apart.
Keep distancing and hand-washing, we'll get through this eventually!
Post by: Annuil on April 05, 2021, 11:48:47 PM
Keep distancing and hand-washing, we'll get through this eventually!Yep, as I said some time ago, stand still and stay silent behind your mask and may the virus pass by you without noticing ;) :reynir:
Post by: Vulpes on April 06, 2021, 01:30:38 PM
Yep, as I said some time ago, stand still and stay silent behind your mask and may the virus pass by you without noticing ;) :reynir:
:'D So true.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 07, 2021, 01:30:15 AM
Post by: Keep Looking on April 07, 2021, 04:42:26 AM
New Zealand is going to open a travel bubble with Australia in two weeks' time, and Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa in early May, therefore freeing up many spaces reserved in managed isolation over the next few months. (Currently everyone entering the country must go to a managed isolation hotel for two weeks, no exceptions.) Specifics are being ironed out.
Oh, wow, I actually didn't know about that! I mean, you get much less people going back and forth between Western Australia and New Zealand and the Pacific islands than you do other states, as we're much further away, so it makes sense that the news here would focus less on it. Still, that's definitely good news!
Post by: Róisín on April 07, 2021, 07:16:35 AM
Post by: thorny on April 07, 2021, 11:19:53 AM
And Star came home from hospital this morning, in time for Yastreb to visit with him too
So very glad to see that!
Here in New York State vaccination numbers are rising, though there's concern both about increase in hospitalizations and about vaccine refusers. I'm starting to hear from fully-vaccinated friends asking am I vaccinated also (yes!) and can we set up a visit? (soon, I'm almost through the waiting period.) But there are still a lot more people not vaccinated than vaccinated.
Post by: wavewright62 on April 09, 2021, 06:41:34 AM
Post by: Róisín on April 09, 2021, 11:47:49 AM
Post by: JoB on May 16, 2021, 05:56:32 AM
(Of course, the fact that the current vaccines haven't been developed with the booming new mutant strains for their target might still muddy the scrying pool somewhat.)
Immunity due to an overcome infection has been shown to remain somewhere between weeks and a couple months IIRC, so I guess we're looking at people falling back to a "clean [i.e., vulnerable] slate" yearly or half-yearly in any case. (Except for those suffering from a case of "long CoViD", of course.)
Post by: thorny on May 16, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
It seems that there's finally some data published about how long CoViD-19 vaccinations last before they'll have to be refreshed ("boosted").
"Finally"?
They can't possibly have data from before the vaccine trials expanded to enough people to produce it; and data produced once the vaccines became available to more than just the people in the trials is going to be better than the data from the limited number in the trials. And that was only a few months ago -- so, at most, they know whether the vaccine's good for that long. (Which it seems to be.) When it's been a year, then they'll know whether it's good for a year (variants aside.) And so on. But they can't possibly know whether it's good for a year, or longer, until it's been out for a year, or longer.
Post by: Vulpes on May 16, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
<snip> ...the (federal) government passed legalese that effectively labels vaccination-induced immunity as eternal... <snip>
:o
That's on a par with the legislation proposed in Indiana in 1897 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill) that declared the value of pi to be 3.2! (That's how it's portrayed, the truth is more subtle and weird, see link.)
Post by: JoB on May 16, 2021, 04:40:49 PM
"Finally"?That would be the case if immunity were just a binary variable; wait 'til it flips from "yes" to "no", then you know how long it takes until the flip. But actually, when you want to positively know whether someone has "immunity", vaccine induced or not, you take a blood sample, determine the amount of counteragents against CoViD contained therein, and compare it to the level deemed "sufficient" for effective immunity. That blood titer is slowly decreasing over time, and apparently in predictive enough a manner that estimates of how long - as in, a range - immunity may last post infection were available pretty much the moment news broke about repeat infections being a thing at all.
They can't possibly have data from before the vaccine trials expanded to enough people to produce it; and data produced once the vaccines became available to more than just the people in the trials is going to be better than the data from the limited number in the trials. And that was only a few months ago -- so, at most, they know whether the vaccine's good for that long. (Which it seems to be.) When it's been a year, then they'll know whether it's good for a year (variants aside.) And so on. But they can't possibly know whether it's good for a year, or longer, until it's been out for a year, or longer.
Long term side effects of the vaccines (or the infection itself) are an area where you'd be justified to say "we'll know (only) when we see them", because we don't know what biochemical mechanisms to look at to see early signs of those.
That's on a par with the legislation proposed in Indiana in 1897 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill) that declared the value of pi to be 3.2! (That's how it's portrayed, the truth is more subtle and weird, see link.)Not quite, in all probability, it was an intentional omission due to the lack of a good estimate when the legalese was phrased. (While better estimates for π were available since ancient Greece; it's also called "Archimedes' constant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Polygon_approximation_era)" for a reason.) After all, an act saying that "proof of vaccination [as of whatever date] can be substituted for a negative test [not older than ...]" can simply be superseded by a newer version, and in Germany, legalese invalidating constitutional rights is required to have an explicit limited (to a couple weeks) lifetime in the first place.
Post by: thorny on May 16, 2021, 05:27:27 PM
That would be the case if immunity were just a binary variable; wait 'til it flips from "yes" to "no", then you know how long it takes until the flip. But actually, when you want to positively know whether someone has "immunity", vaccine induced or not, you take a blood sample, determine the amount of counteragents against CoViD contained therein, and compare it to the level deemed "sufficient" for effective immunity. That blood titer is slowly decreasing over time, and apparently in predictive enough a manner that estimates of how long - as in, a range - immunity may last post infection were available pretty much the moment news broke about repeat infections being a thing at all.
Thanks. Interesting info.
But how sure can they be about that predictive manner? Could immunity drop off at a given rate for a while, but then much faster or slower later on?
-- for an example from another field entirely, not because I think it's directly relevant which it isn't, but just to give an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about: in some species, seed viability drops off only slowly for a while, and then much faster -- germination may be great in year one, very good in year two, only moderately worse in year three -- but the seed's effectively dead in year four, when just extrapolating from the speed of earlier dropoff would lead you to expect that maybe half or more of it would sprout.
Post by: Vulpes on May 16, 2021, 06:48:56 PM
Could immunity drop off at a given rate for a while, but then much faster or slower later on?
-- for an example from another field entirely, not because I think it's directly relevant which it isn't, but just to give an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about: in some species, seed viability drops off only slowly for a while, and then much faster -- germination may be great in year one, very good in year two, only moderately worse in year three -- but the seed's effectively dead in year four, when just extrapolating from the speed of earlier dropoff would lead you to expect that maybe half or more of it would sprout.
Nice analogy, it may well work similarly with immunity. Also, I'm not sure that they really know how much a particular antibody titre adds up to effective protection, and whether a particular level prevents disease, prevents serious disease, lowers transmission... although admittedly I've been having trouble keeping up with it all. It's an incredibly fast-moving area of research, which doubtless frustrates politcians who really want certainty.
Post by: JoB on May 17, 2021, 02:01:46 AM
But how sure can they be about that predictive manner? Could immunity drop off at a given rate for a while, but then much faster or slower later on?I guess that that's where it comes really handy that the development at the failing end of the scale has already been observed, in those people whose lesser(!), actual-infection-induced titres eventually failed to prevent a second infection.
Also, I'm not sure that they really know how much a particular antibody titre adds up to effective protection, and whether a particular level prevents disease, prevents serious disease, lowers transmission... although admittedly I've been having trouble keeping up with it all.The existing vaccines never fully prevented infection, period. They're said to, in practice, prevent 90+% of ensuing disease, and a solid 100% of grave cases. "In practice" being the keyword here, because whether you get infected or not is not only a function of how high the level of antibodies in your blood is, but also of how high a load of viruses you were exposed to. Which is why, in terms of trying to stop the pandemic, a vaccine could be "good enough" even if it were not to prevent the disease in the vaccinated at all and "only" lowered the amount of new viruses the person exhales so as to infect the next guy.
It's an incredibly fast-moving area of research, which doubtless frustrates politcians who really want certainty.They say that the one talent that a manager needs is the ability to make reasonably good decisions in spite of uncertainty, so I don't know whether politicians really want certainty for themselves here ...
Speaking of ongoing research, apparently some of the pharma companies are busy trying to come up with a flu+CoViD combo vaccine, rumour being that it promises to be more effective than vaccinating against those separately. If CoViD vaccination would really happen to turn out to need yearly booster shots, same as flu vaccination, we'd stand a chance that in the long run, We The Humans will deal with CoViD in essentially the same way as we did with the flu before - vaccination drives every year, always seeing a certain number of cases and deaths happening nonetheless, but.
Post by: thorny on May 17, 2021, 08:27:00 AM
I guess that that's where it comes really handy that the development at the failing end of the scale has already been observed, in those people whose lesser(!), actual-infection-induced titres eventually failed to prevent a second infection.
Which, again, is information we at this point have for only a limited length of time; though admittedly a somewhat longer time than we have for the results of vaccination.
And I thought vaccination was supposed to provide better immunity than infection; so, if it's different in that way, do we know that it's the same in this way?
Post by: JoB on May 18, 2021, 03:15:30 AM
Which, again, is information we at this point have for only a limited length of timeYes, but it's about the stretch of time (where the titres fall below the "working" levels) that vaccine-induced immunity, in most cases, still has to get to, thus improving the forecast.
And I thought vaccination was supposed to provide better immunity than infection; so, if it's different in that way, do we know that it's the same in this way?Not sure I read that line correctly ... yes, vaccine-induced immunity is reportedly better in several aspects than one acquired through actual infection¹. How "good" the immunity is (and how long it'll probably last) is effectively measured in the form of the titre levels². Also, by that time, the actual vaccines - or, in the case of infection-acquired immunity, virtually all free-ranging viruses - have vanished from the body, so in any case, it's our same ol' immune system that's producing the antibodies, and slowly lowering the production rate over time. I suppose one can theorize that some heretofore unknown mechanism might cause that "unlearning" process to suddenly differ between post-vaxx and post-haxx cases, but it doesn't seem very likely to me ...
¹ And I'm not even talking about vaccination skipping the whole "being ill for days, weeks, months, or worse" or "risk of developing 'Long CoViD'" aspects here.
² That's still simplified, of course. The various vaccines each train one of a handful different parts of the entire immune system, which is one reason that experts think that combos of the vaccines available now might actually work even better than the current "pick one and stick to it", while an actual infection triggers all applicable ones, of course. At a price.
Post by: JoB on May 18, 2021, 08:09:49 AM
Spoiler: no pustulent pustules but still ... • show
Post by: Vulpes on May 18, 2021, 08:17:20 AM
From the pile of information one might rather not want to have (yet) ...Spoiler: no pustulent pustules but still ... • show
The title and summary are stellar examples of needlessly obscure technicalese, but the graphical abstract (https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/cms/attachment/4fe6dbb3-14e1-4fc1-bbfc-c3985e088431/fx1.jpg) is hilarious!
Post by: JoB on May 18, 2021, 04:03:28 PM
The title and summary are stellar examples of needlessly obscure technicaleseGotta admit that I probably wouldn't have noticed it, either, if not for the (German) layman's version (https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavirus/saeugetiere-nehmen-im-notfall-sauerstoff-ueber-darm-auf-17343371.html) in the quality press ...
Post by: catbirds on May 18, 2021, 04:56:26 PM
From the pile of information one might rather not want to have (yet) ...Spoiler: no pustulent pustules but still ... • show
Neat article! I think? I'm pleased to find out that they're using oxygen-rich liquid for research, not gas.
I want to ask if it's possible to breathe exclusively using this method, but that veers off the topic of COVID-19
Post by: Vulpes on May 18, 2021, 06:09:55 PM
Neat article! I think? I'm pleased to find out that they're using oxygen-rich liquid for research, not gas.
I want to ask if it's possible to breathe exclusively using this method, but that veers off the topic of COVID-19
You wouldn't wish to breathe this way regularly, would you? O_O
Back to the topic at hand - Newfoundland & Labrador at the moment has 83 active cases, and one area is under tighter restrictions to prevent community spread from a small cluster of cases. Most cases are related to travel, or close contacts of existing cases. Not quite half of people who are eligible have had at least one dose of vaccine. I feel fortunate to be in a place with so little of the disease, but I know that could change any time, and because it's not (currently) urgent, the pace of vaccinations has been slow, so if there is a wave of infection, there's nowhere near enough people even half-vaccinated to slow its spread. I hope people continue to follow the rules, and vaccinations pick up, because I would really, really like to not worry all summer. And then in September we're supposed to be back on campus teaching face-to-face... it'll be nice, but stressful!
