Post by: viola on May 26, 2015, 04:47:56 PM
This can be an area for practising conversation, asking questions about grammar, sharing resources, etc. If there are people who want to organize a skype chat or something similar that can also be done here.
Here is a starting list of free resources for learning Icelandic online. If you have any additions, let me know so I can add them to the list.
Icelandic Online - http://icelandiconline.is/index.html
a website created by Háskóli Íslands (the University of Iceland) that has a series of Icelandic lessons ranging from beginner to the C1 level (thanks to Laufey for this one)
Íslenska fyrir alla - http://tungumalatorg.is/ifa/
a series of four books in pdf form with grammar exercises and listening activities
Mímir - http://www.dettifoss.org/
basic outline of Icelandic grammar/parts of speech and how to use them
BÍN - http://bin.arnastofnun.is/DMII/
a database that shows conjugations of verbs and declensions of nouns. Make sure you read the directions on the home page. Laufey mentioned in the Nordic Languages topic that it can be confusing for beginners to use, because you have to have all the proper letters and accents in order to get the word you are looking for. This is a link to translations of the different parts of speech: http://bin.arnastofnun.is/DMII/frame/ If it's still confusing, let me know, and I can do a walk through of all the parts of speech and how to find things.
Icelandic-English Dictionary - http://enis.dict.cc/
if someone finds a better one, please let me know
200ish Words in Icelandic - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x5t1FcW22GmmR54GeuxQuDU483CLzpICztTtt4Z6360/edit?usp=sharing
a thing that I made for the Language Experiment thread, I can add more words/explanations to it as well
World's Awesomest Blog about Iceland and Icelandic - http://blogs.transparent.com/icelandic/icelandic-language-blog/
This is actually Laufey's blog. Everyone should read it. It's awesome. And gives really good grammar advice.
IMX - http://www.icelandmusic.is/
basically the official website of everything you want to know about the bands and music coming from Iceland
Útvarp (radio) - http://www.visir.is/section/MEDIA02 and http://xn--rv-rka.is/ras1 or http://xn--rv-rka.is/ras-2
these sites are places where you can stream Icelandic radio for free, you can also use them to find news articles and TV (some of the TV will not work if you are outside of Iceland)
Icelandic Cinema Online - http://www.icelandiccinema.com/
this is a website that lets you rent Icelandic movies digitally, some movies are free and some cost a few euros, but most of them are offered with English subs
If you have any other questions or comments feel free to let me know, I check this forum way more often than I probably should. :P
Post by: ParanormalAndroid on May 26, 2015, 05:39:58 PM
I can say "takk", and I can sing along to Hoppipolla...
Love Icelandic.
Post by: Piney on May 26, 2015, 06:16:42 PM
Bwah, me please!
I can say "takk", and I can sing along to Hoppipolla...
Love Icelandic.
I don't think I'm committed enough to learn Icelandic, but I've jokingly considered adding the flag to my signature saying "Bits and pieces from Sigur Rós songs" :)
Post by: ParanormalAndroid on May 26, 2015, 06:20:55 PM
I don't think I'm committed enough to learn Icelandic, but I've jokingly considered adding the flag to my signature saying "Bits and pieces from Sigur Rós songs" :)This is exactly how I plan to learn Icelandic.
Post by: Mélusine on May 26, 2015, 06:35:36 PM
I can say "takk", and I can sing along to Hoppipolla...I can only say "takk" too, and I'm too afraid of singing absolutely wrong words to try Hoppipolla ^^ (But choir on Með Blóðnasir is perfect.)
This is exactly how I plan to learn Icelandic.Funny, I assume Sigur Rós is more magical for me because I can't understand the lyrics, so my mind can stay absolutely free and imagine anything :)
What is written is often different of what you're hearing, so icelandic seems... a strange and beautiful language :) *Go back to improve her english before everything else*
Post by: viola on May 26, 2015, 07:19:46 PM
This is exactly how I plan to learn Icelandic.
Oh my goodness! More Sigur Rós fans!! Yay! This is wonderful! And bonus points to you guys for actually being able to sing along with Jónsi's voice. ;) I saw them in concert two years ago and it was amazing.
For the record, I have found music a wonderful way to learn languages. When I started Danish, I made sure I had some good Danish music, same thing with Swedish, Norwegian, and German. I found that if I looked up the lyrics and translations, I could learn a lot of vocabulary and remember it easily because the songs got stuck in my head. Singing along while following the written words is also a good way to start working on pronunciation.
I actually just spent the last two years of my life writing about Icelandic music, so I am quite experienced in that area. If you guys want I can post the lyrics to a song and you guys can work on translating them, it might be good vocab practice. I can help if you get stuck. We can even start with a Sigur Rós song if you want, since you already know them. The only problem with using some Sigur Rós songs is that it can sometimes be hard to understand exactly what Jónsi is saying, especially since often sings in vonlenska (hopelandic).
Let me know if you like the song idea, and if you know what songs you want (we can do bands that are not SR too). I'm going to add some links for Icelandic music in the topic post so that you can explore on your own as well.
Post by: ParanormalAndroid on May 26, 2015, 07:23:56 PM
Also, is there anything you want in return? Like, another language that we know?
Post by: JoB on May 26, 2015, 07:25:15 PM
This is exactly how I plan to learn Icelandic.Don't complain when the natives later tell you that you have a "singsong" accent, though. ;)
Post by: ParanormalAndroid on May 26, 2015, 09:04:04 PM
Don't complain when the natives later tell you that you have a "singsong" accent, though. ;)Hah, very good. But, you know, performing won't be an issue.
Post by: Mélusine on May 27, 2015, 03:54:12 AM
We can even start with a Sigur Rós song if you want, since you already know them. The only problem with using some Sigur Rós songs is that it can sometimes be hard to understand exactly what Jónsi is saying, especially since often sings in vonlenska (hopelandic).*Obliging*
Post by: viola on May 27, 2015, 08:06:36 AM
Here are the lyrics as seen in the video:
Verse 1:
þú vissir af mér
ég vissi af þér
við vissum alltaf að
þetta myndi enda
þú missir af mér
ég missi af þér
missum báða fætur
undan okkar
nú liggjum við á
öll ísköld og blá
skjálfandi á beinum
hálfdauðir úr kulda
ísjaki
Chorus:
þú segir aldrei neitt
þú ert ísjaki
þú ert ísilagður
þú þegir þunnu hljóði
og felur þig bakvið
ísjaka
Verse 2:
þú kveikir í mér
ég kveiki í þér
við kveikjum við bál
brennisteinar loga
það neistar af mér
það neistar af þér
neistar af okkur
brennum upp til ösku
ísjaki
To start off, ísjaki means iceberg :)
Post by: Ana Nymus on May 27, 2015, 10:54:56 PM
Also, if there are any Mac users out there, I just want to share with you how you get letters like ð and þ and æ, because a lot of them aren't available with the normal keyboard, and it took me forever to figure out how to get some of these letters without copying and pasting. You can switch your keyboard something like "English extended" and get a whole bunch of symbols in addition to the default keyboard. This site down below has instructions for how to do that thing:
http://symbolcodes.tlt.psu.edu/accents/codemacext.html (http://symbolcodes.tlt.psu.edu/accents/codemacext.html)
To get þ, use option-T
To get ð, use option-D
To get æ, use option-'
To get any of the letters with right-facing accents (líké thís) use option-e and then type the letter you want
To get ö, use option-U + O
And those are (I think) all the relevant ones. I don't know if anyone actually needed this guide, but I would've found it really useful and so I'm putting it out there.