Post by: JoB on May 20, 2021, 03:18:01 PM
I want to ask if it's possible to breathe exclusively using this method, but that veers off the topic of COVID-19How so? I agree that methods that require a circuit of perfluorocarbon are unlikely to be more mass-deployable than conventional O2 supply, breathing apparatuses, or even direct oxygenization of the blood (ECMO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extracorporeal_membrane_oxygenation)), and thus will not prove the end of the pandemic, but.
The article insists on calling the artificially induced problem state "(an experimental model of) respiratory failure", but offhand, I don't see any details on method or quantification of this "failure" ...
Post by: Yastreb on May 24, 2021, 10:13:39 PM
Post by: Róisín on May 25, 2021, 03:05:22 AM
On a happier note, Rhí and I went to visit Star in hospital today, he was glad to see us and has so far had no problems from his first vaccine shot. At least if he is one of the unlucky folk who develop clots he will be in a hospital when it happens. He is still waiting on the verdict of the wound care specialist as to when/if they let him out of hospital. He asked how you were doing, having heard of the outbreak in your area. Look after yourself!
Post by: Yastreb on May 25, 2021, 04:05:22 AM
I'll be getting my AstraZenica shot on Sunday most likely. Report to follow.
Post by: Yastreb on May 26, 2021, 09:56:18 PM
The premier issued this statement.
Quote
On the advice of our public health team, Victoria will move to circuit breaker restrictions from 11:59pm tonight. These settings will remain in place until 11:59pm on 3 June – but if we can end that sooner, we will.
As we've seen here, and across Australia, this kind of short, sharp action is effective in stopping this thing in its tracks.
Our public health experts’ prime concern: just how fast the B1.617.1 variant is moving.
Overseas, they haven’t been able to track how quickly this version of the virus can move. Here in Victoria, though, we’re seeing not only how quick it is – but how contagious it is too.
Our contract tracers are identifying and locking down first ring, second ring and third ring contacts within 24 hours. That’s faster than ever. And yet this variant is still moving faster.
The time between catching the virus and passing it on is tighter than ever. The ‘serial interval’ – how long it takes between the onset of symptoms in the first and secondary case – is in many cases just over a day.
And in just 24 hours, the number of cases has doubled.
It means that although these cases are all connected, this variant of the virus is making people more infectious, more quickly.
We’ve seen other countries come up against these variants and lose. Badly. Places like Taiwan that have gone from no or very low cases to skyrocketing numbers in the space of just days and weeks – and now are struggling to get it under control.
We also know our nation’s vaccine rollout has been slower than we’d hoped. And if more people were vaccinated, we might be facing a different set of circumstances. Sadly, were not.
If we make the wrong choice now, if we wait too long, if we hesitate too much, this thing will get away from us. And lives will be at risk.
It’s why from 11:59pm tonight, there will be five reasons to leave home:
Food and supplies. Authorised work. Care and caregiving. Exercise, for up to two hours and with one other person. And getting vaccinated.
Exercise and shopping will be limited to five kilometres from home. If there’s no shops in your 5km radius, you can travel to the ones closest to you. Shopping is also limited to one person per day, per household.
Face masks will also need to be worn inside and outdoors – everywhere except your own home.
Private and public gatherings will not be permitted, although visiting your intimate partner continues to be okay. Single person bubbles will also be allowed.
Childcare and kinder will remain open, but schools will need to close other than for the children of authorised workers and vulnerable kids.
Shops like supermarkets, food stores, bottle shops, banks, petrol stations and pharmacies will also remain open. Cafes and restaurants will be able to offer take-away only. Gyms, hairdressers, community facilities and entertainment venues will all close. Non-essential retail may only open for click and collect.
Hotels and accommodation can only stay open to support guests already staying onsite. No new bookings can be made – unless it’s for one a permitted purpose, like authorised work.
Advice on who can open, and who can’t, will be made available online ahead of directions coming into place – as will the full list of authorised workers and workplaces.
It’s clear – more than ever – this virus isn’t going away. And vaccines are the only way we’ll ever get back to normal.
Without full vaccination, this virus will just keep mutating – and just keep making its way back in.
To that end, from tomorrow and dependent upon supply from the Federal Government, all Victorians over the age of 40 will be eligible for the COVID-19 vaccine.
My message to those Victorians: if you’re eligible, get vaccinated. Make your plan today.
If someone you love is eligible, make a plan together.
Do it for yourself. Your family. Your friends. Your community. Whatever your motivation – please do it.
Because vaccination is our only real ticket out of this pandemic.[/size]
Post by: Tarnagh on May 26, 2021, 10:20:22 PM
I have a feeling that if I'm going to have a cookout with family this summer, I'd better get it done soon. I suspect we in the US are all going to be back to ... whatever you want to call what we did last year ... by the end of the summer.
Post by: Róisín on May 26, 2021, 10:24:16 PM
Post by: catbirds on May 26, 2021, 10:30:28 PM
Post by: Yastreb on May 27, 2021, 08:07:56 AM
Woah... I hope you stock up well for this lockdown
I promptly made a supply run and stocked up for the week ahead. Now to work out how to cope with the onslaught of le cafard...
Post by: Róisín on May 27, 2021, 05:58:34 PM
Post by: Yastreb on June 02, 2021, 03:07:49 AM
Róisín, sadly the cat went home a while ago. Too bad, huh.
Post by: Yastreb on June 05, 2021, 09:43:52 AM
But in the midst of it all, anti-lockdowners and anti-vaxxers found the time and energy to try a rally to block access to vaccination sites, although they were "moved on."
Post by: Opaque on June 05, 2021, 10:31:39 AM
Post by: catbirds on June 06, 2021, 09:22:00 PM
As usual, hope you're stocked up on supplies and staying safe, Yastreb! Everyone else, too, as this pandemic never feels quite like it's approaching its end.
Post by: Róisín on June 06, 2021, 11:06:37 PM
Post by: catbirds on June 13, 2021, 01:04:10 AM
I'm still kind of nervous about it all, though. Especially with the relatively low amount of people fully vaccinated. I might even start double-masking again just to be Extra Safe now that people can walk around the store I work in. :')))
(for context: I live in Ontario)
Post by: JoB on June 13, 2021, 08:12:02 AM
I'm still kind of nervous about it all, though. Especially with the relatively low amount of people fully vaccinated.Germany is at about 50% partly, 25% fully vaccinated¹, plus steadily falling incidences (http://corona.riki.de). Nonetheless, the fed parliament has extended (https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestag-epidemische-lage-101.html) the "state of an epidemic of national importance" (which allows for faster federal countermeasures) until the end of September, and some places (like the city of Cologne) are keeping some above-legal-minimum mandatory-masks, no-alcohol etc. regulations in place.
Since such regulations restrict constitutional freedoms, which is only allowed when the restrictions are absolutely necessary, we're now headed into debates (https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/maskenpflicht-debatte-103.html) whether even the most basic regulations are even constitutional ...
Spoiler¹: show
I might even start double-masking again just to be Extra Safe now that people can walk around the store I work in. :')))... would your employer happen to appreciate some regional avantgarde fashion (http://romanticallyapocalyptic.com/info)? O:-)
(for context: I live in Ontario)
Post by: Yastreb on June 13, 2021, 08:50:19 AM
Post by: Opaque on June 13, 2021, 09:19:50 AM
Post by: lumilaulu on June 13, 2021, 11:52:59 AM
Post by: chucao on June 14, 2021, 03:14:25 PM
(Sorry, bad english. Correct me if you want ^^)
Post by: Opaque on June 14, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
Post by: catbirds on June 16, 2021, 12:19:02 AM
Yastreb, I think patchwork is the best way to describe restrictions. It seems to be kind of clear in Melbourne, though. I have a friend there who attended a convention a few weeks ago, but maybe that's changed (again) at this time :P I'm glad you're able to visit your sister and go to better supermarkets! Take care, as usual.
My frustration with the government response(s) to the pandemic over time might better be expressed elsewhere on this forum, but my stance on personal responsibility is that giving up a few luxuries for public health isn't really an infringement upon your rights. But maybe that's just me, I've never made a habit of going out for dinners. And the overall situation is pretty conducive to irrational assumptions.
... would your employer happen to appreciate some regional avantgarde fashion (http://romanticallyapocalyptic.com/info)? O:-)
Funny, I opened this page and instantly recognized that this is pretty much how every canadian dresses in the winter. Well, minus the gas masks, but they'd be a cool thing to add! Makes the winters a bit less boring, I think.
Post by: Yastreb on June 17, 2021, 11:34:32 PM
From 11:59pm on Thursday 17 June 2021, if you live in metropolitan Melbourne:
There are no restrictions on the reasons to leave home but staying COVIDSafe remains important.
There are no limits on the distance you can travel, and you can travel to regional Victoria.
You can travel to Victoria’s Alpine Resorts if all visitors have a COVID-19 test within 72 hours of departing Melbourne and receive a negative test (children under 12 years not included). Visitors must be able to show evidence of a negative test as a condition of entry, such as a text message from a testing provider.
You can have up to two adults plus dependants visit your home per day.
Face masks are mandatory indoors, except at your home.
Face masks are recommended outdoors where you cannot maintain 1.5 metres from others.
If you have any symptoms, no matter how mild you must get tested for COVID-19.
Check-in everywhere you visit, no matter how long you spend at that location.
Social gatherings
Up to two adults can visit a household per day, plus dependants. Infants under 12 months are not included in this cap.
You can see friends and family outdoors in a public place in a group of up to 20 people. A public place is an area accessible by members of the public like a park or the beach. It does not include your backyard at home.
Work and education
If you can work or study from home, you should continue to do so. If you can’t work from home, you can go to work.
Schools and universities remain open.
Offices can increase to 50% capacity or 20 people, whichever is greater.
Religion and ceremony
Religious gatherings and ceremonies are allowed with a maximum of 150 people per venue (indoors and outdoors), with no more than 75 indoors plus the number of people required for the service. A density limit of 1 person per 4 sqm applies indoors and outdoors.
You can have a wedding at a venue with up to 20 people. This limit includes the couple and two witnesses. The celebrant and a photographer are in addition to the cap. Weddings in private residences are not permitted unless compassionate grounds apply.
Funerals are allowed with up to 75 people. This limit doesn’t include babies under 12 months of age, or the people required to conduct the funeral. If a funeral is held at a private residence, private gathering restrictions apply.
There are no restrictions on those travelling from metropolitan Melbourne to regional Victoria for weddings and funerals.
Sport and recreation
Community sport can resume for all ages, including training and competition. Contact and non-contact sport outdoors can resume with the minimum amount of people needed to play the game.
Indoor physical recreation can resume, with group sizes of up to 10 per session indoors, plus the minimum number of people required to conduct the activity (such as a trainer running a gym class). No more than 50 patrons per venue indoors, a maximum capacity of 150 per venue (indoors and outdoors) and a density requirement of 1 person per 4 sqm applies.
For activities other than community sport (like exercise classes in the park) you can exercise outdoors with up to 20 people.
Retail and hospitality
Shops are open with a density requirement of 1 person per 4 sqm. While shopping you need to adhere to the patron limit per shop. This limit on patrons is in place to ensure everyone in the shop can keep 1.5 metres distance.
Beauty and personal care services are open. Workers must wear a face mask, but customers can remove their face mask for the duration of the service if the service cannot be provided with a face mask on.
Restaurants and cafes (under 100sqm) can open with up to 25 people before density requirements apply. A density requirement of 1 person per 4 sqm with a maximum of 150 people (indoors and outdoors) and no more than 75 indoors. Only seated service is permitted when dining in, to ensure everyone can keep 1.5 metres distance.
Entertainment
Community facilities including libraries can open with 150 per venue (indoors and outdoors) including up to 75 indoors, and a maximum group size of 10 (excluding infants under the age of 1 year) plus the minimum number of people required to conduct an activity or service.
Bars, karaoke facilities and nightclubs are open with seated service, a density requirement of 1 person per 4 sqm and no more than 50 people indoors.
Indoor seated venues such as cinemas can have 50% seated capacity and up to 75 people per venue and maximum group size of 10 people (excluding babies under 1 year). A density requirement of 1 person per 4 sqm applies to indoor non-seated areas.
Outdoor seated venues can have 50% seated capacity and up to 150 people per venue and maximum group size of 20 people (excluding babies under 1 year). A density requirement of 1 person per 4 sqm applies to outdoor non-seated areas.
Face masks
Face masks must be carried at all times and must be worn indoors. You do not need to wear a mask in your own home or if a lawful exception applies.
Face masks are recommended when outdoors when you cannot maintain 1.5 metres from others.
Post by: Opaque on June 18, 2021, 12:25:37 AM
Post by: JoB on June 25, 2021, 03:14:19 AM
Speaking of ongoing research, apparently some of the pharma companies are busy trying to come up with a flu+CoViD combo vaccine, rumour being that it promises to be more effective than vaccinating against those separately. If CoViD vaccination would really happen to turn out to need yearly booster shots, same as flu vaccination, we'd stand a chance that in the long run, We The Humans will deal with CoViD in essentially the same way as we did with the flu before - vaccination drives every year, always seeing a certain number of cases and deaths happening nonetheless, but.FWIW, the WHO seems to be talking about repeat vaccination in yearly intervals for the vulnerable ones, and yearly or every two years for everyone else, now.
Post by: wavewright62 on June 26, 2021, 03:37:59 AM
[NB I think that was the right response.]
Oddly enough, neither the partner, nor their friends, nor any of the thousands of people tested have come up positive for 'mate korona' (as it's now referred to here), even though the Delta variant is the culprit. This is a good thing, but suspicious.
Post by: Jitter on June 26, 2021, 11:45:07 AM
Until Finland made it to the European championship in football (soccer) for the first time ever. The games are played in different places (I haven’t kept up but Finland had games in Copenhagen and St Petersburg), some of which are not doing as well as we are.
So, somewhat understandably, a lot of Finnish fans traveled to St Petersburg to se the game. In theory the precautions were good, including ffp2 masks everywhere, empty seats between groups of friends and mandatory testing. In practice over a 100 cases have been found among the fans by today, with many hudreds being chased to be ordered into quarantine. The fans traveled by buses, and many of those buses have had at least someone who is infected. It is of course the delta variant.
I am not amused. Personally I’m fully vaccinated due to being in a high risk group, but it would have been nice to get some freedom. But apparently not.
Many restrictions have been eased, we never had an actual lockdown but even restaurants are open now etc. At least for a while.
Post by: catbirds on June 26, 2021, 03:53:45 PM
At the moment, I think more restrictions are always better than none. When authorities give clearance for sporting events such as the European Championship, it's definitely worth noting who stands to gain from these decisions (that is, profit for certain industries and probably public image for a country). So while it sounds fun at the moment, it definitely won't add up later. I mean, it does add up to something, just not to your benefit.
Wave, Yastreb, and Jitter, I hope your countries handle the response to recent cases well and, if they don't, that at least you guys do your best to stay safe!
And more updates from where I am, my province is opening up hair salons and allowing indoor gatherings on the 30th I think. It's not like there are no more cases anymore. We have decent vaccination rates, but that's not enough to convince me to go out, nope! I think we're at 60% for the first dose and steadily increasing, but obviously I won't be going pub crawling or whatever anytime soon. Not that I've ever done that :))
(And I'm not particularly eager to see people celebrate a certain national holiday, in light of recent events.)
Post by: Opaque on June 26, 2021, 04:17:19 PM
Post by: Jitter on June 26, 2021, 05:34:43 PM
The main paper gives the rates as rolling number of cases in the last 14 days, and it was already going down so well that the current number was about 50% of the previous 14 days period, but now it’s nearly back. Does this make any sense? For today the last 14 days was 13th to 26th June, and the number of cases in that period was 1215. The previous 14 days was 30th May to 12th June at 1405 cases. So, we were going down fast but now we are more or less stuck.
Post by: Vulpes on June 27, 2021, 09:09:47 AM
The big unknowable is what will happen as we open up - travel is increasing, first within the "Atlantic Bubble" (NL, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island) then the rest of Canada. If the delta or some other more transmissible variant shows up and cases shoot up, the whole re-opening process will stall. So I'd better make those masks, regardless!
Post by: JoB on July 03, 2021, 06:42:16 AM
(https://www.docrat.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/DR3775-1536x492.png) (https://www.docrat.com.au/comic/ben-must-quarantine-5/)
In other news, about the (EU-coordinated) Digital COVID Certificates in particular: Those who got their vaccination shots in drives organized by the state of NRW (and IIUC a couple other states of Germany opted for the same principle) were told (https://www.land.nrw/de/pressemitteilung/informationen-zur-einfuehrung-des-digitalen-impfnachweises-nordrhein-westfalen) that they would get theirs by mail, "before the end of June", "in time for summer [school] holidays at the latest" [which begin 05-Jul in NRW], no need to ask for it.
Also: Since 01-Jul, the vaccination centers run by the KVNO will hand them out immediately after the jab (https://www.kvno.de/aktuelles/aktuelles-detail/nachricht/digitale-impfzertifikate-impfzentren-in-nordrhein-starten-echtbetrieb), but not yet back when I got mine. But they're also handing them out through the same online portal that serves to make the appointments in the first place.
Reality check: No snail mail so far, and the portal offers me a cert for my first jab (in early May), but not yet for the second (mid June).
... yay for having neither kids (AFAICT) nor plans to have an (out-of-country) vacation anytime soon, I guess. >:(
Spoiler: ranting on • show
Post by: Yastreb on July 06, 2021, 09:22:04 AM
Meanwhile, on the trams and out on the street as I passed through the CBD and elsewhere, I noticed that masks are being worn outdoors by the majority even though it's not compulsory, and there are very, very few non-compliers on trams and trains and in shops and supermarkets.
Post by: Groupoid on July 09, 2021, 01:05:52 AM
We currently got few restrictions, school summer break. At least 40% of the population are vaccinated.
I just fear the next wave of restrictions. Wondering when it might come or how high the numbers will rise this time around. Maybe the vaccines will prevent an explosion of cases, maybe the Delta-variant is too infectious. I so much wish for lectures in-person and an open cafeteria next semester, but that might still not make sense.
And people are discussing all kinds of restrictions for non-vaccinated people, in order to give incentives. Somewhat morally unclear for me sometimes, since its possible to argue both for and against discrimination against the non-vaccinated (depending on context).
For more precise numbers for Switzerland, use the website of the FOPH (http://covid19.admin.ch)
Post by: Yastreb on July 10, 2021, 05:46:41 AM
Post by: Yastreb on July 11, 2021, 04:00:13 AM
It's been reported that police in NSW are angry at reports of people holding parties in defiance of restrictions. Crackdowns may be expected soon.
Post by: Grade E cat on July 14, 2021, 04:50:49 AM
Meanwhile, even among the health workers, we have the "it's unethical to force people to do something" crowd. There is also a "trust people to be responsible rather than forcing them" crowd, which in my opinion had the entire month of June (during which vaccination became open to anyone over 18, and people over 18 have been allowed to grab slots that are still free 1-2 days before they happen since the second half of May) to show how responsible they are and observe the same about their fellow citizens as a whole. The overall reaction to the announcement also revealed just how big the "yeah, I should probably get vaccinated at some point, but no hurry, it's not like I'm in an at risk demographic" crowd was all along. I'm bringing this up because the number of new people getting vaccinated plumetted after the early June surge, and we may have at least gotten this wave sometime later than the most popular time to go on vacation in the country if more more people had gotten vaccinated earlier according to the number crunchers. For those wondering, I'm getting my second dose two days before the restrictions kick in.
EDIT: more accurate information
Post by: Yastreb on July 15, 2021, 04:32:18 AM
We now have new cases, new exposure sites and a strain of this virus that is wildly infectious.
We’ve seen this strain before – and you probably already know what we need to do next.
Victoria will not wait to act. We know that not much good comes from waiting.
Waiting could see more people infected and the number of exposure sites explode.
If we act now – while we’re right on the heels of this outbreak – we can give ourselves every chance of getting ahead of it.
If we wait – we lose that option.
Which is why, on the advice of Acting Chief Health Officer, Victoria will go into lockdown tonight, meaning there are only five reasons to leave home from 11:59pm on Thursday 15 of July 2021.
That means you can only leave home to get the food and the supplies you need, for exercise for up to two hours and no more than 5kms from your home, for care or caregiving, work or education if you can’t do it from home or to get vaccinated at the nearest possible location.
These restrictions will be in place for five days.
A list of authorised work and workers is available online here – but you all know the drill.
If you were an authorised worker during the last lockdown, you’ll be an authorised worker this time around. Everyone else must work from home.
Last night we announced that face masks must be worn indoors at all times (except at home) and outdoors when it’s not possible to physically distance.
Under today’s announcement, face masks must also be worn outdoors at all times.
We know this outbreak didn’t start here in Victoria. We know that wearing face masks can keep us safe and stop the spread.
So please, follow the rules and wear a face mask at all times.
For those that have returned from a red zone on a permit – you must follow the requirements of your permit.
That means going straight home to quarantine for 14 days and only leaving to get tested.
And we must be clear. Quarantining means staying at home.
If you need help getting the food and supplies you need to quarantine at home – call the coronavirus hotline...
We are counting on everyone to do the right thing.
For our families, our businesses and our state – stay at home and keep everyone safe.
Post by: Róisín on July 15, 2021, 07:15:11 AM
Post by: Keep Looking on July 15, 2021, 09:27:56 AM
Post by: Jitter on July 15, 2021, 01:46:09 PM
Overall Finland has done well despite not having strict lockdowns at all. Still there are lots of people who are very vocal about how the Finnish government has failed everything about the response to the pandemic (as well as everything else) and are completely useless and incompetent. Shees.
Post by: moredhel on July 15, 2021, 02:10:46 PM
Finland is back to 300+ daily cases, but public events are still allowed albeit with some tules and restrictions. The rationale is that the oldest and otherwise most vulnerable are vaccinated and therefore the strain on health care isn’t going to be as overwhelming as was feared in the beginning.
This sounds like a very risky idea.
Post by: refract3d on July 16, 2021, 02:39:43 PM
I'm concerned about the delta variant. I can't see the US as a whole agreeing to put restrictions back in place unless it gets really bad again, and I don't want it to get really bad again. I want people to be responsible and go get their shots and care about the people around them, but that's felt like something of a lost cause since the beginning.
Post by: Yastreb on July 19, 2021, 12:24:08 AM
Post by: Yastreb on July 19, 2021, 09:46:28 PM
South Australia will also go into lockdown for seven days from 1800 today. Damn it, Róisín, I hoped South Aus would miss it this time.
Post by: Yastreb on July 25, 2021, 07:18:47 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/victoria-records-11-new-cases-of-locally-acquired-covid-19-cases/100321558 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/victoria-records-11-new-cases-of-locally-acquired-covid-19-cases/100321558)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/sydney-anti-lockdown-rally-could-be-covid-19-superspreader-event/100321006
(https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/sydney-anti-lockdown-rally-could-be-covid-19-superspreader-event/100321006)
Or to put it another way...
Fools are gathering
For anti-lockdown protests
Great way to get sick
Post by: Róisín on July 25, 2021, 09:47:07 AM
Post by: Yastreb on July 27, 2021, 05:08:31 AM
Post by: Róisín on July 27, 2021, 05:50:53 AM
At least this pandemic is getting more people growing some of their own food, which both helps my sales of vegetable seeds, fruit trees and other food plants, and makes local food security a little better. I am continuing to work on building our community garden for the same reason.
Post by: Yastreb on July 29, 2021, 06:55:56 AM
My concern (apart from the legal issues on involving the ADF in law enforcement) is that such a measure will be seen by the conspiracists as a form of vindication, and be inspired to some kind of violent response.
Post by: Yastreb on August 05, 2021, 05:43:18 AM
From ABC news; The lockdown will last for seven days and there will only be five reasons for leaving home: getting groceries and supplies, exercise, care or caregiving, authorised work or education that cannot be done from home and getting vaccinated.