P.S. The reason I know these things is because my crazy friend (her words, not mine) texts me in Icelandic and gets songs stuck in my head, and so now I need a ð key :P
Post by: Piney on May 28, 2015, 12:12:29 AM
To get þ, use option-T
To get ð, use option-D
To get æ, use option-'
To get any of the letters with right-facing accents (líké thís) use option-e and then type the letter you want
To get ö, use option-U + O
And those are (I think) all the relevant ones. I don't know if anyone actually needed this guide, but I would've found it really useful and so I'm putting it out there.
And of course there's always the trusty 'hold down the vowel key and pick from the menu' trick.
Post by: Ana Nymus on May 28, 2015, 06:53:05 AM
Post by: Piney on May 28, 2015, 09:26:07 AM
True, true. But I don't think you can get þ and ð like that. Or can you? Sorry, I have to go press all the buttons on my keyboard now :P
Nah, still have to change the keyboard to US Extended for those. :P
Post by: Cat Is in the Moon on May 28, 2015, 11:46:54 AM
Post by: viola on May 28, 2015, 04:09:02 PM
Post by: ruth on May 28, 2015, 08:34:07 PM
Ég ætli ég skal byrja með að segja að ég læri mig íslensku af því að ég fer til Íslands í tvær vikur! Ég er mjög spennt fyrir ferðinni, en og smá óvær...ég kann skrifa nokkrar smáhluti án að eiga að leita eftir orð í orðabók, en að tala er jú nokkuð annað. Það er vandinn...ef ég á að lesa nokkuð er allt í lagi. Orð á íslensku er oft ekki svo ólík frá orð á sænsku eða norsku, sértaklega einföldu orðin. En að heyra orðin...eða að muna þau til að kunna segja þau...ég veit ekki enn hvort ég get það! Og ættum við ekki einu sinni nefna föllin...ég trúi, ég mun heyrast mjög...kjánaleg. (jæja, víst heyrist ég þegar kjánaleg.)
En það nægir um mig. Hvað er að frétta hjá ykkur?
:uk: OKAY THEN. I've wanted to write something on this thread since I saw it, but I haven't had time until just now to say anything.
I guess I'll start by saying that I'm learning Icelandic because I'm visiting Iceland in two weeks, how fun! I'm really excited for the trip, but also a little nervous...I can write some little things without having to look them up in the dictionary (i.e. NOT ACTUALLY AS MUCH AS I JUST WROTE), but speaking is...well, it's something else entirely. That's kind of the problem, if I'm reading something it's mostly okay. Words in Icelandic are often not so different from words in Swedish or Norwegian, especially the simple words. But to hear them, or to remember them to be able to say them when I'm speaking out loud...well, I'm not quite sure yet how I'll manage with that! And let's not even mention the cases...I think I'm going to sound kind of silly out loud. (Well, I probably already do!)
But that's enough about me. What's up with you guys?
Post by: viola on May 29, 2015, 05:19:21 PM
Hvaðan ertu? Ég er frá Kanada en ég hef búið á New Jersey og California líka. Ég er að fara til Íslands í júlí, kannski mun ég sjá þig. Lestu bækur á íslensku? Ég elska að lesa glæpasögur, mér finnst þær svo spennandi! :D
Ertu með íslenskar kvikmyndir eða teiknimyndir? Þú getur notað þær til að læra að skilja orð betur, en ég veit að það er erfitt að finna þær í Ontario. Kannski þegar fæ ég nýja tölvu við getum talað á skype eða eitthvað.
:uk:
Spoiler: show
Post by: ruth on May 29, 2015, 06:05:12 PM
:iceland: Hæ ruth! Gaman að hitta þig! Þú talar góða íslensku :)
Hvaðan ertu? Ég er frá Kanada en ég hef búið á New Jersey og California líka. Ég er að fara til Íslands í júlí, kannski mun ég sjá þig. Lestu bækur á íslensku? Ég elska að lesa glæpasögur, mér finnst þær svo spennandi! :D
Ertu með íslenskar kvikmyndir eða teiknimyndir? Þú getur notað þær til að læra að skilja orð betur, en ég veit að það er erfitt að finna þær í Ontario. Kannski þegar fæ ég nýja tölvu við getum talað á skype eða eitthvað.
:uk:Spoiler: show
:iceland: Hæ og þakka þér fyrir, FTV! Það er líka gaman að hitta þig. :)
Ég var fædd í Bandaríkjunum, en ég hef líka búið í Kanada í eitt ár. Ég læra á háskóla hér, en ég kom upprunalega til að búa með kærustuna mína. Ég hef ekki lesið eitthvað á íslensku enn, hins ég vil gera það...ég þarf bara geta lesið fyrst! Ef þú hefur tillögu að nokkur sem skilur bara einfalda íslensku gæti skilja, mér vildi líka hafa eitthvað til að lesa!
Því miður munum við ekki sjáumst á Íslandi...ég mun vera þarna bara milli 12–21 júní.
Ég get gjarna gefið Skypenafnið mitt á PM, checka það :)
:uk:
Spoiler: show
Post by: Laufey on May 29, 2015, 07:09:26 PM
Það er svo afskaplega gaman að hafa fleira íslenskumælandi fólk hér í foruminu! Þeim sem langar að finna efni til að æfa sig með gætu kannski kíkt á þessar frábærar bækur, sérstaklega ef þið eruð á leiðinni hér í sumar:
* Bókasafn ömmu Huldar eftir Þórarinn Leifsson (en hún er oft uppseld)
* Ríólít reglan (http://www.eymundsson.is/nanar/?productid=8da3847c-ecdb-4794-9549-3e1e3d19c962) eftir Kristín Helga Gunnarsdóttir
* Skugga-Baldur (http://www.eymundsson.is/nanar/?productid=69cc4a5b-2bea-4e67-a92c-ecdd07d80d11) eftir Sjón
Þið getið fundið þeim til dæmis í Eymundsson (http://www.eymundsson.is/).