Under the rules, shopping and exercise must be done within five kilometres of your home. Mask rules will remain unchanged, with masks mandatory in all indoor and outdoor settings except for inside your own home.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 06, 2021, 06:12:48 PM
I have heard reports of a UK study that an 8- to 12-week interval is more effective in promoting antibody numbers, which would raise questions, but I have also heard opinions that we'll will likely need subsequent yearly boosters anyway.
Our borders remain closed, with ongoing ructions surrounding booking managed isolation spots for returning Kiwis. While the quarantine-free travel bubble with most of Australia is suspended, we still had an exemption made for the (Australian national rugby team) Wallabies to come
Post by: Yastreb on August 11, 2021, 08:03:24 AM
When I last spoke with my sister, she commented ruefully that it's probable that I won't be able to visit before September.
The only bright spot is that I'll be getting my second Astra-Zenica shot this Saturday.
Post by: Róisín on August 11, 2021, 08:59:30 AM
Post by: Yastreb on August 16, 2021, 02:14:08 AM
Premier Daniel Andrews made the following statement.
Monday, 16 August 2021
EXTENDED MELBOURNE LOCKDOWN TO KEEP VICTORIANS SAFE
Due to the ongoing level of community transmission of coronavirus in Victoria, the current lockdown across
Melbourne will be extended and a curfew will be put in place across metropolitan Melbourne.
After almost two weeks of restrictions in Victoria, it’s clear the number of coronavirus cases out in the community is still too high, it’s spreading too far and there are too many exposure sites cropping up every day.
The average exposure days, the number of days an infectious person is out in the community, was 0.61 and
declining at this point of our previous outbreak. In the current outbreak the average exposure days is 1.8. To put that more simply: cases diagnosed yesterday were infectious in the community for a total of 15 days, compared to 0 for the same point during the last outbreak.
Most concerningly, there have been a number of mystery cases discovered over the course of the last week which indicate the virus is moving around undetected in the community. Victoria’s public health team believe additional measures are needed to limit movement across Melbourne to slow the spread of this highly infectious Delta variant and enable us to open up again as soon as possible.
Unfortunately, based on the current trajectory of the outbreak, we will not be in a position to lift restrictions on Thursday as planned. Victoria’s Chief Health Officer has declared that from tonight the lockdown restrictions will be strengthened and extended in metropolitan Melbourne, until 11.59pm on Thursday, 2 September. This is an additional 14 days on the previous directions.
The strengthened settings will see a curfew imposed from 9pm to 5am every night. This will operate as it did last year, with very limited reasons to leave the home during this time. There will be increased police presence across metropolitan Melbourne to ensure public health measures are enforced.
While the restrictions commence from 11.59pm tonight, we are asking people to respect the curfew from 9pm.
Permits will be required to leave the house for authorised work, consistent with the arrangements that were in place last year. Additional restrictions will also apply to the construction industry, again operating as it did last year with staffing reductions in place except for critical infrastructure and emergency repairs.
At large scale construction sites, staffing must reduce to 25 per cent or five workers on site, whichever is higher.
Authorised workers will be required to carry permits when working, and when travelling for work, from 11:59pm on Tuesday August 17. The permits need to be certified by an employer. Permits will be available on the coronavirus website before these directions come into effect.
Permits will also need to be carried by higher education students who are on the Authorised Provider list.
Incidents which occurred in Melbourne over the weekend – people congregating together on pub crawls with no social distancing, different families meeting in parks together, large groups of people visiting other households – were unacceptable.
Under the strengthened restrictions designed to curb potential transmission events, playgrounds, basketball hoops, skate parks and outdoor exercise equipment will now be closed. People will not be able to remove their masks to drink alcoholic beverages in public.
Exercise will be limited to just you and one other person, plus dependants if they can’t be left at home. This is similar to the current rule, but with a slight change so that if you live in a larger household such as a share house, or with extended family, you can no longer exercise with all members of your household.
Otherwise, the restrictions will remain the same – there are still only five reasons to leave your home: shopping for the things you need – one person per household per day, care and caregiving, exercise, authorised work and study – and to get a vaccine.
We’re making it even easier for Victorians to reach that goal of one million vaccine doses with more vaccination.
centres, more capacity and more appointments in the system.
Exercise and shopping are still limited to 5km from your home. If there’s no shops in your 5km radius, you can travel to the ones closest to you. You are also able to travel more than 5km to get a vaccine if you need to. And more than ever, it’s critical people do not have visitors to the home.
Increasing our vaccination coverage in Victoria also remains one of the most important things we can do given the current coronavirus outbreak and the potential for further interstate incursions this year.
Post by: Jitter on August 16, 2021, 10:22:14 AM
So, what do we get? A "people's movement" against vaccinating children, posing under the name "We save the children", with "no intended coincidence" with the big charity "Save the Children". Adults at schools handing out flyers with "information" about masks and vaccinations. Adults insisting to get inside a school to "observe" the vaccinations (had to be taken away by the police as they refused to leave the school premises). I'm sure the children are feeling a lot safer now! o_O
We also have some restrictions, although at no point have we been even near an actual lockdown like Melbourne is now. Going to work is allowed for everybody, but employers and employees are asked to arrange remote work in all duties where possible. Masks are required in public transport in e.g. Helsinki area, but it's not enforced so you see some without. Restaurants and bars need to close earlier, and can take in fewer patrons, but are allowed to remain open.
Vaccinations are progressing, but a "corona passport" is only being carefully considered. Apparently it's unfair if vaccination is required to allow some things, so it's a lot better to not allow anyone. Frankly it's starting to feel the society is being held hostage by people who refuse to take the shots. We wouldn't be fully vaccinated yet even without anybody refusing, but the anti-vaxx contingent is getting a larger and larger proportion of the entire unvaccinated population.
I hate people.
Post by: Yastreb on August 16, 2021, 08:05:01 PM
A "people's movement" against vaccinating children, posing under the name "We save the children", with "no intended coincidence" with the big charity "Save the Children".
In the United States, "Save the Children" became a QAnon "slogan," along with "The real pandemic is paedophilia" and the like.
Post by: wavewright62 on August 17, 2021, 04:25:16 AM
Post by: lumilaulu on August 19, 2021, 02:40:38 PM
Vaccinations are progressing, but a "corona passport" is only being carefully considered. Apparently it's unfair if vaccination is required to allow some things, so it's a lot better to not allow anyone. Frankly it's starting to feel the society is being held hostage by people who refuse to take the shots. We wouldn't be fully vaccinated yet even without anybody refusing, but the anti-vaxx contingent is getting a larger and larger proportion of the entire unvaccinated population.Ugh, tell me about it. The vaccination rate among adults in the region I live in is among the highest in Europe (88% fully vaccinated, 91% at least one dose), and the vaccination campaign for those aged 12 to 17 is going pretty well, yet the number of infections and hospitalisations keeps going up rapidly. The vaccination rate in the rest of the country, on the other hand, is quite a bit lower, and a full 30% lower in the capital (possibly the lowest in Western Europe).
I hate people.
Also in the news: according to a survey, vaccinated people are more motivated to keep following the rules and restrictions, and more hesitant about any loosening of restrictions. Unvaccinated people are more likely to just ignore any rules, recommendations, and restrictions.
Is it any wonder numbers are going up?
Post by: Jitter on August 19, 2021, 03:30:25 PM
According to the law, in Finland minors from 12 yo upwards can decide whether they take a vaccine (Covid or otherwise), unless deemed by the healthcare professional in question to be too immature to decide. So, in several schools, teachers and headmasters have received threats of “consequences” or court cases, if children of anti-vaxxer parents get vaccinated. Because teachers and headmasters make laws and arrange vaccinations, I assume…
Anyways, my immediate family is now at least partially vaccinated, which is good! The other son hets his second shot at end of August, the younger one is a couple of months behind. Vaccinations of kids aged 12-15 were just started last week and are progressing well. Maybe we’ll get out of this yet, at some point.
Post by: Groupoid on August 22, 2021, 04:03:34 PM
At parties and other unofficial gatherings people don't wear masks any more and don't care a lot about the number of people present etc. But we still don't shake hands. Which still makes greetings a little awkward sometimes.
Post by: Yastreb on August 23, 2021, 02:32:18 AM
Meanwhile, Sydney is in crisis, with the number of cases today at 830, and no sign of going into decline; there have been 74 deaths since the Delta variant was first detected. Despite that, there are still anti-lockdown protests going on, with the usual posturing.
Post by: Yastreb on August 30, 2021, 09:45:46 AM
However, the situation in NSW is dire, with 1,272 new cases in the past 24 hours, and four more deaths. Australia's death toll now stands at 1,003.
The only bright spot is that South Australia recorded no new cases, so Róisín can take comfort from that.
Post by: Róisín on August 30, 2021, 10:51:31 AM
Post by: Yastreb on September 01, 2021, 01:15:31 AM
Post by: ohnosir on September 02, 2021, 01:24:18 AM
Post by: Opaque on September 02, 2021, 09:11:45 AM
Ohnosir please stay safe!
Post by: Róisín on September 02, 2021, 09:25:22 AM
Post by: Yastreb on September 02, 2021, 09:59:57 AM
Post by: thorny on September 02, 2021, 10:18:54 AM
Here's hoping for a mild reaction.
Post by: Opaque on September 02, 2021, 11:11:53 AM
Post by: tehta on September 02, 2021, 12:11:07 PM
Post by: Jitter on September 02, 2021, 01:03:03 PM
Three out of four of my family members are fully vaccinated as of this week, the youngest has had one shot too. So, we are getting there! I’m actually contemplating going to the office! I’ve been there twice since early March 2020. I’m sure it will be very exotic.
Spoiler: show
Post by: ohnosir on September 04, 2021, 01:50:59 AM
Roisin, I hope you're doing alright, I'm happy to hear you got your shot though! I have chronic pain, so it was a b**** for me in terms of aches...I am also very high risk (thanks Marfan's) so I got mine super early
Post by: Róisín on September 04, 2021, 01:58:44 AM
Post by: ohnosir on September 04, 2021, 02:10:51 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on September 04, 2021, 05:37:32 AM
NZ has just entered a snap complete lockdown as at tonight, for a (likely delta variant) case in the community. While that seems draconian for a single case, we have the example of Australia to persuade our government to "go hard, go early" and order direct to Level 4, for the whole country. This one was not isolated to Auckland because we just had a major rugby match over the weekend, with people from all over NZ flying in to Auckland to attend. Yee haaa
As at Wednesday at midnight, all of NZ barring Auckland stepped down an alert level - adding contactless takeaways and deliveries, and expansion of 'bubbles' to allow child custody arrangements, funerals with up to 10 attendees, and schooling of essential workers. Auckland will remain in the strictest level at least until 13 September. The one case, confirmed delta variant, has spawned over 750 cases and counting in the last 3 weeks. The lockdown restriction seems to be doing its work, though, with only 20 new cases today.
Some are calling for building of purpose-built quarantine and managed isolation facilities instead of the repurposed hotels we are using now, but I personally think that's nonsense. From my job with a quantity surveying firm, I see that building anything like a school or hotel takes years of planning and estimates before construction, and a year or two of construction, if it all goes smoothly and you have no hiccups with your funding (which so many projects do). Our construction sector is going absolutely bananas at the moment (barring lockdown), developing critical shortages of personnel and materials to actually do the work, in all stages of the process. Good luck getting your precast concrete to make your floors (for instance) anytime in the next three years if you haven't booked it already.
In the meantime, hotels are standing empty while our borders are closed, why not utilise them? The security and ventilation requirements are an ongoing challenge, but a lot less challenging than building new. </rant>
My firm is working harder than ever working from home during lockdown, with the estimators not missing a beat with the projects in the pipeline, and the teams servicing construction scrambling to sort out the mess further delays and shortage of materials are causing.
Post by: deadrose on September 09, 2021, 05:14:11 PM
By US standards, we're doing very well in Washington State. Compared to the rest of the world, the whole US is a hideous plague pit though. Seattle is one of the more-vaccinated areas of the country, but as soon as you move out to the suburbs, the rate drops sharply (except for one suburb to be mentioned below). On the other side of the mountain range that divides our state, the numbers are very bad. They tend towards the crazy-conservative side over there and are running the feed stores out of ivermectin. Calls to the state Poison Control Center have tripled since people started taking livestock dewormer.
The big outlier I mentioned above is the town I consider my home, Vashon Island. It's long been known, nationally and internationally, as a hotbed of antivax parents, although it's gotten somewhat better since they had a whooping cough epidemic (nothing like hearing your kid struggle for breath to make you realize the reason for immunizations). They have one of the best Covid vax uptake rates in the entire country, with something like 86% fully vaccinated and another 10% in the process. It's been helped in recent months by one of the island bigwigs pleading with everyone to get vaccinated, shortly before he died of Covid early this month. He'd been one of the political holdouts.
Today the president has announced some new mandates to require vaccines. I really hope people will get with it - we already have entire police departments threatening to quit rather than get vaccinated, shops in some areas refusing to let people enter if they're wearing masks, and other general contrariness.
I haven't been able to see either of my daughters since the pandemic started, because they live in Canada. The two governments still aren't cooperating on border crossings, so I could get into Canada, and then be refused entry back to the US, depending on the day, the border agent, the wind direction, and other random factors. I'm so frustrated!
Oh, and to bring this back to the personal, 3 relatives have gotten it so far. One survived.
Post by: Jitter on September 09, 2021, 05:39:11 PM
We have some anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers and protesters here in Finland too, but despite great efforts they haven’t managed to ruin everything. At least so far. Now the government is planning to lift the restrictions as vaccination rates climb. We are nationally at bit over 60% of over 12 year olds fully vaccinated. The threshold for removing the restrictions is planned to be 80% fully vaccinated or the time when everyone over 12 would have been able to get their shots.
Post by: deadrose on September 09, 2021, 05:47:58 PM
Post by: Opaque on September 09, 2021, 06:53:49 PM
It's a shame people are so willing to sacrifice their neighbors/family/friends for their own stubbornness. We have a long ways left to go but everyone needs to stay strong and keep everyone else safe. Take care of yourselves.
Post by: Jitter on September 10, 2021, 01:49:24 AM
Post by: Opaque on September 10, 2021, 09:47:16 AM
While I don't agree with them on many issues I also don't want them to get sick. Even if they're doing it to themselves...
Post by: midwestmutt on September 11, 2021, 09:21:18 AM
Post by: RanVor on September 11, 2021, 09:40:03 AM
For all our technology we are still not too far removed from bloodletting and burying cats in the graveyard at midnight.Where else are you supposed to bury cats?
Post by: Grade E cat on September 11, 2021, 11:22:03 AM
Spoiler: Technicality I happen to be aware of • show
Post by: midwestmutt on September 11, 2021, 08:29:49 PM
I think it's midnight that is supposed to be the strange part.It was an old folk remedy for warts.Spoiler: Technicality I happen to be aware of • show
Post by: LetsEatBees on September 14, 2021, 09:00:47 AM
Mine just had to be one of them, and I just had to wait to get vaccinated didn't I. :(
So my scheduled is going to be a bit confusing for a while.
Post by: wavewright62 on September 14, 2021, 05:42:47 PM
Have you got any good ones?
Post by: JoB on September 15, 2021, 03:08:33 AM
Have you got any good ones?For our similar efforts? Not really, they officially go as "niedrigschwellige Impfangebote" (low-threshold vaccination offers) and the nicknames need only a minuscule dose of originality to raise above that. Also, srs bsnss with our stalling vaccination rates (~60% now, ~5% outright unwilling, need to get to the remaining ~35% to reach a level sufficient to prevent another wave or vax getting made mandatory).
For yours? Weeeeeell ...
Shot in the Park(ing)
Riding Shotgun (how frequent is the term "vaccination gun" in English-speaking countries, actually?)
Drive-By Jabbing (OK, this one might prove contentious ...)
Needles 'n' Grins
Spritza Delivery
Flying Docs (might want to avoid that one where the real ones are active)
Keystone Docs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwUUUqgfu-E&t=56s)
Yellow Carders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Certificate_of_Vaccination_or_Prophylaxis)
Strain Unsurfers ('cause they want to stop the waves, geddit?)
... OK, work just called with an outage, prepare for my return ... >:D
Post by: Yastreb on September 22, 2021, 10:56:41 PM
The outcome has been violence on an unnerving scale, with many injuries and hundreds of arrests. Yesterday the protesters occupied the Shrine of Remembrance,** a memorial to the dead from all conflicts of the modern era, which led to widespread condemnation. The protesters had the chutzpah to shout "Sacred place!" at the police as they were driven out and arrested; fortunately no damage was done to the Shrine itself.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement)
** https://www.shrine.org.au/ (https://www.shrine.org.au/)
Post by: Opaque on September 22, 2021, 11:59:15 PM
Post by: JoB on September 23, 2021, 03:12:57 AM
Post by: Róisín on September 23, 2021, 03:26:56 AM
The lockdowns and mask mandates do seem to be working here. In South Australia today we have one new case who was in quarantine, seven active cases with zero cases in hospital, no deaths so far today. Begins to look promising. Now if we can just avoid superspreader events like those protest marches in Melbourne or Sydney….. I don’t mind wearing a mask and social distancing for awhile longer if it means we can open up more and sooner. I need to get back to work!
EDIT A FEW HOURS LATER: one of the people who desecrated the Shrine of Remembrance in Melbourne is now in hospital with Covid19 so this ‘protest’ is all too likely to become a superspreader event. Some of those idiots were throwing rubbish and urinating on the walls of the Shrine, which is to many of us a sacred site. Not respectful to our dead family members, to living veterans or to the general community.
Post by: RanVor on September 23, 2021, 10:36:50 AM
Post by: Yastreb on September 23, 2021, 07:05:42 PM
Post by: moredhel on September 23, 2021, 07:29:54 PM
Knowing someone like Róisín is a cure for misanthropy.This is true.
Post by: Róisín on September 23, 2021, 09:41:43 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on September 24, 2021, 01:45:33 AM
Knowing someone like Róisín is a cure for misanthropy.
This is true.
Post by: Jitter on September 24, 2021, 04:47:51 AM
Knowing someone like Róisín is a cure for misanthropy.
So say we all
Post by: deadrose on September 29, 2021, 06:22:08 PM
Post by: Lenny on October 01, 2021, 04:22:49 AM
As a bit of good news, though, I saw today that the Netherlands is aiming to donate 27 million COVID vaccines by the end of the year to the UN's Covax project, under the motto get one, give one. They've donated before to Suriname, Indonesia etc. but this is the first I've seen of a structural goal rather than just getting rid of vaccines that would otherwise expire, so I felt that was a good thing to see.
Post by: Yastreb on October 01, 2021, 05:51:00 PM
Add to that the fact that the spike in case numbers and deaths, and the consequent uncertainty about if we'll ever come out of lockdown ere the festive season, was caused in large part by the foolishness of those who claimed to be demonstrating for "freedom" but acted like disrespectful idiots, as well as those who chose to gather for celebrations over the Grand Final weekend... Gods and the Fates spare us all.
Post by: Opaque on October 08, 2021, 12:28:29 AM
I've tried to talk with some of my other cousins but they don't seem to have much sympathy for the situation the world is in. They keep saying things like "If you want to feel that way, it's on you" or "Our family is healthy and handles covid well so we don't need to be careful" and they won't listen to anything I say. I'm afraid for my family. I'm afraid of the direction they're going and I don't think I'll be able to help them see my side of things.
Post by: Jitter on October 08, 2021, 05:37:16 AM
You are right that it's no use trying to argue them out of it. Apparently opposition views tend to only strengthen the convictions in many cases.
However, as long as this concerns adults (which I don't of course know), it really is up to them. You can't make anyone see sense. If it would be possible to keep the relations with them alive, for example to agree to not talk about this, it might be helpful, to hold on to a normal life to return to if some of them start coming around. However it's not your responsibility to "save" them from themselves, or from Q. You can offer a hand but they must take it, so to speak.
It's easy for me to say, but you are also under no obligation to go to the family gathering. While it may feel bad to do so, you are entirely within your rights to just say, thank you for the invitation but I'm not coming this year, and then inform the asker that you will cut the conversation if they pressure you to go or to state why you don't want to go. I'm sure you know this in theory. I also know it's much much less easy to do it in practice!
As it is, I can only wish you luck, and strength. I hope their treks into the rabbit hole will remain relatively shallow!
Finland is lifting restrictions, although the case numbers are getting worse again. A bit over 80 % of over 12 year olds have had the first vaccination, but the second dose is lagging at around 70 % rate and is slowing. We can't really keep everything closed forever, but now again everyone is suffering from the decisions of these who won't take the shot - intensive care units are getting busy, which means various treatments and operations that would likely require ICU as after treatment will soon start getting postponed again.
Finland has just banned giving the Moderna to men under 30 ya due to possible elevated risk of inflammation of the heart. This sort of thing of course doesn't really help to put the anti-vaxxers at ease. Also my son has had the Moderna but he's fine so far.
It's still a mess.
Post by: Róisín on October 12, 2021, 06:36:04 AM
Post by: Yastreb on October 12, 2021, 07:49:56 AM
Unfortunately some of the Eastern states seem to be catching onto the idea that superspreader ‘protests’ are all about ‘freedumb’ rather than irresponsible self-indulgence. Makes life hard for those of us who just want to get out of lockdown sooner.
Tell us about it! With cases in Victoria almost reaching two thousand (I think today's was above 1,400) and deaths every day, the prospect of restrictions being lifted should look remote, but the word is that Premier David Andrews is considering a partial lifting of restrictions in two weeks. I would not be happy if he did, unless cases had dropped sharply.
I'm in double isolation at the moment, of course, because of my neuralgia (don't want to terrify people in the street or on trams or at shops). Fortunately that's eased, but AFAIC, the broader restrictions should stay until infections are much lower.
Post by: Róisín on October 13, 2021, 01:35:17 PM
Post by: wavewright62 on October 13, 2021, 10:35:17 PM
Spoiler: politics and egregious examples of misinformation • show
There is no official announcement, but government officials have stated that there's no point in tightening our lockdown back to its more rigourous setting because, 'the people who are spreading it are not the ones who are following the rules'. They have stopped short of saying they're throwing up their hands because nothing they can say will get through to the defiant.
Part of why NZ had adopted its closed borders and elimination strategy is an acknowledgement that our health system could not cope with case numbers seen in other countries, full stop. Now...I guess we get to see that in action.
Post by: Róisín on October 13, 2021, 11:02:55 PM
Post by: Opaque on October 14, 2021, 12:09:50 AM
Post by: catbirds on October 16, 2021, 02:01:33 AM
here's a short article (https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/10/15/heres-how-to-download-ontarios-new-enhanced-covid-19-vaccine-passport-qr-code.html) on it. There's about a dozen more with essentially the same information, since this is probably the big news of the day.
In other news, there are still anti-vaxx parades here :( I sincerely wish to have just one afternoon shift without running into them!
Post by: Grade E cat on October 16, 2021, 03:47:41 AM
Post by: Jitter on October 16, 2021, 05:10:05 AM
I have to say I’m finding this whole thing very alienating - how come there are this many people who are in complete denial of science? Where did they come from? I suppose they must have been around always, but having a situation that makes it so clear that I share a country and world (although that is easier to explain away, since schools etc are very different in different countries) with people with so very very different worldviews is weird.
Post by: Yastreb on October 16, 2021, 11:41:55 AM
Post by: Yastreb on October 18, 2021, 01:26:00 AM
No restrictions on leaving your home or curfew
In metropolitan Melbourne, the curfew and the 15-kilometre travel radius will be lifted, however, movement between regional Victoria and metropolitan Melbourne will only be allowed for permitted reasons. This is to ensure Melburnians don't spread the virus further into regional Victoria while the state rushes towards the 80 per cent double-vaccinated target.
Work from home continues
People in metropolitan Melbourne must continue to work from home if they can.
Authorised workers are required to have had at least one dose of the vaccine to work on site.
Large-scale construction sites will increase to 100 per cent capacity but only if all workers are fully vaccinated.
Child care and schools
Child care will be open to children who are already attending, as well as children whose parents or guardians are fully vaccinated.
The return to school plan will also be brought forward in line with the rest of these settings, with the start of the staggered return of grade 3 to year 11 in metro Melbourne commencing on Friday, October 22.
You can have people over for dinner
Up to 10 people (including dependents) per day will be able to visit homes in both regional and metropolitan Melbourne.