Aaaand almost forgot the English translation oops. :D
Spoiler: show
Post by: ruth on May 29, 2015, 08:01:31 PM
:iceland:
Það er svo afskaplega gaman að hafa fleira íslenskumælandi fólk hér í foruminu! Þeim sem langar að finna efni til að æfa sig með gætu kannski kíkt á þessar frábærar bækur, sérstaklega ef þið eruð á leiðinni hér í sumar:
* Bókasafn ömmu Huldar eftir Þórarinn Leifsson (en hún er oft uppseld)
* Ríólít reglan (http://www.eymundsson.is/nanar/?productid=8da3847c-ecdb-4794-9549-3e1e3d19c962) eftir Kristín Helga Gunnarsdóttir
* Skugga-Baldur (http://www.eymundsson.is/nanar/?productid=69cc4a5b-2bea-4e67-a92c-ecdd07d80d11) eftir Sjón
Þið getið fundið þeim til dæmis í Eymundsson (http://www.eymundsson.is/).
Aaaand almost forgot the English translation oops. :DSpoiler: show
:iceland: Þakka þér líka fyrir tillögurnar og velkominn (er það nafnorð?), Laufey! Ég vona að ég mun bæta íslenskuna mina nægilega til að geta spjallað með ykkur. Fyrr en þá, ég mun gera besta mitt!
:uk: Thanks to you too for your suggestions and your welcome (is that how you do the noun?), Laufey! I hope I can improve my Icelandic enough to be able to chat with you guys, but before then, I'll do my best!
Post by: viola on May 31, 2015, 06:51:58 PM
:iceland: Þakka þér líka fyrir tillögurnar og velkominn (er það nafnorð?), Laufey! Ég vona að ég mun bæta íslenskuna mina nægilega til að geta spjallað með ykkur. Fyrr en þá, ég mun gera besta mitt!
:uk: Thanks to you too for your suggestions and your welcome (is that how you do the noun?), Laufey! I hope I can improve my Icelandic enough to be able to chat with you guys, but before then, I'll do my best!
:iceland: Ég held að þú getir notað "viðtaka" eins og "takk fyrir góða viðtöku".
Spoiler: show
Post by: Sunflower on June 02, 2015, 07:57:59 PM
The specific story I heard was apparently the 2nd podcast in a series, and isn't available online yet.
But yesterday's story (16 minutes) is available here: http://www.pri.org/node/80480/embedded
Print version, if you prefer it (slightly different from audio transcript): http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-06-01/future-icelandic-language-may-lie-its-past
EDIT:
And here's the sequel: The future of Icelandic.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-06-02/will-icelanders-one-day-ditch-icelandic-english
It's quite relevant to our interests, as it discusses the future of the Icelandic language, whether it'll get replaced by English, and how to get more people interested in learning it. If the Icelandic bureaucrats knew what SSSS is doing to revive interest in Icelandic, they'd nominate Minna for a medal!
Post by: viola on June 03, 2015, 11:55:41 PM
Earlier today, I heard a story on public radio about the Icelandic language, which I thought you'd all enjoy.Takk fyrir! :D
The specific story I heard was apparently the 2nd podcast in a series, and isn't available online yet.
But yesterday's story (16 minutes) is available here: http://www.pri.org/node/80480/embedded
Print version, if you prefer it (slightly different from audio transcript): http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-06-01/future-icelandic-language-may-lie-its-past
EDIT:
And here's the sequel: The future of Icelandic.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-06-02/will-icelanders-one-day-ditch-icelandic-english
It's quite relevant to our interests, as it discusses the future of the Icelandic language, whether it'll get replaced by English, and how to get more people interested in learning it. If the Icelandic bureaucrats knew what SSSS is doing to revive interest in Icelandic, they'd nominate Minna for a medal!
I just listened to the first half, this is pretty interesting. I plan on listening to the other half tomorrow on the bus. Did you hear it on NPR? I used to listen to NPR all the time when I lived in Cali. KCLU.
It's interesting because in Canada the Icelandic sometimes gets mashed a lot more with English than it would in Iceland (for obvious reasons). I read a poem once, written to illustrate this mashing and I will see if I can find it again to post here.
Also let's totally see if we can get Minna nominated for this medal ;) Although then they might get ideas from her comic and try out some plauges on the rest of the world to keep the language alive :o
Post by: viola on June 07, 2015, 09:40:19 PM
Winnipeg Icelander
by Guttormur Guttormsson
Eg fór on' í Main street með fimm dala cheque
Og forty eight riffil mér kaupti
Og ride út á Country með farmara fékk,
Svo fresh út í brushin eg hlaupti.
En þá sá eg moose, út í marshi það lá,
O my- eina sticku eg brjótti!
Þá fór það á gallop, not good anyhow,
Var gone þegar loksins eg skjótti.
Að repeata aftur eg reyndi' ekki at all,
En ran like a dog heim til Watkins.
En þar var þá Nickie með hot alcohol.
Já, hart er að beata Nick Ottins.
Hann startaði singing, sá söngur var queer
Og soundaði funny, I tell you.
Eg tendaði meira hans brandy og beer,-
You bet, Nick er liberal fellow.
Og sick á að tracka hann settist við booze,
Be sure, að hann Nickie sig staupti.
Hann hafði' ekki í lukku í mánuð við moose
Af Mathews hann rjúpu því kaupti.
-Í Winnipeg seg'r ann að talsverðan trick
Það taki að fira á rjúpu
Og sportsmann að gagni að gefa 'enni lick,
En God - hún sé stuffið í súpu.
Við tókum til Winnipeg trainið-a fly,
Nick treataði always so kindly.
Hann lofði mér rjúpuna' að bera' upp í bæ
Eg borgaði fyrir það, mind ye.
Svo dressaði Nick hana' í dinnerin sinni
Og duglega upp 'ana stoppti,
Bauð Dana McMillan í dinnerinn sinn,
„Eg drepti 'ana,“ „sagði' ann, „á lofti.“
Post by: Ana Nymus on June 08, 2015, 10:24:16 AM
Sorry for the double post, but I found the poem I mentioned earlier. It's supposed to "poke fun" at the way Western Icelanders mix English when speaking Icelandic (it also happens to be a surprisingly accurate depiction of the way Viola thinks... ::)).
Winnipeg Icelander
by Guttormur Guttormsson
(... that)
Urk. My brain hurts now.
Post by: ruth on June 08, 2015, 09:44:54 PM
I tried explaining to my partner why it was so awesome this morning, but she just gave me a funny look. I guess it's just a language nerd thing to get excited by all that code-switching.
Post by: viola on June 08, 2015, 11:08:39 PM
I love this, Viola! If you're up for it, it would be awesome to hear it spoken aloud; I imagine it would have a really cool rhythm.
Þú vilt heyra það? Uuuuuuuhhhhhhhmmmmm... Hér? Nú? Ég? Tala? Með rödd? *kannski er hrædd* I may suffer from huge stage fright, including the recording of my voice...
I tried explaining to my partner why it was so awesome this morning, but she just gave me a funny look. I guess it's just a language nerd thing to get excited by all that code-switching.
Language nerds unite!!! Personally, stuff like this fascinates me because it's technically not in a language and therefore not understandable by someone who only knows one language. I was talking to Laufey earlier about this and how sometimes things cannot be translated because then they lose their meaning. Here is the example I sent her:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SHndkY8xd2fkSrkiQylCoJPjfeMt7gSWzb3XQFAPTmA=w904-h675-no)
This passage makes me happy for no other reason than it would be really hard to translate the meaning into English (well actually in context the joke is really funny too), and yet you need to know English in order to understand what they are talking about.
(if someone asks for it I can translate it to english, but some parts won't quite work the same way)
Post by: Laufey on June 09, 2015, 04:36:09 AM
I love this, Viola! If you're up for it, it would be awesome to hear it spoken aloud; I imagine it would have a really cool rhythm.
I tried explaining to my partner why it was so awesome this morning, but she just gave me a funny look. I guess it's just a language nerd thing to get excited by all that code-switching.
Btw it does have a really cool rhythm. :D I'd try recording it but I'm not entirely sure how some of those words are supposed to be pronounced:
- Why's ég always written as eg instead, and am I supposed to pronounce it as eg and not ég?
- Sometimes I'm not sure which language pronunciation I'm supposed to follow: I get that riffil is a loan word (rifle) but am I supposed so read it as "ræffl" or "riffil"?
- Same with fira, should it be "færa" or "fira"? I assume the latter "a" is pronounced because else the rhythm will sound a bit lacking.
- A non-Icelandic problem: is Dana pronounced as "day-nah" or dah-nah"?
Post by: Ana Nymus on June 09, 2015, 06:46:39 AM
- A non-Icelandic problem: is Dana pronounced as "day-nah" or dah-nah"?
All the people I know who have that name pronounce it "day-nah".
Post by: viola on June 09, 2015, 08:16:04 AM
Btw it does have a really cool rhythm. :D I'd try recording it but I'm not entirely sure how some of those words are supposed to be pronounced:
- Why's ég always written as eg instead, and am I supposed to pronounce it as eg and not ég?
- Sometimes I'm not sure which language pronunciation I'm supposed to follow: I get that riffil is a loan word (rifle) but am I supposed so read it as "ræffl" or "riffil"?
- Same with fira, should it be "færa" or "fira"? I assume the latter "a" is pronounced because else the rhythm will sound a bit lacking.
- A non-Icelandic problem: is Dana pronounced as "day-nah" or dah-nah"?
I found a recording by the author. The only problem is that it doesn't work on my computer. Maybe if someone gets it to work they could rerecord the recording or make it a new file type or something.
http://servefir.ruv.is/vesturfarar/e/SamGuttorm.html
Until the recording works I can make attempts at answers.
1) I don't know, I was reading it as ég but I could be wrong
2/3) I read it out loud to myself and I kinda had it at a middle ground, Icelandic words sounded slightly more English and English words slightly more Icelandic. The loan words I was pronouncing like the English ones but with a more Icelandic accent sound. Again, I can really just guess at what was intended until we can get the recording to work.
4) This one depends on the name the person was given (esp because it may not be an Icelandic name). I think it could go either way, another thing that the recording will help with.
Post by: ruth on June 09, 2015, 09:08:04 PM
Post by: viola on June 09, 2015, 09:29:45 PM
Lojer, læfstæl, fokking, stúbid. I guess loanwords in Icelandic are rare enough that it's kind of a beautiful sight when you see them in the wild.
Personally I like the way læfstæl is spelt. We should spell it like that all the time :) (I am horrible at spelling things)
It's interesting though because if you translated to English it you would lose the way the English sticks out and the mood of the passage would be changed. Also here they are mocking this guy from earlier in the chapter, and you would lose some of that if you translated it directly.
Also Ruth, were you by any chance able to get the recording of the poem to work on your computer?
Post by: ruth on June 09, 2015, 11:02:38 PM
Personally I like the way læfstæl is spelt. We should spell it like that all the time :) (I am horrible at spelling things)
It's interesting though because if you translated to English it you would lose the way the English sticks out and the mood of the passage would be changed. Also here they are mocking this guy from earlier in the chapter, and you would lose some of that if you translated it directly.
Also Ruth, were you by any chance able to get the recording of the poem to work on your computer?
I think my favourite phonetic translation is still Norwegian kløtsj for "clutch," but læfstæl is pretty competitive. I love it.
I totally get that though, there's something about using untranslated words in context that makes them untranslatable. Maybe the English translation should replace them with Icelandic words? :P
Anyway, unfortunately, I couldn't get the recording to work either. It seems that something about the file is messed up, since if you try to download it it's only 119 bytes. Which is...less than this message in plaintext, let alone a full recording of the poem.
Post by: viola on June 09, 2015, 11:36:07 PM
I think my favourite phonetic translation is still Norwegian kløtsj for "clutch," but læfstæl is pretty competitive. I love it.
I totally get that though, there's something about using untranslated words in context that makes them untranslatable. Maybe the English translation should replace them with Icelandic words? :P
Anyway, unfortunately, I couldn't get the recording to work either. It seems that something about the file is messed up, since if you try to download it it's only 119 bytes. Which is...less than this message in plaintext, let alone a full recording of the poem.
I am glad it's not just my computer, but sad that it's not working.
Post by: ruth on June 10, 2015, 12:14:23 AM
I am glad it's not just my computer, but sad that it's not working.Ef Laufey gerir það ekki, mun ég gera það kannski.
Eeeeeeeee! Ég vil heyra, ég vil heyra!
Post by: viola on June 10, 2015, 11:31:21 PM
:iceland:
Segið mér ef það sé eitthvað sem ég get gert betur.
:uk:
Spoiler: show
Post by: ruth on June 11, 2015, 12:50:48 AM
Ég gerði hlut: [deleted]
:iceland:
Segið mér ef það sé eitthvað sem ég get gert betur.
:uk:Spoiler: show
Þetta er frábært! Takk fyrir, Viola!
Fáar spurningar bara:
Er nétið virkilega með é og ekki e? Ég hef aldrei séð orðið stafað með é.
Þágufallsformið af "hann" er "honum", ekki "hönum," ekki satt?
Feeling pretty good about this list, though. I knew/could remember all but maybe 20 of them without having to peek!