To ensure this is done safely, it's highly recommended that Victorians only permit people aged 12 years and over who are fully vaccinated to visit them at home.
Most outdoor settings – outdoor cafes, cinemas and physical recreation facilities like pools – will open with up to 50 people per venue but are subject to density limits and only for those who are fully vaccinated.
Indoor settings like restaurants and cafes will be able to reopen with up to 20 people indoors with density limits, and only if all attendees – including workers – are fully vaccinated.
The government says this is a higher cap than planned in the initial roadmap and the change has been made after discussions between the sector and the public health team.
But brick and mortar shopping will have to wait
Retail is still set to open when 80 per cent of 16+ Victorians are fully vaccinated, which is expected to be in 10 days from this Thursday.
Religious gatherings, weddings and funerals
Religious gatherings, weddings and funerals will be able to take place with up to 50 people outdoors and 20 people indoors subject to density limits and only if all attendees are fully vaccinated.
If vaccination status is unknown, 10 people are permitted indoors for funerals, weddings and religious gatherings.
Masks are here to stay
Masks will still be required both indoors and outdoors for all Victorians.
The mask mandate will remain in effect, with no changes to the rules outlined on the current roadmap. However, as indicated in the roadmap, masks would no longer be required outdoors after reaching the 80 per cent vaccination mark.
But you can get a haircut, with hairdressers and beauty services open indoors to five fully vaccinated patrons.
Post by: Róisín on October 18, 2021, 07:01:40 AM
Post by: ohnosir on October 29, 2021, 01:16:32 AM
I'm really glad I had the opportunity to get one. TBH I think it's morally reprehensible that certain countries are getting boosters while the rest of the world is waiting for the vaccination to begin with. But I know that what was available to me, if I skipped out, wouldn't be going to anywhere else. Either taken by us here or just spoiled
Also I am hella compromised and have never been allowed to work from home this whole time, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: Róisín on October 29, 2021, 03:40:51 AM
Post by: midwestmutt on October 29, 2021, 11:21:10 AM
Post by: Jitter on October 29, 2021, 11:50:41 AM
Finland has also seen vaccination rates boosted by the introduction of the corona passport, although not by very much. The passport is required for concerts, museums and such, as well as by restaurants and bars in areas where the spread is currently rapid. Bars and restaurants may elect to follow restrictions (severe limitations to number of customers they can take in, plus have to close early) as an alternative to requiring the passport.
I’m sure you can guess already - some restaurants (bars, cafes etc) that have taken it to use are under attack by the crazies. As far as I’m aware, no concrete damage has been caused (as in them having broken any property) but there have been threats of violence towards the owners and staff in addition to the nowadays so common “leave 1 star reviews en masse” campaigns. I don’t know what to say anymore.
Oh and all this happens at the same time when hospitals are again at the brink of emergency. Elective surgeries are again being postponed and other treatments are at risk of being delayed too. Considering that everyone would be able to go and get the shots for free (with the exception of those who cannot take it for medical reasons, but that is a small minority) it is so so disappointing to see this again, and yet 750 000 adults remain unvaccinated. If it were that they only risk themselves, fine, but it doesn’t work like that.
Post by: midwestmutt on October 29, 2021, 02:52:50 PM
Post by: JoB on October 29, 2021, 07:35:12 PM
These boosters you mentioned, ohnosir and midwestmutt, are they your second or third shots?(Initial "full" immunity can be obtained with two shots (BioNTech, Moderna, ...), one shot (Johnson&Johnson), or in some nations, infection plus "second" shot with a "two shots" vaccine, so one's (first) booster shot can be the second or the third jab. And I'm not ruling out that some places might even consider a cured infection alone a full immunization, which would make the booster the first syringe the patient has ever seen.)
Post by: Róisín on October 31, 2021, 01:10:49 AM
Post by: JoB on October 31, 2021, 03:32:08 AM
The doctor wants me to have the third (booster) shot because I am immunocompromised from chemo.So far, German regulations give the nod to booster shots (usually at the six-months-past mark) for immunocompromised people, those aged 70+, and a couple other conditions (that I don't remember offhand). However, the federal minister of health has now brought up a suggestion to effectively hand out boosters to every (willing) adult.
Relevant (IMHO) background info: It seems that the government is willing to donate the upcoming national surplus of vaccines to the Covax initiative, but the contracts say that in that case, the manufacturers effectively have veto rights (https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/kontraste/vernichtung-impfstoff-103.html) - and, of course, a commercial interest to sell more doses than strictly necessary, even at a markdown ...
Post by: Róisín on November 18, 2021, 10:02:58 PM
Post by: Yastreb on November 18, 2021, 11:13:11 PM
Demonstrations against the expected restrictions to be imposed once vaccinations pass the 90% level have been both large and impassioned, with nooses being displayed and a man arrested after he called for people to bring guns to the demonstrations and Premier Daniel Andrews to be killed.
Post by: Róisín on November 19, 2021, 06:10:17 AM
Post by: Yastreb on November 19, 2021, 08:29:03 AM
I'll be on my guard. My friends, bless the Fates, seem to be in the sensible end of the continuum.
Post by: Róisín on November 20, 2021, 04:39:55 AM
Post by: Yastreb on November 20, 2021, 06:35:24 AM
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-protest-live-updates-thousands-expected-at-anti-pandemic-bill-rally-in-cbd-20211119-p59aiw.html (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-protest-live-updates-thousands-expected-at-anti-pandemic-bill-rally-in-cbd-20211119-p59aiw.html)
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/20/australia-covid-protests-threats-against-traitorous-politicians-as-thousands-rally-in-capital-cities (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/20/australia-covid-protests-threats-against-traitorous-politicians-as-thousands-rally-in-capital-cities)
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/thousands-take-to-melbourne-s-cbd-in-separate-pandemic-law-protest-and-counter-rally-20211120-p59al2.html (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/thousands-take-to-melbourne-s-cbd-in-separate-pandemic-law-protest-and-counter-rally-20211120-p59al2.html)
I did get some amusement from this...
Quote
A Sydney demonstrator carried a “kill the bill” sign, despite there being no such bill in NSW
Post by: JoB on November 20, 2021, 07:00:53 AM
I did get some amusement from this...Chances are he'd happily reply "I meant Gates, of course" ...Quote from: The GuardianA Sydney demonstrator carried a “kill the bill” sign, despite there being no such bill in NSW
(Sorry for not quoting properly, but SMF's [quote] tag's a tad limited (https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Quote) that way.)
Post by: Yastreb on December 05, 2021, 08:14:17 AM
And in Róisín's state, Omicron cases have been reported; eighteen in all. Not a good sign.
Post by: Grade E cat on December 12, 2021, 12:38:47 PM
EDIT: To be clear, I already know there are still benefits to vaccination such as a lower probability of getting sick in the first place or getting a serious case if you do anyway. The key word above is "new".
Post by: Róisín on December 13, 2021, 07:36:36 AM
Thirteen new cases in SA today, I think a couple are Omicron. Three patients are in hospital, none in ICU. No deaths.
Had my booster shot, only side effect so far is headache and a very sore swollen arm at injection site, otherwise I seem to be okay.
Post by: RanVor on December 13, 2021, 09:55:37 AM
I swear, the government is trying to kill us all.
Post by: moredhel on December 13, 2021, 09:57:14 AM
Post by: thorny on December 13, 2021, 07:33:39 PM
New York State's governor just reinstituted mask mandates; employers can choose whether to require masks or vaccination. But all the stores, restaurants and recreational places included, are open.
Area hospitals are cancelling elective surgeries in order to keep beds open for emergencies, because they're filling up with covid patients again.
Second county over from me -- maybe some others also -- have declared local emergencies.
One county over from me and also one county over from the emergency-declaring county, they're having a four day festival intending to bring people from all over the country; and apparently succeeding in that. Much of it's scheduled for outdoors, but not all; plus which all those visitors are going to stay somewhere, and not outdoors, not in New York State even in a global-warming December; plus which some of the outdoor stuff is crowded. There was a photo in the paper of a crowd jammed together, elbow to elbow, almost none of them masked (one masked person near the front of the photo looks, to me, like she's pretty unhappy about it.) -- the paper made no comment on the lack of masks; they were just reporting hey, look at this neat festival.
Me, I've gone back to staying home as much as reasonably possible, despite having been able to score three Pfizer shots. I'm 70 with three other risk factors. One of them, unfortunately, means I'm going to have to run around getting tests done.
Oh yes -- I seem to keep editing this post. But the county with the festival? Also has a high number of vaccine refusers. (So does mine. Some of it's politics, some of it's religion.)
Post by: Lenny on December 21, 2021, 10:33:20 AM
I'm not super sure how people are going to keep to it, but it seems my grandparents' circles are taking it super seriously (and they're finally 100% on board with getting their boosters in January thank GOODNESS - even two months ago they weren't on board with that). Hopefully that's the more universal attitude? But it's going to be year 2 of Christmas and New Years in lockdown, so we'll see.
Post by: Róisín on December 26, 2021, 03:13:55 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on December 26, 2021, 05:11:22 AM
Meanwhile, we got a new newsworthy case of a fake vaccine pass. A nursing home director. Also, in the midst of our own newly established records for numbers of daily new positive cases, they are talking about January possibly becoming a mess because of too many people being on sick leave at the same time. The "SSSS prologue bingo" continues.
Post by: Róisín on December 26, 2021, 05:20:45 AM
Post by: JoB on December 27, 2021, 01:26:53 AM
Wishing you guys good luck with that would be deeply misunderstanding how viruses work.Or how tests for them work, actually. The "passing grade" for an Ag test here is that it shall flag 75+% of samples with a Ct of 25 or less ("very high virus load") as positive. Back in November, the Paul Ehrlich Institute published a survey of Ag tests sold in Germany (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.11.21257016v1) ... apparently there are some that will never ever give a positive result ...
At least we are both vaxxed, and I have had my booster shot, being immunocompromised. Star is due to have his booster next week.Best of luck getting your antibody levels up (and my booster's due in a couple days, too, thanks to making the appointment back when there was a strict "6+ months later" rule ... it's down to 3+ months (recommendation) / 4+ weeks (legal minimum) now - specifically because that's how fast the antibody levels in healthy recipients cease to provide satisfying protection against infection with omicron.)
Post by: wavewright62 on December 27, 2021, 02:13:16 AM
Post by: Róisín on December 27, 2021, 02:36:47 AM
Then we had a few interstate truckies who came here knowingly while they were infected. And a few border jumpers. Worst of all, several infected people who lied about where they had been to contact tracers or didn’t use QR codes at all, plus a few big private parties and sporting events. Plus the stupid ‘freedum’ protests, complete with American placards about things that don’t even apply in Australia - not as bad as the ones in Victoria but still superspreader events. Result, we are now back to several hundred cases a day, dammit. 774 cases yesterday. And we were so close to having no new infections.
Post by: Yastreb on December 27, 2021, 03:44:35 AM
New South Wales: 6,310
Victoria: 1,800
South Australia: 774
Queensland: 711
Australian Capital Territory: 177
Tasmania: 81
Northern Territory: 30
Western Australia: 1
That's a total of slightly under 10,000.
Post by: Róisín on December 28, 2021, 04:54:33 AM
I went to get some pathology tests today, ahead of a medical appointment for which the doctor needs to see beforehand the results of blood tests and a biopsy, for non-covid-related medical problems, and discovered that the testing service has been unexpectedly closed down between yesterday when I made the appointment for the tests and this morning when I turned up for them. Maybe something to do with the covid outbreak a week or so ago at an end of school year event very near there, which may have involved some of their staff. Most annoying for me and for the friend who had made the big trip up from the city to drive me to the appointment. Hope I don’t have to miss the specialist’s appointment for which I have waited six months. Aaarrrgggh!
Post by: JoB on December 28, 2021, 06:28:59 AM
And yesterday we had a young fool who got his positive diagnosis and proceeded to celebrate by spending the night going to several nightclubs, including the very popular ‘Loverboy’. What a murderously stupid thing to do. I gather he is one of those private school types who think the law doesn’t apply to them, and can pay the fine no problems, but the offence of knowingly spreading disease can also carry jail time, which I devoutly hope some court will enforce this time.... police is tasked not only with prosecution (of crimes past), but also prevention. Any information where biome-for-brains does his exhaling now?