Post by: viola on June 11, 2015, 01:14:40 AM
Þetta er frábært! Takk fyrir, Viola!
Fáar spurningar bara:
Er nétið virkilega með é og ekki e? Ég hef aldrei séð orðið stafað með é.
Þágufallsformið af "hann" er "honum", ekki "hönum," ekki satt?
Feeling pretty good about this list, though. I knew/could remember all but maybe 20 of them without having to peek!
Yes I made spelling errors. I will go fix those now. I already found a different one earlier :P
(Someone please make Icelandic spell check for PCs)
Post by: Laufey on June 11, 2015, 04:43:48 AM
Spoiler: show
Post by: Laufey on June 11, 2015, 06:18:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DhnmHodh.jpg)
(Oooooops I had the window open the whole time. Free poetry reading for anyone passing by the house I suppose.)
(I ended up pronouncing every eg as ég.)
(Also: Viola, your move! ;D)
Post by: viola on June 11, 2015, 12:09:37 PM
Vá vel gert Viola, þú ert svo dugleg! Það virtist vera allt í góðu lagi, bara smá ritvillur og nokkuð annað sem ég vilji bæta við:Spoiler: show
I just answered in the quote because lazy.
Edit: Just listened to the poem recording, I think you did a great job! :D
As for whether or not I will join you, we shall see.
(This is like some crazy game of friendly icelandic language chess... :P)
Post by: Ana Nymus on June 11, 2015, 04:46:17 PM
Post by: viola on June 13, 2015, 03:08:48 PM
Other news: I think I am going to record the poem too. Just... not quite right now. Maybe later this
Post by: viola on June 17, 2015, 07:29:28 PM
I'll start with some information about important Icelandic symbols:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Flag_of_Iceland.svg/209px-Flag_of_Iceland.svg.png)
The red on the flag is for lava, the blue for mountains, and the white for ice.
The fjallkona (mountain lady) is the female personification of Iceland:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Arnason-front.jpg/220px-Arnason-front.jpg)
She was inspired by a poem written by Eggert Ólafsson and her appearance represents different aspects of the country as follows:
White dress - purity and integrity, glacial skirts
Lace veil - snowcapped mountains
Green cape - the Icelandic counryside
Gold crown - consisting of a star above a rising sun, contains the Icelandic Coat of Arms
Every year there is a tradition where a young woman is chosen to represent the fjallkona and recites poetry. This tradition is not only practised in Iceland, but also by Western Icelanders on Islendingadagurinn in New Iceland (Gimli, Manitoba).
Some traditional Icelandic music:
Spoiler: show
Some modern Icelandic music (you know, for partying and stuff :) ):
Spoiler: show
Also guys this is the cutest music video ever. Post by: Laufey on June 19, 2015, 05:29:07 AM
Don't worry about the pronunciation, for a West-Icelandic poem (especially one that pokes fun at the changes in the language) it works perfectly, and I hear a few occasions where I assumed some pronunciation parts wrong that work better in yours.
The only criticism I can give is that Icelandic occasionally ties certain words together by dropping the last sound of a word and pronouncing it and the next word as one instead of two separate words:
Hann lofði mér rjúpuna' að bera' upp í bæ
Is read as:
Hann lofði mér rjúpunað berupp í bæ
Sometimes the words can also be shortened from the front but the basics are the same (the ' marks where you're supposed to drop something)
Og duglega upp 'ana stoppti,
=
Og duglega uppana stoppti
And my eternal favourite that illustrates when the ' does not mark a sound being thrown away but it goes anyway - the last "i" of the word "drepti" gets unvoiced as well:
„Eg drepti 'ana,“ „sagði' ann, „á lofti.“
=
Ég dreptana, sagðann, 'a lofti
Post by: viola on June 19, 2015, 10:59:29 AM
I LOVE your accent! This was really interesting because I've never heard West-Icelandic spoken before, it sounds so soft! You also seem to use way less of the "p pronounced as f but sometimes also f pronounced as p"-thing and preaspirations, which makes sense because languages are a living things and constantly mold themselves to suit their users' needs (and if there's one thing that doesn't ever mesh well it's English and Icelandic pronunciation at the same time). Likewise over here it's English that gets Icelandicized instead because the language background is Icelandic.
Don't worry about the pronunciation, for a West-Icelandic poem (especially one that pokes fun at the changes in the language) it works perfectly, and I hear a few occasions where I assumed some pronunciation parts wrong that work better in yours.
I'm glad you like it. I'm terribly self conscious about my accent, especially because Icelandic isn't a language that is used to having accents being all in one relatively close place and all, so I always feel like I stick out a bit. I think maybe if I spend more time there I might get it to leave, just like after spending time in the US I can now do a US accent (although the Americans I've met seem to think Canadian accents are cute? Judging from the self insert topic though I think they might think all nonAmerican accents are cute?)
I think the hardest part about the switching back and forth was the Rs. The Rs are so different and come from such different places in one's mouth. I usually just use one or the other, but I tried to keep them apart in the recording. I think there may be a few times where I didn't though.
And thank you for the tips on smooshing words together :)
If anyone has any ideas for a next project or thing that we should explore please share! I am going to try and find something but I am also going to be off continent until August, so I may not be posting as much.
Post by: Laufey on July 16, 2015, 01:05:45 PM
Post by: Fimbulvarg on July 16, 2015, 03:04:47 PM
I recently came across this beautiful thing which I figured might be interesting: some of the most popular board games (https://www.facebook.com/loaboratorium/photos/a.617624044991621.1073741827.163820550371975/899529290134427/?type=1&theater) played in Iceland (and the unfortunate effects of playing them).
What does "Fimbulfambleiðindi" mean?
Post by: Laufey on July 16, 2015, 03:13:16 PM
What does "Fimbulfambleiðindi" mean?
"Nonsense-annoyance", the game is called Nonsense. You draw a card that has an ancient/obscure word in Icelandic and read it for the others, who write down what they think the word means. The person with the card then reads all guesses aloud including the correct answer, and the players then guess which one is right. Only fun as long as you don't have a player with excellent 100% correct knowledge of the language though...
Post by: viola on July 16, 2015, 03:16:37 PM
What does "Fimbulfambleiðindi" mean?
http://www.visindavefur.is/svar.php?id=58102
According to this fimbulfamb originally meant a fool or an idiot.
Post by: ruth on July 16, 2015, 03:43:12 PM
What does "Fimbulfambleiðindi" mean?
They're actually two different words—"Fimbulfamb" is the name of the game, which I think means "gibberish" or something along those lines, and "leiðindi" means "boredom."
Post by: Laufey on July 16, 2015, 04:03:51 PM
http://www.visindavefur.is/svar.php?id=58102
According to this fimbulfamb originally meant a fool or an idiot.
The word you're thinking of is "fimbulfambur" = massive idiot. Fimbulfamb, at least today, means "great nonsense/gibberish".
They're actually two different words—"Fimbulfamb" is the name of the game, which I think means "gibberish" or something along those lines, and "leiðindi" means "boredom."
Yup, Fimbulfamb indeed is the name of the game, but I think it actually works as a compound word: Fimbulfamb + leiðindi - Fimbulfambleiðindi. Or maybe it should be Fimbulfambsleiðindi? :-\
Btw in this occasion leiðindi doesn't mean boredom, it means annoyance. :)
Post by: ruth on July 16, 2015, 04:39:54 PM
The word you're thinking of is "fimbulfambur" = massive idiot. Fimbulfamb, at least today, means "great nonsense/gibberish".
Yup, Fimbulfamb indeed is the name of the game, but I think it actually works as a compound word: Fimbulfamb + leiðindi - Fimbulfambleiðindi. Or maybe it should be Fimbulfambsleiðindi? :-\
Btw in this occasion leiðindi doesn't mean boredom, it means annoyance. :)
Whoops! Thanks for that. That's kind of a great pair of meanings, though—I can totally see how boredom could get aggravating. :D
Incidentally, BÍN (http://bin.arnastofnun.is/leit/?q=fimbulfamb) suggests that "Fimbulfambs" would be the genitive case. Though, wouldn't that overlap with fambur/famb/fambi/fambs? That might get a little confusing...
Post by: viola on July 16, 2015, 04:48:25 PM
Whoops! Thanks for that. That's kind of a great pair of meanings, though—I can totally see how boredom could get aggravating. :D
Incidentally, BÍN (http://bin.arnastofnun.is/leit/?q=fimbulfamb) suggests that "Fimbulfambs" would be the genitive case. Though, wouldn't that overlap with fambur/famb/fambi/fambs? That might get a little confusing...
I think it comes from the same place, the site I looked at talks about the origin of the word, but since then its meaning has changed slightly as has the word.
Post by: daiseerose on July 31, 2015, 10:55:43 AM
Post by: viola on July 31, 2015, 11:04:19 AM
In the Icelandic alphabet, what's the difference between the accented letters and the un accented one? Are they pronounced differently?
Yes
The A is like the A in apple and the Á is like saying "ow"
The E sounds like the E in egg and the É sounds like the YE in YES
The I is pronounced short like the I in pick while the Í is pronounced like the EE in green
The O is pronounced like the O in hot while the Ó is pronounced like saying "oh"
The U is pronounced like kinda like the French U (sorry I don't know a good english word for this) and the Ú is pronounced like the OO in moon
Y is pronounced just like I and Ý is pronounced just like Í
Post by: daiseerose on July 31, 2015, 11:08:00 AM
YesAhhhh thanks for clearing that up! C:
The A is like the A in apple and the Á is like saying "ow"
The E sounds like the E in egg and the É sounds like the YE in YES
The I is pronounced short like the I in pick while the Í is pronounced like the EE in green
The O is pronounced like the O in hot while the Ó is pronounced like saying "oh"
The U is pronounced like kinda like the French U (sorry I don't know a good english word for this) and the Ú is pronounced like the OO in moon
Y is pronounced just like I and Ý is pronounced just like Í
Wait, how is Æ pronounced?
Post by: viola on July 31, 2015, 11:15:56 AM
Ahhhh thanks for clearing that up! C:
Wait, how is Æ pronounced?
Æ sounds like saying "eye"
Post by: daiseerose on July 31, 2015, 11:17:22 AM
Æ sounds like saying "eye"Ahh ok! Thanks! Sorry for asking so many questions!
Post by: viola on July 31, 2015, 11:19:08 AM
Ahh ok! Thanks! Sorry for asking so many questions!
No it's fine! I am enjoying answering them! It's good for people to be curious about Icelandic and other languages :)
Post by: Ana Nymus on July 31, 2015, 11:31:31 AM
Post by: daiseerose on July 31, 2015, 11:49:09 AM
I just like ð's and þ's. ;D And I þink ðey're really fun to use in English, too :PHow are those pronounced??
Post by: viola on July 31, 2015, 11:52:35 AM
How are those pronounced??
Þ is like the TH in three
Ð is like the TH in father
Post by: JoB on July 31, 2015, 04:00:30 PM
The A is like the A in apple and the Á is like saying "ow"
The E sounds like the E in egg and the É sounds like the YE in YES
The I is pronounced short like the I in pick while the Í is pronounced like the EE in green
The O is pronounced like the O in hot while the Ó is pronounced like saying "oh"
The U is pronounced like kinda like the French U (sorry I don't know a good english word for this) and the Ú is pronounced like the OO in moon
Y is pronounced just like I and Ý is pronounced just like Í
Æ sounds like saying "eye"
Þ is like the TH in threeSnarfed (http://sssscomic.wikia.com/wiki/Nordic_Alphabets#Icelandic), thanks. ;) Would you happen to have a last guideline for the missing "Ö", too ... ?
Ð is like the TH in father
Post by: viola on July 31, 2015, 04:49:51 PM
Snarfed (http://sssscomic.wikia.com/wiki/Nordic_Alphabets#Icelandic), thanks. ;) Would you happen to have a last guideline for the missing "Ö", too ... ?
The Ö is another hard one to describe in terms of English. I've heard someone describe it as the U in murder but I'm not sure this fits. It sounds like the German Ö. How would you explain that in English?
Also the German Ü is a good fit for comparison to the Icelandic U. Better than the French U. Maybe change it to the German Ü for comparison, because according to IPA, that's more accurate.
Post by: JoB on July 31, 2015, 05:17:40 PM
The Ö is another hard one to describe in terms of English. I've heard someone describe it as the U in murder but I'm not sure this fits. It sounds like the German Ö. How would you explain that in English?Not at all, if I can help it. :P And possibly "like the E in 'nerd'" otherwise - most of the difference in pronunciating "nerd" and "Nörd(linger Ries)" actually comes from the R IMHO.
Also the German Ü is a good fit for comparison to the Icelandic U. Better than the French U. Maybe change it to the German Ü for comparison, because according to IPA, that's more accurate.Well, that's embarassing, considering that just today in the French thread, I told someone to pronounce fr-U like de-Ü ... :-[
... but thanks, I'll add/change as suggested.
Post by: viola on July 31, 2015, 05:24:31 PM
Well, that's embarassing, considering that just today in the French thread, I told someone to pronounce fr-U like de-Ü ... :-[
... but thanks, I'll add/change as suggested.
Æææ sorry. If it's any consolation they're still pretty close sounding (according to my limited knowledge of german)
And your use of nerd seems close enough. I'm gonna make a recording of the alphabet later, so maybe that will clear up a few things.