I went to get some pathology tests today, ahead of a medical appointment for which the doctor needs to see beforehand the results of blood tests and a biopsy, for non-covid-related medical problems, and discovered that the testing service has been unexpectedly closed down between yesterday when I made the appointment for the tests and this morning when I turned up for them. [...] Hope I don’t have to miss the specialist’s appointment for which I have waited six months. Aaarrrgggh!I take it that there was no information posted at the (closed) door, nor to be had by calling them again (from an answering machine, if need be)? Even if the entire staff had to go to COVID quarantine from one day to the next, I'd hope that they could call someone and have him tape a list of alternative labs at the entrance ...
(Yes, yes, we have a couple doctors' offices here, too, where you get neither forewarned of their "company vacation" nor find any information anywhere once you notice their absence. I tend to remember those guys and where else to go - permanently.)
Good luck finding a competitor, whatever the tests needed and the deadline ...
Post by: Róisín on December 28, 2021, 07:19:19 AM
Post by: JoB on December 28, 2021, 09:07:16 AM
One might have hoped so, but the scribbled note taped over the hours on the door gives incorrect info, including that they are open today, and their phone rings out without even going to an answering machine. The alternate service they have in the past suggested just has a message on their phone saying that they are closed indefinitely. This is beginning to be a bit of a worry.... are the required tests unusual enough that the specialist's front desk might want to weigh in and try to dig up more addresses, now that there seem two local labs gone MIA?
Edit to add: If only we were talking about Germany, I'd suggest calling your health insurance, whatever professional organization the labs may be in, etc., up to 116117 ...
Post by: Róisín on December 29, 2021, 02:14:00 AM
Post by: tehta on December 29, 2021, 11:31:44 AM
The part of Italy I have been living in recently in has had pretty low numbers over the last few months, but things have been rising exponentially since Christmas. We just registered over 700 new cases (up from 300ish the previous day) and one in 120 people is now infected. Still better than my home in Switzerland, where it's one in 80, but the sharp increase is what's worrying.
Anyway, I am triple-vaxxed and not particularly vulnerable, so I don't have that much reason to worry for myself. But I'll be putting myself under a mini-lockdown as usual, so as not to be a spreader, so I guess we will be cancelling the NY party we were supposed to have. It shouldn't be too hard: two of the guests have already declined because they have covid...
Post by: thorny on December 29, 2021, 01:53:15 PM
I guess we will be cancelling the NY party we were supposed to have. It shouldn't be too hard: two of the guests have already declined because they have covid...
Ack!
Yes, I'd cancel that party. Hope they'll be OK.
-- my neighbor came over the other day to say hi and discuss the state of fields a bit: and didn't want to be invited inside because he had something involving coughing and sniffling. Which, a bit later in the conversation, he definitely was; though outside and at a good distance from me.
He's Old Order Mennonite, not masked, almost certainly not vaccinated, and I strongly suspect not going to be tested unless he winds up needing a hospital. Which I really hope he doesn't; but I've decided, despite having had 3 Pfizer shots myself, against taking advantage of a sale right now at the local farm supply store, which is run by Old Order and almost certainly will contain other people who are neither masked nor vaccinated.
(No, he hadn't walked through crowded sidewalks that way to get here; or on any sidewalks at all. He came across the fields, and is highly unlikely to have encountered anybody else en route, even at a distance.)
Post by: Róisín on December 30, 2021, 02:51:42 AM
Things are a bit scary today in SA. One baby has died in hospital and the case numbers are ramping up again - 1,374 new cases overnight. And a month ago we were down to just a few new cases a day, some days none at all. So much for opening up the economy. And the government has changed the regulations so that medical staff who have been exposed have to keep working after being tested unless or until they get a definite positive result. I suppose the whole idea is herd immunity, since Omicron is supposed to be less severe than other variants even if more contagious, and catching it is supposed to confer immunity to other strains. Did I mention that Australia has both State and Federal elections this year? I suppose the anti-vaxxers and those desperate for work will be glad to vote for anything that lets them work and party. I feel it could be better managed for the long term.
Post by: JoB on December 30, 2021, 03:24:06 AM
the government has changed the regulations so that medical staff who have been exposed have to keep working after being tested unless or until they get a definite positive result. I suppose the whole idea is herd immunity, since Omicron is supposed to be less severe than other variants even if more contagious, and catching it is supposed to confer immunity to other strains.Why would you hand this regulation only to medical personnel, then?
My guess would be that they're worrying about omicron spreading faster, leading to more simultaneous cases, thus more people calling in sick at once, thus critical infrastructure (like health care) in danger of failing due to lack of workforce. At least that's the stated reason why Germany is currently pondering to shorten the quarantine for symptomlessly infected from 10 days to maybe 7 or 5.
(And yes, being more infectious and less lethal in the short term is a requirement for a new strain to be able to supplant the old one(s) in an ongoing epidemic.)
Post by: wavewright62 on December 30, 2021, 04:37:26 PM
Post by: tehta on December 30, 2021, 04:47:47 PM
I plan to get up early tomorrow and hit the supermarket to stock up on a week's worth of food (and wine).
Post by: thorny on December 30, 2021, 05:30:44 PM
Post by: lumilaulu on December 30, 2021, 07:13:18 PM
(And yes, being more infectious and less lethal in the short term is a requirement for a new strain to be able to supplant the old one(s) in an ongoing epidemic.)Unless you're talking about a strain that kills very quickly, at most within a few days, being less lethal isn't a requirement to supplant a different strain. I'm not sure about alpha, but, while omicron seems to be less lethal than what came before it, delta is (unfortunately) more lethal. What alpha, delta, and omicron all have in common is that they are/were more infectious than the strain they supplanted. Alpha supplanted the original SARS-CoV-2 strain because it was more infectious, delta supplanted alpha because it was more infectious, omicron supplanted delta because it is more infectious (situation in Western Europe).
Post by: JoB on December 31, 2021, 03:02:07 AM
I plan to get up early tomorrow and hit the supermarket to stock up on a week's worth of food (and wine).
Why is some chunk of my head saying "A week's not enough!" ?Because it takes 10-14 days to get rid of an infection in the best case, so that's the yardstick for the length of the quarantine handed to people who cannot prove (with a test ...) that they're in fact not infected.
Unless you're talking about a strain that kills very quickly, at most within a few days, being less lethal isn't a requirement to supplant a different strain.... yeeaaaah, that addition might've been put in writing with infectious diseases other than COVID-19 in mind ...
Post by: thorny on December 31, 2021, 11:34:48 AM
Because it takes 10-14 days to get rid of an infection in the best case, so that's the yardstick for the length of the quarantine handed to people who cannot prove (with a test ...) that they're in fact not infected.
That's a nice fully logical reason. But I think the part of my head reacting like that is actually the bit that's been expecting The End Of The World As We Know It for about, oh, fifty years now. Mostly the rest of my head points out to that bit that it hasn't happened in 50 years so it's probably not going to happen this year either, and gets it calmed back down; but it also helps to have at any rate several week's worth of most things that keep that well on hand. Which isn't very logical, because if TEOTWAWKI did happen, several weeks wouldn't be all that much better than one week.
Post by: tehta on December 31, 2021, 12:38:17 PM
Post by: JoB on December 31, 2021, 01:32:16 PM
But I think the part of my head reacting like that is actually the bit that's been expecting The End Of The World As We Know It for about, oh, fifty years now.Can I interest
Post by: thorny on December 31, 2021, 03:04:57 PM
Looks like a list of large packages of long-term-storage food, maybe? I don't actually go in for those versions of things -- I just buy extra of things I'm using anyway, and rotate. (And I do have seed in stock, and tools, and while I only raise produce I am surrounded by field crop/livestock farms in an area that I'm sure is normally overall a net food producer; in the case of TEOTWAWKI, starvation's actually fairly low on the list of things I'd be likely to die of. It's just that the back of my head isn't entirely convinced of that. And it is a lot more convenient -- as well as currently safer -- not to have to go to the store very often, anyway.)
Post by: Róisín on December 31, 2021, 09:09:39 PM
Post by: JoB on January 01, 2022, 03:22:43 AM
JoB, I regret to tell you that I can't read that site!... yeeeaaahh I'm afraid that Germany's Federal Organization for [the Support of] Self-Protection was not very interested in internationalization/translations. :3
(It was disbanded after the Cold War.)
Spoiler: (cold) wartimes stories • show
Post by: Yastreb on January 01, 2022, 04:36:49 AM
NSW: + 21,131, with six deaths
Victoria: + 7,362, with nine deaths
Queensland: + 3,111
South Australia: + 2,085
Australian Capital Territory: +446
Tasmania: +148
Northern Territory: +63
Western Australia: + 8
Post by: Róisín on January 01, 2022, 05:40:44 AM
Post by: Yastreb on January 06, 2022, 11:04:39 PM
In Victoria, the government has decided against any real restrictions on movement and gatherings,
"[it argued that] their introduction could hurt businesses and potentially undermine public confidence in the government's pandemic response. When asked about that decision today, [Health Minister Martin] Foley said "most of those recommendations" were turned into orders, such as the rules around face masks. In regards to the balancing of economic, social, mental health, cultural and just family reasons, that was the appropriate decision. Now with further information and further data available to us and after consultation with a wide range of groups I've made this decision thinking it to be an appropriate, necessary and proportionate balancing of competing demands."
He went on to say that there were no plans for another lockdown, calling it "a 2020/2021 iteration," adding that "such high levels of transmission" meant Victorians had to "coexist" with the virus.
Once we showed the world how to fight the pandemic. Now we're just not bothering.
Post by: Yastreb on January 08, 2022, 08:39:14 AM
Post by: Jitter on January 08, 2022, 03:55:16 PM
Here in the capital area hospitals are swamped, partially because of number of patients and partially because doctors and especially nurses are sick or in quarantine. All hospital beds are not in use because there is not enough staff to operate them. There is genuine concern that health care will become overwhelmed in the bigger cities at least over the next few weeks.
A positive glimpse is that here, like elsewhere, the very serious infections are so far rarer with omicron than with the earlier variants. So need for intensive care has not exploded, at least as of yet. We have over half a million unvaccinated adults however, and some of those insist on gathering together to protest the restrictions, so... they want to test whether it's true that omicron is indeed milder. Schools are starting on Monday in most of Finland, no one knows what that will bring. We are also having an election during January, I predict very low voting activity.
On a more worrying side, an expert group on Long Covid that was started in the autumn 2021 have come to the conclusion that possibly up to half of adults who get the virus also get long covid symptoms. Not all of them will be very serious, but it's a staggering number. I for example already suffer from fatigue and brain fog, I would prefer not to get any more that.
I get a bit miffed with the comments on the lines of "only high risk people die / get hospitalized / etc." I am high risk, do they mean it doesn't matter if I die, or become unable to work? It matters to me! (I have so far three shots, I'm not likely to die and even long covid symptoms tend to be easier on the vaccinated, but still. Not nice.)
Post by: tehta on January 08, 2022, 04:05:17 PM
Where I am, it's 1 in 27 (and rising every day). Florence is 1 in 20. One of my colleagues in Switzerland lives in a town where it's 1 in 18.
Post by: Grade E cat on January 08, 2022, 04:57:07 PM
Post by: Jitter on January 08, 2022, 08:24:56 PM
Post by: Róisín on January 08, 2022, 10:53:14 PM
In the absence of adequate testing I am quite sure that the case numbers are being greatly under-reported anyway. Bad times.
Post by: JoB on January 09, 2022, 02:21:25 AM
There are first estimates that the vaccination rate required to stop the spread (sans lots of infection-induced immunization) in Germany, stated as 80% for variants up to and including Delta, would be rather like 95% for omicron¹. Yippie. We have enough anti-vaxxers not to reach even the old number ...
¹ I'm unclear on what part of the populace that percentage takes as the 100%; I think the media are prone to mix up numbers related to "entire population" and "old enough to be eligible for vaccination". The "age 65+" bracket officially does have a vaccination rate of 80+%.
Post by: deadrose on January 11, 2022, 09:40:56 PM
I got my booster a few days before Christmas, along with my flu shot and my shingles vaccine. Made for a couple of entertaining days, especially since they used both arms. My husband's getting his in a couple of days. In the mean time, we've gone back to isolating as much as possible. It was easy at Christmas, his entire family have gone antivax, so we just stayed home.