Post by: JoB on July 31, 2015, 05:33:08 PM
Æææ sorry. If it's any consolation they're still pretty close sounding (according to my limited knowledge of german)I would recommend LEO (http://dict.leo.org/frde/) again if it weren't for the fact that I just tried "müßig" (idle) and found that I'm totally not OK with their pronunciation soundbite for that (the Lady makes the "Ü" sound way too short, if that came up in conversation, I'ld probably misunderstand it as "flüssig" (liquid)) ...
Post by: ruth on July 31, 2015, 05:37:04 PM
Not at all, if I can help it. :P And possibly "like the E in 'nerd'" otherwise - most of the difference in pronunciating "nerd" and "Nörd(linger Ries)" actually comes from the R IMHO.
Well, that's embarassing, considering that just today in the French thread, I told someone to pronounce fr-U like de-Ü ... :-[
... but thanks, I'll add/change as suggested.
The trouble is more that ü covers more than one sound; to be fair, they're a closely related long-short pair, but the sounds are actually a little different. Consider the difference between müssen and über. The former, with its short ü sound [ʏ], is the sound of the short Icelandic u. But the long ü sound [yː] is most similar to the French u-sound.
Post by: viola on August 09, 2015, 05:07:46 PM
A five step guide to rhythm (http://blogs.transparent.com/icelandic/2013/02/06/a-5-step-guide-to-rhythm/) (introduces the length of syllables and the rules that make vowels long or short).
Pre-aspiration (http://blogs.transparent.com/icelandic/2013/04/23/getting-understood-in-iceland-pre-aspiration/) (another one for voice patterns).
Drop it like it’s Ð, G, H, Þ or a vowel (http://blogs.transparent.com/icelandic/2012/09/30/drop-it-like-its-d-g-h-th-or-a-vowel/) (unvoicing and dropping off letters).
Post by: Laufey on August 26, 2015, 06:27:56 AM
This thing has been making rounds lately on both the FB and Tumblr, and although the picture doesn't lie as such, it's not a traditional Icelandic lullaby. It's from the book Salka Valka by Laxness... but to be fair he was a great satirist and lyrics like the above would actually fit perfectly in with typical Icelandic lullabies (it probably has even been made into one). Sometimes I think Icelanders of old just neverminded the "getting the kids to sleep"-part and decided that silence in the house was the main goal and fastest achieved by making sure the little ones were holding their breath out of fear.
Bíum bíum bambaló (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TRBjLO9QMQ&feature=youtu.be&t=18s) (made rather famous by Sigur Rós) is a good example:
Bíum bíum bambaló, bambaló og dillidillidó
Vini mínum vagga ég í ró
En úti biður andlit á glugga.
Bíum bíum bambaló, bambaló and dillidillidó
I lull my friend to sleep
But outside waits a face at the window.
...yeaaah I wouldn't feel very sleepy after that. There's of course many explanations to what the face is - some people say it's the moon, some say it's the father of the child or a friend of the servant lulling the children to sleep, but going by Icelandic fairytales the things that usually look through your window are trolls looking for a meal. When asked about the creepiest Icelandic lullaby Bíum bíum bambaló tends to be mentioned among the first ones.
Heiðlóarkvæði (= The Golden Plover Poem) is not exactly a lullaby but illustrates well how Icelandic poetry (and often the melody of the song as well) fools you into thinking everything's fine, only to punch you in the teeth at the last lines: the golden plover is singing midair and everything's just great and wonderful except the end:
Lóan heim úr lofti flaug,
ljómaði sól um himinbaug,
blómi grær á grundu, -
til að annast unga smá.
- Alla étið hafði þá
hrafn fyrir hálfri stundu.
The plover flew home, sun shining brightly, flowers everywhere -
to tend to the little ones. - They all had been gobbled up by a raven. (a very free form translation btw)
And then there's lullabies that don't sound so bad, but wait until you hear the story behind them:
Móðir mín í kví kví (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtKTkSMO5Us)
Móðir mín í kví, kví, kvíddú ekki því, því
Ég skal ljá þér duluna mína, duluna mína að dansa í.
My mother in the sheep pen, don't fret,
I will lend you my rags, for you to dance in.
A servant woman had secretly given birth to a child, wrapped it in rags and abandoned it outside to die (in the old times being pregnant out of wedlock was a crime worth death penalty, if you visit Þingvellir you can see the place where the sentences were carried out). Later on as she and another servant woman were milking sheep she mentioned the oncoming dances and how she didn't have any suitable clothes to wear, and as a reply a child's voice sang the above song from under the sheep pen...
And of course there's also Sofðu unga ástin mín (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nfmf7PtWiI) (= sleep my little love) that's just a cute lullaby originating in a theatre play, except that the original singer Halla threw her child to Barnafoss waterfall right after singing it. To be fair though that's hopefully just a dramatized version for the play, although it is based on real people - Fjalla-Eyvindur and his wife Halla - who were outlaws. They did have children but according to church records only one of them actually survived to adulthood.
Post by: ruth on September 03, 2015, 03:45:10 PM
Ég er með spurningu um þennan texta: Við gengum tvö (http://www.snerpa.is/allt_hitt/textasafn/Vid_gengum_tvo/). Það er tvær setningar sem ég skil ekki. Fyrstu lagi, hvað þýðir 'við leiddumst hljóð'? Orðabókin segir að bara "við leiddumst" þýðir "we go hand in hand" en ég skil ekki hvernig það gengur með "hljóð". Öðru lagi, skil ég líka ekki "er blærinn kvað". Ég veit hvað þessi orð þýða, en ekki hvað þau þýða sem orðasamband. Get einhver hérna hjálpað mér?
Post by: Laufey on September 03, 2015, 03:51:54 PM
Hæ öll!
Ég er með spurningu um þennan texta: Við gengum tvö (http://www.snerpa.is/allt_hitt/textasafn/Vid_gengum_tvo/). Það er tvær setningar sem ég skil ekki. Fyrst, hvað þýðir 'við leiddumst hljóð'? Orðabókin segir að bara "við leiddumst" þýðir "we go hand in hand" en ég skil ekki hvernig það gengur með "hljóð". Get einhver hérna hjálpað mér?
Það þýðir að ganga hljóðlaus: þau ganga hönd í hönd saman og þagna.
Post by: ruth on September 03, 2015, 03:53:52 PM
Það þýðir að ganga hljóðlaus: þau ganga hönd í hönd saman og þagna.
Þakka þér fyrir, Laufey! Ég lagði saman aðra spurningu, skilurðu það?
Post by: Laufey on September 03, 2015, 03:59:17 PM
Þakka þér fyrir, Laufey! Ég lagði saman aðra spurningu, skilurðu það?
Quote
er blærinn kvað
Jámmm... sko... það er bara "það er vindur" sagt í mjög skáldlegan hátt! :D
Post by: ruth on September 03, 2015, 04:03:05 PM
Jámmm... sko... það er bara "það er vindur" sagt í mjög skáldlegan hátt! :D
Takk aftur! Viola var að reyna að skýra það (við erum hérna til samans!) en ég skildi ekki....En já, núna skil ég.
(Viola: Hææææææææ hvað segir þú gott?)
Post by: Laufey on September 03, 2015, 04:28:01 PM
(Viola: Hææææææææ hvað segir þú gott?)
Pft hæee Viola, bara allt fínt er að borða kvöldmat og teikna mynd af Sigrúnu. ;D
Post by: viola on September 07, 2015, 01:18:20 AM
THEY ALSO HAVE WESTERN ICELANDIC POETRY AND SHORT STOIRES *much squeeing ensues*
ALSO ALSO THIS BOOK COMPARING ICELANDIC AND FAROESE PHONOLOGY
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH *happy dance*
Be prepared for random language spams in the future!
Post by: JoB on September 07, 2015, 01:39:42 PM
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH *happy dance*<mikkel> [Locks book underneath a glass cover to shield it from the "tearing up" part] [Schedules turning the page over fortnightly] </mikkel>actually almost tearing up now so excited wow
Post by: ruth on September 13, 2015, 03:56:26 PM
Guys, guys, guys! GUYS. THEY HAVE A BOOK ON WESTERN ICELANDIC AT MY UNI LIBRARY
THEY ALSO HAVE WESTERN ICELANDIC POETRY AND SHORT STOIRES *much squeeing ensues*
ALSO ALSO THIS BOOK COMPARING ICELANDIC AND FAROESE PHONOLOGY
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH *happy dance*
Be prepared for random language spams in the future!actually almost tearing up now so excited wow
Any idea what the deal is with tresvoltis?
(I always love going to a shopping shop, though.)
(https://i.gyazo.com/a4aba79e346b6dfd14a66014a0ada3ac.png)
Post by: Laufey on November 22, 2015, 02:03:55 PM
I wanted to recommend something little for Icelandic learners - Skálmöld, especially their lyrics; this band uses the traditional meter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADmur) which is no small feat. The song above is from their album Með Vættum and the video includes some images of Icelandic mythology. The album tells of the life of one person, Þórunn, who travels around the country and defends it against attacks from the sea, receiving help from the landvættir, Iceland's guardian spirits.
Other favourites by this band:
Narfi from Börn Loka.
Kvaðning from Baldur.
Post by: Fauna on July 08, 2018, 07:54:35 AM
I can't figure out what þolli means. Other translations of the verse tend to translate it as "that stands under the tree" so þolli would be 'tree', but dictionaries have gotten me 'resistance', 'stuck/clinging' and 'toll' as possible translations. :V
The full verse:
Þaðan koma meyjar
margs vitandi
þrjár, ór þeim sal
er und þolli stendr;
Urð hétu eina,
aðra Verðandi,
skáru á skíði,
Skuld ina þriðju;
þær lög lögðu,
þær líf kuru
alda börnum,
örlög seggja.
Post by: Hrollo on July 08, 2018, 09:38:22 AM
http://skaldic.abdn.ac.uk/m.php?p=lemma&i=83879
Post by: Róisín on July 08, 2018, 09:54:14 AM
Post by: Fauna on July 10, 2018, 11:47:25 AM
Not Icelandic! As I understand, a thole or tholepin is a sort of a spike or long nail-like thing, similar to a trenail, specifically used in the building of wooden ships. Possibly the reference to wood is to Ask and Embla, the trees who were turned into the first humans to replace the humans of the old pre-apocalyptic world? Or could it be a reference to Mimir's Well, which stands among the roots of Yggdrasil, the World Tree? Fascinating poem!
Ask and Embla were not trees in the Voluspá version of the creation myth, that's another saga. Their bodies were created by the dwarves (in turn created by the aesir) and then given soul by the gods, so it's likely not a reference to trees in that way.
Considering the context of the 20'th verse (especially verse 19 and both these verses coming right after the creation of Ask and Embla) I'm leaning towards verse 19 and 20 being a kenning about procreation where the well of urd = the womb and Yggdrasil = male sexual organ. The word 'thole' meaning a pole would certainly fit that.
Thanks!
Post by: Róisín on July 10, 2018, 11:53:56 AM
Post by: Fauna on July 10, 2018, 02:40:21 PM
Dunno, that's possible. The 'lingam and yoni', 'cup and sword' style of symbolism of procreation is widespread through many cultures.
I don't know anything about those, but there's some stuff backing it up here.
Verse 19 and 20, my translation:
Ash/Ask I know standing*
Named Slippery One**
Tall and covered with white clay***
From there comes the dew
That falls in valleys
Evergreen
Over the source of fate.
(*The word for 'standing' is standa. Stånda is the word used in modern Swedish for the erection of a penis. Could be either or, but there are other words for standing that could've been used but weren't.
** Yggdrasil = ON for Odins horse. This tends to be translated as 'gallows' because Odin hung on the tree, but it could also be Sleipnir, which means 'slippery one'.
*** The word used is 'auri', which means something like wet/damp clay, sand or soil.
As for the white dew that falls in valleys I'll leave to your imagination, dear reader.)
From there comes three maidens
Much knowing
Three from the hall under the pole
Fate is the first,
The other is Being
Cutting in boards
Debt/future is the third.
They laid laws,
They selected life,
All children
were given their fates.
It's a riddle so I could be wrong and the answer might be something entirely difference in the context of that culture, but it wouldn't be that far of a stretch. Especially considering these two poems came right after the poems describing the creation of Ask and Embla by the dwarves, who seem to represent the different aspects/limitations of humanity if this translation is to be believed: http://freya.theladyofthelabyrinth.com/?page_id=21
If so, this would simply be the continuation of humanity. In the next verse, there are new names of what I presume are humans around.)
Either way, I've got my help so it's a bit of a case closed. I'd love to keep discussing old norse poetry but it should probably go in the language boards.
Post by: FireNope on February 16, 2024, 04:42:17 AM
Minna called Icelandic mages Seiðkarl and Seiðkona. There was also the word Seiður thrown in the mix, which I thought was a neutral-plural when speaking about several mages of indefinite or mixed gender.
Seems like it's not the case.
So : I'd like to know what is the difference between the tree above ( Is Seiður a neutral singular ?) and what are their plural ?
(from the first post in this thread there are two groups of words finishing in -ur, and they have different plural : -ir or -ar.)
Same with Galdrastafur ?