Post by: Opaque on January 12, 2022, 12:44:52 AM
Post by: Róisín on January 12, 2022, 03:42:31 AM
Also just discovered that my small bush town has a new cluster of infections. I only heard this through being told that a meeting I was due to attend tomorrow morning has been cancelled because some of the people who were meant to be there are unable to come because they are part of this new cluster, which hasn’t rated a mention in the news at all. And the regular testing system is breaking down completely, with day-long queues in extreme heat, at the end of which many people can’t be tested anyway. Not good. And Australia had been doing so well until the borders opened up because ‘the economy’. Aaarrrgggh!
Post by: Yastreb on January 12, 2022, 05:35:26 AM
In the last six days there have been 483,557 new cases, with 176 deaths. Considering that the total cases of COVID-19 in Australia have reached just under 1.25 million, that's a shockingly large spike.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 12, 2022, 05:42:09 PM
Fortunately, those who formulate government policy have not listened to them (yet).
Post by: Yastreb on January 13, 2022, 07:05:19 AM
Post by: Jitter on January 13, 2022, 02:05:50 PM
Now I’m not an immunologist so I may well be wrong! But Finland has been coping well so far, and we have also hit the wall with everyone else in Europe.
It seems there’s nothing else to it than sit tight, cross fingers and fervently hope no one you care about is going to need hospital care, either for covid or for anything else.
Post by: Róisín on January 14, 2022, 04:55:44 AM
Hillsong is the Church whose founding ‘Pastor’ is a man currently on charges of concealing sexual molestation charges against one of his family members. Our Prime Minister, Morrison, has acknowledged this man as a mentor, and last year tried to get him an audience with Donald Trump at a dinner party. The Trump White House chose to distance itself from the scandal at the time.
Hillsong will not be fined, according to today’s news. Superspreader event? When it is difficult to get permission for one singer at a regular church service, and music venues are being closed all over the country? Rank hath its privileges.
Post by: thorny on January 14, 2022, 08:51:17 AM
Post by: midwestmutt on January 14, 2022, 09:48:00 AM
Post by: Opaque on January 14, 2022, 10:02:09 AM
But, yeah. That church needs to stay away from any children. They've got a history (according to wikipedia).
Midwestmutt that sounds rough. Hope she's okay. Death is never easy to cope with.
Post by: Lenny on January 14, 2022, 10:50:45 AM
Post by: Róisín on January 17, 2022, 01:31:01 AM
Covid infection figures in Australia are getting worse, which is scary, and in the wake of the recent fuss about a probably non-vaccinated Serbian tennis player, who had been given a special exemption to come to Australia to play in the Australian Open by one branch of the government and then chucked out and deported by the federal government when the PM needed to brandish his toughness, it all gets very confusing. Especially since the PM has said that the reason for deporting Djokovic is in case he becomes an anti-vaccination icon.
It is now being suggested that the PM should do something to bring to heel the members of his own party who are being openly anti-vax on social media and are actively agitating against vaccine mandates. Personally I think that insisting that staff in nursing homes, hospitals and such be vaccinated is a good idea. Politics, bloody politics.
Post by: wavewright62 on January 17, 2022, 03:11:58 AM
I wonder whether the dude is actually not fit to play and has negotiated an exit that can be utilised later for political gain by both camps.
*smacks tinfoil hat off head* Who put that there?
Post by: Grade E cat on January 17, 2022, 03:17:51 AM
Covid infection figures in Australia are getting worse, which is scary, and in the wake of the recent fuss about a probably non-vaccinated Serbian tennis player, who had been given a special exemption to come to Australia to play in the Australian Open by one branch of the government and then chucked out and deported by the federal government when the PM needed to brandish his toughness, it all gets very confusing. Especially since the PM has said that the reason for deporting Djokovic is in case he becomes an anti-vaccination icon.
Considering a hashtag I noticed trending while checking Twitter recently, I'm afraid you can scrap the "in case".
Post by: JoB on January 17, 2022, 03:30:47 AM
and then chucked out and deported by the federal government when the PM needed to brandish his toughnessDunno whether I'd want to believe that that was his entire motivation. The federal government has stated that there never was any exemption in the legalese allowing unvaccinated people to be permitted in, and it has been said that the PM was at liberty to make a final ruling, even in the spirit of said legalese if he so chooses, rather than merely revisiting lower levels' decisions and correct whatever mistakes he finds there.
I have to say that I'd like to hear the first judge explain his reasoning, though. By allowing Djokovic to remain, in my opinion, he either stated that the feds' statement "no exemptions" was a falsehood, or that the causa Djokovic was somehow above that law (possible IMHO, but sure merits an explanation). Which one was it, your honor ... ?
Personally I think that insisting that staff in nursing homes, hospitals and such be vaccinated is a good idea. Politics, bloody politics.It is a good idea as long as you can get enough staff with that additional qualification, and there are enough people who think that that can be done that several nations already made that mandatory (France) or are very likely to follow suit (Germany).
General mandatory vaccination is a much stranger beast, alas. I think that it would still be a good idea, what with our vaccination rate being 75%-ish and the rate thought necessary to keep the 5th wave well manageable having been upped to 95% by omicron, but that alone doesn't make such a thing legal for our federal gvt to enact. In order to suspend constitutional rights, the suspension must be demonstrated to be strictly necessary, and mandatory vaccination is too late for the current 4th wave while the variant promising to fuel the 5th, omicron, has several renowned epidemiologists thinking about whether that might already be the one changing COVID-19 from a pandemic to an endemic illness ...
Post by: JoB on January 17, 2022, 04:00:06 PM
Dunno whether I'd want to believe that that was his entire motivation. The federal government has stated that there never was any exemption in the legalese allowing unvaccinated people to be permitted in, and it has been said that the PM was at liberty to make a final ruling, even in the spirit of said legalese if he so chooses, rather than merely revisiting lower levels' decisions and correct whatever mistakes he finds there.OK, two corrections, lest someone beats me to it:
I have to say that I'd like to hear the first judge explain his reasoning, though. By allowing Djokovic to remain, in my opinion, he either stated that the feds' statement "no exemptions" was a falsehood, or that the causa Djokovic was somehow above that law (possible IMHO, but sure merits an explanation). Which one was it, your honor ... ?
- The decision wasn't the PM's, but up to minister Alex Hawke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Hawke). Morrison merely publicly welcomed the result.
- The first court decision was based on Djokovic's side not having gotten the time to properly prepare their case. So, not above the law, but not yet fully under its rule.
Post by: Opaque on January 17, 2022, 04:12:22 PM
This is completely unacceptable. I really, really don't like Oklahoma right now...
Post by: Róisín on January 18, 2022, 04:07:39 AM
And the medical centre down there, where one of my cousins is a doctor, has been authorised to get a lot of vaccines, but no refrigerated transport or storage has been provided for the doses. The doctors are trying to get a refrigerated truck to get the doses there from Adelaide and store them. There’s nothing like organisation……
Post by: tehta on January 18, 2022, 04:49:35 AM
Post by: Róisín on January 27, 2022, 04:26:00 AM
Post by: Grade E cat on January 27, 2022, 12:08:25 PM
Post by: Yastreb on July 07, 2022, 12:00:13 AM
I recall posting how Victoria had managed to achieve zero-zero... that seems foolish fantasy now.
Post by: midwestmutt on July 07, 2022, 11:19:37 AM
Post by: wavewright62 on July 17, 2022, 03:03:12 AM
One band was down 10 players, another one 9, out of a maximum of 31 allowed on stage. The rules about how many players from other bands you were allowed to co-opt were stretched to their limits and dispensations freely handed out. More participants went down as the competition went on. One band took the stage with their top 5 cornets all out - nos. 6 & 8 played the unfamiliar top two spots (including the principal's solos), they got someone from another band to take the no. 3 seat, and they rewrote parts to get the 2 players left to cover the 3 bottom parts, which were normally handled by 5-6 players.
I ended up practically stapling a mask onto my face and taking up full duties for 3 of the 4 days, allowing myself a morning off before going out to the airport. I saw EVERYBODY, in the course of my functions, which was fun, but didn't really got a chance to sit and eat or socialise with anybody. I'm also seeing many anecdotes of people who caught it while down there.
I had a negative RAT test today, so I seem to have somehow missed getting it? How? I will continue monitoring.
Post by: Róisín on July 17, 2022, 06:04:22 AM
Post by: Róisín on July 26, 2022, 02:13:49 AM
Yastreb is right about the recent death tolls in Australia. I think the mask mandates and travel restrictions were lifted far too early, but you can’t tell people who are desperate for work just to pay for rent and food, or who just want to get out and party, or governments that are more interested in keeping people happy so their votes stay high than in keeping the people safe, and care more about the economy than about the survival of the individual workers who produce the profits…..there will always be more people desperate enough to work in unsafe conditions while workers are kept poor.
Post by: wavewright62 on July 26, 2022, 11:17:25 PM
Post by: Róisín on July 26, 2022, 11:54:07 PM
And isn’t it so tempting to forget that you are old? I was showing a kid how to use a quarterstaff recently, and forgot that I am in my eighties for a moment. It felt good to extend myself and use old skills, but the shoulders and forearms certainly felt it afterwards!
Post by: Yastreb on July 27, 2022, 07:24:54 AM
Masks here are supposedly compulsory on public transport, though this is never enforced to my knowledge, and elsewhere it's purely voluntary.
Post by: Yastreb on July 30, 2022, 05:36:00 AM
It's been the worst month for Australia since the pandemic began.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-30/victoria-covid-19-deaths-hospitalisations-cases-winter-omicron/101277326 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-30/victoria-covid-19-deaths-hospitalisations-cases-winter-omicron/101277326)
According to the article, infections may have peaked.
We can but wait and see.
Post by: Jitter on August 04, 2022, 04:04:52 PM
Finland’s approach to the pandemic is (again?) a mess. Some of officials are calling for downgrading Covid into a normal infectious disease (as opposed to specific pandemic / public threat status) while others are demanding fourth shots for everyone asap. Finland is currently giving fourth vaccines to the very elderly, but no decisions as to when everyone else will be getting it have been made.
Incidentally (or probably there is a connection, hmmm 🤔) emergency care is in shambles in many areas of the country. There is a shortage of nurses in particular, and ward closures over the summer have resulted in emergency rooms choking with patients coming in but not getting to actual wards for further care. So let’s hope I don’t get so badly that I would need to go in, because sitting around for 10 hours with other sick people is likely to cause more harm than good for anyone.
Post by: dmeck7755 on August 05, 2022, 09:59:32 AM
I just tested positive. No surprise, I’ve been terribly ill for days (feeling like a bad case of flu, not like I was actually about to die). This is the first in out family, which is a bit of a feat considering how both boys have been to school and the elder worked as a security guard for a hypermarket over the summer. So anyways I feel like crab.
Oh no!! I know you will take care...I hope it passes quickly with no ill effects...
Finland’s approach to the pandemic is (again?) a mess. Some of officials are calling for downgrading Covid into a normal infectious disease (as opposed to specific pandemic / public threat status) while others are demanding fourth shots for everyone asap. Finland is currently giving fourth vaccines to the very elderly, but no decisions as to when everyone else will be getting it have been made.
I think Finland is not alone. In the US (my state) they do not even talk about it much any longer. They are pretty much treating it as endemic. (Only to mention a new variant, and the Ads to get vaxxed) Though it is/was back in the news when the president tested positive... People are still getting sick. My work requires people to be vaxxed and boostered. Quite a few co-workers still got very sick. So it is still a very frightening thing.
Incidentally (or probably there is a connection, hmmm 🤔) emergency care is in shambles in many areas of the country. There is a shortage of nurses in particular, and ward closures over the summer have resulted in emergency rooms choking with patients coming in but not getting to actual wards for further care. So let’s hope I don’t get so badly that I would need to go in, because sitting around for 10 hours with other sick people is likely to cause more harm than good for anyone.
Yeah, I think nurses are in short supply everywhere. Hopefully you will recover and not need to go anywhere.
I am rooting for you!!!
Post by: Yastreb on November 17, 2022, 04:42:34 AM
Damn it.
Post by: Yastreb on January 31, 2024, 10:08:16 PM
Post by: Keep Looking on February 01, 2024, 09:08:52 AM
Post by: Róisín on February 01, 2024, 10:12:29 PM